March 7, 2022 • 37 mins
Virgie was a guest on another show we think you’ll enjoy: Your Magic. And we have an update on Season 3!
Asking for help is not a sign of weakness — it's a sign of strength. In this episode of Your Magic, activist, speaker, teacher, and writer Virgie Tovar joins host Michelle Tea for a conversation about the magic of science, the dangers of diet culture, and the power of pleasure. Then, Bran Taylor helps us turn our emotions into powerful energy for change with a spell.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
From Transmitter Media. This is Rebel Eaters Club, and I'm
your host, Virgie Tofar. We are at this very moment
working on bringing you season three of the show, launching
May third. While you wait, I wanted to share a
little snack with you an episode of a podcast I
love and was a guest on, called Your Magic. It's
(00:25):
hosted by one of my personal heroes, Michelle T. Rebel Eaters.
I think you're going to love this episode because Michelle
and I talk about how diet culture messes with your
ability to connect to your unique special sauce magic, and
the academically prove an importance of gossip. Michelle also gives
(00:45):
me a deep tear jerk or tarot reading about how
to rely on other people, more of the deep wounds
we know so well, Rebel Eaters, bonappetite. One of the
principles of magic that I subscribe to and that I
think is so powerful is the notion of the interconnectivity
of all things. The idea that plants and the trees
(01:08):
and the oceans, and the human body and the galaxy
and stars that they're all connected. This is your magic.
I'm Michelle T. Today I'm pulling cards for Virgie Tovar,
the speaker, teacher, writer, and podcaster whose activism in the
fat positivity space is intersectional, confrontational, intellectual, and deeply pleasure centric.
(01:33):
We're going to talk about miracles, hunger, and intuition. After that,
we're visited by Brand Taylor, a queer, which crossroads worker
and ritual chandler at Magic Hour. They have a spell
that helps us channel our big emotions into powerful energy
for change. Stay with us, Okay, I'm going to take
(01:58):
what might be a contra virtual stance in the WU community.
It's certainly been a controversial stance in my family, and
that is forgiveness is overrated. When I was younger, a
man in my family took some pretty disturbing liberties with
my person. It created a culture of secrecy and fear
in my home that festered and really impacted my mental health.
(02:19):
Pushed to question my reality, my intuition was decimated. A
lot of my magic work as an adult has been
about restoring my sixth sense, learning to feel it again
and to trust it. When this guy was finally busted,
he did what a lot of busted creeps do. He
apologized profusely. Was he sorry? Probably? I believe his story
and experience are actually quite complicated, and that he had
(02:41):
his own torments. But guess what not my problem. In
a perfect world, the sorry man would be removed from
my reality so that I could get support and heal.
But I think we know that this world is pretty imperfect.
The thing that really got to me and it actually
still makes me sting with injustice when I think about it,
is how pressured I was to forgive him. My anger
I was told was toxic. It is true that anger
(03:02):
and resentment are powerful magics and carry a tremendously potent charge,
and in this way they are fantastic tools to use
in short bursts for self protection, to push for justice,
to guard the vulnerable. Make them your main energy, and
sure it's likely to turn on you, but they have
their place. When my family insisted I trade my sacred
anger for trumped up forgiveness, it just made me more angry.
(03:25):
It would have made everyone else's lives a lot easier
if I had been forgiving, which in my alcoholic New
England family is a little synonymous with forgetting. But I
felt my anger like a furious goddis in my heart,
demanding that I be made safe, and that my trespasser
have some consequences. My refusal to forgive him caused me
to be estranged from my family for quite some time.
(03:47):
Maybe I'm just a rebellious aquarian, but that experience has
made me a little suspicious about the reverence with which
forgiveness is treated in our culture, In a culture rife
with systemic injustice, where accountability is tough to come by,
When I see forgiveness being pushed, it makes me ask, like,
at whose expense? Who benefits from the forgiveness? Did they
earn it? Who is granting the forgiveness? Were they coerced?
(04:11):
I want in my magic toolbox all of the devices
I might need as I move through this life. There
is no good or bad magic, no light or dark,
certainly no black or white. There's only energy, energy that
we try to use for our highest good. And what
that might be is sometimes a really tough call. Now,
let's go talk to Virgie Tovar. Virgie Tovar, are you here?
(04:39):
I'm here? Oh my god. You know what is magic,
Virgie Tovar is your voice and your giggle. Your voice
and your magic voice and your magic giggle. It is
so amazing to hear you. Thank you so much for
being a guest at your magic. Oh my pleasure. Oh man.
I guess my first opening question for you is what
(05:02):
is magic to you? I kind of I realize, right,
like one of the things that I'm fascinated by is physics. Okay,
So like we have this concept called physics, but other people,
perhaps throughout time, have called it magic. Yeah, right, like
we have we have all these things that we have,
all these sort of sciency like we imagine like a
(05:24):
white man in a lab coat like talking about this stuff.
But it's like, you know, I think that not only
in other parts of the world right now, and certainly
I think in the West perhaps historically a lot of
these forces were considered magic. And so in a similar way,
I do think of physics and magic as connected um
(05:47):
as in the sense that like, right, like they are
governing forces, like they are things that the universe and
humans and plants and treat like everything is governed by
um and and I kind of think of it as,
you know, like it shapes the universe. I So I
think like in that way, I kind of see it
(06:08):
in the same way that I maybe conceptualize gravity or
something like that. And I think that like when we
do magic, when we engage in magic, we actually kind
of shape the universe. It's it's all around us all
the time. Um, and so you know, but for me,
the sort of like gorgeous edge to everything. Yeah, like
(06:34):
think about the bumblebee. Okay, Like a bumblebee is like
a tiny little fat bear with little wings and according
to physics, it's not supposed to be able to fly
because it's too big, but it does. And so I
mean and so like that for me, I'm just like
what like I mean, that tiny, tiny example of magic.
(06:57):
It's like I'm just like, you know, how can we
deny that we live in a magical universe if we
have actual creatures that we that are all around us
that defy physics, Like what is that thing? And so anyway,
that's like that's a tiny, tiny example, but like that's
kind of what magic means to me. I love it.
I love it, and I'm so down with the physics tip.
(07:18):
I love to think of science as like, um, it's
trying to it's kind of mapping the mystery, right, it's
mapping the magic. You know. Yeah, I like I like
thinking of magic and science sort of intertwined in that
cool way. And I do think a lot of things
that are magical are just scientific things that we haven't
we haven't gotten the science for it right right well,
(07:40):
and some of it is like literally just words that
have been put to magical phenomenon and then we call
it like you know, empirical, and I'm just like, just
because you can explain it with your words doesn't mean
that it's not like completely wild. But I just think about,
like you know, I think about like like a cap,
like a cassowary or a or wrap, like what the
(08:01):
fuck is that? What are what are these things? And
it was like it's like, yeah, you can, you can
taxonomize it. You can understand that it comes from dinosaurs,
you can know how it has babies, but that doesn't
mean you get it. But it doesn't you know. So anyway,
I think like some of it is like I agree,
like it's some of the stuff is just like mystery.
