Mathew Knowles EXCLUSIVE on Beyoncé, Destiny’s Child & More

Carlos sits down with THE Mathew Knowles for an exclusive one on one interview. From his childhood, career, Beyoncé, Destiny’s Child - They talk about it ALL. This is one that you won't want to miss!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Reality with the King is hosted by me, Carlos King.
I'm an executive producer who have produced some of your
favorite shows from the Real Housewives in Atlanta, New Jersey
and my own creation, The Love and Marriage Franchise and
Bell Collective. Every episode we recap reality television from the
Real Housewives Franchise to The Bachelor or Selling Sunset, in

(00:27):
addition to celebrity guests, whether in the unscripted space or
scripted as well.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
What mister knowles up, Carlo, I am in the castle.

Speaker 3 (00:43):
Come here, it's really here. He brought my favorite about
your favorite.

Speaker 4 (00:48):
My mama raised me, right, she did.

Speaker 3 (00:50):
Yes, don't go no one's.

Speaker 4 (00:51):
House empty handed. Never Well, you know this is you.
I'm in a presence of a legend.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
I got to make sure I looked the part, dressed
apart and you.

Speaker 4 (01:04):
Know, come looking good.

Speaker 3 (01:07):
So you're looking great.

Speaker 4 (01:08):
Okay, you come from Atlanta.

Speaker 3 (01:11):
Okay, yeah, I was just in Atlanta.

Speaker 4 (01:13):
You are literally making some deals.

Speaker 5 (01:16):
Yeah, okay, yeah I did.

Speaker 3 (01:22):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:23):
Look at the art. My mister knows the artwork.

Speaker 3 (01:28):
That I have to tell you about this house. We
bought this house four years ago. It was built in
the nineties by a black man. A black man was
the same man, architect and builder in our whole neighborhood,
sixty five houses, he built two, and we're grateful and
fortunate to be in one. And it has that spirit.

(01:50):
It does spirits that spirit. I feel that a black man,
this is good. Got the summer. That was that was,
that was, That's that. I love showing this stairback. This
is why I bought the house. This is why I
bought the house.

Speaker 4 (02:05):
Right TV Crims, all right, we TV what you got?
Oh lord, no, yo, I've never seen that before. I've
never seen that before.

Speaker 3 (02:25):
So when we first looked at the house, Gina, who's
your biggest fan bout it? Gena was down here with
the realature, you know, we were looking down here. Then
he was like, let's go upstairs. So I just stayed
right here. They got upstairs and he said, I don't
think your husband liked this house. She was like, no,
he's trying to figure out he's gonna bite it because

(02:49):
that is it was ray on. My price was raised.
Look at that.

Speaker 4 (02:52):
Oh god, I can't beat that.

Speaker 1 (02:55):
Come in, man, well, listen, thank you so much for
inviding me in your home.

Speaker 4 (02:59):
You have no your home is beautiful. Thank you.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
You and miss Gina did a splendid job.

Speaker 3 (03:07):
Well we've been here four years now, okay, and it
was a hot mess when we moved there, but we're
there now, we're there, We're happy.

Speaker 4 (03:17):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (03:17):
Gina trusts me to design this. The person that built
this house was a black man. I love that, you know,
I love that. So we're we're we're at home. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:31):
Well, listen, I give all the props to your wife, Gina,
because she's the reason why I'm sitting here.

Speaker 3 (03:36):
She is.

Speaker 4 (03:38):
I've been telling to day. You have no idea who
I was. And when my.

Speaker 2 (03:43):
Team reached out to you to request the interview, I
was told by my producer you said, but first of all,
who is this Carlos King you talk about?

Speaker 4 (03:51):
And then you told your wife She said, oh, I
love him.

Speaker 3 (03:54):
You need to do it absolutely, And I was like, rollo,
who is that? She was like, you have to know
who that is? Well I was like, okay, because I
trust her, Yeah, I trust her. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (04:06):
Well no, it's going to be good. So listen, I
want to start by saying this, and I mean this.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
With every fiber in my being, with every sentiment in
my soul. Okay, this interview means the world to me because,
unbeknownst to.

Speaker 4 (04:23):
You, I have followed.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
Your career since I was fifteen years old. What fifteen,
I'm forty five. I'm forty five years old.

Speaker 4 (04:35):
Okay, you are someone that I.

Speaker 2 (04:39):
Have looked up to for thirty years and counting.

Speaker 4 (04:44):
And the reason why I wanted you to.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
Know that is because you have no idea the impact
that you have made on my life being a black
man in an industry that at fifteen years old I
knew I wanted to be a part of. I do
reality television and podcasting and digital, but I don't know
at fifteen I.

Speaker 4 (05:06):
Was going to do that.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
But for me, mister Knowles, I saw a black man
who took charge of a white, male dominated industry and
you did it unapologetically. You did it with such a
masterful strategy, and I don't think you get the props

(05:27):
you deserve.

Speaker 4 (05:28):
So I want you to know this. Okay.

Speaker 2 (05:31):
I'm here to give you your flowers. I'm here to
give you your respect, and I also want to be
able to use my platform to educate my peers and
the younger generation on the establishment that you have created
and curated for people like me to be able to

(05:53):
take your blueprint. And it doesn't mean you have to
be in the music industry is for ever person in
the world who came from a community where they were
invisible and dominated, and this interview, this conversation rather is
an opportunity for me to let the world know how

(06:17):
much not only mean to me, but what you mean
to our industry.

Speaker 3 (06:20):
Well, first of all, thank you. Those are very, very surprising.
You never know who's watching, who's looking, what influence you have.
So to hear you say that, I say with gratitude,
thank you.

Speaker 4 (06:36):
Now, thank you, thank you.

Speaker 2 (06:37):
So listen, I want to get into your background, because
let's take us back.

Speaker 4 (06:41):
A little bit, mister Knowles when it comes to.

Speaker 2 (06:43):
The fact that you were born at a time of
the pre civil rights movement in Alabama, and I just
kind of want to know, like your story terms of
what that was like for you and how you were
able to become who you are today.

Speaker 3 (06:59):
So I was wanting eighteen fifty two so that due
the math a little small town Gaston, Alabama. I understand you,
No Huntsville, I understand you.

Speaker 4 (07:11):
No, thank you Oprah.

Speaker 3 (07:14):
Yes, but born in Gaston and my mother lived in
a smaller town. Grew up in Marion, Alabama, and went
to high school. Actually went Kreta King and Andrew Young's wife.
So imagine these three ladies going to high school together
and Mary and Alabama. Just like Correta, my mother took

(07:36):
up the torch of desegregation. And when she moved to
Gaston and married my dad. I never went to a
black school. Now imagine that. So fifty two Elementary I
would have been six years later in fifty eight Integrated Elementary,

(07:58):
Integrated Litchfield Junior High, Gaston High, University of Tennessee at Chattanooga.
And so growing up in Gaston, there was a lot,
a lot of challenges. I've been spit on, I've been
electric pridate, you know, ran by the state troopers running

(08:19):
after us, after doing boycouts, boycotts, all of that. That's
how I grew up. I had a lot of trauma
when I think about gas in Alabama and had to
go to therapy for years for that trauma.

Speaker 2 (08:34):
Well, did you gotta go to therapy starting when as
an adult or do you have to go through that
through your childhood as an adult as an adult and
the trauma that you experienced, did that show up a
lot in your adulthood.

Speaker 3 (08:47):
I would say not a lot, but at some point
I unraveled, had too much going on, and it showed
up very very strongly then.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
And did therapy teach you how to sort of deal
with that?

Speaker 4 (09:04):
Like? What was that process like for you?

Speaker 3 (09:06):
Yeah? Therapy did. Because there's triggers, right, you know, there's
things that trigger and trauma, and so I had to
learn how to understand those triggers. I had to learn
various how to Workaholism is a thing, just like alcoholism,

(09:28):
the isms. So you know, all of it is about
escaping from society, right, just escaping from the moment we
use work, drugs, alcohol, whatever it could be. And so
I had to understand that I had to understand the
value of my worth and not let that little kid
Matthew control sometimes my behavior.

Speaker 2 (09:52):
What's fascinating is you grew up, you know, with this
horrific sort of experiences by being sped on and all
the other stuff, but you were able to sort of
as a man, enter a career, you know, working as Xerox,
where you were, you know, a top executive there. How

(10:13):
did that experience your childhood manifest to where you were
still able to dominate an industry that at this point
was it even in the music industry. But you were
able to sort of be this executive at this company
and do amazing sales during that time.

Speaker 3 (10:32):
I want to come back to that, because I listened
very well. You said a word horrific. In my childhood,
my childhood, as tough as it was, I had these
amazing parents. My mom and dad were amazing black people.
My mom made three dollars a day as a colored maid.

