July 14, 2022 • 54 mins
Ever hear a noise in your house and think it's your imagination? Well, it turns out it may just be someone living in your walls, watching you through an air vent or an electoral outlet. Terrified? Well you have reason to be as Leah and Demetri discuss that very reality with the Executive Producer of the new Lifetime series 'Phrogging: Hider in My House.'All that plus this week's hot topics which include; another Real Housewives' scandal, the danger of owning flashy products and a theft in the friendly skies.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
Hello, and welcome fact to another episode of Real Time Crime.
I'm your host b Lamar, and I have with me
my good friend. Oh my goodness, we're really progressing. This
is nice. Well, I mean, Adam and I did FaceTime
you on fourth of July when we were on the
paddle a swan paddle boat on a lake, which has
(00:31):
jumped up to the top of the list of some
of my favorite memories and experiences to be uh at
a Fourth of July party and get a FaceTime like
huh and and turn it on and see the two
of you on a giant swan paddle voting around the pond.
Was it was the surprise I never knew I wanted.
I'm very sad that that's one of your top favorite memories.
(00:52):
But also, you know, the pond is symbolic of Adam
living across the pond, so and how when you see
each other it's like lying on a swan with a
lot of pedal just so everyone knows he's not here
right now. He's hiding in my wall. But that'll be
interesting to you later when we get to our main story,
(01:13):
which is about frogging with p Like when you say
you're like fat with the pH. So not a real frog. No, no,
not a real frog. It's someone who hides in the
walls of your home or in the attic or in
the basement or anywhere in your home and stocks you
and watches you. But more on that later because that
is the story for our second half of the episode today.
(01:36):
And we have a special guest, Jessica Everleth, who is
the EP on this new show called frogg Gang, which
will be out on Lifetime. You guys, I am. I
saw the screener and I'm disturbed. Disturbed. You gotta listen
to this interview. The show is uh so cringe worthy
in the way that you just you literally are so
(01:58):
afraid to move when you're watching it. I literally sat
there clutching my blanket, listening to every possible noise I
could ever happen and trying to justify what it could be.
And then very scaredly, took a flashlight and checked every
nooking coronia of my house like a psycho. And did
you call Adam afterward and telling you we're scared? I said,
(02:18):
I need you to come all the way back to
l A. I'm scared, alright. But before we get to
that story. Let's get to our hot topics, shall we. Alright, alright,
first hot topic for today. Oh man, this is one
of those things where it's like, we gotta get Teddy's
take on this. Jen Shaw Real Housewives of Salt Lake
City cast member, please guilty to telemarketing fraud. Okay, So,
(02:44):
Jennifer Shaw played guilty Monday to defrauding hundreds of victims,
including some elderly, in a year's long telemarketing scheme. She
pleaded guilty to one count of conspiracy to commit wire fraud.
According to a pre argument. Federal sentencing guidelines range eleven
to fourteen years. Is in prison, although I'm sure she'll
go in the Martha Stewart route, which is just a
little ankle bracelet. As part of a plea argument, Sara
(03:07):
will pay six point five mill and forfeiture and up
to nine point five mill and restitution. She was arrested
in one while Bravo was filming the second season of
the show, and she consistently professed her innocence, going as
far as to stay in as tagline for the show
that said, the only thing I'm guilty of is being
Shaw Amazing and saying that is you're guilty enough that
(03:31):
that allowment I would lock her up. You're guilty of
being annoying? Who who was like, Yeah, that's a great tagline.
Her guilty plea came as she was set to go
to trial in federal court in Manhattan. They said that
since Shaw and others sold so called quote unquote business
(03:51):
services to alleged victims, including website design services to some
elderly individuals who didn't even own computers, I mean, how
much of a pos do you gotta be? Shaw and
others also identified and sold as leads the names of
individuals who they knew would be defrauded by others. I mean,
this is just trash human behavior. Prosecutor said. Shaw supervised
(04:15):
the salespeople who lied directly to the victims of the scheme.
She sought to hide her role in the fraud by
using encrypted messaging apps, placing companies in the name of
family and others, and setting up an offshore bank account
and business operations in Kosovo. She also underreported her income
on tax returns for several years. Prosecutors say Shaw spent
the proceeds from the fraud on her extravagant lifestyle. As
(04:36):
we trade on the reality show sentencing in the cases
scheduled for November, Shaw told the judge, I knew this
was wrong. I know many people were harmed names so sorry,
Oh I know. I feel so badly for her, Like
she just got caught up and she denied it for years, right,
said she had nothing to do with it, and she
finally came clean. And it's not because she turned things
(04:59):
around and she realized is the error of ever wig
she did. What people do they got busted, they're facing something,
you know, a punishment, and they're gonna say, oh, I
don't know. I've realized that was wrong and I don't
know what happened, and blah blah blah, you did it,
live with it. I mean. That's the other thing too,
is that I wonder if it was like a Chicken
(05:19):
or the egg situation where she had to figure out
a way to make more money to be more attractive
for the show, or if she was always going to
do this sort of like horrible behavior, if this is
who she is innately as a person, And I mean
I guess it did because since she's been yeah, so
never mind, I take that back. It's been since that
she's been scamming old people without computers for website services
(05:43):
and then selling their personal information. So yeah, that's way
before the show. Yeah, yeah, she's a bad person. And
then somehow she ended up getting fame for something else
and luckily, you know, in a in a karmic way.
Season two, she gets arrested, like the whole thing comes
crashing down. Potentially that's what she wanted, was fame in
(06:03):
the set and then and then it you know, she
lost it all because she made stupid I don't want
to call the mistakes because she was aware of what
she was doing. I feel like there's so much crime
involved with the reality shows. There's always something happening, and
it's very confusing. It's like, what's up with the background
checks on these people? Or do they have to check
(06:24):
the income statements to make sure that you know, I
don't know. I mean it's so interesting. I mean I
also think that she pled guilty because she knew that
she was going to get caught. Yeah. Probably, But the
thing is, it's it's real housewives, right, and this is
apparently what some of them are doing. There's a housewives
in my opinion, I mean that's true, but he's a
(06:46):
job just kidding. Well, I mean, and I know a
lot of people want to go to like, I have
zero tolerance for taking advantage of senior citizens kids. I mean,
I don't think you should take advantage of anybody or
con them or scammed them. But that's the works. It's
the easy targets, and it's the people that can't defend themselves.
And if you morally are okay with that, then you're
you're sicker than just that, you know, which is weird
(07:08):
to say, than a normal criminal. But yeah, I also
think that being on the reality show is probably the
thing that did her in because it brought so much
attention to her finances. I think if she had never
been on the reality show, she might not have been
caught because who no one knew who she was. That's
a good point. That's just my take, that's my heart's take. No,
it makes sense. And you know what good good it's
(07:30):
it's often it right, It's it's people being greedy, are
always wanting more in something that ends up being their downfall.
And that's exactly what happened here. I hear that, like
I want Adam to get a visa or a green
card and just him not being here is not good enough.
I want more. I just wanted to make this about
me somehow. Okay, but I'll be your downfall, That'll be
your uplifting. I'm very excited for us, for us, Yeah,
(07:53):
for all three of us together, when we live in
a home together. I actually have some I don't I'm
not gonna take about now. I have blueprints for a
swan boat that fits three my dream. I didn't know
I needed this until now. Also, I just want to say,
you know, text tech company sells our our personal information
all the time, our email addresses, our phone numbers or addresses.
(08:15):
All this information is getting shared all the time, and
they're always constant breaches or social scurity numbers getting stolen.
This is getting stolen. It's like at this point when
I see that there's been my email has been you know,
oh you're part of a breach, I'm like, I'm not
even changed my email address. Like find whatever you need?
What do you I have nothing to hide? Number one,
number two, Like there's nothing to get from there. You know,
(08:35):
it's just gonna be like scripts that never made it right.
And and trust me, you cannot sell those I'll know.
I'll see your ass and you know, I think it's
I think what she did is different because what she
did was prey on these people first, and then once
(08:57):
she realized that they were kind of gold standard for
skin ming, gave the information to other people so that
they could continue to be scammed. Right. Uh. And I
know I come across as like a high and mighty here, like, oh,
don't do this. So I'll be honest, though, if you
want to know what's really going on in my head
right now, I'm fascinated by the fact that she sold
website designed to people who didn't have computers, Like, how
(09:18):
does that conversation go? No, She's an amazing saleswoman and honestly,
I'd like to take a course from her. This feels
like a Jordan Bell for a situation where people are like, well,
you did something shitty, but how do we make money? Yeah,
you know it's she's a good saleswoman. I'm not, again
not condoning it, but I'm fascinated by it. Fascinated fascinated.
(09:39):
I mean that's like selling milk at a hardware store.
How did she do that? Alright, So just moving on
to the next story, speaking of stealing from people among
her stole sixty dollar role X Pistol whipped a woman
outside California Market. And look, of course it's an armed robber.
(10:02):
It's California, baby, We're a crime country now. So there's
the police are still searching for two suspects who stole
man sixt k gold rolex and pistol whipped his female
companion outside a grocery store on Monday. K ABC TV
captured the victims kneeling behind their vehicle and a parking
lot outside Ranch Market and Rolling Heights, which is near
(10:22):
l A on Saturday afternoon, and the woman screaming during
the frightening assault. Obviously she's pistol whipped. The pair were
set upon as they loaded groceries into their car. One
of the suspects, Pisto whipped the guy, knocking him to
the ground while robbing him of his luxury. We watch
the second attast attacker then assaulted the woman with his
(10:42):
weapon and the suspects apparently we're wearing black hoodies and
gray sweatpants, so just any boy in l A. And
they took off in a white dog challenger. I just
gotta say, don't park next to challengers. Anyone who's got
a Dodge challenger is looking for trouble that car. The
accelerator goes too fast for normal people. It just you
put your foot on and it's a hundred miles per
(11:03):
hour and you were just at zero. So if you're
partner next to a challenger, just letting you know this
could be your fault. I'm not saying they were partners
to a challenger. I'm just saying, look out in the future,
I think twice before you part next to a challenger.
That's our public safety tip, thank you. And also, they
had paper license plates. I just I like the idea
of it being like a paper plate, like a little
(11:24):
an it. Well, I'll give California this because not too
long ago we didn't have those. People would just have
a dealer sticker or whatever. There was no license plate,
and so people would not change their plates forever, so
it was impossible to track those cars. Well, the other
thing is that these robbers were between twenty and thirty,
and they both had semi automatic guns. Look, I just
(11:45):
think we I understand the right to bear arms. However,
I don't think any civilian needs a semi automatic weapon.
I'm against guns, but I just say, how are civilians
and semi automatic weapons. That leads me to believe that
they're either involved with the military, or involved with a
(12:06):
huge gang or in some sort of like big crime. Right,
I mean, like, how do you get semi automatic guns?
I don't know, And like you said, there's no reason
to have those. But when you look back and the
fact that these guys just got pistol whipped, which means
they were hit with the gun, right, I mean, this
could have been way worse. Yeah, I mean, look, I
(12:28):
think it's unfair to blame the people for wearing a
gold Rolex. You're allowed to be a human being. Those
things exist so that you can wear them. You should
be able to go into public and not be assaulted
and robbed. I don't think it's his fault. It's not
his fault, but you if you're going, if you choose
to do that, you are putting yourself more at risk
(12:48):
than not. So I'm not saying you're inviting it. I'm
not saying that you should. It's your fault investination, but
you have to be aware of the fact that if
you're doing that, you I am someone that's I feel
like I'm always alert on that alerted on stuff from
on high alert. I should say, I don't know if
it's from watching a bunch of stuff or reading stories
all the time. So I feel like I always know something.
