Legally Brunette: Ruby Franke

Emily and Shane discuss the crime that Ruby Franke committed against her children while under the guise of a family vlogger and devout Mormon mom. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi guys, Welcome to another episode of Legally Brunette. I
will be your host Emily Simpson with my co host
Shane and we don't really have any updates on any
other cases, but I thought what we could do is
at the top of every podcast episode is we just
kind of talk a little bit about the crime going
on in the week, some interesting things. So I don't
know if you've heard of this, but there is a

(00:23):
recent case that popped up that I found truly disturbing
yet interesting. It's Kimberly's Sullivan. I don't know if you
heard this, but so Waterbury Police and fire responded to
Kimberly Sullivan's home around eight forty two pm on February seventeenth,
So this just recently happened. Sullivan was able to evacuate
her home while her step son remained inside and was

(00:45):
later assisted out by Waterbury firefighters. This is what the
police said. The police report the man was suffering from
smoke inhalation and exposure to the fire. According to the department,
her step son, who is five foot nine, thirty two
years of logo that was in there for twenty years.
He weighed only sixty eight pounds sixty eight pounds. First
of all, I think our sons that are ten way

(01:10):
around fifty five to sixty pounds.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
No, I can't even imagine.

Speaker 1 (01:13):
And they are I don't even know how tall are they.
They're not even five feet tall, four feet and they're
tiny for their age and they're ten. So you're talking
about a five foot nine, thirty two year old that
weighs sixty eight pounds. So, while he was being treated,
the step son told the first responders that he intentionally
set the fire in his upstairs room using a lighter,
hand sanitizer and paper.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
Oh oh smart. It was a little risky, but it
was smart. He was trying to escape.

Speaker 1 (01:37):
It was yeah, he was trying to escape. He stayed in.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
She just smothered her with a sanitizer, Yeah, throwing her
out the window.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
Well, that was he should have furthered his plan. I
wanted my freedom. He then alleged that Sullivan, who is
his stepmom, had been held holding him captive for over
twenty years since he was eleven years old. So the
step mom was arrested wins March twelfth and held on
a three hundred thousand dollars bond over allegations of crimes

(02:05):
against her step son. She is accused of first degree assault,
second degree kidnapping, first degree unlawful restraint, first degree reckless endangerment,
and cruelty to persons, and she has denied all of
these allegations. She posted bond last Thursday. She appeared briefly
in Superior Court on Thursday and declined to make any
statements before the judge and denied prosecutor's request to place

(02:27):
her under house arrest. Sullivan will be allowed to travel
within Connecticut where this took place, though she will have
to keep in close regular contact with probation officers. She
denies all of the allegations. My first thought when I
was reading this is where is the dad? But then
as I further investigated read more about the story, the
dad had died and then the step son was left

(02:50):
living with the step mother. So the steps on lived
on what place described as a back storage space on
the second floor of the residence. It was an eight
foot by nine foot space that had angled ceilings with
no heat in the winter and no air conditioning in
the summer. He said that a lock had always been
on the outside of his door, and it evolved from

(03:12):
a chain to a padlock and eventually to one of
those slide bolt locks. So the dad died in twenty
twenty four, which means, yeah, the father was a part
of this, so the step home was just continuing on
with the way that this child apparently had been treated.
So following his father's death, the step son would only

(03:33):
be let out as this is what he alleges that
he was only allowed out one minute a day to
let the family dog out into the backyard, and that
he was locked in this small room between twenty two
to twenty four hours a day. He also alleges that
he was only fed two sandwiches and given two small
water bottles. I guess that's per day, two sandwiches and

(03:55):
two small water bottles, and that he was forced to
use newspapers to dispose of like when you ask go
the bathroom. In order to even bathe himself, he was
forced to ration the drinking water he was given, and
he was not provided any soaper shampoo. He hadn't had
a haircut in three years, his only He claims that

(04:17):
his only real connection to the outside world was a
radio that apparently was kept outside of his bedroom, so
he has a calendar in a radio. That's how he
keeps track of time. And for his education, I guess
he's only reading at a fourth grade level, but he
was given three to four books a year, and he
told police that he used the books and a dictionary

(04:38):
to ultimately educate himself. He also told police that he
knew hand sanitizer was flammable because he had read about that.
So that's where he came up with the plan to
start the fire, so that the fire police so that
the fire.

Speaker 2 (04:50):
Is very lucky because he could have very well been trapped.

Speaker 1 (04:53):
Yeah, he did get lucky that he was rescued.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
I'm glad to do that.

Speaker 1 (04:57):
There was a former principle of this elementary school where
he used to go to, and the principal said that
there were concerns raised by teachers and him. He claims
that we knew it, we reported it, and not a
damn thing was done. That's the tragedy of this whole thing.
So apparently this kid when he was in school, when
he did go to school, that he was extremely small

(05:17):
and thin, and when teachers asked him questions, he told
them that he wasn't allowed to have food at home.
He said that teachers would even bring food in for
the student. After noticing that he was stealing food and
he was eating out of the garbage, the principal told
a news team in Connecticut or whatever this news cycle
is that they were on that he and his teachers.

(05:39):
The team made multiple calls to the boy's stepmom, Kimberly Sullivan,
and also called the Department of Children and Families at
least twenty times by the fifth grade.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
What does it take to get their attention?

Speaker 1 (05:50):
I have no idea. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (05:52):
Apparently the fire department apparently.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
Yeah, that's his last recourse was that he had to
set a fire fire chief.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
My goodness.

Speaker 1 (06:00):
So by the fifth grade, he never came back to school,
and the teachers and the principill never saw him again.
And now this elementary school is closed. But I mean,
there's over twenty calls to DCF and nothing happens.

Speaker 2 (06:12):
Thank goodness. He's hopefully you can transition.

Speaker 1 (06:16):
Why how do you if you're sixty eight pounds, you're
completely malnourished, how do you recover from that? Is that blossful?

Speaker 2 (06:23):
I would imagine it is. But it's going to take time,
and you can't just like pick out the first day
you have to slowly introduce foods and stuff.

Speaker 1 (06:31):
Okay, So the question is did anyone else know? And
apparently the man said that in addition to the stepmother
and his father knowing about what was going on, he
has two half sisters and a late grandmother that we're
aware of his captivity of the boy man his name
is not given out, so we don't know what his
name is. It's kept private, but he claims that his
late father would occasionally let him out of his room

(06:53):
for longer periods to watch television with him or do
yard work together. He said the last time he had
actually left the property altogether was around age fourteen or fifteen,
and that was to dump yard waste with his father,
and that his captivity and restraint got even worse after
his dad's death. When asked why he didn't speak to
anyone about his experience, the man cited that the threat
of longer lockdowns and further withholding of food, and the

(07:16):
false hope that his stepmom would let him out more
if he earned her trust. So I guess he didn't
speak out because he was worried that there were Well, obviously,
if there's teachers and principles that know about it, and
they're making phone calls and nothing happens. This man has
no faith in humanity at all, so it's not like
he's going to go tell someone because he doesn't feel
like there's any type of And he knows that his

(07:36):
half siblings know, and he knows that his grandmother knows,
and he knows that his dad was involved in it.
This man was failed by everyone, not only his family,
but society. The stepmom has an attorney, and the attorney
tells people that his client, Kimberly Sullivan, was not the

(07:58):
one making choices about how our step son should be racing,
that it was ultimately the late husband and the boy
who was the boy's father. However, as for the victim's
allegation that he is on now.

Speaker 2 (08:07):
Because she got caught, right, I mean, he died in
twenty four Why didn't she do anything? Why does she
speak up to her husband then? I mean whatever, Why
wasn't her the loser? They just need to put her
in a freaking hole and give her, you know, two
small bottles of water for twenty years. That's what they
need to do.

