Ep#16 (Dear Bad Bunny) Tego Calderon Syllabus ft. Yohely & Laysha

For those who know, my work as a Reggaeton Historian has shifted culture in Academia, the entertainment industry and the culture at large. After critiquing Bad Bunny for 5 years, and the uptick in classes he's inspiring even in the IVY leagues, this is my LAST take on the impact of Perreo 101 on Academia and the need for a Tego Calderon Syllabus...analyzing race in Latinidad & Perreo de verdad. featuring College Students Yohely Compres of Yale & Laysha Gonzalez of UT Austin.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Me Hantherlene that this episode, I want to talk to
you about my creation of the teg syllas. And before
I get into that, let me give you some context here.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
Yo.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
I remember the first time that one time, the one
time I saw theego sing live. I was lucky. I
was a student in New York and he sang at
a nightclub in Manhattan, Syama. I just remember Cardi B
joined him on stage, and I thought to myself, like, bro,
this is so dope and that makes complete sense. Cardi

(00:44):
B and Theego on the stage, like come on. Cardi
had just blown up from love and hip hop and
was really tapped into all things culture and as a
fan I was living growing up, I had thirty first cousins, yes,
three year old thirty and my family be outside and
most of my cousins are Primo Edmano's and aunt's Titi Mammy's,

(01:08):
in other words, were close. They raised me. My aunt,
in particular, Gladisa is the one I'm closest to my
mom's youngest sister. She also had the most amount of kids,
six and my point is she was the most hip.
I remember being in the back of her red Ford expedition,

(01:29):
a car that could fit like seven of my cousins
and her in the front seat with Mommy, my cousin, Macho,
who's my age, Yadita Eli, evely my sister. We'd all
be Singingasa or Enemy the Lawasi or fighting her to
run it back to or or Loisa. Clarisa played theego

(01:57):
alongside her salso tapes and thinking back, I never realized
the curation of it all, keeping it ethnic black like unambiguously.
Back then, there was so much on to choose from,
and I was a kid. I'm talking lime more days,
MSN Messenger, me handing MySpace, okay, saving, saving and my family.

(02:22):
I grew up with a pro black understanding of my identity,
and it was simple, I'm black and that's beautiful, complicado
or something that I had to unpack. It was just
how I saw things, never having desires to bleach my
skin or look like anybody else. That I was right

(02:43):
there next to those deemed desirable, because I too was desirable. Touche.
So when I heard Tago rap about while growing up
in the hood, I figured, you know, hell yeah, as

(03:03):
much as I could comprehend, because again, I was a preteen,
I Wasnabamaca. I tell you all of that to say,
the Regaton Diego has been a part of my life
that tita as I grew older and Pereo expanded with
hits from Joliran din hettied Father. It was generally the

(03:26):
happiest part of my childhood to go to school, witness
these releases and celebrate Hagaton culture in Boston the way
that we did. I truly feel bad for gen Zgo.
I know, I know y'all are the future and whatnot,
but this time was magic. Experiencing this was magic. When
I decided to go to college. That stayed with me

(03:47):
as I was in this dormitory and classes with all
these Gringo gringos yr gringam in Tiende. Reggaeton isn't just
a bunch of random witty phrases. We're cool beats. It's
a lifestyle and imperfect one one made by black Latinos,
Black Latinos and Reggaeton history spent from the late eighties

(04:09):
from in Henidan, but really it Trombo and most notably
Tego Dono Man, Guardian Lenos, La Sista GiB Queen, Rimaki,
Pati Man Angel does Jo Randino, Rookie Ery Lover, then
for La Factoria, Don Miguelo, and Todaysa sage Osuna so

(04:32):
many more, despite whitewashing in the mainstream, Okay, because let's
be real about that, which all that means, by the way,
is that there's a deliberate preference of white artists over
black and representation, business deals, opportunities, respect and legacy. Black
Latinos have been present throughout time despite it all. Okay,

(04:56):
just because we're not in the headlines don't mean that
we don't exist. So I'm imagine my surprise when in
the mid two twenty tens and artists with green eyes
and locks calls himself negritojo Clado was taking over the radio. I,
like other Afro Latinos, thought, oh shit, we're finally being

(05:17):
spoken to on a consistent basis. There was they like
get the Magata. And then and when Ama Massamla and Dalis,
I felt so senior. Half of it wasn't even ragaton,
but it was so dope that we didn't care. Okay,
the Latin trap was immaculate. And then in twenty nineteen,

(05:41):
Kevin Frett was murdered and allegations are flying left and right.
Mistrust is soaring rightfully so in Puerto Rico, the queer community,
especially La mouniec As the Dolls, are constantly having their
lives threatened due to homophobia and transphobia. Let's keep it
one hundred. So to black people was like our modern

(06:03):
day donoh mad. We felt seen, heard, represented, Like the
authentic and just coolness of blackness was finally being seen
in the contemporary space. Oh yeah, okay, oh, but like
it's really crazy just looking out and hearing you, seeing

(06:24):
the aesthetic of you, but not really seeing you. Like
that's really crazy. So when his star began to fall,
there was a morning of swords that occurred because all
of a sudden, here we are again with a white
superstar taking up so much space in the genre. And
with all of that said, bad Bunny, a little weird,

(06:45):
the newest thing out on the scene comes out of
the woodwork and is like, I love the gay people.
With his queer allyship caping and yo pa hel sola
and painted nails and all of the other stunts he
pulled off, and one thing was undeniable. The music was exceptional.
As a Black Bay Latina in media, though I saw

(07:08):
the void that was being filled and I was happy
for it. I was. I was also just like damn
otro Blanco, can we get at least I don't know
a pledgure of solidarity since he took up queerness as
a cause something that has nothing to do with him,
it matters because argive me Ragaeton. I love it so much, okay,

(07:32):
like so much, clearly, but Ragaton has a history of
racism and xenophobia that is profoundeso, okay, like it's always
going to be in the room. And me loving Rayton

