August 3, 2025 • 48 mins
For those who know, my work as a Reggaeton Historian has shifted culture in Academia, the entertainment industry and the culture at large. After critiquing Bad Bunny for 5 years, and the uptick in classes he's inspiring even in the IVY leagues, this is my take on my impact on Academia and the need for a Tego Calderon Syllabus...analyzing race in Latinidad & Perreo de verdad.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:23):
Me Hantlen that this episode, I want to talk to
you about my creation of the syllabus. And before I
get into that, let me give you some context here.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yo.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
I remember the first time, that one time, the one
time I saw theego sing live. I was lucky. I
was a student in New York and he sang at
a nightclub in Manhattanama. I just remember Cardi B joined
him on stage, and I thought to myself, like, bro,
this is so dope and that makes complete sense Cardi
(00:57):
B and Theego on the stage, like come on. Cardi
had just blown up from love and hip hop and
was really tapped into all things culture and as a
fan I was living growing up, I had thirty first cousins, yes,
three year old thirty and my family be outside and
most of my cousins are Primo Edbanos and aunt's Titi Mammis,
(01:21):
in other words, were close. They raised me. My aunt,
in particular, Cladisa, is the one I'm closest to my
mom's youngest sister. She also had the most amount of kids,
six and my point is she was the most hip.
I remember being in the back of her red Ford expedition,
(01:42):
a car that could fit like seven of my cousins
and her in the front seat went Mommy, my cousin, Macho,
who's my age? Yariza Eli, evely my sister. We'd all
be singing Toaaasa or Enemy the Lowasi or five her
to run it back to name or Loisa Clarissa played
(02:10):
tego alongside her salsa tapes and bachata And thinking back,
I never realized the curation of it all, keeping it
ethnic black like unambiguously. Back then, there was so much
Leon to choose from, and I was a kid. I'm
talking Lime war Days, MSN, Messenger, MEHND, MySpace, Loke Saving, Saving,
(02:34):
and my family. I grew up with a pro black
understanding of my identity, and it was simple, I'm black
and that's beautiful, complicado or something that I had to unpack.
It was just how I saw things, never having desires
to bleach my skin or look like anybody else. That
(02:55):
I was right there next to those deemed desirable, because
I too was desirable. Touche su. When I heard theego
rap about while growing up in the hood, I figured,
you know, hell yeah, as much as I could comprehend,
(03:19):
because again I was a preteen, I was on a
baby on a chamaca. I tell you all of that
to say, the Regaton Tego has been a part of
my life that as I grew older and Pereo expanded
with hiss from jolian Heta father, it was generally the
(03:41):
happiest part of my childhood to go to school, witness
these releases and celebrate Hagaton culture in Boston the way
that we did. I truly feel bad for gen Zgo.
I know, I know y'all are the future and whatnot,
but this time was magic. Experiencing this was magic When
I decided to go to college. That stayed with me
(04:01):
as I was in this dormitory and classes with all
these gringo gringos. Gringa ga Reggaeton isn't just a bunch
of random witty phrases. We're cool beats. It's a lifestyle
and imperfect one one made by black Latinos, Black Latinos
and reggaton history spent from the late eighties from Heneran
(04:25):
but really Chombo and most notably Tego Dono, Mar gard Lenos,
La Sista Give Queen Maki Panti Man Angel does, Joe Randino,
Rookie Ery Lover, then for La Factoria, Don Miguelo, and
todaya sege Osuna so many more, despite whitewashing in the mainstream, okay,
(04:51):
because let's be real about that, which all that means,
by the way, is that there's a deliberate preference of
white artists over black in representation, business deals, opportunities, respect
and legacy. Black Latinos have been present throughout time despite
it all. Okay, just because we're not in the headlines
(05:12):
won't mean that we don't exist. So I imagine my
surprise when in the mid two twenty tens and artists
with green eyes and locks calls himself Negritojo Plato was
taking over the radio. I, like other Afro Latinos, thought,
oh shit, we're finally being spoken to on a consistent basis.
(05:34):
There was they like Geto Magata and then and when
Ama Massimala and dealers, I felt so senior. Half of
it wasn't even Ragaton, but it was so dope that
we didn't care. Okay, the Latin trap was immaculate. And
then in twenty nineteen, Kevin Frett was murdered and allegations
(05:58):
are flying left and right. Mistrust is soaring rightfully so.
In Puerto Rico, the queer community, especially La moniec As
the dolls, are constantly having their lives threatened due to
homophobia and transphobia. Let's keep it a hundred osuna. To
black people was like our modern day dono mad. We
(06:20):
felt seen, heard, represented, Like the authentic and just coolness
of blackness was finally being seen in the contemporary space.
Oh yeah, okay, oh, but like it's really crazy just
looking out and hearing you, seeing the aesthetic of you,
but not really seeing you. Like that's really crazy. So
(06:43):
when his star began to fall, there was a morning
of swords that occurred because all of a sudden, here
we are again with a white superstar taking up so
much space in the genre. And with all of that said,
bad Bunny, a little weird, the newest thing out on
the scene comes out of the woodwork, and it's like,
(07:04):
I love the gay people. With his queer allyship caping
and yo perl sola and painted nails and all of
the other stunts he pulled off, and one thing was undeniable,
the music was exceptional as a black way Latina in media, though,
I saw the void that was being filled and I
(07:25):
was happy for it. I was. I was also just
like damn otro Blanco. Can we get at least I
don't know a pledge of solidarity since he took up
queerness as a cause something that has nothing to do
with him. It matters because argument Ragaton, I love it
(07:45):
so much, Okay, like so much, clearly, but Ragaton has
a history of racism and xenophobia that is profound fail
mihante gestimpreo okay era like it's always going to be
in the room, and me loving Raton means knowing that
(08:09):
sometimes the genre is gonna disrespect me, Like that's something
that I have accepted, Like, if I'm gonna be here,
I just gotta manage my expectations because disrespect is just
part of the program. If I'm gonna be part of
this space aura, knowing that it also means that I'm
not safe in all spaces, Okay, knowing that it means
(08:32):
that I'll be met with white mediocrity, oh my god,
and even overt racism from time to time. And I
have all black people do in some format. So for
those who know, the first Berlinguo podcast in English and
Spanish and the first Regton history I me Gata Gatalina
(08:58):
at liston that I democratized access to real Rayaton history
one on one inspired the loud podcast which I worked on,
the Lakaye, which was nominated for an Emmy Messy Ass Project,
but I'll get into that later. In academics, I mean
they stay in their world. There's been books by doctor
(09:20):
Petri Riveraid, by Wayne Marshall, by Rivera, by a Marizo Lebroun,
people who I all admire and respect. But academics stay
in the world, and entertainment stays in their world. And
I bridge Raggaeton from the academic world into pop culture.
Within all of these spaces, culture, you are welcome. I
(09:43):
realized as a student in twenty seventeen that I looked
online and Raggaeton history online online, which was accessible to
the public. Okay, it was whack. It was whack, It
was limited, it had no nuance, it was a historical
sometimes even, and it was poorly organized. As the first
(10:04):
Rageton historian influencer which ough, so I know, I hate
the word influencer. I hate it so much because I
am the influenced motherfucker, like the gay influencer. I'm not
doing no challenges but I want to one is assigned
in schools across the world inspired students to change their majors,
their masters. I can't tell you how many thesis I'm
(10:27):
in a sally. I'm not the point, I'm really not.
The truth is the work is humanizing people, is understanding
our differences are for two long Panamanians, Jamaicans and Dominicans,
all black, having gotten their flowers in the midst of this,
(10:48):
to the point in history, major gatekeepers have let certain
things lie. Oh, let's talk about it your sola. Why
doesn't Aventura, one of America's biggest boy bands, have a
Latin Grammy exactly bad Bunny embracing quareness was refreshing, okay,
(11:08):
so that nobody gets that confused. It was refreshing. I said,
oh my god, finally it's giving Bde. I won't translate that.
Machaesmo is rampant, okay. And people are lazy in their
homophobia and quaiophobia. Honestly, if you're homophobic, it's like, why
get to DNA, because honestly, we're lit Like you need
(11:30):
some rabel your life, Like what is your problem? Mind? You?
