September 29, 2021 • 29 mins
On this episode of Red Table Talk: The Estefans, family friend and actor Kate Del Castillo joins the conversation for an honest chat about past relationships and experiences, including her interview with El Chapo.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Bien venidos Me and Gloria Stefan. Here you are listening
to Red Table Talk via Stephens Podcast. All your favorite
episodes from our Facebook watch show in audio on this
red tabletop via Stephens. Kate de Castillo is a popular
(00:20):
international superstar. Off screen, her troubles with high profile men
are notorious. A violent marriage. I never told anybody he
was taking me and strangling me. Ties to the dangerous
drug lord El Chapel, and Chapel himself takes you to
(00:40):
the room where you were going to sleep that night.
My legs were shaking eye and was going to be
great or killed? A relationship with Sean Penn. How did
you feel with that betrayal? He planned everything, even getting
in my bed. How she nearly lost it all? It
was me trying to survive and is fighting her way
(01:02):
back at your worst moment, did you feel that you
would not be able to come back from it? Whens
In is septing and this guy. Everybody knows that it's
Cosmo time, Cosmal time, all right, And I thought that
before we hit the Red Table today we would have
(01:23):
a little cocktail to toast one of the coolest women
we know, A good friend and also like a Badassis.
She got involved with her chappo in a very interesting story,
a chaplesman. You'll hear who he is. If you don't
know already, we're gonna talk about it. He done right
(01:48):
on time through. I'm so happy here. I'm very happy
to be here. Thank you for coming to the table.
It's a place of vulnerability and truth. We all know
(02:11):
that you are a strong woman and but honestly, I
wish I could be later another suit like you, a
suit the Miami. What do you feel that people don't
really understand about you? Well, um, that I'm not. People
think that I'm that tough, and yes, I'm a tough woman,
but I'm very vulnerable that I come from a very
(02:33):
you know, very conservative My dad was going to be
a priest, ended up being an actor. As a good
Mexican girl, I lived with my parents and I got married.
You had a beautiful way wedding forever. I mean, we thought,
oh my god, this is great. She married a football player,
(02:55):
and then you're not happy later out of the blue domestic.
It was a violent marriage. It was a very bad marriage.
In two thousand one, Kate Decastillo married the man of
her dreams soccer player Luise get A Sea Apple Stiegel,
but the honeymoon fairy tale quickly turned into a nightmare.
(03:17):
Kid says what started as emotional abuse quickly escalated, turning physical,
and after a year and a half of living in fear,
Kate found the courage to leave and filed for divorce.
It was a public records and everybody knew about what happened,
so it was not only embarrassing in a way, and
(03:37):
you're hurting, you know, because you're divorcing. All the eyes
on you and why you are happened this happened. It's
like they're like, well, it's because you liked it or well,
it's like we don't. Sometimes they didn't believe me, and
I'm like, oh my god, it's like really because I
never told anybody. I was just like kidnapped in my house. Literally,
(04:00):
he didn't let me go out nothing, and and he
didn't want me to work, which, by the way, it's
kind of like the typical Latin male thing I'm going
to take care of. Oh yes, not all of them,
because I've got a great Hispanic man too, but generally
the machista situation that happens a lot did you get
any clues before you marry him that you ignore what
I would be happy to say, No, I didn't. But
(04:22):
now I totally understand how stupid I was and how
in love I was, So it's not stupid. It's actually
I tell my kids all the time, love is a drug.
I think that at the beginning of a relationship, you're clouded,
Your senses are clouded. You make excuses for things because
a woman who's married forty three years but not why
(04:43):
do you think I was with your dad three years
before we got married. Take your time, people, take your time.
Remember my three year rules. Nobody can hide for three years.
Just waited out. What's the rush? You know? There's no rush. Listen.
My dad told and this is the Spanish, so say
i'm an no cannot be all and you can only
(05:04):
apply it to women, you know. And it's true. He
didn't because he was very funny, very likable, charming, like
like really charming, and then he would cry his eyes out,
you know, guilt and embrace me and the rodigas on
his knees like please forgive me, from give me and
I need help. You let it slide. I let it.
(05:24):
I was so in love different person. I wanted it
to work so hard. I tried everything I could. I
knew what probably since we were in our honeymoon and
cry my eyes out and I just waited for him
to fall asleep and then I will go out and
just cry. And I was like, what did I do?
He was a different man. I was afraid, literally of
the guy. I remember being asleep or not asleep, but
(05:47):
faking it, baking it. When I hear it was coming
in the keys, my heart started. I'm looking at you,
and I can't believe that Kate and Castino was ever afraid? Man?
How did you finally get out? He went to Japan
to the World Cup. When he left, I saw my
face in the mirrorge I saw myself so ugly. I
(06:08):
was like, I didn't recognize myself in the mirror. I said,
no more. Not one day more. His parents called me, okay,
had you heard it from Reis No? And I'm like,
uh no, and actually I need to talk to you guys.
Remember at Christmas time that he was like scratched all
over his face and they were like yeah, yeah, yeah,
(06:28):
Well he didn't fail, as he said, it was me
because he was kicking me. And strangling me. So it
was me trying to survive. So I'm telling you this
because I'm living. Did they try to stop you from
doing that? Oh? No, then they knew problem. No, no,
because you know sometimes parents we have no control over
(06:51):
our kids behavior. At least that you know, you had
their supporting, they understood. Yeah, you know what, And it's
tough for women out there because you are a strong woman,
and you have gusos, you have resources, you have a career,
you have something that you could do that imagine, as
we all know, a woman that is now has children
that the man is so bred window were they're afraid
(07:13):
they'll hurt the children. So now we have a lot
more things for women available. But still to make that
leaps a difficult decision. And you say that you fix
yourself because you went on a few years later and
you get married again. To be honest, it was really
stupid of me, irresponsible, because I knew it was not
gonna work. Aaron, who was much younger than me, fun everything,
(07:35):
you know, when on motorcycles we would go hiking, We
did amazing things that I love to do and I
couldn't do before. And we started kind of living together
and don't that. And my parents hated it because they're
conservative and they're like, you, Mary, get married. Do you
feel safe for him, Yes, very very much so in
in that way. Yes he was a good guy. Yes
he's a good guy. But you were on the rebound.