(07:53):
means knowing that sometimes the genre is gonna disrespect me,
Like that's something that I have accepted. Like, if I'm
gonna be here, I just gotta manage my expectations because
disrespect is just part of the program. If I'm gonna
be part of this space aura knowing that it also
means that I'm not safe in all spaces, Okay, knowing

(08:17):
that it means that I'll be met with white mediocrity,
oh my god, and even overt racism from time to time.
And I have all black people do in some format.
So for those who know, the first Berlingual podcast in
English and Spanish, and the first on Reggaeton history, I

(08:40):
me Gata Gatalina at Liston. I democratize access to real
Ragaton history inspired the loud podcast which I worked on,
the Lakaye, which was nominated for an Emmy Messy Ass Project,
but I'll get into that later. In academics, I mean
they stay in their world. There's been books by doctor

(09:03):
Petro Riveraid, by Wayne Marshall, by Rivera, by a Mariso
le Broun, people who I all admire and respect. But
academics stay in that world, and entertainment stays in their world.
And I bridge Raggaeton from the academic world into pop culture.
Within all of these spaces, culture, you are welcome. I

(09:27):
realized as a student in twenty seventeen that I looked
online and Raggaton History online online, which was accessible to
the public. Okay, it was whack. It was whack, It
was limited, it had no nuance, it was a historical
sometimes even, and it was poorly organized. As the first

(09:48):
Ragaton historian influencer, which ough so I not. I hate
the word influencer. I hate it so much because I
am the influenced motherfucker like the ga influencer. I'm not
doing no challenges, but I want to. One is assigned
in schools across the world inspired students to change their majors,
their masters. I can't tell you how many thesis I'm

(10:10):
in a savage. I'm not the point, I'm really not.
The truth is the work is humanizing people, is understanding
our differences are for two long Panamanians, Jamaicans and Dominicans,
all black, having gotten their flowers in the midst of this,

(10:31):
to the point in history, major gatekeepers have let certain
things lie. Oh, let's talk about it, your soloka. Why
doesn't Aventura, one of America's biggest boy bands, have a
Latin Grammy exactly by Bunny embracing quareness was refreshing, Okay,

(10:52):
so that nobody gets that confused. It was refreshing. I said,
oh my god, finally it's giving Bde. I won't translate that.
Machismo is rampant, okay. And people are lazy in their
homophobia and quaophobia. Honestly, if you're homophobic, it's like, why DNA,
because honestly we're lit Like you need some Rabel in

(11:14):
your life, Like what is your problem? Mind? You this
music came from a political place with Panamanians resisting against
Noriega's dictatorship and military and Banama dictators Can you like
imagine that Barriqua was fighting against Rosa Yo's iron fist
against crime, which allowed for the National Guard to be

(11:36):
posted up in the hood with rifles like can you imagine?
And they case you're getting arrested for just playing or
underground Loyamawa and colonialism in general and la Islam, and
then in Dominican Republic, Dominicans were rebuilding their society and
trying to figure out how to really celebrate blackness on

(11:58):
a mainstream wave after the impact, the devastating impact of
throw Heio's dictatorship and it's aftermath. This music can be
deemed pornographic, greedy, all the nasty things, you could call
it whatever you want. At the end of the day,
is still political. It's still something that moved people forward.

(12:21):
So color me surprised. In twenty twenty when George Floyd
was murdered by a cop on camera shared everywhere internationally
and African Americans are in the street protesting, and some
Latinos were chilling, bro chilling, Some Praga dondos were chilling
on my Instagram timeline. I saw Heggae Donado's on jet

(12:44):
skis in the club chilling, and nobody was saying a word.
Eventually that Yankee did, Becky g did. I'll give them
their credit, Like there were some artists, but at large
everybody was like, oh, it's just another day, and I'm like,
you gotta be freaking kidding you, bro. I felt like
it was the true reflection of what I said earlier.

(13:05):
To love ragat is to be disrespected as a black
person is to know that sometimes it will have no
regard for the survival of black people, despite its in
its beginnings. Aurah. When Bad Bunny first stepped out on
the scene, it was on SoundCloud, lookus sav and Salven.

(13:25):
He was discovered by lu Yan. Eventually he put out
I Got which, in my opinion, by the way, is
like his best song then, and oh to Hector and
father and even I mean, let's be for real. The

(13:46):
name Bad Bunny turned everybody's heads because Bad Bunny, like,
come on, it's sexy, let's be real. So to see
him pick up Queerness, I was excited. I'm like, all right,
all right, all right, white boy, all right, you straight
man like thank you, like please say the things. But
then he left black eyelishship on the ground, and that

(14:10):
made me understand he, like everyone before him and many
after him, will not see the plight of black people
as white people be doing, like that's just what white
people do. The cause was right there to pick up,
and like many Latinos do, they go not my problem
or simply are so detached from the reality that they

(14:34):
look past the problems so much that they convince themselves
it doesn't exist in the first place, which I mean,
how arrogant do you have to be to convince yourself
that racism doesn't exist in twenty twenty five. You could
play in traffic, could play with your mom, but you're
not gonna play in our face Like that's crazy, mind you.
I wouldn't even care, like at all. But because he

(14:56):
picked up the woke cape, right, he picked it up.
We didn't assign it to him. He picked it up.
He said I love the gay people, and he did
that after a black artist star was on the out,
Like that's the whole reason why I have even asked
these questions in the first place. And I left it there.

(15:19):
I simply wanted to ask can you care about this
as well? I figured, you know, it's not too much
since you overhere picking up causes that got nothing to
do with you, like what corn has got to do
with you? Bad bunny, nada. But apparently I was wrong.
I write in my op ed he's asked on anti
blackness for a time, and he says we all can't breathe,

(15:44):
and nobody blinked an eye. We all can't breathe. I mean, bro,
some of y'all can breathe. This is quite literally the
point now, which is why I'm bringing this up in
the first place. But I mean, how Latino is that
answer to, like, put everybody's problems together when they're not.