(10:56):
She convinced that white woman to give her all her
hand me down and on the weekends, my mom and
her two best girlfriends, and I know this because I
had to as they got older, I had to thread
the needle for them. They would make these beautiful quilts, callers,
these beautiful quilts. My dad made thirty dollars a week
as a truck driver, and he would convince those white

(11:19):
folks that own the produced company to keep that truck
twenty four to seven, and he would tear down the
old houses, sell the copper aluminum, all the wood, the medals.
He would go because in Alabama, as you know, they
sometimes abandoned their cars in the front yard if it
didn't stop he would go buy a car for twenty
five dollars and sell every part on it. So my

(11:43):
parents as well as my grandparents were entrepreneurs, and I
love that. They always gave me hope. They all always
told me I could do anything I wanted to at length,
So I just wanted to go back for a minute, rewind,
and then now I answer your question about corporate America.
You're get a CeNSE of me now right, Yeah, No.

Speaker 4 (12:04):
I love that.

Speaker 2 (12:11):
But the thing before we even into that, you come
from a family entrepreneur.

Speaker 4 (12:17):
So was that instilled in you as a kid.

Speaker 3 (12:20):
Absolutely that, Sir Davis Whiskey, that's my grandfather, My grandfather,
Dave Holk, Marion, Alabama. Two hundred acres of land. Let
me tell you what my genius granddad did. He would
partial off like fifty acres to the paper mill in

(12:44):
this little town and they would come cut off the trees,
clear the bush and they would lease the land from him,
and then he would go behind them and farm. They
would pay him to clear off the land. Genius. Genius.
And at the same time it was a little creek
that ran through his property that he became a moonshine distributor.

(13:07):
I remember I was about twelve years old and there
was a knock on the door when Saturday, these three
white men and they knocked on the door and asked
my grandmother, it's mister Hole here. So it was the
first time I ever heard a white man called a
black man. Mister. I mean, I'm so proud of my grandfather.

(13:28):
You spent a lot of time with me. And on
my dad's side, my grandmother, they lived next door to
the best, the biggest club in that part of Alabama,
and after one o'clock she would make these fish and
chicken sandwiches and bootleg So you know, I had an
entrepreneurship spirit on both sides of the family.

Speaker 4 (13:49):
That's amazing. So both I want to stay on certain
Davis for a bit.

Speaker 2 (13:52):
So when that whiskey came about, was there a conversation
that was had about honoring your grandfather in that way?

Speaker 3 (13:58):
And there was a conversation that was a conversation I
I still think, uh, and hopefully Beyonce and I can
go to Mary in Alabama. I hadn't been there a
long time. Uh, just to experience that experience, that childhood
uh uh that I had and I understand better her
grandfather and grandmother.

Speaker 2 (14:21):
When you got to corporate America? Was that a industry
that you wanted to get into?

Speaker 4 (14:28):
How did that come about?

Speaker 3 (14:30):
Cause as a kid, always wanted to be a businessman. Yeah,
you know how we be a kid and and hey boy,
what'd you gonna be when you grew up? A businessman?
So I had mentors, uh, Rev and B. L. Walker.
He was a minister. He was my godfather, a mentor.

Speaker 4 (14:46):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (14:47):
I had my parents as mentors, and I always wanted
to be a businessman. Didn't quite as a kid knew exactly.
I just know when Reverend Walker would go down to
the story had a suit on. I was like, Reven Walker,
why you wear a suit just to go to the store.
And he would tell me it was about perception. Me

(15:09):
and Jena call it optics. It was about optics, and
I just knew that's the life. I wanted to live.
That type of life.

Speaker 4 (15:19):
All this xerox coming about?

Speaker 2 (15:20):
That? Was it some of you applied for or you know,
dominating that world of.

Speaker 3 (15:29):
What year was that? It was nineteen eighty six, December
sixth eighty six, Actually it was December sixth seventy six. Yeah,
because I just graduated from Fisk and I had never

(15:49):
been to Houston, and me and somebody frat brothers Omega
sci Fi had been there the month before for the
football game with Texas Southern, and I decided this is
where I want to live. So without a job, I
was working with the Bell System in Houston, and then

(16:09):
you couldn't transfer, So without a job, I came to
Houston and I worked with Pitney Bowls for a couple
of months, and me and some of my friends and
we were just you know, it used to be a
happy hour. Friday night was a big deal in corporate America.
And so maybe about ten guys, we're at a bar,
just hanging out a happy hour, and this little short

(16:32):
white boy comes up to me and says, can I
speak with you for a second? And I'm like, what,
I've been listening to you, guys. I've been sitting here
listening for about an hour and I love hearing your leadership.
You are exactly what we want at Xerox. And I
was like, yeah, right, okay, yeah, And then he showed

(16:54):
me his card, he said human Resources. He said, can
you meet me? This is Friday, Can you meet me
at eight o'clock at my office. I was like, of course,
that's how I got my job. You never know who's looking,
never know who's listening.

Speaker 2 (17:12):
And let's go back to the optics thing, because you're
just being yourself and somebody overheard you speaking and then
offer you. Would you consider that to be the job
of a lifetime. At that time in nineteen seventy six,
you could.

Speaker 3 (17:23):
Get no better than IBM and Xerox. There was no better.
And Xerox was ranked by Forbes repeatedly as the best
corporation for blacks in America to live to work. Let
me repeat that Xerox was ranked by Forges repeatedly to
be the best place for blacks in corporate America to work.

Speaker 2 (17:49):
And what was your job exactly? Because it was doing sales,
correct sales.

Speaker 3 (17:53):
And marketing. That branch was the number one branch in
this country. So I had to be a trainee longer
than usual. So I trained in another division, the engineering division,
selling a micro fish reader printer. Did very well as
a trainee. Then I got a territory selling copiers, was

(18:17):
the top sales quarterly. And then one evening I'm at
the office late and I hear a ticker tape machine
imagine that takes you back, right, and it's just going
off in the office and I go and I read
and it says grade eleven, and I'm like grade eleven,
like I'm on grade six. And I saw the salary

(18:39):
and then I looked at it. I couldn't pronounce the word.
It was zero radiography sales position. I went in the
next day and I asked the branch manager could I
interview for the role, And he kind of laughed, like,
you know, you just got here. This is like the
top f exelon of sales at Xerox. There's no way

(19:01):
you're gonna get this job. But I think it be good,
a good exercise for you, knows so. But what he
didn't know is the the public library was two blocks over,
and I went to the library every day I could
and study up on breast cancer cause that w that's
what it was. M zero radiography in the eighties was

(19:24):
the leading modality for breast cancer detection. M So I
I did my thing that I always do, research, research, research,
So when I interviewed, everybody had been there longer than me.
I was the only black then interviewed. But they talked
about well, I've been here fifteen years and I went
in talking about breast cancer and that impressed the sales

(19:48):
manager that I was the only one that took the
time to understand the modality. That's how I got the job.
Mm mm m.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
And what was the yearly salary at that t time
for you?

Speaker 3 (20:01):
I think the salary was around eighty five But forget
that it was a commission ah.

Speaker 4 (20:07):
Because you had to like go and sell this device.

Speaker 3 (20:09):
I covered four states. I covered Alabama, Tennessee, Mississippi, five
Louisiana in the third of Texas.

Speaker 4 (20:18):
So she's making money.

Speaker 3 (20:19):
Yeah, we did good.

Speaker 4 (20:20):
You did good.

Speaker 3 (20:21):
We did good.

Speaker 4 (20:25):
So going back to that time, so here you are.
You're a black man from Alabama.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
You are dominating in Texas at this time, and during
this whole thing, you obviously meet a woman named Celestine Bianza.
Can you talk to me about how y'all met and
where you were out in your life at the time.

Speaker 3 (20:46):
I was still at xie Rox Medical and my roommate
graduated from law school and I threw him a party
and she came with another fraternity brother. I thought they
were on a date, but it turned out as the
evening went on, they weren't. And that's where I met.

Speaker 2 (21:08):
Her, and you approached her and said, I am mister Knowles.

Speaker 3 (21:13):
I approached her like she was holding my vinyl with
her finger prints like this, and that was excuse me,
like please hold my vinyl like this, like I really
had a strong vinyl collection, Like I don't know, damn
finger prints all my vinyl. Like that's how it started.

Speaker 4 (21:38):
Yep, mister Knowles. You asked the question, and I love
the answer. So she's I don't think her vinyl wrong.

Speaker 5 (21:53):
And your way of breaking the ice is correcting the
waves being held.

Speaker 3 (22:00):
Even trying to break.

Speaker 4 (22:02):
You gonna make sure your vinyl.

Speaker 3 (22:04):
I was trying to break ice. I just wanted my battel.
I mean, I was really into my nyl collection.

Speaker 4 (22:15):
So what was her response to that?

Speaker 3 (22:18):
Kind of looked at me crazy? What That's that's how
it started.

