Who Killed Jesus Christ?! | STREET PREACHIN' w/ Professor Penn | EP220 - Real America’s Voice

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Propa someome hook to buy by these apric countries that
brings so much in race and religion, in language and.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
Put it is a big idea a.

Speaker 1 (00:13):
New world order. Well, I know they're lying. They tricked
me once, but they're not going to trick me twice.
The time is now Welcome back to the Professor Penn Podcast.

(00:35):
This is David Pen, your host, Glad to be with
you once again. On this Thursday night, July tenth, seven
thirty pm Central Standard Time. We have a guest in
studio this morning. This is part of our ongoing exploration
of what's going on here in Minnesota, in the Minnesota

(00:56):
Republican Party and in the Republican Party nationally. Actually, we
could even say in the Democrat Party. What I'm working
on with you and what I'm going to be very
definitive about it. I'm trying to understand and explore how
faith and religious tradition is part of our politics today

(01:17):
and how that faith interfaces with other subcultures, for example,
the military subculture, which is so important in our political life.
And to that end, I've invited into the studio today
a very interesting character, someone that I know not well,
but someone that I've interacted with over several years. I'm

(01:37):
a gentleman named George Backlove. Good morning, George, Good morning, David.
Thank you for coming in. I'm excited about talking with you.
George has a very interesting history. George was born in
a communist country, the country of Bulgaria. And for those
of you that don't know it, Bulgarians, Well, Bulgaria at

(01:59):
one time was an empire. So Bulgarians actually carried the
same kind of confidence and feeling of manifest destinies could
we call it or empire supremacy that we do here
in the United States, one of the oldest European empires,
that's correct. And George was born when that great country

(02:21):
was part of the Soviet Union's sphere of influence, behind
the so called Iron Curtain. So George grew up in
a godless Marxist culture. And when he was a young man, he,
for reasons he's going to explain to me here to
explain to all of us, discovered Christ in the Gospel

(02:45):
and it changed his life. And he became a street
preacher and tried to work with his fellow Bulgarian citizens
to bring the Gospel to them also. And George is
going to tell us how he got to the United State.
It's anyhow, why don't George, rather than me make it up?
Why don't you tell us tell me that story. How

(03:07):
did you in that very godless Marxist environment discover Christ,
discover the Gospel and what happened in your life and
where to take you? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (03:18):
Thanks, David. Well, yeah, I'm now proud American citizen. And
as you know, part of becoming a citizen is to
make an allegiance, to vow allegiance to the United States
the Constitution. This is a big deal to me. I
don't take this lightly at all. So having that background

(03:39):
and at the same time, uh, embracing America and what
it stands for. And now my children have been born here,
I have a grandchild, you know. So so it's like
you're you're you're you're now one with you know, the people.
As you know, an Old Testament there was like this
story of Naomi and basically King David's grandmother, who is

(04:06):
a gentile, and she said, well, your people are my people.
Your God is my God, Your people are my people.
And that that becoming one with someone you're not one
with before is very important. That's been my process here,
So I do see the world differently, both from my
perspective as growing up under communism, as well as from
a perspective of understanding American's unique place and rule in

(04:30):
the world, and it being very personal to me too
because it's not my country as well and my people,
and you know what, I defend and appreciate and apologize
for in different contexts. You know, Europe, as you now
is a very different and distinct view of the world,
and oftentimes I run into interesting conversations with my European friends,

(04:54):
right and I can see how they see American, you know,
outside of the fishbowl, so to say, in a very
differ way, and vice versa. Here in the United States,
I can see how a lot of my friends really
still don't understand Europe and don't understand Communism for that matter,
like the Communist story has not been told, I don't
think adequately. Still in schools and colleges, I interact with

(05:18):
a lot of people, and they still like when I
mentioned the fact that communism has murdered. Communist regimes have
murdered over one hundred million people, many people are shocked.
They don't really understand how how is that even possible.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
Is that true? And that's a conservative number, mind you.
So the slaughter one hundred million people in one hundred
year span is quite an evil achievement, right, And so
has that story been told? I'm not so sure.

Speaker 2 (05:47):
And maybe I can help some of the listeners kind
of see see it also from a human perspective, of
individual perspective.

Speaker 1 (05:54):
I have a question because let me just so you know,
I don't know that you know this about me. I
was born here, so I was born into the peace
and prosperity of the United States. But my family escaped.
My maternal side came from the Baltics, okay, and my

(06:17):
father just came back from that part of the world.
By the way, my father's family came from the Ukraine, okay.
And so I'm very to talk about it. Well, I mean,
I'm very familiar with what happened in the Ukraine after
the Bolsheviks got control of Russia. There was a slaughter,
an unparalleled slaughter in the Ukraine.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
By the way, just started interrupting, did you ever hear
the story of Father Dubois, the Catholic priest.

Speaker 1 (06:41):
I do not. I'm not going with it. This is
a big one. Okay.

Speaker 2 (06:44):
And Father Dubois was a French Catholic priest who started
making trips to the Ukraine, maybe I don't know, fifteen
years ago or so, and he started going around Ukraine
and started talking to villagers about you know, hey, did
you hear a story about all these people being rounded

(07:05):
up and digging up their graves? And nobody wanted to
talk to him initially, right, But then he could persist
to develop friendships and relationships, and then he began to
discover these mass graves fifteen years ago. Now, what began
as a Father Dubois, if I hope I'm not slaughtering
his name in French, right, But what began is a

(07:26):
just one man, you know, expedition. Basically, I believe they've
revised now the numbers of victims. And it went on,
you know, for for a long time, and it became
a big operation because they discovered that nine hundred thousand
people have been identified through these through Father Duboiss initiative,
just in the last fifteen years. Mass graves. That's just

(07:48):
solidly mass graves, only mass Jews, Jews from the World
War two period. World War two, yeah, and I mean yeah,
it's It's just mind blowing. How you know, you have
all these official statf and numbers and all that, but
then you have people keeping quiet because of fear of
you know, retaliation or whatever, and that's just one story

(08:09):
or not.

Speaker 1 (08:10):
Well, you know, I grew up with people that came
from there. Yeah, escaping from It's real. And they have
tattoos on their arms. Yes, So when I listen, this
is like an amazing thing for you to say, because
there's a lot of Holocaust provisionist history. And you know,
if you're saying that, and I mean, we're going to
take your word for it, but you're saying that this

(08:31):
effort has found nine hundred thousand. Now who could.

Speaker 2 (08:36):
You can check me up? I could be wrong, so
don't quote on. Like honestly, this is this is so
mind blowing. A lot of the numbers, you know, like
the what do you call it, the are Sol and
the the bar sol And Archive in Germany, which contains
all the records, and sometimes people say like what are
the records? They're there a lot of them already online.

(08:59):
The bar Solo Archive in Germany, which was selected post
World War Two being the most convenient hub for the
tracking down of individuals. You know, I started as a
tracking down lost individuals and all that, it's become this.
It tracks seventeen million people victims, seventeen million victims documentary,
you know, tracked through that archive.

Speaker 1 (09:20):
Of all ethnicity and revolsions yes correct, Catholics, Jews, yes, homosexuals,
trade union is.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
Victims, victims, victims period, right. And in that number, of course,
it's a huge number of Jews. I forget now how
many were documented into bar solo and archive, but the
biggest is the Jewish number, right, And the documents are there.
So when people tell me I don't know about this,
just go online. Yeah, look look it up our soul

(09:49):
and archive.

Speaker 1 (09:49):
Well for me, for me, my grandfather who came from there,
told me how his family died. I mean, those people
actually have identities for me, and I have to be
frank and I you know, this is a strange thing.
But when your grandfather starts telling you how your family members,

(10:11):
your relatives were brutally murdered by Ukrainians, not by Germans,
Ukrainian Nazis. And so when this allegation came up at
the beginning of this war that there was Ukrainian Nazis
and people said that's not true, and then Putin and
Lav rob are constantly talking about the Nazifying by the Ukraine. Well,

(10:31):
let's just say, first off, there were Nazis in the Ukraine.
And further, after the war, our OSS at the time,
which became the CIA, positioned German military in the Ukraine

(10:52):
to be an anti Soviet force. So there is an infrastructure,
and we talked about it on the podcast. There's actually
a movie called The Sum of All Fears of starring
Ben Affleck that came out, I think in the nineties,
a Tom Clancy script you and the whole subplot of

(11:13):
the movie was that the Ukrainian Nazis were seeking to
create a war between the United States and Russia.

Speaker 2 (11:19):
By the way, another colorful story, very interesting, very significant
that you know your listeners might not be familiar with,
and I find this all the time is the Bulgarian
Juice and what happened? Are you familiar with the story
of the.

Speaker 1 (11:34):
Bulgarian I am go ahead.

Speaker 2 (11:37):
Bulgaria was an ally with Germany, right, our King Boris was,
you know, Bulgaria. After the Ottoman Empire fell apart, they
decided they're going to be a monarchy, right, So we
imported our royalty much like Serbia, and we.

Speaker 1 (11:52):
Just bookmarked this. I want everybody to underside understand the
size and scope of the Ottoman Empire. Yeah, now this
was based in Turkey. This was the Turkish Ottoman Empire.
Bulgaria is how far from Turkey? It's close but not
that close neighbors. Oh, it's pretty big territory.

Speaker 2 (12:11):
Bulgaria, Serbia, Greece, Romania, we're all part of the Ottoman
Empire as a subjugated states, so basically enslaved in a
sense of like you know what you know Islamic. The
Islamic doctrine, the shari a Lah would give you the
option convert or become a Jijia paying tax paying infidel,

(12:33):
right or die. Basically those are like the three basic options.

Speaker 1 (12:36):
Right. So we did have some people who converted, which are.

Speaker 2 (12:39):
Today's Bosnia, like the Bosnia Herzegovina state as a Muslim
These are ethnic Serbs, but they converted to Islam, and
now that's become her Segovina.

Speaker 1 (12:50):
Right, what is the percentage of Bulgarians that are Muslim?

Speaker 2 (12:54):
Now Bulgarians we have we have Turkish ethnic Turkishmuslims and
that's about ten percent, So it's about a million people
is the popular number they're thrown around in a country
of like seven million people, right, so it's quite significant.
We're probably we actually are percentage wise. Bulgaria has the
largest number of Muslims in a European Union.

Speaker 1 (13:14):
Is Bulgaria then involved in some way with Turkey? Is
Turkey active politically in Bulgaria?

Speaker 2 (13:21):
Turkey has always been active. Prior to eighty nine was
it was a you know, anti communist factor, so it
was you know, opposing force in regards to communism. But
that changed later on and they became aligned with the
Turkish population inside of Bulgaria. So there's been a lot
of a lot of politics. So that has always been right.