Speaker 1 (08:27):
I agree. So the stepmamas do back in court on
March twenty six D hands her phony charges of assault
in the first degree, kidnapping, and all those other charges
that we went through. So we will see what happens
with this case. I think her defense is pretty weak.
It's basically like, oh, it was it was the dad.
I was just following through with his wishes. But this

(08:48):
is a terrible, terrible story.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
Being named Karen doesn't help. Yes, yeah, that's another person
making that name look bad.

Speaker 1 (08:57):
All right, So that was an awful story, but that
was the I'm not going to happen recently in the news,
which it is compelling. It is interesting to talk about.
I do feel sorry for him, and hopefully he gets
the help that he needs and he can move on
and be a functioning member of society. But I don't
know how you do. Not only is he physically impaired,
but socially mentally. Oh I don't know.

Speaker 2 (09:16):
That guy doesn't know you? No? Was it twenty years?
My goodness?

Speaker 1 (09:23):
All right, Well, let's move on to another enlightening, some
more positive. Well, it is crime, so it's not going
to be we're not going to be talking about rainbows
and unicorns. So we are doing crime. Let's move on
to the Ruby Frankie case. Now, Shane did not want
to cover this case. He does not like to talk

(09:45):
about child abuse. And if you've been following the case
or you saw the new Hulu documentary, you do know
that Ruby Frankie was in prison for abusing her two
youngest children is in prison. She's in prison currently for
abusing her two younger children. I think what's interesting about
this case and what there's a lot of discussion that
we can go through, is that it happened in Utah,

(10:08):
in Springville, which Shane and I used to live in Utah,
very near Springville. She's an LDS mom, it's an LDS family.
A lot of her I think rationale or reasoning for
doing the things that she does. She uses religion, and
I just think it's an interesting discussion to work our

(10:29):
way through. So you, being an active member of the
LDS church, I think that.

Speaker 2 (10:33):
It's nothing to do with it. I just think you
being a female her thoughts.

Speaker 1 (10:39):
No, I'm saying that I think you can add some
insight into the church's.

Speaker 2 (10:44):
The insight is she didn't listen to any of the
teachings and she went did her own thing and was evil.
That's what that's it. There's no like, well, that's it.
There is no justification, there is no teaching, there's nothing
that would lead her to think this other than she's
just a mess up person. Selfish. I saw one episode.

(11:04):
She's awful. Chaaw she's a terrible woman.

Speaker 1 (11:07):
Chasaw one episode.

Speaker 2 (11:08):
That's a terrible much to take to do.

Speaker 1 (11:10):
All right, Ruby Frankie, let's just give you a little
background in case you don't know the case and you
haven't watched the series. But Ruby Frankie is an American
convicted child abuser and former family vlogger who ran the
now defunct YouTube channel eight Passengers. That was called eight
Passengers because she and her husband Kevin have six children,
so there's the eight passengers. She was born in Utah
in January. She was actually born on my birthday. It

(11:31):
was January eighteenth of nineteen eighty two.

Speaker 2 (11:33):
Oh relate? Can you relate?

Speaker 1 (11:36):
Then you explain to us her thinking, I don't know,
she's a Capricorn. That's all I know. Ruby grew up
with three sisters and started a large family of her
own after marrying Kevin, who was formerly a professor of
engineering at BYU. First of all, can we just before
we get into this further. Can we just talk about
how the husband is a very intelligent, educated man, and
I think we should just remember that because we're gonna

(11:58):
get that entirely intelligent, well book intelligence.

Speaker 2 (12:03):
He did all the proper steps to build a family.
And that's what's sad is maybe I'm getting ahead. But
six kids, they all look healthy. Husband who's working, a
mom who has an opportunity to be with. She wanted
to be a stay at home runer, right loving yea,
not everyone that, It's what she loved. So she's she's
able to fulfill her dreams. They live in you know

(12:24):
what is a nice state, They have a home, they
have all these things. And then she builds a YouTube
channel in which she wanted she makes good money that
way to supplement her husband's income. I mean, they had
all these opportunities and then she freaking screwed it up. Well,
I you know, it's all those people that don't have
the opportunities and wish they could, and she screwed it up,

(12:47):
all right.

Speaker 1 (12:47):
The Frankie shot to social media started with the YouTube
channel eight Passengers, which Ruby started back in twenty fifteen,
and it was to chronicle the life of her wholesome
Mormon family in Utah. She eventually ended up with two
point five million subscribers more than a billion views, which
is insane to think about. YEA, not easy to do that.
I mean, I'm on TV. I can't even get that

(13:08):
many follow the family earned up to follow her footsteps.
I'm not thank you for that warning. The family earned
up to one hundred thousand a month at their peak.
That's what Kevin says in the docu series, that they
were at their peak, they were earning up to one
hundred thousand dollars a month. The videos were a window
into her life, showing a typical Mormon suburban family, but

(13:29):
some moments raised eyebrows. There were a couple of moments
that she she uploaded and I think what she did
not realize and this is what I'm also. I've also
read a lot of Sherry. Sherry Frankie's the Oldest Daughter,
and I've I've read her. She wrote a memoir and
I read most of it. I'm almost done. But Sherry
the Oldest basically says that whatever is in Ruby was

(13:53):
always there. This this narcissism and egotism and all the
things they were innately in this woman, and then the
child abuse was something that was also there, Like she
was not a good person, she did not have a
good relationship with her mom her whole life. It's not
like there was something that happens.

Speaker 2 (14:12):
It's not like she was a wholehearted like saint right
and everything was great and yeah, yeah, but call it
what you want. It's terrible.

Speaker 1 (14:23):
So there were some there were some videos at first
that started to raise eyebrows. It's so For example, in
one video, she could be seen telling her sons that
they would lose the privilege to eat dinner if they
continued play fighting. In another one, you can't do that.

Speaker 2 (14:36):
You can't punish with food.

Speaker 1 (14:38):
I know. I don't understand that. Yeah, I don't understand that.
Thinking that's where I want.

Speaker 2 (14:42):
To like, that's like, let's punish her with food. Let's
put her in prison and say you don't get any
food because you didn't sweep your floor or whatever it is.
Oh no, it's terrible. In another, it's hard for me
to listen to this stuff.

Speaker 1 (14:54):
I know what you're gonna have to because I need
your opinion. In another, she said that her six year
old needed to go hungry after forgetting to take her
lunch to school. I actually Share actually elaborates on this
in her book, and she says that what happened was
the teacher called Ruby and said, your daughter forgot to
bring her lunch to school. Can you bring her lunch?
And she said to the teacher, absolutely not. She needs

(15:14):
to just she needs to starve, basically, like that's her
way of learning to be responsible is to go hungry.
And so that was a lot of her A lot
of her thinking, according to Sherry, was that the mom
made it as if the kids had to earn her love.
That was it wasn't just given.

Speaker 2 (15:31):
And you know, I bet you that was really all. Well, yeah,
I guess if that's the way she was. But I
bet she also used that disciplinary style to get what
she wanted on camera, right, because I saw some videos
where she was like, pretend to be happy, make it
like you you're happy.

Speaker 1 (15:48):
Just fake it, breake it right.

Speaker 2 (15:53):
Don't she fake that you don't have kids and leave.

Speaker 1 (15:56):
But the video that did the most damage was posted
in twenty two. This is when her son Chad, this
is interesting that this is the downfall of Ruby Frankie
was that she's such a narcissist that she did not
even she wasn't even cognizant that what he was saying
in the video was bad.