(16:06):
We don't stand up for each other. We don't look
the same, we don't act the same, we're not socialize
the same. So to put up problems as the same,
it's crazy. It's hilarious actually, So I want to be
clear my criticism on him isn't even on him at
this point, but on how Latinos are so easy to
look past the black plight and exchange for symbols and

(16:29):
good vibes. La changkla la gon cha. All of y'all honestly,
y'all exhaust me. In twenty twenty three, three years after
his team scolded me, I will never appreciate that shit
asking me. Why didn't I ask about it behind closed doors?
I got to write it in an article. Hello, charge
it to the game. You do this in public, you

(16:51):
get act in public. I see Finona. More importantly, he
final he most stream artists in the world like all
of that paranoia and honestly, race isclding on me forhing
and said he was educating himself, Tusawake and also Milan
in terms of this because in response to what he's learned,

(17:12):
actsd In twenty twenty three, he said, I love Tego now,
since one is loving a black person one person equivalent
to like, oh, I know everything that has to do
with race and history, Like what the hell? So I
don't know? That was weird? And Tusawake, on another note,
Benny tolt me too. I love Tego too. Now. In

(17:36):
the midst of this, I hope I y'all get that
I'm simply just asking questions, but I really am giving
this man his flowers because bad Bunny, at the end
of the day, is a progressive. He has changed the
conversation on Puerto Rico lifted up that beautiful island in
ways that nobody else has ever said, respectfully, like the

(17:56):
impact that Bad Bunny has had on PR. Nobody else
has had that impact on PR, like gotta give it
to him always and will happily give it to him.
This is not the point I, as a black person,
I can't look past the lack of solidarity present and
reggaeton in general. Okay, I instead choose to uplift that

(18:20):
of which explicitly sustains and supports the black plight. Bork borka.
It is dramatically worse in comparison for black people than
white people. And if we're smart, we shouldn't trust any
blanchito to cap for us anyways, because of oh, I
don't know history, since one in history, like as the

(18:43):
white person fought so hard and so diligently for the
plight of black people to the point where it's created
actual systemic change. Okay, exactly, Like we need our allies,
and we need those who are willing to do the work,
but it never should be on one person, just so
that's clear. So when I'm invited to a Bad Bunny

(19:04):
symposium before the Callern Symposium, or an interview on NPR
with Puerto Rican academics about yet another Bad Bunny course
at Yale, which side note, I didn't even know there
was that money bad Bunny courses, so that interview talking
about five I was like, huh, I'm not getting my invitations,

(19:25):
I don't know my emails in my bio for my lectures,
me Hunter an IVY league. And the conversation isn't about
nuance or raised or colonialism, but of being featured in
the New York Times, when none of us should give
a damn about the New York Times because their irresponsible
coverage of Palestine has contributed to the genocide over there.

(19:48):
We supposedly understand the parallel of struggle between Puerto Rico
and Palatina. Bro the plot is lost, The plot is lost.
The plot is lost. Cloud chasing is pervasive, and I'm
removing myself like if that's c O l okay yamachito.

(20:09):
The funny thing is I bought Tego casillabus dot com
years ago, years ago, after the Bad Bunny Symposium, and
since then I bought it, I didn't renew it and
went back into the market and then then went back
to regular price. And I just rebought it the same
day again after the NPR interview, because I couldn't believe

(20:31):
that a nobody bought it. And b Anadi and Nadi,
Sola Oko Rio Annalisa Behroo with the darskined black man
Diego who spoke to blackness and la Isla years ago.
Loisa centered it bridged salsa in more ways than is

(20:52):
what has ever been spoken about. Gave flowers to Dominicans
before it was trendy, had no one's bars. I'm being
the enemy of the state back when nobody wanted to
be quote unquote that deep. I mean, there are pros
and cons of being Aton historian, but especially one that

(21:13):
is Panamanian, Jamaican, dark skinned queer. I quite literally encompass
everything that any xenophobe, homophobe or racist hates, like you're
so like gonna become bl But you know what, well,
I absolutely am actively working towards what I deserve monetarily.

(21:34):
The work is bigger than me. Black people are treated
as disposable, are polite, trendy, our existence a non priority.
But to that, I say, blackness is beautiful, even in
its simplest state is a form of existence of resistance

(21:54):
rebellion because it challenges everything we're taught to center because
of supremacy and the everlasting effects of colonialism. So with
the Tego Caderon syllabus, can't believe I'm doing this, I
hope to shift culture again in collaboration. I don't want
to do all of this on my own. By centering

(22:16):
one of the most important black figures in Dragaton history,
the legacy of Black Latinos and Regaton, which includes the
legacy of white supremacy in Reggaeton, and most importantly, an
honest take on the parallels of race in the diaspora
and culture really look like what it really looks like?

(22:37):
Because today, like Oi, like Ammito, the plot is lost, Bro,
the plot is focused on symbolism, which historically has never
saved anybody marginalized. Let's move the needle further, Yevanami and
sign up to the Tego Caleron syllabus. I know, I know,

(22:59):
I am. Yeah, put on me hands that I'll be
right back after these messages. Take a not somewhere else

(23:48):
there by, Bonnie. This isn't a clapback. This isn't a
thing piece wrapped in twitter length pot takes. This is
me face to face with the cultural giant you've become,
trying to sit with the contradictions of what you present
and what you've neglected and the beauty that you bring.
When I started by hed one on one and later

(24:08):
Regato Gollagata, it was because the stories that existed about
our genre, our culture were not just incomplete, they were wrong.
They were erased, they were diluted, they were whitewashed. The
global rise of reggaeton came with the silence around who
built it Afro Caribbean people, Panamanians, Jamaicans, Black Boudriquas. So

(24:30):
I did the work. I pieced together the fragmented histories.
I made it make sense. I built a bridge between us,
the marginalizes, and the culture we built. And I did
it without a machine behind me, without the coast sign
of those who hold the keys. And here's where you
come in, Benito. I've critiqued to you before, back in

(24:50):
twenty twenty, during the peak of Black Lives Matter protests,
you were silent, and when you finally spoke, you said,
we all can't breathe, and that really wasn't it. It
felt like a dismissal of our specific pain. Then came
the time in of you in twenty twenty three, where
again your response to Alfa Latinidad lacked depth. In other words,

