November 18, 2025 • 29 mins
As we recorded this episode, the Senate agreed to unanimous consent, sending the House passed legislation to release all of the Epstein files to President Trump’s desk for signature. Trump has already said he will sign the bill into law, as we saw Epstein victims rally on Capitol Hill today to urge lawmakers for full transparency. Amy and T.J. discuss the one lawmaker who voted against the bill - a congressman from Louisiana - and the Harvard professor who has expressed being “ashamed” at his level of friendship with Epstein in the latest round of emails released to the public.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey there, folks, it is Tuesday, November the eighth, and
what do a Harvard professor, survivors of sex abuse, and
members of Congress all have in common? Jeffrey Epstein and
welcome everybody to this episode of Amy and TJ. What
(00:23):
a day we saw in DC. Robes. It is amazing.
This man has been dead for five plus years and
continues to have an impact in this country on our politics,
on our policy, and nr on our headlines. But the
headline today is the biggest one, no doubt, Robes. Congress.
(00:43):
The House representative just said, okay, release the files.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
And there has been a dramatic change in just a
matter of hours because.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
The President changed his tunes, and.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
All of a sudden, we see all the Republicans changing
their tunes because it did take a few rogue, brave
Republicans to break rank and vote with the Democrats for
them to realize, hey, we might lose this thing. And
so look, the President, if nothing else, is a realist.
He saw the numbers, he saw where things were headed,
and he decided to be on the winning side of things.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
As we call it writing on the wall, we call
it that right. Yes, the back and forth for months
not wanting to release the files. And to think the
vote was not close, It wasn't competitive, Robes, this was
almost everybody in Congress, after all this voted to say
(01:41):
yes to releasing the files. After all, this what we're
fighting about for the past severe exactly.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
And so then you asked, Robes, why would anyone not.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Want to run to the files?
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Okay, we understand initially the president said it was to
protect the victims, and yet they were the first people
to say, oh, that victim that you guys are pointing, Yeah,
that was Virginia ju freh.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
So they actually outed one of the.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Redacted names almost immediately from some of the released emails.
And at that point, honestly, when you've got the victims themselves,
when you've got the women whose names were redacted or
whose names weren't included because they were underage, standing there
on Capitol Hill, while this vote is about to happen,
(02:25):
saying release the files, and the only argument is on
behalf of the victim's identities, you gott a pr problem
because if the victims who you're claiming that you want
to protect are saying that they want you to release
the files, that's a tough argument to continue.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
And that's what they were dealing with today, folks in Washington, DC.
So it was another Epstein day in large parts. So
your headlines today is that, yes, the House voted to
release all Epstein files. You have a big time Democrat
saying that he is ashamed of his relationship with Jeffrey
(03:06):
Epstein and saying he is going to step back from
his public roles. This is the former Harvard President Larry Summers.
And of course, as you heard Robot just mentioning there,
you had a press conference with the survivors. Let's start
what we saw late today ropes the back and forth
over months, the White House, the President has been fighting,
fighting to keep a vote from taking place for all
(03:30):
these Epstein files to be released. But sure enough they
forced the hand. They didn't have a choice. Let's be
clear today, the White House and the Speaker of the
House of Representative did not have a choice. They had
the votes at least the what they call it a
discharged position petition. We've learned a lot about how the
House of Representatives works.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yes, when your only argument is that you're protecting the
very people who are claiming they want you to release it,
it's hard to continue with that line of arguments. So yes,
the vote ended up being four hundred and twenty seven
to one.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
What was the point of what to release all the
Epstein files?
Speaker 1 (04:08):
What are we fighting about for the past several months?
Then if everybody overwhelmingly now yeple's that was unanimous, damn near.
There was one guy.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Public political pressure from the victims themselves saying please, and
they have been saying this for months now, but it
was especially effective today for them to be on Capitol
Hill saying please release these files.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Let's be clear here, this was, as we said, the
Democrats had enough votes. They had enough votes to force
a vote. They did not have to leave it up
to Speaker Johnson, but they had enough votes to force
a vote. And that's why we are where we are today.
This was not the President or Speaker Johnson saying, you
(04:55):
know what, out the goodness of our hearts, public pressure, No, no, no, no,
they had no choice. There were enough votes to force
this vote. So sure, now, as you said, Ropes, the
President got on board with this just in the past
twenty four to forty eight hours, correct saying sure, go ahead,
I don't care. And also as a part and added
bonus to this. He tried to flip the script and saying, hey,
(05:18):
this is bad for Democrats, not Republicans. Knock yourselves out,
release this stuff.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Let's look at Bill Clinton, Let's look at Larry Summers,
let's look at JP Morgan, Chase.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
He starts throwing every other name out there.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
My hunch is that perhaps maybe some of the worst
emails that he thought were going to be the most
damaging or damning emails got released in this House committee.
