S1E5 - Moo Shu to Go

Messy emotions are everywhere in this week’s rewatch: Jace is caught in between Clary and Alec while Maryse Lightwood storms in to put her children in their place. This episode serves up a tasting menu of a little bit of everything, from a glimpse inside the werewolf pack and the show’s empowered female characters to the knowledge that Shadowhunters DO indeed sweat. Bon appetit! 

 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:34):
Good morning, Cat, how are you. I'm good. I'm good.
I've had my cup of coffee this morning. I am
ready overachiever. And yet you're still talking to me. They're
paying me to talk to you. And that's true, that's true.
Sealed up in a box, vot yes, blanket for it
for the wind. I think this is just where I live. Now.
You should get a camera outside the blanket for I
want to see like you know, all the times you

(00:56):
like bang your head on the top or like an
elbow goes awry, and you should see this like amorphous
shape inside your house bobbing around, just a ghost under
the ghost under the cover is just waiting. Yeah, no,
better time to dive right in. On that note, welcome
back everyone, Thank you for tuning in for listening to

(01:17):
my silly voice and Cat's lovely voice. Today we are
going to be talking about season one, episode five, Musho
to Go Lots Happens. Very excited to dive in. It
aired February nine, just after My birthday two thousand and sixteen.
Was written by adapted from the books by Cassie Claire,
written by Ed Dector and Angel Deane Lopez, directed by

(01:38):
Kelly Making starring lots of us, all of us basically,
but importantly, the first time that we get to meet
Nicola is this episode? Correct? Right, Yeah, I'm not wrong.
It is the first, and Cat tell us what we're
in store for. So side note, um, I love mush

(01:58):
you both the dish and the Disney character. Just felt
like that needed to go in the universe. Just shout out. Also, logline,
things go awry when Alec watches Clary. Tensions escalate between Alex.
I mean, are there any surprises here? Not at all.
Tensions escalate between Alec and Clary, but when Jason Isabelle

(02:20):
are sent on an intel mission to the Sea Leaves
by Maris Lightwood, Alec is put in charge of keeping
Clary safe, much to both of their chagrin. With his
heart as Nail's mother back in town and Clary's rule
breaking tendencies, Alec finds himself struggling to stick to the
Clave's rules while keeping his promise to Jace. Meanwhile, the
New York City where wolf Pack begins their hunt for

(02:41):
Clary and the Mortal Cup dot dot dot. I feel
like in this episode, as we dive into the shadow
world more, it's Clary's just go and look, I didn't
even know I was a shadow hunter. Everybody's hunting me now.
I don't even know how to handle it. Thank goodness
for the shadow Hunters. Yeah, it's an ex aspirating episode
five for sure, lots goes on. My favorite. This is

(03:04):
one of my favorite episodes because we get to see
like Parkour Simon Spider Simon for the first time, you know,
and I'm super excited to unpack that later. And I
know Alberto will talk about this when we got him on,
but he is such a physical being anyway that I
know he was very excited to start jumping off stuff
and climbing and ripping doors off the hinges and so

(03:27):
on and so forth. So with no guilding the lily
and absolutely no further ado whatsoever, let's dive on in
so a couple of fun facts. We touched on this
last time when we were teasing this episode. But we
shot this episode in July, which, as we know, it
was a very warm month in Toronto. We know specifically

(03:48):
that it was a very we we had no air
conditioning in the studio at the time, so we were
navigating quite a few things, which we'll get into in
some of the later scenes. We're sure. Well. There to
two episodes that I remember being this bad temperature wise,
was this one and then in the belly of the

(04:08):
container ship that fight, Oh my god, around the same
time of year. Actually, I think that was also around
the same time of year. Also with No A C.
That was the big issue. Just this one was bad,
the one in the belly of the ship. I was
sweating so much that day, and the temperature was so
hot that I couldn't tell I was sweating anymore because
the sweat was coming out of my body the same