This music came from a political place with Panamanians resisting
against Noriega dictatorship and military and Banama dictators Can you
like imagine that bark was fighting against Rosa Yo's iron
Fist against crime, which allowed for the National Guard to
(11:52):
be posted up in the hood with rifles like can
you imagine? And they you're getting arrested for just playing
the ground Loyamawa and colonialism in general and la Islam,
and then in Dominican Republic, Dominicans were rebuilding their society
and trying to figure out how to really celebrate blackness
(12:15):
on a mainstream wave after the impact, the devastating impact
of thro Heio's dictatorship and it's aftermath. This music can
be deemed pornographic's greedy, all the nasty things, you could
call it whatever you want. At the end of the day,
is still political. It's still something that moved people forward.
(12:38):
So color me surprised. In twenty twenty when George Floyd
was murdered by a cop on camera, shared everywhere internationally
and African Americans are industry protesting and some Latinos were chilling,
bro chilling. Somenos were chilling on my Instagram timeline on
(13:01):
jet skis in the club chilling, and nobody was saying
a word. Eventually that Yankee did, Becky g did. I'll
give them their credit, like there were some artists, but
at large everybody was like, oh, it's just another day.
And I'm like, you gotta be freaking kidding me. Bro.
I felt like it was the true reflection of what
I said earlier. To love reggaeton is to be disrespected
(13:25):
as a black person is to know that sometimes it
will have no regard for the survival of black people,
despite its in its beginnings aura. When Bad Bunny first
stepped out on the scene, it was on SoundCloud, lookusav
and Saven. He was discovered by Luyan. Eventually he put
(13:46):
out which in my opinion, by the way, is like
his best song then and oh to hecta father and
even I mean, let's be for real. The name Bad
Bunny turned everybody's heads because Bad Bunny, like, come on,
it's sexy, let's be real. So to see him pick
(14:09):
up queerness, I was excited. I'm like, all right, all right,
all right, white boy, all right, you straight man, like
thank you, like please say the things. But then he
left black eyelashship on the ground, and that made me understand, he,
like everyone before him and manny after him, will not
(14:31):
see the plight of black people as white people be doing,
like that's just what white people do. The cause was
right there to pick up, and like many Latinos do,
they go not my problem or simply are so detached
from the reality that they look past the problems so
much that they convince themselves it doesn't exist in the
(14:52):
first place, which I mean, how arrogant do you have
to be to convince yourself that racism doesn't exist? Five.
You could play in traffic, you could play with your mom,
but you're not gonna play in our face. Like that's crazy,
mind you. I wouldn't even care, like at all. But
because he picked up the woke cape, right, he picked
(15:13):
it up. We didn't assign it to him. He picked
it up. He said I love the gay people, and
he did that after a black artist star was on
the out mintender Like that's the whole reason why I
have even asked these questions in the first place. And
I left it there. I simply wanted to ask, can
(15:35):
you care about this as well? I figured, you know,
it's not too much since you overhere picking up causes
that got nothing to do with you, like what Coran
has got to do with your bad bunny naha. But
apparently I was wrong. I write in my op ed
remecla he's asked, and he's asked on anti blackness for
a time, and he says, we all can't breathe, and
(16:00):
nobody blinked an eye. We all can't breathe. I mean, bro,
some of y'all can breathe. This is quite literally the point.
So don't know which is why I'm bringing this up
in the first place, But I mean, how Latino is
the answer to like, put everybody's problems together when they're not.
(16:22):
We don't stand up for each other, we don't look
the same, we don't act the same, we're not socialized
the same. So to put up problems as the same,
it's crazy. It's hilarious actually, So I want to be
clear my criticism on him isn't even on him at
this point, but on how Latinos are so easy to
look past the black plight and exchange for symbols and
(16:45):
good vibes. La changkla la goncha all of y'all. Honestly,
y'all exhaust me. In twenty twenty three, three years after
his team scolded me, I will never appreciate that shit
asking me, why didn't I ask about it behind closed doors?
I got to write it in an article. Hello, charge
it to the game. You do this in public, you
(17:06):
get acts in public asifua. More importantly, he final he
most stream artists in the world like all of that
paranoia and honestly racist scolding on me for nothing, and
said he was educating himself Tuslawake and also me a
lot in terms of this because in response to what
he's learned acts in twenty twenty three, he said, I
(17:30):
love Tego now, since one is loving a black person,
one person equivalent to like, oh, I know everything that
has to do with race and history, Like what the hell?
So I don't know? That was weird And Tuslawake on
another note, Benny told me too, I love Tego too.
(17:51):
Now in the midst of this, I hope I y'all
get that I'm simply just asking questions. But I really
am giving this man his flowers because bad Bunny, at
the end of the day, is a progressive. He has
changed the conversation on Puerto Rico, lifted up that beautiful
island in ways that nobody else has ever said respectfully,
(18:12):
like the impact that Bad Bunny has had on PR,
nobody else has had that impact on PR, like gotta
give it to him always and will happily give it
to him. This is not the point I, as a
black person, I can't look past the lack of solidarity
President and Reggaeton in general. Okay, I instead choose to
(18:35):
uplift that which explicitly sustains and supports the black plight.
Ork Pork. It is dramatically worse in comparison for black
people than white people. And if we're smart, we shouldn't
trust any blanchito to cape for us anyways because of oh,
I don't know history, since one in history, like how
(18:58):
the white person fought so hard and soul diligently for
the plight of black people to the point where it's
created actual systemic change. Okay, exactly, Like we need our allies,
and we need those who are willing to do the work,
but it never should be on one person, just so
that's clear. So when I'm invited to a Bad Bunny
(19:20):
symposium before they go Got it Own symposium, or an
interview on NPR with Puerto Rican academics about yet another
bad Bunny course at Yale, which side note, I didn't
even know there was that money bad Bunny courses, So
that interview talking about five, I was like, huh, I'm
not getting my invitations. I don't know. I'm my emails
(19:42):
in my bio for my lectures, me hunter an IVY league.
And the conversation isn't about nuance. Oh my god, that conversation.
It wasn't about nuance or race or colonialism, but of
being featured in the New York Times when none of
us should give it about the New York Times because
their irresponsible coverage of Palestine has contributed to the genocide
(20:07):
over there. We supposedly understand the parallel of struggle between
Puerto Rico and Palatina. Bro the plot is lost. The
plot is lost. The plot is lost. Cloud chasing is pervasive,
and I'm removing myself like if that's csol okay yo machito.
(20:28):
The funny thing is I bought tego can syllabus dot
com years ago, years ago, after the Bad Bunny Symposium,
and since then I bought it, I didn't renew it
and went back into the market, and then then went
back to regular price, and I just rebought it the
same day again after the NPR interview, because I just
(20:50):
couldn't believe A that nobody bought it.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
In B.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
I couldn't believe that A nobody got it, and b
A Navi and Nadi Sola Rio Annalisa Bereo with the
darkskin black man Diego who spoke to blackness and la
Isla years ago. Loisa centered it bridged in more ways
(21:19):
than is what has ever been spoken about, gave flowers
to Dominicans before it was trendy, had no one's bars
on being the enemy of the state, back when nobody
wanted to be quote unquote that deep Am. There are
pearls and cons of being a reaton historian, but especially
(21:40):
one that is Panamanian, Jamaican, dark skin queer. I quite
literally encompassed everything that any xenophobe, homophobe or racist hates
like Yo Sola gonna become. But you know what, well,
I absolutely am actively working towards what I just Monetarily.
(22:01):
The work is bigger than me. Black people are treated
as disposable, are polite trendy, our existence a non priority.
But to that, I say comodaveteal Carajo. Blackness is beautiful,
even in its simplest state, is a form of existence,
of resistance, rebellion because it challenges everything we're taught to
(22:25):
center because of white supremacy and the everlasting effects of colonialism.
So with the Tego syllabus, can't believe I'm doing this.
I hope to shift culture again in collaboration. I don't
want to do all of this on my own. By
centering one of the most important black figures in Dragaton history,
(22:47):
the legacy of Black Latinos and Regaton, which includes the
legacy of white supremacy in Regaton, and most importantly, an
honest take on the parallels of race in the diaspora
and culture really look like what it really looks like
because today, like Oi, LIKEO, the plot is lost, Bro,
(23:10):
the plot is focused on symbolism, which historically has never
saved anybody marginalized. Let's move the needle further, Yevmi and
sign up to the syllabus. They're bad, Bonnie. This isn't
(23:31):
a clop back, This isn't a think piece wrapped in
Twitter length pot takes. This is me face to face
with the cultural giant you've become trying to sit with
the contradictions of what you present and what you've neglected
and the beauty that you bring. When I started pa
hed one on one and later the Goalagata, it was
because the stories that existed about our genre, our culture
(23:55):
were not just incomplete, they were wrong. They were erased,
they were I eluded, they were whitewashed. The global rise
of reggaeton came with the silence around who built it
Afro Caribbean people, Panamanians, Jamaicans, Black Boriquas. So I did
the work. I pieced together the fragmented histories. I made
(24:16):
it make sense. I built a bridge between us, the marginalizes,
and the culture we built. And I did it without
a machine behind me, without the cot sign of those
who hold the keys. And here's where you come in, Benito.
