September 4, 2025 • 40 mins
Eboni K. Williams is in the house, and she’s taking the Reigndrops straight to law school - "Okurrr!" She and Carlos are breaking down the buzzworthy Cardi B case that’s had everyone talking. Now that it’s officially closed, what does it all mean? Cardi B is Cardi free, and the full breakdown is right here on Reality With The King. Tune in!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Reality with the King is hosted by me, Carlos King.
I'm an executive producer who have produced some of your
favorite shows from the Real Housewives in Atlanta, New Jersey
and my own creation, The Love and Marriage Franchise and
Bell Collective. Every episode we recap reality television from the
Real Housewives Franchise to The Bachelor or Selling Sunset, in
(00:27):
addition to celebrity guests, whether in the unscripted space or
scripted as well. Hey, rain drops on today's episode Reality
with the King, I am back with Ebie k Williams,
the legal ego, easy Expert, all the things.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
She has been such a source of information for us.
And listen, this trial we are going to talk about,
in addition to the verdict that was reached is a
pop culture sensation because because it involved a hip hop
sensation and a pop star and all the things by
the name of Carti B and Ebony is gonna break
(01:09):
down the case with us because this has been like
eight years in the making or seven years maybe.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Yeah it was this so happened in two thy twenty
I think or twenty nineteen and then yeah, fou and
now we finally five six years later, we finally have
a judgment.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
Which is insane.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
So I did not know Carti even had to go
to trial for something like this. So Ebany, can you
explain to us exactly what happened, because one thing I
would like to say is this Carti b was on
trial for an incident that occurred in twenty eighteen. She
(01:54):
was accused of assaulting a security guard. And this case,
like we said, finally happened seven years later.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
Abony, what are the details, honey?
Speaker 5 (02:07):
So so much to go into.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
So I want to start with the framing of what
this trial was and what it wasn't. Carlos, So let's
be clear, right drops, this was not a criminal trial.
There was nothing criminal at stake, Okay. So this was
the police officers weren't involved, none of that. This is
what we call a civil matter, okay. So this goes
(02:28):
back to all my legal legals law students, pera legals
legal assistant. This is a torts claim, okay, which is
a class we take. Don't you just love going to
law school with abide k Williams.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
You don't obsessed with you?
Speaker 5 (02:42):
This is just a time for back to school, Carlos.
Speaker 4 (02:46):
Look about outfit.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
I let's say you got your little back to school
polo on. Yeah, we're not gonna do the same. So yes,
So this is a tort, which we learned about our
very first year of law school. Torts can also be crimes,
So this.
Speaker 5 (03:02):
Is where it could be confusing.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Right, So when you normally hear assault and battery, we
normally think of the criminal justice system, right, we think
about somebody getting arrested and potentially going to jail or
probation for committing an assault or battery, a harmful touching
of another. Right, But then there's a torte version of
all of those same things, Carlos. So we know in
this case, Cartie was on trial for allegations that she
(03:26):
committed tortes, which are civil wrongs. That's what a tort is,
a civil wrong. They can include and did in this
case include assault, battery, emotional infliction of emotional intentional infliction
rather of emotional distress, also negligence and all kinds of things.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
And so the judge or.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Jury in this matter, in this case it was a
jury gets to decide there's not a guilt or innocence.
Speaker 5 (03:55):
That's something else I want to clear up.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
So she was never going to be found guilty, and
she was never going to be found not guilty because
that doesn't apply to civil cases.
Speaker 5 (04:04):
You're either found liable or not liable.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
This is important difference, Carlos, because it's a different burden
of proof when we're talking about criminal matters where somebody
must be found guilty.
Speaker 5 (04:16):
I know you know this. The standard of proof is
what beyond a reasonable doubt.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
So that means it needs to be proven at a
very high likelihood, more reasonable than not that you absolutely,
in fact not more reasonable than that. Excuse me, I
mispoke ray drops beyond a reasonable doubt. So you have
to be so thought to be guilty by the evidence,
by the testimony by the forensics, that no reasonable doubt
can exist to your guilt.
Speaker 5 (04:42):
Period.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
That's the bar, and it's that high, Carlos, because people's
lives are on the line, jail execution in some states.
That's a high bar. Totally different standard of proof in
a civil matter. You only have to be believed to
be responsible for the things you're accused of. We call
it fifty one percent more reasonable than not, more probable
(05:05):
than not that you did it. So that's why a
lot of times rain drops you'll see people bring a
civil case instead of a criminal case, right because they
could be argued, madam security guard, if you were so
injured and so distressed and so traumatized by this so
called scar and finger nail cut or what have you,
(05:25):
why not call the cops, Why not have Cardio arrested?
Why not, you know, pursue it in a criminal court?
That's what oftentimes people say.
Speaker 5 (05:33):
Right.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Oftentimes, Carlos is not pursued criminally because there's not enough evidence.
There's not enough to reach that high burden of proof
of beyond a reasonable doubt. So you bring that burden
of proof down to more probable than not, and we
find ourselves in civil court.
Speaker 5 (05:49):
Does that make sense?
Speaker 4 (05:51):
No, it makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Wow, Because the thing that was so confusing to me,
which is why I'm glad you cleared it up, is
although the former security guard alleged that Cardi b spat
on her, scratched her nose with a fingernail doing a
verbal altercation, this wasn't a criminal.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
Trial.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
So your breakdown is great because we're now able to
really understand exactly why this case was even happening. So
the woman, the former security guard, she decided like you said,
to sue Cardi b for this alleged altercation not criminal
(06:37):
but civil.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
She sued her for twenty four.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Million, Okay, she sued her for twenty four million dollars
for again rain drops, for allegedly saying for Carti allegedly
spitting on her her nose with a fingernail.
Speaker 4 (07:02):
Talk to us about this, and why would any lawyer.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Agree to take on the case a of this magnitude
or lack thereof magnitude.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
But also to say, twenty four million dollars seems like
the right number for this.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
It's laughable, right, So I have to say for me,
and this is my actual legal opinion here, Carlos, not
my personal opinion. I think this case was over before
it started because of that number. Knowing no other facts, right,
knowing no other facts, whether there's going to be somebody
to testify to them seeing Cardi do this or not
do this, knowing no other facts, the minute you have
(07:44):
the audacity and really the willful kind of bad intention
as an attorney to bow this on behalf of your
client in civil court. And the most egregious harm you
can sign eight is the being spit upon and a
three inch fingernail laceration. And you talking about twenty four million.
(08:11):
You've undermined your own credibility just in the filing of
the complaint.
Speaker 5 (08:15):
See what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Now, let me tell you how it could have gone different.
I'm not saying Cardi would have been found liable or
that she should have been I'm just saying how it
could have played out with more of an opportunity for
the plaintiff here, the security guard, to have a better
outcome that she was seeking. You, and I believe this
is true in the state of Georgia. In most states,
when you follow a lawsuit like this, Carlos, you do
(08:37):
need to put some number on the table. They normally
require you to put some number. You can't just say
whatever the jury thinks, but you can do it in
a less much less aggressive way. You can say, and
the plaintiff seeks in excess of ten thousand dollars of damages,
and that can be up to millions, but we're putting
(08:57):
in a minimum threshold of ten thousand dollars, a minimum
threshold of one thousand dollars.
Speaker 5 (09:02):
You see what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
And because that threshold, DIC takes what type of court
you might be in So I think had this case
been filed, this lawsuit been filed at the onset, Carlos saying,
same complaint, same facts, same allegations, and the relief we
seek your honor is in excess of ten thousand dollars.
(09:24):
Let us have our day in court now. I'm willing
to hear you out, and I'm willing to believe that
there could be some truthfulness to what you're going to
put before this court. But when you come in this
court talking about a spat upon in a three inch
nail laceration each of about twenty four million dollars, it
reads like you're operating in bad faith from day one.
(09:44):
Reads it's giving scam, it's giving extortion, it's giving payday,
and it's giving bad faith again and that's a legal term.
