May 31, 2022 • 32 mins
Virgie talks with disability justice advocate Alex Locust (aka Glamputee) about dating and intimacy. They discuss what fat liberation and disability justice teach us about interdependence, and Alex shares why they have started saying they're "horny for healing."
Topics include:
The Intersection of Fat Liberation and Disability Justice [04:20]
Unpacking Hook Up Culture [05:40]
Hiding Yourself for Others [09:09]
How To Become “Horny For Healing” [14:45]
What Is Access? [17:08]
A Different Way to Date [20:50]
The Tool of Shedding [24:24]
Future Sex Love Sounds [28:32]
For more of Alex’s work, follow them @glamputee on social or head to their website glamputee.com. Follow @virgietovar and @transmitterpods to stay up to date on all things Rebel Eaters Club, and make sure to visit rebeleatersclub.com to download your starter kit!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
From Transmitter Media. This is Rebel Eaters Club and I'm
your host, Virgie Tovar. My next guest is a disability
justice advocate, a LEO, and an all around babe. Their
name is Alex Locust. Alex is a self described queer, black,
biracial glam beautee proudly offering you a leg up on
(00:23):
disability justice. Today, we'll be getting into something I've wanted
to cover for a while, dating an intimacy, and I'm
so excited to do it with Alex in particular because
they have helped me think so many new thoughts about
this topic ever since we were introduced by a friend
who said we were going to connect like milk and cookies.
(00:44):
Welcome Alex, Hey, Virgilia, I don't think I had the
milk and cookies part of maybe I'm a little bit embellished,
but I basically feel like he said, I have a
feeling that you might connect, and it's just been like
giggles and tea. He's ever since. It's a it's a
(01:07):
giggle fist. Yes, okay, So before we get started, before
we get into it, we have some snacks. Alex, why
did you pick this snack for us today. You were like,
what's your favorite snack? Immediately my mind went to like
guaba and cheese Pastelito's. I spent a lot of time
living in Miami, and those were like such a treasure
(01:30):
and I haven't been able to really find ones that
I super loved. But then I had this amazing snack,
this guaba lime tart that a new friend Salamatu made
for his project Black Feast, and it just is like
not only like one of the most delicious things that
I've eaten recently, it just really I feel like embodies
(01:53):
what I feel like food can represent. Food is medicine,
food as activisms. Food is like community building. You know
what Salamatu and Anica are doing with Blackfeast. You know,
it's a food art event celebrating black artists and writers
through culinary interpretations of their work, right, And so like
(02:16):
to get to eat this like love that a black
queer person created for the community, and I was like,
I want to show this a virtue because it just
like takes me there. You know, Oh, I love that
story so much. So we're having lime guavatarts made by Blackfeast,
and I am stoked. Are you ready to try oh
(02:38):
my god, artific my foregament. I was like, where do
we go? Okay, we go? Now ready? Three? Two? One?
Mmmmmm mmmm yep mmm wow, m hmmm. So the guava,
(03:01):
I mean, this is true of tropical fruit in general.
It's just so good, like it's tangy and you can
just taste the sun or something. I don't know, you know, yeah,
I was just gonna say something. It feels it's guava lime,
and there's maple meringue. It's sweet, its tar, it's a triumph. Yes,
(03:22):
the meringue has almost like a perlescent chen and and
then you get down, so that's the first layer. There's
also like a beautiful little an edible flower on top
for a little bit of flourish. And then you get
into the pinky guava the next layer, and then the
layer after that is like shredded coconut. And is it
(03:45):
gram cracker? What is it? I really wish I could
tell you. I feel like more of it to find out,
I'm just gonna get lost and you're gonna lose me.
I'll be gone. I'm just really thinking. By the desert,
I love it well, so I'm kind of crust. It
has a coconuttiness to it, which I love, Like, I
(04:06):
really feel confident that I'm not hyping it up too much. Alex,
thank you for bringing this dessert into my world and
for introducing me to black Feast. I'm just stoked. As
I said, you're a disability justice advocate. You run an
amazing workshop called Spilva Disability where people can learn about
the movement and how they can participate in it. Under COVID.
(04:29):
It's also become an Instagram live series called sippin Saturday
is where you're continuing to spread the good word about access.
I think there's a lot of overlap between the disability
justice and fat liberation movements. One that you and I
have talked a lot about is dating an intimacy. Like,
in my mind, diet culture and the dating status quo
(04:52):
are sneaky cousins. Can you talk about how that shows
up in your work. Yeah, I feel able is a
sneaky cousin in there. You know, It's it's still communicating
which bodies are desirable, which bodies are worthy. There's a
lot of like moralism. I think the overlaps between diet
(05:15):
culture and ableism right around this like false belief that
people within the medical industrial complex know best about your body,
and if you're not adhering to these like standards that
are often like a racist and sexist and paphobic and
(05:36):
all these things that like you're not doing your body
right right and building off that idea of which bodies
are desirable. Something you've said to me about dating that
I love is that the way we do dating and
intimacy right now in mainstream society is all about being casual,
(05:56):
being chill, being low maintenance, and basically not having any means.
Can you unpack this? Oh yeah, I mean I almost imagine,
like this is so specific, but like, um, if you
roll up a luminum foil and you like buffet in
a ball, like you just keep buffing it, you can
(06:18):
actually create almost this like perfect sphere and it's just
like smooth and edge. And I think a lot of that.
