June 14, 2022 • 11 mins
You sent us your questions about how to get the hell out of diet culture, and Virgie, along with health coach Isabel Foxen Duke, are here to answer them! They talk about a better way to think about the meaning of hunger and fullness, and what to do when you’re confronted with a choice between the lasagna and the salad (hint: just eat them both!)
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Okay, I am back. Hi, let's mail bag? Oh my goodness,
super pumped for mail? Yes, yes, welcome to Rebel Eaters Club.
I'm Virgie Tovar and Isabel Fox and Duke is back.
Isabel is a health coach who helps people learn how
to finally make peace with food. She's also a really
(00:23):
good friend of mine. You sent us your most pressing
questions about how to get the hell out of diet culture,
and Isabel and I are here to answer. Mailbag. Is
your superpower? Oh? This is this is my jam. I
love I love a Q and A more than anyone.
Let's do it. Okay, so you're ready to show off
(00:44):
your superpower? Yes, I'm ready. All right. So someone asks,
where do you draw the line between healthy eating and
eating what is pleasurable? And my right to think that
the point you are making is not to not choose health,
but to be allowed to feel and seek pleasure through food,
if that is your decision. Yeah, this is a great question.
(01:06):
So I think that you know, again, this sort of
comes down to the definition of health. Right, So we
think of health is something that has just to do
with like my micronutrients and my physical body. Right, but right,
but the reality is, right, health includes mental and emotional
health and pleasure and joy and being able to get
(01:28):
pleasure and enjoy specifically from foods is something that we're
really designed for and that's very important for our mental health,
important for satisfaction, satiation, all of these various different, you know,
benefits that come from pleasure. Right, I mean, pleasure is
a health activity. Pleasure is health, pleasure is health. Promoting exactly,
pursuing pleasure is a health activity. Right, So then when
(01:48):
I think about health right as a giant pie of
all sorts of different aspects of health that may include
things like macro nutrients and wanted to a vegetable blah
blah blah, but it probably also includes all of these
other things. A big challenge when my clients come up
they think, like, if they have a salad that means
they're by definition choosing a salad over you know, the
(02:11):
macaroni or the hamburger or whatever. And I'm like, put
your hands together, have them both, right, like, let's get
it all in, you know, and really looking take looking
at health from the attitude of like, how do I
get it all in? You know, my health needs are changing.
Maybe one day my pressing need for a pleasure is
just it's more pressing than my need for something else,
(02:34):
and it's okay for that to be flexible and changing.
I love, I love, I love Okay. Next question, what
diet b as did you fall for when you were
still stuck in diet culture? What I mean, I mean
all of it. I mean, for me, the intuitive eating
(02:54):
diet was such a big one. It's amazing, Like, people
will go through my whole program, we'll talk about we
stepping theory, aged will go through all the stuff, and
still I often hear people say there's just still this
part of me that feels like somehow, if I get
it right, I'm gonna lose weight. Right, And so if
there's this part of you that's like somehow, if I
get it right, I'm gonna lose weight, or like maybe
this legalization phase is just a phase. You hear that
(03:16):
a lot with intuitive eating of like, well, I'm gonna
eat a lot in the beginning, but then eventually I'll
get to a point where I don't want brownies anymore. Right, Right,
We've talked about talking about we were just talking about
this where it's like this myth of like I'm into.
It's like there's almost like an angelic like, oh, I'm
an intuitive eater now, I don't even want anything that
(03:38):
isn't vegetable. And I'm like, this a rival myth is
just it's just kind of poop garbage. I'm like, I
don't think that that's a thing. I no longer Right,
Not only do I not think that's a thing, I
also don't think that's absolutely anything we should be striving for.
I mean, it's only because of diet culture that that
thing would even have any cachet or valor appeal anyway, right,
(04:02):
I mean a way. And I like the arrival language,
the arrival fallacy language is it's like, really it's like
if there's any part of you that's like thinking that
in the future your food is going to be magically
different or like you're like going to get somewhere that
you're not currently, that's a red flag, right. Really, Like
diet recovery is just about my food is what my
(04:22):
food is, and I'm cool with it today no matter
what it is, right, And so if I'm still orienting
towards food as like something that I'm going to achieve
in the future, that is probably indication of some sort
of underlying guyet mentality. Yes, yes, I love that. I
love that. Okay, So next question, how do you avoid
(04:43):
turning intuitive eating into just another diet? Oh? Yeah, so
I mean I letting go of narrow definitions of hunger
and fullness would be like my number one thing, right,
like recognizing that generally speaking, I think when people first
learn about intuita eating, like, I did you know? I
(05:05):
thought hunger was a growl in my stomach? Little did
I know that hunger can literally just take the form
of thinking about food. Right, let even the concepts of
hunger and fullness go. I prefer concepts like appetite and satiation.