When I walk into a restaurant, I scanned the room
(13:09):
and I'm like, Okay, that person is that or it's
not a it's not like a profile thing. But I'm
just look around to seat to know the situation. And
I feel like if I were to be wearing a
six dollar watch, which I would never do, I feel
like I would be constantly like looking around because I
would I would be on edge knowing that this is
out there flashing. Okay, I'm gonna be honest. We recorded
(13:30):
the second half of this podcast first, and Dmitri tells
a personal story from his childhood and says he doesn't
have PTSD from it, but what he just told me
lets me know he definitely has PTS. The second I
go anywhere, I look at all my surroundings and look
at everyone around me. That's not PTSD. That's just being
that's just being safe. That's being careful. Like the more
(13:50):
alert you are, the less you'll be surprised by something. Yeah,
I mean, do you think that there will be a
decrease in sales of luxury goods. I don't think there
will be. I just think people will probably wear their
luxury goods out less frequently unless they're around other people
who are also doing the same thing, like at a
high end nightclub where their security or something where it's like,
(14:11):
why do you have those high end things? Because you
want to wear them out and be seen with them, right,
So it's very like and I know there's people that
lock them up and only wear them on special occasions
and I don't know, to me, what's the point of
having that, Like it's not me to begin with, this
is not my style. But uh, if you had that, like,
do you want to hide it, you want to only
(14:32):
wear at certain times you want to? I don't just
I don't see the reward on that. The downside is clear.
We just talked about it. Yeah, I mean, I just
got an expensive item for the first time in my
entire life and it's you. I'm not, actually I am,
(14:56):
And I am treating it like a child, like I
put it back in its crib when we come home
and the crib has a lock on it. Yeah, because
that is what will happen to my baby. It will
be locked in a crib and not allowed to come out.
Don't just don't even put that on the recording. You
can't do that. What may I ask what this item is?
I don't want anyone to steal my baby? Well no,
(15:18):
but you can't lock them. There are froggers around, Dmitri.
What is the what is this item that we've indulged
ourselves with. Um, it's a bag. I got a nice
bag when I was in Paris with Adam and I've
never owned a nice bag before, so I'm never worried.
So now when I do go out, if I'm going
to place that I think will either a be dirty
(15:39):
or be like if I'll have to put the bag
down somewhere. Um, I usually just bring my backpack instead. Right, So,
but do you feel like if you when you take
that bag out? Right, do you feel like are you like, Okay,
I'm holding this expensive bag? And do you feel like
people are noticing it? Does it put you on it?
(16:00):
That's the that's the whole point of Maitri. But I know,
I know it's interesting because I think the people who care, notice,
the people who recognize brand names, notice, you know the
other people who also have the notice, and then I
think people who are trying to take advantage of you
also notice it's a double edged sword. I mean, you know,
(16:22):
it's also like, why do I care about people noticing
that I have a nice bag? Why do I care
to have a nice bag? Let's into that. I mean, yeah,
I I just um, one of our other producers just
sent a chat that said, Burke and baby like I
hear you. You know it's um. I think women really
(16:44):
enjoy bags and shoes. And I don't mean that in
a derogatory way. I think it's like a like almost
it's almost like a fun self worth thing to be
like I love this designer and there their luxury items
and I'm proud to wear um and I'm proud to
wrap this designer and it makes me feel confident, makes
me feel good, it makes me feel beautiful and glamorous,
(17:05):
and I enjoy all those things. You know, I don't
have any designer shoes. I'm working on one step at
the time, you guys, And uh, I just have a bag.
And also, um, I got sent some jewelry that is expensive.
You know, those are those orthopedic sneakers, you are those
aren't designer they're just general. Yeah, they weren't Balinciaga, if
you can believe that, And um, I would send some
(17:27):
nice jewelry. And I do think about where I wear it. Well,
you just but you just that's fine for me. You
what you just said makes sense to me. And I
think that's a perfect reason. If it makes you feel
good about yourself and it makes you feel you know, whatever,
it is, accomplished, confident, whatever, I think that's fine. But
with that comes the responsibility of being aware of where
(17:47):
you wear it and how you and how you carry it,
of course, and I think it's important insurance on your
unquote expensive things. I mean, it's just like, why would
I need a house versus a one bedroom apartment. I
just want the space. I have other rooms that I want,
you know, I have other I want to set up
a studio and do this and that. You know, It's like,
why does anyone want more? Why does anyone want something
(18:08):
that's expensive? You know, It's like why do you buy
a certain top because it is the right color for me?
It makes me feel good and confident when I walk
into your room. You know, some people you walk into
a room and you know, a plastic bag people aren't
gonna take it seriously. I think the first impressions are
a lot of this business and a lot about life too.
Like you go on the first date, the first thing
(18:28):
you do is see someone and whether or not they
care about wealth or items of wealth, they do probably
will care about aesthetic, you know. I don't know that
many people who go on the first date having no
clue what the person looks like. There are very few
blind dates, you know. So it's like you go because
you see their photos and you think, oh, this person
is attractive. It's the same thing with anything else. Right. Well,
(18:51):
I will say, I just trying to make myself feel
better by the way, Yeah, I think, and it's fine.
I think what you're saying is totally fine. Um. But
what I will say, which I just dawned on me
now and it's make come across as a slight, but
it's definitely not. The difference is no. The difference is
you're single, right, you you're with you have a boyfriend,
but you don't have kids, right, And so I don't
fear me as a person like when I was single,
(19:12):
when I was just me going places, I don't really
fear much, right, But when you have other people, especially
younger people that are that looked to you, and you
now you have to protect them. You become a little
So what I have warned something. I would never have
a six rocks. I just don't think unless someone gave
it to me would I have warned that is something
I need to tell you. You've got me a gift.
(19:34):
There's something outside your Yeah, yeah, I get um what
I have done more quote unquote careless type of things
or yeah, I probably would have, but now I'm I'm
less open to it because there's other people. Then I'm
putting other people in danger. I get that, and you know,
to each his own m it makes sense. But when
(19:56):
you have that baby locked in the crib, I think
you'll think differently as well. Well, busy, be able to breathe.
I just don't want anyone coming and taking my baby
a mentally ill Okay, So moving on to the theme
of today, which is stealing from our hot topics. American
Airlines passenger accused of stealing ten thousand dollars mid air
from fellow flyers. So he did this during the trip
(20:16):
from Buenos Aries to Miami on Tuesday. Diego Sebastian Radio
I feel like his last name is not pronounced radio,
but here we are. It can't be but right, could
be radio radio. I don't know. I wanted to roll
my arm. Let me live. That's why you have five
hours on your TikTok. Yeah. Leonmar allegedly also stole more
(20:41):
than fourteen thousand Argentine pasos, which is about ten USD,
and two credit cards from two other passengers during the
July five flight. At least one flight attendant noticed some
suspicious activity midflight, and, according to the affidavit signed by
a passenger, noticed that radio initially paced the aisle of
the plane and then took an unassigned seat near one
of the victims. The crime was discovered when a flighted
(21:03):
and asked the passenger to check her belongings and discover
that several items were missing. Uh so he's now in
custody and he was arrested by Customs and Border patrol
and after the missing items were found in his possession,
this is when he was arrested. Obviously. I mean again,
this goes into the same thing. Are are you just
(21:25):
like I don't know, are you? Are you going to
be more mindful on flights about what sort of bags
you bring, like would you might maybe not bring a
Louis Vuitton luggage because someone's watching and could steal. I
haven't actually personally heard of people stealing on flights before.
You know why because there's nowhere to go. So this
guy is an idiot, like he stole stuff. If you're
(21:46):
going to steal something on a plane, you have nowhere
to go. So if you're going to do it, and
it's not like I'm giving tips to these people, but
this is my opinion. If you're going to do it,
take something, Take something from the person next to you,
Take something for this. But the guy's walking awkwardly up
and down the aisle, sitting in different seats, taking a
bunch of stuff from different people. That's just that's begging
(22:06):
to be caught. And you can't get away. You're on
a plane. No, there's nowhere to go. I mean, there's
literally nowhere to run or hide. And this guy, I mean,
what did he I don't know what he thought. I mean,
he might have been on drugs, who knows. How do
you think you're gonna get away with that? But I um,
I think people do kind of let their guards down
when they're flying. You know, they're either thinking about not
(22:27):
dying and crashing, or they're crying watching a movie, or
they're passed out trying to get a quick nap in
before they get off the plane. And also because you
just assumed that no one would do it, because it's like,
where are you going to go? You cannot run from
this crime. I mean, I'm I don't know. I've had
a lot of weird experiences on airplanes, but it's all
just been with annoying people who have bothered me. So
(22:51):
I had to switch seats. Nothing to do with someone's
stealing from me. Yeah, well, but you go ahead. I'm
listening this One time, I um was flying to abisa
well and I dropped my invisilne case on the floor.
I was just like a full on Mr Bean at
this point, just like look, look, look, look like everything
(23:13):
was falling out and the case slid all the way
to the front of the plane, and the guy sitting
in the front was a very elderly man. He was
reacting like a spaceship like an alien craft had. He
was like what is this And I was like, I'm
so sorry, that's my invisible and he took it out
and put it in his mouth and yeah, I'm like,
(23:35):
they don't give you teeth, Um, they just mold the
ones you have. But yeah, and then I had this
rabbi once and next to me after a traumatic time
in Panama City trying to get back to New York
and all my flights being canceled and the airport being
shut down and there being no food and water for
over twenty four hours, and I didn't speak Spanish. This
rabbi was like, oh, you should have children by now.
(23:56):
You shouldn't be an artist. And I was like, I
have to move this seat. This was the most traumatic
part of that that I'd rather have my wallet stolen
than have to like listen to someone tell me what
I should be doing with my life. And I'm like,
you're a man of the Lord, you know, yeah, just
leave me alone anyway. Um So, Dmitri, do you have
any worse experiences on a flight? No? Mine are always
(24:19):
just you know, an annoyances. I've never had something, um,
super bad happened on a flight. Um So no, I've
never been you know, nothing where like It's it's more
like people get angry, you know, or people start yelling
or something like that at me. But people start yelling
and then it's just kind of like the flight attendant. Like,
I've been on a couple of things where they had
to like take them off before the flight left, but
nothing outrageous. I've never been on anything with with punches
(24:42):
thrown or anything, thank you know, thank goodness, anything too bad.
But it's you know, it's a you're you're in an
enclosed tube and you're in there for a long period
of time, and people's personalities come out in different ways,
so there's there's always the possibility of something. My favorite
thing that happened to me recently was there was a
girl who her her ticket kept beeping red and she
(25:05):
was yelling at the flight attendant. There's this huge line
behind her trying to get onto the plane. Everyone's trying
to get on the plane. She was like, scan it again,
scan it again. I just changed the ticket. This is like,
please scan it again. That's my seat number. And she
just had the completely wrong flight. And when she walked away,
I thought everyone was going to start applying because it
(25:26):
was she was. I mean, the amount of self righteousness
was unbelievable. I was like that saw that coming from
mile away. Yeah. And by the way, be gracious about it, like,
just even if that was the right, it's hilarious that
it was a wrong flight. People don't want to help
you when you're being an ass. I've learned this, and
(25:47):
I'm so glad she wasn't on my flight. I was like,
if this is how she is now, But then, to
be fair, I probably would have also been her if
I was very sure it was like scan it again. Anyway,
you guys, let's take a quick break before we bring
on our amazing guest for today and talk about Frogging,
which you're not gonna want to miss because it is
absolutely terrified. I give it a ten out of ten. Cringe.