(25:12):
it wasn't malicious, but it revealed something real, a gap
in understanding that you, with your platform, have the responsibility
to close. But it ain't all critique. I've given you
your floorter your challenged norms. You gave Dominican artists there
shine when no one else did. I will always be
grateful for that as someone who loves Lodomi's. You've raised

(25:36):
political consciousness about Puerto Rico, evoking erre and colonialism. You
skip the US on your latest tour and reminded fans
that Puerto Rico isn't a pit stop, it's the center
you move culture period. Never mind all the work that
you're doing with your foundation. I'm paying attention. So why

(25:56):
do I feel this ache? Why do I feel othered
by your team, your fan and sometimes you. It's the
kind of ache that comes from watching someone eat at
a table you help build, but never getting offered a seat.
It's a silence when you know someone's watching your work,
but won't name it. It's the way black women in

(26:18):
this space, especially those of us with deeper seeds, are
used as reference points but rarely cited. I'm not asking
for a retweet. I'm asking for accountability, for intentionality, for
a better future where Afro Latinos from all corners of
the Caribbean are central, not supplemental, because we made this shit.

(26:38):
So this is for you, Benito, not to condemnsa to
speak the truth that gets swallowed in the noise of fandom,
algorithm and industry politics. This episode isn't just about one man.
It's about power, it's about proximity, it's about legacy, and

(26:58):
it's about how we write our own stories when the
world tries to erase us from the footnotes. I know,
I know, I know, it's getting good. But we'll be
right back with right after these messages, I said, gett
somewhere around.

Speaker 3 (27:58):
Why.

Speaker 1 (27:59):
That's certainly a lot of yapping for me. I've never
spokened so much on a podcast episode thus far, and
that's okay. This is my world, y'all just live in it.
But I mean, Haante for the I want you guys
to hear from students who actually changed their entire career
because of the impact of my work. Let's get right
into it. Eto. Super excited to be sitting here.

Speaker 3 (28:20):
With Lesha rene gon Salez.

Speaker 1 (28:24):
Leisha, thank you so much for being here. How you doing, girl,
I'm doing so good.

Speaker 4 (28:29):
Super gonna see that and so happy to sit here
and talk to somebody that I've looked up to for
a while.

Speaker 1 (28:35):
And I think you know that, Leisha. Where are you
calling in from? Like? Where? Where? Where? Where the world
are you? Yes?

Speaker 3 (28:45):
So many places in the world.

Speaker 4 (28:46):
But I am currently in Austin, Texas. I recently graduated
from the University of Texas.

Speaker 3 (28:52):
But I'm originally from Laredo.

Speaker 4 (28:55):
Texas, ride in the Mexico South Texas border, but i
have roots in Damalifas from my mother's side and from
Mexico from my father's side.

Speaker 1 (29:07):
Period. Love it. Thank you so much for being here, girl.
Are you ready for I see? Let's get it started, okay, Leansha.
What is your experience with Raton in academia? You hinted
a little bit, you say you look up to me.
I appreciate that, but what is your experience in academia?

Speaker 4 (29:28):
So I think that for me, academics, academia Scholarship has
always been very much intertwined with just my passions and
my personality and just the way I walk through the world.
Education has always been, you know, like the gateway as

(29:48):
someone like me from the background that I come from,
And so where does Reggaeton.

Speaker 3 (29:53):
Come in place when it comes to that.

Speaker 4 (29:56):
I started getting involved more scholarly with Reyeat after I
went through a very very difficult time with my mental health,
endured a lot, and during that journey I ended up
questioning and thinking to myself, what is it that I
have not already done to make myself feel completely whole again?

(30:19):
Being in a predominantly wide institution, being a daughter of immigrants,
being queer, blah blah blah, And we'll get to all
of that. But having all of these experiences and backgrounds
then led me to realize that my true therapy could
ultimately be Regaton and it was. And being in a
place like UT Austin, you know that's always bragging about

(30:41):
being a research institution and whatnot.

Speaker 3 (30:43):
But on the other end of the scope, being someone
who's a.

Speaker 4 (30:46):
First gen student and never even knew what a thesis was,
I ended up making the decision to focus my senior
plan to honor thesis in Regaton and specific and the
first ever dance club at a university that is focusing
on regeton the Regton Dance Club at ET.

Speaker 3 (31:07):
So that is how this journey started.

Speaker 1 (31:10):
I love that. I love that And for those listenings
she has invited me to the school, then happen. But
we will link up eventually, it will happen. I'm taking
to the universe. With that said, Karida, So how did
you discover like I want to hear that part, you know,
because people think i'd be I may happen to have

(31:35):
some sort of influence in academia. What's what's what's the
story there? What's your POV on this?

Speaker 4 (31:40):
Well, first of all, validly, so you have the receipts
and I am someone from the outside that can confirm that.
So kind of how I.

Speaker 3 (31:50):
Said, how when I was going through this journey, when
I was, you know.

Speaker 4 (31:52):
Building this from scratch to this idea this, you know,
just dream of what could a place a university where
you never hear this music? What could be of a
place where reggaeton is taking over, you know, young college
students in a place where you probably don't have the

(32:12):
type of communities you'd.

Speaker 3 (32:13):
Expect it from, which that's another conversation.

Speaker 4 (32:16):
But all of that led me to do a lot
of research, and ultimately, once I was trying to find
my branding, trying to find what was it that I
wanted to put.

Speaker 3 (32:28):
Out into the world, what was my message?

Speaker 4 (32:30):
I knew that it was very personal, but I also
wanted it to be very intentional, and I knew that
there was a lot of respect and a lot of
foundational ground work that I had to do to make
sure that I approached it in the most ethical, respectful way,
bringing it justice and not having a university with the
audience that I know it may have to perceive a
reggaeton dance club as Latino's equals party, equals drugs, equals

(32:55):
this eCos and everything else that historic.

Speaker 3 (32:58):
Reggaton has been judged for. And so doing all of that,
I ended up bumping into you, and I ended up.

