August 25, 2025 • 28 mins
Amy and T.J. spent the weekend going through the Ghislaine interview transcripts and while entertaining in parts, they were certainly infuriating to read for so many… because according to Maxwell there is no list, she did nothing wrong, Clinton did nothing wrong, Epstein might have done something wrong and Trump is and “was a gentleman in all respects.”
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey, folks, it is Monday, August twenty fifth, and Robock
and I were planning to do a dramatic reading of
the Glain Maxwell transcript of her interview, but it turns
out wasn't a whole lot of dramatic anything in there.
And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and
TJ and Roves. People keep waiting for bombshell, bombshell, bombshell,
(00:25):
something right to be dropped. Look, there was some it
was some fascinating reading, but once again, there's no bombshell
information that people are waiting on.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Yeah, we actually spent the weekend reading through the transcript,
so you don't have to.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
That sounds terrible, this is what we do with our weekend.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
But actually that is what we did for a large
part of our weekend because look, and it wasn't I
actually was kind of dreading it a little bit. And
then you had a bit of a head start on me,
and you said to me, Babe, if I were actually
on vacation or on the beach, I keep reading this
and because almost it was fiction, I'm just going to
(01:04):
go ahead and say it read like a fiction novel
to me because she was taking well, some creative licenses
with that goes and flies directly in the face of
what we've heard from victims, what we've certainly heard in
court transcripts and court documents, and her version of events
certainly makes a lot of folks look really rosy, including herself,
(01:26):
And that's certainly not the information we've received from the
people who suffered at the hands of her and Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
You know, even Epstein doesn't come out looking that bad
according to her. Yeah, me and she and someone that
we'll get to a particular quote and why we're saying that.
But even as you say, people come out looking rosy.
And I was thinking, who does look bad in this?
I said, Epstein kinda.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Well, she tries to actually make the victims look bad,
that they're not telling the truth. That all of these
women are somehow, I don't know, all together collectively tell
a story that didn't happen. And I'm sorry, but most
people who are familiar with this case and want more information,
I'm going to put it in quotes. Imagine me making
(02:10):
air quotes. The information that she passed along, frankly is
fiction from everything else that every other person has corroborations.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
So here are your headlines from and again, this was
just the first interview. Remember they did two interviews with
her down in tallahassee day one and day two. We
just went through day one so far. We might do
a part two for you if if we can take it.
But these are the headlines at least from part one.
And according to Glainne Maxwell, there is no client list.
(02:42):
She did nothing wrong. Trump did nothing wrong. Clinton did
nothing wrong. Epstein might have done something wrong, and she
thinks Trump is a really really really really really really
nice guy and maybe so.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Nice that he might pardon her after all of this.
I certainly coincidentally was moved to a cushier prison after
she gave this interview.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Okay, you shound motivated.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
She's motivated.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
But yeah, we're going to share that quote as well,
which is you might have seen it already, but it
is pretty special. The doozy, the tone sometimes robes did
seem cordial.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
I was really taken aback by that. This didn't seem
like an investigator or even a deputy the Attorney General
who was a prosecutor, so to speak. Yes, he is
interviewing a convicted criminal, a convicted criminal who is accused,
not just accused of but convicted of heinous crimes against miners.
(03:45):
There was nothing adversarial about this interview. There seemed nothing where.
There was no hard hitting follow up. It was almost conciliatory, like, oh,
just kind and cordial and certainly polite, and that read
strange to me from the very beginning. It was almost
as if Todd Blanche was excited to be there in
(04:06):
her presence, and again.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
He wasn't supposed in ness. I'm not sure what we
were expecting, but there are very there are a few
things that even in text read as cordial and friendly
or a warmth or familiarity at least in the room
that maybe it just wasn't in our minds. I don't
know what you expect.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
And look, I know, when you're interviewing somebody and you
want somebody to tell you the truth or to maybe
go deeper than they were willing to before, you want
to make them feel comfortable. We interview people all the time,
not from a legal standpoint or any position of authority,
but certainly as a journalist, you want the person you're interviewing,
even if they're considered to be a bad egg or
(04:47):
a bad seed, you still want them to feel comfortable
telling you the truth. So I understand there is sometimes
a need to create a tone where someone feels safe,
so to speak. So he did start off letting her
know legally she was super safe.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Yeah, and I was. Look, he put that on the
record she signed. I can't remember what they called this
type of agreement. It wasn't a limited immunity. I believe
it's what they called it, right, So nothing here was
going to be held against her, But he's put this
on the record at the beginning. The most important part
of this agreement is that this isn't a cooperation agreement,
meaning that by you meeting with us today, we're really
just meeting. I'm not promising to do anything.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Uh huh. But again, can we point out just a
few days later, she was moved to a much better
prison facility.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Timing looks weird, but hey, he goes on to say,
I'm not promising to ask a judge, Nathan or any
of the judges that's been assigned to your case to
do anything. We're just talking, and so that's the most
important important part of this agreement. Sounds like a weird
first day of zone.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
That was the most important part of the agreement that
he wanted people to know to make it look like
there was no quid pro quo going on. And yet
I'm sorry, but actions speak louder than words.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Well, I can't you know? We never there was never
publicly an answer as to what she was moved? Was
it because nothing official?
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Because how could they?
Speaker 1 (06:03):
But there was nothing official. They didn't even even try,
at least give it a shot at some bs for us.
They didn't even try. Wow, that's what they think of
as now. A lot of people curious about the trump
mentions that were throughout not as well. I shouldn't say
not that many, but they weren't that substantive. Necessarily, we
(06:24):
didn't learn a whole lot. I'll go at the exchange.
