EP#19 Best of Both Worlds ft. Shamira Ibrahim

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Me Scoda, Sonson is Gata, and this week I'm joined
by a very special guest, Shamira ivraym a Brooklyn based
culture writer by way of Harlem, Canada and East Africa.
She's a brilliant critic and storyteller whose work you're probably
seeing a New York magazine in Essence, The Atlantic, New
York Times, and so many more.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
Y'all think y'all be gagged.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
With my tweets, I be gagged with hers. Shamina explores identity,
cultural production, and technology through a raised critical code framework,
and she's currently a regional editor at Africa is a
Country Back Asavasalin. In this episode, we dive into her
journey as a writer, the impact of AI on music,

(00:45):
and the struggles independent artists race when pushing for.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
Visibility or we go there.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
We talk about the importance of authenticity and are the
evolution of both hip hop and raggaton. So suponka what
I do in Latin, there are a lot of parallels
in our work with what she does in Anglo. In
other words, everything English language, but particularly hip hop, and
the complicated nature of parasocial relationships between artists and fans

(01:13):
because it's getting weird in here, and of course we
close with some powerful reflections on the future music and
white culture exchanges everything at the So sit back, relax
and play, and let's get into it with Shamida Aki

(01:35):
Di Mama hant anina Is. I am super excited because
I'm here with someone I deeply admire, another black girl
or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
Show me up so much for being here. How you doing, girl?

Speaker 3 (01:49):
Thank you? I'm good.

Speaker 4 (01:51):
Thank you so much for the invitation. Mutual respect here
girl girl.

Speaker 1 (01:55):
Of course, of course I can wait to get into it.
Just a record, y'all can't see me. This is an
audio podcast. But whenever she tweets, I'd be like, like,
this is.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
Me, like and if you only better.

Speaker 1 (02:08):
Whenever her tweet, I got an email that's like this
is supposed to be an essay, Why.

Speaker 4 (02:11):
Are you tweeting?

Speaker 1 (02:13):
Yeah, girl, Okay, talk about it because seriously, with me,
I had to stop tweeting because I'm like music leads bro.
I can't tweet because all of a sudden, I see
articles with the headlines of my tweets and I'm like, yo,
I'm not getting paid for this. I got a chill,
Like it's hard being an authentic culture shifter because right

(02:34):
back and shit, but like exactly the.

Speaker 4 (02:36):
Way that I think of it is I come up
with ten ideas an hour, So if you take.

Speaker 3 (02:40):
Two, you got it. You know what I'm saying, Like
I got eight more.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
In the In the clip, I literally was telling my
my intern, I'm like, I hate me because I have
an idea and I buy a domain or I have
an idea. Bro, you don't know how many go daddy
dot com. You're getting free promo right now, but like
and it's like two ninety nine domain fuck and like
right right done? So felt right, folks. Oh my god,

(03:04):
oh my god. I love the note that we started on,
and I want to get right back into it in
your own words, because there's what people see.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
Online, there's what I think I don't know, and.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
Then there's what actually is. I would love to hear
in your own words your story. Who is Charmina? Like,
I want to hear your story? Right?

Speaker 4 (03:24):
So I am first and foremost and New Yorker. You know,
I have to start with that I grew up in Uptown, NYC.
And that is still very much home to me, although
I live in Brooklyn.

Speaker 3 (03:33):
Don't tell anybody but.

Speaker 2 (03:37):
A whole story.

Speaker 4 (03:38):
But you know, I grew up in the city as
an East African from a Francophone French taking background, and
a lot of what I grew up experiencing is trying
to find different ways to connect to different communities because
New York is such a melting pot of different ethnicities,
but not many people from a small East African.

Speaker 3 (03:53):
Archipelagos coast, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (03:57):
So much my life in this city is trying to
build bridges and trying to figure out you know, like, Okay,
this is how I understand my blackness.

Speaker 3 (04:04):
How does that?

Speaker 4 (04:04):
What does that mean to you? How do we connect?
What do we have in common? What we have differently?
And that helped reform everything I do as a writer.
So much of my writing is about black life and
the different ways we exist in it, right, you know,
trying to find different connections, different bridges.

Speaker 2 (04:17):
You know.

Speaker 4 (04:17):
I know it's corny to say that, like we're more
similar than we are different, but like, I really do
feel that in a lot of different ways, you know,
And it has been a pleasure to be able to
do that one as just a general loud mouth and
curious person who likes to know, you know, New things
about different cultures, but also as a writer who I
like to start as a person who's curious and go

(04:38):
from there as an example to discover new things. So
that's that's the gist of I guess my background. You know,
Like I said, I grew uptown. I grew up in
sugar Hill. You know, went to rock Science for those
who care about high school in New York, right, you know.
And I love talking about the things that make this
city click because as someone who grew up in the
outer boroughs, you know, a lot of people don'tderstand the

(05:00):
things that actually matter to a lot of local New Yorkers.
And I do try to acknowledge that part in the
stories that I tell.

Speaker 1 (05:07):
Word up, word up, And she said sugar Hill just
so up, y'all who are listening or like nah, she's
a real New Yorker. And I know because I was
a transplant for a lot of years and I own
it for New York.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
It is like sitting on the planet.

Speaker 1 (05:20):
So like word up, word up, No, girl, thank you,
and immediately just off the cuff. I have another question,
because girl, I learned so much from you, and like
the love here is honestly so mutual. Like I learned
so much from you. You'll be tweeting and I'd be
like yes, like felt and so you know, everyone they
learned in different ways. What was your problem?

Speaker 2 (05:40):
If you go to school? Are you classical classically trained?

Speaker 1 (05:44):
But like, how did you like come into your awakening
and your training?

Speaker 2 (05:48):
What was that like for you?

Speaker 4 (05:50):
So I was not classically trained as a writer or
journalist in that way, right, you know, like many people
with ADHD, I went through a lot of different career
pivots before I figured out like what made the most
sense for me.

Speaker 3 (06:01):
Right, So, like coming up.

Speaker 4 (06:04):
Middle school, high school, I thought I was going to.

Speaker 3 (06:06):
Be a translator.

Speaker 4 (06:07):
In my head, I swore I had an aptitude for languages.

Speaker 3 (06:10):
What I tell you I did not.

Speaker 4 (06:13):
What it really was was I grew up in a
French speaking household, and then I grew up around a
lot of Dominicans to Puerto Ricans, and so I was
able to pick up Spanish really quickly. I'm like, oh
my god, I got this, and I forget Oh yeah,
French and Spanish are just like really related, you know
what I mean?

Speaker 3 (06:27):
So I had a foundation. I tried to learn Mandarin go.

Speaker 4 (06:31):
That was a rapping out it clipped real quick, like
shout out to Katie Hunter, because they were very gracious
to me to let me.

Speaker 3 (06:38):
Pass that class. You know, I did that.

Speaker 4 (06:41):
I thought I was going to work in international policy
and like save the world and you know, go around
and like do international political economy type stuff.

Speaker 3 (06:48):
That's what I actually studied in undergrad.

Speaker 4 (06:51):
I studied politics and economics and traveled abroad and try
to figure out, you know, how to ensure alleviate poverty
in the global South, right, you know. And I went
to DC after that, and like the money was not there,
and like, I'm the eldest in an.

Speaker 3 (07:05):
Immigrant household that is very working class.

Speaker 4 (07:07):
Actually, I should be explicit I grew up poor, right,
like just to be explicit about it, right, Being on
subsistence like funds until I could go to grad school
was just not feasible for me. And that's how I
ended up pivoting into consulting. And I did consulting in
the tech world for a very long time. But then
I was just in this corporate space for like way
too long, and I didn't really have an outlet to
talk about the things that mattered to me, and so

(07:28):
I started blogging.

Speaker 3 (07:29):
I started contributing to blogs.

Speaker 4 (07:30):
Doing long comments, realizing I'm writing an essay in people's
comment sessions, you know, my friends being like, you should
write this, And so I ended up getting a byline
for Ebony, and you know, then I ended up getting
a byline at a lot of like big like culture
local blocks at the time, like very Smart Brothers and
all those kind of blogs that were really popular at
the time.

Speaker 3 (07:49):
And that was it.

Speaker 4 (07:49):
Fifteen years later, I'm still writing and now I'm doing
a full time like that's the short version of how
I even got here, right, And then I realized, like
I didn't just want to react to like public things
that were happening on social media, to be able to
sit and talk more meaningfully about like the connections we have,
the way stories come about, the way we live our lives.

Speaker 3 (08:06):
And I was.

Speaker 4 (08:08):
Very thankful to be able to get opportunities to do that,
to really be able to be like, I want to
talk about black immigration, but like in a real way
and not just like acknowledging it as a bullet point.

Speaker 3 (08:16):
I found editors that were willing to work with me.

Speaker 4 (08:17):
I've been really lucky in that the majority of my
editors have not only been black with black women, and
they've been very supportive of my journey and trying to
be like a more established writer.

Speaker 1 (08:29):
I love that for you. As you're speaking, I'm like.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
Like, which part do I hold on to?

Speaker 1 (08:36):
But I'm holding out to all of it, and in
the sense that like in transparency, So for those who
are listening, she works more so like in the US
general like Anglo market for y'all who are listening, I
of course work more so on the Latin market. And
I'm over here like bro, like talking about blackness and
Latin is a is a Oh we don't go out

(08:58):
of time so hard, that is.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
But I love that.

Speaker 1 (09:02):
You have supporting editors. Shout out to the ones that
I have had, because.

Speaker 2 (09:06):
You know, they've respected me and they have taken chances
on me.