(26:10):
All right, we'll be right back and we're back to
real time crime. You guys. I'm very excited about our
guest and equally as excited to talk about the show
(26:32):
that she is an ep on and dear God, Dmitri,
I don't know if you watched the first episode. You
know we get privilege information sometimes lucky us. Well I know,
I know. Yeah, that's my parents said. Um and and
the whole show is called frogging Hyder in my house.
(26:58):
Think about that. You already have a picture the picture
in your head is correct. The show is going to
premiere Monday, n Central. So everyone, we have with us
here our special guests today. Jessica ever left, Hi Jessica. Hi.
With you guys so incredible, haven't you here with us today?
I watched the first episode and we already told our
(27:20):
listeners were spoiled. We got an early copy, and I'm
blown away and disturbed and terrified and now thinking that
someone is living in my walls. I mean, everybody's going
to think that right after they watched the show. It's
incredible and there each one of them could be their
own horror movie. These are stranger than fiction stories. Um,
each one could be, like I said, its own movie.
(27:43):
I just thought. My thought was, these are all going
to be made into separate Netflix movies. Absolutely definitely. Each
story is almost as unbelievable as the next. Agree and
sorry to me, trade go for it. No, what I
was gonna say is I have a problem. I can
a news article and think, oh, well, that's weird. So
I did see one recently about someone that was living
(28:04):
in someone's attic, and I thought that's weird, but probably
just you know, on anomaly or something. And then this
show comes and you know, see the trailer and I
see the first episode and I'm like, crap, this is
something that happens a lot. So so I went from
being able to dismiss it to now being terrified and
like every little noise I here in the house, I'm like, Okay, well,
I got a whole community up there. That's great. Yeah, exactly,
(28:25):
It's more common than you think. And when we dug
into our research, we found two cases immediately immediately, which
means that there are so many. Yeah, and there's two
stories per hour in frogging, so there's twenty stories and
they're just they're just wild. Okay. So first of all,
(28:46):
I don't do well. I know we have a true
gram podcast, but historically I don't do well with horror.
Anything that seems like a psychological thriller really disturbs me.
And I did not sleep well last night. I do
blame you. There is a monster under the bed. Now
(29:07):
I'm convinced. Now I'm checking every closet door, I'm checking
every nook and cranny of my house every time I
walk in. I mean, that's what will happen to everyone
once they start watching the show. Absolutely, they're gonna have
to check their crawl spaces, their addicts behind any kind
of false walls that they have ums. I would prefer
(29:27):
a monster or a ghost as opposed to a real
person in my wall or in my attic. Bunny, you
mentioned ghosts. Most people believe that they had a ghost
in their house before they jumped to the conclusion they
had an intruder. That's what was really funny, because it
kind of starts off slowly, where things disappear or they move,
they disappear, then reappear somewhere else. Um food starts to disappear,
(29:50):
and they hear footsteps, maybe some kind of like disembody
voice that's really just a faint voice they're hearing from
another room, and they think they have a ghost in
the house. I would until they you know, I would.
I would rather have a pastor come into my house
and perform an exorcism. And I'm Jewish than for there
to be an actual human hiding in my walls. And
(30:11):
and Jessica, just to the listeners have a better understanding
in your own words, can you describe what frogging is
Frogging is My understanding is when it's not squatting, it's
when someone is living in your house at the same time,
unbeknown for you. So it's kind of like the movie
Parasite where the family was living in the basement at
the same time as the other family that's frogging. And
(30:34):
sometimes the house is the targets of the frogging, or
it's the person. So when it's the person, it's really
more of a stalking frogger situation, which is even more scary.
There was that image that I saw of someone removing
like the electrical outlet and just you see eyes peering
through it. So what do you what is the what
(30:56):
do you find is the most common reason? Is it
that they just need a place to live or is
it that they're doing creepy pervy stuff. Um, I would
say most of the time it's creepy stuff. Occasionally it's
somebody just needed someplace to live for free and see it.
But there are a lot of stalking cases, so yeah,
(31:16):
they want to spy. Or there's a neighbor who now
is fixated on the person living in a nearby apartment
and they they're like a peeping tom, you know. But
now they're frogging. They're living above their space. So we've
had a few of those as well. So it's it's
very scary, especially for a woman who lives alone. You know,
I would imagine. Yeah, I'm sorry. Are there any cases
(31:41):
where the frogger was allowed to claim squatters rights? No,
The people who were caught were arrested in various charges
breaking an enter room, stalking, um some assault charges. Yeah,
so it was it's a serious prime it's not it's
not swatting, Okay, And I just want to take it
(32:01):
back for two seconds and just talk about you for
a second. Your career is so well rounded and it
seems super eclectic. You know, you've worked on some iconic shows,
but it seems like true crime has always been a
passion of yours. I guess I'm just curious to know
what you love about true crime. Um Let started off
in documentaries and music, and I moved to l a
(32:24):
twenty years ago, and then my first job was working
on a true crime show with a famous blood spatter expert,
Dr Henry Lee. So I think that's what kind of
launched my career in true crime. So that's that's just
been my lane crime investigation documentaries and and also I
hate to bring this up, but we do know you
worked on the r Kelly documentary and just so curious
(32:47):
to know your thoughts now that the ruling has come
to light. Yeah, I mean, I'm real. I'm glad the women, Um,
you know, we're heard and there's been justice. He is
facing another trial. I think it's going to be televised
to so there's one coming up in August, so it's
gonna be interesting to see what happens. But I mean,
I'm just I'm still blown away at the impact the
(33:07):
documentary have and you know, it's a very Um, it
was one of the most difficult things I've ever worked
on with one of the most important projects, if not
the most important. I mean, you you brought justice to survivors.
That was the goal, and I'm really glad. You know,
I'm happy for them. Do you think that he deserved
(33:28):
more than thirty years? Um? You know, it's it's interesting
because I think giz Lane Maxwell was sentenced the same
week and people were talking about that that she got
twenty years and Artilly got thirty. So you know, I
wasn't at the trial. I don't know. Um, I just
know that the women needed to be protected and there's
(33:50):
he's facing a lot more. Um. You know, in terms
of this trial coming up in Chicago. Wow. Yeah, well,
thank you for sending some light on that. I mean,
we've all been following in that story now obviously for
a long time. M And okay, So moving on from
R Kelly. Unless a cat scream like of course, was
around a zoom when you work at home, you have
(34:12):
a daughter cab so he does enter, so at least
you know what the at least you know what the
noises is not coming from the wall, not the frog,
not this time, thank god. Okay, So with frogging, how
did this idea come to you and how did you
even begin to find people who had been accosted by progress? Well,
(34:36):
the company came to me with the project. They had
developed it for some time and lifetimes excited about it.
So having worked for lifetime in the past on surviving R. Kelly, um,
they told me about the project. It sounded really interesting
that it was non murder crime to work on. So
that was nice and nice reprieve from working on a
lot of you know, other shows that are more you
(34:59):
know that are hard work on terms of victim impact.
But surprisingly these victims were all super traumatized. So here
he is it's making appearance. Um, these victims have residual trauma.
They don't feel safe in their own home and UM.
So yeah. And would you say that there have been
(35:21):
any shows that you've worked on, including this one, that
have left you traumatized? Well, I think Surviving R. Kelly
did because it was just so intense and there were,
you know, constant threats going on. Um. I think it
was in the papers that you know, there was a
gun threat phoned in, UM to screening in New York.
(35:44):
So it was just you know, that was all in
the newspapers. It was in a Rolling Stone and several newspapers,
so that was really intense. But I mean I'm always
I always feel for the victims. When I worked on
a crime show, I don't just a job. It's like
I have to feel I want, I feel connected to people, um,
you know, who want to tell their stories. So UM,
and then I actually keep in touch with people afterwards.
(36:07):
That's so nice. We haven't done that, you know. I mean,
I haven't kept in touch with anyone in the last
twenty years. I only know Dmitri but Jessica. Okay, so
there were ten episodes and every episode is two stories.
Do they increase in intensity or is every episode just
banger so terrifying. Yeah, I think the first two stories
(36:29):
are the scariest, but then the last few stories are
also very very scary. So the first and the second ones,
um could easily sustain an entire you know, to our
feature film. They're that bad. Could you give us a
brief synopsis of the one that scared you the most? Well,
(36:51):
the first The first one is you know, um secret surgeon.
Um that that story was very intense, and the family
came home, Um, they were on big pation. They confronted
the frogger at the front door, but only after he
was hauled away and arrested. They found out that he
had been watching them for weeks and he had planned
on performing surgeries on them, and they found knives and
(37:12):
other things in the house. The second episode is also
very scary because the frogger was stalking and terrorizing the
family for months. He was pretending to be the ghost
of one of the women's dead mother. So that's very intense.
So yeah, it was pretty so the frogger was pretending
(37:32):
to be a ghost. Um was only caught later and
then after that person got out of prison went on
to kill people, so they were lucky to be alive. Yes, yeah,
and how did they catch him? Finally again, they saw
him in the house. They had left the house when
they heard noises, They confronted the frogger, they left, they
(37:53):
came back with the police and then the police who
got him out of no. No, I mean after he
committed the murders, there was a mad hunt. Oh I
am wow. Yeah. So is there a common through line
of severe mental illness and a lot of the froggers Well,
I used to referring to the first episode that you watched,
(38:16):
I would say that one was little I think an
anomaly because he was it was a random He had
fixated on the homeowners, but he didn't know them before.
Where's the second episode I'm referring to. There was a
relationship with the people who lived in the house. So
the frogger was really a stalker. So when it's random,
(38:36):
it's it's I guess, not as scary. But even still,
after the frogger is caught, people do do not feel
safe in their home. No, I mean, I remember, I
don't want to give anything away, but watching the first
story and seeing that there were notes left about like
you know, start planting equipment and and you know in
(38:59):
cameras and this of stuff and all these notes. And
it's interesting because it's like, at what point do you
think that they want to get caught or do you
think that they're maybe in this case in specific, he
was just so delusional that he wasn't even thinking like that.
I think he was delusional. But I think they're also
very lucky they came home and confronted him. So had
(39:21):
they not, he could have just slipped back up into
the attic and killed them in their sleep. And they
were they were completely vulnerable to him because he had
been there for a while and he knew about their
private life. And yeah, and he knew that he knew
their routine when they when they that's usually when people,
you know, find the frauders, when they break through rougine
(39:42):
and come home early or their schedule changes, and so
you'll you'll see a lot of that in the story,
when somebody comes someone from work early and they break
the routine, they find the frauder. I'm cringing. So that's
the article I had. I had read was somebody I
think was living in the attic for a while, and
what he would do is he'd come down in the
middle of the night and he just sit there and
why true sleep and like video as well. And it's like,
(40:04):
I mean, but there's some there's some weird stuff like
we're thinking, okay, people who are like, oh, I don't
have a big addic it ken't. But but they really
there's there's some crafty ways that they live inside these houses,
isn't it. Yeah. They can just kind of slip in
and then hide in the closet and then slip back out.
So it's not like they're just living in the closet.
Seven are living in the crawl space. Seven they get out,
(40:25):
they can come and go and then they slip back
and when they know the homeowners routine and then they
watch them. They watch them through air events. They drill
holes and walls, they remove electrical plates. Those are the ones.