I'll do I'll be Todd Blanch sounds weird to say
you'd be Gallaine, Maxwell, You get what I'm saying. Hor
Todd ask which hair will you go at? The short
of it has to be the short? He asked, what
did you observe as far as President Trump and his
(06:44):
relationship with you or mister Epstein.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Gallaine says, President Trump was always cordial and very kind
to me. And I just want to say that I
find I admire his extraordinary achievement in becoming president. Now
I like him and I've always liked him. So that
is the sum and substance of my entire relationship with him.
(07:08):
Exactly not subtle, Okay, I get it, and maybe rolling.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
She might mean what she says. She might mean what
she says, but it's weird how she kind of slid
it in there when it wasn't really a part of
the question.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
I just I actually found it nauseating. She was gushing,
we can take it for a while, called him the
consummate gentleman. She not only did she not say a
bad word about him, she praised it went above and
beyond talking about him.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Isn't she supposed to do that if this man is
one of your few options for ever getting out of
prison in the next two decades. Yeah, I'm out of
gone farther.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Okay, baby, this is not political for me at all
when I make this next statement. This is just me
observing an an any level headed person looking at this
understands what's going on. The problem is if President Trump
directed his deputy Attorney general to sit down and talk
to Gallaine Maxwell in an effort of transparency, then release
(08:16):
those transcripts, and in all of that, we've got Glaine
talking about how President Trump did nothing wrong, he's always
been a gentleman, how much she likes him, how much
she admires him. Come on, that's tough. That's tough for
anyone to believe anything else. That then follows because everyone's motivated.
President Trump and the administration are motivated to say, we
(08:38):
didn't do anything wrong. And President Trump did nothing wrong
as it pertains to Jeffrey Epstein, he had nothing to
do with any of Epstein's crimes. Glene Maxwell has every
incentive to say that and to repeat it and to
because she is going to get something out of it.
Potentially she only has She has nothing to lose and
everything to gain. So how can you trust anyone in
(08:59):
that position period, who also has perjured herself multiple times?
Speaker 1 (09:04):
So what's the point of any of this?
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Exactly? So that's why so many people are pissed off
about it.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
But there are motivations, none of them having to do
with anything is going to be beneficial to us. As
the truth, Yeah, nothing is. We didn't learn anything here
at all.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
No truth was uncovered, no new information was divulged, and
most people. I shouldn't say most people, but many people
would argue that, in fact, the opposite has happened. Misinformation
has now been disseminated, and that's unfortunate.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
But that is where this is a little more gutting.
When it going, you think about the family, like, how
do you refute because this is supposed to be the
one authority we have left at least this is Epstein,
Glaine and victims. So Epstein's gone, we even have Vica,
very much high profile victim Giufray has passed away. So
now the only record we're getting, or the latest record
(09:58):
or updated record, or even new information on the record,
as she's claiming, comes from the one woman left who
has repeatedly lied and who has an incentive to do
so at this point. So to their point, right, their
statement pointed that out, and it's offensive almost that she
is the voice of record.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Now, well, let's hope that that isn't what ends up lasting,
we should point out. Also making news today was that
Virginia Robert Truffrey wrote her story, wrote her memoir before
she passed away, in very chilling words. She sent an
email to her publisher a few weeks before her death.
(10:37):
She died by suicide in case you did not know,
but saying in case I die, basically, I still want
this release because the people need to know. So she
will end up having her say. But in the meantime,
her family had a lot to say about these transcripts
being released. They said that this gave Glaine Maxwell, a
convicted sex trafficker, a platform to re write history. And
(11:01):
I'll say exactly what their statement was. The content of
these transcripts is in direct contradiction with felon Galaine Maxwell's
conviction for child sex trafficking. This travesty of justice entirely
invalidates the experiences of the many brave survivors who put
their safety, security and lives on the line to ensure
(11:25):
her conviction, including our sister. And that's they were referring
to Virginia at that point. But I thought that was
so well said, and I got chills when I read
it because I felt their anger, as so many people do.
These are women, and they were children at the time
who weren't believed for years, who were shouting from the
rooftops in some cases, and put their words and their
(11:47):
experiences into court documents. And then some of them, including
Virginia fled the country and hiding out of fear of
retribution for what she said. So this is just disgusting,
frankly for a lot of these victims and their families
who have suffered over and over and over again by
the lies that have been told.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Well, there was plenty more in there, and some things
that people were curious about. Donald Trump, did he ever
get a massage? Bill Clinton? He ever get a massage? Well,
she answered a lot of those questions. She also answered
the question that everybody's been asking, why would she have
participated in recruiting young girls for Epstein, Well, she says,
you got it all wrong. She never did that. And
(12:29):
who are the other famous people that she named.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Welcome back everyone to this edition of Amy and TJ,
where we have gone through at least the first round
of interviews with Glene Maxwell by Todd Blanche, Deputy Attorney General,
And so those transcripts were released late Friday, and we're
talking four hundred pages in total for both of the
days of interviews. But we got through day one and
(13:04):
there was a lot to digest, a lot to dissect.
I found really what she didn't say was tough. But
some of the backstory. I don't know how much of
it can be believed about how she met Epstein, what
their relationship was like. I found all of that to
be fascinating, talking about when she spent the night with him,
(13:26):
when she traveled with him, when they stayed in the
same bed to all of those things were just interesting,
but of zero note or I guess, importance when it
comes to the crimes that she was convicted of committing,
and certainly the questions people have about other people involved
in some of these crimes, who they may be, what
she saw, what she knew, And that was frustrating to read.
(13:49):
What do you mean meaning that she basically exonerated everyone
they talked about, albeit a few folks she said who
got massages. She didn't imply in any way that those
massages were anything more than just massages.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Oh I didn't. There is nothing, according to her, nothing
ever happened with anybody, right, nothing.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Well, she did say that Epstein may have done a
few of the things he was charged with him.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Excuse me, but all this whole list of people who
are getting all these massages? Oh no, no, no, she said.
