April 18, 2022 • 44 mins
We kick off our rewatch of Episode 2 with the age-old question: should Clary have gone with Simon or Jace? While Dom says Simon, budding relationships are everywhere - from Clace to Sizzy to the best connection of all: the one between the show and its fans.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Cat. Why are we always waiting for you? You know,
not always, not always. This morning, my internet was being sunky.
But here I am an actual excuse, a solid excuse.
I was late yesterday because a frog stole my shoes.
It's how ridiculous excuses sound. I'm gonna I'm gonna write
a strongly worded letter to that frog, because you know
what's weird is when you lose one shoe. How's that possible?
(00:23):
How do you lose one shoe? Like? I put them
on together. I never left the apartment or the house
with one shoe. I never came back with Well maybe
there are times where I've come back we just one shoe.
But it's weird, wet, like when I take them off,
I put them together, like those two shoes are together.
It's a strange. Anyways, I'm gonna guess Dan or Rajah
(00:43):
may have had something to do with that. I don't
think Rajah. Dan does Dan, But Dan tends to take
shoes and bring them to me. Dan, for everyone who
doesn't know, is not a child that I'm keeping under wraps.
Here is my dog. He's my golden retriever, and he
likes to bring my shoes to me every now and then,
just to remind me that he there and he loves me,
and that's very sweet. Anyway, that was all nonsense. What
(01:04):
we should be talking about is welcome back to episode
two of Return to the Shadows. Hello, Shadow fam, welcome
(01:46):
back to the podcast. We get to talk about a
brand new episode with you. Guys were very excited about it. Yes.
In episode two, the race is on to find the
Mortal Cup and Clary's mother. Clary's memories may have been
the key to finding her mother and the Mortal Cup.
With knowledge the Valentine is alive and on the hunt
for the Mortal Cup, the Institute is on high alert.
No wanting to waste time, Jay's pumps into action and
(02:08):
figures that Clary's memories are the key to finding Jocelyn
and the Mortal Cup. Unfortunately, Clary's memories were wiped out,
leaving her with no recollection of any of this other
life that could be the help for her and her team.
With only one other option remaining, Jason, Isabelle, and a
very reluctant Alec take Clary to the City of Bones
to face the powerful Silent Brothers. Meanwhile, Luke continues his
(02:29):
search for Clary, and Simon tries to come to terms
with his best friend's new life. So much happening episode two.
It's exhausting. How did we even get through it? So
the title of this episode is The Descent to Hell
Isn't Easy. It aired originally on January nine, sixteen. Was
written by a doctor and Holly Overton, and directed by
(02:52):
the wonderful Mick Garris, who incidentally enough directed the original
miniseries of The Stand Back in the Day, which I
did the remake of last year on Paramount Plus. How exciting.
So here we are, Here we are, We're back, We're back.
Where do we Exactly what happened when we left off?
So we left with the three of us outside the institute,
(03:14):
Right outside the decrepit institute. Dead Circle member Simon has
just seen his first dead body. You're a dressed like
a leathery drug addict, Yes, hanging out with a complete stranger,
and the classic visualization of the triangle Clary, come with me, Clary,
come with me, looking back and forth between these two
(03:35):
very handsome gentlemen. I stand the reason that Clary potentially
made the wrong choice there. I think Simon was the
obvious choice in that in that scenario, Jason's promised that
there is some way that we could find your mother.
But Simon's your best power, he'd figure it out with you,
you know, I mean, in any sense of reality, that
would have been the more reasonable choice. But we're not
(03:55):
in reality, dumb, or in the shadow world, we are not.
We deal with reality. We deal with surreality. It's in
a real word. It is now linked with reality. I
don't know it is now coining it dom show at
tm CAT. Yes, when you tell us a little about
the book to screen stuff that you you and Alberto
(04:16):
particularly were very good at pointing out things that were
reflected directly from the book to the screens when you
hold our hands through some of that. Absolutely, so we
get to see a lot of elements that we see
in the first couple of books in this episode. And
it's these first few episodes going back and watching them,
I forget how much we had to kind of establish
and learn even ourselves about this world. You know, we
(04:37):
learn a lot more about the Circle and the Uprising
that is sort of the Shadow Hunter's history in this episode,
and that includes Hodges involvement and you know, all of
the lineage that all of our characters represent in in
various different ways. We also get to see the City
of Bones for the first time, which we'll talk about
a little bit later because there's much to discuss, sure will,
(05:00):
and we also get to see a little fun elements.
Our writers were so good about planting all these easter
eggs in about the different characters of things that were
in the books, from Simon and Clary calling themselves a
package deal, to Isabelle being a bad cook, to Alec
rolling his eyes all the time, and you know, Jace
fiddling with his sell the whole Nightmare of the stele
(05:23):
a season one. These I think we spoke about this
briefly in the last episode. They were awful. God. They
were these brittle like made out of I don't even know,
like the most fragile rock ever to have graced the
planet with its presidents. But it was it was something
that I added in because you know, these little, like
you say, these little cool easter eggs that were directly
(05:46):
from the books to the TV fans, and you know,
it's a it's a nice thing for us to be
able to do and for the writers to do, especially
as a nod to how these stories started and the
fans that will you know, irrevocably, We're always is going
to have fans that read the book and I wasn't
there perfect Chase or you weren't their perfect Clara or
whatever it was, you know, the one that they had
in their minds, and they're not going to be particularly
(06:08):
happy with that. That's the imagination of how you read books. However,
I think the more that we could put these little
pieces in that it's like, hey, guys, we didn't forget
about you. We know that you started this journey off
with us, and we're glad you're still here with us.
So that's really important to show you that we appreciate where,
you know, we started, and all the credit for that
really goes to the writers absolutely. So now we step
(06:30):
inside the Institute and we get to see one of
my favorite elements of the Shadow World, which is the
use of the glamor room. Yeah, and we got to
do this fun you know, our world. I'm not sure
about you, Cat, but my first sort of foray into
what big C. G I stuff looks like. And it's
interesting because you sort of assume that there's going to
be sort of wind on set, and sometimes there is
(06:51):
sometimes there's wind and effects and stuff that goes on
around you. With this, you just sort of stand still
and imagine that it's happening in front of you. You
just sort of tend that whatever this thing is is
going on, which obviously it wasn't. So it's a very
strange thing for I think Alberta as well hadn't really
done any c g I, any big c g I
stuff before, So it's an interesting place to be where
(07:12):
they're just like, and you know, imagine that this chandelier
is on the floor and it's being picked up by magic,
and you know, the painters re growing itself along the walls,
and the lights are changing, and then these people are appearing,
and then you know the difference in reaction between obviously
Jason's seen this thousand times and Simon, who was like,
good grief for what is going on here? This is absolutelynacy.
(07:33):
So it was an interesting you know, it was an
interesting thing for us to do for the first time.
It was really good fun and it's you know, c
g I looks so cool in the end, but at
the beginning it's really just as a lot of talking
of all of us going Okay, what is this going
to look like and how do we do this? And
what are we seeing? And I think, you know, it's
such a credit to our VFX teams both in season
(07:55):
one and then Folks VFX who came in for a
season two and three, because they always had some any
visuals and so many tools to help us know what
we were seeing, because oftentimes it was a first ad
with the tennis ball, which we'll talk about in a
few episodes. So come back for episode ten, Yeah we
sure well, but yeah, good fun and then moving on
(08:17):
the Mortal Cup, so we get to I mean, I
feel like hot Hodge should be higher up on our
list of things to discuss. I think John Corp and
his bulging muscles and his glorious beard and his wonderful
intensity as an actor should be higher up on the
list of things that we're going to talk about. And
as a result, I'm usurping the list that I have
(08:37):
in front of me, and I'm putting him higher up.
Do it more, John core So cat you again, this
is a book, a book differential that you know more about.
So in the books and actually in the original film
of the Mortal Instruments as well, we see Hodge depicted
as sort of a teacher, professor, sque librarian type, older gentleman,
(09:00):
and in our series, as is want to do as
we see the series move on. They decided to cast
arguably the most attractive people possible for any of these roles,
um but also wonderful humans and brilliant actors who bring
just as much character as they do looks and aesthetics
to the show. But the fans very quickly doomed John
(09:20):
core hot Hodge and I thought it was quite apt, correct, Yeah,
hot Hodge, there he is. And via hot Hodge and
his glistening muscles, we get to learn a little more
about the Circle and a little more about the Mortal Cup, which, again,
you know, it's interesting when you when you film the
first two episodes of something, especially when they were based
on a book, it's entirely too easy sometimes to forget
(09:43):
that we are welcoming the book fans into our version
of this world that they already understand thoroughly, and then
also welcoming an entire group of new people who have
never experienced this before. So as much as some of
it might seem a bit clinical when we're talking about
it on screen, you know this is the circle. There
was an uprising that happened a generation ago, and they
(10:04):
were led by this person, and this happened and we
were punished because of it, and blah blah blah. What
you have to remember is that we're explaining this for
people that haven't had any inkling towards our story before.
So as much as it does sound a little trivial
at times, it's really important for us a storytellers to
tell the story to people who don't know. So Hodge
is sort of our our vehicle, I suppose our storytelling
(10:27):
vehicle into being like, look, this is what went down.
The shadow Hunters know, so we can't just dive into
this story and not explain what's going on. So Hodge
explaining to clarity is are sort of grounding our first
grounding of like, this is the history of shadow Hunters.