So like my definition of appetite would be I want food.
I'm in the mood for food. I could eat then
great eat, you know, And satisfaction is just I don't
(05:29):
want to eat anymore. I'm done. I'm satisfied. And sometimes
this is where people get tripped up with the difference
between satisfaction and fullness. People think if I'm full, then
like I must be satisfied, and if I go past
full that's bad. But actually sometimes you need to get
really full to get satisfied. There are days where I
(05:52):
could eat something and I'm like, oh yeah, I'm satisfied.
I don't really need it anymore, and it's all like
polite and cute and like not that full. And there
are other days where it's like I'm to get stuffed
right now, and that's my satisfaction point, like I need
to get it in now, and that's okay too. And
so I actually really encourage people to just let go
of the concepts of hunger and fullness in general and
(06:12):
focus more on appetite and satiation, which my definitions of
that would be I want food and I don't want food.
Love that. I love that, Okay, amazing, Okay, So this
is I think that this question is a little bit
about can you talk about what it was like sort
of being in the depths of dieting and compare that
(06:33):
to what it feels like now that you're not doing that.
Oh you know, I say this a lot to my clients.
I still get super anxious. I still have lots of
life problems. I still have a lot of relationship problems.
I still go into get triggered and go into trauma response.
(06:57):
I just do it about other things now, not about
food as much, not about my body as much. You know,
when I was dieting, like that became the epicenter, that
became the place where all of my trauma energy, if
you will, went. It was constantly all about controlling food
(07:22):
and perfectionism and then this and then that, and the
just constant fatigue of trying to hang on by my
fingernails all the time, trying not to fall. That's every
single day of dieting and then falling and hating yourself
or falling right. And today, you know, like, on the
one hand, I'm like, you know, initially, especially I would
(07:44):
say in the first couple of years and to really
solid re card as I felt so free around food
and it's so amazing. And then there was there's this
like liberation right that I experienced that was so amazing.
But I do like to remind people just to like
kind of give a dose of reality that not dieting
anymore didn't actually solve my trauma. My trauma no longer
(08:07):
attaches to food, but fundamentally, like I still am a
human being who struggles with trauma and anxiety and like
stress and relationship stuff, and so it's like food is
just not one of them. And I actually think of
it as like a privilege that I actually get to
work on other areas of my life now because food
is not constantly the thing that's distracting me from everything else.
(08:30):
I get to work on my relationships now, I get
to like work on my career challenges now in a
way that I couldn't be as present for when it
was all about food. But yeah, I think that there's
this idea that like, once we're in recovery, like life
is going to be a magical unicorn, just kind of
similarly to like how we feel like once I've lose
(08:52):
the weight, my life will be a magical unicorn. And
that's not true either, And so I kind of like
to like call that out absolutely. I mean, yeah, I
think to that point, I love the idea of sort
of getting to, you know, work on these other areas
of your life, because if food is your number one
way that you're coping with anxiety or unresolved trauma or
(09:13):
any number of things, right, or like living in a
fat phobic culture, like food is so immediate and constant
and so connected to survival that you don't you don't
really get past that. That's sort of like the in
the hierarchy of what you're dealing, like how you're making
care of yourself. That one's always going to be on
top if that's if that's one of your coping mechanisms,
you know, right, right, Like every New Year's resolution was
(09:36):
like about losing weight in the past, Like this year,
my New Year's resolution was to be more kind to
my boyfriend. Very different, you know, yeah, one hundred percent.
It was absolutely amazing. I'm so grateful for you sharing
your time and your wisdom. I can't wait for our
next encounter. I know what a street It is truly
(10:05):
life changing when you stop worrying about food and you
become free to use your mental energy and emotional bandwidth
for other things, like helping a friend leave their toxic relationship,
taking up macromay, creating elaborate zines about your favorite foods,
or learning how to finally make a massive tower of
creampubs called a crocam bush. If you have thoughts on
(10:26):
the conversation you just heard, or even if you just
want to say hi, reach out DM me at Virgie Tovar,
DM the show's producers at Transmitter Pods, or shoot us
a message at Rebel Eaters Club at gmail dot com.
(10:48):
Rebel Eaters Club is brought to you by Transmitter Media.
This episode was produced by Shoshi Schmulevits. Sarah Knix is
Transmitters executive editor. Wilson Sarah is our managing producer, and
Greta Cohen is our executive producer and I'm your host,
Bergie Tobar Rick Kwana is our mixed engineer. And thanks
to Taka Yazawa who wrote some of the music we
use in the show. If you love Rubble Eaters Club,
(11:10):
tell your friends and share the love by writing a
review on your favorite podcast app.
