December 29, 2021 • 26 mins
For the first time, Gloria reveals her own traumatic childhood experience with a sexual predator in a powerful conversation with the first Latina Bachelorette, Clare Crawley. Clare shares her story of being molested by a Catholic priest. Dr. Vanessa Ramirez details the warning signs to identify abuse in children.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
By those Me and the Gloria Stephen. Here you are
listening to Red Table Talk via Stephens Podcast, all your
favorite episodes from our Facebook watch show in audio. Molested
by a priest. This was when you didn't hear about
sexual abuse in the church. He didn't nobody talked about it.
(00:20):
Bachelorette Claire Crawley speaks for the very first time. It
would be quiet. Yeah, the family doesn't need this kind
of upheaval, a cover up by the Catholic Church. These
predators bank on us being silent. A life haunted, I
had relationship after relationship with men who didn't value me.
(00:41):
How she finally found love the moment I met him,
when I was like I felt instantly connected with him
and the power of her voice, I finally was just
like no more. Plus a Red Table revealed for this
moment a long time I have alright three to one,
(01:08):
all right, all right, girls, Today is a kind of
tough subject. I thought it was an important one, heartbreaking
of abused children know and trust their abusers. And I
know this because I was one of them. Idea, you
(01:30):
quite it for this moment A long time I have.
I was nine years old when this happened, and it
was someone that my mother trusted. He was family, but
not close family. He was in a position of power
because my mother had put me in his music school,
and he immediately started telling her how talented I was
(01:53):
and how I needed special attention, and she felt lucky
that he was focusing this kind of attention on me.
Was there one particular moment, like I don't like this energy.
He put it in a way of, oh, you're so
good at this, and let me teach you or whatever,
and then it starts a little by little, and then
it goes fast. I knew that this was a very
(02:17):
dangerous situation. And when I revolted and I told him,
this cannot happen. You cannot do this. He goes your
father's in Vietnam, your mother's alone, and I will kill
her if you tell her. And I knew it was crazy,
because at no point did I ever think that it
was because of me that this was happening. I knew
the man was insane, and that's why I thought he
might actually hurt my mother. I tried every which way
(02:43):
to get out of going to that school. I invented
that I was sick. I invented that we didn't have
any inkling something was going on. No Mama, because first
of all, that was not talked about at all in
her lifetime, and then my dad was in Vietnam. I
remember sending and tape saying, Dad, you know, I really
(03:04):
don't you know, I'd rather sing songs and I don't
want to do classical music to you. Okay, you know,
(03:31):
he says, A shamed the ways that talent. And then
a circle of hair fell out from my head. I'm
stressed from anxiety, and finally one morning, at three in
the morning, I just ran to my mother's room because
I couldn't take it anymore, and I told her about it,
and then the police came and she said, this is
what's happening. And they told my mother not to press
(03:53):
charges because they said that I was going to go
through worst trauma having to get on a stand and testify.
And that's the one thing that I feel bad about,
knowing that there must have been other victims. But even
later on, this predator, who was a respected member of
(04:16):
the community, had the Okay two, when we had our
first big hit with Gonga, wrote a letter to the
paper criticizing my music. At that moment, I was so
angry that I was about to like blow the lid
off of everything. And then I thought, my whole success
(04:38):
is going to turn into him and his taking your
p How do you ignore that? Well, you have mama.
It's that manipulation and control. But that's what they do.
They take your power. Millions of you watched Claire Crawley's
(05:00):
romatic journey as the first Latina Bachelor at What you
didn't know is that for decades Claire has been privately
dealing with a childhood trauma that continues to affect her today.
Claire Welcome. Thank you for having me here. Claire Welcome. Recently,
you shared a very brave thing for an Instagram post
(05:22):
about being the child of sexual abuse. Yeah. I know
how it was for me trying to decide to even
do this show today. I didn't tell any of the producers,
and you didn't did not I was back there and
listening to what you said, and I didn't know that
I no one knows that except my family. I wanted
to do with the subject matter because it is so
(05:44):
important to try to prevent I also did not want
to sit here quietly while you share and are brave
So the day that you were going to put that
on your Instagram, on your social media, how was that
thought process for you? Was there something that said, this
is it, this is the moment, and I have to
do it. I'll tell you I was scared to death
(06:06):
to post about it, to talk about it. I knew
with sharing my journey, with getting my breast and plants out,
it was going to open up a can of worms.
And I remember sitting on the bed and telling my
fiance Dale, I want to share this. I'm ready to
share this, but I'm scared. And he told me that's
even the more reason for you to share it. And
(06:27):
he said, to make your mess your message. Robin Roberts
quote and my post says self love is the act
of giving a voice to your truth. So here is mine.
As a child of sexual abuse, my young adult years
were spent in unhealthy relationships, feeling unworthy of the good ones.
It was a vicious cycle because the more I chose
(06:49):
the wrong men who treated me poorly, the more I
believed I wasn't good enough enter the breast and plants.
I've learned the toxicity that these implants can cost. So
I'm stepping away from something that no longer serves me.
