May 16, 2025 • 48 mins
As someone who experienced the good, the bad, and the ugly side of the music industry, Aubrey shares her thoughts on Cassie's cross examination.
From the text messages, to the testimony, Aubrey offers Amy and T.J. some eye-opening courtroom context.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Amy and TJ presents Aubrey O Day covering the Diddy Trial.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Welcome everyone to Amy and TJ Presents Aubrey O Day.
I'm Amy Robock alongside my partner TJ Holmes, and we
have Aubrey with us to talk about what's going on
with the Sean Diddy Coombs trial. And Aubrey certainly has
perspective like no one else.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Absolutely, But we're going to get into some of the
details from of course the star witness, Cassie Venturer. But
can you just give me your initial impression because so
many of us have heard this testimony and your jaws
are dropped, But give me your impression of what we've
heard so far and how she's doing. We'll get into
some details, but just initial impression of how she's done.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Initial impression from what I'm able to read in the
transcripts and from people that I have giving the information
in court is it feels very honest. It feels very open, vulnerable, horrific.
Sometimes I hear her discuss things that she did then
(01:10):
and how now she would never she understands it differently,
and that makes me feel like so happy for her
that she's come, you know, because I don't know her
as a mom, so like to understand that she made
that evolution and went to the other side of viewing
all of it made me feel like really proud of her.
(01:31):
It's horrific that it's horrific that she had to go
through go through so much. You know, there was one
part of the testimony that was so telling. It's not
even anything anyone's really touching on, but there was a
transcript that I read that went something like like, you know,
(01:53):
I don't really or can we talk? I wanted to
bring something up to you and he's like, okay, yeah,
you know you don't want to do the freak out now.
You so predictable. That's a very It's a statement that
groomers make if you've ever dated anyone that doesn't really
love you and is like abusive usually and pushing you
(02:14):
into things. It doesn't even have to be sexual. It
could be anything they want you to do. It's like
almost training a child, right like, oh, you want to
bring up this? You so predictable, like you just like
the rest of them. And then you get that feeling
as a woman to be like no, wait, I'm not
I promise you then talk yourself back into an idea,
same way when she was brutally abused in that hallway,
(02:38):
him writing her, I'm about to get arrested. The police
are here. They've already testified to the fact that there
was no arrest and there was no police arresting him.
That was to get her to come back.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
That control, it's.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Control, coercion, it's grooming. It's all pieces of many things
that make me really understand how much manipulation was involved
in getting her to activate the emotions that he wanted
her to project.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Aubrey. So many of us who have been listening to
Cassie's testimony have been shocked. I mean, we had heard
like just general details about what she might say, but
to actually hear her go into descriptive detail about what
she says she experienced over a decade. Was there anything
she said in these last several days of testimony that
(03:33):
surprised you, that shocked you? No, Wow, What was the
hardest thing to hear from her?
Speaker 3 (03:48):
That she felt so loved in his company, and she
felt he made her feel unlike anyone else, and so
she would do these things because it was the only
time and chance that she got to really spend in
(04:09):
that feeling that was That was a hard listen because
I think any woman that's ever cared for somebody that
may not have that ability or desire to, has pandered
in one way or another, whether it's a sex party
or bringing themselves down to certain levels that no woman
(04:34):
should have to emotionally saying things, utilizing whatever tool any
woman finds herself having as valuable or has been told
because yet to remember, women see ourselves through the projection
of men. You know, since we're young kids, since we're
young girls, we're kind of groomed into these social ideas
and norms. I mean, should I just turn forty one
(04:55):
and people are saying to me, oh, so you didn't
want kids, Well, I honestly, I'm just getting to age
where I'm finally free from a lot of chaos and
could start thinking about that. I realize that that's troubling
for everybody else because it's geriatric and whatever all the
titles are, But actually, yeah, I do. I've always wanted kids,
but the answer has already decided for me when somebody
comes to me. There's so many social norms that women
(05:18):
just accept, and in that instance, I just know that
I know what it feels like to year and after
somebody that I really loves attention. And there probably were
a lot of ways that I have compromised. No, let
me not say probably. There are many ways that I
have compromised myself. Not in the same ways as Cassie necessarily,
(05:40):
but I don't judge her compromise. A compromise is a compromise.
When you compromise yourself, you're doing the same damage. It
really doesn't matter in what area, it's all the same.
That knowledge of understanding how we compromise for people's love
is something I believe that will resonate just with everybody.
(06:01):
It certainly had me going through all my relationships like, wow,
I thought this relationship was something like this, and I've
always narrated it and believed it to be so. But
as I start to think about it, there were times
that I yearned for this person's attention, and there were
there were ways that I was not true to myself
(06:25):
in order to get it. And it's because of all
kinds of things for me, you know, a bad childhood,
not ever feeling like anyone would fight for me. I
don't have a mom and dad or anyone to call,
and because I spent from my young days to forty
one being in this industry, I didn't It's not like
(06:47):
I made a good friend like a group of girlfriends
while while my friends were doing that in their twenties
and thirties, I was uber famous. So it's not like
I have this group of friends that I even go to.
So it's it's just a I don't know. That was
the part of the testimony that really like stood out
(07:09):
to me as being as really making me recall a
lot of times that I have done that.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
I don't know if you saw us both react, We
looked at each other because we were I think we
both got tears in our eyes reporting on that this week,
that was the moment that was most chillingest to hear
all the horror, but for her to say the highlight
of a freak off was she just enjoys spending time
with him. That was that was tough.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
That jumped out at us too. So when you said that,
we both said, Wow, we had the exact same react.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
And remember what I said to you last time, There's
nobody else that I would want to revisit more than him.
When he is proud of you and when he gives
you his attention and thinks that you're great, and if
you notice. In her testimony, she says, I don't know
what the first freak off was. I was drugged. It
was weird. I felt dirty, I felt embarrassed, but then
(07:58):
he was really proud of me, and so I felt good.
I understand all of those emotions in regards to that man.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
It's so it's something so many of us can.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Okay, help us with And how does it play into
the story? We a lot of us didn't know it.
She was nineteen when they met. He kissed her, she said,
he testified at a birthday party. She said was unwanted.
At the time. She wasn't comfortable with the idea of
dating him. What do you make of I don't know
if you knew that story already, But what do you
make of hearing that and how it now played into
(08:34):
I guess the rest of their relationship.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
I think it would probably be very You know, I've
dated somebody in a very compromising state and position that
wasn't necessarily fully open to the world, and so I
kind of had to play along with whatever the narratives were.
And there's an exhilaration there. The lifestyle that did he
live is so extreme in every way. I think that
(09:06):
that could have been There could have been like an
excitement there. There could have been a fear. There could
have been like, you know, butterflies in your stomach when
somebody that powerful wants to experience you in that way.
I don't know how she testified to feeling about it.
I think she just was like, WHOA, that happened? Like
(09:29):
I didn't see that it was bad or good in
the testimony. I'm not sure if I missed something, but
I think it probably it probably made her feel that,
like of everybody around, he wanted her, which maybe made
her feel like she was very special.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
You've talked about all the people around Diddy who were
there to make sure he had his every need met.
When you heard Cassie testify about all the people who
supplied the drugs, the baby oil, who all had to
be a part of creating these freakouts, or at least
(10:08):
the ambiance around them. The lighting had to be correct,
the hotel rooms had to be.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
Very ditty, very scorpio, very visual.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Were Yes, were you aware? Like I know that you
said you weren't surprised by your testimony, But did everyone
know that this was all going on, that these freakoffs
and these sex parties were happening, And apparently there had
to have been so many bottles of these of this
baby oil around that. I mean, that was a big
headline obviously early on. But you start hearing about just
(10:37):
how much and why he wanted it, and was that
all common knowledge?
Speaker 3 (10:41):
So I never witnessed a big room of baby oil
in my time there, but on set we were to
be lathered and shining. You know, they always used either
baby oil later on down the line. All of oil
spray can make you like shine, shimmer To me, I
(11:02):
still use it when I do photo shoots because it
was a great tool to learn during my time in
the beginning making music videos. And when you shine, it
looks better on camera to me. All of that plays
into these visual aesthetics that were pleasing enough for him
to be sitting in the corner and jacking off to it.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
You know, I haven't heard somebody put you made a
good point. I hadn't thought about in all these videos.
It wasn't just think it's a part. Yes, it's a
part of sex, and maybe they're slipping and slid and
having a good time. Do you think but you're saying
it'sduction value to it that I hadn't.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Thought about it, that he was almost creating his own pornow.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Yes, he also made music videos all the time. I mean,
this is a man that lived and breathed in the
creative space and produced albums and records and music videos
and all of the above. I mean he would come
on set whether we had a full blown direc and
everything else, and when he got on set, if he
wanted everything a whole different way, that's what had to happen.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Okay. And so to that point, we heard Cassie talk
about and she said even a facial expression, the wrong
face could set him off into alien.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
That's absolutely accurate. You saw that, Yes, experienced it many times.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
It was directed at you.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
It was on camera. You can watch making the band
and see a few moments where just a face created
a reaction that was abusive.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Did you always in an argument or back and forth
like that, get to some point where you felt physically
threatened after seeing something like that. If everybody wasn't in
the room and it was just YouTube, maybe it would
have felt a little different, but it felt physically intimidating. Yes,
would everybody have that experience who's been around him?