Okay, I am back. Hi, let's mail bag? Oh my goodness,
super pumped for mail? Yes, yes, welcome to Rebel Eaters Club.
I'm Virgie Tovar and Isabel Fox and Duke is back.
Isabel is a health coach who helps people learn how
to finally make peace with food. She's also a really
(00:23):
good friend of mine. You sent us your most pressing
questions about how to get the hell out of diet culture,
and Isabel and I are here to answer. Mailbag. Is
your superpower? Oh? This is this is my jam. I
love I love a Q and A more than anyone.
Let's do it. Okay, so you're ready to show off
(00:44):
your superpower? Yes, I'm ready. All right. So someone asks,
where do you draw the line between healthy eating and
eating what is pleasurable? And my right to think that
the point you are making is not to not choose health,
but to be allowed to feel and seek pleasure through food,
if that is your decision. Yeah, this is a great question.
(01:06):
So I think that you know, again, this sort of
comes down to the definition of health. Right, So we
think of health is something that has just to do
with like my micronutrients and my physical body. Right, but right,
but the reality is, right, health includes mental and emotional
health and pleasure and joy and being able to get
(01:28):
pleasure and enjoy specifically from foods is something that we're
really designed for and that's very important for our mental health,
important for satisfaction, satiation, all of these various different, you know,
benefits that come from pleasure. Right, I mean, pleasure is
a health activity. Pleasure is health, pleasure is health. Promoting exactly,
pursuing pleasure is a health activity. Right, So then when
(01:48):
I think about health right as a giant pie of
all sorts of different aspects of health that may include
things like macro nutrients and wanted to a vegetable blah
blah blah, but it probably also includes all of these
other things. A big challenge when my clients come up
they think, like, if they have a salad that means
they're by definition choosing a salad over you know, the
(02:11):
macaroni or the hamburger or whatever. And I'm like, put
your hands together, have them both, right, like, let's get
it all in, you know, and really looking take looking
at health from the attitude of like, how do I
get it all in? You know, my health needs are changing.
Maybe one day my pressing need for a pleasure is
just it's more pressing than my need for something else,
(02:34):
and it's okay for that to be flexible and changing.
I love, I love, I love Okay. Next question, what
diet b as did you fall for when you were
still stuck in diet culture? What I mean, I mean
all of it. I mean, for me, the intuitive eating
(02:54):
diet was such a big one. It's amazing, Like, people
will go through my whole program, we'll talk about we
stepping theory, aged will go through all the stuff, and
still I often hear people say there's just still this
part of me that feels like somehow, if I get
it right, I'm gonna lose weight. Right, And so if
there's this part of you that's like somehow, if I
get it right, I'm gonna lose weight, or like maybe
this legalization phase is just a phase. You hear that
(03:16):
a lot with intuitive eating of like, well, I'm gonna
eat a lot in the beginning, but then eventually I'll
get to a point where I don't want brownies anymore. Right, Right,
We've talked about talking about we were just talking about
this where it's like this myth of like I'm into.
It's like there's almost like an angelic like, oh, I'm
an intuitive eater now, I don't even want anything that
(03:38):
isn't vegetable. And I'm like, this a rival myth is
just it's just kind of poop garbage. I'm like, I
don't think that that's a thing. I no longer Right,
Not only do I not think that's a thing, I
also don't think that's absolutely anything we should be striving for.
I mean, it's only because of diet culture that that
thing would even have any cachet or valor appeal anyway, right,
(04:02):
I mean a way. And I like the arrival language,
the arrival fallacy language is it's like, really it's like
if there's any part of you that's like thinking that
in the future your food is going to be magically
different or like you're like going to get somewhere that
you're not currently, that's a red flag, right. Really, Like
diet recovery is just about my food is what my
(04:22):
food is, and I'm cool with it today no matter
what it is, right, And so if I'm still orienting
towards food as like something that I'm going to achieve
in the future, that is probably indication of some sort
of underlying guyet mentality. Yes, yes, I love that. I
love that. Okay, So next question, how do you avoid
(04:43):
turning intuitive eating into just another diet? Oh? Yeah, so
I mean I letting go of narrow definitions of hunger
and fullness would be like my number one thing, right,
like recognizing that generally speaking, I think when people first
learn about intuita eating, like, I did you know? I
(05:05):
thought hunger was a growl in my stomach? Little did
I know that hunger can literally just take the form
of thinking about food. Right, let even the concepts of
hunger and fullness go. I prefer concepts like appetite and satiation.