(04:30):
temperature as outside. So they were like, we have to stop,
we have to wipe you down, and I'm like, I'm
not sweating, and They're like, you are sweating. You're sweating
a whole way. It's like dripping off you. And Shadow
answers as we found out we're not supposed to sweat.
That's true. I remember we had this discussion very It
was actually this episode that we had this discussion. Alec
and Clary have a scene where they are training and

(04:51):
they sort of spar in the institute, and at this
time our institute set had you know, it's meant to
be within the church, but they had put glass walls
on the inside of the church walls, and they used
to put the lights on the outside of the glass,
so you have these giant movie lights. And for those
of you at home who have not been on a
movie set, the lights that we use are quite large,

(05:14):
very bright, and as such quite warm. So if you
put a bright light on the outside of glass, if
you've ever put you know, a magnifying glass to the
sun in the summer on the sidewalk and seeing what
how concentrated the light can get and the heat, um,
that's very much the environment we were in. That's what
it felt like for sure. That's it's funny that you mentioned.

(05:34):
I'm in my pjs, by the way, it's just so
everyone can see I'm in sort of an all in one.
Satin Cat is really representing us in the costume department
on this podcast. But it's funny that you mentioned, because
that's what I was going to say, is like, you know,
when we walked on set, it felt like ants meat,
magnifying glass, this is going to be your day. Yeah. Well,

(05:54):
and it was even to the point where the cameras
stopped working it got so hot. When Matt and I
were shooting that scene, it can just shut down. They
get to a certain point of heat where they shut down.
And it was at that point that the makeup team
looked at us and said, so shadow Hunter sweat, Now
about dripping makeup artists? What they use when you're on

(06:16):
set and you start to look at shiny, which means
you have started to perspire and whatever. They use this
blue like strip, like a like a very thin it
almost looks a bit like tracing paper, and they just
sort of like rub it on your sort of tea zone,
like your Reily tea zone two, and these strips absorb
the excess moisture. And then that was it. And I
remember those days then coming out with like handfuls of

(06:39):
these things and trying to put them on. They were like, right,
these are fucking usless, Someone get me a towel because
they were all saturated, Like just getting rid of this idea,
we're going to just use a towel. They ended up
with blue industrial paper towels for us. That's right, because
that was the only thing that would keep the runes intact. Oddly,
but mop up the sweat. That's the other thing we had,

(06:59):
you know, the ruins that we wear in the show
are these transfer tattoos that you know, in the same
kind you get from a vending machine at a store.
And we even though we would seal them with a
myriad of seilings and stealers and devices and technology, sometimes
you sweat enough and in a leather jacket, they just
they just come right right off. They just come right off.

(07:20):
The irony being at the end of the day, they're
fucking impossible to get off. Of course, you just want
to go home when you're like, I'm tired, I have
like forty of these things on my body. Can you
please get them off me now? And it takes a
team of people scrubbing at you. But huge credit to
our makeup team that figured out eventually that packing tape
takes runs off in the blink of an eye. We'll
talk about that later as well. Have my issues with that.

(07:43):
Some other fun facts. Oh, this episode, we see a
lot more Malik as well, and we get to see
a bit of as we've mentioned before, Clarie and Alex relationship.
We do we also and we see the j C
Box for the first time. We do see the j
C Box for the first time. Correct what is actual
Jonathan's last name, Morgans, No, the C, what's this? What

(08:08):
is the C stand for Jonathan Christopher? It is Jonathan name,
But what's my middle name? Jonathan Christopher? It is Jonathan
Christopher as well. I was because I was trying to
explain this to Decca Um and she was like, is
that box yours and box of indeterminate ownership age A
J and a C. But yeah, that was I was like,
I myself got lost, and you know, there are fun

(08:29):
memes and stuff all over the place and have been
since the beginning of like what is Jason's last name?
And I just I'm praying for the day that nobody
asks me what was your last name in this episode?
And I'm like, I don't know. I don't I didn't
know when we were filming it. I don't know. I
don't know the answers. I'm sorry. Yeah, there's a lot
of questions, questions, a lot of them, and yours keeps changing.