Speaker 3 (12:54):
No, because he wasn't interested in everybody. There were people
in my band that he didn't really spend much time
even learning their names.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Sometimes I'm curious. I was kind of impressed actually at
how much you pushed back with him.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Yeah, that was not something that anyone in my group did.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
So that was what I was going to ask. Were
you a I mean, you ended up getting pushed out
of the band because of him.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
Fired on national television and blamed for the entire demise
of not only Danity Kane, but the series that was
on for seven seasons on making the band on the
biggest network at the time that everyone fell in love
with and to this day, if you look it up,
it's aubry O Dat's fault.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
And would you say that that was because you stood
up to him, You said what you wanted. You actually
were speaking your truth and he didn't like that.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
I think that as things come out, and when I'm
not exclusive, that you will be able to read documents
that suggest exactly what his problem with me was and
exactly what he wanted me to do or I was
not needed.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Cassie's husband has been sitting in the courtroom listening to
all of this. I couldn't imagine doing so. I think
he had to walk out at certain points when she
described a she said he allegedly raped her, that he did.
Just what's your take on him. I don't know if
you know him. I've been around him at all. But
(14:32):
take on her having to do this in front of
her now husband that she's about to have a child with.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
I think the response of people online is disgusting in
that regard, saying like, oh, what man would want? He
must be memes of an embarrassed guy or whatever. God
it makes me sick seeing people interpret it like that
because I don't think there's anyone on earth that loved
her more. She was able to finally get away from
(14:58):
all of that that she was in because she fell
in love with her trainer. That did He got her.
That's who Alex Fine is. He probably showed her a gentle, soft,
kind love. He probably mirrored back to her, because that's
what we do as partners, right, That's why you stop
loving sometimes a partner that you're with contractually in front
(15:18):
of the world or not, you stop being able to
mirror back something that you want to see, and then
all of a sudden, you go to work one day
and somebody's mirroring you and you feel kind of good
and you kind of like yourself again, and you think
you're neat and they think you're neat. We are mirrors
for each other. Personal relationships are simply, in my opinion,
(15:39):
necessary for sure, because it's the only person that you're
getting that vulnerable with, potentially physically fully physically giving your
body to. They're an absolute mirror to you. When you
do things that are not kind or good or questionable,
they mirror back a response to you, and you have
to see yourself. If you don't have any relationships like that,
(16:00):
you're never learning or growing and you have nothing to observe.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
That's that's actually an excellent point.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
I didn't know people were clowning him online for being
in the court room. Actually I haven't seen that.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Don't go on X.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
He's yeah, we try to avoid that actually, at all
at all costs.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
Yeah, so do I. But I think he's proud of her.
I think he loves her so much. I don't think
he's getting her. Yeah, he's there yeah. I mean when
anyone that has anything negative to say about that, I
think he has heartbroken. I think he probably wants to
fuck up Puff. He probably is holding himself back from
jumping over the table, as any man that loves their
wife should. I think it is tense. The more tense
(16:38):
interaction that I was very curious of is with Puff
because it's been spoken about as common knowledge amongst people
that are in the scene and around that situation that
it was rough losing Cassie for him, and with Kim
(16:59):
being gone, this would likely be the only other person
that had these that maybe he loved and claimed in
front of the world like he did Kim. There's not
a ton of women that he's like openly claimed for
very long periods of time. And I think like he
probably was sitting in front of somebody that he loved
(17:20):
most in the lane of girlfriend and you know, beyond
Kim porter, and then also somebody that he probably hates
the most in life because she's potentially he sees her
as responsible for being the demise of his entire existence.
And I thought the dynamics of also him knowing that
(17:43):
that could have been the baby that's inside of her
and that he could have had her child. He had
children with a bunch of women throughout the relationship that
he wasn't as open with as he was with Cassie.
You know, I think that probably had to hit on
so many levels. I can't even imagine the torture. I
(18:04):
don't think there are enough drugs that could make me
go to sleep at night after that. For Cassie, I
think that she's being able to liberate herself as time continues.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Potentially, we heard Cassie testify that it was her husband
Alex who stopped her from all of the thoughts of
suicide that she had that she even wanted. She said,
I believe on the stand she wanted to walk out
in traffic and literally just have a bus or a
car and everything, And it was her husband who pulled
her back from that those suicidal thoughts. I'm curious about
(18:37):
your reaction to that and your experience and other bandmates
experience the power he had over so many people that
it actually could contribute to you feeling like you wanted
to end your life. And was that shocking to you?
Do you relate at all to.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
How completely related? I've had many times where I've felt
that way. What it is is not you know what
the deeds done were, to what level the deeds were
done to you, because we all have experienced different levels
with this man, not even just with this man in general.
Let's just make it a broad conversation. It's the it's
(19:21):
the disposable part that makes you want to go. It's
the being so easily disposed of. I'm an artist that
put my whole life into this. You signed me, I
worked my ass off, I've got platinum records and I
didn't see a penny and now I'm driving an uber
(19:43):
and getting laughed at because someone recognized me on the internet.
That's somebody's story. That type of pain and knowing that
you were able to work so hard to achieve levels
that are almost that most people don't even get to
experience of accolades, and it all shows should be a
(20:03):
financial compensation because it's not easy to do the things
that we were doing, and we were worked to death.
There's literally like an episode of Making the Band where
one of the tasks was you're not sleeping for three
days and it can you handle it? That's how the
industry is. Let me tell you something. I've till my
band member, one of my band members who I went
(20:24):
on to move forward with in a group as a duet.
Her name is Shannon. Until one day Shannon turned to
me and said, hey, Obs. Because we'd go throughout the
day and I'd just be putting out fires, handling shit.
She would sit and have pleasantries with Starbucks person. She'd
sit and talk about the guy that was at the
theater that we were playing at that night, there's a
(20:45):
brick that Kurt Cobain signed in Wow, the history of this.
And I'd be like, Shannon, there are eight million problems.
We've got to do this, this, this, And She's like, listen,
at some point, we have to have enjoyment. You are
so still trained under that Diddy hand, and before Diddy,
through my childhood, I had the same type of hand,
which is why I think it made it so easy
(21:06):
for me to have the type of conversation that I
was having in front of the world with him. I've
been trained to handle people like that. When I was
called a bitch or been body shamed or whatever the
fuck hat was happening at that time, all the time
I took it as I'd walk out of the room
and be like, Okay, watch, I'm gonna come back and
(21:27):
do it ten times better. I never went out of
the room and was like.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
No.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
I did those moments for other things, but not when
I was challenged. When I was challenged, I accepted the
challenge like I did in my childhood. I one upped it.
So those types of personalities happened to fall into this
type of pattern of grooming very comfortably.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
You mentioned grooming, though, remind us of your ages. What
age range were you in when you were working with it.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
I have to look back, like two thousand and four,
I believe we started filming. It wouldn't have very until
two thousand and five. I know that I wasn't of
drinking age because I was. I was like reprimanded that
I was. Everyone was older than me. I was a baby,
even though people had about their age. So it's maybe
not it won't look like that, but I was the
baby of the group. I'm the only child of the
group as well, so I actually thought they were my
real sisters in real life. I didn't understand that that
(22:18):
wasn't how everybody looked at it until much later.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Was that sixteen seventy What were you two thousand and
four I'm sorry, I'm not good on the math right now.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
No, no, but don't bring up my old ass. S Well,
I was young enough to where I was pulled out
of scenes with liquor.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
Okay, are you do you look back at that time
now and after we all heard Cansie's testimony, do you
look back on it and feel in some way you
were being groomed for what? Don't know, but did you
feel like there was a manipulation going on? They qualified
as grooming?
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Yeah, we just we discussed it in the last episode.
It's the walking to get cheesecake. It's the for us
because that dub band was a little bit different than
Danity Kine. Danity Kine is a girl group and we're
selling that's what girl groups are considered to be doing,
and so for us, it was tiny costumes, big heels.
(23:11):
I mean, listen. We would do an entire passes of
our show and Diddy would come up upon pull me
aside and be like, you have sweat everywhere, And I
was like, well, we just did a full blown hour
of like full blown agraphy. We didn't just stand there
and sing, ever, and we were expected to sing live.
That's a five part harmony, and the biography goes on
(23:33):
a different count than the vocals, so it's a NonStop
thought process, and being very good at doing all of
those things, not like the girls do nowadays twerking that's
not technically dancing. Dancing was something different back in my day,
and we actually had to do very intricate things. So
with that being said, like it was difficult, and I
would sweat. I'm somebody that sweats more than probably most
(23:54):
of the girls in the group. I'm a sweater. I
always get those pit stains. I probably need botox or
whatever that you get inside of there, but I would
get that, and he'd be like, you're a mess, Like
you need to clean yourself up and this can't happen again.
Like I was like trying to figure out how to
do a show and not sweat so I could make
him happy, because he wasn't He wasn't impressed with the
(24:15):
way I looked when the show was over, and how
I started looking halfway through. That's when I got into
like full blown wigs, because you can't you don't end
up with damp hair at the end of an hour
of full blown you know, you know, a full blown
hour show if you've got a wig on, because it
doesn't drench like your natural scalp touching your hair.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Would It's so interesting how I'm sure non shocked and
unsurprised you were when we heard Cassie talk about just
him directing these freak offs and how everything it mattered
how she looked and it didn't matter how she felt.