Speaker 1 (09:11):
At the same time, I know that I've written a
lot of things that like I remember writing an op
ed that completely changed the trajectory of my life, and
it was because I was talking about black lives matter
and artist's lack of commentary on it.

Speaker 2 (09:23):
And like, I remember.

Speaker 1 (09:25):
Getting approached by a lot of black latingas and being like, yo,
I pitched that years ago, and they were like racism
is so niche, and I'm like, oh, here we go.
So like anyway, like I do want this people to
like hear this, because it's like, ooh, the media landscape
is shifting so much on both sides at this point,
and so that's exactly where I'm going in the sense of, girl,

(09:46):
I'm dying to know, like what has that been like
for you? In the sense of like witnessing this shift.
We're in a time right now we have a certain
president who is promoting a certain culture, and there's a
lot of silence in going on, right, and we're both
very outspoken women.

Speaker 2 (10:06):
What have you been what have you been hold on to?
What have been pissing you off? I want to hear it.

Speaker 4 (10:11):
Yeah, I think the big thing that's been pissing me
off is the sense of safety. So, being quite honest,
you know, I grew up undocumented for most of my life, right,
you know. It's an undocumented Muslim immigrant in New York
during nine to eleven type shit, right.

Speaker 1 (10:23):
You know?

Speaker 4 (10:25):
And what I tell you when I speak to like
my colleagues and peers, and they feel less safe now
that we did in like two thousand and two, two
thousand and two thousand and four just because of the
level of everybody monitoring everybody, Like there's a level of
lack of security that I feel like we all have.
I have my green card and I travel now, and
I still feel a little bit anxious, like I'm doing
all the steps deleting the social media, archiving everything whatever.

(10:48):
But as someone like you said, who generally feels comfortable
being outspoken about the things that I want to say
or the things I believe or the information that I
feel like people don't have, it feels like I'm being
a little bit more intentional about how I approach what
I say and how I say. Like, if I'm gonna
say something prerogative, it has to be backed up so
that when you do try me, I can list out
ABCD about how I know I got this right. Like

(11:09):
I have to be really a little bit more thoughtful
about the off the cuff things that I have to
say these days, wor And.

Speaker 2 (11:15):
You you're thinking this way because you're a journalist, you
know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (11:17):
You're thinking because you have respect for integrity, for ethics,
you know what I mean, and for the truth. And
I think, like, what's most like what has pissed me off?
If I was to answer that same thing. It's like, girl,
I can't. I still. I know, I saw like a
broken record, but like the shift of Twitter has completely crazy.

Speaker 2 (11:36):
Oh my god.

Speaker 4 (11:37):
I mean I locked my Twitter account down for that reason,
you know, like I had to lock it down. I
felt like I was getting caught in these rage baited
cycles about talking about things that I want to talk about,
Like I'm talking about nuances of African immigration as someone
who grew up going to braiding shops and grew up
you know, my mom was a nanny, she was a housekeeper,
she did all these things. So I'm talking from personal
perspective and getting dog piled by like racist account like,

(12:00):
you know, trying to start up xenophobia right, talking about
of all things Dominicans.

Speaker 3 (12:05):
Right on social media as somebody who grew up.

Speaker 4 (12:07):
Around plenty, you know, and like getting caught up in
like you know, FBA conversations that I find unproductive, right,
you know, Like I'm not even trying to, you know,
delegitimize how people feel about you know, ethnic conversations, right,
But it's more so like I don't find this a
productive way to talk about the topic at hands, right,
And I find that I wasn't able to have real

(12:29):
conversations anymore. Like you could tell that people were not
looking for dialogues. And that's assuming you're even talking to
a real person in the first place, right, because we
saw the report of seventy five bots out there now
or seventy five percent bots out there now, right, you know.
And so I was like, I still would to say,
I would have to say, but I want this to
be more of a running journal than like something that
everyone can co opt or whatever.

Speaker 3 (12:48):
So I locked it down, which like when you already.

Speaker 4 (12:50):
Have a few thousand followers, it's still like you're kind
of putting like a glass closet door or whatever.

Speaker 3 (12:55):
But it still gave me like a little bit.

Speaker 4 (12:56):
Of safety of like I can't get piled on into
these conversations because you know, it is a distraction. It
doesn't allow you to think about things you want to
think about, talk about what you're to talk about, because
all of a sudden, you're arguing with a nobody who
may not even be a real person.

Speaker 1 (13:13):
Heavy on a nobody, because I mean that's literally, girl,
I remember everything in AK like I closed my eyes
and I just remember every single thing that Musk and
his stoop but ass team did. The first thing they
did was take away the blue check marks from journalists
to discredit them and amount of tize that, which he
could say that's a business level business decision whatever, but

(13:33):
what was actually going on was like it was, you know,
the insults were pissed at, like they cantlue you know,
so that comes from that, and like just like wanting
to promote misinformation, which I mean whatever we do, okay,
but to pivot a little bit.

Speaker 2 (13:50):
One thing I already admired from you.

Speaker 1 (13:52):
And like you know, you're you're like so like for
lack of the terms, just so around it to talk
about everything. I feel like I scrolled and I'm like
I see everything. I'm like, I love it. But especially
in music, your takes on music be taking me out sometimes,
and so what's your take on AI.

Speaker 2 (14:11):
I've been kind of like just like, oh, probably on
a lot. Yeah that's going on. Yeah, talk to me,
talk to me, So.

Speaker 3 (14:19):
Like I should give the context out.

Speaker 4 (14:21):
Like I said, before I was a writer, I was
in tech consulting, right, you know, so I've been around
a lot of these big trends before they became mainstream.

Speaker 3 (14:27):
So I actually worked a little bit in the AI space.

Speaker 4 (14:30):
At the time, it was called big data and data
analytics and data insights, right, you know, and like the
whole effort was for these big corporations at the enterprise
level to be able to collect data and marketing insights
about anybody, segment it and like figure out ways to
generate revenue. Right, So it was mostly for sales teams,
then it was for marketing teams. And the thing is
that like there's a cap on like how much you

(14:52):
can do that and still be profitable, right, And so
then what happens is that they passed that off to
the consumer. So like knowing how shoddy the actual systems
are right in how nonviable they were on a corporate level,
and that now they're just trying to use it and
like displace it and force us to use it, right,
Because as someone who's a skeptic, I still I have
to open Microsoft Word and force Copilot to not you know,

(15:14):
turn on right, or I go on a Google search
and I have to turn off AI. Right, So they're
like forcing us into compliance. But I think the thing
about it is what makes music magical is the imperfection.
And you can't create an imperfection.

Speaker 3 (15:26):
With AI.

Speaker 4 (15:27):
You can't hear the lick of a song where somebody's
voice cracks in an AI record, right.

Speaker 3 (15:32):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (15:33):
You can't hear a live recording where maybe that person
drummed the wrong solo sequence, but it hits so differently, right,
you know, if you're not actually played with a live
jam band. Right, Like I had the you know, distinct
privilege of being able to see Bad Bunny do the
NPR tidy desk in person, right, And I remember hearing
him rehearse in the green room, just like practicing the vocals, right,

(15:55):
and like he's trying it three different ways, right, He's
trying it three to fourty four to see what will
work best for the acoustic. And it's like you don't
get to know that distinction of like, oh, I'm going
to be this new room, How am I going to
project this? How I'm going to sing this? If you're
processing it through a computer. I think a lot of
people assume that any technology means that we should be
comfortable with AI, and especially with like genres like hip

(16:16):
hop and house and techno that are inherently like rooted
in technology, like hip hop started from you know the turntables.
There's a sense of like, well, we always use technology,
so why would it we continue And it's like we
can always innovate, right, there's no problem with continuing to innovate.
The big issue is that this doesn't actually allow you
to think. And there's labor in practicing to find perfect

(16:38):
right and you use the tools to facilitate that. But
if you use it to create for you that process,
the process when you sit down and think through what
makes something important or valuable or memorable, you lose all
of that because you're just giving that power over to
a tool.

Speaker 2 (16:54):
So Timberland over here trying to create and artists and
knowing your book.

Speaker 3 (16:58):
No, absolutely not.

Speaker 4 (17:00):
The thing that makes me sad is that it's such
a blatant money grab, right, you know, and it's like
do you need more your Timberland? You've made so many
hit records, how much more money could you possibly need?

Speaker 2 (17:10):
You know that part?

Speaker 1 (17:11):
And also I'm just I was completely caught off guard.
So for those who are listening, you know, of course
I'm a raggaetn learn shout out to the day Blast.
I'm like obsessed with him. If you know me and
you know my story, you know my name is Gotha
because of which he's produced like that. I am a
huge Blast fan, and Blast is a huge Timberland fan.
Like Blast has told me that like he appreciated his layering.

(17:35):
He's like, oh, he'll he'll like he'll lay down the
base and then he'll lay down the percussion and then
he always adds something quirky, and like, I take that
formula and I.

Speaker 2 (17:44):
Use that in raggaeton.

Speaker 1 (17:45):
We have the pheral that we have today because of
artists like Timberland and hip hop.

Speaker 2 (17:50):
So for Timberland to.

Speaker 1 (17:51):
Be this extraordinary and then wanta cave in like that
is like, my guy, exactly, how much more money do
you need?

Speaker 2 (17:57):
What happened? Like why do.

Speaker 1 (17:59):
You like this right now? Why you operating this as
if you don't make superstars? What's going on? You need
an A and R tim if you need an A
and I'm available, like I got your luck.

Speaker 2 (18:11):
But then it's like.

Speaker 3 (18:15):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (18:16):
I just feel like it's even disrespectful to him and
who he is. It's like, right, I don't get it, you.