(07:57):
Don't ever be married the go. Be careful with the rebounds.
Sometimes you said, Okay, this didn't work. Maybe if I
jump right into this. Noo, NOI see. But you know
it was fun and it was nothing like the other
It was nice and beautiful, but you know, I just
didn't I was not in love, to be honest, for
(08:21):
you to sit here and say, you know what, Honestly,
I was this and I wasn't thinking that a lot
of people won't even get to that point of accountability.
Sometimes people criticize me because I've been married twice, because
I have no kids. So I just want to tell
the people that it's because I wanted to your choice.
I'm it's my choice. Sometimes people don't have a choice.
(08:41):
I'm living the life that I wanted to live my life,
not anybody else. Okay, beautiful and then you mean chapel.
Everything stirs with a tweet In two thousand twelves they
call it the Chapel tweet or whatever it was not
to Chapel. Was not directed to a Chapel at all.
It was a heart, open heart manifesto that was saying
about what I believe in and what I don't believe.
(09:03):
And I said, I believe more in someone like a
Chapel that you at least know straightforward who he is
than all the criminals that are in our government. Upset
with corruption in the Mexican government, Kate shared her views
on Twitter, but this line changed her life today. I
believe more in a Chapel Gusman than in the governments
(09:24):
that hide truths from me. It unintentionally gave it Chapel
a call to action and would result in keep becoming
the only person that Guzman trusted with his life story.
My life changed, and I'm like, what did I And
everybody was you have to delete the tweets? You have
to and there like I'm not dealing what we did
(09:45):
again in again, like there's not one word here that
I don't believe in. Why would I delete that? No, everybody, everybody,
I was like, casa away, no way, oh no, this
is the first time I bring out my gabble here
bod okay, so you posted to me what happens? How
did you get connected with their chapel? His lawyers uh
(10:07):
called my parents house. They never said who they were,
of course, and my mom is like, oh, they're calling
you for a big movie, Hollywood movie. At the end
they told me, because we're in hiding right now, we
are Mr Guzman's uh lawyers. But he was, he was
in jail by then. He wasn't prisoned, of course, because
all of a sudden the filmmaker and you is going
absolutely to a producer. I'm of course, and the guy
(10:32):
is giving it to me. So I was like, oh
my god, I'm interested, like right now. So I jumped
in the plane. My heart starts like what are you doing? Kate?
So every ware wait, are you alone? Alone? Alone? Alone?
Nobody knew, not my parents, of course nobody. So I
started feeling something and I take the picture of the
(10:53):
tail of the claim and I sent it to my
best friend Jessica, and I just say, just make sure
I come back tonight. If you don't hear from me,
track this play you know, I and and and please
don't ask me any questions. They get to Luca see
two guys in their suits and they're waiting there for me,
and we went to have lunch and they're saying, well,
(11:13):
the guy wants to give you the rights of his
story life. And I'm like, okay, that's great, but just
so you know, I'm gonna tell the truth, not his
fairy tale story. And he's like, that's exactly why he
picked you, because he knows you're straightforward, you don't lie.
He also thinks, Mendoza fall in love, you fall in
love with the character. Is how the hell that Sean
(11:38):
Penn get up in this smith. After her secret meeting,
Kate was one step closer to producing a film about
his Chapel's life. She caught the attention of a pair
of a list Hollywood producers who vowed to help her
get it made. By the time they told her Sean
Penn was interested, Kate was eager to bring more credibility
to the project. She had fear the film was in
(12:00):
jeopardy since Chapel had escaped from prison and was on
the run. So he escapes. I'm like, well, now we
have nothing, and and the producer was like, no, it
just got better. Our story just got better. He escaped
because he wanted to meet you. What happened start the tunnel? Now,
(12:22):
well that's that's what he started that tunnel right after
your tweet. Yeah, So so everything set up and then
I met Sean and he's like, so is he Why
did you have come? We should meet with him? And
they're like that serious and they're like, let's do this.
So I tell yes, and I'm bringing three friends who
are the producer and Champainn. The lawyers is like, can
(12:43):
you tell me who Champainn is? And like like, well,
he's a big actually just google him. It's like, okay,
I'm gonna google for asking me who is Champainn? And
I rented a private plane? You rented I did? I
hope I got money back. I was about to say
you chappo if you're listening to her, but for the plane,
you cannot take anyone. I can't take it. So no
(13:05):
one pays for this plane, only you. It's your project.
Did you know where you landed? We went from Van
Nice to Guada airport and then they picked us up.
So at what point did you meet after? How? I
don't know how many hours? We were so tired, but
Chapel opened the door for me, and I didn't recognize it.
(13:26):
I've never seen him, right, I've seen pictures of him
what he was young, so I don't know how he
looks like. And I knew he wasn't because I heard
because of his boys and because he told me amiga
and he called me amiga right away. So right away,
what was happening with Sean Paim at this point? Was
it with you? Well? Yeah, I was shown by that moment.
I just met him a week before and we're all
(13:46):
on the same page. We start talking and then sound
and he's like just right next to me. He was
sitting right here, and he's like with a big, huge smile,
looking at me, but staring at me, and so we'll
talk and he was like, oh, so this is I
thought it was showing us in front of us. Yes.
(14:09):
Suddenly Sean starts saying, tell him that I want to
interview him for for what was the name Rolling So magazine?