We're taking it back to Claire one point, Oh, who
is lovable and worthy just the way she is. Wow.
I was writing that post and I walked myself through
(07:10):
the steps of where did it start? And it really
took it back to my childhood of feeling shame. I
know you have been spoken about a lot of the details.
I don't want to push you on anything. I just
want to know what you would like to share, because
I know it was someone that was very trusted, which
happens a lot. How old were you when this happened.
(07:32):
I believe I was right around five or six years
old and I was in first grade, and one of
the biggest things in going to school for me was
that I was just painfully shy. I wouldn't speak up,
I would never raise my hand, to the point where
if I had to use the bathroom, I would pee
my pants instead of ask to go to the restroom.
You know, I grew up going to a Catholic school.
(07:54):
When I was a victim of a predator, it was
a priest. Yes, my parents looked at Katholic priests as
they held him on a pedestal. Of course, your mother's Mexican. Correct. Correct,
it is very deep culture. How could you not trust?
Are supposed to be curious, most trustworthy. Yeah, And the
(08:15):
Catholic school treated him as a counselor. My parents did
the best they could and reached out for the resources
they could at the time and sent me to this priest.
And I don't think there was any counseling that was done.
It was a one on one time to be a predator.
Did he threaten you? I don't remember a threat. I
(08:35):
remember quickly learning to love school and quickly shaping up
and raising my hand and speaking up for myself because
I knew enough to know that I didn't want to
sit alone in a confessional room with him anymore. And
I never told my family. I never told my parents
because this was somebody you respected, They can do no wrong.
(08:58):
This was when you didn't he or about sexual abuse
in the church. He didn't Nobody talked about it. So
I never talked about it for years and years and years.
And I think I was in fourth grade when I
randomly just shared it with one of my sisters and
I don't even remember what was said, but right then
she went to my mom and dad. This used to
(09:19):
be a taboo, at least for Latinos. And you know
that for your mom this supposed to have been crazy.
How was it? Because they also don't know how to deal.
When my family found out, it was like what do
we do? Yeah, it was panic and it was flipping
my my mom's world upside down. And how she treated
(09:40):
me growing up was a lot different my siblings, and
my sisters noticed that she did treat me differently, maybe intentional, unintentional,
I don't know. There was just always something in between
our relationship. She was a good mother to me, but
there was always just something in between. It was only
a couple of years ago I finally sat down and
(10:01):
asked her why was it so challenging? Why do we
have such a rift? And I don't know why I
asked her this, but I just remember looking at her
and saying, who hurt you? Mm hmm, And she told
me she had been abused and she had never shared
(10:25):
that and I didn't ask the details, but she just
started crying and apologizing and said I didn't know how
to handle it. And I think how she handled me
was a reflection of how she was taught mentally. It
would be quiet Yeah, the family doesn't need this kind
of upheaval. Your parents sued the church, yes, get a girl.
(10:48):
What happened when they said the church essentially said, we
will do whatever it takes to keep this go to court,
we will move them out of the church. But when
the church said that they moved him out of the church,
they had moved him to one church over another parish,
another parish, which is notoriously what was going priests, and
(11:09):
he did it to more children, and the church allowed him,
knowing that he was a predator, to perpetuate what he
was doing. Wow, where my mother shared with the family
what had happened with me and this guy, even though
we didn't take him to court. One of my older
aunts that had happened the same guy in Cuba when
(11:31):
she was a child, and she had never shared until
the moment where my mother told her. These predators bank
on us being silent. Predators bank on us not saying
anything and not opening our mouth, and that gives them
that power. And that's why, after thirty nine years, instead
(11:53):
of letting it affect me negatively, I thought, how do
I take the power back? Because for so long, the
weight that I was carrying with shame, embarrassment, feeling not
worthy of the church standing up for me. And now
I thought, you know what, this is not my burden
to carry anymore. What I'm going to carry is being
(12:15):
a survivor, being proud that this is not mine to
hold onto. And she wasn't. You didn't have anything to
do with, nothing to do with today. How is your
relationship with your mom? Has it changed a little? It's
changed because she has dementia and Alzheimer's now, so she
(12:35):
needs you now very much. Yeah, And for some reason,
it has been extremely healing for me. With her Alzheimer's
and dimensions, It's almost reverted her to a child, and
it's allowed me to step up and be the mother
to her that she never really was able to be
towards me, and love her unconditionally and be there for
(12:58):
her as much as I can. And while doing that,
I just did not want to perpetuate anger or bitterness
or that wall between us you. I wanted to heal that.
I'm sure it's affected your relationships men and with women.
I imagine it still affects my relationships. I had relationship
after relationship after relationship that I chose with men who
(13:21):
didn't value me because I never felt good enough. And
for so long I hated the word victim, right, and
I don't feel like I am. I never felt like it.
I didn't want to share it with anybody. What I
went through. I withheld it from relationships, even from friends,
because I didn't want to be looked at as the
(13:43):
victim of or she's doing this because of that, or
she's acting this way because of that. But it was
only till I shifted my mindset of like, I'm not
a victim, but I'm a survivor and to see that
you can have success and move on and have relationships.
