September 11, 2025 • 34 mins
Reali-TEA Crime Stories is back, and Carlos and Courtney are diving into the Tommy Manzo case. For Carlos, a former RHONJ producer, this story hits especially close to home. With a special guest judge joining the conversation, they break down the twists, turns, and ultimate verdict of the case. Buckle up, because the Manzo Mania is running wild in this episode.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Reality with the King is hosted by me, Carlos King.
I'm an executive producer who have produced some of your
favorite shows from the Real Housewives in Atlanta, New Jersey
and my own creation, The Love and Marriage Franchise and
Bell Collective. Every episode we recap reality television from the
Real Housewives Franchise to The Bachelor or Selling Sunset, in
(00:27):
addition to celebrity guests, whether in the unscripted space or
scripted as well. All right, rain Dross, If you've been
sipping with us, then you know Reality Crime Stories is
where glam meets grit and the headlines always comes with
(00:51):
the sight of hard truth. Every week, Courtney Parker and
I put back the velvet robe on.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Fame, Fortune and the fallout.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
They try to hide. That's right, Carlos.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
Everything from reality TV scandals to the crimes committed behind
the cameras, whether it happens on or off the screen,
Carlos and I will bring you the tea surrounding hot
topic crime stories involving all of your favorite reality TV personalities.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
And if today's story taught us anything, child, is that
in this world the tea is never just hot, it's criminal.
On today's episode of Reality Crime Stories, Courney Parker and
I are going to dive into the Tommy Manzo Paine
(01:43):
as it relates to his ex wife, Dina Manzo and
why he was found guilty and have to serve subven
years in prison, as federal prosecutors say that Tommy hired
a mind family to carry out a violent home invasion
(02:04):
and assault on Dina and her now husband David. So, Courtney,
you have a friend who's also a judge that is
going to help us break down this particular case.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
Tearmy Gundy is a personal friend of mine. She is
an author, she is a sitting judge in Atlanta, and
just an overall good friend of mine and just an
insightful person as we break down these reality crime stories.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
All right, well let's break it the High Judge.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
How are you, hey, Carlow, Hey, Courtney, Hey, how are
you guys? We are doing wonderful. Are you all ready
to talk about mob ties and Jersey lives?
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Yeah, we absolutely have to, so listen. Full disclosure, I
was the producer on the first two seasons of The
Real House Washing New Jersey. My talent that I was
responsible for was Teresa Judais and Dina Manzo, who was
Manziel at the time she was married to Tommy.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Which the interesting thing about all of this.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Is we had two women who are sisters, Dina and Caroline,
that were married to brothers.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Yes, so two sisters.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
I mean a set of sisters married to a set
of brothers, which is like so unheard of.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
So Tommy Manzel is the brother.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Yes, exactly, exactly exactly, that's what it's given.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
What's interesting. What's what's interesting is Tommy Manzel never signed.
Speaker 5 (03:58):
A release to appear on the show, which is unheard
in the Housewives, I guys, and this is season one
of the Real Housewives on New Jersey that debut in
two thousand and nine.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
I would be around him sometimes he avoided the cameras.
We will be at their home, he will avoid the home.
The following season, Dina decided to walk away from the show,
and I believe during that time too, is when she
was on the verge of divorcing Tommy. I had a
(04:36):
little bit of a front row seat into all of this.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
I'll know about his case. I'm sure it makes more
sense to you why he refused to sign the release,
why he avoided the cameras.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Well, now it's starting to make sense. So Judge, I
do have this question for you. Can you explain to
us exactly what occurred, because Tommy Manzeau hired mob people
(05:11):
to attack his ex wife her then boyfriend.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
For what though?
Speaker 1 (05:17):
I think that's the biggest thing, Like, what was the
reason why he decided to do this.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Well, we can't speak for the state of mind of him,
of course, right, but what we can talk about is
what was in the court documents, correct, And so what
was in the documents is that he hired a soldier
from the Lukesey family. And everybody, if you've ever watched
any Mob movies, have heard of the Lucasey family. You know,
(05:46):
there's a family reference to him and the Godfather and
good Fellows and even the Godfather of Harlem. Now, so
this name is very popular. They are one of the
five families in the Mob. So if you have heard
of them, then you know exactly what we are dealing with.
And he hired one of their soldiers basically to intimidate
(06:12):
this woman. And all I can, again from the documents
tell is that he was trying to assert some fear
and intimidation against her. But he is not technically a
part of the mob. And I think that is important
to know. Even though he was avoiding the cameras, even
(06:35):
though he refused to sign the release, he's not a
member of the Lucasey family. He hired a Lucas member
soldier and in exchange for this, he catered a wedding
for him. M yes, yes, what.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Not to stop you just here and he so that
this is the gas It's a gag. Okay.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
So my my rainows are listening are Bravo aholics, Bravo
you know fanatics as well. So the Brownstone is the
Mansoh family catering facility Rangejos remember.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Yoh wow. So he's used the family business to contract
this violence against her, right right. That is how we
got to our mob ties got it because this is
why the federal government even if and you have to understand,
(07:39):
and let's let's clear this up. Even though we're talking
about the housewives, you're not on social media, you are
not in America, and you haven't heard of the record
heering case against Sean Puffy Combe's or Jesse Young Thug Williams.
