May 10, 2022 • 30 mins
Vishinna Turner tells Virgie about growing up fat, Black, and punk in Fresno, CA. Spoiler alert: it wasn’t easy! But Vishinna also shares how art and friendship saved her life and helped her on the path to self love.
Topics include:
Creme Brulee [01:58]
Pressure to Fit In [04:37]
Growing Up In Fresno [06:57]
Finding Yourself with Punk Music [10:01]
“Being Yourself at the Buffet” [14:54]
Fat Representation [16:34]
“Fat Girl Tears” [19:15]
Being True to Yourself [27:05]
Learn more about Vishinna’s band Fatty Cakes & the Puff Pastries and listen to their music at fattycakesband.com. And check out Vishinna’s other band Squid Ink! at squidinkband.bandcamp.com. Follow @virgietovar and @transmitterpods to stay up to date on all things Rebel Eaters Club. And make sure to visit rebeleatersclub.com to download your starter pack if you haven’t already!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
From Transmitter Media. This is a rebel eaters club and
I'm your host, Virgie Tobar. I can't wait for you
to meet my guest today. Her name is Vashina Turner.
Vashina is an artist and musician based out of Fresno, California.
She is the bassist in one of my all time
favorite bands, Fatty Cakes and the Puff Pastries. They have
(00:26):
a riot girl sound and they sing about things like
working at the mall and navigating fat phobia. They hand
out pizza from the stage. They have backup singers called
the Casadia Angels. The lead singer Amber plays the xylophone
while wailing into the mic, and Vashina is right there
front and center stage with Amber shredding on her bass.
(00:54):
They are awesome. The first time I saw them perform,
it was like that scene in Wayne World, the first
time Wage sees Cassandra heart eyes for days. WHOA. But
before that magical moment, Vashina was deep in diet culture
for a long time, and her relationship to her base
(01:16):
and to being in a band coincided with her decision
to stop trying to make herself small. I love how
she taught me that creativity and art can be part
of saying goodbye to diet culture forever. Sorry, sorry, no, Vashina,
(01:45):
Welcome to Rebel Eaters Club. Hello, thank you for having me.
I'm just so excited to talk to you. Before we
even get started into the questions, we have to have
our snack. Okay, what are we eating together today? Oh?
So we will be snacking on one of my most favorite,
(02:05):
most delicious and decadent treats, crime brolet. I love that
you can like crack that sugar on the top. It's
very like creamy and very textural. So that's why I
ended up wanting to do this with you, because you know,
you're just so perfect and textural. Oh my goodness, I
feel the same way about you. Odd thing. I have
(02:28):
many thoughts about the crembro let as metaphor for our
entire relationship, but I'll get into that in a minute.
Should we tap the sugar together for the for the
benefit of those listening? Oh, let's do that, Yes, okay? Three? Two,
one ooh ooh. I hit the plate too. Oh my god,
I love it. M and mine came with fruit, so
(02:55):
I just got a raspberry and mine was just really good.
I love that. I mean, I just took my first
bite and I'm just immediately transported. It's like this whole
body experience. It's like the caramelized sugar, It's just so good.
And then the creaminess. It's thick with like three seas
(03:16):
maybe fourteen seas, like thick um, and I just love
as creamy dessert. That's like the same same, I have
to tell you ahead m hmm. When I found out
(03:36):
that you had chosen Crembroulet Um, I was so excited
because Crembroulet and Tirammy Sue were like rallying cries for
me after I left diet culture, like I had been
in the prison of diet culture for so long, and
all I wanted was these foods that symbolized in my
(03:56):
mind like such a celebration of life, yes, and a
celebration of the body and its capacity to feel, you know,
after years of diet culture, it felt like those were
those were like my patriarchy smashing tools of choice. Was
I was like, yeah, I'm going to talk about you,
and I'm going to be a feminist and I'm going
to write about this, but I'm also going to just
(04:21):
bask in pleasure and deliciousness and all the things that
I felt like I had been told I wasn't allowed
to have as both a fat person and I think
as a woman. Dessert was sort of this symbol of
aliveness that felt really powerful. I mirror that so much because,
you know, like so much of my young life was
(04:43):
like really trying to fit into a space that I
will never be able to be admitted into, you know,
like as a fat, black queer woman, you know, like
I had to or I felt at least that I
had to try to fit into a society that I,
like I said that I would never actually fit into.
But one of the coolest moments was like after high school,
(05:04):
like leaving that space of feeling like you're under this microscope.
Like after leaving that feeling in that space, actually got
a job at a French bakery and I would ride
my bike to work and every day at the end
of the day we would like be able to take
snacks home, and like I would always ride home with
(05:26):
my little baguettes and my little crim broulets and my
little fruit tarts, seeing now like just in my basket,
and you know, I just in those moments, I just
felt so free and so like comfortable in my body,
and I wanted the world to know I was about
to eat all this delicious food. And so I feel
(05:47):
like those those really for me were the days of
accepting accepting this body that I'm in and loving it
and like really treating it to the finest, finest desserts,
you know us. And I think that the element that
is really powerful about it too is sort of that
it's a little extra, you know, like there's something a
(06:07):
little bit like that sense of you know, I'm not
just going to make peace with food. I am going
to love the fucking shit out of food. And I
feel like for me, that's what this dessert represents absolutely.
And I never would have imagined being able to eat
French pastry like and be happy and fat, you know,
(06:29):
like I would never have thought of that as a kid.
