December 15, 2021 • 24 mins
In this shocking RTTE, Modern Family star Ariel Winter reveals her traumatic ordeal at the hands of online trolls starting when she was just 12 years old, and former Fifth Harmony singer Lauren Jauregui shares how being publicly outed online robbed her of the chance to come out on her own terms. Plus a mother’s courageous warning after the tragic bullycide of her teen daughter.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Bienveni, thos Me and Gloria Stephen. Here you are listening
to Red Table Talk via Stephens Podcast, all your favorite
episodes from our Facebook watch show in audio. I got
called the fat Slot when I was thirteen, shamed by
online bullies. They found the picture where my girlfriend and
I were dissing, victimized. How did you go from alex
(00:22):
Sanfi to Bianca horror? A mother's worst nightmare, her daughter bullied.
If you already missed the most likely god to death,
sorry your sound star. Online bullying and harassment of women
(00:47):
is at an all time high, and it's just getting worse.
Four in ten Americans have experienced it, and of women
say it's a major problem. On a daily basis, women
and especially those in the line I deal with the
worst kinds of profanity, as well as rape and death threats,
from anxiety, depression to suicide. The consequences are severe and undeniable.
(01:13):
When I was growing up, I didn't have this. My
version of bullying was a slam book and that was
where someone would be targeted. Well, those still existed in
my high school, or a rumor in school somebody's saying
something about you, but you would locate the person, look
at the person or interface, or you know. It was
(01:33):
another experience, had nothing to do with someone that was
hiding behind an account. Now it has been elevated to
the nth degree because of the accessibility any platform is worldwide.
All of us have suffered a bit of the bullying
and online harassment. Here's an example of what of mine.
I had COVID In November. I posted a video message saying, look,
(01:58):
I want you to know it. Okay what my best
friends is a world renowned infectious disease doctor and she
gave me these things to take, so I'm going to
share them with you. I usually don't read comments, but
I go, oh, let me see this was one of them.
Bull crap? How did you get so famous? Glorious Stefan?
Are you a communist, Illuminati, Freemasons, Jesuit or they're covering
(02:20):
the base? The numbers are a lie. Coronaviruses have been
on this earth forever. We cannot keep wearing masks, living
in our homes. Are doing what the government tells us
to do. You, of all people should know this. Stop
pushing us to be a slave to the government. All
I did was say I had COVID. I feel good
and this is what I talk Illuminati. Well that part
you got right, okay? Yes, and Illuminati, what the hell
(02:42):
can I tell you? Flag? I mean, you have a
daily show. Yes, it's a gossip show. It's an entertainment show.
You will also take a lot of abuse. There were
some days that you get beautiful things. But the other days,
if I said something in this show about someone that has,
you know, mean us of fans. I know that many
times they would even attack Lording and Lena. Of course
(03:04):
they've told Lena you're ugly and that's why your father
abandoned you. Something that has nothing to do. What's the
reality of what's going on? They go to the lowest place. Yes,
and you you were bullied. The very first post you
put online was in two thousand and fifteen. Yeah, when
you decided to share a photo of yourself, which I
(03:25):
find you incredibly cute and adorable in the photo. I
had just cut my hair. To me posting that picture,
I was excited you were happy with the pictures with it.
I'm like, oh, I feel more like myself. More people
than not were like, oh my god, lesbian just come
out of the closet. Already such a shame. Your mom
is so beautiful and you have to look like that
like another career, and I was like, what the hell, Like,
(03:48):
who takes the time to do that? There's always ill
intent on the other side of that comment, And this
was probably one of the only comments the post about
you and almost made me sick. I was dating Gem
for a year and I posted a sure and somebody
put I hope that you both get sexually assaulted with
a rusty metal stick that has aids on it and
(04:10):
you die slow and painful death. I was like, WHOA.
I just deleted it and I took a deep breath.
But that one I thought about for a while, because
people will really hate without knowing anything about you, merely
for a choice about you that doesn't affect them at all,
exactly what I mean. Cyber bullying can be particularly traumatic
for the LGBT community. Pop star Lauren how Diggie, who
(04:34):
rose to fame with the girl band Fifth Harmony, was
publicly outed and the opportunity to come out was stolen
from her. Welcome Lauren, Maybe all right, let's cut to
the chase. So I have been very lucky that Perez Hilton,
who was a card carrying fan of my fan club,
(04:55):
has kind of been hands off of me. He usually
is not hands off of anyone. For those of you
who don't know Pres Hilton, he became a famous blogger
by by cyber bullying in two thousand and sixteen. He
was the harbinger of doom for you. I've been dating
the girlfriend that I had at the time for like
probably a year at that point, but we had fallen
in love. When I was like fifteen, I was at
(05:17):
my uncle's wedding in New Orleans and my aunt like
very innocently posted the photos from the photo booth onto
her Facebook page. It was like a link for the
family to be able to click on, and my fans
are just a little wild, and they found the picture
where my girlfriend and I we were drunk, so we
had taken a picture kissing. So he definitely outed me.