(08:49):
Heaven forbid they wherever to have wedding invitations and have
to write, you know, Clarissa Adele Frame, Morganster and Fairchild
marrying for Last Night. Jonathan Christopher, Whalen Lightwood, Morgan Stone,
Harndale there, well I do know them. Look at that
right off the tongue, they go, good job at seven
in the morning. Seven in the morning. Who knew? Because

(09:10):
where did we end up? We ended up? Wow, I digress.
We I caught myself with that one. But we will
get them. We also for anyone who's keeping count later on.
Then this in this episode, get to see upside down
Simon again. Poor poor guys spent another tick to the
upside down side. I know. Yeah, whoever's keeping the tally
out there, thank you very much one for doing that,

(09:31):
because we are not and too. It's another tick in
the upside down Simon box. Let's see booked a screen cat.
This is your for a. So we have the Jonathan
Christopher box, which is j C. Valentine. We find was
not super creative in naming his not even kids like
prodigies like his Yeah, his his his experiments. I suppose

(09:53):
progeny is experiments, lots of He just loved the name
Jonathan Christopher, like one of these days it's to stick. Yeah.
Maybe that was his dad's name or something. We don't know. Yeah,
one of these j C's. Maybe he just wanted one
j C. And so many of them kept like dying
or turning evil. He was like one of them, one
of them is going to stick. There's going to be
one j C. And he's going to be my buddy,

(10:15):
and that's going to be what we're gonna make pasta,
and it's going to be delightful. I still have a
bone to pick with Valentine because he made the pecorino
pasta for every one of his children except for me,
and I'm still better about it. Just the just the
ones he liked, clearly, just the just the good ones. Yeah. Oh,

(10:35):
so Simon does not get kidnapped by the werewolves, and
I can't remember if Clary does get kidnapped by the
werewolves in the books. I mean, Simon and Clary get
kidnapped so many times by so many different people, I
just assume that it happened. I actually didn't realize that
Simon was not kidnapped. Um And then interesting, Jason Clary's
romance started earlier in the novels and is not abundantly

(10:56):
clear yet in the TV show. That's interesting to me
because I think in reading I didn't realize that it
blossoms sooner. But perhaps I think that comes from the
fact that you know, the books are told from Clary's
perspective and in much more of a first person way,
so you get a lot more of her internal monologue
throughout the books, and so as she's developing feelings for Jace,

(11:17):
there's a lot of monologueng about that internally, but it's
not necessarily something that she's going to pull Simon aside
and be like, oh my god, I'm at this guy. Well,
then it's a feeling, you know, in the books, it's
not potentially this budding romance necessarily so much as it
is one person having feelings for another, and we don't
know whether they're reciprocated or not, which I think actually
we kind of do do in the show. There is

(11:38):
a lot of this, like, obviously Jace feels a certain
way about Clary, but we don't know what that is yet,
whether it's this sort of quasi like adoption of another,
you know, stray that he sees a lot of himself in,
or whether it's a romantic relationship or whatever. And we
also don't really know that from you at this point either,
because you've had a couple of looks towards Simon and

(11:59):
obviously there's this can action between us, and you mentioned
the Simon's your best friend and you know we we
love very much. Get Yeah, it's all it's all happening.
It's all happening. The music, we don't really talk. We
haven't talked about the music. Oh yeah, that's true in
any of the episodes. Yeah, I didn't realize that we

(12:19):
had the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra in this and another j C.
Jonathan Carney and another j C. Jonathan Carney very good
and then Flurry sure nay said Soldier never said it
out loud. I actually think I have that one. I'm
pretty sure I have that song. I think I heard