You know, there's just so many other layers of other
people's things that made it so that I felt I
wasn't worthy of this food. Yes, I mean I want
to go back to that little shy kid who didn't
feel like they could take up a lot of space.
Can you talk about what your upbringing was like when
(06:51):
it comes to food and eating, Like, what lessons did
you pick up where and how Oh, so most of
my family is fat, you know, like we have lived
this life. This is us. But with that being said,
because we are also black, because I live in a
very conservative town that is primarily white, there was a
(07:12):
lot of trying to fit into whiteness so that we
could survive, you know, and so fatness came into that.
It was a part of that. It was like, okay,
so you have to be small. You have to make
sure that nobody's looking at you or picking you out
or othering you. So you have to try to fit
in right, you have to be little. And my mother
(07:35):
at some point was like, cool, let's get you on
some diet pills or going to get you on a
meal plan. We're going to figure this out. You know.
There was just a lot of practice of making sure
that people didn't know we were poor, make sure people
didn't like pay so much attention to my blackness or fatness,
you know, Like I had to try to divert a lot.
(07:55):
But then eventually I just looked around, to be honest,
I just looked around at my aunties and my cousins
and my mom herself, you know, and I just like,
look at how happy we are together. Look at how
much we enjoy cooking. Like my mother's a caterers sometimes,
and Nike has her own business. But we spent so
(08:16):
much time like trying to fit into the spaces that
we were in that I felt like I couldn't even
be excited about food when I was younger. I couldn't
even be happy that my mom was making this giant
pot of gumbo, you know that smelled delicious, Like I
could smell it on my walk home from school, you know,
like all the way like it just I couldn't be
(08:37):
happy about those things, it felt like. But as I
grew up, as as my relationship with my mother and
family progressed, we started celebrating each other so much more,
and even helping with my mother's business and so like,
really the denial of food started wearing away. Yeah, I
(08:58):
just then became more of a celebration of taste and
flavor and her being really successful in being a cook,
And so it just became less important to fit into
white culture because we finally had something that we could
do with each other that we could like celebrate as
a family. Yeah, I mean I really relate to parts
(09:22):
of what you're talking about. I think in my house,
diet culture and restriction was about assimilating into whiteness and americanness,
like American ways of eating. And also I don't think
I'd ever really realize it until you just said it,
that fitting in is about being small. Whether it's your
(09:44):
energy or your passion or your love or how you
eat or your body. You know, we're expected to shave
these things down, and that it's one hundred percent connected
to survival. Yes, even how you speak and when you
laugh or enjoy life, you know you have to do
it quietly. Yes, absolutely. And I'm kind of curious, right,
(10:05):
like what was happening as you were transitioning from this
person who was a little bit, you know, trying to
fit in to someone who was on this amazing beach
cruiser with baguettes and Crme brulet, Like did you have
an artistic practice and how did that shift when you
(10:26):
started to sort of make that shift in your own life. Oh? So,
I feel like first it was going to punk shows,
to be honest, Like, you know, I came from a
household of folks who loved gangster app and R and
B and gospel music and all this stuff. So just
even going to a space where the music was so
different was already a big change in my life, but
(10:49):
I loved it. I loved like, Okay, cool, I'm going
to step out of the archetype that I've seen in
front of me. I want to experience bumping into a
bunch of people at a show, and I want to
experience like being on stage and screaming about my experiences.
I want to be able to create in all of
(11:10):
these different ways. So I really just started going to shows.
And then one of the shows i'd gone to was
this band Needy Evy and Audrey, the drummer for Fatty
Cakes now was the drummer in that band, And truly
I fell in love. It was an all girl band.
They were playing like punk and indie music. They were
(11:31):
taking up a space that it was. The lineup was
nothing but men and them, you know, and you know,
I would stand toward the back, you know, because I
kind of didn't want to like disrupt. Even at that moment,
I was still diminishing myself, you know. Even then at first,
I was still trying to be the black girl in
(11:52):
the back so that I wasn't picked out. But I
just fell in love with watching them play. I needed
that space. I just I felt so powered seeing another
black person taking up space in this world that again
was never afforded to us. So I just kept watching them.
Watching them was like, Oh, I'm gonna get in a
band that's all women. We're gonna do this. It's gonna
(12:14):
be so much fun. And that just changed my whole life. Yes, yes,
I mean I'm sort of curious if like for you, like,
what does your creative practice like, I mean, I'm curious
about that you're talking about how it emerged at the
same time as you sort of made these decisions to
stop trying to fit into certain molds, like what role
(12:36):
did diet culture and your relationship to food play in that?