I wasn't ready because I'm also Latina, you know, So
(05:38):
there was that whole looming thing of like, what is
my community going to feel about me? Are they even
gonna accept me? I know that my family obviously accepted me,
but was that something that they were willing to deal
with on a public scale? Because I have family members
who hit me up once it came out, who hit
my parents up? Like family? Some of them did, some
of them didn't. Like my immediate family knew, but like
(06:00):
outsourced family didn't know. But it was like yeah, because,
like you said, if you're not ready and this is
a big portion people they take, you feel like something
has been taken. I felt like my own process was violated.
I mean, I've had a lot of cyber bullyings. What
was the first one? The very first one was before
fame even hit me. It was in sixth grade where
(06:22):
some friends of mine created like a whole page on
a I M pages, like something like people that I
considered friends. I liked this boy. This boy liked me
back his sixth grade druma. But one of my friends
really liked him at the time, and so she was
really hurt that I had said yes to being his
girlfriend at field day, and so she and like a
(06:43):
whole group of my friends created a page that was
like Lauren is a slat an online slam book, online
slam book, and they posted it and then like everyone
that was in my school saw it, and I remember
coming home and seeing it and just feeling sick. To
my stomach because I was like, these are girls that
I consider my friends, and they're like publicly humiliating me
(07:03):
and calling me a slut when I have never even
kissed a boy. Now these girls are like mad at
me and not eating lunch with me, and I feel
like a slut. And I didn't even change yourself exactly,
and I didn't even know what that meant, you know
what I'm saying. And also, what is a slut? That's
a word made up to police women and their sexuality
(07:26):
and their expression of their sexuality. What happened in Brazil?
I think I was like eighteen or nineteen, and I
was minding my business on the rooftop in a bathing suit,
going in the pool. Later on that day, I go
online and there's just a slew of me tagged in
a photo that was taken in my bathing suit and
an incredibly unflattering angle from a dude who was on
(07:48):
another roof just a grown man taking photographs of me
in a bathing suit. That's the picture to this day
that makes me want to cry. But you look, thank you.
But I have body image issues, you know what I'm saying.
And I've had them since bulling that happened to me
in fifth grade, people telling me that I was ugly,
and people the amount of comments that I got. They
were like, oh my god, you look like a whale.
(08:09):
You're so fat. I realized I was searching for these
negative comments because they were the validation of my insecurities.
Your mind looks for evidence of what you already think
is true. I spent the next week crying, feeling just
feeling so terrible in my own body because I was
(08:30):
just like, I have no control over how people see me.
I have no control over whether or not my half
naked body is going to be slathered somewhere. They can
just do that and I have to just sit there
with that, Like people's whole identities are being controlled online.
It is our privacy gets invaded and we have to
(08:50):
be able to take it. But there's certain things that
we should not take. But the people online they don't
consider celebrities. They don't they're like, oh, well, you're so privileged,
you should be able to deal with. You knew what
you were getting yourself into. How can we give people
out there tools and recommendations on how they can work
through some of this stuff, because not everybody can afford
therapy if you could share some of the things that
(09:10):
have made you feel better. I've noticed that the way
other people's comments about me affect me has way more
always to do with how well I'm keeping up with
my own self. Care what I think about myself when
I'm reading that comment mentally, emotionally, and physically, I've learned
is a thing for me. I exist as a whole person,
and who is that person? Am I happy with her?
(09:30):
Because if I'm not happy with her, I'm always going
to be looking for the negative comment that validates whatever
it is I'm feeling about myself. But if I understand
and they come from a place of self love that
is so strong and fortified, I don't care what people
say about because they don't know me. You and God,
I know that now it took a long time for
you to feel like that. Oh it's still it's still
(09:52):
taking time. The knowledge is one thing, Integrating knowledge another
because to me, this deep rooted, like I want to
make you feel terrible about those people are not well,
there's something mentally wrong with the way that they view life.
There's people that have bad intentions. So I say, I
surround myself with light, and that will not penetrate my sphere.
(10:13):
But if there's something I can do about getting him
out of that space, I will. And I'd like to
actually add somebody to the conversation right now. Ariel Winter
is an actress with a long list of credits, but
is most widely known for her portrayal of Alex Dumpy
on the TV series Modern Family. But ariel success in
the spotlight came at a cost. She became a target
(10:34):
for online bullies and was just twelve years old when
she was assailed by cruel and hurtful comments about her
body and appearance. This constant scrutiny only worse than ails depression,
from which she is still healing. Welcome, Ariel, Thank you both.
(10:59):
You know, it's an important conversation that we're having. You
grew up in the public eye. I started working in
the industry when I was four, and I got my
first movie when I was six. It's a beautiful thing,
and I'm very, very lucky obviously that I have had
that success. You know. It's things that people dream about,
and I'm so so grateful for it. I started on Instagram,
I think when I was eleven or twelve, and I
(11:20):
had a very different body type. I was so so
so skinny and small. I wished for boobs. I wanted
them so bad. And then on my twelfth birthday, got
my period and got my boots. Yeah, my body fully changed.
