October 31, 2025 • 22 mins
The latest headline out of CBS News is a shocking report from Variety Magazine. The credible news outlet says it has multiple sources with knowledge of the situation, reporting that Gayle King will leave her anchor position when her contract is up next May. What’s even more interesting is CBS’s official response and it’s what they didn’t say, that has our interest peaked.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey there, everybody. It is Friday, October thirty first, yes,
Halloween twenty twenty five. And well, first it was Bill Owens,
the executive producer of sixty Minutes. Then it was Wendy McMahon,
the president of CBS News. Then it was Nora O'Donnell.
Then it was Stephen Colbert, then it was John Dickerson.
(00:23):
And now we're getting word that it is Gail King
who could be leaving CBS. And with that, welcome everybody
to this episode of Amy and TJ Rohobs. This is,
I guess, a jolting headline for the industry. We shouldn't
be surprised to see this at all, though, right.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Well, there were predictions that there were going to be
major changes in shifts and potentially what and who we
see basically headlining CBS News, And if this is true,
this would be the biggest jolt of them all, for sure.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
You say, if this is true, and we're speaking on
it today, because it does come from a reputable outlet, Variety,
citing at least four sources with knowledge of the situation,
say that the anchor, the head anchor, the star, the celebrity,
and the one who's been there longest at CBS News
on their morning show. Gail King would be leaving, is
(01:21):
expected to leave that show at least robes starting next
year when her contract is up.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yes, the headline specifically reads this, Gail King expected to
depart as CBS Morning anchor amid CBS News overhaul and
then says exclusive.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
And it says she could stay with CBS.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
That's part of their story or their reporting that she
would just be shifting roles in May when her contract
is up. But they say that CBS would like her
to stay with the company, but just perhaps not in
that role. It's unclear if she would be initiating this change,
if they are initiating this change we've seen in the
past or at least recently the folks who have left.
(02:02):
John Dickerson didn't say why, but the other folks have
left has specifically referenced the change in editorial direction.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Yes, and you're talking specifically, Wendy McMahon, you're talking specifically
Bill Owens sixty minutes. Again, we talked about that when
he stepped out. That's a job, that is the ultimate job.
You do not leave something is going on of the
utmost seriousness. If you voluntarily step out of that job.
So of course folks are familiar with the mergers that
(02:35):
have been going on Skydan Spy's Paramount. They plays Barry
Weiss someone. Is it fair to say she's an entrepreneur
when it comes to journalism online? But is she certainly
a conservative? She's been.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Yes, she was a conservative voice and a conservative of
republican op ed columnist for the New York Times at
one point. Even so, she has not been shy about
sharing her political leanings.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Okay, so she is the one now in charge to
be in charge of CBS News, and yes, they're going
through some changes. They just announced a round of layoffs
over at Paramounts, some of them touching CBS News. They
expect more, but changes. This is what happens. But when
you start seeing robes, it concerns people. But we've now
been seeing it for a couple of years. If you
(03:17):
go back to hod of cod by Lester Holt, who
have been leaving jobs, these are big, big jobs and
they're voluntarily stepping away. At least that's what we're being
told publicly.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
The idea is that the ratings just aren't what they were,
and so the money isn't what it was meaning the profits.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
And so these folks.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
These big names, these major broadcast news anchors, have major salaries,
and so the reporting has been that these folks have
been offered or were offered a version of staying at
the networks just for a lot less money. And so
a lot of these big names have chosen to leave
or massively scale back their duties to justify this lowered salary.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
More power makes sense.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
And some of them have stuck around in different capacities.
And that's fine, dude, am I'm not overstating, right, She's
the biggest star of CBS News.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
She might be one of the only stars that people
could still name. Yes, there's Jane Pauly and Leslie Stall.
I think there are some other names that you know of,
like very I mean we're talking women though in their
what eighties at this point.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
They have been big names for a long long time.
But in terms of like.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Modern current biggest talent at CBS News, I would say
it's absolutely guiltcare right, yes.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
And she has been in that role for I didn't
realize it was that long. Was a twelve twelve year
twelve that is a that is not a small feat
to be able to do that these.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Days, especially when you're the third ranked morning show and
everyone around you has been moved and changed and has
left to try and change or pick up or do
something to the rating. So the fact that she's survived
many different iterations of including a name change for the
morning show, the fact that we actually didn't know what
(05:06):
the show is called anymore.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
We were a little confused.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
It is right now CBS Mornings, but it was CBS
this Morning when she started, and it wasn't twenty twelve.