So just in general, starting to play music really helped
me just evolve into body acceptance in general, into all
like all the way into body love and positivity, which
(12:57):
is I feel like what Fatty Cakes is right now,
but just the start of music in general. My first band,
they put me in the front. I was the lead,
and I had never played my instrument before. I had
never been the lead before, and so taking up that
space really helped me to see myself fully and to
(13:19):
experience my body and other people viewing me without judgment,
you know, and even being excited, you know, like people
were so supportive. I just really grew into like loving
and performing fatness, like with fatty Cakes for sure. And
so I really I feel like fatty Cakes is the
(13:43):
culmination of riding my bike and playing in a band
and working at a bakery and finding love through my
relationships with my friends, like passing out pizza while we
see pizza girl friend and having a food fight with you,
Virgie while we did fat girl tears, and doing all
(14:06):
of the creative things around being a fat person has
I don't know, just really like evolved me. I feel
like I met my full charmander, you know, Bullard. Yes, yeah,
(14:41):
passing out pizza was like to me was already the
most exciting and fun and inventive way to talk about
eating food in public and being yourself at the buffet
and yeah, just truly living in the moment. Oh, I
love that. Can you talk little bit more about being
(15:02):
yourself at the buffet? Yeah? So that is one of
my favorite fatty Cakes lines, be yourself at the buffet,
Because you know, I don't know if you've well, I'm
sure you have experiences. First of all, people will watch
you eat if you are a fat person. If you
are at a buffet and you fill up your plate,
(15:23):
there look at you. You know, they're like, you know,
like there's so much judgment around you, and so being
yourself at the buffet is so important. I want you
to see me have fun and enjoy this life because
I should. I have every right, you know, and so
it feels good to carry that sentiment, you know, And
(15:43):
I think of that every time we go out, like
every time I go do something for myself. Every time
I want to eat, like, I will go in because
that's what I want to do. And I want to
live this life, enjoying this body, enjoying my taste buds,
and I want to experience my senses. Right. I want
people to hear that you can live that life, you know,
(16:05):
because it took so long for me to get there.
It took years. It took going through being in bands
with men and not really having a space to talk
about my femininity, my queerness, my fatness, my blackness. You know.
It took all of that to get to where I
am right now. And I just want those steps to
be so much, so much shorter for people, you know, like,
(16:28):
I want it to be so much quicker to get
to that point of seeing yourself as worthy and beautiful.
You know. Oh, yes, I think there's there really is
a power in because right like, for the most part,
the people we see on stage are the people who
the culture tells us we're supposed to be like. And
(16:50):
so you know, often they're thin people. Often they're white people.
Often they're straight people and just people and able bodied people,
and I think there is that extraordinary power or when
you see someone who sort of quote unquote maybe like
it doesn't quite fit in the picture, it's so powerful.
It's so intoxicating because it really is like that sense
(17:12):
of you know, who gets to have all eyes on them,
who gets to have that moment where people are inspired
by them? And I think it's very disruptive when that's
a fat person or a black person or a queer person,
And that's that's I feel like that's what you're talking about, Yes,
the representation. It is really about the representation, because to
see somebody break out of that mold is so powerful
(17:36):
that it is inspiring, Like and really just to watch
somebody who you who you assume shouldn't be in that space.
Create movement in that space, like literal movement, people are stoked,
running around, cheering, bouncing off each other, like loving each other,
picking each other up when they fall. Like watching folks
(17:57):
be in this community because of this person who's breaking
the mold is so it's fire. It's literal fire inside
of you. You know. It just made it so that
I needed to I needed to be there, and I
wanted to do that too. I wanted other people to
see this fat body, this black person talk about how
(18:18):
this political world is fucked up, how racism and Nazis
are fucked up. You know, like I want people to
see this fat black body talk about how working at
them all sucks, you know, like it just it's important,
you know, it's important. And it goes back to that
feeling of taking these big leaps instead of baby steps
(18:40):
that I felt like I took. For instance, we played
this show in Freso. It's like a kind of like
a bigger show. It's called Grizzly Fest here, and my niece,
who was probably six at the time, was so excited
that I got to be on this stage, and so
we actually invited her up on the stage with us
for that show. So she brought like a cute little
(19:01):
ukulele and she had this whole outfit plan, you know,
like she she got to be in the limelight and
like it just it touched me so much because again,
if I was her age and I got to see that,
like it would have changed my life. I just I
just love that I can be a part of that
for other people, you know, Uh yes, yes, so Vashina
(19:22):
one of Fatty Cakes and the puff Pastries, you know,
absolute most iconic songs, it's fat Girl Tears. Because can
(19:45):
you tell us a little bit about tell us a
little about the song, like what what story is fact
girl tears weaving? Um, what's the background? You know, tell
me a little bit about the process. So fat Girl Tears.
Um Amber wrote the lyrics for Girl Tears about you know,
being fat in the world and people fearing having a
(20:06):
fat body like yours, you know, living through that trauma
of not being accepted in this world yet still having
and loving this body, and instead of fighting to change
to make yourself small or diminish yourself like we talked
about before, you would cry it out and then go
on living in us who came up with the idea
(21:02):
to have a food fight for the music video. Okay,
so that was a collective effort because we all were
trying to figure out, like what should we do for
this video. We know, we want to have all of
these iconic fat activists or iconic artists, and we even
had like Keizaiah Horrell and Jasmine Leavey, Like we just
(21:22):
had all of these people who do work in activism,
and so we're like, cool, so what are we going
to do with all these fun people? And then I
think during a practice we were all like, oh my god,
we should have a food fight. It's gonna be so
much fun. And it truly was, like we went in
it was so so much fun. Oh. I just remember
(21:43):
Craig Caulderwood. She is an amazing artist in San Francisco.
I remember her throwing a full hamburger and it's sticking
to my belly. Like it was so just the just
the most amazing experience. Because what kid in the world
(22:05):
like doesn't want to have a food fight with their friends,
you know, like who doesn't have that dream at some point?
You know? Yeah, like that's like the food fight is
one of the most iconic cinematic kid movie moments, and
I feel like it never happens in real life. It's like,
I mean, I grew up sort of always hoping that
moment was about to happen, and it never did. Yees
(22:29):
to like live it now in my thirties was such
a treat. Yeah, that was the moment I will never forget.