I was then like curvy, I had boobs. And then
everybody online was so empowered once they saw they could
be anonymous. The things that got said to me were
(11:43):
the worst. I got called a fat slot when I
was thirteen. That was rough because I I had gained
weight and my body changed. I had to wear different
outfits and I wore a dress that had cut out
here and it was like the headlines were dark. Fat
slot was rough for me, and it continued. It was
the fans. Some of them we have lovely, lovely fans,
but somewhere also hard on me in the way that
(12:05):
like they loved Alex Dumphie and because I wasn't Alex
Dumphie and I didn't look like Alex, I was just
different in that way. I'm not my character from them.
They're like, how did you go from like Alex Dumpy
to being like a horror You're trying to be sexy,
You're thirteen, Your horrible role model. What are you showing people?
You got so fat on TV? Now you look so fat.
Having my body changed so much. It also changed when
(12:25):
I was in high school because I got on antidepressants.
I gained thirty pounds. It was rough going to school,
It was rough online on my Instagram, it was like
flooding comments, flooding comments, and so then I was like, Okay,
they hate this about me. I need to work on it.
I need to be thinner, I need to change my hair.
Here my cheeks look weird. If I changed this about me,
the things they hate about me, I'm going to not
(12:47):
get that anymore. I'm gonna get praised. Can you see
yourself growing into being able to ignore and realizing that
these comments have absolutely nothing to do with you. I
realized that years ago after I spent so any years
trial and erroring with my appearance, and every time I
change something, something else was wrong. Some of the things
(13:08):
you change. I tried to lose weight, a lot of diets,
changed my hair, were makeup different or more revealing outfits
or less revealing outfits. By the way, if you want to,
that's great, but it should be from sexual just because
I feel like I look good. I look like a
snack or an entree honestly, and not a snack. Look,
(13:30):
we can be a snack. We want to be a snack,
but we're an entree. But you can, full course you
can put your titties out there and like feel good
about it and be like I put them out there.
They're not for you, these are for me. I can
put what I want about me online to tell me
that I'm I'm looking for it, that I'm I'm asking
for you to for you to say that to me.
I'm asking for the dick picks and my d ms,
(13:51):
I'm asking for all the things that are like disgusting
to read. There were a strong amount of people that
really just owing overwhelming amount negativity and also sexualization that
was really dark. Aero, I feel so much deep empathy
and like love for you. I cannot even fathom being
a nine year old, being a four year old, being
a six year old, being a fourteen year old. And
(14:13):
I know that you have to tailor it because you're
an actress and you have to do Everything's fine, and like,
my life is good and grant, so I don't The
headline is she's ungrateful way worse. Has there been a
moment for you where you already feel like your past
some of it? Are you still in them thick of it?
I'm definitely still on, definitely still on a journey. I've
(14:33):
been in therapy twice a week for years. I love
my therapist, I love my time and therapy. It is
the best space. Yeah. I just want to say, like
these conversations where we're open about therapy, especially in the
Latino culture and all of them, there's a stigma of oh,
you go to therapy, you're broken, something's wrong. Most of
us are broken and we need therapy to learn to
(14:54):
love ourselves. Well. I think this is a perfect moment
to bring in our guests. I would like to invite
Dr Tina Yan into the table. She's a psychologist what
I wanted to be, and aggression researcher who has made
it her life's work to understand why people bully. Welcome
Dr Oyan and and please enlighten us. I know you've
done a lot of research on this. What have you
(15:15):
found with your studies on aggression and bullying? We're seeing
things like the low levels of effective empathy. Effective empathy
is feeling the feelings of other people, they don't feel
the suffering of of victims. Is this behavior something that
maybe you learn at home because someone is doing it
(15:35):
to you, right, and then you get to school and
you're doing the same thing that you just learned from
another generation. In some families, you know, there's either abuse
or kids are simply witnessing that aggression works. And many
families look good from the outside. But if there's not
real you know, emotional closeness or whatever happens behind the scenes,
(15:58):
If there's underlying security that could actually turn into high
but inflated sense of self like narciss m. Those could
be reasons that it's bully others. And one way to
try to combat bullying, as I always say, is to
facilitate empathy and good morality. It is really hard to
bully somebody if you feel that somebody else is suffering.
(16:20):
I really want to bring someone else to the table
who has gone through the most difficult thing any parent
can go through, and you know, it's hard to escape
online harassment, and eleven percent of people who experienced it
have suicidal thoughts. It's a scary statistic that turned into
reality for one family, Aslanian lost her daughter to bully side.
(16:43):
They had no idea that she was experiencing daily traumatic
abuse at the hands of online bullying. Welcome me there,
Thank you. I appreciate it. I I really do. I
can only imagine the pain that you and your family
have gone through. Tell us it was three years ago. Yes,
it'll be three years ago in October, and she had
(17:05):
just turned sixteen. She was just always laughing, always smiling,
very close to her brothers and our family, and great student.
And she loved makeup. We would always joke around. I
would say, oh my god, I don't even know how
to put mascara on. And she started a whole Instagram
page and did all of these funky makeup things. And
she was so full of life. And if you don't mind,
(17:27):
I just wanted to read. Please please hello to whoever
is reading this. I'm writing this letter to anyone who
is curious about my story and where my life and
went so wrong. Excuse me if you already miss I'm
most likely gone. Out of respect for the people who
actually did care for me. I thought there should be written.