(13:43):
But our Muslims are very different in a sense that
they are very significant political factor and in the parliament
because I've been always like a balancing force, even though
they're not the biggest number. And so it's yeah, the
Balkan have been described as the power, the powder keg
of Europe right where World Wars began, and and so

(14:06):
there's a lot of ethnic and religious conflicts very close
to each other. You know, all these countries that are
very very connected and culturally, geographically, and so it's a
troublesome region and it's a it's a balancing act to
keep it. Like not NATO right now because of Turkey
and Bulgaria allies and Romania allies. That's probably helped quite

(14:28):
a bit in keeping the balance. But it's complicated. History
back to the Bulgarian Jews.

Speaker 1 (14:34):
And the king we had, the king King the king.

Speaker 2 (14:37):
The king was was told by Hitler, you know, give
up your Jews, right, and there was about fifty thousand
Jews at the time, and King Boris there was intervention
by the Orthodox Church. The patriarch at that time stood
up and said no, and he began to advocate against that.
The rabbi at the time and the patriarch were great friends,

(14:59):
and so they for fosterhedous relationship they had gone before that.

Speaker 1 (15:03):
But so the Orthodox Church.

Speaker 2 (15:06):
And Orthodox Christianity doctrine wise, is really not much different
than you know, it has a lot of elements of
their replacement theology.

Speaker 1 (15:13):
Right.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
However, well, well let's talk yeah, yeah, okay, I can't
run by that one because well, bottom line, just just
to finish it up, So Bulgaria did not give up
its Jews forty five thousand people who were And.

Speaker 1 (15:24):
Then what did the Nazis do with Bulgaria, Well, we
were allies and we lost, you know, Bulgaria being one
of the Axis countries, we lost, and then the Soviet
Army rolled in their tanks and took over.

Speaker 2 (15:38):
It was a basically we're defeated country as part of
World War Two. And we had Bulgaria had for ten years,
we had a national resistance against the Russians. We had
over three hundred they call them like partisans basically, you know,
three hundred armed armed, they were self armed, they were

(15:59):
just gorilla, right, and they were fighting for about ten years.
They fought the Russians because they did not want them.
But we lost because America a bout out, you know,
so we were left on our own and basically our
fate was sealed as a this so called sixteenth Soviet Republic,
So we were part of the Soviet not part of
the Soviet Union as a republic, but we were so

(16:20):
much under that influence and so much Moscow dictated. Everything
was Moscow dictating.

Speaker 1 (16:25):
So that resistance movement ended in the mid fifties, if
I'm getting the yeah time right, yeah, that yeah, absolutely,
this forty four to mid fifties, Chris, before you were born.
I was born sixty nine. So okay, but that's you know,
the as the craw flies.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
It's pretty close, right, Yeah, it's a it's an unspoken
because people are like, well, why do people accept communism.
No one accepted communism. They ruled in their tanks. It's
just that no one would have ever accepted communism if
it wasn't for violence, you know.

Speaker 1 (16:54):
And then lubbly, just I want to just comment and
ask a question. Was Bulgaria previous to the imposition of
Soviet rule, would you say that the culture was defined
by in the most prevalent force in the culture was
the Orthodox Church.

Speaker 2 (17:12):
The Orthodox Church had an incredibly important historic role during
the Ottoman period. We're looking at five hundred years of
persistent attempt by you know, Ottoman Turkish influence, Muslim influence
to assimilate and to convert. So the one thing that

(17:34):
was left, as you mentioned, Bulgaria was like a first Empire,
second empire. So the one thing that was left was
that unified the country and the people was Orthodoxy was Christianity, right,
and so because of its historic role in preserving the
national identity and language and all these components that make
up a people. Right, the Orthodox Church was incredibly influential

(17:56):
and important during that whole period and after that period.

Speaker 1 (18:00):
So but what the Turks could not accomplish, the Soviets
did much more effectively, would you.

Speaker 2 (18:09):
Say they did because they dismantled. They threw in jail Orthodox,
Catholic and Protestant ministers who in any way demonstrated defined
towards communism. They're all thrown in jail. And much like
in China, they created an official version of Catholicism, official
version of Orthodoxy. So the official institutions were gutted out

(18:30):
and replaced with officers KGB officers.

Speaker 1 (18:32):
And were many of these clerics murdered also, ye like
we had we had death camps. We had we had
over seventy.

Speaker 2 (18:41):
Death camps in our own country where people were, you know,
thrown for opposition. And and here's another curious fact. Remember
the Black Book of Communism. I don't know if you've
heard of that.

Speaker 1 (18:51):
I heard of that.

Speaker 2 (18:52):
So after eighty nine, sometime in the mid nineties, a
bunch of European social scientists as historians came together and
they published the so called Black Book of Communism, right,
And they came out with the numbers because people are like, well,
exactly how many people died because of communism, So they
came out with these numbers, and the numbers are hugely underreported.

Speaker 1 (19:17):
Right.

Speaker 2 (19:18):
For example, the for Bulgaria, they say the numbers are
like thirty five thousand people are slaughtered by communists. It
could be ten times more. We just don't know. No
one's really done the actual research. And the problem is
that the Black Book of Communism was written mostly by socialists, scientists,
and historians, so they really I was like, I think
they might have even done it to in an attempt

(19:38):
to distinguish socialism, which is good, from communism, which is bad.
You know how the leftists sometimes position communism and they say, oh, yeah,
communism is probably bad, but socialism is okay, And it's
really not socialism a you know, economic doctrine of oppression
right through taxation. Communism adds a gun to that, and
it's like, you know, we're not going to attack you

(20:00):
sixty seventy eighty percent, we're going to actually put you
in jail if you oppose it.

Speaker 1 (20:04):
So it's well, one of the things that I say
frequently on the podcast, and I get a lot of
pushback on it. Of course, is I put socialists, liberals, communists, progressives.
To me, they're all the same. And I'm going to
say why, I say that we tend to look or
we tend to taught, we're taught that these are systems

(20:29):
of political economy, and they are, but we leave out
the punchline they're godless. So what really distinguishes it for
me is that these systems of political economy are materialists
without a spiritual life. And what we're talking about here
is how the Soviets the Turks tried to convert the

(20:51):
Bulgarians from Orthodox Christianity and failed and failed because they
were going from one faith to another. And I can
see and you know, the Soviets rolled in and they
gutted the churches. Yeah, and they took over the educational system, right,
they were much more effective in spreading.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
Well, here's an interesting element to what you're saying, and
it confirms it. Okay, So I don't know about ten
years ago is at a conference in Bulgaria where like
they had these researchers who got together because they were
still examining you know, how does this happened. How is
it even possible that you would in one generation you
would brainwash people? And it's possible. But here's what they did. Okay,

(21:32):
So they so the hardcore communist ideology, which is as
you know it, it hates the communist Marxist ideology, absolutely
hates the natural family, absolutely hates the nucleus of you
know what, you'd say, the biblical view of you know, man, woman, children,
and that's that's unacceptable to them. It hates national borders, right,

(21:54):
It's an internationalist, globalist mindset and and ideology from the
get go. So they tried really hard to push that
right and they failed. So what they did in the
midis late fifties, early sixties, they switched and they said,
you know, this is not working. What we're going to
do is we're gonna we're going to go after all

(22:14):
these national heroes, for examples, people who are against the
Ottoman Empire. You know national heroes, right, they're fought for liberty.
So we're gonna we're gonna find elements of socialism in
their speeches or life or something. And so they begin
to appropriate every possible nationalistic symbol and to make it

(22:35):
like leftist communists. So what they do is, you know,
they fear nationalism and they feel national identity more than
anything else, and they largely succeeded a lot of people. Today,
you know, they're Bulgaria still divided. We have the pro
Russian kind of camp, right, They're kind of like the
children of the brainwashed, who believe that Russia is the
greatest thing. You know. They don't send their kids to

(22:56):
school there, They send them to the to the West,
but their way around Russian flags, right. And then you
have the pro Western camp, which is also in a
sorry state because what the West used to stand for,
which was Christendom, right and traditional values, now has become
replaced by liberalism. So it's a complex situation.

Speaker 1 (23:14):
Right. Well, you know, as a prelude, because we're going
to bookmark this and come back to it, you said
something that I think we're a little bit dense to
here in Minnesota in the United States, that this is
an internationalist movement that seeks to erase borders and identity
and to reprogram people into a different way of thinking,

(23:37):
which is completely novel and over turns one hundred thousand
years of human evolution. So you know, this is where
we're going to come back to in reference to the
Mega movement, to the Minnesota politics, national politics, and how
these religious and political issues are so potent right now
and could pose a real great threat to the continuation

(24:01):
of re establishing the Republic of the United States. But
I want to hear how it is that you were
born in sixty nine yep, right, and you were born
into this really pretty well developed, now godless environment. He
went to I would probably government school, governments school where
that was pounded into you.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
Yes, yes, Now here's the thing though. So both sides
of my family for farmers.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
Right.

Speaker 2 (24:31):
My great grandfather on my mom's side was actually a
veteran from the Balkan War and he got a pension
and so he bought some land. And on my dad's
side also they were all farmers. And when Communism came,
anyone who had land, it was basically taken from them.
They had to sign it off. My great grandfather, who
was a who impacted me a lot. I remember him vividly.

(24:57):
He would we would go and he would point into
these fields around the city. Every summer we would go
to the village, right, and and great grandfather would point
to these fields and he would I just would never
forget to look in his eyes and he would say,
these are our lands. They were never no somebody else's lands,
because this is our lands, right, And they took him

(25:19):
all right. So so we suffered the theft at gunpoint
from like basically, and they pushed people into the cities,
like my parents were from growing up in these you know,
farmer families, you know, they had to go to the city.
And when they brought people to the city. My parents
were both doctors, right, so I was raising a family

(25:41):
of two doctors, and that politics was never discussed. Communism
was never discussed. It was a basically you don't we
don't know what's going on. We're pretending like life is normal.
Except one time I walked in on my dad listening
to Radio Free Europe, right, and they were freaking out.
They're like, I don't tell any buddy. Us must have
been like twelve years old. So I realized something is

(26:03):
going on, something that no one wants to talk about.
And the overwhelming sense of fear that is like a
blanket that is cast over the entire culture and over
everyday life literally is tangible, it's very real. And the
fact that people would disappear. Everyone knew people were disappearing,
who would tend to voice theirs, you know, criticism of

(26:26):
the of the regime and so, and I'm growing up
as a teenager, I'm like, I'm not going to live
like this. I just made a vow to myself. I'm
going to ask questions. I'm going to keep asking questions.
And I mean, if I die, if they shoot me
or disappear me, that's fine. I want to know the truth.
So I started asking questions. I started, you know, reading
in the library. I found some books by Blessed Biscal

(26:48):
who was a French philosopher, and he wrote about God
in a very like it was a real thing. So
now as a scientist and a philosopher who's writing about
God in a very real way, that was my first
interaction with Christian you know, thinking right. And so this
impacted me deeply, and I went to the Orthodox Church
and I baptized myself. I mean myself. I asked to

(27:10):
be baptized when I was a teenager because I just
had a really you know, deep pursuit of wanting even
know the truth. Why are we here and I'm looking
at the stars and who made this who made ald us?
You know, I have these questions, and they do not
want you asking these questions. The school doesn't want to
ask you these questions. Everybody's just like, you know, we
came from the Apes. Evolutionists pushed really hard in communist countries, right,

(27:34):
and so during all these years, basically to have any
kind of interest, whether it was American rock music or
the Bible, it was equally threatening to the regime.