And we actually also at the end we tried to
take photos of ourselves and we're just like sliding around
on all this food on the ground. The whole thing
was just so powerful for so many reasons. But like
(22:52):
you know, to have all like all these fat bodied
people dancing to begin with, right, like being in a
music video. Wow, And then you've got all of these
foods like specifically that are sort of quote unquote off
limits for fat people who are expected to always be
dieting and always be restricting food and certainly you're not
allowed to you know, enjoy it, let alone in public,
(23:15):
let alone throw it at people on film. And it
was the role breaking gorgeousness of that was just so incredible. Yes, yes,
I love that idea too, of off limit foods, like,
oh my gosh, so many of those things like Crimberula
was like that for me that was one of those things.
(23:35):
It was off limits because it's super quote unquote fatty foods.
It's it's expensive, it's like all of the things. Yes,
And it was just like I felt like it was
like a fat utopia, Like I feel like, I don't know.
I mean, I'm realizing that I think that I think
we have this idea that food and eating are kind
(23:56):
of this they're utilitarian, so they can't be part of
a creative practice. They can't. But I'm like realizing as
I'm talking to you that food and eating are one
hundred percent also part of a creative practice. What do
you think true? Yes? Yes, yes, First of all, I
(24:17):
love watching folks eat. I love being in this space
where I am feeding them the delicious food. Like it
really is this this full sensory like amalgam of creativity
and and nourishment. It is art. Food is art. Oh
that's incredible. I mean I'm curious right, like you're talking
(24:40):
about that journey from literally the back of the room
to now you're on stage eating pizza at shows and
screaming and singing and your front and center. You know,
I'm curious, like have you arrived? Like what is next?
For you. I want to keep going. I want to
travel the world like I would love to play this
zick in other countries I actually like for the I
(25:05):
don't know if you get to see those things, but
at the end of the year, Spotify does those things
of like you've touched this mini country, your music has
been played in these places, right, So each year I
love doing this like end of the year things so
I can see where we have been played. And some
countries are so like um, anti gay and very fat phobic.
(25:29):
Still you know, lightning and in a space again where
I felt like I lived as a kid, And to
think of fuck you and your neo Nazi friends or
fat girl tears being played in spaces like that is
what I've always wanted. So yeah, there is this feeling
of yes, I've arrived, I've arrived in this body, I've
(25:50):
arrived in this consciousness. I'm even seeing the effect on
other people. You know, actually cried with a fan at
a show. We just talked about trauma and abuse and
stuff and how when we were younger, we we went
through those things and how this music that I'm playing
now makes them feel empowered and that empowered me even more.
(26:11):
You know like at first this music was just to
help me heal us heals us friends, you know, like
we were just going through things in life and we
wanted to talk about it, right, yes, And so I
really feel like seeing that the music that we use
to heal is now healing other people does make me
feel like, oh my gosh, this is it. This is
(26:33):
what it's like, right, Like, this is what this is.
What anybody would want when they create, is to be
able to touch somebody. So yeah, I do have this
feeling of yes, I've arrived, But I also have this
feeling of like, let's keep going. I love it, Let's go.
And I would never have imagined at all. I would
(26:54):
never have imagined that this is what my life would
be like when I was that girl that bike, you know,
like I could never never have imagined that this is
where we would be. So I mean it's like, I
mean that sense of possibility. I don't know, it's just
so beautiful. Like for the person who maybe is creatively
(27:18):
inclined and is just like, can't I can't be broke,
I can't be that creative person in this body, what
would you tell them? Like, what word's the tool that
you would want to give them, Oh that looking at
life through others people's lenses is never ever gonna work.
You have to do what makes you feel good in
(27:39):
the moment, because sometimes that thing that made you feel
good in that moment is going to make someone else
feel good, is going to feel like healing to you
even is going to get you to where you never
knew you could go, because you're living in your truth,
in your body in that second, you know, I felt
like I spent a lot of time trying to figure
(28:00):
out what my future would look like with the lens
of other folks. Yes, and it was just such a setback.
It was such a creative stunter, you know, like you
just really can't you can't function in that, you know,
And so yeah, I would. I would absolutely say that.
I know everyone says this, but be true to yourself,
be true to your creative process, even if you feel
(28:21):
like no one's gonna understand, Like, it's not about them,
It's about you expressing who you are in that moment,
because to look back, like to look back on the
art that you make before you knew what you know now,
before you're the person you are now, is that healing.
So I would just say, well, hease, don't stop doing
(28:41):
what makes you feel good in this time, because it
will get you so much further, so much faster, to
live it in your own truth and in your own body. Hina,
thank you so much for being on the show. Isn't
such a pleasure getting to talk with you? Well, you too,
(29:03):
Thank you so much for having me. This is wonderful.
Thank you for this delicious crimblet I'm living. I'm gonna
go record today and think about you that I love that.
Thank you, Bushina. I'm in love with her. I know
(29:27):
you are too, Bashina, thank you for existing. Okay, So,
just to recap, Vashina taught us the importance of displaying
French pastries as you cruise blissfully around town, how much
fun food fights can be, the power of seeing bodies
like yours front and center, and how friendship and art
can save your life. What did you think? What's your
(29:50):
version of Vaschina's base? What are the practices that help
remind you that you deserve more than diet culture? Reach
out dm me on socials at Virgie Tovar, DMR producers
at Transmitter Pods, shoot us a message at Rebel Eaters
Club at gmail dot com. Rebel Eaters Club is brought
(30:11):
to you by Transmittermedia. This episode was written and produced
by Isabelle Carter. Sarah Knicks is Transmitters Executive editor. Wilson
Sarah is our managing producer, and Greta Khan is our
executive producer and I'm your host, Virgie tovar Rick Kwan
is our mix engineer. Thanks to Taka Yasuzawa, who wrote
some of the music we use this episode, and special
(30:31):
thanks to Fatty Cakes in the Puff Pastries for permission
to use their music in this episode. You can find
them and by their albums at fatty Cakes dot bandcamp
dot com. If you love Rebel Eaters Club, tell your
friends and share the love by writing a review on
your favorite podcast app. See you next week.