And I was just like, wait, this was not on
the script. So he has you there? He asked you there. Yes,
he threw you under the bus there. I cannot do
a face because he's going to notice that something's wrong.
You'll pick up on it. And this guy is gonna
(14:29):
be dead and just a blink of right. Okay, so
that was you were blindsided by that, obviously, but also
I'm sure it was how are you supposed to say no?
How do you maneuver that situation? He's not going to
say no because he loves that you're there, and you
came all that way with him, and he just probably
didn't want to make you look bad either. Yeah, it's
truly interesting that I'm liking a chapel way more than
(14:49):
jump at all. Right, So the wholy interviews through when
we went back, and that was my nightmare started there. Okay,
but before you went back, and Chapo himself takes you
to the room where you were going to sleep that night,
He said, Miga, I think you have to go to sleep.
We didn't even know that we were going to stay there.
(15:10):
I thought it was I was going to be raped
and definitely killed or something like you know what he
could have done? Whatever the hell he was, What can
I do? He's not gonna kill you? Yeah, right, he
grabbed me like I grabbed my grandmother exactly. Well, Miga,
you're not gonna see me again. And I'm like, because
I'm taking off right now, and I'm like, okay, okay, um,
(15:32):
you know what, thinking about the movie, what if don't
fuck in if we donate some money when we do
the movie for all the people that have lost people
because of the 're gonna spine And I was like,
I was like, oh, he kills me or something. But
it was my only opportunity. He has a huge eyes
(15:53):
and very powerful and he stares at me and he's like,
that's why I like you. Let's do that. We hugged.
We hugged, and he's like, I'm off. He left a night. Really,
I was crawling to the fed my my legs were shaking.
I couldn't believe it, and I crushed. I didn't take
nothing off. I just passed. And then probably an hour
(16:15):
later and we're and I see Sean and I see
that they were there, right everyone. So we had to
leave like really fast because somebody was coming and they
knew something happened. And literally almost twenty four hours after
we left, the military came in and started shooting. Oh
my day. Yes, Champagne mentioned at checkpoint, so it wasn't true.
(16:40):
He just put it there to sparkle a little bit.
His stupid story. There was never a checkpoint. I hated
him for that, but that's why his His article was
full of what was supposed to be a discreet meeting
for Sean and Kate turned into an international scandal. A
few weeks after their meeting with the drug lord, the
Mexican government captured the kingpin and claimed tracking Kate's visit
(17:04):
was essential to the mission. Rolling Stone then published Sean
Penn's article, and El Chapel's first ever public interview took
the world by storm. To Kate's dismay, Sean had changed
and embellished the story, leaving her feeling betrayed and fooled
for facilitating and translating the interview. When the story came out,
(17:29):
I never I never talked to him again. One time
when I was solely destroyed, and I said, I'm going
to write to processor magazine, which I did. I told
the truth, okay, but they understand that we are seeing
the scandal all over. They would trustally bey single day
for months, for months, and one day someone asked you
(17:50):
were you having something with Sean Penn? And you said, well,
but that at the point did you start a lot
of relationship with Sean Payne, Because then that complicated through
us on the plane back, only the both of us,
and we were so excited. I had a champagne bottle.
It's like, oh, you did it and we are alive.
(18:12):
So um. So we celebrated, both of us and there
was something there. How did you celebrate? Oh you just
opened the owner. Not not like that. But let me
do you know the media they asked me if I
had something romantic, if I had a relationship, and I no,
(18:32):
I only had sex like it just happened. Had I
been a man, Oh yeah, then it would be viewed
like oh yeah, you know, like that's so fantastic. Okay,
But he threw her under the bus. Not only that,
but he used me as a bait. That's not cool.
And then he never protected me and reached my life
and my parents life, and my sister's life and everybody
(18:55):
surrounding me. So he ked you in every way possible.
The bottom she was really China, like China, hold it in, yes,
or what hurt you the most? Because this was I
mean it hurt me that I was so stupid and
so naive and so stupid that you can see the
whole thing. If I didn't have the American passport. I
(19:16):
would be in jail. That's that's bad easy. Out of
the four people who visited a Chapel, only Kate was
being investigated in Mexico for obstruction of justice and money
laundering crimes that could send her to prison for fifteen years.
Sean Penn and the two producers had secretly struck a
deal with Rolling Stone. They agreed to meet with El
(19:37):
Chapo as press on an official assignment, legally protecting the
three of them under journalism laws. As the Mexican government
reeled with the ridicule that someone else had gotten too
a chapel, first, they set up Kate as Chapel's lover
and accomplice. Kate had to flee her own country and
leave her work, life and family behind to avoid persecution.
(20:03):
They was saying, why didn't you tell the police where
you were or that you you know like, because then
you can get murderers. I don't want to get killed.
Second of all, that's not my job and an actress,
it's your job, Mexican government, to know where he is,
not mine. Second of all, I didn't see him commit
any crime. I didn't see him kill anybody. I didn't
see even nothing. And I have no idea what it
(20:29):
was crazy if I understanding that you almost went broke
paying lawyers. I have no savings, yes, because I've been
and I've been working and don't lad rain. Now I'm done,
Ingo Bernard. Everything has gone to paying lawyers and still
paying the Mexican government. I'm sorry, I don't mean to interrupt,
but I bet you a lot of it had to
do with the fact that they felt that here they
(20:51):
are on this man hunt supposedly for a chapel, and
you get an interview and you see him and whatnot.
So they may have felt food that we're punishing you
from That's exactly what happened that I think that's part
of what happened, is like how this actress out of
the blue just met with him and the Mexican government
can't find it. Of course, they always knew where he was.