We don't have language for it, and even science e
(08:22):
dudes get it um. And then there's stuff where it's
like even if you can understand and can nap every
single part of that creature or that phenomenon's reality, I
mean it doesn't matter, like it's it's wild, you know,
I don't Yeah, yeah, thank you for invoking the Cassowary.
I mean that it's a yah yeah, and it's a thing.
(08:43):
It's like if we if we had located another planet
with life on it and saw like a cassowary, we
would be like, yeah, wtf look at this alien feature. Totally. Um,
what is the spiritual or religious story of your family? Okay,
so it's kind of like, you know, it's it's it
immediately actually brings up another side of magic, which is that, like,
(09:09):
you know, I was raised by Mexican immigrants, and in
Mexico as well as a lot of other parts of
the world, like the magical, the inexplicable, and the observable
empirical are there's not a binary the way that there
kind of is in the United States, right, So like,
for instance, your uncle, like it was totally possible that
(09:30):
like your uncle could die of the evil eye, and
that's discussed with the same earnestness as like anything else.
You know. Yes, the short answer is I was raised Pentecostal,
which is like the super stifling sect of you know, Christianity,
and most people are really surprised to hear, like, having
been raised by Mexican immigrants, that I wasn't raised Catholic.
(09:53):
And the interesting story there is that so my great
grandmother was the last practition of Mexican Catholicism, which is
very focused on the version of Guadalupe and like the
relationship to and the engagement with like that figure, that
feminine figure. So the story goes that my great grandmother
(10:14):
was so and I mean right, like Christianity is both
you know, it's religious, but it's also cultural in Mexico.
So you know, I don't know the level of like
engagement that my great grandmother had with the church, like
the Catholic Church or whatnot, but she was a devout
version of Guadalupe worshiper and like and devout Catholic. And
(10:37):
my grandfather was sort of known for being more of
like kind of this like you know, guitar playing, a
little bit of I don't know, like I don't think
like sort of somebody who was like not a part
of the church maybe and maybe what we'd call an agnostic.
I just kind of think it's like it's almost not
(10:57):
quite a philanderer, but somebody who's a little bit like
associated with like, oh, that person isn't a churchgoing person,
which has a little bit of a disparaging tone to it.
But anyway, he was kind of known for being like
a musician, very handsome. And then there was this traveling
Christian dude who was going all throughout Mexico and performing miracles.
(11:20):
So the story goes that my great grandfather is like,
you know, off playing guitar like an amazing you know whatever,
in like a bar or somewhere, and yes, and my
great grandmother is like devoutly worshiping, you know the version.
And then her brother, my great great uncle, I don't
even know. Her brother had lost his vision and it
(11:43):
was like he was born sighted and then he was
slowly using his vision and he was beginning to sort
of get into like he wasn't It wasn't a known
fact yet, but there were sort of suspicions about it
because he had started to change a little bit of
his behavior. And then the track leveler comes through their
town of like Monthee, like North Mexico, and it's like,
(12:06):
I will heal anyone who has an affliction, and my
great grandmother says, you know, heal my brother's blindness, and
he does. And then in that moment, my great grandfather
is there and he witnesses this and he falls to
his knees and says, I am dedicating my life to
(12:28):
whatever religion you practice. And then he became a proselytizing
Pentecostal pastor who traveled all over Mexico and did like
revivals and you know, and like was in Texas and
it was just like Wilder and so he became this
like super religious man. And so I was raised by
(12:50):
his youngest daughter, my grandmother, and so you know, part
of part of like you know, like his specter was
always there because she was so proud of his success,
like he started so many churches, and she sort of
and there's all these documents of like, you know, these
(13:11):
revivals that he would lead and these and he had
a newsletter that he wrote. Um, and so it's just
and he like you know, put aside everything, like put
aside the guitar. Put it. Well, that's that's not totally fair.
He began to play in church, like he no longer
drank and all these kinds of things, right, and um.
So that's kind of the background of the of my
(13:32):
religious you know how my family converted from Catholicism, and
I'm always I always think about that moment of like
what was it like for my great grandmother to sort
of be told like, guess what this like feminine focused
religious practice you have? It's like gone now and now
(13:52):
we're gonna like worship this dude. Maybe it wasn't a
big deal for her, but something in my life, in
my you know, epigenetic knowledge or something is like she
probably experienced as a massive betrayal. Like I mean, I
just can't imagine like being a woman in like the
nineteen tens nineteen twenties allowed to have this this like
(14:13):
this like sort of like goddess worship almost yeah, and
like how inclining that must have been, even in like
maybe a subconscious way. And then to have your husband,
who you can't really defy, tell you that you don't
get to do that anymore, and now your job is
to be like essentially like a servant to a bunch
of people and this God that you don't really know.
(14:36):
Like very early on, by the time I was like
ten or eleven, I began to question the morals of
what I was being taught. It's just making me think
of like how like an organized religions tend to be
so patriarchal and oppressive, and then it makes me think
of like magic and witchcraft and that those kind of
traditions as being like disorganized religion like this, like feminist
(15:00):
disorganized religion, you know, where it's like more chaotic and individualistic,
you know, essentially. Um, I would say any practice that
connects um feminine people, and I think, you know, all
people to a certain extent, but I think because of
the history of misogyny and sexism, particularly feminine people with
(15:22):
their intuition, is a is a magical practice. And I
see things like, you know, reflective things, self reflective things
like tarot, like journaling, you know, like processing like talking shit. Um,
I see these like I see these as magical processes.
So are you telling me that gossip is part of
(15:43):
your spiritual practice? Yes, I mean they. I mean like
I feel like you and I might have talked about
this at one point, but there's actual research on, like
literally like academics doing research on the social social biology
and the social role of gossip among marginalized people and
(16:04):
how it's a way of like sharing information in an
underground sort of information tunnel and getting affirmation about like
your suspicions about certain people and uh, and how it's
really only wasps who don't gossip is what the research
kind of in conclusion, and so you know, as somebody
who's not a wasp, Like, of course that's part of
(16:27):
my part of my magical practice. I love it. I'm
wondering if you can elaborate on how diet culture impacts magic. Yeah,
I mean diet culture like viciously steals people's magic, um, right,
Like I think, you know, one of the first things
(16:47):
that magic, one of the principles of magic that I
subscribe to and that I think is so powerful, is
the notion of the interconnectivity of all things, you know,
the idea that like you know that the plants and
the trees, and the oceans, and the human body and
(17:08):
the galaxy and stars, um, that they're all connected, that
there is no difference, that we're all made of the
same thing, which again is physics um. But like also
magic um. But you know, like, and I think that
diet culture really comes from a very colonialist, patriarchal tradition,
(17:29):
which is one of hierarchy, which is absolutely it's about
cutting off the interconnectivity of all things, and it's about
saying it's about positioning human and particularly masculine dominion over
all things, like over the natural world. And diet culture
(17:50):
really comes from from that, from that ideology, right, and
the way that it shows up is the notion of
mind over matter. So one of the first things that um,
that diet culture does that it undercuts your ability to
have a beautiful and generative and pleasure driven relationship to
(18:13):
hunger and to eating, which are which are not only
like necessary for survival, but are literally biologically designed to
create pleasure. Um. And so diet culture goes in and says, nope,
that process has to be regulated, has to be controlled,
and has to be guilt written and write like the
(18:35):
same in the same way that it's the same methodology
around sexuality, right, UM, Like it's an idea that you have,
the idea that you have to control sexuality um. And
this thing that was biologically designed to help you connect
to others and to connect to yourself and to connect
to like, you know, your magic um is something that
(18:57):
has to be regulated and controlled and specifically um. You know.