It's giving that you, the client, you and your client
it are operating in bad faith. And I'm already looking
at all the facts and evidence that you're putting before
(10:06):
me from that lens, that that landing.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Yeah, oh baby, it's a jet blue holiday.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
Right right right? What if the kids saying Jetsu holiday.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
This is reality with the king, and I'm Carlos King
let's get back into the show. It makes so much sense.
So what Ebany is saying is or her legal opinion.
The fact that due to an alleged three inch laceration
from Carti's nails, that allegedly happened, and to say that
(10:43):
it was worked twenty four million is interesting too, because
what the security guard said under oath is that this
incident traumatized her and that it required a cosmetic procedure
because of the scarring from the alleged assault. She also
(11:05):
said that she lost her job over the incident as well.
What's so fascinating about that is, let's just say, for
the sake of an argument, right, let's say this did happen.
Let's say that someone of Carniv's stature, who is worth
(11:27):
millions and millions and millions of dollars, did actually make
contact with anybody, did actually spit on somebody, did actually you.
Speaker 4 (11:37):
Know, scratch her scratch her face with the nail. Based
on your.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Legal expertise, if this really did happen, it's twenty four
million dollars still an amount that should be awarded to
somebody dealing with that.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
Plus a cosmetic procedure. So here's the.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
Good news, Carlo. We don't even have to speculate about it.
The answer is, of course, that's totally irrational, and we
have a mechanism in the law that allows for us
to determine what is rational. I love this, I love
doing this with you. It is just so nostalgic for
me to go back into my early tutelage as a
(12:20):
young legal scholar and realize when I learned these things
for the first time. Seriously so again. First year in
law school we get told about the concept of a
quantum assessment of damages. Okay, there's all yes, there are books.
There are now I'm talking about That's how dated myself
talking about books electronic documented oh child, But yes, now
(12:51):
there are electronic documents and access points and all kinds
of things where you can look this up and say hey.
And there are all kinds of things that we take
into consideration, Carlos King. We put on the table and
we come up with a reasonable figure. They include the
following the actual medical bills. So like you say, let's
say this actually happened. Let's say you're which means you're
(13:12):
gonna have a literal receipt, ma'am of what the cosmetic surgeon,
cost of what your primary care visits, cost of what
your medications cost.
Speaker 5 (13:22):
You see, I'm saying all of that.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
We're gonna add all your bandages and dressings, your nearest
foreign ship.
Speaker 5 (13:27):
I don't add it all up. Put it all on.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
The table, Carlos. Now this is the nickel and dime
lawyer in me, coming out girl play. You've got a
band a bitch, Put it on the table. Skin flash
color that's more expensive.
Speaker 5 (13:42):
Put it on the town. Okay, So that's after.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
So were not half a bad day a beauty uh coloration,
makeup child?
Speaker 4 (13:56):
Go ahead, boom.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
So that's one column of expense, right, actual medical expenses. Now,
let's say you did lose your job behind this, Okay, ma'am, respectfully,
let's go on the high end. You're doing private security
for an upscale building of this magnitude. Let's just say
she made two to twenty five a year. Let's just
say that. Okay, so we're gonna put that on the tail.
(14:19):
Then let's say you're traumatized. Let's say you gotta see
your therapist for more frequent basis. We're gonna run that
up at best at best at best, at best three
hundred and fifty thousand dollars four hundred thousand dollars at best.
So now that you're talking about anything over a half
(14:42):
a million. And that's, by the way, just so you know,
when we come up with these numbers, Carlos, we add
everything we can conceive of you. That's why I'm being funny,
but I'm being kind of This is really how it goes.
You stretch the limits of possibility to bring all future
medical Let's say the scar gets infected and you got
to cut the thing back.
Speaker 5 (15:00):
So you put all that.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Yeah, this is how we do. This is what we
do in the war room, Carlos. Those of us lawyers
go back to Scandal. You know how they had the
war room with the gladiators. Same thing, every case, every
case we handled this way. A good lawyer, you conceive
of the biggest number you could conceive of, and then
you multiply it by three. Why three for the damages themselves,
(15:25):
the attorney, the third I'm gonna take as the lawyer,
and then the third for the taxes. Because you're still
gonna get taxed on any settlement that you get or
any damages that you received, you get your taxes taxable
income not not out of ten times. Oh yes, yeah,
great jumps learning today, baby, okay.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
So yeah so so. But but but to stop you there,
because I'm just so fascinated by this. The lawyer, whatever
the judgment is, for the amount at the end of
the day, just so we you know, for future references,
the attorney, okay, does the law firm get a third
or the attorney him or herself get the third of
(16:06):
the thorough.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Which could just be if I'm so over, if it's
the law offices of ebid K Williams, ebidy K Williams
gets that third. If it's Carlos King and Associates and
you've got associates, the firm gets the third and then
you pay, because that's how the legal partnership works. But
the point is, one third of whatever the plane of
gets goes to legal fees, period, because that's and that's
(16:29):
the nature of a standard contingency agreement. One third goes
to lawyers, one third goes to Uncle Sam, and the
client gets what's left. And you want to make sure
that number is high enough, Carlos to where there can
be some real compensation. That's that's how we're thinking of
this so again, I just put everything from the nearest
foreign to the surgery, to the lost wages, to the
(16:50):
therapy bills. I put it all on the table, and
I couldn't get to more than three four hundred thousand.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
Yeah, and then it's times the three.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
And again, at best, you're you're asking four million bucks,
maybe maybe a million point two five at best. So
when you start talking about twenty four million dollars for
even the most astronomical expansion of damages, you're operating in
bad faith from a from a legal.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Perspective, one of the things that I do want to
talk to you about was the swort of behavior from
the prosecution. The lawyer who cross examined Cardi B on
the stand. A lot of people felt that his behavior
as a lawyer was very negative. Some was the unprofessional allegedly,
(17:41):
some people have said it was inappropriate. He asked her
a series of questions about, you know, whether or not
the woman in question who allegedly got assaulted, about her
how big she was. He asked Party B about her raise.
He asked Cardi B. What and now she's wearing a
wig today? Her hair was sure yesterday. It seemed like
(18:06):
this was a Saturday Night Live parody on Scandal, right,
it didn't seem believable. And Cardi b who's a personality,
gave the audience and the lawyer what he wanted, which
was memes, reactions and everything else. What is your take
on the behavior of this lawyer did Is this somebody
(18:29):
that you think knew that.
Speaker 4 (18:33):
He had a tough case to present?
Speaker 5 (18:36):
So a few things.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Number One, Carti is a pro and I'm talking to
the king of reality TV. At least any of us
forget before she was a Grammy Award winning artist. She
was a reality TV star, which means she was a
brilliant one at that, which means she is a what
expert storyteller?
Speaker 4 (18:55):
Right?
Speaker 5 (18:57):
And so much of what we do in the courtroom, Carlos.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
So much of who wins and loses in the court
of law, it's about who tells a better story. I'm
not saying it should be that way. I'm saying that
is what it is. And so I think that this
was an attorney who failed to do his due diligence,
and I mean that both in the legal and cultural sense,
didn't know who he was dealing with. From a Carti
(19:25):
is as media trained as media savvy, and all of
this is this.
Speaker 5 (19:30):
Is just what the court of law is.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
In many ways, Carlos King is just an amplification or
even a condensation rather of public opinion of the court
of public opinion. So you just scale that down on
an intimate level and you've got an actual court of law.
Carti is not going to be any less effective on
that stage. Pun intended that she's going to be as
(19:54):
effective when the cameras are up for love and hip
hop than when the cameras are off for the grand
same thing, same skill set. This case, this trial called
on the same skill set that Cardi B has been
perfecting from her YouTube days.
Speaker 5 (20:09):
So we're talking about twenty years, see what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
So that's what I do.
Speaker 5 (20:13):
I think this.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Attorney was entirely out of his league, failed to properly
educate himself on the savvy and the skill set and
the brilliance of what this witness, this defense witness, was
going to bring to this cross and ended up doing
themselves tremendous disfavor. Like you said, only made themselves as
(20:36):
the attorney look unprepared, inadequate, caught off guard, and kind
of having to stand in your own shit. You made
a shit sound week that you intended to deliver to
the defendant, Cardi B and your ass had to eat it.