So many young people don't realize that racketeering. They have
(08:01):
associated that with Young Thug and Sean Tolms. But racketeering
originated with the mafia. It was originally actually passed so
that they could get and prosecute members of the mob. Wow,
(08:23):
which is how they got to the conspiracy and anything
that you do in the act of a criminal act.
That's because it was ever think that catering a waging
is criminal, right, But if just your payment to a
my soldier, now it's a part of the criminal conspiracy.
(08:44):
Got it?
Speaker 4 (08:47):
Let me ask a question because this is sounding like
one of my favorite episodes of the Sopranos.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
Shout out to the Sopranos.
Speaker 4 (08:55):
But when we were going through the exactly when we
were going through the charges, I know, even as we
prepared for this, you made a correction that a lot
is a lot of people are reporting wrong. It wasn't
The indictment didn't come with a clear agreement. Can you
(09:16):
speak to us a little bit about the difference between
a plea agreement and being found guilty or pleading guilty.
Can you speak to us a little bit about so
that way we have a clearer understanding going into some
of the questions that the rain drops in our audience.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Might even have yes, yes, So I heard Carlows when
he spoke and introduced the case. He said he took
a prele deal. As all pleadale is when the defendants
and the prosecutor get together and they come up with
an agreement and say, hey, we have decided if you
enter into a plea of guilty, then this will be
(09:55):
your sentence. That's not what happened in this case. In
this case, he had a two week track. He went
before a jury and they found him guilty. Okay, yes,
which is really And I want to make this note
because I think it's important when we're educating about the
legal system. This is the Justice Department, this is federal law,
(10:18):
and I want people to hear me and be clear
the federal law in trials have a greater than ninety
nine percent success rate. Wow, that means that less than
one percent are quitted. But I think what happened in
this case again is because he is not an actual
(10:41):
member of the mob. He probably felt like, there's no
way I can be convicted a rica because I am
not a member of the mob of the mob. But
the prosecutors were clear in this case. They wanted to
make sure that the message went to the mob and
anyone who was going to conspile with them that if
(11:04):
you get in bed with the mob, rather you are
a member of the mob for not if there's a
criminal activity, you will be held accountable for a conspiracy
under the Rico Act, under the Vicar Act.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
So I have a question for you, because I never
watched the Sopranos. I I know, judge me later, I know,
just mey later, Rain Josh, I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
You know you watch the Wire. Oh, okay, that is
a problem.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
No, guess what I have watched now.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
I'm obsessed with Housewives of New Jersey, the Power Universe,
on Stars.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
It's not the same, it's not the same.
Speaker 4 (12:03):
Disrespectful to them.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
I don't judge. I'm sorry, don't book my black bart.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
But what I will say, don't judge me.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
But you're being judged by the judge.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
And I'm the jury. So no, okay, but we'll deal
with that.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
No, I'm sorry, Okay, we'll deal with that later.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
You're right, But I do have a question. Can you
explain to.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Those who have never heard, uh is the lu Casey family?
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Is that how you pronounce the name family?
Speaker 3 (12:51):
It's lue Casey.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Ok.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Explain to us who the lu Casey family is.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
So the Luca case family is one of the five
families of the mafia. So there are five families that
basically early nineteen hundreds have branded all of organized crime,
and the Luksey family is one of those five families.
And they have had their hands in almost any illegal
(13:23):
activity and corruption that you can think of, from unions
to drugs to trafficking, bribes and a host of other
heinous thinks. So this is a serious family that he
actually got in bed with. And I'm pretty sure that
(13:46):
he was very aware of who he was getting in
bed with. It's the reason he went to them. He
wanted to send a message to that woman to say,
I am going to just let you move on. You're
going to have to deal with me because I have
(14:09):
the mob behind me, and that sends a totally different message.
But the government basically said, that's fine. You think that
you're going to go to family court, but no, you're
gonna have to come see the Justice Department. We're going
to prosecute you whether you are a member of a
mob family or not. And that ended up with him
(14:32):
during several years. And I mean, you said you work
with them for two years. You're pretty familiar with him.
I don't want to, you know, talk about his exact age,
but he's over fifty years oh, you know, so at
fifty years old, you have more years behind you than
in front of you. And the way that we always
(14:53):
said that when I was growing up is seven years
may not seem like a long time to you, especially
for the threat and the violence against her, But at
fifty plus and you miss seven Christmases, think about that,
that's a long time.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
One of the things that has been plaguing social media
right now is the strain between Dina and Caroline because
Caroline allegedly wrote a letter, a character letter on behalf
of her then brother in law that went against her
(15:34):
own sister, Dina, What does that?
Speaker 3 (15:40):
What does that say? In your opinions? Guys?
Speaker 4 (15:45):
What does that say when your own sister kind of
goes against in a in a universe where family is everything,
particularly Italian families are almost as close, if not closer
uh than us in Black families. There is a code
(16:05):
that we live by that family is everything. So when
your own blood sister goes against and writes a character
letter to speak to the man that set up a
violent crime against you and an assault. What do you guys,
(16:27):
how do you guys feel about that? Because that's something
that the rain drops, that's something that our audience has
been posing with the strain between Dina and her sister Caroline.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Yes, I can, I can talk about these sort of
so related issues they've had and and Judge feel free
to talk about anything from the factual standpoint, especially what
us listed in the court documents. What I will say
is this, when we only season one of the Real
House Washing New Jersey, Like I said, it was a
(17:03):
set of sisters married to a set of brothers, Caroline
and Dina have I believe it's nine siblings total, and
I'm a product of ten siblings. And what I will
say is you grow up being the best of friends,
and you grew up being close. We did not see
any friction between Carolina and Dina when we filmed season one.