I think that, Uh, there's this really explicit connection to
racism in that in the sense that like, right, the
whole reason that mind over matter I think became so
important and is still so important in our culture is
(19:17):
because of the idea that m that like white men
deserve to take over and inherit the earth because they
have that willpower, and that it is like, you know,
brown people and black people who don't have that more
animal relationship to the body and to the to earth,
(19:38):
and therefore you know, they need to be controlled, and
so a lot of times, right, like that that connection
show like right, So diet culture is already always about
a practice of racism, and it's already always about a
practice of like having a colonial relationship to the body.
Diet culture is like a master gas lighter um in
the sense that, like, you know, one of the first
(19:59):
things that people are taught or on diet culture is like,
you cannot trust your own hunger, which is which essentially
is saying you cannot trust your body, You cannot trust
your instincts. You always have to govern those things. And
and sort of like that that false separation from the
natural world, including our own animal bodies, us like a
(20:23):
really fast way to be entirely disconnected from yourself. I
gotta tuck a tarot cards here, Virgie. Do you want
me to pull some cards for you? Yes, I would
love that. What would you like to what should we
(20:45):
pull about? I doubt, Like, I mean, my first thought was, like,
you know, I'm kind I am kind of curious about
like one transition that I'm in right now that's really terrifying,
and really mostly it's just terrifying right now, but I'm
kind of aware that it's like leaning towards generative, but
(21:09):
it's one of finally accepting that, you know, don't have
to fight battles alone. And I mean literally, like three
days ago, I wrote in my Google calendar, I was
like day that I welcomed in the notion that I
need other people. Oh that's beautiful, and so I just
(21:32):
because I mean, like I mean, I've always known it,
but it's always been a very reluctant, not even acceptance.
It's almost like sort of like a reluctant, like you know,
it would be rude to believe that I that I like,
got here by myself, and I refused to be that person.
But also like, my god, I hate relying on other
people for literally anything, and so that transition into this,
(21:56):
so I don't I don't know, Like that's kind of
like my headspace is like you know what, Like maybe
the question would be like what are the tools I need? What? Um? Like,
what what is this problem? Where is this process heading?
I don't know, Like that's is that enough? But I
do want to ask you, um, what where do you
think the um the apprehension to rely on other folks,
(22:18):
Like where does that come from? Have you pinpointed that
in yourself? Oh? Yeah, I mean I'm I mean, you know,
like I'm a hugely parentified like I was parentified in childhood. Okay,
I'm a recovering adult child you know of alcoholic, dysfunctional
family people, and so yeah, like I'm just like, yeah,
I had to be my own mom when I was
like five. It comes from that and the sense of
(22:39):
like that that everything feels really high stakes, like one
hundred percent of the time, because it's like if I
don't do the thing, and I like me personally, I
don't take care of it, the world's gonna fall apart,
you know, I do? I do. That's a really classic
like way that when when kids are given way too
much responsibility and families like that's just that's a classic
(23:01):
way that you turn out as an adult. I'm going
to pick some cards and just to see, like what
does this path look like as you continue on it?
And then I'm going to pick cards from an oracle
deck I have that I really love that will offer
sort of suggestions of like what different kind of energies
and practices can support you. Okay, So right now I'm
shuffling and I'm just asking the deck. All right, So,
(23:24):
oh wow, virgie, So your first card that I pulled
for you is the Chariot, which is who really great.
I'm gonna pull all three and then get a little
deeper into each of them. So the first card is
the Chariot, Oh my god. The second card is the
Six of Cups, which in this deck is titled Pleasure okay, yes,
and it's Son in Scorpio. And then your final card
(23:45):
is the Hermit. This is beautiful. This is so beautiful.
So the Chariot is so interesting because it's a totally
positive card, right, and it's your victory is assured when
you get the Chariot card. But it's full title is
the Chariot of War, so it is talking about a fight,
like you're fighting against something, right, And it's like what
(24:07):
you're fighting for right now is like you're pleasure, like
you're because it is a pleasure. It's an emotional pleasure
when you allow yourself to be vulnerable, when you allow
yourself to like you know, Barber set it, people who
need people, they're the luckiest people on earth, right. So,
and the chariot is a it's cancer and um as
an it's an emotional water sign. So but it's you know,
(24:29):
the charioteer in the card is wearing this golden armor
and cancers are the crab, so you know, they are
this little creasure that is so tender that it comes
with this shell. So it's very interesting. It's like this
is a card that's a lot about feeling like you
need to be self protective, but it's also about like
in general, when the when the chariot car comes up,
(24:49):
it's like you're on a journey and you're fighting for
something and it might be a little bit of a
bumpy ride, but you are so committed you're holding on
like the crab does. And and that's and that's your
and that's your Taurus. You know, that's your Taurus nature.
I get that you're not stubborn about like intellectual areas.
You know, you're really open to points of view. But
(25:11):
I do think that that stubbornness might come through for
you in like your dedication to work and to not
being afraid of hard work. You know, in this deck,
the top deck, the charioteers also holding what is supposed
to be an amethyst bowl full of blood. It's a
little goth for you there, but it's about sacrifice. So
it's like you're willing to make a sacrifice to get
(25:31):
to this higher ground. And that higher ground is a
place of pleasure, you know, where you're able to access
like a deeper emotional It's it's Sun and Scorpio. Scorpios
are very deep, right, Their emotions run deep, and their
connections to other people run really deep. And that the
fact that the card is called pleasure. It's like this
is very away from that Queen of Swords card, which
(25:54):
is very icy and intellectual. You know, you're getting these
warm emotional cards. And then you got the Hermit, which
is really interesting, and I think the Hermit is coming
up because you know, the Hermit is the character who
has to do some really intense work on themselves and
they know that it's work that only they can do
and they've got to take the space to do it,
(26:15):
you know, and they've got to take like the alone
time and they've got to do the work. And it's
an Earth sign, it's Virgo, and so it's about giving
yourself the structure to kind of do that work. And
you know, the hermit goes away because he doesn't want
other people's influences. He wants to really see out what
is his core truth underneath it all. It's a really
(26:36):
beautiful card. It's very and you know, the rendering of
it in this deck, there's a It's also about fearlessness.
He has the three headed hound of Hell sort of
like you know, jumping on his leg and he's just
ignoring it. He's like ignoring he you know, he's like, Okay,
I get it. It's scary, but you know, like this
is my path and I'm really dedicated to it. And
(26:57):
it's about he's holding a lantern and the hermit in
all Taro, I think it's always holding a lantern and
it's just about finding your inner light, you know. And
so this is beautiful. I love this path for you.
I'm now going to pick out if you'd like this
oracle deck and it's called vessel. So I'm gonna just shuffle,
just asking. Okay, we see that Virgie is on this journey,
(27:18):
she's in the chariot, she's headed toward pleasure. She might
have to stop off at a roadside cave every now
and then and let her hermit, let her hermit out.