Did you expect that you were going to find true
love when you did the show? I went in having
(14:05):
true love for myself, loving myself holy, and not only
walked away with my self love, but I walked away
with a man that loves me just as deeply, exactly,
And how soon after I got engaged after twelve days?
Twelve days, but that's like lesbian time life. Yeah, twelve days.
(14:29):
I've had people asked me a bunch of times because
the show, and you know, yes, I tell everybody. If
I would have waited and seen it through to the
very end, it still would have been him. Dale is
here with us now, welcome to the Red Table. I
know that you've been a big supporter of Claire's through
this entire situation. What were the first feelings that you
(14:53):
got when she shared her story with you? It must
have been tough for her to do, you know, even
when this first came off. I think the biggest thing
is just having a level of understandings, and it's so
important to feel comfortable that you can really open up
and share your story, your family story, everything that brought
you to this point. So it's been a real level
of growth for me as a man, and she's really
(15:16):
brought this out of me that I don't need to
fix every problem. I grew up in my household where
my dad was sent and out of the picture early on,
that four sisters that as a young boy and the
man of the house I was always hoping to protect.
But this isn't like when I was growing up. Sometimes
you just have to be there and be strong and
be right beside. Yeah, a lot of survivors of abuse
(15:38):
experience real difficulty with intimacy, because to me, the number
one thing of intimacy is trusty. Did you have to
foster this intimacy and trust or did you Was it
a naturally occurring thing with the two of you. I
think it was a naturally occurring thing with the two
of us. I felt instantly saved with him. I felt
instantly connected with him and healing from childhood abuse, sexual abuse.
(16:03):
It's not linear. It goes up and down, and it
affects different parts of your lives, and so it affects
not only our intimate relationship, but when we get into disagreements.
I noticed myself raising my voice a lot. And he's
asked me before, like why do you yell sometimes? And
I tell him I was silenced as a child for
so long. I feel like I need to be heard now.
(16:24):
I feel like I want to be heard now, and
I feel like when I'm not being heard, you will
hear me. Yeah, I will. Normal How have you been
able to help her through this trauma? Like? Are there
specific things? Is it just being there for her? Do
you talk about it a lot? Or is it really
not necessary at this point? I think more than anything,
(16:44):
I've always wanted her to feel safe and secure and protective,
and we've talked about this a lot. I never wanted
her to feel pressured. I never ever wanted her to
feel as if I'm too aggressive or anything of that nature.
I always would tell him, I'm like, no, it's different
when it's coming from sex. It's a lot different exactly
because you know, when somebody has good intentions with you,
(17:06):
say space, safe relationship. So like you both mentioned, which
I think is beautiful and super important, the deeper that
you go, the more that you share, it's difficult, it's
a bumpier ride, but then it outstretches the potential for closeness,
for the most amazing kind of connection that's not possible
without going through that other stuff. I've always said I
(17:27):
wanted a man like my father who was very strong,
but very compassionate and had that tenderness, and it's always
been a really hard thing to find because it's almost
like polar opposite exactly. Dale, thank you for coming to
the table and sharing. Thank you so much so Now
joining us at the table is Dr Vanessa Ramidez, who
(17:49):
specializes in childhood sexual abuse and trauma. Thank you so
much for being here having and also Desiree Garcio joins
us now from Utah. Welcome ladies. At eight years old,
Desiree was molested by her stepfather. Can you tell us
a bit about it? So baby started when I was eight,
From what I can remember, that's the first memory I
(18:11):
have um. And then it turned to full um daily
almost every time until I was fifteen years old. Was
there a situation that it was difficult for you to
tell your mother what was happening. You know, he would
tell me he would bury my brother's alive. He told
me he would kill my mom and dad, and I
believed he would kill either them or me if I
(18:33):
told anyone. Of course I didn't. I was terrified at him.
He was a big guy. He would broke my ribs
because he hit me so hard, I would pass out
and come back and be be finished. I just had
to survive. And what finally spurred you to speak? I
just remember literally being awake at the middle and I
and just praying and just saying, I can't live this
(18:54):
way anymore. And he had tried coming into my room
at night and picking the log. I just laid the
until the sun came up, and I ran the school
as fast as I could, and I went and told
the teacher, who reported it to the school counselor and
the school counselor told her I was lying and I
was a drama queen and that I was attention seeking
and to not believe me. Um. Luckily, my teacher defended
(19:15):
me and said that's not our job to investigate that.
And the detective came and first thing she said is
you know your counselor doesn't think this is true. I
need you to tell me right now if this is
true or not, because this is a big, big accusation.
And I just broke down crying, and I said, I
promised this has happened, This happens as as long as
I can remember, and if you don't save me today,
(19:38):
he's gonna kill me in my family. And I remember
she grabbed my hand and just started crying herself and said,
I promise you you won't go back home to him.
She was your ally. You know it's so difficult for
a child to come up with this kind of story.
