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July 17, 2025 50 mins

Daniel Alvarenga is the leading Journalist covering the Salvadoran-American experience, host of the brilliant HUMO podcast, and is my dear friend. In this conversation we have a deep dive into the Salvadoran-U.S. policies affecting Latinos as the ICE raids ramp up and what it means to "drink the kool aid."

 

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Episode Transcript

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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Your mast. So this episode cause not put on your seatbelts.
Today we are getting into what's going on in Central America. Heart, Okay,

(00:26):
I'm sitting down Grana, my friend and more importantly Americano
journalist whose voice does not shake when it comes to
talking about the bu regime and or his dictatorship, the
control of the diaspora, and the present pipeline connecta. And

(00:50):
this is make It's about breakdown what they don't want
us to know. So Weather Brown, so the Beverly Hills mehand,

(01:25):
I'm super honored to be speaking with a good friend
of mine, fellow colleague Daniel Alarenga, who, in my opinion,
is the expert in regards to the coverage of and
the understanding of his dictatorship and the pipeline between the
United States. And Daniel, thank you so much for joining me.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
I'm so happy to be here. You know, we go
way back. We work together in other networks, and it's
just great that you know, you can share this platform
with me and that we can talk about real things.

Speaker 1 (01:54):
Yes, real things. I'm so relieved. I'm so excited because
there's too much going on in the world to be
like worried about superficial shit. So honestly, thank you for
sticking to your guns, you know, like for applying pressure
for all these years. I think, of course you are

(02:14):
covering an entire dictatorship. I am covering Nadon and trying
to pull it into politics. But one thing that I
feel like we have in parallel is that we have
very strong opinions and sometimes you know, it can come
off really spicy, as honest and realized it is and
it's far ahead of its time in many circumstances, and

(02:37):
people aren't ready to receive them, but it doesn't make
it any less true. And above all, like the universe
has a way of circling back and you know, just
pretty much making it known to the world, like, yes,
this has been said for these reasons. And just because
you you know, an audience may not have been ready

(02:57):
at one point in time, does not mean that it
may not, okay, ripple effects into the future. So super
happy and excited to speak with someone who gets it
and parallel sort of circumstance, and I'm just super excited.

Speaker 3 (03:10):
To hear from you.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
Yeah, yeah, So let's get into it.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
Absolutely, Daniel, first and foremost, I know very well who
you are. But for those who are listening getting to
know you for the very first time, who are you?
Who is to tell the people a little bit more
about yourself.

Speaker 2 (03:26):
I'm Daniel Alvarenga. I was I'm a Salvadoran American. I
am from southern California currently living in Washington, d C.
LA and DC are like the epicenters for Salvadoran diaspora,
the biggest ones. And I've worked at Al Jazeera, AJ plus,
te Lemundo, i have bylines en Rolling Stone, Washington Post,

(03:48):
and a lot of my work deals with like El
Salvador's culture and politics, but also from a diaspora lens,
because there are a lot of people don't know that
people from are the third largest Latino group in the
United States two point five million of US according to
the p Hispanic Center. But you know, we haven't really
entered a lot of discourse except for like negative things,

(04:10):
whether it is gangs or now whether it is you know,
Elsava or being an immigration prison and a dictatorship, which
is controversial. So you know, I'm always just you know,
trying to crawl crawl in Sydney spaces and and you know,
tell people about the reality of Salvadorans, because you know,

(04:32):
we came here during the war, we've dealt with essentially
a gang war, and now we're in this new dictatorship era,
and it's influencing Latin America. It's influencing other Latinos. This
small country who has always had a chip on its
shoulder and had not a lot of representation, it's finally
making its mark in the world with Bugele and Bugeli's

(04:53):
policies and mass incarceration. And it's just like a lot
of people have been cheerleading this, but the reality starting
to set in. You know, we heard about kill mar
Arrigo and a bunch of immigrants from Venezuela as well,
who were sent to quote the prison and Old Salvador
unconstitutionally without due process, violating human rights. It's become like

(05:17):
a national topic. And the last time Elsavador was a
national topic was the last from era when you know,
he called people from Central America bad ombas. And so,
you know, we're always caught in these like negative news cycles,
but there's so much nuances to being that like gets

(05:38):
kind of lost in the mainstream.

Speaker 1 (05:40):
I appreciate that so much, and oh my goodness, there's
so much to get into. I you know, the primary
audience for the show are US Latinos, and what I
have discovered is that there's just so much ignorance in
regards to what's going on. You know, there's a lot
of people I have oh my god, since Trump was
a since he was president elect. I can't count the

(06:03):
number of conversations I have had where I'm explaining, specifically
to Amcianos to the elderly, that this is not a
subject of criminality, right, because a lot of people are like, oh,
but they're just supporting criminals, right, And I'm like, this
has nothing to do with criminality. I have found that
a lot of people actually don't know that slavery is

(06:25):
technically legal in the United States as long as you
are deemed a criminal per the thirteenth Amendment, and that
you know, all of this have parallels, and that this
sort of super superiority that a lot of Latinos can
have on some that's not my problems. I am Panama

(06:47):
and Jamaican for those who are listening, and you know
a lot of people can say, well, es Panama isn't
Central America, you know what I mean? And we are
also part of the Caribbean. We're in everybody's business.