From Transmitter Media. This is a rebel eaters club and
I'm your host, Virgie Tobar. I can't wait for you
to meet my guest today. Her name is Vashina Turner.
Vashina is an artist and musician based out of Fresno, California.
She is the bassist in one of my all time
favorite bands, Fatty Cakes and the Puff Pastries. They have
(00:26):
a riot girl sound and they sing about things like
working at the mall and navigating fat phobia. They hand
out pizza from the stage. They have backup singers called
the Casadia Angels. The lead singer Amber plays the xylophone
while wailing into the mic, and Vashina is right there
front and center stage with Amber shredding on her bass.
(00:54):
They are awesome. The first time I saw them perform,
it was like that scene in Wayne World, the first
time Wage sees Cassandra heart eyes for days. WHOA. But
before that magical moment, Vashina was deep in diet culture
for a long time, and her relationship to her base
(01:16):
and to being in a band coincided with her decision
to stop trying to make herself small. I love how
she taught me that creativity and art can be part
of saying goodbye to diet culture forever. Sorry, sorry, no, Vashina,
(01:45):
Welcome to Rebel Eaters Club. Hello, thank you for having me.
I'm just so excited to talk to you. Before we
even get started into the questions, we have to have
our snack. Okay, what are we eating together today? Oh?
So we will be snacking on one of my most favorite,
(02:05):
most delicious and decadent treats, crime brolet. I love that
you can like crack that sugar on the top. It's
very like creamy and very textural. So that's why I
ended up wanting to do this with you, because you know,
you're just so perfect and textural. Oh my goodness, I
feel the same way about you. Odd thing. I have
(02:28):
many thoughts about the crembro let as metaphor for our
entire relationship, but I'll get into that in a minute.
Should we tap the sugar together for the for the
benefit of those listening? Oh, let's do that, Yes, okay? Three? Two,
one ooh ooh. I hit the plate too. Oh my god,
I love it. M and mine came with fruit, so
(02:55):
I just got a raspberry and mine was just really good.
I love that. I mean, I just took my first
bite and I'm just immediately transported. It's like this whole
body experience. It's like the caramelized sugar, It's just so good.
And then the creaminess. It's thick with like three seas
(03:16):
maybe fourteen seas, like thick um, and I just love
as creamy dessert. That's like the same same, I have
to tell you ahead m hmm. When I found out
(03:36):
that you had chosen Crembroulet Um, I was so excited
because Crembroulet and Tirammy Sue were like rallying cries for
me after I left diet culture, like I had been
in the prison of diet culture for so long, and
all I wanted was these foods that symbolized in my
(03:56):
mind like such a celebration of life, yes, and a
celebration of the body and its capacity to feel, you know,
after years of diet culture, it felt like those were
those were like my patriarchy smashing tools of choice. Was
I was like, yeah, I'm going to talk about you,
and I'm going to be a feminist and I'm going
to write about this, but I'm also going to just
(04:21):
bask in pleasure and deliciousness and all the things that
I felt like I had been told I wasn't allowed
to have as both a fat person and I think
as a woman. Dessert was sort of this symbol of
aliveness that felt really powerful. I mirror that so much because,
you know, like so much of my young life was
(04:43):
like really trying to fit into a space that I
will never be able to be admitted into, you know,
like as a fat, black queer woman, you know, like
I had to or I felt at least that I
had to try to fit into a society that I,
like I said that I would never actually fit into.
But one of the coolest moments was like after high school,
(05:04):
like leaving that space of feeling like you're under this microscope.
Like after leaving that feeling in that space, actually got
a job at a French bakery and I would ride
my bike to work and every day at the end
of the day we would like be able to take
snacks home, and like I would always ride home with
(05:26):
my little baguettes and my little crim broulets and my
little fruit tarts, seeing now like just in my basket,
and you know, I just in those moments, I just
felt so free and so like comfortable in my body,
and I wanted the world to know I was about
to eat all this delicious food. And so I feel
(05:47):
like those those really for me were the days of
accepting accepting this body that I'm in and loving it
and like really treating it to the finest, finest desserts,
you know us. And I think that the element that
is really powerful about it too is sort of that
it's a little extra, you know, like there's something a
(06:07):
little bit like that sense of you know, I'm not
just going to make peace with food. I am going
to love the fucking shit out of food. And I
feel like for me, that's what this dessert represents absolutely.
And I never would have imagined being able to eat
French pastry like and be happy and fat, you know,
(06:29):
like I would never have thought of that as a kid.
You know, there's just so many other layers of other
people's things that made it so that I felt I
wasn't worthy of this food. Yes, I mean I want
to go back to that little shy kid who didn't
feel like they could take up a lot of space.
Can you talk about what your upbringing was like when
(06:51):
it comes to food and eating, Like, what lessons did
you pick up where and how Oh, so most of
my family is fat, you know, like we have lived
this life. This is us. But with that being said,
because we are also black, because I live in a
very conservative town that is primarily white, there was a
(07:12):
lot of trying to fit into whiteness so that we
could survive, you know, and so fatness came into that.