This is the war that we thought we had put
behind us, but seemingly as been thrust back against our gates.
(10:49):
You're seemingly lovely balanced world that you know, I just
had to stumble my way into um. But it it
is interesting, and that's something that you know, we we
keep seeing with the story over the course of it,
as we need more characters there. Everything is connected, and
everything is linked, and there's such a sort of tradition
to this kind of ancestral world of the Shadow Hunters,
(11:10):
where all of these families have been ingrained in this
sort of tradition for generations, and it's up to our
generation to question everything and to make those changes and
to kind of try and fix the problems that our
parents and Hodges and other elements just thought they had
solved or accepted or put behind them. That just provides
(11:32):
more and more layers to this this world and this story.
I agree. It also does say on my notes breakdown
that Cat and I were the first ones to do
scenes with John, which actually I think was fairly common
for us. I think it was normally one or other
of us, or both of us. I think fairly often
for us. I'm thinking about, you know, the other sort
(11:53):
of stars that we had in and it was pretty
common that it was you and I. Right, you're right down.
We do off and get the privilege of welcoming people
into the show, and I think we did that as
well kind of on a personal level, you know, I
remember we are a d s got very good at
telling us, hey, this person is here for their fitting.
They're over here if you want to say hi, because
(12:14):
that's you know, that's what we do. We try and
not only lead the show on screen, but we also
lead the social life of the show and and try
and make people feel as welcome and comfortable as possible. Totally.
Next up, we just got our first inkling of it
in episode two, Sizzy Beginning to Sizzle. First of all,
so much fun to say sizzling Sizzy amazing, but we
(12:37):
do get that first little moment where Alberto just doing
his amazing Simon thing. You see him sort of deer
in the headlights with this gorgeous woman's sad stood in
front of him, and that first little interconnectivity moment, which
is really wonderful to see. Jason Clary, those relationships picked
up quite quickly, and we sort of knew the direction
(12:59):
that they would go going in fairly quickly, whereas is
He and Simon really took its time and then sort
of dissipates and they go their separate ways and whatever,
and that's all to be discovered later and in the series,
which I think is really cool. But yeah, that was
our This is our first Sizzy moment. In episode two,
Season one, and as we're continuing with these you know,
(13:20):
cooking references, the writers were very good at putting Sizzy
on a slow simmer for a long time and just
it was always there. You could always you can always
catch catch a glimpse of it coming or their connection
or a whiff of the aroma, yeah coming. I don't
know this is this is divulging too quickly. I'm gonna
I'm gonna move on. Here's with him about is he
(13:43):
not being able to cook? Because is he we see?
Is he eat normal food? So she's aware that what
food should taste like? Yeah? So is she not aware
that her food that she cooks tastes different to that
she is she entirely unaware that this bowl of like
sturgion slot that she serves Simon isn't appetizing in any
way shape or form. I mean potentially. But also, you know,
(14:05):
we all not not everyone is like you doum, We're
not all good at everything. Wow, that everyone got that.
We recorded that, right, That's that's my ringtimee. Now every
time Cat calls, it is just going to say Dom
is good at everything. That's amazing and it's lovely. It
might be my alarm as well, perfect happy to happy
to help. But you know, if you are accustomed to
(14:27):
a certain breakfast that you make, or something that is
becomes a habit in your life, you may not know
that it's, you know, not the epitome of culinary perfection.
Fair enough, however, back to Issie's cooking, that does bring
us back to some of my favorite book moments that
we finally get to talk about in this episode, being
(14:50):
the interaction between Alec and Clary and Alec Colin Clary
a little girl and the my name Isn't Little Girl line,
which is it's a really icon exchange from the book
that gets memed a lot and gets made into fans
aren't quite a bit, And you know, as someone who
read the books, it's it's always exciting to get to
do moments like that, or the you know, emotionless g
(15:11):
I Joe and having Clary and Jays have a conversation
about wait, what's g I Joe? And you know, it's
the sort of back and forth of explaining Clari explaining
the mundane world to Jason, Jason explained the shadow world
to Clary, and it establishes this really entertaining dynamic between
all of these characters that sort of moved is on
(15:46):
fairly neatly to Clary's body relationship with Jace, and I
think this comfortability for these two characters came from one
both being outsiders, which is a very normal human trait,
which I think was one of the things we did
very well in the show is pairing the fantasy ridiculous
storyline with this reality that like, oh, I've been through
(16:08):
that and that makes sense to me, you know. But
I think that the cool thing we did about this
budding relationship is so much of it was based in instinct,
So much of it was based in her being enveloped
in this world and just making an understanding sort of
process that hadn't really had legs to do so in
the past. And we sort of discussed this a little
(16:29):
more in episode three, where your instincts start to take
over and we feel what that feels like between the
two of them. But I think that was a really
cool This is a really cool start to this where
Clary really does lean into Chase Um and Jace, you know,
really brings her under his wing because he understands this,
He understands who she is, he understands what it's like
being astray. And not only that, which you know, we
(16:52):
never really discussed before filming, but Matt and I have
discussed since is Jason's role in this In this relation,
Chip very much became Alex role in Jason's life when
Jace first met the light Woods and when Jason was
first brought into their family. The reason Jace, I think,
is so passionate about doing it is because he's seen
(17:12):
his big brother do this once before. He understands what
this is like, and he understands sort of the pay
it forward motion of what this is like, oh or
maybe less so of like an emotional connection to it,
just more in a very shadow Hunters he way, this
is how we do things. Like someone brought me in
and they took care of me, and I now have
this other sort of lost little bird that needs to
be taken care of, and like, is it just how
(17:33):
we do it. I'm going to take care of this
one exactly, which I thought was interesting and it's a
really cool way to start this relationshipt And and you know,
as he's talking about instincts, Jas has instincts of his
own and sees that potential and Clary and sees as
you said, this last little burden. And you know, Clary
is kind of at this point floundering and trying to
get some kind of solid ground underneath her, and Jace
(17:57):
becomes that, and Jace encourages her and and kind of
brings her into this world and gives her the confidence
to trust those instincts, whether they be the visions that
she has because of the portal shard, or knowing where
to find Dot, or you know, any of these other
elements that we get to see moving forward, which then
then a whole mess of ship happens from there. But
(18:18):
oh my goodness, I think if you're if you're doing
what I think you're doing. The solid ground thing has
pinned a link to me, which I think is hilarious
that that's worked out that way. Cat tell us, tell
us about clumsy Cat, tell us about Let's let this
episode two is the first time we really got to
meet clumsy Cat, which was fun. Tell Us about clumsy Cat.
(18:40):
I'm sure that was so fun for you. So, as
many people know, I am not the most graceful individual
from time to time. Most of the time I trip
over nothing constantly. But you know, we were all still
getting to know each other, and I was still getting
to know the crew, and you know, I wanted to
I want to look cool and I went, which is
not a MA nature, and I wanted to be able
(19:01):
to be like a badass with everybody else. And we
had this great scene that they'd set up in Pandemonium
during the day. We were going to find Dot and
storming the castle in a way, and I was flanked
by you and Matt. We were just walking in, taking
the place by storm to go find Magnus. And we
turned the corner and I was in eight inch stiletto
boots and may or may not have slipped, and next
(19:25):
thing I knew, I was on my butt and facing
an entirely different direction. And I think I provided some
solid comedic entertainment for the entire crew and you, but
not necessarily my original intention. For four years. For four years,
that happened, like we would walk on set. There were
times where we would walk on set and we'd look
(19:45):
at the floor and be like, there's no way, there's
no way she can do this. There's no no way
on earth unless they've given her normal shoes. It wasn't
your fault, by the way, like the aesthetic for the
show was these high heels and this like cool thing
for you guys to be in, and it looked amazing,
but there were a lot of times where you're like, nah,
there's it just can't happen. There's no way. The irony
(20:07):
being the only person I think in the cast who
got sent to the hospital was me, and I had
normal shoes on the whole time. I had regular like
the shoes. I had like combat boots on that were
designed for combat, like normal things. And I got sent
to the hospital and Cat didn't. He But the thing
is four years in when somebody trips on set and
(20:29):
they go, oh, I pulled a cat. You know you're
the one who trips all the time. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, Yeah, Yeah,
let's move on, Cat, What do you want next? What
is your focus being drawn to? So now Luke has
a really interesting role in this episode when he discovers
that Clary saw him talking to the Circle members, and
(20:51):
you know, being the astute detective that he is, puts
the clues together to discover that she probably has the
wrong impression of what's going on. But you know, it's
it's interesting because that's another change from the book. I
don't know if you recall this, but in the books,
Luke owns an antique bookstore, which is something that gets
(21:12):
brought in in season three does the show, but we'll
talk about that later. But having him be a police
officer instead lends itself to Isaiah Mustafa quite well, given
that he is, you know, the the imposing badass figure
that he is. But also it provides this kind of,
as you said earlier, an element of reality being brought
into the world and this kind of other avenue to explore. Absolutely,
(21:36):
And one of the fun things about Isaiah two is
he's Isaiah such a softie, like, he's such a He's
just like a gentle like caring, big, like huggable dude.
That's who he is. And he really looks after, you know,
all of the people around him sort of constantly, which
is really nice. So to see him that first little
sort of foe like is he a bad guy? Think?
(22:00):
I don't know how many people bought that, because he
does such a good job at being like this caring
father figure. So I think that might be why that
storyline didn't last very long, because everyone was like him
captain lovable. I don't know. I think he's a good guy.