(21:11):
Did you have any personal um repercussions like anxiety, like oh,
I still do. I still do, and I and I
have a gun. I got a gun and I sleep
with my gun next to me. The thing is that
I hope took the C C, I A and the
I R S and they told me that I had
a direct threat from the cartel, and I went but
(21:33):
listed I was. I started getting so mad. They told
me you you should, you should leave your house. Everybody
knows who you where you live. And I was like, well,
guess what, I'm not leaving if they're gonna they're gonna
kill me here in my house because because my own place,
so don't come and threaten me. Everybody here knows that
if something happens to me or my family, it's not
in it's going to be the Mexican government. But I
(21:54):
cannot talk about my help. My parents went through worse.
Papa is all over their house in the process. You
hurt people you love, do you feel I well, of
course I would take back that. My parents and my
my family and my all my friends were you know, scrutinized,
and they were. It was terrible. And then my phone
(22:15):
after three minutes only when I talked with my parents
and with my lawyers one minute and a half, and
I can hear that someone what was there three minutes
they cut my They didn't even let me talk to
my parents. That they were going through a health more
more worse than me. My dad would call me crying.
My parents, It's like, please go out and defend yourself
(22:35):
because I was silent for a long time. But when
you spoke, you spoke. I mean, you get a documentary
on it. People who glorious, just denying every single thing
they said. And my parents wanted me to do it
and I and they couldn't do it, and they were
so hurt saying that I was literally that's exactly what
they were saying, and that I had business with him,
(22:56):
and that I was laundering money. Your parents, everything that
you've done in your care year for so many years,
it's trashed in like this now. Your parents weren't saying
that the personal friends were. My parents never even asked
me anything. They never judged me. My real friends that
are still my real friends, never ever even asked me nothing.
(23:22):
There was someone next to you that helped you, and
that's your best friend. I always say, she is a
woman's woman, a girl's girl. She's very special. She worked
with us in a faca for a long time and
I want her to come to the table. Welcome. Jessica
mal Donado. Emmy Award winning TV host and journalists Jessica
(23:47):
Maldonado bravely supported her lifelong friend Kate Castillo to the
point of risking her own life to be a trusted confidante.
Jessica was my best reporter from l A ever. This
lady here stoic first, never judge me, never asked me why,
or or said I know she was going through hell.
(24:11):
The I r S. Everybody was on top of her.
Everybody all of us got oh yeah, so you only
big time. But she knows you what do you you
know her? Well? What is her superpower? Her superpower is
that she's a very resilient woman. Like muchas Latinos. I
think that that's something a trademark that Latina women have
(24:33):
come back. We we you know, it's like you have
to put us in boiling water to see how we
come up. There's a camon meal ty, but we always
rise above. So that's why I thought it was so
unfair when I would see that, they would say that, oh,
she's probably having sex with their chop boy. Go first
of all, you know he's a married man. She's a
famous sexy woman that he and that's exactly might have
(24:57):
to be sex. By the way, we also have to,
all right, because all of us here are in the
entertainment business. That's the business all right, Things get edited
to look a certain way. There's people that are out
there spewing things all the time, filling content, content content.
This was very Juicyan actress. The Mexican thank you, thank you,
(25:23):
the drug lord. Yes, Mexican government is the perfect story
to lure everybody. And this was a perfect distraction when
everything happened to Kate. Something that I learned is how
how when you're an artist, you have you apparently you
think you have so many friends, but when you're in
deep water, that's when you see how many people open
up savinging h And it was so few people. To
(25:46):
see Kate devastated and going through such a hard time,
that's something that really devastated me. So what did it
mean for you to have Jessica by your side? My god,
my life would have been completely different. It would be
so lonely without her, without her, without her mom, without
her friendship. And that's what's beautiful of our friendship. There's
(26:08):
nothing tying us, only the love that the trust that
we have in each other, that we don't judge each other.
And because you guys call me last night mate, oh yeah,
that that too. And by the way, one friend, that's
what you need. You need to have at least one
friend that you can trust above all else. At your
(26:29):
worst moment, did you feel that you would not be
able to come back from it? Absolutely? I thought I
was by myself. I thought I had the world against me,
because now I was fighting with everybody, with the American government,
with the Mexican government, with probably a cartel, with with
my my own sister, sometimes with my friends. How did
(26:49):
you bring her this light? How that she needed? Kid
is resilient. I think she's as strong as woman that
I know. You know, for me as a spectator, was impressive,
and I've always told her I've never met such a
strong woman like herself. Like Kate. She put herself back together.
I had to do it, and I am so sorry
for what she went through. I wish I would take
(27:11):
that back. I would take everything that my parents went through,
my other friends, everybody, and and bring it out on me.
I know I can handle it. I think you had enough. Though.
Everyone that's watching you know that we have only good
intentions for all of you. We share our difficult stories,
like Kate that has bared her soul for us here
honestly because we want you to realize that we're all
(27:33):
the same and we're going through same things each in
our own world, but we're all going through it, and
we hope that we've got people that go through it
with us, and we're thankful for those people, and we're
thankful for you. Here's the strong women, best friends and
a great shout of Takilaea. Yeah, yeah, this is water.
(27:55):
I'm going to be disappointed to be too. Strong women,
quick smooth. Isn't it good? That is some damn good
tequila girl. Hey r t T. Stefens Familia. Join our
(28:18):
Red Table Talk via Stepan's group on Facebook to become
a part of the conversation, and be sure to follow
the show page to catch up on all of our episodes.
You got balls on your girl? Anybody else you tell
that story too? They are not gonna go hipo. By
the way, that's a whole movie. Even has sex with
the right star. Mom. Maybe you could play tap I
(28:40):
could I've been troubles taller than me. Thanks for listening.