They were able to get some of these emails twenty
thousand plus emails from Jeffrey Epstein from that estate and
(05:50):
release them, trickle them out like day after day. So
he has been enduring day after day after day of
new headlines, new emails, can connections and ties between him
and Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
He's kind of suffered through the worst of it.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
So at this point I maybe can understand he's like,
you know what, let's just release them all because the
worst of the worst perhaps has already been released on him.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Maybe what he was fearing the most has already been released.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
There's that possibility as well, that possibility, but I mean,
truth of the matter, the man didn't have he had
no choice, there's nothing to do. So he is on board,
said he's going to sign this thing. So that freed
up a lot of people to say they don't feel
necessarily chained restricted in voting for it, because the President
(06:40):
himself has said he's on fort So sure enough, they
did this, Robes. I'm looking at this as we are
sitting here. As of this recording, the Senate has now
moved forward with releasing these files. The Senate. Now, this
was a hold up. We didn't know as we started
this record, folks, we didn't know what the Senate was
(07:01):
going to do. This bill has now been sent to
the Senate Robes, and there was a question of whether
or not they would take it up, when they would
take it up, and if they would change it at all.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
A lot of folks thought that this could happen immediately,
and I do think here is Look, this is such
a headline and such this is the empowerment of the
American public. When lawmakers, the president, congressmen and women realize
that public sentiment is squarely on one side of the fence,
they will come to us.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
They will meet us where we are.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
They don't want to be on the wrong side of
things when it comes to reelection, etc. So it's very
clear now to all lawmakers in the House, and now
it appears in the Senate that you don't want to
be on the wrong side of this one. You don't
want to be on the side of let's not release
information to the American public.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
That clears up all of this mystery that has.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Been surrounding this man and these victims for decades now cleared.
Who wouldn't be on the side of transparency. That is
hard to justify with American sentiment, where it is not
shocking that the Senate is saying, let's go ahead and
streamline this.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
So, yes, folks, as of this recording, this is happening
as we are speaking. But the Senate has unanimously voted,
they've given unanimous consent now to move that bill ahead
when they receive it. So the only hold up right now,
Robes is just them getting the thing they've already voted to.
When we receive it, We're gonna go ahead to prove
(08:30):
this thing. It could be on President Trump's desk tonight, signed, sealed, delivered,
and before the day is out, we have got a bill,
a law that is now saying the Epstein files must
be released by the DJ and robes this has Is
this gonna satisfy everybody? Finally?
Speaker 3 (08:52):
I think it will.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
You think I will know as long as we actually
get all of the files.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Yes, because that's always been the case. There's always be all.
I know, we just got twenty thousand emails we didn't
even know.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
I didn't know existing that was from the estate, but
didn't know that that was even on the table.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
What else is out there?
Speaker 2 (09:14):
So now if we now have an order to have
everything released, what else is there? Once you have everything
out in the open, there is nothing else. So I
do think this will put conspiracy theory theorists either they'll either.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
Be proven right or it'll be put to bed.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
But it is nice to at least have the information
that we've all been seeking for all these years, and
for some of these victims decades trying to get out
in the open, trying to get people to give a
shit about. And so the cool thing is people care now,
and now when you've got American public sentiment, they want
(09:53):
to know. Now, the pressure is on lawmakers, and wow,
turns out when there is pressure, they actually can act,
and they can actually act unanimously.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
You know, I'm not gonna give it. I'm not gonna
give them too much credit. This is literally Grivalda representative,
Grivalda from Arizona. They delayed and delayed and delayed swearing
her in that gave and put over the top a
number of votes to where they were. Their hand was forced.
(10:26):
This wasn't even a matter that much of I just
I hate I get it, but they did. They had
they were forced to because of the number of votes.
And that's fine. And they've come around now. That's fine.
And Dan the president has done it. He's come around now,
and he's trying a new tact. Let me try this now.
(10:47):
He is trying to turn Epstein into a Democrats problem.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Even he is the one who is named in the
majority of these emails, and it isn't good for him.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
The emails that we've seen are horrific. Why is not
not even being discussed?
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Well, it is, obviously, but he has not been accused
of anything criminal, no it related to Epstein. It just
all looks bad, it looks funky. Why not just get
this stuff out there? A lot of it's going to
be embarrassing. I am sure, and I think no one
can attest to that more than Larry Summers. Stay here, folks,
will tell you what the former Harvard president, current Harvard
(11:28):
tenured professor, and former Obama and Clinton administration officials says
now about his relationship with Epstein. What he's going to
do now now that so many emails have come out
about his relationship between him and Epstein. Also coming up,
we told you the vote was for what twenty seven
(11:49):
to one? Is that right, Ropes? It's correct, four hundred
and twenty seven to one in the House of Representatives
to release the files. Who was the one? He was
a dude from Louisiana and he is standing by that vote.
We'll let you hear his statements. Stay here, all right, folks,
(12:17):
Welcome back. We continue here. Four twenty seven to one. Robes.
They voted, and it's got to be tough and lonely
to be that one guy, right four hunch. Overwhelmingly, you'll
never see a vote like this, right on something so consequential.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
I have never seen a vote like this with these
many eyes on this vote, so many people are looking
to see who voted what way and to be lone
the lone congressman who voted no when everyone else voted yes.
And the vote is for transparency. The vote is for
the release of documents. The vote is for folks to
(12:54):
understand what we're actually dealing with when it comes to
the epstecize, would you possibly justify a no vote when
the President of the United States, who potentially has the
most to lose, yes out of anybody even him, go
ahead release the file?
Speaker 1 (13:13):
He said? Transparency, isn't it? Cole? That is the official
name of the bill is the Jeffrey Epstein Transparency Yes.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Okay, so well named okay so?
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Who is drum roll please? Who stood by his guns?
And no matter what, was not going to vote for
this one.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Roges Representative Clay Higgins, who a Republican from Louisiana. All right,
he said, I have been principled no on this bill
from the beginning. What was wrong with the bill three
months ago is still wrong today. It abandons two hundred
(13:51):
and fifty years of criminal justice procedure in America. As written,
this bill reveals and injures thousands of innocent people, witnesses,
people who provided alibis, family members, et cetera. If enacted
in its current form, this type of broad reveal of
(14:11):
criminal investigative files released to a rabid media will absolutely
result in innocent people being hurt.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Not by my vote.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Okay, to stop saying, we're going to read the rest
of it here as well. Do you buy that so far?