I think he's a good dude, and we like him
as a good guy. You know, it's very hard to
believe that the most lovable of us arguably could ever
(22:23):
be a villain, although we all got to, we all
got to have our villainous street from time to time,
we all had villainous moments. Yeah, absolutely, all of us,
all of us on this podcast currently, Simon never have.
Yeah does he win well? Actually episode nine of season
one when he's learning his um yeah, oh yeah, a
(22:43):
little bit. Yeah. Throughout the show, actually it happens a
couple of times he does. He absolutely does. But we'll
get to that. We will get to that. But now
we tackle the fact. Once we can't find Dot and
Magnus won't can't recover the memories, the only recourse, as
Jace varies to points out, is Silent Brothers. We have
to go to the Silent Brothers, much to alex chagrin,
(23:06):
which I have to say, I love grumpy Alex so
much and I miss grumpy Alec from time to time.
I forgot how absolutely hysterical Matt Didario is as grumpy
cat Alec. You know what's fun is I know, I
notice it. The fans find it, and there are some
really cool There are some really cool like screen moments,
(23:28):
like screen capped moments of Matt being grumpy Aleck Like.
There's one of my one of my absolute all time
favorite ones is when you guys, this is in season two,
I think, and you knock on Iris Rouse's house townhouse car,
remember exactly who it is? You're not, but they you
get asked, oh is this your boyfriend? And he's just
in there but no words. He just goes like and
(23:52):
it's the most hilarious reaction, like that grumpy Alc moment
of like, no, he isn't, why are you asking me that?
But potentially my favorite grumpy Alic moment happens in this episode,
and it's sort of I don't know if you remember,
became a Magadario classic. Matt is the original Salt Bay.
We know this because he he had this moment on
(24:12):
set where Simon and Izzy and we all of us
were talking and he just goes, I can't be here anymore,
and this just became a thing. I don't know if
for those of you who are watching, is a very
specific hand movement that goes along with that, very very Maddorio,
very Mandadario and still happens to this day. If I
say something that upsets him, he'll give me the not
(24:35):
interested in what you're saying. Very funny, We're a big fan. Interestingly,
in this episode we visit the City of Bones. It's
the dreaded city of Bones, which we need to discuss.
We do need to discuss the City of Bones. Were
called over to The Strain, which is another show that
shot in Toronto at the time, said hey, you have catacombs, right,
(24:56):
there's a lot of bones and things. Can we throw
a couple of runs in there for a day and
stitched up mouths and and a statue which was the
same statue they used in the film. It was we
have two of those. We have two of those in
this episode we do. We have the statue and do
you want to tell the folks at home with the other?
So are Silent Brother Stephen, who is the man with
(25:18):
the voice as we actually really never really got to
see his face that often unless you caught him in
the makeup trailer. You wouldn't see his face because he
was in the silent brother facade the whole time. But
Stephen was our silent brother and was also the silent
brother in the movie, so we got to transfer him,
but which was really good fun. I mean, he really
is the only person who could have played brother Jeremiah agreed.
(25:42):
The height and the voice, and he just embodies that
sort of spirit of gravitas. Yeah, agreed, agreed, and then
obviously the statue we had Yeah, and and you know
it's it's again another time where Clary entirely puts her
trust in Jace and Jason's This is the other thing
that I think is why she's able to trust him
(26:02):
so much, because he's honest with her. He goes, look,
there's about you're going to die. Are you okay with this?
And she says, yeah, you were honest, So let's do this.
I want to find my mom. And again that kind
of establishes that team dynamic. I mean, Clary will never
replace Alec as a parabatie, but Jason Clary are another
(26:22):
kind of They become a team in battle in another sense,
in in many of the circumstances in the show, and
I think this is kind of the first time we
see that and see them going, look, these are the risks,
this is what's going to happen. Are you good? And
they kind of take that leap of faith together, sometimes literally. Yeah.
We'll talk about that day, the leap of faith day,
(26:43):
much later on in the podcast series because maass me
off who I was upset about that that day. But
we'll talk about that another day, another day. This is
interesting in the notes, I didn't know that Nephelim facilis
was wrong. It was incorrectly on the sword. What saying it? Am? I? Oh,
(27:04):
have I made that up this morning? No? You didn't,
but I didn't. I didn't an acting Oh I see,
Oh I see, I see, I see, I see. So
you did know that that was a thing with the
be Sorry, I didn't know that. I didn't know that
that was the case, which is strange because I'm pretty
sure I couldn't learn the Latin, so I just read
it off the sword that day. So it's possible that
(27:25):
I said it wrong in the show as well. Latin's
not It wasn't one for me. Latin we never had
to learn. I should have known, given that I took
Latin in high school, but it had been been a
few years from me. But also it's you know, we
get to see the city of Bones, and we get
to see again another iconic book moment brought in, and
it brings up another massive element that I realized now
(27:47):
that you know, having read the books and going into it,
I knew, but the audience for the first time, if
they hadn't read the books, finds out that Valentine, this
big bad that's been set up, as you know, brilliantly
by Allen van Spraying as our sort of Darth Vader, Voldemort,
epitome of all evil, is Clari's father. Not good, not good,
(28:09):
Oh dear, not good, not good. So, you know, just
giving Alec more fodder for their kind of hate chip
to contentious relationship, to lack of trust in this little
girl who has so vituitously stumbled into the world, and
and maybe gives Jason a moment of pause. Interesting, there
is definitely a moment and I remember this and I
(28:31):
remember talking about it with Mike, that moment of like, oh, ship,
that's not good. We made a huge mistake helping this
person out, Like because Alec is right, he says, like,
I can't remember if it's in this episode or later on,
but he goes this girl just come drops out of
the blue, a new shadow Hunter who we've never met,
before and happens to be the daughter of our greatest enemy.
(28:52):
And I'm like, yeah, I don't really have answer great
when you put it like that, Yeah, it's not good,
but we're gonna help anyway. I say this, and I
will say this phrase more and more as we go on.
The shadow Hunters are not very bright. We don't make
good decisions. As a general rule. We don't make good
decisions because that makes good television. If we if every time,
(29:15):
you know, every time you watched a horror movie and
you're sat in your chair at home, going, don't go
in there. There's a bad guy in there. He's going
to kill you. If they didn't go in that would
be a boring film. So what we do with shadow
Hunters is you screaming your TV. Don't do that. This
person is behind you. They're going to kill you. Or
if you go in there, you're going to do this.
Or if you grab the swords, you're gonna kill everyone,
like all of this stuff, and we're just like, we're
(29:35):
gonna do it. We're gonna do it. We're gonna ignore
all of our training. We're just gonna do it. Happens
a lot, but equally to for Clary at this moment
of you know, she doesn't have her memories, she doesn't
know any of this, and already feeling helpless and lied
to in a way by her mother about her entire past,
then just finding out another layer of oh great, So
(29:57):
not only did my mother lie to me about what
I am, who I am, and she's gone and all this,
she also failed to tell me that my father is
basically the epitome of all evil great and the one
person that's helping me. Now, you know, all of that
trust may be undermined, and I maybe just completely out
and and alone. And then even more so when we
(30:19):
exit the City of Bones, having just learned this information,
both Jason Clary reeling, we find that Clary's only other,
one solid piece of stability has now been strung upside
down by the one and only David Castro as Rafael
Santiago Rafael, one of our most influential young vampires, young
(30:43):
vampire's right, but our most influential vampires. Oh, poor, poor people,
(31:11):
poor guys. Honestly, just bad to worse. It's a constant
bad to worse scenario. This is Alberto's first time being
hung upside down. Yes, and when we get Alberto on
the show, we're going to talk about how many times
he got hung upside down, how because it happened. It
happened quite a bit, hung upside down, tied up, stuck
to a chair, just everything. The poor guy, oh god,
(31:34):
stuck to us sofa that right, Yeah, he kind of
went through it. He went through it. This is a
fun thing for that to happen. And also, obviously we
didn't put those actors up at the top of the
of the you know, precipice in this in this massive
under hanging bridge, they were obviously on a green screen.
And for those who don't know the intricacies of how
(31:55):
a green screen works, it's very similar to what we
were talking about earlier with the chain jing of the
institute and this c g I computer generated imaging that
happens post us filming it. They added all in later
with a computer. A green screen is very similar. So
they will hang poor Alberto upside down on a very
solid rig with matting underneath him. So if anything goes wrong,
(32:16):
Peo falls onto something comfortable with literally a green colored
screen behind him, which is then easily deleted with a computer.
I actually think there are a lot of like Instagram
filters and stuff now that used that a very similar
premise where you can put something behind you. But that's
this is sort of how it originated, was in film
and TV being able to erase a background and add
(32:37):
in a new background. And that's how we shot this
scene with those three obviously up in this massive tool
bridge they were in I believe our stunt room. Were
they in our stunt room and that's where they hung
them upside down? It was either a stunt room or
I think it's I think where it actually was was
what became our second sound stage because we didn't have
(32:58):
We only really had one or two sets built. We
had the Hotel dam More slash Magnus's apartment set, and
we had the Institute set, and then our second down
stage became Simon's house and we had Jade Wolf in there,
but we didn't really have much else, and so you know,
that kind of became our rotating set that they would
build different things that we had. We had a few
(33:19):
more established sets in the future, but at that point
that was just kind of where they would throw things up.