Speaker 2 (16:13):
Well, she probably, like you said, with Blake Lively around
a bunch of yes people. Yeah, you have all these
people who follow her because she did portray a beautiful
family right, and that beautiful home right, like meaning the
living right and the interactions and all that. Right, So
people were following her authentically like, oh, wow, this is great.
I can learn from her. She's you know, inspiring. And

(16:37):
then so she probably got really consumed like, oh, I
could do whatever I want. Like she didn't realize like, oh,
you know, some people don't like this, and people don't
like that. It's just like, oh, everyone loves me, so
everything I do is awesome. Everything I touched her instack
gold exactly.

Speaker 1 (16:51):
And that's what had been happening up until this point.
So they got canceled in twenty twenty with one post,
which is crazy to think about, but one post.

Speaker 2 (17:01):
Even did I see that post? Is that that one
that was awful?

Speaker 1 (17:04):
This is what she was?

Speaker 2 (17:05):
Oh, go ahead, sorry, let me just suppose yes, it'll
make fun of it.

Speaker 1 (17:08):
Okay, the post wasn't twenty twenty and This is when
her son, Chad, revealed that his bedroom had been taken
away for seven months and that he had been sleeping
on a small beam bag and this is in the
basement after playing pranks on his sibling. The tone of
their discussion was light between Ruby and Chad, with the
story drawing giggles from Frankie and her child, but many

(17:29):
viewers were disturbed by the incident and they which prompted
petitions and tiktoks to be made against the family.

Speaker 2 (17:36):
I discrewed a little bit. I didn't find him to
be chuckling. She did. He was rolling his eyes. He
was not He was not giving in. He was like yeah,
what like he like she was like, oh hell yeah
it was a while, and he goes, yeah, seven months
and then she's just like giggle and laugh and he
was not having it. Well yeah, I wouldn't say he
spoke up and told this, but he was not making

(17:58):
light of it. And I think that's what touched the
viewers is if he laughed, if he chuckled, if he
kind of made it like, you know, this is how
we operate, people would have questioned it, But I don't
know if they would have canceled it would have been
on alert. But he was not happy sitting there talking
about it. He was not okay. And I think that

(18:20):
resonated with people like, oh my gosh, she thinks it's
funny and it's not. Well.

Speaker 1 (18:25):
With one video, Ruby managed to completely she creates a downfall.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
Think goodness.

Speaker 1 (18:32):
She posted that their entire YouTube channel because sponsors pulled out,
brand deals pulled out, no one wanted to be associated
with her. She lost a ton of subscribers, so she
lost everything basically that she had built with just.

Speaker 2 (18:47):
Actually wanted that out because that video was posted. Yeah,
it exposed her, but then now it probably made it
worse for the kids because then she goes off in
whatever direction she's going, right, Whereas if she didn't, maybe
it would have been the same crappy abuse.

Speaker 1 (19:03):
You're saying. It was just like a worse Yeah, well,
let me just write. Let me just I just want
to read this little passage about vlogging, because I did.
I wasn't aware of this, but Sherry, the oldest daughter,
in her book says that in my church, which is
LDS were encouraged to document our lives, meticulously, creating a
roadmap for future generations to understand their roots, and it

(19:25):
seemed as though the Internet was just an extension of that,
another way in which to do the Lord's work. So
this is why I didn't really realize this. Maybe you
knew this, but a lot of LDS families do vlogging.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
Well. Diaries are encouraged to document your life, your journey,
for future generations, for your offspring, for your kids. Okay,
then how much would you love it if your grandma
had documented in a diary all of her ups and
downs and her thoughts and feelings, and then you found
it today? How would you like that you'd be reading that?

Speaker 1 (19:58):
Oh? Yeah, that would be I mean, that would be
a wealth of information that would be so much interesting.

Speaker 2 (20:02):
She's wrong by not doing it, but how how awesome
that would be?

Speaker 1 (20:06):
Right?

Speaker 2 (20:06):
That's that's what's encouraged.

Speaker 1 (20:07):
But my question is, because you're saying in the LDS
faith it is encouraged to journal and to keep diaries
for future generations. But is vlogging just an extension of
that because.

Speaker 2 (20:19):
We're in a digital age, I, without knowing for certain,
I don't think there's anything saying go vlog It's it's journaling, Okay.

Speaker 1 (20:28):
But what's your what's your take on vlogging. I mean,
what do you think because Sherry, the daughter, the oldest daughter,
has spoken and you're tall like she's gone before the.

Speaker 2 (20:41):
Well, I think with involving children, if you want to vlog,
then you do so. Like let's say, let's say you
want to do a cooking show, right and you want
to just experience and I know, let's make belief for
a moment that you cook, okay, and then you vlog
and you're sharing and you're loving and it's their hobby.
And then the kids are incidnolog to that. So they

(21:02):
come and they try the food or they help you cook.
But really you're the focus or the contents. But when
you start involving them or it's their personalities, it's them contributing,
it's them having to interact, and then you're then you're
forcing their interaction. That's where it's a problem. Well, if
they're just in the background and they're just by that,
you know, uh, adjacent, Yeah, that's fine, but that's.

Speaker 1 (21:24):
Not the way her channel was. So her channel was
just revolved around the kids in their lives. She also
created a lot of scenarios that I think I think
she went out of bounds where she was talking about
like shopping for a brawl with her daughter, or like
their first period, or like you know, waxing Sherry's eyebrow,
And she accidentally waxed one of her eyebrows off and
then posted it because she thought it was fun.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
It did it on purpose, probably, I mean, I'm sure
she did.

Speaker 1 (21:48):
So it wasn't It wasn't even documenting their family as
a real family. It was creating scenarios.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
He got expelled and she posted that everyone.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
Yes, he got expelled. So Chad, the oldest son, got
expelled from school. I don't remember what it was for,
but I don't think it was for anything. It was
probably for like.

Speaker 2 (22:08):
I remember, something on him. So he get expelled, something
to talk about. But then he got expelled.

Speaker 1 (22:13):
And this is how Jody Hildebrant comes into their lives.
Because Chad gets expelled. She Ruby the mom thinks that
her son needs all this help and therapy and attention
because he was expelled from school. So she is referred
to Jody Hildebrant, who is who is someone that had
been counseling Mormon couples and families in Utah. Now this

(22:34):
Hilda Brand Jody Hildebrant had established this therapy type of
I don't even know what it is, self help type
of thing called Connections, and she established it in two
thousand and seven.

Speaker 2 (22:45):
And what's her background, Well.

Speaker 1 (22:46):
I believe she was was.

Speaker 2 (22:48):
She married, Well she was married children.

Speaker 1 (22:51):
Okay, well she was married, but she was divorced and
then apparently she had children who were estranged from her.
Sounds quified to me why people trust her like a guru.
Like people were obsessed with her and her teaching.

Speaker 2 (23:05):
It'd be like you call him mechanic and he's like, oh, yeah,
I can't be there until Tuesday because my car keeps
breaking down. Yeah, I'm not going to hire you. So
why would you hire these people that? Well, first of all,
they met I have known the background.

Speaker 1 (23:17):
Well, I think a lot of people did, but I
think they overlooked it. This is where this is where
the line of religion and fanatics gets blurred, because I
would say someone like Jody Hildebrandt use the religion in
a fanatical way where it was very extreme, right, And
I think you can pull something from religion and then

(23:38):
just make it so absolute and so black and white,
and so this is the truth that it's damaging and
that's the kind of person that she was. So her
service is known for its courses on relationships and parenting,
which some former clients say are rooted in the principles
of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints.
And I think rooted is a loose term there, because

(23:59):
people can take any religion and anything in a religion
and make it so extreme, but then use religion as
a rationale or to reason, to reason why they're saying
or doing what they want. So there were some former client.