Those are the stocking stories again, but the ones that
are just kind of there because they want place to sleep. Um, yeah,
(40:45):
in general, they don't do that. The good news is
for me is none of my neighbors want anything to
do with me, so I feel pretty safe. See I
am the opposite problem where it's like my ex boyfriend
is hiding behind electrical stock. I'm like, fine, we can
live together, but you put them there, so it's different.
It's different, and it's different. Um. But okay, So you
know the thing that's so terrifying about this is that
(41:07):
this seems like one of those things that the police
wouldn't take seriously. Do you find that that happens? That
homeowners would go to the police and report that they
felt like someone was in their house, and then they
were taken seriously or not taken seriously, and they do
a search and they can't find anything, and then they're
called back. You'll see that on multiple stories. And that's
really not the police's fault. I mean, they've they've done
(41:28):
their best. They looked in every room, um, and you know,
the frog are just slips out or there. They found
a great hiding spot and can remain undetected. And no
one would think to look in an air event well
not really hiding in an air vent. They're looking through
an air event location. They need more room to stretch out.
(41:51):
This is good. This is good though for people that,
um that thought that they were safe. We've now added
another level to something that your mind didn't quite explore.
So make sure you watch this show alone and at
night in the pure darkness, check everything before you just
sorry what you think is alone, but maybe not. Another
(42:13):
interesting thing that you know, ring cameras and surveillance cameras
they catch frauders too, So people find out they have
a frauder because you know those you know, those images
end up going to somebody's phone and then they're alerted,
you know, at work. So those are pretty good at
catching froggers. So I haven't recommend those. That's so interesting
because if I was a frogger and I saw a
(42:35):
ring light, I would assume that they could see me
or least plant them. Yeah. No, it's it's interesting. I mean,
especially in the first one where things are getting picked
up and it's like, wouldn't you want to put things
back exactly where they were? Right? You know. I think
it's interesting that it's clear that something is off and
(42:58):
they're not really putting in a lot of effort to
make it feel like no one is there. But it's
probably a psychological thrill for them, right, because I mean,
if you're going to sit there and watch someone, right,
you want to see them kind of scared themselves or
react to stuff and not thinking that you're there watching them.
Maybe the same thing as setting up a camera and
watching people's reactions to stuff. So yeah, they probably do
(43:19):
leave it not exactly the same for that reason. Well,
dmitri as the frogging expert, Well just right though, I
mean people, Yeah, there are some really sinister froggers that
want to instill terror into some of these homeowners, and
so they enjoy watching them being frightened. This is so
absolutely terrifying to me, kind of like we're enjoying watching
(43:42):
be frightened right now. I'm so uncomfortable. I'm so uncomfortable.
I'm literally sitting here just thinking about all my cabinets.
I'm like do I need I'm I'm like, do I
need to get a ring light? Right now? What would
you suggest to people to defend themselves against froggers or
what to do if they suspect they have a frogger
should probably just leave and and call the police that
(44:02):
they really think there's somebody there, especially if they see
evidence that somebody's been in their home. Um, if they
have tried that, and then I would say get yea
plants surveillance cameras all over the house, and I would
venture to say that there's enough crazy in the world.
There's enough crazy people in the world. Don't just turn
back to yourself and be like, I'm imagining this, I'm crazy.
(44:25):
Check it out first, and then like, don't just put
it on yourself and be like, oh, this is me,
I'm crazy. No, there could be someone doing crazy stuff,
and don't sell them short unless it's me, in which
case I probably am just crazy. That I think is
a nice combo. It's a nicet. It's like a surfing turf, exactly, exactly. Okay, So, um,
(44:45):
when when you were talking to the victims, was there
anything that stood out to you about, um, how they
felt or how they was there anything like a common
through line or um action that they all took, or
any sort of like big fights they got into families
with or anything like that, Because when someone else doesn't
(45:07):
believe you, it seems like that could really create tension
to the point of divorce. Yeah. I mean some people
think that they're just under stressed, especially they live with
another person, and or they think that, like I said,
they think they have a ghost in the house. Um there. Yeah,
it does create a lot of tension when one person
is experiencing the broady and the other person isn't so. Um,
(45:30):
but I think, you know, finally, you know, like when
he was watching in the first episode, Um, the roommates,
when they found the man's handprints in the bathroom, that
was enough. They all they all got it. But they again,
they thought they had a ghost in the house too.
I think this is the most uncomfortable I've ever been
on this podcast. Yeah, it is, it is. It's it's
(45:54):
quite creepy. And luckily, I mean for me, I'm the
type of person that likes to prove something. So if
my wife was like, there's somebody living here, I wouldn't
be the person that would go up in the attic
and I would check everyth Now, see there's not just
so I could say, you see, there's not nothing to
worry about. But when I was little, I found out
years later we had somebody that was like, I don't
know it was a runaway or somebody that that basically
had broken into our basement for a while and had
(46:16):
been staying there. But I think it was like I
think our next door neighbor like knew them and was like, oh,
you can get in there, and basically, so we offered
up our basement. Yeah, I didn't know. I didn't realize
this till years later my sister told me. But so
it was permission, well kind of by someone that didn't
wasn't able to grant permission. But yes, and I used
(46:38):
to go down to that basement by myself all the time.
I was when I found this out as an adult,
I was like, what the therapy about this? Reach? No,
this is it. I didn't want to bother the therapist
or you know, but the insurance as a hassle. They
want to see the card and so I just forgot
to bring it up at some point on this podcast. Wow,
this is the perfect time. Thank you so much. Okay, Also,
(46:58):
let me just say, um, Dmitri, I actually can't believe
you've never brought this up before. Well yeah, I think
I think it was suppressing it until it just was like, oh,
wait a minute, somebody living in the basement. I don't
know how long it was for, but any even a
minute too long for me. I mean, now, when you
go into your basement, do you feel like you have PTSD?
I would, uh, I don't know. I don't worry about
(47:22):
stuff like that now. Um, but I think it was
more of like when I found out and I thought
about childhood, me like that that scared the crap out
of me. But now I'm just like whatever, all go
down and check it out. God, what's it like to
be well adjusted? Yeah? Exactly? Well okay, So so Jessica,
(47:43):
You've also done a lot of lighthearted lifestyle shows like
house Hunter's you know, what do you feel like? Is
more satisfying for you as a producer. I mean, I
love that it's funny because you guys work on crime show.
I work on crime shows. I like to do compressed
and watch a lot of like home renault shows at night.
I don't want to come home and watch more crime
(48:05):
because I've been dealing with it all days. So, um,
those are those are just fun and lighthearted shows. I
really like him. But I mean I love the challenge
of documentaries and true crime is interesting. Um, also investigations
like even Catfish. I worked on Catfish that was an investigation,
but it's a love story first and a mystery second.
So those shows are fun, even though it's more of
(48:26):
a lighthearted investigation show. But I would say anything that
creates an impact, that's my favorite thing to work on.
Was there any episode of Catfish that really stuck out
to you? Uh, there's one where the Catfish Portunity. He
was a big music producer, and you have to be
(48:50):
more specific that that one stood out in my mind.
But I worked on a spinoff show called Untold Stories.
To these were like past tense stories, not to investigations,
where people tell their wildest catfish stories that they fell
in love with somebody and it was like, you know,
somebody already knew who didn't like them. They didn't like
them back, crazy stuff. So people are so bizarre. Okay,
(49:15):
of all the projects you've worked on, has there anything
that's really stayed with you or haunted you, so to speak,
or something that's really left an impact. Well, I'm probably
surviving r Kelly just because of the women went through. Yeah,
that stayed with me. Wow. Okay, Well, Jessica, I don't
want to take a couple of your time today. So
(49:38):
unless Dmitri has any other questions, I think I'm sufficiently
freaked out. Just I don't think we ever explained it
frog the name frogging because it's with a pH, right,
So also when you're looking it up, don't put in uh,
you know, don't put it f R. It's pH But
where does that come from? Like a frog that leaps
(49:58):
from place to place? So somebody who's like just moving
around undetected that they spelled it within pH rock the animal,
so people didn't think they were looking up at a
frog documentary. Good than exactly exactly. Yeah, So just make
sure you check your crawl spaces and your addicts immediately
(50:19):
following the podcast. Absolutely. Now I'm gonna go find crawl
spaces in my house, but I can't wait. So you guys,
just to be sure you've heard this before, but we're
going to say it again. The show premieres Monday, July
eighth at ten ninth Central and also streams the next day.
It's on Lifetime and it's called Frogging with a pH
Hider in My House And Jessica, thank you so much
(50:41):
for being with us today. I really appreciate it. All right,
thanks guys, thank you. I mean, just in case you
wanted to be freaked out. There's sometimes we can talk
(51:02):
about something on this show, on this podcast and and
we're fine. You can walk away from it like, well
that was a good conversation, but now this is gonna
stick with you for a while, isn't it. I'm so
uncomfortable to Metrie. I don't know, like the story of
the boy that hides inside the walls of the family home,
terrorizing the teenage girls for months. It's it's so interesting
(51:24):
because in my head, I'm like, this isn't a game,
this isn't funny. These are people's real lives. If this
was happening to me, I would be going absolutely batch.
I mean, you know me, well, yeah, I mean you're
you're kind of heading that way anyway. But imagine all
these times when you're saying, you know, here at the podcast,
we get screeners first, and we have the privilege so
we're the only ones to get to see them. But
(51:45):
now you realize someone could be watching along with you.
And that's our episode for today. Everyone, Um, thank you
so much. I will be hosting this podcast alone next week,
but I'll think I'll be alone, but to Meetrill just
be in the air vent behind me. But this is
this has been never again, Dmitri. This has been never again, Dmitri.
And also, I cannot believe you hoarded that story until
(52:07):
just now. Honestly, I forgot about it so much, so
much trauma trauma. I had to dig it up because
you know what, I think, had that happened and had
I realized it then, right, had I gone down to
the basement and been and confronted somebody down there, it
would have been a different story than finding out about
it when I didn't. We didn't even own the house
anymore like it was when I was a little kid,
(52:29):
and then I found out as an adult, So that
kind of it kind of made it a little less
not a little less real, but it wasn't as traumatic probably,
so see. I feel like for me now as an adult,
if I ever had a basement, I would just constantly
think someone was living down there. Yeah. Well, and especially
the way house is settled, like I have an attic
and sometimes I'll hear noises and it's like, oh that
(52:49):
it's so weird because sometimes it settles and it sounds
like a footstep, but it's not. I've been up there.
There's no way up there except through the house, and
I've been up there. You guys, would you comment on
real time crime hood posts or d ms on Instagram
and let us know if you're now checking every nook
and cranny of your house and if you're terrified. And
also if anything like this has ever happened to you,
(53:13):
I don't want to know, but Dmitri does because he's
starting a support group. Yeah, I'll wat through him and
I'll share the ones that I think you can handle,
So none of them. And if you find somebody, obviously,
feel free to call the police first, then reach out
to most after. Please call the police first, pretty much
always police first, and then call in live at that's
eight six six twenty one. Come eight six six to anyone.
(53:37):
Come it's eight six six two one two seven four
six three. Just leave us voice mail. Maybe we'll play it.
Real Time Crime pod on Instagram. I'm at Leo Lamar
e h l A m A r R TikTok with
five rs. Should dates at Lee Lamar dot com. Same
thing as Twitter, Dmitri at Dmitri pappis across social media
and you know Leahs show dates are up at her
(53:59):
site to so check this up. Alright, guys, this has
been a very manic episode of real time crime. We'll
see you next week. Stay safe, check your events, love
youa goodbye. It's real time crap it real time gro
I mean, is it actually real time crime? I'm solving
anything or is that just the thing we say, it's
(54:21):
a thing, we say, got it? Okay, See you next
week for more real time crime, only on i Heart Radio.