She's actually saying that nobody than Epstein, possibly.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Including Prince Andrews. She says that none of that could
have happened, and that flies. You know. She even said
the picture that we've all seen of Virginia Roberts at
seventeen years old next to Prince Andrew with her directly
in the background in her home in London, she claims
that that picture is a fake, it's fake, and that
none of it ever happened. However, should be noted, while
(14:44):
Prince Andrew has denied any of the allegations against him
as it pertains to Virginia, he did pay a million
dollar plus settlement to her in her civil lawsuit against him,
so of course criminally he was not charged, but certainly
it added to his is he officially out of the
(15:04):
royal family? He is he has been relieved of all
royal duties.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
I can't keep it. Then they say he's coming back
a little bit because he showed up with this event
and I can't keep up with where he is.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
But clearly the royal family and enough folks felt like
he there was some culpability there, and certainly with the
civil lawsuit. We don't know how it was settled, but
we know it was settled for a seven figure settlement.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
All right to some of the Let's get to a
few more of the exchanges here. Todd Blanche asking Gallaine,
did you ever observe President Trump receive a massage? She responded,
you're supposed to.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Wait, I haven't gotten to that point yet. Where are
you right now?
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Gilly Maxwell responds, never. I actually never saw the president
in any type of massage setting. I never witnessed the
president in any inappropriate setting in any way. The President
was never inappropriate with anybody in the times that I
was with him. He was a gentleman in all respects.
Again going out of her way, not just that he
(16:03):
never got a massage, He was never in a massage setting,
no anything appropriate in any way, never with any body.
She made sure to clear all that.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Up fully, completely and without a doubt, exonerated Donald Trump
forever being a part of anything untoward.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
She did so with herself as well. And talking about abuse,
she was asked, did you observe over the years the
folks we're talking about, or others which we can talk about,
getting massages from young women?
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Glaine responds with this, I thought about this obviously a lot,
and I've given it some So this is the benefit
of some benefit of what I saw and some benefit
of what I now think. I don't know what that means.
So just for clarity's sake, I just want to say
for the record that I do believe that Epstein did
(16:57):
a lot of not all, but some of what he's
accused of. And I'm not here to defend him in
any respect whatsoever. I don't want to, and I don't
think he requires nor deserves any type of protection from
me in any way to sugarcoat what he did or
didn't do. So there's that did What did she say?
There almost nothing? She will She went on to say
(17:22):
this about Epstein, the man that I met and the
man he became. I believe that there was a progression,
and I don't think that the man I met is
the man that he became. I believe he became that
over a period of time.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
You know.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
She goes on to talk about how she met Epstein
in nineteen ninety one. I think she slept with him
a few times. She said they stopped having sex in
nineteen ninety nine, and she wanted to make it apparent
that by the time he was arrested in twenty nineteen.
She said their relationship was almost non existent. So she
is clearly distancing herself from any of the criminal activities
(17:59):
that EPs needed, claiming that they happened after she was
around him, that the man she knew couldn't have didn't
She at least didn't see any of that all right.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
She was also, of course, asked about what everybody's so
curious about other famous folks possibly that were in his world.
He was asked directly, who were the other famous or
politicians who were other individuals in mister Epstein's life during
that time period? So the early nineties, she.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Says, Congressman McMillan, Henry Wsofsky who was the provost of Harvard,
Joe Pagano, Jerry Goldsmith, Joe Roberts, Kenny Lipper, Dan Abramson.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Did you know those off the top of your head? No,
A couple of big time finance guy or two and
there big time lawyer in there. But I didn't know
those names.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Yeah, But she just said, did any of these folks
stick to your mind as having received a massage? Because
these are just people who she's claiming he did business with.
These were legit business dealings, his clients, so to speak,
his financial clients. She pointed out that Henry Rossovski received
a massage. That's the provost of Harvard. We've heard Trump
refer to him as well. And they asked, why does
(19:12):
that stick out in your memory, and Goleaine says, because
I saw him in a bathrobe at seventy first Street
and he had received a massage. He told me.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
She makes this all sound innocent, like just friends booking massages.
And I've read through so much of the transcript about
how just into massages Epstein was. She said she would
book massages and messuses for him, and it almost sounds crazy.
He always wanted a new messuse. He wanted to keep
trying them out.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Well, we know from the victims who have spoken out
Virginia specifically talking about being a young girl who was
a SPA assistant, giving a massage and being asked to
give naked massages. She was naked, he was naked, and
they progressed into sexual activity. It was interesting that Glen
also pointed out that Epstein, she claims, had a heart
condition and so he couldn't have intercourse. She said he
(20:02):
didn't like intercourse, but he liked other forms of sexual activity.
I don't know how that is, Like, I don't know
how that plays into the role or into the scenario
in which he allegedly perpetrated these sexual acts against these miners.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
But again you'll see what we mean now. This re
is some kind of a page turning and romance novel.
Illicit and explicit, I should say, in a lot of ways,
but it's it's some strange details where I'm sure there's
plenty of here. She's not lying about some of the
biggest things. Maybe we're not getting the truth on, but
it was just interesting to hear her explain that, yes,
(20:39):
I recruited messusus because I went to legitimate spas. If
I got a massage I liked, I would say, hey,
and this person was working at a license place, so
I'm not checking their certification, I'm not checking their IDs.
They work at this nice spa, so I'm sure they
would show up and do them. She said, that's all
she did, and that was her role, and that was
the end of it, is how she explained in this transcript.