Speaker 2 (24:12):
Religion or not, she's a piece of crap, and they
did a bunch of terrible things to their kids. So
I mean, it's not like if you have another pan Okay,
like this Karen Reid that locked her thirty two year
old or whatever kid.

Speaker 1 (24:26):
Karen read is a whole different case.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
I know, it's a different case.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
No Karen Reid, Oh no, no, it's a different case.
The other piece of crap, Lady.

Speaker 2 (24:34):
Sullivan, solovon whatever these Karens that were reporting on. So
we don't know, but we assume that she didn't have
any religion to say I locked him in a freaking
room and give him two little bottles of water. Right,
it's still the end results of the same thing. So
who cares what their reasoning is. There is no good reason,
all right.

Speaker 1 (24:53):
So this is when when Ruby meets Jody hilda Brand
and brings Jody Hildebrant into their lives. First, Joe, he
starts meeting with Chad because Chad's been expelled and he
has to do these weekly meetings. Then I think with
the combination of meeting Jody but also their eight Passengers
YouTube channel being canceled, Ruby has to now immerse herself

(25:15):
into something else and.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
Everything and everything that she had lived for was taken away, right.

Speaker 1 (25:21):
So now she's immersed herself into this connection, big void
to fill, right, just a little bit with Jody. So
she comes in and she ends up moving into their house.
I think that's where it just gets really weird to me.
First Chad's having sessions. Then Ruby immerses herself into this

(25:43):
connections and she becomes like a counselor and she does
all the she does all the work, and she she's
making videos and she's a leader in this connections. Kevin,
the husband, is also having these weekly therapy sessions with
Jody as well, and Basically, Jody is like a man.
She doesn't like men. She makes that clear kids either.

(26:04):
I don't think she likes anyone. And I don't understand
why people like people jump onto her teachings, but they
do well.

Speaker 2 (26:11):
The sucker born every minute.

Speaker 1 (26:20):
I just wanted to read something that Cherry wrote in
her book. And this is when Jody. So, Jody actually
ends up moving in with the Frankies. And this is
because she claims that she's possessed by the devil, and
so Ruby has her move into their home and live
with them.

Speaker 2 (26:34):
Wait, who's supposedly possessed Jody?

Speaker 1 (26:36):
So this counselor that's in their.

Speaker 2 (26:38):
Lives, the counselor that's supposed to be inspiring and spiritual,
is now possessed by the devil. She's possessed by the
take her in the house.

Speaker 1 (26:44):
Well, Ruby takes her in and she moves her into
the house nice and apparently this is according to Sherry's book,
this is the conversation that took place. I guess. Ruby
calls Sherry and she says, JODI's not well. She's being
bombarded by the adversary. Her soul is under siege from
Satan himself. He's trying to silence her truth. So she's

(27:05):
moving in with us. We're going to help her get better.
So Cherry says that this her mother's unhinged guru, which
I thought was hilarious that that's what she called her.
I think her book is really well written. Moves into
their home and takes Sharry's bedroom. So now Sherry is
going to go to college at BYU soon. So after
Jody moves in, I just I think it's interesting to
go through the story. But also I was Sherry's book.

(27:26):
I just found some of the things that she really interesting.
It's written by Sherry, the oldest daughter, and it's called
the House of My Mother, And this is an entry
after Jody moves in, and she says, those few weeks
after Jody moved in where a total mindwarp, a bizarre,
chaotic blur in which each new day seemed to outwear
the last. Jody had taken up residence in my bedroom,
and once installed, she never left, lingering like a bad smell,

(27:49):
while I was relegated to the couch downstairs, a refuge
in my own home. So she moves in, and then
Ruby moves into the bedroom with her and Kevin, the
dad is sleeping alone in the marital bed. Now, this
is some weird stuff that's going on. And my question
is why is Kevin complicit in all of this?

Speaker 2 (28:13):
It might have been, it's not overnight, it's probably slowly
over time. Well, yeah, probably just trying to He's in
survival mode, just like the kids, you know, walking on
eggshells with this psychopath. And then she brings in her
psychopath partner. Now they're in the bedroom together. I mean,
if it was overnight, he would have flipped probably, but
it was over time, so he probably just became accustomed

(28:35):
to it and was in survival mode.

Speaker 1 (28:37):
So Jody and Ruby end up sharing a bedroom together.
Then Sherry, the oldest daughter, in her memoir, also says
that there was a night where she caught Ruby sneaking
out of the bedroom like with a robe on, and
there was massage oil and candles lit. So she's clearly
stating that she thinks that they were having a lesbian relationship. Yeah,

(28:58):
and so there's so many weird things that go on
in this. You're talking about two people, Ruby and Jody,
who do these connection videos that are supposed to be
teachings for people in the LDS church. To live their truth. Meanwhile,
they're having a lesbian relationship on the down low while
the husband is alone in another bedroom and the children

(29:19):
are being deprived of love and care.

Speaker 2 (29:23):
Yeah, no kidding. Are they still in the same house
or did they move?

Speaker 1 (29:27):
No, they're in this house in Springville.

Speaker 2 (29:29):
Still there, I mean in this timeline, there's still.

Speaker 1 (29:31):
A timeline there. This is the second home. When they
first started out making their blog, they lived in a
very simile dad.

Speaker 2 (29:36):
Focus on work. He just wakes up, puts his time on,
goes to work, I don't know, fine, and then come
home and does them homework with kids. And this is ok,
a good job.

Speaker 1 (29:47):
Okay, But here's my question for you, because the dad, Kevin,
seems to be even though it's hard for me to say,
I think he's genuinely a good guy. I think he's
just extremely controlled manipulated by his wife.

Speaker 2 (30:01):
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
But he's a member of the LDS Church, and as
far as I know in things that you have told me,
that the teachings of the church are that the man
is a good father and a good husband.

Speaker 2 (30:14):
And I mean just this is general good teachings and
you know, for everyone the man should be if the
man has children. The man needs to act as a father,
not as a roommate to the lesbian couple next door. Right,
all right, I just want to read one more, he said,
Know what you're getting at?

Speaker 1 (30:34):
Well, maybe I'll get to it later when I.

Speaker 2 (30:35):
Guess, maybe what you're getting at is he certainly had
some teachings right in his life? Right he didn't. I
mean he could have. We don't know his background, but
he grew up. I think he served a mission, a
church mission, He went to wy He did all these
things that you would think he'd have some common sense
for the household, right, And I guess.

Speaker 1 (30:52):
What I'm saying is I know that, like, what are
the classes that you go to on Sunday that are
just for the men, the priesthood classes.

Speaker 2 (31:01):
I'm just saying, how does he go down that way?
That's all we learn about is being a better husband
and a better father.

Speaker 1 (31:08):
But I guess my question is how does he go
to priesthood classes on a Sunday and then go home?

Speaker 2 (31:15):
Well? I don't know, maybe he wasn't going anywhere. I
don't know. You're saying, how do you yeah, he's he's uh,
he's Christian? On Sunday right right, and then on mondays
back to his usual self.

Speaker 1 (31:26):
I just I don't understand it.

Speaker 2 (31:28):
It might have just been he was just going through
the motion. He was just going through the routine. It
wasn't really nothing was clicking. I don't know. But he
is guilty.

Speaker 1 (31:37):
Not in a criminal sense, but in a moral sense, right.

Speaker 2 (31:40):
Yeah, oh, maybe in a criminal sense.