That's what happened in this trial, from my opinion, and
one of the first things we learned in law school
(20:56):
calls king when your whether you're on direct exam you're
asking the questions first, or you're on cross exam, as
we saw with Kurty and this lawyer, never ever, never, ever, ever,
ever ever in your life ask a question you don't
already know the answer to.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
Never. Yes, I even knew that watching Gather Law in
Order LA Law. Like, sorry, I'm screaming, but yeah, it's.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
True because it's triggering what you know, what what what
is culturally ingrained in us to know about how these
trial lawyer roles go. And so you forgot the first
The first thing must be first, Carlos, and you forgot
the first thing never, and that's why you wound up
surprising yourself. So no, I think Cardi gets all the
(21:44):
credit here. She was absolutely brilliant on that witness fan, the.
Speaker 5 (21:50):
All of it. It was all brilliant.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
And I also just kind of want to say substantively,
she really came from a strong argument point Cardi. I'm
saying because I and any woman on that jury, mostly
especially any that have carried and delivered a baby know
(22:15):
just how vulnerable and delicate that moment is.
Speaker 5 (22:20):
Less you, uh baby libity.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
They know how delicate and vulnerable that moment is, Carlos,
when you are pregnant with your first child, especially your
first child, any child, but your first child, as Cardi
was in twenty eighteen, your huge celebrity, your global phenomenon.
So you do what you're supposed to do, which is
exercise all of your assets of protection and privacy. The
(22:45):
medical facility cooperates with you, shuts the whole place down,
so you could have that privacy and respect the tenderness
of your early trimesters of pregnancy, which we all know, Carlos,
kN and tell that baby is at least I want
to say, it's twenty seven weeks twenty maybe it's twenty
two weeks, but closer to twenty seven weeks.
Speaker 5 (23:07):
What we call having viability of life outside of the uterus.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
I can't explain to you how delicate that moment deals
as somebody who's carrying their child, because I remember it
like it was yesterday, and I am, as the great
nan Leak says, known, not necessarily famous, but I am known.
Speaker 5 (23:29):
Thank you, Nimi. So as a.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
Numb I got tip of this.
Speaker 5 (23:36):
Oh my God, shout out to miss Leaks. I appreciate
being known for some people. I'm serious, child, So.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
Anyway, as somebody known, Carlos, stay with me. Now what
I was in my early stages of pregnancy. I certainly
wasn't going to have the hospital or the facility shut
down for me, but I, you know, have a little
baseball cap on, trying to keep it low key because
you know, twelve thirteen weeks pregnant, keep it cute wanted.
Of course, you know, my pregnancy wasn't known until I
(24:08):
was about to pop, and that was by designed You
and I discussed it. You were one of the first
people to know I was with child.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
Ch'a.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
I took my little black ass in that in my
OB's office, trying to be incog negro.
Speaker 5 (24:22):
Here comes somebody y you own the breakfast.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
Club, and then they walked away and then turned around
and said congratulations.
Speaker 5 (24:32):
Now it was sweet. But when I tell you, my heart.
Speaker 4 (24:36):
Saint, my heart saint just now and I'm not pregnant.
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Yeah, because now people can know. Now the information is
not contained. Now anybody could do anything with it, and
even if nobody even means you any ill will like
the security guard said, oh I just got excited and
I did it. Ain't nobody ask you all that. What
you need to know is that it still a violation.
(25:02):
It's still a violation, and it's a violation such that
it becomes totally understandable and reasonable that Cardi would have
a reaction to that that would be hostile. So before
we get to the did she lay her hands on
the woman or not? Did she actually spit and make
physical contact with the women or not? The premise is
(25:22):
set up, Carlos, so that Carti in this circumstance is
extraordinarily sympathetic.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Yeah, yeah, no, And listen, everything you're saying makes a
lot of sense.
Speaker 4 (25:35):
It was a four day trial.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
The jury deliberate, Sorry, the jury deliberated for less than
one hour.
Speaker 5 (25:42):
Okay, just know exactly what type of time they were.
Speaker 4 (25:45):
On that was.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
That was obvious what the outcome is going to be.
But Ebony a question for you. While the deliberation was happening,
Cardi b went outside and she was confronted by a
paparazzo who asked her, Look, you're pregnant.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
Is the baby, offset is the step fan? What's going on?
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Cardi B took a marker that was from somebody and
threw it at this paparazzo and said, respect women pretty much,
you know, gave him, you know, some some tongue lashing,
and went about her business. A lot of people are like,
Carti B. You are on trial ful assault, Why would
you do this? Talk to me about that? Because the
(26:31):
prosecutor tried to tell the judge what happened outside, and
the judge wasn't here for it.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
But it did raise the question ebidy K Williams, and
I did want to.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Ask you if you were Carti's client and you saw
her do that, would that make you nervous in the moment?
Speaker 5 (26:48):
So a few things.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
If I were Carti's attorney, I would advise my beloved client,
miss Cardi B, to not throw things, and let's keep
our hands to ourselves, and let's not even to the
point you're alluding to. Carlos gives the impression that we
even have violent tendencies, but people are human, and Carti
(27:13):
gets the benefit of being so well known to where
people generally can put in context her reactiveness. So if
you or I Carlos were somewhere and we throw a
pin at somebody, I think that would raise eyebrows because
people don't know us necessarily to be hyper reactive. They
(27:36):
don't have a context for us in that way. So
that would be like, wow, if you were bold enough
to throw a pin into a crowd of folks with
the cameras running, what are you like behind closed doors?
Speaker 5 (27:47):
Carti gets the benefit of.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
Us having a pretty damn good idea as to what
she might be like in a more closed door setting.
She is impulsive, she is reactive, So do you see
I'm saying it's a nuanced point, but I think it's
an important one that she actually gets. I would be
less concerned if Carti be as my client did that,
then I would be concerned if you were I did that.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
I do want to ask you this.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
So Carti, the after she was found not liable for
this particular situation, she did go back outside and spoke
about what happened. One of the things she said that
I do want to talk to you about because although
you're not famous, you are known, we love you. Epany
(28:33):
has the best. I really listen, I'm gonna sidetrack a
little bit. I really hope that you guys have y'all
told me personally. But I love the fact that y'all
get to see my friend Ebony her glory because she has.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
A sense of humor.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
She I know, y'all, I know some of y'all thinks
she's so serious whatever, Epany is a foot That I
get to show my friend in this light means the
world to me because she is buddy af to be.
Speaker 4 (29:01):
But okay, Carti B.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
After she was filed not libel, she thanks her supporters.
She called the lawsuit frivolous, but she also said this,
and you are a public figure, and I want to
get your thoughts on this.
Speaker 4 (29:15):
You are famous and you are a lawyer.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Cardi B emphasized that she would not settle with anybody
because she's a celebrity, and she warned people against filing
frivolous lawsuits against them, noting that she works hard for
her money and that she will countersuit if this happens again.
Speaker 4 (29:39):
What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Because some celebrities do feel like because I'm famous for
all of the purposes. I have some money that people
are going to file frivolous lawsuits that has no bearings,
no truth in it, just because they want a payday.
(30:01):
Do you think couch assuming will scare these people away? Yes?
Speaker 5 (30:06):
And also, first of all, I love that Cartis said this.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
I love that she said this, and I love that
she said this in this moment immediately following this verdict
that was so favorable to her. And let's be clear,
Carti's has some momentum behind fuck around and find out
with Cardi b baby when it comes to this court
thing better as Tasha Kay very seriously, and she is
doing what most celebrities in her position Carlos King will
(30:32):
not do, which is make the time. Carti said, period, Die,
I'm going to make the time to play exactly the
games y'all want to play, meaning I'm going to come
to court, I'm going to put on my wig, my outfit,
I'm gonna raise my hand on the Bible, I'm gonna testify.
I'm going to do the thing that y'all are counting
(30:53):
on me not doing, which is half legal. Follow through
same thing with Tasha Ka all this, most people would
have got that verdict, multi million dollar verdict around Tasha
k owing her and went on with their not went
on with their business. Now, Cardi Carti's where's where's the
updated hearing so we can find out her current financial status?