I've critiqued to you before, back in twenty twenty, during
the peak of Black Lives Matter protests, you were silent,
(24:36):
and when you finally spoke, you said, we all can't breathe.
And that really wasn't it. It felt like a dismissal
of your specific pain. Then it felt like a dismissal
of our specific pain. Then came the time in of
you in twenty twenty three, where again your response to
Alfa Latinidad lacked depth. In other words, NA, it wasn't malicious,
(25:00):
but it reveals something real, a gap in understanding that you,
with your platform, have the responsibility to close. But it
ain't all critique. I've given you your floater, your challenged norms.
You gave Dominican artists there shine when no one else did.
I will always be grateful for that as someone who
loves Lodomi's. You've raised political consciousness about Puerto Rico, fuckre
(25:26):
and colonialism. You skip the US on your latest tour
and reminded fans that Puerto Rico isn't a pit stop,
it's the center you move culture period. Never mind all
the work that you're doing with your foundation. I'm paying attention.
So why do I feel this ache? Why do I
feel othered by your team, your fans and sometimes you
(25:49):
pause slight. It's the kind of ache that comes from
watching someone eat at a table you help build, but
never getting offered a seat. It's a silence when you
know someone's watching your work but won't name it. It's
the way black women in this space, especially those of
us with deeper seeds are used as reference points but
(26:11):
rarely cited. I'm not asking for retweet. I'm asking for accountability,
for intentionality, for a better future where Afro Latinos from
all corners of the Caribbean are central, not supplemental, because
we made this ship. So this is for you, Benito,
not to condemn, to speak the truth that gets swallowed
(26:35):
in the noise of fandom, algorithm and industry politics. This
episode isn't just about one man. It's about power, it's
about proximity, it's about legacy, and it's about how we
write our own stories when the world tries to erase
us from the footnotes. So you got I'm super excited
(27:26):
because it's a rappy little where I stopped yapping and
it's from one of you. This week, I am super
excited to be speaking with none other than Joins. Are
you Willie? Are you doing?
Speaker 2 (27:40):
I am good? How are you good?
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Good?
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Good?
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Thanks for being here, rappy litle dey may. Are you
ready to answer some quick questions? Yes, okay, let's get
right into it first and foremost in this episode, as
you know, we're talking about call that a little bit girl.
It's a new era. So with us, I want to
know what is your experience for in academia.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
I was I went to undergrad at Wesleyan University, and
I remember I wrote wasn't long enough, So I don't
know why I'm saying I remember, but I did write
a chapter of my thesis on j Noah, which she's
not a kadone artist, but it did include your work,
which I think was important in shaping my chapter and
(28:26):
talking about a black Dominican artist and how she was
presenting herself to the world. And I think with that
in mind, I'm able to look forward to thinking about
other dondos or artists in the industry who are like
can be brought into academia to discuss the impact of
the genre into our culture.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Thank you so much. First of all, thank you for
including your work that means a lot, which I mean
perfect segue into the next question. How did you discover
ra like in your words? Like what iss impact important?
Like speaking as a student, I'm super like interested in
(29:14):
hearing your take.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
So I first discovered on Twitter and then I followed
your work for a really long time before we met
each other. Because you were supposed to come to Wesleyan,
and even though that did not happen, I think we
built a beautiful relationship. And after that I interviewed you
(29:37):
for my Jinah chapter, uh, and that was really fun
because I got to talk to you, and I think
what was fun about that is seeing your impact like
come to shape in my own work, and that impact
being like the fact that you're doing this public public
(29:58):
facing Sorry, let me public facing. I'm looking for another word,
but I'm forgetting it. Public scholarship, Yes, that's the word.
I'm yeah. So I'm thinking about the impact of the
(30:19):
public facing scholarship that you're doing and the fact that
not only does it stay within the pockets of academia,
which we might think of academia as it being a
really large field, but in actuality it isn't. And I
think sometimes things can exist in a vacuum, whereas this
public facing scholarship that you're doing, I think a lot
(30:40):
of people can consume it and understand it. And it's
also bilingual, so that reaches double the amount of people,
which I think is obviously really important to thinking about
Regato and it's significance.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
I appreciate that girl, and in Whage case, Okay, and
now you are studying congratulations means thank you. What is
your biggest takeaway from Raaton in the academic space.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
I think one of the biggest takeaways is the fact
that I think culturally sometimes we perceiveadon to be non
meaning or like it doesn't have any meaning, it doesn't
hold any meaning. But then when you actually look at
the artists and what they're saying about their work, not
just the songs the lyrics that are being sung, you
(31:32):
can understand the real impact that the genre has. And
I think through the academic space you're able to discover
those nuances that may not be there like just in
the song, but then you're able to dive deeper and
actually analyze the things that are being said and how
they're being said, and through that you can again think
(31:55):
about that impact culturally Thatgaton is making. That maybe people
who do not like and think that sule sized classier
or chattized classier are not paying attention to those things,
but we are, Well, is there like.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
A wind passing by or like.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
A there's an air purified? I think that might be
it or the.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Okay, because I can already imagine my audio editor cussing
me out.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Nothing that should be a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Okay, So that's that I'm doing this for you and
for me and for you not to kill me. Okay.
Re asking the question, what is your biggest takeaway from
hagathon in the academic space?
Speaker 2 (32:48):
With all of that, Si, yes, I think one of
the biggest takeaways from nagaton in the academic space is
the fact that the genre has been maybe misconceptualized as
a genre that doesn't tell us anything about our culture
or is not a space where artists are having a
cultural impact or are thinking about things in a grander
(33:11):
scheme of things rather than just like beehreo and dancing.
And I think through the academic space we have been
able to dive deeper and analyzetong in a in a
way that shows its meaningful impact and not just our culture,
but just like the way that we think about creative
fields and how people are able to express their morals
(33:33):
and their ethics through the genre.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
And with that said, speaking about relevance and all these things,
talk to me about the cultural relevance of dekleron.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
I think when you asked that question, my first thought
was thinking about my childhood and growing up in the
dr and as a little girl knowing who was without
knowing who he was, like knowing his lyrics but not
knowing who this person was and knowing what he looked like.
But again, who is this? And I think like for
(34:10):
a lot of people, maybe he was just someone that
was always in the back back of our childhood and
like shaping those memories. But it wasn't until growing up
that you actually realize who Tego was, and like the
cultural icon that he is and the importance of him
in Regatong and in Latini Dad, and the fact that
(34:32):
he was a proud black Puerto Rican in the in
the movement, like the Head movement is just really important
to think about. And I think maybe we need to
start discussing him more because I think maybe the hype
has dived down, and I don't think that should be right.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
I agree, girl, That's why I'm starting to syllabus like
I am happy for certain artists in their existence, but
I'm also like, oh my god, I got that one
on what I said, the cultural relevance of Bad Bunny.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
I am a hardcore by Bunny fan. I think in
the way that someone like my brother who's six years
older than me, grew up with theego. I have been
kind of impacted in that way by Bad Bunny, even
though it's very different the work that they're doing. I
think Bad Bunny has become more cultural, more relevant culturally
(35:31):
because of the work that he's doing in talking about
the independence of Puerto Rico from the United States and
you know, the residency, you see a lot of people
wearing their Puerto Rican flags really proudly, and I think
with that you can see the impact that an artist
(35:51):
can have in political movements. And he obviously is not
the first one to do it, but I think we're
seeing it now to a new scale because of the
relevance that he also has on the American market. I
don't know. I think it's interesting to think about, like
the comparison between Tego and Bad Bunny. It's like, obviously
(36:13):
the Goo is a black Puerto Rican and Bad Bunny isn't.