Speaker 1 (31:42):
So this I just wanted to read one more thing
that Sherry wrote because I thought this was very interesting.
Where she she does talk about her dad, She says,
I felt helpless watching all of this unfold. Dad, who
seemed like a shell of his former self, wasn't doing
anything to stop a shell.

Speaker 2 (31:54):
Of his former self. So he was just going through
the motions.

Speaker 1 (31:57):
I wanted to intervene, to shake him out of compliance,
but I didn't know how. I yearned from my dad
to find his backbone, to step up and be the
protector he was supposed to be. In the end, he
never even tried.

Speaker 2 (32:10):
I mean never even tried. Not he tried. She kicked
him out, He called the police. They didn't believe him, like, never,
not even tried.

Speaker 1 (32:21):
No.

Speaker 2 (32:21):
And that's and your kid's perception is reality. So that's
how she sees it sucks for him, right, that's how
he's seen as a father, because not a father.

Speaker 1 (32:33):
This because after Jody moves in, and then Ruby and
Jody are sharing a bed, it gets to the point
where there's all these control type tactics where, for example,
Sherry says she's not allowed to go into the bedroom.
She has a text her mom and asked permission. Kevin
was allowed to leave the house, but he had to
text Ruby and ask permission to come home, and she

(32:55):
had to allow him permission to come back home, and
he just went along with this.

Speaker 2 (33:00):
Then it got.

Speaker 1 (33:02):
Why so you can well see, look at Rubby, Frank.

Speaker 2 (33:05):
Look she did her husband. Don't complain. That's what you're
trying to do a standard here and be like, see,
at least I'm not like Ruby Frank Frank. Yeah, all right.

Speaker 1 (33:18):
Also, I'm going to pick.

Speaker 2 (33:19):
The story next week.

Speaker 1 (33:20):
Okay, well you can pick the story. Also, what also
happens is that Chad, the oldest son, ends up exiled
from the family. She kicks him out.

Speaker 2 (33:30):
At what age is like, and he's an adult child
now I think he's like.

Speaker 1 (33:33):
Eighteen or nineteen or something like that. She kicks him
out of the house, adult child, adult child.

Speaker 2 (33:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:38):
Then Sherry, the oldest daughter, ends up exiled. She's excommunicated.
She goes to college, but she has no more contact.
And then Kevin, the dad ex communicated, well whatever they
call it, I mean, whatever you want to call it
in a family. She has excommunicated from the family ousted.
So Ruby gets rid of Chad, Ruby gets rid of Sherry.

(33:59):
And then Kevin has explicit instructions that he is not
allowed to contact his children at.

Speaker 2 (34:04):
All, and he's obedience, and he's obedient and he doesn't
so he want.

Speaker 1 (34:09):
To upset the wife. Then they also talk about the
documentary how there are neighbors that are very concerned about
what's going on with these children, and that they call
child services, and that they text the husband like, hey,
you might want to check in on your kids, and
he blocks them.

Speaker 2 (34:26):
You know, I certainly am grateful that the neighbors were
aware and all that, and I don't want to judge,
but just generally speaking, if like you got to do more,
if you if we truly believed our neighbors had kids,
which our neighbors love kids. If our neighbors had kids,
no one has kids in our neighborhood. If our neighbors
had kids and we believe they were malnourished. They were like,

(34:47):
let's say our boys were saying, they're not in school anymore.
And we saw him once and he was malnourished and
he looked and you know, he was like stuck in
the home, and we had reason to believe it was bad.
I wouldn't just make a phone call and then that's
it and then rug my shoulders. Well, I don't know.
I would be like, no, I'm going to capture a video.
I'm going to go knock on the door. I'm going
to go over there with the police. You got to
expose it. And then if you're wrong, oh, well you're wrong.

(35:08):
And if you're right, then now it can't be denied.
Right If a police officer or a social worker or
a teacher or someone saw the child truly like unhealthy
and not how they should be living, it can't be denied.
Then something would be done.

Speaker 1 (35:27):
Well, I think you are the exception to the rule,
because I think most people would do the bare minimum
and then they would move on with their life.

Speaker 2 (35:33):
Yeah, you know, those neighbors, they have their own lives,
they have their own things that they're doing, and you know,
so it's not like it's really their responsibility. Well they
were calling though, I mean they were doing something and
that's good, and basically nothing happened.

Speaker 1 (35:46):
So eventually, this is where I don't think the documentary
really explains it, and I don't know how this happened.
But there are two middle children, so there's six children altogether.
The two oldest are exiled from the family by Ruby.
She gets rid of them, and I think that's under
the pressure of Jody too, because clearly this woman her
tactic is to isolate.

Speaker 2 (36:05):
They're probably grown, they could speak for themselves, they could
push back, so she's like, oh, we gotta get rid
of their threat to my new relationship with you, exactly.

Speaker 1 (36:13):
So if she can get rid of the husband and
the two oldest kids, then the two middle children end
up living with a neighbor. I don't know why or how.
They don't explain that in the documentary, but they end
up finding the two middle children in a neighbor's.

Speaker 2 (36:27):
House, and then those neighbors don't say, hey, why are
these kids living with us? Like, yeah, we're going to
take care of right now. But so obviously that's parental neglect.

Speaker 1 (36:35):
I don't know I have questions about that. So if
anybody knows anything about how those middle children ended up
with the neighbors and why the neighbors were caring for them,
and why the neighbors didn't know, it's not in the book,
and it's not in the documentary at least as far.
I'm almost done with the book, but maybe Sherry will
get to it, but I don't know. That's the mystery
for me. At this point, Ruby and Jody end up

(36:56):
moving to Hildebrand's home in Ivan's, Utah, which is this big,
five million dollar home that's like a like a did
you saw it? Did you see it in the videos?
That looks like a.

Speaker 2 (37:06):
Fort I saw a little bit. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:09):
So what happens is they take the two youngest children
with them, and you know it. Throughout Sherry's books, she
talks about how her mother, Ruby had issues with the
two youngest, always saying that they needed to be punished,
and there was even an example she gives where they
had a Christmas and she gave gifts to all of
the kids except for the two youngest, and the two

(37:31):
youngest had to sit and watch their siblings open Christmas
gifts and they got nothing and then she made them
clean up the wrapping paper. And I don't know what
it was. I don't know why, but for some reason
she had some I mean, she didn't like any of
her kids, obviously, but the two youngest were I think
got the brunt of her.

Speaker 2 (37:51):
Well. I imagine her behavior got worse and worse and
worse and then and the youngest children are the one
that you can control the most, and they're going to listen, right,
So it just got worse for them.

Speaker 1 (38:06):
So one of Frankie's children, it was the boy, escaped
Hildebrand's home and you and Ivan's utah through a window
and went to a neighbor's home to ask for help.
And this is actually where you can see in the
documentary the ring camera. There's the ring camera footage. The
neighbor comes on and he says, can I help you? Actually,
the boys walking away. If you watch, he rings the
bell and then he starts to walk away, and then

(38:27):
the neighbor comes on and says, can I help you?
And then the neighbors saw that he the boy had
duct tape wrapped around his ankles and wrists. So the
neighbor contacted law enforcement.

Speaker 2 (38:38):
Like badly to that duct tape. Like I had been
there for a while. It was tight, right, I mean,
I've never seen you know, It's not like it was
a good scenario, whether it's duct tape round.

Speaker 1 (38:48):
But the thing that got me because I watched that
scene a couple of times, and you're so polite to
the sun. The Sun was so polite because then the
neighbor says, you know, how can I help you? Or
what's this about? And he says, oh, it's personal business,
which you can tell right there by that statement that
this child's been conditioned to not talk about it.