How like early dating or there's like performance around like
being like cool and easy and like you're texting me
ten minutes before you want to hang out and expect
me to come like, yeah, I'm available. You cancel on
(06:41):
me ten minutes before our date and I'm already at
the restaurant. Oh, no worries like something came up right,
Like all of these things are kind of ways that
I feel like it's like standing that aluminum ball to
be like I have no like edges. There's no way
for me to like cut or harm you. I'm so
easy to like fit into whatever situation is being foised
(07:02):
upon me. And it's like at what cost, you know,
like when do you get what you need? When do
your needs get met? When do you get to also
experience like nourishment and healing and um support And again,
I just I want to dismantle or like disrupted this
(07:23):
binary of like disabled people are the ones with needs
disabled people have to conform. I feel like I spent
so much of my early dating particularly feel like I
had to compensate for being disabled, you know, like I'm
lucky that this like hot person is willing to go
(07:45):
on this date with me, Yes, you know, and it's
for me reflecting on it for this conversation. It's like
those even almost as like it feels like like Greek
like myth level of like cosmic irony of like being
an imputee. I'm living in a society that like literally
(08:06):
sees my body as as lacking right, as like I'm
at a deficit, like I'm missing not just a limb,
but I'm missing part of my wholeness, my whole self.
And so I had this understanding or this assumption that
like I had to then make up for what was missing, Right,
So I have to be even more available, I have
(08:29):
to be even more casual and thun and easy. And
you know what's missing from that equation. It assumes that
non disabled people, you know, people with four limbs, like
four limbers, right, I don't know if you have a
disabled yes, you know. It's like it's it's this assumption
that I'm the one who's supposed to compensate. And then
(08:51):
I'm dating people who like aren't in a place to
like name their needs or aren't asking me about mine,
people who don't have some of that like emotional magic
and like capacity for like deep listening and intimacy and
care that I have, Right, Yeah, I mean I relate
(09:11):
to this as a fat woman, and I think specifically,
I'm thinking a lot about how much I tried to
hide my body, which is just so it's just so
absurd actually, right, Like, I mean, I was an early
adopter of Internet dating because I was fat shamed so relentlessly,
and I really relish the opportunity to be able to
(09:35):
hide my body, and I fully subscribe to this idea
that I could like trick someone into falling in love
with me, you know, because there's no way that they
could like my body, there's no way they could enjoy it.
I'd have to like dupe somebody into falling in love
with my personality, which, of course I had worked so
hard on to be extra charming and extra smart and
have a huge vocabulary and all of these kinds of
(09:57):
things that were meant to make up for what I
understood as you know, like a societal deficit, a privilege deficit,
you know, and that sense of coming hat in hand
to any exchange is so humiliating. Yeah, I mean you
for you to use the word dupe like you're you're
(10:20):
using words that I've used literally to describe, like when
I came out when I was dating in Miami, you know,
I was on Grinder and Okay Cupid, and on Okay Cupid,
I'm like, Okay, So my understanding of this website is
that like people are seeking like dating right, They want
to like go on dates, they want to get to
(10:40):
know people, and so my my thinking there was like
none of my pictures you could see that I was
an imputee. I'm like, you know, you want to get
to know me as a person, and it shouldn't matter
what my body looks like, and so I would kind
of like not show that, and then I would I
would disclose like before the date, like by the way,
I'm a put and I would ask people. I would
(11:01):
be like, is that okay with you? Right? And with grinder,
I'm like, well, if you're just trying to fuck, then
I'm down. My body's ready, and if you just want
to have casual sex and it shouldn't matter what I
look like either, and still would do that, like I'm
going to roll up to your house in like an hour.
Also I'm an emput is that okay? And that kind
(11:22):
of like a asking for permission? And you know, it's
really like weighs on my heart that I used to
offer people that opportunity to deny me or and then
it also to your point, like I think that trying
to control our bodies, our body minds to appear more desirable,
(11:43):
it's like this fallacy of like, well if I approximate
the identities in power, right, if I appear less disabled,
if I you know, if I like perform thinness, if
I if I do these things that make people more comfortable,
then I'll experience less violence. Then people will find me
more desirable. And it's just it's such a trap because
(12:06):
it's like, if you succeed at that, if that works,
then you have to maintain that to stay desirable, which
means you're just contorting in a relationship where you're supposed
to be able to be present and yourself and authentic,
whether it's a casual sex or like a deep partnership.
And then if it fails, right, if people see through it,
(12:29):
if people tire of it, if people you know, I've
had situations where I'm like dressed the most flamboyantly I've
ever been dressed, and situations where I'm dressed real casual,
and both times people have hurled like violent microaggressions to me.
So it doesn't matter what I'm wearing, count dressed, how behave,
I'm still an enable a society. And like I just
(12:49):
I feel I've been joking with friends that I'm like
horny for healing. I feel like I'm like, yeah, I want,
I want connections that feel like they're like fertile soil
for my liberation work, I have a lot of unlearning
(13:10):
to do. I have. I've had very hard lessons in
the past couple of years where I have to reckon
with ways that I have been complicit with these systems
that I'm trying to dismantle. I can't just go out and,
you know, speak the good word about things that I'm
not living myself. And I think ultimately in my perspective,
(13:32):
I can hold up in my room and have this
b a sanctuary, and I can read everything, and I
can listen to everything, and I can consume all of
this amazing content that's out there. I have to be
able to put it into practice, and a lot of
that is in relationship. And so I want relationships that
promote that kind of healing for myself and reciprocal healing. Right.
(13:55):
I don't want to just use people for healing. I
want to be there for other people. I'm with partners
who express self consciousness in their bodies, and I'm like,
I get it, you know, and I want I want
to help offer a space where you can feel sexy
and hot unconditionally, just the way that I see you
and the way that I feel seen by you. And
(14:17):
that doesn't just like to be sexual partners, that can
be friends, that can be you know, a community, all
of these kind of things like the more that we
orient towards like healing liberatory relationships, right, like trying to
tear these systems down rather than like our individual liberation,
(14:38):
it's it propagates, it kind of like builds off of
itself for for everyone's freedom. Oh yes, I mean Alex
Horney for Healing twenty twenty two. Yeah, Horny for Healing
for President. Um, I wonder Alex, like, can you talk
about that transition from a person who is like hiding
(14:59):
and disclosing, you know, disclosing your disability an hour before
a day and asking for permission to someone who's horny
for healing. Mmm? I mean what a what a transition?