Speaker 1 (27:45):
Right.

Speaker 2 (27:45):
I had interest in both, right, both American culture. American
culture was a form of dissidency, like you were against
the communist regime if.

Speaker 1 (27:54):
You were blue jeans.

Speaker 2 (27:55):
But yeah, blue jeans, long hair, all of that. So
so that was a big thing. But at a deeper level,
you know, I just had this like internal dissatisfaction with
like seeing my parents go to work every day, trying
to be quiet, trying to survive, trying to take care
of their kids and me and my brother, and so
I was like, I'm not going to live like this.
I just decided they want to disappear me, that's fine,

(28:17):
but I'm going to keep asking questions. And that's what
led me to the faith. Really, I connected with an
underground Pentecostal church at the time underground. Yeah, they were
not legal. So they told me, I want to.

Speaker 1 (28:27):
Say Pentecostal, Yeah, everybody knows what that is.

Speaker 2 (28:31):
Yeah, there's a branch of a branch of Christianity that
believes in the charismatic expression of the Holy Spirit and
all that supernatural healings and things like this. But to me,
what was more important is that they were not official.
And I thought, if they are not official, that means
that they got to you know, if there's a good
this is good because everything official is corrupt and you know,

(28:51):
I can't trust it, and even the Orthodox Church, you know,
I remember my interactions with the priests. I realized how
hollow they were, Like I'm I'm searching for truth, but
they were just totally avoid of substance.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
Right.

Speaker 2 (29:04):
There was no there's no nothing there to to bring
me to the to the faith.

Speaker 1 (29:09):
Right.

Speaker 2 (29:10):
So I started going to this uh, disallowed church or
illegal church, and that's how I came to know the Lord.
And then I began to preach on the street. After
the regime collapsed and there was freedom, you can go
out on the steyear was that for both That was
eighty nine. This was shortly at eighty nine shortly after
church Ascar got shot and around that same period of time,

(29:32):
and uh, basically was chaos after that, you know, the
best way to describe it was just control chaos, you know,
because the structures just disintegrated. And that gave me an
opportunity to go out and start sharing my convictions and
so talking about street preaching. I started preaching all over
the city. I opened up my apartment and mostly young
people started just coming to the Lord asking questions. And

(29:55):
that's how my my church was founded. I found I
became a founder a church. Actually we grew very fast
from zero in nineteen ninety to over thousand people in
like three and a half years. And so it was
just incredible spiritual hunger during that time, and whoever had
the goods and offered it, Like if you were actually

(30:18):
on the street corner preaching. I've had over two hundred
people just stand there and listen for like an hour
and a half and I'm like, okay, we're done. They're
like no, we want more. I mean this was happening
all the time during like a period of like maybe
a couple of years, right, and so I sensed like
this is the time to do it, and so That's
what I did. I was I graduated a clinical lab school,

(30:42):
so I was working a job and I was going
and preaching on the street.

Speaker 1 (30:44):
Book we bookmarked that one spot. I want to just say, yeah, absolutely, Okay,
So politically, here's something politically everybody can think about doing,
because on this podcast, yeah, we're about political activism and
getting people involved in American politics. So I want to
just comment on, and I know you're going to agree
with me. People underestimate who the communists are in our

(31:08):
American culture and what they will do if they get
control of the political levers of power. They will kill
their opponents. Because it's been the same. You know, it
won't happen here. You know, that's been said in a
lot of countries. And every time the communists get control,
they basically ethnically clanse those they cannot convert. It's a

(31:29):
converter guy.

Speaker 2 (31:30):
Violence was advocated by cal Marks at the very inception
of his whole movement in ideology. As you know, he
was a newspaper publisher and they shut him down because
of his radical ideas, and he vowed to execute vengeance
on his enemies. Violence he was, as you know, you know,

(31:50):
Marx was born in a Lutheran family, even though Jewish
by descent.

Speaker 1 (31:53):
His father was a wealthy.

Speaker 2 (31:55):
Lawyer, and in his youth he was writing poems to Christ.
You mean Marx was a Lutheran kid writing poems to Christ,
this historic fact.

Speaker 1 (32:04):
Right.

Speaker 2 (32:04):
Then he goes to university and a couple of years
later he starts to write poems to Lucifer. So you
tell me what converted him. It wasn't Judaism, it wasn't
his Jewish faith. It was the liberal secular ideas that
were pushed at his time. And he becomes a Lucifer
poem writing, you know, anarchist, basically incredibly chaotic person, and

(32:27):
you know his life it's just really interesting to read.
But violence was an integral part of his entire philosophy.
And even Hayak, for example, Fedrick Hayak in his book
The Wrote to Serve Them, he writes about how, you know,
Marx was predicting that communism will take off in Britain,
for example, and then they came to him and they said, well, no,

(32:50):
the workers are happy there, their wages are growing, and
you know, nobody wants to go to war with the capitalists,
you know, And he said, oh, they'll have to, they'll
have to you. Doesn't matter what's happening on the facts,
didn't matter. What matter was this dialectic ideology. Destroy everything
so we can rebuild a utopia. And that basically is
what globalists today. They they spin and they push to

(33:15):
young people, what's what we have now is bad, So
let's destroy it. Let's let's destroy the historical monuments, let's
destroy the past, let's demonize the past. And now we're
gonna rebuild a really nice utopia for you.

Speaker 1 (33:29):
And that's such an interesting challenge.

Speaker 2 (33:31):
And if you oppose it, if you oppose are utopia,
we're gonna kill you.

Speaker 1 (33:34):
Basically, Janner, if you have any comments, you can come
in any time. But let me let me just say
good morning, Tanner. Let me just let me do don't forget.

Speaker 2 (33:41):
Tanner had an important question from We're gonna get to
that that I need to answer.

Speaker 1 (33:45):
We're gonna get to it. The the the diagnosis of
far right populism and far left populism, which is basically Marxism,
it's the same. The system is corrupt and pervert. But
what we seek to do on the right is restore, strengthened,

(34:09):
to rebuild what was the best of the roots of
the culture. We're not anarchists, We're not looking to totally
destroy We're looking to strengthen what we believe is being destroyed,
where the Left is just completely nihilistic in their approach
to this problem. And you know, this is critical for

(34:32):
us to understand as Americans who are born here and
because my family was savaged by the Soviets. Savaged, I
mean if you lived in the Ukraine, yeah, Ukrainian Nazis
killing you, and you had Russians killing yes, So I
mean I had it as a story, you had it
as life. Both of us understand that if these people

(34:53):
get control, yes they're not kidding around, We're kidding around.
And all we have to do here is be politically
involved to stop them. We still have a republican democracy,
a democratic republic where we can be politically active. And
to the point I wanted to make when I said
Bookmark that you're talking about street preaching. So what we

(35:17):
do here in Minnesota is we go to the sports events.
We go groups of Republicans and I don't mean like
the Republican Party, because they don't have the time to
go out where it's dangerous I'm talking about people that
believe in the philosophy republicanism. We go to the Twins Games,

(35:37):
we go to the Vikings Game, we stand there in
testimony that it's okay to be a Republican. And then
it's interesting, there's one Christian guy that's they're not preaching Republicanism.
He's preaching pure Christianity. And you talked about two hundred people,

(35:58):
well coming in from what people walk by him like
he is insane. Yeah, and that is how secularized our
culture has become.

Speaker 2 (36:09):
Well, it would be very similar to today and now
if I went on the streets of the same exact city,
and that would be the same. Like, materialism is also
utopianism to some degree, right, And the utopia is that
if you get all these trinkets and you know, achieved
material success, that that affirms you as a successful individual,

(36:30):
so forth and so on. They don't tell you what
you need to sacrifice, you know, to get there. You know,
maybe get there, maybe not, But they don't tell you
what you need to sacrifice. Sacrifice baby, sacrifice your life,
sacrifice this and that. So every utopia has a price
you pay, right, And in the mind of a globalist
or socialist, it's okay to pay that price. We're gonna

(36:51):
have to kill a million people so we can keep
twenty million in subjection, no problem, because the utopia is there, right,
as long as the utopia as well, right, And they're
ready to kill in the name of that utopia. And
they've been doing it since the seventh century. So every
utopia that transforms itself from a faith or a philosophy
into an actual ideology that seeks power, stay away is dangerous.

(37:16):
Because this is what I say, communist, like I was
telling it before we start recording that after eighty nine,
the different socialist or communist countries had different development and
like the Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland, they accepted laws that

(37:36):
said basically, if you're involved, if you're a member of
the Communist Party, you cannot have political power at all
ever again, so they cut the connection between power because
there's no such thing as former communists, right, I mean
maybe something, yeah, it kind of.

Speaker 1 (37:53):
We actually have laws that banned the Communist Party and communism. Right.

Speaker 2 (37:57):
It's it's like an alcoholic, once alcoholic, always alcoholic.

Speaker 1 (38:00):
And that's what I say.

Speaker 2 (38:01):
These people that impose on utopia at gunpoint, you know,
when they lose power, don't don't let them have it.

Speaker 1 (38:08):
They can never reform.

Speaker 2 (38:10):
Right, normal people like you and I who actually want
to live their lives and don't really care about politics.
We're forced to do this because we're seeing the republic
falling apart.

Speaker 1 (38:20):
Right.