Speaker 2 (39:06):
Miss that part. I heard the part where he said
I just need two things, and he goes, actually one thing.

Speaker 1 (39:11):
Right, But first he says something about it, Oh, it's
just personal business. So the boy rings the doorbell and
he tells the man, the neighbor, that he just needs
two things. That he changes it. He says I just
need one and he says, well what is it? And
he says, can you call the police, And then I
think he says something about you know, it's just personal business.

Speaker 2 (39:28):
And then to give that man credit, I think he
came out fairly quickly once he saw the issues. I
think there was a lady there assuming is his wife,
and they were caring, and they were calling the police
and they were they were on top of it.

Speaker 1 (39:40):
Yeah, And I think at first you can tell he
seems like an annoyed neighbor. It was when the kid
rings the doorbell, he's like, what do you want to
see the whole thing?

Speaker 2 (39:46):
Maybe the kid ring it like five times, or you know,
he's thinking, why is this kid you know? Here? But
but once he saw it was an issue, that man
you know, rescued him.

Speaker 1 (39:57):
He did, and he also broke down, which made me
break down. I will tell you that's the one time
during this whole documentary, which is terrible, but I didn't
cry until the neighbor cried. You can tell on the
phone with the police that he loses it. He breaks down.

Speaker 2 (40:10):
He saw there might have been some likely crafts is
going on right next door, and I never saw anything.

Speaker 1 (40:15):
So the caller tells authorities that the boy says what
happened to him was his own fault and that his
mom might come looking for him here soon, So we
need to get the cops here as soon as possible.
Upon arrival at Hildebrand's home, so the law enforcement they
show up they located another one of Frankie's children, also
malnourished inside a closet. This was the nine year old girl.

(40:37):
So the twelve year old boy is the one who
rang the doorbell of the neighbor. The nine year old
girl was still at home and she was sitting on
the floor inside a closet. She was petrified and spent
nearly four hours sitting on the floor before first responders
were finally able to coax her out.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
Shaved head too, right, head was shad.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
I think her hair was cut for I don't know
if he had much.

Speaker 2 (40:56):
Isn't a big deal because let me want that style.
But it's it's controlling them. It's controlling these kids, and
it's making them feel it's not human.

Speaker 1 (41:05):
Also in the documentary, you see the police officer find
her in the closet and he you can tell he's
very affected by what he finds, and he sits in
there with her.

Speaker 2 (41:13):
I think he told the other police officers, I'm just
going to stay here, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:16):
And he did. He sat in there with her. They
order her a pizza. I think he sits in there
with her and tries to talk.

Speaker 2 (41:22):
To her, sits down at her level, right six feet flat,
and you know, it's kind of like, Okay, I'm not
a cop. I'm just a person right now, I mean
in saleswords. But that was kind of the thinking eye level,
you know, and not demanding anything like let's go upstairs,
let's you know, interrogating, which is important, right.

Speaker 1 (41:41):
Yeah. I actually thought that was really compassionate of him
to do that instead of just you know, you go in,
you sweep through the house, you find a malt nursed child,
you can just pick him up and have you know,
call Child Protected Services and have him pick him up.
But I think they knew she was so she.

Speaker 2 (41:56):
Was traumatized trapped in this windowless room, I think, yeah.
Or if it wasn't wndless, I mean it was.

Speaker 1 (42:02):
No, I think it was. It's like one of those
escape room type of weird things that this house. This
house was very odd. It was it was like a
fortress and it had all these like escape type rooms,
and so Ruby kept a journal, but she also was

(42:24):
very explicit about writing about the abuse. So in some
of her journal entries, Ruby Frankie shared several first hand
instances of harming her two youngest children, whom she believed
were demonically possessed and insisted that they must repent. One
of her entries says, I told the boy he emulates
a snake. If he wants to emulate the Savior, he

(42:46):
needs to be one hundred percent obedient with exactness. The
body must engage in good work, and the good works
need to be painful. I have the power of God
and he must obey. This is some This is a
woman who is on a complete delusional power trip, fueled
by another woman who is her girlfriend, guru whatever, who

(43:09):
is also on a complete power trip. And they clearly
get off on controlling people and situations. And I don't
know what is what is the stance on, Like I
understand that LDS you're religious, but is there also the
belief that Satan exists and can possess bodies.

Speaker 2 (43:30):
I mean, I'm not saying that's what's going on in
that household, but that's what she's well and in her
mind she believes that's what's happening.

Speaker 1 (43:36):
Yeah, but I think she believes that's what happening is
happening because she's also being fueled by Jodie, who's saying,
you know, because Jodie's possessed by a demon too. So
she's clearly telling Ruby that her children are possessed by
a devils. I don't know before the boys escape in August,
her son, who I mean, unless they showed some remorse.

Speaker 2 (43:54):
But they show I mean, and not just that's going
to happen overnight. But the mom didn't show any remorse,
did she? She's just an evil person.

Speaker 1 (44:01):
Well, she apologizes during her sentencing, but when they first
when they.

Speaker 2 (44:05):
First apologized during their sentencing, Sorry, I'm not buying that.
So this Jodie lady, when when the police arrived and
tried to you know, arrest her or detainer, she was
fighting it too. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:20):
Well, she had her attorney on the phone.

Speaker 2 (44:21):
Yeah, I mean she was fighting it a lot, like
she was. She knew that she was criminal, and she
wanted she did not want the police anywhere near her.

Speaker 1 (44:29):
No, she had her attorney on the phone, and she
was asking for a warrant, and she was making sure
she was trying.

Speaker 2 (44:34):
To like I've been through this before, where's the warrant?

Speaker 1 (44:37):
Yeah, she was trying to make sure that they did
not search her home in any way.

Speaker 2 (44:41):
Because she knew she was criminal.

Speaker 1 (44:45):
Right, you're saying she's not delusional you're saying, you're saying
the woman was well aware that what she was doing
where criminal acts. Who was definitely okay with it.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
She knew the police were not going to be okay
with it and the law was going to come down
on her.

Speaker 1 (44:56):
So before his escape in August, the Sun who's not
identified because they have not identified the youngest children, previously
tried to run away in July, on a night when
he was forced to sleep outside on the patio, he
left a message for his mother and Hilda Brand scrawled
out of pebbles that read jail. We'll call when I
get there. The twelve year old was found by Frankie
later that night. She also describes her daughter as manipulative

(45:17):
and at one point cut off all the girl's long hair.
No more distracting with long hair, Frankie wrote in one
of her journal entries. The boy also repeatedly begged his
mother for basic care, such as water or air conditioning,
according to her journal entries. On July eleventh, the boy
told Ruby that he wanted to go to jail. According
to her journal, I mean he probably wanted to go
to jail.

Speaker 2 (45:37):
To the jelly, get three meals a day, and they
got some security.

Speaker 1 (45:40):
No seriously, or he might have said he wanted to
go to jail because she's consistently telling him that he's
evil and he's possessed by the devil, and that he
needs to repent and that he needs to work hard.
She also apparently made them do extreme physical labor to
wipe them of their sins and for them to repent
for all this evil that they possess. I think she

(46:02):
made them run in the desert and without water and
things like that. All right, so Ruby is arrested and
Jody is arrested, and during their sentencing, Frankie did apologize
to her children. She said, I believe dark was light
and right was wrong. I would do anything in this

(46:23):
world for you. I took from you all that was
soft and safe and good. Jody said she hoped the
children would be able to heal physically and emotionally. One
of the reasons I did not go to trial is
because I did not want them to emotionally relive the experience,
which would have been detrimental to them. She said. MY
hope and prayer is that they will heal and move
forward to have beautiful lives. Basically, both women took a

(46:45):
plea deal. They took a deal. They had four counts
of child abuse, with one to fifteen years each for
each count. So basically they're spending between four and sixty
years in prison. I don't know which it is. I
assume after the four years they're up for role.