Hello, and welcome fact to another episode of Real Time Crime.
I'm your host b Lamar, and I have with me
my good friend. Oh my goodness, we're really progressing. This
is nice. Well, I mean, Adam and I did FaceTime
you on fourth of July when we were on the
paddle a swan paddle boat on a lake, which has
(00:31):
jumped up to the top of the list of some
of my favorite memories and experiences to be uh at
a Fourth of July party and get a FaceTime like
huh and and turn it on and see the two
of you on a giant swan paddle voting around the pond.
Was it was the surprise I never knew I wanted.
I'm very sad that that's one of your top favorite memories.
(00:52):
But also, you know, the pond is symbolic of Adam
living across the pond, so and how when you see
each other it's like lying on a swan with a
lot of pedal just so everyone knows he's not here
right now. He's hiding in my wall. But that'll be
interesting to you later when we get to our main story,
(01:13):
which is about frogging with p Like when you say
you're like fat with the pH. So not a real frog. No, no,
not a real frog. It's someone who hides in the
walls of your home or in the attic or in
the basement or anywhere in your home and stocks you
and watches you. But more on that later because that
is the story for our second half of the episode today.
(01:36):
And we have a special guest, Jessica Everleth, who is
the EP on this new show called frogg Gang, which
will be out on Lifetime. You guys, I am. I
saw the screener and I'm disturbed. Disturbed. You gotta listen
to this interview. The show is uh so cringe worthy
in the way that you just you literally are so
(01:58):
afraid to move when you're watching it. I literally sat
there clutching my blanket, listening to every possible noise I
could ever happen and trying to justify what it could be.
And then very scaredly, took a flashlight and checked every
nooking coronia of my house like a psycho. And did
you call Adam afterward and telling you we're scared? I said,
(02:18):
I need you to come all the way back to
l A. I'm scared, alright. But before we get to
that story. Let's get to our hot topics, shall we. Alright, alright,
first hot topic for today. Oh man, this is one
of those things where it's like, we gotta get Teddy's
take on this. Jen Shaw Real Housewives of Salt Lake
City cast member, please guilty to telemarketing fraud. Okay, So,
(02:44):
Jennifer Shaw played guilty Monday to defrauding hundreds of victims,
including some elderly, in a year's long telemarketing scheme. She
pleaded guilty to one count of conspiracy to commit wire fraud.
According to a pre argument. Federal sentencing guidelines range eleven
to fourteen years. Is in prison, although I'm sure she'll
go in the Martha Stewart route, which is just a
little ankle bracelet. As part of a plea argument, Sara
(03:07):
will pay six point five mill and forfeiture and up
to nine point five mill and restitution. She was arrested
in one while Bravo was filming the second season of
the show, and she consistently professed her innocence, going as
far as to stay in as tagline for the show
that said, the only thing I'm guilty of is being
Shaw Amazing and saying that is you're guilty enough that
(03:31):
that allowment I would lock her up. You're guilty of
being annoying? Who who was like, Yeah, that's a great tagline.
Her guilty plea came as she was set to go
to trial in federal court in Manhattan. They said that
since Shaw and others sold so called quote unquote business
(03:51):
services to alleged victims, including website design services to some
elderly individuals who didn't even own computers, I mean, how
much of a pos do you gotta be? Shaw and
others also identified and sold as leads the names of
individuals who they knew would be defrauded by others. I mean,
this is just trash human behavior. Prosecutor said. Shaw supervised
(04:15):
the salespeople who lied directly to the victims of the scheme.
She sought to hide her role in the fraud by
using encrypted messaging apps, placing companies in the name of
family and others, and setting up an offshore bank account
and business operations in Kosovo. She also underreported her income
on tax returns for several years. Prosecutors say Shaw spent
the proceeds from the fraud on her extravagant lifestyle. As
(04:36):
we trade on the reality show sentencing in the cases
scheduled for November, Shaw told the judge, I knew this
was wrong. I know many people were harmed names so sorry,
Oh I know. I feel so badly for her, Like
she just got caught up and she denied it for years, right,
said she had nothing to do with it, and she
finally came clean. And it's not because she turned things
(04:59):
around and she realized is the error of ever wig
she did. What people do they got busted, they're facing something,
you know, a punishment, and they're gonna say, oh, I
don't know. I've realized that was wrong and I don't
know what happened, and blah blah blah, you did it,
live with it. I mean. That's the other thing too,
is that I wonder if it was like a Chicken
(05:19):
or the egg situation where she had to figure out
a way to make more money to be more attractive
for the show, or if she was always going to
do this sort of like horrible behavior, if this is
who she is innately as a person, And I mean
I guess it did because since she's been yeah, so
never mind, I take that back. It's been since that
she's been scamming old people without computers for website services
(05:43):
and then selling their personal information. So yeah, that's way
before the show. Yeah, yeah, she's a bad person. And
then somehow she ended up getting fame for something else
and luckily, you know, in a in a karmic way.
Season two, she gets arrested, like the whole thing comes
crashing down. Potentially that's what she wanted, was fame in
(06:03):
the set and then and then it you know, she
lost it all because she made stupid I don't want
to call the mistakes because she was aware of what
she was doing. I feel like there's so much crime
involved with the reality shows. There's always something happening, and
it's very confusing. It's like, what's up with the background
checks on these people? Or do they have to check
(06:24):
the income statements to make sure that you know, I
don't know. I mean it's so interesting. I mean I
also think that she pled guilty because she knew that
she was going to get caught. Yeah. Probably, But the
thing is, it's it's real housewives, right, and this is
apparently what some of them are doing. There's a housewives
in my opinion, I mean that's true, but he's a
(06:46):
job just kidding. Well, I mean, and I know a
lot of people want to go to like, I have
zero tolerance for taking advantage of senior citizens kids. I mean,
I don't think you should take advantage of anybody or
con them or scammed them. But that's the works. It's
the easy targets, and it's the people that can't defend themselves.
And if you morally are okay with that, then you're
you're sicker than just that, you know, which is weird
(07:08):
to say, than a normal criminal. But yeah, I also
think that being on the reality show is probably the
thing that did her in because it brought so much
attention to her finances. I think if she had never
been on the reality show, she might not have been
caught because who no one knew who she was. That's
a good point. That's just my take, that's my heart's take. No,
it makes sense. And you know what good good it's
(07:30):
it's often it right, It's it's people being greedy, are
always wanting more in something that ends up being their downfall.
And that's exactly what happened here. I hear that, like
I want Adam to get a visa or a green
card and just him not being here is not good enough.
I want more. I just wanted to make this about
me somehow. Okay, but I'll be your downfall, That'll be
your uplifting. I'm very excited for us, for us, Yeah,
(07:53):
for all three of us together, when we live in
a home together. I actually have some I don't I'm
not gonna take about now. I have blueprints for a
swan boat that fits three my dream. I didn't know
I needed this until now. Also, I just want to say,
you know, text tech company sells our our personal information
all the time, our email addresses, our phone numbers or addresses.
(08:15):
All this information is getting shared all the time, and
they're always constant breaches or social scurity numbers getting stolen.
This is getting stolen. It's like at this point when
I see that there's been my email has been you know,
oh you're part of a breach, I'm like, I'm not
even changed my email address. Like find whatever you need?
What do you I have nothing to hide? Number one,
number two, Like there's nothing to get from there. You know,
(08:35):
it's just gonna be like scripts that never made it right.
And and trust me, you cannot sell those I'll know.
I'll see your ass and you know, I think it's
I think what she did is different because what she
did was prey on these people first, and then once
(08:57):
she realized that they were kind of gold standard for
skin ming, gave the information to other people so that
they could continue to be scammed. Right. Uh. And I
know I come across as like a high and mighty here, like, oh,
don't do this. So I'll be honest, though, if you
want to know what's really going on in my head
right now, I'm fascinated by the fact that she sold
website designed to people who didn't have computers, Like, how
(09:18):
does that conversation go? No, She's an amazing saleswoman and honestly,
I'd like to take a course from her. This feels
like a Jordan Bell for a situation where people are like, well,
you did something shitty, but how do we make money? Yeah,
you know it's she's a good saleswoman. I'm not, again
not condoning it, but I'm fascinated by it. Fascinated fascinated.
(09:39):
I mean that's like selling milk at a hardware store.
How did she do that? Alright, So just moving on
to the next story, speaking of stealing from people among
her stole sixty dollar role X Pistol whipped a woman
outside California Market. And look, of course it's an armed robber.
(10:02):
It's California, baby, We're a crime country now. So there's
the police are still searching for two suspects who stole
man sixt k gold rolex and pistol whipped his female
companion outside a grocery store on Monday. K ABC TV
captured the victims kneeling behind their vehicle and a parking
lot outside Ranch Market and Rolling Heights, which is near
(10:22):
l A on Saturday afternoon, and the woman screaming during
the frightening assault. Obviously she's pistol whipped. The pair were
set upon as they loaded groceries into their car. One
of the suspects, Pisto whipped the guy, knocking him to
the ground while robbing him of his luxury. We watch
the second attast attacker then assaulted the woman with his
(10:42):
weapon and the suspects apparently we're wearing black hoodies and
gray sweatpants, so just any boy in l A. And
they took off in a white dog challenger. I just
gotta say, don't park next to challengers. Anyone who's got
a Dodge challenger is looking for trouble that car. The
accelerator goes too fast for normal people. It just you
put your foot on and it's a hundred miles per
(11:03):
hour and you were just at zero. So if you're
partner next to a challenger, just letting you know this
could be your fault. I'm not saying they were partners
to a challenger. I'm just saying, look out in the future,
I think twice before you part next to a challenger.
That's our public safety tip, thank you. And also, they
had paper license plates. I just I like the idea
of it being like a paper plate, like a little
(11:24):
an it. Well, I'll give California this because not too
long ago we didn't have those. People would just have
a dealer sticker or whatever. There was no license plate,
and so people would not change their plates forever, so
it was impossible to track those cars. Well, the other
thing is that these robbers were between twenty and thirty,
and they both had semi automatic guns. Look, I just
(11:45):
think we I understand the right to bear arms. However,
I don't think any civilian needs a semi automatic weapon.
I'm against guns, but I just say, how are civilians
and semi automatic weapons. That leads me to believe that
they're either involved with the military, or involved with a
(12:06):
huge gang or in some sort of like big crime. Right,
I mean, like, how do you get semi automatic guns?
I don't know, And like you said, there's no reason
to have those. But when you look back and the
fact that these guys just got pistol whipped, which means
they were hit with the gun, right, I mean, this
could have been way worse. Yeah, I mean, look, I
(12:28):
think it's unfair to blame the people for wearing a
gold Rolex. You're allowed to be a human being. Those
things exist so that you can wear them. You should
be able to go into public and not be assaulted
and robbed. I don't think it's his fault. It's not
his fault, but you if you're going, if you choose
to do that, you are putting yourself more at risk
(12:48):
than not. So I'm not saying you're inviting it. I'm
not saying that you should. It's your fault investination, but
you have to be aware of the fact that if
you're doing that, you I am someone that's I feel
like I'm always alert on that alerted on stuff from
on high alert. I should say, I don't know if
it's from watching a bunch of stuff or reading stories
all the time. So I feel like I always know something.