It is that is a hard thing to do. Doctor,
Could you speak to this When you disclose, how people
(20:00):
react to that. Disclosure is so important because kids internalized
things a lot, so they blame themselves, or what are
other people going to think about me? Are they going
to believe me because it's somebody in power, like a priest,
for example. Because often time people wonder, why don't kids
tell right away? Desrec do you think you would have
told if someone had asked you. I don't know if
(20:22):
I would have come out and lainely told. But the
teacher I actually reported it too, saying that she knew
she do Something was going on the whole time. Nobody
wanted to ask children those questions. It was talk to
the families that are out there watching this show right now,
give us some of the signs for parents to look
for if they already see something strange or feel something,
(20:46):
because parents can also sometimes feel that something may not
be right. We have to look for, is there a
major change in the child. Were they a child that
was very social, very outgoing, and then they become very withdrawn,
very shy, or the opposite where they very shy and
with john and now they're friendly with everybody. If there's
an obvious change in behavior is one thing to always
(21:06):
look out for. Oftentimes with little kids, since they don't
know how to vocalize what's happening or like express it
in any way, they might play it out with their
dolls or just with their actions. So if you're noticing
a lot of like sexual play or sexual talk that
is beyond what is normal for like a five year
old to know, that could be another warning sign as well.
(21:27):
If a child is acting out, stop asking what's wrong
with them? But what happened to them? And we need
to be more aware as a society to look at
it from that perspective. Okay, let's suppose you don't see
anything and you just a mother when I have this
conversation with your son or your daughter, Yes, what is
(21:48):
the right age like to start this conversation the conversations
you just start early, but you don't have to go
in and get so detailed about what is sexual abuse?
Just education about it? Are the names of your body parts?
What's private? You did that to me, mom, And I
made it a point that my kids. Yeah, I didn't
give them too much information, but I was very clear
to them you weren't graphic. You know, you were like
(22:11):
there are things that are appropriate and there are things
that are inappropriate. When I was growing up, one of
the first things that she would tell me, doesn't matter
who it is, the way that somebody puts their hand
on your shoulder. You are going to be able to
tell what that intention is. It's true and that's been
in my head my whole life. You're educating them right,
but you're also opening up that we can talk about
(22:33):
these things. Do you have children desert? I have a
snake sure old daughter, an eight year old son, and
how have you opened their eyes? We have a very
open communication. They know. Hey, if anybody ever makes you
feel uncomfortable, you come to mom right away. There. We
don't have secrets, no matter what. Even if someone tells
you to keep a secret, you never hold a secret.
And desireek what is the one message you want people
(22:55):
to hear? At first, I had obviously a lot of anger,
you know, it was just so many different things. I
hate everybody and I hate the world. Until finally I said,
you took my past, you took my childhood, but you
will not take my future. You know, I've been a
counselor in crisis worker for twelve years. This is what
I do for a living now, and I have my
foundation candle in a dark room, and I go and
(23:15):
help survivors, based their perpetrators and four and take their
power back. I found my purpose in my trauma. You
made your mess your messes. We've talked about women being abused,
and I don't want to guys have not abused. They
are too, So yeah, little boys men. So is it
the same conversation that you're supposed to have with your daughter,
(23:37):
the same one you have son, Yes, the same thing.
One in six boys is sexually and one in four girls.
And that's what we know, because these are just statistics
based on the people that actually talked about we talk
about it. Yeah, exactly. And by the way it has
gone down, why you think, I think it's because women
(23:59):
are being more both we're sharing, we talk about people
are going to jail because before nobody went to jail
for so long it's oh, it's shameful and you're a liar,
and you know, it had to be hundreds of hundreds
of women coming forward just to be believed. The world
has changed by humans we have, we haven't. Predators will
be there, So we need to cut down the percentage
(24:20):
of this happening at all. I am so grateful to
you guys for everybody for being here. Because we can't
change what happened in the past. What we can do
now is help people and help our future, whether it
be believing people, whether it be loving them extra, whether
it be understanding and having compassion and realizing that the
healing is is never truly finished, even if you just
(24:42):
tell your best friend, even if you get out of
a situation that takes strength. So I applaud everybody and
and thank you for giving us the platform to talk
about this, because it gives everybody out there space to
heal as well. And thank you, Mom, thank you, and
listen to everyone it's watching out there. I knew one
day I would share this story. I was waiting for
(25:04):
the right opportunity and space to do so. And this
is one of the reasons that I said yes to
the table at all, because we wanted to create this
space where we talk about important things that hopefully we'll
make a difference to everybody that's watching out there. Thank
you to all the brave guests at this table for
(25:26):
sharing your impactful stories. If you or somebody you know
is being sexually abused or needs help, please reach out.
There are far more resources available day by day. Let's
just keep talking about it. You're good, okay, I'm good
(25:47):
too now and a lot of years coming, we're going
to the bar after this guys. Yeah, you minute man girl,
There's always a moment. Yes, thanks for listening. To join
(26:08):
the Red Table Talk family and become a part of
the conversation, follow us at Facebook dot com, forward slash,
red table Talk, Stefans. Red Table Talk via Stefans is
a production of Westbrook Studios in partnership with I Heart
Radio's Michael Dura podcast Network. For more podcasts from my heart,
visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
(26:31):
you listen to your favorite shows.