Speaker 2 (47:00):
Do you know how that works?

Speaker 1 (47:01):
But right now there's sentences between four and sixty years,
and it's in the hands of the Utah role.

Speaker 2 (47:06):
Yeah, well, let's hope it's sixty.

Speaker 1 (47:08):
Let's hope it's sixty. I do find it. I don't
even know what it is ironic that Jody even has
the nerve to stand before the court and say, hey,
I'm such a good person. I'm not even going to
go to trial because I don't want you guys to,
you know, hurt anymore and want n the feelings, right, yeah, right,
So both women are currently in prison and they're sharing

(47:34):
us all with Yes with massage oil and and Kevin
is not allowed to visit.

Speaker 2 (47:40):
Ken's Kevin's next door in the next Door.

Speaker 1 (47:44):
Prosecutors claim that both Frankie and Hildebrandt were motivated by
religious extremism, which we talked about exactly also when I
was when I was watching this, there were some parallels
that I saw between this case and also the Gabby
Potito case, Because, first of all, in the Gabby Patito case,

(48:05):
there is a scenario where we talked about when the
Moab City police pulled them over. That was really the
window of opportunity where Gabby could have been saved. I know,
hindsight's twenty twenty and it's easy to look back on
something and say this should have been done, They should
have done this. But just to reiterate, if one of
those police officers would have made sure that she called

(48:29):
her mom from the side of the road and that
they heard the conversation, and that they they got on
the phone and said, hey, you know what, ma'am. You
know we pulled your daughter and her boyfriend over. There
were witnesses that claimed that they saw him slapping her
on the side of the road. Her eyes messed up,
her arm has scratches, He has scratches. This isn't a
good scenario.

Speaker 2 (48:49):
We just wanted to let you know, this is going
to be an investigation, like is there any history between
these two? Not so much. It could have just been
an investigation into this couple. Not so much like we're
going to tell your mom because she was an adult,
but it could be an investigation, but I should have
done that.

Speaker 1 (49:05):
I also think that there's just a moral factor there
where I understand that they probably weren't under any legal
obligation to make sure that she made the phone call,
but I would just think from a moral standpoint that
if they made sure that she got a hold of
a parent that day, the things could have turned out differently. Also,
the parallel that I was talking about between the Gabby
Patito case and then the Ruby Frankie case is that

(49:27):
there are also other times when DCFS was contacted multiple
times about the Frankie children and they never investigated. They
never followed this to.

Speaker 2 (49:36):
Me because you always hear these stories where like someone
called Child Protected Services as a retaliation, you know, like oh,
my girlfriend dumped me and she's a crappy mom, and
so then you called you know, d CPS or whatever
state you're in, and you call and then they show
up and blah blah blah, and then there's a lawsuit
because they cause havoc and this and that. But then

(49:58):
there's all these like valid cases and like they don't
even like do anything.

Speaker 1 (50:02):
Yeah, and you know, in the Ruby Frankie case, as
far as from my understanding, Sherry in her memoir claims
that she called herself over twenty times, like she made
multiple phone calls on behalf of her siblings yea, and
nothing was done, and not only her as the oldest sibling,
saying hey, I need you guys to check on my

(50:23):
younger siblings because I think there's some crazy things going on.
I don't know if my kids, my siblings are okay.
But there were neighbors calling as well. And again, it
reminds me of the Gabby Patito case because I feel
like there was the window of opportunity where those children
could have been saved before they were taken to Jody
Hildebrand's house and wrapped up and scarred and they're bound

(50:47):
and everything that happened to them. Anyway, that was just
me relating those two. Also, I just think that there's
such a parenting fail in both of those cases. I know,
I don't want to place blame on Gabby Patito's parents
because you know, I don't know the whole circumstance. I
don't know the whole story, but we did talk about that.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
Yeah, there's no doubt they're grieving. There's no doubt that
it was trouble as child. Sure they have their own regrets,
so we don't need to add.

Speaker 1 (51:14):
Well, we did talk about earlier when we talked about
Gabby Patito, that it just felt like there were opportunities
where either the mom or dad or both could have intervened.
But also, you know, it just we have to talk
about Kevin and just his He willingly abandoned his family.

Speaker 2 (51:30):
It's a dead beat.

Speaker 1 (51:32):
He cut all connection with his young children because Ruby
and Jody asked him to, and that he had the
ability to save them as their father, he could have.
He could have prevented all of this by just being
a stand up dad and putting his foot down to
Ruby and saying this is ridiculous. You cannot excommunicate me
from my children. I have rights and he never did that.

Speaker 2 (51:53):
Nope.

Speaker 1 (51:54):
And I understand a lot of people DM me about
this case because I posted that we were going to
talk about it, and I would say. The number one
rusher then I got over and over and over is
why did the police not criminally charge him? And my
thought is he didn't criminally do anything.

Speaker 2 (52:09):
He didn't protect his children.

Speaker 1 (52:11):
That's not a criminal. How is it a criminalize he
has a.

Speaker 2 (52:14):
Relationship with the kids and if he knows, he.

Speaker 1 (52:17):
Doesn't know though. That's that's his defense is that he
has no idea what's going on. Was that he completely
removed himself from his wife and children and he was
unaware that any of this is going on.

Speaker 2 (52:30):
So he has a duty to know that. The situation
is kids are in good or bad. You can't just
be like, oh, they're they're over there. They've been there
for two years. I don't know they are.

Speaker 1 (52:39):
Yeah, But he has a moral duty. There's a difference
between a moral duty and a legal Then why was
he charged with anything? What are they going to charge
him with being a bad dad? Because he being unaware
being complicit?

Speaker 2 (52:54):
Well whatever, sucks to be him.

Speaker 1 (52:57):
So Sherry wrote a book which I've read most of
I would suggest if you're interested in this case that
you also read it. It's called The House of My Mother,
A Daughter's Quest for Freedom. It's really well written and
it has a lot more detail about what was going
on within their household prior to their YouTube channel being successful,
and then also some of the things that Sherry dealt

(53:18):
with with her mom. And it's I don't know, it's
just really interesting. Here's some key points from her own memory.

Speaker 2 (53:24):
God, I do like when in a situation like this,
like Sherry writes a book because it is good, it's
probably therapeutic for her. People come to her and know
her story so they can you know, support her. And
she's you know, because it'd be terrible. She felt like
she had to hide this all and it's embarrassing. And
then also this sounds done, but you know, financially she

(53:45):
has something to support her. Hopefully she got paid well
for the book. It does well. She maybe she can
do public speaking or work with other victims, and now
she has a career. She has something for herself and
she can take care of herself. That's why I like
these when I hear stories of these victims writing books,
because hopefully it gives them something to transition into normal living.

Speaker 1 (54:09):
Here's some just some key points from Sherry's memoir. Basically,
she talks about how the child abuse started long before
Jody Hildebrandt ever entered the picture. Basically, what she says
is her mom was always that person. It's not that
Jody came and made her into someone completely different. It
was always within her What is that so?

Speaker 2 (54:29):
What is that so? And like, how does that change anything?

Speaker 1 (54:32):
It doesn't change anything. But I think it's more of
just recognizing that that that Ruby Frankie is just a
horrible person from day one, not that she was manipulated
by someone, that she was always fled it right. She
also paid Sherry one hundred dollars to wax off half
of her eyebrow for a clickbake video titled Sherry, I'm

(54:53):
so sorry So I was right?