The infamous scene of season one, the finale where Teresa
(17:27):
July splipped the table. What happened prior to that table flipped,
maybe thirty minutes before, was when Danielle Style accused Dina
of showing this book that had all of Danielle's past
in it, Caroline said, it wasn't my sister, Dina, it
(17:50):
was me. We're thickest bees when it comes to this family, right,
So what happened after that? At the reunion of that
same season, Caroline pride as she was talking compassionately, angrily
(18:10):
to Danielle and says something along the lines of you
know what you did, You know what you did?
Speaker 2 (18:16):
You know what you did.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Rumors world that Caroline was intimating something in regards to
the biological father of Dina's daughter Lexi, and Dina, who's
a very private person, allegedly did not want that out.
When we started season two of The Real House Spots
New Jersey, these two sisters were not close by any
(18:38):
stretch of the imagination. Dina filmed for a week and
quit the show. She came in the show telling the producers,
I will tell my own story. I'm telling you this
story in a week two Max, but I'm out of here.
They have not spoken in years, Dina Caroline. They do
not speak. Their children do not talk. The cousins do
(18:59):
not speak. Dina does not live in Jersey anymore. I'm
not going to disclose her location.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
She is.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
She has decided for herself. These are her words, not mine,
to personally ostracize herself from Caroline's life and some of
his siblings, not all, And she listened to a whole
different location. It was a surprise to the Bravo audience that, yes,
as we know with siblings, you go through your issues.
(19:29):
It was a surprise to the audience that Caroline. But
remember Caroline's husband is Tommy. Yes, is the brother of
Tommy Manzo. And I'm not here to get into the
family drama. I can only assume that when you are
living with your husband and this is your family and
(19:52):
his brother is on trial for at this time allegedly
at the time write the letter, it was alleged allegedly
doing this to your sister her, but you're not speaking
to I don't know what the reason was, but Caroline
did say in the letter she did describe Tommy Manziel
as a kind hearted and caring person. Dina's Manzo's daughter, Lexi,
(20:18):
expressed profound betrayal and confusion, stating that she could not
understand how her aunt would support the man who tormented
her mother. Caroline's son Albi Manzell defended his mother's actions
on his podcast emphasizing that she made an unpopular choice
(20:40):
based on her relationship.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
With Tommy and believed that he was not a threat.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
I think that we also have to look at the
psychological kna. There's no way that we can discuss the
family of two brothers married to two sisters without bringing
in and overlooking the mob times. We have no idea
what Caroline and her husband the pressure that they may
(21:10):
have been under, because you're not just taking on Tommy,
You're taking on the new Hazy family. And I think
that that is nothing that could be overlooked. Likely. I
am not defending her behaviors. Those could have truly been
how she felt and her sentiment towards her brother in law.
But you also have to take into a cow the
(21:33):
pressure mounting against the entire family family. Right, we keep
using this word family. You have the biological family of
the two brothers and the two sisters, but you have
this mob family, right that has and you know, we
(21:54):
have this culture now where they have made snitching, which
don't get me started. I'm a judge. I believe that
telling the truth is a part of what makes the
legal system phenomenal and protects victims. But we're talking about
the culture of a crime family, and so I think
(22:15):
that you can't have that conversation without being fair if
you're not mentioning that there is a crime family in
the background that could have been imposing pressure.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
So my question for you is this, though, judge, if
the luc case family has some sort of involvement, did
they Did somebody from the family get convicted, get arrested?
Any the people who elect the people who I'm sorry,
did the people who violently beat up Dina and.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Her now husband? Are they in jail? Were arrest made?
Are the Lucasey family members in jail? What's going on there?
Speaker 3 (22:59):
So he was a luke Casey family soldier and the
lucase family was not brought into this, which is again
why I brought that up when we were talking about Caroline.
The lu Casey family is going to probably do everything
that they can to make sure that they were not involved.
They wanted to make this a domestic issue versus a
(23:20):
rico issue. And so the actual we will call him
the trigger man, the man who actually committed the act
of the assault, was also convicted, but it had nothing
to do with the lucase family where they actually had
anything to do with it, so the two people who
were actually involved in it. And again I go back
(23:43):
to I think that's why Tommy was really taking this
to trial because a lot of people don't fight the
Justice Department, not with the ninety nine percent win ray,
because if the Justice Department goes to trial, they are
pretty certain of a conviction. But I think that he
was really going to hold on to the fact that
(24:05):
he was not a mob member, but again, he paid
a mob member for the act. This was very dangerous
for everybody involved, right.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
Do you think that's also why Dina has been responding
the way that she has, Like even with the conviction,
when you see and you hear that Teresa reached out
and said justice was served and she just hearted it
like she's been really quiet. Is it because do we
(24:46):
assume it's because she just does not want any more smoke,
she understands the gravity of the family that did these
violent acts. Or is she just in a position now
that she just kind of wants to move on with
her life. No matter what, I believe it's probably all
of it, okay, because you do not go through a
(25:09):
violent act without trauma, right, and as a victim, all
you want to do is put your life together and
move past that.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
But you also made decisions where you do not put
yourself in that same position again. And so I believe
that Dina has probably changed the way that she moves
because she wants a different outcome. She never wants to
put herself in that predicament again. She has probably put
up safeguards to try and avoid that at all costs.