And she's on it like clockwork every six months because
(31:16):
she actually it is to collect. Oh that's okay, Oh
hold on one, saying Carlos.
Speaker 5 (31:25):
Last you get this?
Speaker 4 (31:27):
Okay, No, it takes time.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
Not should have broke the good dip teeth baby god damn,
like mama got that much grigy. So yes, I love
that Curti did this, Carlos, because this sends a message
that Carti is not the one to be played with.
Speaker 5 (31:49):
And she said it flat out.
Speaker 4 (31:50):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
We saw similar messaging from jay Z with Busby, you know,
but he said, not only am I not going to settle,
I'm actually going to come for you and your ability
to practice law in these cases. So I think whether
it's a counter suit, whether it is challenging the other
sides lawyers around their credibility to practice, I think that
(32:13):
type of punitive counteraction is very important because it sends
a message, Carlos that they are not sitting ducks to
just wait and be targeted for payouts, you know, and
I think it's very important and I respect it, you know,
like Carti said, And whether she works so hard for
(32:33):
it or not, it's her money period. It's her money period.
People are not entitled to in contrary to popular belief,
and it is long as enough celebrities Carlos are willing
to not make the time to go to court, not
make the time to file the counterclaim, not make the
time to put on their clothes and go down to
(32:53):
the courthouse and testify in their own defense on their
own behalf, and they feel that it is easier and
quicher to just write the check, which is their prerogative.
Speaker 4 (33:04):
But you will.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
Continue to see a cycle of civilians that see that
as a right opportunity for a quick payday, and some
will succeed. From what Cardi B said clearly and loudly
today is that she will not be the ATM. So
you're gonna have to get somebody else to do it,
because Cardi B is not in the business of doing quick, fast,
(33:25):
easy paydays.
Speaker 5 (33:26):
And I respect her greatly for it.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Last question for you, Ebanie, what advice do you give
public figures, celebrities or a person who has means when
they are confronted with a situation where they feel like
they may have to defend themselves but also do not
want to be in a situation where they can get sued.
And what some people again are calling a frivolous case.
(33:50):
What avice do you get people? Should they ignore and
move on? Should they have bodyguards with them? What do
you think?
Speaker 5 (33:56):
This is a tough call.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
It's a personal call, right, you know, if you can
afford the guard situation, I think that takes care of
a lot of it. Had Cardi had her own kind
of security with her, had Cardi had her own personal
security with her that day, I'm certain that person would
have been able to fend off this security of woman
(34:18):
and her claims and maybe wouldn't have gotten to this.
But two things to that point, though he agrees with you, yes,
something to say, don't she goodness, She's like, maybe I
want to be a security guard.
Speaker 5 (34:30):
I don't know, Chia, wait wait on it.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
But but here's where I'm careful about. Here's where I'm
careful Carlos about advocating for that as the answer A
that's an extraordinarily that is an extraordinarily expensive endeavor to
constantly have security. So a that is an extraordinarily expensive
(34:55):
endeavor to constantly have paid security with you twenty four
to seven around the I don't care who you are.
And secondly, I think that's that's a precedent that if
you're if you're wealthy and or famous, that you somehow
must bear the constant burden of never being able to
have any type of expectation of privacy. And I simply
don't believe that. I simply don't believe that, Carlos. I
(35:19):
get that that people are going to be interested in
your life. That is part of the price that any
of us pay that do our lives in a public fashion.
But I don't believe that the price has to be
so exorbitantly high simply because one has a talent or
a gift or something to offer to the public that
now you must sacrifice any sense of autonomy and ability
to be an individual with privacy and protection. So and again, again,
(35:43):
it's personal and it's different in every case. I could
see where somebody like Beyonce it makes more sense for
her to.
Speaker 5 (35:49):
Have a Julius at all times.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
But I could see, you know, I live in New
York City, you know, you've lived here, You live in Atlanta,
you live in la you live in Miami. You know
you we see all the and I'm not talking about
just known figures. I'm talking about a listers on the train,
walking down the street, walking to Whole Foods, traded, Joe's
getting a smoothie, and they get to do that. So
(36:13):
my advice would be, figure out how important it is
to maintain some level of autonomy and privacy and consistently
that's a key word. Consistently. Move according to that, move
according to that. When it comes to engaging directly with people,
whether it's paparazzi or just nosy people in public, I
(36:34):
think you got to really kind of figure out how
far you're willing to go around that. I personally don't
advise a lot of direct contact and engagement. It's one
of the things I love about New York. People tend
to mind their business, you know. But if somebody decides
they don't want to mind their business, then you know,
you kind of have to move accordingly. And I'm not
afraid of, you know, availing to law enforcement in those
(36:54):
kind of situations. And listen, I don't take that likely,
you know, it's black people in America.
Speaker 5 (37:03):
You know, we know this. Sometimes when we invite law enforcement,
that can be its own problem.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
Right, Seriously, we got to talk about this family, but
ultimately I'm going to defer that out rather than me
sitting up here trying to go toe to toe hand
to hand contact with an individual off the street.
Speaker 4 (37:21):
Yeah, but that's a big choice.
Speaker 5 (37:23):
And everybody gets to do that how they want to
do it.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
Yeah, And that's what I got from it is what
you said. At the end of the day, do what
works for you. But everybody deserves their privacy. Yes, your
public figure, you deserve your privacy and you deserve your
personal space.
Speaker 4 (37:38):
So I understand that. I get that. Ethnick Kay Williams.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
I thank you so much for hopping on this again
your council baby Liberty.
Speaker 5 (37:46):
Yes, this little girl is doing too much.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
One more thing I did want to also say before
we wrap, Carlos that I love please. That I thought
was very much a class act and an important step
for her to take because of her responsibility as a megastar.
She also asked people to do this, lady, no harm.
She said, do this lady, Yes, I thought. You know
what's so funny I'm blake brought that up. That was
(38:10):
a takeaway for me too, like leave her alone, don't
do don't do her no harm.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Justice hasn't served. Let's all go out and just mind
our business.
Speaker 4 (38:21):
I could not agree more. I thought that was stellar.
Speaker 5 (38:23):
I that was chef's kiss.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
Not that I wasn't already a Cardif fan, but I
walk away from this whole trial even more so because
of the person that she showed herself to be throughout
this entire thing. Charming, engaging, funny, but when at the
end of it all stood on business, absolutely stood on business,
but still with compassion and empathy that this is a
human being. Even if she was out here trying to
(38:49):
get a quick payday. She played herself, she didn't play me.
And so now we're gonna move on and we're not
gonna harass her. We're not gonna harass her family, or
her children or her parents. Were to let this lady
continue to live. Don't play with Cardi though, but let
her live, and anybody else with any bright ideas about
coming to play with me up around and find out
(39:09):
it was it was perfect.
Speaker 4 (39:10):
Could not agree.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
Mark I, that's honestly my favorite part of the speech
because it shows the level of integrity that she had
to make sure that this woman also was not going
to be you know, accosted, yes, and in salted as well,
So no kudos to that.
Speaker 4 (39:28):
Kudos to you, Ebony, Kudos to you, Baby Liberty.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
And the best part about is that the that the
range jobs love Ebony before I let you go. They
love when they get a chance to see you be
a working mom because it's so relatable to the world
and my audience. So we love when Baby Liberty makes her.
Speaker 4 (39:49):
Yes, we love it.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
We love it so know that is actually it makes
it makes the women who are the listeners, like Ebony
is one of us.
Speaker 4 (39:58):
So kudos to you.
Speaker 5 (40:00):
I love you, Carlos. I love the rain drops.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
I love that we get these opportunities to have these
conversations rooted in law and pop culture.
Speaker 5 (40:08):
And also our friendship.
Speaker 4 (40:09):
So you're the best.
Speaker 5 (40:10):
My love till next time.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
Till next time, baby, love you, love you, Bye bye bye.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
Reality with the King is executive produced by me Carlos King,
produced by Lizzie Nimitz, and a partnership.