That was Charlie Rose, Nora O'Donnell, and Gail King in
twenty twelve. Of course, has gone through several iterations and
several anchors since twenty twelve, and she has been the
(05:31):
constant look. She's brought all a lot. She is the face
of that network in almost every way. She is a celebrity.
She's brought Oprah on board over there. We all remember
with that R. Kelly interview and how she handled that
absolutely brilliantly. That raised her profile even more. She's kind
of it. But we say all that robes they have
(05:52):
barely no excuse me, they have never gotten out a
third place.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
No, not in modern history. I don't remember a time
since we were in the network morning show game. They
were always not just a third, but folks would often
write distant third.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
It wasn't even a competitive third.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
So but still get away from the ratings for a second.
There's a matter of value that she's adding to CBS
that I can't imagine them voluntarily giving up.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
We've talked about this look. When it comes to morning
show ratings wars. A lot of times it's about the bookings.
Who you can get to sit down with a journalist
on your team, and when you have star power, when
you're Oprah's best friend, when you've got the name and
face recognition that Gail King has, that makes a big
difference in terms of getting big interviews and beg gets.
(06:36):
They're always competitive among the three morning shows. You want
your star talent out there recruiting for you.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
And she's a draw. I mean she If you're if
you're having a conversation with somebody, Okay, you want to
go to the number one, the number two, or the
number three. Most people say, wow, I don't want to
go to the number three. Oh wait, Gail is over there.
That is really a part of the game, and she
is a part of a draw in that way that
has nothing to do with a viewer deciding I want
(07:05):
to watch Gail Kane this morning. What's after that. I'm
sure they do their research and they're looking for whatever,
but I don't know what direction they're going to go,
but she just seems to be a household name in
a way. This made me concerned when I saw this
robes about what's going to happen to morning shows because
we never thought that in late night show would get canceled,
(07:27):
and CBS has already done that with Colbert, not canceled him,
canceled the show exactly right, So it's hard to fathom
broadcast morning shows going on. It.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Actually it makes me feel it's sad.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
I hate that.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
It's sad because you see the.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
End of an era and something that not only was
important in terms of bringing information to people watching in
the mornings as they were getting their routine down, they're
listening to the news, and of course that's important, but
just as a part of our culture and a part
of life, you know, I remember growing up all of us,
do I think probably listening having a morning show on
(08:02):
in the background. It was just a constant and to
think of it, going away, And certainly it's obviously become
less significant and less relevant. We know that, but to
see it potentially even become just a shell of what
it was is sad.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
And specifically when you talk about CBS.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Yes, we just got word John Dickerson, the co anchor
of the evening news program, is stepping down.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Two days or three days ago.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Well I've lost count now.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
But no word about whether or not his co anchor,
Maurice Dubois is sticking around. But certainly, Barry Wise, this
has been anticipated. She actually and this has been acknowledged,
has even floated names around about who she'd like to
bring into CBS News. She wants a diversity of opinion
and a diversity of culture. And I'm not talking about black, brown, white,
(08:50):
We're talking about political diversity.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Yeah, because they see it for so long, some do
as it's been one voice and one side there say okay, fine,
thank yourself out. There's just a matter of Look, it's
important to there are plenty of folks listening morning shows,
you all talking about it so fondly. It has never
been a part of my life, is not a part
of my day. There are people who have no clue
(09:14):
about broadcast morning shows. There folks probably under the age
of you take a poll walking down the street under
twenty one name a couple of morning show anchors might
take them a minute.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Yeah, I bet you. They wouldn't be able to.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
They might even have a hard time coming up with
the name of the program at this point when you're
talking about that young of an audience, because they simply
are not watching morning news show, and the ratings will
show that when you look at the demos, it's actually astounding, and.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
So to that point, it's tough to justify this stuff.
So if you go back, Rose, I'm trying to get
my years right, So I'm gonna go twenty years twenty
years ago, what is this, twenty.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Twenty five, So twenty oh five, two thousand and five.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
That season the Today Show was number one, and they
were averaging that season about six to six and a
half million viewers. So you'll hear what I'm saying. The
number one morning show twenty years ago was averaging six
six and a half million viewers. The Today Show is
now in number two plays and their numbers now compared
(10:20):
to six million they used to get twenty years ago,
they getting about two and a half million now right,
that was their average viewership the last season, and they
finished in number two.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
Those were the days.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
I was at the Today Show back then MSNBC Weekend, Today,
Today's Show, and talk about the money flowing. These salaries
of the anchors were leaked out. You're talking Matt Lauer
was making twenty million dollars a year. We were flying
all over the world. No budget was too big, and really,
I don't think anyone realized at the time that was
(10:54):
the very end of the era, and things started to
change very dramatically after that.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Well, we were doing look not gonna it's not gonna
be an indictment of the industry. We're not gonna do
that class today. But the reality of the situation is
that you cannot sustain these salaries if you're not sustaining
these numbers. So we talk about twenty years ago where
the numbers were even then robes, when the Today Show
is getting six and six and a half CBS mornings,
(11:20):
it was getting about three, like half the audience back then.