It was a part of that. It was like, okay,
so you have to be small. You have to make
sure that nobody's looking at you or picking you out
or othering you. So you have to try to fit
in right, you have to be little. And my mother
(07:35):
at some point was like, cool, let's get you on
some diet pills or going to get you on a
meal plan. We're going to figure this out. You know.
There was just a lot of practice of making sure
that people didn't know we were poor, make sure people
didn't like pay so much attention to my blackness or fatness,
you know, Like I had to try to divert a lot.
(07:55):
But then eventually I just looked around, to be honest,
I just looked around at my aunties and my cousins
and my mom herself, you know, and I just like,
look at how happy we are together. Look at how
much we enjoy cooking. Like my mother's a caterers sometimes,
and Nike has her own business. But we spent so
(08:16):
much time like trying to fit into the spaces that
we were in that I felt like I couldn't even
be excited about food when I was younger. I couldn't
even be happy that my mom was making this giant
pot of gumbo, you know that smelled delicious, Like I
could smell it on my walk home from school, you know,
like all the way like it just I couldn't be
(08:37):
happy about those things, it felt like. But as I
grew up, as as my relationship with my mother and
family progressed, we started celebrating each other so much more,
and even helping with my mother's business and so like,
really the denial of food started wearing away. Yeah, I
(08:58):
just then became more of a celebration of taste and
flavor and her being really successful in being a cook,
And so it just became less important to fit into
white culture because we finally had something that we could
do with each other that we could like celebrate as
a family. Yeah, I mean I really relate to parts
(09:22):
of what you're talking about. I think in my house,
diet culture and restriction was about assimilating into whiteness and americanness,
like American ways of eating. And also I don't think
I'd ever really realize it until you just said it,
that fitting in is about being small. Whether it's your
(09:44):
energy or your passion or your love or how you
eat or your body. You know, we're expected to shave
these things down, and that it's one hundred percent connected
to survival. Yes, even how you speak and when you
laugh or enjoy life, you know you have to do
it quietly. Yes, absolutely. And I'm kind of curious, right,
(10:05):
like what was happening as you were transitioning from this
person who was a little bit, you know, trying to
fit in to someone who was on this amazing beach
cruiser with baguettes and Crme brulet, Like did you have
an artistic practice and how did that shift when you
(10:26):
started to sort of make that shift in your own life. Oh? So,
I feel like first it was going to punk shows,
to be honest, Like, you know, I came from a
household of folks who loved gangster app and R and
B and gospel music and all this stuff. So just
even going to a space where the music was so
different was already a big change in my life, but
(10:49):
I loved it. I loved like, Okay, cool, I'm going
to step out of the archetype that I've seen in
front of me. I want to experience bumping into a
bunch of people at a show, and I want to
experience like being on stage and screaming about my experiences.
I want to be able to create in all of
(11:10):
these different ways. So I really just started going to shows.
And then one of the shows i'd gone to was
this band Needy Evy and Audrey, the drummer for Fatty
Cakes now was the drummer in that band, And truly
I fell in love. It was an all girl band.
They were playing like punk and indie music. They were
(11:31):
taking up a space that it was. The lineup was
nothing but men and them, you know, and you know,
I would stand toward the back, you know, because I
kind of didn't want to like disrupt. Even at that moment,
I was still diminishing myself, you know. Even then at first,
I was still trying to be the black girl in
(11:52):
the back so that I wasn't picked out. But I
just fell in love with watching them play. I needed
that space. I just I felt so powered seeing another
black person taking up space in this world that again
was never afforded to us. So I just kept watching them.
Watching them was like, Oh, I'm gonna get in a
band that's all women. We're gonna do this. It's gonna
(12:14):
be so much fun. And that just changed my whole life. Yes, yes,
I mean I'm sort of curious if like for you, like,
what does your creative practice like, I mean, I'm curious
about that you're talking about how it emerged at the
same time as you sort of made these decisions to
stop trying to fit into certain molds, like what role
(12:36):
did diet culture and your relationship to food play in that?
So just in general, starting to play music really helped
me just evolve into body acceptance in general, into all
like all the way into body love and positivity, which
(12:57):
is I feel like what Fatty Cakes is right now,
but just the start of music in general. My first band,
they put me in the front. I was the lead,
and I had never played my instrument before. I had
never been the lead before, and so taking up that
space really helped me to see myself fully and to
(13:19):
experience my body and other people viewing me without judgment,
you know, and even being excited, you know, like people
were so supportive. I just really grew into like loving
and performing fatness, like with fatty Cakes for sure. And
so I really I feel like fatty Cakes is the
(13:43):
culmination of riding my bike and playing in a band
and working at a bakery and finding love through my
relationships with my friends, like passing out pizza while we
see pizza girl friend and having a food fight with you,
Virgie while we did fat girl tears, and doing all
(14:06):
of the creative things around being a fat person has
I don't know, just really like evolved me. I feel
like I met my full charmander, you know, Bullard. Yes, yeah,
(14:41):
passing out pizza was like to me was already the
most exciting and fun and inventive way to talk about
eating food in public and being yourself at the buffet
and yeah, just truly living in the moment. Oh, I
love that. Can you talk little bit more about being
(15:02):
yourself at the buffet? Yeah? So that is one of
my favorite fatty Cakes lines, be yourself at the buffet,
Because you know, I don't know if you've well, I'm
sure you have experiences. First of all, people will watch
you eat if you are a fat person. If you
are at a buffet and you fill up your plate,
(15:23):
there look at you. You know, they're like, you know,
like there's so much judgment around you, and so being
yourself at the buffet is so important. I want you
to see me have fun and enjoy this life because
I should. I have every right, you know, and so
it feels good to carry that sentiment, you know, And
(15:43):
I think of that every time we go out, like
every time I go do something for myself. Every time
I want to eat, like, I will go in because
that's what I want to do. And I want to
live this life, enjoying this body, enjoying my taste buds,
and I want to experience my senses. Right. I want
people to hear that you can live that life, you know,
(16:05):
because it took so long for me to get there.