And then I lost my train of thought. But I
don't even think that was a finished sentence.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
I think you're a good girl. It's like, I think
we're following where you're going. And I would agree, like
I'm a Bad Bunny fan to contrary to popular belief
and the way that he's putting up for Puerto Rico
is breathtaking, So we can honestly leave it at that,
because that in and of itself is powerful, and like,
(36:45):
I couldn't be happier for Puerto Rican people that they
have such a champion. And I said it various times
like I feel like if every country had a Bad Bunny,
the world would be a better place. I believe that.
So yeah, thank you for your your intake on that.
And with that said them, there are now more than
I think the number five if I'm not if I'm
(37:05):
not mistaken, Bad Bunny courses and universities across the country. Well,
Prince then Yale, what's your take on that.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
I think it's interesting that Bad Bunny, as someone who
is I guess now it's like still on his peak,
is having classes being dedicated to him. I would I
would have assumed that that would come later on in
his career, but it's interesting to see that that's happening
now while he's like, you know, this super mega star.
(37:40):
I think, you know, it's really interesting to dedicate a
class to Bad Bunny. But I think that needs to
be thought out really well, because what is the class
going to be before. Is it about his artistry or
is it about the political impact that he's having? And
I think these classes might have students maybe with the
(38:03):
misconception that this is like a fan club where we're
just analyzing Bad Bunny solely by himself. But we need
to start thinking about what are the real implications of
talking about him and idealizing him, and where are the
good things that we can say about Bad Bunny And
where are the things that maybe we can talk and
(38:25):
disagree with about how he's moving aka him for example,
not saying anything about Godz that to this day, him
not saying anything about Black Lives Matter in twenty twenty.
I think those are things that we need to take
into consideration, while also maybe talking about the relevance that
he has. I mean, we can't just like admire him
and not criticize some of the things that he's doing
(38:49):
rather not doing.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
I have no worse at that said, how do you
identify and do you think? Sorry? How do you identify?
Do you think academic spaces via regaton? Okay? How do
you identify culturally? And do you think? Sorry? I'm like,
what is this question? How do I identify culturally? And do
(39:12):
you think academic spaces via regaton are prime Are they
prime for racial consciousness? Like what is that within the
nature of it? Why or why not?
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Hmm. I'm a proud Dominican Afro Dominican period, I don't
know if academic spaces are prime for racial consciousness. I
also don't know Ifton is prime for racial consciousness at
this point. I mean the fact that like Diego Card,
(39:46):
like I said earlier, is still like underrated to some degree.
And I talked about enough like yes, bad Bunny brought
in a large crowd into a reggaton movement, let's say,
or not movement, but into the genre people listening to
because of him. Let's say, let's educate those people on
who is And I don't know if either of those
(40:09):
two spaces are equipped fully to talk about racial consciousness
within the genre, because I think in academic spaces it
can get complicated because we can we think that we
need to like pake the perfect representation of Reggaton, for example,
(40:29):
to be able to talk about the genre and not
talk about the characters that maybe have done things that
are not politically like appropriate, I guess, or you know,
like we we take the people's downfalls. Well, no, what
(40:50):
am I trying to say? Well, I think the first
part was good, but.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Can we say it?
Speaker 2 (40:57):
Yeah. I think within academic spaces we build someone up
in a way that maybe we cannot criticize them. And
I think it's the same in Herega Doong, Like if
you criticize an artist, then you are a hater, which
may not be true. You just want maybe that person
to be a better person and a better representation of
(41:20):
the movement. And I think, yeah, I don't know if
either spaces are fully equipped, but I hope that we
can begin to make strivees at that because I think
looking at Hega Doong and looking at racial consciousness through
Higadong is really important because I think it will highlight
to a lot of people the importance of the Spanish
(41:42):
speaking Caribbean to Latini dad, and I think is one
of those ways.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Not perfectly sign beautiful sign. And so to bring this
into like a contemporary space, I would like to ask you, like,
if you can put two artists on agaton song dead
or alive, who would it be And what's the vibe?
Speaker 2 (42:06):
All right, the vibe? I don't know, They're gonna have
to work it out in the studio, but I don't no, no,
you're the a NR.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Is this romantic? Is this money? And so so like also,
my girl, you gotta do the job, like no, all right.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
Let me lock in. I think personally that I in
the contemporary side, I'm thinking about j Noah because she
I don't think she's ever done aga dong, And I
think maybe through people, a lot more people can get
to know her and her talent. I mean, I adore
her as an artist. I mean ever in a chapter
(42:44):
about her. My pisis so clearly I'm a fan. And
then I was thinking of someone who is maybe a
proud black woman from the Caribbean, and my mind went
to Sealia Cruz and maybe the vibe is empowerment. Maybe
the vibe is talking about black womanhood in the Caribbean,
(43:07):
and maybe that's a little too like political, but like,
I think it'll be fun to see them talk about
what that is. Celia from a you know, like earlier
in time and J Noah like talking about that now,
and the fact that one is Cuban, one is Dominican.
There's a lot of conversations that could be had about
(43:29):
what black womanhood looks like in the Spanish Caribbean.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
Word up. I like hares asuka as.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
You yes, yes, okay.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
And lastly, there's a lot going on in Dragaton outside
of the artists I haven't mentioned today. What is your
hot take on what's going on in Dragaton right now?
Speaker 2 (43:53):
My het take is that some people need to stop
doing thembo. Leave that to the Minnicans please, I'm so sorry,
like slease for real, Who's Who's Who's people's girl?
Speaker 1 (44:06):
Gee?
Speaker 2 (44:07):
She needs to stop? Okay, she needs to.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
I blow up?
Speaker 2 (44:12):
She needs to stop. Oh fediatic cool? Whatever? The new one?
I have no idea. Needs to stop. It needs to stop.
Should have been left in the studio.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
Okay, wait pause, pause, time out, time out. Okay. First
of all, I didn't hear trota, so I can't comment
on it because how am I going to say something?
And I don't even know? But okay, so I have
to follow that up with the question, because this has
been a conversation. Do you think that she copied Bad Bunny?
Like do you think that's possible?
Speaker 2 (44:47):
Like? Really, I don't think she copied Bad Bunny, but
I do think that the timing is really interesting because
you have Ralejandro and Bad Bunny, who are the two
most popular a Rican artists, doing these albums that are
like culturally introspective and highlighting Bombay music and things from
(45:10):
their country that people are not used to Withinton, and
then she comes out with this new album. I wouldn't
say it's copying, but maybe it's like I don't like
looking over and seeing, oh, maybe that's cool and then
doing it but not. I wouldn't say it's directly copying,
but I don't know. I think she's interesting. I think
(45:33):
she's interesting, Like this whole what's what's the word that
she said that she came up with?
Speaker 1 (45:39):
Come on, now, Okay, she didn't come up with a word.
She didn't say that that was j Lis Puerto Rican
gave her the word, So like, what are we gonna do?
You know what I mean? Like at that point, because
it's like gave it her and I'm like, oh, well,
I can't really argue, like if you're gonna give away
your things, well then you know what I mean. Legal.
(46:01):
I so this is one thing I'll say and I
try not to chime and d but I think that
because in her words, she said that she wanted this
to be the most Latina album ever. And I was like,
I don't know what that means, but I think that she,
you know, at the end of the day, she's the
biggest is I'll give her that. Like it's true, you know,
(46:23):
like she's been working hard, and I think that even
with all the awards that she's gotten, it's like she's
trying to solidify her place in history as like I
call it like a Latina figure, you know what I mean.
So I feel like this was like a like her
attempt at doing that, like as a oh my god,
sel yeah, like in history said it was like one
(46:45):
of the biggest SASA artists. I feel like with her,
she's like she's like not trying to brand herself as
like one of the biggest reggaeton artists, but it's one
of the biggest Latin artists. But the thing is, it's
like I'm confused as to like That's when I started questioning,
like why don't you try to bring yourself I was
like one of the biggest artists. It's like, does she
feel like she did that or is it that she's
(47:06):
moved on from that? And she's like, you know, speaking
and I don't know I guess that's like what my
where my brain goes like, I don't get why, but
I have a lot of thoughts. I haven't heard the
music yet, so I'm shut up with that said girl,
thank you so much for joining me. Yeah. My Son
(47:32):
for La Flores is an I Heart Media production co
executive produced by of Shak Easy Media. Love You Noia,
produced by Grace Gonsales The Ghetto Mucho. A shout out
to Sebastian Payan, what would I do without you? Shout
out to my assistant producers, Kayla, I listen to Naomi
(47:52):
as Sarello. Shout out to music by Habbi Vibes and Elomina.