To join the Red Table Talk family and become a
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forward slash red Table Talk is Stefan's Red Table Talk
via Stepan is a production of Westbrook Studios in partnership
(29:03):
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Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Bien venidos Me and Gloria Stefan. Here you are listening
to Red Table Talk via Stephens Podcast. All your favorite
episodes from our Facebook watch show in audio on this
red tabletop via Stephens. Kate de Castillo is a popular
(00:20):
international superstar. Off screen, her troubles with high profile men
are notorious. A violent marriage. I never told anybody he
was taking me and strangling me. Ties to the dangerous
drug lord El Chapel, and Chapel himself takes you to
(00:40):
the room where you were going to sleep that night.
My legs were shaking eye and was going to be
great or killed? A relationship with Sean Penn. How did
you feel with that betrayal? He planned everything, even getting
in my bed. How she nearly lost it all? It
was me trying to survive and is fighting her way
(01:02):
back at your worst moment, did you feel that you
would not be able to come back from it? Whens
In is septing and this guy. Everybody knows that it's
Cosmo time, Cosmal time, all right, And I thought that
before we hit the Red Table today we would have
(01:23):
a little cocktail to toast one of the coolest women
we know, A good friend and also like a Badassis.
She got involved with her chappo in a very interesting story,
a chaplesman. You'll hear who he is. If you don't
know already, we're gonna talk about it. He done right
(01:48):
on time through. I'm so happy here. I'm very happy
to be here. Thank you for coming to the table.
It's a place of vulnerability and truth. We all know
(02:11):
that you are a strong woman and but honestly, I
wish I could be later another suit like you, a
suit the Miami. What do you feel that people don't
really understand about you? Well, um, that I'm not. People
think that I'm that tough, and yes, I'm a tough woman,
but I'm very vulnerable that I come from a very
(02:33):
you know, very conservative My dad was going to be
a priest, ended up being an actor. As a good
Mexican girl, I lived with my parents and I got married.
You had a beautiful way wedding forever. I mean, we thought,
oh my god, this is great. She married a football player,
(02:55):
and then you're not happy later out of the blue domestic.
It was a violent marriage. It was a very bad marriage.
In two thousand one, Kate Decastillo married the man of
her dreams soccer player Luise get A Sea Apple Stiegel,
but the honeymoon fairy tale quickly turned into a nightmare.
(03:17):
Kid says what started as emotional abuse quickly escalated, turning physical,
and after a year and a half of living in fear,
Kate found the courage to leave and filed for divorce.
It was a public records and everybody knew about what happened,
so it was not only embarrassing in a way, and
(03:37):
you're hurting, you know, because you're divorcing. All the eyes
on you and why you are happened this happened. It's
like they're like, well, it's because you liked it or well,
it's like we don't. Sometimes they didn't believe me, and
I'm like, oh my god, it's like really because I
never told anybody. I was just like kidnapped in my house. Literally,
(04:00):
he didn't let me go out nothing, and and he
didn't want me to work, which, by the way, it's
kind of like the typical Latin male thing I'm going
to take care of. Oh yes, not all of them,
because I've got a great Hispanic man too, but generally
the machista situation that happens a lot did you get
any clues before you marry him that you ignore what
I would be happy to say, No, I didn't. But
(04:22):
now I totally understand how stupid I was and how
in love I was, So it's not stupid. It's actually
I tell my kids all the time, love is a drug.
I think that at the beginning of a relationship, you're clouded,
Your senses are clouded. You make excuses for things because
a woman who's married forty three years but not why
(04:43):
do you think I was with your dad three years
before we got married. Take your time, people, take your time.
Remember my three year rules. Nobody can hide for three years.
Just waited out. What's the rush? You know? There's no rush. Listen.
My dad told and this is the Spanish, so say
i'm an no cannot be all and you can only
(05:04):
apply it to women, you know. And it's true. He
didn't because he was very funny, very likable, charming, like
like really charming, and then he would cry his eyes out,
you know, guilt and embrace me and the rodigas on
his knees like please forgive me, from give me and
I need help. You let it slide. I let it.
(05:24):
I was so in love different person. I wanted it
to work so hard. I tried everything I could. I
knew what probably since we were in our honeymoon and
cry my eyes out and I just waited for him
to fall asleep and then I will go out and
just cry. And I was like, what did I do?
He was a different man. I was afraid, literally of
the guy. I remember being asleep or not asleep, but
(05:47):
faking it, baking it. When I hear it was coming
in the keys, my heart started. I'm looking at you,
and I can't believe that Kate and Castino was ever afraid? Man?
How did you finally get out? He went to Japan
to the World Cup. When he left, I saw my
face in the mirrorge I saw myself so ugly. I
(06:08):
was like, I didn't recognize myself in the mirror. I said,
no more. Not one day more. His parents called me, okay,
had you heard it from Reis No? And I'm like,
uh no, and actually I need to talk to you guys.
Remember at Christmas time that he was like scratched all
over his face and they were like yeah, yeah, yeah,
(06:28):
Well he didn't fail, as he said, it was me
because he was kicking me. And strangling me. So it
was me trying to survive. So I'm telling you this
because I'm living. Did they try to stop you from
doing that? Oh? No, then they knew problem. No, no,
because you know sometimes parents we have no control over
(06:51):
our kids behavior. At least that you know, you had
their supporting, they understood. Yeah, you know what, And it's
tough for women out there because you are a strong woman,
and you have gusos, you have resources, you have a career,
you have something that you could do that imagine, as
we all know, a woman that is now has children
that the man is so bred window were they're afraid
(07:13):
they'll hurt the children. So now we have a lot
more things for women available. But still to make that
leaps a difficult decision. And you say that you fix
yourself because you went on a few years later and
you get married again. To be honest, it was really
stupid of me, irresponsible, because I knew it was not
gonna work. Aaron, who was much younger than me, fun everything,
(07:35):
you know, when on motorcycles we would go hiking, We
did amazing things that I love to do and I
couldn't do before. And we started kind of living together
and don't that. And my parents hated it because they're
conservative and they're like, you, Mary, get married. Do you
feel safe for him, Yes, very very much so in
in that way. Yes he was a good guy. Yes
he's a good guy. But you were on the rebound.