(25:43):
I also think that she definitely has a keen awareness
of what it means to be involved with a mob
family and the reach of a mob family. And again,
my family have long memories, and so Dina is probably
(26:05):
stepping very likely with that. And who could blame her.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Right saying yeah, because listen, I work with Dina. Dina
is a beautiful, sweet woman. She's not confrontational, She's very
fragile in nature. She is the youngest child out of
nine siblings, the youngest, okay. She is extremely close to
(26:37):
her mother, both her parents, and she is just somebody
who again on the show, like she she always tried
to avoid the drama. I mean, she can read you back,
you know, but if pope, she ain't no pump.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
But you gotta be able to hold your own.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Yes, and she's she's she's and funny and she stands
her ground.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
But it breaks my heart to know how viciously she
was attacked.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
And the idea of you walking to your home with
your again your your then boyfriend and it's dark and
you get attacked, and it's hard to talk about, but
the fact that this woman wasn't just tied up. They
viciously attacked, like violently, viciously attacked a woman.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
What I do want to ask you, judge, is this
what evidence did.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
The police department, the government fined to trace this back
to Tommy Manzau and then obviously what now has led
to his conviction.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
So I don't know the specifics of the case. From
that detail, I do that the guy who actually committed
the assault was connected to him and actually found guilty,
and so what I would have to presume is that
there was evidence that led back to him, especially because
(28:17):
the family business was used for the payment payment. Remember
he catered a wedding for him after this vicious attack.
And so the federal government is very good at paper trails,
which is why they have such a huge success rate,
because they are going to always got their eyes and
(28:40):
cross their teeths. So I am sure that they followed
the money, they followed the wedding, they followed the payment
of this guy, because again, Dina is a reality huge
TV star. Yeah, and we would like to believe that
everyone gets the exact same amount of coverage, right, But
(29:04):
we are also smart enough to know that there are
certain people who can bring more light on issues and
an attack against a woman who has beloved in her
community and a TV star is going to push answers
in a different way, right. And so I believe that
(29:25):
the investigation was very robust in finding the evidence that
it needed against the actual guy who committed the assault,
and once they identified him, it let him back led
them back to Timmy Right.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
Let me ask one final question, if I might, do
we think seven years is enough considering the crime?
Speaker 3 (29:52):
Do we feel like seven years.
Speaker 4 (29:55):
Was a slap on the wrist or do we feel
like it's an adequate sentence for the crime that was committed.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
Well, the one thing I think it's important to note
also is that with federal sentencing, there are guidelines that
must be followed, and I think a lot of times
people don't understand that. And so the federal guidelines tell
you what the sentencing will be based on your criminal history,
based on the level of offense, and based on what
(30:27):
you were actually convicted of. So I think that's important
for everybody to know. But I also think that as
someone who deals with this daily, seven days in jail
is a long time. Got Losing your freedom for any
(30:47):
amount of time is a long time. And I don't
want to get too sentimental, but I want you to
really understand that people spend the weekend in jail. They
lose their jobs, which leads to them losing their homes,
which leads to them losing custody of their children. That's
(31:08):
just a weekend. Now we're talking about seven years. Seven years.
I'm not going to speak because I'm going to trust
that the judge in this case followed the federal citizen guidelines.
But what I am going to tell you is that's
not a slap on the wrist. That that is real time. Wow.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Well, judge, thank you so much for taking time out
to really talk to us about this case in a
very captivated way, because Wow, the information that you provided
to us is so paramount and the bigger grand scheme
of things, because again, I know these people. I'm away
(32:01):
at what occurred. I wasn't fully privy to a lot
of the particulars of this case, Dina, Like I said.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
To you for humanizing this, because you know that you
were able to bring that element of intimacy and humanization
to them to make this real, because sometimes people look
at TV personalities and don't believe they're real people. So
kudos to you in Courtney for bringing light to this
(32:32):
to make sure people understand this was a real crime
and it was real trauma that forever changed her life,
and he and his right and.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
His Yeah, so no, so thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
And listen, I know you're busy doing the Lord's work,
but I would love to invite you back for a
future episode because as you are excellent and again as
a TV producer, you know, I think you have a
(33:08):
life from the camera just saying.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
Well, I I believe the community. It is a part,
as you say, of my Lord's work. I've wanted to
be a judge since I was nine years old, and
I always go whenever anybody invites me to talk about
this because I think that a huge part of the
justice system is education, and the more we educate people
(33:33):
about their rights about how the system works, the better
it works. So I cannot thank you enough. My friend
Courtney of course always thinks of me, but I appreciate
you and your comments and having me.
Speaker 4 (33:48):
Thank you, and we're still going to judge, good judge
until he watches the Sopranos and.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
The Wire say the wire first. There we go, There
you go.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
I got my marching artist. Thank you, ladies so much.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
I appreciate you and rang Jos will see you in
the next episode of Reality and Crime Stories with Pritty
Parker and Carlos King.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Thank you all, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Reality with the King is executive produced by me Carlos King,
produced by Lizzie Nimitz, and a partnership.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
With the Lack Effect Network.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
You can also find us on my YouTube channel at
the Carlos King Underscore
Reality with the King is hosted by me, Carlos King.