In seventh and eighth grade, I was body shamed a lot.
(17:48):
To make it worse, it was by boys that always
make fun of my shape and how I should be smaller.
I walked into seventh grade as a very confident girl,
but walking out of eighth grade, I left all of
my self esteem behind. They called me many degrading, hurtful names.
I let their words get to me, and I hated
myself and my figure so much. I tried to go
on several diets that never lasted. I never got the
(18:09):
results I wanted, and I just gave up. People really
have no idea what kind of impact they have on
your life. I can have all of the money in
the world, but I will still be me. That's when
I realized I really don't have anything to live for.
I just wish I were never born, or that I
just perished or disappeared. So it's just it's a difficult
(18:31):
thing because for any parent to hear that is, you know, devastating,
And how did she not know that I loved her
so much? I don't want to interrupt you by one time.
You seem like a absolutely wonderful mother, and not everybody
gets I appreciate that a mother that cares so much,
and I'm so deeply sorry for your loss. I just
want you to know you are a wonderful mother. Doctor.
(18:53):
Do you have anything to weigh in on this? Certainly,
and and first and foremost, Dithia, I'm so in crampy
sorry for your law. Thank you. What research has shown
is that people who are buoyed by others start believing
that I am that person. I don't deserve to have friends,
I am fat, or I am ugly, I am not
worthy even living. It really looks to me that your
(19:15):
daughter was deeply, deeply suffering to the point at which
she she really began to believe that she is the
one at wrong here. And that is a difficult situation
for anybody to handle, because that's really what it is
is you don't feel like you deserve the love because
the bullying is taking that deserve ability away from you.
It's strangers, or it's people that don't know you personally
(19:38):
telling you things that you're already insecure about because I don't.
That makes it even worse. There's also something called popularity competition,
wanting to get status, wanting to be cool, popular, admired
by Pierre. So unfortunately, teenagers tend to go about that
with aggression and systematically putting other people down, using other
(20:00):
kids instrumentally. So I just want to be admired by
these high school guys over here when I'm still in
middle school, so I can torture this innocent victim over
here because I don't feel the suffering of the victim.
And the sad thing is that unless we change the
social culture, the goals and values that teenagers have, let's say,
in that particular school, unfortunately other kids are awarding this
(20:24):
type of behavior with actual status. What I've noticed is
the people who are the meanest do it with the
intention of getting likes and retweet pity out of the situation.
And when I think back to when I was younger,
I did things that were out of character to be
accepted by the bullies. I just feel that our kids,
(20:46):
they live in such a society where everything is immediate.
It's instant gratification, exactly. And you think, I'm never going
to feel better, because I know that when I was fifteen,
I had a lot of difficulties because I thought that
it wasn't going to change, because when you're that age,
you think that it will be there forever at the
end of the door. You don't say past that, so
(21:07):
don't What did you learn from her Litterally, she felt
that she was too trustworthy of people that she looked
to that would always have her back friends, and that
wasn't the case. Doc O. There differences in the way
that bullying affects children and adults. Yes, you know, middle school,
high school, whatever happens without tears. If it's negative, I'm rejected,
(21:30):
let alone, I'm actually bullied because it can be a
little thing like you know, I'm not invited to the party.
It hurts so much more because you know, our sense
of self, our identity development, it's not there yet. We're
much more sensitive and vulnerable. And self esteem on average,
by the way, dips drastically right around the onset of
middle school, and it dips more for girls and for boys.
(21:52):
So girls and women do have that vulnerability already built in.
Lots to say here, but I hope, I hope this
helps a lot. Okay, thank you, dctor. And how much
of her bullying was happening on social media? I would
probably say eighty percent of it was through social media.
People say, well, what do you suggest for parents, and
I suggest is uncomfortable as it is, I think we
(22:15):
need to have those conversations. Talk to somebody please just
talk to somebody. Create your red table at home to
have I love that table place to have these conversations.
Bat to all the parents out their lives that wait
until they show shigns, even though they may not like it.
Ask the question. Yes, we need to not assume people
(22:36):
are doing amazing and ask more. I want to thank
you so much, thank you sharing your story, and I
want to close today actually with yes. With Anna's last words,
I hope I can bring awareness as to how serious
mental health is. I personally think mental health is more
important than physical health. I really hope people will start
(22:56):
to try and make changes with everything in this world
now that I can no longer contribute. She's contributing right now,
and we'll continue to contribute through you and your family.
I imagine that every time you read that, it does
and you know what, even in her darkest moment, I
think one of the most beautiful things that she was
(23:17):
thinking about the world. Yes, absolutely, Lauren Ariel, thank you all.
It's been an honor, so thank you. Bullying is never okay.