How can four hundred and twenty seven people not see
what he sees? Right? Is he the only because if
you take him at his word, we'd all go, oh
my god, no, of course we shouldn't do We shouldn't
(14:42):
be doing that. So how is it? Is he standing
by his guns? He's trying to make a point? Is
he trying to get attention?
Speaker 2 (14:49):
I think all of the three things you just said.
My counter to what he just said and wrote as
to his reasoning behind voting no is bs. Because when
you have the victims themselves, the women who take claims
to be protecting, standing there on Capitol Hill begging lawmakers,
(15:12):
begging the president to release the files, I call bs.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
You can't possibly know what they know.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
And for you to act like you know what's best
for them is condescending and for me, it doesn't It
doesn't work.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
That's fair. Wait, we still will take him at his
word as this being a principled one. But to your point,
and that you made me think of our stands when
it comes to the death penalty. If the victims family
doesn't want the person to be put to death, we
should listen to that person. This is kind of feels
like that to me. To your point, isn't that what
(15:51):
you're saying?
Speaker 2 (15:51):
No better, I know what's best for you. Yeah, that
you know what's best for you. That's the only way
I can take this, because we've heard directly from the
women who were the victims in this situation. And so
for him to say he doesn't want the information released
to the American public on behalf of the victims who
(16:14):
are asking for the information to be released, I call bs.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
On that, Okay. So he continues on saying the Oversight
Committee is conducting a thorough investigation that has already released
well over sixty thousand paties of documents from the Epstein case.
That effort will continue in a manner that provides all
due protections for innocent Americans. If the Senate amends the
bill to properly address privacy of victims and other Americans
(16:39):
who are named but not criminally implicated, then I will
vote for that bill when it comes back to the House.
He does robes. I will say make a point because
even if the Senate votes and accepts the House built
and say, hey, everybody, the President signed a bill to
release all the fire, there might be a while for
(17:05):
law enforcement, you know, FBI and others to go through
this and make sure no in current investigation is being hurt,
to make sure no victims' names or innocent witnesses or
their names are out there. So this could take a while,
which now a public who is waiting for the files.
(17:25):
It's been approved that the files could go out, and
now we still got further weight.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
But is that enough to vote no?
Speaker 1 (17:35):
His argument is that he doesn't think it has proper
enough protections in the bill for.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
The very people who are asking for it to be released.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
And I'm sure there are some out there, aren't there
a witness, his his thing, people who have provided alibis, witnesses,
family members, those things need to be redacted. I would
assume they would be. But he's saying it doesn't have
proper protections. He's the only one. I don't all of
them doesn't think.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
What's his motivation? I'm actually curious and fascinating.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
What if it's sincere, and I know it's very lonely
to be the person who might be screaming and yelling
about something that nobody everybody else seems right. Maybe he
has a point, I don't know. I actually don't.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
You are a contrarian, so I can see you siding
with and feeling some sort of camaraderie with the contrallrier.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
I am not suggesting contrarian at but he is though
in this case. But I am saying, I know what
it feels like to be a lonely person when you
might be right and everybody else thinks they are because
they're on the same page. I am not. So I'm
just trying to lend or offer this man, Representative Higgins,
(18:45):
a little opportunity and a little grace for the possibility
that he is standing by what he truly believes and
that his motivations are just such rare.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
And I think that would be admirable if that were
in fact the case, because obviously he knows it's not
actually going to move the needle, is not actually going
to change things, but he wants to be on the
record for whatever it is he believed. So yes, if
you are correct, that would be amazing. Forgive me if
I am slightly cynical when it comes to members of Congress.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Oh no, not me. I have faith in our system. Now.
The other point we had was on this. It was
a big Epstein day, the Epstein surviris, as you mentioned
several of them. That's always powerful, Is it not to
have a woman standing there in her I guess they're
an forties and fifties at this point, are they not?
But to be standing there with pictures. They were holding
(19:36):
up pictures of themselves as teenagers and saying, this is
how old I was when I was abused by this man.
That's powerful stuff.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
It is.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
I think that is such an important thing for all
of us to remember. We see these women and they
are women now, but when this was happening to them
decades ago, they were teenagers.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
And that You look at women's stories and what they've
been through very.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Differently based on how old they are, what the experience
is that they've had. And these were women who were
underage and clearly not in a position to be to
be put in the position of transaction sex transactions. These
were vulnerable women. They told their stories. A lot of
(20:22):
these women were not in positions of power or education,
or had strong family ties, or they didn't have the
resources that they may seem to have now as grown women,
and so yes, it's important to remember them.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Where they were, who they were, what they looked like
when these atrocities were happenings.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
You know, we don't children is a name. We don't
assign enough to teen girls.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
They're little there, they are children. Even my nineteen year
old Anil's is a child.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Children. I think that. I think the thing with the
pictures today was very It was effective, powerful and impactful.