She talked about vomiting. Yeah, and because of the drugs
(24:56):
she had to be on to stay up for as
many as four days straight.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Said last time. Kids in his girls, young girls in
the courtroom learning about how Daddy liked to smack it
and whip it and roll it around. It's all about
what is good for his image, his visual his optics.
Whoever has to be sacrificed along the way, got to
(25:21):
take the move. It's what he wants and it's what
his optics require, and even down to potentially his own
family is operating within that type of in my opinion, coercion.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
My goodness, and so none of that testimony.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
Would you want your daughters in a courtroom if you
had done freaky things like would you want your daughter
knowing any would you ask the people around you to
ask her to please step out, even if she was
like begging to be there and defend father.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Being Some of my texts to roboc for the same reason. No,
you make a point. You do always feel like you
want to protect your case, certainly from your own bad
behavior or something that's could be that's not even bad behavior.
You don't want you kids to know about.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Your kings, correct, don't you think? Don't you think that's
telling disturbing?
Speaker 1 (26:12):
You find that very telling of him.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
It's beyond telling. It's showing me and the the alex
fine move that they made. It's showing me that this
man isn't hasn't learned yet, still hasn't learned what we're
all trying to get him to learn.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Now, you said earlier to Robot he said nothing, and
you paused. She says, anything you heard from Cassie and
her testimony surprised you? You said, no, I just want
to ask about something in particular. Are you not surprised
when you hear her describe how he raped her? He actually,
she says he sexually assaulted her.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
Do you remember the word she used? Do you guys
have any dictation of it.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
I don't remember the word. I just remember this was
supposed to be and it seemed like it was a.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Cordial ways and then he can her house and then
did she describe anything?
Speaker 1 (27:03):
What did she say? On top of her living room?
She said she cried throughout and he doesn't even think
he recognized that she was crying. And also said, I
think that his eyes were black, so he was on drugs. Unrecognizable.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
He went to the black eyes where he's probably on drugs.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Could you tell when did he was on drugs and
when he wasn't.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
He has a look that is very specific. When that
you would you would probably some would describe it as
like devilish, like you can't see a soul in the eyes.
There's only three people that I just couldn't find their
soul in their eyes. And I'm an aquarian, I'm an impath.
I like to connect with people. I am like a
(27:50):
very in tune girl that likes to feel people's eyes
and their presence and their souls. There's only three people
that I could not find the soul in it's it's
a scary thing to see. It's a scary thing to see.
I can't imagine sleeping next to it. I can't imagine
loving it. I can't imagine wanting to please it. There's
(28:13):
if there's nothing there to connect with and you can't
see anything in the eyes, and that's what you and
that's somebody that you love. Because like I said, it's
not all bad. It wasn't all bad for Cassie either.
She clearly isn't going to go on She's not here
to go on the stand and tell you about all
the good days. People are pointing out good days as
if that's disputing anything that she's told us was a
(28:34):
bad day. This trial isn't about talking about the good days,
so that's not what anyone is focused on. But at
the end of the day, whether even some are consensual
or not, it is very clear that abuse was occurring there.
It is very clear that that grooming and that coercion
was occurring. It is very clear that that you know,
(28:55):
she was being paid as an artist and on payroll,
but she stopped making albums early on because the sex
parties became her full time job. So what was the
payment that was coming when there were no more nine
albums to release?
Speaker 1 (29:09):
The idea that he was capable of raping someone right,
you know, again, you've had experience with him and know
him in certain ways, but that's still not and it's
an allegation at this point that she's making.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
It's an allegation that she's making. I want to just
also point out it's an allegation that a whole lot
of people have made. Do we know the count on
the civil suits at this.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Point, we lost count now long ago, so for me.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
That many civil suits. And by the way, I stayed
super neutral on this topic when I first heard it,
that was you know, that was something that I can't have.
I don't have any first hand knowledge obviously on that day,
and I don't know anyone that was there because there
was nobody there, So that was never gossip. That was
(29:54):
never in the streets. That was never So that's just
between the two. So I stayed neutral on that one
specific thing when I read all of her case. However,
when all of the things that came after, I have
to start to wonder, this is a whole lot of
people that are willing to make up very extreme detailed
(30:17):
stories if they're not truths these and then to bring
lawyers and all of that. Like, yeah, I get that
you see a settlement, you think maybe you can get one,
and maybe some people are dumb enough to go that route.
But this is a very serious thing. These are very
serious allegations, and there are so many of them. It
would be hard to assume that that many people are
(30:42):
full blown lying about every single detail of their lives.
Like that's kind of hectic to suggest that. So it's
hard to just be like right in the middle, I'm
leaning a bit.
Speaker 4 (30:53):
Yeah, we know that obviously when we're hearing some of
the cross examination that's coming at Cassie from the defense attorneys.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
You know, she even openly admitted that she even after
what she called rape, the rape happened, she claimed she
did have consensual sex with him another time after that.
And sometimes people people look at that and say, come on,
And if you're in a relationship, you know, come on,
what do you say to those people who are now
questioning the credibility of whether or not she was actually raped,
(31:34):
given the fact that she was, she was ending the
relationship with him, but that she then had consensual sex
with him afterwards.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
It's all a very long weaved narrative of grooming a
young girl that just would do anything to be have
that those personal time moments with you, even if it
involved some people you didn't know it was their secret,
proposed it to her as like introducing her into his mind.
(32:03):
In the very beginning, you hear her say I didn't
want to say know or bring up specific things that
he was requesting that were really uncomfortable and weird, like
describing her body to an escort, like the game plan
of how each freak off work, and that she felt uncomfortable.
But she never wanted to say it because she didn't
want to make him feel he was weird, because she
loved him so much and she didn't want him to
(32:25):
think like he gave her a personal I almost could
see the conversation in my head because I just know
how this works so well. He opened her up and
to his personal secrets. She got to know the personal
secrets of Diddy. You feel like all kinds of things,
like maybe you could help. Some girls are fixers, you know,
(32:46):
there's all kinds of things that go on in a
woman's mind when a man has captured your heart. You know,
it gets a bit hectic. There are ways that we compromise.
Cassie's been saying it, like I want to come forward
and admit to all of these things that were wrong
that weren't okay. That are embarrassing because I want to
be honest for once, and you know, for at this
point in my life, and tell the full truth about
(33:09):
all the things that she was doing in a younger
age that she now believes was absolutely you know criminal.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
When's the last time you talked to Cassie? And when
this is all over and you're able to, will you
reach out to her.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
I don't want to answer the first question. The second
question is no, I don't. My way of of anything
that I could ever do for Cassie would just be
to stand up publicly and defender. I think I was
the first person to do it for a few days
(33:51):
of crickets. I asked my band members to chime in.
So the only thing I could do was just defend.
And also, like you know, in a lawsuit, like I said,
you don't talk about the good days. You don't talk
about the days where you maybe wanted it, or you
maybe acted like you wanted it in order to make
(34:12):
them not leave you or go do it with somebody else,
because you craved there at that moment, in that personal
time with them so much like of course that I
understood both sides of I understood both the moments. I
knew what would be brought against her, And I think
that people have to be able to not take one
(34:34):
set of text messages or one of these events and
turn it into a broad understanding of the overall picture.
We're hearing one person's story about what it looks like
to have been somebody that was in his in his
(34:56):
what is it like right in front of you and
his visibility in his eye? Somebody that he wanted. There's
going to it will continue on. There's eight weeks and
we're on day what four? It's gotten pretty hectic for
four days. Do they've proven one charge for sure already?
Speaker 1 (35:12):
How have you which one moved?
Speaker 3 (35:14):
The transportation of.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
Constitution?
Speaker 3 (35:18):
Is that a transportation of PROCESSUS traffic, not trafficking? There's
three there's a charge that it's like transport of sexual workers.
That charge has been proven. I think I believe sexual
trafficking has been proven. These text messages are going to
make it a little more difficult for the jury to understand.
I don't love eight men. I'm being told by my
(35:39):
people in the courtroom that these aren't Some of these
men aren't giving jackhammer and a construction belt man some
of them are giving their their sensitive So I don't know.
As a very jaded woman at forty one that's been
around of a bunch of very disgusting men for a
very long history in the industry, I don't trust it
(36:01):
at all. So you one of them is bound to
fuck up. You think a man in a room, are
you sidebar because you're a man ay a man in
a room or deciding something that's very serious to you,
are you going to trust that?
Speaker 2 (36:14):
I mean, it just takes one. It just takes one
to hang the joey.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
So would you trust it? No? Thank you?
Speaker 1 (36:21):
But you that increases concern about maybe an acquittal because
of how many men you think they will be sympathetic
in some way to him.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
I don't think an acquittal. I think it would be
hung and I think that one charge. I think he'll
for sure get one charge. Right now, as of day four,
we have two months to go. I think one thing
has absolutely been proven. I think the other has been proven.
But some of my friends are arguing otherwise. The cross
is not as crossy as I thought it would be.