Speaker 4 (40:26):
With the Lack Effect Network.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
You can also find us on my YouTube channel at
the Carlos King Underscore,
Reality with the King is hosted by me, Carlos King.
I'm an executive producer who have produced some of your
favorite shows from the Real Housewives in Atlanta, New Jersey
and my own creation, The Love and Marriage Franchise and
Bell Collective. Every episode we recap reality television from the
Real Housewives Franchise to The Bachelor or Selling Sunset, in
(00:27):
addition to celebrity guests, whether in the unscripted space or
scripted as well. Hey, rain drops on today's episode Reality
with the King, I am back with Ebie k Williams,
the legal ego, easy Expert, all the things.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
She has been such a source of information for us.
And listen, this trial we are going to talk about,
in addition to the verdict that was reached is a
pop culture sensation because because it involved a hip hop
sensation and a pop star and all the things by
the name of Carti B and Ebony is gonna break
(01:09):
down the case with us because this has been like
eight years in the making or seven years maybe.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Yeah it was this so happened in two thy twenty
I think or twenty nineteen and then yeah, fou and
now we finally five six years later, we finally have
a judgment.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
Which is insane.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
So I did not know Carti even had to go
to trial for something like this. So Ebany, can you
explain to us exactly what happened, because one thing I
would like to say is this Carti b was on
trial for an incident that occurred in twenty eighteen. She
(01:54):
was accused of assaulting a security guard. And this case,
like we said, finally happened seven years later.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
Abony, what are the details, honey?
Speaker 5 (02:07):
So so much to go into.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
So I want to start with the framing of what
this trial was and what it wasn't. Carlos, So let's
be clear, right drops, this was not a criminal trial.
There was nothing criminal at stake, Okay. So this was
the police officers weren't involved, none of that. This is
what we call a civil matter, okay. So this goes
(02:28):
back to all my legal legals law students, pera legals
legal assistant. This is a torts claim, okay, which is
a class we take. Don't you just love going to
law school with abide k Williams.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
You don't obsessed with you?
Speaker 5 (02:42):
This is just a time for back to school, Carlos.
Speaker 4 (02:46):
Look about outfit.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
I let's say you got your little back to school
polo on. Yeah, we're not gonna do the same. So yes,
So this is a tort, which we learned about our
very first year of law school. Torts can also be crimes,
So this.
Speaker 5 (03:02):
Is where it could be confusing.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Right, So when you normally hear assault and battery, we
normally think of the criminal justice system, right, we think
about somebody getting arrested and potentially going to jail or
probation for committing an assault or battery, a harmful touching
of another. Right, But then there's a torte version of
all of those same things, Carlos. So we know in
this case, Cartie was on trial for allegations that she
(03:26):
committed tortes, which are civil wrongs. That's what a tort is,
a civil wrong. They can include and did in this
case include assault, battery, emotional infliction of emotional intentional infliction
rather of emotional distress, also negligence and all kinds of things.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
And so the judge or.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Jury in this matter, in this case it was a
jury gets to decide there's not a guilt or innocence.
Speaker 5 (03:55):
That's something else I want to clear up.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
So she was never going to be found guilty, and
she was never going to be found not guilty because
that doesn't apply to civil cases.
Speaker 5 (04:04):
You're either found liable or not liable.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
This is important difference, Carlos, because it's a different burden
of proof when we're talking about criminal matters where somebody
must be found guilty.
Speaker 5 (04:16):
I know you know this. The standard of proof is
what beyond a reasonable doubt.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
So that means it needs to be proven at a
very high likelihood, more reasonable than not that you absolutely,
in fact not more reasonable than that. Excuse me, I
mispoke ray drops beyond a reasonable doubt. So you have
to be so thought to be guilty by the evidence,
by the testimony by the forensics, that no reasonable doubt
can exist to your guilt.
Speaker 5 (04:42):
Period.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
That's the bar, and it's that high, Carlos, because people's
lives are on the line, jail execution in some states.
That's a high bar. Totally different standard of proof in
a civil matter. You only have to be believed to
be responsible for the things you're accused of. We call
it fifty one percent more reasonable than not, more probable
(05:05):
than not that you did it. So that's why a
lot of times rain drops you'll see people bring a
civil case instead of a criminal case, right because they
could be argued, madam security guard, if you were so
injured and so distressed and so traumatized by this so
called scar and finger nail cut or what have you,
(05:25):
why not call the cops, Why not have Cardio arrested?
Why not, you know, pursue it in a criminal court?
That's what oftentimes people say.
Speaker 5 (05:33):
Right.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Oftentimes, Carlos is not pursued criminally because there's not enough evidence.
There's not enough to reach that high burden of proof
of beyond a reasonable doubt. So you bring that burden
of proof down to more probable than not, and we
find ourselves in civil court.
Speaker 5 (05:49):
Does that make sense?
Speaker 4 (05:51):
No, it makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Wow, Because the thing that was so confusing to me,
which is why I'm glad you cleared it up, is
although the former security guard alleged that Cardi b spat
on her, scratched her nose with a fingernail doing a
verbal altercation, this wasn't a criminal.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
Trial.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
So your breakdown is great because we're now able to
really understand exactly why this case was even happening. So
the woman, the former security guard, she decided like you said,
to sue Cardi b for this alleged altercation not criminal
(06:37):
but civil.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
She sued her for twenty four.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Million, Okay, she sued her for twenty four million dollars
for again rain drops, for allegedly saying for Carti allegedly
spitting on her her nose with a fingernail.
Speaker 4 (07:02):
Talk to us about this, and why would any lawyer.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Agree to take on the case a of this magnitude
or lack thereof magnitude.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
But also to say, twenty four million dollars seems like
the right number for this.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
It's laughable, right, So I have to say for me,
and this is my actual legal opinion here, Carlos, not
my personal opinion. I think this case was over before
it started because of that number. Knowing no other facts, right,
knowing no other facts, whether there's going to be somebody
to testify to them seeing Cardi do this or not
do this, knowing no other facts, the minute you have
(07:44):
the audacity and really the willful kind of bad intention
as an attorney to bow this on behalf of your
client in civil court. And the most egregious harm you
can sign eight is the being spit upon and a
three inch fingernail laceration. And you talking about twenty four million.
(08:11):
You've undermined your own credibility just in the filing of
the complaint.
Speaker 5 (08:15):
See what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Now, let me tell you how it could have gone different.
I'm not saying Cardi would have been found liable or
that she should have been I'm just saying how it
could have played out with more of an opportunity for
the plaintiff here, the security guard, to have a better
outcome that she was seeking. You, and I believe this
is true in the state of Georgia. In most states,
when you follow a lawsuit like this, Carlos, you do
(08:37):
need to put some number on the table. They normally
require you to put some number. You can't just say
whatever the jury thinks, but you can do it in
a less much less aggressive way. You can say, and
the plaintiff seeks in excess of ten thousand dollars of damages,
and that can be up to millions, but we're putting
(08:57):
in a minimum threshold of ten thousand dollars, a minimum
threshold of one thousand dollars.
Speaker 5 (09:02):
You see what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
And because that threshold, DIC takes what type of court
you might be in So I think had this case
been filed, this lawsuit been filed at the onset, Carlos saying,
same complaint, same facts, same allegations, and the relief we
seek your honor is in excess of ten thousand dollars.
(09:24):
Let us have our day in court now. I'm willing
to hear you out, and I'm willing to believe that
there could be some truthfulness to what you're going to
put before this court. But when you come in this
court talking about a spat upon in a three inch
nail laceration each of about twenty four million dollars, it
reads like you're operating in bad faith from day one.
(09:44):
Reads it's giving scam, it's giving extortion, it's giving payday,
and it's giving bad faith again and that's a legal term.
It's giving that you, the client, you and your client
it are operating in bad faith. And I'm already looking
at all the facts and evidence that you're putting before
(10:06):
me from that lens, that that landing.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Yeah, oh baby, it's a jet blue holiday.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
Right right right? What if the kids saying Jetsu holiday.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
This is reality with the king, and I'm Carlos King
let's get back into the show. It makes so much sense.