(21:01):
I hadn't heard that explanation before.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
That's her explanation. But every single one of these young
women who describe her role in it say she absolutely
convinced them to go get these massages and then would
offer them more and more and more money. And she
picked women, young girls, I shouldn't say women, young girls
who came from broken homes, who needed money. They found
(21:23):
people who were vulnerable and who they could then give
large sums of money to send them out on private
planes bring them to exotic islands. So there was this
huge temptation and a way of life and financing a
life that they couldn't have dreamed of otherwise. So they
groomed these young women, according to the courts and according
(21:44):
to her conviction. So what she's saying is completely the
opposite of what the courts and the victims said.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Okay, And the idea of this infamous list. She was
asked directly by Todd Lange. So there's a lot of
conversation about whether mister Epstein maintained a list of people,
like a book of famous people that he knew, like
a it's called a black book, or a client list
or a list. Did you know of the existence of
such a list? She responds, there is no list. We'll
(22:18):
start with that. The genesis of that story I can
actually trace for you from its absolute inception if that
is what you're interested in, and at that point Todd
Blanche says it is. Then she goes into a story
I cannot even begin to describe. It's a long, confusing
(22:41):
story with twists and turns and players and plots and someone, ultimately,
she said, made up a list, faked a list to
get back at somebody for something, and then that became
part of legend. And this happened over years. But there
was never a real list of any kind that Epstein
(23:01):
kept himself. Is the story, okay?
Speaker 2 (23:04):
I mean, and look, there has been no list produced
as of this date, so who knows that could actually
be true. It's hard to know what's true and what's
untrue when you're talking to somebody who is a convicted
perjurer and a convicted felon. I mean, it's just impossible
to know.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
I don't think any of the conspiracy theorists, I don't
think anybody out there demanding answers. You don't even have
to be a conspiracy theorist until a list emerges, I
don't think they'll ever be satisfied.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
No, because there's too many question marks and there are
too many people who have told too many untruths, and
too many people have died. I mean, that's really the
heart of it. I did want to point out too,
because this was this one really and I can't imagine
what this is like for the families and for the
victims themselves to hear Glene Maxwell say this. But when
she talked about those messuses, do you remember when she
(23:52):
said this to Todd To toad Blanch she said, I
saw him meeting Jeffrey Epstein with lots of messuses. I
never saw a single massuse ever look unhappy or not
come back or whatever. So based on my observations, I
don't think that if you're being raped as now, he's
like this prolific, I just can't imagine you would return.
(24:14):
That is such a slap in the face to these
women who have spoken out.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
You're essentially saying, well, they kept coming.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Back, and they didn't look unhappy.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
She claimed she doesn't know what was happening in those rooms, okay,
but she said her only evidence of it is whether
or not they were coming back. So, uh, that's a
tough one. I read. That's that's the toughest thing I
read of hers. It's how that came. I don't think
if you're being raped, I can't imagine you would return.
(24:45):
That's uh, that's tough.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
It happens, I mean, the way these come to describe it,
young girls describe it. It happened slowly, it happened incrementally.
They were groomed, they were given money. This is a
unfortunately a classic exam of grooming. And she, according to
her convictions, knew exactly what was going on, knew exactly
what she was doing, and knew exactly what was happening
(25:09):
behind closed doors.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
And the last snugger will give you here is this
stuff about of course Clinton and Epstein, a connection that
those two might have had. She was asked about that,
she said, I we should give this well the question
the Q and A. Here do you know whether, for example,
President Clinton ever received a massage? She responds, I don't believe.
So he then asked the follow up, saying, and what
(25:31):
makes you say you don't believe he did, at which
point Gleane answered, that's a good question. The time that
Epstein and President Clinton spent together the only times I believe,
and well, obviously they traveled there was that you know,
the plane they went on the plane twenty six times
or whatever. That would be one journey. So they spent
(25:52):
time on the plane together, and I don't believe there
was ever a massage on the plane. So that would
have been the only time that I think that Resident
Clinton could have ever received a massage, and he didn't
because I was there, right.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
But notice how many times she says I think I believe,
I don't believe. I think that, Like she doesn't even
say her denial of all of this isn't even resolute.
I guess that last sentence, and he didn't because I
was there. That was probably the firmest thing she said.
Everything else was couched. I noticed in a lot of
(26:28):
what she said in her responses, she kept saying it
was twenty years ago. It was X amount of years ago,
to the best of my recollection. So she's couching everything
she's saying. Because it is fair to point out that
Todd Blanche did also say at the beginning of this,
while there is no deal that was being made or
no promises being given, if she lied, she could still
be prosecuted for lying. But that would all have to
(26:51):
be proven, wouldn't it.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Yes, And who can prove it at this point. Everybody's
unfortunately frankly passed away or no incentive to speak. The
last thing she asked here, I didn't realize this, but
as y'all know, Glen Maxwell was at Chelsea Clinton's wedding.
Isn't that crazy?
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Yeah, there's a picture of it.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Yeah, Yeah, she attended the wedding. She was asked if
she had attended any weddings with Epstein. She says she
didn't think she'd ever done so, and she had to
be reminded that she went to Clinton's daughter's wedding, but
she had gone with her boyfriend at the time, Ted Waite,
who was a friend of President Clinton. It's just those
circles at those levels and these folks, and it's just
(27:31):
they talk about money and politics and all of this.
A woman sitting in prison for twenty years now for
sex trafficking was attending the wedding of the president's daughter,
just casually hanging out there.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Well, she made a point to say in this interview
that she was the one who was friends with the Clintons,
not Epstein, That she's the one who introduced Epstein to
Clinton in that sense, like she brought him into that world,
not vice versa.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
My goodness, we'll China. You want to try to get
through rewards to you.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Yes, I think so. Although I mean, look, it wasn't
a hard read at all. I mean it was a
fascinating read. But again, as long as you look at
it as fiction, I guess it doesn't do the harm
that it could. But it doesn't take away the sting
that her words must have and certainly have had on
the victims and their families. So that's where our heart and.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Our thoughts are, right folks, We always appreciate you hanging
with us. We'll see you soon. We've got some reading
to do.