The other big headline today with Epstein is a name
I don't think. Maybe it sounds familiar to some people,
but Larry Summers has been in democratic circles and at
the highest point of governance for decades in this country
and including as a Harvard professor. But Roes I didn't
(21:19):
even realize. I was familiar with stories and whatnot. But
this former Harvard president and current tenured Harvard professor, this
latest batch of emails wrote show some interactions between him
and Jeffrey Epstein that don't show anything criminal, don't show
anything suggesting criminality and anything in that relationship. But god damn,
(21:44):
this was all after Jeffrey Epstein was a convicted sex offender,
and they were as chummy and broie as it gets.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
And look, I'm gonna say this, they guess they were
chummy and broe but it was look yes, after the
fact that he was a convicted.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Pedophile.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Yes, and for several years leading up to just the
few months before Jeffrey Epstein was arrested once again and
then soon thereafter died by suicide. So but the gross
thing about it was here's a Harvard tenured professor with
tremendous power and sway and is talking to Jeffrey Epstein
(22:32):
about how to woo women.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
That was what was so gross about it.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
He was leaning on Jeffrey Epstein, a known convicted pedophile,
and getting tips from him on how to converse with
and send text messages to women outside of his marriage
to basically get them, like to string them along or
to keep them going.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
It was gross. And the idea that you would.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Be sending your child to Harvard to learn under this
man's tutelage, who, yes, might be a remarkably gifted, intelligent economist.
Clearly you don't want your daughter in his classroom.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Period.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
When you read and see these exchanges. I'm sorry, that's
just me as a mom speaking. I don't want my
daughter in his class.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
I don't think anyone would take necessarily issue with what
you're saying once you see the emails, and we want
to be clear, he folks, the emails are not suggesting anything.
I want to be clear. He is not at all
being accused of anything criminally and not being accused of
right robes being involved in going to the island and
(23:49):
with the massages and the teenagers, he is not involved
to connected.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Well, well, he's being what the problem is he's being
implicated is ignoring all of that. They're ignoring all of
what was known and still relying on him as.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
A friend and a mentor to help him woo women.
I think that's the issue. He didn't even consider.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
It seems in these emails and text exchange that what
he was convicted of and what he was accused of,
it didn't bother him at all to be personally and
intimately connected with the man who was guiding him in
extramarital potential relationships.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
And what you're saying there is I think a lot
of the back and forth. You might be okay, fine,
a couple of guys doing that. I don't think everybody
would scratched a head or think that necessarily much of it.
But the emails in the back and forth were talking
about and robes. You said it, right, this went up
how many like how close before hisst months Within months,
(24:58):
Larry Summers was still emailing and exchanging messages.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
In the spring of twenty nineteen, they were still oh yeah, okay,
emailing each other back and forth about his this is
Larry Summers girl he was trying to go after and get.
That was literally within months of Jeffrey Epstein actually dying
by suicide in his jail cell.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Okay, so we're going I'm just to give a quick
idea here of what we're talking about again, folks. Jeffrey
Epstein at one point in twenty eighteen wrote to Larry Summers,
She's doomed to be with you again. They're back and
forth talking about a woman another professor from what we
understand at Harvard, that Larry Summers was sweet on and
(25:42):
was trying to pursue. But he was a mentor too.
Is that all right? Yes, okay, Larry Summers responds, Think
for now, I'm going nowhere with her except economics mentor
I think I'm right now in the scene very warmly
in rear view mirror category. Again not none of this
suggests anything necessarily he's the worst guy in the world,
(26:03):
but it gives us some insight into the relationship he
had with Jeffrey Epstein. At another point, Larry Summers writes
to him, to Jeffrey Epstein game day at conference. He
was apparently at some event. She was extremely good, smart,
assertive and clear gorgeous. I'm fucked he was. Again. Several
(26:25):
of these and little back and force robes that show
that he was so close and chummy with the guy,
and the email exchanges I just read, We're in twenty
eighteen and twenty nineteen. There are a bunch more. And
again I'm not suggesting that any of these or smoking
gun type stuff related to what Jeffrey Epstein did. But
(26:45):
the reason Larry Summers robes has now come out and
said I'm stepping back from my public roles is that
these are embarrassing. They're devastating. They knew, we've known for
years he had a close relationship, but to see that
it was so close, even after a conviction for.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
Sex, Yes, that he.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Was relying on Jeffrey Epstein to help guide him in
pursuing women outside of his marriage, knowing what he knew
about him, knowing what the world knew about him, and
still given his role at Harvard within the Democrat community,
that he was still so chummy that actually Epstein referred
(27:32):
to himself as Larry Summer's wingman.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
That is not what you want to get out. And
that's certainly what has been revealed this week.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
And that's why Summers stepping back now, but again wrote,
every single day, every single day, a guy has been
dead for six years. Yes, now almost is making headlines.
It's still changing lives, it's still bringing people down, it's
still number one in polity. Is still so much of
(28:03):
this may I have? This is incredible how much he touched.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
My mom used to always tell me who you're friends
with matters, Who you hang out with, matters, Who you're
seen going out and doing whatever with matters.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
This is exhibit A. It matters.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Even if you didn't commit a crime, even if you
didn't do anything technically wrong, just being associated with someone
who did matters. And this is what we're seeing unfold
right now. And transparency is everything. And it looks like
we are actually I'm shocked. I am shocked. We are
(28:47):
actually potentially going to actually know what is in the
Jeffrey Epstein files in a matter of days or weeks,
depending on what it takes to but they need to
redact to protect the privacy of whomever they need to protect.
But we are likely now going to see what we
(29:09):
have been waiting to see now for a very long.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Time, and that is worth a wow. Stay tuned again, folks.