(07:57):
Don't ever be married the go. Be careful with the rebounds.
Sometimes you said, Okay, this didn't work. Maybe if I
jump right into this. Noo, NOI see. But you know
it was fun and it was nothing like the other
It was nice and beautiful, but you know, I just
didn't I was not in love, to be honest, for
(08:21):
you to sit here and say, you know what, Honestly,
I was this and I wasn't thinking that a lot
of people won't even get to that point of accountability.
Sometimes people criticize me because I've been married twice, because
I have no kids. So I just want to tell
the people that it's because I wanted to your choice.
I'm it's my choice. Sometimes people don't have a choice.
(08:41):
I'm living the life that I wanted to live my life,
not anybody else. Okay, beautiful and then you mean chapel.
Everything stirs with a tweet In two thousand twelves they
call it the Chapel tweet or whatever it was not
to Chapel. Was not directed to a Chapel at all.
It was a heart, open heart manifesto that was saying
about what I believe in and what I don't believe.
(09:03):
And I said, I believe more in someone like a
Chapel that you at least know straightforward who he is
than all the criminals that are in our government. Upset
with corruption in the Mexican government, Kate shared her views
on Twitter, but this line changed her life today. I
believe more in a Chapel Gusman than in the governments
(09:24):
that hide truths from me. It unintentionally gave it Chapel
a call to action and would result in keep becoming
the only person that Guzman trusted with his life story.
My life changed, and I'm like, what did I And
everybody was you have to delete the tweets? You have
to and there like I'm not dealing what we did
(09:45):
again in again, like there's not one word here that
I don't believe in. Why would I delete that? No, everybody, everybody,
I was like, casa away, no way, oh no, this
is the first time I bring out my gabble here
bod okay, so you posted to me what happens? How
did you get connected with their chapel? His lawyers uh
(10:07):
called my parents house. They never said who they were,
of course, and my mom is like, oh, they're calling
you for a big movie, Hollywood movie. At the end
they told me, because we're in hiding right now, we
are Mr Guzman's uh lawyers. But he was, he was
in jail by then. He wasn't prisoned, of course, because
all of a sudden the filmmaker and you is going
absolutely to a producer. I'm of course, and the guy
(10:32):
is giving it to me. So I was like, oh
my god, I'm interested, like right now. So I jumped
in the plane. My heart starts like what are you doing? Kate?
So every ware wait, are you alone? Alone? Alone? Alone?
Nobody knew, not my parents, of course nobody. So I
started feeling something and I take the picture of the
(10:53):
tail of the claim and I sent it to my
best friend Jessica, and I just say, just make sure
I come back tonight. If you don't hear from me,
track this play you know, I and and and please
don't ask me any questions. They get to Luca see
two guys in their suits and they're waiting there for me,
and we went to have lunch and they're saying, well,
(11:13):
the guy wants to give you the rights of his
story life. And I'm like, okay, that's great, but just
so you know, I'm gonna tell the truth, not his
fairy tale story. And he's like, that's exactly why he
picked you, because he knows you're straightforward, you don't lie.
He also thinks, Mendoza fall in love, you fall in
love with the character. Is how the hell that Sean
(11:38):
Penn get up in this smith. After her secret meeting,
Kate was one step closer to producing a film about
his Chapel's life. She caught the attention of a pair
of a list Hollywood producers who vowed to help her
get it made. By the time they told her Sean
Penn was interested, Kate was eager to bring more credibility
to the project. She had fear the film was in
(12:00):
jeopardy since Chapel had escaped from prison and was on
the run. So he escapes. I'm like, well, now we
have nothing, and and the producer was like, no, it
just got better. Our story just got better. He escaped
because he wanted to meet you. What happened start the tunnel? Now,
(12:22):
well that's that's what he started that tunnel right after
your tweet. Yeah, So so everything set up and then
I met Sean and he's like, so is he Why
did you have come? We should meet with him? And
they're like that serious and they're like, let's do this.
So I tell yes, and I'm bringing three friends who
are the producer and Champainn. The lawyers is like, can
(12:43):
you tell me who Champainn is? And like like, well,
he's a big actually just google him. It's like, okay,
I'm gonna google for asking me who is Champainn? And
I rented a private plane? You rented I did? I
hope I got money back. I was about to say
you chappo if you're listening to her, but for the plane,
you cannot take anyone. I can't take it. So no
(13:05):
one pays for this plane, only you. It's your project.
Did you know where you landed? We went from Van
Nice to Guada airport and then they picked us up.
So at what point did you meet after? How? I
don't know how many hours? We were so tired, but
Chapel opened the door for me, and I didn't recognize it.
(13:26):
I've never seen him, right, I've seen pictures of him
what he was young, so I don't know how he
looks like. And I knew he wasn't because I heard
because of his boys and because he told me amiga
and he called me amiga right away. So right away,
what was happening with Sean Paim at this point? Was
it with you? Well? Yeah, I was shown by that moment.
I just met him a week before and we're all
(13:46):
on the same page. We start talking and then sound
and he's like just right next to me. He was
sitting right here, and he's like with a big, huge smile,
looking at me, but staring at me, and so we'll
talk and he was like, oh, so this is I
thought it was showing us in front of us. Yes.
(14:09):
Suddenly Sean starts saying, tell him that I want to
interview him for for what was the name Rolling So magazine?
And I was just like, wait, this was not on
the script. So he has you there? He asked you there. Yes,
he threw you under the bus there. I cannot do
a face because he's going to notice that something's wrong.