Speaker 3 (18:21):
Know what I mean?

Speaker 4 (18:22):
Right to your friend's point about those quirky elements, right,
like I think about was it more than a woman
where he has a baby crying as like a sample. Right,
you don't get to do that in an AI produced
b right, Like you're not gonna think, oh my god,
I have a baby's screens and I'm gonna use that right,
Or I'm gonna use the sound of a chair squeaky
right the way that they use on some cut which

(18:43):
has now been used everywhere.

Speaker 2 (18:44):
Right.

Speaker 4 (18:45):
These things don't get to be part of how you
chop things right. And I think that, like sometimes we
want those in perfections, Like I think about for example,
Jadakiss and just like the locks where we go make
it right, you know, And like if you listen to
how the sample is cut, it's actually not perfect, Like
it doesn't fall squarely on the floor the way it's cut.
It's like a little off right, But that's what makes

(19:06):
it amazing to listen to. Right, it doesn't perfectly fit
into the bar the way that the violin sample works right,
And if you do that in AI it does fit
in perfectly, of course, because why would they try to
make it crooked, right, you know? And I think like
it's not even just the fact that the songs all
sound like they're made for reality television background music, which
like I do feel that way, you know, like I

(19:28):
hear the Love Island soundtrack play Love on screaming, like
I hear it. But even beyond that, it's just like
it's not even interesting. It can't be interesting because the
things that are interesting are the things that you get
to play around with, and you're not playing around with anything.

Speaker 1 (19:44):
Off Ward up girl, And also hold on pause, ring
wind because you said something and I'm just like, well,
how many people get to experience that? You got to
experience my money MPR tiny? Oh, like how many people
decay they did that? There's only serting about of people
in the wrong.

Speaker 3 (20:01):
I tell all the photos.

Speaker 1 (20:02):
Girl.

Speaker 4 (20:03):
You know, I got as close as I could without
being a weirdo about it, you.

Speaker 3 (20:07):
Know what I'm saying. I will say that all of.

Speaker 1 (20:10):
PR NPR's Puerto Rican contingent.

Speaker 3 (20:12):
Was in full flow.

Speaker 4 (20:13):
I mean, if you saw Theatin, do you know that
it was a very participatory experience, right, Like I will
say that, like at the outset, you know, he you know,
he was like, are you come to worst speak Spanish?
Everyone encouraged him to do the whole thing in Spanish.
You know, it was like this is your space to
be welcome. Obviously the records were amazing, but also just
amazing to see someone like bad Bunny who has over

(20:34):
the years I've known him, probably the first record of
his I ever heard, clearly was Creepy Push. That was
the first record of his that I knew quite well, right,
And I remember my friend Jose being like, you have
to listeners, God, Dad Bunny. A couple of years ago,
he was just baggy groceries and Puerto Rico and now
he's out here.

Speaker 2 (20:51):
You know, doing the whole thing, and seeing.

Speaker 4 (20:54):
How he has gone from that, like you know, and
really defined the musical bano scene right and turning that
into what he's doing for Puerto Rico right now, and
at this moment doing it on his own terms, like
it doesn't matter if you're Latino or not. Who can
you can't do anything but stand right, you know what
I mean, Like in the sense of like it's it's
so compelling to watch him try to figure out ways
with his stardom to bring it back to Puerto Rico.

(21:16):
I think that's what a lot of people hope that
their favorite international artists can do. And there's obviously things
that bad Bunny can work on being more accountable for,
be more dynamic about, be more earnest about. But I
think that seeing that story and seeing him talk about
it in person is like that definitely took me away, right, Like,
you don't have many artists that like stand on their
square about what they care about in twenty twenty five

(21:38):
because of the reasons you're talking about, with the social
media backlash, with the politics of it all, and so
it feels refreshing when you see a megastar be like, no,
you have to come to me, you.

Speaker 1 (21:46):
Know, Mescota Son so on, and so I hate to
do it to you better Msssalio. Well, we rape back
right after these messages. Let's again know some way on freeze, we're.

Speaker 2 (21:58):
Gonna continue on.

Speaker 1 (21:59):
This tip is quite literally It's why I had to
pivot this damn podcast because I was like, you know,
these artists.

Speaker 2 (22:05):
Are not deep, bro, They're not deep.

Speaker 1 (22:07):
No, And I'm tired of being the only deep person
on the call.

Speaker 2 (22:12):
And I'm just like, I can't do this. I can't
do shout out to Heart.

Speaker 1 (22:16):
I love you so much, but like this podcast is
weekly and so I'm like I cannot fifty two weeks
of myself inspired by no, I can't do this, bro,
Like Trump is over here talking with Iran, and then I.

Speaker 2 (22:30):
Can't do this.

Speaker 1 (22:31):
I can't do this. There's too much going on in
the world. It's too much at stake. So I want
to go there with you. I'm so glad that you
went there, because girl, I would love your take on
everyone is like, Gota, I'm glad you did this pivot
because we're not supposed to look to these artists their
hot takes. These artists are Some people have gone as
far to say these artists are dumb. I'm like, I
won't go that far, you know, but like they're not

(22:52):
and so but this is a change. So I consider
myself an artist. I went to art school.

Speaker 2 (22:57):
I am.

Speaker 1 (22:58):
I may to put more my music out there, but
most importantly, like I critique the world. I have an opinion,
and like, more importantly, I create. That's you're an artist.
If you create, doesn't matter what you're mean, Absolutely you're
an artist.

Speaker 2 (23:11):
You create. Like with that said, what's your take on this?

Speaker 1 (23:14):
Because I've been really sad to like have so many
people agree with me on the sense of like like, yeah,
we shouldn't look for our recording artists to be heroes,
I agree, But also who are our heroes today? Like
what does that look like when these platforms in regards
to like these mega sized.

Speaker 2 (23:33):
Platforms being given the people who are that deep, they're
just not in abundance, you know.

Speaker 1 (23:37):
Like that's kind of what my contention is with it,
Like how many bad buddies do we really have?

Speaker 2 (23:43):
Like?

Speaker 3 (23:43):
Right?

Speaker 2 (23:44):
You know what I mean? Much? So, like who do
we turn to?

Speaker 1 (23:48):
And what does that say about us that we're looking
to turn to someone? What's your take on this? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (23:53):
So I have a couple of takes, right.

Speaker 4 (23:55):
The first one is I think, yes, it's true that
celebrity is.

Speaker 3 (23:59):
Not something we rely on right in general?

Speaker 4 (24:01):
Right, Like I have a friend who jokes on like
a lot of like celebrity interviewing and celebrity profiles is
trying to find people who are not that deep and
try to make them.

Speaker 3 (24:09):
As interesting as possible, right, you know, And.

Speaker 4 (24:11):
There's something to that, right where like you know, you're
trying to find these deep connections and then you interview
someone they're like, no, I just really felt like talking
about that today, and you're like, oh, well, I guess
you know what I mean, so there's a little bit
of that, right, But also, like art is political, All
art is political, and I fully believe that, And I
think a lot of people get caught up in the
idea of like art being political, as in, like you
have to express a political affiliation. But it's like the

(24:33):
choices you make indicate your value system, right. You know,
So if now that Trump and the administration is doing
everything and all of a sudden, you can't speak on racism,
even though you were doing it three years ago in
a different song, you have made a constructive decision that
your revenue matter is more than talking about the topics
you used to talk about, right. You know, if you

(24:54):
are all of a sudden adjusting the material of your music,
that is a political choice, even if you don't want
to call it that, right. You know, Like that Buddy's album,
for example, Yeah, it was about Puerto Rico and protecting
Puerto Rico, but he also extended that to something material, right,
saying Okay, I'm going to make this tour a Puerto
Rican tour. I'm going to actually separate myself from the
American touring industry, Right, And that matters for an artist

(25:16):
on his level, Right, I think the bare minimum though
that we can do, and this is the part that
really frustrates me is you can't have an artist and
like celebrate from them, to celebrate them from their art,
and then get upset when people hold them accountable to what.

Speaker 3 (25:30):
They claim to be right. You know, no one is
telling all of.

Speaker 4 (25:34):
These artists you have to claim activism, you have to
claim feminism, you have to claim pan Africanism, whatever the
case may be. Right, But if you are ascribing that
to yourself, if you are harnessing those things in your music,
it is fair to ask how do.

Speaker 3 (25:47):
You feel about this if you're going to use it
for profit?

Speaker 2 (25:49):
Right?

Speaker 4 (25:50):
And that's something that megastars on multiple levels get confronted on.

Speaker 1 (25:53):
Right.

Speaker 4 (25:53):
I think about burna Boy a lot, someone who you know,
people will say, oh, he does a lot of political
messaging in his music. He talks a lot out about
Nigeria and colonialism, but gets critiqued a lot for when
massive events happen in Nigeria and the country itself or
within the diaspora. Is usually a little bit delayed in
holding the political systems task because he's not performing in

(26:13):
that circumstance. You're actually a part of the of the populace, right,
and so when you think about like what your obligation is,
it's like, I think most of.

Speaker 3 (26:21):
Us are just trying to meet people where they are. Right.

Speaker 4 (26:24):
If you put a big sign behind me this as feminists,
I'm allowed to ask you if you're a feminist, right,
you know, if you decide, oh, I did this because
I'm a Panaphricaist, I'm allowed to ask what pan Africanism
means to you. But beyond like you know, wanting to
go to Ghana December, right, you know, I'm allowed to
ask these things. And that doesn't mean that I don't
find musical value in the art, right, But it does
mean that I find enough value that I'm respecting your

(26:45):
word and I'm asking you what those words mean. I
think people are so afraid to do that because we're
now at a point where people think that their interests
are have to match their values, right, And so if
you say something is a little bit you know, insufficient
or inadequate, it that's somehow seeing that they're inadequate and
they have that political taste, right, And it's like, no,
I exist with lots of contradictions. I watch reality television

(27:08):
and talk about it all the time, right, you know
who am I.