Now one point nine to four million viewers is the average.
So you cannot justify being in third and paying I
guess whatever salary it might be it just the numbers
don't work out.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
And when you look at the demo, which is what
the advertisers are really looking at in terms of who
they're trying to advertise for, and that's what is that
twenty is twenty five to fifty.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Four, and then there's an eighteen to forty nine.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Right, twenty five to fifty four.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
You've got money, you've got experience, and they're trying to Obviously,
the younger demos even may be more important in moments
because you're trying to get viewers to establish a pattern
and to come back to you so that advertisers can
have someone to advertise to for many, many years. But yeah,
they only have three hundred. They have less than three
hundred and fifty thousand folks watching who are in that
(12:17):
coveted demo. That's a drop in the bucket. I mean,
what is that one percent of our population? Wow?
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Three forty six. It's just to see it. It's been
going this way and people have been warning about it,
and we used to hear it all the time in
the hallways. Your industry is going away and that we say, yeah, yeah, yeah,
and we did we kept I say we as a
part of this industry kept holding on, and some of
that was holding on to hope, not necessarily changing any strategy.
(12:48):
You look at every morning show and it looks pretty
much the way it did twenty years ago. A couple
of anchers sitting behind the desk. There's some movements, some
new graphics, toss the weather.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
It looks the same. It does.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
It really does. So hasn't changed to evolve to what
maybe people want in their intention spans And.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
This is where we are, yeap, that is where we are,
and it's reported no one ever knows for sure, but
the last report Gail King just had signed a one
year edition last May, and she signed for ten million dollars.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
That's what That's what the report is. That's how much
she makes.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
And yeah, that's tough to justify when you have ratings
like we just talked about.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
And again she does, I think, a fantastic job. There
was a just a there is a way that she
goes about that I appreciate, right. I think people call
her Auntie a lot of times. She does. She comes
off sometimes, especially early on, she wasn't that.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Well.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
She didn't look like she was media trained at a
journalism department somewhere. She was just being herself, and there
was something warm about the way she handled r Kelly
is a that's the best example, Robert Robert, when he's
getting up flailing almost dangerously close to her. Robert, that is,
I guess an appeal she has that I absolutely love.
(14:06):
I hope you stays. I hope she sticks around forever.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
There aren't many journalists like her. And you mentioned her warmth,
her authenticity. She's real and she's not putting on airs,
and I do think that that is something that you
don't often see. People are too polished, they're too perfect,
they're too concerned about what other people think of them.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
She doesn't have any of those traits. She really does have.
She's somebody who you feel like you can trust.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Yeah, I appreciate that, even her. Again, this is another big,
high profile moment they went does she went to space.
That's how big of a star she is oway there.
That's what she brings to that place. And she runs
in circles with these folks, a lot of them. She
has access to them outside of being with CBS. She
leaves CBS. She's got these friends already. But it was
that space trip you talk about her authenticity. You remember
(14:54):
when she rang that she.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Was so scared please, She wasn't even trying to tell
like she was brave in that moment, she was scared
to death. That it was the phase I would have had, yes,
And it was so relatable because yes, I think anybody
who's actually being honest probably would look and feel the
same way.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
That was one of her best TV moments in my opinion,
and she was authentic. But all of this being talked
about the reporting from Variety, The conversation is going on
everywhere right now. But what is CBS News saying about it? Yes,
they had to respond. Stay here, we'll tell you what
their statement was.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Continuing our conversation now about this very detailed and fairly
significant headline that we got from the credible news gathering
agency of Variety magazine. And they are reporting that Gail
King is expected to leave her position as the morning
show anchor at CBS News. And they say amid a
(16:02):
CBS News overhaul.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
So the.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
I guess they're suggesting that it might not be her choice,
it might be CBS's choice.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
No one really knows, but they say.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
That they have four sources who have knowledge of this conversation,
and obviously their reporting was significant enough for CBS to
release a statement.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
And this is where it for me, at least, I'm like, oh,
this is real. Pay attention to these, to the wording.