(36:50):
I'm I'm like sad and glad because I don't want
Cassie to ever be brutalized anymore ever again, But also
kind of sad that they didn't go a little harder
like the lawyer with Harvey Weinstein did. Like you, I
was hoping that they would make the mistake of being
overly aggressive with her, and it sounds like and it
(37:13):
sounds like they didn't.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
So you know, I heard someone one reporter were talking
about this morning described it as almost two friends being
cordial in conversation, and that was incredible to see.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
I do have smart, it's smart, strategic, it's strategic.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
I do have the charges here we're talking about. So
it's one racketeering conspiracy, two charges of sex trafficking and
then the two you were talking about transportation to engage
in prostitution.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
That's been proven, was the other. Transportation has been proven?
The sex trafficking, I feel it has, but you got
to prove force and coercion. Some of those text messages
are going to make people doubt what they heard on
day two, which day two was much stronger day one.
Speaker 4 (37:51):
It was.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
It was a slower start for me, and the defense
had an incredible opening. This Day two picked up for
the prosecution in my opinion, But yeah, I think that like,
we're very early on in this, so right now, this
is this is the framework. This is establishing a character,
This is establishing the way that people would just do
(38:15):
anything that he said. That's how encompassing his power and
presence was like, I don't know, go to Brooklyn and
get cheesecake, or run around Central Park till you see
your friends drop.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
Look, I am.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
I can't wait till we have Babs on. I'm gonna
have her come for you, eat you up. I will.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
But I watched back, and I watched I remember her,
and I watched every episode of the show, and we're
all complicit in your point. I watched with I was entertained.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
Was Dave Chappelle made a whole skit of it.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
But I was horrified at times, But for the most part,
I was like, Oh, I did nothing took away from
Diddy for me? And what Obviously I'm a huge fan.
That was right in my lane, and I absolutely have
just been in awe of his and his accomplishments. But
what do you do when you hear a Diddy song? Now,
(39:14):
how do you take it?
Speaker 3 (39:15):
I don't listen, but let me ask you. Let me
ask you this. Okay, name me a Diddy song, And
hold on, name me a Diddy song where there isn't
a feature of a big artist that you love.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Just name one, just a.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
Solo of him. I remember the album, but I'm trying
to think of one that didn't have I think it
was right around when he became ditty again he released.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
Something I just hear you babbling? Or did you come
up with?
Speaker 2 (39:42):
No?
Speaker 1 (39:43):
I am looking for But to the point, his hands
were on everything.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
No.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
To the point is his hands were on all the
publishing masters and ownership of all of the people that
he stepped on to move up. But you still can't
name me a Diddy song without a very big celebrity feature,
or come up somebody who ended up being very big.
(40:07):
But all the songs that we love, all the hits,
all the things that you would play, are also featuring
somebody else.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
You don't consider those Diddy songs necessarily the right.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
So is that what a Diddy song would be?
Speaker 2 (40:18):
A did he do?
Speaker 3 (40:19):
You want to tell me? He's his accomplishments and the
grandeur of all that he's accomplished as an artist. I'm
going to need to hear you name a song and
not just if I asked you Beyonce songs, you'd be
rolling them off your tongue. You're giving him legendary iconic
status like that, but you can't name a song, artists
(40:39):
or who built that entire corporation the artist. There were
the ones in the nineties, and then after that there
were all of them making the band kids.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
Nothing about that I would argue. And how he's gone
about and building his success. I'm not going to argue
that at all. But it sounds like you you're taking
away or you don't think we should hold him up
the way we have as a kid. It came from
the streets and ended up where he was.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
I don't suggest that you shouldn't. Yeah, I don't suggest
that you shouldn't. I'm not going to tell people how
to feel about people they like. That's not my concern
or my business. I'm just wanting to make a point
as somebody that does potentially feel that way, Please take
a second to think about just his own name as
an artist, without anyone else propping it up, without anyone
(41:26):
else giving credibility or talent to the song, just on
his own merits. If you can't name a ton of
songs like we can with everybody else, Jay Z, Beyoncey,
all the big people, then maybe we should be careful
about the ways in which we see him in regards
to you know, this incredible iconic artist, music, mogul, all
(41:49):
these things. He was a man that knew how to
choose the right people. And by the right people, I
mean man, They're sure were a lot of us that
never saw any payment. He chose people, and he sure
knew how to choose people that would get into the
freak offs and all because they loved him. He knew how.
(42:12):
When I was talking with my bandmate about this entire situation,
I asked her what you asked me? Did you ever
fear him enough to where you would have done X,
Y and Z? And she said no, But she said
I also think that he knew who he could get
away with that type of stuff and who he couldn't,
which is why he didn't even really know who I was,
(42:33):
because he knew it wouldn't fly with me.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
Did he does? He still have defenders that you say,
I know, you're so engaged online, so it's maybe some
stuff I don't see, But are a lot of people
out there still active in open big fans and defend
him right now.
Speaker 3 (42:48):
Yeah, I mean there are people that see him. I mean, God,
ask everybody at my hotel that recognizes me. I'm staying
at a hotel that is infamous for being Diddy's hotel,
and all kinds of things I'm sure went on at
that hotel, including music videos and campaigns and also maybe
other things hers, but the entire staff is still working there.
(43:11):
When I walked in, they were saying, man, you don't
age and things like that. And I'm looking at these
old men, like what in the food, the what? And
They're like, a guy was walking with me, tell me,
Oh my god, I remember this. I remember that. I
remember when you came through one time. I had the
biggest crush on you. Blah blah blah every single person
in that hotel, and they're telling me their opinions about
all that, and they're saying, man, I miss this person.
(43:32):
I missed that person. They named a person that I
know was assaulting people. And I was just sitting here
listening to him roll through these names in the good
old days of it, and I was thinking to myself, Man,
it must be so hard for people they consider their
memories of him to be these good old days and
this run that he had in this hole did et
this choke hold that he had on New York in general.
(43:55):
I grew up on the West Coast. I'm a POC
fan baby, so it was I didn't look at him
like that. But for the if you were talking about PUC,
I definitely would be in a joke hold. So I
can understand this is his city. So in that regard,
I think that it's very hard for people to be
able to have been so disillusioned by celebrity, to be
(44:18):
to think that everything that we could potentially be watching
and looking up to could be as fraudulent as what
we are seeing now. And by the way it is,
I've been to like three places where everybody actually was
who the fuck they say they are? Everybody else is
on some bullshit. We won't get into that now, but
if I get my own podcasts, I'm calling all you
(44:38):
motherfuckers out.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
How just remind everyone how how it went down. How
he fired you.
Speaker 3 (44:50):
I was fired was we were called in to do
a final scene h to close off the season, and
it was just like a check in and a good job.
We had just gotten off of a big tour, etc.
And we all got called into this meeting and it
took a very dark turn and he I don't even
(45:15):
know how it started, but somehow he started going at
me and he fired me the words that I've been
told multiple times, and I rewatched it. Actually, when I came,
I moved to Bali for a while to heal from
a lot of the trauma and the things that I
found myself in the beginning half of my career not
(45:39):
able to have my voice. Chakras were locked up when
I got there, I learned because I would want to
tell my truth, but my truth included conversations where people
cross paths with me, and those people are lying about
who they are, and I needed to protect their lies
(46:00):
because they're not telling anyone the truth about who they are.
So then I could never give an honest portrayal of
anything I experienced, because every single person that I have
connected paths with was doing some funny shit. And so
for me, I found myself always being roadblocked, never being
able to fully get out the truth. And I was
(46:24):
feeling like I was just living in a whole bubble
of lies, and like we've discussed headlines that can just
be thrown out there and everyone believes it. When you're
sitting at work about to do your job, people are
out here thinking you're drunk and you've got a bar
in your room. It's unfair. It is offensive to the
work that we show up and do. And what can
(46:44):
you do about it? It could be the system that's
putting those stories out. You don't know. You can't go
against the system. I've done it a few times, and
I have a whole lot of strikes through my name
and a lot of different networks. If you haven't seen
me on a show that you've always wanted to see
me on, that's the network. I don't even know how
mask Singer happened. They wanted a ditty victim so bad
(47:05):
they were willing to take that blacklist out of my
name over there.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
So you went back to watch the firing to kind
of relive it.
Speaker 3 (47:12):
So I actually from Bally, I watched it and I
just I, like I said, I have shedded the layers
of the parts of me that were so hurt and
that knew they would never see justice. And if I
was going to continue to carry that, I would have
a chip on my shoulder the size of China. So
I had to shed and unfortunately, all the things that
(47:34):
people are now recognizing were the truth. They the parts
of me that were shed and are long gone, are
the parts that needed to hear it. It means nothing
to me now except I encourage people to see that
I've been telling the truth for so long, to look
into some of the other people I talk about, Because
if you believe I'm a truth teller on one thing,
maybe you should start looking at some of the other
(47:57):
truths that I've spoken on.
Speaker 1 (47:59):
Well, the truth will keep coming, folks. We are just
getting started here with Aubury. We will continue to follow
very closely, like many of you are, what's happening in
that courtroom. But Aubury, we appreciate, We appreciate getting to
know you and giving all of us some better perspective
about a guy we've watched most of our lives and
about a trial that we're watching right now. Really, you've
(48:21):
absolutely already been wildly enlightening and we're just getting started.
Speaker 3 (48:26):
Wait till we get to the urination.
Speaker 1 (48:29):
Yeah, that's a good tease.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
That's a hell of a tease.