Talk about character development. I'm really proud of her. Horny
for healing is rooted and like all of this work,
(15:24):
you know, growing healing, committing to liberation, like it is
a like daily practice. I feel like I have to
be like a devotee to this pursuit and so like therapy,
being in community with other people who are healing art.
Art has been so healing to me, and I've gotten
(15:45):
to be in like several drag performances during the pandemic.
I got to perform with a choreographer to the song
might Us Touch, and like I'm in the music video
and like all purple propped balro with like big shoulder
pats and floey pants, and I'm like kind of giving
you some like prints, you know, gender queer, like furry realness.
(16:10):
And it's like these are things that I had to
like really commit to and and find people who supported
that and then support them in kind, and like I
think that's how I've gotten to this place of seeking
those kind of like liberatory relationships. Like I feel like
I'm like coming into like non binary identity because of
non binary and like trans babies in my life who
(16:32):
have helped space for these kind of explorations and like
love you know, and care. So I think anytime you
can find people in your life that like see you
and all of you, those are the people that I
would I would say you should ride hard for because
like that's where my healing has has truly stent from.
So yeah, totally, access is a big part of the
(17:14):
work that Alex does. It's a central idea within disability justice.
So I wanted to ask Alex to break it down
for me. Can you just tell me a bit about
what access is, Like, what does it mean to you? Alex?
What a question? I don't want to find acces access
from a very like functional maybe you know, a da
(17:38):
legally's like compliance. Space is like there are certain physical
things that are required for disabled people to access spaces, right,
you know, assign language interpreters, ramps and elevators for people
who use wheelchairs or people with mobility challenges. Right, there's
also access around is your event near public transportation? Right?
(18:04):
Is there daycare? Right? Are there people with kids? Can
they access that space in the same way that other
people can? Right? So, I think when we start to
expand access not to just like zoom in on this
binary of are you disabled or are you not? But
again thinking about everybody benefits from access, you know. So
I think access just really is like how do you
(18:26):
in your body mind? Like what are your needs to
be able to be present in a space and be
able to like enjoy equally or even equitably, Rather than
just focusing on like disabled people have you know, the
quote special needs. Right, Yes, I mean this is one
of the things that I feel like I've honestly learned
(18:47):
from you, though it's so obvious. But again, I think
there is that there's that sort of the normative framework
isn't actually enable us framework, but I mean the idea,
the idea that access is only needed for a very
small group of people who are somehow, you know, asking
for something extra, expanding the notion of access to every
(19:12):
single person, every single body, every single mind needs access
in fact, yep, yeah, I mean it's it's I think
the way that I've been trying to shift away from
because I don't like how it feels or like sits
in my spirit is you know, there's kind of this
like morbid joke around disability that like, you know, if
(19:37):
you have the privilege of growing old enough, like you
will become disabled at some point. Yeah, It's like we
have a relationship to our bodies where we understand the
future of other people's bodies, right, we understand what other
people may and or will experience at some point in
their lives. And so turning to that wisdom around access,
(19:59):
around interdependence, right, all of that benefits everybody. And so
then when we're thinking, like you said about all body
minds being able to access things. You know, having chairs
that are accessible to fat people is not like a
special need. That's just making sure that everybody who comes in,
(20:19):
regardless of how you look or you know, how big
you are, like that you can also participate. And I
just I often see that framing of like special needs,
of honing in on marginalized bodies often is irrespective of
the fact that, like, anybody can become disabled, and so
(20:41):
if you treat it as like in us them like,
really you're ignoring the fact that like times of ticket,
you know, especially in society and a culture that's really violent. Yeah. Absolutely.
I mean what I love Alex that you are not
only critical of the dating status quo, but you are
(21:02):
also what I might call a Venusian visionary. Specifically, you
talk about dating from an access perspective, and honestly, I
think this is the key to the romance revolution, right
because I mean, when you think about it, access is
just about admitting and accepting that humans have human bodies.
(21:24):
And I think what's really wild about this is, you
know this seems obvious, but actually we're still in this
age of like scientific materialism, which is the idea that
our body is just a machine and food is just fuel,
and our muscles and our bones and all that are
just pulleys and you know, a series of complicated mechanics.
(21:49):
And I'm really curious what you think, Alex, what is wrong?
Let's define the problem. What is wrong with the current
dating climate the romance industrial complex? If you will, can
you give us a breakdown from an access perspective, go,
just just lay it out real quick. I wow. I
(22:16):
would say that your your reference to this like bodies
as machines, right or like robots, is a huge piece
of the puzzle. One of the ten principles of disability
justice that Patty Burn proposed is anti capitalism. And you know,
(22:37):
anti capitalism not just around you know, like deconstructing the
violence of capitalism, but interrogating how we deem bodies to
produce right as more worthy right or produce more as
more worthy. And so when disabled bodies, because of the
environments that we're in, like literally cannot access the same
(23:00):
amounts of like productivity nor maybe have the desire to,
then those people are deemed as like less worthy. And
so I think that plays out in dating in this
very strange way where it's like this like double standard. Right.