I'm your host, Lagata see you right, hereata next week
and I Heart Radio Up are wary Listen
Me Hantlen that this episode, I want to talk to
you about my creation of the syllabus. And before I
get into that, let me give you some context here.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yo.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
I remember the first time, that one time, the one
time I saw theego sing live. I was lucky. I
was a student in New York and he sang at
a nightclub in Manhattanama. I just remember Cardi B joined
him on stage, and I thought to myself, like, bro,
this is so dope and that makes complete sense Cardi
(00:57):
B and Theego on the stage, like come on. Cardi
had just blown up from love and hip hop and
was really tapped into all things culture and as a
fan I was living growing up, I had thirty first cousins, yes,
three year old thirty and my family be outside and
most of my cousins are Primo Edbanos and aunt's Titi Mammis,
(01:21):
in other words, were close. They raised me. My aunt,
in particular, Cladisa, is the one I'm closest to my
mom's youngest sister. She also had the most amount of kids,
six and my point is she was the most hip.
I remember being in the back of her red Ford expedition,
(01:42):
a car that could fit like seven of my cousins
and her in the front seat went Mommy, my cousin, Macho,
who's my age? Yariza Eli, evely my sister. We'd all
be singing Toaaasa or Enemy the Lowasi or five her
to run it back to name or Loisa Clarissa played
(02:10):
tego alongside her salsa tapes and bachata And thinking back,
I never realized the curation of it all, keeping it
ethnic black like unambiguously. Back then, there was so much
Leon to choose from, and I was a kid. I'm
talking Lime war Days, MSN, Messenger, MEHND, MySpace, Loke Saving, Saving,
(02:34):
and my family. I grew up with a pro black
understanding of my identity, and it was simple, I'm black
and that's beautiful, complicado or something that I had to unpack.
It was just how I saw things, never having desires
to bleach my skin or look like anybody else. That
(02:55):
I was right there next to those deemed desirable, because
I too was desirable. Touche su. When I heard theego
rap about while growing up in the hood, I figured,
you know, hell yeah, as much as I could comprehend,
(03:19):
because again I was a preteen, I was on a
baby on a chamaca. I tell you all of that
to say, the Regaton Tego has been a part of
my life that as I grew older and Pereo expanded
with hiss from jolian Heta father, it was generally the
(03:41):
happiest part of my childhood to go to school, witness
these releases and celebrate Hagaton culture in Boston the way
that we did. I truly feel bad for gen Zgo.
I know, I know y'all are the future and whatnot,
but this time was magic. Experiencing this was magic When
I decided to go to college. That stayed with me
(04:01):
as I was in this dormitory and classes with all
these gringo gringos. Gringa ga Reggaeton isn't just a bunch
of random witty phrases. We're cool beats. It's a lifestyle
and imperfect one one made by black Latinos, Black Latinos
and reggaton history spent from the late eighties from Heneran
(04:25):
but really Chombo and most notably Tego Dono, Mar gard Lenos,
La Sista Give Queen Maki Panti Man Angel does, Joe Randino,
Rookie Ery Lover, then for La Factoria, Don Miguelo, and
todaya sege Osuna so many more, despite whitewashing in the mainstream, okay,
(04:51):
because let's be real about that, which all that means,
by the way, is that there's a deliberate preference of
white artists over black in representation, business deals, opportunities, respect
and legacy. Black Latinos have been present throughout time despite
it all. Okay, just because we're not in the headlines
(05:12):
won't mean that we don't exist. So I imagine my
surprise when in the mid two twenty tens and artists
with green eyes and locks calls himself Negritojo Plato was
taking over the radio. I, like other Afro Latinos, thought,
oh shit, we're finally being spoken to on a consistent basis.
(05:34):
There was they like Geto Magata and then and when
Ama Massimala and dealers, I felt so senior. Half of
it wasn't even Ragaton, but it was so dope that
we didn't care. Okay, the Latin trap was immaculate. And
then in twenty nineteen, Kevin Frett was murdered and allegations
(05:58):
are flying left and right. Mistrust is soaring rightfully so.
In Puerto Rico, the queer community, especially La moniec As
the dolls, are constantly having their lives threatened due to
homophobia and transphobia. Let's keep it a hundred osuna. To
black people was like our modern day dono mad. We
(06:20):
felt seen, heard, represented, Like the authentic and just coolness
of blackness was finally being seen in the contemporary space.
Oh yeah, okay, oh, but like it's really crazy just
looking out and hearing you, seeing the aesthetic of you,
but not really seeing you. Like that's really crazy. So
(06:43):
when his star began to fall, there was a morning
of swords that occurred because all of a sudden, here
we are again with a white superstar taking up so
much space in the genre. And with all of that said,
bad Bunny, a little weird, the newest thing out on
the scene comes out of the woodwork, and it's like,
(07:04):
I love the gay people. With his queer allyship caping
and yo perl sola and painted nails and all of
the other stunts he pulled off, and one thing was undeniable,
the music was exceptional as a black way Latina in media, though,
I saw the void that was being filled and I
(07:25):
was happy for it. I was. I was also just
like damn otro Blanco. Can we get at least I
don't know a pledge of solidarity since he took up
queerness as a cause something that has nothing to do
with him. It matters because argument Ragaton, I love it
(07:45):
so much, Okay, like so much, clearly, but Ragaton has
a history of racism and xenophobia that is profound fail
mihante gestimpreo okay era like it's always going to be
in the room, and me loving Raton means knowing that
(08:09):
sometimes the genre is gonna disrespect me, Like that's something
that I have accepted, Like, if I'm gonna be here,
I just gotta manage my expectations because disrespect is just
part of the program. If I'm gonna be part of
this space aura, knowing that it also means that I'm
not safe in all spaces, Okay, knowing that it means
(08:32):
that I'll be met with white mediocrity, oh my god,
and even overt racism from time to time. And I
have all black people do in some format. So for
those who know, the first Berlinguo podcast in English and
Spanish and the first Regton history I me Gata Gatalina
(08:58):
at liston that I democratized access to real Rayaton history
one on one inspired the loud podcast which I worked on,
the Lakaye, which was nominated for an Emmy Messy Ass Project,
but I'll get into that later. In academics, I mean
they stay in their world. There's been books by doctor
(09:20):
Petri Riveraid, by Wayne Marshall, by Rivera, by a Marizo Lebroun,
people who I all admire and respect. But academics stay
in the world, and entertainment stays in their world. And
I bridge Raggaeton from the academic world into pop culture.
Within all of these spaces, culture, you are welcome. I
(09:43):
realized as a student in twenty seventeen that I looked
online and Raggaeton history online online, which was accessible to
the public. Okay, it was whack. It was whack, It
was limited, it had no nuance, it was a historical
sometimes even, and it was poorly organized. As the first
(10:04):
Rageton historian influencer which ough, so I know, I hate
the word influencer. I hate it so much because I
am the influenced motherfucker, like the gay influencer. I'm not
doing no challenges but I want to one is assigned
in schools across the world inspired students to change their majors,
their masters. I can't tell you how many thesis I'm
(10:27):
in a sally. I'm not the point, I'm really not.
The truth is the work is humanizing people, is understanding
our differences are for two long Panamanians, Jamaicans and Dominicans,
all black, having gotten their flowers in the midst of this,
(10:48):
to the point in history, major gatekeepers have let certain
things lie. Oh, let's talk about it your sola. Why
doesn't Aventura, one of America's biggest boy bands, have a
Latin Grammy exactly bad Bunny embracing quareness was refreshing, okay,
(11:08):
so that nobody gets that confused. It was refreshing. I said,
oh my god, finally it's giving Bde. I won't translate that.
Machaesmo is rampant, okay. And people are lazy in their
homophobia and quaiophobia. Honestly, if you're homophobic, it's like, why
get to DNA, because honestly, we're lit Like you need
(11:30):
some rabel your life, Like what is your problem? Mind? You?
This music came from a political place with Panamanians resisting
against Noriega dictatorship and military and Banama dictators Can you
like imagine that bark was fighting against Rosa Yo's iron
Fist against crime, which allowed for the National Guard to
(11:52):
be posted up in the hood with rifles like can
you imagine? And they you're getting arrested for just playing
the ground Loyamawa and colonialism in general and la Islam,
and then in Dominican Republic, Dominicans were rebuilding their society
and trying to figure out how to really celebrate blackness
(12:15):
on a mainstream wave after the impact, the devastating impact
of thro Heio's dictatorship and it's aftermath. This music can
be deemed pornographic's greedy, all the nasty things, you could
call it whatever you want. At the end of the day,
is still political. It's still something that moved people forward.