Speaker 2 (07:00):
We are also Caribbean South America.

Speaker 1 (07:02):
Yes, and we're also at the you know, Latino on
the larger scale. And my point is that there are
parallels in realities and intersections that affect many people in
different ways. So I'm super happy with how you introduce
this and yourself, because yes, I bet a lot of
people eyebrows have been raised by the fact that Savadorans

(07:24):
are the third largest group. I'll be honest, I didn't
know that until I've been familiar with your work, and
so to get to an actual question here, part of
the reason why there's so much influence from Insavada to
other countries is because of Bugel's growing popularity. Can you
speak to me a bit about that, because I mean,

(07:45):
he's branding himself as the cold Dictator, but what the
fuck does that even mean? Bro?

Speaker 2 (07:50):
Every time I meet a Latino out in the world,
whether it is even in Latin America, but I'm just
talking about the US. When I meet other Latinos from Venezuela,
from my lab, from Dominican Republic, I tell them, oh,
I'm from Minsavlod, my my family's from sa blore and
usually like it's like you know that, it's always like
oh okay, cool, But like in the last couple of years,

(08:11):
it's been like, oh my god, you're president. He's really
doing things. He's lifting the country up. I want to
naive Buchele in my country, and I'm just like, be
careful what you wish for. And you know, people looked
at me crazy, and now they're just like, oh, oh,
he can send me that. Now I can be sent
to Bugela's jails. Now my opinion on Bukela is changing,

(08:32):
and it's like yes, like welcome to the reality. Buckle
sells this image. He he sells this image. He has
a lot of propaganda. He puts in a lot of
money in, you know, propaganda that makes the country look
good to court tourists. You know, he proposed a bitcoin
law and so now we have all these like sort
of bitcoiners who are like gentrifying nol Salvador. And that's

(08:57):
who he's making the country for, Like he's making hospitable
for people like that. Every day Salvadoran is still struggling.
And yes, there's more safety in Olsavador because a lot
of gangs have been sort of put to you know,
put in jail. But like it's also had disastrous consequences
for human rights because the majority of people in those

(09:18):
jails are not in gangs. They've just been kind of
caught up in sweeps. There's like eighty thousand people in
Bugela's jails who have not had due process. They've been
accused of being gang members, but they have not gone
through any court. They have not you know, shown proof
or anything. They've just been in jail, some people up
to three years. This is information from an organization instead

(09:42):
of a what called what is it, let's see, it
is Socorro Horiico Manitarium. And they've also reported that over
four hundred people have died in these prisons without due
process waiting for a court date. So that's what's been reported.
Elsavador's government is not transparent. Organizations like that organization and

(10:05):
an organization named Cristosal have said that the death tolls
in the jails is likely higher than a thousand, which
is just unacceptable. Like, you know, if you're going to
go to jail, at least have a legal process for people.
Don't just take them off the streets and then like
put them in jail. For an unlimited amount of time
until they start dying. And that's why you start getting

(10:28):
these comments of like, well, this is a concentration camp,
like you know, and there's been a lot of speculation
about that and it's not unfounded. And I know it
sounds wild to people who have only heard the beautiful
things about Bukele, but you know those tiktoks, those glossy
tiktoks that are like overproduced that Bukela shares about, that's

(10:51):
just that's just umo. It's just smoke and mirrors. It's
like it's a and that uma was finally starting to
dissipate and we're starting to see like, oh, these are
actually human rights violations. And it took him, you know,
collaborating with Trump for a lot of people to see that.
And if you're if you're in the United States, it's
gonna also like we're not getting these tourism dollars anymore. So,

(11:11):
you know, it's a whole lot is happening right now,
and people are finally starting to pay attention to Bule
and his problems. But like Bugele is in his sixth year,
he's had an inconstitutional re election, and it's it's interesting
to me that there wasn't a big outcry for any
of that up until he started kidnapping non Salvadorans. But

(11:34):
you know, if Venezuela did this, there would have been outcry,
and there has been outcry. But Naipogel can violate the constitution,
pass the same type of laws that like the government
in Venezuela does. But like, you don't hear a peep
from people. If anything, you hear like good for El Salvador,
and it's just like, Okay, they're they're following the same

(11:55):
dictatorship sort of model that other countries have done. He's
not doing anything new or special.

Speaker 1 (12:02):
What are your thoughts on him calling himself the cool
one though, because that, to me it's like crazy on
top of the fact that I think I just saw,
if not this morning, just yesterday, that he was like,
you know, trying to k execando dictator and it's.

Speaker 2 (12:20):
Like, no, he said the opposite. He said the opposite.
So he gave a speech recently to commemorate like the
first year of his second term, which is an unconstitutional term.
President says the vote cannot be re elected consecutively, but
he did not care, and he did it and he
was sort of giving like kind of like a Stavi
of the Union speech after a year on constitution in office,

(12:42):
and he was talking about all the things from his
six years, and he actually what he actually said, He
is like, I don't care if you call me dictator.
He doesn't care. And obviously the international criticism is starting
to get to him because he's addressing it. Before he
could have just ignored this and just you know, kept
his absolute power, but like you know, it's starting to
chip away at him and you're starting to see it.

