November 26, 2024 • 38 mins
As of November 2024, recreational cannabis is legal in 24 states and it’s available medically or decriminalized in an additional 20. Clearly, the floodgates have opened, and the normalization of marijuana’s positive efficacy has taken hold. But what do we really know about the effects of pot?
Is there science-based evidence demonstrating what happens after long-term consumption? Is it true that teen emergency room visits are up, suicides and psychotic episodes are up, and schizophrenia is perhaps caused by cannabis? These became very personal questions when Peter realized he had become addicted to cannabis during the pandemic and struggled to stop.
Dr. Bertha Madras, the Director of the Laboratory of Addiction Neurobiology at McLean Hospital, professor of psychobiology at Harvard Medical School and one of nation’s leading experts on marijuana provided answers to all of Jason and Peter’s questions. And if you smoke pot or know someone who does… you may be surprised and shocked by what you’re about to find out. Really, no Really!
IN THIS EPISODE:
- With unprecedented THC levels, marijuana is way more addictive than you think.
- Has cannabis’ use as a pain reliever been oversold?
- Marijuana vs alcohol, the negatives will surprise you.
- Everything in your legally dispensed cannabis you didn’t know about.
- Signs someone you know may be addicted.
- The disturbing connections between schizophrenia and pot.
- Are there definitive studies proving marijuana’s medicinal value?
- The difference between smoking cannabis and edibles.
- Jason’s pot allergy.
- Has the legalization of cannabis set the stage for psychedelics?
- Google-heim: Other legal things we do that are REALLY bad for us!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Really now, really.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Really now, really well and welcome to really know really
with Jason Alexander and Peter Tilden. He remind you that
subscribing to our show gives many listeners they sustained and
euphoric high and speaking of getting high.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
As of November twenty.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Twenty four, recreational cannabis is legal in twenty four states
and is available medically and or decriminalized in an additional
twenty Clearly, the floodgates have opened and the normalization of
marijuana's positive benefits has taken hold.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
But what do we really know about the effects of potts?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Is there science based evidence demonstrating what happens after long
term consumption? Is it true that teen emergency room visits
are up, suicides and psychotic episodes are up, and that
schizophrenia may perhaps be linked to cannabis? These questions became
very personal for us here really know really when co
host Peter Tilden realized he had become addicted to cannabis
(00:58):
during the pandemic. Struggled to stop, and so doctor Bertha Madras,
the director of the Laboratory of Addiction Neurobiology at McLean Hospital,
Professor of Psychobiology, at Harvard Medical School and one of
the nation's leading experts on marijuana, came by to answer
all of Peter and Jason's questions.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
And if you smoke weed or know someone who.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Does, you may be surprised and shocked by what you're
about to find out.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Really, no, really, here's Jason and Peter.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Good Hello, Hello to you, sir.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
You must say good morning, and you finally right because
I realize people, yeah, they also I also know this.
Speaker 5 (01:37):
This is what I've learned after listening to our podcast
for whether we got eighty five in?
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Ready, can I anticipate what you're gonna say?
Speaker 4 (01:43):
Yeah, this will be edited, that's right, So saying it
doesn't matter because no one's hearing.
Speaker 5 (01:47):
We spend minutes doing glorious repartee winds up on somebody's floor.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
You know, we should do glory cuts it right in.
We should do an entireties whatever.
Speaker 5 (01:57):
It is she's against it, and that you insert it
and that way, that's the only way this repartee will
be in the show.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
We should do a very special episode that's just cut
together all the openings, every opening.
Speaker 5 (02:13):
So here's here's my question to you as we start
this episode today about I'm estimating I've lost all sense
of time, but three months ago, maybe a little more.
You hold turkey, you're a marijuana use. You're off, you're done,
You're out.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
To be totally honest. Yeah, I slipped a couple of
times and was upset that I did under ten circumstances, situation,
some stuff.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Yeah, but yeah, I'm out. I'm out. Okay.
Speaker 5 (02:41):
First of all, how was it? How was it getting off?
It's still difficult, still difficult in what way?
Speaker 1 (02:48):
It was a crutch.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
You use it as a crutch, and it helps you
get through the day because you don't have to you
don't have to deal with the stuff that you should
be dealing with. Because it puts you you can nap,
puts you out, You feel a little bit better. The
problem was I was doing it so much that it
was acting not to help me. It was making me nervous.
It was making me jittery, which which was the beginning
(03:10):
of the reason for this episode.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Right, we had somebody on because it was not going
to come for me.
Speaker 5 (03:16):
I'm you know, except for when I drove with a
trunk full of marijuana that could land me in a
federal one.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
Early guests, But what I started realizing, is that the
floodgates have open and they're legalizing this, and as use
goes up, the perception of harmfulness decreases.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
So it becomes it becomes normalized.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
Yeah, And I wondered, because this shows really not really
is there any evidence backed science to this. So I
reached out to one of the nation's top experts on marijuana.
Because you keep hearing reports on emergency room visits, especially
by teens is way through the roof dichotic episodes, schizophrenia.
They don't know what THHC long term can do to
(04:01):
you all kinds of other repercussions. So I want to go,
wait a minute, we should at least know. I'm not
saying you should stop, not stop. I just would like
to know.
Speaker 5 (04:09):
We don't proselytize no, we don't preach no, which is
the same thing.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
By the way, proselytizing and.
Speaker 4 (04:15):
Preaching don't be condescending, which means to talk down to
So I wanted to get an expert on to get
science based knowledge to go, what what do we know
about marijuana at this point and what should be concerned about?
Speaker 1 (04:29):
That's all you just want to know if you can
go back. That's what I think part of the part
of the big, big part of that back a little bit.
Speaker 5 (04:34):
She opens's what's the you know what is the teter totter?
Speaker 1 (04:38):
How much before I start to flag goes down? If
she says go for it.
Speaker 5 (04:44):
Yeah, So and you realize this is I am a
complete non user because I'm allergic to it.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
What do you get when you smoke?
Speaker 5 (04:52):
I had two experiences in high school when you're first
introduced to this stuff. The first time I got I
don't get migrants, but I got what I assume is
like a migraine like headache and hives. I broke out
in hives, and I went, oh, this is awful. I'm
never doing that again. Went to another party a couple
months later and somebody was passing a joint and I
(05:14):
don't think this is I get a thing from this,
and they went, oh, no, that was bad stuff.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
This is the good that's the other thing. This is
the good stuff.
Speaker 5 (05:21):
So I tried this one and worse, worse, migraine, more hives,
and I went, it's a plant.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
I'm allergic to a lot of plans.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
We want to know what the scientists, so hopefully definitive
today we will at least explore the reality of what
they know. Research was right about the positives of pot
if they can measure them. I mean, when you have
a migraine, does a doctor go two joints of sativa?
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Five hits and three hail marys? Yeah, I'm with you totally.
So let's find so, let's find out who our guests today.
Shall we introduce her?
Speaker 5 (05:53):
Why wouldn't we? Why wouldn't we? So you're more familiar
with this lady than I am. I just love her name,
doctor Bertha. I love that name, Doctor Bertha Mandras. Do
a strength, say it loud.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
And it's almost like praying, we can't afford that. I
know that, And it's almost like saying.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
She's a director of the Laboratory of Addiction Neurobiology at
McLean Hospital and is professor of psychobiology at Harvard Medical School,
and she's considered one of the premier leading experts on marijuana.
Speaker 5 (06:24):
Well, let's get high and welcome doctor Bertha Madras.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Hello, doctor Madras.
Speaker 6 (06:30):
Hello, Hello, greetings, tool, thank you.
Speaker 5 (06:33):
Welcome to really know really where Peter is not stoned?
And I'm not sure if you even would rather be
at this point.
Speaker 4 (06:40):
Peter well, again, I really was truly addicted to marijuana.