Governments are really good at it. Politicians are really good
at it. Put out statements that seem to be denying something,
but certain things get left out. So this is how
(16:47):
CBS News responded to Variety quote, there have been no
discussions with Gail about her contract that runs through May
twenty twenty six. She's a truly valued part of CBS
and we look forward to engaging with her about the future.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
They did not deny that she would be leaving CBS
Morning Show whatever it's called, CBS This Morning, This Morning
Morning Stop, Oh my gosh, CBS Mornings. Okay, So they
did not deny that, and they just said they haven't
had a discussion with Gail. They could have been talking
to her agents, her representatives, and so that would still
(17:31):
be true if they were having conversations with her people.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
You know, I'm very literal, right in all we do
in our relationship, everything we talk about it.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
Is to an annoyingly specific yes.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
I take you at your word. And I am only interpreting,
not looking for a meaning. I am taking you for
what you say.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
What I meant to say.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
We don't want to hear it.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
You know what I really meant was.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
I'm just telling you what CBS said. And they say
there have been no discussions with about her contract. There
are no discussions with her about her contract that runs
through May twenty twenty six. Why did they need to
include the fact that the contract is up in May
of twenty twenty six. Now, Flip Coin, who knows? We
look forward to engaging with her about her.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Future, which could be a number of positions.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
But it means it's uncertain.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
You come out and say we love this woman, she
is everything to us, and we hope she never leaves
that chair. You don't even show a sign of support
for her in what she's currently doing.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Now.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
I don't know what discussions were had before this statement
went out, but I don't like that. I know what
it feels like to not be supported by the place
where you're working. You gotta say, yes, we know she's
a value part of CVS. We watch, we get e gate,
we look forward to engaging with her. This almost sounds
like us versus her like, we're gonna come to battle
(18:58):
and figure out I don't like that much. I get it,
and we get the business ropes. We get that what
they put out and why they had to put this out, well,
that sucks. It sucks.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
It does, and no word from Gail King herself. And
we actually watched Friday morning's broadcast just to see if
she would acknowledge it or say anything. We highly doubted
that she would, but just in case she did not.
But the big question is would she want to stay
after being taken off the show?
Speaker 3 (19:29):
Could she?
Speaker 2 (19:33):
I don't even want to say say face because she
may not want to stay on the show. It may
be her choice, and this statement from CBS News might
have been a reaction to them knowing she doesn't want
to stay on the show. We don't know what's going
on behind the scenes, and we don't know where her
head is. But there have been situations when it has
been that person's choice, whether it was a financial decision
(19:54):
or what. But lester Holt decided to stay and continued
to do some date lines just to keep his you know,
his toe in the water, his foot in the game,
and that can be nice. And we've seen other folks
like Diane Soyer do the same thing when she left
World News tonight, and so that's not unheard of at all.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
But it also might be her choice. And that's a
grind getting up every single day at that time. Yeah,
that's a lot on her. Maybe she's I mean, she's
seventy now. Maybe she wants to kick back and take
it easy for a little bit. Maybe she can get
her own show, some kind of talk situation. There's all
kind of streaming options. She yeah, But at the same time, bro,
given all the turmoil, she might say, you know, let
(20:32):
me go ahead and get on out of here. Well,
just let it go and go live my life.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
And seeing other prominent journalists take a truly what seems
to be a moral stand, or at least a stand
of integrity or ethics, journalism ethics, she may feel like
she's in really good company to do so, and she'll
be on the right side of history for heading out.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
He look, CBS, they have to they have to have
to handle this well because Gail generally speaks, is beloved, right,
She's not necessarily a figure, not until I think, what
was it the space trip that she became polarizing to
a certain degree, and that might have had a lot
to do with one of her mates that was on
(21:12):
the capsule with her. But still she has, for the
most part, enjoyed warmth from the audience. Yes, if CBS
is seen in any way shape of on pushing her
out the door, that might struggle. They might struggle to
hold on to some of the audience they have right now.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
I wonder how much they care about that. And you
just said the most important part hold on to the
audience they have right now.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
They want to bring in a whole different audience.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
They want to bring in a whole other segment of
America to watch and trust mainstream news in a way
that many believe those folks have been disenfranchised it franchised from.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
And a big step in getting those people to watch
you is probably saying, hey, we just got rid of
Oprah's best friend. That would happidly work in some circles,
would it not. Yes, well, yes, that might be part
of the strategy as well.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
We will have to wait and see what happens, if
Gail says anything, if CBS says anything further, but certainly, yeah,
this is how many months away.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Are we from that five, six seven, So.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Certainly word will have to come soon enough. But things
are for sure changing.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
It'll be a big May over there, the morning and
the evening, right, Colbert is up in May.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Yes, yes, man, lots of changes, all right.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Thank you so much everyone for listening to us on
this Saturday.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
I may be Robuck alongside TJ.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Holmes.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
We hope you all have a wonderful week on this Saturday.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Saturday.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
Yeah it's a Friday. Yeah wow, man, I'm losing it.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
I want to get to the weekend too, baby, but
slowly down, all right. We'll talk to Gus soon.