Speaker 2 (54:55):
Did on purpose?

Speaker 1 (54:56):
Yeah? When Sherry disclosed her depression.

Speaker 2 (54:59):
She's taking six years and she guse her kids one
hundred dollars.

Speaker 1 (55:02):
She also claims that she never actually got one hundred dollars.

Speaker 2 (55:04):
I think she just like, I'll put it in a
college fund for you later, don't ask again.

Speaker 1 (55:10):
When Sheery disclosed her depression, anxiety, and suicidal ideation to
her parents, her father was initially supportive, but Ruby said
that all problems can be solved with prayer, diet, and exercise.
Sheerry went to her and said that she was very
depressed and that she had, you know, suicidal ideation, and
that she just said, you need to exercise and eat better. Well,

(55:31):
and then the dad originally said, I think you should
go to therapy, but then the mom talked him out
of it, and he just kind of went along with it.

Speaker 2 (55:38):
Don't talk to anyone, don't tattle on me.

Speaker 1 (55:41):
Ruby's abuse conditioned Sherry for sexual abuse by an older
church member. She does talk about how she meets this
older married man that's part of the church, and I
guess he's high up in the church. He ends up
sexually abusing her.

Speaker 2 (55:52):
Oh my goodness.

Speaker 1 (55:53):
And I think her rationale for why it happened, or
why she didn't say no, was that she had been conditioned.

Speaker 2 (55:59):
Yeah, you don't see red flags, right, you know? You
see someone that you and I would think is a
red flag. And to her it's normal because she's had
crappy people around her mom, dad, and lesbian lover.

Speaker 1 (56:10):
Included lesbian lover. Okay, let me ask you just your
opinion about this. So when Sherry eventually cuts off contact
from this older man, who, by the way, I believe
is married and has kids, and told her bishop what happened,
her temple recommend a document that certifies that you're worthy
to to enter and participate in temple ceremonies, was revoked
for a month. She claims that the older the older

(56:32):
man that did this to her face no punishment.

Speaker 2 (56:35):
First of all, people make mistakes, and there are people
in churches that make mistakes. So you can't fault teachings.
You can fault the men or women men. So if
they took her temple recommend away, they probably did while
they were researching what was going on. But you don't
really take it. It's all on the honor system. So

(56:55):
it's not like they took it away and said, you know,
raided her house and took it away. It's they probably
put it on hold while they looked into things. I
don't know. I don't know what happened, but I know.
It's also not a criminal court, so they're not really
going to bisciate as much as they, you know, as
a criminal court would. But they'll they'll you know, ask
questions and try to diffuse it and try to get it,

(57:17):
get it to end, and report anything. If there's anything
in front of them, they will report it. I've been
I know bishops that have have had to report things
and testify. So it does happen, and it should with
a bishop, is.

Speaker 1 (57:30):
There the same type of confidentiality like with a psychologist,
or psychiatrist or a lawyer. Yeah, is there is there
a bishop, bishop member?

Speaker 2 (57:40):
You mean like within the church. Yeah, I mean, I
mean they're not going to go They shouldn't be going
blabbing everything. So you're saying it's more if there's a
crime being committed, then they should be reporting it, absolutely,
But you're.

Speaker 1 (57:50):
Saying it's not. It's not a written doctrine. It's more
of like a moral issue that you just kind of
balance as to what's right and wrong and what should
be held.

Speaker 2 (58:00):
And they do the Japan book before. It's been a
long time, but I've read through it and it's very
much about protecting people and protecting the youth of the church.
That is the calling of the bishop is to protect
the youth of the church. So if this happened, then
it failed.

Speaker 1 (58:14):
So the children, now there are six children. The two
oldest are Chad and Sherry. So Chad has a little
bit of a social media presence. Obviously, Sherry wrote her memoir,
and I believe she's doing interviews and she'll probably if
like you said, it's probably therapeutic and healing for her
to write all this down, but then also to talk
about it. I do like in her interviews, when she

(58:35):
refers to her parents, she refers to them as Kevin
and Ruby. She never says mom and dad.

Speaker 2 (58:39):
They weren't mom and dad.

Speaker 1 (58:40):
So the two oldest Chad and Sherry, obviously are adults
now and they're doing their own thing. And then there
are the four younger children. It's Abby, Julie, Russell, and Eve.
I guess their names have been released now.

Speaker 2 (58:52):
They were all.

Speaker 1 (58:52):
Placed in state protective custody following their mother's arrest. Their father,
Kevin has since he's filed custody. He wants custody of
the children, and he continues to rebuild relationships with the children.
As far as I know, because I tried to look
it up, I couldn't find that he had been granted custody.
I think maybe it's still working its way through the

(59:12):
court system. So I believe that currently all four children
are in state protective custody right now. All right, Lastly,
maybe there is some good that comes from the story.
Kevin Frankie. He supports a new Utah bill. This bill
would require Utah parents to set aside money that their
children earned making online content, and it's headed by Governor
Spencer Cox. The bill would also allow adults to remove

(59:35):
online content they made as kids from web platforms. It
passed the US Senate twenty or the Utah Senate. Sorry,
it passed the Utah Senate twenty seven to zero in
the final hours of the twenty twenty five legislative session
back on Friday, March seventh, and it had previously passed
the House.

Speaker 2 (59:50):
That's good, that's something, but that doesn't control the behavior right,
the content.

Speaker 1 (59:57):
Right, This is the monetary right. Kevin Frankie testified in
support of the bill in February, recounting that the eight
Passengers YouTube channel his now ex wife launched. He called
the bill a great first step towards protecting child influencers
here in the state of Utah, and there is much
more to do in the future. Now here's my question,

(01:00:17):
so active Now, Well, one, I think that he has
a public image now and people are commenting on his
public image, so I'm sure not only do I think
he probably is legitimately a good guy. I mean, he
didn't do anything horrible. He was just I mean he

(01:00:37):
married her and had six kids. Yeah, but he was complicit.
I know what you're saying, but I don't think he's evil.
She's truly evil. But my question is he is now
divorcing Ruby even though in the documentary he still claims
to love her and care about her. And I'm like, man,
this man is just like he's just brainwashed. But my
question is do you think that he is divorcing her

(01:00:58):
because he has to for his public image, or do
you think he's still he's probably still completely enamored and
enticements in.

Speaker 2 (01:01:07):
Jail, though maybe he doesn't want any ties with someone
in jail because then he has to, like I don't know,
then he can cut her off.

Speaker 1 (01:01:14):
I don't feel like he wants to. I feel like
he just is divorcing her because it's like what he
has to do to restore some of his public image.

Speaker 2 (01:01:22):
So he's not remarried or anything like that. I don't
think so well, he can't be if he's still married.

Speaker 1 (01:01:28):
Oh, that's right. I think there was a question he
is illegal.

Speaker 2 (01:01:33):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:01:33):
I think there was an interview I read with him
where someone was asking is he dating and he said
no because he's still legally married to Ruby, which I
know in the church that even if.

Speaker 2 (01:01:45):
They're separated, you should wait till you're not legally married, right.

Speaker 1 (01:01:49):
So I think that's where he's at. So all right. Anyway,
that is the Ruby Frankie case, which was a horrific.

Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
Yeah, that was not in any way inspiring.

Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
It was not in inspiring at all. Again, Shane, we're
covering true crime, so I don't think we're going to
have a lot of inspiring stories. But thank you guys
for listening. We appreciate it. And if you have any
comments on Ruby Frankie or Gabby Patito, we would love
to hear them.

Speaker 2 (01:02:14):
Anything important that we overlooked or were incorrect on, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:17):
Feel free to let us know. Thanks for listening. Thank you,