I'm an executive producer who have produced some of your
favorite shows from the Real Housewives in Atlanta, New Jersey
and my own creation, The Love and Marriage Franchise and
Bell Collective. Every episode we recap reality television from the
Real Housewives Franchise to The Bachelor or Selling Sunset, in
(00:27):
addition to celebrity guests, whether in the unscripted space or
scripted as well. All right, rain Dross, If you've been
sipping with us, then you know Reality Crime Stories is
where glam meets grit and the headlines always comes with
(00:51):
the sight of hard truth. Every week, Courtney Parker and
I put back the velvet robe on.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Fame, Fortune and the fallout.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
They try to hide. That's right, Carlos.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
Everything from reality TV scandals to the crimes committed behind
the cameras, whether it happens on or off the screen,
Carlos and I will bring you the tea surrounding hot
topic crime stories involving all of your favorite reality TV personalities.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
And if today's story taught us anything, child, is that
in this world the tea is never just hot, it's criminal.
On today's episode of Reality Crime Stories, Courney Parker and
I are going to dive into the Tommy Manzo Paine
(01:43):
as it relates to his ex wife, Dina Manzo and
why he was found guilty and have to serve subven
years in prison, as federal prosecutors say that Tommy hired
a mind family to carry out a violent home invasion
(02:04):
and assault on Dina and her now husband David. So, Courtney,
you have a friend who's also a judge that is
going to help us break down this particular case.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
Tearmy Gundy is a personal friend of mine. She is
an author, she is a sitting judge in Atlanta, and
just an overall good friend of mine and just an
insightful person as we break down these reality crime stories.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
All right, well let's break it the High Judge.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
How are you, hey, Carlow, Hey, Courtney, Hey, how are
you guys? We are doing wonderful. Are you all ready
to talk about mob ties and Jersey lives?
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Yeah, we absolutely have to, so listen. Full disclosure, I
was the producer on the first two seasons of The
Real House Washing New Jersey. My talent that I was
responsible for was Teresa Judais and Dina Manzo, who was
Manziel at the time she was married to Tommy.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Which the interesting thing about all of this.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Is we had two women who are sisters, Dina and Caroline,
that were married to brothers.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Yes, so two sisters.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
I mean a set of sisters married to a set
of brothers, which is like so unheard of.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
So Tommy Manzel is the brother.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Yes, exactly, exactly exactly, that's what it's given.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
What's interesting. What's what's interesting is Tommy Manzel never signed.
Speaker 5 (03:58):
A release to appear on the show, which is unheard
in the Housewives, I guys, and this is season one
of the Real Housewives on New Jersey that debut in
two thousand and nine.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
I would be around him sometimes he avoided the cameras.
We will be at their home, he will avoid the home.
The following season, Dina decided to walk away from the show,
and I believe during that time too, is when she
was on the verge of divorcing Tommy. I had a
(04:36):
little bit of a front row seat into all of this.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
I'll know about his case. I'm sure it makes more
sense to you why he refused to sign the release,
why he avoided the cameras.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Well, now it's starting to make sense. So Judge, I
do have this question for you. Can you explain to
us exactly what occurred, because Tommy Manzeau hired mob people
(05:11):
to attack his ex wife her then boyfriend.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
For what though?
Speaker 1 (05:17):
I think that's the biggest thing, Like, what was the
reason why he decided to do this.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Well, we can't speak for the state of mind of him,
of course, right, but what we can talk about is
what was in the court documents, correct, And so what
was in the documents is that he hired a soldier
from the Lukesey family. And everybody, if you've ever watched
any Mob movies, have heard of the Lucasey family. You know,
(05:46):
there's a family reference to him and the Godfather and
good Fellows and even the Godfather of Harlem. Now, so
this name is very popular. They are one of the
five families in the Mob. So if you have heard
of them, then you know exactly what we are dealing with.
And he hired one of their soldiers basically to intimidate
(06:12):
this woman. And all I can, again from the documents
tell is that he was trying to assert some fear
and intimidation against her. But he is not technically a
part of the mob. And I think that is important
to know. Even though he was avoiding the cameras, even
(06:35):
though he refused to sign the release, he's not a
member of the Lucasey family. He hired a Lucas member
soldier and in exchange for this, he catered a wedding
for him. M yes, yes, what.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Not to stop you just here and he so that
this is the gas It's a gag. Okay.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
So my my rainows are listening are Bravo aholics, Bravo
you know fanatics as well. So the Brownstone is the
Mansoh family catering facility Rangejos remember.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Yoh wow. So he's used the family business to contract
this violence against her, right right. That is how we
got to our mob ties got it because this is
why the federal government even if and you have to understand,
(07:39):
and let's let's clear this up. Even though we're talking
about the housewives, you're not on social media, you are
not in America, and you haven't heard of the record
heering case against Sean Puffy Combe's or Jesse Young Thug Williams.
So many young people don't realize that racketeering. They have
(08:01):
associated that with Young Thug and Sean Tolms. But racketeering
originated with the mafia. It was originally actually passed so
that they could get and prosecute members of the mob. Wow,
(08:23):
which is how they got to the conspiracy and anything
that you do in the act of a criminal act.