Top right corner of your Apple podcast app screen on
our show page, little button says follow click that you
will always get our updates coming to you. And it
seems there are so many about so many things these days.
We always appreciate you spending some time with us, folks
(29:33):
on TJ. Holmes with behalf of my dear Amy Roebock.
We'll talk to you all real, real soon.
Hey there, folks, it is Tuesday, November the eighth, and
what do a Harvard professor, survivors of sex abuse, and
members of Congress all have in common? Jeffrey Epstein and
welcome everybody to this episode of Amy and TJ. What
(00:23):
a day we saw in DC. Robes. It is amazing.
This man has been dead for five plus years and
continues to have an impact in this country on our politics,
on our policy, and nr on our headlines. But the
headline today is the biggest one, no doubt, Robes. Congress.
(00:43):
The House representative just said, okay, release the files.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
And there has been a dramatic change in just a
matter of hours because.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
The President changed his tunes, and.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
All of a sudden, we see all the Republicans changing
their tunes because it did take a few rogue, brave
Republicans to break rank and vote with the Democrats for
them to realize, hey, we might lose this thing. And
so look, the President, if nothing else, is a realist.
He saw the numbers, he saw where things were headed,
and he decided to be on the winning side of things.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
As we call it writing on the wall, we call
it that right. Yes, the back and forth for months
not wanting to release the files. And to think the
vote was not close, It wasn't competitive, Robes, this was
almost everybody in Congress, after all this voted to say
(01:41):
yes to releasing the files. After all, this what we're
fighting about for the past severe exactly.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
And so then you asked, Robes, why would anyone not.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Want to run to the files?
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Okay, we understand initially the president said it was to
protect the victims, and yet they were the first people
to say, oh, that victim that you guys are pointing, Yeah,
that was Virginia ju freh.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
So they actually outed one of the.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Redacted names almost immediately from some of the released emails.
And at that point, honestly, when you've got the victims themselves,
when you've got the women whose names were redacted or
whose names weren't included because they were underage, standing there
on Capitol Hill, while this vote is about to happen,
(02:25):
saying release the files, and the only argument is on
behalf of the victim's identities, you gott a pr problem
because if the victims who you're claiming that you want
to protect are saying that they want you to release
the files, that's a tough argument to continue.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
And that's what they were dealing with today, folks in Washington, DC.
So it was another Epstein day in large parts. So
your headlines today is that, yes, the House voted to
release all Epstein files. You have a big time Democrat
saying that he is ashamed of his relationship with Jeffrey
(03:06):
Epstein and saying he is going to step back from
his public roles. This is the former Harvard President Larry Summers.
And of course, as you heard Robot just mentioning there,
you had a press conference with the survivors. Let's start
what we saw late today ropes the back and forth
over months, the White House, the President has been fighting,
fighting to keep a vote from taking place for all
(03:30):
these Epstein files to be released. But sure enough they
forced the hand. They didn't have a choice. Let's be
clear today, the White House and the Speaker of the
House of Representative did not have a choice. They had
the votes at least the what they call it a
discharged position petition. We've learned a lot about how the
House of Representatives works.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yes, when your only argument is that you're protecting the
very people who are claiming they want you to release it,
it's hard to continue with that line of arguments. So yes,
the vote ended up being four hundred and twenty seven
to one.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
What was the point of what to release all the
Epstein files?
Speaker 1 (04:08):
What are we fighting about for the past several months?
Then if everybody overwhelmingly now yeple's that was unanimous, damn near.
There was one guy.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Public political pressure from the victims themselves saying please, and
they have been saying this for months now, but it
was especially effective today for them to be on Capitol
Hill saying please release these files.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Let's be clear here, this was, as we said, the
Democrats had enough votes. They had enough votes to force
a vote. They did not have to leave it up
to Speaker Johnson, but they had enough votes to force
a vote. And that's why we are where we are today.
This was not the President or Speaker Johnson saying, you
(04:55):
know what, out the goodness of our hearts, public pressure, No, no, no, no,
they had no choice. There were enough votes to force
this vote. So sure, now, as you said, Ropes, the
President got on board with this just in the past
twenty four to forty eight hours, correct saying sure, go ahead,
I don't care. And also as a part and added
bonus to this. He tried to flip the script and saying, hey,
(05:18):
this is bad for Democrats, not Republicans. Knock yourselves out,
release this stuff.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Let's look at Bill Clinton, Let's look at Larry Summers,
let's look at JP Morgan, Chase.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
He starts throwing every other name out there.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
My hunch is that perhaps maybe some of the worst
emails that he thought were going to be the most
damaging or damning emails got released in this House committee.
They were able to get some of these emails twenty
thousand plus emails from Jeffrey Epstein from that estate and
(05:50):
release them, trickle them out like day after day. So
he has been enduring day after day after day of
new headlines, new emails, can connections and ties between him
and Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
He's kind of suffered through the worst of it.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
So at this point I maybe can understand he's like,
you know what, let's just release them all because the
worst of the worst perhaps has already been released on him.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Maybe what he was fearing the most has already been released.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
There's that possibility as well, that possibility, but I mean,
truth of the matter, the man didn't have he had
no choice, there's nothing to do. So he is on board,
said he's going to sign this thing. So that freed
up a lot of people to say they don't feel
necessarily chained restricted in voting for it, because the President
(06:40):
himself has said he's on fort So sure enough, they
did this, Robes. I'm looking at this as we are
sitting here. As of this recording, the Senate has now
moved forward with releasing these files. The Senate. Now, this
was a hold up. We didn't know as we started
this record, folks, we didn't know what the Senate was
(07:01):
going to do. This bill has now been sent to
the Senate Robes, and there was a question of whether
or not they would take it up, when they would
take it up, and if they would change it at all.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
A lot of folks thought that this could happen immediately,
and I do think here is Look, this is such
a headline and such this is the empowerment of the
American public. When lawmakers, the president, congressmen and women realize
that public sentiment is squarely on one side of the fence,
they will come to us.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
They will meet us where we are.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
They don't want to be on the wrong side of
things when it comes to reelection, etc. So it's very
clear now to all lawmakers in the House, and now
it appears in the Senate that you don't want to
be on the wrong side of this one. You don't
want to be on the side of let's not release
information to the American public.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
That clears up all of this mystery that has.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Been surrounding this man and these victims for decades now cleared.