(12:40):
it in the show and I was like, that's a jam.
I'm going to be driving to that, let's see. And
of course the incomparable This is the Hunt by Ruel,
which became our theme song and actually one of my
favorite memories of our comic cons over the years was
in I think it was Brussels the first time it happened.
At the end of the cam Ma Con, you go

(13:01):
up on stage and kind of say thank you so
much for coming, and we thank the staff and we
you know, kind of wave goodbye to everyone and usually
dance or saying or do something silly, and all of
us were standing on stage. This was right after the
series finale aired. The lights go down, all of the
fans pull out these heart shaped balloons from under their
chairs and start singing the theme song, start singing this

(13:23):
is the Hunt. I just remember all of us instantly
burst into tears because these I call them kids. They're
not kids, but I feel like kids of the show
as it were. But they took such care and time
to come up with the surprise and to execute it
so beautifully and keep it from all of us. It
was such a touching moment. Yeah, that was a really
special moment for us. How lovely. So Okay, now we're

(13:48):
into the episode. Clarion and Isabelle are having a discussion
and suddenly the doors of the institute open and in
walks Mary's Lightwood, Mama Balaze of glory and high heels
and comes and she comes with the power and prestige
that can only come from being one of the most
dangerous shadow hunters in the world. Nicola is another one
similar to Jade. We spoke about Jade a couple of

(14:10):
episodes ago. Just fell right into the group, you know,
was instantly a part of this sort of familial I
guess society that we sort of developed around Shadow Hunters.
And she and she will talk about this when she's on,
but she, I know had and has mentioned sort of
the trepidation of being a guest star, and we again,
we spoke about that in a previous episode, But the
trepidation of coming in as a guest star five episodes

(14:31):
into a show when everyone else has sort of bonded.
And I do think this is why I pride us,
I really do. I pride us on how welcoming we
were to this, to new people coming in, which isn't
always the case on show. So I think we did
a very good job with that. And we you again
mentioned that Nicola and I had a sort of in
at the deepend start, her and I particularly, but a

(14:53):
very special bond from day one. Did you know, I
think I can tell this story and if not, should
we text her? Yeah? Pardon us? Well we you know
what she's getting a voice note Nicola, my dear, I
hope you're doing well. Can and I are in the
middle of filming recording. I don't know how you'd say
a Shadow Hunters podcast, and we were wondering if it

(15:16):
is okay to tell the story of how you and
I first met Visa VI, my fridge and the trailer
and so on and so forth. Let me know, love
you lots, talk to you soon. Bye bye bye bye
bye by by bye bye. So we'll we'll get the
details on that. But I just Nicola is one person
who is so special, and I think has become as

(15:37):
special to the Shadow fam as she is to each
one of us. You know, not only is she come
on be playing a mom but far far too young
to be any of our mothers, But she has this
lovely maternal warmth to her, and also this sense of
mischief and fun and play, and she is just an
enigma in and of herself and all things wonderful, and

(15:57):
has this this real presence about her that is so
charismatic and commanding that you can't help but fall in
love with her. Friend that I agree, I do. I
agree she's a wonderful one as Nicola. And also, you know,
story wise, with Marri's I think the reason that so
many people grew so attached to her is she has

(16:17):
sort of a not necessarily a similar journey as much
as it is sort of a parallel journey to Alec
and his discovery of who he is and her journey through,
albeit it takes some time, but her journey through the
acceptance of not only who he is, but then this
new budding relationship, and then the acceptance of that relationship
and the welcoming of a new family member that is

(16:38):
not a shadow hunter, and you know, so on and
so forth. And I think because audience has got to
experience sort of both sides of of how that goes,
and also, unfortunately, you know, an instant reaction that I
think is still far too common, as we have heard
from fans that the parents are not necessarily instantly on

(16:58):
board with who these people are, especially in the lgbt
Q plus community. And I think being able to see
that art imitating life parallel there via Nicola and via Maris,
which is a difficult thing to do, especially for someone
who is so liberal and understanding and welcoming of of
the LGBTQ community. It's a difficult thing, I think, for