Hey there, everybody. It is Friday, October thirty first, yes,
Halloween twenty twenty five. And well, first it was Bill Owens,
the executive producer of sixty Minutes. Then it was Wendy McMahon,
the president of CBS News. Then it was Nora O'Donnell.
Then it was Stephen Colbert, then it was John Dickerson.
(00:23):
And now we're getting word that it is Gail King
who could be leaving CBS. And with that, welcome everybody
to this episode of Amy and TJ Rohobs. This is,
I guess, a jolting headline for the industry. We shouldn't
be surprised to see this at all, though, right.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Well, there were predictions that there were going to be
major changes in shifts and potentially what and who we
see basically headlining CBS News, And if this is true,
this would be the biggest jolt of them all, for sure.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
You say, if this is true, and we're speaking on
it today, because it does come from a reputable outlet, Variety,
citing at least four sources with knowledge of the situation,
say that the anchor, the head anchor, the star, the celebrity,
and the one who's been there longest at CBS News
on their morning show. Gail King would be leaving, is
(01:21):
expected to leave that show at least robes starting next
year when her contract is up.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yes, the headline specifically reads this, Gail King expected to
depart as CBS Morning anchor amid CBS News overhaul and
then says exclusive.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
And it says she could stay with CBS.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
That's part of their story or their reporting that she
would just be shifting roles in May when her contract
is up. But they say that CBS would like her
to stay with the company, but just perhaps not in
that role. It's unclear if she would be initiating this change,
if they are initiating this change we've seen in the
past or at least recently the folks who have left.
(02:02):
John Dickerson didn't say why, but the other folks have
left has specifically referenced the change in editorial direction.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Yes, and you're talking specifically, Wendy McMahon, you're talking specifically
Bill Owens sixty minutes. Again, we talked about that when
he stepped out. That's a job, that is the ultimate job.
You do not leave something is going on of the
utmost seriousness. If you voluntarily step out of that job.
So of course folks are familiar with the mergers that
(02:35):
have been going on Skydan Spy's Paramount. They plays Barry
Weiss someone. Is it fair to say she's an entrepreneur
when it comes to journalism online? But is she certainly
a conservative? She's been.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Yes, she was a conservative voice and a conservative of
republican op ed columnist for the New York Times at
one point. Even so, she has not been shy about
sharing her political leanings.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Okay, so she is the one now in charge to
be in charge of CBS News, and yes, they're going
through some changes. They just announced a round of layoffs
over at Paramounts, some of them touching CBS News. They
expect more, but changes. This is what happens. But when
you start seeing robes, it concerns people. But we've now
been seeing it for a couple of years. If you
(03:17):
go back to hod of cod by Lester Holt, who
have been leaving jobs, these are big, big jobs and
they're voluntarily stepping away. At least that's what we're being
told publicly.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
The idea is that the ratings just aren't what they were,
and so the money isn't what it was meaning the profits.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
And so these folks.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
These big names, these major broadcast news anchors, have major salaries,
and so the reporting has been that these folks have
been offered or were offered a version of staying at
the networks just for a lot less money. And so
a lot of these big names have chosen to leave
or massively scale back their duties to justify this lowered salary.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
More power makes sense.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
And some of them have stuck around in different capacities.
And that's fine, dude, am I'm not overstating, right, She's
the biggest star of CBS News.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
She might be one of the only stars that people
could still name. Yes, there's Jane Pauly and Leslie Stall.
I think there are some other names that you know of,
like very I mean we're talking women though in their
what eighties at this point.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
They have been big names for a long long time.
But in terms of like.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Modern current biggest talent at CBS News, I would say
it's absolutely guiltcare right, yes.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
And she has been in that role for I didn't
realize it was that long. Was a twelve twelve year
twelve that is a that is not a small feat
to be able to do that these.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Days, especially when you're the third ranked morning show and
everyone around you has been moved and changed and has
left to try and change or pick up or do
something to the rating. So the fact that she's survived
many different iterations of including a name change for the
morning show, the fact that we actually didn't know what
(05:06):
the show is called anymore.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
We were a little confused.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
It is right now CBS Mornings, but it was CBS
this Morning when she started, and it wasn't twenty twelve.
That was Charlie Rose, Nora O'Donnell, and Gail King in
twenty twelve. Of course, has gone through several iterations and
several anchors since twenty twelve, and she has been the
(05:31):
constant look. She's brought all a lot. She is the face
of that network in almost every way. She is a celebrity.