So what Ebany is saying is or her legal opinion.
The fact that due to an alleged three inch laceration
from Carti's nails, that allegedly happened, and to say that
(10:43):
it was worked twenty four million is interesting too, because
what the security guard said under oath is that this
incident traumatized her and that it required a cosmetic procedure
because of the scarring from the alleged assault. She also
(11:05):
said that she lost her job over the incident as well.
What's so fascinating about that is, let's just say, for
the sake of an argument, right, let's say this did happen.
Let's say that someone of Carniv's stature, who is worth
(11:27):
millions and millions and millions of dollars, did actually make
contact with anybody, did actually spit on somebody, did actually you.
Speaker 4 (11:37):
Know, scratch her scratch her face with the nail. Based
on your.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Legal expertise, if this really did happen, it's twenty four
million dollars still an amount that should be awarded to
somebody dealing with that.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
Plus a cosmetic procedure. So here's the.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
Good news, Carlo. We don't even have to speculate about it.
The answer is, of course, that's totally irrational, and we
have a mechanism in the law that allows for us
to determine what is rational. I love this, I love
doing this with you. It is just so nostalgic for
me to go back into my early tutelage as a
(12:20):
young legal scholar and realize when I learned these things
for the first time. Seriously so again. First year in
law school we get told about the concept of a
quantum assessment of damages. Okay, there's all yes, there are books.
There are now I'm talking about That's how dated myself
talking about books electronic documented oh child, But yes, now
(12:51):
there are electronic documents and access points and all kinds
of things where you can look this up and say hey.
And there are all kinds of things that we take
into consideration, Carlos King. We put on the table and
we come up with a reasonable figure. They include the
following the actual medical bills. So like you say, let's
say this actually happened. Let's say you're which means you're
(13:12):
gonna have a literal receipt, ma'am of what the cosmetic surgeon,
cost of what your primary care visits, cost of what
your medications cost.
Speaker 5 (13:22):
You see, I'm saying all of that.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
We're gonna add all your bandages and dressings, your nearest
foreign ship.
Speaker 5 (13:27):
I don't add it all up. Put it all on.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
The table, Carlos. Now this is the nickel and dime
lawyer in me, coming out girl play. You've got a
band a bitch, Put it on the table. Skin flash
color that's more expensive.
Speaker 5 (13:42):
Put it on the town. Okay, So that's after.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
So were not half a bad day a beauty uh coloration,
makeup child?
Speaker 4 (13:56):
Go ahead, boom.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
So that's one column of expense, right, actual medical expenses. Now,
let's say you did lose your job behind this, Okay, ma'am, respectfully,
let's go on the high end. You're doing private security
for an upscale building of this magnitude. Let's just say
she made two to twenty five a year. Let's just
say that. Okay, so we're gonna put that on the tail.
(14:19):
Then let's say you're traumatized. Let's say you gotta see
your therapist for more frequent basis. We're gonna run that
up at best at best at best, at best three
hundred and fifty thousand dollars four hundred thousand dollars at best.
So now that you're talking about anything over a half
(14:42):
a million. And that's, by the way, just so you know,
when we come up with these numbers, Carlos, we add
everything we can conceive of you. That's why I'm being funny,
but I'm being kind of This is really how it goes.
You stretch the limits of possibility to bring all future
medical Let's say the scar gets infected and you got
to cut the thing back.
Speaker 5 (15:00):
So you put all that.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Yeah, this is how we do. This is what we
do in the war room, Carlos. Those of us lawyers
go back to Scandal. You know how they had the
war room with the gladiators. Same thing, every case, every
case we handled this way. A good lawyer, you conceive
of the biggest number you could conceive of, and then
you multiply it by three. Why three for the damages themselves,
(15:25):
the attorney, the third I'm gonna take as the lawyer,
and then the third for the taxes. Because you're still
gonna get taxed on any settlement that you get or
any damages that you received, you get your taxes taxable
income not not out of ten times. Oh yes, yeah,
great jumps learning today, baby, okay.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
So yeah so so. But but but to stop you there,
because I'm just so fascinated by this. The lawyer, whatever
the judgment is, for the amount at the end of
the day, just so we you know, for future references,
the attorney, okay, does the law firm get a third
or the attorney him or herself get the third of
(16:06):
the thorough.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Which could just be if I'm so over, if it's
the law offices of ebid K Williams, ebidy K Williams
gets that third. If it's Carlos King and Associates and
you've got associates, the firm gets the third and then
you pay, because that's how the legal partnership works. But
the point is, one third of whatever the plane of
gets goes to legal fees, period, because that's and that's
(16:29):
the nature of a standard contingency agreement. One third goes
to lawyers, one third goes to Uncle Sam, and the
client gets what's left. And you want to make sure
that number is high enough, Carlos to where there can
be some real compensation. That's that's how we're thinking of
this so again, I just put everything from the nearest
foreign to the surgery, to the lost wages, to the
(16:50):
therapy bills. I put it all on the table, and
I couldn't get to more than three four hundred thousand.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
Yeah, and then it's times the three.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
And again, at best, you're you're asking four million bucks,
maybe maybe a million point two five at best. So
when you start talking about twenty four million dollars for
even the most astronomical expansion of damages, you're operating in
bad faith from a from a legal.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Perspective, one of the things that I do want to
talk to you about was the swort of behavior from
the prosecution. The lawyer who cross examined Cardi B on
the stand. A lot of people felt that his behavior
as a lawyer was very negative. Some was the unprofessional allegedly,
(17:41):
some people have said it was inappropriate. He asked her
a series of questions about, you know, whether or not
the woman in question who allegedly got assaulted, about her
how big she was. He asked Party B about her raise.
He asked Cardi B. What and now she's wearing a
wig today? Her hair was sure yesterday. It seemed like
(18:06):
this was a Saturday Night Live parody on Scandal, right,
it didn't seem believable. And Cardi b who's a personality,
gave the audience and the lawyer what he wanted, which
was memes, reactions and everything else. What is your take
on the behavior of this lawyer did Is this somebody
(18:29):
that you think knew that.
Speaker 4 (18:33):
He had a tough case to present?
Speaker 5 (18:36):
So a few things.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Number One, Carti is a pro and I'm talking to
the king of reality TV. At least any of us
forget before she was a Grammy Award winning artist. She
was a reality TV star, which means she was a
brilliant one at that, which means she is a what
expert storyteller?
Speaker 4 (18:55):
Right?
Speaker 5 (18:57):
And so much of what we do in the courtroom, Carlos.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
So much of who wins and loses in the court
of law, it's about who tells a better story. I'm
not saying it should be that way. I'm saying that
is what it is. And so I think that this
was an attorney who failed to do his due diligence,
and I mean that both in the legal and cultural sense,
didn't know who he was dealing with. From a Carti
(19:25):
is as media trained as media savvy, and all of
this is this.
Speaker 5 (19:30):
Is just what the court of law is.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
In many ways, Carlos King is just an amplification or
even a condensation rather of public opinion of the court
of public opinion. So you just scale that down on
an intimate level and you've got an actual court of law.
Carti is not going to be any less effective on
that stage. Pun intended that she's going to be as
(19:54):
effective when the cameras are up for love and hip
hop than when the cameras are off for the grand
same thing, same skill set. This case, this trial called
on the same skill set that Cardi B has been
perfecting from her YouTube days.
Speaker 5 (20:09):
So we're talking about twenty years, see what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
So that's what I do.
Speaker 5 (20:13):
I think this.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Attorney was entirely out of his league, failed to properly
educate himself on the savvy and the skill set and
the brilliance of what this witness, this defense witness, was
going to bring to this cross and ended up doing
themselves tremendous disfavor. Like you said, only made themselves as
(20:36):
the attorney look unprepared, inadequate, caught off guard, and kind
of having to stand in your own shit. You made
a shit sound week that you intended to deliver to
the defendant, Cardi B and your ass had to eat it.