(12:38):
So color me surprised. In twenty twenty when George Floyd
was murdered by a cop on camera, shared everywhere internationally
and African Americans are industry protesting and some Latinos were chilling,
bro chilling. Somenos were chilling on my Instagram timeline on
(13:01):
jet skis in the club chilling, and nobody was saying
a word. Eventually that Yankee did, Becky g did. I'll
give them their credit, like there were some artists, but
at large everybody was like, oh, it's just another day.
And I'm like, you gotta be freaking kidding me. Bro.
I felt like it was the true reflection of what
I said earlier. To love reggaeton is to be disrespected
(13:25):
as a black person is to know that sometimes it
will have no regard for the survival of black people,
despite its in its beginnings aura. When Bad Bunny first
stepped out on the scene, it was on SoundCloud, lookusav
and Saven. He was discovered by Luyan. Eventually he put
(13:46):
out which in my opinion, by the way, is like
his best song then and oh to hecta father and
even I mean, let's be for real. The name Bad
Bunny turned everybody's heads because Bad Bunny, like, come on,
it's sexy, let's be real. So to see him pick
(14:09):
up queerness, I was excited. I'm like, all right, all right,
all right, white boy, all right, you straight man, like
thank you, like please say the things. But then he
left black eyelashship on the ground, and that made me understand, he,
like everyone before him and manny after him, will not
(14:31):
see the plight of black people as white people be doing,
like that's just what white people do. The cause was
right there to pick up, and like many Latinos do,
they go not my problem or simply are so detached
from the reality that they look past the problems so
much that they convince themselves it doesn't exist in the
(14:52):
first place, which I mean, how arrogant do you have
to be to convince yourself that racism doesn't exist? Five.
You could play in traffic, you could play with your mom,
but you're not gonna play in our face. Like that's crazy,
mind you. I wouldn't even care, like at all. But
because he picked up the woke cape, right, he picked
(15:13):
it up. We didn't assign it to him. He picked
it up. He said I love the gay people, and
he did that after a black artist star was on
the out mintender Like that's the whole reason why I
have even asked these questions in the first place. And
I left it there. I simply wanted to ask, can
(15:35):
you care about this as well? I figured, you know,
it's not too much since you overhere picking up causes
that got nothing to do with you, like what Coran
has got to do with your bad bunny naha. But
apparently I was wrong. I write in my op ed
remecla he's asked, and he's asked on anti blackness for
a time, and he says, we all can't breathe, and
(16:00):
nobody blinked an eye. We all can't breathe. I mean, bro,
some of y'all can breathe. This is quite literally the point.
So don't know which is why I'm bringing this up
in the first place, But I mean, how Latino is
the answer to like, put everybody's problems together when they're not.
(16:22):
We don't stand up for each other, we don't look
the same, we don't act the same, we're not socialized
the same. So to put up problems as the same,
it's crazy. It's hilarious actually, So I want to be
clear my criticism on him isn't even on him at
this point, but on how Latinos are so easy to
look past the black plight and exchange for symbols and
(16:45):
good vibes. La changkla la goncha all of y'all. Honestly,
y'all exhaust me. In twenty twenty three, three years after
his team scolded me, I will never appreciate that shit
asking me, why didn't I ask about it behind closed doors?
I got to write it in an article. Hello, charge
it to the game. You do this in public, you
(17:06):
get acts in public asifua. More importantly, he final he
most stream artists in the world like all of that
paranoia and honestly racist scolding on me for nothing, and
said he was educating himself Tuslawake and also me a
lot in terms of this because in response to what
he's learned acts in twenty twenty three, he said, I
(17:30):
love Tego now, since one is loving a black person,
one person equivalent to like, oh, I know everything that
has to do with race and history, Like what the hell?
So I don't know? That was weird And Tuslawake on
another note, Benny told me too, I love Tego too.
(17:51):
Now in the midst of this, I hope I y'all
get that I'm simply just asking questions. But I really
am giving this man his flowers because bad Bunny, at
the end of the day, is a progressive. He has
changed the conversation on Puerto Rico, lifted up that beautiful
island in ways that nobody else has ever said respectfully,
(18:12):
like the impact that Bad Bunny has had on PR,
nobody else has had that impact on PR, like gotta
give it to him always and will happily give it
to him. This is not the point I, as a
black person, I can't look past the lack of solidarity
President and Reggaeton in general. Okay, I instead choose to
(18:35):
uplift that which explicitly sustains and supports the black plight.
Ork Pork. It is dramatically worse in comparison for black
people than white people. And if we're smart, we shouldn't
trust any blanchito to cape for us anyways because of oh,
I don't know history, since one in history, like how
(18:58):
the white person fought so hard and soul diligently for
the plight of black people to the point where it's
created actual systemic change. Okay, exactly, Like we need our allies,
and we need those who are willing to do the work,
but it never should be on one person, just so
that's clear. So when I'm invited to a Bad Bunny
(19:20):
symposium before they go Got it Own symposium, or an
interview on NPR with Puerto Rican academics about yet another
bad Bunny course at Yale, which side note, I didn't
even know there was that money bad Bunny courses, So
that interview talking about five, I was like, huh, I'm
not getting my invitations. I don't know. I'm my emails
(19:42):
in my bio for my lectures, me hunter an IVY league.
And the conversation isn't about nuance. Oh my god, that conversation.
It wasn't about nuance or race or colonialism, but of
being featured in the New York Times when none of
us should give it about the New York Times because
their irresponsible coverage of Palestine has contributed to the genocide
(20:07):
over there. We supposedly understand the parallel of struggle between
Puerto Rico and Palatina. Bro the plot is lost. The
plot is lost. The plot is lost. Cloud chasing is pervasive,
and I'm removing myself like if that's csol okay yo machito.
(20:28):
The funny thing is I bought tego can syllabus dot
com years ago, years ago, after the Bad Bunny Symposium,
and since then I bought it, I didn't renew it
and went back into the market, and then then went
back to regular price, and I just rebought it the
same day again after the NPR interview, because I just
(20:50):
couldn't believe A that nobody bought it.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
In B.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
I couldn't believe that A nobody got it, and b
A Navi and Nadi Sola Rio Annalisa Bereo with the
darkskin black man Diego who spoke to blackness and la
Isla years ago. Loisa centered it bridged in more ways
(21:19):
than is what has ever been spoken about, gave flowers
to Dominicans before it was trendy, had no one's bars
on being the enemy of the state, back when nobody
wanted to be quote unquote that deep Am. There are
pearls and cons of being a reaton historian, but especially
(21:40):
one that is Panamanian, Jamaican, dark skin queer. I quite
literally encompassed everything that any xenophobe, homophobe or racist hates
like Yo Sola gonna become. But you know what, well,
I absolutely am actively working towards what I just Monetarily.
(22:01):
The work is bigger than me. Black people are treated
as disposable, are polite trendy, our existence a non priority.
But to that, I say comodaveteal Carajo. Blackness is beautiful,
even in its simplest state, is a form of existence,
of resistance, rebellion because it challenges everything we're taught to
(22:25):
center because of white supremacy and the everlasting effects of colonialism.
So with the Tego syllabus, can't believe I'm doing this.
I hope to shift culture again in collaboration. I don't
want to do all of this on my own. By
centering one of the most important black figures in Dragaton history,
(22:47):
the legacy of Black Latinos and Regaton, which includes the
legacy of white supremacy in Regaton, and most importantly, an
honest take on the parallels of race in the diaspora
and culture really look like what it really looks like
because today, like Oi, LIKEO, the plot is lost, Bro,
(23:10):
the plot is focused on symbolism, which historically has never
saved anybody marginalized. Let's move the needle further, Yevmi and
sign up to the syllabus. They're bad, Bonnie. This isn't
(23:31):
a clop back, This isn't a think piece wrapped in
Twitter length pot takes. This is me face to face
with the cultural giant you've become trying to sit with
the contradictions of what you present and what you've neglected
and the beauty that you bring. When I started pa
hed one on one and later the Goalagata, it was
because the stories that existed about our genre, our culture
(23:55):
were not just incomplete, they were wrong. They were erased,
they were I eluded, they were whitewashed. The global rise
of reggaeton came with the silence around who built it
Afro Caribbean people, Panamanians, Jamaicans, Black Boriquas. So I did
the work. I pieced together the fragmented histories. I made
(24:16):
it make sense. I built a bridge between us, the marginalizes,
and the culture we built. And I did it without
a machine behind me, without the cot sign of those
who hold the keys. And here's where you come in, Benito.