We have these like rom coms and these big sweeping
romances in movies and TV and literature that are all
(23:22):
about like the tenderness about these like grand sweeping gestures around,
you know, the the extravagance of trying to like sweep
someone off their feet. But if we say that like
people who have needs are less valuable because having needs
means you can produce less. When disabled people like share
their access needs or have access needs, or anyone has
(23:45):
access needs, it creates this like inappropriate burden I think
in some ways of people date and connect. And it's
it's really unfortunate because I think when we interrogate that,
when we dismantle that, when we demand that everyone's access
needs are attended to, I think that's where those are
(24:05):
the sites of like the most for me, the most tenderness,
the most intimacy, like the hottest sex, the most sustainable
like partnerships, lovers, like connections that I've had. And so
it's it's disheartening to see that like all of this
performance really gets in the way of the connections that
(24:26):
people are actually desiring. Oh I love this. I mean
going back to it takes work, it takes bravery, it
takes you know, all these things, right, I think what
you're proposing is so beautiful, and also it can be terrifying.
Like I just I remember for years I was not
in a place where I could be witnessed, Like it
(24:46):
actively upset me to be witnessed, and I couldn't be
in partnership with people who were willing to witness me.
And so I think one of the biggest tragedies, and
we talk about this, you know, on the podcast a
lot is like most of us are born with this
innate ability to do these things, to connect to you know,
eat in a way that feels good and right, um,
you know, all of these things. And then we're kind
of going back to the metaphor of this, you know
(25:09):
ball that's smoothed down. There's sort of these forces, these
cultural forces that just sort of shave us down and
shave us down and shave us down. How can you
call that anything besides trauma, Like that's absolutely oppression, that's
absolutely right, And yet a lot of us are operating
from that place and trying to make things work from
a thing that is pretty broken. I mean, I mean, like,
(25:32):
do you have any advice for the person who's like,
you know what, I'm sick of being in this cycle.
I'm having a really hard time taking that like first
step out. Do you do you have ideas of what
that first step might be. I know, for me, something
that hit hard at the beginning and like I'm still
(25:54):
navigating is the reality that when you enter into the
Church of Disability Justice right when you like, you know,
I'm singing the gospel, like this is something that is
a north star for me. This is how I'm orienting
in my relationships moving forward, you kind of can't. You
(26:16):
can't turn back from that, you know. And so then
when you are in conversations with people, whether it's like
just friends, hearing the way that they talk about dating
or the way that you pursue your own dating life, like,
once you know how to embody liberation or at least
like theoretically right, you kind of can't go back on that.
(26:39):
And so it is really hard to then realize, like
addressing it can create you know, people can respond defensively,
people can respond violently, and so it's really I think
that one of the first steps is shoring up your
resources and preparing to like engage with this lifelong journey
because what you then become as a mirror for people
(27:01):
to see the ways that they are perpetuating ableism, and
people do not respond well when they are encountered with
how they're perpetuating oppression, you know, and so just kind
of like bracing for that, and I think understanding that
there may be a transition of like because of how
connecting with people who are not interrogating these things might
(27:25):
have felt quote easier, you know, like We've had this
whole conversation today around like this like alleged ease of
like dating and sex and intimacy that a lot of
people perform, and so it can feel like, oh, now
all my connections are harder or people are more off
put by the way that I'm presenting. But it's like
that's because those people aren't also doing the work. Those
(27:47):
people aren't in alignment with how you are now navigating
the world. And so just like understanding that you will
probably I experience kind of like a shedding. You're emerging
from this crystalists and that process is painful. It's it's
hard to realize that people you really care about, people
you're really attractive to people who may have provided you
(28:08):
a lot of support and care. Also, we're doing so
conditionally upon the conceit that like we don't interrogate hard
body eat minds and access needs and the ways that
we're like perpetuating harm and that I know for me
it was a hard transition and it's still hard to
reckon with today if I'm like, well, I really like
(28:29):
this connection for these reasons, but I can tell this
person doesn't do X, Y and Z right, and how
do you how do you square that? Ah? Wow, shedding
that's an amazing tool. I mean, there's so many things
you've taught me that I kind of want to I
kind of want to share with rebel eaters. I'm thinking
specifically about turning sexy on its head, right, you know,
(28:49):
like why can't it be sexy when we say this
or we ask this? Can you offer some like you know,
it's projecting into the future of like a world where
we're not living in a love pyramid scheme? Um, you know,
what is sexy? What are those sexy whisperers pillow talks?
What might that look like? I mean, you know, I
(29:13):
felt so cared for by people in my life when
like they witness a microaggression in public and like check
on me immediately. You know. Um, I think that that
is like sexy in the broader term of like I
(29:34):
feel so cared for you know that I didn't have
to say to my friend, hey, like that was really painful.
I don't feel good in my body right now, you know,
like that they just like jump and know like my
friend has been harmed, and like what do they need?
And I think that kind of pillow talk can happen
(29:55):
of like you know, what do you want to do today?
How can I how can I provide you care? Like
do you want breakfast in bed? Do you want meeded?
Like go out and get it? We can order in
Like any of those kind of things aren't just about
are you disabled? Are you not? It's like what do
you want? What are you looking for? What? How can
I make this like a hot ass day for you?
(30:15):
I think that's all all very sexy. You know, we're
horny for kneeling, so if that's something you're into, slide
of my DM I'm ready. Yay, Alex. Thank you so
much for talking with me. This has been absolutely incredible.
Thank you for all your work, Orgie I just I
(30:35):
love this podcast, So I love you. I love the
work that you're doing. It's it's a real honor to
be here. Wow. Well, I'm definitely horny for healing you.
(31:01):
Reach out and let us know your dating gripes, romance,
horror stories, and or your hacks for finding love in
the intimacy Pyramids game DMUs on Instagram, at Transmitter Pods,
or email us at Rebel Eaters Club at gmail dot com.
You can find more of Alex's work on social media
at glamput on Instagram, and if you want to support
(31:22):
Blackfeast so they can keep making yummy guava lime charts,
find them on Instagram at Black dot Feast. Rubbel Eaters
Club is brought to you by Transmitter Media. This episode
was written and produced by Isabel Carter. Sarah Knicks is
Transmitters executive editor. Wilson Sarah is our managing producer, and
Greta Khan as our executive producer, and I'm your host.