You'll pick up on it. And this guy is gonna
(14:29):
be dead and just a blink of right. Okay, so
that was you were blindsided by that, obviously, but also
I'm sure it was how are you supposed to say no?
How do you maneuver that situation? He's not going to
say no because he loves that you're there, and you
came all that way with him, and he just probably
didn't want to make you look bad either. Yeah, it's
truly interesting that I'm liking a chapel way more than
(14:49):
jump at all. Right, So the wholy interviews through when
we went back, and that was my nightmare started there. Okay,
but before you went back, and Chapo himself takes you
to the room where you were going to sleep that night,
He said, Miga, I think you have to go to sleep.
We didn't even know that we were going to stay there.
(15:10):
I thought it was I was going to be raped
and definitely killed or something like you know what he
could have done? Whatever the hell he was, What can
I do? He's not gonna kill you? Yeah, right, he
grabbed me like I grabbed my grandmother exactly. Well, Miga,
you're not gonna see me again. And I'm like, because
I'm taking off right now, and I'm like, okay, okay, um,
(15:32):
you know what, thinking about the movie, what if don't
fuck in if we donate some money when we do
the movie for all the people that have lost people
because of the 're gonna spine And I was like,
I was like, oh, he kills me or something. But
it was my only opportunity. He has a huge eyes
(15:53):
and very powerful and he stares at me and he's like,
that's why I like you. Let's do that. We hugged.
We hugged, and he's like, I'm off. He left a night. Really,
I was crawling to the fed my my legs were shaking.
I couldn't believe it, and I crushed. I didn't take
nothing off. I just passed. And then probably an hour
(16:15):
later and we're and I see Sean and I see
that they were there, right everyone. So we had to
leave like really fast because somebody was coming and they
knew something happened. And literally almost twenty four hours after
we left, the military came in and started shooting. Oh
my day. Yes, Champagne mentioned at checkpoint, so it wasn't true.
(16:40):
He just put it there to sparkle a little bit.
His stupid story. There was never a checkpoint. I hated
him for that, but that's why his His article was
full of what was supposed to be a discreet meeting
for Sean and Kate turned into an international scandal. A
few weeks after their meeting with the drug lord, the
Mexican government captured the kingpin and claimed tracking Kate's visit
(17:04):
was essential to the mission. Rolling Stone then published Sean
Penn's article, and El Chapel's first ever public interview took
the world by storm. To Kate's dismay, Sean had changed
and embellished the story, leaving her feeling betrayed and fooled
for facilitating and translating the interview. When the story came out,
(17:29):
I never I never talked to him again. One time
when I was solely destroyed, and I said, I'm going
to write to processor magazine, which I did. I told
the truth, okay, but they understand that we are seeing
the scandal all over. They would trustally bey single day
for months, for months, and one day someone asked you
(17:50):
were you having something with Sean Penn? And you said, well,
but that at the point did you start a lot
of relationship with Sean Payne, Because then that complicated through
us on the plane back, only the both of us,
and we were so excited. I had a champagne bottle.
It's like, oh, you did it and we are alive.
(18:12):
So um. So we celebrated, both of us and there
was something there. How did you celebrate? Oh you just
opened the owner. Not not like that. But let me
do you know the media they asked me if I
had something romantic, if I had a relationship, and I no,
(18:32):
I only had sex like it just happened. Had I
been a man, Oh yeah, then it would be viewed
like oh yeah, you know, like that's so fantastic. Okay,
But he threw her under the bus. Not only that,
but he used me as a bait. That's not cool.
And then he never protected me and reached my life
and my parents life, and my sister's life and everybody
(18:55):
surrounding me. So he ked you in every way possible.
The bottom she was really China, like China, hold it in, yes,
or what hurt you the most? Because this was I
mean it hurt me that I was so stupid and
so naive and so stupid that you can see the
whole thing. If I didn't have the American passport. I
(19:16):
would be in jail. That's that's bad easy. Out of
the four people who visited a Chapel, only Kate was
being investigated in Mexico for obstruction of justice and money
laundering crimes that could send her to prison for fifteen years.
Sean Penn and the two producers had secretly struck a
deal with Rolling Stone. They agreed to meet with El
(19:37):
Chapo as press on an official assignment, legally protecting the
three of them under journalism laws. As the Mexican government
reeled with the ridicule that someone else had gotten too
a chapel, first, they set up Kate as Chapel's lover
and accomplice. Kate had to flee her own country and
leave her work, life and family behind to avoid persecution.
(20:03):
They was saying, why didn't you tell the police where
you were or that you you know like, because then
you can get murderers. I don't want to get killed.
Second of all, that's not my job and an actress,
it's your job, Mexican government, to know where he is,
not mine. Second of all, I didn't see him commit
any crime. I didn't see him kill anybody. I didn't
see even nothing. And I have no idea what it
(20:29):
was crazy if I understanding that you almost went broke
paying lawyers. I have no savings, yes, because I've been
and I've been working and don't lad rain. Now I'm done,
Ingo Bernard. Everything has gone to paying lawyers and still
paying the Mexican government. I'm sorry, I don't mean to interrupt,
but I bet you a lot of it had to
do with the fact that they felt that here they
(20:51):
are on this man hunt supposedly for a chapel, and
you get an interview and you see him and whatnot.
So they may have felt food that we're punishing you
from That's exactly what happened that I think that's part
of what happened, is like how this actress out of
the blue just met with him and the Mexican government
can't find it. Of course, they always knew where he was.