When I walk into a restaurant, I scanned the room
(13:09):
and I'm like, Okay, that person is that or it's
not a it's not like a profile thing. But I'm
just look around to seat to know the situation. And
I feel like if I were to be wearing a
six dollar watch, which I would never do, I feel
like I would be constantly like looking around because I
would I would be on edge knowing that this is
out there flashing. Okay, I'm gonna be honest. We recorded
(13:30):
the second half of this podcast first, and Dmitri tells
a personal story from his childhood and says he doesn't
have PTSD from it, but what he just told me
lets me know he definitely has PTS. The second I
go anywhere, I look at all my surroundings and look
at everyone around me. That's not PTSD. That's just being
that's just being safe. That's being careful. Like the more
(13:50):
alert you are, the less you'll be surprised by something. Yeah,
I mean, do you think that there will be a
decrease in sales of luxury goods. I don't think there
will be. I just think people will probably wear their
luxury goods out less frequently unless they're around other people
who are also doing the same thing, like at a
high end nightclub where their security or something where it's like,
(14:11):
why do you have those high end things? Because you
want to wear them out and be seen with them, right,
So it's very like and I know there's people that
lock them up and only wear them on special occasions
and I don't know, to me, what's the point of
having that, Like it's not me to begin with, this
is not my style. But uh, if you had that, like,
do you want to hide it, you want to only
(14:32):
wear at certain times you want to? I don't just
I don't see the reward on that. The downside is clear.
We just talked about it. Yeah, I mean, I just
got an expensive item for the first time in my
entire life and it's you. I'm not, actually I am,
(14:56):
And I am treating it like a child, like I
put it back in its crib when we come home
and the crib has a lock on it. Yeah, because
that is what will happen to my baby. It will
be locked in a crib and not allowed to come out.
Don't just don't even put that on the recording. You
can't do that. What may I ask what this item is?
I don't want anyone to steal my baby? Well no,
(15:18):
but you can't lock them. There are froggers around, Dmitri.
What is the what is this item that we've indulged
ourselves with. Um, it's a bag. I got a nice
bag when I was in Paris with Adam and I've
never owned a nice bag before, so I'm never worried.
So now when I do go out, if I'm going
to place that I think will either a be dirty
(15:39):
or be like if I'll have to put the bag
down somewhere. Um, I usually just bring my backpack instead. Right, So,
but do you feel like if you when you take
that bag out? Right, do you feel like are you like, Okay,
I'm holding this expensive bag? And do you feel like
people are noticing it? Does it put you on it?
(16:00):
That's the that's the whole point of Maitri. But I know,
I know it's interesting because I think the people who care, notice,
the people who recognize brand names, notice, you know the
other people who also have the notice, and then I
think people who are trying to take advantage of you
also notice it's a double edged sword. I mean, you know,
(16:22):
it's also like, why do I care about people noticing
that I have a nice bag? Why do I care
to have a nice bag? Let's into that. I mean, yeah,
I I just um, one of our other producers just
sent a chat that said, Burke and baby like I
hear you. You know it's um. I think women really
(16:44):
enjoy bags and shoes. And I don't mean that in
a derogatory way. I think it's like a like almost
it's almost like a fun self worth thing to be
like I love this designer and there their luxury items
and I'm proud to wear um and I'm proud to
wrap this designer and it makes me feel confident, makes
me feel good, it makes me feel beautiful and glamorous,
(17:05):
and I enjoy all those things. You know, I don't
have any designer shoes. I'm working on one step at
the time, you guys, And uh, I just have a bag.
And also, um, I got sent some jewelry that is expensive.
You know, those are those orthopedic sneakers, you are those
aren't designer they're just general. Yeah, they weren't Balinciaga, if
you can believe that, And um, I would send some
(17:27):
nice jewelry. And I do think about where I wear it. Well,
you just but you just that's fine for me. You
what you just said makes sense to me. And I
think that's a perfect reason. If it makes you feel
good about yourself and it makes you feel you know, whatever,
it is, accomplished, confident, whatever, I think that's fine. But
with that comes the responsibility of being aware of where
(17:47):
you wear it and how you and how you carry it,
of course, and I think it's important insurance on your
unquote expensive things. I mean, it's just like, why would
I need a house versus a one bedroom apartment. I
just want the space. I have other rooms that I want,
you know, I have other I want to set up
a studio and do this and that. You know, It's like,
why does anyone want more? Why does anyone want something
(18:08):
that's expensive? You know, It's like why do you buy
a certain top because it is the right color for me?
It makes me feel good and confident when I walk
into your room. You know, some people you walk into
a room and you know, a plastic bag people aren't
gonna take it seriously. I think the first impressions are
a lot of this business and a lot about life too.
Like you go on the first date, the first thing
(18:28):
you do is see someone and whether or not they
care about wealth or items of wealth, they do probably
will care about aesthetic, you know. I don't know that
many people who go on the first date having no
clue what the person looks like. There are very few
blind dates, you know. So it's like you go because
you see their photos and you think, oh, this person
is attractive. It's the same thing with anything else. Right. Well,
(18:51):
I will say, I just trying to make myself feel
better by the way, Yeah, I think, and it's fine.
I think what you're saying is totally fine. Um. But
what I will say, which I just dawned on me
now and it's make come across as a slight, but
it's definitely not. The difference is no. The difference is
you're single, right, you you're with you have a boyfriend,
but you don't have kids, right, And so I don't
fear me as a person like when I was single,
(19:12):
when I was just me going places, I don't really
fear much, right, But when you have other people, especially
younger people that are that looked to you, and you
now you have to protect them. You become a little
So what I have warned something. I would never have
a six rocks. I just don't think unless someone gave
it to me would I have warned that is something
I need to tell you. You've got me a gift.
(19:34):
There's something outside your Yeah, yeah, I get um what
I have done more quote unquote careless type of things
or yeah, I probably would have, but now I'm I'm
less open to it because there's other people. Then I'm
putting other people in danger. I get that, and you know,
to each his own m it makes sense. But when
(19:56):
you have that baby locked in the crib, I think
you'll think differently as well. Well, busy, be able to breathe.
I just don't want anyone coming and taking my baby
a mentally ill Okay, So moving on to the theme
of today, which is stealing from our hot topics. American
Airlines passenger accused of stealing ten thousand dollars mid air
from fellow flyers. So he did this during the trip
(20:16):
from Buenos Aries to Miami on Tuesday. Diego Sebastian Radio
I feel like his last name is not pronounced radio,
but here we are. It can't be but right, could
be radio radio. I don't know. I wanted to roll
my arm. Let me live. That's why you have five
hours on your TikTok. Yeah. Leonmar allegedly also stole more
(20:41):
than fourteen thousand Argentine pasos, which is about ten USD,
and two credit cards from two other passengers during the
July five flight. At least one flight attendant noticed some
suspicious activity midflight, and, according to the affidavit signed by
a passenger, noticed that radio initially paced the aisle of
the plane and then took an unassigned seat near one
of the victims. The crime was discovered when a flighted
(21:03):
and asked the passenger to check her belongings and discover
that several items were missing. Uh so he's now in
custody and he was arrested by Customs and Border patrol
and after the missing items were found in his possession,
this is when he was arrested. Obviously. I mean again,
this goes into the same thing. Are are you just
(21:25):
like I don't know, are you? Are you going to
be more mindful on flights about what sort of bags
you bring, like would you might maybe not bring a
Louis Vuitton luggage because someone's watching and could steal. I
haven't actually personally heard of people stealing on flights before.
You know why because there's nowhere to go. So this
guy is an idiot, like he stole stuff. If you're
(21:46):
going to steal something on a plane, you have nowhere
to go. So if you're going to do it, and
it's not like I'm giving tips to these people, but
this is my opinion. If you're going to do it,
take something, Take something from the person next to you,
Take something for this. But the guy's walking awkwardly up
and down the aisle, sitting in different seats, taking a
bunch of stuff from different people. That's just that's begging
(22:06):
to be caught. And you can't get away. You're on
a plane. No, there's nowhere to go. I mean, there's
literally nowhere to run or hide. And this guy, I mean,
what did he I don't know what he thought. I mean,
he might have been on drugs, who knows. How do
you think you're gonna get away with that? But I um,
I think people do kind of let their guards down
when they're flying. You know, they're either thinking about not
(22:27):
dying and crashing, or they're crying watching a movie, or
they're passed out trying to get a quick nap in
before they get off the plane. And also because you
just assumed that no one would do it, because it's like,
where are you going to go? You cannot run from
this crime. I mean, I'm I don't know. I've had
a lot of weird experiences on airplanes, but it's all
just been with annoying people who have bothered me. So
(22:51):
I had to switch seats. Nothing to do with someone's
stealing from me. Yeah, well, but you go ahead. I'm
listening this One time, I um was flying to abisa
well and I dropped my invisilne case on the floor.
I was just like a full on Mr Bean at
this point, just like look, look, look, look like everything
(23:13):
was falling out and the case slid all the way
to the front of the plane, and the guy sitting
in the front was a very elderly man. He was
reacting like a spaceship like an alien craft had. He
was like what is this And I was like, I'm
so sorry, that's my invisible and he took it out
and put it in his mouth and yeah, I'm like,
(23:35):
they don't give you teeth, Um, they just mold the
ones you have. But yeah, and then I had this
rabbi once and next to me after a traumatic time
in Panama City trying to get back to New York
and all my flights being canceled and the airport being
shut down and there being no food and water for
over twenty four hours, and I didn't speak Spanish. This
rabbi was like, oh, you should have children by now.
(23:56):
You shouldn't be an artist. And I was like, I
have to move this seat. This was the most traumatic
part of that that I'd rather have my wallet stolen
than have to like listen to someone tell me what
I should be doing with my life. And I'm like,
you're a man of the Lord, you know, yeah, just
leave me alone anyway. Um So, Dmitri, do you have
any worse experiences on a flight? No? Mine are always
(24:19):
just you know, an annoyances. I've never had something, um,
super bad happened on a flight. Um So no, I've
never been you know, nothing where like It's it's more
like people get angry, you know, or people start yelling
or something like that at me. But people start yelling
and then it's just kind of like the flight attendant. Like,
I've been on a couple of things where they had
to like take them off before the flight left, but
nothing outrageous. I've never been on anything with with punches
(24:42):
thrown or anything, thank you know, thank goodness, anything too bad.
But it's you know, it's a you're you're in an
enclosed tube and you're in there for a long period
of time, and people's personalities come out in different ways,
so there's there's always the possibility of something. My favorite
thing that happened to me recently was there was a
girl who her her ticket kept beeping red and she
(25:05):
was yelling at the flight attendant. There's this huge line
behind her trying to get onto the plane. Everyone's trying
to get on the plane. She was like, scan it again,
scan it again. I just changed the ticket. This is like,
please scan it again. That's my seat number. And she
just had the completely wrong flight. And when she walked away,
I thought everyone was going to start applying because it
(25:26):
was she was. I mean, the amount of self righteousness
was unbelievable. I was like that saw that coming from
mile away. Yeah. And by the way, be gracious about it, like,
just even if that was the right, it's hilarious that
it was a wrong flight. People don't want to help
you when you're being an ass. I've learned this, and
(25:47):
I'm so glad she wasn't on my flight. I was like,
if this is how she is now, But then, to
be fair, I probably would have also been her if
I was very sure it was like scan it again. Anyway,
you guys, let's take a quick break before we bring
on our amazing guest for today and talk about Frogging,
which you're not gonna want to miss because it is
absolutely terrified. I give it a ten out of ten. Cringe.