We've talked about this that I would do it to
go to The setup was I'm doing this to go
to sleep. Yeah, then it's I'm doing it dinner time.
Then I'm doing it at lunchtime. Then I'm doing it
to kind of dull out any aggravation that I have
to do.
Speaker 5 (06:55):
You're basically explaining how I use cake exactly the same thing.
Speaker 4 (06:59):
So why don't we turn it over to you? Because
you've researched it. What have you found? What do we know?
Speaker 1 (07:04):
What do we know for sure?
Speaker 6 (07:07):
Well, first of all, the first myth that I would
love people to hear about is it's only a plant.
That's what you hear commonly among kids, among users and
saying it's nature's own sedative, it's nature's own sleep medicine,
it's nature's own So let me just give you a
little bit of background. They're over three hundred thousand plants
(07:30):
on this earth, and humans consume only about three hundred
of those three hundred thousand. And the reason we consume
only a few of the many that we have a
choice is because most plants are poisonous to human beings.
Why is that the case is because plants don't have teeth,
(07:51):
they don't have fists, they don't have legs to run away,
they have no protection, so they produce substances that can
disable the people, the humans, the animals, and the insects
that consume them. Now, marijuana happens to have in it
THHC delta nine tetrahydrocannabinol, which is a psychoactive compound that
(08:15):
interferes with normal brain communication. And it is likely, because
an experiment was done recently in India, it is likely
that the plant uses THHC to interfere with the nervous
system of things that consume it, and so it is
(08:35):
probably one of marijuana's protective factors. Wow, it's as simple
as that. Now, the thing that I would love to
emphasize here is the number of parents, the number of
young people, adolescents, young adults that have told me over
and over again, if only I knew before they went
(08:58):
down the path that led them to addiction, psychosis, loss
of motivation. I can go on and on.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
All right, So let's talk about the medicinal benefits. Do
we know scientifically? Do we know long term effects?
Speaker 5 (09:15):
So if there are definitive positive uses for marijuana.
Speaker 6 (09:20):
Okay, so there are no definitive studies that provide evidence
that marijuana the smoke plant has any strong medicinal benefits period.
All the meta analyzes, all the papers say that it
may be a mild pain reducing substance. It may induce sleep,
(09:47):
but it also could promote sleep disorders eventually with chronic use,
and so on and so forth. It may prevent vomiting,
but after very high dose frequent use, it can promote vomiting.
Cannabis hyper emesis syndrome is not frequent, but people have
(10:09):
these symptoms. They have to go to emergency departments. They
have to take hot showers to get rid of them.
Almost every therapeutic benefit that has been touted for marijuana,
first of all, does not have potent, high quality signs
behind it. And alternatives exist that are generally safer than marijuana.
Speaker 5 (10:33):
And doctor Anders, does that include the reported pain relief
benefits of use.
Speaker 6 (10:40):
The reported pain reliefs We don't even have side by
side comparisons with over the counter medications like ibuprofen or
other non steroid lantine flammatories. But marijuana is a very
mild pain reducing substance, and people began to promote it
(11:03):
in the early twenty twenty twenties as a substitute for
the opioid crisis, and that was pure, pure fiction. It
does not substitute for opiods. It cannot reduce pain to
the extent that opioids do, and the alternatives that are
over the counter are much safe.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
Alcohol metabolize a certain way in the system. Does how
does THC or And when I say TFC, I understand
there are like three hundred chemicals in marijuana if you
can address that, but how does it metabolize? What happens
when somebody takes it in as a posed alcohol the
comparison there.
Speaker 6 (11:42):
There are over seven hundred chemicals in the marijuana plant
and over one hundred and seven cannabinoids that the marijuana
plant produces. The primary ones are THHC and cannabidiol. When
a person consumes marijuana, the the thing you have to
know is the chemistry of THHC is completely different than alcohol.
(12:07):
Alcohol is a substance that dissolves in fat. It dissolves
in water, so within one to two hours, depending on
what you've eaten, alcohol clears from the body. So one
during per hour, one drink every two hours, and the
effects are gone. Because marijuana's chemistry is such that it's
(12:28):
very fatty. It loves to stick in fat, it dissolves
in fat. The brain is a fatty organ The brain
uses fats to insulate its wires so that it doesn't
get wiring mixed up. Marijuana accumulates in the brain and
it can last for at least eight to twenty four
(12:51):
hours before it clears entirely. Heavy users you can still
detect THHC in their blood after three to four weeks
because it's going to be absorbed by the fat and
it'll be slowly, slowly leached out.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
Well, and now you said there's seven hundred chemicals in
the plant. Yes, And it was wondering with today's regulations.
Is it regulated to the point that when you go
to a dispensary and you buy something that you know
that there's some kind of quality assurance to it or
is that complete nonsense?
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Does that mean nothing still the wild West?
Speaker 6 (13:30):
Complete nonsense? There are regulations in place, for example, in California,
where you are somebody. A study was just done analyzing
samples of marijuana from dispensaries. They found pesticide they found her. Besides,
(13:50):
they've found all kinds of junk in the marijuana, and
they and other studies have shown that the PERCENTHC that's
on the labels is completely fiction. In some cases, it's
very very rarely accurate. It's either they either toute that
(14:11):
it has more THHC than the present or much less
thchc than it's actually present in what you buy. The
regulations are sound ideal, they're fictitious in terms of reduced
to practice, costs a lot of money to analyze every dispensary,
every sample, and a lot of states are not doing
(14:33):
due diligence.
Speaker 5 (14:35):
So dog I wanted to ask a question in regard
to the addictiveness of this how addictive or not is
this substance?
Speaker 7 (14:43):
Well, it's very interesting and I'm smiling because the statistics
are coming out now that are so I mean, they're
almost astonishing, but for me they probably shouldn't be. Right now,
some of the best epidemiologists in the country have reported
(15:06):
that twenty nine percent of people who use marijuana, either
for recreational purposes or for medical purposes, have a cannabis
use disorder.
Speaker 6 (15:21):
A third of the people. Now, why is that so
because people using it for so called medicinal purposes are
using daily or five times daily or ten times daily.
And the risks of becoming addicted to marijuana increase depending
on how frequently you use. So if you use daily,
(15:44):
the risks are about thirty to fifty percent.
Speaker 5 (15:48):
And when you have this condition that you're addicted to it,
what are the signs of that?
Speaker 1 (15:53):
What are the symptoms of that?
Speaker 6 (15:55):
Well, the symptoms are standard symptoms for use disorder substance disorders.
It means not meeting commitments. It means being disinterested in
in uh in things and things that you normally are.
It means trying to quit and being unable to quit frequently.
(16:18):
There are eleven criteria for for substance use disorders. The
interesting thing is somebody in UH in the National Survey
and Drug Use in Health compared the symptoms of alcohol
used disorder with cannabis use disorder and they've found that
(16:39):
the symptoms that are categorized as more moderate in this
moderate to severe category are higher for marijuana than for alcohol.
And alcohol there are more numbers of people in the
mild to moderate range.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
Wow, So when I used it and was really using
it a lot, I started having anxiety, I started to
have disinterest. I started also aggression, like I would snap.
My personality change. And now I hear that er visits
are up, especially among young people with psychosis suicidal planning.
(17:17):
I mean that is that accurate? And to what extent
what percentage of marijuanas can be attributed to that?
Speaker 6 (17:24):
Well, psychosis has been a very controversial issue until I
think the data that has come in in the past
ten years. So psychosis, as you know, there's there's many
causes of psychosis. Some of them are and some of
them could be metabolic, some are drug induced, and so on.
(17:47):
But the association between psychosis, schizophrenia which means an enduring psychosis,
and marijuana is getting so strong that more and more
people are claiming that it's a cause of schizophrenia, not
just an association. That's right, And why is that? First
(18:10):
of all, it's dose response. The more you use, the
more frequently you use, the more likely you have to
develop schizophrenia. Secondly, in seven countries at least where they
have looked at people with early onset marijuana use, the
risks of developing schizophrenia are higher that if you never
(18:32):
touched marijuana during your young young adolescent or a young adult. So,
and there's a six criteria for causality and marijuana, I
think fulfills at least five of those.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Do you guys?