By those Me and the Gloria Stephen. Here you are
listening to Red Table Talk via Stephens Podcast, all your
favorite episodes from our Facebook watch show in audio. Molested
by a priest. This was when you didn't hear about
sexual abuse in the church. He didn't nobody talked about it.
(00:20):
Bachelorette Claire Crawley speaks for the very first time. It
would be quiet. Yeah, the family doesn't need this kind
of upheaval, a cover up by the Catholic Church. These
predators bank on us being silent. A life haunted, I
had relationship after relationship with men who didn't value me.
(00:41):
How she finally found love the moment I met him,
when I was like I felt instantly connected with him
and the power of her voice, I finally was just
like no more. Plus a Red Table revealed for this
moment a long time I have alright three to one,
(01:08):
all right, all right, girls, Today is a kind of
tough subject. I thought it was an important one, heartbreaking
of abused children know and trust their abusers. And I
know this because I was one of them. Idea, you
(01:30):
quite it for this moment A long time I have.
I was nine years old when this happened, and it
was someone that my mother trusted. He was family, but
not close family. He was in a position of power
because my mother had put me in his music school,
and he immediately started telling her how talented I was
(01:53):
and how I needed special attention, and she felt lucky
that he was focusing this kind of attention on me.
Was there one particular moment, like I don't like this energy.
He put it in a way of, oh, you're so
good at this, and let me teach you or whatever,
and then it starts a little by little, and then
it goes fast. I knew that this was a very
(02:17):
dangerous situation. And when I revolted and I told him,
this cannot happen. You cannot do this. He goes your
father's in Vietnam, your mother's alone, and I will kill
her if you tell her. And I knew it was crazy,
because at no point did I ever think that it
was because of me that this was happening. I knew
the man was insane, and that's why I thought he
might actually hurt my mother. I tried every which way
(02:43):
to get out of going to that school. I invented
that I was sick. I invented that we didn't have
any inkling something was going on. No Mama, because first
of all, that was not talked about at all in
her lifetime, and then my dad was in Vietnam. I
remember sending and tape saying, Dad, you know, I really
(03:04):
don't you know, I'd rather sing songs and I don't
want to do classical music to you. Okay, you know,
(03:31):
he says, A shamed the ways that talent. And then
a circle of hair fell out from my head. I'm
stressed from anxiety, and finally one morning, at three in
the morning, I just ran to my mother's room because
I couldn't take it anymore, and I told her about it,
and then the police came and she said, this is
what's happening. And they told my mother not to press
(03:53):
charges because they said that I was going to go
through worst trauma having to get on a stand and testify.
And that's the one thing that I feel bad about,
knowing that there must have been other victims. But even
later on, this predator, who was a respected member of
(04:16):
the community, had the Okay two, when we had our
first big hit with Gonga, wrote a letter to the
paper criticizing my music. At that moment, I was so
angry that I was about to like blow the lid
off of everything. And then I thought, my whole success
(04:38):
is going to turn into him and his taking your
p How do you ignore that? Well, you have mama.
It's that manipulation and control. But that's what they do.
They take your power. Millions of you watched Claire Crawley's
(05:00):
romatic journey as the first Latina Bachelor at What you
didn't know is that for decades Claire has been privately
dealing with a childhood trauma that continues to affect her today.
Claire Welcome. Thank you for having me here. Claire Welcome. Recently,
you shared a very brave thing for an Instagram post
(05:22):
about being the child of sexual abuse. Yeah. I know
how it was for me trying to decide to even
do this show today. I didn't tell any of the producers,
and you didn't did not I was back there and
listening to what you said, and I didn't know that
I no one knows that except my family. I wanted
to do with the subject matter because it is so
(05:44):
important to try to prevent I also did not want
to sit here quietly while you share and are brave
So the day that you were going to put that
on your Instagram, on your social media, how was that
thought process for you? Was there something that said, this
is it, this is the moment, and I have to
do it. I'll tell you I was scared to death
(06:06):
to post about it, to talk about it. I knew
with sharing my journey, with getting my breast and plants out,
it was going to open up a can of worms.
And I remember sitting on the bed and telling my
fiance Dale, I want to share this. I'm ready to
share this, but I'm scared. And he told me that's
even the more reason for you to share it. And
(06:27):
he said, to make your mess your message. Robin Roberts
quote and my post says self love is the act
of giving a voice to your truth. So here is mine.
As a child of sexual abuse, my young adult years
were spent in unhealthy relationships, feeling unworthy of the good ones.
It was a vicious cycle because the more I chose
(06:49):
the wrong men who treated me poorly, the more I
believed I wasn't good enough enter the breast and plants.
I've learned the toxicity that these implants can cost. So
I'm stepping away from something that no longer serves me.
We're taking it back to Claire one point, Oh, who
is lovable and worthy just the way she is. Wow.