Speaker 3 (27:13):
To be? Like, Oh, what you consume is reflection of
who you are?

Speaker 4 (27:16):
Right, But it's like I want to have conversations about
what we consume, and I think people get very nervous
about that in a way that they shouldn't. Like I'm,
by no means gonna be the one to tell you
to stop listening to X y Z.

Speaker 1 (27:28):
Or quite literally and verbatim is quite literally why I
have critiques by Bunny but people don't get that. And
you so beautifully and I'm not going to add to that.
Just literally, you guys, hear hear what she said twice?
Rewind it, play it like a little bit please, because
I mean literally one point.

Speaker 2 (27:46):
And I have said just.

Speaker 1 (27:48):
To add like I have always said, like Ao Balvin,
you have I don't want to hear you talk about race.

Speaker 2 (27:56):
I don't. I don't want to do it.

Speaker 1 (27:57):
But you know what you can do. You could mic,
you know, you could pass it. Don't gotta be you.
I think it's like part of this is is that
you can use your power for good in other ways.
I think my money doesn't I think he does that
I can credit to him for that, like he has
a good buddy foundation. He puts on other artists who
are saying things.

Speaker 2 (28:19):
Ango.

Speaker 1 (28:19):
Maybe he doesn't have the range or maybe he doesn't
you know, but instead of sitting and dwiddling his thumbs,
he's passing it over to someone else.

Speaker 2 (28:25):
So good for him, you know, you be more done.

Speaker 1 (28:29):
Always does that like we need a pressure, as if
he's like the worst thing ever. No, And that's kind
of where I'm going next. These parasocial relationships.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
They're getting weird.

Speaker 1 (28:43):
I am not an a lister at all, maybe one day,
but even I have had like weird runnings of parasocial relationships.
I've had a stalker at three stalkers.

Speaker 3 (28:53):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 (28:54):
One of them girls.

Speaker 1 (28:56):
Found my ex boyfriend added him try to instigate the
recent with him, Like I Am not getting that.

Speaker 2 (29:05):
She was acting as if she was after Latina. She wasn't.

Speaker 1 (29:08):
She just learned Spanish and like had a Puerto Rican
best friend was African Americans, Like.

Speaker 4 (29:15):
It was, I mean, I want the rest stratch for
I was dominic on the weekends, you know.

Speaker 2 (29:18):
But like, let's be at least like you you're like
you're you. She was lone assuming.

Speaker 1 (29:28):
To try to get into like spaces she get into
editorial like where I was.

Speaker 2 (29:34):
It was very creepy. It was very creepy. She like
wanted my life anyway.

Speaker 1 (29:37):
All I have to say, parasocial relationships get fucking weird. Bro.
We're like, we're people like want to like extract certain
things from people. And I think you touched on it
a little bit. I just, you know, having mentioned this,
what is what do you want people to take away?

Speaker 2 (29:56):
If there's anything that you.

Speaker 1 (29:57):
Need people to know regarding parasocial relationships, what would that
be coming from you to be?

Speaker 3 (30:03):
The short version is you don't know these people, Like
you really don't know.

Speaker 4 (30:06):
These people, right, you know, Like like you said, you know,
I've had situations where people made a lot of assumptions
about me.

Speaker 2 (30:13):
My life, what I go through.

Speaker 4 (30:15):
After a certain point, I really try not to share
my personal life publicly in a very deep way, right,
you know, like talking about my family or whatever.

Speaker 3 (30:22):
I thought it.

Speaker 4 (30:22):
Wasn't necessarily safe for one, right, and for two, they
didn't ask to be talked about constantly, So I don't
want to extract their lives just for consumption purposes, right.
But like because of that, I've had people make a
lot of assumptions about my lifestyle, who I am, what
I have, what I have to offer, what I'm looking for,
the income I make whatever, right, you know, people who
assume I'm either dirt broke or swimming and like Twitter

(30:45):
verified cash.

Speaker 3 (30:46):
I don't really know for real.

Speaker 2 (30:48):
Right, you know.

Speaker 4 (30:50):
And it's like people will fill in the blanks to,
you know, whatever their perspective is of you, to make
them feel comfortable with that perspective, right, you know. So
it's oh, Shmier has always been a cloud chas certain
like I mean, okay, if you say so, Like I
don't even care enough to you know, rebut that if
that's how you feel, that's how you feel, right, you know,
or you know, or Shmiz just really wants to get

(31:10):
this pitch place.

Speaker 3 (31:11):
That's why she's talking so much about this, and I'm like,
I wish that was the case.

Speaker 2 (31:15):
You know.

Speaker 3 (31:16):
I just unfortunately run my mouth too much, right, I think?

Speaker 2 (31:20):
No, girl, take up all the springs.

Speaker 3 (31:23):
Listen.

Speaker 4 (31:23):
One thing I found out is, you know, like meeting
a lot of these celebrities, you know, having the good
fortune to interview them. Some of them are great, some
of them are terrible, some of them are just fine.
You know, it really depends your knowledge will vary it
especially depending on how you you know what you value. Like,
I really pay attention to if celebrities speak to their
team well, right, you know, are they polite? Are they

(31:44):
do they make a point to acknowledge them, Do they
make a point to thank them for the work that
they're doing, right?

Speaker 3 (31:48):
Or do they treat them like just people on staff
who are they're to do labor for them?

Speaker 1 (31:51):
Right?

Speaker 4 (31:52):
And like a lot of the like I've interviewed people
who I'm like, oh, man, Like, if people only knew
how annoying or insulting they were condescending, they were right,
you know. But I think in the grand scheme of things,
like even for like artists that I really love, I'm like,
I love you because you gave me something. You gave
me a piece of music. Right, I don't know you
as a person. I don't spend time with you. We're
not in a group chat together, right, you know what

(32:13):
I mean?

Speaker 3 (32:13):
And I don't know you.

Speaker 4 (32:15):
In that capacity to defend you or speak in you know,
in favor of you or against you in any sort
of way.

Speaker 2 (32:20):
Right.

Speaker 4 (32:21):
And I feel like, especially with younger people, there's such
an impulse to run and be like, oh, this must
be this, this or that, right, you know, And I
found it in the ways that people will attack your
own logically talk about other things, right, Like I have been,
you know, like I've been critical of rappers that I like, Like,
for example, I like megda Stallion.

Speaker 3 (32:36):
I've been openly critical of her.

Speaker 4 (32:38):
People like, oh, but you were just on Meg theae
Stallion's you know, a jock like last year, like, oh,
why'd you switch it up now? And it's like, I
didn't switch it up anything. I'm still listening to her.
I just have critiques, and I think I'm allowed to
have critiques, you know. And I wish more people would
be open to that, because I think it's way more
normal to be like I rock with this thing, and
I don't rock with this thing than to actually assume

(33:00):
that you love every single tig a person does. I
don't even love every single thing I do, much less
somebody else. Right, So you don't have to be a
one man army for these people.

Speaker 1 (33:08):
Yeah, and yeah, what you're getting into is duality and
like I approved this nothing to add like quite literally, yeah,
more than one thing can be true at the same time.
Hand if you're gonna take away and take away that
is exactly.

Speaker 2 (33:22):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (33:23):
So on the note of you had mentioned Meg, so
I'm gonna go there, you had tweeted because someone had wrote,
can I be honest about Meg? I don't think she
should signed to a label and wanted her to do so.
It is a bad business decision. Her being in her
being in charge of her own music deals and ventures
is because she's independent. She's playing a long games and

(33:44):
the label will cut it short. And then you wrote
her being her own boss is hampering her creatively. There's
upside and downsides to everything. But if she wants a
chance at making an album that shows her impressive ceiling
as an artist, she clearly needs a team to help
guide her there. And that's not the worst thing. She
can keep buying up Popeye franchise. I hate you Popeyes franchises,

(34:06):
but I personally would prefer good music that continues in
the vein of Bigger in Texas or the three track
run at the opening of Traumazin where she was wrapping
her ass off NDA into Ungrateful. It's such an underrated
one two punch. I approve this message. I agree, you
know like I feel like nobody could like operate alone,

(34:29):
you know, in the bigger war. I really hate to say,
more money, more problems. That's a real thing, but also creatively,
you know, and I never really thought about it till
like start your tweet. If you're Magna Stallion and you're
you're expected to deliver at a certain caliber, and so
that's going to require a lot more people. The better

(34:50):
the project, the next project is going to be even
more expensive. The next is going to be even more expensive,
and so that makes things harder. And so I think
she needed a Popeye sis, like the popl like like
she is that cash cow because you know, like when
you're independent, the money gotta come from somewhere, and they
got to come a little faster.

Speaker 2 (35:10):
So because I feel you like I agree, I agree, I.

Speaker 1 (35:14):
Just have laughingly really, but like let's talk about this
in the sense of like, yeah, these artists really do
need help, like being in the Let's just talk about
the sense of like being independent, Like, right, what is
your overall consensus on that? Because big or small, it's
just proven to be damn well impossible. But some people,

(35:35):
of course are making it work. Some people have their moments,
but overall, in my opinion, it's affecting artistry. Like we
don't have shacks we had it back in the day,
Like it's so different.

Speaker 2 (35:47):
What's your take on this?