Speaker 2 (38:20):
But normal people have other concerns. They got to take
care of life. They gotta do this and that. But ideologues,
the ideologues and the utopians, man, that's their job. That's
why they they're fixated on. Get the power and impose
and and then that's it. That's the basic conflict of
globalism and what you call called communism. Uh, it's driven
by this, you know, militant lobby that seeks to impose

(38:43):
their own version of utopia, be it transgenderism, is an
utopia or dei or whatever it is. They fixate on that,
and that's how they recruit young minds, unsuspecting minds, you know,
and they get them all or the you hatred, that's
the same thing. It's the same poison. Or drink that poison.
And we'll explaining to you the world to the prism
of Jew hatred. Well, blame it all in the Jews.
Does that make sense now to you? Oh sure, right,

(39:06):
and so this kid who doesn't know much then he's
just like, okay, that makes sense. You know they're responsible
for everything. That's the that's the utopian and well, well
let's let's let's let's dwell on that.

Speaker 1 (39:16):
Because you made the comment that what brought us together
for this podcast was the question mister Tanner asked, yes
on the last podcast, do you remember your question? Yes,
why don't you restate it? Let's let's talk about it. Okay.

Speaker 3 (39:31):
My question was I didn't understand why the Christians wanted
to help the Jews if the Jews historically had killed Christ.

Speaker 2 (39:39):
Right, excellent question, and I that's what brought me to David.
I was like, David Tanner had a question you used
to be answered adequately, please so we can go on
for like a long time, but essentially to keep it
at a high level and kind of frame it correctly.
A question like that reveals really a lack of understanding

(40:01):
of the basic framework of Biblical redemption.

Speaker 1 (40:05):
And what it is.

Speaker 2 (40:06):
It omits completely. So when someone pinpoints that and kind
of puts you makes you obsessed and focus on on
like this one fact what they're missing big time is
the fact that the biblical narrative and worldview post it
to that mankind fell and you know, rebelled against God,

(40:29):
and and so you have this redemptive story. You have
the Covenant with Abraham. From Abraham comes Israel, the nation
of Israel, the people of Israel, and Jesus was one
of them. He was a Jewish man who grew up
as a Toro observant Jew and so Rabbi exactly the
twelve so called Disciples were based on Jewish Talm Dim.

(40:51):
There were students of of of the rabbi, right, But
here's the biggest kicker.

Speaker 1 (40:55):
You got a Hebrew word there. It's exactly. So the the.

Speaker 2 (41:02):
Thing that excuse me that they're missing is that, for example,
and I get the scriptures because it's important to get
this rights one Peter won eighteen to nineteen. The apostle
Peter says, you're ransom from the futile whale ways inherited
from your forefathers, not with perishable things such as gold
or silver, but with the precious blood of Christ, like

(41:23):
that of a lamb, without blemish of spot He was
foreknown before the foundation of the world, but was made
manifest in the last times for the sake of you.
So this whole concept of God, before he even created
the worlds, he saw the potential scenario of the fall
and the potentially price he had to pay and send

(41:44):
his son, and he did it anyway. So in other words,
the for knowledge of Christ, crucifixion or death, sacrificial death
was built into the entire creation act. So therefore it's
very much within God's own will that he he said,
you know what, I'm going to create this world and
they will fall, and in order for me to redeem them,

(42:05):
I'll have to go and pay the price, but I'll
do it right. And so the so called killing of
Christ becomes a mute point because it was preordained, it
was planned, It was actually an act of love. It
was an act of love from God to his creation
that he would even go and pay that price. So,

(42:28):
you know, the killing of Christ, even the term itself
literally brings you into this context of vengeance.

Speaker 1 (42:34):
It's like, what who who are the sides here? Who's killing?
Who's who? Is revenge just obscuring the redemptive act completely? Now,
so you get you understand what work? Do you get that?

Speaker 2 (42:43):
Yeah, that doesn't make a lot of sense, and it's
not the only scripture of this, So sometimes it's very
dangerous to create a doctrine or a teaching on one verse.
So I'm going to point out to something else. Here's
an important one in Isaiah fifty three. The entire chapter
which Jews and Christians have a disagreement on who who
is the servant spoken of in that chapter. But the
entire chapter in Isaiah fifty three speaks of a servant

(43:07):
who will come and suffer to the point of death.
So I'm pointing out to the fact that this is
throughout scripture. In the Book of Revelation, it also speaks
chapter thirteen and verse eight. It says that the lamb
was slain from the foundation of the world. And then
Jesus himself and John seventeen twenty four says, this is
the last prayer. They call it the priestly prayer. He says,

(43:29):
you love me before the foundation of the world. So
you have this whole plan that was divinely conceived and
executed regardless of whose hands were performing the act. We
might as well say the Romans, why don't we have
an anti Roman doctrine? You know we should, And I
say this to my friends sometimes, who because I have

(43:49):
friends who have different views, Right, I say, okay, fair enough,
the Jews killed Christ? Well how about the Romans? How
did you admit them? So if we go by that logic,
we should have, you know, the exterminated all Romans or
Italians because they were equally at least equally responsible. Where's
that doctrine, Where's that ideology? Where's that perspective? Why are
we missing that? Why are we missing the fact that

(44:11):
all the disciples were Jews. Their disciples were Jews, And
for three hundred years you have predominantly Jewish movement that
slowly integrated non Jews, but it was carried by Jews. Right,
spoke in Hebrews. Still to this day, Matthew wrote the
first original story, not the Gospel, but Matthew's writings, which

(44:32):
theologians call the q version. We have historic references that
he wrote it in Hebrew. So they were all Hebrews
speaking Torau observant Jews.

Speaker 1 (44:43):
Right.

Speaker 2 (44:44):
None of this alignce with the who killed Christ? None
of them spoke about that. There's no evidence of that
Christ killing accusation, which developed much later on, you know
Constantine and then had you have Theologians in the four
century who began purposely to kind of take that spin
because they really wanted to separate Jews and Christians. Jews

(45:06):
and Christians were worshiping together on Shabbat, Jews and Christians
were celebrating Passover Easter what we call now. And so
actually there's an imperial edict by Emperor Constantine. It took
an imperial edict to say, you know what, no, we're
going to separate you guys. You can't do all this
stuff together. So for three hundred years you have Jews
and Christians kind of like in a similar camp. The

(45:29):
Christians were called Nazarenes, or they were called different names,
you know, they were called the Dutzerim, right, they were
called the Ebonites or whatever. But there were thirty to
fifty percent of Jews at the time, or Messianics or Notzerim.
And in fact, something interesting during the last Great Revolt

(45:49):
about Koppa Revolt, the Notzerim, the Jesus followers who were
Jewish were so great in number that the rabbis, you know,
Rabbi Akiva at that time, he said, Barkokba is our Messiah.
He's gonna lead us and we're gonna liberalary yourself from Rome, right,
and so the Notzarim, the worshippers of Jesus, no, we

(46:10):
already have a messiah. He's issue, right, So they bowed
out and they did not support the revolt against Rome.
That is where an internal split happened. And they said,
you know what, that's where there's a Jewish prayer that
curses Christians and all that. That's what because they're like, oh,
you betrayed our national cause. Now the tribe, because you're

(46:30):
not going to follow Bakopa as a messiah, You're going
to follow you on your shua. So these are internal
things that were happening through the centuries, But there was
never a Christ killing accusation.

Speaker 1 (46:41):
Right.

Speaker 2 (46:42):
The other thing that it omits the fornoledge and the
plan of God for this to happen is a big one.

Speaker 1 (46:48):
Right.

Speaker 2 (46:49):
How can you develop a Christ's killing doctrine if God
himself said I'm going to sacrifice myself out of love,
and whose hands were on the Messiah at that time?

Speaker 1 (46:59):
You know? Tan really the reality who killed Christ? We
all did.

Speaker 2 (47:03):
Because if he came to die for the sins of
the world, guess what the sin of the world is
what pinned them on that cross. And for someone to
come in and say, oh, by the way, all those
sinners are better than that group, it's just incredibly intellectually
dishonest and not scriptural. The other thing is, Okay, I'm
gonna pause here because it's a lot and well, does
that make sense to Tanner?

Speaker 3 (47:24):
I mean, yeah, I just want to clarify. I'm just
asking the question to ask. I don't believe that we
should pin it on the Jewish people. I guess where
I get really confused is that Christians and Jews have
different ideas for what redemption is, and I feel like
that doesn't align.

Speaker 1 (47:39):
So why would they work together?

Speaker 2 (47:41):
Because A, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is
the God that we worship. You know, I've been to
the Whaling Wall, I've been to his room many times,
and I've been in Muslim countries, and I can tell
you that at a very existential level that that I've
been to Buddhist countries I've been to I've been to
over sixty countries around the world and I've preached in

(48:02):
over forty of them. Right, And you know, if you
have any level of spiritual awareness when you walk into
For example, I was in Mianmar and one of the
biggest it's the biggest Buddhist temple in the world. Right,
and the sense, the overwhelming sense of a demonic power
and cult when you see people on the ground and

(48:24):
doing things, the overwhelming sense of oppression and Muslim Indonesia,
I've been in the heart of Java where I've let
Bible study and at the same time the mom is blasting,
you know, with the call to prayer. When you go
to Israel, you go to the whaling wall, right, there
is no that sense, you know that we are seeking

(48:45):
the same God. The difference, the doctrinal differences that we have,
the different interpretation as to whether Jesus was the Messiah
or he's yet to come, that's to me an internal difference.
It can, in no way, shape or form should be
a reason for us to develop hostile ideology or exclusive
like either or there's no such either or do you

(49:08):
know for example that in the sixteenth century, like we
have this Bible today, right in the sixteenth century, it
was Jewish scholars who were mostly responsible for the new
translations of the Bible after a thousand years of the
Roman Catholic you know, Roman version of the Bible or translation.
The reformers of the sixteenth century formed an alliance with

(49:31):
Jewish rabbis to go back to the original language. It's
called Christian Hebraism. And they were like, let's work together
to go back to a scripture to really understand better
the text, because the foundational text is in Hebrew, right,
And so Jews have contributed tremendously through the centuries, and
the Jewish Christian alliances have contributed tremendously for Christians to

(49:53):
better understand their faith. And we just basically, I can
have a discussion with any Jew about logical differences to
build an entire ideology on top of that, and what's
called the replacement theology that says, no, you're no longer special,
You're no longer nobody where Christians have replaced the Jews.
That is called the replacement theology. And it's basically it's

(50:14):
built on a wrong premise. It's it excludes the writings
of Paul, it excludes a whole lot from the Bible.

Speaker 1 (50:21):
And what groups I mean, can you can you identify
in terms of organizations, what organizations tend to focus on
that replacement.

Speaker 2 (50:31):
Replacement, replacement theology is at on many levels and many denominations,
many churches. They don't speak of it openly. Sometimes you're
probably not going to find it as a page in
their you know, beliefs or creed. But what it's, what
it does is when you go to the seminary level,
you go to you know, popular books, levels, sermons, it's

(50:53):
just being peppered. You know, they peppered this whole entire idea,
and over a period of time people just begin to
adopt the who kill Christ attitude?