(31:42):
Virgie Tobar Rick Kwan is our mix engineer and thanks
to Taka Yasuzawa who wrote some of the music we
use in the show. If you love Rebel Eaters Club,
tell your friends and share the love by writing your
review on your favorite podcast app. See you next weekly
From Transmitter Media. This is Rebel Eaters Club and I'm
your host, Virgie Tovar. My next guest is a disability
justice advocate, a LEO, and an all around babe. Their
name is Alex Locust. Alex is a self described queer, black,
biracial glam beautee proudly offering you a leg up on
(00:23):
disability justice. Today, we'll be getting into something I've wanted
to cover for a while, dating an intimacy, and I'm
so excited to do it with Alex in particular because
they have helped me think so many new thoughts about
this topic ever since we were introduced by a friend
who said we were going to connect like milk and cookies.
(00:44):
Welcome Alex, Hey, Virgilia, I don't think I had the
milk and cookies part of maybe I'm a little bit embellished,
but I basically feel like he said, I have a
feeling that you might connect, and it's just been like
giggles and tea. He's ever since. It's a it's a
(01:07):
giggle fist. Yes, okay, So before we get started, before
we get into it, we have some snacks. Alex, why
did you pick this snack for us today. You were like,
what's your favorite snack? Immediately my mind went to like
guaba and cheese Pastelito's. I spent a lot of time
living in Miami, and those were like such a treasure
(01:30):
and I haven't been able to really find ones that
I super loved. But then I had this amazing snack,
this guaba lime tart that a new friend Salamatu made
for his project Black Feast, and it just is like
not only like one of the most delicious things that
I've eaten recently, it just really I feel like embodies
(01:53):
what I feel like food can represent. Food is medicine,
food as activisms. Food is like community building. You know
what Salamatu and Anica are doing with Blackfeast. You know,
it's a food art event celebrating black artists and writers
through culinary interpretations of their work, right, And so like
(02:16):
to get to eat this like love that a black
queer person created for the community, and I was like,
I want to show this a virtue because it just
like takes me there. You know, Oh, I love that
story so much. So we're having lime guavatarts made by Blackfeast,
and I am stoked. Are you ready to try oh
(02:38):
my god, artific my foregament. I was like, where do
we go? Okay, we go? Now ready? Three? Two? One?
Mmmmmm mmmm yep mmm wow, m hmmm. So the guava,
(03:01):
I mean, this is true of tropical fruit in general.
It's just so good, like it's tangy and you can
just taste the sun or something. I don't know, you know, yeah,
I was just gonna say something. It feels it's guava lime,
and there's maple meringue. It's sweet, its tar, it's a triumph. Yes,
(03:22):
the meringue has almost like a perlescent chen and and
then you get down, so that's the first layer. There's
also like a beautiful little an edible flower on top
for a little bit of flourish. And then you get
into the pinky guava the next layer, and then the
layer after that is like shredded coconut. And is it
(03:45):
gram cracker? What is it? I really wish I could
tell you. I feel like more of it to find out,
I'm just gonna get lost and you're gonna lose me.
I'll be gone. I'm just really thinking. By the desert,
I love it well, so I'm kind of crust. It
has a coconuttiness to it, which I love, Like, I
(04:06):
really feel confident that I'm not hyping it up too much. Alex,
thank you for bringing this dessert into my world and
for introducing me to black Feast. I'm just stoked. As
I said, you're a disability justice advocate. You run an
amazing workshop called Spilva Disability where people can learn about
the movement and how they can participate in it. Under COVID.
(04:29):
It's also become an Instagram live series called sippin Saturday
is where you're continuing to spread the good word about access.
I think there's a lot of overlap between the disability
justice and fat liberation movements. One that you and I
have talked a lot about is dating an intimacy. Like,
in my mind, diet culture and the dating status quo
(04:52):
are sneaky cousins. Can you talk about how that shows
up in your work. Yeah, I feel able is a
sneaky cousin in there. You know, It's it's still communicating
which bodies are desirable, which bodies are worthy. There's a
lot of like moralism. I think the overlaps between diet
(05:15):
culture and ableism right around this like false belief that
people within the medical industrial complex know best about your body,
and if you're not adhering to these like standards that
are often like a racist and sexist and paphobic and
(05:36):
all these things that like you're not doing your body
right right and building off that idea of which bodies
are desirable. Something you've said to me about dating that
I love is that the way we do dating and
intimacy right now in mainstream society is all about being casual,
(05:56):
being chill, being low maintenance, and basically not having any means.
Can you unpack this? Oh yeah, I mean I almost imagine,
like this is so specific, but like, um, if you
roll up a luminum foil and you like buffet in
a ball, like you just keep buffing it, you can
(06:18):
actually create almost this like perfect sphere and it's just
like smooth and edge. And I think a lot of that.
How like early dating or there's like performance around like
being like cool and easy and like you're texting me
ten minutes before you want to hang out and expect
me to come like, yeah, I'm available. You cancel on
(06:41):
me ten minutes before our date and I'm already at
the restaurant. Oh, no worries like something came up right,
Like all of these things are kind of ways that
I feel like it's like standing that aluminum ball to
be like I have no like edges. There's no way
for me to like cut or harm you. I'm so
easy to like fit into whatever situation is being foised
(07:02):
upon me. And it's like at what cost, you know,
like when do you get what you need? When do
your needs get met? When do you get to also
experience like nourishment and healing and um support And again,
I just I want to dismantle or like disrupted this
(07:23):
binary of like disabled people are the ones with needs
disabled people have to conform. I feel like I spent
so much of my early dating particularly feel like I
had to compensate for being disabled, you know, like I'm
lucky that this like hot person is willing to go
(07:45):
on this date with me, Yes, you know, and it's
for me reflecting on it for this conversation. It's like
those even almost as like it feels like like Greek
like myth level of like cosmic irony of like being
an imputee. I'm living in a society that like literally
(08:06):
sees my body as as lacking right, as like I'm
at a deficit, like I'm missing not just a limb,
but I'm missing part of my wholeness, my whole self.