(13:02):
But he actually said he doesn't care. And he's always
played around with like I'm a cool dictator in his
Twitter pro and his Twitter profile and his bio. And
the whole cool part is that I think he's lame.
I think about Apel's lame. I think he's a dork.
I think he has no swag, nothing like. But you know,
he would put on a baseball cap, he would put

(13:25):
on yeah, he would put on a baseball cap. He
would wear colorful socks. So he's always had this image
of I'm the cool dictator, not the cool I'm the
cool politician. He came to power like at like thirty seven,
thirty eight to forty, so like, relatively he's young in
politician years, but he's always like kind of put this

(13:45):
image that he's cooler than he actually is. And like
when he was he was mayor of the capital of Ntan,
and he he would do Pokemon go events with his
like backwards cap and he wear leather jackets. So like
it's very like, how do you how do you do?
Fellow kids, And it's just like like, you know, I
always found at Corny. A lot of us always found

(14:07):
at Corny, but like, you know, he's he's going for
the lowest common denominator and he is like, you know,
he's he was very convincing to a sector of society,
especially like let's say elders, and you know, he built
himself as like I'm new, I'm different, I'm young, and
I'm hip. And it's just like I don't need a
president who's cool, young and hip. I need one who
is going to not make life worse.

Speaker 1 (14:29):
Oh. I hate to break it up right here, but
we'll be right back with after these messages. A lot

(15:25):
of people are unaware of the fact that prisons, a
lot of them, can be for profit, and that the
pipeline specifically between the United States and then Salvador. There's
a lot of money that's being made per body that's
in these institutions. Can we speak a little bit more

(15:47):
to that, because I mean the number of the amount
of ignorance, you know, like I feel like I was
in my lam with Chatanna. I just don't know even
anymore what to call it, you know, like the amount
of ignorance amongst like Latinos and like mass incarcelation, because
it's like to see it as a good thing, you know,

(16:09):
it's really yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:11):
So you know, El Salvador has always had let's say,
involvement from the US and the problem of like mass incarceration,
and Al Savador is like a daughter of the mass
incarceration in the United States, like the whole model, even
like even the even the Sicult prison, like Elsavador didn't
have facilities like that in the past. That Siicult prison

(16:33):
is modeled after facilities in the United States, like like
it's modeled like prisons, like higher maximum security prisons. It's
modeled like a lot of ice attention centers. I wouldn't
be surprised if they're using some of the same contractors.
I'd have to verify that, but not only that, but
like for years El Salvador used to get funds for

(16:53):
security and under under different administrations, under before Bocala's administration.
Like it's just like Trump didn't start ice. Trump didn't
start this whole system. You know, Passive administrations built this
infrastructure that now Trump is taking advantage of the same
thing with Bukeva. Passive administrations to deal with the gang issue,

(17:14):
invested a lot in policing, invested a lot in the military,
invested a lot in mass incarcerations. They invested more in
those things than they invested in schools, more in those things,
and they invested in healthcare. They invested more in those
things than they invested in just social safety programs. And
so you know, people have also been socially conditioned. You know,

(17:36):
you know people do Al Salvador. You know, whether you
think it's ignorance or not, they look up to the
United States. So if they see the US is locking
people up in a mass incarceration style, they're going to
be like, Okay, well, I guess that is the model
for US to follow, because that's a quote unquote successful country.
Whether we agree with it or not, a lot of
people think this way. And so a lot of times

(17:58):
when people ask me, like what can I do about
Al Salvador, It's like, you know, raise the issue, bring awareness,
But what's gonna have much more of an effect is
how do you deal with these issues in your community?
How do you deal with the issues of policing. You know,
right now, communities are standing up to ice. You know
that is ice is part of policing, whether we choose

(18:21):
to see it or not, because it only because you know,
we might feel more affected by, you know, one type
of police versus another. It's still part of all the
same thing. And you know El Salvador happened because of that.
You know, the reason that we had a gang problem
in Alsavador was because the United States created a bunch
of refugee children in our Civil war. These refugee children,

(18:44):
you know, they were some of them were child soldiers.
Some of them were child soldiers, and you know, when
they migrate to the United States, they naturally fell into
gangs because like they came into Reagan's America with no
social safety nets. So you know, thanks for again again, yeah,
and it always goes back to him, right, you know.

(19:04):
At the same time, you know, Bill Clinton expanded mass
deportations with a nineteen ninety six law called IIRA. So
these child soldiers and these like neglected youth, some of
them who were orphaned during the war had were combatants.
You know, they never got the care they needed psychologically, materially,
and so they kind of ended up in the system.