Speaker 4 (18:47):
As I'm listening to this, all I'm hearing is like
from my past of bringing this stuff up. Oh, these
guys have an agenda. They went into this for a reason.
Did you get into this one any kind of agenda?
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Number one?
Speaker 4 (18:58):
And number two? What kind ofushback do you get? Because
you must get pushback.
Speaker 6 (19:03):
So, first of all, agenda, I am not a drug user.
I don't use alcohol. It's not that I have an
aversion to alcohol. It's that I simply don't. I just
fall asleep with it. So there's no point in missing
the party if you're going to go to sleep, right.
(19:24):
I have always observed when I was a kid, I
observed what happens to people using drugs. And in my childhood,
which was one hundred years ago, we had one or
two kids who started using marijuana and they went downhill
very fast, and I was stunned by that. That didn't
(19:45):
inject into me a passion about it until I was
a graduate student and I started to I was asked
to try to find out how LSD works, and I
started to read the literature on psychiatry uses of LSD,
and they were malevolent the effects of LSD, And gradually
(20:07):
I became more and more interested in trying to protect
the human brain. My real passion is the magnificence of
the human brain. It's the one thing that makes us human.
It's the repository of our humanity, and drugs can interfere
with normal human brain function and derail people's potential. That
(20:30):
became my motivation, and after that I volunteered. I am
not in the payroll of anyone whatsoever.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
So what about the pushback.
Speaker 6 (20:43):
The pushback I've received?
Speaker 1 (20:56):
So what about the pushback.
Speaker 6 (20:59):
The push back I've received? Obviously, the drug policy alliance
of people who are users, reporters and the media who
are users. Many people who use casually have no consequences,
and so they say, because I personally have no consequences,
(21:21):
there is nothing wrong with the drug. That's not how
science works. Science works on the basis of epidemiology. They
look at vast numbers of people. They look at the
consequences to vast numbers of people, not to individuals. That's
how the FDA works when it approves drugs. It doesn't
go up to a person with a microphone and interviews
(21:43):
them and says, did marijuana make you feel good? And
did it reduce your pain? Okay, then will approve it. No,
it works on the basis of statistics and vast numbers
of people. And so the science is on the side
of what I'm saying. Because I'm just quoting manuscript after manuscript,
(22:04):
each one of which I can send you the citations, right,
but I've had pushback. It doesn't bother me because basically
my foundation, my base is data, and the data disclaims
some of the folks who are heavy lifetime users.
Speaker 5 (22:26):
What I'm hearing anecdotally from people now, both users and
people in your profession. The catchphrase is, you know, the
pot today is not your grandfather's pot. Are growers and
distributors actually trying to grow more powerful strains of marijuana?
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Why has it become so much more it's.
Speaker 6 (22:48):
Much more powerful? Of course they are.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
You know.
Speaker 6 (22:52):
There's a very well known principle in biology that the
faster a drug gets into the brain and stronger the hit,
meaning the higher the dose, the addictive potential goes up.
Now everybody in drug industry, alcohol, tobacco, marijuana, they all
(23:15):
know a verius and cocaine opioids. They know a very
simple principle. The more powerful the drug, the more you
get people addicted. The more people are addicted, the more
you have a cache of people who are chronic users,
who are going to be your main source of profit.
(23:38):
And that's basically what it is. So in the sixties
and seventies, the concentration of THHC in the marijuana plant
was anywhere from believe it or not, as low as
one percent up to four or five percent with hashiesh
it is now bred to be about twenty percent THC
(24:02):
and dabs and shatters, which is an increasing market share,
which is highly concentrated THHC can be up to ninety
percent THC.
Speaker 5 (24:15):
I just want to ask you about the other popular
component of marijuana, CBD. Are there similar Are there? There
seems to be in cosmetics and sleep aids and different
kinds of things pain relief, topical pain relief. Is CBD
a different story altogether or or there are also problems
with that.
Speaker 6 (24:35):
CBD is an entirely different story in terms of it
is non addictive, It does not have psychoactive properties. It
does not intoxicate you. It functions in ways that are cryptic.
People really don't quite know how it works. From that
(24:57):
point of view, it's much safer. The problem with CBD
is that it can also have drug interactions with other
medications that you take. That's a problem, and there is
some evidence of liver toxicity. The thing that is really
(25:17):
disconcerting is that it's being marketed under false premises because
there is a claim that it is a painkiller. The
evidence is very weak. There's a claim that it puts
you to sleep. The evidence is very weak. It can
be sedating, but it's not a good sleep aid. And
(25:37):
yet it seems to have taken hold. People are buying
it like the droves and making all kinds of claims
that have no basis in science.
Speaker 4 (25:48):
Are you completely disconcerted about the fact that the ship
has sailed? Do you feel like there's that we can't
take it back, that we don't have long term studies?
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Where are we? Where are we as far as regulation,
as far as getting the information out in the right way.
Speaker 6 (26:05):
Well, there are three things to say about that. Number
one is there is beginning to be pushback and for
the first time. The New York Times, which has been
touting marijuana much of the mainstream media, has promoted the
drug is safe, non addictive, and effective. For the first time,
you're beginning to see articles the mainstream media that are
(26:30):
that are beginning to describe the negative effects of marijuana.
Second thing we have to say is that given the
tobacco and alcohol industry is a model, once you have
massive dollars involved, billions of dollars that go into campaign
coffers of politicians, it's very hard to reverse a movement
(26:56):
because there's so much money involved. I'm very concerned learned
about that. I would love to see a reversal of
the mess we've made with marijuana, conflating it with medicine
and recreation. We've eroded the FDA, We've done everything wrong
in our country with regard to how we've handled this drug.
(27:16):
The third issue that I'm worried about is that the
same playbook that has been used for marijuana is being
used for hallucinogen psychedelics. And I'm extremely worried about that
because i know what happened to a lot of people
in the nineteen sixties and seventies, and I'm praying that
(27:37):
it doesn't happen again.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
If you're having to use it.
Speaker 5 (27:42):
Is there a benefit to edibles rather than smoking the edibles?
Speaker 6 (27:47):
There's different reasons for people going into emergency rooms with
edibles versus smokeables. And because the edibles don't kick in
until a few hours, because it takes long for digestion
to absorb the thh scene, they get it into the
partiovascular system. We are seeing more cases of edibles giving
(28:13):
rise to different types of problems than smoking. Smoking is
associated more with psychosis. Edibles are associated more with other
types of symptoms and emergency departments.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
And secondhand exposure.
Speaker 5 (28:30):
I'm a complete non user, so when I'm around people
using it, or I'm in a club or a stadium,
how much am I being affected by it?
Speaker 6 (28:38):
Well, there's some evidence that secondhand smoke can get into
your blood system and give you a positive The evidence
on whether or not it becomes intoxicating or not is
not as robust unless you're sitting in a car and
just everybody is smoking it and you're not where the smoke.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Density is very high.
Speaker 6 (28:58):
But I would say the evidence still is not robust
enough to make claims.
Speaker 5 (29:03):
All right, last question for me solve my teenage mystery.
I've tried marijuana twice when I was a teenager back
in the seventies. Each time I got a migraine in hives.
Does that mean I'm allergic to the plant.
Speaker 6 (29:17):
It's hard to know, but you may be allergic to
the fun guys that were growing on it.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Here you go, Just don't use it. Just say no,
Just say no to hive. Hey, you're not the boss
of me. And by the way, you're riding with Cheech
and Chong in a car. Yes, I'm going to get
at the secondhand.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
Doctor Matters, Thank you so much. And by the way,
today you can google her and see the papers and
see her talked on this and get some other information
that maybe we didn't get. But I just thought it
was important and I will probably get a lot of pushback,
but I just wanted to know the science, the science
behind this.