If you're someone you care about has experienced bullying, you
can find support at NAMI and a m I dot org,
or look for anti bullying resources at ib p a
(23:40):
world dot org, Forward Slash Resources. Thanks for listening. To
join the red table Talk family and become a part
of the conversation, follow us at Facebook dot com, forward slash,
red table Talk is stefns, red table Talk Stefunds is
a section of Westbrook Studios in partnership with I Heart
(24:03):
Radio's Michael Tura podcast Network. For more podcasts from my heart,
visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
Bienveni, thos Me and Gloria Stephen. Here you are listening
to Red Table Talk via Stephens Podcast, all your favorite
episodes from our Facebook watch show in audio. I got
called the fat Slot when I was thirteen, shamed by
online bullies. They found the picture where my girlfriend and
I were dissing, victimized. How did you go from alex
(00:22):
Sanfi to Bianca horror? A mother's worst nightmare, her daughter bullied.
If you already missed the most likely god to death,
sorry your sound star. Online bullying and harassment of women
(00:47):
is at an all time high, and it's just getting worse.
Four in ten Americans have experienced it, and of women
say it's a major problem. On a daily basis, women
and especially those in the line I deal with the
worst kinds of profanity, as well as rape and death threats,
from anxiety, depression to suicide. The consequences are severe and undeniable.
(01:13):
When I was growing up, I didn't have this. My
version of bullying was a slam book and that was
where someone would be targeted. Well, those still existed in
my high school, or a rumor in school somebody's saying
something about you, but you would locate the person, look
at the person or interface, or you know. It was
(01:33):
another experience, had nothing to do with someone that was
hiding behind an account. Now it has been elevated to
the nth degree because of the accessibility any platform is worldwide.
All of us have suffered a bit of the bullying
and online harassment. Here's an example of what of mine.
I had COVID In November. I posted a video message saying, look,
(01:58):
I want you to know it. Okay what my best
friends is a world renowned infectious disease doctor and she
gave me these things to take, so I'm going to
share them with you. I usually don't read comments, but
I go, oh, let me see this was one of them.
Bull crap? How did you get so famous? Glorious Stefan?
Are you a communist, Illuminati, Freemasons, Jesuit or they're covering
(02:20):
the base? The numbers are a lie. Coronaviruses have been
on this earth forever. We cannot keep wearing masks, living
in our homes. Are doing what the government tells us
to do. You, of all people should know this. Stop
pushing us to be a slave to the government. All
I did was say I had COVID. I feel good
and this is what I talk Illuminati. Well that part
you got right, okay? Yes, and Illuminati, what the hell
(02:42):
can I tell you? Flag? I mean, you have a
daily show. Yes, it's a gossip show. It's an entertainment show.
You will also take a lot of abuse. There were
some days that you get beautiful things. But the other days,
if I said something in this show about someone that has,
you know, mean us of fans. I know that many
times they would even attack Lording and Lena. Of course
(03:04):
they've told Lena you're ugly and that's why your father
abandoned you. Something that has nothing to do. What's the
reality of what's going on? They go to the lowest place. Yes,
and you you were bullied. The very first post you
put online was in two thousand and fifteen. Yeah, when
you decided to share a photo of yourself, which I
(03:25):
find you incredibly cute and adorable in the photo. I
had just cut my hair. To me posting that picture,
I was excited you were happy with the pictures with it.
I'm like, oh, I feel more like myself. More people
than not were like, oh my god, lesbian just come
out of the closet. Already such a shame. Your mom
is so beautiful and you have to look like that
like another career, and I was like, what the hell, Like,
(03:48):
who takes the time to do that? There's always ill
intent on the other side of that comment, And this
was probably one of the only comments the post about
you and almost made me sick. I was dating Gem
for a year and I posted a sure and somebody
put I hope that you both get sexually assaulted with
a rusty metal stick that has aids on it and
(04:10):
you die slow and painful death. I was like, WHOA.
I just deleted it and I took a deep breath.
But that one I thought about for a while, because
people will really hate without knowing anything about you, merely
for a choice about you that doesn't affect them at all,
exactly what I mean. Cyber bullying can be particularly traumatic
for the LGBT community. Pop star Lauren how Diggie, who
(04:34):
rose to fame with the girl band Fifth Harmony, was
publicly outed and the opportunity to come out was stolen
from her. Welcome Lauren, Maybe all right, let's cut to
the chase. So I have been very lucky that Perez Hilton,
who was a card carrying fan of my fan club,
(04:55):
has kind of been hands off of me. He usually
is not hands off of anyone. For those of you
who don't know Pres Hilton, he became a famous blogger
by by cyber bullying in two thousand and sixteen. He
was the harbinger of doom for you. I've been dating
the girlfriend that I had at the time for like
probably a year at that point, but we had fallen
in love. When I was like fifteen, I was at
(05:17):
my uncle's wedding in New Orleans and my aunt like
very innocently posted the photos from the photo booth onto
her Facebook page. It was like a link for the
family to be able to click on, and my fans
are just a little wild, and they found the picture
where my girlfriend and I we were drunk, so we
had taken a picture kissing. So he definitely outed me.
I wasn't ready because I'm also Latina, you know, So
(05:38):
there was that whole looming thing of like, what is
my community going to feel about me? Are they even
gonna accept me? I know that my family obviously accepted me,
but was that something that they were willing to deal
with on a public scale? Because I have family members
who hit me up once it came out, who hit
my parents up? Like family? Some of them did, some
of them didn't. Like my immediate family knew, but like
(06:00):
outsourced family didn't know. But it was like yeah, because,
like you said, if you're not ready and this is
a big portion people they take, you feel like something
has been taken. I felt like my own process was violated.