It took years. It took going through being in bands
with men and not really having a space to talk
about my femininity, my queerness, my fatness, my blackness. You know.
It took all of that to get to where I
am right now. And I just want those steps to
be so much, so much shorter for people, you know, like,
(16:28):
I want it to be so much quicker to get
to that point of seeing yourself as worthy and beautiful.
You know. Oh, yes, I think there's there really is
a power in because right like, for the most part,
the people we see on stage are the people who
the culture tells us we're supposed to be like. And
(16:50):
so you know, often they're thin people. Often they're white people.
Often they're straight people and just people and able bodied people,
and I think there is that extraordinary power or when
you see someone who sort of quote unquote maybe like
it doesn't quite fit in the picture, it's so powerful.
It's so intoxicating because it really is like that sense
(17:12):
of you know, who gets to have all eyes on them,
who gets to have that moment where people are inspired
by them? And I think it's very disruptive when that's
a fat person or a black person or a queer person,
And that's that's I feel like that's what you're talking about, Yes,
the representation. It is really about the representation, because to
see somebody break out of that mold is so powerful
(17:36):
that it is inspiring, Like and really just to watch
somebody who you who you assume shouldn't be in that space.
Create movement in that space, like literal movement, people are stoked,
running around, cheering, bouncing off each other, like loving each other,
picking each other up when they fall. Like watching folks
(17:57):
be in this community because of this person who's breaking
the mold is so it's fire. It's literal fire inside
of you. You know. It just made it so that
I needed to I needed to be there, and I
wanted to do that too. I wanted other people to
see this fat body, this black person talk about how
(18:18):
this political world is fucked up, how racism and Nazis
are fucked up. You know, like I want people to
see this fat black body talk about how working at
them all sucks, you know, like it just it's important,
you know, it's important. And it goes back to that
feeling of taking these big leaps instead of baby steps
(18:40):
that I felt like I took. For instance, we played
this show in Freso. It's like a kind of like
a bigger show. It's called Grizzly Fest here, and my niece,
who was probably six at the time, was so excited
that I got to be on this stage, and so
we actually invited her up on the stage with us
for that show. So she brought like a cute little
(19:01):
ukulele and she had this whole outfit plan, you know,
like she she got to be in the limelight and
like it just it touched me so much because again,
if I was her age and I got to see that,
like it would have changed my life. I just I
just love that I can be a part of that
for other people, you know, Uh yes, yes, so Vashina
(19:22):
one of Fatty Cakes and the puff Pastries, you know,
absolute most iconic songs, it's fat Girl Tears. Because can
(19:45):
you tell us a little bit about tell us a
little about the song, like what what story is fact
girl tears weaving? Um, what's the background? You know, tell
me a little bit about the process. So fat Girl Tears.
Um Amber wrote the lyrics for Girl Tears about you know,
being fat in the world and people fearing having a
(20:06):
fat body like yours, you know, living through that trauma
of not being accepted in this world yet still having
and loving this body, and instead of fighting to change
to make yourself small or diminish yourself like we talked
about before, you would cry it out and then go
on living in us who came up with the idea
(21:02):
to have a food fight for the music video. Okay,
so that was a collective effort because we all were
trying to figure out, like what should we do for
this video. We know, we want to have all of
these iconic fat activists or iconic artists, and we even
had like Keizaiah Horrell and Jasmine Leavey, Like we just
(21:22):
had all of these people who do work in activism,
and so we're like, cool, so what are we going
to do with all these fun people? And then I
think during a practice we were all like, oh my god,
we should have a food fight. It's gonna be so
much fun. And it truly was, like we went in
it was so so much fun. Oh. I just remember
(21:43):
Craig Caulderwood. She is an amazing artist in San Francisco.
I remember her throwing a full hamburger and it's sticking
to my belly. Like it was so just the just
the most amazing experience. Because what kid in the world
(22:05):
like doesn't want to have a food fight with their friends,
you know, like who doesn't have that dream at some point?
You know? Yeah, like that's like the food fight is
one of the most iconic cinematic kid movie moments, and
I feel like it never happens in real life. It's like,
I mean, I grew up sort of always hoping that
moment was about to happen, and it never did. Yees
(22:29):
to like live it now in my thirties was such
a treat. Yeah, that was the moment I will never forget.
And we actually also at the end we tried to
take photos of ourselves and we're just like sliding around
on all this food on the ground. The whole thing
was just so powerful for so many reasons. But like
(22:52):
you know, to have all like all these fat bodied
people dancing to begin with, right, like being in a
music video. Wow, And then you've got all of these
foods like specifically that are sort of quote unquote off
limits for fat people who are expected to always be
dieting and always be restricting food and certainly you're not
allowed to you know, enjoy it, let alone in public,
(23:15):
let alone throw it at people on film. And it
was the role breaking gorgeousness of that was just so incredible. Yes, yes,
I love that idea too, of off limit foods, like,
oh my gosh, so many of those things like Crimberula
was like that for me that was one of those things.