You know, we should do let's not mention what is
and isn't a set okay yet, and later on, let's
once these have sort of been released, let's later on,
let's let's run a pole. Let's run a pole to
see how many people think certain sets are sets versus
(33:42):
which sets are actually on location act they think they
did such a good job with so many of them.
I think that's a really cool idea if we put
you know, let's say fifty of our locations up, ignoring
the obvious ones. The institute obviously was we built that
in the studio, and I think most people have sort
of seen that, But a lot of these other ones
you wouldn't necessarily be sure because they did such a
(34:02):
good job. So it would be interesting. It would be
interesting for people to sort of judge whether or not, like,
did they do this? Did they do this? So let's
let's put an earmark in that for the future, and
maybe we'll run a little a little competition and the
winner gets to take cat. There's no way anyway. We
(34:23):
discussed sort of somewhat the accouterra math that you have
your outfits and how potentially unwelcoming they were to the environment.
So why don't you tell us? Why don't you tell us?
From the horse's mouth as it were, what the issue
was on this day. Well, at this point, Clary is
still wearing Isabelle's clothing because she has yet to you know,
Amazon prime some leather jackets of her own to the institute,
(34:48):
or however the shadow Hunters get their clothes. I don't know.
I just assume Amarand and I used to always talk
about this. I just assume that, you know, they're constantly
delivering different things to the outside of this old, decrepit church,
and either we have someone on the inside of ups
or just people just leave boxes and have no idea
where they go. However it happens, it happens. But it
(35:11):
happened to rain that night that we were out under
the bridge filming all of this, and in order to
attempt to make it less muddy, because all of us
tended to sink into that ground as we were running
downhill to the van, they put plywood down, and then
they put leaves and other accoutrement to disguise this plywood
so it didn't look like they just slapped it something
(35:33):
on the ground in the middle of nowhere. But in essence,
what that led to, in my it inched a lot
of boots is a bit of ice skating down the hill,
and as Dom knows, I am not good at ice skating,
as you will all know at some point in there,
not too just a future. We discussed cats ice skating
ability for sure, sure, but you know, there was a
very particular take that I think again clumsy cat rises
(35:56):
again and Dom you've got a bit of a kick
out of. As we were renting down the hill with
my gusto, I started sliding and ended up face planting
into the pandavan, which I was very glad it was
there to catch me, but it was not the most
comfortable of things to run into. But again, comic relief,
(36:17):
comic relief, solid comic relief for the day. I mean, look,
thank god you weren't injured. Obviously that it was the
number one thing we want to avoid. But yeah, it
was a little like you know, once it starts going,
once someone starts sliding, it's that sort of slow motion
car crash thing where like someone should do something, but
nobody has the ability, So I guess she's just going
(36:37):
to hit it. What we do, She's just going to
literally and that was, yeah, that's what happened. But you know, honestly,
credited credit to you. Cat. You know, you pick yourself
up and you dust yourself off and you keep going.
And that's a mark of a true professional. That's what
we all do, as we will discover next week. I
have some fun stories, were not fun some story. I
(36:59):
have some stories about what happened in episode three. I
have some more stories, but credit. I want to give
some credit quickly to a few people in this. First
of all, well, you have to understand as a guest star,
so there are like tears of um, I guess contracts
when you come into a TV show and they offer
you a different sort of a different role within within
(37:21):
the family when you joined the show. So for example,
the roles that Cat and I had, and Matt and
Emerald and Alberto and Harry and Isaiah, we were series regular,
so we were we were signed under a contract and
we sort of knew us seven we're going to be
kind of the core group of what we created this
world around that's great, So we obviously spent the most
(37:41):
time together. Then you get characters like David, like Raphael
who come in and they're called guest stars and they
come in for an undetermined amount of episodes and just
have to be a part of this family as if
they have been with us the entire time, when we
have trained together, and we have learned fight scenes together,
and we developed these car together. And these guest stars
have to come in and just just perform as if
(38:04):
they've been a part of this world forever. And they
do such a good job. And it's honestly one of
the harder jobs on set to do, because it's terrifying.
It's a terrifying thing to do. You don't know these people,
you don't know the crew, you don't you know, and
it's very rare that you come in and people are
rude to your mean to you, but you never know,
so you're coming in just completely on your own. It's
like joining a new school three years into the school,
(38:26):
you know, term. It's it's really hard work. And they
all do such a good job. And David particularly sat
in very very well with us. And then also we
we were talking about the Silent Brothers earlier, and as
all of you who've watched the episode will have noticed,
I'm sure they have sewn up eyes and sewn up mouths.
Are you Silent Brothers? And they are in that for
(38:47):
the day, especially Stephen is in that. I think Stephen
actually had the makeup on his face. There was the
prosthetics over his eyes so we literally can't open his eyes,
and then prosthetics over his mouth as well, so all
he really eats for the days and the thing he
can get through us draw in between the suitures in
his lips, and I think towards the end some of
the other guys had pre built masks on so they
could just take those off and they were okay. But Stephen,
(39:09):
another one of our guest stars, came in and didn't complain.
He just did his thing, and he was in it
for the hours that he was in it four and
at the end of the day got to take it
off and we would share cigarettes with each other outside,
which was hilarious watching him trying to smoke through a
little gap in his lips suits and then get rid
of it. Um. But guest stars deserve so much more
(39:31):
credit than I think they're given, because they really do
have a really tough job, and I will give credit
to them as as and when they come along throughout
the series because they do an amazing job well, especially
with the show like ours that has so much mythology
and and so much to kind of play catch up on.
You know, they're not given a they're not given a
shadow hunt, just codex when they get to work in
(39:53):
the morning. But we did keep one in the hair
and makeup trailer. We did keep one. Yeah, I don't
know where that ended up. We did keep one. We
also also there are times when they didn't know what
had happened previously in the story. They would come in
and you know, hadn't been given the script in between.
So let's say a character Nicola is a good example,
comes in, you know, and there's been eight episodes in between.
(40:15):
So she came in episode two, and then she comes
in again in episode ten and she's like hey, walking
onto set, she's like, hey, just so I know what
has happened between then and now, And I'm like, oh, ship,
hang on, A whole lot of stuff has happened. Just
so you know, my last name isn't the same as
it was last time you came in. Rights, We're gonna
say that so many things, but also too, as to
(40:38):
your point, a lot of these guest stars that come
in are playing these characters that have hindering elements, whether
it be a stitched up mouth or you know, David
was in that white makeup for a lot of Season one,
and so many you know, our Celis had the ears,
and some of our like Hubert and some of the
guys who came in to play Demons were in full
silicones suits head toe for and or more hours a day.
(41:01):
And it just really speaks to the teamwork not only
of our hair and makeup and wardrobe and prosthetics teams
that that helped these people through the day, but to
how great of sports these actors were to come in
and go, yeah, sure, I'll do this for you know,
ten or more hours a day, and I'll figure this
out and play ball with all of you as we
(41:22):
kind of build this world. And it I think that's
why we ended up bringing so many people back, because
we had so many fantastic performers come in and just
absolutely knock it out of the park, which made it
fun for us, because sometimes when you have a new
character coming in, you don't know you're just meeting as
you walk onto set and you don't know how it's
going to be, or you haven't had a chemistry test
(41:43):
with them and you have no idea what you're gonna
gonna get and time and time again. We were so
impressed by these folks who came in and just absolutely
brought so much to the world and helped to fill
it out in such a beautiful way and became a
part of our our family up in Toronto. Yeah, absolutely, alrighty, well, listen,
I think that brings us pretty neatly towards the end
(42:04):
of the episodes, and I think, Cat, what can you
tease about what's coming next? I know what I can tease,
but I don't. I feel like it gives away quite
a lot. Yeah. Well, I think we have a couple
of key things we can tease. Vampires, more vampires, vampires,
lots of vampires, motorcycles, a motorcycle. Oh no, there are more.
(42:25):
You're right, now, you're right, You're right, there's more, just
only ride one. One key motorcycle. One very specific motorcycle,
very motorcycle. Glamours. We see glamors for the first time.
Oh yeah, lots of glamours. And I can't remember what
we're after, but we're after something, Simon at this point,
I mean, we're still after Jocelyn. Yeah, because remember he
(42:47):
gets taken at the end of three and then at
the end of two and three is when we go
get him. Yeah, it doesn't matter, we'll discuss it in
the next episode. We're all going to figure it out together.
It's gonna be great. We're gonna figure out what we're
after together. What else can we tease? I had a
pretty I I had a traumatic time in episode three. Well,
I'm going to tell you all about it when we
discussed it on the podcast. But I had I had
(43:09):
a rough time in episode three. Yeah, it was. It
was a rough time, but you were you were a
trooper through it, you know, despite that day that you had,
and you know, we're going to talk about it, but
it all happened in the course of a few hours.
You still had a smile on your face, and you
still still made it work, and you still were, you know,
somewhat toothless smile, you might even say, still shining. Nonetheless,
(43:34):
my dear Yeah, well, listen everyone, thank you so much
as always for being a part of our Return to
the Shadows. Thank you for listening, and we will see
you next time, and we will bid you Haren Dale
and farewell. Return to the Shadows as hosted an executive
(43:56):
produced by Katherine McNamara and Dominic Sherwood. Our executive producer
is Langley. Our senior producers are Liz Hayes and Diego Tapia,
and our producers are Hannah Harris and Kristin Vermilia. Original
music by Alex Kinsey and performed by Alex Kinsey and
Kathryn McNamara. The episode was mixed by Said the Landscape
Cat. Why are we always waiting for you? You know,
not always, not always. This morning, my internet was being sunky.