(26:10):
All right, we'll be right back and we're back to
real time crime. You guys. I'm very excited about our
guest and equally as excited to talk about the show
(26:32):
that she is an ep on and dear God, Dmitri,
I don't know if you watched the first episode. You
know we get privilege information sometimes lucky us. Well I know,
I know. Yeah, that's my parents said. Um and and
the whole show is called frogging Hyder in my house.
(26:58):
Think about that. You already have a picture the picture
in your head is correct. The show is going to
premiere Monday, n Central. So everyone, we have with us
here our special guests today. Jessica ever left, Hi Jessica. Hi.
With you guys so incredible, haven't you here with us today?
I watched the first episode and we already told our
(27:20):
listeners were spoiled. We got an early copy, and I'm
blown away and disturbed and terrified and now thinking that
someone is living in my walls. I mean, everybody's going
to think that right after they watched the show. It's
incredible and there each one of them could be their
own horror movie. These are stranger than fiction stories. Um,
each one could be, like I said, its own movie.
(27:43):
I just thought. My thought was, these are all going
to be made into separate Netflix movies. Absolutely definitely. Each
story is almost as unbelievable as the next. Agree and
sorry to me, trade go for it. No, what I
was gonna say is I have a problem. I can
a news article and think, oh, well, that's weird. So
I did see one recently about someone that was living
(28:04):
in someone's attic, and I thought that's weird, but probably
just you know, on anomaly or something. And then this
show comes and you know, see the trailer and I
see the first episode and I'm like, crap, this is
something that happens a lot. So so I went from
being able to dismiss it to now being terrified and
like every little noise I here in the house, I'm like, Okay, well,
I got a whole community up there. That's great. Yeah, exactly,
(28:25):
It's more common than you think. And when we dug
into our research, we found two cases immediately immediately, which
means that there are so many. Yeah, and there's two
stories per hour in frogging, so there's twenty stories and
they're just they're just wild. Okay. So first of all,
(28:46):
I don't do well. I know we have a true
gram podcast, but historically I don't do well with horror.
Anything that seems like a psychological thriller really disturbs me.
And I did not sleep well last night. I do
blame you. There is a monster under the bed. Now
(29:07):
I'm convinced. Now I'm checking every closet door, I'm checking
every nook and cranny of my house every time I
walk in. I mean, that's what will happen to everyone
once they start watching the show. Absolutely, they're gonna have
to check their crawl spaces, their addicts behind any kind
of false walls that they have ums. I would prefer
(29:27):
a monster or a ghost as opposed to a real
person in my wall or in my attic. Bunny, you
mentioned ghosts. Most people believe that they had a ghost
in their house before they jumped to the conclusion they
had an intruder. That's what was really funny, because it
kind of starts off slowly, where things disappear or they move,
they disappear, then reappear somewhere else. Um food starts to disappear,
(29:50):
and they hear footsteps, maybe some kind of like disembody
voice that's really just a faint voice they're hearing from
another room, and they think they have a ghost in
the house. I would until they you know, I would.
I would rather have a pastor come into my house
and perform an exorcism. And I'm Jewish than for there
to be an actual human hiding in my walls. And
(30:11):
and Jessica, just to the listeners have a better understanding
in your own words, can you describe what frogging is
Frogging is My understanding is when it's not squatting, it's
when someone is living in your house at the same time,
unbeknown for you. So it's kind of like the movie
Parasite where the family was living in the basement at
the same time as the other family that's frogging. And
(30:34):
sometimes the house is the targets of the frogging, or
it's the person. So when it's the person, it's really
more of a stalking frogger situation, which is even more scary.
There was that image that I saw of someone removing
like the electrical outlet and just you see eyes peering
through it. So what do you what is the what
(30:56):
do you find is the most common reason? Is it
that they just need a place to live or is
it that they're doing creepy pervy stuff. Um, I would
say most of the time it's creepy stuff. Occasionally it's
somebody just needed someplace to live for free and see it.
But there are a lot of stalking cases, so yeah,
(31:16):
they want to spy. Or there's a neighbor who now
is fixated on the person living in a nearby apartment
and they they're like a peeping tom, you know. But
now they're frogging. They're living above their space. So we've
had a few of those as well. So it's it's
very scary, especially for a woman who lives alone. You know,
I would imagine. Yeah, I'm sorry. Are there any cases
(31:41):
where the frogger was allowed to claim squatters rights? No,
The people who were caught were arrested in various charges
breaking an enter room, stalking, um some assault charges. Yeah,
so it was it's a serious prime it's not it's
not swatting, Okay, And I just want to take it
(32:01):
back for two seconds and just talk about you for
a second. Your career is so well rounded and it
seems super eclectic. You know, you've worked on some iconic shows,
but it seems like true crime has always been a
passion of yours. I guess I'm just curious to know
what you love about true crime. Um Let started off
in documentaries and music, and I moved to l a
(32:24):
twenty years ago, and then my first job was working
on a true crime show with a famous blood spatter expert,
Dr Henry Lee. So I think that's what kind of
launched my career in true crime. So that's that's just
been my lane crime investigation documentaries and and also I
hate to bring this up, but we do know you
worked on the r Kelly documentary and just so curious
(32:47):
to know your thoughts now that the ruling has come
to light. Yeah, I mean, I'm real. I'm glad the women, Um,
you know, we're heard and there's been justice. He is
facing another trial. I think it's going to be televised
to so there's one coming up in August, so it's
gonna be interesting to see what happens. But I mean,
I'm just I'm still blown away at the impact the
(33:07):
documentary have and you know, it's a very Um, it
was one of the most difficult things I've ever worked
on with one of the most important projects, if not
the most important. I mean, you you brought justice to survivors.
That was the goal, and I'm really glad. You know,
I'm happy for them. Do you think that he deserved
(33:28):
more than thirty years? Um? You know, it's it's interesting
because I think giz Lane Maxwell was sentenced the same
week and people were talking about that that she got
twenty years and Artilly got thirty. So you know, I
wasn't at the trial. I don't know. Um, I just
know that the women needed to be protected and there's
(33:50):
he's facing a lot more. Um. You know, in terms
of this trial coming up in Chicago. Wow. Yeah, well,
thank you for sending some light on that. I mean,
we've all been following in that story now obviously for
a long time. M And okay, So moving on from
R Kelly. Unless a cat scream like of course, was
around a zoom when you work at home, you have
(34:12):
a daughter cab so he does enter, so at least
you know what the at least you know what the
noises is not coming from the wall, not the frog,
not this time, thank god. Okay, So with frogging, how
did this idea come to you and how did you
even begin to find people who had been accosted by progress? Well,
(34:36):
the company came to me with the project. They had
developed it for some time and lifetimes excited about it.
So having worked for lifetime in the past on surviving R. Kelly, um,
they told me about the project. It sounded really interesting
that it was non murder crime to work on. So
that was nice and nice reprieve from working on a
lot of you know, other shows that are more you
(34:59):
know that are hard work on terms of victim impact.
But surprisingly these victims were all super traumatized. So here
he is it's making appearance. Um, these victims have residual trauma.
They don't feel safe in their own home and UM.
So yeah. And would you say that there have been
(35:21):
any shows that you've worked on, including this one, that
have left you traumatized? Well, I think Surviving R. Kelly
did because it was just so intense and there were,
you know, constant threats going on. Um. I think it
was in the papers that you know, there was a
gun threat phoned in, UM to screening in New York.
(35:44):
So it was just you know, that was all in
the newspapers. It was in a Rolling Stone and several newspapers,
so that was really intense. But I mean I'm always
I always feel for the victims. When I worked on
a crime show, I don't just a job. It's like
I have to feel I want, I feel connected to people, um,
you know, who want to tell their stories. So UM,
and then I actually keep in touch with people afterwards.
(36:07):
That's so nice. We haven't done that, you know. I mean,
I haven't kept in touch with anyone in the last
twenty years. I only know Dmitri but Jessica. Okay, so
there were ten episodes and every episode is two stories.
Do they increase in intensity or is every episode just
banger so terrifying. Yeah, I think the first two stories
(36:29):
are the scariest, but then the last few stories are
also very very scary. So the first and the second ones,
um could easily sustain an entire you know, to our
feature film. They're that bad. Could you give us a
brief synopsis of the one that scared you the most? Well,
(36:51):
the first The first one is you know, um secret surgeon.
Um that that story was very intense, and the family
came home, Um, they were on big pation. They confronted
the frogger at the front door, but only after he
was hauled away and arrested. They found out that he
had been watching them for weeks and he had planned
on performing surgeries on them, and they found knives and
(37:12):
other things in the house. The second episode is also
very scary because the frogger was stalking and terrorizing the
family for months. He was pretending to be the ghost
of one of the women's dead mother. So that's very intense.
So yeah, it was pretty so the frogger was pretending
(37:32):
to be a ghost. Um was only caught later and
then after that person got out of prison went on
to kill people, so they were lucky to be alive. Yes, yeah,
and how did they catch him? Finally again, they saw
him in the house. They had left the house when
they heard noises, They confronted the frogger, they left, they
(37:53):
came back with the police and then the police who
got him out of no. No, I mean after he
committed the murders, there was a mad hunt. Oh I
am wow. Yeah. So is there a common through line
of severe mental illness and a lot of the froggers Well,
I used to referring to the first episode that you watched,
(38:16):
I would say that one was little I think an
anomaly because he was it was a random He had
fixated on the homeowners, but he didn't know them before.
Where's the second episode I'm referring to. There was a
relationship with the people who lived in the house. So
the frogger was really a stalker. So when it's random,
(38:36):
it's it's I guess, not as scary. But even still,
after the frogger is caught, people do do not feel
safe in their home. No, I mean, I remember, I
don't want to give anything away, but watching the first
story and seeing that there were notes left about like
you know, start planting equipment and and you know in
(38:59):
cameras and this of stuff and all these notes. And
it's interesting because it's like, at what point do you
think that they want to get caught or do you
think that they're maybe in this case in specific, he
was just so delusional that he wasn't even thinking like that.
I think he was delusional. But I think they're also
very lucky they came home and confronted him. So had
(39:21):
they not, he could have just slipped back up into
the attic and killed them in their sleep. And they
were they were completely vulnerable to him because he had
been there for a while and he knew about their
private life. And yeah, and he knew that he knew
their routine when they when they that's usually when people,
you know, find the frauders, when they break through rougine
(39:42):
and come home early or their schedule changes, and so
you'll you'll see a lot of that in the story,
when somebody comes someone from work early and they break
the routine, they find the frauder. I'm cringing. So that's
the article I had. I had read was somebody I
think was living in the attic for a while, and
what he would do is he'd come down in the
middle of the night and he just sit there and
why true sleep and like video as well. And it's like,
(40:04):
I mean, but there's some there's some weird stuff like
we're thinking, okay, people who are like, oh, I don't
have a big addic it ken't. But but they really
there's there's some crafty ways that they live inside these houses,
isn't it. Yeah. They can just kind of slip in
and then hide in the closet and then slip back out.
So it's not like they're just living in the closet.
Seven are living in the crawl space. Seven they get out,
(40:25):
they can come and go and then they slip back
and when they know the homeowners routine and then they
watch them. They watch them through air events. They drill
holes and walls, they remove electrical plates. Those are the ones.
Those are the stocking stories again, but the ones that
are just kind of there because they want place to sleep. Um, yeah,
(40:45):
in general, they don't do that. The good news is
for me is none of my neighbors want anything to
do with me, so I feel pretty safe. See I
am the opposite problem where it's like my ex boyfriend
is hiding behind electrical stock. I'm like, fine, we can
live together, but you put them there, so it's different.