That's because it was ever think that catering a waging
is criminal, right, But if just your payment to a
my soldier, now it's a part of the criminal conspiracy.
(08:44):
Got it?
Speaker 4 (08:47):
Let me ask a question because this is sounding like
one of my favorite episodes of the Sopranos.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
Shout out to the Sopranos.
Speaker 4 (08:55):
But when we were going through the exactly when we
were going through the charges, I know, even as we
prepared for this, you made a correction that a lot
is a lot of people are reporting wrong. It wasn't
The indictment didn't come with a clear agreement. Can you
(09:16):
speak to us a little bit about the difference between
a plea agreement and being found guilty or pleading guilty.
Can you speak to us a little bit about so
that way we have a clearer understanding going into some
of the questions that the rain drops in our audience.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Might even have yes, yes, So I heard Carlows when
he spoke and introduced the case. He said he took
a prele deal. As all pleadale is when the defendants
and the prosecutor get together and they come up with
an agreement and say, hey, we have decided if you
enter into a plea of guilty, then this will be
(09:55):
your sentence. That's not what happened in this case. In
this case, he had a two week track. He went
before a jury and they found him guilty. Okay, yes,
which is really And I want to make this note
because I think it's important when we're educating about the
legal system. This is the Justice Department, this is federal law,
(10:18):
and I want people to hear me and be clear
the federal law in trials have a greater than ninety
nine percent success rate. Wow, that means that less than
one percent are quitted. But I think what happened in
this case again is because he is not an actual
(10:41):
member of the mob. He probably felt like, there's no
way I can be convicted a rica because I am
not a member of the mob of the mob. But
the prosecutors were clear in this case. They wanted to
make sure that the message went to the mob and
anyone who was going to conspile with them that if
(11:04):
you get in bed with the mob, rather you are
a member of the mob for not if there's a
criminal activity, you will be held accountable for a conspiracy
under the Rico Act, under the Vicar Act.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
So I have a question for you, because I never
watched the Sopranos. I I know, judge me later, I know,
just mey later, Rain Josh, I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
You know you watch the Wire. Oh, okay, that is
a problem.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
No, guess what I have watched now.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
I'm obsessed with Housewives of New Jersey, the Power Universe,
on Stars.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
It's not the same, it's not the same.
Speaker 4 (12:03):
Disrespectful to them.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
I don't judge. I'm sorry, don't book my black bart.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
But what I will say, don't judge me.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
But you're being judged by the judge.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
And I'm the jury. So no, okay, but we'll deal
with that.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
No, I'm sorry, Okay, we'll deal with that later.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
You're right, But I do have a question. Can you
explain to.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Those who have never heard, uh is the lu Casey family?
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Is that how you pronounce the name family?
Speaker 3 (12:51):
It's lue Casey.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Ok.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Explain to us who the lu Casey family is.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
So the Luca case family is one of the five
families of the mafia. So there are five families that
basically early nineteen hundreds have branded all of organized crime,
and the Luksey family is one of those five families.
And they have had their hands in almost any illegal
(13:23):
activity and corruption that you can think of, from unions
to drugs to trafficking, bribes and a host of other
heinous thinks. So this is a serious family that he
actually got in bed with. And I'm pretty sure that
(13:46):
he was very aware of who he was getting in
bed with. It's the reason he went to them. He
wanted to send a message to that woman to say,
I am going to just let you move on. You're
going to have to deal with me because I have
(14:09):
the mob behind me, and that sends a totally different message.
But the government basically said, that's fine. You think that
you're going to go to family court, but no, you're
gonna have to come see the Justice Department. We're going
to prosecute you whether you are a member of a
mob family or not. And that ended up with him
(14:32):
during several years. And I mean, you said you work
with them for two years. You're pretty familiar with him.
I don't want to, you know, talk about his exact age,
but he's over fifty years oh, you know, so at
fifty years old, you have more years behind you than
in front of you. And the way that we always
(14:53):
said that when I was growing up is seven years
may not seem like a long time to you, especially
for the threat and the violence against her, But at
fifty plus and you miss seven Christmases, think about that,
that's a long time.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
One of the things that has been plaguing social media
right now is the strain between Dina and Caroline because
Caroline allegedly wrote a letter, a character letter on behalf
of her then brother in law that went against her
(15:34):
own sister, Dina, What does that?
Speaker 3 (15:40):
What does that say? In your opinions? Guys?
Speaker 4 (15:45):
What does that say when your own sister kind of
goes against in a in a universe where family is everything,
particularly Italian families are almost as close, if not closer
uh than us in Black families. There is a code
(16:05):
that we live by that family is everything. So when
your own blood sister goes against and writes a character
letter to speak to the man that set up a
violent crime against you and an assault. What do you guys,
(16:27):
how do you guys feel about that? Because that's something
that the rain drops, that's something that our audience has
been posing with the strain between Dina and her sister Caroline.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Yes, I can, I can talk about these sort of
so related issues they've had and and Judge feel free
to talk about anything from the factual standpoint, especially what
us listed in the court documents. What I will say
is this, when we only season one of the Real
House Washing New Jersey, Like I said, it was a
(17:03):
set of sisters married to a set of brothers, Caroline
and Dina have I believe it's nine siblings total, and
I'm a product of ten siblings. And what I will
say is you grow up being the best of friends,
and you grew up being close. We did not see
any friction between Carolina and Dina when we filmed season one.