I was writing that post and I walked myself through
(07:10):
the steps of where did it start? And it really
took it back to my childhood of feeling shame. I
know you have been spoken about a lot of the details.
I don't want to push you on anything. I just
want to know what you would like to share, because
I know it was someone that was very trusted, which
happens a lot. How old were you when this happened.
(07:32):
I believe I was right around five or six years
old and I was in first grade, and one of
the biggest things in going to school for me was
that I was just painfully shy. I wouldn't speak up,
I would never raise my hand, to the point where
if I had to use the bathroom, I would pee
my pants instead of ask to go to the restroom.
You know, I grew up going to a Catholic school.
(07:54):
When I was a victim of a predator, it was
a priest. Yes, my parents looked at Katholic priests as
they held him on a pedestal. Of course, your mother's Mexican. Correct. Correct,
it is very deep culture. How could you not trust?
Are supposed to be curious, most trustworthy. Yeah, And the
(08:15):
Catholic school treated him as a counselor. My parents did
the best they could and reached out for the resources
they could at the time and sent me to this priest.
And I don't think there was any counseling that was done.
It was a one on one time to be a predator.
Did he threaten you? I don't remember a threat. I
(08:35):
remember quickly learning to love school and quickly shaping up
and raising my hand and speaking up for myself because
I knew enough to know that I didn't want to
sit alone in a confessional room with him anymore. And
I never told my family. I never told my parents
because this was somebody you respected, They can do no wrong.
(08:58):
This was when you didn't he or about sexual abuse
in the church. He didn't Nobody talked about it. So
I never talked about it for years and years and years.
And I think I was in fourth grade when I
randomly just shared it with one of my sisters and
I don't even remember what was said, but right then
she went to my mom and dad. This used to
(09:19):
be a taboo, at least for Latinos. And you know
that for your mom this supposed to have been crazy.
How was it? Because they also don't know how to deal.
When my family found out, it was like what do
we do? Yeah, it was panic and it was flipping
my my mom's world upside down. And how she treated
(09:40):
me growing up was a lot different my siblings, and
my sisters noticed that she did treat me differently, maybe intentional, unintentional,
I don't know. There was just always something in between
our relationship. She was a good mother to me, but
there was always just something in between. It was only
a couple of years ago I finally sat down and
(10:01):
asked her why was it so challenging? Why do we
have such a rift? And I don't know why I
asked her this, but I just remember looking at her
and saying, who hurt you? Mm hmm, And she told
me she had been abused and she had never shared
(10:25):
that and I didn't ask the details, but she just
started crying and apologizing and said I didn't know how
to handle it. And I think how she handled me
was a reflection of how she was taught mentally. It
would be quiet Yeah, the family doesn't need this kind
of upheaval. Your parents sued the church, yes, get a girl.
(10:48):
What happened when they said the church essentially said, we
will do whatever it takes to keep this go to court,
we will move them out of the church. But when
the church said that they moved him out of the church,
they had moved him to one church over another parish,
another parish, which is notoriously what was going priests, and
(11:09):
he did it to more children, and the church allowed him,
knowing that he was a predator, to perpetuate what he
was doing. Wow, where my mother shared with the family
what had happened with me and this guy, even though
we didn't take him to court. One of my older
aunts that had happened the same guy in Cuba when
(11:31):
she was a child, and she had never shared until
the moment where my mother told her. These predators bank
on us being silent. Predators bank on us not saying
anything and not opening our mouth, and that gives them
that power. And that's why, after thirty nine years, instead
(11:53):
of letting it affect me negatively, I thought, how do
I take the power back? Because for so long, the
weight that I was carrying with shame, embarrassment, feeling not
worthy of the church standing up for me. And now
I thought, you know what, this is not my burden
to carry anymore. What I'm going to carry is being
(12:15):
a survivor, being proud that this is not mine to
hold onto. And she wasn't. You didn't have anything to
do with, nothing to do with today. How is your
relationship with your mom? Has it changed a little? It's
changed because she has dementia and Alzheimer's now, so she
(12:35):
needs you now very much. Yeah, And for some reason,
it has been extremely healing for me. With her Alzheimer's
and dimensions, It's almost reverted her to a child, and
it's allowed me to step up and be the mother
to her that she never really was able to be
towards me, and love her unconditionally and be there for
(12:58):
her as much as I can. And while doing that,
I just did not want to perpetuate anger or bitterness
or that wall between us you. I wanted to heal that.
I'm sure it's affected your relationships men and with women.
I imagine it still affects my relationships. I had relationship
after relationship after relationship that I chose with men who
(13:21):
didn't value me because I never felt good enough. And
for so long I hated the word victim, right, and
I don't feel like I am. I never felt like it.
I didn't want to share it with anybody. What I
went through. I withheld it from relationships, even from friends,
because I didn't want to be looked at as the
(13:43):
victim of or she's doing this because of that, or
she's acting this way because of that. But it was
only till I shifted my mindset of like, I'm not
a victim, but I'm a survivor and to see that
you can have success and move on and have relationships.