Speaker 3 (35:49):
Yeah, you know, I.

Speaker 4 (35:50):
Think people really sensationalize the fantasy of being your own boss.

Speaker 2 (35:55):
Right.

Speaker 4 (35:55):
It's like, oh, nobody will tell me anything. I don't
have to be accountable to anybody. I run my own
thing as someone who's a full time freelancer. All if
someone could take the administrative stuff off my plate so
I could focus on the writing, that would be the
ideal situation. So much of my life is chasing on invoices,
chasing out checks, making sure I have all my accounting ready,
you know, doing all this administrative stuff, sending all these

(36:16):
emails that I don't care for it because it takes
away from the time I have to think and to write.
I can't really sit and think and write about the
interesting things I want to talk about if I'm so
focused on how I'm going to pay my rent next month, right,
you know.

Speaker 3 (36:29):
And so I spend a lot of time doing things
to make sure I.

Speaker 4 (36:31):
Can pay my rent next month, because getting I'm not
trying to give up a red stabilized apartment in New York, right, Like,
I'm trying to hold on to this as long as
I can, you know what I'm saying, And so, like
what do you think about that? For any artist? Like
that becomes a reality?

Speaker 1 (36:43):
You know.

Speaker 4 (36:43):
So Meg is the boss of her own industry and
she is independent, as you and I both know, being
independent does not make money.

Speaker 3 (36:50):
I mean music in general does not make money like that.

Speaker 4 (36:53):
Like, you know, a thousand streams get you a dollar
on Spotify, right, you know what I mean? Like, it's
no money for real, Right you see a billion that
person's maybe getting one thousand dollars for.

Speaker 3 (37:02):
A billion streams.

Speaker 4 (37:04):
It is not profitable right now to be a recording artist, right,
And so it makes sense then if you're independent to
do all these sponsorships to bring in the millions that
you can spend. The problem comes that when you're the
person holding so many different pots, right, you can't spend
as much time on the creative because you are the
person doing the endorsements, pitching the brand deals, going to meetings,
designing you know, clothing lines, making sure that your brand

(37:26):
is on things, producing TV shows, right, all this stuff
that keeps the money going in, but it makes music,
the actual creative stuff a little bit on the back burner.
That's the only way that it works, right. And the
other part of that is that when you are the boss,
even if you do have a team, because like men
does have a team right now, I want to potentially
doesn't right, But you're the boss, and so you're the
one signing everybody's check. How many people are going to

(37:47):
be willing to say, oh, yeah, no, I think you
should switch that beat. If you're the one paying their bills.
It's not even whether or not you're a good or
bad person. That's just how power balances work, right, you know.
And if you have an overseer, I don't like, if
you have someone who's gonna lie.

Speaker 2 (38:04):
I was like, I beg your pardon.

Speaker 1 (38:10):
Definitely was like no, no, no, no, no, wait.

Speaker 3 (38:12):
I don't know what I'm looking for?

Speaker 2 (38:13):
A manager?

Speaker 3 (38:15):
Yes, yes, hold on, this is what happens when you
talk fast. I mean you think faster and you talk
all of a sudden.

Speaker 1 (38:21):
I'm doing all the damn time, and the words be
seeping through and like, yo, I'm scaraming.

Speaker 2 (38:27):
That's so funny. Chill, okay, okay.

Speaker 4 (38:33):
But if you have a manager, or just someone else
to be accountable to, who is not relying on you.

Speaker 3 (38:38):
For a check.

Speaker 4 (38:39):
They could be the ones to be like, listen, you
know it's this song sounds cool, but you need a
better hook, you need something that makes it work, you
need a better beat.

Speaker 3 (38:46):
You need to switch us out for that, right.

Speaker 4 (38:48):
And I do think, and it's not just me, I
do think a lot of these independent artists are struggling
with how to make revenue and that comes at the
cost of their music. So, like another example is like
a lot of the independent artists like Larry June and
all of them in the Midwest that are putting out
albums once a month or like once every three months. Right,
They're trying to keep the output out so they can

(39:09):
tour on music. And like now, because of like demand
of streaming, they know that they have to constantly be
on top of everybody's you know, like memory. Right, So
they're constantly putting out something new. Bodie James will have
a new collaboration with Alchemists out maybe next month that
he had won a couple of months ago.

Speaker 2 (39:25):
Right.

Speaker 3 (39:25):
Freddie Gibbs is constantly putting out albums, and.

Speaker 4 (39:27):
You get why it's happening, and some of them, to
their credit, are true geniuses and are rapping at elite
levels despite the output.

Speaker 3 (39:34):
But there's a level of like you could make a
classic album. You could take your last.

Speaker 4 (39:38):
Five albums put them into one album that'd be the
album of the year, right, And instead we're getting like
small gems and these bigger albums that are filled with
things that you're like, Oh, you're trying to make this
fit a playlist algorithm. That's why you're keeping this outther
two minutes. Oh you have this sample because you hope
it's going to be on TikTok, Right, And I like
good art, so I just want better for all my
favorite artists.

Speaker 1 (40:05):
Again, girl, it's like it's just so refreshing to talk
with someone who gets it, because like.

Speaker 4 (40:12):
It's hard, and like I empathize, right, Like you have
to pay the bills, and at a certain level of celebrity, right,
you got to keep the money revenue rolling in and
when you pay out your agent and your manager all
these other things, then that's the part you work with.
But like I said, there's upsides to downside to everything, Right,
there's a reason why a lot of writers don't like
being freelancers want to be on staff. It's not because
they don't want to make as much money as possible,

(40:33):
but because you decide that, like the comfort and benefits
that come with being out of publication is like your
ability to actually write creatively.

Speaker 1 (40:41):
Right.

Speaker 4 (40:41):
And similarly, I don't think a label is for everybody, right,
you know, but for some people it would be helpful
to be there for a search of time, if for
no other reason then to get a sense of structure
about how they think things would run for themselves. Like
I don't think you get the Beyonce of now without
her having like a lot of hand holding from Matthew
Knows and that management team, and now she understands what

(41:03):
she needs an operation to look like and she can
take that.

Speaker 3 (41:06):
And run right, you know.

Speaker 4 (41:07):
So I think there's a lot of different ways to
do it. But affortunately now everything has been devalued. Art
has been excessively devalued, and so in the money grabs
are the way that people are going. And it's not
like I don't get it, girl, I got paychecks to
you know, I need to build Painty's bills.

Speaker 2 (41:22):
But I.

Speaker 4 (41:24):
Really wish that people cared more about making the music stronger.

Speaker 1 (41:28):
Yes, and you know where my brain went after I
was like I I'm echoing that, and in part I
blame the fans. I'm like, I this is kind of
like where I've been and not completely just for those
to take that sound bite and like cut me up,
like not completely like there's blame of me put on
various sides here, but on the size of the fans.

Speaker 2 (41:51):
Like I wish people would give artists more grace.

Speaker 1 (41:54):
Look at how people are cutting up normany right, and
she actually had I believe, a sick parent, and it's like,
we have real life shit going on in their real lives,
Like do we want, you know, a quality things like
from our artists, Like let's give them some grace. Granted, Rihanna,
she's taken a while, and I think I think R

(42:15):
nine is nine and ninth kid, you.

Speaker 4 (42:18):
Know what I mean things Listen, I gave my piece
with Rihanna's retirement. I don't know if everybody else has I.

Speaker 2 (42:26):
Hold it on. I'll hold it on.

Speaker 1 (42:27):
I'm just like I feel her, like as a thirty
seven year old woman now myself I'm thirty one. It's
like I feel her if I a pop one, I'm
a Papa mall and then we're gonna fix it up
and then we're gonna go on.

Speaker 2 (42:39):
You feel me, let her, let her pop off.

Speaker 1 (42:43):
And once the kids are at an age where speaking
of someone I'm purely projecting, I'm not a mom, but
I wouldn't get back into work until my kids could
talk to me and tell me what the fuck is
going on?

Speaker 2 (42:53):
Because until then, yes, I want to see you, so
like until then, like just.

Speaker 4 (42:57):
Let her cook, literally right, and she's earned a hiatus.

Speaker 3 (43:01):
You dropped seven holbums in seven years. You get to
take a break, you know.

Speaker 1 (43:05):
And I'm excited because like when she comes back, I
am fully I'm fully in.

Speaker 2 (43:10):
Maybe I'm delusional. I don't know, maybe I am, but.

Speaker 1 (43:13):
Like when she comes by, she's gonna be in her
forties and it's gonna be like a whole new revolution
because she's gonna be older. And then now we're gonna
have this whole conversation about agism and it's gonna be
a That's another thing that's like really straining us too,
because instead of like giving flowers and grace to people
who have the age and like the experience, we're also

(43:36):
like in this energy where like we're always looking for
the hot young thing. I'm like, sometimes hot young thing
doesn't have shit to say or to give us, you
know what I mean, And like I don't know. Sometimes
we don't like appreciate people who for better about the block,
Like I don't know, I kill my body.

Speaker 2 (43:51):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (43:52):
So like listen, I agree one hundred percent.

Speaker 4 (43:56):
I think about how the clips like handle their higher
you know, roll out and marketing for the last year,
you know, like to think about holding an album for
a year, going to the press, like coming back after
fifteen year hiatus, taking the opportunity to be like we're
telling our story on our terms for our audience and
meet us where we are, you know. And they didn't

(44:16):
try to compromise what they sound like, they didn't try
to compromise like the things that they communicated, They said,
this is what we rap about, right, you know, we're
gonna stick to to our sold We're not gonna try
to chase the current trends. And if you like it, great,
you know, we'll give you a full production. If you don't,
then go seek something else. And they reap the benefits
of sticking true to themselves. And I really hope that
inspires other legacy acts, especially in hip hop, which, like

(44:40):
a lot of people feel like, is a young man's
sport to be able to be like, yes, I can
be forty five and still rap and still find a
market and still tour if that's what you want to do, right,
you know, you don't have to think, oh my god,
I hit thirty, it's over right, you know, I really
hope less unless people think that, you know, hip hop
was you know, like a child's you know game, when
it was kids and teenagers learning music at the park.