(17:20):
her to put all of that aside and be this
person who is sort of un unappreciative of this one.
And she did a fantastic job of that. But I
think that's, yeah, I digress. I think that's probably the
reason that people were so enamored with her on screen
is because they saw these parallels of these journeys and
then sort of led into the ending that we all
want that we all wanted it to be, which is lovely,

(17:42):
and she did a fantastic yeah, and especially in the
way that you know she it was all played with
such honesty and such a beauty to the story in
the same way that Malick developed throughout the years. As
you said, it kind of paralleled. But it's also been
so lovely to see Nicola at comic CON's and with
the fandom and to watch them embrace her, you know,
literally and figuratively. And also she's she's given all of

(18:05):
us advice over the years on so many aspects of
life and love and work and everything that. To to
watch her do that at comic cons as well, and
to be able to answer questions about life and and
everything in between, it's just a beautiful thing to see.
And you know, she's she does a lot of things
like that on Instagram now as well, And I just

(18:25):
I just think the world of her, and I think
she's the coolest and I missed her like crazy, but
I digress as she comes in with a blaze of glory.
We we sort of are exploring very different mother daughter
dynamics at the beginning of this episode, and we see that,
you know, Clarie and Jocelyn have well now, especially a
particularly strained relationship given that you know, Clary finds up

(18:47):
she's been lied to for eighteen years and also protected,
but also memories stolen. But and now there's you know,
interdimensional distance, but we see the physical distance, physical distance
as well chernobyl Um. We see that there's quite the
distance between Isabelle and Mari's lightwood as well and Alec
and Meri's lightwood they have and it is never I
wonder if this is in the books. It's never fully

(19:10):
explained in our show why Maris is so much more
affectionate to Jace, you know what I mean, blamed. Yeah,
it's never explained, but I think that's just how the
relationships have played out. You know, she's very hard on
isabel loves Alec but is still very rigid with him,
and then Jace is kind of her. She's very tender

(19:31):
with him and very kind of loving toward him. And
I'm not sure. Is that something that you two ever
spoke about. We did speak about it, yeah, And I think,
at least from my point of view, I think where
it came from was a mix of his abilities, the
fact that he is very good at what he does, Jase,
that is very good at what he does, and that
being a useful tool for higher ranking member of the

(19:55):
military ranks, of the shadow answers is a very useful
tool for her. And also part at least sort of
this this intrinsic, very hidden softness that comes with Meriss,
where you know, she loves Alec and Iszi and she
will always love alecan Issy, and she's told them, you know,
or it's sort of the unspoken thing. Whereas Jason needed
love and that's what he needed. He needed that in

(20:16):
his life. He joined the family at ten, he had
no one will find out later on what happened those
first ten years of his life and how difficult it was.
So he needed that, And I wonder if that's more
where it came from, that sort of maternal instinct, just
an instinct to see, you know, there's this lost bird
that needs to be cradled. And as a result, Jason
was cradled, So who knows, really is the truth? Tell

(20:40):
us what you think, tell us what you think about
that relationship when you hear this, let us know what
you think that was and where you think it came from.
And I think that's you know, that's something that's so
interesting about not just the show, but the fact that
the show is a book. Previously, everyone and so many
people have told us, both in a positive fashion that
Cat was the Clary they envisioned and I was the

(21:02):
j they envisioned, but also in a negative fashion that
I was not the vision. And people are very open
about that, and that's that's okay, that's in fact, it's encouraged.
It's one of the that's one of the nice things
about art, about media, about about books, about TV shows.
We give you permission to develop your own opinions. We
encourage you to develop your own opinions, because that's what

(21:24):
makes art so interesting. Otherwise, you know, if there's no
black or white in it, if there's no opinion either way,
then everything is gray and everything ends up being the same.
So I like that there's negative opinion one because it
means that you actually engaged with what it was. Whatever
the art form was and too because I'm prove you
wrong and I'm going to show you that I was
the right person to do this, you know what I