But here I am an actual excuse, a solid excuse.
I was late yesterday because a frog stole my shoes.
It's how ridiculous excuses sound. I'm gonna I'm gonna write
a strongly worded letter to that frog, because you know
what's weird is when you lose one shoe. How's that possible?
(00:23):
How do you lose one shoe? Like? I put them
on together. I never left the apartment or the house
with one shoe. I never came back with Well maybe
there are times where I've come back we just one shoe.
But it's weird, wet, like when I take them off,
I put them together, like those two shoes are together.
It's a strange. Anyways, I'm gonna guess Dan or Rajah
(00:43):
may have had something to do with that. I don't
think Rajah. Dan does Dan, But Dan tends to take
shoes and bring them to me. Dan, for everyone who
doesn't know, is not a child that I'm keeping under wraps.
Here is my dog. He's my golden retriever, and he
likes to bring my shoes to me every now and then,
just to remind me that he there and he loves me,
and that's very sweet. Anyway, that was all nonsense. What
(01:04):
we should be talking about is welcome back to episode
two of Return to the Shadows. Hello, Shadow fam, welcome
(01:46):
back to the podcast. We get to talk about a
brand new episode with you. Guys were very excited about it. Yes.
In episode two, the race is on to find the
Mortal Cup and Clary's mother. Clary's memories may have been
the key to finding her mother and the Mortal Cup.
With knowledge the Valentine is alive and on the hunt
for the Mortal Cup, the Institute is on high alert.
No wanting to waste time, Jay's pumps into action and
(02:08):
figures that Clary's memories are the key to finding Jocelyn
and the Mortal Cup. Unfortunately, Clary's memories were wiped out,
leaving her with no recollection of any of this other
life that could be the help for her and her team.
With only one other option remaining, Jason, Isabelle, and a
very reluctant Alec take Clary to the City of Bones
to face the powerful Silent Brothers. Meanwhile, Luke continues his
(02:29):
search for Clary, and Simon tries to come to terms
with his best friend's new life. So much happening episode two.
It's exhausting. How did we even get through it? So
the title of this episode is The Descent to Hell
Isn't Easy. It aired originally on January nine, sixteen. Was
written by a doctor and Holly Overton, and directed by
(02:52):
the wonderful Mick Garris, who incidentally enough directed the original
miniseries of The Stand Back in the Day, which I
did the remake of last year on Paramount Plus. How exciting.
So here we are, Here we are, We're back, We're back.
Where do we Exactly what happened when we left off?
So we left with the three of us outside the institute,
(03:14):
Right outside the decrepit institute. Dead Circle member Simon has
just seen his first dead body. You're a dressed like
a leathery drug addict, Yes, hanging out with a complete stranger,
and the classic visualization of the triangle Clary, come with me, Clary,
come with me, looking back and forth between these two
(03:35):
very handsome gentlemen. I stand the reason that Clary potentially
made the wrong choice there. I think Simon was the
obvious choice in that in that scenario, Jason's promised that
there is some way that we could find your mother.
But Simon's your best power, he'd figure it out with you,
you know, I mean, in any sense of reality, that
would have been the more reasonable choice. But we're not
(03:55):
in reality, dumb, or in the shadow world, we are not.
We deal with reality. We deal with surreality. It's in
a real word. It is now linked with reality. I
don't know it is now coining it dom show at
tm CAT. Yes, when you tell us a little about
the book to screen stuff that you you and Alberto
(04:16):
particularly were very good at pointing out things that were
reflected directly from the book to the screens when you
hold our hands through some of that. Absolutely, so we
get to see a lot of elements that we see
in the first couple of books in this episode. And
it's these first few episodes going back and watching them,
I forget how much we had to kind of establish
and learn even ourselves about this world. You know, we
(04:37):
learn a lot more about the Circle and the Uprising
that is sort of the Shadow Hunter's history in this episode,
and that includes Hodges involvement and you know, all of
the lineage that all of our characters represent in in
various different ways. We also get to see the City
of Bones for the first time, which we'll talk about
a little bit later because there's much to discuss, sure will,
(05:00):
and we also get to see a little fun elements.
Our writers were so good about planting all these easter
eggs in about the different characters of things that were
in the books, from Simon and Clary calling themselves a
package deal, to Isabelle being a bad cook, to Alec
rolling his eyes all the time, and you know, Jace
fiddling with his sell the whole Nightmare of the stele
(05:23):
a season one. These I think we spoke about this
briefly in the last episode. They were awful. God. They
were these brittle like made out of I don't even know,
like the most fragile rock ever to have graced the
planet with its presidents. But it was it was something
that I added in because you know, these little, like
you say, these little cool easter eggs that were directly
(05:46):
from the books to the TV fans, and you know,
it's a it's a nice thing for us to be
able to do and for the writers to do, especially
as a nod to how these stories started and the
fans that will you know, irrevocably, We're always is going
to have fans that read the book and I wasn't
there perfect Chase or you weren't their perfect Clara or
whatever it was, you know, the one that they had
in their minds, and they're not going to be particularly
(06:08):
happy with that. That's the imagination of how you read books. However,
I think the more that we could put these little
pieces in that it's like, hey, guys, we didn't forget
about you. We know that you started this journey off
with us, and we're glad you're still here with us.
So that's really important to show you that we appreciate where,
you know, we started, and all the credit for that
really goes to the writers absolutely. So now we step
(06:30):
inside the Institute and we get to see one of
my favorite elements of the Shadow World, which is the
use of the glamor room. Yeah, and we got to
do this fun you know, our world. I'm not sure
about you, Cat, but my first sort of foray into
what big C. G I stuff looks like. And it's
interesting because you sort of assume that there's going to
be sort of wind on set, and sometimes there is
(06:51):
sometimes there's wind and effects and stuff that goes on
around you. With this, you just sort of stand still
and imagine that it's happening in front of you. You
just sort of tend that whatever this thing is is
going on, which obviously it wasn't. So it's a very
strange thing for I think Alberta as well hadn't really
done any c g I, any big c g I
stuff before, So it's an interesting place to be where
(07:12):
they're just like, and you know, imagine that this chandelier
is on the floor and it's being picked up by magic,
and you know, the painters re growing itself along the walls,
and the lights are changing, and then these people are appearing,
and then you know the difference in reaction between obviously
Jason's seen this thousand times and Simon, who was like,
good grief for what is going on here? This is absolutelynacy.
(07:33):
So it was an interesting you know, it was an
interesting thing for us to do for the first time.
It was really good fun and it's you know, c
g I looks so cool in the end, but at
the beginning it's really just as a lot of talking
of all of us going Okay, what is this going
to look like and how do we do this? And
what are we seeing? And I think, you know, it's
such a credit to our VFX teams both in season
(07:55):
one and then Folks VFX who came in for a
season two and three, because they always had some any
visuals and so many tools to help us know what
we were seeing, because oftentimes it was a first ad
with the tennis ball, which we'll talk about in a
few episodes. So come back for episode ten, Yeah we
sure well, but yeah, good fun and then moving on
(08:17):
the Mortal Cup, so we get to I mean, I
feel like hot Hodge should be higher up on our
list of things to discuss. I think John Corp and
his bulging muscles and his glorious beard and his wonderful
intensity as an actor should be higher up on the
list of things that we're going to talk about. And
as a result, I'm usurping the list that I have
(08:37):
in front of me, and I'm putting him higher up.
Do it more, John core So cat you again, this
is a book, a book differential that you know more about.
So in the books and actually in the original film
of the Mortal Instruments as well, we see Hodge depicted
as sort of a teacher, professor, sque librarian type, older gentleman,
(09:00):
and in our series, as is want to do as
we see the series move on. They decided to cast
arguably the most attractive people possible for any of these roles,
um but also wonderful humans and brilliant actors who bring
just as much character as they do looks and aesthetics
to the show. But the fans very quickly doomed John
(09:20):
core hot Hodge and I thought it was quite apt, correct, Yeah,
hot Hodge, there he is. And via hot Hodge and
his glistening muscles, we get to learn a little more
about the Circle and a little more about the Mortal Cup, which, again,
you know, it's interesting when you when you film the
first two episodes of something, especially when they were based
on a book, it's entirely too easy sometimes to forget
(09:43):
that we are welcoming the book fans into our version
of this world that they already understand thoroughly, and then
also welcoming an entire group of new people who have
never experienced this before. So as much as some of
it might seem a bit clinical when we're talking about
it on screen, you know this is the circle. There
was an uprising that happened a generation ago, and they
(10:04):
were led by this person, and this happened and we
were punished because of it, and blah blah blah. What
you have to remember is that we're explaining this for
people that haven't had any inkling towards our story before.
So as much as it does sound a little trivial
at times, it's really important for us a storytellers to
tell the story to people who don't know. So Hodge
is sort of our our vehicle, I suppose our storytelling
(10:27):
vehicle into being like, look, this is what went down.
The shadow Hunters know, so we can't just dive into
this story and not explain what's going on. So Hodge
explaining to clarity is are sort of grounding our first
grounding of like, this is the history of shadow Hunters.
This is the war that we thought we had put
behind us, but seemingly as been thrust back against our gates.