Speaker 4 (33:05):
Realizing that a lot of the sources and books and
scholarship and conversations that I had originally already been interested
in at like you know, such a young age, but
never even new it was something that could be thought
of in an academic level that was what you were
to me. I was like, what, Like, this is actually

(33:27):
something that for me, you know I always say and
I preached, and you know, my club is the product
of me, you know, being saved by Pereo and by
being saved by like the power that it can bring
because I was in a really bad point. This is
literally like the product of resilience and hearing your story
and reading about you and being very much intentional with

(33:47):
getting to know your work and others work through you.

Speaker 3 (33:50):
Exactly how you started this conversation.

Speaker 4 (33:53):
I think that that is what opened up my eyes
to what could be and really was I think part
of the base foundation to what the intention and passion
and interest and not I now have for this work.

Speaker 3 (34:07):
It's a priority in my life, I would say, because
of people like you.

Speaker 1 (34:12):
I appreciate that girl over here trying not to tear
up and whatnot, because I really do appreciate that. And
I'm just grateful that you know similar to me, because
God knows how many times I've said it, like Legaton
is healing. You know, it's problematic. No one's saying that
it's not. But for those of us who can look
past that and understand that it's just a reflection of life,

(34:35):
and we could take from it what we want to
and put away from it what we want to. Like
it's healing. So I really love that, you know, for you,
and I appreciate that. So I honored to be part
of your your story and your process. And with that said,
then okay, because the way that I getta came about,

(34:57):
I actually wrote a I don't know how many times
I said it, but I wrote a thirty page paper
on on implicit bias in the Latin music industry. An
interviewed and I interviewed artists who are black, artists who
are white, and I compared in contrast. I was all
my nerdy stuff and I did like a case analysis
and so it was just like very eye opening as

(35:18):
to like what racism looks like. People say things all
the time, Oh that's racist, but they can't tell you why.
But like I actually was able to tangibly right down like, oh,
if you want to be in the industry, you're gonna
get blocked this way, You're gonna get blocked this way,
you're gonna get this, You're not gonna get that, you know.
And I'm queer, black and women, so ah, like become

(35:39):
we're talking Diego, but we're also talking Basboni, and don't
say talk to me about the cultural relevance about Bunny.
I am very curious to hear how you gotta how
you gonna speak to him after just saying this about Thago.
So what is your take?

Speaker 4 (35:52):
Oh my gosh, Okay, this is a it's a whirlwind.
And I think it's like, I don't know when it
became like this thing we're even talking about. It has
been like you have to tiptoe around the conversation so much.
I'm someone that has absolutely loved and admired his artistry,

(36:13):
his boldness, his creativity. I mean, there's no denying like
he's literally putting like an island with so much history
and so many like I mentioned pre pioneers already, you know,
in such a big stage and given like such a
focal point to a much needed community, and yes, has
been very vocal. And I think he's somebody that I

(36:35):
completely like, adorn and admire in that sense.

Speaker 3 (36:38):
But I think that as people like us who have
the interest.

Speaker 4 (36:42):
Of looking at it in uh as someone who literally
majored with a major in race, indigenaity and migration, like
I view everything, everything I touch, everything I see and
live and breathe and watch through that lens. And so
there's no denying that I think that there's been a
lot of moments where Bad Bunny has been giving like

(37:05):
a pass, or has been placed in a pedestal for
things that should just be expected from individuals who, at
the end of the day are now the faces and
the icons of a platform and a foundation, and you know,
forget all of that of a fucking you know, safe

(37:27):
sanctuary and a place of power and a place of
comfort and safety for a lot of individuals that do
not look like him.

Speaker 1 (37:34):
But he is now the.

Speaker 3 (37:36):
Face of all of that.

Speaker 4 (37:38):
Although all of those stories, and you know, I will say,
like his recent concerts, you know, like going through that
damn list, yes, like yes, but wow, it's a little
too late, Like it's these people are still living.

Speaker 3 (37:51):
Like these people are alive.

Speaker 4 (37:52):
Like I was lucky enough to speak to Lisa Am,
I was lucky enough to speak to Djenis, And I
was lucky enough to be able to like not even
like directly speak, but really like acknowledge these people's stories.
And so I think when it comes I think even
just the fact that we're talking about both the gaon
and Bad Bunny. I mean, like perfect because I think

(38:13):
I just echoed to the fact that I think.

Speaker 3 (38:17):
There's a lot of power in him.

Speaker 4 (38:19):
Yes, but even for example, like as two queer fem women,
like we can acknowledge that being part of the queer community,
there's just been a lot of like tension there because
a lot of the times it's like, Okay, here's these
reggaeton advocates for the queer community, and that you see
Bad Bunny, and I'm just like, you know, there's other actual,
like queer individuals in the community doing the work, have

(38:41):
been doing the work way before, like probably he was
even born. So I think that Bad Bunny is definitely
I think the lights we needed for sure to be
able to give the spotlight to so many others.

Speaker 3 (38:54):
But I think that you know, even as much as
I want to be like critical, you.

Speaker 4 (39:00):
Know, it's crazy because you having your background and like
you know, starting your work, it's crazy because it's literally blossom.

Speaker 3 (39:05):
From your thesis.

Speaker 4 (39:06):
My face is like what I look at us here,
But you know, like having that background, knowing how rawn's
evil the industry can be.

Speaker 3 (39:15):
I often know in the back of my head.

Speaker 4 (39:17):
Like a lot of these artists, that's somebody there, you know,
somebody has their little strings on. And sometimes I think
to myself, how much can we expect? You know, we
live in a society and a government and a political
state where there's censorship left and right. As a student
who's using REATNA as actual advocacy and looking at the

(39:38):
censorship through all this, it's like, well, maybe sometimes artists
can only do so much. But yet again, well, who
do we really want to have the platforms? And how
should we expect more from them? Because at the end
of the day, they're there because of their facts.