Who wouldn't be on the side of transparency. That is
hard to justify with American sentiment, where it is not
shocking that the Senate is saying, let's go ahead and
streamline this.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
So, yes, folks, as of this recording, this is happening
as we are speaking. But the Senate has unanimously voted,
they've given unanimous consent now to move that bill ahead
when they receive it. So the only hold up right now,
Robes is just them getting the thing they've already voted to.
When we receive it, We're gonna go ahead to prove
(08:30):
this thing. It could be on President Trump's desk tonight, signed, sealed, delivered,
and before the day is out, we have got a bill,
a law that is now saying the Epstein files must
be released by the DJ and robes this has Is
this gonna satisfy everybody? Finally?
Speaker 3 (08:52):
I think it will.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
You think I will know as long as we actually
get all of the files.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Yes, because that's always been the case. There's always be all.
I know, we just got twenty thousand emails we didn't
even know.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
I didn't know existing that was from the estate, but
didn't know that that was even on the table.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
What else is out there?
Speaker 2 (09:14):
So now if we now have an order to have
everything released, what else is there? Once you have everything
out in the open, there is nothing else. So I
do think this will put conspiracy theory theorists either they'll either.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
Be proven right or it'll be put to bed.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
But it is nice to at least have the information
that we've all been seeking for all these years, and
for some of these victims decades trying to get out
in the open, trying to get people to give a
shit about. And so the cool thing is people care now,
and now when you've got American public sentiment, they want
(09:53):
to know. Now, the pressure is on lawmakers, and wow,
turns out when there is pressure, they actually can act,
and they can actually act unanimously.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
You know, I'm not gonna give it. I'm not gonna
give them too much credit. This is literally Grivalda representative,
Grivalda from Arizona. They delayed and delayed and delayed swearing
her in that gave and put over the top a
number of votes to where they were. Their hand was forced.
(10:26):
This wasn't even a matter that much of I just
I hate I get it, but they did. They had
they were forced to because of the number of votes.
And that's fine. And they've come around now. That's fine.
And Dan the president has done it. He's come around now,
and he's trying a new tact. Let me try this now.
(10:47):
He is trying to turn Epstein into a Democrats problem.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Even he is the one who is named in the
majority of these emails, and it isn't good for him.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
The emails that we've seen are horrific. Why is not
not even being discussed?
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Well, it is, obviously, but he has not been accused
of anything criminal, no it related to Epstein. It just
all looks bad, it looks funky. Why not just get
this stuff out there? A lot of it's going to
be embarrassing. I am sure, and I think no one
can attest to that more than Larry Summers. Stay here, folks,
will tell you what the former Harvard president, current Harvard
(11:28):
tenured professor, and former Obama and Clinton administration officials says
now about his relationship with Epstein. What he's going to
do now now that so many emails have come out
about his relationship between him and Epstein. Also coming up,
we told you the vote was for what twenty seven
(11:49):
to one? Is that right, Ropes? It's correct, four hundred
and twenty seven to one in the House of Representatives
to release the files. Who was the one? He was
a dude from Louisiana and he is standing by that vote.
We'll let you hear his statements. Stay here, all right, folks,
(12:17):
Welcome back. We continue here. Four twenty seven to one. Robes.
They voted, and it's got to be tough and lonely
to be that one guy, right four hunch. Overwhelmingly, you'll
never see a vote like this, right on something so consequential.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
I have never seen a vote like this with these
many eyes on this vote, so many people are looking
to see who voted what way and to be lone
the lone congressman who voted no when everyone else voted yes.
And the vote is for transparency. The vote is for
the release of documents. The vote is for folks to
(12:54):
understand what we're actually dealing with when it comes to
the epstecize, would you possibly justify a no vote when
the President of the United States, who potentially has the
most to lose, yes out of anybody even him, go
ahead release the file?
Speaker 1 (13:13):
He said? Transparency, isn't it? Cole? That is the official
name of the bill is the Jeffrey Epstein Transparency Yes.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Okay, so well named okay so?
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Who is drum roll please? Who stood by his guns?
And no matter what, was not going to vote for
this one.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Roges Representative Clay Higgins, who a Republican from Louisiana. All right,
he said, I have been principled no on this bill
from the beginning. What was wrong with the bill three
months ago is still wrong today. It abandons two hundred
(13:51):
and fifty years of criminal justice procedure in America. As written,
this bill reveals and injures thousands of innocent people, witnesses,
people who provided alibis, family members, et cetera. If enacted
in its current form, this type of broad reveal of
(14:11):
criminal investigative files released to a rabid media will absolutely
result in innocent people being hurt.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Not by my vote.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Okay, to stop saying, we're going to read the rest
of it here as well. Do you buy that so far?