The infamous scene of season one, the finale where Teresa
(17:27):
July splipped the table. What happened prior to that table flipped,
maybe thirty minutes before, was when Danielle Style accused Dina
of showing this book that had all of Danielle's past
in it, Caroline said, it wasn't my sister, Dina, it
(17:50):
was me. We're thickest bees when it comes to this family, right,
So what happened after that? At the reunion of that
same season, Caroline pride as she was talking compassionately, angrily
(18:10):
to Danielle and says something along the lines of you
know what you did, You know what you did?
Speaker 2 (18:16):
You know what you did.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Rumors world that Caroline was intimating something in regards to
the biological father of Dina's daughter Lexi, and Dina, who's
a very private person, allegedly did not want that out.
When we started season two of The Real House Spots
New Jersey, these two sisters were not close by any
(18:38):
stretch of the imagination. Dina filmed for a week and
quit the show. She came in the show telling the producers,
I will tell my own story. I'm telling you this
story in a week two Max, but I'm out of here.
They have not spoken in years, Dina Caroline. They do
not speak. Their children do not talk. The cousins do
(18:59):
not speak. Dina does not live in Jersey anymore. I'm
not going to disclose her location.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
She is.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
She has decided for herself. These are her words, not mine,
to personally ostracize herself from Caroline's life and some of
his siblings, not all, And she listened to a whole
different location. It was a surprise to the Bravo audience that, yes,
as we know with siblings, you go through your issues.
(19:29):
It was a surprise to the audience that Caroline. But
remember Caroline's husband is Tommy. Yes, is the brother of
Tommy Manzo. And I'm not here to get into the
family drama. I can only assume that when you are
living with your husband and this is your family and
(19:52):
his brother is on trial for at this time allegedly
at the time write the letter, it was alleged allegedly
doing this to your sister her, but you're not speaking
to I don't know what the reason was, but Caroline
did say in the letter she did describe Tommy Manziel
as a kind hearted and caring person. Dina's Manzo's daughter, Lexi,
(20:18):
expressed profound betrayal and confusion, stating that she could not
understand how her aunt would support the man who tormented
her mother. Caroline's son Albi Manzell defended his mother's actions
on his podcast emphasizing that she made an unpopular choice
(20:40):
based on her relationship.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
With Tommy and believed that he was not a threat.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
I think that we also have to look at the
psychological kna. There's no way that we can discuss the
family of two brothers married to two sisters without bringing
in and overlooking the mob times. We have no idea
what Caroline and her husband the pressure that they may
(21:10):
have been under, because you're not just taking on Tommy,
You're taking on the new Hazy family. And I think
that that is nothing that could be overlooked. Likely. I
am not defending her behaviors. Those could have truly been
how she felt and her sentiment towards her brother in law.
But you also have to take into a cow the
(21:33):
pressure mounting against the entire family family. Right, we keep
using this word family. You have the biological family of
the two brothers and the two sisters, but you have
this mob family, right that has and you know, we
(21:54):
have this culture now where they have made snitching, which
don't get me started. I'm a judge. I believe that
telling the truth is a part of what makes the
legal system phenomenal and protects victims. But we're talking about
the culture of a crime family, and so I think
(22:15):
that you can't have that conversation without being fair if
you're not mentioning that there is a crime family in
the background that could have been imposing pressure.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
So my question for you is this, though, judge, if
the luc case family has some sort of involvement, did
they Did somebody from the family get convicted, get arrested?
Any the people who elect the people who I'm sorry,
did the people who violently beat up Dina and.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Her now husband? Are they in jail? Were arrest made?
Are the Lucasey family members in jail? What's going on there?
Speaker 3 (22:59):
So he was a luke Casey family soldier and the
lucase family was not brought into this, which is again
why I brought that up when we were talking about Caroline.
The lu Casey family is going to probably do everything
that they can to make sure that they were not involved.
They wanted to make this a domestic issue versus a
(23:20):
rico issue. And so the actual we will call him
the trigger man, the man who actually committed the act
of the assault, was also convicted, but it had nothing
to do with the lucase family where they actually had
anything to do with it, so the two people who
were actually involved in it. And again I go back
(23:43):
to I think that's why Tommy was really taking this
to trial because a lot of people don't fight the
Justice Department, not with the ninety nine percent win ray,
because if the Justice Department goes to trial, they are
pretty certain of a conviction. But I think that he
was really going to hold on to the fact that
(24:05):
he was not a mob member, but again, he paid
a mob member for the act. This was very dangerous
for everybody involved, right.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
Do you think that's also why Dina has been responding
the way that she has, Like even with the conviction,
when you see and you hear that Teresa reached out
and said justice was served and she just hearted it
like she's been really quiet. Is it because do we
(24:46):
assume it's because she just does not want any more smoke,
she understands the gravity of the family that did these
violent acts. Or is she just in a position now
that she just kind of wants to move on with
her life. No matter what, I believe it's probably all
of it, okay, because you do not go through a
(25:09):
violent act without trauma, right, and as a victim, all
you want to do is put your life together and
move past that.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
But you also made decisions where you do not put
yourself in that same position again. And so I believe
that Dina has probably changed the way that she moves
because she wants a different outcome. She never wants to
put herself in that predicament again. She has probably put
up safeguards to try and avoid that at all costs.