And so I had this understanding or this assumption that
like I had to then make up for what was missing, Right,
So I have to be even more available, I have
(08:29):
to be even more casual and thun and easy. And
you know what's missing from that equation. It assumes that
non disabled people, you know, people with four limbs, like
four limbers, right, I don't know if you have a
disabled yes, you know. It's like it's it's this assumption
that I'm the one who's supposed to compensate. And then
(08:51):
I'm dating people who like aren't in a place to
like name their needs or aren't asking me about mine,
people who don't have some of that like emotional magic
and like capacity for like deep listening and intimacy and
care that I have, Right, Yeah, I mean I relate
(09:11):
to this as a fat woman, and I think specifically,
I'm thinking a lot about how much I tried to
hide my body, which is just so it's just so
absurd actually, right, Like, I mean, I was an early
adopter of Internet dating because I was fat shamed so relentlessly,
and I really relish the opportunity to be able to
(09:35):
hide my body, and I fully subscribe to this idea
that I could like trick someone into falling in love
with me, you know, because there's no way that they
could like my body, there's no way they could enjoy it.
I'd have to like dupe somebody into falling in love
with my personality, which, of course I had worked so
hard on to be extra charming and extra smart and
have a huge vocabulary and all of these kinds of
(09:57):
things that were meant to make up for what I
understood as you know, like a societal deficit, a privilege deficit,
you know, and that sense of coming hat in hand
to any exchange is so humiliating. Yeah, I mean you
for you to use the word dupe like you're you're
(10:20):
using words that I've used literally to describe, like when
I came out when I was dating in Miami, you know,
I was on Grinder and Okay Cupid, and on Okay Cupid,
I'm like, Okay, So my understanding of this website is
that like people are seeking like dating right, They want
to like go on dates, they want to get to
(10:40):
know people, and so my my thinking there was like
none of my pictures you could see that I was
an imputee. I'm like, you know, you want to get
to know me as a person, and it shouldn't matter
what my body looks like, and so I would kind
of like not show that, and then I would I
would disclose like before the date, like by the way,
I'm a put and I would ask people. I would
(11:01):
be like, is that okay with you? Right? And with grinder,
I'm like, well, if you're just trying to fuck, then
I'm down. My body's ready, and if you just want
to have casual sex and it shouldn't matter what I
look like either, and still would do that, like I'm
going to roll up to your house in like an hour.
Also I'm an emput is that okay? And that kind
(11:22):
of like a asking for permission? And you know, it's
really like weighs on my heart that I used to
offer people that opportunity to deny me or and then
it also to your point, like I think that trying
to control our bodies, our body minds to appear more desirable,
(11:43):
it's like this fallacy of like, well if I approximate
the identities in power, right, if I appear less disabled,
if I you know, if I like perform thinness, if
I if I do these things that make people more comfortable,
then I'll experience less violence. Then people will find me
more desirable. And it's just it's such a trap because
(12:06):
it's like, if you succeed at that, if that works,
then you have to maintain that to stay desirable, which
means you're just contorting in a relationship where you're supposed
to be able to be present and yourself and authentic,
whether it's a casual sex or like a deep partnership.
And then if it fails, right, if people see through it,
(12:29):
if people tire of it, if people you know, I've
had situations where I'm like dressed the most flamboyantly I've
ever been dressed, and situations where I'm dressed real casual,
and both times people have hurled like violent microaggressions to me.
So it doesn't matter what I'm wearing, count dressed, how behave,
I'm still an enable a society. And like I just
(12:49):
I feel I've been joking with friends that I'm like
horny for healing. I feel like I'm like, yeah, I want,
I want connections that feel like they're like fertile soil
for my liberation work, I have a lot of unlearning
(13:10):
to do. I have. I've had very hard lessons in
the past couple of years where I have to reckon
with ways that I have been complicit with these systems
that I'm trying to dismantle. I can't just go out and,
you know, speak the good word about things that I'm
not living myself. And I think ultimately in my perspective,
(13:32):
I can hold up in my room and have this
b a sanctuary, and I can read everything, and I
can listen to everything, and I can consume all of
this amazing content that's out there. I have to be
able to put it into practice, and a lot of
that is in relationship. And so I want relationships that
promote that kind of healing for myself and reciprocal healing. Right.
(13:55):
I don't want to just use people for healing. I
want to be there for other people. I'm with partners
who express self consciousness in their bodies, and I'm like,
I get it, you know, and I want I want
to help offer a space where you can feel sexy
and hot unconditionally, just the way that I see you
and the way that I feel seen by you. And
(14:17):
that doesn't just like to be sexual partners, that can
be friends, that can be you know, a community, all
of these kind of things like the more that we
orient towards like healing liberatory relationships, right, like trying to
tear these systems down rather than like our individual liberation,
(14:38):
it's it propagates, it kind of like builds off of
itself for for everyone's freedom. Oh yes, I mean Alex
Horney for Healing twenty twenty two. Yeah, Horny for Healing
for President. Um, I wonder Alex, like, can you talk
about that transition from a person who is like hiding
(14:59):
and disclosing, you know, disclosing your disability an hour before
a day and asking for permission to someone who's horny
for healing. Mmm? I mean what a what a transition?