Your first card that you got is called Trust, and
it's this picture of this, yeah, of this like feminine
person with her head back and her eyes closed and
her long hair is cascading, and there's like a green
(27:39):
hand with a heart on the palm and a red
hand with the heart on the palm. It's very like notebook,
dutily looking, but also like mystical. And your second one
is begin the car and it is an eight pointed
starve that's red with like bursts coming out of it,
like like rays of light, and also hearts and diamonds.
(28:02):
It's really explosive looking. And then you have forgiven right
stuff here, man, I know. So it's like, wow, here
we go trust, you know, And so much of the
work that you do in the world is getting people
to trust their intuition again. And it's like you practicing
that yourself, you know, and trusting your path that you're
(28:25):
on and trusting the decisions that you've had to make,
and then begin like every day. It just makes me think,
how like every day we begin again, right, we begin
our day and new and so like every day like
beginning this practice over again, right, even though it's a
path that you've been on for a while, just to
know that it's like it's going to manifest in a
new way every day, Like new aspects of it will
(28:47):
manifest itself, New aspects of your own interior will reveal itself.
So the sense of always beginning, but in a really
positive way, right, And then forgive. I'm sorry you got
the forgiveness card. I think forgiveness is highly overrated in
the h and the spiritual community. Frankly, I think we
need to make some more room for holy resentment. But
(29:10):
you know there, yes, Virgie as I just think everything
has a time and a place, and you can't force
forgive forgiveness right well, and Michelle might be like forgiving myself,
I mean like we can we can claim that process
or like when you when you when you told me
that it was forgive, my brain was immediately like, you know,
there's obviously the traditional understanding of like forgiving the people
(29:31):
who wronged you, but it's also like it can be
forgiving ourselves. It can be like, you know, just because
I forgive the wrong the wrong door, it doesn't mean
I have to do anything else, you know, Like I
can just make that gift for myself. It doesn't have
to be about doing anything in the physical world with them,
you know. Yeah, you can forgive somebody and that doesn't
mean you want to like be their bestie afterwards. You
(29:52):
can just sort of acknowledge, Yeah, you can just acknowledge
like it's okay, Like I understand complicated forces, you know,
worked together to make this terrible situation happen maybe for
both of us, and I release I'm releasing myself from
it totally hoof Yeah, seriously. And you know something, and
what's really interesting is I picked three cards from each deck,
(30:14):
and so underneath the chariot is trust, and I feel
like I feel like they're having a little bit of
a relationship. So it's like trusting your journey, trusting trusting
what you're the direction that you're heading in, trusting the
gusto that you're sort of applying to this path, and
then underneath pleasure is begin right, so begin a deeper
you know, exploration of pleasure, a deeper um, you know,
(30:35):
reverence of pleasure. And then underneath the hermit is forgive.
So it is this sort of like like going off
and it's very internal. It's an internal process where you
need your internal light to guide you and know that
it's like it's coming purely from you, and it's not
a pressure from like the culture, because I feel like
the culture puts a lot of pressure of forgiveness as
(30:56):
a virtue and you know, and I just very suspicious
of as a you know, I just feel like, you know,
it's like let's deconstruct the power dynamics and who that benefits.
But you know, it is also true that resentment can
harm us internally. So I love this. I love this
for you. It's really deep and it's really beautiful. Oh
(31:19):
I've been like literally tearing up and trying like I
just you know, like the whole time. So it's feel
it feel like it really resonated really deeply. So thank you,
hello listeners. This is brand and I do magical work
under the name Magic Hour, and this is a spell
(31:43):
to create space for the dark. Big, powerful emotions can
push us into a new direction. They are a catalyst
for transformation. They help raise our heart rate, spark our passions,
and fuel our voice for change, and this change leads
to growth. Growth can ignite revolution, and revolution can bring
(32:07):
much needed justice. For inspiration, envision those revolutionary people who
allow their big emotions to be expressed and felt deeply,
those who channel it through activism and through their art. Now,
I believe all emotions are on a continuum, and I
(32:28):
like to think of this continuum as a rainbow. Feelings
like happiness, joy, and excitement are part of the day rainbow,
and feelings like rage, anger, and grief are part of
the night rainbow. All emotions are valid and exist here
in a non judgment zone. Both sides of the rainbow
(32:50):
meet at the crossroads of the earth to form a
full and beautiful circle. Now, to magically work with the darkness,
we need to space for it. For this spell, We're
going to make an altar space to honor the dark
and to create a place to express the emotions of
the night rainbow. You will need an offering for the dark,
(33:15):
goddess or deity that you work with today, I'm using
black hello wore flowers from my garden, a pen and paper,
a bowl of salt water, a dark colored rock or
two I'm using a black tourmaline and a gray river rock.
A black or dark colored candle holding the intention of
(33:38):
honoring the darkness. Arrange the items on your altar, one
at a time. As you place the offering for the
dark goddess, imagine the grand doorway to spirit easily opening
for you. As you place the salty cauldron, think or
say the words, my grief and fear is sacred. As
(34:02):
you place the strong rocks, think or say the words,
my disgust and fatigue is sacred. As you place and
light the candle of change, think or say the words,
my anger and rage is sacred. Lastly, you're going to
(34:22):
charge the altar with a poem by Wendell Berry. Write
this poem on a piece of paper and place it
directly on your altar. Repeat these words whenever you want
to magically connect with the dark places. To go in
the dark with a light is to know the light.
To know the dark. Go dark, go without sight and
(34:48):
find that the dark too blooms and sings and is
traveled by dark feet and dark wings. Find yourself using
this altar wherever you need a space to express your
shadow places and big emotions. Cry, scream, right or sing.
(35:10):
Spirit can handle it for here. Your magic honors the
complexities of the powerful dark. Thank you, Brand Taylor. I
love that so much. This whole concept of the day
(35:31):
rainbow and the night rainbow such a simple and strong
way to think about the polarities of our emotions and
honor them. If you want more of Brand's magic wisdom
in your life, please check out Magic Hour. They're enchanted
Candle Company. They're really special. Thanks for tuning into your magic.
Make sure you follow us on Twitter and Instagram at
This is Your Magic. You can subscribe right here on Spotify.
(35:52):
Just do what you have to do so you don't
miss an episode, and sign up for our newsletter at
this is Your Magic dot Com and get more musings
from our team of spiritual seekers. Also, you can email
us at hello if this is your Magic dot Com,
we would love to hear from you. This episode was
produced and edited by Molly Elizalde, Tony Gannon, and Raven Yamamoto.
(36:13):
We got production support from Veronica A. Guard, Christine Marr
and Vera Blossom. Our executive producers are Ben Cooley, myself
and Molly Elizalde. Our original theme music is by John Kimbro.
Tune in next week for a conversation with poet Morgan Parker.