I've critiqued to you before, back in twenty twenty, during
the peak of Black Lives Matter protests, you were silent,
(24:36):
and when you finally spoke, you said, we all can't breathe.
And that really wasn't it. It felt like a dismissal
of your specific pain. Then it felt like a dismissal
of our specific pain. Then came the time in of
you in twenty twenty three, where again your response to
Alfa Latinidad lacked depth. In other words, NA, it wasn't malicious,
(25:00):
but it reveals something real, a gap in understanding that you,
with your platform, have the responsibility to close. But it
ain't all critique. I've given you your floater, your challenged norms.
You gave Dominican artists there shine when no one else did.
I will always be grateful for that as someone who
loves Lodomi's. You've raised political consciousness about Puerto Rico, fuckre
(25:26):
and colonialism. You skip the US on your latest tour
and reminded fans that Puerto Rico isn't a pit stop,
it's the center you move culture period. Never mind all
the work that you're doing with your foundation. I'm paying attention.
So why do I feel this ache? Why do I
feel othered by your team, your fans and sometimes you
(25:49):
pause slight. It's the kind of ache that comes from
watching someone eat at a table you help build, but
never getting offered a seat. It's a silence when you
know someone's watching your work but won't name it. It's
the way black women in this space, especially those of
us with deeper seeds are used as reference points but
(26:11):
rarely cited. I'm not asking for retweet. I'm asking for accountability,
for intentionality, for a better future where Afro Latinos from
all corners of the Caribbean are central, not supplemental, because
we made this ship. So this is for you, Benito,
not to condemn, to speak the truth that gets swallowed
(26:35):
in the noise of fandom, algorithm and industry politics. This
episode isn't just about one man. It's about power, it's
about proximity, it's about legacy, and it's about how we
write our own stories when the world tries to erase
us from the footnotes. So you got I'm super excited
(27:26):
because it's a rappy little where I stopped yapping and
it's from one of you. This week, I am super
excited to be speaking with none other than Joins. Are
you Willie? Are you doing?
Speaker 2 (27:40):
I am good? How are you good?
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Good?
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Good?
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Thanks for being here, rappy litle dey may. Are you
ready to answer some quick questions? Yes, okay, let's get
right into it first and foremost in this episode, as
you know, we're talking about call that a little bit girl.
It's a new era. So with us, I want to
know what is your experience for in academia.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
I was I went to undergrad at Wesleyan University, and
I remember I wrote wasn't long enough, So I don't
know why I'm saying I remember, but I did write
a chapter of my thesis on j Noah, which she's
not a kadone artist, but it did include your work,
which I think was important in shaping my chapter and
(28:26):
talking about a black Dominican artist and how she was
presenting herself to the world. And I think with that
in mind, I'm able to look forward to thinking about
other dondos or artists in the industry who are like
can be brought into academia to discuss the impact of
the genre into our culture.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Thank you so much. First of all, thank you for
including your work that means a lot, which I mean
perfect segue into the next question. How did you discover
ra like in your words? Like what iss impact important?
Like speaking as a student, I'm super like interested in
(29:14):
hearing your take.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
So I first discovered on Twitter and then I followed
your work for a really long time before we met
each other. Because you were supposed to come to Wesleyan,
and even though that did not happen, I think we
built a beautiful relationship. And after that I interviewed you
(29:37):
for my Jinah chapter, uh, and that was really fun
because I got to talk to you, and I think
what was fun about that is seeing your impact like
come to shape in my own work, and that impact
being like the fact that you're doing this public public
(29:58):
facing Sorry, let me public facing. I'm looking for another word,
but I'm forgetting it. Public scholarship, Yes, that's the word.
I'm yeah. So I'm thinking about the impact of the
(30:19):
public facing scholarship that you're doing and the fact that
not only does it stay within the pockets of academia,
which we might think of academia as it being a
really large field, but in actuality it isn't. And I
think sometimes things can exist in a vacuum, whereas this
public facing scholarship that you're doing, I think a lot
(30:40):
of people can consume it and understand it. And it's
also bilingual, so that reaches double the amount of people,
which I think is obviously really important to thinking about
Regato and it's significance.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
I appreciate that girl, and in Whage case, Okay, and
now you are studying congratulations means thank you. What is
your biggest takeaway from Raaton in the academic space.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
I think one of the biggest takeaways is the fact
that I think culturally sometimes we perceiveadon to be non
meaning or like it doesn't have any meaning, it doesn't
hold any meaning. But then when you actually look at
the artists and what they're saying about their work, not
just the songs the lyrics that are being sung, you
(31:32):
can understand the real impact that the genre has. And
I think through the academic space you're able to discover
those nuances that may not be there like just in
the song, but then you're able to dive deeper and
actually analyze the things that are being said and how
they're being said, and through that you can again think
(31:55):
about that impact culturally Thatgaton is making. That maybe people
who do not like and think that sule sized classier
or chattized classier are not paying attention to those things,
but we are, Well, is there like.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
A wind passing by or like.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
A there's an air purified? I think that might be
it or the.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Okay, because I can already imagine my audio editor cussing
me out.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Nothing that should be a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Okay, So that's that I'm doing this for you and
for me and for you not to kill me. Okay.
Re asking the question, what is your biggest takeaway from
hagathon in the academic space?
Speaker 2 (32:48):
With all of that, Si, yes, I think one of
the biggest takeaways from nagaton in the academic space is
the fact that the genre has been maybe misconceptualized as
a genre that doesn't tell us anything about our culture
or is not a space where artists are having a
cultural impact or are thinking about things in a grander
(33:11):
scheme of things rather than just like beehreo and dancing.
And I think through the academic space we have been
able to dive deeper and analyzetong in a in a
way that shows its meaningful impact and not just our culture,
but just like the way that we think about creative
fields and how people are able to express their morals
(33:33):
and their ethics through the genre.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
And with that said, speaking about relevance and all these things,
talk to me about the cultural relevance of dekleron.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
I think when you asked that question, my first thought
was thinking about my childhood and growing up in the
dr and as a little girl knowing who was without
knowing who he was, like knowing his lyrics but not
knowing who this person was and knowing what he looked like.
But again, who is this? And I think like for
(34:10):
a lot of people, maybe he was just someone that
was always in the back back of our childhood and
like shaping those memories. But it wasn't until growing up
that you actually realize who Tego was, and like the
cultural icon that he is and the importance of him
in Regatong and in Latini Dad, and the fact that
(34:32):
he was a proud black Puerto Rican in the in
the movement, like the Head movement is just really important
to think about. And I think maybe we need to
start discussing him more because I think maybe the hype
has dived down, and I don't think that should be right.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
I agree, girl, That's why I'm starting to syllabus like
I am happy for certain artists in their existence, but
I'm also like, oh my god, I got that one
on what I said, the cultural relevance of Bad Bunny.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
I am a hardcore by Bunny fan. I think in
the way that someone like my brother who's six years
older than me, grew up with theego. I have been
kind of impacted in that way by Bad Bunny, even
though it's very different the work that they're doing. I
think Bad Bunny has become more cultural, more relevant culturally
(35:31):
because of the work that he's doing in talking about
the independence of Puerto Rico from the United States and
you know, the residency, you see a lot of people
wearing their Puerto Rican flags really proudly, and I think
with that you can see the impact that an artist
(35:51):
can have in political movements. And he obviously is not
the first one to do it, but I think we're
seeing it now to a new scale because of the
relevance that he also has on the American market. I
don't know. I think it's interesting to think about, like
the comparison between Tego and Bad Bunny. It's like, obviously
(36:13):
the Goo is a black Puerto Rican and Bad Bunny isn't.
And then I lost my train of thought. But I
don't even think that was a finished sentence.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
I think you're a good girl. It's like, I think
we're following where you're going. And I would agree, like
I'm a Bad Bunny fan to contrary to popular belief
and the way that he's putting up for Puerto Rico
is breathtaking, So we can honestly leave it at that,
because that in and of itself is powerful, and like,
(36:45):
I couldn't be happier for Puerto Rican people that they
have such a champion. And I said it various times
like I feel like if every country had a Bad Bunny,
the world would be a better place. I believe that.