So like my definition of appetite would be I want food.
I'm in the mood for food. I could eat then
great eat, you know, And satisfaction is just I don't
(05:29):
want to eat anymore. I'm done. I'm satisfied. And sometimes
this is where people get tripped up with the difference
between satisfaction and fullness. People think if I'm full, then
like I must be satisfied, and if I go past
full that's bad. But actually sometimes you need to get
really full to get satisfied. There are days where I
(05:52):
could eat something and I'm like, oh yeah, I'm satisfied.
I don't really need it anymore, and it's all like
polite and cute and like not that full. And there
are other days where it's like I'm to get stuffed
right now, and that's my satisfaction point, like I need
to get it in now, and that's okay too. And
so I actually really encourage people to just let go
of the concepts of hunger and fullness in general and
(06:12):
focus more on appetite and satiation, which my definitions of
that would be I want food and I don't want food.
Love that. I love that, Okay, amazing, Okay, So this
is I think that this question is a little bit
about can you talk about what it was like sort
of being in the depths of dieting and compare that
(06:33):
to what it feels like now that you're not doing that.
Oh you know, I say this a lot to my clients.
I still get super anxious. I still have lots of
life problems. I still have a lot of relationship problems.
I still go into get triggered and go into trauma response.
(06:57):
I just do it about other things now, not about
food as much, not about my body as much. You know,
when I was dieting, like that became the epicenter, that
became the place where all of my trauma energy, if
you will, went. It was constantly all about controlling food
(07:22):
and perfectionism and then this and then that, and the
just constant fatigue of trying to hang on by my
fingernails all the time, trying not to fall. That's every
single day of dieting and then falling and hating yourself
or falling right. And today, you know, like, on the
one hand, I'm like, you know, initially, especially I would
(07:44):
say in the first couple of years and to really
solid re card as I felt so free around food
and it's so amazing. And then there was there's this
like liberation right that I experienced that was so amazing.
But I do like to remind people just to like
kind of give a dose of reality that not dieting
anymore didn't actually solve my trauma. My trauma no longer
(08:07):
attaches to food, but fundamentally, like I still am a
human being who struggles with trauma and anxiety and like
stress and relationship stuff, and so it's like food is
just not one of them. And I actually think of
it as like a privilege that I actually get to
work on other areas of my life now because food
is not constantly the thing that's distracting me from everything else.
(08:30):
I get to work on my relationships now, I get
to like work on my career challenges now in a
way that I couldn't be as present for when it
was all about food. But yeah, I think that there's
this idea that like, once we're in recovery, like life
is going to be a magical unicorn, just kind of
similarly to like how we feel like once I've lose
(08:52):
the weight, my life will be a magical unicorn. And
that's not true either, And so I kind of like
to like call that out absolutely. I mean, yeah, I
think to that point, I love the idea of sort
of getting to, you know, work on these other areas
of your life, because if food is your number one
way that you're coping with anxiety or unresolved trauma or
(09:13):
any number of things, right, or like living in a
fat phobic culture, like food is so immediate and constant
and so connected to survival that you don't you don't
really get past that. That's sort of like the in
the hierarchy of what you're dealing, like how you're making
care of yourself. That one's always going to be on
top if that's if that's one of your coping mechanisms,
you know, right, right, Like every New Year's resolution was
(09:36):
like about losing weight in the past, Like this year,
my New Year's resolution was to be more kind to
my boyfriend. Very different, you know, yeah, one hundred percent.
It was absolutely amazing. I'm so grateful for you sharing
your time and your wisdom. I can't wait for our
next encounter. I know what a street It is truly
(10:05):
life changing when you stop worrying about food and you
become free to use your mental energy and emotional bandwidth
for other things, like helping a friend leave their toxic relationship,
taking up macromay, creating elaborate zines about your favorite foods,
or learning how to finally make a massive tower of
creampubs called a crocam bush. If you have thoughts on
(10:26):
the conversation you just heard, or even if you just
want to say hi, reach out DM me at Virgie Tovar,
DM the show's producers at Transmitter Pods, or shoot us
a message at Rebel Eaters Club at gmail dot com.
(10:48):
Rebel Eaters Club is brought to you by Transmitter Media.
This episode was produced by Shoshi Schmulevits. Sarah Knix is
Transmitters executive editor. Wilson Sarah is our managing producer, and
Greta Cohen is our executive producer and I'm your host,
Bergie Tobar Rick Kwana is our mixed engineer. And thanks
to Taka Yazawa who wrote some of the music we
use in the show. If you love Rubble Eaters Club,
(11:10):
tell your friends and share the love by writing a
review on your favorite podcast app.
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