(23:35):
It was off limits because it's super quote unquote fatty foods.
It's it's expensive, it's like all of the things. Yes,
And it was just like I felt like it was
like a fat utopia, Like I feel like, I don't know.
I mean, I'm realizing that I think that I think
we have this idea that food and eating are kind
(23:56):
of this they're utilitarian, so they can't be part of
a creative practice. They can't. But I'm like realizing as
I'm talking to you that food and eating are one
hundred percent also part of a creative practice. What do
you think true? Yes? Yes, yes, First of all, I
(24:17):
love watching folks eat. I love being in this space
where I am feeding them the delicious food. Like it
really is this this full sensory like amalgam of creativity
and and nourishment. It is art. Food is art. Oh
that's incredible. I mean I'm curious right, like you're talking
(24:40):
about that journey from literally the back of the room
to now you're on stage eating pizza at shows and
screaming and singing and your front and center. You know,
I'm curious, like have you arrived? Like what is next?
For you. I want to keep going. I want to
travel the world like I would love to play this
zick in other countries I actually like for the I
(25:05):
don't know if you get to see those things, but
at the end of the year, Spotify does those things
of like you've touched this mini country, your music has
been played in these places, right, So each year I
love doing this like end of the year things so
I can see where we have been played. And some
countries are so like um, anti gay and very fat phobic.
(25:29):
Still you know, lightning and in a space again where
I felt like I lived as a kid, And to
think of fuck you and your neo Nazi friends or
fat girl tears being played in spaces like that is
what I've always wanted. So yeah, there is this feeling
of yes, I've arrived, I've arrived in this body, I've
(25:50):
arrived in this consciousness. I'm even seeing the effect on
other people. You know, actually cried with a fan at
a show. We just talked about trauma and abuse and
stuff and how when we were younger, we we went
through those things and how this music that I'm playing
now makes them feel empowered and that empowered me even more.
(26:11):
You know like at first this music was just to
help me heal us heals us friends, you know, like
we were just going through things in life and we
wanted to talk about it, right, yes, And so I
really feel like seeing that the music that we use
to heal is now healing other people does make me
feel like, oh my gosh, this is it. This is
(26:33):
what it's like, right, Like, this is what this is.
What anybody would want when they create, is to be
able to touch somebody. So yeah, I do have this
feeling of yes, I've arrived, But I also have this
feeling of like, let's keep going. I love it, Let's go.
And I would never have imagined at all. I would
(26:54):
never have imagined that this is what my life would
be like when I was that girl that bike, you know,
like I could never never have imagined that this is
where we would be. So I mean it's like, I
mean that sense of possibility. I don't know, it's just
so beautiful. Like for the person who maybe is creatively
(27:18):
inclined and is just like, can't I can't be broke,
I can't be that creative person in this body, what
would you tell them? Like, what word's the tool that
you would want to give them, Oh that looking at
life through others people's lenses is never ever gonna work.
You have to do what makes you feel good in
(27:39):
the moment, because sometimes that thing that made you feel
good in that moment is going to make someone else
feel good, is going to feel like healing to you
even is going to get you to where you never
knew you could go, because you're living in your truth,
in your body in that second, you know, I felt
like I spent a lot of time trying to figure
(28:00):
out what my future would look like with the lens
of other folks. Yes, and it was just such a setback.
It was such a creative stunter, you know, like you
just really can't you can't function in that, you know,
And so yeah, I would. I would absolutely say that.
I know everyone says this, but be true to yourself,
be true to your creative process, even if you feel
(28:21):
like no one's gonna understand, Like, it's not about them,
It's about you expressing who you are in that moment,
because to look back, like to look back on the
art that you make before you knew what you know now,
before you're the person you are now, is that healing.
So I would just say, well, hease, don't stop doing
(28:41):
what makes you feel good in this time, because it
will get you so much further, so much faster, to
live it in your own truth and in your own body. Hina,
thank you so much for being on the show. Isn't
such a pleasure getting to talk with you? Well, you too,
(29:03):
Thank you so much for having me. This is wonderful.
Thank you for this delicious crimblet I'm living. I'm gonna
go record today and think about you that I love that.
Thank you, Bushina. I'm in love with her. I know
(29:27):
you are too, Bashina, thank you for existing. Okay, So,
just to recap, Vashina taught us the importance of displaying
French pastries as you cruise blissfully around town, how much
fun food fights can be, the power of seeing bodies
like yours front and center, and how friendship and art
can save your life. What did you think? What's your
(29:50):
version of Vaschina's base? What are the practices that help
remind you that you deserve more than diet culture? Reach
out dm me on socials at Virgie Tovar, DMR producers
at Transmitter Pods, shoot us a message at Rebel Eaters
Club at gmail dot com. Rebel Eaters Club is brought
(30:11):
to you by Transmittermedia. This episode was written and produced
by Isabelle Carter. Sarah Knicks is Transmitters Executive editor. Wilson
Sarah is our managing producer, and Greta Khan is our
executive producer and I'm your host, Virgie tovar Rick Kwan
is our mix engineer. Thanks to Taka Yasuzawa, who wrote
some of the music we use this episode, and special
(30:31):
thanks to Fatty Cakes in the Puff Pastries for permission
to use their music in this episode. You can find
them and by their albums at fatty Cakes dot bandcamp
dot com. If you love Rebel Eaters Club, tell your
friends and share the love by writing a review on
your favorite podcast app. See you next week.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.