Speaker 1 (51:03):
You know. But it comes back to the Roman Empire
separated these communities, and there was also that and there
was that revolt, the Barkokla issue, so that was within
Jewish culture. But there was an edict from Emperor Constantine.
Why why did he do that?

Speaker 2 (51:22):
So Constantine at the time when he was an emperor,
he was a very unstable character, if you know a
little bit about his history. He really needed popular support, right,
and he looked at the Roman Empire and he asked
his advisors, who can support me in this whole entire empire?
And that's really the history of how Christianity became legal
in the Roman Empire. So he said, they said, well,

(51:46):
look at these guys, they're the most organized group. They
show up every week, they go to these meetings, and
so he made allies with the Christians. There's this whole
story about him seeing Across or his mother, but that's
that's not whether that's history or not, that's a whole
different story. But what's true is that he found great
support in the in the at that time underground Christians.

(52:06):
Right to say Rome now, Also, if you read Saint
Augustine The City of God particularly, which is a very
volumeless it's like nine hundred pages and I recommend it
to everyone, but it's pretty serious reading, right, you can
really understand from Saint Augustine's writing the heart of a
Roman who is also a Christian, Like, these people love

(52:27):
Rome the way we love America today.

Speaker 1 (52:28):
I kid you not.

Speaker 2 (52:29):
Like if you read Augustine, you will see that to them,
to be a Roman was a big deal, right, This
was the civilization. These are the guys who built aqueducts, right,
They had families, they had lands, they were they saw
themselves as vampire absolutely absolutely so.

Speaker 1 (52:44):
For them.

Speaker 2 (52:46):
For them now, accepting Christianity for Constantine was a big
deal because he's replacing all these idols and false gods, right,
And so essentially part of the reason Christian theologians at
that time saw the Jews is a problem is because
they're competing competing ideology to what was an empire strengthening.

Speaker 1 (53:09):
Because you had this group of Jewish revolutionaries that were
fighting the empire well, and they.

Speaker 2 (53:13):
Were always a thorn in someone's butt. Right, they were like, no,
will you guys believe all this? But now we got
our own idea. So as far as I'm concerned, I
like that. I like people who are contrarian by nature.
I'm like, really, you don't believe the same as me,
Tell me why, right? But not all people are like that.
People have power, like to consolidate and suppress, you know.
So that's kind of like the story they he came in.

(53:34):
It's like you worship on Sunday, that'd say it you're
a Christian. So it was really an attempt by both
theologians at that time, like Christosomus and the emperor, to
consolidate power and unify. And it was very much a
political creation of political Christianity because he was for three
hundred years. It was very much in homes. There was

(53:55):
no temples, they were gathering in a synagogue on Shabbat
and at homes on Sunday. It was it was very
much a home based Christianity. Constantine created an institution, he replaced,
he started appointing.

Speaker 1 (54:08):
One could say he co opted Christianity. Couldn't absolutely. I
mean that's this is where we get into the whole
spread of Christianity throughout Europe, all the way to the
British Isles, and then the whole characteristic of it changes,
and that, you know, leads us to America. So but
I do want to say, just because I think it's
so interesting, I want to just and when you're watching

(54:30):
tonight on YouTube and you're in the live chat, if
you want to you read the live chat where you
go read the comments afterwards. I can't guarantee this, but
they're going people that disagree with you. But my point is,
what you're saying from a Christian frame is that God,

(54:50):
God's plan, yes, was for this redemption. So why are
we blaming the Jews for playing a role in god plant?
And they have a role in God's plant.

Speaker 2 (55:03):
Even Paul in his Discourse and the Book of Romans
goes out to say, well, even Pharaoh, it was predestined
kind of Pharaoh to be who he is. So there's
almost this whole element of it's a dangerous territory free
will versus predestination.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
I was just going to bring that up. It's a
really touchy one.

Speaker 2 (55:21):
And the rabbis, if you study rabbinical writings, especially from
you know, the first century and prior to Jesus' time,
they were all discussing.

Speaker 1 (55:31):
This whole.

Speaker 2 (55:33):
The divide that we have, the liberal conservative divide, and
also the predestination versus free will. Those discussions there were
there were had between rabbis for exactly, and then Christians
had them later on. But but basically it's very difficult
to I mean, it's very it's very easy to explain

(55:55):
if you have the larger context and you understand the
Bible as a redemptive story, pinpointing, you know, the differences
to the Jews and the Christians, rather seeing that these groups,
the Jewish people, as those to whom the scripture were given.
That's what Paul says. He highlights the fact that without

(56:18):
them we wouldn't have scripture. Without them, we wouldn't have Messiah. Right,
God could have caused Messiah to be born from a
Chinese girl in you know, Beijing, Right, Why didn't he
do that? Because there's a story, there's continuity. He calls Abraham,
a man who was not particularly we don't know much
about his ethnicity, you know, or of the Chaldeans or whatever,

(56:41):
and he crosses.

Speaker 1 (56:42):
Over the river Jordan.

Speaker 2 (56:44):
The word Hebrew comes from the Hebrew word hebe, which
means the crossover. So the crossing over now transforms him
into obedient follower of Yahweh or Yrjovah, depending on where
you believe how the special name is pronounced, right, and
this and this toral observant culture is born, and it

(57:05):
basically the temple and the Tabernacle and the observation of
these doctrines, of these uh precepts by God form a
culture from which the Messiah is born, whether now or
in the future, it's from a culture. Jesus didn't come
from Mars, he didn't drop from from the sky. He
had a background. He spoke Hebrew, he spoke, he observed that,

(57:27):
he studied the Torah, and so so if you remove
basically the Old Testament his history, he becomes a martian
like he could have dropped anywhere on earth. But no
God says, no, there's a history here, because he's a
god of families. God, there's a lineage, lineage, there's continuity,
and and what's the dear, what's important to people today?
I have a grandchild. When I look at my grandson,

(57:49):
you see yourself. You're like, wow, you know, here's my
child had a child, right, And that's God's story as well,
a story of continuity. So to fragmented and take one
piece and here it's one of the worst things you
can do. You have to look at the entire story
and the entire What is.

Speaker 1 (58:07):
This benefit of fragmenting it. Let's go on to the
other sectarianism. Sectarianism who people who focus and become obsessed
with a segment of the story but not the entire
story usually are either intellectually deficient or in my opinion,
or or or have an agenda of some kind to
draw people to put together a movement or whatnot, or

(58:31):
power seeking individuals like you were saying, even a good
person when given power, if there's no checks and balances,
chances are they'll screw up. Of course, the idea is
that the check and balance inside that that's the ultimate
hardest boy. You have to work for it absolutely. That
is that's the process of redemption. Yes, and the anti Semitism,

(58:56):
it is actually terrifying and it really ties into this
whole political environment we find ourselves in which brought us
together to have this conversation, which is, you know, I'm
an officer in the Republican Party. You know, I'm really
involved in this political thing and I've been deposed now

(59:18):
because I'm searching for truth. We've got a lot of
folks in the party that are tote in the line,
and that line is not working. And you know, I
say to people like the leader of the party, Alex Blackish, Hey,
if it was working, I'd be all for it. But
it's a failure here in Minnesota and keep doing the
same thing over and over again. So here's what we're

(59:39):
doing here in Minnesota. We've got a group of Christian
evangelicals which are extraordinarily supportive of Israel to the extent of.

Speaker 2 (59:48):
Can I interrupt you please, I'm sorry because it just
flashed in my mind. So when we talk about Tanner
might find it's interesting because it's one thing to talk
about historic Israel and historically the Jews. It's another thing
when crossover into now and today and say, well, how
does it what does this have to do with Israel today?
You're stealing my thunder pro but I mean Christian Zionism. Right,

(01:00:09):
here's the thing people don't understand. The Christian Zionism originally
originated in the sixteenth century and and you know Europe
back Blackstone was a Zionist.

Speaker 1 (01:00:18):
Right, fifty years before there was Jewish Zionism. There was
Christian Zionism. Fifty years it predated Jewish Zionism.

Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
I mean, the history is amazing because these Christians, like Blackstone,
for example, you can read their writings and they had
no concept of Palestine or none of these issues. They
studied scripture and they'd even look at prophecy. And this
is what I want to say, true Christian Zionism is
not tied to prophecy. I'm anti that like that to
me is I know there's a lot of people to

(01:00:46):
blame them.

Speaker 1 (01:00:46):
Go back, then, we have to go back one frame
to sol the scriptura in the fracturing of the Church,
because there's a lot of the fracturing. The Protestant movement
is part of what you're talking about. I think part
of that is a authority of.

Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
The Bible versus the authority of popes and CARDINALSM yes, yeah, yeah, well, okay, yeah,
that's true. Not all Christian movements except the Bible is
the ultimate authority. It's always like for Catholics. For Catholics
is the Bible and such and such and such. For
the Orthodox Church is the same, the Bible and the

(01:01:22):
Church hierarchy fifty to fifty. Right, Even Judaism looks to
Judaism looks at the at the Tanakh and says, oh,
Tanak is good, but we have the oral law.

Speaker 1 (01:01:32):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:01:33):
So the emergence of the Protestant Christianity, which says, no,
the Bible is the ultimate authority, similar to the care writes.
In the Jewish world, you have the kre Rites, who
are scriptural Jews. They only acknowledge the Dora like they
don't look at they don't look at the writings and
rabbis that secondary. They maybe use them or not, similar

(01:01:55):
to similar to that. In the Christian world, the idea
of the Bible is the defining authority is pretty unique
in that sense.

Speaker 1 (01:02:03):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
The problem is when you attach prophecy and you say, oh,
I support Israel because I believe that based on the
prophecy or my view of end times, then I'll support
Israel because they have to go back to the land. Actually,
the return to the land is part of biblical prophecy,
not because of end times, but just because God says

(01:02:26):
one day I will bring them back to their land.

Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
Period.

Speaker 2 (01:02:28):
It doesn't say I'll bring them back to the land
because of the end times. The prophecies in Old Testament,
specifically gathering. The in gathering is prophesied by the prophet Ezekiel,
by Isaiah. And it's a promise for all Jews all
the time.

Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
And let me just say, and this is critical from
the Jewish perspective, what they call the diaspora, the forcing
out of the Jews from the Holy Land, the people
that raised me, the religious Jews that raised me. Except
that is God's punishment that the Jews were scattered by

(01:03:04):
divine will because of their failure to follow and to
love God with all their heart and all their soul
and all their might. So the im importance of being
into diaspora, the importance of supporting the country you lived in,
the importance of suffering. This fracturing of the community was

(01:03:25):
part of the redemption of the Jewish people. So when
the state of Israel was formed in forty eight, the
religious that raised me didn't want Israel to be formed.
They viewed that as a Marxist political movement that had
nothing to do with Judaism. They viewed it completely differently.
They didn't support it. It was really only after Jerusalem

(01:03:47):
was recaptured in nineteen sixty seven that the religious in
the United States started to go back to Israel. And
I personally, I can't prove this, but I personally think
that they didn't want to leave Jerusalem in the hands
of minists. Well, whatever you think.