(10:49):
You're seemingly lovely balanced world that you know, I just
had to stumble my way into um. But it it
is interesting, and that's something that you know, we we
keep seeing with the story over the course of it,
as we need more characters there. Everything is connected, and
everything is linked, and there's such a sort of tradition
to this kind of ancestral world of the Shadow Hunters,
(11:10):
where all of these families have been ingrained in this
sort of tradition for generations, and it's up to our
generation to question everything and to make those changes and
to kind of try and fix the problems that our
parents and Hodges and other elements just thought they had
solved or accepted or put behind them. That just provides
(11:32):
more and more layers to this this world and this story.
I agree. It also does say on my notes breakdown
that Cat and I were the first ones to do
scenes with John, which actually I think was fairly common
for us. I think it was normally one or other
of us, or both of us. I think fairly often
for us. I'm thinking about, you know, the other sort
(11:53):
of stars that we had in and it was pretty
common that it was you and I. Right, you're right down.
We do off and get the privilege of welcoming people
into the show, and I think we did that as
well kind of on a personal level, you know, I
remember we are a d s got very good at
telling us, hey, this person is here for their fitting.
They're over here if you want to say hi, because
(12:14):
that's you know, that's what we do. We try and
not only lead the show on screen, but we also
lead the social life of the show and and try
and make people feel as welcome and comfortable as possible. Totally.
Next up, we just got our first inkling of it
in episode two, Sizzy Beginning to Sizzle. First of all,
so much fun to say sizzling Sizzy amazing, but we
(12:37):
do get that first little moment where Alberto just doing
his amazing Simon thing. You see him sort of deer
in the headlights with this gorgeous woman's sad stood in
front of him, and that first little interconnectivity moment, which
is really wonderful to see. Jason Clary, those relationships picked
up quite quickly, and we sort of knew the direction
(12:59):
that they would go going in fairly quickly, whereas is
He and Simon really took its time and then sort
of dissipates and they go their separate ways and whatever,
and that's all to be discovered later and in the series,
which I think is really cool. But yeah, that was
our This is our first Sizzy moment. In episode two,
Season one, and as we're continuing with these you know,
(13:20):
cooking references, the writers were very good at putting Sizzy
on a slow simmer for a long time and just
it was always there. You could always you can always
catch catch a glimpse of it coming or their connection
or a whiff of the aroma, yeah coming. I don't
know this is this is divulging too quickly. I'm gonna
I'm gonna move on. Here's with him about is he
(13:43):
not being able to cook? Because is he we see?
Is he eat normal food? So she's aware that what
food should taste like? Yeah? So is she not aware
that her food that she cooks tastes different to that
she is she entirely unaware that this bowl of like
sturgion slot that she serves Simon isn't appetizing in any
way shape or form. I mean potentially. But also, you know,
(14:05):
we all not not everyone is like you doum, We're
not all good at everything. Wow, that everyone got that.
We recorded that, right, That's that's my ringtimee. Now every
time Cat calls, it is just going to say Dom
is good at everything. That's amazing and it's lovely. It
might be my alarm as well, perfect happy to happy
to help. But you know, if you are accustomed to
(14:27):
a certain breakfast that you make, or something that is
becomes a habit in your life, you may not know
that it's, you know, not the epitome of culinary perfection.
Fair enough, however, back to Issie's cooking, that does bring
us back to some of my favorite book moments that
we finally get to talk about in this episode, being
(14:50):
the interaction between Alec and Clary and Alec Colin Clary
a little girl and the my name Isn't Little Girl line,
which is it's a really icon exchange from the book
that gets memed a lot and gets made into fans
aren't quite a bit, And you know, as someone who
read the books, it's it's always exciting to get to
do moments like that, or the you know, emotionless g
(15:11):
I Joe and having Clary and Jays have a conversation
about wait, what's g I Joe? And you know, it's
the sort of back and forth of explaining Clari explaining
the mundane world to Jason, Jason explained the shadow world
to Clary, and it establishes this really entertaining dynamic between
all of these characters that sort of moved is on
(15:46):
fairly neatly to Clary's body relationship with Jace, and I
think this comfortability for these two characters came from one
both being outsiders, which is a very normal human trait,
which I think was one of the things we did
very well in the show is pairing the fantasy ridiculous
storyline with this reality that like, oh, I've been through
(16:08):
that and that makes sense to me, you know. But
I think that the cool thing we did about this
budding relationship is so much of it was based in instinct,
So much of it was based in her being enveloped
in this world and just making an understanding sort of
process that hadn't really had legs to do so in
the past. And we sort of discussed this a little
(16:29):
more in episode three, where your instincts start to take
over and we feel what that feels like between the
two of them. But I think that was a really
cool This is a really cool start to this where
Clary really does lean into Chase Um and Jace, you know,
really brings her under his wing because he understands this,
He understands who she is, he understands what it's like
being astray. And not only that, which you know, we
(16:52):
never really discussed before filming, but Matt and I have
discussed since is Jason's role in this In this relation,
Chip very much became Alex role in Jason's life when
Jace first met the light Woods and when Jason was
first brought into their family. The reason Jace, I think,
is so passionate about doing it is because he's seen
(17:12):
his big brother do this once before. He understands what
this is like, and he understands sort of the pay
it forward motion of what this is like, oh or
maybe less so of like an emotional connection to it,
just more in a very shadow Hunters he way, this
is how we do things. Like someone brought me in
and they took care of me, and I now have
this other sort of lost little bird that needs to
be taken care of, and like, is it just how
(17:33):
we do it. I'm going to take care of this
one exactly, which I thought was interesting and it's a
really cool way to start this relationshipt And and you know,
as he's talking about instincts, Jas has instincts of his
own and sees that potential and Clary and sees as
you said, this last little burden. And you know, Clary
is kind of at this point floundering and trying to
get some kind of solid ground underneath her, and Jace
(17:57):
becomes that, and Jace encourages her and and kind of
brings her into this world and gives her the confidence
to trust those instincts, whether they be the visions that
she has because of the portal shard, or knowing where
to find Dot, or you know, any of these other
elements that we get to see moving forward, which then
then a whole mess of ship happens from there. But
(18:18):
oh my goodness, I think if you're if you're doing
what I think you're doing. The solid ground thing has
pinned a link to me, which I think is hilarious
that that's worked out that way. Cat tell us, tell
us about clumsy Cat, tell us about Let's let this
episode two is the first time we really got to
meet clumsy Cat, which was fun. Tell Us about clumsy Cat.
(18:40):
I'm sure that was so fun for you. So, as
many people know, I am not the most graceful individual
from time to time. Most of the time I trip
over nothing constantly. But you know, we were all still
getting to know each other, and I was still getting
to know the crew, and you know, I wanted to
I want to look cool and I went, which is
not a MA nature, and I wanted to be able
(19:01):
to be like a badass with everybody else. And we
had this great scene that they'd set up in Pandemonium
during the day. We were going to find Dot and
storming the castle in a way, and I was flanked
by you and Matt. We were just walking in, taking
the place by storm to go find Magnus. And we
turned the corner and I was in eight inch stiletto
boots and may or may not have slipped, and next
(19:25):
thing I knew, I was on my butt and facing
an entirely different direction. And I think I provided some
solid comedic entertainment for the entire crew and you, but
not necessarily my original intention. For four years. For four years,
that happened, like we would walk on set. There were
times where we would walk on set and we'd look
(19:45):
at the floor and be like, there's no way, there's
no way she can do this. There's no no way
on earth unless they've given her normal shoes. It wasn't
your fault, by the way, like the aesthetic for the
show was these high heels and this like cool thing
for you guys to be in, and it looked amazing,
but there were a lot of times where you're like, nah,
there's it just can't happen. There's no way. The irony
(20:07):
being the only person I think in the cast who
got sent to the hospital was me, and I had
normal shoes on the whole time. I had regular like
the shoes. I had like combat boots on that were
designed for combat, like normal things. And I got sent
to the hospital and Cat didn't. He But the thing
is four years in when somebody trips on set and
(20:29):
they go, oh, I pulled a cat. You know you're
the one who trips all the time. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, Yeah, Yeah,
let's move on, Cat, What do you want next? What
is your focus being drawn to? So now Luke has
a really interesting role in this episode when he discovers
that Clary saw him talking to the Circle members, and
(20:51):
you know, being the astute detective that he is, puts
the clues together to discover that she probably has the
wrong impression of what's going on. But you know, it's
it's interesting because that's another change from the book. I
don't know if you recall this, but in the books,
Luke owns an antique bookstore, which is something that gets
(21:12):
brought in in season three does the show, but we'll
talk about that later. But having him be a police
officer instead lends itself to Isaiah Mustafa quite well, given
that he is, you know, the the imposing badass figure
that he is. But also it provides this kind of,
as you said earlier, an element of reality being brought
into the world and this kind of other avenue to explore. Absolutely,
(21:36):
And one of the fun things about Isaiah two is
he's Isaiah such a softie, like, he's such a He's
just like a gentle like caring, big, like huggable dude.
That's who he is. And he really looks after, you know,
all of the people around him sort of constantly, which
is really nice. So to see him that first little
sort of foe like is he a bad guy? Think?
(22:00):
I don't know how many people bought that, because he
does such a good job at being like this caring
father figure. So I think that might be why that
storyline didn't last very long, because everyone was like him
captain lovable. I don't know. I think he's a good guy.