Speaker 2 (22:29):
This is Reality with the King and I'm Carlos King.
Let's get back into the show. So what was it
like in that in that early days of dating? Like
did you know at that time when you first met.

Speaker 4 (22:45):
Mss Tina that this is my wife? I said, I
trying to see how long can I make? You should
have seen the look hell and damn brow.

Speaker 2 (23:11):
How happy people get to know your comedic side.

Speaker 4 (23:15):
You know, people think you're so serious.

Speaker 2 (23:18):
I love I love the fact that you actually are jokester.

Speaker 3 (23:23):
I have a joke that they don't now, if they don't.

Speaker 4 (23:28):
Know before, they know.

Speaker 3 (23:29):
Now every night, Gina, we we crack. I have her
cracking up, man, just cracking.

Speaker 4 (23:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (23:37):
But I'll tell you one thing that was really funny.
I didn't see Tina because I have to pause because Tina, Gina.

Speaker 4 (23:48):
I never put that together.

Speaker 3 (23:51):
Make sure I say Tina, yes, Gina correct asking me
about Tina. Yes, all right, Okay, we got that right.
So I didn't see her really for almost seven or
eight months. I covered downtown selling copiers. Then I was,
and she worked downtown. And there was Macy's where kind

(24:14):
of the black folks at lunchtime would congregate, and there
was a little coffee shop. It was a couple of places.
I saw it at the coffee shop, and I just
kind of looked in and kept walking. I saw her
at Macy's. I walked the opposite way because I'm like, okay,
she stood me up right, Because I had asked to
take her to lunch the following week when I had

(24:36):
met her with the vinyl and I had written her
name on the shoe box B hyphen o, Z hyphen
say and say why b ounce say say that fast

(24:58):
ys say yeah yeah. So she told me she worked
at MasterCard, and I got all dressed up. The next
Monday lunchtime, I'm at the receptionist asking for this lady

(25:18):
last named Beyonce, and there's no one that works there.
So I use my business card to then say that
I'm a service representative. And while I'm here, I like
to check your copiers, and so she let me go
back to where the copiers were and then I asked, well,

(25:40):
is hell tenab? I said, they're like you know, and
so I walked away disappointed. Almost three months four months
past and we're downtown two or three o'clock in the afternoon.
She's on one side of the light street on on
the other side, and we're looking at each other. We
have to cross pass and then in the middle I

(26:00):
was like, oh, yeah, that is that person who stood
me up. And she was like, get out of the street.
Let me tell you. I was waiting on you. I said, no,
you weren't wait on me. I was at MasterCard. She said, fool,
I told you Visa. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (26:26):
The fact that we get to talk about this, I
just love it so much. Okay, So you got the
wrong merchant.

Speaker 3 (26:32):
Yeah, I got the wrong one. I got excited.

Speaker 4 (26:35):
Okay. So then the coffee shop thing happened.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
So you guys were able to communicate, hang out.

Speaker 4 (26:46):
Obviously, you guys get married.

Speaker 2 (26:49):
When you look back on your life at the time,
mister Knowles, was marriage something that you just thought, like,
I'm successful, I'm a great job, I met this great woman.

Speaker 4 (27:02):
Is this the next step for me in my life?

Speaker 3 (27:05):
At fifteen? You were thinking this when you follow me,
this is what you were thinking. You were thinking about
my marriage and I was happy and ship like.

Speaker 4 (27:15):
Come on, man, come on, man, this to know I
said today take by defense.

Speaker 5 (27:23):
He's like, because you know, there's there's there's there's there's
levels to this, there's levels to this, and like I
said to you earlier, this is your life.

Speaker 3 (27:34):
Mister Knowles, I appreciate you for having this conversation with me.
I really do, really do.

Speaker 4 (27:40):
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (27:41):
So what was your question?

Speaker 4 (27:42):
I forgot that was.

Speaker 2 (27:43):
Okay, So when you got married, did you think at
the time like that was just the right thing to
do just based on like what we're taught during that.

Speaker 4 (27:52):
Era in our lives that okay, graduating.

Speaker 3 (27:55):
My brain did when you said when you got married,
I just immediately went to Jena, you want to stay
on this conversation?

Speaker 4 (28:06):
No no, no, no no we could.

Speaker 2 (28:10):
No no no, we could.

Speaker 4 (28:12):
Move on from Yeah, we'll move on from that.

Speaker 2 (28:16):
So the thing for me, though, that I really wanted
to get into, is you have this successful life for yourself,
a successful career for yourself. What made you though I
feel like, Hm, I see my child be this person
at the talent show who's doing great, but I have

(28:40):
this great job that is taking care of me and
my family. What wasn't in your mind that said to yourself,
maybe this is the risk that I should take because that,
to me, in my opinion, mister Knowles doesn't get talked
about enough because I know what it's like to leave
one career and tab it to another and have success

(29:01):
in it. But it's scary and it takes a lot
of prayer, a lot of faith, a lot of belief.
What was it at that time that you felt the
need to have at leap of faith?

Speaker 3 (29:12):
Well, I think you know often and you'll probably be
the first to get the interview right. Most articles say
I left Xerox and went on with Beyonce career. I
left Xerox in nineteen eighty eight. The then president of

(29:32):
Xerox Medical Systems went to another diagnostic imaging company, Phillips
was Picker International, which became Phillips. And I became the
first black in America to sell MRI and CT scanners
in nineteen eighty eight. And that's really important that we

(29:52):
get that right. That's a big damn deal that you
were selling a four million dollar piece of equipment that
it takes another two million to install in nineteen eighty eight.
And you've got to explain technology because his first generation
stayed there five six years, and then I went to

(30:15):
Johnson and Johnson in one of their divisions called Codman
as a neurosurgical specialist. I don't want that to get
erased because that was those eight years was before Beyonce.
So when I started working with Beyonce, I had twenty

(30:35):
years of corporate America experience in sales and marketing, being
the number one sales rep in the world, so I
had this. I want people to know what I brought
to the music industry. And so here's this six seven
year old that's passionate about music. She's quiet, she always

(31:01):
listening to music cause music wasn't around a a house
all the time. And and she finally, uh is in
elementary school and decides she wants to compete in a
H A A A music contest and we say yes.
And it's middle school kids, so we're saying she's gonna lose,

(31:21):
you know, but let's make sure she she didn't you know,
fall hard, uh that we hold her while she fall,
but she didn't, uh I. And she got there and
sitting there for the event and said, hey, mom, dad,
I'm getting bored. When am I gonna go up and
sing so I can get my trophy of my hundred dollars.
And we were like, how do you know you're gonna win?

(31:43):
And I was like, you know, you know they're older,
you might not win this first time. She said, oh no,
I'm gonna win. And when she got on that stage,
you know, one of her albums is named Sasha Fears.
This is why this story I'm telling you, because when
she stepped on that stage at eight nine years old,
she became Sasha Fierce. Something happened once she got on

(32:06):
that stage, and that's when I knew, and my former
wife knew that something special was here, that she really
was passionate. And then the role of a parent, my
belief is not to say I want you to be
this when you grow up. I teach a lot of those.
I teach a lot of students who parents told them

(32:28):
they wanted to be this, a doctor attorney, but that
wasn't what they wanted to do. So we were never
that way. I was never that way, but we supported her.
Then you surround your child with the tools. So she
got in dance a true excelled in that, got her
vocal lessons. Was really passionate about that. Then one day,

(32:48):
just out of nowhere, we owned a major hair salon
in Houston. These ladies came and said, no, that was
when these young groups were coming, sir, all those little
young kids were doing it that they wanted to form
a young girl group and they wanted Beyonce to be

(33:09):
the lead of it, the lead singer of it. That's
how it all came about.

Speaker 2 (33:13):
And was this something that Because I want to get
this part of the story right, there were two managers
at the time from my understanding, you're being one of them,
and I believe miss and.

Speaker 4 (33:26):
Tillman is not at this time, not at this so
that that was later.

Speaker 2 (33:30):
So when the sort of development of the group happened,
was that solely your vision.

Speaker 3 (33:36):
It was another step, and that step was the they
were young. I'll call them girls, the Girls, they will
call it Girls Time Accident, Girl's Time. We producer from Sosilito, California,
Arnie Frager. He had this amazing top recording studio, record plant,

(33:57):
Prince Dinah, Ross, you name it, that's where everybody would go.
And he signed The Girl's Time to a production deal. Again,
they were like ten eleven years old, and he got
them on Star Search, and as a dad, I went
because they thought they were gonna win for a month
and they got an extra hotel room just for the wardrobe,

(34:21):
and my job was just to help with the wardrobe.
But then they go and compete against a forty year
old rock band and lose. And I had shared with
the managers that I thought it was the wrong song
because it had rap in it. I was like, these
fifty year old white men that are judging, they've never
heard rap. I researched and watched previous shows. I don't

(34:45):
think this is a good idea. I think you should
do this beautiful ballad and Beyonce, they weren't even leading
the song. It wasn't about that, it was about winning.
I said, I think you should do this beautiful ballad. No, no,
we know what we're doing. And they lost. Asked ed McMahon,
what do a dad do? These kids are crying. I
don't know what do I do because all I used

(35:07):
to do was drop Beyonce off, go play basketball, pick
her up. And he said, for some reason, the folks
that consistently win on Star Search go nowhere. It's the
one that lose. And you know the names, he started saying,
Boys to Men, Alna s, Marcet, Britney Spears, justin Timberlake.