(19:26):
And then in the nineties the mass deportation criteria is
widen under Clinton. ARIRA. I always say it's like the
sister to the Crime Bill, which is around the same time.
Whereas you know, the Crime Bill had devastating effects here
in the United States. It increased mass incarceration, it has
affected a lot of communities, its historic families, and the
same thing with the immigration laws from that era. And

(19:48):
we never give Clinton that heat. You know, we focus
on Reagan, we focus on Bush, we focus on Trump.
But like Clinton era did not move things in the
right direction. And we have to be honest about some
of the these things. And so now we have this
problem where you know, we keep following the US's model
for things, and the USES model is going to be like,
you know, throw more money that prisons.

Speaker 1 (20:09):
It's just so devastating and where my you know, I
say this a lot where my brain goes to next,
but where my brain does go too next is one
thing that has stunned me, even before I really decided like, okay,
you know, there's a level of awareness I had already
because I'm a Central American and we're friends. But what
really shocked me. I first, guess where the images of

(20:33):
you know, it's like twenty people to one sell, and
you know, like people two reactions, right, people a justifying
should never been in again or people being like what
the actual fuck? Right?

Speaker 2 (20:46):
Those images are propaganda?

Speaker 1 (20:49):
Okay, please educate on those images are propaganda.

Speaker 2 (20:52):
Look, you know, we've constructed an image of the El
Salvador gangster. The Salvador in game, he like MS thirteen,
tattoos on the face, bat on brisk, most of the
people being being caught up, the young people, they don't
look like that. A lot of these, a lot of
these like hardened looking men with the tattoos on the face.

(21:16):
They haven't gang bang since like the two thousands. So
but it's a powerful image. And so you know, when
I was, when I was at a j plus, I
was like, hey, you know, we should be careful about
showing us images because like the government of El Salvador
wants us to see these images for a reason, and
people just you know whatever, people just eventually you couldn't

(21:36):
we couldn't like contain these images because they were everywhere.
But those are pr moves. Those were like carefully like
stage to look like that.

Speaker 1 (21:47):
So promote the idea of the justification of why this
is needed, so that people are like, well, these are
the people that are going in. They're not showing that
like the person that you mentioned before he was a hairdresser,
or like the yeah, or like the everyday type of
person unquote right, yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:04):
The type of people who are getting caught up like
they're like scrawny, like eighteen year old. Sometimes they don't
look like someone who you know is a hard and
criminal sometimes and it's like we shouldn't be going based
on looks, but like you know, sometimes it's like Senora
is like there's like older ladies that get caught up
in it, Like anyone is getting caught up in these jails,
and right now they're going after human rights defenders. So

(22:26):
there is Ruth Lopez, a director and human rights lawyer
from an organization called Cristosal, which has been documenting the
abuses of the Poet administration. She was put in jail.
There was no there was no reason for her. There
was no like she did a crime. She was put
in jail because she is challenging the narrative of a

(22:48):
type below and she's getting international tension for human rights.
They don't want that, so they put her in jail.
She's been in jail for like two weeks now. It's
new and there's been other land fenders who have gone
to jail too. She's like the most high profile case,
and I encourage people to read up on Ruth Lopez
and ol Salvador. She's a political prisoner and human rights lawyer.

(23:11):
But she is just one of many, one of many.
And you know, maybe in the early days they were
sweeping up criminals, but now they're not doing that anymore.
We're we're in like we're several years into the we
Get administration, and he's he's getting anyone that he doesn't
that he doesn't agree with. And sometimes people snitch on

(23:31):
each other people and be like, oh, you know, I
don't like that person. They have a gang ties, but
they don't verify if that's true, you know, and it's
almost feel it feels like they also have to like
fill quotas, quotas too, maybe because we see that in
the United States too, where they have to feel certain
quotas of arresting people. And you know, like I said,

(23:53):
if we're following the US's models, like what we see
in the US, we're gonna see in Olsavador, but probably
on a worse scale because there's less and balances on
the government there. You know, Trump is going wild, but
at least we have some institutions sort of hanging on there.
Has you know he fired Yeah, he complete control. He
fired the judges in the Supreme Court, his his cabinet

(24:15):
is in the legislature, so he can't be checked by
like a Congress, he can't be checked by like a
Supreme Court. Like all of it is under his control.
He has total control and that's why he's governing like that.

Speaker 1 (24:28):
Oh my god, Daniel is teaching me a lot right now.
This is very emotional. We'll be right back right after
these messages.

Speaker 3 (25:20):
Daniel, I have.

Speaker 1 (25:20):
To ask, are you you know you've been documenting this
for years, you know, and too much you know vitriol
sometimes because you know ahead of its time, you know,
like the information, the thea, the gist, but the strength

(25:41):
of which you push this forward, you know what I mean,
You're you're not presenting this as something that's delicate, because
it's not. You know, So you're you have presented this
in a way that is both intelligent and okay, uh necessary,
with the tone of which you've presented it. No, are
have you been fearful? Are you fearful?

Speaker 3 (26:02):
You know?

Speaker 1 (26:03):
Are things getting better? What is that like for you?