Speaker 2 (01:04:03):
At the end of the day, it boils down to
a very much and maybe I'll go maybe I'm going
back to the fact that I was raised in a
communist country. And you have to understand, in communism there's
very much an existential issue. It's a life and death issue.
It's an issue of if I speak up, maybe I'll disappear.

(01:04:24):
Right here, you're speaking up. You're one of ten million
people who speak up. It's a matter of, like, maybe
get rejected by someone who's watching the live stream. So
what big deal they rejected me.

Speaker 1 (01:04:35):
I don't care.

Speaker 2 (01:04:36):
But in the communist society, you may be disappeared. The
entire Bible, all the scriptures were giving in the context
of existential issues. At the time of Jesus, the average
length of life was twenty eight years old. People were
dying like flies from sickness and disease. The issue of
eternity was not an intellectual exercise, right And to the

(01:04:57):
Jews today, if you go to Israel, realize that it's
an existential issue. They don't give a flip about our
disagreements and this and that. They need a home where
they will live, and it's promised in the Bible. Do
you really need more than that that God says I
will when they bring you back, and I will give
you safety in your own land that was given to
Abraham and you lived in it. For By the way,

(01:05:19):
they never really Yes, they were scattered, but Jews always
remained in the land. It's called Edit's Israel, the land
of Israel, and for two thousand years. Yes they were scattered,
they didn't hold out, they didn't have their own state,
but there are always always Jews in the land. On
top of that, when they start coming back to Israel,
they're buying the land. They were buying swamps and turned
them into kibusim, and you know, they turned them into

(01:05:41):
a prosperous When I was in the desert, I remember
years ago we went to a kibbutz in the Negive Desert.
They were exporting tulips for Holland. How do you raise
tulips and export them to Holland?

Speaker 1 (01:05:54):
Right?

Speaker 2 (01:05:55):
Incredible people, just incredibly creative and injuritive ingenua as people.
So so you have existential issue. We have intellectual and
maybe political bickering. They have an existential issue. And you
must understand the frame the discussion here. For someone in America,
a keyboard warrior, they may be having their opinions. For

(01:06:18):
a Jew in Israel, that's a matter of life and
death potentially. So it's not just a simple practice of
intellectual you know, a theological discourse. It's a matter of like, yes,
it's in the Bible, it's the land is promised to
the Jewish people, and we're here by God's providence, and
that's really that's really. You don't need much more than that.

(01:06:40):
If you're against that, if you're chanting from the river
to the sea, what you're really saying is kill all
the Jews.

Speaker 1 (01:06:45):
Basically, the river from the river to the sea.

Speaker 2 (01:06:47):
Literally is a coded, coded appeal to just get rid
of the Jews, because that's what that's what the enemies want,
right and rightly.

Speaker 1 (01:06:56):
But this is an interface, then, that is an interface
between ancient biblical ideas and modern political realities. So of
course I don't support that idea because I'm Jewish. But
if you go back to Blackstone, you're talking about that

(01:07:16):
founding of the Christian Zionist movement in the Empire that
was quickly co opted. It was and it was used
to it's inevitable attack the Ottoman Turks, yes, and so
it became a political and then you had the psychs
Peco agreement, you know downstream after the Turkish Empire fell.

(01:07:37):
The empire didn't fall because of Jewish immigration, but that
didn't help. I mean, you know, it was the you know,
the Turkish Empire fell because it was all the empires,
they fall from within. But the use of Jewish immigration,
and I say use because I don't think it was benign.
I think it was a financed immigration with the intent

(01:08:00):
to change the political structure.

Speaker 2 (01:08:02):
Theodore Hertzel wrote about it fifty years before the state
of it, before the Holocaust. Okay, Theodore Hertzel was was
a journalist who witnessed the Dreyfuss affair in France, and
he watched civilized France. He went, he went as a
journalist to cover the trial of this general who was
accused of treachery a Jew, a Jewish general who was
very who was exonerated from all the all the accusations

(01:08:25):
by the way, right. And so this Theodore Hertzel is
this German journalist who's going there just as a journalist
to cover the trial of a Jewish French Jewish general, right,
and he is shocked to see the French just turn
into beasts on the streets and screamed for the destruction,
the killing of the Jews. He came back said, we
need our own place. That was the birth of Zionism basically,

(01:08:47):
and the theory it had nothing to do with, you know, essentially,
it had to do with an existential threat.

Speaker 1 (01:08:52):
Again for the Jews in Eastern Europe it did. Yeah, absolutely,
What did it have to do with for the British.
I mean the British used that, I believe they used
that movement, but they also had problems. Maybe so, But
if you want to survive David right, the Eastern European
Jews needed.

Speaker 2 (01:09:08):
You would make allies, right, you would make allies like
for example, Netta Yahoo was on a podcast with Ben
Shpier a few days ago, and he talked about his
father lobbying both Republicans and Democrats to you know, basically, hey,
you know, align with us, and so we can you know,
basically again, help us survive. Right, I understand having to survive.

(01:09:30):
I'm not going to blame anyone. If everybody's after you're
trying to destroy you, and you're going to try to survive,
you may have to make allies with people you don't
really necessarily like ethically hopefully right, But people, forget, these
are not just ideas. At the end of the day,
we're talking about the lives of people. How about the

(01:09:51):
people that talk about the Christ killing Forget the fact
that Hitler produced the Nazi Bible.

Speaker 1 (01:09:57):
Have ever heard of the Nazi Bible?

Speaker 2 (01:09:59):
No? Okay, So the Nazis created their own version of
the Bible and they eradicate it in it. It's a translation,
modern translation in Germany, that's a historic truth. And the
Nazi Bible eradicates all the Jewish mentions.

Speaker 1 (01:10:14):
And you know, basically is.

Speaker 2 (01:10:15):
Turning into an Anglo Saxon original document of some kind.
So that's that's to the degree of depravity that that
these people's minds, they're just like Jew hatred is like
a in my opinion, is like an infection of some kind.

Speaker 1 (01:10:29):
It's just brain rot.

Speaker 2 (01:10:31):
I mean, what would cause you to go and scrap
the how I don't know how much of the Bible
they scrap, right, but what would even give you the
idea you can write a new version of the Bible,
you know, only to remove the Jewish influence. You can't
even do that. It's ridiculous, right, But just the intent,
you know, this this accessant intent in some people to

(01:10:53):
just they just hate the Jews.

Speaker 1 (01:10:54):
Something in them.

Speaker 2 (01:10:55):
It's irrational, actually, it's it's a spiritual thing. And and
and the problem problem in America today, I think because
I'm listening to you know, the you know, following the
monitoring the conversation on X the problem is that I
see is that you have the the Jew hating right
or left, but you also have the poorly equipped Christians
who mostly support Israel because of eschatological or prophecy positions,

(01:11:20):
which in my opinion.

Speaker 1 (01:11:21):
Are that's a poor position the the let's talk about that. Yeah,
let's let's let's really focus, okay on the scripture and
the politics of why you're saying it's an intellectually and
scripturally weak Yes, I could do that. That'd be very briefly.

Speaker 2 (01:11:43):
So eschatology is the study of end times for the
last times. How would the world end? You know, here's
a question. So if you go to Hebrews chapter six
in the beginning, uh, the author of Hebrews, nobody agrees,
you know perfectly that it's Paul. But let's just say
the author of Hebrews, the Book of Hebrews, right, he
mentions the foundational doctrines of Christianity, repentance of that works,

(01:12:06):
the teaching on baptisms, faith in God, laying on of hands,
the resurrection of the dead, and judgment. If you look
at those six that are being listed their doctrines, if
you will, or that package, it kind of offers to
you the whole entire philosophy, like here's how you come
into the Kingdom of God, Here's how you live into

(01:12:26):
the Kingdom of God by faith. Right, and here's the
end the teaching on you know, the end time. There
will be an end to this creation according to the Bible.

Speaker 1 (01:12:35):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:12:35):
So the problem is when we get into a whole
lot of guessing how exactly the end will come.

Speaker 1 (01:12:42):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:12:43):
This is where all the eschatological schools differ because you
have the different views. You have the amillennial view, which
is historically the longest view, which is the Catholic Church view.
Is like the amillennial view is looking at you know,
the Book of Revelation as a metaphor. The millennium is
really a metaphor for the reign of Christ on earth.

(01:13:06):
Now there's really no thousand years of Christ.

Speaker 1 (01:13:08):
On the earth.

Speaker 2 (01:13:09):
There's the pre tribulation view that says, well, there will
be a rapture before Christ comes. There's the mid trip
post tribulation, and so forth and so on. All of
these views, right, are basically, in one way, you can
say speculation. We don't have a historic evidence that during

(01:13:30):
the early years of Christianity, if you call it, that
there was important to anyone. They basically believed that the
end will come one day. We don't know where it is.
Christ themselves said, don't try to guess it, don't name dates, right,
and live purely as if you would die tomorrow. But
don't obsess over how exactly the end belcome. It has

(01:13:51):
no relevance to salvation. How the invercome has no relevance
to the redemptive story. Right, the redemptive story of death
a very Jewish position. And by the way it is,
I mean that is that's where we align again. The
state of man, the condition of man, the condition of
the world you live in. Accepting responsibility for your own
condition before you go around blaming other people is very

(01:14:12):
much a Biblical redemptive concept, right, And so to become
even pro Israel solely based on your eschatological views, eschatological views,
in my opinion, is not the original Christian Zionism. The
original Christian Zionism deeply rooted and just biblical fulfillment of

(01:14:32):
the promise that God gave to Israel. You have your
land one day, I'll be back period and the story.
I have a weird question about that.

Speaker 3 (01:14:40):
So there's no room for misunderstanding that Israel is just
all land on earth. Is it specifically this continent in
that area that they are at, or could it be
well historically that was their land.

Speaker 1 (01:14:55):
Historically.

Speaker 2 (01:14:56):
You have coins, inscriptions, you have a lot of archaeological
it is going back thousand years before Christ. So that's
three thousand years of history. That that was the land
of Israel spoken of in the Bible archaeologically confirmed. Why
would they go elsewhere?

Speaker 1 (01:15:12):
Right?