(35:34):
I can go on and on and on. These people
lost on Star Search, and he said, for some reason,
it's a defining moment. They go back and they change,
they change the organization, they change members. He said, boys
and men, they changed the member that's not the same
group that was here, and they rededicate. And that's when

(35:56):
I decided, why don't I transition. It's been twenty years.
That was my goal why don't I transition to the
music industry. I went back to school because I believe
knowledge is power, and I went to every seminar that
I could and began to build relationships. And by the way,
my first artist that I got signed, MCA Records, was

(36:21):
the number one urban record label. Everybody from Mary J. Blise,
the Puffy to you name it was there. Rapper in Houston.
Little Old is the first artist I ever got signed.
That Destiny shod. Oh see I got it all wrong.

Speaker 4 (36:38):
Yeah, well we're here to get a right.

Speaker 3 (36:40):
Yeah, I know that's right. There's this group called UGK.
That's the first tour I ever did with Little Old
and UGK. We went to all the clubs, was a
fight every night. I had my Ugk's Pempcy's mother, My
West was the manager for UGK, and I had the
brief briefcase. They had a bag of weed, a bottle

(37:04):
of Crown Royal and a forty five and the money.
That was my job to carry that briefcase and I
had a damn suit on. Everybody looking at me like
I'm crazy. And then after about ten of those I
was like, I can't do this though, so y'all got
it all wrong. How I did got in it, y'all

(37:27):
got it all wrong and finally got it right.

Speaker 2 (37:29):
Well, that's off here because I do my research like
you did, so I'm glad we cleared that up when
you made a decision to focus on the music industry
and do your research. Did you officially quit your full
time job at the time or were you still balancing both?

Speaker 3 (37:46):
No, I officially quit my full time job. Transition. I
didn't quit. I always say you don't quit, you transition.
So I transitioned out slowly as I'm going to school.
But we had a million dollar business. I was also
co running Headliner's hair salon.

Speaker 2 (38:05):
Yes, do you remember how much money you had in
your bank account to make such a risk? Like it
was like no fear of Like I got the mortgage payments,
I got the property taxes, I got these kids in
private school.

Speaker 4 (38:20):
You know you have this.

Speaker 2 (38:21):
You lived in a nice, big house, you live in
a suburban area, you live in the gated community. So
the sacrifice that you made for a dream. Mister knows
that at that time obviously wasn't happening.

Speaker 4 (38:36):
But you you saw something. Because I do.

Speaker 2 (38:39):
Believe that God gives every one of us in vision
that no one else can see.

Speaker 4 (38:45):
And that's fine, but only you can see it.

Speaker 2 (38:47):
But was there a moment where you look at your
account and say, all right, brother, you got maybe two
years to get this right, or are we gonna have
to like make some other plans.

Speaker 3 (38:57):
Well, you said two traits in my with the DNA
of Achievers, ten traits of highly successful professional You just
said two of them risk taking and being a visionary.
And I hope I was both of those of those traits.
I had a vision for the girls, and I was

(39:19):
willing to take a risk to the point that almost
lost our house, came very very close getting forecloses because
I was constantly spending money. I was sending packages out,
going to these all these meetings around the country, putting
the girls in the studio. You know, I had to

(39:40):
finance all of that, you know, So you know that
was a risk I was willing to take. But also
it wasn't just the girls. I had another artists again,
who I had then gotten signed to a record label.
So it was not I never left corporate America, be clear.

(40:01):
Just to do Beyonce, I love corporate America. To start
a music company, music World entertainment, which ended up being
management as well as record label. That was always a goal.
I'm not going to be doing a one off. You
obviously don't know me if you think I'm just going

(40:23):
to do a one off kind of thing. And I
hope we talk about music World in this conversation.

Speaker 2 (40:29):
Oh absolutely, because I do want to get into the
fact of the company and how.

Speaker 4 (40:34):
Much you sold it for you're still part of it,
all those.

Speaker 2 (40:36):
Things, So that's definitely something I want to highlight too
in this conversation because to me, what I want to
of course highlight is the intentions behind these risks, because
I do feel like nowadays everybody wants a success, but
a lot of people don't want to take the sacrifices
that it takes to get there. And I think that

(40:58):
you are the prime example of somebody who did it right.

Speaker 4 (41:02):
And there's so many gems and lessons in your.

Speaker 2 (41:04):
Story that I want to talk about because I know
that a lot of people be inspired by that. So
one of the things that I do want to get into
is the fact that you have this vision right.

Speaker 4 (41:17):
And obviously it works, and we're going to get into.

Speaker 2 (41:19):
All of the accolades that you have a mask for yourself.
But the one thing I've always wanted to ask you
because I to me, this is so specific, right in
terms of how you were able to have this vision
for this group. What made you say I'm going to
put you girls in high heels and jog and do

(41:44):
this sprint exercise?

Speaker 4 (41:46):
Because did you know at the.

Speaker 2 (41:48):
Time that I see longevity and I see you young
women being the superstars that will become the biggest girl
group of all time.

Speaker 3 (42:00):
That's a number of questions and I'm gonna answer again.
I'm a research guy. I love to research, and I
believe how you practice is how you play because I'm
an athlete. I was a high school basketball star, I
played college basketball. How you practice is how you play.

(42:22):
So I wanted to make sure that when Destiny's Child practiced,
they didn't know the lights might go off, the sound
might drop, even down to the point that a heell
might break. So I wanted them to practice because this
is how they were going to have to play. And
when they were jogging and singing, that was for conditioning,

(42:44):
and all of those things become important. And so our
artist development has become you know, worldwide acclaim. You know,
artists a lot of artists have gone through our artists
Development camp all the way down to media. You know
how you answer conversations, So we were that thorough in
our approach to the industry.

Speaker 2 (43:08):
Do you feel like when you enter the music industry
where you prepared for a lot of the racism that exists.

Speaker 3 (43:17):
I'm thinking, now, let's do a deal and we make
this a documentary and I can give you like ten
more names and we interviewed it. No bullshit, like this
is feeling real documentary And I'm good with that. But
me and you're gonna have to own it.

Speaker 2 (43:32):
Yeah, I would love to do a documentary on you.

Speaker 3 (43:42):
We're doing it now.

Speaker 2 (43:43):
Yeah, yeah, this is the precursor to it.

Speaker 3 (43:50):
Yes, Yes, what was the question I ever got? I
got excited got.

Speaker 2 (43:57):
Out when you enter the music industry because again, and
I don't want to make this about me, but I
need you to know that I was not prepared for
the racism that me in television had to experience, mister Knowles,

(44:19):
until I got into it, and then I saw I
felt all these microaggressions.

Speaker 4 (44:24):
And what I want to talk about with you is the.

Speaker 2 (44:26):
Fact that you know, listen, I want to fast forward.

Speaker 4 (44:29):
To the highlight reel if I may.

Speaker 2 (44:32):
Because we're going to do a documentary, so I want
to fast forward to the highlight reel if I made,
mister Knowles, it bothers me that you don't get the
props that you deserve.

Speaker 4 (44:47):
Like your white counterparts do.

Speaker 2 (44:50):
It bothers me that you never grace the cover of
Variety magazine, the Hollywood Reporter, Rolling Stone, and no disrespect
to these people.

Speaker 4 (45:01):
But we've seen Clive Davis, Scooter bron.

Speaker 2 (45:05):
We saw Clyde Davis because obviously he had many Houston
and obviously amazing artists under his tutelage.

Speaker 4 (45:10):
We saw Scooter.

Speaker 2 (45:11):
Bron because listening he had Justin Bieber, Arianna Grande. We
see Chris Jenner and what she did with the Kardashians.
What has always bothered me is the fact that you
literally have done the work to create the biggest selling
girl group of all time, the last girl group to

(45:33):
have a number one hit on Billboard Hot one hundred
with the song Booty Delicious. Your daughter Beyonce was just
awarded the greatest pop star of the twenty first century.

Speaker 4 (45:45):
With all of that success, I.

Speaker 2 (45:47):
Feel like you do not get excuse me, you do
not get the prophet you deserve and it bothers me.