Hey, folks, it is Monday, August twenty fifth, and Robock
and I were planning to do a dramatic reading of
the Glain Maxwell transcript of her interview, but it turns
out wasn't a whole lot of dramatic anything in there.
And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and
TJ and Roves. People keep waiting for bombshell, bombshell, bombshell,
(00:25):
something right to be dropped. Look, there was some it
was some fascinating reading, but once again, there's no bombshell
information that people are waiting on.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Yeah, we actually spent the weekend reading through the transcript,
so you don't have to.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
That sounds terrible, this is what we do with our weekend.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
But actually that is what we did for a large
part of our weekend because look, and it wasn't I
actually was kind of dreading it a little bit. And
then you had a bit of a head start on me,
and you said to me, Babe, if I were actually
on vacation or on the beach, I keep reading this
and because almost it was fiction, I'm just going to
(01:04):
go ahead and say it read like a fiction novel
to me because she was taking well, some creative licenses
with that goes and flies directly in the face of
what we've heard from victims, what we've certainly heard in
court transcripts and court documents, and her version of events
certainly makes a lot of folks look really rosy, including herself,
(01:26):
And that's certainly not the information we've received from the
people who suffered at the hands of her and Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
You know, even Epstein doesn't come out looking that bad
according to her. Yeah, me and she and someone that
we'll get to a particular quote and why we're saying that.
But even as you say, people come out looking rosy.
And I was thinking, who does look bad in this?
I said, Epstein kinda.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Well, she tries to actually make the victims look bad,
that they're not telling the truth. That all of these
women are somehow, I don't know, all together collectively tell
a story that didn't happen. And I'm sorry, but most
people who are familiar with this case and want more information,
I'm going to put it in quotes. Imagine me making
(02:10):
air quotes. The information that she passed along, frankly is
fiction from everything else that every other person has corroborations.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
So here are your headlines from and again, this was
just the first interview. Remember they did two interviews with
her down in tallahassee day one and day two. We
just went through day one so far. We might do
a part two for you if if we can take it.
But these are the headlines at least from part one.
And according to Glainne Maxwell, there is no client list.
(02:42):
She did nothing wrong. Trump did nothing wrong. Clinton did
nothing wrong. Epstein might have done something wrong, and she
thinks Trump is a really really really really really really
nice guy and maybe so.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Nice that he might pardon her after all of this.
I certainly coincidentally was moved to a cushier prison after
she gave this interview.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Okay, you shound motivated.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
She's motivated.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
But yeah, we're going to share that quote as well,
which is you might have seen it already, but it
is pretty special. The doozy, the tone sometimes robes did
seem cordial.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
I was really taken aback by that. This didn't seem
like an investigator or even a deputy the Attorney General
who was a prosecutor, so to speak. Yes, he is
interviewing a convicted criminal, a convicted criminal who is accused,
not just accused of but convicted of heinous crimes against miners.
(03:45):
There was nothing adversarial about this interview. There seemed nothing where.
There was no hard hitting follow up. It was almost conciliatory, like, oh,
just kind and cordial and certainly polite, and that read
strange to me from the very beginning. It was almost
as if Todd Blanche was excited to be there in
(04:06):
her presence, and again.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
He wasn't supposed in ness. I'm not sure what we
were expecting, but there are very there are a few
things that even in text read as cordial and friendly
or a warmth or familiarity at least in the room
that maybe it just wasn't in our minds. I don't
know what you expect.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
And look, I know, when you're interviewing somebody and you
want somebody to tell you the truth or to maybe
go deeper than they were willing to before, you want
to make them feel comfortable. We interview people all the time,
not from a legal standpoint or any position of authority,
but certainly as a journalist, you want the person you're interviewing,
even if they're considered to be a bad egg or
(04:47):
a bad seed, you still want them to feel comfortable
telling you the truth. So I understand there is sometimes
a need to create a tone where someone feels safe,
so to speak. So he did start off letting her
know legally she was super safe.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Yeah, and I was. Look, he put that on the
record she signed. I can't remember what they called this
type of agreement. It wasn't a limited immunity. I believe
it's what they called it, right, So nothing here was
going to be held against her, But he's put this
on the record at the beginning. The most important part
of this agreement is that this isn't a cooperation agreement,
meaning that by you meeting with us today, we're really
just meeting. I'm not promising to do anything.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Uh huh. But again, can we point out just a
few days later, she was moved to a much better
prison facility.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Timing looks weird, but hey, he goes on to say,
I'm not promising to ask a judge, Nathan or any
of the judges that's been assigned to your case to
do anything. We're just talking, and so that's the most
important important part of this agreement. Sounds like a weird
first day of zone.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
That was the most important part of the agreement that
he wanted people to know to make it look like
there was no quid pro quo going on. And yet
I'm sorry, but actions speak louder than words.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Well, I can't you know? We never there was never
publicly an answer as to what she was moved? Was
it because nothing official?
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Because how could they?
Speaker 1 (06:03):
But there was nothing official. They didn't even even try,
at least give it a shot at some bs for us.
They didn't even try. Wow, that's what they think of
as now. A lot of people curious about the trump
mentions that were throughout not as well. I shouldn't say
not that many, but they weren't that substantive. Necessarily, we
(06:24):
didn't learn a whole lot. I'll go at the exchange.
I'll do I'll be Todd Blanch sounds weird to say
you'd be Gallaine, Maxwell, You get what I'm saying. Hor
Todd ask which hair will you go at? The short
of it has to be the short? He asked, what
did you observe as far as President Trump and his
(06:44):
relationship with you or mister Epstein.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Gallaine says, President Trump was always cordial and very kind
to me. And I just want to say that I
find I admire his extraordinary achievement in becoming president. Now
I like him and I've always liked him. So that
is the sum and substance of my entire relationship with him.