Speaker 1 (48:32):
Next episode, Urine. We'll see you next time.
Speaker 3 (48:34):
Folks,
Amy and TJ presents Aubrey O Day covering the Diddy Trial.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Welcome everyone to Amy and TJ Presents Aubrey O Day.
I'm Amy Robock alongside my partner TJ Holmes, and we
have Aubrey with us to talk about what's going on
with the Sean Diddy Coombs trial. And Aubrey certainly has
perspective like no one else.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Absolutely, But we're going to get into some of the
details from of course the star witness, Cassie Venturer. But
can you just give me your initial impression because so
many of us have heard this testimony and your jaws
are dropped, But give me your impression of what we've
heard so far and how she's doing. We'll get into
some details, but just initial impression of how she's done.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Initial impression from what I'm able to read in the
transcripts and from people that I have giving the information
in court is it feels very honest. It feels very open, vulnerable, horrific.
Sometimes I hear her discuss things that she did then
(01:10):
and how now she would never she understands it differently,
and that makes me feel like so happy for her
that she's come, you know, because I don't know her
as a mom, so like to understand that she made
that evolution and went to the other side of viewing
all of it made me feel like really proud of her.
(01:31):
It's horrific that it's horrific that she had to go
through go through so much. You know, there was one
part of the testimony that was so telling. It's not
even anything anyone's really touching on, but there was a
transcript that I read that went something like like, you know,
(01:53):
I don't really or can we talk? I wanted to
bring something up to you and he's like, okay, yeah,
you know you don't want to do the freak out now.
You so predictable. That's a very It's a statement that
groomers make if you've ever dated anyone that doesn't really
love you and is like abusive usually and pushing you
(02:14):
into things. It doesn't even have to be sexual. It
could be anything they want you to do. It's like
almost training a child, right like, oh, you want to
bring up this? You so predictable, like you just like
the rest of them. And then you get that feeling
as a woman to be like no, wait, I'm not
I promise you then talk yourself back into an idea,
same way when she was brutally abused in that hallway,
(02:38):
him writing her, I'm about to get arrested. The police
are here. They've already testified to the fact that there
was no arrest and there was no police arresting him.
That was to get her to come back.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
That control, it's.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Control, coercion, it's grooming. It's all pieces of many things
that make me really understand how much manipulation was involved
in getting her to activate the emotions that he wanted
her to project.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Aubrey. So many of us who have been listening to
Cassie's testimony have been shocked. I mean, we had heard
like just general details about what she might say, but
to actually hear her go into descriptive detail about what
she says she experienced over a decade. Was there anything
she said in these last several days of testimony that
(03:33):
surprised you, that shocked you? No, Wow, What was the
hardest thing to hear from her?
Speaker 3 (03:48):
That she felt so loved in his company, and she
felt he made her feel unlike anyone else, and so
she would do these things because it was the only
time and chance that she got to really spend in
(04:09):
that feeling that was That was a hard listen because
I think any woman that's ever cared for somebody that
may not have that ability or desire to, has pandered
in one way or another, whether it's a sex party
or bringing themselves down to certain levels that no woman
(04:34):
should have to emotionally saying things, utilizing whatever tool any
woman finds herself having as valuable or has been told
because yet to remember, women see ourselves through the projection
of men. You know, since we're young kids, since we're
young girls, we're kind of groomed into these social ideas
and norms. I mean, should I just turn forty one
(04:55):
and people are saying to me, oh, so you didn't
want kids, Well, I honestly, I'm just getting to age
where I'm finally free from a lot of chaos and
could start thinking about that. I realize that that's troubling
for everybody else because it's geriatric and whatever all the
titles are, But actually, yeah, I do. I've always wanted kids,
but the answer has already decided for me when somebody
comes to me. There's so many social norms that women
(05:18):
just accept, and in that instance, I just know that
I know what it feels like to year and after
somebody that I really loves attention. And there probably were
a lot of ways that I have compromised. No, let
me not say probably. There are many ways that I
have compromised myself. Not in the same ways as Cassie necessarily,
(05:40):
but I don't judge her compromise. A compromise is a compromise.
When you compromise yourself, you're doing the same damage. It
really doesn't matter in what area, it's all the same.
That knowledge of understanding how we compromise for people's love
is something I believe that will resonate just with everybody.
(06:01):
It certainly had me going through all my relationships like, wow,
I thought this relationship was something like this, and I've
always narrated it and believed it to be so. But
as I start to think about it, there were times
that I yearned for this person's attention, and there were
there were ways that I was not true to myself
(06:25):
in order to get it. And it's because of all
kinds of things for me, you know, a bad childhood,
not ever feeling like anyone would fight for me. I
don't have a mom and dad or anyone to call,
and because I spent from my young days to forty
one being in this industry, I didn't It's not like
(06:47):
I made a good friend like a group of girlfriends
while while my friends were doing that in their twenties
and thirties, I was uber famous. So it's not like
I have this group of friends that I even go to.
So it's it's just a I don't know. That was
the part of the testimony that really like stood out
(07:09):
to me as being as really making me recall a
lot of times that I have done that.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
I don't know if you saw us both react, We
looked at each other because we were I think we
both got tears in our eyes reporting on that this week,
that was the moment that was most chillingest to hear
all the horror, but for her to say the highlight
of a freak off was she just enjoys spending time
with him. That was that was tough.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
That jumped out at us too. So when you said that,
we both said, Wow, we had the exact same react.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
And remember what I said to you last time, There's
nobody else that I would want to revisit more than him.
When he is proud of you and when he gives
you his attention and thinks that you're great, and if
you notice. In her testimony, she says, I don't know
what the first freak off was. I was drugged. It
was weird. I felt dirty, I felt embarrassed, but then
(07:58):
he was really proud of me, and so I felt good.
I understand all of those emotions in regards to that man.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
It's so it's something so many of us can.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Okay, help us with And how does it play into
the story? We a lot of us didn't know it.
She was nineteen when they met. He kissed her, she said,
he testified at a birthday party. She said was unwanted.
At the time. She wasn't comfortable with the idea of
dating him. What do you make of I don't know
if you knew that story already, But what do you
make of hearing that and how it now played into
(08:34):
I guess the rest of their relationship.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
I think it would probably be very You know, I've
dated somebody in a very compromising state and position that
wasn't necessarily fully open to the world, and so I
kind of had to play along with whatever the narratives were.
And there's an exhilaration there. The lifestyle that did he
live is so extreme in every way. I think that
(09:06):
that could have been There could have been like an
excitement there. There could have been a fear. There could
have been like, you know, butterflies in your stomach when
somebody that powerful wants to experience you in that way.
I don't know how she testified to feeling about it.
I think she just was like, WHOA, that happened? Like
(09:29):
I didn't see that it was bad or good in
the testimony. I'm not sure if I missed something, but
I think it probably it probably made her feel that,
like of everybody around, he wanted her, which maybe made
her feel like she was very special.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
You've talked about all the people around Diddy who were
there to make sure he had his every need met.
When you heard Cassie testify about all the people who
supplied the drugs, the baby oil, who all had to
be a part of creating these freakouts, or at least
(10:08):
the ambiance around them. The lighting had to be correct,
the hotel rooms had to be.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
Very ditty, very scorpio, very visual.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Were Yes, were you aware? Like I know that you
said you weren't surprised by your testimony, But did everyone
know that this was all going on, that these freakoffs
and these sex parties were happening, And apparently there had
to have been so many bottles of these of this
baby oil around that. I mean, that was a big
headline obviously early on. But you start hearing about just
(10:37):
how much and why he wanted it, and was that
all common knowledge?
Speaker 3 (10:41):
So I never witnessed a big room of baby oil
in my time there, but on set we were to
be lathered and shining. You know, they always used either
baby oil later on down the line. All of oil
spray can make you like shine, shimmer To me, I
(11:02):
still use it when I do photo shoots because it
was a great tool to learn during my time in
the beginning making music videos. And when you shine, it
looks better on camera to me. All of that plays
into these visual aesthetics that were pleasing enough for him
to be sitting in the corner and jacking off to it.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
You know, I haven't heard somebody put you made a
good point. I hadn't thought about in all these videos.
It wasn't just think it's a part. Yes, it's a
part of sex, and maybe they're slipping and slid and
having a good time. Do you think but you're saying
it'sduction value to it that I hadn't.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Thought about it, that he was almost creating his own pornow.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Yes, he also made music videos all the time. I mean,
this is a man that lived and breathed in the
creative space and produced albums and records and music videos
and all of the above. I mean he would come
on set whether we had a full blown direc and
everything else, and when he got on set, if he
wanted everything a whole different way, that's what had to happen.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Okay. And so to that point, we heard Cassie talk
about and she said even a facial expression, the wrong
face could set him off into alien.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
That's absolutely accurate. You saw that, Yes, experienced it many times.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
It was directed at you.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
It was on camera. You can watch making the band
and see a few moments where just a face created
a reaction that was abusive.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Did you always in an argument or back and forth
like that, get to some point where you felt physically
threatened after seeing something like that. If everybody wasn't in
the room and it was just YouTube, maybe it would
have felt a little different, but it felt physically intimidating. Yes,
would everybody have that experience who's been around him?