Speaker 3 (01:15:13):
Well, no, and I understand that. I guess I'm confused.
Where did I know the story of Israel is wrestling
with God? Right or something along that word Jacob Jacob,
So that's where the name had come from.

Speaker 2 (01:15:25):
It was changed by God from Jacob to Israel, from
you know, deceiver, because that was the name given a
birth to prince with God.

Speaker 1 (01:15:35):
Israel means a prince.

Speaker 3 (01:15:35):
With God, right, Okay, continue, Sorry, I just wanted to
ask that because I could kind of see it if, Like,
I just have a really hard time wrapping my head
around why it's this piece of land.

Speaker 1 (01:15:47):
Why it's in the Bible. Play it's biblical.

Speaker 2 (01:15:49):
It's literally in the Biblical text he gives the borders,
and it's actually much less land today than what the
biblical borders are.

Speaker 1 (01:15:56):
If the Jews were fanatics, there goes greater Israel. Exactly.
If the Jews were.

Speaker 2 (01:16:01):
Really fanatics, the fanatics that they say they are, they
would be arming themselves. They would be teaching their kids
now one day it will become great Israel. Look at
the biblical boundaries of Israel.

Speaker 1 (01:16:10):
They're not doing that.

Speaker 2 (01:16:12):
They're not doing that because if you look at the
original boundaries that God gives their Abraham, they're much bigger.
They're going to Jordan, they go into all these different
So the Jews are kind of like, yeah, this used
to be all our land and promise to us by God.

Speaker 1 (01:16:24):
But we'll settle for this right. Can we just live here?
And can you just leave us alone so we can
live here. This is the part that really has gotten
lost over the course of my lifetime. Israel is viewed
now as a very militaristic and tyrannical state by the
left particularly, But I know the whole essence of being

(01:16:46):
a believer. When people talk about the Torah, when they
tell you we want you to learn this book, here's
what they say. All its paths are paths of peace.
So if you steep yourself in the study of the Torah,
the Five Books of Moses, the idea is to bring
about peace and prosperity, well being. It's not about being

(01:17:08):
a military rist state.

Speaker 2 (01:17:11):
Here's a good one and you probably know more about that.
But tannor that might be curious for you, not like, actually,
a minority of Jews today believe, even Orthodox Jews, if
you ask them about a coming Messiah. Talking about the
disagreement between Christians and Jews. A lot of Jews don't
even believe in a historical Messiah coming. They're just believe

(01:17:31):
in the Messianic age. Maybe, right, it's only a segment
of Jews that actually believe in the coming of today
right now, I'm saying, if you look at there's research,
there's different eschatologies, they've changed through the ages, their understanding
of what a Messiah is. So now a lot of
Jews in Judaism they're like, well, maybe it's not a
particular figure, Maybe it's just an age that's going to come.

(01:17:53):
They're really striving towards peace. Basically, they want leave us alone,
will leave you alone, essentially, right, And that's been lost
because of propaganda, because if you look at from the
Theodor Hertzel saying we need our own state to protect
ourselves down all the way to today. Yes, they may

(01:18:13):
have gone off into Oh Israel spied on so and so, Yeah,
everybody spies on everybody. Really, you're gonna pinpoint the Jews
when the reality is, oh, they're really good at cyber
why not you'd be good at cyber too if you want.
It's a free market. You know they're smart. Well, yeah,
go ahead, be smart too. What did the Jews have

(01:18:34):
to do in Europe? They're not allowed to have land,
for example, the Jews could not own land in Europe, right,
so they develop lending. You want your money transported from
Rome to London in the fourteenth century. You know who
was going to do that?

Speaker 1 (01:18:47):
The Jews.

Speaker 2 (01:18:48):
They had a little community here in London, and they
put it in the money in the courier's pocket and
they said, you know what, you need to transport this
money from Genoa to London and for a small fee. Okay,
this is how modern lending was born. Okay, And so
they developed that whole internal system.

Speaker 1 (01:19:08):
What else to do?

Speaker 2 (01:19:09):
They got no land, so they went into knowledge services, right,
they became advisors to kings, because what do you do?
I mean, you're studying the Toronto all the day. And
one rabbi said, you know, we've been trying to figure
out how to con God for how many centuries? Right,
that's what we're smart lawyers. It's a study of the
scripture of the thought.

Speaker 1 (01:19:28):
Well, we talked about that briefly, about the capturing of
the word, the ability to manipulate the word. Yes, and
I know this, you have to Actually, it's not a
Jewish thing, it's a human thing. There are people that
have found an ability to connect with creativity. Yeah, and
it's not owned by the Jews. But the Jews are

(01:19:50):
just very good at it because it's taught father to son,
that ability to study, to inquire, to create. That's the
essence of being Jewish, and it could be the essence.
My feeling. Has got nothing to do with being Jewish.
It's got to do with being human and circumstances too.
The circumstances for you were talking about that it is

(01:20:13):
shape you into. You know, the lawyer and tea times
make the warriors exactly the times make the worriors.

Speaker 2 (01:20:19):
So you have to understand the human history. You have
to underst The best way to understand an issue is
what is the story behind it. Every time someone takes
something out of context and they develop this whole thing.

Speaker 1 (01:20:30):
I feel I didn't know we were going to go
with this direction. I like this because I struggle with
all this anti Semitism that I see on X like
you do. I really didn't plan on talking about this
anti Semitism in this way at this time, but that
does tie in. You said something that is a bombshell
that some of the listeners and viewers are going to

(01:20:52):
have to cogitate on. Your theory of the case is
that the eschatology is not necessarily correct the way this
in gathering is being portrayed as the preface to the
return of Christ. If I understand you correctly, you're saying

(01:21:16):
from your perspective that reading of the Holy script yes,
is incorrect. Do I understand you absolutely?

Speaker 2 (01:21:25):
I do not believe support for Israel has to be
based on eschatology at all. Now, if you do, I'm
fine with that. If that's your reading. If if if
you come from a school of thought that says, oh,
it's it's going to happen like this, Israel has to
be brought to the land because of the anti Christ. Well,
I don't even believe it. Where in scripture does it
speak of a of a literal anti Christ? Do you
know that is not even in the Bible. Okay, it

(01:21:48):
speaks of the spirit of Antichrist, but it never really
points out to a person that says this person will
be anti Christ one time. It speaks of the man
of sin, and you can to base an entire doctrine
one verse. I'm sorry, Okay. Then people hop over to
the Book of Revelation and they take components of the
Book of Revelation and and they put together these these theories,

(01:22:12):
which is fine. You want to have a theory or
a freakingom speech, you can do whatever you want, but
don't tell me you're going to take a verse, a
single verse, and you're going to construct. And actually, the
idea of a physical Antichrist is pretty relevant.

Speaker 1 (01:22:26):
This is like the Schofield Bible.

Speaker 2 (01:22:28):
This is like nineteenth end of nineteenth century type stuff.
So it's a pretty recent development that we believe in
some Antichrist coming who will be in Jerusalem, right, and
the Jews are in the mix somehow at Antichrist, maybe
he will be even Jewish?

Speaker 1 (01:22:42):
Is this all is just to meet.

Speaker 2 (01:22:43):
Speculation and support for Israel should not come based on
eschatological interpretation.

Speaker 1 (01:22:51):
Yet Yet, what we're experiment, what we're an experiment, what
we're exploring, you know, is that exact strain. I don't
know how to say it that exact movement, which is
giant in the Republican Party. Yeah, Christian evangelical belief, this

(01:23:12):
eschatological belief started with Billy Graham. Really, Billy Graham was
the progenitor, I mean, the most popular progenitor of it.
It influenced Nixon, it influenced Reagan, It's influenced Trump. Trump
actually is on tape saying that the reason he moved
the American Embassy to Jerusalem, he says, this is for

(01:23:32):
the Evangelicals, and we have this Christians United for Israel,
which we have a very strong contingent of that here
in Minnesota, which comes from Living Word Church Mack Hammond,
who I've watched since I was young. He used to
have the winners minuted on television. And you're really taking
a contrarian position to that. It is contrarian.

Speaker 2 (01:23:54):
It is contraying, like I said, I you know, from
a Jewish perspective, and because I love Israel, okay, of
I mean just going record and say I love Israel.
I see myself as a joined in to the tribe,
and I respect.

Speaker 1 (01:24:06):
And that's scriptural.

Speaker 2 (01:24:07):
It's scriptural. We are grafted in and we must have
a deep, profound appreciation. Do you know that how many
Jews were killed for simply copywriting, like copying the Torah?
Do you know that they were considering each letter of
the Torasso sacred that they would you know, the scribes
when they when they create a Toro scroll, that's what

(01:24:30):
they do like it's it's meticulous. It's a meticulous job
to handwrite, make sure every character, they will go wash
their hands, they will pray before that. The level of
dedication to the Torah is we Christians have no concept.

Speaker 1 (01:24:44):
I have a story for you. I've told it before,
but I'm gonna tell it to you. So you know,
I was raised in a pretty religious for sure. So
what they do with young kids like me, who they
hope go to rabbinical school they called Yeshiva. My father
was a Yeshiv bocher. So I was raised by very
religious people. So they give you an opportunity to participate

(01:25:04):
in the creation of a Torus scroll when I'm young,
I mean just right after from bar Mitzvah, and you
have to it has to be done perfect. There's no
air exactly practice for a long time. Because you get
one letter. Okay, kids, step up to the plate. You
get one swing, and I asked the rabbi afterwards, I said,
you know, this is a little bit going back to

(01:25:28):
this Nazi Bible, because if the Nazis had won, that'd
be the Bible probably. Yeah, I asked that rabbi. I said,
you know, you don't know me very good, and I
just got to write in this Torah. Can anybody do that?
And could they change it? Did I get an ask

(01:25:49):
weapon for that question, because this brings up, you know,
a related idea, which is, you know, is the Bible
the revealed word of God? Did God write the Bible?

Speaker 2 (01:26:02):
I mean, all, let's start with something else, Tanners, I
take you to the Christian right, yeah, okay, so this
might be very interesting, especially to Christians. But all modern
translations that we have today right based on the Massoretic Text.
The Massoretic Text is you know, around the tenth century,
eleventh century and so for for how many years from

(01:26:26):
so you're looking at like a thousand years of the
Massoretic Text being the go to original script, which was
preserved all by Jews, right, And so there was a
lot of speculation up to the discovery of the Dead
Sea Scrolls that maybe there's a fraud, maybe there's a forgery. Maybe,
how can we rely how can we know we can
trust this translation?

Speaker 1 (01:26:47):
How do we know if any of this?