So yeah, thank you for your your intake on that.
And with that said them, there are now more than
I think the number five if I'm not if I'm
(37:05):
not mistaken, Bad Bunny courses and universities across the country. Well,
Prince then Yale, what's your take on that.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
I think it's interesting that Bad Bunny, as someone who
is I guess now it's like still on his peak,
is having classes being dedicated to him. I would I
would have assumed that that would come later on in
his career, but it's interesting to see that that's happening
now while he's like, you know, this super mega star.
(37:40):
I think, you know, it's really interesting to dedicate a
class to Bad Bunny. But I think that needs to
be thought out really well, because what is the class
going to be before. Is it about his artistry or
is it about the political impact that he's having? And
I think these classes might have students maybe with the
(38:03):
misconception that this is like a fan club where we're
just analyzing Bad Bunny solely by himself. But we need
to start thinking about what are the real implications of
talking about him and idealizing him, and where are the
good things that we can say about Bad Bunny And
where are the things that maybe we can talk and
(38:25):
disagree with about how he's moving aka him for example,
not saying anything about Godz that to this day, him
not saying anything about Black Lives Matter in twenty twenty.
I think those are things that we need to take
into consideration, while also maybe talking about the relevance that
he has. I mean, we can't just like admire him
and not criticize some of the things that he's doing
(38:49):
rather not doing.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
I have no worse at that said, how do you
identify and do you think? Sorry? How do you identify?
Do you think academic spaces via regaton? Okay? How do
you identify culturally? And do you think? Sorry? I'm like,
what is this question? How do I identify culturally? And do
(39:12):
you think academic spaces via regaton are prime Are they
prime for racial consciousness? Like what is that within the
nature of it? Why or why not?
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Hmm. I'm a proud Dominican Afro Dominican period, I don't
know if academic spaces are prime for racial consciousness. I
also don't know Ifton is prime for racial consciousness at
this point. I mean the fact that like Diego Card,
(39:46):
like I said earlier, is still like underrated to some degree.
And I talked about enough like yes, bad Bunny brought
in a large crowd into a reggaton movement, let's say,
or not movement, but into the genre people listening to
because of him. Let's say, let's educate those people on
who is And I don't know if either of those
(40:09):
two spaces are equipped fully to talk about racial consciousness
within the genre, because I think in academic spaces it
can get complicated because we can we think that we
need to like pake the perfect representation of Reggaton, for example,
(40:29):
to be able to talk about the genre and not
talk about the characters that maybe have done things that
are not politically like appropriate, I guess, or you know,
like we we take the people's downfalls. Well, no, what
(40:50):
am I trying to say? Well, I think the first
part was good, but.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Can we say it?
Speaker 2 (40:57):
Yeah. I think within academic spaces we build someone up
in a way that maybe we cannot criticize them. And
I think it's the same in Herega Doong, Like if
you criticize an artist, then you are a hater, which
may not be true. You just want maybe that person
to be a better person and a better representation of
(41:20):
the movement. And I think, yeah, I don't know if
either spaces are fully equipped, but I hope that we
can begin to make strivees at that because I think
looking at Hega Doong and looking at racial consciousness through
Higadong is really important because I think it will highlight
to a lot of people the importance of the Spanish
(41:42):
speaking Caribbean to Latini dad, and I think is one
of those ways.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Not perfectly sign beautiful sign. And so to bring this
into like a contemporary space, I would like to ask you, like,
if you can put two artists on agaton song dead
or alive, who would it be And what's the vibe?
Speaker 2 (42:06):
All right, the vibe? I don't know, They're gonna have
to work it out in the studio, but I don't no, no,
you're the a NR.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Is this romantic? Is this money? And so so like also,
my girl, you gotta do the job, like no, all right.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
Let me lock in. I think personally that I in
the contemporary side, I'm thinking about j Noah because she
I don't think she's ever done aga dong, And I
think maybe through people, a lot more people can get
to know her and her talent. I mean, I adore
her as an artist. I mean ever in a chapter
(42:44):
about her. My pisis so clearly I'm a fan. And
then I was thinking of someone who is maybe a
proud black woman from the Caribbean, and my mind went
to Sealia Cruz and maybe the vibe is empowerment. Maybe
the vibe is talking about black womanhood in the Caribbean,
(43:07):
and maybe that's a little too like political, but like,
I think it'll be fun to see them talk about
what that is. Celia from a you know, like earlier
in time and J Noah like talking about that now,
and the fact that one is Cuban, one is Dominican.
There's a lot of conversations that could be had about
(43:29):
what black womanhood looks like in the Spanish Caribbean.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
Word up. I like hares asuka as.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
You yes, yes, okay.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
And lastly, there's a lot going on in Dragaton outside
of the artists I haven't mentioned today. What is your
hot take on what's going on in Dragaton right now?
Speaker 2 (43:53):
My het take is that some people need to stop
doing thembo. Leave that to the Minnicans please, I'm so sorry,
like slease for real, Who's Who's Who's people's girl?
Speaker 1 (44:06):
Gee?
Speaker 2 (44:07):
She needs to stop? Okay, she needs to.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
I blow up?
Speaker 2 (44:12):
She needs to stop. Oh fediatic cool? Whatever? The new one?
I have no idea. Needs to stop. It needs to stop.
Should have been left in the studio.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
Okay, wait pause, pause, time out, time out. Okay. First
of all, I didn't hear trota, so I can't comment
on it because how am I going to say something?
And I don't even know? But okay, so I have
to follow that up with the question, because this has
been a conversation. Do you think that she copied Bad Bunny?
Like do you think that's possible?
Speaker 2 (44:47):
Like? Really, I don't think she copied Bad Bunny, but
I do think that the timing is really interesting because
you have Ralejandro and Bad Bunny, who are the two
most popular a Rican artists, doing these albums that are
like culturally introspective and highlighting Bombay music and things from
(45:10):
their country that people are not used to Withinton, and
then she comes out with this new album. I wouldn't
say it's copying, but maybe it's like I don't like
looking over and seeing, oh, maybe that's cool and then
doing it but not. I wouldn't say it's directly copying,
but I don't know. I think she's interesting. I think
(45:33):
she's interesting, Like this whole what's what's the word that
she said that she came up with?
Speaker 1 (45:39):
Come on, now, Okay, she didn't come up with a word.
She didn't say that that was j Lis Puerto Rican
gave her the word, So like, what are we gonna do?
You know what I mean? Like at that point, because
it's like gave it her and I'm like, oh, well,
I can't really argue, like if you're gonna give away
your things, well then you know what I mean. Legal.
(46:01):
I so this is one thing I'll say and I
try not to chime and d but I think that
because in her words, she said that she wanted this
to be the most Latina album ever. And I was like,
I don't know what that means, but I think that she,
you know, at the end of the day, she's the
biggest is I'll give her that. Like it's true, you know,
(46:23):
like she's been working hard, and I think that even
with all the awards that she's gotten, it's like she's
trying to solidify her place in history as like I
call it like a Latina figure, you know what I mean.
So I feel like this was like a like her
attempt at doing that, like as a oh my god,
sel yeah, like in history said it was like one
(46:45):
of the biggest SASA artists. I feel like with her,
she's like she's like not trying to brand herself as
like one of the biggest reggaeton artists, but it's one
of the biggest Latin artists. But the thing is, it's
like I'm confused as to like That's when I started questioning,
like why don't you try to bring yourself I was
like one of the biggest artists. It's like, does she
feel like she did that or is it that she's
(47:06):
moved on from that? And she's like, you know, speaking
and I don't know I guess that's like what my
where my brain goes like, I don't get why, but
I have a lot of thoughts. I haven't heard the
music yet, so I'm shut up with that said girl,
thank you so much for joining me. Yeah. My Son
(47:32):
for La Flores is an I Heart Media production co
executive produced by of Shak Easy Media. Love You Noia,
produced by Grace Gonsales The Ghetto Mucho. A shout out
to Sebastian Payan, what would I do without you? Shout
out to my assistant producers, Kayla, I listen to Naomi
(47:52):
as Sarello. Shout out to music by Habbi Vibes and Elomina.
I'm your host, Lagata see you right, hereata next week
and I Heart Radio Up are wary Listen
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