I think he's a good dude, and we like him
as a good guy. You know, it's very hard to
believe that the most lovable of us arguably could ever
(22:23):
be a villain, although we all got to, we all
got to have our villainous street from time to time,
we all had villainous moments. Yeah, absolutely, all of us,
all of us on this podcast currently, Simon never have.
Yeah does he win well? Actually episode nine of season
one when he's learning his um yeah, oh yeah, a
(22:43):
little bit. Yeah. Throughout the show, actually it happens a
couple of times he does. He absolutely does. But we'll
get to that. We will get to that. But now
we tackle the fact. Once we can't find Dot and
Magnus won't can't recover the memories, the only recourse, as
Jace varies to points out, is Silent Brothers. We have
to go to the Silent Brothers, much to alex chagrin,
(23:06):
which I have to say, I love grumpy Alex so
much and I miss grumpy Alec from time to time.
I forgot how absolutely hysterical Matt Didario is as grumpy
cat Alec. You know what's fun is I know, I
notice it. The fans find it, and there are some
really cool There are some really cool like screen moments,
(23:28):
like screen capped moments of Matt being grumpy Aleck Like.
There's one of my one of my absolute all time
favorite ones is when you guys, this is in season two,
I think, and you knock on Iris Rouse's house townhouse car,
remember exactly who it is? You're not, but they you
get asked, oh is this your boyfriend? And he's just
in there but no words. He just goes like and
(23:52):
it's the most hilarious reaction, like that grumpy Alc moment
of like, no, he isn't, why are you asking me that?
But potentially my favorite grumpy Alic moment happens in this episode,
and it's sort of I don't know if you remember,
became a Magadario classic. Matt is the original Salt Bay.
We know this because he he had this moment on
(24:12):
set where Simon and Izzy and we all of us
were talking and he just goes, I can't be here anymore,
and this just became a thing. I don't know if
for those of you who are watching, is a very
specific hand movement that goes along with that, very very Maddorio,
very Mandadario and still happens to this day. If I
say something that upsets him, he'll give me the not
(24:35):
interested in what you're saying. Very funny, We're a big fan. Interestingly,
in this episode we visit the City of Bones. It's
the dreaded city of Bones, which we need to discuss.
We do need to discuss the City of Bones. Were
called over to The Strain, which is another show that
shot in Toronto at the time, said hey, you have catacombs, right,
(24:56):
there's a lot of bones and things. Can we throw
a couple of runs in there for a day and
stitched up mouths and and a statue which was the
same statue they used in the film. It was we
have two of those. We have two of those in
this episode we do. We have the statue and do
you want to tell the folks at home with the other?
So are Silent Brother Stephen, who is the man with
(25:18):
the voice as we actually really never really got to
see his face that often unless you caught him in
the makeup trailer. You wouldn't see his face because he
was in the silent brother facade the whole time. But
Stephen was our silent brother and was also the silent
brother in the movie, so we got to transfer him,
but which was really good fun. I mean, he really
is the only person who could have played brother Jeremiah agreed.
(25:42):
The height and the voice, and he just embodies that
sort of spirit of gravitas. Yeah, agreed, agreed, and then
obviously the statue we had Yeah, and and you know
it's it's again another time where Clary entirely puts her
trust in Jace and Jason's This is the other thing
that I think is why she's able to trust him
(26:02):
so much, because he's honest with her. He goes, look,
there's about you're going to die. Are you okay with this?
And she says, yeah, you were honest, So let's do this.
I want to find my mom. And again that kind
of establishes that team dynamic. I mean, Clary will never
replace Alec as a parabatie, but Jason Clary are another
(26:22):
kind of They become a team in battle in another sense,
in in many of the circumstances in the show, and
I think this is kind of the first time we
see that and see them going, look, these are the risks,
this is what's going to happen. Are you good? And
they kind of take that leap of faith together, sometimes literally. Yeah.
We'll talk about that day, the leap of faith day,
(26:43):
much later on in the podcast series because maass me
off who I was upset about that that day. But
we'll talk about that another day, another day. This is
interesting in the notes, I didn't know that Nephelim facilis
was wrong. It was incorrectly on the sword. What saying it? Am? I? Oh,
(27:04):
have I made that up this morning? No? You didn't,
but I didn't. I didn't an acting Oh I see,
Oh I see, I see, I see, I see. So
you did know that that was a thing with the
be Sorry, I didn't know that. I didn't know that
that was the case, which is strange because I'm pretty
sure I couldn't learn the Latin, so I just read
it off the sword that day. So it's possible that
(27:25):
I said it wrong in the show as well. Latin's
not It wasn't one for me. Latin we never had
to learn. I should have known, given that I took
Latin in high school, but it had been been a
few years from me. But also it's you know, we
get to see the city of Bones, and we get
to see again another iconic book moment brought in, and
it brings up another massive element that I realized now
(27:47):
that you know, having read the books and going into it,
I knew, but the audience for the first time, if
they hadn't read the books, finds out that Valentine, this
big bad that's been set up, as you know, brilliantly
by Allen van Spraying as our sort of Darth Vader, Voldemort,
epitome of all evil, is Clari's father. Not good, not good,
(28:09):
Oh dear, not good, not good. So, you know, just
giving Alec more fodder for their kind of hate chip
to contentious relationship, to lack of trust in this little
girl who has so vituitously stumbled into the world, and
and maybe gives Jason a moment of pause. Interesting, there
is definitely a moment and I remember this and I
(28:31):
remember talking about it with Mike, that moment of like, oh, ship,
that's not good. We made a huge mistake helping this
person out, Like because Alec is right, he says, like,
I can't remember if it's in this episode or later on,
but he goes this girl just come drops out of
the blue, a new shadow Hunter who we've never met,
before and happens to be the daughter of our greatest enemy.
(28:52):
And I'm like, yeah, I don't really have answer great
when you put it like that, Yeah, it's not good,
but we're gonna help anyway. I say this, and I
will say this phrase more and more as we go on.
The shadow Hunters are not very bright. We don't make
good decisions. As a general rule. We don't make good
decisions because that makes good television. If we if every time,
(29:15):
you know, every time you watched a horror movie and
you're sat in your chair at home, going, don't go
in there. There's a bad guy in there. He's going
to kill you. If they didn't go in that would
be a boring film. So what we do with shadow
Hunters is you screaming your TV. Don't do that. This
person is behind you. They're going to kill you. Or
if you go in there, you're going to do this.
Or if you grab the swords, you're gonna kill everyone,
like all of this stuff, and we're just like, we're
(29:35):
gonna do it. We're gonna do it. We're gonna ignore
all of our training. We're just gonna do it. Happens
a lot, but equally to for Clary at this moment
of you know, she doesn't have her memories, she doesn't
know any of this, and already feeling helpless and lied
to in a way by her mother about her entire past,
then just finding out another layer of oh great, So
(29:57):
not only did my mother lie to me about what
I am, who I am, and she's gone and all this,
she also failed to tell me that my father is
basically the epitome of all evil great and the one
person that's helping me. Now, you know, all of that
trust may be undermined, and I maybe just completely out
and and alone. And then even more so when we
(30:19):
exit the City of Bones, having just learned this information,
both Jason Clary reeling, we find that Clary's only other,
one solid piece of stability has now been strung upside
down by the one and only David Castro as Rafael
Santiago Rafael, one of our most influential young vampires, young
(30:43):
vampire's right, but our most influential vampires. Oh, poor, poor people,
(31:11):
poor guys. Honestly, just bad to worse. It's a constant
bad to worse scenario. This is Alberto's first time being
hung upside down. Yes, and when we get Alberto on
the show, we're going to talk about how many times
he got hung upside down, how because it happened. It
happened quite a bit, hung upside down, tied up, stuck
to a chair, just everything. The poor guy, oh god,
(31:34):
stuck to us sofa that right, Yeah, he kind of
went through it. He went through it. This is a
fun thing for that to happen. And also, obviously we
didn't put those actors up at the top of the
of the you know, precipice in this in this massive
under hanging bridge, they were obviously on a green screen.
And for those who don't know the intricacies of how
(31:55):
a green screen works, it's very similar to what we
were talking about earlier with the chain jing of the
institute and this c g I computer generated imaging that
happens post us filming it. They added all in later
with a computer. A green screen is very similar. So
they will hang poor Alberto upside down on a very
solid rig with matting underneath him. So if anything goes wrong,
(32:16):
Peo falls onto something comfortable with literally a green colored
screen behind him, which is then easily deleted with a computer.
I actually think there are a lot of like Instagram
filters and stuff now that used that a very similar
premise where you can put something behind you. But that's
this is sort of how it originated, was in film
and TV being able to erase a background and add
(32:37):
in a new background. And that's how we shot this
scene with those three obviously up in this massive tool
bridge they were in I believe our stunt room. Were
they in our stunt room and that's where they hung
them upside down? It was either a stunt room or
I think it's I think where it actually was was
what became our second sound stage because we didn't have
(32:58):
We only really had one or two sets built. We
had the Hotel dam More slash Magnus's apartment set, and
we had the Institute set, and then our second down
stage became Simon's house and we had Jade Wolf in there,
but we didn't really have much else, and so you know,
that kind of became our rotating set that they would
build different things that we had. We had a few
(33:19):
more established sets in the future, but at that point
that was just kind of where they would throw things up.