Speaker 3 (45:02):
Now it's fifty years old, you get to have middle
aged people. I'm so sorry.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
I'm laughing because as you stayed this, I'm thinking about
Mary J. Blich.

Speaker 3 (45:10):
Okay, well, I don't think Mary wants the tour.

Speaker 2 (45:13):
Unfortunately on more Bro, I really want to know what's.

Speaker 3 (45:15):
Going on because my listen, she's.

Speaker 2 (45:18):
In these books.

Speaker 4 (45:18):
I love Mary down, but I'm playing the Legends Ballance
after this tour because she is clearly over it, and
I hate that her as husband seems that I've kept
her in this financial binde because there's nothing more uncomfortable
than really realizing that your favorite artist does not want
to be there.

Speaker 2 (45:37):
Yo, I just I've been seeing her knew step and
repeating him.

Speaker 4 (45:40):
I'm like, I just want to give her home, Like
someone just needs to give her a boot line and
an earring line so she could make some passive income
for Mary.

Speaker 1 (45:50):
We love you Mary respectfully, like are we see you?
We see you, and we see it like hi key,
oh no, I want more for black women starting.

Speaker 3 (45:58):
With Mary, like I'm gonna pivot.

Speaker 1 (46:08):
Okay, So a lot of your work we've been, we've been,
we got into hip hop, so we're kind of in
this question already. But a lot of your work covers
hip hop, and I of course covered your thone, and
you grew up around the mannic and the Puerto Ricans,
and like you're not in a by extension like you're
franch francophone.

Speaker 4 (46:28):
Like she's she's right right exactly exactly like whatever.

Speaker 1 (46:33):
And so if you had a hot take comparing and
contrasting yourtone from hip hop, considering what's going on right now,
what would it.

Speaker 3 (46:42):
Be a hot take?

Speaker 4 (46:46):
M I think my hot take is more so around
the current diaspora conversation about who owns the thone?

Speaker 3 (46:54):
Right, you know?

Speaker 4 (46:55):
I think my hot take is that hip hop, like
is not something that is necessarily owned by anybody, right
you know, Like I think it's own in the sense
that there's originators, there's influencers, right you know, but a
lot of Black cultural production, the history of it is
that we exchange with each other and then we build
off those exchanges, that we build something new, and then
the next generation comes to build something new, and we
all kind of build a way.

Speaker 3 (47:15):
To communicate with each other.

Speaker 1 (47:16):
You know.

Speaker 4 (47:16):
James Brown went to you know, West Africa to play
blues music with like Malai and guitarists, right, you know,
you see all this all the time. And I think,
you know, both are gathon and hip hop are in
the space of people feeling threatened by it expanding and it,
you know, being co opted by other spaces, right and
a zone obviously has that current lawsuit is ongoing, and

(47:37):
I think that, like the obsession with ownership is besides
the point, right you know, it's what are the principles
of the genre of what it takes to participate in
a culture?

Speaker 2 (47:47):
Right you know?

Speaker 4 (47:48):
Are you participating in that culture? Are you contributing to it?
Are you acknowledging it? If you are, then I think
that more people should be invited to be able to
participate if they need a specific standard, as opposed to
acting like you cannot participate at all unless you are
part of X y Z demographic. Like that's my general
feeling of it, right, you know. So like I'm a

(48:09):
New Yorker, I have very particular feelings about just like
you know, hip hop being a New York genre, right,
you know, I have very strong feelings about living up town.
I have lived in the Bronx all this, like how
I feel about hip hop, right, But like I had
to learn to find interesting things about you know, California
rap and rapp in the Midwest and whatever, right, you know,
Like I don't I could sit here be like, oh,
this is not what I grew up on.

Speaker 3 (48:29):
This doesn't feel good to me.

Speaker 4 (48:30):
It's like, no, well, it's there's something compelling there for somebody, right,
so let's figure out what it is. I think the
same thing about just the wave of Deathon, right, you know.
Now it's you know, obviously it's black Columbian artists. I mean,
we talk about this extensively. Who are taking over this space?
And I don't think the question is more so that
Columbian artists can't contribute. It's that how are you contributing,
why and to what extent? Right? You know, are you

(48:51):
contributing to you know, the mestizaha, the increased messidia of
the genre, or are you ignology?

Speaker 3 (48:56):
This is a black genre.

Speaker 4 (48:58):
I want to honor that, and I want to make
make sure that what I do is in that spirit right.
And I think that's the bigger conversation than the like
who owns the copyright to a genre?

Speaker 1 (49:16):
I want y'all who are listening to know that we
didn't practice, we didn't rehearse.

Speaker 3 (49:21):
No, no, not at all.

Speaker 2 (49:23):
This is her.

Speaker 1 (49:24):
Okay, y'all gonna say Lord that people really need to
way because a Latin swears that.

Speaker 2 (49:29):
Like, oh Goda's just like not happy, and I'm like,
that's it.

Speaker 1 (49:32):
I'm like and I'm like, it's not that it's coming
from somewhere. I'm not a research sy no.

Speaker 3 (49:38):
No, I've just also been lucky.

Speaker 4 (49:40):
I grew up like I think the benefit of being
in New York, to be quite honest, is am I
bad for cutting off?

Speaker 3 (49:46):
I do think.

Speaker 4 (49:47):
I do think the benefit for growing up in New
York is that I was lucky enough in the nineties
and two thousand to witness the birth of so many
diasporic scenes firsthand. You know, I remember specifically when Mooney
Tunes Musk flow Oh dropped because I was in high
school and we were out on one D First Street
going to the functions.

Speaker 3 (50:06):
You know what I mean. Like, I remember what it
was like when Daddy and He became huge.

Speaker 4 (50:09):
I remember going to college and thinking that everybody knew
dance holl reggae because I live in New York and
people ask me to translate what Sean Paul said, and
I'm like, what do you mean translate?

Speaker 2 (50:18):
You know what?

Speaker 1 (50:19):
I like?

Speaker 4 (50:21):
You know, And one thing about me navigating different spaces
is that I really find out that, like, we have
these same conversations in so many different iterations in different spaces.
Hip hop is worried about the dilution of it going global.
Guittone is worried about the dilution of it going global
and not centuring Puerto Rico and Banama and these spaces

(50:41):
that have been really foundational to the genre. Right, you
know who else is having those conversations Gomba and zook artists. Right,
you have huge legends like Ayaanakamura and France who are
doing a lot of compa and zoop influence sounds, but
they're not you know, amplifying Haitian and Guadalupin and Marnique
and artists right Bon out of Dominica and.

Speaker 3 (51:02):
You know, out of.

Speaker 4 (51:02):
Guadaloupe is getting huge right beyond Shata, right, but not
a lot of people know these sounds, but it's now
huge in Europe and in western Central Africa. Girl, we're
all contending with it, like people.

Speaker 3 (51:14):
Sorry, I have to go.

Speaker 1 (51:15):
So that is true talk. I blame TikTok, like the
way people are like, oh, what is this sound? This
is dope, And I guess that's the cool way to
like because we can really go forever. But like I
have two things this and I have another question. But
like Carl, so I get on TikTok and they'll hear
a sound and there's like this phenomenon. It's funny because

(51:35):
it relates back right back to what you were saying
about Raghatton right right now. There's something called edit and
edic is quite literally like in dragatone, just like in
dance because it's based in dancehall, there are rhythms, So
the mixtape there are rhythm like quite little sounds that
I used over and over that different people wrap over.

Speaker 2 (51:56):
It's a dancehall tradition. It's a Jamaican tradition.

Speaker 1 (51:59):
So some kid, I don't know if this is Mexico, Brazil,
they heard one like it a mixtape, I think it
was forty or forty two, and they heard one song,
Oh that's dope, and then they heard the beat and
then they were like they basically carried out the tradition
and that they were like, this one song is going
to be our new rhythm and we're gonna call it anything.
And so now this all like generation of kids calling

(52:21):
this music and got that and I'm like, bro, that's pederal.

Speaker 2 (52:24):
Like it's coming from right this mixtape.

Speaker 1 (52:27):
You discovered nothing with your Christopher Columbus ass and like,
I don't know what to do with this, but yes,
it's happening right now in Europe, and it's so particular,
so interesting on how co opted because it's like it's
by the whole DJ movement going out over there and
like this remixing movement, and I blame TikTok.

Speaker 2 (52:46):
I blame TikTok. I don't know. That's what I have
to say. My last question because God knows. I don't
want to. I don't want to stand at all. But
is that girl? Have you watched Rhythm and Flow?

Speaker 3 (52:56):
I watched the first season. I did not watch the
second season, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (53:00):
Which I think gives you a second of how I
think about it.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
I need you to know, but I need you to
watch it. Okay, let's this.

Speaker 1 (53:07):
So what were your thoughts in the first season, because
I thought it was particularly good. Not gonna lie in
regards to the curation. In regards to like the judges,
the judges were stilet Cardi has her personality, but like
even then her being.

Speaker 2 (53:23):
Harsh on hip hop.

Speaker 1 (53:24):
I appreciated her being harsh on like what got to pass?