Speaker 6 (29:48):
There's one more science that I didn't mention that i'd
left to before I sure run off. This was just
published this week.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
Now.
Speaker 6 (29:55):
I've been saying this for at least fifteen years because
of some of the scientific papers that are coming out.
But now someone did what's called a meta analysis. They
accumulated all the papers on this particular topic that included
one hundred thousand adolescents, and they found what I've been
saying for fifteen years. Raids are lower. Dropout rates in
(30:20):
high school are much higher. College applications, college entries, college
completions are all much lower. On kids who use marijuana
in high school, their whole academic future is very much
compromised by using marijuana in high school.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (30:42):
Not a great statistic. Well, thank you for coming on.
Oh my gosh, we appreciate it your time. And by
the way, mostly I might say, you have a lovely family, lovely, lovely.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Oh my god, they'll kill me.
Speaker 4 (30:55):
They'll he'll be thrilled. Thank you so much again, thanks
for your time. I know how busy you are.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
Carefull that.
Speaker 5 (31:10):
So two things I know. One is I'm much healthier
than you because my brain is fine. So whenever we
have a discussion, I win because my brain is healthier,
my body is healthier. That's the first thing agreed.
Speaker 4 (31:23):
Are we agreed on that you have so many other
problems rather than the smoking. My brain is healthier.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
No, my brain is healthier, my body is healthy.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
It's based on the fact that you don't do pot.
My brain is healthier, I'm smarter, I'm more vigorous. Yes,
good luck. Okay, you know what, you live in a
delusional world. God bless you.
Speaker 5 (31:41):
Second thing, we know she's got a lovely home. We
saw so many things and then we started in the
upstairs that was no good. Then we moved into the
sunniest sun room I've ever seen. It looked like like,
you know, the Messiah was rising behind her.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
Not doing drugs helps you with thing schweish you had
a beautiful.
Speaker 5 (32:01):
Beautiful And then we went over and as you say,
a lovely family, my.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Family, which means a lot. By the way, nobody that
family had their hairspe.
Speaker 5 (32:08):
And I'll tell you something else. The woman is doing
very well. I'm just saying, you know, I'm wondering if.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
Three of the kids are basically private in the background
there my mother out of my mind.
Speaker 5 (32:22):
I'm psychotic and I'm not How does how does a
guy seriously, based on what we just learned, how does
a guy like Snoop or Seth Rogan, who admittedly are
habitual user, how are they so productive?
Speaker 1 (32:36):
How are they so I don't know?
Speaker 4 (32:40):
How does Willie Nelson do it for eight thousand years
and he's one hundred years old. Some people some people
just Richard's still alive. It doesn't Some people, I guess
have good DNA. It's a different DNA. Wow, I had
the I had the migraine and hive. Where they're biting
or they're buying, there's a strain we don't know about.
They just you know they're sharing among these it's like
(33:00):
money where they share information.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
They may have a strength. Yeah, they may. Are you happy? Now?
Speaker 5 (33:04):
Do you feel good that you are using yourself off?
Do you feel Vindegan? What I'm what I'm not happy about?
Speaker 4 (33:09):
If if what she said is accurate, which, by the way,
why wouldn't we think it was accurate based science?
Speaker 5 (33:14):
Well, she's only talking about I mean, she may or
may not have a prejudice.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
Is she personally like me?
Speaker 5 (33:20):
I'm a teetotal I do not touch this stuff, but
I'm not against it.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
I don't I don't prosthlytize.
Speaker 4 (33:26):
This is what I did, and I saw the effect
of it, and I thought, if that's the effect on me,
and we're reading the study, Yeah, what's the effect.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
On the United States?
Speaker 4 (33:35):
Now you have John Banner, the X speaker of the
house is working for a big organization that's pushing, you know,
that's selling and lobbying and whatever. So it's we've come
full circle. And is that surprising to you? John Baner
was always cigarette.
Speaker 5 (33:49):
If John John Banner during his tenure, if he wasn't
taking something, I don't know how the man survived.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
He was always danny. He played golf a lot too.
Speaker 4 (33:55):
Yeah, David Grubenheim, what do we got marijuana now?
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Is in the well?
Speaker 8 (34:01):
I would say it's an exclusive bluff, but not really.
It's the club of things that Americans do that are
bad for us and we just don't care.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
And not just Americans, but yes, that's true. It's global.
Speaker 8 (34:13):
Global Hamburgers, hamburger, How many hamburgers do.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
You eat a week?
Speaker 1 (34:20):
A week?
Speaker 5 (34:21):
A week, you'd have to go a month, maybe one
a month.
Speaker 8 (34:26):
Average consumption of hamburgers by Americans is three a week.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
And that's bad. No, it's great.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
How much? How about how about soda?
Speaker 1 (34:41):
How about soda? Soda is a chronic problem in this country.
I do know that.
Speaker 8 (34:44):
How many gallons does the average American consume each year?
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Well? Are we talking badlands?
Speaker 3 (34:52):
Uh? Average average?
Speaker 4 (34:56):
I don't know, but my wife my wife is My
wife is addicted to die coke, which drives me crazy.
I don't know how many gallons, Laura, do you produce it?
Where do you drink soda?
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Soda? No, I don't drink soda. I drink water. Oh,
there you go.
Speaker 5 (35:09):
I drink sparkling water, which I guess is soda. But
it doesn't have the syrups and the sugars.
Speaker 6 (35:14):
But it has a lot of sodium.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Has a lot of sodium.
Speaker 5 (35:16):
Yeah, And I just I would imagine the average the
person who drinks soda is probably drinking minimum two to
three glasses per day.
Speaker 4 (35:26):
Oh, I'm thinking more so, I'm thinking thirty five gallons
a year. I'm just putting a number.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
I'll go ahead, forty gallons.
Speaker 3 (35:32):
Whoa about forty gallons a year.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
A year of soda? Yeah, gotta wash it on the hamburgers. Yeah.
Speaker 8 (35:38):
We actually this country, we're actually in going in the
right direction. In two thousand, oh, we hit our high
at fifty three gallons.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
So we're coming down, coming down. Yeah, good guy, just
because it got expensive. That's yah. Well you know I
was switching the pot.
Speaker 5 (35:56):
Yeah yeah, Well thanks, all right, So that's it.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
You're done with the that's it.
Speaker 4 (36:01):
Oh yeah, after we.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Heard today, can I tell you something? I just want
to see if I get another hive? All right, I'll
give you all this stuff. I'm not smoking.
Speaker 4 (36:10):
My other allergies change. I got a ton of pots
that I'm not using. Come on over, you got I
still got the a bag of renning may want to
get rid of that. No, I'm gonna use it for
a barbeerge what are you waiting for to come over?
A smoke fish with it? And thank you for being
with us.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Thank you everybody, Good luck out the Thank you producer, Laura,
Thank you, Laura's in the window high. I wish she's
saying he's got She's got the house. No Really.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
As another episode of Really No Really comes to a close,
I know you're wondering, what are some other things about
marijuana that most people don't know? Well, I'll give you
the read on weed in a moment. The first let's
thank our guest, doctor Bertha Madress. You can follow doctor
maddress on x where she is at Madres Underscore Bertha
our little shell hangs out on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, and
(36:57):
threads at Really No Really Podcast, And of course you
can share your thoughts and feedback with us online.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
At reallynoreled dot com.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
Check out our full episodes on YouTube, hit that subscribe
button and take that bell so you're updated when we
release new videos and episodes, which we do each Tuesday.
So listen and follow us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts. And now the answer
to the question, what are some other things about weed
that most people don't know? Well? Some colleges in the
(37:25):
United States, including ones in Vermont, Oregon, and California, offer
classes on how.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
To cultivate cannabis.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
So yes, you can get an actual degree in ganja.