(21:11):
Did you have any personal um repercussions like anxiety, like oh,
I still do. I still do, and I and I
have a gun. I got a gun and I sleep
with my gun next to me. The thing is that
I hope took the C C, I A and the
I R S and they told me that I had
a direct threat from the cartel, and I went but
(21:33):
listed I was. I started getting so mad. They told
me you you should, you should leave your house. Everybody
knows who you where you live. And I was like, well,
guess what, I'm not leaving if they're gonna they're gonna
kill me here in my house because because my own place,
so don't come and threaten me. Everybody here knows that
if something happens to me or my family, it's not
in it's going to be the Mexican government. But I
(21:54):
cannot talk about my help. My parents went through worse.
Papa is all over their house in the process. You
hurt people you love, do you feel I well, of
course I would take back that. My parents and my
my family and my all my friends were you know, scrutinized,
and they were. It was terrible. And then my phone
(22:15):
after three minutes only when I talked with my parents
and with my lawyers one minute and a half, and
I can hear that someone what was there three minutes
they cut my They didn't even let me talk to
my parents. That they were going through a health more
more worse than me. My dad would call me crying.
My parents, It's like, please go out and defend yourself
(22:35):
because I was silent for a long time. But when
you spoke, you spoke. I mean, you get a documentary
on it. People who glorious, just denying every single thing
they said. And my parents wanted me to do it
and I and they couldn't do it, and they were
so hurt saying that I was literally that's exactly what
they were saying, and that I had business with him,
(22:56):
and that I was laundering money. Your parents, everything that
you've done in your care year for so many years,
it's trashed in like this now. Your parents weren't saying
that the personal friends were. My parents never even asked
me anything. They never judged me. My real friends that
are still my real friends, never ever even asked me nothing.
(23:22):
There was someone next to you that helped you, and
that's your best friend. I always say, she is a
woman's woman, a girl's girl. She's very special. She worked
with us in a faca for a long time and
I want her to come to the table. Welcome. Jessica
mal Donado. Emmy Award winning TV host and journalists Jessica
(23:47):
Maldonado bravely supported her lifelong friend Kate Castillo to the
point of risking her own life to be a trusted confidante.
Jessica was my best reporter from l A ever. This
lady here stoic first, never judge me, never asked me why,
or or said I know she was going through hell.
(24:11):
The I r S. Everybody was on top of her.
Everybody all of us got oh yeah, so you only
big time. But she knows you what do you you
know her? Well? What is her superpower? Her superpower is
that she's a very resilient woman. Like muchas Latinos. I
think that that's something a trademark that Latina women have
(24:33):
come back. We we you know, it's like you have
to put us in boiling water to see how we
come up. There's a camon meal ty, but we always
rise above. So that's why I thought it was so
unfair when I would see that, they would say that, oh,
she's probably having sex with their chop boy. Go first
of all, you know he's a married man. She's a
famous sexy woman that he and that's exactly might have
(24:57):
to be sex. By the way, we also have to,
all right, because all of us here are in the
entertainment business. That's the business all right, Things get edited
to look a certain way. There's people that are out
there spewing things all the time, filling content, content content.
This was very Juicyan actress. The Mexican thank you, thank you,
(25:23):
the drug lord. Yes, Mexican government is the perfect story
to lure everybody. And this was a perfect distraction when
everything happened to Kate. Something that I learned is how
how when you're an artist, you have you apparently you
think you have so many friends, but when you're in
deep water, that's when you see how many people open
up savinging h And it was so few people. To
(25:46):
see Kate devastated and going through such a hard time,
that's something that really devastated me. So what did it
mean for you to have Jessica by your side? My god,
my life would have been completely different. It would be
so lonely without her, without her, without her mom, without
her friendship. And that's what's beautiful of our friendship. There's
(26:08):
nothing tying us, only the love that the trust that
we have in each other, that we don't judge each other.
And because you guys call me last night mate, oh yeah,
that that too. And by the way, one friend, that's
what you need. You need to have at least one
friend that you can trust above all else. At your
(26:29):
worst moment, did you feel that you would not be
able to come back from it? Absolutely? I thought I
was by myself. I thought I had the world against me,
because now I was fighting with everybody, with the American government,
with the Mexican government, with probably a cartel, with with
my my own sister, sometimes with my friends. How did
(26:49):
you bring her this light? How that she needed? Kid
is resilient. I think she's as strong as woman that
I know. You know, for me as a spectator, was impressive,
and I've always told her I've never met such a
strong woman like herself. Like Kate. She put herself back together.
I had to do it, and I am so sorry
for what she went through. I wish I would take
(27:11):
that back. I would take everything that my parents went through,
my other friends, everybody, and and bring it out on me.
I know I can handle it. I think you had enough. Though.
Everyone that's watching you know that we have only good
intentions for all of you. We share our difficult stories,
like Kate that has bared her soul for us here
honestly because we want you to realize that we're all
(27:33):
the same and we're going through same things each in
our own world, but we're all going through it, and
we hope that we've got people that go through it
with us, and we're thankful for those people, and we're
thankful for you. Here's the strong women, best friends and
a great shout of Takilaea. Yeah, yeah, this is water.
(27:55):
I'm going to be disappointed to be too. Strong women,
quick smooth. Isn't it good? That is some damn good
tequila girl. Hey r t T. Stefens Familia. Join our
(28:18):
Red Table Talk via Stepan's group on Facebook to become
a part of the conversation, and be sure to follow
the show page to catch up on all of our episodes.
You got balls on your girl? Anybody else you tell
that story too? They are not gonna go hipo. By
the way, that's a whole movie. Even has sex with
the right star. Mom. Maybe you could play tap I
(28:40):
could I've been troubles taller than me. Thanks for listening.
To join the Red Table Talk family and become a
part of the conversation, follow us at Facebook dot com,
forward slash red Table Talk is Stefan's Red Table Talk
via Stepan is a production of Westbrook Studios in partnership
(29:03):
with I Heart Radio's Michael Tura podcast Network. For more
podcasts from my heart, visit the I heart Radio app,
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