Did you expect that you were going to find true
love when you did the show? I went in having
(14:05):
true love for myself, loving myself holy, and not only
walked away with my self love, but I walked away
with a man that loves me just as deeply, exactly,
And how soon after I got engaged after twelve days?
Twelve days, but that's like lesbian time life. Yeah, twelve days.
(14:29):
I've had people asked me a bunch of times because
the show, and you know, yes, I tell everybody. If
I would have waited and seen it through to the
very end, it still would have been him. Dale is
here with us now, welcome to the Red Table. I
know that you've been a big supporter of Claire's through
this entire situation. What were the first feelings that you
(14:53):
got when she shared her story with you? It must
have been tough for her to do, you know, even
when this first came off. I think the biggest thing
is just having a level of understandings, and it's so
important to feel comfortable that you can really open up
and share your story, your family story, everything that brought
you to this point. So it's been a real level
of growth for me as a man, and she's really
(15:16):
brought this out of me that I don't need to
fix every problem. I grew up in my household where
my dad was sent and out of the picture early on,
that four sisters that as a young boy and the
man of the house I was always hoping to protect.
But this isn't like when I was growing up. Sometimes
you just have to be there and be strong and
be right beside. Yeah, a lot of survivors of abuse
(15:38):
experience real difficulty with intimacy, because to me, the number
one thing of intimacy is trusty. Did you have to
foster this intimacy and trust or did you Was it
a naturally occurring thing with the two of you. I
think it was a naturally occurring thing with the two
of us. I felt instantly saved with him. I felt
instantly connected with him and healing from childhood abuse, sexual abuse.
(16:03):
It's not linear. It goes up and down, and it
affects different parts of your lives, and so it affects
not only our intimate relationship, but when we get into disagreements.
I noticed myself raising my voice a lot. And he's
asked me before, like why do you yell sometimes? And
I tell him I was silenced as a child for
so long. I feel like I need to be heard now.
(16:24):
I feel like I want to be heard now, and
I feel like when I'm not being heard, you will
hear me. Yeah, I will. Normal How have you been
able to help her through this trauma? Like? Are there
specific things? Is it just being there for her? Do
you talk about it a lot? Or is it really
not necessary at this point? I think more than anything,
(16:44):
I've always wanted her to feel safe and secure and protective,
and we've talked about this a lot. I never wanted
her to feel pressured. I never ever wanted her to
feel as if I'm too aggressive or anything of that nature.
I always would tell him, I'm like, no, it's different
when it's coming from sex. It's a lot different exactly
because you know, when somebody has good intentions with you,
(17:06):
say space, safe relationship. So like you both mentioned, which
I think is beautiful and super important, the deeper that
you go, the more that you share, it's difficult, it's
a bumpier ride, but then it outstretches the potential for closeness,
for the most amazing kind of connection that's not possible
without going through that other stuff. I've always said I
(17:27):
wanted a man like my father who was very strong,
but very compassionate and had that tenderness, and it's always
been a really hard thing to find because it's almost
like polar opposite exactly. Dale, thank you for coming to
the table and sharing. Thank you so much so Now
joining us at the table is Dr Vanessa Ramidez, who
(17:49):
specializes in childhood sexual abuse and trauma. Thank you so
much for being here having and also Desiree Garcio joins
us now from Utah. Welcome ladies. At eight years old,
Desiree was molested by her stepfather. Can you tell us
a bit about it? So baby started when I was eight,
From what I can remember, that's the first memory I
(18:11):
have um. And then it turned to full um daily
almost every time until I was fifteen years old. Was
there a situation that it was difficult for you to
tell your mother what was happening. You know, he would
tell me he would bury my brother's alive. He told
me he would kill my mom and dad, and I
believed he would kill either them or me if I
(18:33):
told anyone. Of course I didn't. I was terrified at him.
He was a big guy. He would broke my ribs
because he hit me so hard, I would pass out
and come back and be be finished. I just had
to survive. And what finally spurred you to speak? I
just remember literally being awake at the middle and I
and just praying and just saying, I can't live this
(18:54):
way anymore. And he had tried coming into my room
at night and picking the log. I just laid the
until the sun came up, and I ran the school
as fast as I could, and I went and told
the teacher, who reported it to the school counselor and
the school counselor told her I was lying and I
was a drama queen and that I was attention seeking
and to not believe me. Um. Luckily, my teacher defended
(19:15):
me and said that's not our job to investigate that.
And the detective came and first thing she said is
you know your counselor doesn't think this is true. I
need you to tell me right now if this is
true or not, because this is a big, big accusation.
And I just broke down crying, and I said, I
promised this has happened, This happens as as long as
I can remember, and if you don't save me today,
(19:38):
he's gonna kill me in my family. And I remember
she grabbed my hand and just started crying herself and said,
I promise you you won't go back home to him.
She was your ally. You know it's so difficult for
a child to come up with this kind of story.