(07:08):
Exactly not subtle, Okay, I get it, and maybe rolling.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
She might mean what she says. She might mean what
she says, but it's weird how she kind of slid
it in there when it wasn't really a part of
the question.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
I just I actually found it nauseating. She was gushing,
we can take it for a while, called him the
consummate gentleman. She not only did she not say a
bad word about him, she praised it went above and
beyond talking about him.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Isn't she supposed to do that if this man is
one of your few options for ever getting out of
prison in the next two decades. Yeah, I'm out of
gone farther.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Okay, baby, this is not political for me at all
when I make this next statement. This is just me
observing an an any level headed person looking at this
understands what's going on. The problem is if President Trump
directed his deputy Attorney general to sit down and talk
to Gallaine Maxwell in an effort of transparency, then release
(08:16):
those transcripts, and in all of that, we've got Glaine
talking about how President Trump did nothing wrong, he's always
been a gentleman, how much she likes him, how much
she admires him. Come on, that's tough. That's tough for
anyone to believe anything else. That then follows because everyone's motivated.
President Trump and the administration are motivated to say, we
(08:38):
didn't do anything wrong. And President Trump did nothing wrong
as it pertains to Jeffrey Epstein, he had nothing to
do with any of Epstein's crimes. Glene Maxwell has every
incentive to say that and to repeat it and to
because she is going to get something out of it.
Potentially she only has She has nothing to lose and
everything to gain. So how can you trust anyone in
(08:59):
that position period, who also has perjured herself multiple times?
Speaker 1 (09:04):
So what's the point of any of this?
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Exactly? So that's why so many people are pissed off
about it.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
But there are motivations, none of them having to do
with anything is going to be beneficial to us. As
the truth, Yeah, nothing is. We didn't learn anything here
at all.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
No truth was uncovered, no new information was divulged, and
most people. I shouldn't say most people, but many people
would argue that, in fact, the opposite has happened. Misinformation
has now been disseminated, and that's unfortunate.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
But that is where this is a little more gutting.
When it going, you think about the family, like, how
do you refute because this is supposed to be the
one authority we have left at least this is Epstein,
Glaine and victims. So Epstein's gone, we even have Vica,
very much high profile victim Giufray has passed away. So
now the only record we're getting, or the latest record
(09:58):
or updated record, or even new information on the record,
as she's claiming, comes from the one woman left who
has repeatedly lied and who has an incentive to do
so at this point. So to their point, right, their
statement pointed that out, and it's offensive almost that she
is the voice of record.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Now, well, let's hope that that isn't what ends up lasting,
we should point out. Also making news today was that
Virginia Robert Truffrey wrote her story, wrote her memoir before
she passed away, in very chilling words. She sent an
email to her publisher a few weeks before her death.
(10:37):
She died by suicide in case you did not know,
but saying in case I die, basically, I still want
this release because the people need to know. So she
will end up having her say. But in the meantime,
her family had a lot to say about these transcripts
being released. They said that this gave Glaine Maxwell, a
convicted sex trafficker, a platform to re write history. And
(11:01):
I'll say exactly what their statement was. The content of
these transcripts is in direct contradiction with felon Galaine Maxwell's
conviction for child sex trafficking. This travesty of justice entirely
invalidates the experiences of the many brave survivors who put
their safety, security and lives on the line to ensure
(11:25):
her conviction, including our sister. And that's they were referring
to Virginia at that point. But I thought that was
so well said, and I got chills when I read
it because I felt their anger, as so many people do.
These are women, and they were children at the time
who weren't believed for years, who were shouting from the
rooftops in some cases, and put their words and their
(11:47):
experiences into court documents. And then some of them, including
Virginia fled the country and hiding out of fear of
retribution for what she said. So this is just disgusting,
frankly for a lot of these victims and their families
who have suffered over and over and over again by
the lies that have been told.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Well, there was plenty more in there, and some things
that people were curious about. Donald Trump, did he ever
get a massage? Bill Clinton? He ever get a massage? Well,
she answered a lot of those questions. She also answered
the question that everybody's been asking, why would she have
participated in recruiting young girls for Epstein, Well, she says,
you got it all wrong. She never did that. And
(12:29):
who are the other famous people that she named.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Welcome back everyone to this edition of Amy and TJ,
where we have gone through at least the first round
of interviews with Glene Maxwell by Todd Blanche, Deputy Attorney General,
And so those transcripts were released late Friday, and we're
talking four hundred pages in total for both of the
days of interviews. But we got through day one and
(13:04):
there was a lot to digest, a lot to dissect.
I found really what she didn't say was tough. But
some of the backstory. I don't know how much of
it can be believed about how she met Epstein, what
their relationship was like. I found all of that to
be fascinating, talking about when she spent the night with him,
(13:26):
when she traveled with him, when they stayed in the
same bed to all of those things were just interesting,
but of zero note or I guess, importance when it
comes to the crimes that she was convicted of committing,
and certainly the questions people have about other people involved
in some of these crimes, who they may be, what
she saw, what she knew, And that was frustrating to read.
(13:49):
What do you mean meaning that she basically exonerated everyone
they talked about, albeit a few folks she said who
got massages. She didn't imply in any way that those
massages were anything more than just massages.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Oh I didn't. There is nothing, according to her, nothing
ever happened with anybody, right, nothing.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Well, she did say that Epstein may have done a
few of the things he was charged with him.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Excuse me, but all this whole list of people who
are getting all these massages? Oh no, no, no, she said.