It's also possible that men and women absorb marijuana differently.
A twenty fourteen study looked at how male and female
rats responded to cannabis. The researchers found that the female
rats were more sensitive to the pain relieving qualities of cannabis. However,
the females were also more likely to become a nerd
to the medicinal and psychotrophic effects of cannabis and possibly
(37:55):
more susceptible to the negative side effects too. And lastly,
at present, the cannabis market bost seventy one million users
in the USA alone, almost fifty percent use it daily,
and the industry has greeted four hundred and twenty eight
thousand jobs.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
And yet I continue to labor here, underpaid and distinctly sober.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
BRILLIONA really is a production of iHeartRadio and Blase Entertainment.
Really now, really.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Really now, really well and welcome to really know really
with Jason Alexander and Peter Tilden. He remind you that
subscribing to our show gives many listeners they sustained and
euphoric high and speaking of getting high.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
As of November twenty.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Twenty four, recreational cannabis is legal in twenty four states
and is available medically and or decriminalized in an additional
twenty Clearly, the floodgates have opened and the normalization of
marijuana's positive benefits has taken hold.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
But what do we really know about the effects of potts?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Is there science based evidence demonstrating what happens after long
term consumption? Is it true that teen emergency room visits
are up, suicides and psychotic episodes are up, and that
schizophrenia may perhaps be linked to cannabis? These questions became
very personal for us here really know really when co
host Peter Tilden realized he had become addicted to cannabis
(00:58):
during the pandemic. Struggled to stop, and so doctor Bertha Madras,
the director of the Laboratory of Addiction Neurobiology at McLean Hospital,
Professor of Psychobiology, at Harvard Medical School and one of
the nation's leading experts on marijuana, came by to answer
all of Peter and Jason's questions.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
And if you smoke weed or know someone who.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Does, you may be surprised and shocked by what you're
about to find out.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Really, no, really, here's Jason and Peter.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Good Hello, Hello to you, sir.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
You must say good morning, and you finally right because
I realize people, yeah, they also I also know this.
Speaker 5 (01:37):
This is what I've learned after listening to our podcast
for whether we got eighty five in?
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Ready, can I anticipate what you're gonna say?
Speaker 4 (01:43):
Yeah, this will be edited, that's right, So saying it
doesn't matter because no one's hearing.
Speaker 5 (01:47):
We spend minutes doing glorious repartee winds up on somebody's floor.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
You know, we should do glory cuts it right in.
We should do an entireties whatever.
Speaker 5 (01:57):
It is she's against it, and that you insert it
and that way, that's the only way this repartee will
be in the show.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
We should do a very special episode that's just cut
together all the openings, every opening.
Speaker 5 (02:13):
So here's here's my question to you as we start
this episode today about I'm estimating I've lost all sense
of time, but three months ago, maybe a little more.
You hold turkey, you're a marijuana use. You're off, you're done,
You're out.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
To be totally honest. Yeah, I slipped a couple of
times and was upset that I did under ten circumstances, situation,
some stuff.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Yeah, but yeah, I'm out. I'm out. Okay.
Speaker 5 (02:41):
First of all, how was it? How was it getting off?
It's still difficult, still difficult in what way?
Speaker 1 (02:48):
It was a crutch.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
You use it as a crutch, and it helps you
get through the day because you don't have to you
don't have to deal with the stuff that you should
be dealing with. Because it puts you you can nap,
puts you out, You feel a little bit better. The
problem was I was doing it so much that it
was acting not to help me. It was making me nervous.
It was making me jittery, which which was the beginning
(03:10):
of the reason for this episode.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Right, we had somebody on because it was not going
to come for me.
Speaker 5 (03:16):
I'm you know, except for when I drove with a
trunk full of marijuana that could land me in a
federal one.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
Early guests, But what I started realizing, is that the
floodgates have open and they're legalizing this, and as use
goes up, the perception of harmfulness decreases.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
So it becomes it becomes normalized.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
Yeah, And I wondered, because this shows really not really
is there any evidence backed science to this. So I
reached out to one of the nation's top experts on marijuana.
Because you keep hearing reports on emergency room visits, especially
by teens is way through the roof dichotic episodes, schizophrenia.
They don't know what THHC long term can do to
(04:01):
you all kinds of other repercussions. So I want to go,
wait a minute, we should at least know. I'm not
saying you should stop, not stop. I just would like
to know.
Speaker 5 (04:09):
We don't proselytize no, we don't preach no, which is
the same thing.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
By the way, proselytizing and.
Speaker 4 (04:15):
Preaching don't be condescending, which means to talk down to
So I wanted to get an expert on to get
science based knowledge to go, what what do we know
about marijuana at this point and what should be concerned about?
Speaker 1 (04:29):
That's all you just want to know if you can
go back. That's what I think part of the part
of the big, big part of that back a little bit.
Speaker 5 (04:34):
She opens's what's the you know what is the teter totter?
Speaker 1 (04:38):
How much before I start to flag goes down? If
she says go for it.
Speaker 5 (04:44):
Yeah, So and you realize this is I am a
complete non user because I'm allergic to it.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
What do you get when you smoke?
Speaker 5 (04:52):
I had two experiences in high school when you're first
introduced to this stuff. The first time I got I
don't get migrants, but I got what I assume is
like a migraine like headache and hives. I broke out
in hives, and I went, oh, this is awful. I'm
never doing that again. Went to another party a couple
months later and somebody was passing a joint and I
(05:14):
don't think this is I get a thing from this,
and they went, oh, no, that was bad stuff.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
This is the good that's the other thing. This is
the good stuff.
Speaker 5 (05:21):
So I tried this one and worse, worse, migraine, more hives,
and I went, it's a plant.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
I'm allergic to a lot of plans.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
We want to know what the scientists, so hopefully definitive
today we will at least explore the reality of what
they know. Research was right about the positives of pot
if they can measure them. I mean, when you have
a migraine, does a doctor go two joints of sativa?
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Five hits and three hail marys? Yeah, I'm with you totally.
So let's find so, let's find out who our guests today.
Shall we introduce her?
Speaker 5 (05:53):
Why wouldn't we? Why wouldn't we? So you're more familiar
with this lady than I am. I just love her name,
doctor Bertha. I love that name, Doctor Bertha Mandras. Do
a strength, say it loud.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
And it's almost like praying, we can't afford that. I
know that, And it's almost like saying.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
She's a director of the Laboratory of Addiction Neurobiology at
McLean Hospital and is professor of psychobiology at Harvard Medical School,
and she's considered one of the premier leading experts on marijuana.
Speaker 5 (06:24):
Well, let's get high and welcome doctor Bertha Madras.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Hello, doctor Madras.
Speaker 6 (06:30):
Hello, Hello, greetings, tool, thank you.
Speaker 5 (06:33):
Welcome to really know really where Peter is not stoned?
And I'm not sure if you even would rather be
at this point.
Speaker 4 (06:40):
Peter well, again, I really was truly addicted to marijuana.
We've talked about this that I would do it to
go to The setup was I'm doing this to go
to sleep. Yeah, then it's I'm doing it dinner time.
Then I'm doing it at lunchtime. Then I'm doing it
to kind of dull out any aggravation that I have
to do.
Speaker 5 (06:55):
You're basically explaining how I use cake exactly the same thing.
Speaker 4 (06:59):
So why don't we turn it over to you? Because
you've researched it. What have you found? What do we know?
Speaker 1 (07:04):
What do we know for sure?
Speaker 6 (07:07):
Well, first of all, the first myth that I would
love people to hear about is it's only a plant.
That's what you hear commonly among kids, among users and
saying it's nature's own sedative, it's nature's own sleep medicine,
it's nature's own So let me just give you a
little bit of background. They're over three hundred thousand plants
(07:30):
on this earth, and humans consume only about three hundred
of those three hundred thousand. And the reason we consume
only a few of the many that we have a
choice is because most plants are poisonous to human beings.