I mean, I've had a lot of cyber bullyings. What
was the first one? The very first one was before
fame even hit me. It was in sixth grade where
(06:22):
some friends of mine created like a whole page on
a I M pages, like something like people that I
considered friends. I liked this boy. This boy liked me
back his sixth grade druma. But one of my friends
really liked him at the time, and so she was
really hurt that I had said yes to being his
girlfriend at field day, and so she and like a
(06:43):
whole group of my friends created a page that was
like Lauren is a slat an online slam book, online
slam book, and they posted it and then like everyone
that was in my school saw it, and I remember
coming home and seeing it and just feeling sick. To
my stomach because I was like, these are girls that
I consider my friends, and they're like publicly humiliating me
(07:03):
and calling me a slut when I have never even
kissed a boy. Now these girls are like mad at
me and not eating lunch with me, and I feel
like a slut. And I didn't even change yourself exactly,
and I didn't even know what that meant, you know
what I'm saying. And also, what is a slut? That's
a word made up to police women and their sexuality
(07:26):
and their expression of their sexuality. What happened in Brazil?
I think I was like eighteen or nineteen, and I
was minding my business on the rooftop in a bathing suit,
going in the pool. Later on that day, I go
online and there's just a slew of me tagged in
a photo that was taken in my bathing suit and
an incredibly unflattering angle from a dude who was on
(07:48):
another roof just a grown man taking photographs of me
in a bathing suit. That's the picture to this day
that makes me want to cry. But you look, thank you.
But I have body image issues, you know what I'm saying.
And I've had them since bulling that happened to me
in fifth grade, people telling me that I was ugly,
and people the amount of comments that I got. They
were like, oh my god, you look like a whale.
(08:09):
You're so fat. I realized I was searching for these
negative comments because they were the validation of my insecurities.
Your mind looks for evidence of what you already think
is true. I spent the next week crying, feeling just
feeling so terrible in my own body because I was
(08:30):
just like, I have no control over how people see me.
I have no control over whether or not my half
naked body is going to be slathered somewhere. They can
just do that and I have to just sit there
with that, Like people's whole identities are being controlled online.
It is our privacy gets invaded and we have to
(08:50):
be able to take it. But there's certain things that
we should not take. But the people online they don't
consider celebrities. They don't they're like, oh, well, you're so privileged,
you should be able to deal with. You knew what
you were getting yourself into. How can we give people
out there tools and recommendations on how they can work
through some of this stuff, because not everybody can afford
therapy if you could share some of the things that
(09:10):
have made you feel better. I've noticed that the way
other people's comments about me affect me has way more
always to do with how well I'm keeping up with
my own self. Care what I think about myself when
I'm reading that comment mentally, emotionally, and physically, I've learned
is a thing for me. I exist as a whole person,
and who is that person? Am I happy with her?
(09:30):
Because if I'm not happy with her, I'm always going
to be looking for the negative comment that validates whatever
it is I'm feeling about myself. But if I understand
and they come from a place of self love that
is so strong and fortified, I don't care what people
say about because they don't know me. You and God,
I know that now it took a long time for
you to feel like that. Oh it's still it's still
(09:52):
taking time. The knowledge is one thing, Integrating knowledge another
because to me, this deep rooted, like I want to
make you feel terrible about those people are not well,
there's something mentally wrong with the way that they view life.
There's people that have bad intentions. So I say, I
surround myself with light, and that will not penetrate my sphere.
(10:13):
But if there's something I can do about getting him
out of that space, I will. And I'd like to
actually add somebody to the conversation right now. Ariel Winter
is an actress with a long list of credits, but
is most widely known for her portrayal of Alex Dumpy
on the TV series Modern Family. But ariel success in
the spotlight came at a cost. She became a target
(10:34):
for online bullies and was just twelve years old when
she was assailed by cruel and hurtful comments about her
body and appearance. This constant scrutiny only worse than ails depression,
from which she is still healing. Welcome, Ariel, Thank you both.
(10:59):
You know, it's an important conversation that we're having. You
grew up in the public eye. I started working in
the industry when I was four, and I got my
first movie when I was six. It's a beautiful thing,
and I'm very, very lucky obviously that I have had
that success. You know. It's things that people dream about,
and I'm so so grateful for it. I started on Instagram,
I think when I was eleven or twelve, and I
(11:20):
had a very different body type. I was so so
so skinny and small. I wished for boobs. I wanted
them so bad. And then on my twelfth birthday, got
my period and got my boots. Yeah, my body fully changed.
I was then like curvy, I had boobs. And then
everybody online was so empowered once they saw they could
be anonymous. The things that got said to me were
(11:43):
the worst. I got called a fat slot when I
was thirteen. That was rough because I I had gained
weight and my body changed. I had to wear different
outfits and I wore a dress that had cut out
here and it was like the headlines were dark. Fat
slot was rough for me, and it continued. It was
the fans. Some of them we have lovely, lovely fans,
but somewhere also hard on me in the way that
(12:05):
like they loved Alex Dumphie and because I wasn't Alex
Dumphie and I didn't look like Alex, I was just
different in that way. I'm not my character from them.