Thanks for listening, Gosh. I hope you enjoyed that conversation
(36:41):
as much as I did listening back. It's so clear
that one it's not only dudes in lab codes who
can understand life's mysteries. Two, Cassowaries our excellent proof that
just because something has a name doesn't mean it's not
totally out of this world. And three, any practice you love,
from journaling to gossiping, can help you reconnect to your magic,
(37:03):
intuition and desire. You can check out more episodes of
Your Magic Only on Spotify, or you can find the
crew on Twitter and Instagram at this is Your Magic
and stay tuned for a full season three of Rebel
Eaters Club will be dropping new episodes starting May third,
From Transmitter Media. This is Rebel Eaters Club, and I'm
your host, Virgie Tofar. We are at this very moment
working on bringing you season three of the show, launching
May third. While you wait, I wanted to share a
little snack with you an episode of a podcast I
love and was a guest on, called Your Magic. It's
(00:25):
hosted by one of my personal heroes, Michelle T. Rebel Eaters.
I think you're going to love this episode because Michelle
and I talk about how diet culture messes with your
ability to connect to your unique special sauce magic, and
the academically prove an importance of gossip. Michelle also gives
(00:45):
me a deep tear jerk or tarot reading about how
to rely on other people, more of the deep wounds
we know so well, Rebel Eaters, bonappetite. One of the
principles of magic that I subscribe to and that I
think is so powerful is the notion of the interconnectivity
of all things. The idea that plants and the trees
(01:08):
and the oceans, and the human body and the galaxy
and stars that they're all connected. This is your magic.
I'm Michelle T. Today I'm pulling cards for Virgie Tovar,
the speaker, teacher, writer, and podcaster whose activism in the
fat positivity space is intersectional, confrontational, intellectual, and deeply pleasure centric.
(01:33):
We're going to talk about miracles, hunger, and intuition. After that,
we're visited by Brand Taylor, a queer, which crossroads worker
and ritual chandler at Magic Hour. They have a spell
that helps us channel our big emotions into powerful energy
for change. Stay with us, Okay, I'm going to take
(01:58):
what might be a contra virtual stance in the WU community.
It's certainly been a controversial stance in my family, and
that is forgiveness is overrated. When I was younger, a
man in my family took some pretty disturbing liberties with
my person. It created a culture of secrecy and fear
in my home that festered and really impacted my mental health.
(02:19):
Pushed to question my reality, my intuition was decimated. A
lot of my magic work as an adult has been
about restoring my sixth sense, learning to feel it again
and to trust it. When this guy was finally busted,
he did what a lot of busted creeps do. He
apologized profusely. Was he sorry? Probably? I believe his story
and experience are actually quite complicated, and that he had
(02:41):
his own torments. But guess what not my problem. In
a perfect world, the sorry man would be removed from
my reality so that I could get support and heal.
But I think we know that this world is pretty imperfect.
The thing that really got to me and it actually
still makes me sting with injustice when I think about it,
is how pressured I was to forgive him. My anger
I was told was toxic. It is true that anger
(03:02):
and resentment are powerful magics and carry a tremendously potent charge,
and in this way they are fantastic tools to use
in short bursts for self protection, to push for justice,
to guard the vulnerable. Make them your main energy, and
sure it's likely to turn on you, but they have
their place. When my family insisted I trade my sacred
anger for trumped up forgiveness, it just made me more angry.
(03:25):
It would have made everyone else's lives a lot easier
if I had been forgiving, which in my alcoholic New
England family is a little synonymous with forgetting. But I
felt my anger like a furious goddis in my heart,
demanding that I be made safe, and that my trespasser
have some consequences. My refusal to forgive him caused me
to be estranged from my family for quite some time.
(03:47):
Maybe I'm just a rebellious aquarian, but that experience has
made me a little suspicious about the reverence with which
forgiveness is treated in our culture, In a culture rife
with systemic injustice, where accountability is tough to come by,
When I see forgiveness being pushed, it makes me ask, like,
at whose expense? Who benefits from the forgiveness? Did they
earn it? Who is granting the forgiveness? Were they coerced?
(04:11):
I want in my magic toolbox all of the devices
I might need as I move through this life. There
is no good or bad magic, no light or dark,
certainly no black or white. There's only energy, energy that
we try to use for our highest good. And what
that might be is sometimes a really tough call. Now,
let's go talk to Virgie Tovar. Virgie Tovar, are you here?
(04:39):
I'm here? Oh my god. You know what is magic,
Virgie Tovar is your voice and your giggle. Your voice
and your magic voice and your magic giggle. It is
so amazing to hear you. Thank you so much for
being a guest at your magic. Oh my pleasure. Oh man.
I guess my first opening question for you is what
(05:02):
is magic to you? I kind of I realize, right,
like one of the things that I'm fascinated by is physics. Okay,
So like we have this concept called physics, but other people,
perhaps throughout time, have called it magic. Yeah, right, like
we have we have all these things that we have,
all these sort of sciency like we imagine like a
(05:24):
white man in a lab coat like talking about this stuff.
But it's like, you know, I think that not only
in other parts of the world right now, and certainly
I think in the West perhaps historically a lot of
these forces were considered magic. And so in a similar way,
I do think of physics and magic as connected um
(05:47):
as in the sense that like, right, like they are
governing forces, like they are things that the universe and
humans and plants and treat like everything is governed by
um and and I kind of think of it as,
you know, like it shapes the universe. I So I
think like in that way, I kind of see it
(06:08):
in the same way that I maybe conceptualize gravity or
something like that. And I think that like when we
do magic, when we engage in magic, we actually kind
of shape the universe. It's it's all around us all
the time. Um, and so you know, but for me,
the sort of like gorgeous edge to everything. Yeah, like
(06:34):
think about the bumblebee. Okay, Like a bumblebee is like
a tiny little fat bear with little wings and according
to physics, it's not supposed to be able to fly
because it's too big, but it does. And so I
mean and so like that for me, I'm just like
what like I mean, that tiny, tiny example of magic.
(06:57):
It's like I'm just like, you know, how can we
deny that we live in a magical universe if we
have actual creatures that we that are all around us
that defy physics, Like what is that thing? And so anyway,
that's like that's a tiny, tiny example, but like that's
kind of what magic means to me. I love it.
I love it, and I'm so down with the physics tip.
(07:18):
I love to think of science as like, um, it's
trying to it's kind of mapping the mystery, right, it's
mapping the magic. You know. Yeah, I like I like
thinking of magic and science sort of intertwined in that
cool way. And I do think a lot of things
that are magical are just scientific things that we haven't
we haven't gotten the science for it right right well,
(07:40):
and some of it is like literally just words that
have been put to magical phenomenon and then we call
it like you know, empirical, and I'm just like, just
because you can explain it with your words doesn't mean
that it's not like completely wild. But I just think about,
like you know, I think about like like a cap,
like a cassowary or a or wrap, like what the
(08:01):
fuck is that? What are what are these things? And
it was like it's like, yeah, you can, you can
taxonomize it. You can understand that it comes from dinosaurs,
you can know how it has babies, but that doesn't
mean you get it. But it doesn't you know. So anyway,
I think like some of it is like I agree,
like it's some of the stuff is just like mystery.
We don't have language for it, and even science e
(08:22):
dudes get it um. And then there's stuff where it's
like even if you can understand and can nap every
single part of that creature or that phenomenon's reality, I
mean it doesn't matter, like it's it's wild, you know,
I don't Yeah, yeah, thank you for invoking the Cassowary.
I mean that it's a yah yeah, and it's a thing.