Speaker 3 (45:54):
Yeah, I agree with you totally, and you know I
say this with a lot of gratitude. It's not only
what you just said. I mean most people don't realize.
If you look at Billboard, they have every decade they
put out a special edition. So if you look at

(46:17):
the Billboard in twenty ten for the bill artists of
the decade two thousand and two thousand and nine, Beyonce
in two thousand and nine of the decade was the
number one female artist. See people think this successful. Beyonce
just happened. So I want to clear this up. Okay,
Beyonce was the number one artist of the decade in

(46:40):
two thousand and nine. At the same time, Destiny's Child
was the number one female group of the decade. Why
is this important? Billboard is probably the only way that
you get accurate information. This ain't height, this ain't social media.
These are real sale those numbers. So I look at that.

(47:03):
It's extreme credibility on that. In that same edition, Destiny
Shall was number eight overall, Beyonce was number seven overall,
and jay Z, who I didn't even know, was number
nine of the decade. From two thousand to two thousand

(47:24):
and nine. What people don't know is, along with the
help of B. T. Sunday Best, when I came up
with this idea of destiny shall each having their own
solo projects Michelle. Because of Michelle, I started music World
Gospel and we partner with be T. Sunday Best. Most

(47:47):
people don't know that Leandre Johnson number one artists female
artist Gospel. We built that little small Music World the
number one gospel label in the world with three with
Trinity F five to seven, Nita buying them, Brian Courtney Wilson.

(48:09):
I could go on and on and on, and at
the same time I sell Music Well to a company
in London, Sanctuary, and we partner to form a record label.
I'm the president of a whole division of seventy five employees.
Who's on that label Earth Wind and Fire. Last album

(48:32):
with Maurice Old Jay's we did two albums, Daylight, Soul,
Sunshine Anderson. I could go on and on on the
record label side. Then I bought five young men in
their late twenties early thirties and made each one of

(48:53):
the millionaires. And they deserved it because they had some
of the top black artists in the world. We'll start
with Mary J. Blige about Kendu Isaac's He wasn't her
her husband at the time, he was her producer and manager.
There's a young man out in La Troy Carter and

(49:16):
his business partner. Oh gosh, his dad's top basketball player.
How could I think forget his day? Doctor? Oh, doctor
J doctor J Julius Irvins. He worked with Nelly, No,
you're close. They worked with Floora Tree Eve and then

(49:38):
towards the end of the career Lady Gaga.

Speaker 4 (49:42):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (49:43):
And I remember many hours talking to Troy as he
was going on his first tour and he didn't understand
tour and explaining it to him.

Speaker 2 (49:53):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (49:53):
And then there was a young man out of Saint
Louis that managed Nelly and then met Guildry out of
Atlanta managed Mary Mary and was by GM. There was
a reason why Nelly and Kelly did a song together.
There's a reason why Lady Got Got and Beyonce did
Telephone together. But people don't know this. People don't know

(50:18):
how it works. People really don't know, and they shouldn't
because this music industry is very complex.

Speaker 2 (50:25):
And all of that was just a strategy in terms
of how you saw things. So the fact that people
don't know that, is that your way of explaining why
they don't give you the covers. Do you think it's
because they don't know that? Or to be candid, do

(50:46):
you think because at the end of the day, you
were a black man who taught himself the music industry
and you came into an industry, mister Knowles, and disrupted
it in a way that you felt like, I am
going to do this to protect not only my legacy
but any artists that I have on my label.

Speaker 3 (51:07):
I think it's more because of the disruption I did.
I truly do, and I can't forget ever to leave
Solange out of that whole equation because we I managed
and she was on the record label. But it was
because of the disruption. I think in the early beginnings
I played that role of being behind the scenes. But

(51:29):
I think historically now people and to be clear, the
names you just name those magazines in the industry as
a whole, it's disruption. And if I was you started
it out, if I was a white Matthew knows, everyone
would know that. Everyone would know that what we've accomplished

(51:50):
and what I've accomplished in the music industry would be noted.

Speaker 4 (51:57):
Does it bother you?

Speaker 3 (51:59):
Yeah? It does because it's his story, not history, and
it's time that we don't allow his story. And it's
a time young people that get on social media and chatter,
at least get facts. Chatter after you get factual of
data and then whatever your perspective is, I can live

(52:21):
with that, but don't be an idiot and chatter and
you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Speaker 4 (52:29):
I agree with that.

Speaker 2 (52:30):
I agree with that, and it's honestly the main reason
why I wanted to sit down with you is because
I need this young generation to understand that who they
enjoy now has a direct correlation with what you built.

Speaker 3 (52:45):
Because it's not microwave success. And that's what our young
generation has to understand. If you look at all those
before and after in any area just talking music, I'm
talking sports, I'm talking corporate. These people put in the work,

(53:09):
They put in the work, and I you know, Outliers
is one of my favorite books by Gladwell Brother Glackwell
up in Canada, brother, and he talks about and he
researched for years. To be great requires doing it ten
thousand hours. And when you look at Serena and Michael

(53:33):
Jordan and Beyonce, a lot of other people, they put
in ten thousand hours, even in interviewing. That's why I'm
grateful to do well as a motivational public speaker because
I've done it ten thousand hours. That's why i can
sit in this interview and have fun and be comfortable

(53:54):
because I've done it ten thousand hours. I put in
the work, and so that's what I hope you are
people get out of this interview. Whatever their passion is.
Passion and work ethics go together. You just can't have
a passion. You can't have this million dollar idea, but

(54:15):
then you put in minimum wage type of work. I
don't go together million dollar idea, but minimum wage equivalent work.
You have to work, have to become great at something.

Speaker 4 (54:33):
Do you miss it? Do you miss do you miss
the music industry?

Speaker 3 (54:36):
I missed the corporate I actually missed corporate America. And
I've thought many many times. If I had to do
it again and it was done a different way, and
I knew that Beyonce and Solange were good, I would
have never got into the music industry because I was

(54:57):
earmarked and being tracked. I would have become a president
of a fortune five hundred company. I'm sure of that.
And I literally I made a lot of money in music,
but I would have made a lot more in corporate America.

Speaker 4 (55:13):
You think so, well, just do the math.

Speaker 3 (55:15):
I mean, when you are at that level, you are
making you know, ten fifteen million a year, and then
when you retire, you know, it's a whole different thing. Absolutely,
no question.

Speaker 2 (55:31):
I'm surprised by that because and I'm gonna take on
surprised by it because.

Speaker 4 (55:38):
And I do mean this, and I hope you feel
the sincerity.

Speaker 2 (55:42):
If it wasn't for you, we wouldn't have Beyonce Somange
Destiny's child.

Speaker 4 (55:49):
We wouldn't. That's my opinion.

Speaker 3 (55:51):
I do believe this.

Speaker 4 (55:53):
I do believe this.

Speaker 2 (55:54):
I get that there's tons of people who say Kim
Kardashian them the Kardashians would be nothing about Chris Jenner.
And I understand what that means based on this Mama
bear having to orchestrate people.

Speaker 4 (56:05):
She know, I think you were the only one.

Speaker 2 (56:11):
And I want this generation to know that, despite what
they may feel or whatever. And again I'm getting trouble
for saying this and my apologies in the band, I
strongly believe we wouldn't be.

Speaker 4 (56:25):
Enjoying the music or even knowing who they are. But
it wasn't for you.

Speaker 2 (56:29):
And that's why for me, a father's sacrifice to see
his kids' dreams comes true should never ever be relegated
to just like, oh what he was just there doing
a father does, and I don't believe in that. I
look at you and Joe Jackson, in my humble opinion,
I think you and Joe Jackson are the most disrespected

(56:51):
black men to ever exist in the music industry. And
I strongly believe that because you two have to be
a father and a man and what that presented itself
to this industry, which is why I feel sad that
Joe Jackson's legacy in my opinion, and you don't have
to agree with this, obviously, you know what you want

(57:11):
to do. It hurts my soul that Joe Jackson's legacy
to me is the fact that people see him as, oh, well, you.

Speaker 4 (57:19):
You whip your kids.

Speaker 2 (57:21):
You whipped your kids, not really seeing the sacrifice this
black man made twenty years thirty years before your time.
And when I look at you and I see you
made the same sacrifice this and people just say, oh, whatever,
you know, he did this, he did that, And it's like, do.

Speaker 4 (57:40):
You not understand what that means?

Speaker 2 (57:42):
Do you not understand what it means to dominate an
industry that isn't welcoming to someone who looks like you.
You are tall, handsome, dark skinned black man, and you
came in And my favorite story is how you came
into the record label and you switch the lights back
and forth.

Speaker 3 (57:57):
So keep the lights on, and you said, I keep
the light on this.

Speaker 4 (58:00):
You know what I'm saying, like, stop playing with me.
Your approach may.