Why is that the case is because plants don't have teeth,
(07:51):
they don't have fists, they don't have legs to run away,
they have no protection, so they produce substances that can
disable the people, the humans, the animals, and the insects
that consume them. Now, marijuana happens to have in it
THHC delta nine tetrahydrocannabinol, which is a psychoactive compound that
(08:15):
interferes with normal brain communication. And it is likely, because
an experiment was done recently in India, it is likely
that the plant uses THHC to interfere with the nervous
system of things that consume it, and so it is
(08:35):
probably one of marijuana's protective factors. Wow, it's as simple
as that. Now, the thing that I would love to
emphasize here is the number of parents, the number of
young people, adolescents, young adults that have told me over
and over again, if only I knew before they went
(08:58):
down the path that led them to addiction, psychosis, loss
of motivation. I can go on and on.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
All right, So let's talk about the medicinal benefits. Do
we know scientifically? Do we know long term effects?
Speaker 5 (09:15):
So if there are definitive positive uses for marijuana.
Speaker 6 (09:20):
Okay, so there are no definitive studies that provide evidence
that marijuana the smoke plant has any strong medicinal benefits period.
All the meta analyzes, all the papers say that it
may be a mild pain reducing substance. It may induce sleep,
(09:47):
but it also could promote sleep disorders eventually with chronic use,
and so on and so forth. It may prevent vomiting,
but after very high dose frequent use, it can promote vomiting.
Cannabis hyper emesis syndrome is not frequent, but people have
(10:09):
these symptoms. They have to go to emergency departments. They
have to take hot showers to get rid of them.
Almost every therapeutic benefit that has been touted for marijuana,
first of all, does not have potent, high quality signs
behind it. And alternatives exist that are generally safer than marijuana.
Speaker 5 (10:33):
And doctor Anders, does that include the reported pain relief
benefits of use.
Speaker 6 (10:40):
The reported pain reliefs We don't even have side by
side comparisons with over the counter medications like ibuprofen or
other non steroid lantine flammatories. But marijuana is a very
mild pain reducing substance, and people began to promote it
(11:03):
in the early twenty twenty twenties as a substitute for
the opioid crisis, and that was pure, pure fiction. It
does not substitute for opiods. It cannot reduce pain to
the extent that opioids do, and the alternatives that are
over the counter are much safe.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
Alcohol metabolize a certain way in the system. Does how
does THC or And when I say TFC, I understand
there are like three hundred chemicals in marijuana if you
can address that, but how does it metabolize? What happens
when somebody takes it in as a posed alcohol the
comparison there.
Speaker 6 (11:42):
There are over seven hundred chemicals in the marijuana plant
and over one hundred and seven cannabinoids that the marijuana
plant produces. The primary ones are THHC and cannabidiol. When
a person consumes marijuana, the the thing you have to
know is the chemistry of THHC is completely different than alcohol.
(12:07):
Alcohol is a substance that dissolves in fat. It dissolves
in water, so within one to two hours, depending on
what you've eaten, alcohol clears from the body. So one
during per hour, one drink every two hours, and the
effects are gone. Because marijuana's chemistry is such that it's
(12:28):
very fatty. It loves to stick in fat, it dissolves
in fat. The brain is a fatty organ The brain
uses fats to insulate its wires so that it doesn't
get wiring mixed up. Marijuana accumulates in the brain and
it can last for at least eight to twenty four
(12:51):
hours before it clears entirely. Heavy users you can still
detect THHC in their blood after three to four weeks
because it's going to be absorbed by the fat and
it'll be slowly, slowly leached out.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
Well, and now you said there's seven hundred chemicals in
the plant. Yes, And it was wondering with today's regulations.
Is it regulated to the point that when you go
to a dispensary and you buy something that you know
that there's some kind of quality assurance to it or
is that complete nonsense?
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Does that mean nothing still the wild West?
Speaker 6 (13:30):
Complete nonsense? There are regulations in place, for example, in California,
where you are somebody. A study was just done analyzing
samples of marijuana from dispensaries. They found pesticide they found her. Besides,
(13:50):
they've found all kinds of junk in the marijuana, and
they and other studies have shown that the PERCENTHC that's
on the labels is completely fiction. In some cases, it's
very very rarely accurate. It's either they either toute that
(14:11):
it has more THHC than the present or much less
thchc than it's actually present in what you buy. The
regulations are sound ideal, they're fictitious in terms of reduced
to practice, costs a lot of money to analyze every dispensary,
every sample, and a lot of states are not doing
(14:33):
due diligence.
Speaker 5 (14:35):
So dog I wanted to ask a question in regard
to the addictiveness of this how addictive or not is
this substance?
Speaker 7 (14:43):
Well, it's very interesting and I'm smiling because the statistics
are coming out now that are so I mean, they're
almost astonishing, but for me they probably shouldn't be. Right now,
some of the best epidemiologists in the country have reported
(15:06):
that twenty nine percent of people who use marijuana, either
for recreational purposes or for medical purposes, have a cannabis
use disorder.
Speaker 6 (15:21):
A third of the people. Now, why is that so
because people using it for so called medicinal purposes are
using daily or five times daily or ten times daily.
And the risks of becoming addicted to marijuana increase depending
on how frequently you use. So if you use daily,
(15:44):
the risks are about thirty to fifty percent.
Speaker 5 (15:48):
And when you have this condition that you're addicted to it,
what are the signs of that?
Speaker 1 (15:53):
What are the symptoms of that?
Speaker 6 (15:55):
Well, the symptoms are standard symptoms for use disorder substance disorders.
It means not meeting commitments. It means being disinterested in
in uh in things and things that you normally are.
It means trying to quit and being unable to quit frequently.
(16:18):
There are eleven criteria for for substance use disorders. The
interesting thing is somebody in UH in the National Survey
and Drug Use in Health compared the symptoms of alcohol
used disorder with cannabis use disorder and they've found that
(16:39):
the symptoms that are categorized as more moderate in this
moderate to severe category are higher for marijuana than for alcohol.
And alcohol there are more numbers of people in the
mild to moderate range.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
Wow, So when I used it and was really using
it a lot, I started having anxiety, I started to
have disinterest. I started also aggression, like I would snap.
My personality change. And now I hear that er visits
are up, especially among young people with psychosis suicidal planning.
(17:17):
I mean that is that accurate? And to what extent
what percentage of marijuanas can be attributed to that?
Speaker 6 (17:24):
Well, psychosis has been a very controversial issue until I
think the data that has come in in the past
ten years. So psychosis, as you know, there's there's many
causes of psychosis. Some of them are and some of
them could be metabolic, some are drug induced, and so on.
(17:47):
But the association between psychosis, schizophrenia which means an enduring psychosis,
and marijuana is getting so strong that more and more
people are claiming that it's a cause of schizophrenia, not
just an association. That's right, And why is that? First
(18:10):
of all, it's dose response. The more you use, the
more frequently you use, the more likely you have to
develop schizophrenia. Secondly, in seven countries at least where they
have looked at people with early onset marijuana use, the
risks of developing schizophrenia are higher that if you never
(18:32):
touched marijuana during your young young adolescent or a young adult. So,
and there's a six criteria for causality and marijuana, I
think fulfills at least five of those.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Do you guys?
Speaker 4 (18:47):
As I'm listening to this, all I'm hearing is like
from my past of bringing this stuff up. Oh, these
guys have an agenda. They went into this for a reason.
Did you get into this one any kind of agenda?
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Number one?
Speaker 4 (18:58):
And number two? What kind ofushback do you get? Because
you must get pushback.
Speaker 6 (19:03):
So, first of all, agenda, I am not a drug user.
I don't use alcohol. It's not that I have an
aversion to alcohol. It's that I simply don't. I just
fall asleep with it. So there's no point in missing
the party if you're going to go to sleep, right.