They're like, how did you go from like Alex Dumpy
to being like a horror You're trying to be sexy,
You're thirteen, Your horrible role model. What are you showing people?
You got so fat on TV? Now you look so fat.
Having my body changed so much. It also changed when
(12:25):
I was in high school because I got on antidepressants.
I gained thirty pounds. It was rough going to school,
It was rough online on my Instagram, it was like
flooding comments, flooding comments, and so then I was like, Okay,
they hate this about me. I need to work on it.
I need to be thinner, I need to change my hair.
Here my cheeks look weird. If I changed this about me,
the things they hate about me, I'm going to not
(12:47):
get that anymore. I'm gonna get praised. Can you see
yourself growing into being able to ignore and realizing that
these comments have absolutely nothing to do with you. I
realized that years ago after I spent so any years
trial and erroring with my appearance, and every time I
change something, something else was wrong. Some of the things
(13:08):
you change. I tried to lose weight, a lot of diets,
changed my hair, were makeup different or more revealing outfits
or less revealing outfits. By the way, if you want to,
that's great, but it should be from sexual just because
I feel like I look good. I look like a
snack or an entree honestly, and not a snack. Look,
(13:30):
we can be a snack. We want to be a snack,
but we're an entree. But you can, full course you
can put your titties out there and like feel good
about it and be like I put them out there.
They're not for you, these are for me. I can
put what I want about me online to tell me
that I'm I'm looking for it, that I'm I'm asking
for you to for you to say that to me.
I'm asking for the dick picks and my d ms,
(13:51):
I'm asking for all the things that are like disgusting
to read. There were a strong amount of people that
really just owing overwhelming amount negativity and also sexualization that
was really dark. Aero, I feel so much deep empathy
and like love for you. I cannot even fathom being
a nine year old, being a four year old, being
a six year old, being a fourteen year old. And
(14:13):
I know that you have to tailor it because you're
an actress and you have to do Everything's fine, and like,
my life is good and grant, so I don't The
headline is she's ungrateful way worse. Has there been a
moment for you where you already feel like your past
some of it? Are you still in them thick of it?
I'm definitely still on, definitely still on a journey. I've
(14:33):
been in therapy twice a week for years. I love
my therapist, I love my time and therapy. It is
the best space. Yeah. I just want to say, like
these conversations where we're open about therapy, especially in the
Latino culture and all of them, there's a stigma of oh,
you go to therapy, you're broken, something's wrong. Most of
us are broken and we need therapy to learn to
(14:54):
love ourselves. Well. I think this is a perfect moment
to bring in our guests. I would like to invite
Dr Tina Yan into the table. She's a psychologist what
I wanted to be, and aggression researcher who has made
it her life's work to understand why people bully. Welcome
Dr Oyan and and please enlighten us. I know you've
done a lot of research on this. What have you
(15:15):
found with your studies on aggression and bullying? We're seeing
things like the low levels of effective empathy. Effective empathy
is feeling the feelings of other people, they don't feel
the suffering of of victims. Is this behavior something that
maybe you learn at home because someone is doing it
(15:35):
to you, right, and then you get to school and
you're doing the same thing that you just learned from
another generation. In some families, you know, there's either abuse
or kids are simply witnessing that aggression works. And many
families look good from the outside. But if there's not
real you know, emotional closeness or whatever happens behind the scenes,
(15:58):
If there's underlying security that could actually turn into high
but inflated sense of self like narciss m. Those could
be reasons that it's bully others. And one way to
try to combat bullying, as I always say, is to
facilitate empathy and good morality. It is really hard to
bully somebody if you feel that somebody else is suffering.
(16:20):
I really want to bring someone else to the table
who has gone through the most difficult thing any parent
can go through, and you know, it's hard to escape
online harassment, and eleven percent of people who experienced it
have suicidal thoughts. It's a scary statistic that turned into
reality for one family, Aslanian lost her daughter to bully side.
(16:43):
They had no idea that she was experiencing daily traumatic
abuse at the hands of online bullying. Welcome me there,
Thank you. I appreciate it. I I really do. I
can only imagine the pain that you and your family
have gone through. Tell us it was three years ago. Yes,
it'll be three years ago in October, and she had
(17:05):
just turned sixteen. She was just always laughing, always smiling,
very close to her brothers and our family, and great student.
And she loved makeup. We would always joke around. I
would say, oh my god, I don't even know how
to put mascara on. And she started a whole Instagram
page and did all of these funky makeup things. And
she was so full of life. And if you don't mind,
(17:27):
I just wanted to read. Please please hello to whoever
is reading this. I'm writing this letter to anyone who
is curious about my story and where my life and
went so wrong. Excuse me if you already miss I'm
most likely gone. Out of respect for the people who
actually did care for me. I thought there should be written.
In seventh and eighth grade, I was body shamed a lot.