Speaker 1 (39:56):
Love your answer, and I only have one question in
response to it, is what do you think he's doing? Right?
Because you're second, I feel like, I don't know. It
makes me laugh because with me, for those who are listening,
it's like when I say exactly what Laysia says, like

(40:18):
and I've been saying this in public record for the
more than five years, it's like, oh, she don't like him,
and it's like Kenny Whole, like this is analysis, you
know what I mean? Like it's like, matter of fact,
I like him so much. I'm saying something because guess what.
I don't say shit about people I don't like, you
know what I mean? So, but regardless, I get painted

(40:40):
as like an angry person and I'm gonna chop that
up to racism at this point. But they're like, it's
it's never like a response of anything tangible. So a
tangible question here is what do you think he does right?
Because and I have two questions, what do you think
he does right? And also do you think because I
have settled on this, that part of your your analysis

(41:05):
on him isn't an analysis on him at all, but
on actual Latinidan. I have to process that for myself.
Like nine times out of ten, what is being said
about bad Bunny, in my opinion, isn't even about bad Bunny.
It's about Latinidan, and it's about how a white Latino
said like I said that, like you said or not

(41:27):
on white Latino is assuming power and privilege, you know
what I mean? Like, it's not even necessarily about him
at all. You know what do you agree with that? Wow?

Speaker 3 (41:40):
Yeah, that's that's a big one. That's definitely some processing.

Speaker 1 (41:44):
I think.

Speaker 3 (41:46):
I think the one thing that I think there is
props to give for I think it becomes.

Speaker 4 (41:54):
A conversation about what I've heard in academic spaces talked
of as uh like linguistic genocide.

Speaker 3 (42:04):
That's very real.

Speaker 4 (42:05):
And I think that I can definitely applaud his ability
or just we could say place of privilege. But also
I think like connected to how he has become a
resemblance of what you know, just Latini, that as a
whole really is.

Speaker 3 (42:24):
I think that's what his ultimate image and marketing is.

Speaker 4 (42:27):
Ultimately, it's become the face of I mean, if you
meet anybody, and I mean I fuck, I go to class.
I went to class with like a billion of these,
but any white person, and I mean I would be
tabling left and right and asking.

Speaker 3 (42:44):
And you know, it's like we've gotten to that point.
But I think just a matter of him uh in a.

Speaker 4 (42:51):
Sense maybe yeah, resisting to always speaking Spanish, always speaking
in his you know, accent, and not feeding into the
I'm gonna wipe you know what's it called? Like I mean,
I simulate to the point where I lose that essence.
But at the same time, you know, there's just like

(43:12):
all of that conversation is like I can't look at
him serious speaking and wanting to unite individuals when he's
just had connections that have proven like otherwise, and so
I say, I would agree definitely to a level. I
think there's some things to applaud, but I think it
also comes down to I feel like if it was

(43:32):
a woman versus or if it was a man, if
it was a black woman versus if it was a
white woman, like I think with in Latini that I
have definitely. I think even my thesis when I wrote
Latinia like contentionally stretched it, and I think that, you know,
there's just a lot of like slippery slopes within that

(43:53):
whole conversation. But ultimately we need to understand that it's
a community that is so diverse and so different from
to have whole unity. I mean, it's gonna take a
lot of out of everyone, And I think like quoting
artists accountable, but also in like measuring and making sure
that we realize, okay, we gave him enough attention, like
how many other like female Puerto Rican artists exist that

(44:18):
maybe we're not giving the same attention like we're giving
to all the Columbian artists. And that becomes like this
whole thing about how nationality within you know, Latinos in
itself is a whole other quote unquote, you know, war
in itself, And I mean I think we're seeing that
right now in our nation. But I think just to
wrap it up ultimately, I think, yes, his messaging can

(44:39):
be very powerful. I do think there's been good work done.
But I think with him it's just a matter of
stu've been fall down or trip and something like go
wrong and him not be there. But I think it's
like we've just expected these people to like really be
up there in vocal. And I mean, we live in

(45:02):
a time where if we can't even afford or if
their own people can't even afford something, but we are
having all these artists gain all this financial power. You
ask yourself like, well, what are we really fighting for,
you know, for then artists who put the message out?
Or should we go out there and do it ourselves.
So I think it's a very crazy story that a

(45:24):
lot of people should have.

Speaker 1 (45:27):
I appreciate that girl for the sake of time. I
have one more question. There are now more than five,
if I'm not mistaken, bad Bunny courses in universities across
the country. Wellesley, Princeton, Yale. I didn't even know about Princeton.
So the other day, what is your take on that.

Speaker 3 (45:48):
I think it's a great start.

Speaker 4 (45:51):
I think that as someone who has cited, you know,
like all of these initiatives that have been taking and
bringing the conversations and using something that we know that
you know, the youth may be more engaged in speaking
about politics and race and sex if they spoke through
of it through this lens right of artists and entertainment

(46:12):
and music. But I definitely think that it's just very
It's it's very dense. It's it's not dense like enough,
it's very just like surface level. I think there's like
so much deeper that they can go. I mean, I
was only supposed to write a sixty page thesis and
I wrote one hundred and ninety seven page thesis. And
I'm just looking at this to myself like wow, like

(46:34):
there's just so much more that they could be getting into.
And I think that there's learning, there's so many places
that we can learn and stories and artists and moments
in time that I think like we just.

Speaker 3 (46:45):
Need to like help put out there.

Speaker 4 (46:47):
So I hope that ultimately maybe I could help play
a role in like bringing more of that in some
way or another into universities.

Speaker 1 (46:55):
I appreciate that. Leisha, thank you so much for joining
us for a wellie. How are you doing? I am good.
How are you good? Good? Good? Thanks for being here, Dama.
Are you ready to answer some quick questions? Yes, okay,
let's get right into it first and foremost. In this episode.
As you know, we're talking about Silibus girl, it's a

(47:18):
new era. So with that said, I want to know
what is your experience with d in academia.

Speaker 3 (47:26):
I was.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
I went to undergrad at Wesleyan University, and I remember
I wrote which wasn't long enough, so I don't know
why I'm saying I remember, but I did write a
chapter of my thesis on j Noah, which she's not
a Nagadone artist, but it did include your work, which
I think was important in shaping my chapter and talking

(47:47):
about a black Dominican artist and how she was presenting
herself to the world. And I think with that in mind,
I'm able to look forward to thinking about other dondos
or artists in the industry who are like can be
brought into academia to discuss the impact of the genre
into our culture.