(19:24):
I have always observed when I was a kid, I
observed what happens to people using drugs. And in my childhood,
which was one hundred years ago, we had one or
two kids who started using marijuana and they went downhill
very fast, and I was stunned by that. That didn't
(19:45):
inject into me a passion about it until I was
a graduate student and I started to I was asked
to try to find out how LSD works, and I
started to read the literature on psychiatry uses of LSD,
and they were malevolent the effects of LSD, And gradually
(20:07):
I became more and more interested in trying to protect
the human brain. My real passion is the magnificence of
the human brain. It's the one thing that makes us human.
It's the repository of our humanity, and drugs can interfere
with normal human brain function and derail people's potential. That
(20:30):
became my motivation, and after that I volunteered. I am
not in the payroll of anyone whatsoever.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
So what about the pushback.
Speaker 6 (20:43):
The pushback I've received?
Speaker 1 (20:56):
So what about the pushback.
Speaker 6 (20:59):
The push back I've received? Obviously, the drug policy alliance
of people who are users, reporters and the media who
are users. Many people who use casually have no consequences,
and so they say, because I personally have no consequences,
(21:21):
there is nothing wrong with the drug. That's not how
science works. Science works on the basis of epidemiology. They
look at vast numbers of people. They look at the
consequences to vast numbers of people, not to individuals. That's
how the FDA works when it approves drugs. It doesn't
go up to a person with a microphone and interviews
(21:43):
them and says, did marijuana make you feel good? And
did it reduce your pain? Okay, then will approve it. No,
it works on the basis of statistics and vast numbers
of people. And so the science is on the side
of what I'm saying. Because I'm just quoting manuscript after manuscript,
(22:04):
each one of which I can send you the citations, right,
but I've had pushback. It doesn't bother me because basically
my foundation, my base is data, and the data disclaims
some of the folks who are heavy lifetime users.
Speaker 5 (22:26):
What I'm hearing anecdotally from people now, both users and
people in your profession. The catchphrase is, you know, the
pot today is not your grandfather's pot. Are growers and
distributors actually trying to grow more powerful strains of marijuana?
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Why has it become so much more it's.
Speaker 6 (22:48):
Much more powerful? Of course they are.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
You know.
Speaker 6 (22:52):
There's a very well known principle in biology that the
faster a drug gets into the brain and stronger the hit,
meaning the higher the dose, the addictive potential goes up.
Now everybody in drug industry, alcohol, tobacco, marijuana, they all
(23:15):
know a verius and cocaine opioids. They know a very
simple principle. The more powerful the drug, the more you
get people addicted. The more people are addicted, the more
you have a cache of people who are chronic users,
who are going to be your main source of profit.
(23:38):
And that's basically what it is. So in the sixties
and seventies, the concentration of THHC in the marijuana plant
was anywhere from believe it or not, as low as
one percent up to four or five percent with hashiesh
it is now bred to be about twenty percent THC
(24:02):
and dabs and shatters, which is an increasing market share,
which is highly concentrated THHC can be up to ninety
percent THC.
Speaker 5 (24:15):
I just want to ask you about the other popular
component of marijuana, CBD. Are there similar Are there? There
seems to be in cosmetics and sleep aids and different
kinds of things pain relief, topical pain relief. Is CBD
a different story altogether or or there are also problems
with that.
Speaker 6 (24:35):
CBD is an entirely different story in terms of it
is non addictive, It does not have psychoactive properties. It
does not intoxicate you. It functions in ways that are cryptic.
People really don't quite know how it works. From that
(24:57):
point of view, it's much safer. The problem with CBD
is that it can also have drug interactions with other
medications that you take. That's a problem, and there is
some evidence of liver toxicity. The thing that is really
(25:17):
disconcerting is that it's being marketed under false premises because
there is a claim that it is a painkiller. The
evidence is very weak. There's a claim that it puts
you to sleep. The evidence is very weak. It can
be sedating, but it's not a good sleep aid. And
(25:37):
yet it seems to have taken hold. People are buying
it like the droves and making all kinds of claims
that have no basis in science.
Speaker 4 (25:48):
Are you completely disconcerted about the fact that the ship
has sailed? Do you feel like there's that we can't
take it back, that we don't have long term studies?
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Where are we? Where are we as far as regulation,
as far as getting the information out in the right way.
Speaker 6 (26:05):
Well, there are three things to say about that. Number
one is there is beginning to be pushback and for
the first time. The New York Times, which has been
touting marijuana much of the mainstream media, has promoted the
drug is safe, non addictive, and effective. For the first time,
you're beginning to see articles the mainstream media that are
(26:30):
that are beginning to describe the negative effects of marijuana.
Second thing we have to say is that given the
tobacco and alcohol industry is a model, once you have
massive dollars involved, billions of dollars that go into campaign
coffers of politicians, it's very hard to reverse a movement
(26:56):
because there's so much money involved. I'm very concerned learned
about that. I would love to see a reversal of
the mess we've made with marijuana, conflating it with medicine
and recreation. We've eroded the FDA, We've done everything wrong
in our country with regard to how we've handled this drug.
(27:16):
The third issue that I'm worried about is that the
same playbook that has been used for marijuana is being
used for hallucinogen psychedelics. And I'm extremely worried about that
because i know what happened to a lot of people
in the nineteen sixties and seventies, and I'm praying that
(27:37):
it doesn't happen again.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
If you're having to use it.
Speaker 5 (27:42):
Is there a benefit to edibles rather than smoking the edibles?
Speaker 6 (27:47):
There's different reasons for people going into emergency rooms with
edibles versus smokeables. And because the edibles don't kick in
until a few hours, because it takes long for digestion
to absorb the thh scene, they get it into the
partiovascular system. We are seeing more cases of edibles giving
(28:13):
rise to different types of problems than smoking. Smoking is
associated more with psychosis. Edibles are associated more with other
types of symptoms and emergency departments.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
And secondhand exposure.
Speaker 5 (28:30):
I'm a complete non user, so when I'm around people
using it, or I'm in a club or a stadium,
how much am I being affected by it?
Speaker 6 (28:38):
Well, there's some evidence that secondhand smoke can get into
your blood system and give you a positive The evidence
on whether or not it becomes intoxicating or not is
not as robust unless you're sitting in a car and
just everybody is smoking it and you're not where the smoke.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Density is very high.
Speaker 6 (28:58):
But I would say the evidence still is not robust
enough to make claims.
Speaker 5 (29:03):
All right, last question for me solve my teenage mystery.
I've tried marijuana twice when I was a teenager back
in the seventies. Each time I got a migraine in hives.
Does that mean I'm allergic to the plant.
Speaker 6 (29:17):
It's hard to know, but you may be allergic to
the fun guys that were growing on it.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Here you go, Just don't use it. Just say no,
Just say no to hive. Hey, you're not the boss
of me. And by the way, you're riding with Cheech
and Chong in a car. Yes, I'm going to get
at the secondhand.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
Doctor Matters, Thank you so much. And by the way,
today you can google her and see the papers and
see her talked on this and get some other information
that maybe we didn't get. But I just thought it
was important and I will probably get a lot of pushback,
but I just wanted to know the science, the science
behind this.
Speaker 6 (29:48):
There's one more science that I didn't mention that i'd
left to before I sure run off. This was just
published this week.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
Now.
Speaker 6 (29:55):
I've been saying this for at least fifteen years because
of some of the scientific papers that are coming out.
But now someone did what's called a meta analysis. They
accumulated all the papers on this particular topic that included
one hundred thousand adolescents, and they found what I've been
saying for fifteen years. Raids are lower. Dropout rates in
(30:20):
high school are much higher. College applications, college entries, college
completions are all much lower. On kids who use marijuana
in high school, their whole academic future is very much
compromised by using marijuana in high school.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (30:42):
Not a great statistic. Well, thank you for coming on.