Speaker 3 (12:54):
No, because he wasn't interested in everybody. There were people
in my band that he didn't really spend much time
even learning their names.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Sometimes I'm curious. I was kind of impressed actually at
how much you pushed back with him.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Yeah, that was not something that anyone in my group did.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
So that was what I was going to ask. Were
you a I mean, you ended up getting pushed out
of the band because of him.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
Fired on national television and blamed for the entire demise
of not only Danity Kane, but the series that was
on for seven seasons on making the band on the
biggest network at the time that everyone fell in love
with and to this day, if you look it up,
it's aubry O Dat's fault.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
And would you say that that was because you stood
up to him, You said what you wanted. You actually
were speaking your truth and he didn't like that.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
I think that as things come out, and when I'm
not exclusive, that you will be able to read documents
that suggest exactly what his problem with me was and
exactly what he wanted me to do or I was
not needed.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Cassie's husband has been sitting in the courtroom listening to
all of this. I couldn't imagine doing so. I think
he had to walk out at certain points when she
described a she said he allegedly raped her, that he did.
Just what's your take on him. I don't know if
you know him. I've been around him at all. But
(14:32):
take on her having to do this in front of
her now husband that she's about to have a child with.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
I think the response of people online is disgusting in
that regard, saying like, oh, what man would want? He
must be memes of an embarrassed guy or whatever. God
it makes me sick seeing people interpret it like that
because I don't think there's anyone on earth that loved
her more. She was able to finally get away from
(14:58):
all of that that she was in because she fell
in love with her trainer. That did He got her.
That's who Alex Fine is. He probably showed her a gentle, soft,
kind love. He probably mirrored back to her, because that's
what we do as partners, right, That's why you stop
loving sometimes a partner that you're with contractually in front
(15:18):
of the world or not, you stop being able to
mirror back something that you want to see, and then
all of a sudden, you go to work one day
and somebody's mirroring you and you feel kind of good
and you kind of like yourself again, and you think
you're neat and they think you're neat. We are mirrors
for each other. Personal relationships are simply, in my opinion,
(15:39):
necessary for sure, because it's the only person that you're
getting that vulnerable with, potentially physically fully physically giving your
body to. They're an absolute mirror to you. When you
do things that are not kind or good or questionable,
they mirror back a response to you, and you have
to see yourself. If you don't have any relationships like that,
(16:00):
you're never learning or growing and you have nothing to observe.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
That's that's actually an excellent point.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
I didn't know people were clowning him online for being
in the court room. Actually I haven't seen that.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Don't go on X.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
He's yeah, we try to avoid that actually, at all
at all costs.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
Yeah, so do I. But I think he's proud of her.
I think he loves her so much. I don't think
he's getting her. Yeah, he's there yeah. I mean when
anyone that has anything negative to say about that, I
think he has heartbroken. I think he probably wants to
fuck up Puff. He probably is holding himself back from
jumping over the table, as any man that loves their
wife should. I think it is tense. The more tense
(16:38):
interaction that I was very curious of is with Puff
because it's been spoken about as common knowledge amongst people
that are in the scene and around that situation that
it was rough losing Cassie for him, and with Kim
(16:59):
being gone, this would likely be the only other person
that had these that maybe he loved and claimed in
front of the world like he did Kim. There's not
a ton of women that he's like openly claimed for
very long periods of time. And I think like he
probably was sitting in front of somebody that he loved
(17:20):
most in the lane of girlfriend and you know, beyond
Kim porter, and then also somebody that he probably hates
the most in life because she's potentially he sees her
as responsible for being the demise of his entire existence.
And I thought the dynamics of also him knowing that
(17:43):
that could have been the baby that's inside of her
and that he could have had her child. He had
children with a bunch of women throughout the relationship that
he wasn't as open with as he was with Cassie.
You know, I think that probably had to hit on
so many levels. I can't even imagine the torture. I
(18:04):
don't think there are enough drugs that could make me
go to sleep at night after that. For Cassie, I
think that she's being able to liberate herself as time continues.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Potentially, we heard Cassie testify that it was her husband
Alex who stopped her from all of the thoughts of
suicide that she had that she even wanted. She said,
I believe on the stand she wanted to walk out
in traffic and literally just have a bus or a
car and everything, And it was her husband who pulled
her back from that those suicidal thoughts. I'm curious about
(18:37):
your reaction to that and your experience and other bandmates
experience the power he had over so many people that
it actually could contribute to you feeling like you wanted
to end your life. And was that shocking to you?
Do you relate at all to.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
How completely related? I've had many times where I've felt
that way. What it is is not you know what
the deeds done were, to what level the deeds were
done to you, because we all have experienced different levels
with this man, not even just with this man in general.
Let's just make it a broad conversation. It's the it's
(19:21):
the disposable part that makes you want to go. It's
the being so easily disposed of. I'm an artist that
put my whole life into this. You signed me, I
worked my ass off, I've got platinum records and I
didn't see a penny and now I'm driving an uber
(19:43):
and getting laughed at because someone recognized me on the internet.
That's somebody's story. That type of pain and knowing that
you were able to work so hard to achieve levels
that are almost that most people don't even get to
experience of accolades, and it all shows should be a
(20:03):
financial compensation because it's not easy to do the things
that we were doing, and we were worked to death.
There's literally like an episode of Making the Band where
one of the tasks was you're not sleeping for three
days and it can you handle it? That's how the
industry is. Let me tell you something. I've till my
band member, one of my band members who I went
(20:24):
on to move forward with in a group as a duet.
Her name is Shannon. Until one day Shannon turned to
me and said, hey, Obs. Because we'd go throughout the
day and I'd just be putting out fires, handling shit.
She would sit and have pleasantries with Starbucks person. She'd
sit and talk about the guy that was at the
theater that we were playing at that night, there's a
(20:45):
brick that Kurt Cobain signed in Wow, the history of this.
And I'd be like, Shannon, there are eight million problems.
We've got to do this, this, this, And She's like, listen,
at some point, we have to have enjoyment. You are
so still trained under that Diddy hand, and before Diddy,
through my childhood, I had the same type of hand,
which is why I think it made it so easy
(21:06):
for me to have the type of conversation that I
was having in front of the world with him. I've
been trained to handle people like that. When I was
called a bitch or been body shamed or whatever the
fuck hat was happening at that time, all the time
I took it as I'd walk out of the room
and be like, Okay, watch, I'm gonna come back and
(21:27):
do it ten times better. I never went out of
the room and was like.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
No.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
I did those moments for other things, but not when
I was challenged. When I was challenged, I accepted the
challenge like I did in my childhood. I one upped it.
So those types of personalities happened to fall into this
type of pattern of grooming very comfortably.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
You mentioned grooming, though, remind us of your ages. What
age range were you in when you were working with it.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
I have to look back, like two thousand and four,
I believe we started filming. It wouldn't have very until
two thousand and five. I know that I wasn't of
drinking age because I was. I was like reprimanded that
I was. Everyone was older than me. I was a baby,
even though people had about their age. So it's maybe
not it won't look like that, but I was the
baby of the group. I'm the only child of the
group as well, so I actually thought they were my
real sisters in real life. I didn't understand that that
(22:18):
wasn't how everybody looked at it until much later.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Was that sixteen seventy What were you two thousand and
four I'm sorry, I'm not good on the math right now.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
No, no, but don't bring up my old ass. S Well,
I was young enough to where I was pulled out
of scenes with liquor.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
Okay, are you do you look back at that time
now and after we all heard Cansie's testimony, do you
look back on it and feel in some way you
were being groomed for what? Don't know, but did you
feel like there was a manipulation going on? They qualified
as grooming?
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Yeah, we just we discussed it in the last episode.
It's the walking to get cheesecake. It's the for us
because that dub band was a little bit different than
Danity Kine. Danity Kine is a girl group and we're
selling that's what girl groups are considered to be doing,
and so for us, it was tiny costumes, big heels.
(23:11):
I mean, listen. We would do an entire passes of
our show and Diddy would come up upon pull me
aside and be like, you have sweat everywhere, And I
was like, well, we just did a full blown hour
of like full blown agraphy. We didn't just stand there
and sing, ever, and we were expected to sing live.
That's a five part harmony, and the biography goes on
(23:33):
a different count than the vocals, so it's a NonStop
thought process, and being very good at doing all of
those things, not like the girls do nowadays twerking that's
not technically dancing. Dancing was something different back in my day,
and we actually had to do very intricate things. So
with that being said, like it was difficult, and I
would sweat. I'm somebody that sweats more than probably most
(23:54):
of the girls in the group. I'm a sweater. I
always get those pit stains. I probably need botox or
whatever that you get inside of there, but I would
get that, and he'd be like, you're a mess, Like
you need to clean yourself up and this can't happen again.
Like I was like trying to figure out how to
do a show and not sweat so I could make
him happy, because he wasn't He wasn't impressed with the
(24:15):
way I looked when the show was over, and how
I started looking halfway through. That's when I got into
like full blown wigs, because you can't you don't end
up with damp hair at the end of an hour
of full blown you know, you know, a full blown
hour show if you've got a wig on, because it
doesn't drench like your natural scalp touching your hair.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Would It's so interesting how I'm sure non shocked and
unsurprised you were when we heard Cassie talk about just
him directing these freak offs and how everything it mattered
how she looked and it didn't matter how she felt.