Speaker 2 (58:07):
Not have been the virgin Mary right. Your approach to
getting things done may not have been the most Pollyannic
way of doing it, but let the records show is
because you also weren't welcomed into their world either.

Speaker 3 (58:27):
Well, two things come to mind. There's a part of
me certainly agrees with the father part. I think in
all respect to mister Jackson, he came with a more
musical background than I did, so his approach was coming
from a musical standpoint. They will ban that's different than

(58:51):
a group just the whole ethos of it all. I
brought and go back to corporate. A lot out of
our success is my corporate macro approach. I'm so proud
of this showman. There's a number of people that I've
had the opportunity to in some way mentor so. The

(59:15):
president of Sony Music Publishing of John Platt, I have
so much respect for this young man who used to
fly down from Denver and talk to me and we
would just talk. And I saw this young I could
see in some people that they are star. You're a star.
I just met you. You're a star. I didn't know

(59:37):
what to respect. But John just told me last week.
He said, I never really forget you gave me this
message on leadership, and you invited me to go Beyonce's
first performance at MTV. And you were there and you
were checking everything out, and they brought in the audience

(01:00:00):
and you got on the phone and you like talking
to her publicist. You were going off like, what is this?
This ain't no damn b e T. Why all these
black people in the front row. I need some damn
white people in the front row. This is damn Beyonce's
first time on MTV. What the hell is going on?
And he was and then he said. I looked at
you and I was like and then I said, okay,

(01:00:22):
I fixed that. We gotta go. He was like, you're
not gonna stay. I said, I can't build being here
watching all the things Beyonce are doing. I gotta go
make shit happen. I was never that manager that had
the I was on Macro, I wasn't micro. So my

(01:00:43):
point is my approach was corporate. My approach was I
knew the budget of Columbia Records marketing budget was let's
say a million dollars. I needed to go to Lorel
and get Destiny Child, Kelly's Salons, Beyonce, they all did

(01:01:04):
things with Laurel get their music in the commercial or
get them in the commercial and as well as their music,
Laurel has a twenty five million dollar marketing budget. So
why would I accept the million dollars when I could
go out and bring in these strategic partners who had

(01:01:26):
twenty five million dollar budgets. That's what's a secret sauce.
Along with the talent and the passion of the ladies,
along with having great songs, along with and I'm having
this next week. I'm planning right now my first masterclass
at Prairieview, the strategy for Destiny's Child. If you think

(01:01:51):
about imaging in nineteen ninety seven, it was TILC had
to the bag, baggy boots, WV, same thing, escape, same thing,
and bam, here comes glamor and glitz by this little
young group. Nobody's understood bills, bills, bills say my name,

(01:02:17):
Booty lishes girls, girls, girls, independent woman, female empowerment. Everything
was about female empowerment. And that's what branding is, what
differentiates you and understanding brand development. That's what we did

(01:02:42):
at the industry. They were selling records, I was building brands.
Different approach.

Speaker 4 (01:02:52):
No, that's empowering.

Speaker 2 (01:02:53):
It's empowering because when you look at that era, it
was all about that.

Speaker 4 (01:02:57):
It's funniness and knows.

Speaker 2 (01:02:58):
Iva was reading this article recently about the makings of
Independent Women and how Columba records her Part two. Then
they hire this production and obviously the beauty of you
is you understood immediately the pop publishing and what that
meant and really, you know, making sure that those girls

(01:03:21):
understood publishing and writing your own music. And one of
my favorite stories from LaToya Luckett is when she talked about,
you know, they had a day off and they were
teenage girls and they're playing and she told this a
tank and she said she was like, where's Beyonce.

Speaker 4 (01:03:36):
And they're like, oh, she's Beyonce. It's in the car.

Speaker 2 (01:03:38):
And she goes to the car and your daughter is
and she says, hot outside. She's in her car and
she's writing music and she sacrificed playing to write music.
And that, to me, I always thought about in terms
of like, I just felt.

Speaker 4 (01:03:54):
Like your DNA is so much, so much into that.
So my question to you is do you you feel.

Speaker 2 (01:04:00):
Like you have sacrificed your life to make other people's
dreams come true?

Speaker 3 (01:04:05):
Absolutely, I think a lot of us have sacrificeice of
black men and women. Again, now you know my background
growing up and those experiences that I had growing up,
I've seen a lot of people's sacrifice. I see my parents' sacrifice.
I see my daughter's sacrifice for their kids. Now, so

(01:04:29):
I think as leaders, the keyword is leadership. As if
you're going to be a leader, that's part of it.
Part of being a leader is letting that water just
fall off of you. Part of being a leader is
being ethical. Leadership is a strong thing, and every team

(01:04:53):
needs a coach, So I absolutely that leadership role. I
accepted that.

Speaker 2 (01:05:00):
Now, what do you feel like it's the one thing
that the public got it wrong about you?

Speaker 3 (01:05:09):
How much I love Jena Avery knows No, I'm serious, Like,
I think the one thing people don't know is I'm
a cancer survivor. And six years now I went through
cancer and COVID at the same time. And actually that's

(01:05:35):
when we bought this house. Actually and my you know,
Jena and I are now married twelve years, so that
was halfway in in the first half. It's like any
new marriage. There's some ups and downs, some tough sides,
but COVID and cancer our lives have been so amazing

(01:05:57):
and I'm so grateful for that. I'm so grateful that
I have this wonderful woman that encourages me and we
laugh and smile and it's one hundred percent authentic, there's
no bullshit. That's what most people don't know is how
happy I am. That's what they don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:06:17):
And do you feel like your wife, Gina provides you
with this peace and happiness that you're now able to
at this time in your life. You're still working and
you're still you know, motivational, speaking, and you're in London,
you know, teaching, and you're doing all these things. But
is it nice that you have Gina, that you get

(01:06:39):
to sit back and look at this view and have
someone to enjoy all this with.

Speaker 3 (01:06:43):
Absolutely. I mean it means the world to me. I
would be quite lonely without it. We travel and around
each other probably ninety seven percent. I think sometimes you
want me to. I think she like, give me a
little space. But no, I'm extremely happy today and I

(01:07:04):
hope that shows because it's authentic and it's real.

Speaker 4 (01:07:10):
Yes, No, I mean, listen, it is authentic.

Speaker 2 (01:07:12):
And even you know, when you talk about your cancer diagnosis,
a lot of people don't know this. You were diagnosed
with breast cancer. Males male breast cancer, and I don't
think people even understand that that's a real thing. Like
did you know that prior to your diagnosis? I mean
obviously you you sold, you know, equipment that dealt with

(01:07:32):
cancerous situations, but did you were you're aware that male
breast cancer was even a thing.

Speaker 3 (01:07:38):
Well, I sold specifically mammography equipment, and so yet the
answer is yes, we did training in the eighties when
we were the number one modality, we did training on
male breast cancer. Twenty two thousand men a year worldwide
are diagnosed with male breast care. Answer. But the more

(01:08:00):
important thing is through that experience, and I got a
genetic test. There's something called BROCA too. Mutated. Half of
the world, almost experts say, are mutated. That's why we
have so much disease. People are walking around with mutations
with their genes from their parents and grandparents minds. Is

(01:08:24):
called BROCA two and for men, that mean the higher
risk for prostate cancer. My grandfather died of prostate Three
of my dad's brothers died of prostate His only living brother,
ninety three, had prostate cancer. Overcame it. Breast cancer is

(01:08:45):
I've done research. My grandmother on my mother's side sister
died of breast cancer. My mother's only sister died of
breast cancer. Two of her three daughters died of breast cancer.
So I've learned about early detection for both prostate one
and eight men in their lifetime will be diagnosed with
prostate cancer. Let me say that again. One in eight,

(01:09:10):
seventy five percent greater risks for black men. One in
eight women will be diagnosed with breast cancer in their
lifetime higher risks for black women. So it's important for
me at this point in my life to share those things,
and that gives me a lot of joy to be

(01:09:33):
on the forefront messaging how important it is for early
detection as well, and that brings peace and joy to
me as well. Some days I just look out the window.
Some days I just look out the window. That's where
my creativity comes from. It's just being still. I've lost
about forty pounds over the last five or six years.

(01:09:58):
I exercise walk two miles, you know, three or four
times a day. I changed my diet and what I eat.
All of that along with spirituality, along with friendship. My
best friend is my wife, all of that becomes important.

Speaker 2 (01:10:20):
Take care of you so I love that because we
need you around, because we need you to teach the world.

Speaker 3 (01:10:25):
I don't plan on going nowhere.

Speaker 4 (01:10:27):
Yeah no, I got you the number.

Speaker 2 (01:10:32):
I'm gonna make sure I get I get a picture
of everything you eat.

Speaker 4 (01:10:35):
Yeah, we got we got some things to do.