Speaker 2 (26:06):
So I am not going to a Salvador anytime soon.
You know, I have privileges in the sense that, like,
I'm not a Salvadoran citizen. I'm a US citizen. And
that's intentional because if I was a dual citizenship, if
I was a dual citizen, ol Salvador could do whatever
they wanted to be in their borders. And my mother
has to be the one that gives me citizenship. And

(26:28):
she's like, she's had two brothers during the war who
were this sake, let's call them freedom fighters, and they
were killed, and so she doesn't want to sacrifice anymore
of her you know, loved ones to the salvador and states.
So like, I don't have Salvador's citizenship, and that's a
conscious choice. A lot of people want, you know, that

(26:49):
dual citizenship because it like represents something to them. But
like you don't get any rights with the Salvadori citizenship
than you already have with the US citizenship. So and
the reason I mentioned that is because passed a new
law called a foreign agents law, this foreign agent law,
and this is according to the Human Rights Watch. I'm
not making this up. It's a far reaching law that

(27:12):
like lets you know, use broad powers to monitor, sanction
and dissolve organizations labeled as Ford agents. Not just organizations.
It also applies to people as well because of my
work and sometimes, you know, I work in the United States,
so I'm like funded by you know, things that aren't
in an old Salvador to do my journalism at times,

(27:35):
like my podcast UMO Murder and sencese of nor media
that could easily be argued that I'm a foreign agent
because I am critiquing the government and because I get
a pay stub from some place of science. And so
he's using this foreign agence laws to dissolve NGOs. He
wants to dissolve nonprofits because the nonprofits are the only

(27:55):
social sainty that left in old Salvador, and you know
they're the ones that are also. You know, the government
isn't telling us how many people are dying in Olsavador.
They don't tell us how many people a dying in prisons.
It has to be individual orgs who like intake these
reports and talk to these loved ones. And you know,

(28:15):
if four hundred people are reported to be dead, Noal Salvador,
we suspect that number to be hired because one not
everyone not. There's not enough transparency to know how many
people have actually died. Too. People family members who have
had have been victimized, or have lost a loved one
or have a detained loved one are afraid to speak out.
So the reports that have been confirmed are only from

(28:37):
these people who have spoken with the NGOs. So the
NGOs are kind of like assisting the people or the
government isn't. And it's not a perfect model, and there's
definitely critiques about that, but you know, this Ford Agence
law means that like journalists like me shouldn't who are
critical and volcan invisible on the subject shouldn't go to
El Salvador. And you know, this Ford Agent's law just

(28:59):
want to say too, it's very similar to laws that
Venezuela has passed to restrict nonprofits that the government doesn't like.
But once Venezuela does this, there's like all this condemnation
when vot does it because they're friends with the United States.
Whatever that being said. Al Fado is a Central American publication,

(29:20):
and I say Central American because it's not El Salvador anymore.
They've had to flee the country Sol Fado, I think,
I think they they they sent their operations to Costa Rica.
But recently El Fado did a really good report. It
was an interview with an ex gang member. His name
is Charlie. He was the leader of Barrio eighteen, and

(29:45):
he said to on camera, he said that we negotiated
with negotiates with gangs. That's how he negotiates the peace.
You know, he gives us something and we give him peace.
And they even negotiate their conditions in the SECO and
the other jails, like the gang members are actually it

(30:09):
said that they are the ones that they have the
best experience in the jails because they have a network
in there. They negotiate with the government and you know,
there's also reports that I fought have done that say
that Bogela's administration has liberated gang leaders like Krook. His
name is elmer Caria Krook. He's a leader of EMS thirteen.

(30:33):
And they say that he was let go. He was
not caught up in this mass incarceration. He was given
an out. And so gang members are like almost a
privileged class in this massive incarceration. And doesn't the defeat
the point. I thought this whole point was to stop gangs,
not to give them special treatment and arrest, you know,
human rights lawyers. And ever since that report that that

(30:56):
interview with with Charlie from Barrioso, sure journalists from Malfao
have had to go into exile. And it's just like okay,
like it's very hostile to be a critical journalist. You
KNOWL Salvador right now, you know who is let into
Ol Salva. Though, these influencers, these bigcoin influencers, these and

(31:18):
they're propaganda. They're like, look at El Salvador, they use bigcoin.
Now they got a Starbucks, I think, use bigcoin at
the El Salvador Starbucks. Look at this beach resort, you know,
but that's the kind of stuff that's not available to
everyday Salvadorans like my family black in Ol Salvea does
not do those things like you know. So yeah, it's unfortunate,

(31:38):
it's unfortunate, but that's the reality.

Speaker 1 (31:40):
What I do want to ask finally, is because of
course there's such We've covered a lot, right and there's
just so much more to say, but satly, our time
is limited, and so I do want to ask, is
there anything I did not ask you that you would
like to bring up.