Speaker 1 (48:09):
First of all, thank you for including your work that
means a lot, which I mean perfect segue into the
next question, how did you discover like in your words,
like what iss impact important? Like speaking as a student,
I'm super like interested in hearing your take.

Speaker 2 (48:30):
So I first discovered on Twitter and then I followed
your work for a really long time before we met
each other because you were supposed to come to Wesleyan.
And even though that did not happen, I think we
built a beautiful relationship. And after that I interviewed you

(48:51):
for my Jinah chapter uh and that was really fun
because I got to talk to you, and I think
what was fun about that seeing your impact like come
to shape in my own work, and that impact being
like the fact that you're doing this public facing scholarship
and the fact that not only does it stay within

(49:13):
the pockets of academia, which we might think of academia
as it being a really large field, but in actuality
it isn't. And I think sometimes things can exist in
a vacuum, whereas this public facing scholarship that you're doing,
I think a lot of people can consume it and
understand it. And it's also bilingual, so that reaches double

(49:34):
the amount of people, which I think is obviously really
important to thinking about haggaton and its significance.

Speaker 1 (49:42):
I appreciate that girl And in wage case, okay brat
with lan and now you are studying. Congratulations means thank you.
What is your biggest takeaway from hagatone in the academic space.

Speaker 2 (49:57):
I think one of the biggest takeaways from and the
academic space is the fact that the genre has been
maybe misconceptualized as a genre that doesn't tell us anything
about our culture or is not a space where artists
are having a cultural impact or are thinking about things
in a grander scheme of things rather than just like

(50:20):
beehereo and dancing. And I think through the academic space
we have been able to dive deeper and analyzegatong in
a in a way that shows its meaningful impact and
not just our culture, but just like the way that
we think about creative fields and how people are able
to express their morals and their ethics through the genre.

Speaker 1 (50:44):
And with that said, speaking about relevance and all these things,
talk to me about the cultural relevance of den.

Speaker 2 (50:54):
I think when you ask that question, my first thought
was thinking about my childhood and growing up in the
dr and as a little girl, knowing who was without
knowing who he was, like knowing his lyrics but not
knowing who this person was and knowing what he looked like.

Speaker 5 (51:11):
But again, who is this?

Speaker 2 (51:14):
And I think like for a lot of people, maybe
he was just someone that was always in the back
of our childhood and like shaping those memories. But it
wasn't until growing up that you actually realize who Tego was,
and like the cultural icon that he is and the
importance of him in Regatong and in Latini rad and

(51:36):
the fact that he was a proud black Puerto Rican
in the in the movement, like the Head movement, is
just really important to think about. And I think maybe
we need to start discussing him more because I think
maybe the hype has dived down, and I don't think
that should be right.

Speaker 1 (51:54):
I agree, girl, That's why I'm starting a syllabus, Like
I I'm happy for certain artists and their existence, but
I'm also like, oh my god, I got that one.
On what I said.

Speaker 2 (52:07):
About the cultural relevance of Bad Bunny. I am a
hardcore by Bunny fan. I think in the way that
someone like my brother who's six years older than me
grew up with theego. I have been kind of impacted
in that way by Bad Bunny, even though it's very
different the work that they're doing. I think Bad Bunny

(52:29):
has become more cultural, more relevant culturally because of the
work that he's doing in talking about the independence of
Puerto Rico from the United States and you know the residency,
you see a lot of people wearing their Puerto Rican
flags really proudly, and I think with that you can

(52:49):
see the impact that an artist can have in political movements.
And he obviously is not the first one to do it,
but I think we're seeing it now to a new
scale because of the relevance that he also has on
the American market.

Speaker 1 (53:06):
I think we're following where you're going. And I would agree,
like I'm a Bad Bunny fan to contrary to popular belief,
and the way that he's putting up for Puerto Rico
is breathtaking. So we canna honestly leave it at that,
because that in and of itself is powerful, and like,
I couldn't be happier for Puerto Rican people that they

(53:26):
have such a champion, And I said it various times
like I feel like if every country had a Bad Bunny,
the world would be a better place. I believe that.
So yeah, thank you for your your intake on that.
And with that said, there are now more than I
think the numbers five if I'm not if I'm not mistaken,
Bad Bunny courses and universities across the country. Wellesley, Princeton, Yale.

(53:51):
What's your take on that.

Speaker 2 (53:54):
I think it's interesting that Bad Bunny, as someone who
is I guess now it's like still on his peak,
is having classes being dedicated to him. I would I
would have assumed that that would come later on in
his career, but it's interesting to see that that's happening
now while he's like, you know, this super mega star.

(54:20):
I think, you know, it's really interesting to dedicate a
class to Bad Bunny. But I think that needs to
be thought out really well, because what is the class
going to be for. Is it about his artistry or
is it about the political impact.

Speaker 1 (54:36):
That he's having.

Speaker 2 (54:37):
And I think these classes might have students maybe with
the misconception that this is like a fan club where
we're just analyzing Bad Bunny solely by himself, but we
need to start thinking about what are the real implications
of talking about him and idealizing him. And where are

(54:59):
the good things that we can say about Bad Bunny?
And where are the things that maybe we can talk
and disagree with about how he's moving aka him for example,
not saying anything about godz that to this day, him
not saying anything about black lives matter in twenty twenty.
I think those are things that we need to take
into consideration while also maybe talking about the relevance.

Speaker 1 (55:21):
That he has.

Speaker 2 (55:22):
I mean, we can't just like admire him and not
criticize some of the things that he's doing.

Speaker 1 (55:28):
I have no worse at that. How do identify culturally
and do you think academic spaces bathone are prime? Are
they prime for racial consciousness?

Speaker 4 (55:42):
Like?

Speaker 1 (55:43):
What is that within the nature of it? Why or
why not?

Speaker 2 (55:47):
M I'm a proud Dominican Afro Dominican period, I don't
know if academic spaces are prime for racial consciousness. I
also don't know if Hega Doong is prime for racial consciousness.

Speaker 1 (56:05):
At this point.