She's brought Oprah on board over there. We all remember
with that R. Kelly interview and how she handled that
absolutely brilliantly. That raised her profile even more. She's kind
of it. But we say all that robes they have
(05:52):
barely no excuse me, they have never gotten out a
third place.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
No, not in modern history. I don't remember a time
since we were in the network morning show game. They
were always not just a third, but folks would often
write distant third.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
It wasn't even a competitive third.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
So but still get away from the ratings for a second.
There's a matter of value that she's adding to CBS
that I can't imagine them voluntarily giving up.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
We've talked about this look. When it comes to morning
show ratings wars. A lot of times it's about the bookings.
Who you can get to sit down with a journalist
on your team, and when you have star power, when
you're Oprah's best friend, when you've got the name and
face recognition that Gail King has, that makes a big
difference in terms of getting big interviews and beg gets.
(06:36):
They're always competitive among the three morning shows. You want
your star talent out there recruiting for you.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
And she's a draw. I mean she If you're if
you're having a conversation with somebody, Okay, you want to
go to the number one, the number two, or the
number three. Most people say, wow, I don't want to
go to the number three. Oh wait, Gail is over there.
That is really a part of the game, and she
is a part of a draw in that way that
has nothing to do with a viewer deciding I want
(07:05):
to watch Gail Kane this morning. What's after that. I'm
sure they do their research and they're looking for whatever,
but I don't know what direction they're going to go,
but she just seems to be a household name in
a way. This made me concerned when I saw this
robes about what's going to happen to morning shows because
we never thought that in late night show would get canceled,
(07:27):
and CBS has already done that with Colbert, not canceled him,
canceled the show exactly right, So it's hard to fathom
broadcast morning shows going on. It.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Actually it makes me feel it's sad.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
I hate that.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
It's sad because you see the.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
End of an era and something that not only was
important in terms of bringing information to people watching in
the mornings as they were getting their routine down, they're
listening to the news, and of course that's important, but
just as a part of our culture and a part
of life, you know, I remember growing up all of us,
do I think probably listening having a morning show on
(08:02):
in the background. It was just a constant and to
think of it, going away, And certainly it's obviously become
less significant and less relevant. We know that, but to
see it potentially even become just a shell of what
it was is sad.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
And specifically when you talk about CBS.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Yes, we just got word John Dickerson, the co anchor
of the evening news program, is stepping down.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Two days or three days ago.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Well I've lost count now.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
But no word about whether or not his co anchor,
Maurice Dubois is sticking around. But certainly, Barry Wise, this
has been anticipated. She actually and this has been acknowledged,
has even floated names around about who she'd like to
bring into CBS News. She wants a diversity of opinion
and a diversity of culture. And I'm not talking about black, brown, white,
(08:50):
We're talking about political diversity.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Yeah, because they see it for so long, some do
as it's been one voice and one side there say okay, fine,
thank yourself out. There's just a matter of Look, it's
important to there are plenty of folks listening morning shows,
you all talking about it so fondly. It has never
been a part of my life, is not a part
of my day. There are people who have no clue
(09:14):
about broadcast morning shows. There folks probably under the age
of you take a poll walking down the street under
twenty one name a couple of morning show anchors might
take them a minute.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Yeah, I bet you. They wouldn't be able to.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
They might even have a hard time coming up with
the name of the program at this point when you're
talking about that young of an audience, because they simply
are not watching morning news show, and the ratings will
show that when you look at the demos, it's actually astounding, and.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
So to that point, it's tough to justify this stuff.
So if you go back, Rose, I'm trying to get
my years right, So I'm gonna go twenty years twenty
years ago, what is this, twenty.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Twenty five, So twenty oh five, two thousand and five.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
That season the Today Show was number one, and they
were averaging that season about six to six and a
half million viewers. So you'll hear what I'm saying. The
number one morning show twenty years ago was averaging six
six and a half million viewers. The Today Show is
now in number two plays and their numbers now compared
(10:20):
to six million they used to get twenty years ago,
they getting about two and a half million now right,
that was their average viewership the last season, and they
finished in number two.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
Those were the days.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
I was at the Today Show back then MSNBC Weekend, Today,
Today's Show, and talk about the money flowing. These salaries
of the anchors were leaked out. You're talking Matt Lauer
was making twenty million dollars a year. We were flying
all over the world. No budget was too big, and really,
I don't think anyone realized at the time that was
(10:54):
the very end of the era, and things started to
change very dramatically after that.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Well, we were doing look not gonna it's not gonna
be an indictment of the industry. We're not gonna do
that class today. But the reality of the situation is
that you cannot sustain these salaries if you're not sustaining
these numbers. So we talk about twenty years ago where
the numbers were even then robes, when the Today Show
is getting six and six and a half CBS mornings,
(11:20):
it was getting about three, like half the audience back then.