Speaker 2 (31:54):
I just want to say that the condition that the
desire for safety on salvagor desire from the relief of
gangs and al Salvador, is a very real, very valid
concern that Salvadors have had. I don't want to downplay
all that Salvadorans have suffered because of the gangs and

(32:14):
the war on gangs, but I want to say that
that does not justify eighty thousand people in prisons with
no due process. It does not justify four hundred plus
confirmed deaths in Bugli's prisons. It does not justify that
kind of human rights violation and the kind of corruption

(32:36):
that Bukele is doing. And I also want to say,
if you want to learn more about like the rise
of Bugle, the Rise in the early days and how
we got here. I did a podcast called UMO Murder
and Silence and that's UMO Murder Science and and it
is bilingual, so there are episodes of Spanish and episodes

(32:58):
in English, and you can listen to whichever ones you prefer.
And we chronicle the early days of books Dictatorship, how
we got here, and I even give a little bit
of in the English version. I'm the English language house.
I talked a little bit about my family and how
you know, I mentioned a little bit about my mom
and my uncles. You know, there's a little bit of
that in there. But you know, if you like if

(33:23):
you like murder podcasts, I know that's a big genre,
well this is like a murder podcast, but it's got
politics and you will learn a lot about Ol Salvador
and it's people.

Speaker 1 (33:34):
And thank you so much for sharing with me here.
Make sure to check out, make sure to check to
follow Daniel, make sure to support all of his work,
make sure to say to everything that's going on, let's
not become numb to everything going on. I know it's easy,
but there are consequences to that quite literally. And so yeah,

(34:02):
thank you said that podcast. Since I started this podcast,
I've always said that it isn't just about music, It's
about everything behind the culture. Okay, that's why this episode
with my dear colleague and friend hits different. I might
be covering Pero, but never without politics. And Daniel, with

(34:25):
his failures reporting on Bulis dictatorship, is doing what a
lot of people don't get go to do. Okay, from
the jump, I had to say, he and I, for
lack of better words, are walking parallel paths because whether
it's through journalism or music, both of us speak truth
that don't.

Speaker 3 (34:45):
Always get clasps.

Speaker 1 (34:49):
And salvag What we broke down wasn't like, but it
was necessary. Daniel ain't out here saying bul is just
a Central American issue, nah, because he's not.

Speaker 3 (34:59):
He made a.

Speaker 1 (34:59):
Crystal clear what's happening here in Sabadoda is deeply tied
to US imperialism and the cartrole systems we see right
here in THEOSO.

Speaker 3 (35:09):
That model of.

Speaker 1 (35:10):
Mass incarceration, I style detention centers and even the propaganda tactics,
all of it mirrors US methods.

Speaker 3 (35:17):
And me as agra.

Speaker 1 (35:19):
And for Latina penamina Jamaican, I've heard too many Latinos
more than I ever cared for. Say, to my face,
it'sunami prolema like this, don't touch them. But if you're
Latino in the US and think you're exempt from this, baby,
you're not paying attention. And let's talk about esthetics. Okay,
the la yell res. See those flashy tiktoks, a little

(35:42):
baseball cap, galow bitch trying to be the cool president
quote unquote, that's not swag, that's strategy.

Speaker 3 (35:49):
It's all not maney Plasio. Then it broke it down.

Speaker 1 (35:52):
Those viral images of tattooed prisoners piled themselves. Even now
I was drinking the kool aid, bro that's propaganda. Meanwhile,
the folks actually getting locked up aren't these caricatures, And
that makes complete sense. I can't believe I was drinking
a kool aid Like, for real, there are young kids, awlithas,
even human rights defenders. Bukhetta's government is locking up critics

(36:14):
while letting real gang leaders negotiate from the inside.

Speaker 3 (36:17):
It's all smoke and mirrors, and people fall for it.

Speaker 1 (36:20):
I fell for it because they want simple answers, even
if it costs lives. That was not my reasoning, but
I will admit that I did fall for it. One
of the realist parts of this convo was when we
broke down how US policies built this system.

Speaker 3 (36:34):
This isn't just a bugelet problem.

Speaker 1 (36:37):
This is Reagan, Clinton, Bush, even Obama and Trump, all
of them. Mass deportations, refugee trauma, gang culture born from
the US neglecting war.

Speaker 3 (36:47):
That's all part of this history.

Speaker 1 (36:49):
Side note in sidebar this WILLI challaria fashion show.

Speaker 3 (36:54):
That happened recently.

Speaker 1 (36:56):
With that display, I don't know if I'm completely sold,
because yes, it did bring attention to this phenomenon of
like the gang leaders and that whole esthetic of people
being locked up in cages, it being used as an aesthetic.
I feel like it's dangerous, So like I don't know,
I don't know, I don't know how I feel about that.

Speaker 3 (37:15):
I'm not with it. I'll be honest with you.

Speaker 1 (37:17):
It's leaning towards or no, and don't say saying all
of these presidents are complicit, and yet Latinos here still
don't make the connection. I've had to explain to elders,
Oh my god, we gotta like be conscious of Maia
handled and our don't community that they think just because
someone's arrested that they were guilty. That's not the case,

(37:40):
misa otis the Thirteenth Amendment loophol keeps slavery alive and
well through incarceration.

Speaker 3 (37:46):
No, I'm not being dramatic. Yes this is real.