Speaker 2 (53:28):
And not?

Speaker 1 (53:29):
I'm appreciated, you know, even as flirty and fun as
she is, it's like she still had her you know,
she had her head on.

Speaker 2 (53:35):
Her shoulders regards for her decision making.

Speaker 1 (53:38):
There were some artists I felt like they could have
gone home soon, and there was some that I felt
like way to the end.

Speaker 2 (53:43):
But damn, I.

Speaker 1 (53:45):
Really need you to have watched the second one, because
the second one first, I'll.

Speaker 3 (53:49):
Definitely, I'll definitely check out the second season.

Speaker 4 (53:52):
There's also an equivalent in France, like they franchised it,
so there's a French version which I have watched as well.
But so what I my short feelings are honest is
that there's a lot of talent. Like the first season,
d Smoke Won, I thought De Smoke deserved to win
was a very talented rapper, comes from like a very
musical family or whatever, right, But I think my big
issue is that, like I didn't think that like the

(54:13):
conversation or like the challenges were rooted into like how
hip hop works today, right, Like I think there was
a lot of foundation, like the traditional elements of hip hop.
Can you freestyle well, can you like do certain things
off the cuffwall, can you battle well? And all those
are like good skills. But if you understand how like
hip hop works as a genre, like a money making genre,
like battle rap is one specific corner of hip hop, right,
there are people who are battle rap technicians, like the

(54:35):
loaded Luxes, right, who cannot make a hit song to
save their lives. Just why you have someone like cardiing
a panel, even if you don't view her as like
a hip hop technician, she understands how it hit works, right,
you know?

Speaker 3 (54:46):
And so I think My big.

Speaker 4 (54:47):
Criticism was I had hoped that, Okay, you've picked the
best natural rappers that you hear, you pick the people
with the most potential, but you do more work to
help them establish careers. Right because D Smoke already had
a musical family, he already had those resources. His brother
is literally served right, you know, like, and so it's like,
what he's not. He's not necessarily looking for a affirmation

(55:09):
of talent. He wants the resources to be able to
have a viable life as a musician. And I wish
there was more of that, these conversations about how to
build a vible life as an artist. And I think
that's my big criticism over it. Right, But the talent
out of this world, right, I think that's one thing
you know that I love to see people who like
might have these passions, but like don't like just because

(55:29):
being an artist is not your full time job right
now does not mean that's not something you can nurture.

Speaker 3 (55:33):
And watching people.

Speaker 4 (55:33):
Who are like, yeah, I do this right now, I
do this right now, but I never stop rapping.

Speaker 3 (55:37):
It's always going to beautiful for me to see.

Speaker 1 (55:42):
He thought, I saw.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
You and the society We'll be right by right after
getting up some way on free.

Speaker 4 (55:55):
People who are able to continue to pursue their artistry
as artists and just still pursue their passion, like even
despite all the other limitations. I think it's beautiful to see.
And I think that's the biggest thing for me. Right
It's like watching all these people come up and say, yeah,
I'm a ESL teacher, I'm a Spanish teacher, right, Like
knowing that d Smoker rap in Spanish was great to see,
you know what I'm saying, you know, but like saying like,

(56:16):
I never stopped working on my artistry, and I think
giving people the opportunity to pursue their dreams is great.
I just want people to be able to have those
dreams be sustainable as well.

Speaker 1 (56:27):
Spoor it up in the sodio for six years. But
I'm gonna stop hiding. I'm gonna stop hiding. I got
like now that I.

Speaker 3 (56:33):
Know, I'm gonna be on you about it.

Speaker 2 (56:35):
Because girl, it's time. It's time.

Speaker 1 (56:37):
Like it was to the point where you know, and
this is publicly known. I have to drop a single
last year, recorded a demo because I'm here. I'm here
sharing songs where people who say they want to have fun,
and then they trying to steal my ship. And it's like,
so apparently it's good and me to go out here
and just own my shit. So I'm gonna do that.
And and to add to that because I have nothing

(56:59):
to add to like season one, but season two, I
think with a lot of what you just said regarding
that there were elements of hip hop in the room.

Speaker 2 (57:08):
We could see it.

Speaker 1 (57:08):
It's instant in the room. I love that question on Twitter.
It's the thing right, yeah, with us exactly.

Speaker 2 (57:15):
Pop was in the room with us, for sure. They
brought out Luda and I screamed.

Speaker 1 (57:19):
I was like, ah, they brought up I screamed, and oh,
you know, I just feel like in combination, Oh, there
was a lot of balls that were dropped.

Speaker 2 (57:29):
You got slim shit here, you got I just it
was it wasn't giving.

Speaker 1 (57:36):
And I super agree with you on the sense of like,
for example, the whole battle wrap thing and the freestelling thing.
I consider myself a rapper. Cannot freestyle to save my life.

Speaker 3 (57:45):
Don't put me in the corner.

Speaker 2 (57:46):
I can catch them. Listen, you give me a thirtieth try,
I'll get it. Eventually. I'm black I can do it.
I off rip you know, that's a specific Honestly, I.

Speaker 4 (57:55):
Feel like jay Z and the Wade ruined everybody for that,
right know, like because Jay told everybody he doesn't write
down his wraps and Wayne just goes in the mic
and does examporaneous speech, right, and so everyone thinks.

Speaker 3 (58:09):
Exactly, everyone thinks you have to do it. It's like, no,
they do that. Do what works for you.

Speaker 4 (58:13):
If you need a petit pod, get a petit the pad,
rather you write it down than just going to the
boots saying nonsense.

Speaker 2 (58:19):
Right right, No, Yeah, So there's definitely elements of that.

Speaker 1 (58:25):
I dra tl who won first of all, and no
more like I.

Speaker 2 (58:30):
Fell in love with him, my dude.

Speaker 1 (58:32):
And I was just completely in shock. I still don't
get it, and I'm torn on this too. I so
want you to watch this, watch this and tweet me please,
because well I will.

Speaker 2 (58:43):
There was get that ego.

Speaker 1 (58:45):
There was moments where people were like, there, there's for
sure evolution on screen, and I appreciated that. I appreciated
that became episode one. So I don't know if it
was eight. It was definitely growth. It was definitely on
an client and there were artists who were already like
establishing their artistry in the sense of like they knew
exactly who they were, exactly what their message was, exactly

(59:07):
where they're going, exactly where they've been, and exactly where they.

Speaker 2 (59:10):
Don't want to go like that.

Speaker 1 (59:11):
That was clearest day for certain artists, but for greatto
you could tell like there was an evolution, So there
was a there was a part like in Falling in
Love because of the evolution. And it's like, at the
same time, I think the bigger question of what the
show answered was, and I think you touched on it
as well, is how do we reward hip hop in
twenty in the late twenty twenties versus in the twenty tens,

(59:35):
versus in the thousands, versus in the nineties. It's all
very different, you know, Like, right, does a kim a
little Kim aesthetic and like rapping of it all, the
nikky aesthetic rapping of it all, like even the cardio
aesthetic rapping of it all.

Speaker 2 (59:50):
Does that work today in comparison to what it did
when it was their time? I don't know.

Speaker 1 (59:55):
I really need to take girl, That's what I'm going
to add. And I'm for those who are listening to
chew on that. But for the very last we went
around the world.

Speaker 2 (01:00:03):
We really did. But is there anything I haven't asked
you that you would like to answer?

Speaker 1 (01:00:09):
And then in combination with that, what are you mesmerized
by right now?

Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
In Culture's a lot going on in the world, But
what is what is taking your breath away?

Speaker 3 (01:00:19):
Oof, that's a good question mesmerized by?

Speaker 4 (01:00:23):
I think if I think about what I'm mesmerized by
is the various ways that certain people are choosing to
use their art to do different things right or like
actually speak truth to power.

Speaker 3 (01:00:35):
Like I think about someone like Keilani right, you know, who.

Speaker 4 (01:00:38):
Is continuing to put out great R and B but
choosing not to abandon her principles when she is talking
about the things that mattered to her and sacrificing contracts.
I think about someone like No Name right, who was
called out once about capitalism and that turned into an
entire you know.

Speaker 3 (01:00:54):
Book club that is international.

Speaker 4 (01:00:55):
I was in Nairobi and met people who were part
of No Names book club, who were fans of hers.
Like to realize that you could really have that impact,
that there's some people who are genuinely pursuing that I
think that's what gives me hope, and that's what excites me, right,
people who are like still trying to find a way
even though things feel really bleak, because it does feel bleak,
Like I think that a lot of us do wake

(01:01:16):
up these days and really do feel like, oh my god,
how can we change anything?

Speaker 3 (01:01:19):
Everything feels so defeating.

Speaker 4 (01:01:21):
The people who have money and resources are fully given
up on us, right, you know, they've fully seeded power
to authoritarianism. And then you watch people who choose to
stand up and you're like, Okay, you know, whether they're
a celebrity or not, they're making their principles known, and
so why can't I do the same thing with mine.
I think that's what keeps me enchanted about the power

(01:01:42):
of art.

Speaker 1 (01:01:43):
I'm sorry, I just thought about a tweet that's like
yesterday and she saw this white guy and she told
the white guy like them, we're in an economic recession.

Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
He's like, are we? Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:00):
I was like, oh my, I like threw my laptop
like you know why, and everybody was like, you're not
even you just gotta like call you broke like that,
and I was like I literally cried, like real tears
and I was like, fun, I was like, he ate
her up, but like, I'm sorry, said not we I

(01:02:21):
don't speak French girl, I don't know what you just said, beautiful.

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (01:02:25):
I don't mean to be so silly, but like that
just brought me back, brought.

Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
Me there because it's like, yo, that us it is.

Speaker 1 (01:02:35):
It is bleak for some of us, and I think
that's the problem because there's a lot of us who
don't deserve to like really like experience said bleakness, and
I guess this is akaitifu eni son. I remember, oh
got this election? I remember, you know when Camelin and

(01:02:56):
Trump before he won. We're going at it. And I
was like, okay, can we have honest if you want
me to chime in. I don't think you guys want
me to chime in. I don't think you're gonna like
everything I gotta say because I'm so anti Trump, of course,
And also, can we have a real conversation on how
Democrats are dropping the fucking.

Speaker 2 (01:03:13):
Ball, like do we got to how long are we
going to send this?

Speaker 1 (01:03:16):
I was drinking the kool Light heavy when it was
Biden versus heavy because I was so tired of like
Trump just talking and just being rude and like the shit.

Speaker 2 (01:03:27):
And I was like, oh my gosh, the fuck up.

Speaker 1 (01:03:28):
Like I was just like ready for like that to
just go off, you know, to the point of which
what I went to this president who like basically, yes,
has An has continued the legacy of various structures of
violence that has existed throughout the course of America. So
it's like, how when are we going to have that

(01:03:49):
real conversation? And so I remember, you know, like when
it came specifically down the camera Biden has dropped out.
There was this conversation regarding I had wrote in one
my captions if someone checked me and I appreciated it.
I was like, we don't deserve to have We deserve more.
And then someone was like, deserve comes from a praise
of privilege, and I was like, you know what, you

(01:04:11):
ain't me with that, because what is deserved from being
from this imperiallest nation.

Speaker 2 (01:04:16):
Of course, granted, there's a lot of things I didn't
subscribe to.

Speaker 1 (01:04:19):
There's a lot like granted, like I didn't sign up this,
I didn't sign up for my money to be used
for that, you know. But granted, regardless of that, there's
still this positionality that exists, you know, regardless of anything,
that we benefit at the end of the day from
a certain level of power because of where we are
and the country that we're all like, you know, inhumity,

(01:04:42):
and that this directly negatively affects other people. What are
three sixty in this conversation? And so this just pretty
much brought me there in regards to like this idea
of what the hell we deserve, right and what the
hell you know what that even means? And you know,
I guess on the note, I'm looking at you and

(01:05:04):
I'm hearing what you're saying, and this is making me
think of that conversation of black women deserving black women rest,
black women be mammied lately and regards to don't got
you to do with us and like and also black
women also just resting. So like, I don't know I
had all of that to say. I just pretty much

(01:05:25):
rambled pretty much. But yeah, if you have anything to
add to that, because that's just yeah, it's the bigger
picture in regards to this whole resilience that you're speaking
to now.

Speaker 3 (01:05:40):
Yes, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 4 (01:05:42):
And I also think this is the last thing I'll
say about that which is tied it a little bit
back to music, which is that sometimes we have to
have a little self awareness. It's part of a greater
diaspora of like, yes, what we contribute to and what
we are leading conversations about versus what matters, right, you know,
Like you mentioned like being in an imperial course. Sometimes
it feels like so much of the work is to
get acknowledgment.

Speaker 2 (01:06:03):
Right.

Speaker 4 (01:06:04):
I remember when I firstart writing about Francophone music. What
I thought was so.

Speaker 3 (01:06:07):
Important was I need to get more French.

Speaker 4 (01:06:09):
Records in Pitchfork reviews, right, you know, I need to
get more people to know who these artists are, right,
you know. And I think that was happening a lot
in the mid twenty tens with the musical Bana and
all that.

Speaker 3 (01:06:19):
Right, Like, we need to get people to understand who
these artists are.

Speaker 4 (01:06:22):
And then you get that and then think shift, right,
because now you're doing all the work to preserve that status,
all the work to preserve the dominance of afrobeads, the
dominance of ragon, right, the dominance of amapiano, whatever these
genres are, right, and like it doesn't even seem to
necessarily align with the needs of the artists, but it
aligns with something to us where we get to validate,
like we brought this here, right, we are the evangelists

(01:06:45):
to bring it here. And I think one of the
things I've been trying to think more about is like
maybe that's not the victory, you know what I'm saying, Like, yes,
America has like one of the largest music markets, but
maybe the victory is being able to go there and
meet them there and see what their needs are in
the industry there, right, you know. And sometimes that can
be hard to see because it's like I want all

(01:07:07):
my major artists to have a night at MSG that
I can go see if for nothing else that I
can just hop on the trade right after, right, you know.
But I do think that there's value in really understanding
what artists.

Speaker 3 (01:07:17):
Need in the global South, what we need.

Speaker 4 (01:07:19):
As we're trying to transition through like such a hostile time,
and like working towards honoring that as opposed to like
whatever version of success we think exists.

Speaker 1 (01:07:30):
And on that note, beautifully said, I got no more
things to add, my love, thank you so much for.

Speaker 3 (01:07:37):
Meank you, thank you truly me Hanta.

Speaker 2 (01:07:44):
Until next week child, And that was a lot of.

Speaker 1 (01:08:00):
Effort from me, I'm done here from one of you.

Speaker 2 (01:08:03):
They had him think you know what time it is?
The time for hold, I'm.

Speaker 1 (01:08:06):
Feeling let's get right into it. So there's a lot
of things going on in the world right now, including
a Denta side in Palestine.

Speaker 2 (01:08:23):
What is your take on that? What do you have
to add or say about that? I mean, I think
it's it's it's really devastating and a fortunate that not
more people or you know about it or you know.

Speaker 5 (01:08:34):
That they can't say the moviecau or the financial ties
that they're being impacted.

Speaker 2 (01:08:39):
So I think there is general more easy not you
don't mean to me say like go back to its
roots and say speaking of resistance and.

Speaker 5 (01:08:47):
Speaking of being this successful and you know safety posign
in general. You know, ray Zone was a music covers
a music about the pecenta Fu similar adapt these music
have like I'm all.

Speaker 2 (01:09:03):
To become like now a mainstream It's unfortunately you hear
about uh.

Speaker 5 (01:09:09):
Coming back to the roofs of just saying what's what's
the reality, which is you should be speaking about the justice.

Speaker 1 (01:09:16):
Thank you, prepay, I'm happy, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:09:23):
Your name man? Why are you probably.

Speaker 1 (01:09:26):
Nice for me?

Speaker 2 (01:09:27):
Thanks for happy You're ready to answer some questions on
hang okay? So then, man, what was your in?

Speaker 5 (01:09:36):
Probably Moonfo It was an album called.

Speaker 2 (01:09:41):
The Maistic Between Crown. I had those one roight up?
What up? And who would you say is like your
Mount Rushmore? I would say.

Speaker 5 (01:10:01):
Dodian Bad Bunny, and I'm gonna goro a DJ and
I'm gonna probably say d J Black.

Speaker 2 (01:10:08):
Why why all of these selections? I think DJ Blass.

Speaker 5 (01:10:12):
Like you put a lot of artists together and all
by so the girl and created a lot of collaborations
with the up and coming artists and.

Speaker 2 (01:10:21):
He's not created Daddy Yankee and it.

Speaker 5 (01:10:24):
So you know, we basically my father drama like to
us popularly at some.

Speaker 2 (01:10:30):
Point in the two thousand or monks it.

Speaker 5 (01:10:33):
On was like I brought her frustrateds like he's like
not us, and he was basically does like grab Amra.

Speaker 2 (01:10:44):
Who else gonna say that? Bad buddy? You know took
it to another lot of most recently and just and
just like hate Nave. I don't really know what it is.

Speaker 3 (01:10:53):
I wasn't work.

Speaker 5 (01:10:53):
It's a chilling worldwide and you wing you either thing.
She basically until they gave them man for woman.

Speaker 2 (01:11:03):
You know already in the noise in her right up?

Speaker 3 (01:11:09):
Thank you?

Speaker 2 (01:11:10):
And okay, so the man, what is your heart take? Okay?
Not everyone used to have and like some.

Speaker 3 (01:11:20):
Artists are are really good at the.

Speaker 2 (01:11:24):
Singles and collaboration albums or even collaborate or you said,
you know we collabor but I don't think everyone.

Speaker 1 (01:11:31):
Times And what was your intro to like how did
you get him to like? And I got out don man,
like how did you.

Speaker 2 (01:11:40):
Get hip to like?

Speaker 1 (01:11:40):
Drop?

Speaker 2 (01:11:41):
And say how long have you been listening to it?
Like what's your story? What you look like? My exposure
and was.

Speaker 5 (01:11:51):
Probably blas els my slowfl Sir ste like hearing it
and likesanas like you see like rio superto exclus into
it makes me want to find the music even like
things like the internet itself, you know, download the music.

Speaker 2 (01:12:15):
We hit the.

Speaker 5 (01:12:18):
That just like it's created different level of expound.

Speaker 3 (01:12:24):
Right up?

Speaker 2 (01:12:24):
What up? Mascotta? Something so and if you know what
time it is?

Speaker 1 (01:12:31):
It's some for last Flowtusts and I Heard Media production
co executive produced by net Shake It Easy Media. The
Ghetto produced by Grace Gonstalis. The Ghetto edited by Waking
Coltler Like ghetto. Shout out to my production assistance Naomi Asabo,
Kayla Ecleston, and shout out to Habbi Vibes.

Speaker 2 (01:12:54):
I'm your host, Lagata.

Speaker 1 (01:12:55):
See you right here next week on the iHeartRadio app, Spotify, Apple,
wherever you listen.

Speaker 2 (01:13:01):
No mama, mm hmm

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