How can four hundred and twenty seven people not see
what he sees? Right? Is he the only because if
you take him at his word, we'd all go, oh
my god, no, of course we shouldn't do We shouldn't
(14:42):
be doing that. So how is it? Is he standing
by his guns? He's trying to make a point? Is
he trying to get attention?
Speaker 2 (14:49):
I think all of the three things you just said.
My counter to what he just said and wrote as
to his reasoning behind voting no is bs. Because when
you have the victims themselves, the women who take claims
to be protecting, standing there on Capitol Hill begging lawmakers,
(15:12):
begging the president to release the files, I call bs.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
You can't possibly know what they know.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
And for you to act like you know what's best
for them is condescending and for me, it doesn't It
doesn't work.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
That's fair. Wait, we still will take him at his
word as this being a principled one. But to your point,
and that you made me think of our stands when
it comes to the death penalty. If the victims family
doesn't want the person to be put to death, we
should listen to that person. This is kind of feels
like that to me. To your point, isn't that what
(15:51):
you're saying?
Speaker 2 (15:51):
No better, I know what's best for you. Yeah, that
you know what's best for you. That's the only way
I can take this, because we've heard directly from the
women who were the victims in this situation. And so
for him to say he doesn't want the information released
to the American public on behalf of the victims who
(16:14):
are asking for the information to be released, I call bs.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
On that, Okay. So he continues on saying the Oversight
Committee is conducting a thorough investigation that has already released
well over sixty thousand paties of documents from the Epstein case.
That effort will continue in a manner that provides all
due protections for innocent Americans. If the Senate amends the
bill to properly address privacy of victims and other Americans
(16:39):
who are named but not criminally implicated, then I will
vote for that bill when it comes back to the House.
He does robes. I will say make a point because
even if the Senate votes and accepts the House built
and say, hey, everybody, the President signed a bill to
release all the fire, there might be a while for
(17:05):
law enforcement, you know, FBI and others to go through
this and make sure no in current investigation is being hurt,
to make sure no victims' names or innocent witnesses or
their names are out there. So this could take a while,
which now a public who is waiting for the files.
(17:25):
It's been approved that the files could go out, and
now we still got further weight.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
But is that enough to vote no?
Speaker 1 (17:35):
His argument is that he doesn't think it has proper
enough protections in the bill for.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
The very people who are asking for it to be released.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
And I'm sure there are some out there, aren't there
a witness, his his thing, people who have provided alibis, witnesses,
family members, those things need to be redacted. I would
assume they would be. But he's saying it doesn't have
proper protections. He's the only one. I don't all of
them doesn't think.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
What's his motivation? I'm actually curious and fascinating.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
What if it's sincere, and I know it's very lonely
to be the person who might be screaming and yelling
about something that nobody everybody else seems right. Maybe he
has a point, I don't know. I actually don't.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
You are a contrarian, so I can see you siding
with and feeling some sort of camaraderie with the contrallrier.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
I am not suggesting contrarian at but he is though
in this case. But I am saying, I know what
it feels like to be a lonely person when you
might be right and everybody else thinks they are because
they're on the same page. I am not. So I'm
just trying to lend or offer this man, Representative Higgins,
(18:45):
a little opportunity and a little grace for the possibility
that he is standing by what he truly believes and
that his motivations are just such rare.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
And I think that would be admirable if that were
in fact the case, because obviously he knows it's not
actually going to move the needle, is not actually going
to change things, but he wants to be on the
record for whatever it is he believed. So yes, if
you are correct, that would be amazing. Forgive me if
I am slightly cynical when it comes to members of Congress.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Oh no, not me. I have faith in our system. Now.
The other point we had was on this. It was
a big Epstein day, the Epstein surviris, as you mentioned
several of them. That's always powerful, Is it not to
have a woman standing there in her I guess they're
an forties and fifties at this point, are they not?
But to be standing there with pictures. They were holding
(19:36):
up pictures of themselves as teenagers and saying, this is
how old I was when I was abused by this man.
That's powerful stuff.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
It is.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
I think that is such an important thing for all
of us to remember. We see these women and they
are women now, but when this was happening to them
decades ago, they were teenagers.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
And that You look at women's stories and what they've
been through very.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Differently based on how old they are, what the experience
is that they've had. And these were women who were
underage and clearly not in a position to be to
be put in the position of transaction sex transactions. These
were vulnerable women. They told their stories. A lot of
(20:22):
these women were not in positions of power or education,
or had strong family ties, or they didn't have the
resources that they may seem to have now as grown women,
and so yes, it's important to remember them.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Where they were, who they were, what they looked like
when these atrocities were happenings.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
You know, we don't children is a name. We don't
assign enough to teen girls.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
They're little there, they are children. Even my nineteen year
old Anil's is a child.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Children. I think that. I think the thing with the
pictures today was very It was effective, powerful and impactful.