Speaker 1 (37:49):
Yes, slavery is legal in the United States per the
thirteenth Amendment. Ask to if you love your people, you lakan,
you gotta ask deeper questions and you gotta enterre. I
am daras And yes, fear's part of this too. I
asked Daniel if he's scared, and what he told me
broke my heart, and it made total sense. He can't

(38:10):
go back to the Savador, not because he doesn't want to,
but because it's too dangerous for him as a vocal journalist.
There's a new law labeling people as foreign agents just
for speaking out. So while Daniel's in exile, basically big
cooinbros and influencers are being welcome with open arms to
glamorize a country most of them don't even understand. Bro. Meanwhile,

(38:32):
every day Salvadoran's like his own family and benefiting from
none of that. To close, what really stuck with me?
As Danigel's reminder, Savadorians have a real and valid.

Speaker 3 (38:43):
Fear of gang violence.

Speaker 1 (38:45):
Nobody's saying on Trario, Okay, it's a very real fear.

Speaker 3 (38:49):
Mava, Sava.

Speaker 1 (38:52):
Now, no one's denying the pain and trauma. But that
does not mean that it justifies eighty thousand people in
jail without trial, without trial for those were still not
getting it and listening to me, this is what Trump
was trying to accomplish here by eliminating habeas corpus okay,
and so it doesn't justify over four hundred confirmed deaths

(39:15):
in those jails. Four hundred confirmed deaths. So these people
were kidnapped, put in jail, weren't told whether we're putting
in jail, and then four hundred of the eighty thousand
were killed well in jail. That's crazy to me, and
it damn sure doesn't justify locking up human rights lawyers
or cutting deals with gang leaders. If you're listening and
you want to learn more, as I sure you do.

(39:37):
If you are here, please check out his podcast UMO
Murder in Silence and then sabadon Bilingual.

Speaker 3 (39:44):
It's detailed, it's powerful, it's.

Speaker 1 (39:46):
Dope, and if you take nothing else from this episode,
take this.

Speaker 3 (39:50):
Don't disconnect yourself.

Speaker 1 (39:51):
From the suffering of others just because it's not trending
or happening to you today, your neighbor and tomorrow you
is something that I say all the time. Hand me

(40:13):
hands and you know what time it is.

Speaker 3 (40:14):
It's time for some I'm excited to hear from one
of you.

Speaker 1 (40:18):
Let's get into Ita is Gata and this is I'm
super excited because I'm talk with my intern. I love you, Naomi, Naomi,
how you.

Speaker 4 (40:32):
Doing, I'm good? How are you excited to be here?

Speaker 1 (40:37):
We're getting her from the back of the podcast to
the front. She's in the episode I'm excited. Geta digo,
Naomi d Melon. This episode in particular, I spoke with
Daniel was an amazing journalist and good friend of mine
and girl. I realized that I was sipping the kool aid.
I was seeing a lot of pictures coming out of Sabador,

(41:00):
and like I was believing a lot of propaganda. You're Dominican.
What's your take on your Dominican Puerto Rican? What's your
take on everything going on over there?

Speaker 5 (41:11):
Well, there's two sides, because yeah, I'm Dominican Puerto Rican,
so I'm only used to seeing just news that affect
Dominican Puerto Rico. Like Alo Foke just looks at Dominican
Republic and Dominican Republic and its artists.

Speaker 4 (41:26):
And same goes for Puerto Rico. But as a.

Speaker 5 (41:30):
Student, I also like to take deep dives, especially through
TikTok Twitter, and I feel like TikTok and Twitter exposes
most of what's going on in other countries, especially Central America,
which I don't have access to.

Speaker 1 (41:48):
What up and what you describe? You know, this is
not a job at Alo Foka or anyone else. This
is just like the truth. Right, every country has like
this thing about them where they just report news really
mainly on their own country. Right, So it's really hard
because it's like TV of Puerto Rico. You're not gonna get,

(42:10):
you know, updates on what's going on in Guatemala, you know,
or vice versa. It just is what it is. It's
just the truth. So like with that said, would you
say that what have you found most shocking of like
all the news that's coming out with this whole like
US prison ice pipeline, Like what have you found most shocking? So,

(42:34):
like I see it especially through TISA because they love
promotingly propaganda on there, and it's just like, oh, it's
Houdor is much more safe now. And in the commons,
isss like I wish we had a president just like
and so that we saw him with the Trump and
people were like, oh, I'm so disappointed.

Speaker 5 (42:54):
But this is all presented in front of us. There's
something wrong clearly, like it's just a bad dictator, good
tape dictator and no, no dictator is done. So it's
really interesting to see how people praise him before meeting Trump.

Speaker 2 (43:15):
But it's just like.

Speaker 4 (43:17):
Dictator. Of course he's gonna love Trump.

Speaker 1 (43:22):
Of course, of course the man because you gen Z
and you're like part of a generation where everyone's trying
to like get their hype and their cloud on TikTok,
on all these different apps. What's your take on like
someone like him using this app to like kind of
like popularize himself, Like what what's that like for you

(43:44):
to consume that?