(08:43):
It's like if we if we had located another planet
with life on it and saw like a cassowary, we
would be like, yeah, wtf look at this alien feature. Totally. Um,
what is the spiritual or religious story of your family? Okay,
so it's kind of like, you know, it's it's it
immediately actually brings up another side of magic, which is that, like,
(09:09):
you know, I was raised by Mexican immigrants, and in
Mexico as well as a lot of other parts of
the world, like the magical, the inexplicable, and the observable
empirical are there's not a binary the way that there
kind of is in the United States, right, So like,
for instance, your uncle, like it was totally possible that
(09:30):
like your uncle could die of the evil eye, and
that's discussed with the same earnestness as like anything else.
You know. Yes, the short answer is I was raised Pentecostal,
which is like the super stifling sect of you know, Christianity,
and most people are really surprised to hear, like, having
been raised by Mexican immigrants, that I wasn't raised Catholic.
(09:53):
And the interesting story there is that so my great
grandmother was the last practition of Mexican Catholicism, which is
very focused on the version of Guadalupe and like the
relationship to and the engagement with like that figure, that
feminine figure. So the story goes that my great grandmother
(10:14):
was so and I mean right, like Christianity is both
you know, it's religious, but it's also cultural in Mexico.
So you know, I don't know the level of like
engagement that my great grandmother had with the church, like
the Catholic Church or whatnot, but she was a devout
version of Guadalupe worshiper and like and devout Catholic. And
(10:37):
my grandfather was sort of known for being more of
like kind of this like you know, guitar playing, a
little bit of I don't know, like I don't think
like sort of somebody who was like not a part
of the church maybe and maybe what we'd call an agnostic.
I just kind of think it's like it's almost not
(10:57):
quite a philanderer, but somebody who's a little bit like
associated with like, oh, that person isn't a churchgoing person,
which has a little bit of a disparaging tone to it.
But anyway, he was kind of known for being like
a musician, very handsome. And then there was this traveling
Christian dude who was going all throughout Mexico and performing miracles.
(11:20):
So the story goes that my great grandfather is like,
you know, off playing guitar like an amazing you know whatever,
in like a bar or somewhere, and yes, and my
great grandmother is like devoutly worshiping, you know the version.
And then her brother, my great great uncle, I don't
even know. Her brother had lost his vision and it
(11:43):
was like he was born sighted and then he was
slowly using his vision and he was beginning to sort
of get into like he wasn't It wasn't a known
fact yet, but there were sort of suspicions about it
because he had started to change a little bit of
his behavior. And then the track leveler comes through their
town of like Monthee, like North Mexico, and it's like,
(12:06):
I will heal anyone who has an affliction, and my
great grandmother says, you know, heal my brother's blindness, and
he does. And then in that moment, my great grandfather
is there and he witnesses this and he falls to
his knees and says, I am dedicating my life to
(12:28):
whatever religion you practice. And then he became a proselytizing
Pentecostal pastor who traveled all over Mexico and did like
revivals and you know, and like was in Texas and
it was just like Wilder and so he became this
like super religious man. And so I was raised by
(12:50):
his youngest daughter, my grandmother, and so you know, part
of part of like you know, like his specter was
always there because she was so proud of his success,
like he started so many churches, and she sort of
and there's all these documents of like, you know, these
(13:11):
revivals that he would lead and these and he had
a newsletter that he wrote. Um, and so it's just
and he like you know, put aside everything, like put
aside the guitar. Put it. Well, that's that's not totally fair.
He began to play in church, like he no longer
drank and all these kinds of things, right, and um.
So that's kind of the background of the of my
(13:32):
religious you know how my family converted from Catholicism, and
I'm always I always think about that moment of like
what was it like for my great grandmother to sort
of be told like, guess what this like feminine focused
religious practice you have? It's like gone now and now
(13:52):
we're gonna like worship this dude. Maybe it wasn't a
big deal for her, but something in my life, in
my you know, epigenetic knowledge or something is like she
probably experienced as a massive betrayal. Like I mean, I
just can't imagine like being a woman in like the
nineteen tens nineteen twenties allowed to have this this like
(14:13):
this like sort of like goddess worship almost yeah, and
like how inclining that must have been, even in like
maybe a subconscious way. And then to have your husband,
who you can't really defy, tell you that you don't
get to do that anymore, and now your job is
to be like essentially like a servant to a bunch
of people and this God that you don't really know.
(14:36):
Like very early on, by the time I was like
ten or eleven, I began to question the morals of
what I was being taught. It's just making me think
of like how like an organized religions tend to be
so patriarchal and oppressive, and then it makes me think
of like magic and witchcraft and that those kind of
traditions as being like disorganized religion like this, like feminist
(15:00):
disorganized religion, you know, where it's like more chaotic and individualistic,
you know, essentially. Um, I would say any practice that
connects um feminine people, and I think, you know, all
people to a certain extent, but I think because of
the history of misogyny and sexism, particularly feminine people with
(15:22):
their intuition, is a is a magical practice. And I
see things like, you know, reflective things, self reflective things
like tarot, like journaling, you know, like processing like talking shit. Um,
I see these like I see these as magical processes.
So are you telling me that gossip is part of
(15:43):
your spiritual practice? Yes, I mean they. I mean like
I feel like you and I might have talked about
this at one point, but there's actual research on, like
literally like academics doing research on the social social biology
and the social role of gossip among marginalized people and
(16:04):
how it's a way of like sharing information in an
underground sort of information tunnel and getting affirmation about like
your suspicions about certain people and uh, and how it's
really only wasps who don't gossip is what the research
kind of in conclusion, and so you know, as somebody
who's not a wasp, Like, of course that's part of
(16:27):
my part of my magical practice. I love it. I'm
wondering if you can elaborate on how diet culture impacts magic. Yeah,
I mean diet culture like viciously steals people's magic, um, right,
Like I think, you know, one of the first things
(16:47):
that magic, one of the principles of magic that I
subscribe to and that I think is so powerful, is
the notion of the interconnectivity of all things, you know,
the idea that like you know that the plants and
the trees, and the oceans, and the human body and
(17:08):
the galaxy and stars, um, that they're all connected, that
there is no difference, that we're all made of the
same thing, which again is physics um. But like also
magic um. But you know, like, and I think that
diet culture really comes from a very colonialist, patriarchal tradition,
(17:29):
which is one of hierarchy, which is absolutely it's about
cutting off the interconnectivity of all things, and it's about
saying it's about positioning human and particularly masculine dominion over
all things, like over the natural world. And diet culture
(17:50):
really comes from from that, from that ideology, right, and
the way that it shows up is the notion of
mind over matter. So one of the first things that um,
that diet culture does that it undercuts your ability to
have a beautiful and generative and pleasure driven relationship to
(18:13):
hunger and to eating, which are which are not only
like necessary for survival, but are literally biologically designed to
create pleasure. Um. And so diet culture goes in and says, nope,
that process has to be regulated, has to be controlled,
and has to be guilt written and write like the
(18:35):
same in the same way that it's the same methodology
around sexuality, right, UM, Like it's an idea that you have,
the idea that you have to control sexuality um. And
this thing that was biologically designed to help you connect
to others and to connect to yourself and to connect
to like, you know, your magic um is something that
(18:57):
has to be regulated and controlled and specifically um. You know.