(17:48):
To make it worse, it was by boys that always
make fun of my shape and how I should be smaller.
I walked into seventh grade as a very confident girl,
but walking out of eighth grade, I left all of
my self esteem behind. They called me many degrading, hurtful names.
I let their words get to me, and I hated
myself and my figure so much. I tried to go
on several diets that never lasted. I never got the
(18:09):
results I wanted, and I just gave up. People really
have no idea what kind of impact they have on
your life. I can have all of the money in
the world, but I will still be me. That's when
I realized I really don't have anything to live for.
I just wish I were never born, or that I
just perished or disappeared. So it's just it's a difficult
(18:31):
thing because for any parent to hear that is, you know, devastating,
And how did she not know that I loved her
so much? I don't want to interrupt you by one time.
You seem like a absolutely wonderful mother, and not everybody
gets I appreciate that a mother that cares so much,
and I'm so deeply sorry for your loss. I just
want you to know you are a wonderful mother. Doctor.
(18:53):
Do you have anything to weigh in on this? Certainly,
and and first and foremost, Dithia, I'm so in crampy
sorry for your law. Thank you. What research has shown
is that people who are buoyed by others start believing
that I am that person. I don't deserve to have friends,
I am fat, or I am ugly, I am not
worthy even living. It really looks to me that your
(19:15):
daughter was deeply, deeply suffering to the point at which
she she really began to believe that she is the
one at wrong here. And that is a difficult situation
for anybody to handle, because that's really what it is
is you don't feel like you deserve the love because
the bullying is taking that deserve ability away from you.
It's strangers, or it's people that don't know you personally
(19:38):
telling you things that you're already insecure about because I don't.
That makes it even worse. There's also something called popularity competition,
wanting to get status, wanting to be cool, popular, admired
by Pierre. So unfortunately, teenagers tend to go about that
with aggression and systematically putting other people down, using other
(20:00):
kids instrumentally. So I just want to be admired by
these high school guys over here when I'm still in
middle school, so I can torture this innocent victim over
here because I don't feel the suffering of the victim.
And the sad thing is that unless we change the
social culture, the goals and values that teenagers have, let's say,
in that particular school, unfortunately other kids are awarding this
(20:24):
type of behavior with actual status. What I've noticed is
the people who are the meanest do it with the
intention of getting likes and retweet pity out of the situation.
And when I think back to when I was younger,
I did things that were out of character to be
accepted by the bullies. I just feel that our kids,
(20:46):
they live in such a society where everything is immediate.
It's instant gratification, exactly. And you think, I'm never going
to feel better, because I know that when I was fifteen,
I had a lot of difficulties because I thought that
it wasn't going to change, because when you're that age,
you think that it will be there forever at the
end of the door. You don't say past that, so
(21:07):
don't What did you learn from her Litterally, she felt
that she was too trustworthy of people that she looked
to that would always have her back friends, and that
wasn't the case. Doc O. There differences in the way
that bullying affects children and adults. Yes, you know, middle school,
high school, whatever happens without tears. If it's negative, I'm rejected,
(21:30):
let alone, I'm actually bullied because it can be a
little thing like you know, I'm not invited to the party.
It hurts so much more because you know, our sense
of self, our identity development, it's not there yet. We're
much more sensitive and vulnerable. And self esteem on average,
by the way, dips drastically right around the onset of
middle school, and it dips more for girls and for boys.
(21:52):
So girls and women do have that vulnerability already built in.
Lots to say here, but I hope, I hope this
helps a lot. Okay, thank you, dctor. And how much
of her bullying was happening on social media? I would
probably say eighty percent of it was through social media.
People say, well, what do you suggest for parents, and
I suggest is uncomfortable as it is, I think we
(22:15):
need to have those conversations. Talk to somebody please just
talk to somebody. Create your red table at home to
have I love that table place to have these conversations.
Bat to all the parents out their lives that wait
until they show shigns, even though they may not like it.
Ask the question. Yes, we need to not assume people
(22:36):
are doing amazing and ask more. I want to thank
you so much, thank you sharing your story, and I
want to close today actually with yes. With Anna's last words,
I hope I can bring awareness as to how serious
mental health is. I personally think mental health is more
important than physical health. I really hope people will start
(22:56):
to try and make changes with everything in this world
now that I can no longer contribute. She's contributing right now,
and we'll continue to contribute through you and your family.
I imagine that every time you read that, it does
and you know what, even in her darkest moment, I
think one of the most beautiful things that she was
(23:17):
thinking about the world. Yes, absolutely, Lauren Ariel, thank you all.
It's been an honor, so thank you. Bullying is never okay.
If you're someone you care about has experienced bullying, you
can find support at NAMI and a m I dot org,
or look for anti bullying resources at ib p a
(23:40):
world dot org, Forward Slash Resources. Thanks for listening. To
join the red table Talk family and become a part
of the conversation, follow us at Facebook dot com, forward slash,
red table Talk is stefns, red table Talk Stefunds is
a section of Westbrook Studios in partnership with I Heart
(24:03):
Radio's Michael Tura podcast Network. For more podcasts from my heart,
visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
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