Speaker 5 (43:45):
You know, I think it's very dystopian because TikTok has
become a like number one news source, and especially with
TikTok having its closers and legal issues, TikTok has become
a lot more censored and the fact that we a lot,

(44:05):
especially my age, get a lot of their news source there.
They're trying to push this, Oh is good, is good
and like a like an example for other countries and
the people who don't do their research outside of TikTok,
which a lot of people in my generation don't, then

(44:28):
that's all you're going to consume and that's all you're
going to believe in. Oh, maybe Bua is doing something good.
Maybe we should have more Bogeles if we want a
safe place.

Speaker 1 (44:39):
More sounds like a nightmare girl. And okay, so this
is of course podcast I want to get into, especially
get your take because you're so knowledgeable on this Melosi.
What okay, you're always for the public record, b side.

(45:00):
This is the girl who'll be keeping me him bad Bunny.
His tour Puerto Rico, you know low you want like
what is your what are you paying attention to right now?

Speaker 5 (45:13):
So I think he's like in his third fourth or
he finish his third day of his residency, and I
think it's so interesting how many artists are coming to
support him. And I don't know if you've seen, but
he has like a casita and like in the middle
of Lacholi. Yeah, and it's like different celebrities coming out

(45:34):
to his forem, like I know Zion from signing, Lennox
was there, he read it, even Lebron Jains like everyone
is coming out to here Beheo and Puerto Rico and
this going viral that he started saying names of Allga
Dondo's who like influenced the genre before him, because a

(45:57):
lot of people, you know, praise Bad Bunny as but like,
of course we got to look into his pre processors
who influenced Bad Bunny because this this genre has so much,
is rich in history and it's very it's very hidden,
but it's like, really it should be spoken up. And

(46:19):
since he's inviting people to learn about I think that's
that was right in his part.

Speaker 1 (46:26):
What you know, a lot of exciting things happening with
this tour for sure. What's your take on him like
saying all the names, like, I you know, that's that's crazy.
I I I appreciate it. What's your take on that?

Speaker 5 (46:39):
No, I think it's super important. I really appreciated that
he mentioned the female that are they don't speak about
like la.

Speaker 4 (46:53):
Eby Queen.

Speaker 5 (46:53):
Of course it's always is spoken about, but she needs
to be giving her flowers and she has. I've been
seeing her supporting Bay Bunny in this because he's bringing
like bringing.

Speaker 4 (47:05):
The Coche.

Speaker 5 (47:09):
Puerto Rican Cochet, making it like for people to come
and experience it in Puerto Rico because it's stemming from
Puerto Rico. And yeah, like Puerto Rico is such a
small island and not many people know of the amount.

Speaker 4 (47:28):
Of artists that the island produced.

Speaker 1 (47:33):
It's almost like it's a requirement in school, like the
amount of.

Speaker 5 (47:35):
Artists yeah, yeah, which is so usic collegey in Puerto Rico.

Speaker 1 (47:41):
That would go crazy every time I go to PR
like I'd be asking people like ya Elaga because so
many people come out of Carolina specifically. It's like what's
going on? But I love it. I love it, and
I'm being a speaking of artists who are doing up
ship like girl might like, what is your take on him?
Because he's doing some cool things from me, you know.

Speaker 5 (48:02):
Yeah, I feel like right with his new album, he
did his research, Like if you listen to it, he
like he's really trying to get old Pereal back to
Puerto Rico. Like I know he did something where like
for the release of his album, he had different pins
around San Juan and it's like it's just gonna make

(48:25):
lasting better all in these spots, like it's a mission.

Speaker 4 (48:29):
We're bringing better back no matter what.

Speaker 5 (48:32):
And I really appreciate that because a lot of other
countries are, you know, trying to get their grabs, but
it's just like we have to.

Speaker 1 (48:42):
We have to.

Speaker 4 (48:42):
Puerto Rico has to standstron.

Speaker 1 (48:46):
Absolutely so with all of this suid, you know, I
always love asking people this question, and this may be
a hard one for you, but I know you're gonna
enjoy it. Damn it. If you could an r if
you could put two artists on a song, dead or alive,
with everything said that you just said, who would those
artists be? Put two artists that are alive on the

(49:09):
same track, Who's the gonna be? A girl?

Speaker 3 (49:10):
Who's it gonna be?

Speaker 4 (49:11):
Okay?

Speaker 5 (49:14):
So you know I love my Davy he he does
get your tongue, and I'm gonna say, maybe heck them
at their father put them two together?

Speaker 1 (49:32):
Yeah, okay, Maso, Yeah, okay, even even even I would
like to hear something Malento Hector and even had this.
I like that was crazy that that generation ideas I

(49:53):
can see where you're going the baby from Mariano think
rappy Lito. This was o kay, thank you Yeahpla Flores

(50:19):
Podcast is an iHeartMedia production co executive producer Shikirisy Media
keetto Mucho, produced by Grace Gonsalez Mia More, edited by
Sebastian el Duro, Music by Happy Vibes and shout out
to my co assistant Naomi Ao and Kayla Elasten. I'm
your host, Gata and I'll see you right here next

(50:41):
week on episode fifteen.
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