I think that, Uh, there's this really explicit connection to
racism in that in the sense that like, right, the
whole reason that mind over matter I think became so
important and is still so important in our culture is
(19:17):
because of the idea that m that like white men
deserve to take over and inherit the earth because they
have that willpower, and that it is like, you know,
brown people and black people who don't have that more
animal relationship to the body and to the to earth,
(19:38):
and therefore you know, they need to be controlled, and
so a lot of times, right, like that that connection
show like right, So diet culture is already always about
a practice of racism, and it's already always about a
practice of like having a colonial relationship to the body.
Diet culture is like a master gas lighter um in
the sense that, like, you know, one of the first
(19:59):
things that people are taught or on diet culture is like,
you cannot trust your own hunger, which is which essentially
is saying you cannot trust your body, You cannot trust
your instincts. You always have to govern those things. And
and sort of like that that false separation from the
natural world, including our own animal bodies, us like a
(20:23):
really fast way to be entirely disconnected from yourself. I
gotta tuck a tarot cards here, Virgie. Do you want
me to pull some cards for you? Yes, I would
love that. What would you like to what should we
(20:45):
pull about? I doubt, Like, I mean, my first thought was, like,
you know, I'm kind I am kind of curious about
like one transition that I'm in right now that's really terrifying,
and really mostly it's just terrifying right now, but I'm
kind of aware that it's like leaning towards generative, but
(21:09):
it's one of finally accepting that, you know, don't have
to fight battles alone. And I mean literally, like three
days ago, I wrote in my Google calendar, I was
like day that I welcomed in the notion that I
need other people. Oh that's beautiful, and so I just
(21:32):
because I mean, like I mean, I've always known it,
but it's always been a very reluctant, not even acceptance.
It's almost like sort of like a reluctant, like you know,
it would be rude to believe that I that I like,
got here by myself, and I refused to be that person.
But also like, my god, I hate relying on other
people for literally anything, and so that transition into this,
(21:56):
so I don't I don't know, Like that's kind of
like my headspace is like you know what, Like maybe
the question would be like what are the tools I need? What? Um? Like,
what what is this problem? Where is this process heading?
I don't know, Like that's is that enough? But I
do want to ask you, um, what where do you
think the um the apprehension to rely on other folks,
(22:18):
Like where does that come from? Have you pinpointed that
in yourself? Oh? Yeah, I mean I'm I mean, you know,
like I'm a hugely parentified like I was parentified in childhood. Okay,
I'm a recovering adult child you know of alcoholic, dysfunctional
family people, and so yeah, like I'm just like, yeah,
I had to be my own mom when I was
like five. It comes from that and the sense of
(22:39):
like that that everything feels really high stakes, like one
hundred percent of the time, because it's like if I
don't do the thing, and I like me personally, I
don't take care of it, the world's gonna fall apart,
you know, I do? I do. That's a really classic
like way that when when kids are given way too
much responsibility and families like that's just that's a classic
(23:01):
way that you turn out as an adult. I'm going
to pick some cards and just to see, like what
does this path look like as you continue on it?
And then I'm going to pick cards from an oracle
deck I have that I really love that will offer
sort of suggestions of like what different kind of energies
and practices can support you. Okay, So right now I'm
shuffling and I'm just asking the deck. All right, So,
(23:24):
oh wow, virgie, So your first card that I pulled
for you is the Chariot, which is who really great.
I'm gonna pull all three and then get a little
deeper into each of them. So the first card is
the Chariot, Oh my god. The second card is the
Six of Cups, which in this deck is titled Pleasure okay, yes,
and it's Son in Scorpio. And then your final card
(23:45):
is the Hermit. This is beautiful. This is so beautiful.
So the Chariot is so interesting because it's a totally
positive card, right, and it's your victory is assured when
you get the Chariot card. But it's full title is
the Chariot of War, so it is talking about a fight,
like you're fighting against something, right, And it's like what
(24:07):
you're fighting for right now is like you're pleasure, like
you're because it is a pleasure. It's an emotional pleasure
when you allow yourself to be vulnerable, when you allow
yourself to like you know, Barber set it, people who
need people, they're the luckiest people on earth, right. So,
and the chariot is a it's cancer and um as
an it's an emotional water sign. So but it's you know,
(24:29):
the charioteer in the card is wearing this golden armor
and cancers are the crab, so you know, they are
this little creasure that is so tender that it comes
with this shell. So it's very interesting. It's like this
is a card that's a lot about feeling like you
need to be self protective, but it's also about like
in general, when the when the chariot car comes up,
(24:49):
it's like you're on a journey and you're fighting for
something and it might be a little bit of a
bumpy ride, but you are so committed you're holding on
like the crab does. And and that's and that's your
and that's your Taurus. You know, that's your Taurus nature.
I get that you're not stubborn about like intellectual areas.
You know, you're really open to points of view. But
(25:11):
I do think that that stubbornness might come through for
you in like your dedication to work and to not
being afraid of hard work. You know, in this deck,
the top deck, the charioteers also holding what is supposed
to be an amethyst bowl full of blood. It's a
little goth for you there, but it's about sacrifice. So
it's like you're willing to make a sacrifice to get
(25:31):
to this higher ground. And that higher ground is a
place of pleasure, you know, where you're able to access
like a deeper emotional It's it's Sun and Scorpio. Scorpios
are very deep, right, Their emotions run deep, and their
connections to other people run really deep. And that the
fact that the card is called pleasure. It's like this
is very away from that Queen of Swords card, which
(25:54):
is very icy and intellectual. You know, you're getting these
warm emotional cards. And then you got the Hermit, which
is really interesting, and I think the Hermit is coming
up because you know, the Hermit is the character who
has to do some really intense work on themselves and
they know that it's work that only they can do
and they've got to take the space to do it,
(26:15):
you know, and they've got to take like the alone
time and they've got to do the work. And it's
an Earth sign, it's Virgo, and so it's about giving
yourself the structure to kind of do that work. And
you know, the hermit goes away because he doesn't want
other people's influences. He wants to really see out what
is his core truth underneath it all. It's a really
(26:36):
beautiful card. It's very and you know, the rendering of
it in this deck, there's a It's also about fearlessness.
He has the three headed hound of Hell sort of
like you know, jumping on his leg and he's just
ignoring it. He's like ignoring he you know, he's like, Okay,
I get it. It's scary, but you know, like this
is my path and I'm really dedicated to it. And
(26:57):
it's about he's holding a lantern and the hermit in
all Taro, I think it's always holding a lantern and
it's just about finding your inner light, you know. And
so this is beautiful. I love this path for you.
I'm now going to pick out if you'd like this
oracle deck and it's called vessel. So I'm gonna just shuffle,
just asking. Okay, we see that Virgie is on this journey,
(27:18):
she's in the chariot, she's headed toward pleasure. She might
have to stop off at a roadside cave every now
and then and let her hermit, let her hermit out.