Oh my gosh, we appreciate it your time. And by
the way, mostly I might say, you have a lovely family, lovely, lovely.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Oh my god, they'll kill me.
Speaker 4 (30:55):
They'll he'll be thrilled. Thank you so much again, thanks
for your time. I know how busy you are.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
Carefull that.
Speaker 5 (31:10):
So two things I know. One is I'm much healthier
than you because my brain is fine. So whenever we
have a discussion, I win because my brain is healthier,
my body is healthier. That's the first thing agreed.
Speaker 4 (31:23):
Are we agreed on that you have so many other
problems rather than the smoking. My brain is healthier.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
No, my brain is healthier, my body is healthy.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
It's based on the fact that you don't do pot.
My brain is healthier, I'm smarter, I'm more vigorous. Yes,
good luck. Okay, you know what, you live in a
delusional world. God bless you.
Speaker 5 (31:41):
Second thing, we know she's got a lovely home. We
saw so many things and then we started in the
upstairs that was no good. Then we moved into the
sunniest sun room I've ever seen. It looked like like,
you know, the Messiah was rising behind her.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
Not doing drugs helps you with thing schweish you had
a beautiful.
Speaker 5 (32:01):
Beautiful And then we went over and as you say,
a lovely family, my.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Family, which means a lot. By the way, nobody that
family had their hairspe.
Speaker 5 (32:08):
And I'll tell you something else. The woman is doing
very well. I'm just saying, you know, I'm wondering if.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
Three of the kids are basically private in the background
there my mother out of my mind.
Speaker 5 (32:22):
I'm psychotic and I'm not How does how does a
guy seriously, based on what we just learned, how does
a guy like Snoop or Seth Rogan, who admittedly are
habitual user, how are they so productive?
Speaker 1 (32:36):
How are they so I don't know?
Speaker 4 (32:40):
How does Willie Nelson do it for eight thousand years
and he's one hundred years old. Some people some people
just Richard's still alive. It doesn't Some people, I guess
have good DNA. It's a different DNA. Wow, I had
the I had the migraine and hive. Where they're biting
or they're buying, there's a strain we don't know about.
They just you know they're sharing among these it's like
(33:00):
money where they share information.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
They may have a strength. Yeah, they may. Are you happy? Now?
Speaker 5 (33:04):
Do you feel good that you are using yourself off?
Do you feel Vindegan? What I'm what I'm not happy about?
Speaker 4 (33:09):
If if what she said is accurate, which, by the way,
why wouldn't we think it was accurate based science?
Speaker 5 (33:14):
Well, she's only talking about I mean, she may or
may not have a prejudice.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
Is she personally like me?
Speaker 5 (33:20):
I'm a teetotal I do not touch this stuff, but
I'm not against it.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
I don't I don't prosthlytize.
Speaker 4 (33:26):
This is what I did, and I saw the effect
of it, and I thought, if that's the effect on me,
and we're reading the study, Yeah, what's the effect.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
On the United States?
Speaker 4 (33:35):
Now you have John Banner, the X speaker of the
house is working for a big organization that's pushing, you know,
that's selling and lobbying and whatever. So it's we've come
full circle. And is that surprising to you? John Baner
was always cigarette.
Speaker 5 (33:49):
If John John Banner during his tenure, if he wasn't
taking something, I don't know how the man survived.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
He was always danny. He played golf a lot too.
Speaker 4 (33:55):
Yeah, David Grubenheim, what do we got marijuana now?
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Is in the well?
Speaker 8 (34:01):
I would say it's an exclusive bluff, but not really.
It's the club of things that Americans do that are
bad for us and we just don't care.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
And not just Americans, but yes, that's true. It's global.
Speaker 8 (34:13):
Global Hamburgers, hamburger, How many hamburgers do.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
You eat a week?
Speaker 1 (34:20):
A week?
Speaker 5 (34:21):
A week, you'd have to go a month, maybe one
a month.
Speaker 8 (34:26):
Average consumption of hamburgers by Americans is three a week.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
And that's bad. No, it's great.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
How much? How about how about soda?
Speaker 1 (34:41):
How about soda? Soda is a chronic problem in this country.
I do know that.
Speaker 8 (34:44):
How many gallons does the average American consume each year?
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Well? Are we talking badlands?
Speaker 3 (34:52):
Uh? Average average?
Speaker 4 (34:56):
I don't know, but my wife my wife is My
wife is addicted to die coke, which drives me crazy.
I don't know how many gallons, Laura, do you produce it?
Where do you drink soda?
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Soda? No, I don't drink soda. I drink water. Oh,
there you go.
Speaker 5 (35:09):
I drink sparkling water, which I guess is soda. But
it doesn't have the syrups and the sugars.
Speaker 6 (35:14):
But it has a lot of sodium.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Has a lot of sodium.
Speaker 5 (35:16):
Yeah, And I just I would imagine the average the
person who drinks soda is probably drinking minimum two to
three glasses per day.
Speaker 4 (35:26):
Oh, I'm thinking more so, I'm thinking thirty five gallons
a year. I'm just putting a number.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
I'll go ahead, forty gallons.
Speaker 3 (35:32):
Whoa about forty gallons a year.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
A year of soda? Yeah, gotta wash it on the hamburgers. Yeah.
Speaker 8 (35:38):
We actually this country, we're actually in going in the
right direction. In two thousand, oh, we hit our high
at fifty three gallons.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
So we're coming down, coming down. Yeah, good guy, just
because it got expensive. That's yah. Well you know I
was switching the pot.
Speaker 5 (35:56):
Yeah yeah, Well thanks, all right, So that's it.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
You're done with the that's it.
Speaker 4 (36:01):
Oh yeah, after we.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Heard today, can I tell you something? I just want
to see if I get another hive? All right, I'll
give you all this stuff. I'm not smoking.
Speaker 4 (36:10):
My other allergies change. I got a ton of pots
that I'm not using. Come on over, you got I
still got the a bag of renning may want to
get rid of that. No, I'm gonna use it for
a barbeerge what are you waiting for to come over?
A smoke fish with it? And thank you for being
with us.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Thank you everybody, Good luck out the Thank you producer, Laura,
Thank you, Laura's in the window high. I wish she's
saying he's got She's got the house. No Really.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
As another episode of Really No Really comes to a close,
I know you're wondering, what are some other things about
marijuana that most people don't know? Well, I'll give you
the read on weed in a moment. The first let's
thank our guest, doctor Bertha Madress. You can follow doctor
maddress on x where she is at Madres Underscore Bertha
our little shell hangs out on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, and
(36:57):
threads at Really No Really Podcast, And of course you
can share your thoughts and feedback with us online.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
At reallynoreled dot com.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
Check out our full episodes on YouTube, hit that subscribe
button and take that bell so you're updated when we
release new videos and episodes, which we do each Tuesday.
So listen and follow us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts. And now the answer
to the question, what are some other things about weed
that most people don't know? Well? Some colleges in the
(37:25):
United States, including ones in Vermont, Oregon, and California, offer
classes on how.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
To cultivate cannabis.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
So yes, you can get an actual degree in ganja.
It's also possible that men and women absorb marijuana differently.
A twenty fourteen study looked at how male and female
rats responded to cannabis. The researchers found that the female
rats were more sensitive to the pain relieving qualities of cannabis. However,
the females were also more likely to become a nerd
to the medicinal and psychotrophic effects of cannabis and possibly
(37:55):
more susceptible to the negative side effects too. And lastly,
at present, the cannabis market bost seventy one million users
in the USA alone, almost fifty percent use it daily,
and the industry has greeted four hundred and twenty eight
thousand jobs.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
And yet I continue to labor here, underpaid and distinctly sober.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
BRILLIONA really is a production of iHeartRadio and Blase Entertainment.
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Peter Tilden
Jason Alexander
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