You know, we should do let's not mention what is
and isn't a set okay yet, and later on, let's
once these have sort of been released, let's later on,
let's let's run a pole. Let's run a pole to
see how many people think certain sets are sets versus
(33:42):
which sets are actually on location act they think they
did such a good job with so many of them.
I think that's a really cool idea if we put
you know, let's say fifty of our locations up, ignoring
the obvious ones. The institute obviously was we built that
in the studio, and I think most people have sort
of seen that, But a lot of these other ones
you wouldn't necessarily be sure because they did such a
(34:02):
good job. So it would be interesting. It would be
interesting for people to sort of judge whether or not, like,
did they do this? Did they do this? So let's
let's put an earmark in that for the future, and
maybe we'll run a little a little competition and the
winner gets to take cat. There's no way anyway. We
(34:23):
discussed sort of somewhat the accouterra math that you have
your outfits and how potentially unwelcoming they were to the environment.
So why don't you tell us? Why don't you tell us?
From the horse's mouth as it were, what the issue
was on this day. Well, at this point, Clary is
still wearing Isabelle's clothing because she has yet to you know,
Amazon prime some leather jackets of her own to the institute,
(34:48):
or however the shadow Hunters get their clothes. I don't know.
I just assume Amarand and I used to always talk
about this. I just assume that, you know, they're constantly
delivering different things to the outside of this old, decrepit church,
and either we have someone on the inside of ups
or just people just leave boxes and have no idea
where they go. However it happens, it happens. But it
(35:11):
happened to rain that night that we were out under
the bridge filming all of this, and in order to
attempt to make it less muddy, because all of us
tended to sink into that ground as we were running
downhill to the van, they put plywood down, and then
they put leaves and other accoutrement to disguise this plywood
so it didn't look like they just slapped it something
(35:33):
on the ground in the middle of nowhere. But in essence,
what that led to, in my it inched a lot
of boots is a bit of ice skating down the hill,
and as Dom knows, I am not good at ice skating,
as you will all know at some point in there,
not too just a future. We discussed cats ice skating
ability for sure, sure, but you know, there was a
very particular take that I think again clumsy cat rises
(35:56):
again and Dom you've got a bit of a kick
out of. As we were renting down the hill with
my gusto, I started sliding and ended up face planting
into the pandavan, which I was very glad it was
there to catch me, but it was not the most
comfortable of things to run into. But again, comic relief,
(36:17):
comic relief, solid comic relief for the day. I mean, look,
thank god you weren't injured. Obviously that it was the
number one thing we want to avoid. But yeah, it
was a little like you know, once it starts going,
once someone starts sliding, it's that sort of slow motion
car crash thing where like someone should do something, but
nobody has the ability, So I guess she's just going
(36:37):
to hit it. What we do, She's just going to
literally and that was, yeah, that's what happened. But you know, honestly,
credited credit to you. Cat. You know, you pick yourself
up and you dust yourself off and you keep going.
And that's a mark of a true professional. That's what
we all do, as we will discover next week. I
have some fun stories, were not fun some story. I
(36:59):
have some stories about what happened in episode three. I
have some more stories, but credit. I want to give
some credit quickly to a few people in this. First
of all, well, you have to understand as a guest star,
so there are like tears of um, I guess contracts
when you come into a TV show and they offer
you a different sort of a different role within within
(37:21):
the family when you joined the show. So for example,
the roles that Cat and I had, and Matt and
Emerald and Alberto and Harry and Isaiah, we were series regular,
so we were we were signed under a contract and
we sort of knew us seven we're going to be
kind of the core group of what we created this
world around that's great, So we obviously spent the most
(37:41):
time together. Then you get characters like David, like Raphael
who come in and they're called guest stars and they
come in for an undetermined amount of episodes and just
have to be a part of this family as if
they have been with us the entire time, when we
have trained together, and we have learned fight scenes together,
and we developed these car together. And these guest stars
have to come in and just just perform as if
(38:04):
they've been a part of this world forever. And they
do such a good job. And it's honestly one of
the harder jobs on set to do, because it's terrifying.
It's a terrifying thing to do. You don't know these people,
you don't know the crew, you don't you know, and
it's very rare that you come in and people are
rude to your mean to you, but you never know,
so you're coming in just completely on your own. It's
like joining a new school three years into the school,
(38:26):
you know, term. It's it's really hard work. And they
all do such a good job. And David particularly sat
in very very well with us. And then also we
we were talking about the Silent Brothers earlier, and as
all of you who've watched the episode will have noticed,
I'm sure they have sewn up eyes and sewn up mouths.
Are you Silent Brothers? And they are in that for
(38:47):
the day, especially Stephen is in that. I think Stephen
actually had the makeup on his face. There was the
prosthetics over his eyes so we literally can't open his eyes,
and then prosthetics over his mouth as well, so all
he really eats for the days and the thing he
can get through us draw in between the suitures in
his lips, and I think towards the end some of
the other guys had pre built masks on so they
could just take those off and they were okay. But Stephen,
(39:09):
another one of our guest stars, came in and didn't complain.
He just did his thing, and he was in it
for the hours that he was in it four and
at the end of the day got to take it
off and we would share cigarettes with each other outside,
which was hilarious watching him trying to smoke through a
little gap in his lips suits and then get rid
of it. Um. But guest stars deserve so much more
(39:31):
credit than I think they're given, because they really do
have a really tough job, and I will give credit
to them as as and when they come along throughout
the series because they do an amazing job well, especially
with the show like ours that has so much mythology
and and so much to kind of play catch up on.
You know, they're not given a they're not given a
shadow hunt, just codex when they get to work in
(39:53):
the morning. But we did keep one in the hair
and makeup trailer. We did keep one. Yeah, I don't
know where that ended up. We did keep one. We
also also there are times when they didn't know what
had happened previously in the story. They would come in
and you know, hadn't been given the script in between.
So let's say a character Nicola is a good example,
comes in, you know, and there's been eight episodes in between.
(40:15):
So she came in episode two, and then she comes
in again in episode ten and she's like hey, walking
onto set, she's like, hey, just so I know what
has happened between then and now, And I'm like, oh, ship,
hang on, A whole lot of stuff has happened. Just
so you know, my last name isn't the same as
it was last time you came in. Rights, We're gonna
say that so many things, but also too, as to
(40:38):
your point, a lot of these guest stars that come
in are playing these characters that have hindering elements, whether
it be a stitched up mouth or you know, David
was in that white makeup for a lot of Season one,
and so many you know, our Celis had the ears,
and some of our like Hubert and some of the
guys who came in to play Demons were in full
silicones suits head toe for and or more hours a day.
(41:01):
And it just really speaks to the teamwork not only
of our hair and makeup and wardrobe and prosthetics teams
that that helped these people through the day, but to
how great of sports these actors were to come in
and go, yeah, sure, I'll do this for you know,
ten or more hours a day, and I'll figure this
out and play ball with all of you as we
(41:22):
kind of build this world. And it I think that's
why we ended up bringing so many people back, because
we had so many fantastic performers come in and just
absolutely knock it out of the park, which made it
fun for us, because sometimes when you have a new
character coming in, you don't know you're just meeting as
you walk onto set and you don't know how it's
going to be, or you haven't had a chemistry test
(41:43):
with them and you have no idea what you're gonna
gonna get and time and time again. We were so
impressed by these folks who came in and just absolutely
brought so much to the world and helped to fill
it out in such a beautiful way and became a
part of our our family up in Toronto. Yeah, absolutely, alrighty, well, listen,
I think that brings us pretty neatly towards the end
(42:04):
of the episodes, and I think, Cat, what can you
tease about what's coming next? I know what I can tease,
but I don't. I feel like it gives away quite
a lot. Yeah. Well, I think we have a couple
of key things we can tease. Vampires, more vampires, vampires,
lots of vampires, motorcycles, a motorcycle. Oh no, there are more.
(42:25):
You're right, now, you're right, You're right, there's more, just
only ride one. One key motorcycle. One very specific motorcycle,
very motorcycle. Glamours. We see glamors for the first time.
Oh yeah, lots of glamours. And I can't remember what
we're after, but we're after something, Simon at this point,
I mean, we're still after Jocelyn. Yeah, because remember he
(42:47):
gets taken at the end of three and then at
the end of two and three is when we go
get him. Yeah, it doesn't matter, we'll discuss it in
the next episode. We're all going to figure it out together.
It's gonna be great. We're gonna figure out what we're
after together. What else can we tease? I had a
pretty I I had a traumatic time in episode three. Well,
I'm going to tell you all about it when we
discussed it on the podcast. But I had I had
(43:09):
a rough time in episode three. Yeah, it was. It
was a rough time, but you were you were a
trooper through it, you know, despite that day that you had,
and you know, we're going to talk about it, but
it all happened in the course of a few hours.
You still had a smile on your face, and you
still still made it work, and you still were, you know,
somewhat toothless smile, you might even say, still shining. Nonetheless,
(43:34):
my dear Yeah, well, listen everyone, thank you so much
as always for being a part of our Return to
the Shadows. Thank you for listening, and we will see
you next time, and we will bid you Haren Dale
and farewell. Return to the Shadows as hosted an executive
(43:56):
produced by Katherine McNamara and Dominic Sherwood. Our executive producer
is Langley. Our senior producers are Liz Hayes and Diego Tapia,
and our producers are Hannah Harris and Kristin Vermilia. Original
music by Alex Kinsey and performed by Alex Kinsey and
Kathryn McNamara. The episode was mixed by Said the Landscape
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