Your first card that you got is called Trust, and
it's this picture of this, yeah, of this like feminine
person with her head back and her eyes closed and
her long hair is cascading, and there's like a green
(27:39):
hand with a heart on the palm and a red
hand with the heart on the palm. It's very like notebook,
dutily looking, but also like mystical. And your second one
is begin the car and it is an eight pointed
starve that's red with like bursts coming out of it,
like like rays of light, and also hearts and diamonds.
(28:02):
It's really explosive looking. And then you have forgiven right
stuff here, man, I know. So it's like, wow, here
we go trust, you know, And so much of the
work that you do in the world is getting people
to trust their intuition again. And it's like you practicing
that yourself, you know, and trusting your path that you're
(28:25):
on and trusting the decisions that you've had to make,
and then begin like every day. It just makes me think,
how like every day we begin again, right, we begin
our day and new and so like every day like
beginning this practice over again, right, even though it's a
path that you've been on for a while, just to
know that it's like it's going to manifest in a
new way every day, Like new aspects of it will
(28:47):
manifest itself, New aspects of your own interior will reveal itself.
So the sense of always beginning, but in a really
positive way, right, And then forgive. I'm sorry you got
the forgiveness card. I think forgiveness is highly overrated in
the h and the spiritual community. Frankly, I think we
need to make some more room for holy resentment. But
(29:10):
you know there, yes, Virgie as I just think everything
has a time and a place, and you can't force
forgive forgiveness right well, and Michelle might be like forgiving myself,
I mean like we can we can claim that process
or like when you when you when you told me
that it was forgive, my brain was immediately like, you know,
there's obviously the traditional understanding of like forgiving the people
(29:31):
who wronged you, but it's also like it can be
forgiving ourselves. It can be like, you know, just because
I forgive the wrong the wrong door, it doesn't mean
I have to do anything else, you know, Like I
can just make that gift for myself. It doesn't have
to be about doing anything in the physical world with them,
you know. Yeah, you can forgive somebody and that doesn't
mean you want to like be their bestie afterwards. You
(29:52):
can just sort of acknowledge, Yeah, you can just acknowledge
like it's okay, Like I understand complicated forces, you know,
worked together to make this terrible situation happen maybe for
both of us, and I release I'm releasing myself from
it totally hoof Yeah, seriously. And you know something, and
what's really interesting is I picked three cards from each deck,
(30:14):
and so underneath the chariot is trust, and I feel
like I feel like they're having a little bit of
a relationship. So it's like trusting your journey, trusting trusting
what you're the direction that you're heading in, trusting the
gusto that you're sort of applying to this path, and
then underneath pleasure is begin right, so begin a deeper
you know, exploration of pleasure, a deeper um, you know,
(30:35):
reverence of pleasure. And then underneath the hermit is forgive.
So it is this sort of like like going off
and it's very internal. It's an internal process where you
need your internal light to guide you and know that
it's like it's coming purely from you, and it's not
a pressure from like the culture, because I feel like
the culture puts a lot of pressure of forgiveness as
(30:56):
a virtue and you know, and I just very suspicious
of as a you know, I just feel like, you know,
it's like let's deconstruct the power dynamics and who that benefits.
But you know, it is also true that resentment can
harm us internally. So I love this. I love this
for you. It's really deep and it's really beautiful. Oh
(31:19):
I've been like literally tearing up and trying like I
just you know, like the whole time. So it's feel
it feel like it really resonated really deeply. So thank you,
hello listeners. This is brand and I do magical work
under the name Magic Hour, and this is a spell
(31:43):
to create space for the dark. Big, powerful emotions can
push us into a new direction. They are a catalyst
for transformation. They help raise our heart rate, spark our passions,
and fuel our voice for change, and this change leads
to growth. Growth can ignite revolution, and revolution can bring
(32:07):
much needed justice. For inspiration, envision those revolutionary people who
allow their big emotions to be expressed and felt deeply,
those who channel it through activism and through their art. Now,
I believe all emotions are on a continuum, and I
(32:28):
like to think of this continuum as a rainbow. Feelings
like happiness, joy, and excitement are part of the day rainbow,
and feelings like rage, anger, and grief are part of
the night rainbow. All emotions are valid and exist here
in a non judgment zone. Both sides of the rainbow
(32:50):
meet at the crossroads of the earth to form a
full and beautiful circle. Now, to magically work with the darkness,
we need to space for it. For this spell, We're
going to make an altar space to honor the dark
and to create a place to express the emotions of
the night rainbow. You will need an offering for the dark,
(33:15):
goddess or deity that you work with today, I'm using
black hello wore flowers from my garden, a pen and paper,
a bowl of salt water, a dark colored rock or
two I'm using a black tourmaline and a gray river rock.
A black or dark colored candle holding the intention of
(33:38):
honoring the darkness. Arrange the items on your altar, one
at a time. As you place the offering for the
dark goddess, imagine the grand doorway to spirit easily opening
for you. As you place the salty cauldron, think or
say the words, my grief and fear is sacred. As
(34:02):
you place the strong rocks, think or say the words,
my disgust and fatigue is sacred. As you place and
light the candle of change, think or say the words,
my anger and rage is sacred. Lastly, you're going to
(34:22):
charge the altar with a poem by Wendell Berry. Write
this poem on a piece of paper and place it
directly on your altar. Repeat these words whenever you want
to magically connect with the dark places. To go in
the dark with a light is to know the light.
To know the dark. Go dark, go without sight and
(34:48):
find that the dark too blooms and sings and is
traveled by dark feet and dark wings. Find yourself using
this altar wherever you need a space to express your
shadow places and big emotions. Cry, scream, right or sing.
(35:10):
Spirit can handle it for here. Your magic honors the
complexities of the powerful dark. Thank you, Brand Taylor. I
love that so much. This whole concept of the day
(35:31):
rainbow and the night rainbow such a simple and strong
way to think about the polarities of our emotions and
honor them. If you want more of Brand's magic wisdom
in your life, please check out Magic Hour. They're enchanted
Candle Company. They're really special. Thanks for tuning into your magic.
Make sure you follow us on Twitter and Instagram at
This is Your Magic. You can subscribe right here on Spotify.
(35:52):
Just do what you have to do so you don't
miss an episode, and sign up for our newsletter at
this is Your Magic dot Com and get more musings
from our team of spiritual seekers. Also, you can email
us at hello if this is your Magic dot Com,
we would love to hear from you. This episode was
produced and edited by Molly Elizalde, Tony Gannon, and Raven Yamamoto.
(36:13):
We got production support from Veronica A. Guard, Christine Marr
and Vera Blossom. Our executive producers are Ben Cooley, myself
and Molly Elizalde. Our original theme music is by John Kimbro.
Tune in next week for a conversation with poet Morgan Parker.
Thanks for listening, Gosh. I hope you enjoyed that conversation
(36:41):
as much as I did listening back. It's so clear
that one it's not only dudes in lab codes who
can understand life's mysteries. Two, Cassowaries our excellent proof that
just because something has a name doesn't mean it's not
totally out of this world. And three, any practice you love,
from journaling to gossiping, can help you reconnect to your magic,
(37:03):
intuition and desire. You can check out more episodes of
Your Magic Only on Spotify, or you can find the
crew on Twitter and Instagram at this is Your Magic
and stay tuned for a full season three of Rebel
Eaters Club will be dropping new episodes starting May third,
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