Speaker 2 (56:06):
I mean the fact that like Diego cal Dedoon, like
I said earlier, is still like underrated to some degree
and not talked about enough. Like yes, Bad Bunny brought
in a large crowd into the Reggadon movement, let's say,
or not movement, but into the genre people are listening
Togadon because of him. Let's say, let's educate those people

(56:28):
on who is. And I don't know if either of
those two spaces are equipped fully to talk about racial
consciousness within the genre, because I think within academic spaces
we build someone up in a way that maybe we
cannot criticize them. And I think it's the same in Reregadoon,

(56:50):
like if you criticize an artist, then you are a hater,
which may not be true. You just want maybe that
person to be a better person and a better representation
of the movement. And I think, yeah, I don't know
if either spaces are fully equipped, but I hope that
we can begin to make shrivees at that because I

(57:12):
think looking at Dong and looking at racial consciousness through
Doong is really important because I think it will highlight
to a lot of people the importance of the Spanish
speaking Caribbean to Latini, and I think is one of
those ways.

Speaker 1 (57:26):
Beautiful son, And so to bring this into like a
contemporary space, I would like to ask you, like if
you could put two artists on a Regaton song, dead
or alive? Who would it be? And what's the vibe?

Speaker 5 (57:43):
All right, the vibe, I don't know, they're gonna have
to work it out in the studio, but.

Speaker 1 (57:48):
No, no, you're the a n R. Is this romantic?
Is this money? And so also like also, my girl,
you gotta do the job, like no, right, let me
lock in.

Speaker 2 (58:02):
I think personally that I in the contemporary side, I'm
thinking about j Noah because she I don't think she's
ever done agat dong and I think maybe through don
people a lot more people can get to know her
and her talent. I mean, I adore her as an artist.
I mean ever in a chapter about her my thesis,

(58:22):
so clearly I'm a fan. And then I was thinking
of someone who is maybe a proud black woman from
the Caribbean, and my mind went to Selia Cruz and
maybe the vibe is empowerment. Maybe the vibe is talking
about black womanhood in the Caribbean, And maybe that's a

(58:44):
little too like political, but like, I think it'll be
fun to see them talk about what that is. Celia
from a you know, like earlier in time and J
Noah like talking about that now and the fact that
one is Cuban one is Dominican. There's a lot of
conversations that could be had about what black womanhood looks

(59:07):
like in the Spanish Caribbean.

Speaker 1 (59:10):
Okay. And lastly, there's a lot going on in Dragaton
outside of the artists I have been mentioned today. What
is your hot take on what's going on in Dragaton
right now?

Speaker 2 (59:22):
My hot take is that some people need to stop
doing Dumbo. Leave that to the Dominicans. Please, I'm so sorry,
Like please, for real, Who's Who's Who's people's girl?

Speaker 5 (59:36):
She needs to stop? Okay, she needs to I blow up,
She needs to stop.

Speaker 1 (59:44):
Oh fediatic cool? Whatever? The new one? I have no idea.
Needs to stop.

Speaker 5 (59:49):
It needs to stop.

Speaker 1 (59:51):
Should have been left in the studio. Okay, wait, pause, pause,
time out, time out. Okay. First of all, I didn't
hear comment on it because I'm I gonna say something
I don't even know. But okay, so I have to
follow that up with the question, because this has been
a conversation. Do you think that she copied Bad Bunny?

(01:00:12):
Like do you think that's possible?

Speaker 4 (01:00:14):
Like?

Speaker 2 (01:00:15):
Really, I don't think she copied Bad Bunny, but I
do think that the timing is really interesting because you
have Ra Alejandro and Bad Bunny, who are the two
most popular Puerto Rican artists, doing these albums that are
like culturally introspective and highlighting Bomba music and things from

(01:00:37):
their country that people are not used to within regatoon,
and then she comes out with this new album. I
wouldn't say it's copying, but maybe it's like I don't
like looking over and seeing, oh, maybe that's cool and
then doing it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
But not.

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
I wouldn't say it's directly copying, but I don't know.
I think she's interesting.

Speaker 5 (01:00:59):
I think she's interesting, Like this whole what's what's the
word that she said that she came up with?

Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
Come on, now, okay, she didn't come up with a word.
She didn't say that that was j key list Puerto
Rican gave her the word, So like, what are we
gonna do? You know what I mean? Like at that point,
tell me, because it's like a bico gave it her
and I'm like, oh, well, I can't really argue, like
if y'all gonna give away your things, well, you know
what I mean? Get that legal? I So this is

(01:01:29):
one thing I'll say and I try not to time
and end. But I think that because in her words,
she said that she wanted this to be the most
album ever, and I was like, I don't know what
that means, but I think that she you know, at
the end of the day, she's the biggest is I'll
give her that. Like it's true, you know, like I could,

(01:01:51):
she's been working hard, and I think that even with
all the awards that she's gotten, it's like she's trying
to solidify her place in history as like I call
it like a Latina figure, you know what I mean.
So I feel like this was like a like her
attempt at doing that, like as a oh my god,
Selah like in history said it was like one of

(01:02:12):
the biggest SASA artists. I feel like with us, she's
like she's like not trying to bring herself as like
one of the biggest artists, but it's one of the
biggest Latin artists. But the thing is, it's like I'm
confused as to That's when I started questioning, like why
don't you try to bring yourself I was like one
of the biggest artists. It's like does she feel like
she did that or is it that she's moved on

(01:02:34):
from that, and she's like, you know, Latin, I don't know.
I guess like what my where my brain goes like
I don't get why, but I have a lot of thoughts.
I haven't heard the music yet, so I'm shut up
with that said girl, Thank you so much for joining me.

(01:03:06):
Yao Rapalla Flores. Reggae Donata is an iHeart Media production
co executive produced by No of Sikrizi Media The Keucho
produced by Grace Gonzalez Diamo Seva What I Do without You?
Shout out to my assistant editors Naomi A. Savelo and
Kayla Clusten. Shout out to my music editor Habbi Vibes.

(01:03:29):
Shout out to Loomina. I am your host, Lagata. See
you right here next week on the iHeartRadio app or
wherever listen again. Reggae Donata