Speaker 2 (01:26:50):
And then the Dead Sea Scrolls, which was by the way,
tied to the whole story of Israel coming back together
and the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls is an
Indiana Jones material basically, yeah, seriously it is. No, Yeah,
I know what's saying. I don't know if you're familiar.
But here's the thing though, just linguistically, if you look
at the Dead Sea Scrolls, over ninety percent of what

(01:27:14):
was preserved for a thousand years by Jewish rabbis in
terms of the scripture itself, right, thousand years of preservation
of that text, over ninety percent of it is identical
to the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Speaker 1 (01:27:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:27:29):
So my question is, though, where does King James tie
into this? Because I know the Bible I have in
my car right now, it's the King James version. Yes,
so where does where does that?

Speaker 1 (01:27:38):
So he.

Speaker 2 (01:27:40):
Ordered because King James, for political reasons, had to be
the head of the church. Right, the Lean Church diverges
from Rome and says no, the king is going to
be the head of the Anglican Church. So he had
to have his own translation, right, and he wanted he
really wanted his name in it too. That's why the
Book of James is named after him, by the way.
I don't know if you knew that or not, because
in in his original language, James is Yakov, right, So

(01:28:05):
it has nothing to do with James, but they've managed
to translate Yakov.

Speaker 1 (01:28:10):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:28:11):
So so he ordered the translation and a lot of
Jewish scholars are also part of that, by the way.
So the origins of it, basically it was a commission
by the by the king, right, and it became kind
of like the go to from from that point on,
just because it was sanctioned by by by it and
it's considered it's considered the authoritative translation from the original

(01:28:36):
languages to to English.

Speaker 1 (01:28:38):
Yeah, so how can I be?

Speaker 3 (01:28:40):
I just get worried because he was the one that
then picked out the order of the books and then
like what books would be prevalent in it? So are
there any missing books?

Speaker 2 (01:28:48):
So you you have books that are apocryphal, considered apocrapha
meaning outside of being necessarily divine, right, So.

Speaker 3 (01:28:58):
Kind of like if we're talking about fictional stuff, the
canon events.

Speaker 2 (01:29:01):
The canon was was was determined muturelier. The canon the
canon formation goes back to the early Church fathers and
you know, early centuries. That's never to do with King James.
He just he took the can He took the books
that are basically established as canon. And now the Catholic
Bible does include what we considered apocrypher historic books that

(01:29:24):
are an apocrypha. But the thirty nine books of the
Old Testament, the twenty seven of the New Testament was
something that he worked. He was already determined. He didn't
he didn't pick and choose those books.

Speaker 1 (01:29:34):
Okay, okay, Yeah, but it does go into this conversation
we're having about what people are reading. The real issue
is how do they read what they're reading. Let's just
assume that there's a constancy, and we're talking about this
disagreement and what and you're being very frank about it.

(01:29:55):
You're saying it's okay with you. You're not looking for
a fight with people. Now, you're just saying, from your
perspective of that's not how you're reading the text. We
talk a lot about on this podcast about street corners.
There can be a lot of difference. There's four street.
It's like if you're judging a boxing match. Okay, if
you watch an interaction from two different parts of the ring,

(01:30:17):
they look completely different. What ends up happening. I think
what's dangerous is that secret societies can capture the word
in Hebrew, Jewish people, Christian people, they can capture it,
and then they can use the word, use it, and
there's great power in it. For example, we were talking
about healing. You're talking about you know those attributes, supernatural attributes,

(01:30:45):
you know, healing, supernatural healing. That is part and parcel
with reading the text. A lot of people read that
and they don't see that exactly. So I see that,
you know, and I live it. So but I could
tell to somebody else and they go, man, you're crazy. Yeah,
we have to.

Speaker 2 (01:31:03):
The only way we can find, let's say the unified
Christian West is not to go after the Jewish question.
So to say this is this is a recipe for disaster.
Right the core and this is true for history as well.
The core believes should be the Creator. You know, if
we believe in the Creator, if we believe in the

(01:31:26):
divinely inspired Word of God, if we believe in there's
some just fundamentals, there's basic.

Speaker 1 (01:31:31):
Core redemption, the redemption.

Speaker 2 (01:31:33):
Yeah, these are the important big ticket items that we
call them, right, that that are in the core of
the faith. Those core beliefs are equally true for Christianity.
For example, love your neighbors yourself is not a Christian invention.
This was this comes from Leviticus. This is this is
not a Christian thing. This is a rabbi retelling the
book of Leviticus. So why would I not have something

(01:31:56):
in common with my Jewish brothers and sisters just because
they agree that Jesus is the fulfillment of the Messianic prophecy.
That's fine. They can disagree and they can seek in
their own way, they can examine scriptures. We can argue
about it, but at the end of the day, we're
asking the same God to help guide us to help

(01:32:16):
with their moral condition.

Speaker 1 (01:32:18):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:32:19):
And you live in a hostile world again, I'm very
much about what's the reality on the ground. You live
in a world full of wars and and you know,
desire for one group to extinguish another, right to destroy another.
So in this world you got to make up your mind.
Who are my allies? Who am I ally with ideologically, spiritually,

(01:32:40):
philosophically right, and if you missed that big picture, to me,
that's it's just that's.

Speaker 1 (01:32:46):
A great point. That's a great point to let this
be a springboard to your next visit. Okay, my question
is how do we unify the various factions in the
so called Mega movement or the Republican Party, Because if
we don't have unity, if we allow ourselves to continue
to be fractured, the communists will win, and the communist

(01:33:11):
globalists and they know what they're doing, and they're all
too willing to exacerbate these tensions. And now we're all
on acts, are in digital and we don't know where
these posts are coming from and who's posting and what
their intent is. So you know, I'm I'm seen by
people in the Republican Party as being divisive, and that's
because we don't agree. But that doesn't mean I don't

(01:33:34):
like these people or want to break bread with them.
I have. Well that's not true. I met a couple,
but mostly the Republican people that don't agree with me,
I like them as people. I'm not opposed to them personally.
I don't take any of it personally. I'm looking for
and this is very helpful. What are the big ticket
items that can bring us together.

Speaker 2 (01:33:57):
It's like we just dropped a bomb on Iran, right
and we achieved better world peace, peace or strength was
just a great lesson.

Speaker 1 (01:34:05):
So great.

Speaker 2 (01:34:07):
However, Uh, we do have existential issues here in the
United States. You know, you you remember what happened with
the riots around the George Floyd situations on the block right, right, exactly,
So we do have existential we have on the inside.
Now these a breeding ground.

Speaker 1 (01:34:27):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:34:27):
You know, every mosque, for example, is a is a
military outpost, right that in doctrine AIDS the Infidel has
to be in.

Speaker 1 (01:34:34):
The Infidel is a dog.

Speaker 2 (01:34:35):
If you examine the Islamic ideology. I'm not talking about
Muslims who are peaceful and they're doing you know what
do they call reformed so to speak, Well, there's no
such thing as reformed. But that's a whole different story,
you know what I'm trying to say. Yeah, no, I
understand people people that are actually less less into the
Muslim ideology or religion, they're more peaceful. The more the
deeper you get into it, the more the more hot

(01:34:57):
and yeah, hottest, you become jee hottest. Right, So every
Moscoe a breeding ground for this militant ideology when you
take the the militant left, which is a terrorist left basically.

Speaker 1 (01:35:08):
Which is not allied with that middle allied. They've always
been allied.

Speaker 2 (01:35:12):
Right, We actually have existential issues we need to at home,
We need exactly and so so again, what's the recipe.
I don't have the recipe, of course, but I believe
that you know the different maga you know movements, if
you will, We need to agree that the number one
concern here is preserving America right, preserving it as the

(01:35:33):
republic that that we believe in, and it was given
to us.

Speaker 1 (01:35:37):
There was that that we see in the writings.

Speaker 2 (01:35:39):
Of the Foundress and the Federalist papers and the Constitution,
that historical you know, gift that's been given to us.
We must fight for it here on our own turf, right,
because there's this whole internal destructive force now that's been unleashed,
and that's that we really should be re examining a
whole stance in light of just a very basic existential threats.

Speaker 1 (01:36:02):
And that's what the whole podcast is about, getting people
off the couch and into politics politically active in the parties,
so that a unity can develop around our constitution, around
our phonding documents, because why because it identifies a creator
that granted us unalienable rights, and that is something that

(01:36:24):
needs preservation. Yes, for sure, I'm going to have you
back if you'll come. This was great. Did you have
a good time, Tanner? This was way better than no offense.

Speaker 3 (01:36:34):
It's just sometimes talking about these kind of topics can
get pretty like boring.

Speaker 2 (01:36:38):
This was amazing.

Speaker 4 (01:36:39):
I'm so happy that you're here. Well, I answered my
question because you were the reason. It's like, hey, Tanner
didn't get an answer to this question. So now I've
I completed that part of the movie, So we'll work
on We'll go on to number two. Well, there's more,
David and I and I really applaud you for being
that open minded. I wish our opponents were just as
open minded, which they're not. They're just a hardcore ideaologues

(01:36:59):
and times that. You know, the whole Cancel culture does
not want these conversations right. We must open an opportunity
where all these perspective must be looked at.

Speaker 1 (01:37:09):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:37:09):
And like I said, I haven't been persecuted by a government.
I know what that feels like as well. Right in
Bulgaria when I grew at church from zero to one thousand,
only to have the government shut me down. And for
seven years I operated as a as an underground operation.
And let me just say, George, you're just a regular
guy like me. In fact, George, and that the last
time we saw each other, we moved a friend from

(01:37:32):
one house to another, exactly. So we got up in
the morning, we were lifting coaches together, exactly. And that's
the last time. That's a long time ago. My point
is all of the listeners and the viewers see the
depth of George's study from his presentation. We're searching for
truth here on this podcast. Freedom requires intent in scholarship

(01:37:57):
and a continuous search for truth. And if we can
come if we can come together as Republicans and I
don't mean the party, I mean as citizens of the republic.
Yet we have to search for these commonalities and unite
around them and understand. And I'm going to leave with this.

(01:38:18):
You know, you talked about those bombs in Iran, and
you said, but we have to really focus on our
own as an existential threat here in the United States.
We have to get our own. You can bleep this out.

Speaker 1 (01:38:29):
We got to get our own together and not continuously
get drained militarily and financially, because how can anybody be
defended if we can't defend ourselves. I agree completely so
on that NOE. Thank you for coming in and I
have your commitment to come back. That's great. It was
great to have you, Tanner. Thank you very much, of course,

(01:38:50):
thank you, George, absolutely, Thanks Tanner.

Speaker 2 (01:38:52):
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Who Killed Jesus Christ?! | STREET PREACHIN' w/ Professor Penn | EP220

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Who Killed Jesus Christ?! | STREET PREACHIN' w/ Professor Penn | EP220