Speaker 2 (01:10:38):
So before I wrap this up, I do I do
want to ask you this. When you look back on
your life, mister Knowles, and everything you have created, curated,
managed to develop, I want to list some names, and
I just want you to talk to the to me
into the world about your proudest moments of each of

(01:10:59):
the people are able to do that. When you look
at your granddaughter Blue Ivy on stage and she's twelve
years old and she is just doing amazing things choreography
and lion king.

Speaker 4 (01:11:14):
And amazing stuff. When you look at Blue Ivy, what
do you what comes to mind?

Speaker 3 (01:11:21):
Proudest moment. I was in London the very first time
she danced. I take that back. It was the second
time she danced. I was in London and I went
backstage and I was like, I went backstage and I
was like, well, we'll Beyonce's where's Blue Ivy And she says, Oh,

(01:11:41):
she's in there practicing. I was like, oh, okay, she's practicing. Yeah,
she's practicing. And I was like, she's going to dance again.
Because it was never meant to be this ongoing that
she was going to perform. It was a one off
and she had a young girl friend that travel and
her parents travel and she Beyonce said, yeah, uh her

(01:12:05):
friend uh talked how bad she danced last night on
social media and so she being in there practicing that
was a problem moment for me that she took because
in life, failure and mistakes are opportunities, opportunity to grow

(01:12:28):
and get better. Again, it goes back to Star Search
and the people that lost and the the people that won,
but the ones lost got better. And then to hear
Blue about Blue Ivy that someone said something negative, negative,
that that wasn't good. She didn't go and go write
post some negativity on social media. She went in practice.

(01:12:53):
That was a problem moment. Hopefully you all understand that
she didn't go post negative stuff. She went and practiced
because she needed to practice. And she understood that at
a young age that if I'm gonna get better, I
have to put in the work. So that's the Blue
Libby problem.

Speaker 2 (01:13:13):
Mama, your grandson Joel's jewels, jewels, that's my boy.

Speaker 3 (01:13:21):
So gush, what would be my proud moment with jewels?

Speaker 6 (01:13:25):
Man?

Speaker 3 (01:13:27):
I guess one time we were recently, we were in
New York and we had lunch and it was a
long lunch and it was a problem Mama to hear
him because of me. Papa G. He was like, Papa G,
I'm so happy I got my bank account, I got
my credit cards, I'm saving all my receipts. I was like, okay, okay.

(01:13:57):
I was proud of him to see who's going into
man into a businessman. So that was a problem moment
for him.

Speaker 2 (01:14:05):
Your twins, your twin grandchildren, Roomy and Sir.

Speaker 3 (01:14:10):
They're young. Yeah, so you know their proud moment has
yet to come, but just to watch them grow up.

Speaker 4 (01:14:18):
Michelle Williams.

Speaker 3 (01:14:20):
Michelle is the connector of why Destiny Charles stayed because
Michelle has never been negative. Michelle has always been let's
do this. Is that what you guys want to me,
Let's do it. She has been a connector. She's never

(01:14:42):
had one negative comment or action as long as I've
known her, not one. And by the way, Michelle's on
Broadway strategically, going back to when I put her on
Aida again, people don't know these aren't happenstance stuff. I

(01:15:04):
mean that was each one of those ladies were ill earmarked,
earmarked by me of what the future could bring. Michelle
was Gospel, She's had four number one Gospel, and it
was then Broadway with Aida, then she went on Color Purple.

(01:15:27):
These things weren't happenstances.

Speaker 4 (01:15:31):
You have the vision, yes, because Herd. The Word is
my jam.

Speaker 3 (01:15:37):
I love that song. I love the word. It's my favorite.

Speaker 4 (01:15:43):
That's my favorite wife. I like say yes, I like
she has this one call.

Speaker 3 (01:15:47):
I love the music Calatine Minutes.

Speaker 2 (01:15:49):
That's another that's a really good on fifteen minutes. But
heard the word does something to me.

Speaker 3 (01:15:55):
I love that song. DeAndre did that. I got to
co write g.

Speaker 2 (01:16:01):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, that was a good one.

Speaker 3 (01:16:05):
Kelly Rowland, Kelly is so proud to see what she's
doing in TV. But Kelly still has this has this
huge following. Kelly kind of then followed the plan one
hundred percent because Kelly earmarked to be the it girl

(01:16:26):
for international, for in Europe Australia. The good thing is
she got off script. But when it comes down to TV,
she's getting a lot of work in London in Australia. Yes,
and that's I had wanted Kelly to be pop and international,

(01:16:52):
but some people got in her ear and convinced her different.
But thankfully it's working to a benefit what she built
because Kelly platinum artists repeatedly in Australia, multi platinum and
the UK and other parts of Europe.

Speaker 2 (01:17:15):
Commander is Kelly's best song to me, David Greta like.

Speaker 4 (01:17:22):
That whole international play you did, mister Knowles Is it
will be studied. But I just want you to know.

Speaker 3 (01:17:29):
Commander is like and David's done an exceptional job. He's
he's been with her. They're great friends. Yeah, I'm very
proud of Kelly. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:17:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:17:40):
We saw you recently rer night with LaToya and Tavia
at the backstage at your daughter's concert. What was that
moment like for you?

Speaker 3 (01:17:50):
You guys have no clue. We had already had dinner
months before the whole thing. So, Jedi mind trick, Well,
you talked well, I study you.

Speaker 4 (01:18:03):
You talked about your your class in Texas Southern.

Speaker 2 (01:18:07):
You taught your artist that Jedi that And it's funny
because I know this, that's your favorite word when it
because of the gotcha you're like, I got y'all, y'all
have been seen this coming, okay to the Jedi mind trick.
So before that moment that we saw you already had
dinner months ago. Yeah okay, And what was all that
like for you?

Speaker 4 (01:18:24):
Miss it?

Speaker 3 (01:18:24):
Know, we're gonna keep that private.

Speaker 4 (01:18:26):
Okay, We'll keep that private for sure when it comes
to your daughter.

Speaker 2 (01:18:31):
Before I get to the prodest moment. I do want
to ask you this because I was an intern at
the View. This is back in two thousand and three, Crazy.

Speaker 4 (01:18:43):
And Love just came out and your daughter was performing
Crazy and Love.

Speaker 3 (01:18:49):
See if I was a white man and did all
I've done, uh huh, all the times that my publicists
was trying to get me on the View, if I
was a white man on the View, whooping, y'all would
have me on there.

Speaker 2 (01:19:06):
Well, that's why we're happy you on Reality for the
King with Carlos King, because this is gonna change lives. Yeah,
all of ours included, because I needed to.

Speaker 4 (01:19:15):
I wanna tell this story. I remember you were in
the green room.

Speaker 2 (01:19:20):
And obviously your daughter's rehearsing, and I remember cause this
is back in the day y'all was a CD and
you had the Dangerously in Love CD, and.

Speaker 4 (01:19:33):
Obviously you heard the song many many, many many times.
But it was something.

Speaker 2 (01:19:37):
About the fact that we were playing in the green
room the song Daddy, and I am not your son,
but you are the godfather of music. To me, mister Knowles,
when you heard that song, I like till this day
it it does something to me when I hear it.

(01:19:57):
The sort of adoration and l that was spoken about you.
When you heard that song for the first time, What
were you surprised by it?

Speaker 4 (01:20:09):
Meaning, did you know she was even working on it
writing it?

Speaker 3 (01:20:11):
No, I did not know, and I probably made one
of the biggest mistakes her father can make. When I
heard it the first time, I was in work mode,
and when I heard it, I gave feedback in work mode,
which was a huge mistake, one that I've apologized to

(01:20:36):
Beyonce for and since then. When I hear that song,
I damn near cry. But when I heard the first
time it was she. I don't think it was she.
She didn't play it. I'm trying to remember who played it.
But I was in work mode and that was a mistake.

(01:21:01):
But now when you hear you just yeah, it's it's
extremely emotional. Yeah. But I'm not gonna bullshit you, man,
I'm I'm What you see is what you get. You
ask a question, I'm gonna tell you the real about it.

Speaker 2 (01:21:14):
What is your problem's moment when you when you look
at your your daughter, Beyonce, now.

Speaker 3 (01:21:19):
That she's just a good person. I've always said that
she's just genuinely a good person. If she never made music,
uh was any industry. She's just a person that has
so much goodness inside of her. Uh that would be
as respectful to the gardener as she would to I

(01:21:41):
don't know the king. Uh, She's just that person.

Speaker 4 (01:21:47):
Let's talk about Solange.

Speaker 3 (01:21:49):
Yeah, I'm I'm very proud that Godslunch just so creative,
so as such an artist and am amazing songwriter. But
you know, I'm proud of Solange for two things. Solange
when she was a kid used to wear like stripes

(01:22:13):
pants and zig zag shirt. And I'll be like, what
the hell you got on, Solange? And she was like,
I'm doing me. Solange in junior high got the students
to do a petition to fire the teacher because she

(01:22:33):
turned in a research project that was talk about a
poet and why you like them? And the poet was
nas And the teacher said, a rapper is not a
poet and Solons is not the one. I get a
phone call the principal of we have a problem with notes.