Now one point nine to four million viewers is the average.
So you cannot justify being in third and paying I
guess whatever salary it might be it just the numbers
don't work out.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
And when you look at the demo, which is what
the advertisers are really looking at in terms of who
they're trying to advertise for, and that's what is that
twenty is twenty five to fifty.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Four, and then there's an eighteen to forty nine.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Right, twenty five to fifty four.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
You've got money, you've got experience, and they're trying to Obviously,
the younger demos even may be more important in moments
because you're trying to get viewers to establish a pattern
and to come back to you so that advertisers can
have someone to advertise to for many, many years. But yeah,
they only have three hundred. They have less than three
hundred and fifty thousand folks watching who are in that
(12:17):
coveted demo. That's a drop in the bucket. I mean,
what is that one percent of our population? Wow?
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Three forty six. It's just to see it. It's been
going this way and people have been warning about it,
and we used to hear it all the time in
the hallways. Your industry is going away and that we say, yeah, yeah, yeah,
and we did we kept I say we as a
part of this industry kept holding on, and some of
that was holding on to hope, not necessarily changing any strategy.
(12:48):
You look at every morning show and it looks pretty
much the way it did twenty years ago. A couple
of anchers sitting behind the desk. There's some movements, some
new graphics, toss the weather.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
It looks the same. It does.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
It really does. So hasn't changed to evolve to what
maybe people want in their intention spans And.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
This is where we are, yeap, that is where we are,
and it's reported no one ever knows for sure, but
the last report Gail King just had signed a one
year edition last May, and she signed for ten million dollars.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
That's what That's what the report is. That's how much
she makes.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
And yeah, that's tough to justify when you have ratings
like we just talked about.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
And again she does, I think, a fantastic job. There
was a just a there is a way that she
goes about that I appreciate, right. I think people call
her Auntie a lot of times. She does. She comes
off sometimes, especially early on, she wasn't that.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Well.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
She didn't look like she was media trained at a
journalism department somewhere. She was just being herself, and there
was something warm about the way she handled r Kelly
is a that's the best example, Robert Robert, when he's
getting up flailing almost dangerously close to her. Robert, that is,
I guess an appeal she has that I absolutely love.
(14:06):
I hope you stays. I hope she sticks around forever.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
There aren't many journalists like her. And you mentioned her warmth,
her authenticity. She's real and she's not putting on airs,
and I do think that that is something that you
don't often see. People are too polished, they're too perfect,
they're too concerned about what other people think of them.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
She doesn't have any of those traits. She really does have.
She's somebody who you feel like you can trust.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Yeah, I appreciate that, even her. Again, this is another big,
high profile moment they went does she went to space.
That's how big of a star she is oway there.
That's what she brings to that place. And she runs
in circles with these folks, a lot of them. She
has access to them outside of being with CBS. She
leaves CBS. She's got these friends already. But it was
that space trip you talk about her authenticity. You remember
(14:54):
when she rang that she.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Was so scared please, She wasn't even trying to tell
like she was brave in that moment, she was scared
to death. That it was the phase I would have had, yes,
And it was so relatable because yes, I think anybody
who's actually being honest probably would look and feel the
same way.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
That was one of her best TV moments in my opinion,
and she was authentic. But all of this being talked
about the reporting from Variety, The conversation is going on
everywhere right now. But what is CBS News saying about it? Yes,
they had to respond. Stay here, we'll tell you what
their statement was.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Continuing our conversation now about this very detailed and fairly
significant headline that we got from the credible news gathering
agency of Variety magazine. And they are reporting that Gail
King is expected to leave her position as the morning
show anchor at CBS News. And they say amid a
(16:02):
CBS News overhaul.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
So the.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
I guess they're suggesting that it might not be her choice,
it might be CBS's choice.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
No one really knows, but they say.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
That they have four sources who have knowledge of this conversation,
and obviously their reporting was significant enough for CBS to
release a statement.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
And this is where it for me, at least, I'm like, oh,
this is real. Pay attention to these, to the wording.