(25:43):
I also think that she definitely has a keen awareness
of what it means to be involved with a mob
family and the reach of a mob family. And again,
my family have long memories, and so Dina is probably
(26:05):
stepping very likely with that. And who could blame her.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Right saying yeah, because listen, I work with Dina. Dina
is a beautiful, sweet woman. She's not confrontational, She's very
fragile in nature. She is the youngest child out of
nine siblings, the youngest, okay. She is extremely close to
(26:37):
her mother, both her parents, and she is just somebody
who again on the show, like she she always tried
to avoid the drama. I mean, she can read you back,
you know, but if pope, she ain't no pump.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
But you gotta be able to hold your own.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Yes, and she's she's she's and funny and she stands
her ground.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
But it breaks my heart to know how viciously she
was attacked.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
And the idea of you walking to your home with
your again your your then boyfriend and it's dark and
you get attacked, and it's hard to talk about, but
the fact that this woman wasn't just tied up. They
viciously attacked, like violently, viciously attacked a woman.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
What I do want to ask you, judge, is this
what evidence did.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
The police department, the government fined to trace this back
to Tommy Manzau and then obviously what now has led
to his conviction.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
So I don't know the specifics of the case. From
that detail, I do that the guy who actually committed
the assault was connected to him and actually found guilty,
and so what I would have to presume is that
there was evidence that led back to him, especially because
(28:17):
the family business was used for the payment payment. Remember
he catered a wedding for him after this vicious attack.
And so the federal government is very good at paper trails,
which is why they have such a huge success rate,
because they are going to always got their eyes and
(28:40):
cross their teeths. So I am sure that they followed
the money, they followed the wedding, they followed the payment
of this guy, because again, Dina is a reality huge
TV star. Yeah, and we would like to believe that
everyone gets the exact same amount of coverage, right, But
(29:04):
we are also smart enough to know that there are
certain people who can bring more light on issues and
an attack against a woman who has beloved in her
community and a TV star is going to push answers
in a different way, right. And so I believe that
(29:25):
the investigation was very robust in finding the evidence that
it needed against the actual guy who committed the assault,
and once they identified him, it let him back led
them back to Timmy Right.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
Let me ask one final question, if I might, do
we think seven years is enough considering the crime?
Speaker 3 (29:52):
Do we feel like seven years.
Speaker 4 (29:55):
Was a slap on the wrist or do we feel
like it's an adequate sentence for the crime that was committed.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
Well, the one thing I think it's important to note
also is that with federal sentencing, there are guidelines that
must be followed, and I think a lot of times
people don't understand that. And so the federal guidelines tell
you what the sentencing will be based on your criminal history,
based on the level of offense, and based on what
(30:27):
you were actually convicted of. So I think that's important
for everybody to know. But I also think that as
someone who deals with this daily, seven days in jail
is a long time. Got Losing your freedom for any
(30:47):
amount of time is a long time. And I don't
want to get too sentimental, but I want you to
really understand that people spend the weekend in jail. They
lose their jobs, which leads to them losing their homes,
which leads to them losing custody of their children. That's
(31:08):
just a weekend. Now we're talking about seven years. Seven years.
I'm not going to speak because I'm going to trust
that the judge in this case followed the federal citizen guidelines.
But what I am going to tell you is that's
not a slap on the wrist. That that is real time. Wow.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Well, judge, thank you so much for taking time out
to really talk to us about this case in a
very captivated way, because Wow, the information that you provided
to us is so paramount and the bigger grand scheme
of things, because again, I know these people. I'm away
(32:01):
at what occurred. I wasn't fully privy to a lot
of the particulars of this case, Dina, Like I said.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
To you for humanizing this, because you know that you
were able to bring that element of intimacy and humanization
to them to make this real, because sometimes people look
at TV personalities and don't believe they're real people. So
kudos to you in Courtney for bringing light to this
(32:32):
to make sure people understand this was a real crime
and it was real trauma that forever changed her life,
and he and his right and.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
His Yeah, so no, so thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
And listen, I know you're busy doing the Lord's work,
but I would love to invite you back for a
future episode because as you are excellent and again as
a TV producer, you know, I think you have a
(33:08):
life from the camera just saying.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
Well, I I believe the community. It is a part,
as you say, of my Lord's work. I've wanted to
be a judge since I was nine years old, and
I always go whenever anybody invites me to talk about
this because I think that a huge part of the
justice system is education, and the more we educate people
(33:33):
about their rights about how the system works, the better
it works. So I cannot thank you enough. My friend
Courtney of course always thinks of me, but I appreciate
you and your comments and having me.
Speaker 4 (33:48):
Thank you, and we're still going to judge, good judge
until he watches the Sopranos and.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
The Wire say the wire first. There we go, There
you go.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
I got my marching artist. Thank you, ladies so much.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
I appreciate you and rang Jos will see you in
the next episode of Reality and Crime Stories with Pritty
Parker and Carlos King.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Thank you all, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Reality with the King is executive produced by me Carlos King,
produced by Lizzie Nimitz, and a partnership.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
With the Lack Effect Network.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
You can also find us on my YouTube channel at
the Carlos King Underscore
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