She talked about vomiting. Yeah, and because of the drugs
(24:56):
she had to be on to stay up for as
many as four days straight.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Said last time. Kids in his girls, young girls in
the courtroom learning about how Daddy liked to smack it
and whip it and roll it around. It's all about
what is good for his image, his visual his optics.
Whoever has to be sacrificed along the way, got to
(25:21):
take the move. It's what he wants and it's what
his optics require, and even down to potentially his own
family is operating within that type of in my opinion, coercion.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
My goodness, and so none of that testimony.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
Would you want your daughters in a courtroom if you
had done freaky things like would you want your daughter
knowing any would you ask the people around you to
ask her to please step out, even if she was
like begging to be there and defend father.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Being Some of my texts to roboc for the same reason. No,
you make a point. You do always feel like you
want to protect your case, certainly from your own bad
behavior or something that's could be that's not even bad behavior.
You don't want you kids to know about.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Your kings, correct, don't you think? Don't you think that's
telling disturbing?
Speaker 1 (26:12):
You find that very telling of him.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
It's beyond telling. It's showing me and the the alex
fine move that they made. It's showing me that this
man isn't hasn't learned yet, still hasn't learned what we're
all trying to get him to learn.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Now, you said earlier to Robot he said nothing, and
you paused. She says, anything you heard from Cassie and
her testimony surprised you? You said, no, I just want
to ask about something in particular. Are you not surprised
when you hear her describe how he raped her? He actually,
she says he sexually assaulted her.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
Do you remember the word she used? Do you guys
have any dictation of it.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
I don't remember the word. I just remember this was
supposed to be and it seemed like it was a.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Cordial ways and then he can her house and then
did she describe anything?
Speaker 1 (27:03):
What did she say? On top of her living room?
She said she cried throughout and he doesn't even think
he recognized that she was crying. And also said, I
think that his eyes were black, so he was on drugs. Unrecognizable.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
He went to the black eyes where he's probably on drugs.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Could you tell when did he was on drugs and
when he wasn't.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
He has a look that is very specific. When that
you would you would probably some would describe it as
like devilish, like you can't see a soul in the eyes.
There's only three people that I just couldn't find their
soul in their eyes. And I'm an aquarian, I'm an impath.
I like to connect with people. I am like a
(27:50):
very in tune girl that likes to feel people's eyes
and their presence and their souls. There's only three people
that I could not find the soul in it's it's
a scary thing to see. It's a scary thing to see.
I can't imagine sleeping next to it. I can't imagine
loving it. I can't imagine wanting to please it. There's
(28:13):
if there's nothing there to connect with and you can't
see anything in the eyes, and that's what you and
that's somebody that you love. Because like I said, it's
not all bad. It wasn't all bad for Cassie either.
She clearly isn't going to go on She's not here
to go on the stand and tell you about all
the good days. People are pointing out good days as
if that's disputing anything that she's told us was a
(28:34):
bad day. This trial isn't about talking about the good days,
so that's not what anyone is focused on. But at
the end of the day, whether even some are consensual
or not, it is very clear that abuse was occurring there.
It is very clear that that grooming and that coercion
was occurring. It is very clear that that you know,
(28:55):
she was being paid as an artist and on payroll,
but she stopped making albums early on because the sex
parties became her full time job. So what was the
payment that was coming when there were no more nine
albums to release?
Speaker 1 (29:09):
The idea that he was capable of raping someone right,
you know, again, you've had experience with him and know
him in certain ways, but that's still not and it's
an allegation at this point that she's making.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
It's an allegation that she's making. I want to just
also point out it's an allegation that a whole lot
of people have made. Do we know the count on
the civil suits at this.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Point, we lost count now long ago, so for me.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
That many civil suits. And by the way, I stayed
super neutral on this topic when I first heard it,
that was you know, that was something that I can't have.
I don't have any first hand knowledge obviously on that day,
and I don't know anyone that was there because there
was nobody there, So that was never gossip. That was
(29:54):
never in the streets. That was never So that's just
between the two. So I stayed neutral on that one
specific thing when I read all of her case. However,
when all of the things that came after, I have
to start to wonder, this is a whole lot of
people that are willing to make up very extreme detailed
(30:17):
stories if they're not truths these and then to bring
lawyers and all of that. Like, yeah, I get that
you see a settlement, you think maybe you can get one,
and maybe some people are dumb enough to go that route.
But this is a very serious thing. These are very
serious allegations, and there are so many of them. It
would be hard to assume that that many people are
(30:42):
full blown lying about every single detail of their lives.
Like that's kind of hectic to suggest that. So it's
hard to just be like right in the middle, I'm
leaning a bit.
Speaker 4 (30:53):
Yeah, we know that obviously when we're hearing some of
the cross examination that's coming at Cassie from the defense attorneys.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
You know, she even openly admitted that she even after
what she called rape, the rape happened, she claimed she
did have consensual sex with him another time after that.
And sometimes people people look at that and say, come on,
And if you're in a relationship, you know, come on,
what do you say to those people who are now
questioning the credibility of whether or not she was actually raped,
(31:34):
given the fact that she was, she was ending the
relationship with him, but that she then had consensual sex
with him afterwards.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
It's all a very long weaved narrative of grooming a
young girl that just would do anything to be have
that those personal time moments with you, even if it
involved some people you didn't know it was their secret,
proposed it to her as like introducing her into his mind.
(32:03):
In the very beginning, you hear her say I didn't
want to say know or bring up specific things that
he was requesting that were really uncomfortable and weird, like
describing her body to an escort, like the game plan
of how each freak off work, and that she felt uncomfortable.
But she never wanted to say it because she didn't
want to make him feel he was weird, because she
loved him so much and she didn't want him to
(32:25):
think like he gave her a personal I almost could
see the conversation in my head because I just know
how this works so well. He opened her up and
to his personal secrets. She got to know the personal
secrets of Diddy. You feel like all kinds of things,
like maybe you could help. Some girls are fixers, you know,
(32:46):
there's all kinds of things that go on in a
woman's mind when a man has captured your heart. You know,
it gets a bit hectic. There are ways that we compromise.
Cassie's been saying it, like I want to come forward
and admit to all of these things that were wrong
that weren't okay. That are embarrassing because I want to
be honest for once, and you know, for at this
point in my life, and tell the full truth about
(33:09):
all the things that she was doing in a younger
age that she now believes was absolutely you know criminal.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
When's the last time you talked to Cassie? And when
this is all over and you're able to, will you
reach out to her.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
I don't want to answer the first question. The second
question is no, I don't. My way of of anything
that I could ever do for Cassie would just be
to stand up publicly and defender. I think I was
the first person to do it for a few days
(33:51):
of crickets. I asked my band members to chime in.
So the only thing I could do was just defend.
And also, like you know, in a lawsuit, like I said,
you don't talk about the good days. You don't talk
about the days where you maybe wanted it, or you
maybe acted like you wanted it in order to make
(34:12):
them not leave you or go do it with somebody else,
because you craved there at that moment, in that personal
time with them so much like of course that I
understood both sides of I understood both the moments. I
knew what would be brought against her, And I think
that people have to be able to not take one
(34:34):
set of text messages or one of these events and
turn it into a broad understanding of the overall picture.
We're hearing one person's story about what it looks like
to have been somebody that was in his in his
(34:56):
what is it like right in front of you and
his visibility in his eye? Somebody that he wanted. There's
going to it will continue on. There's eight weeks and
we're on day what four? It's gotten pretty hectic for
four days. Do they've proven one charge for sure already?
Speaker 1 (35:12):
How have you which one moved?
Speaker 3 (35:14):
The transportation of.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
Constitution?
Speaker 3 (35:18):
Is that a transportation of PROCESSUS traffic, not trafficking? There's
three there's a charge that it's like transport of sexual workers.
That charge has been proven. I think I believe sexual
trafficking has been proven. These text messages are going to
make it a little more difficult for the jury to understand.
I don't love eight men. I'm being told by my
(35:39):
people in the courtroom that these aren't Some of these
men aren't giving jackhammer and a construction belt man some
of them are giving their their sensitive So I don't know.
As a very jaded woman at forty one that's been
around of a bunch of very disgusting men for a
very long history in the industry, I don't trust it
(36:01):
at all. So you one of them is bound to
fuck up. You think a man in a room, are
you sidebar because you're a man ay a man in
a room or deciding something that's very serious to you,
are you going to trust that?
Speaker 2 (36:14):
I mean, it just takes one. It just takes one
to hang the joey.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
So would you trust it? No? Thank you?
Speaker 1 (36:21):
But you that increases concern about maybe an acquittal because
of how many men you think they will be sympathetic
in some way to him.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
I don't think an acquittal. I think it would be
hung and I think that one charge. I think he'll
for sure get one charge. Right now, as of day four,
we have two months to go. I think one thing
has absolutely been proven. I think the other has been proven.
But some of my friends are arguing otherwise. The cross
is not as crossy as I thought it would be.