That's what happened in this trial, from my opinion, and
one of the first things we learned in law school
(20:56):
calls king when your whether you're on direct exam you're
asking the questions first, or you're on cross exam, as
we saw with Kurty and this lawyer, never ever, never, ever, ever,
ever ever in your life ask a question you don't
already know the answer to.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
Never. Yes, I even knew that watching Gather Law in
Order LA Law. Like, sorry, I'm screaming, but yeah, it's.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
True because it's triggering what you know, what what what
is culturally ingrained in us to know about how these
trial lawyer roles go. And so you forgot the first
The first thing must be first, Carlos, and you forgot
the first thing never, and that's why you wound up
surprising yourself. So no, I think Cardi gets all the
(21:44):
credit here. She was absolutely brilliant on that witness fan, the.
Speaker 5 (21:50):
All of it. It was all brilliant.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
And I also just kind of want to say substantively,
she really came from a strong argument point Cardi. I'm
saying because I and any woman on that jury, mostly
especially any that have carried and delivered a baby know
(22:15):
just how vulnerable and delicate that moment is.
Speaker 5 (22:20):
Less you, uh baby libity.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
They know how delicate and vulnerable that moment is, Carlos,
when you are pregnant with your first child, especially your
first child, any child, but your first child, as Cardi
was in twenty eighteen, your huge celebrity, your global phenomenon.
So you do what you're supposed to do, which is
exercise all of your assets of protection and privacy. The
(22:45):
medical facility cooperates with you, shuts the whole place down,
so you could have that privacy and respect the tenderness
of your early trimesters of pregnancy, which we all know, Carlos,
kN and tell that baby is at least I want
to say, it's twenty seven weeks twenty maybe it's twenty
two weeks, but closer to twenty seven weeks.
Speaker 5 (23:07):
What we call having viability of life outside of the uterus.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
I can't explain to you how delicate that moment deals
as somebody who's carrying their child, because I remember it
like it was yesterday, and I am, as the great
nan Leak says, known, not necessarily famous, but I am known.
Speaker 5 (23:29):
Thank you, Nimi. So as a.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
Numb I got tip of this.
Speaker 5 (23:36):
Oh my God, shout out to miss Leaks. I appreciate
being known for some people. I'm serious, child, So.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
Anyway, as somebody known, Carlos, stay with me. Now what
I was in my early stages of pregnancy. I certainly
wasn't going to have the hospital or the facility shut
down for me, but I, you know, have a little
baseball cap on, trying to keep it low key because
you know, twelve thirteen weeks pregnant, keep it cute wanted.
Of course, you know, my pregnancy wasn't known until I
(24:08):
was about to pop, and that was by designed You
and I discussed it. You were one of the first
people to know I was with child.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
Ch'a.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
I took my little black ass in that in my
OB's office, trying to be incog negro.
Speaker 5 (24:22):
Here comes somebody y you own the breakfast.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
Club, and then they walked away and then turned around
and said congratulations.
Speaker 5 (24:32):
Now it was sweet. But when I tell you, my heart.
Speaker 4 (24:36):
Saint, my heart saint just now and I'm not pregnant.
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Yeah, because now people can know. Now the information is
not contained. Now anybody could do anything with it, and
even if nobody even means you any ill will like
the security guard said, oh I just got excited and
I did it. Ain't nobody ask you all that. What
you need to know is that it still a violation.
(25:02):
It's still a violation, and it's a violation such that
it becomes totally understandable and reasonable that Cardi would have
a reaction to that that would be hostile. So before
we get to the did she lay her hands on
the woman or not? Did she actually spit and make
physical contact with the women or not? The premise is
(25:22):
set up, Carlos, so that Carti in this circumstance is
extraordinarily sympathetic.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Yeah, yeah, no, And listen, everything you're saying makes a
lot of sense.
Speaker 4 (25:35):
It was a four day trial.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
The jury deliberate, Sorry, the jury deliberated for less than
one hour.
Speaker 5 (25:42):
Okay, just know exactly what type of time they were.
Speaker 4 (25:45):
On that was.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
That was obvious what the outcome is going to be.
But Ebony a question for you. While the deliberation was happening,
Cardi b went outside and she was confronted by a
paparazzo who asked her, Look, you're pregnant.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
Is the baby, offset is the step fan? What's going on?
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Cardi B took a marker that was from somebody and
threw it at this paparazzo and said, respect women pretty much,
you know, gave him, you know, some some tongue lashing,
and went about her business. A lot of people are like,
Carti B. You are on trial ful assault, Why would
you do this? Talk to me about that? Because the
(26:31):
prosecutor tried to tell the judge what happened outside, and
the judge wasn't here for it.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
But it did raise the question ebidy K Williams, and
I did want to.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Ask you if you were Carti's client and you saw
her do that, would that make you nervous in the moment?
Speaker 5 (26:48):
So a few things.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
If I were Carti's attorney, I would advise my beloved client,
miss Cardi B, to not throw things, and let's keep
our hands to ourselves, and let's not even to the
point you're alluding to. Carlos gives the impression that we
even have violent tendencies, but people are human, and Carti
(27:13):
gets the benefit of being so well known to where
people generally can put in context her reactiveness. So if
you or I Carlos were somewhere and we throw a
pin at somebody, I think that would raise eyebrows because
people don't know us necessarily to be hyper reactive. They
(27:36):
don't have a context for us in that way. So
that would be like, wow, if you were bold enough
to throw a pin into a crowd of folks with
the cameras running, what are you like behind closed doors?
Speaker 5 (27:47):
Carti gets the benefit of.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
Us having a pretty damn good idea as to what
she might be like in a more closed door setting.
She is impulsive, she is reactive, So do you see
I'm saying it's a nuanced point, but I think it's
an important one that she actually gets. I would be
less concerned if Carti be as my client did that,
then I would be concerned if you were I did that.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
I do want to ask you this.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
So Carti, the after she was found not liable for
this particular situation, she did go back outside and spoke
about what happened. One of the things she said that
I do want to talk to you about because although
you're not famous, you are known, we love you. Epany
(28:33):
has the best. I really listen, I'm gonna sidetrack a
little bit. I really hope that you guys have y'all
told me personally. But I love the fact that y'all
get to see my friend Ebony her glory because she has.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
A sense of humor.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
She I know, y'all, I know some of y'all thinks
she's so serious whatever, Epany is a foot That I
get to show my friend in this light means the
world to me because she is buddy af to be.
Speaker 4 (29:01):
But okay, Carti B.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
After she was filed not libel, she thanks her supporters.
She called the lawsuit frivolous, but she also said this,
and you are a public figure, and I want to
get your thoughts on this.
Speaker 4 (29:15):
You are famous and you are a lawyer.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Cardi B emphasized that she would not settle with anybody
because she's a celebrity, and she warned people against filing
frivolous lawsuits against them, noting that she works hard for
her money and that she will countersuit if this happens again.
Speaker 4 (29:39):
What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Because some celebrities do feel like because I'm famous for
all of the purposes. I have some money that people
are going to file frivolous lawsuits that has no bearings,
no truth in it, just because they want a payday.
(30:01):
Do you think couch assuming will scare these people away? Yes?
Speaker 5 (30:06):
And also, first of all, I love that Cartis said this.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
I love that she said this, and I love that
she said this in this moment immediately following this verdict
that was so favorable to her. And let's be clear,
Carti's has some momentum behind fuck around and find out
with Cardi b baby when it comes to this court
thing better as Tasha Kay very seriously, and she is
doing what most celebrities in her position Carlos King will
(30:32):
not do, which is make the time. Carti said, period, Die,
I'm going to make the time to play exactly the
games y'all want to play, meaning I'm going to come
to court, I'm going to put on my wig, my outfit,
I'm gonna raise my hand on the Bible, I'm gonna testify.
I'm going to do the thing that y'all are counting
(30:53):
on me not doing, which is half legal. Follow through
same thing with Tasha Ka all this, most people would
have got that verdict, multi million dollar verdict around Tasha
k owing her and went on with their not went
on with their business. Now, Cardi Carti's where's where's the
updated hearing so we can find out her current financial status?