Governments are really good at it. Politicians are really good
at it. Put out statements that seem to be denying something,
but certain things get left out. So this is how
(16:47):
CBS News responded to Variety quote, there have been no
discussions with Gail about her contract that runs through May
twenty twenty six. She's a truly valued part of CBS
and we look forward to engaging with her about the future.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
They did not deny that she would be leaving CBS
Morning Show whatever it's called, CBS This Morning, This Morning
Morning Stop, Oh my gosh, CBS Mornings. Okay, So they
did not deny that, and they just said they haven't
had a discussion with Gail. They could have been talking
to her agents, her representatives, and so that would still
(17:31):
be true if they were having conversations with her people.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
You know, I'm very literal, right in all we do
in our relationship, everything we talk about it.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
Is to an annoyingly specific yes.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
I take you at your word. And I am only interpreting,
not looking for a meaning. I am taking you for
what you say.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
What I meant to say.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
We don't want to hear it.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
You know what I really meant was.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
I'm just telling you what CBS said. And they say
there have been no discussions with about her contract. There
are no discussions with her about her contract that runs
through May twenty twenty six. Why did they need to
include the fact that the contract is up in May
of twenty twenty six. Now, Flip Coin, who knows? We
look forward to engaging with her about her.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Future, which could be a number of positions.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
But it means it's uncertain.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
You come out and say we love this woman, she
is everything to us, and we hope she never leaves
that chair. You don't even show a sign of support
for her in what she's currently doing.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Now.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
I don't know what discussions were had before this statement
went out, but I don't like that. I know what
it feels like to not be supported by the place
where you're working. You gotta say, yes, we know she's
a value part of CVS. We watch, we get e gate,
we look forward to engaging with her. This almost sounds
like us versus her like, we're gonna come to battle
(18:58):
and figure out I don't like that much. I get it,
and we get the business ropes. We get that what
they put out and why they had to put this out, well,
that sucks. It sucks.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
It does, and no word from Gail King herself. And
we actually watched Friday morning's broadcast just to see if
she would acknowledge it or say anything. We highly doubted
that she would, but just in case she did not.
But the big question is would she want to stay
after being taken off the show?
Speaker 3 (19:29):
Could she?
Speaker 2 (19:33):
I don't even want to say say face because she
may not want to stay on the show. It may
be her choice, and this statement from CBS News might
have been a reaction to them knowing she doesn't want
to stay on the show. We don't know what's going
on behind the scenes, and we don't know where her
head is. But there have been situations when it has
been that person's choice, whether it was a financial decision
(19:54):
or what. But lester Holt decided to stay and continued
to do some date lines just to keep his you know,
his toe in the water, his foot in the game,
and that can be nice. And we've seen other folks
like Diane Soyer do the same thing when she left
World News tonight, and so that's not unheard of at all.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
But it also might be her choice. And that's a
grind getting up every single day at that time. Yeah,
that's a lot on her. Maybe she's I mean, she's
seventy now. Maybe she wants to kick back and take
it easy for a little bit. Maybe she can get
her own show, some kind of talk situation. There's all
kind of streaming options. She yeah, But at the same time, bro,
given all the turmoil, she might say, you know, let
(20:32):
me go ahead and get on out of here. Well,
just let it go and go live my life.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
And seeing other prominent journalists take a truly what seems
to be a moral stand, or at least a stand
of integrity or ethics, journalism ethics, she may feel like
she's in really good company to do so, and she'll
be on the right side of history for heading out.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
He look, CBS, they have to they have to have
to handle this well because Gail generally speaks, is beloved, right,
She's not necessarily a figure, not until I think, what
was it the space trip that she became polarizing to
a certain degree, and that might have had a lot
to do with one of her mates that was on
(21:12):
the capsule with her. But still she has, for the
most part, enjoyed warmth from the audience. Yes, if CBS
is seen in any way shape of on pushing her
out the door, that might struggle. They might struggle to
hold on to some of the audience they have right now.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
I wonder how much they care about that. And you
just said the most important part hold on to the
audience they have right now.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
They want to bring in a whole different audience.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
They want to bring in a whole other segment of
America to watch and trust mainstream news in a way
that many believe those folks have been disenfranchised it franchised from.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
And a big step in getting those people to watch
you is probably saying, hey, we just got rid of
Oprah's best friend. That would happidly work in some circles,
would it not. Yes, well, yes, that might be part
of the strategy as well.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
We will have to wait and see what happens, if
Gail says anything, if CBS says anything further, but certainly, yeah,
this is how many months away.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Are we from that five, six seven, So.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Certainly word will have to come soon enough. But things
are for sure changing.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
It'll be a big May over there, the morning and
the evening, right, Colbert is up in May.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Yes, yes, man, lots of changes, all right.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Thank you so much everyone for listening to us on
this Saturday.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
I may be Robuck alongside TJ.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Holmes.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
We hope you all have a wonderful week on this Saturday.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Saturday.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
Yeah it's a Friday. Yeah wow, man, I'm losing it.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
I want to get to the weekend too, baby, but
slowly down, all right. We'll talk to Gus soon.
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