She's actually saying that nobody than Epstein, possibly.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Including Prince Andrews. She says that none of that could
have happened, and that flies. You know. She even said
the picture that we've all seen of Virginia Roberts at
seventeen years old next to Prince Andrew with her directly
in the background in her home in London, she claims
that that picture is a fake, it's fake, and that
none of it ever happened. However, should be noted, while
(14:44):
Prince Andrew has denied any of the allegations against him
as it pertains to Virginia, he did pay a million
dollar plus settlement to her in her civil lawsuit against him,
so of course criminally he was not charged, but certainly
it added to his is he officially out of the
(15:04):
royal family? He is he has been relieved of all
royal duties.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
I can't keep it. Then they say he's coming back
a little bit because he showed up with this event
and I can't keep up with where he is.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
But clearly the royal family and enough folks felt like
he there was some culpability there, and certainly with the
civil lawsuit. We don't know how it was settled, but
we know it was settled for a seven figure settlement.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
All right to some of the Let's get to a
few more of the exchanges here. Todd Blanche asking Gallaine,
did you ever observe President Trump receive a massage? She responded,
you're supposed to.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Wait, I haven't gotten to that point yet. Where are
you right now?
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Gilly Maxwell responds, never. I actually never saw the president
in any type of massage setting. I never witnessed the
president in any inappropriate setting in any way. The President
was never inappropriate with anybody in the times that I
was with him. He was a gentleman in all respects.
Again going out of her way, not just that he
(16:03):
never got a massage, He was never in a massage setting,
no anything appropriate in any way, never with any body.
She made sure to clear all that.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Up fully, completely and without a doubt, exonerated Donald Trump
forever being a part of anything untoward.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
She did so with herself as well. And talking about abuse,
she was asked, did you observe over the years the
folks we're talking about, or others which we can talk about,
getting massages from young women?
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Glaine responds with this, I thought about this obviously a lot,
and I've given it some So this is the benefit
of some benefit of what I saw and some benefit
of what I now think. I don't know what that means.
So just for clarity's sake, I just want to say
for the record that I do believe that Epstein did
(16:57):
a lot of not all, but some of what he's
accused of. And I'm not here to defend him in
any respect whatsoever. I don't want to, and I don't
think he requires nor deserves any type of protection from
me in any way to sugarcoat what he did or
didn't do. So there's that did What did she say?
There almost nothing? She will She went on to say
(17:22):
this about Epstein, the man that I met and the
man he became. I believe that there was a progression,
and I don't think that the man I met is
the man that he became. I believe he became that
over a period of time.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
You know.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
She goes on to talk about how she met Epstein
in nineteen ninety one. I think she slept with him
a few times. She said they stopped having sex in
nineteen ninety nine, and she wanted to make it apparent
that by the time he was arrested in twenty nineteen.
She said their relationship was almost non existent. So she
is clearly distancing herself from any of the criminal activities
(17:59):
that EPs needed, claiming that they happened after she was
around him, that the man she knew couldn't have didn't
She at least didn't see any of that all right.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
She was also, of course, asked about what everybody's so
curious about other famous folks possibly that were in his world.
He was asked directly, who were the other famous or
politicians who were other individuals in mister Epstein's life during
that time period? So the early nineties, she.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Says, Congressman McMillan, Henry Wsofsky who was the provost of Harvard,
Joe Pagano, Jerry Goldsmith, Joe Roberts, Kenny Lipper, Dan Abramson.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Did you know those off the top of your head? No,
A couple of big time finance guy or two and
there big time lawyer in there. But I didn't know
those names.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Yeah, But she just said, did any of these folks
stick to your mind as having received a massage? Because
these are just people who she's claiming he did business with.
These were legit business dealings, his clients, so to speak,
his financial clients. She pointed out that Henry Rossovski received
a massage. That's the provost of Harvard. We've heard Trump
refer to him as well. And they asked, why does
(19:12):
that stick out in your memory, and Goleaine says, because
I saw him in a bathrobe at seventy first Street
and he had received a massage. He told me.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
She makes this all sound innocent, like just friends booking massages.
And I've read through so much of the transcript about
how just into massages Epstein was. She said she would
book massages and messuses for him, and it almost sounds crazy.
He always wanted a new messuse. He wanted to keep
trying them out.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Well, we know from the victims who have spoken out
Virginia specifically talking about being a young girl who was
a SPA assistant, giving a massage and being asked to
give naked massages. She was naked, he was naked, and
they progressed into sexual activity. It was interesting that Glen
also pointed out that Epstein, she claims, had a heart
condition and so he couldn't have intercourse. She said he
(20:02):
didn't like intercourse, but he liked other forms of sexual activity.
I don't know how that is, Like, I don't know
how that plays into the role or into the scenario
in which he allegedly perpetrated these sexual acts against these miners.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
But again you'll see what we mean now. This re
is some kind of a page turning and romance novel.
Illicit and explicit, I should say, in a lot of ways,
but it's it's some strange details where I'm sure there's
plenty of here. She's not lying about some of the
biggest things. Maybe we're not getting the truth on, but
it was just interesting to hear her explain that, yes,
(20:39):
I recruited messusus because I went to legitimate spas. If
I got a massage I liked, I would say, hey,
and this person was working at a license place, so
I'm not checking their certification, I'm not checking their IDs.
They work at this nice spa, so I'm sure they
would show up and do them. She said, that's all
she did, and that was her role, and that was
the end of it, is how she explained in this transcript.