(01:22:56):
Can you get down here.

Speaker 7 (01:22:58):
It's like seven thirty in the more God and he's
sitting with sistant principal and the teacher like, Solana, just
have petition to get the teacher fire because she said
she did the report right, and I was like, she's
one hundred percent right.

Speaker 3 (01:23:17):
He is a poet. See that's the lunch. And when
I hear that song Cranes in the Sky, Remember I
talked about this period of life. I was going through things.
Just those words you can't dance it away, you can't
shop it away, you can't drink it away, you can't

(01:23:38):
sex it away. That was very meaningful for me in
a period of my life. So that song has so
much meaning for me.

Speaker 2 (01:23:52):
What would you like your legacy to be like in
the history books?

Speaker 3 (01:23:56):
I say this all the time. I I don't want
to write my legacy. I want you and you to
write my legacy. In a way. I think that's when
I hear others that say this is my legacy, that's
their perspective, and I respect that. But for me, I

(01:24:19):
just think there's a degree of arrogance in I want
to write my legacy. I want others to write my
legacy and let that be about my body of work
and my impact, talk about my successes and failures. I'm
good with that because life hasn't been perfect for me,
and I've learned a lot along the way. It's you know,

(01:24:42):
I remember my first book tour and I was going
in this hotel and I had all these boxes and books,
and the billman was pushing the cart and I was like,
young man, when am I getting to my room? Because
the always was long, and then we turn and long

(01:25:03):
and I never forget. He says, Doctor knows. It's not
about the destination, It's about the journey. That's what I
want my legacy to be about. Not my destination, but
my journey.

Speaker 2 (01:25:21):
Can I tell you what I would like it to
be from if your perspective, I think you are the
greatest music manager to ever.

Speaker 4 (01:25:31):
Exists in the business.

Speaker 3 (01:25:32):
Thank you for that.

Speaker 4 (01:25:33):
And I do mean that.

Speaker 2 (01:25:35):
I do mean that because you have talked about your successes,
but you also have mentioned your failures. And I think
it takes a great man, a great person, if you will,
to acknowledge both, because I do believe in order for
you to be great in anything that they they kind
of go hand in hand, because you oftentimes learn more

(01:25:57):
from your failures than your success.

Speaker 4 (01:26:00):
So I would like that to be it.

Speaker 2 (01:26:02):
And the reason why I love this interviews because you know,
I want this to go in the history books for people.

Speaker 4 (01:26:07):
To watch, you know, in classrooms.

Speaker 2 (01:26:10):
You know, I want your grandkids to one day look
at this and really get to know their grandfather in
a much deeper way, you know, to really just have
something tangible to look at and say like, this is
who my grandfather is or.

Speaker 4 (01:26:24):
Your great great great grandchildren.

Speaker 2 (01:26:26):
You know, when I look at the family crest, you know,
I will love for your picture to be as big
as that artwork over there, so that when generations of
the Knowles family, you know, come around and it's two
thousand and fifty and they look at this black man
and they say, well, who's that, Well, that's your you know,

(01:26:49):
your great great great great great grandfather, Matthew Knows spelled
with one team, okay, and he his sacrifice that he made.

Speaker 4 (01:27:01):
Allowed all of us to spread the wealth. So I
would like that to be a legacy.

Speaker 3 (01:27:06):
Well, thank you for that gift and just a mere
fact that I could impact someone, that impact you when
you were fifteen years old. It makes it all the
trials and tribulations and hard work and gratitude. It makes
it worthwhile for me. That really touched me about you

(01:27:28):
to know that at fifteen years old. And it also
tells me when we think people aren't watching, they're watching
good or bad. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:27:40):
My final question, mister Knowles, what happened to the Alicia
Keith at Beyonce music video for for What a Love Song?

Speaker 4 (01:27:51):
Where is it? Mister Knowles?

Speaker 3 (01:27:53):
Which video?

Speaker 4 (01:27:54):
Mister don't tell I'm watch.

Speaker 3 (01:27:57):
What are you talking about?

Speaker 2 (01:27:58):
The music?

Speaker 3 (01:28:00):
What song?

Speaker 4 (01:28:02):
Say you love me? Said you love me?

Speaker 2 (01:28:04):
Put it in a love song, Put it in a
love song, put it in a love song on Alicia
Keys album.

Speaker 4 (01:28:10):
I want to say I shot in Brazil. We saw
a little like glimpse of it.

Speaker 3 (01:28:18):
I get a phone call because I'm not a micromanager
and they're in the projects hood ghetto in real and
Sony hadn't paid the gangsters and they had to be
helicoptered out of there. A whole lot you don't know,

(01:28:42):
young man. Yeah, it's a lot that people don't know.
Thank you, Thank you.

Speaker 4 (01:28:56):
At least listen we got the song.

Speaker 3 (01:28:58):
I don't rather everyone to say, no, that's really what happened.

Speaker 4 (01:29:03):
I didn't.

Speaker 3 (01:29:03):
Well, no, that's what nobody talked about.

Speaker 4 (01:29:10):
Matthews, ladies, and.

Speaker 3 (01:29:21):
No, thank you, thank you.

Speaker 4 (01:29:24):
I make you brown.

Speaker 3 (01:29:25):
You made me very very and.

Speaker 4 (01:29:28):
I hope you know my sincerity.

Speaker 2 (01:29:29):
I mean what I said, I I don't want this
world too. And when I say this, I'm not being
of course like dramatic. I can't have this world not
know your impact. I just I just I think. And
it took me to enter this business and to see
the roadblocks that I've had to endure.

Speaker 4 (01:29:50):
And I was like, when people say that means because my.

Speaker 2 (01:29:56):
Language, and I'm like, oh, I'm get it.

Speaker 4 (01:30:00):
No, because he was like, you're not gonna play with me.
You're gonna play with me and I or mine and
I have to I have to do that and make
sure that they're protected.

Speaker 2 (01:30:11):
But I'll be the bad guy in this situation and
they will always be seen as the angels.

Speaker 4 (01:30:16):
But I'm gonna be that.

Speaker 2 (01:30:17):
It took me to enter this business for me to
be like, now, I get it, I get it.

Speaker 4 (01:30:23):
I get it because being nice don't work, no, not
at all.

Speaker 3 (01:30:27):
And you've got to have in this business your own
creative direction. I mean, there's been many things. When Beyonce
turned in her first.

Speaker 6 (01:30:37):
Album Crazy and Love, Baby Boy, Me Myself and I
Angelsy and Love, it was another hit on there, uh,
naughty Girl, Naughty Girl, and then that video.

Speaker 4 (01:30:51):
Which one you said baby boy?

Speaker 2 (01:30:53):
Already it was crazy love, baby Boy, naughty girl, me
myself and I.

Speaker 4 (01:31:00):
Things of Love, freakom dress. But that was day. No,
it was one more that's baby, That's that's b day.

Speaker 3 (01:31:10):
It was no one that you showed me that.

Speaker 4 (01:31:12):
Hip hop wasn't hip hop star?

Speaker 3 (01:31:14):
What was the one that you showed me that you
said that he was going to show me let's be there.
Well let's said those five. Yeah, Well, when you turn
those into Columbia Records, they rejected the album. We had
to have a meeting with attorneys and all kinds of stuff.
They rejected the album. They said there was not one

(01:31:37):
hit on the album. They were sort of right. It
was five.

Speaker 4 (01:31:49):
I love it. I love it so much.

Speaker 3 (01:31:51):
But you have to have your own direction. I mean
they didn't know these white boys, you know, and then
you have so many yes people. As you learned in
the entertainment industry. They sit in meetings and they look
to see what the lead person and they go, oh
that's great. They we don't like nobody has their own opinion,

(01:32:12):
you know. It's like, so we always had our own strategy.
I mirrored Columbia Records. That's I had the record. That's
how I came with the out of management to records
because we had every department they had we had and
we kind of shared responsibility. But anybody and everybody will
tell you at those meetings at Columbia Records, I was

(01:32:35):
at the head of the table.

Speaker 2 (01:32:38):
Listen, you are the best in if y'all done, because
I've never had anyone guide me.

Speaker 4 (01:32:46):
I did. I never hear a bigger journal mast.

Speaker 2 (01:32:53):
I never had the subject tell me this is the
direction we're going.

Speaker 3 (01:32:59):
Without without how to say it, I said, let's rewind.

Speaker 1 (01:33:09):
Reality with the King is executive produced by me Carlos King,
produced by Lizzie Nimitz, and a partnership with the Lack
of Effect Network. You can also find us on my YouTube
channel at the Carlos King Underscore