The other big headline today with Epstein is a name
I don't think. Maybe it sounds familiar to some people,
but Larry Summers has been in democratic circles and at
the highest point of governance for decades in this country
and including as a Harvard professor. But Roes I didn't
(21:19):
even realize. I was familiar with stories and whatnot. But
this former Harvard president and current tenured Harvard professor, this
latest batch of emails wrote show some interactions between him
and Jeffrey Epstein that don't show anything criminal, don't show
anything suggesting criminality and anything in that relationship. But god damn,
(21:44):
this was all after Jeffrey Epstein was a convicted sex offender,
and they were as chummy and broie as it gets.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
And look, I'm gonna say this, they guess they were
chummy and broe but it was look yes, after the
fact that he was a convicted.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Pedophile.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Yes, and for several years leading up to just the
few months before Jeffrey Epstein was arrested once again and
then soon thereafter died by suicide. So but the gross
thing about it was here's a Harvard tenured professor with
tremendous power and sway and is talking to Jeffrey Epstein
(22:32):
about how to woo women.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
That was what was so gross about it.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
He was leaning on Jeffrey Epstein, a known convicted pedophile,
and getting tips from him on how to converse with
and send text messages to women outside of his marriage
to basically get them, like to string them along or
to keep them going.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
It was gross. And the idea that you would.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Be sending your child to Harvard to learn under this
man's tutelage, who, yes, might be a remarkably gifted, intelligent economist.
Clearly you don't want your daughter in his classroom.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Period.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
When you read and see these exchanges. I'm sorry, that's
just me as a mom speaking. I don't want my
daughter in his class.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
I don't think anyone would take necessarily issue with what
you're saying once you see the emails, and we want
to be clear, he folks, the emails are not suggesting anything.
I want to be clear. He is not at all
being accused of anything criminally and not being accused of
right robes being involved in going to the island and
(23:49):
with the massages and the teenagers, he is not involved
to connected.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Well, well, he's being what the problem is he's being
implicated is ignoring all of that. They're ignoring all of
what was known and still relying on him as.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
A friend and a mentor to help him woo women.
I think that's the issue. He didn't even consider.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
It seems in these emails and text exchange that what
he was convicted of and what he was accused of,
it didn't bother him at all to be personally and
intimately connected with the man who was guiding him in
extramarital potential relationships.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
And what you're saying there is I think a lot
of the back and forth. You might be okay, fine,
a couple of guys doing that. I don't think everybody
would scratched a head or think that necessarily much of it.
But the emails in the back and forth were talking
about and robes. You said it, right, this went up
how many like how close before hisst months Within months,
(24:58):
Larry Summers was still emailing and exchanging messages.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
In the spring of twenty nineteen, they were still oh yeah, okay,
emailing each other back and forth about his this is
Larry Summers girl he was trying to go after and get.
That was literally within months of Jeffrey Epstein actually dying
by suicide in his jail cell.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Okay, so we're going I'm just to give a quick
idea here of what we're talking about again, folks. Jeffrey
Epstein at one point in twenty eighteen wrote to Larry Summers,
She's doomed to be with you again. They're back and
forth talking about a woman another professor from what we
understand at Harvard, that Larry Summers was sweet on and
(25:42):
was trying to pursue. But he was a mentor too.
Is that all right? Yes, okay, Larry Summers responds, Think
for now, I'm going nowhere with her except economics mentor
I think I'm right now in the scene very warmly
in rear view mirror category. Again not none of this
suggests anything necessarily he's the worst guy in the world,
(26:03):
but it gives us some insight into the relationship he
had with Jeffrey Epstein. At another point, Larry Summers writes
to him, to Jeffrey Epstein game day at conference. He
was apparently at some event. She was extremely good, smart,
assertive and clear gorgeous. I'm fucked he was. Again. Several
(26:25):
of these and little back and force robes that show
that he was so close and chummy with the guy,
and the email exchanges I just read, We're in twenty
eighteen and twenty nineteen. There are a bunch more. And
again I'm not suggesting that any of these or smoking
gun type stuff related to what Jeffrey Epstein did. But
(26:45):
the reason Larry Summers robes has now come out and
said I'm stepping back from my public roles is that
these are embarrassing. They're devastating. They knew, we've known for
years he had a close relationship, but to see that
it was so close, even after a conviction for.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
Sex, Yes, that he.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Was relying on Jeffrey Epstein to help guide him in
pursuing women outside of his marriage, knowing what he knew
about him, knowing what the world knew about him, and
still given his role at Harvard within the Democrat community,
that he was still so chummy that actually Epstein referred
(27:32):
to himself as Larry Summer's wingman.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
That is not what you want to get out. And
that's certainly what has been revealed this week.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
And that's why Summers stepping back now, but again wrote,
every single day, every single day, a guy has been
dead for six years. Yes, now almost is making headlines.
It's still changing lives, it's still bringing people down, it's
still number one in polity. Is still so much of
(28:03):
this may I have? This is incredible how much he touched.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
My mom used to always tell me who you're friends
with matters, Who you hang out with, matters, Who you're
seen going out and doing whatever with matters.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
This is exhibit A. It matters.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Even if you didn't commit a crime, even if you
didn't do anything technically wrong, just being associated with someone
who did matters. And this is what we're seeing unfold
right now. And transparency is everything. And it looks like
we are actually I'm shocked. I am shocked. We are
(28:47):
actually potentially going to actually know what is in the
Jeffrey Epstein files in a matter of days or weeks,
depending on what it takes to but they need to
redact to protect the privacy of whomever they need to protect.
But we are likely now going to see what we
(29:09):
have been waiting to see now for a very long.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Time, and that is worth a wow. Stay tuned again, folks.
Top right corner of your Apple podcast app screen on
our show page, little button says follow click that you
will always get our updates coming to you. And it
seems there are so many about so many things these days.
We always appreciate you spending some time with us, folks
(29:33):
on TJ. Holmes with behalf of my dear Amy Roebock.
We'll talk to you all real, real soon.
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.