Talk about character development. I'm really proud of her. Horny
for healing is rooted and like all of this work,
(15:24):
you know, growing healing, committing to liberation, like it is
a like daily practice. I feel like I have to
be like a devotee to this pursuit and so like therapy,
being in community with other people who are healing art.
Art has been so healing to me, and I've gotten
(15:45):
to be in like several drag performances during the pandemic.
I got to perform with a choreographer to the song
might Us Touch, and like I'm in the music video
and like all purple propped balro with like big shoulder
pats and floey pants, and I'm like kind of giving
you some like prints, you know, gender queer, like furry realness.
(16:10):
And it's like these are things that I had to
like really commit to and and find people who supported
that and then support them in kind, and like I
think that's how I've gotten to this place of seeking
those kind of like liberatory relationships. Like I feel like
I'm like coming into like non binary identity because of
non binary and like trans babies in my life who
(16:32):
have helped space for these kind of explorations and like
love you know, and care. So I think anytime you
can find people in your life that like see you
and all of you, those are the people that I
would I would say you should ride hard for because
like that's where my healing has has truly stent from.
So yeah, totally, access is a big part of the
(17:14):
work that Alex does. It's a central idea within disability justice.
So I wanted to ask Alex to break it down
for me. Can you just tell me a bit about
what access is, Like, what does it mean to you? Alex?
What a question? I don't want to find acces access
from a very like functional maybe you know, a da
(17:38):
legally's like compliance. Space is like there are certain physical
things that are required for disabled people to access spaces, right,
you know, assign language interpreters, ramps and elevators for people
who use wheelchairs or people with mobility challenges. Right, there's
also access around is your event near public transportation? Right?
(18:04):
Is there daycare? Right? Are there people with kids? Can
they access that space in the same way that other
people can? Right? So, I think when we start to
expand access not to just like zoom in on this
binary of are you disabled or are you not? But
again thinking about everybody benefits from access, you know. So
I think access just really is like how do you
(18:26):
in your body mind? Like what are your needs to
be able to be present in a space and be
able to like enjoy equally or even equitably, Rather than
just focusing on like disabled people have you know, the
quote special needs. Right, Yes, I mean this is one
of the things that I feel like I've honestly learned
(18:47):
from you, though it's so obvious. But again, I think
there is that there's that sort of the normative framework
isn't actually enable us framework, but I mean the idea,
the idea that access is only needed for a very
small group of people who are somehow, you know, asking
for something extra, expanding the notion of access to every
(19:12):
single person, every single body, every single mind needs access
in fact, yep, yeah, I mean it's it's I think
the way that I've been trying to shift away from
because I don't like how it feels or like sits
in my spirit is you know, there's kind of this
like morbid joke around disability that like, you know, if
(19:37):
you have the privilege of growing old enough, like you
will become disabled at some point. Yeah, It's like we
have a relationship to our bodies where we understand the
future of other people's bodies, right, we understand what other
people may and or will experience at some point in
their lives. And so turning to that wisdom around access,
(19:59):
around interdependence, right, all of that benefits everybody. And so
then when we're thinking, like you said about all body
minds being able to access things. You know, having chairs
that are accessible to fat people is not like a
special need. That's just making sure that everybody who comes in,
(20:19):
regardless of how you look or you know, how big
you are, like that you can also participate. And I
just I often see that framing of like special needs,
of honing in on marginalized bodies often is irrespective of
the fact that, like, anybody can become disabled, and so
(20:41):
if you treat it as like in us them like,
really you're ignoring the fact that like times of ticket,
you know, especially in society and a culture that's really violent. Yeah. Absolutely.
I mean what I love Alex that you are not
only critical of the dating status quo, but you are
(21:02):
also what I might call a Venusian visionary. Specifically, you
talk about dating from an access perspective, and honestly, I
think this is the key to the romance revolution, right
because I mean, when you think about it, access is
just about admitting and accepting that humans have human bodies.
(21:24):
And I think what's really wild about this is, you
know this seems obvious, but actually we're still in this
age of like scientific materialism, which is the idea that
our body is just a machine and food is just fuel,
and our muscles and our bones and all that are
just pulleys and you know, a series of complicated mechanics.
(21:49):
And I'm really curious what you think, Alex, what is wrong?
Let's define the problem. What is wrong with the current
dating climate the romance industrial complex? If you will, can
you give us a breakdown from an access perspective, go,
just just lay it out real quick. I wow. I
(22:16):
would say that your your reference to this like bodies
as machines, right or like robots, is a huge piece
of the puzzle. One of the ten principles of disability
justice that Patty Burn proposed is anti capitalism. And you know,
(22:37):
anti capitalism not just around you know, like deconstructing the
violence of capitalism, but interrogating how we deem bodies to
produce right as more worthy right or produce more as
more worthy. And so when disabled bodies, because of the
environments that we're in, like literally cannot access the same
(23:00):
amounts of like productivity nor maybe have the desire to,
then those people are deemed as like less worthy. And
so I think that plays out in dating in this
very strange way where it's like this like double standard. Right.
We have these like rom coms and these big sweeping
romances in movies and TV and literature that are all
(23:22):
about like the tenderness about these like grand sweeping gestures around,
you know, the the extravagance of trying to like sweep
someone off their feet. But if we say that like
people who have needs are less valuable because having needs
means you can produce less. When disabled people like share
their access needs or have access needs, or anyone has
(23:45):
access needs, it creates this like inappropriate burden I think
in some ways of people date and connect. And it's
it's really unfortunate because I think when we interrogate that,
when we dismantle that, when we demand that everyone's access
needs are attended to, I think that's where those are
(24:05):
the sites of like the most for me, the most tenderness,
the most intimacy, like the hottest sex, the most sustainable
like partnerships, lovers, like connections that I've had. And so
it's it's disheartening to see that like all of this
performance really gets in the way of the connections that
(24:26):
people are actually desiring. Oh I love this. I mean
going back to it takes work, it takes bravery, it
takes you know, all these things, right, I think what
you're proposing is so beautiful, and also it can be terrifying.