It is that is a hard thing to do. Doctor,
Could you speak to this When you disclose, how people
(20:00):
react to that. Disclosure is so important because kids internalized
things a lot, so they blame themselves, or what are
other people going to think about me? Are they going
to believe me because it's somebody in power, like a priest,
for example. Because often time people wonder, why don't kids
tell right away? Desrec do you think you would have
told if someone had asked you. I don't know if
(20:22):
I would have come out and lainely told. But the
teacher I actually reported it too, saying that she knew
she do Something was going on the whole time. Nobody
wanted to ask children those questions. It was talk to
the families that are out there watching this show right now,
give us some of the signs for parents to look
for if they already see something strange or feel something,
(20:46):
because parents can also sometimes feel that something may not
be right. We have to look for, is there a
major change in the child. Were they a child that
was very social, very outgoing, and then they become very withdrawn,
very shy, or the opposite where they very shy and
with john and now they're friendly with everybody. If there's
an obvious change in behavior is one thing to always
(21:06):
look out for. Oftentimes with little kids, since they don't
know how to vocalize what's happening or like express it
in any way, they might play it out with their
dolls or just with their actions. So if you're noticing
a lot of like sexual play or sexual talk that
is beyond what is normal for like a five year
old to know, that could be another warning sign as well.
(21:27):
If a child is acting out, stop asking what's wrong
with them? But what happened to them? And we need
to be more aware as a society to look at
it from that perspective. Okay, let's suppose you don't see
anything and you just a mother when I have this
conversation with your son or your daughter, Yes, what is
(21:48):
the right age like to start this conversation the conversations
you just start early, but you don't have to go
in and get so detailed about what is sexual abuse?
Just education about it? Are the names of your body parts?
What's private? You did that to me, mom, And I
made it a point that my kids. Yeah, I didn't
give them too much information, but I was very clear
to them you weren't graphic. You know, you were like
(22:11):
there are things that are appropriate and there are things
that are inappropriate. When I was growing up, one of
the first things that she would tell me, doesn't matter
who it is, the way that somebody puts their hand
on your shoulder. You are going to be able to
tell what that intention is. It's true and that's been
in my head my whole life. You're educating them right,
but you're also opening up that we can talk about
(22:33):
these things. Do you have children desert? I have a
snake sure old daughter, an eight year old son, and
how have you opened their eyes? We have a very
open communication. They know. Hey, if anybody ever makes you
feel uncomfortable, you come to mom right away. There. We
don't have secrets, no matter what. Even if someone tells
you to keep a secret, you never hold a secret.
And desireek what is the one message you want people
(22:55):
to hear? At first, I had obviously a lot of anger,
you know, it was just so many different things. I
hate everybody and I hate the world. Until finally I said,
you took my past, you took my childhood, but you
will not take my future. You know, I've been a
counselor in crisis worker for twelve years. This is what
I do for a living now, and I have my
foundation candle in a dark room, and I go and
(23:15):
help survivors, based their perpetrators and four and take their
power back. I found my purpose in my trauma. You
made your mess your messes. We've talked about women being abused,
and I don't want to guys have not abused. They
are too, So yeah, little boys men. So is it
the same conversation that you're supposed to have with your daughter,
(23:37):
the same one you have son, Yes, the same thing.
One in six boys is sexually and one in four girls.
And that's what we know, because these are just statistics
based on the people that actually talked about we talk
about it. Yeah, exactly. And by the way it has
gone down, why you think, I think it's because women
(23:59):
are being more both we're sharing, we talk about people
are going to jail because before nobody went to jail
for so long it's oh, it's shameful and you're a liar,
and you know, it had to be hundreds of hundreds
of women coming forward just to be believed. The world
has changed by humans we have, we haven't. Predators will
be there, So we need to cut down the percentage
(24:20):
of this happening at all. I am so grateful to
you guys for everybody for being here. Because we can't
change what happened in the past. What we can do
now is help people and help our future, whether it
be believing people, whether it be loving them extra, whether
it be understanding and having compassion and realizing that the
healing is is never truly finished, even if you just
(24:42):
tell your best friend, even if you get out of
a situation that takes strength. So I applaud everybody and
and thank you for giving us the platform to talk
about this, because it gives everybody out there space to
heal as well. And thank you, Mom, thank you, and
listen to everyone it's watching out there. I knew one
day I would share this story. I was waiting for
(25:04):
the right opportunity and space to do so. And this
is one of the reasons that I said yes to
the table at all, because we wanted to create this
space where we talk about important things that hopefully we'll
make a difference to everybody that's watching out there. Thank
you to all the brave guests at this table for
(25:26):
sharing your impactful stories. If you or somebody you know
is being sexually abused or needs help, please reach out.
There are far more resources available day by day. Let's
just keep talking about it. You're good, okay, I'm good
(25:47):
too now and a lot of years coming, we're going
to the bar after this guys. Yeah, you minute man girl,
There's always a moment. Yes, thanks for listening. To join
(26:08):
the Red Table Talk family and become a part of
the conversation, follow us at Facebook dot com, forward slash,
red table Talk, Stefans. Red Table Talk via Stefans is
a production of Westbrook Studios in partnership with I Heart
Radio's Michael Dura podcast Network. For more podcasts from my heart,
visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
(26:31):
you listen to your favorite shows.
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