It's different, and it's different. Um. But okay, So you
know the thing that's so terrifying about this is that
(41:07):
this seems like one of those things that the police
wouldn't take seriously. Do you find that that happens? That
homeowners would go to the police and report that they
felt like someone was in their house, and then they
were taken seriously or not taken seriously, and they do
a search and they can't find anything, and then they're
called back. You'll see that on multiple stories. And that's
really not the police's fault. I mean, they've they've done
(41:28):
their best. They looked in every room, um, and you know,
the frog are just slips out or there. They found
a great hiding spot and can remain undetected. And no
one would think to look in an air event well
not really hiding in an air vent. They're looking through
an air event location. They need more room to stretch out.
(41:51):
This is good. This is good though for people that,
um that thought that they were safe. We've now added
another level to something that your mind didn't quite explore.
So make sure you watch this show alone and at
night in the pure darkness, check everything before you just
sorry what you think is alone, but maybe not. Another
(42:13):
interesting thing that you know, ring cameras and surveillance cameras
they catch frauders too, So people find out they have
a frauder because you know those you know, those images
end up going to somebody's phone and then they're alerted,
you know, at work. So those are pretty good at
catching froggers. So I haven't recommend those. That's so interesting
because if I was a frogger and I saw a
(42:35):
ring light, I would assume that they could see me
or least plant them. Yeah. No, it's it's interesting. I mean,
especially in the first one where things are getting picked
up and it's like, wouldn't you want to put things
back exactly where they were? Right? You know. I think
it's interesting that it's clear that something is off and
(42:58):
they're not really putting in a lot of effort to
make it feel like no one is there. But it's
probably a psychological thrill for them, right, because I mean,
if you're going to sit there and watch someone, right,
you want to see them kind of scared themselves or
react to stuff and not thinking that you're there watching them.
Maybe the same thing as setting up a camera and
watching people's reactions to stuff. So yeah, they probably do
(43:19):
leave it not exactly the same for that reason. Well,
dmitri as the frogging expert, Well just right though, I
mean people, Yeah, there are some really sinister froggers that
want to instill terror into some of these homeowners, and
so they enjoy watching them being frightened. This is so
absolutely terrifying to me, kind of like we're enjoying watching
(43:42):
be frightened right now. I'm so uncomfortable. I'm so uncomfortable.
I'm literally sitting here just thinking about all my cabinets.
I'm like do I need I'm I'm like, do I
need to get a ring light? Right now? What would
you suggest to people to defend themselves against froggers or
what to do if they suspect they have a frogger
should probably just leave and and call the police that
(44:02):
they really think there's somebody there, especially if they see
evidence that somebody's been in their home. Um, if they
have tried that, and then I would say get yea
plants surveillance cameras all over the house, and I would
venture to say that there's enough crazy in the world.
There's enough crazy people in the world. Don't just turn
back to yourself and be like, I'm imagining this, I'm crazy.
(44:25):
Check it out first, and then like, don't just put
it on yourself and be like, oh, this is me,
I'm crazy. No, there could be someone doing crazy stuff,
and don't sell them short unless it's me, in which
case I probably am just crazy. That I think is
a nice combo. It's a nicet. It's like a surfing turf, exactly, exactly. Okay, So, um,
(44:45):
when when you were talking to the victims, was there
anything that stood out to you about, um, how they
felt or how they was there anything like a common
through line or um action that they all took, or
any sort of like big fights they got into families
with or anything like that, Because when someone else doesn't
(45:07):
believe you, it seems like that could really create tension
to the point of divorce. Yeah. I mean some people
think that they're just under stressed, especially they live with
another person, and or they think that, like I said,
they think they have a ghost in the house. Um there. Yeah,
it does create a lot of tension when one person
is experiencing the broady and the other person isn't so. Um,
(45:30):
but I think, you know, finally, you know, like when
he was watching in the first episode, Um, the roommates,
when they found the man's handprints in the bathroom, that
was enough. They all they all got it. But they again,
they thought they had a ghost in the house too.
I think this is the most uncomfortable I've ever been
on this podcast. Yeah, it is, it is. It's it's
(45:54):
quite creepy. And luckily, I mean for me, I'm the
type of person that likes to prove something. So if
my wife was like, there's somebody living here, I wouldn't
be the person that would go up in the attic
and I would check everyth Now, see there's not just
so I could say, you see, there's not nothing to
worry about. But when I was little, I found out
years later we had somebody that was like, I don't
know it was a runaway or somebody that that basically
had broken into our basement for a while and had
(46:16):
been staying there. But I think it was like I
think our next door neighbor like knew them and was like, oh,
you can get in there, and basically, so we offered
up our basement. Yeah, I didn't know. I didn't realize
this till years later my sister told me. But so
it was permission, well kind of by someone that didn't
wasn't able to grant permission. But yes, and I used
(46:38):
to go down to that basement by myself all the time.
I was when I found this out as an adult,
I was like, what the therapy about this? Reach? No,
this is it. I didn't want to bother the therapist
or you know, but the insurance as a hassle. They
want to see the card and so I just forgot
to bring it up at some point on this podcast. Wow,
this is the perfect time. Thank you so much. Okay, Also,
(46:58):
let me just say, um, Dmitri, I actually can't believe
you've never brought this up before. Well yeah, I think
I think it was suppressing it until it just was like, oh,
wait a minute, somebody living in the basement. I don't
know how long it was for, but any even a
minute too long for me. I mean, now, when you
go into your basement, do you feel like you have PTSD?
I would, uh, I don't know. I don't worry about
(47:22):
stuff like that now. Um, but I think it was
more of like when I found out and I thought
about childhood, me like that that scared the crap out
of me. But now I'm just like whatever, all go
down and check it out. God, what's it like to
be well adjusted? Yeah? Exactly? Well okay, So so Jessica,
(47:43):
You've also done a lot of lighthearted lifestyle shows like
house Hunter's you know, what do you feel like? Is
more satisfying for you as a producer. I mean, I
love that it's funny because you guys work on crime show.
I work on crime shows. I like to do compressed
and watch a lot of like home renault shows at night.
I don't want to come home and watch more crime
(48:05):
because I've been dealing with it all days. So, um,
those are those are just fun and lighthearted shows. I
really like him. But I mean I love the challenge
of documentaries and true crime is interesting. Um, also investigations
like even Catfish. I worked on Catfish that was an investigation,
but it's a love story first and a mystery second.
So those shows are fun, even though it's more of
(48:26):
a lighthearted investigation show. But I would say anything that
creates an impact, that's my favorite thing to work on.
Was there any episode of Catfish that really stuck out
to you? Uh, there's one where the Catfish Portunity. He
was a big music producer, and you have to be
(48:50):
more specific that that one stood out in my mind.
But I worked on a spinoff show called Untold Stories.
To these were like past tense stories, not to investigations,
where people tell their wildest catfish stories that they fell
in love with somebody and it was like, you know,
somebody already knew who didn't like them. They didn't like
them back, crazy stuff. So people are so bizarre. Okay,
(49:15):
of all the projects you've worked on, has there anything
that's really stayed with you or haunted you, so to speak,
or something that's really left an impact. Well, I'm probably
surviving r Kelly just because of the women went through. Yeah,
that stayed with me. Wow. Okay, Well, Jessica, I don't
want to take a couple of your time today. So
(49:38):
unless Dmitri has any other questions, I think I'm sufficiently
freaked out. Just I don't think we ever explained it
frog the name frogging because it's with a pH, right,
So also when you're looking it up, don't put in uh,
you know, don't put it f R. It's pH But
where does that come from? Like a frog that leaps
(49:58):
from place to place? So somebody who's like just moving
around undetected that they spelled it within pH rock the animal,
so people didn't think they were looking up at a
frog documentary. Good than exactly exactly. Yeah, So just make
sure you check your crawl spaces and your addicts immediately
(50:19):
following the podcast. Absolutely. Now I'm gonna go find crawl
spaces in my house, but I can't wait. So you guys,
just to be sure you've heard this before, but we're
going to say it again. The show premieres Monday, July
eighth at ten ninth Central and also streams the next day.
It's on Lifetime and it's called Frogging with a pH
Hider in My House And Jessica, thank you so much
(50:41):
for being with us today. I really appreciate it. All right,
thanks guys, thank you. I mean, just in case you
wanted to be freaked out. There's sometimes we can talk
(51:02):
about something on this show, on this podcast and and
we're fine. You can walk away from it like, well
that was a good conversation, but now this is gonna
stick with you for a while, isn't it. I'm so
uncomfortable to Metrie. I don't know, like the story of
the boy that hides inside the walls of the family home,
terrorizing the teenage girls for months. It's it's so interesting
(51:24):
because in my head, I'm like, this isn't a game,
this isn't funny. These are people's real lives. If this
was happening to me, I would be going absolutely batch.
I mean, you know me, well, yeah, I mean you're
you're kind of heading that way anyway. But imagine all
these times when you're saying, you know, here at the podcast,
we get screeners first, and we have the privilege so
we're the only ones to get to see them. But
(51:45):
now you realize someone could be watching along with you.
And that's our episode for today. Everyone, Um, thank you
so much. I will be hosting this podcast alone next week,
but I'll think I'll be alone, but to Meetrill just
be in the air vent behind me. But this is
this has been never again, Dmitri. This has been never again, Dmitri.
And also, I cannot believe you hoarded that story until
(52:07):
just now. Honestly, I forgot about it so much, so
much trauma trauma. I had to dig it up because
you know what, I think, had that happened and had
I realized it then, right, had I gone down to
the basement and been and confronted somebody down there, it
would have been a different story than finding out about
it when I didn't. We didn't even own the house
anymore like it was when I was a little kid,
(52:29):
and then I found out as an adult, So that
kind of it kind of made it a little less
not a little less real, but it wasn't as traumatic probably,
so see. I feel like for me now as an adult,
if I ever had a basement, I would just constantly
think someone was living down there. Yeah. Well, and especially
the way house is settled, like I have an attic
and sometimes I'll hear noises and it's like, oh that
(52:49):
it's so weird because sometimes it settles and it sounds
like a footstep, but it's not. I've been up there.
There's no way up there except through the house, and
I've been up there. You guys, would you comment on
real time crime hood posts or d ms on Instagram
and let us know if you're now checking every nook
and cranny of your house and if you're terrified. And
also if anything like this has ever happened to you,
(53:13):
I don't want to know, but Dmitri does because he's
starting a support group. Yeah, I'll wat through him and
I'll share the ones that I think you can handle,
So none of them. And if you find somebody, obviously,
feel free to call the police first, then reach out
to most after. Please call the police first, pretty much
always police first, and then call in live at that's
eight six six twenty one. Come eight six six to anyone.
(53:37):
Come it's eight six six two one two seven four
six three. Just leave us voice mail. Maybe we'll play it.
Real Time Crime pod on Instagram. I'm at Leo Lamar
e h l A m A r R TikTok with
five rs. Should dates at Lee Lamar dot com. Same
thing as Twitter, Dmitri at Dmitri pappis across social media
and you know Leahs show dates are up at her
(53:59):
site to so check this up. Alright, guys, this has
been a very manic episode of real time crime. We'll
see you next week. Stay safe, check your events, love
youa goodbye. It's real time crap it real time gro
I mean, is it actually real time crime? I'm solving
anything or is that just the thing we say, it's
(54:21):
a thing, we say, got it? Okay, See you next
week for more real time crime, only on i Heart Radio.
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