Like I just I remember for years I was not
in a place where I could be witnessed, Like it
(24:46):
actively upset me to be witnessed, and I couldn't be
in partnership with people who were willing to witness me.
And so I think one of the biggest tragedies, and
we talk about this, you know, on the podcast a
lot is like most of us are born with this
innate ability to do these things, to connect to you know,
eat in a way that feels good and right, um,
you know, all of these things. And then we're kind
of going back to the metaphor of this, you know
(25:09):
ball that's smoothed down. There's sort of these forces, these
cultural forces that just sort of shave us down and
shave us down and shave us down. How can you
call that anything besides trauma, Like that's absolutely oppression, that's
absolutely right, And yet a lot of us are operating
from that place and trying to make things work from
a thing that is pretty broken. I mean, I mean, like,
(25:32):
do you have any advice for the person who's like,
you know what, I'm sick of being in this cycle.
I'm having a really hard time taking that like first
step out. Do you do you have ideas of what
that first step might be. I know, for me, something
that hit hard at the beginning and like I'm still
(25:54):
navigating is the reality that when you enter into the
Church of Disability Justice right when you like, you know,
I'm singing the gospel, like this is something that is
a north star for me. This is how I'm orienting
in my relationships moving forward, you kind of can't. You
(26:16):
can't turn back from that, you know. And so then
when you are in conversations with people, whether it's like
just friends, hearing the way that they talk about dating
or the way that you pursue your own dating life, like,
once you know how to embody liberation or at least
like theoretically right, you kind of can't go back on that.
(26:39):
And so it is really hard to then realize, like
addressing it can create you know, people can respond defensively,
people can respond violently, and so it's really I think
that one of the first steps is shoring up your
resources and preparing to like engage with this lifelong journey
because what you then become as a mirror for people
(27:01):
to see the ways that they are perpetuating ableism, and
people do not respond well when they are encountered with
how they're perpetuating oppression, you know, and so just kind
of like bracing for that, and I think understanding that
there may be a transition of like because of how
connecting with people who are not interrogating these things might
(27:25):
have felt quote easier, you know, like We've had this
whole conversation today around like this like alleged ease of
like dating and sex and intimacy that a lot of
people perform, and so it can feel like, oh, now
all my connections are harder or people are more off
put by the way that I'm presenting. But it's like
that's because those people aren't also doing the work. Those
(27:47):
people aren't in alignment with how you are now navigating
the world. And so just like understanding that you will
probably I experience kind of like a shedding. You're emerging
from this crystalists and that process is painful. It's it's
hard to realize that people you really care about, people
you're really attractive to people who may have provided you
(28:08):
a lot of support and care. Also, we're doing so
conditionally upon the conceit that like we don't interrogate hard
body eat minds and access needs and the ways that
we're like perpetuating harm and that I know for me
it was a hard transition and it's still hard to
reckon with today if I'm like, well, I really like
(28:29):
this connection for these reasons, but I can tell this
person doesn't do X, Y and Z right, and how
do you how do you square that? Ah? Wow, shedding
that's an amazing tool. I mean, there's so many things
you've taught me that I kind of want to I
kind of want to share with rebel eaters. I'm thinking
specifically about turning sexy on its head, right, you know,
(28:49):
like why can't it be sexy when we say this
or we ask this? Can you offer some like you know,
it's projecting into the future of like a world where
we're not living in a love pyramid scheme? Um, you know,
what is sexy? What are those sexy whisperers pillow talks?
What might that look like? I mean, you know, I
(29:13):
felt so cared for by people in my life when
like they witness a microaggression in public and like check
on me immediately. You know. Um, I think that that
is like sexy in the broader term of like I
(29:34):
feel so cared for you know that I didn't have
to say to my friend, hey, like that was really painful.
I don't feel good in my body right now, you know,
like that they just like jump and know like my
friend has been harmed, and like what do they need?
And I think that kind of pillow talk can happen
(29:55):
of like you know, what do you want to do today?
How can I how can I provide you care? Like
do you want breakfast in bed? Do you want meeded?
Like go out and get it? We can order in
Like any of those kind of things aren't just about
are you disabled? Are you not? It's like what do
you want? What are you looking for? What? How can
I make this like a hot ass day for you?
(30:15):
I think that's all all very sexy. You know, we're
horny for kneeling, so if that's something you're into, slide
of my DM I'm ready. Yay, Alex. Thank you so
much for talking with me. This has been absolutely incredible.
Thank you for all your work, Orgie I just I
(30:35):
love this podcast, So I love you. I love the
work that you're doing. It's it's a real honor to
be here. Wow. Well, I'm definitely horny for healing you.
(31:01):
Reach out and let us know your dating gripes, romance,
horror stories, and or your hacks for finding love in
the intimacy Pyramids game DMUs on Instagram, at Transmitter Pods,
or email us at Rebel Eaters Club at gmail dot com.
You can find more of Alex's work on social media
at glamput on Instagram, and if you want to support
(31:22):
Blackfeast so they can keep making yummy guava lime charts,
find them on Instagram at Black dot Feast. Rubbel Eaters
Club is brought to you by Transmitter Media. This episode
was written and produced by Isabel Carter. Sarah Knicks is
Transmitters executive editor. Wilson Sarah is our managing producer, and
Greta Khan as our executive producer, and I'm your host.
(31:42):
Virgie Tobar Rick Kwan is our mix engineer and thanks
to Taka Yasuzawa who wrote some of the music we
use in the show. If you love Rebel Eaters Club,
tell your friends and share the love by writing your
review on your favorite podcast app. See you next weekly
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