And she's on it like clockwork every six months because
(31:16):
she actually it is to collect. Oh that's okay, Oh
hold on one, saying Carlos.
Speaker 5 (31:25):
Last you get this?
Speaker 4 (31:27):
Okay, No, it takes time.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
Not should have broke the good dip teeth baby god damn,
like mama got that much grigy. So yes, I love
that Curti did this, Carlos, because this sends a message
that Carti is not the one to be played with.
Speaker 5 (31:49):
And she said it flat out.
Speaker 4 (31:50):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
We saw similar messaging from jay Z with Busby, you know,
but he said, not only am I not going to settle,
I'm actually going to come for you and your ability
to practice law in these cases. So I think whether
it's a counter suit, whether it is challenging the other
sides lawyers around their credibility to practice, I think that
(32:13):
type of punitive counteraction is very important because it sends
a message, Carlos that they are not sitting ducks to
just wait and be targeted for payouts, you know, and
I think it's very important and I respect it, you know,
like Carti said, And whether she works so hard for
(32:33):
it or not, it's her money period. It's her money period.
People are not entitled to in contrary to popular belief,
and it is long as enough celebrities Carlos are willing
to not make the time to go to court, not
make the time to file the counterclaim, not make the
time to put on their clothes and go down to
(32:53):
the courthouse and testify in their own defense on their
own behalf, and they feel that it is easier and
quicher to just write the check, which is their prerogative.
Speaker 4 (33:04):
But you will.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
Continue to see a cycle of civilians that see that
as a right opportunity for a quick payday, and some
will succeed. From what Cardi B said clearly and loudly
today is that she will not be the ATM. So
you're gonna have to get somebody else to do it,
because Cardi B is not in the business of doing quick, fast,
(33:25):
easy paydays.
Speaker 5 (33:26):
And I respect her greatly for it.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Last question for you, Ebanie, what advice do you give
public figures, celebrities or a person who has means when
they are confronted with a situation where they feel like
they may have to defend themselves but also do not
want to be in a situation where they can get sued.
And what some people again are calling a frivolous case.
(33:50):
What avice do you get people? Should they ignore and
move on? Should they have bodyguards with them? What do
you think?
Speaker 5 (33:56):
This is a tough call.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
It's a personal call, right, you know, if you can
afford the guard situation, I think that takes care of
a lot of it. Had Cardi had her own kind
of security with her, had Cardi had her own personal
security with her that day, I'm certain that person would
have been able to fend off this security of woman
(34:18):
and her claims and maybe wouldn't have gotten to this.
But two things to that point, though he agrees with you, yes,
something to say, don't she goodness, She's like, maybe I
want to be a security guard.
Speaker 5 (34:30):
I don't know, Chia, wait wait on it.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
But but here's where I'm careful about. Here's where I'm
careful Carlos about advocating for that as the answer A
that's an extraordinarily that is an extraordinarily expensive endeavor to
constantly have security. So a that is an extraordinarily expensive
(34:55):
endeavor to constantly have paid security with you twenty four
to seven around the I don't care who you are.
And secondly, I think that's that's a precedent that if
you're if you're wealthy and or famous, that you somehow
must bear the constant burden of never being able to
have any type of expectation of privacy. And I simply
don't believe that. I simply don't believe that, Carlos. I
(35:19):
get that that people are going to be interested in
your life. That is part of the price that any
of us pay that do our lives in a public fashion.
But I don't believe that the price has to be
so exorbitantly high simply because one has a talent or
a gift or something to offer to the public that
now you must sacrifice any sense of autonomy and ability
to be an individual with privacy and protection. So and again, again,
(35:43):
it's personal and it's different in every case. I could
see where somebody like Beyonce it makes more sense for
her to.
Speaker 5 (35:49):
Have a Julius at all times.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
But I could see, you know, I live in New
York City, you know, you've lived here, You live in Atlanta,
you live in la you live in Miami. You know
you we see all the and I'm not talking about
just known figures. I'm talking about a listers on the train,
walking down the street, walking to Whole Foods, traded, Joe's
getting a smoothie, and they get to do that. So
(36:13):
my advice would be, figure out how important it is
to maintain some level of autonomy and privacy and consistently
that's a key word. Consistently. Move according to that, move
according to that. When it comes to engaging directly with people,
whether it's paparazzi or just nosy people in public, I
(36:34):
think you got to really kind of figure out how
far you're willing to go around that. I personally don't
advise a lot of direct contact and engagement. It's one
of the things I love about New York. People tend
to mind their business, you know. But if somebody decides
they don't want to mind their business, then you know,
you kind of have to move accordingly. And I'm not
afraid of, you know, availing to law enforcement in those
(36:54):
kind of situations. And listen, I don't take that likely,
you know, it's black people in America.
Speaker 5 (37:03):
You know, we know this. Sometimes when we invite law enforcement,
that can be its own problem.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
Right, Seriously, we got to talk about this family, but
ultimately I'm going to defer that out rather than me
sitting up here trying to go toe to toe hand
to hand contact with an individual off the street.
Speaker 4 (37:21):
Yeah, but that's a big choice.
Speaker 5 (37:23):
And everybody gets to do that how they want to
do it.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
Yeah, And that's what I got from it is what
you said. At the end of the day, do what
works for you. But everybody deserves their privacy. Yes, your
public figure, you deserve your privacy and you deserve your
personal space.
Speaker 4 (37:38):
So I understand that. I get that. Ethnick Kay Williams.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
I thank you so much for hopping on this again
your council baby Liberty.
Speaker 5 (37:46):
Yes, this little girl is doing too much.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
One more thing I did want to also say before
we wrap, Carlos that I love please. That I thought
was very much a class act and an important step
for her to take because of her responsibility as a megastar.
She also asked people to do this, lady, no harm.
She said, do this lady, Yes, I thought. You know
what's so funny I'm blake brought that up. That was
(38:10):
a takeaway for me too, like leave her alone, don't
do don't do her no harm.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Justice hasn't served. Let's all go out and just mind
our business.
Speaker 4 (38:21):
I could not agree more. I thought that was stellar.
Speaker 5 (38:23):
I that was chef's kiss.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
Not that I wasn't already a Cardif fan, but I
walk away from this whole trial even more so because
of the person that she showed herself to be throughout
this entire thing. Charming, engaging, funny, but when at the
end of it all stood on business, absolutely stood on business,
but still with compassion and empathy that this is a
human being. Even if she was out here trying to
(38:49):
get a quick payday. She played herself, she didn't play me.
And so now we're gonna move on and we're not
gonna harass her. We're not gonna harass her family, or
her children or her parents. Were to let this lady
continue to live. Don't play with Cardi though, but let
her live, and anybody else with any bright ideas about
coming to play with me up around and find out
(39:09):
it was it was perfect.
Speaker 4 (39:10):
Could not agree.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
Mark I, that's honestly my favorite part of the speech
because it shows the level of integrity that she had
to make sure that this woman also was not going
to be you know, accosted, yes, and in salted as well,
So no kudos to that.
Speaker 4 (39:28):
Kudos to you, Ebony, Kudos to you, Baby Liberty.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
And the best part about is that the that the
range jobs love Ebony before I let you go. They
love when they get a chance to see you be
a working mom because it's so relatable to the world
and my audience. So we love when Baby Liberty makes her.
Speaker 4 (39:49):
Yes, we love it.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
We love it so know that is actually it makes
it makes the women who are the listeners, like Ebony
is one of us.
Speaker 4 (39:58):
So kudos to you.
Speaker 5 (40:00):
I love you, Carlos. I love the rain drops.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
I love that we get these opportunities to have these
conversations rooted in law and pop culture.
Speaker 5 (40:08):
And also our friendship.
Speaker 4 (40:09):
So you're the best.
Speaker 5 (40:10):
My love till next time.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
Till next time, baby, love you, love you, Bye bye bye.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
Reality with the King is executive produced by me Carlos King,
produced by Lizzie Nimitz, and a partnership.
Speaker 4 (40:26):
With the Lack Effect Network.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
You can also find us on my YouTube channel at
the Carlos King Underscore,
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