(36:50):
I'm I'm like sad and glad because I don't want
Cassie to ever be brutalized anymore ever again, But also
kind of sad that they didn't go a little harder
like the lawyer with Harvey Weinstein did. Like you, I
was hoping that they would make the mistake of being
overly aggressive with her, and it sounds like and it
(37:13):
sounds like they didn't.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
So you know, I heard someone one reporter were talking
about this morning described it as almost two friends being
cordial in conversation, and that was incredible to see.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
I do have smart, it's smart, strategic, it's strategic.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
I do have the charges here we're talking about. So
it's one racketeering conspiracy, two charges of sex trafficking and
then the two you were talking about transportation to engage
in prostitution.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
That's been proven, was the other. Transportation has been proven?
The sex trafficking, I feel it has, but you got
to prove force and coercion. Some of those text messages
are going to make people doubt what they heard on
day two, which day two was much stronger day one.
Speaker 4 (37:51):
It was.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
It was a slower start for me, and the defense
had an incredible opening. This Day two picked up for
the prosecution in my opinion, But yeah, I think that like,
we're very early on in this, so right now, this
is this is the framework. This is establishing a character,
This is establishing the way that people would just do
(38:15):
anything that he said. That's how encompassing his power and
presence was like, I don't know, go to Brooklyn and
get cheesecake, or run around Central Park till you see
your friends drop.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
Look, I am.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
I can't wait till we have Babs on. I'm gonna
have her come for you, eat you up. I will.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
But I watched back, and I watched I remember her,
and I watched every episode of the show, and we're
all complicit in your point. I watched with I was entertained.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
Was Dave Chappelle made a whole skit of it.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
But I was horrified at times, But for the most part,
I was like, Oh, I did nothing took away from
Diddy for me? And what Obviously I'm a huge fan.
That was right in my lane, and I absolutely have
just been in awe of his and his accomplishments. But
what do you do when you hear a Diddy song? Now,
(39:14):
how do you take it?
Speaker 3 (39:15):
I don't listen, but let me ask you. Let me
ask you this. Okay, name me a Diddy song, And
hold on, name me a Diddy song where there isn't
a feature of a big artist that you love.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Just name one, just a.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
Solo of him. I remember the album, but I'm trying
to think of one that didn't have I think it
was right around when he became ditty again he released.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
Something I just hear you babbling? Or did you come
up with?
Speaker 2 (39:42):
No?
Speaker 1 (39:43):
I am looking for But to the point, his hands
were on everything.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
No.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
To the point is his hands were on all the
publishing masters and ownership of all of the people that
he stepped on to move up. But you still can't
name me a Diddy song without a very big celebrity feature,
or come up somebody who ended up being very big.
(40:07):
But all the songs that we love, all the hits,
all the things that you would play, are also featuring
somebody else.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
You don't consider those Diddy songs necessarily the right.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
So is that what a Diddy song would be?
Speaker 2 (40:18):
A did he do?
Speaker 3 (40:19):
You want to tell me? He's his accomplishments and the
grandeur of all that he's accomplished as an artist. I'm
going to need to hear you name a song and
not just if I asked you Beyonce songs, you'd be
rolling them off your tongue. You're giving him legendary iconic
status like that, but you can't name a song, artists
(40:39):
or who built that entire corporation the artist. There were
the ones in the nineties, and then after that there
were all of them making the band kids.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
Nothing about that I would argue. And how he's gone
about and building his success. I'm not going to argue
that at all. But it sounds like you you're taking
away or you don't think we should hold him up
the way we have as a kid. It came from
the streets and ended up where he was.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
I don't suggest that you shouldn't. Yeah, I don't suggest
that you shouldn't. I'm not going to tell people how
to feel about people they like. That's not my concern
or my business. I'm just wanting to make a point
as somebody that does potentially feel that way, Please take
a second to think about just his own name as
an artist, without anyone else propping it up, without anyone
(41:26):
else giving credibility or talent to the song, just on
his own merits. If you can't name a ton of
songs like we can with everybody else, Jay Z, Beyoncey,
all the big people, then maybe we should be careful
about the ways in which we see him in regards
to you know, this incredible iconic artist, music, mogul, all
(41:49):
these things. He was a man that knew how to
choose the right people. And by the right people, I
mean man, They're sure were a lot of us that
never saw any payment. He chose people, and he sure
knew how to choose people that would get into the
freak offs and all because they loved him. He knew how.
(42:12):
When I was talking with my bandmate about this entire situation,
I asked her what you asked me? Did you ever
fear him enough to where you would have done X,
Y and Z? And she said no, But she said
I also think that he knew who he could get
away with that type of stuff and who he couldn't,
which is why he didn't even really know who I was,
(42:33):
because he knew it wouldn't fly with me.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
Did he does? He still have defenders that you say,
I know, you're so engaged online, so it's maybe some
stuff I don't see, But are a lot of people
out there still active in open big fans and defend
him right now.
Speaker 3 (42:48):
Yeah, I mean there are people that see him. I mean, God,
ask everybody at my hotel that recognizes me. I'm staying
at a hotel that is infamous for being Diddy's hotel,
and all kinds of things I'm sure went on at
that hotel, including music videos and campaigns and also maybe
other things hers, but the entire staff is still working there.
(43:11):
When I walked in, they were saying, man, you don't
age and things like that. And I'm looking at these
old men, like what in the food, the what? And
They're like, a guy was walking with me, tell me,
Oh my god, I remember this. I remember that. I
remember when you came through one time. I had the
biggest crush on you. Blah blah blah every single person
in that hotel, and they're telling me their opinions about
all that, and they're saying, man, I miss this person.
(43:32):
I missed that person. They named a person that I
know was assaulting people. And I was just sitting here
listening to him roll through these names in the good
old days of it, and I was thinking to myself, Man,
it must be so hard for people they consider their
memories of him to be these good old days and
this run that he had in this hole did et
this choke hold that he had on New York in general.
(43:55):
I grew up on the West Coast. I'm a POC
fan baby, so it was I didn't look at him
like that. But for the if you were talking about PUC,
I definitely would be in a joke hold. So I
can understand this is his city. So in that regard,
I think that it's very hard for people to be
able to have been so disillusioned by celebrity, to be
(44:18):
to think that everything that we could potentially be watching
and looking up to could be as fraudulent as what
we are seeing now. And by the way it is,
I've been to like three places where everybody actually was
who the fuck they say they are? Everybody else is
on some bullshit. We won't get into that now, but
if I get my own podcasts, I'm calling all you
(44:38):
motherfuckers out.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
How just remind everyone how how it went down. How
he fired you.
Speaker 3 (44:50):
I was fired was we were called in to do
a final scene h to close off the season, and
it was just like a check in and a good job.
We had just gotten off of a big tour, etc.
And we all got called into this meeting and it
took a very dark turn and he I don't even
(45:15):
know how it started, but somehow he started going at
me and he fired me the words that I've been
told multiple times, and I rewatched it. Actually, when I came,
I moved to Bali for a while to heal from
a lot of the trauma and the things that I
found myself in the beginning half of my career not
(45:39):
able to have my voice. Chakras were locked up when
I got there, I learned because I would want to
tell my truth, but my truth included conversations where people
cross paths with me, and those people are lying about
who they are, and I needed to protect their lies
(46:00):
because they're not telling anyone the truth about who they are.
So then I could never give an honest portrayal of
anything I experienced, because every single person that I have
connected paths with was doing some funny shit. And so
for me, I found myself always being roadblocked, never being
able to fully get out the truth. And I was
(46:24):
feeling like I was just living in a whole bubble
of lies, and like we've discussed headlines that can just
be thrown out there and everyone believes it. When you're
sitting at work about to do your job, people are
out here thinking you're drunk and you've got a bar
in your room. It's unfair. It is offensive to the
work that we show up and do. And what can
(46:44):
you do about it? It could be the system that's
putting those stories out. You don't know. You can't go
against the system. I've done it a few times, and
I have a whole lot of strikes through my name
and a lot of different networks. If you haven't seen
me on a show that you've always wanted to see
me on, that's the network. I don't even know how
mask Singer happened. They wanted a ditty victim so bad
(47:05):
they were willing to take that blacklist out of my
name over there.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
So you went back to watch the firing to kind
of relive it.
Speaker 3 (47:12):
So I actually from Bally, I watched it and I
just I, like I said, I have shedded the layers
of the parts of me that were so hurt and
that knew they would never see justice. And if I
was going to continue to carry that, I would have
a chip on my shoulder the size of China. So
I had to shed and unfortunately, all the things that
(47:34):
people are now recognizing were the truth. They the parts
of me that were shed and are long gone, are
the parts that needed to hear it. It means nothing
to me now except I encourage people to see that
I've been telling the truth for so long, to look
into some of the other people I talk about, Because
if you believe I'm a truth teller on one thing,
maybe you should start looking at some of the other
(47:57):
truths that I've spoken on.
Speaker 1 (47:59):
Well, the truth will keep coming, folks. We are just
getting started here with Aubury. We will continue to follow
very closely, like many of you are, what's happening in
that courtroom. But Aubury, we appreciate, We appreciate getting to
know you and giving all of us some better perspective
about a guy we've watched most of our lives and
about a trial that we're watching right now. Really, you've
(48:21):
absolutely already been wildly enlightening and we're just getting started.
Speaker 3 (48:26):
Wait till we get to the urination.
Speaker 1 (48:29):
Yeah, that's a good tease.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
That's a hell of a tease.
Speaker 1 (48:32):
Next episode, Urine. We'll see you next time.
Speaker 3 (48:34):
Folks,
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