(21:01):
I hadn't heard that explanation before.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
That's her explanation. But every single one of these young
women who describe her role in it say she absolutely
convinced them to go get these massages and then would
offer them more and more and more money. And she
picked women, young girls, I shouldn't say women, young girls
who came from broken homes, who needed money. They found
(21:23):
people who were vulnerable and who they could then give
large sums of money to send them out on private
planes bring them to exotic islands. So there was this
huge temptation and a way of life and financing a
life that they couldn't have dreamed of otherwise. So they
groomed these young women, according to the courts and according
(21:44):
to her conviction. So what she's saying is completely the
opposite of what the courts and the victims said.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Okay, And the idea of this infamous list. She was
asked directly by Todd Lange. So there's a lot of
conversation about whether mister Epstein maintained a list of people,
like a book of famous people that he knew, like
a it's called a black book, or a client list
or a list. Did you know of the existence of
such a list? She responds, there is no list. We'll
(22:18):
start with that. The genesis of that story I can
actually trace for you from its absolute inception if that
is what you're interested in, and at that point Todd
Blanche says it is. Then she goes into a story
I cannot even begin to describe. It's a long, confusing
(22:41):
story with twists and turns and players and plots and someone, ultimately,
she said, made up a list, faked a list to
get back at somebody for something, and then that became
part of legend. And this happened over years. But there
was never a real list of any kind that Epstein
(23:01):
kept himself. Is the story, okay?
Speaker 2 (23:04):
I mean, and look, there has been no list produced
as of this date, so who knows that could actually
be true. It's hard to know what's true and what's
untrue when you're talking to somebody who is a convicted
perjurer and a convicted felon. I mean, it's just impossible
to know.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
I don't think any of the conspiracy theorists, I don't
think anybody out there demanding answers. You don't even have
to be a conspiracy theorist until a list emerges, I
don't think they'll ever be satisfied.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
No, because there's too many question marks and there are
too many people who have told too many untruths, and
too many people have died. I mean, that's really the
heart of it. I did want to point out too,
because this was this one really and I can't imagine
what this is like for the families and for the
victims themselves to hear Glene Maxwell say this. But when
she talked about those messuses, do you remember when she
(23:52):
said this to Todd To toad Blanch she said, I
saw him meeting Jeffrey Epstein with lots of messuses. I
never saw a single massuse ever look unhappy or not
come back or whatever. So based on my observations, I
don't think that if you're being raped as now, he's
like this prolific, I just can't imagine you would return.
(24:14):
That is such a slap in the face to these
women who have spoken out.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
You're essentially saying, well, they kept coming.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Back, and they didn't look unhappy.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
She claimed she doesn't know what was happening in those rooms, okay,
but she said her only evidence of it is whether
or not they were coming back. So, uh, that's a
tough one. I read. That's that's the toughest thing I
read of hers. It's how that came. I don't think
if you're being raped, I can't imagine you would return.
(24:45):
That's uh, that's tough.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
It happens, I mean, the way these come to describe it,
young girls describe it. It happened slowly, it happened incrementally.
They were groomed, they were given money. This is a
unfortunately a classic exam of grooming. And she, according to
her convictions, knew exactly what was going on, knew exactly
what she was doing, and knew exactly what was happening
(25:09):
behind closed doors.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
And the last snugger will give you here is this
stuff about of course Clinton and Epstein, a connection that
those two might have had. She was asked about that,
she said, I we should give this well the question
the Q and A. Here do you know whether, for example,
President Clinton ever received a massage? She responds, I don't believe.
So he then asked the follow up, saying, and what
(25:31):
makes you say you don't believe he did, at which
point Gleane answered, that's a good question. The time that
Epstein and President Clinton spent together the only times I believe,
and well, obviously they traveled there was that you know,
the plane they went on the plane twenty six times
or whatever. That would be one journey. So they spent
(25:52):
time on the plane together, and I don't believe there
was ever a massage on the plane. So that would
have been the only time that I think that Resident
Clinton could have ever received a massage, and he didn't
because I was there, right.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
But notice how many times she says I think I believe,
I don't believe. I think that, Like she doesn't even
say her denial of all of this isn't even resolute.
I guess that last sentence, and he didn't because I
was there. That was probably the firmest thing she said.
Everything else was couched. I noticed in a lot of
(26:28):
what she said in her responses, she kept saying it
was twenty years ago. It was X amount of years ago,
to the best of my recollection. So she's couching everything
she's saying. Because it is fair to point out that
Todd Blanche did also say at the beginning of this,
while there is no deal that was being made or
no promises being given, if she lied, she could still
be prosecuted for lying. But that would all have to
(26:51):
be proven, wouldn't it.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Yes, And who can prove it at this point. Everybody's
unfortunately frankly passed away or no incentive to speak. The
last thing she asked here, I didn't realize this, but
as y'all know, Glen Maxwell was at Chelsea Clinton's wedding.
Isn't that crazy?
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Yeah, there's a picture of it.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Yeah, Yeah, she attended the wedding. She was asked if
she had attended any weddings with Epstein. She says she
didn't think she'd ever done so, and she had to
be reminded that she went to Clinton's daughter's wedding, but
she had gone with her boyfriend at the time, Ted Waite,
who was a friend of President Clinton. It's just those
circles at those levels and these folks, and it's just
(27:31):
they talk about money and politics and all of this.
A woman sitting in prison for twenty years now for
sex trafficking was attending the wedding of the president's daughter,
just casually hanging out there.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Well, she made a point to say in this interview
that she was the one who was friends with the Clintons,
not Epstein, That she's the one who introduced Epstein to
Clinton in that sense, like she brought him into that world,
not vice versa.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
My goodness, we'll China. You want to try to get
through rewards to you.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Yes, I think so. Although I mean, look, it wasn't
a hard read at all. I mean it was a
fascinating read. But again, as long as you look at
it as fiction, I guess it doesn't do the harm
that it could. But it doesn't take away the sting
that her words must have and certainly have had on
the victims and their families. So that's where our heart and.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Our thoughts are, right folks, We always appreciate you hanging
with us. We'll see you soon. We've got some reading
to do.
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