(21:45):
mean something that I always had massive respect for with

(22:06):
with the Shadow fam and and sort of the conversations
that would happen on Twitter and Instagram and on the interwebs,
there's always a level of respect for the most part,
you know, with the with the exception of a few situations,
I loved seeing the debate happen because are this fandom
is not afraid to have conversations and to share their
opinions and to have difference as an opinion, and yet

(22:28):
everyone's opinion is always respected. And I you know, you
go through and you need to read conversations between I've
seen quite a few times where that was not the case,
where opinions were not respected. But for the most part, yes,
there are times where that happens, but for the most part,
on the whole, over the course of the show airing it,
I saw so many debates that were debate for the

(22:49):
sake of debate and for discussion and conversations. Seeing people go, oh,
I never thought about it that way. That's interesting. I
see how you see that I feel this way, but
I see what you mean, and just to why people
share their opinions and allow themselves to have differences of
opinion without it becoming so much what our show is about.
There's so much in our show that is about learning

(23:10):
and discussing and developing new opinions based on new stimulus
and actually having the ability and the strength to say
within you like I was wrong in that moment. I
register your opinion. I think you are correct in this moment,
and I will move forward with a more open mind
thinking about whatever the thing is, which I think is fascinating.

(23:31):
It's also interesting in relation to talking about being the
correct or incorrect person for the role or whatever. I
remember when g announced me for this and it was
an It was overwhelmingly positive. Honestly, it was positive. But
I've said this before in going to say it again now,
positive is great. The one percent, the one bad comment

(23:52):
in a hundred ruins my day Like that really upsets me,
and it will ruin my day and I will obsess
about it for for the rest of the day. It
was overwhelmingly positive, but and it's it's interesting. It just
reminded me of this because I just saw a thing
with Amelia Clark recently, who played Denarus target Arian in
Game of Thrones. I think yes, correct, and the fans
are upset that she's Amelia is not blonde and Denarus was.

(24:16):
And the response sort of overwhelmingly was like, well, wait
until you find out that the dragons aren't real, You're
gonna be really upset, you know what I mean? And
I had a similar thing when I got cast as
Jay's like, but he's not blonde. He's and I'm sort
of blonde ish now, but that's I had. I have
blonde hair for partner track. I'm not blonde, um naturally,
I'm brunette. And I had a similar thing where they
were like, he's not blonde, he can't play the character

(24:37):
he's not blond. And I was like, wait until you
find out I'm not part angel, You're gonna be really upset.
You know. It's a funny thing, but we you know
that is is what it is. That's a part of
what we do, and part of the fun is discovering
how you're gonna physically attribute this character. And we get
to have those conversations early on, Like one of them

(24:58):
was I remember g coming into the training room with me,
and you know when we were remember that first training
room we had there was that little, tiny, little Jim
before we started going to Jim. It was horrendous. And
McGee came in and he goes, hey, man, didn't mean
to bother you, just wanted you to know. We're having
a conversation about Jay's being British. And I was like, oh, um, okay,

(25:20):
let me think about it. And we had the discussion.
I said, I don't think that makes any sense because
for the large portion of his life he was raised
in New York with Alec and with Izzy, so it
makes the most sense for him to be American. And
as we come to find out later on, his father
is also American. His his father who was raised who

(25:41):
he was raised by, was American, So it didn't make
really any sense for him not to be American as
far as the story goes, as far as the cannon goes. Um.
So we had that conversation. But it's a fun thing
to be able to do at the beginning of the show,
is like, how are we going to what are we
going to do with this character? Are we going to
develop this character? And being able to have those conversations
is lovely, you know, like in season two, Oh my gosh,

(26:02):
in season two, this was a really fun thing for
us to do. And I remember talking to Matt Hastings
about this, who was our executive producer in season two
and three, and I said, you know, having read the scripts,
now I know that the stella's for Jason kind of
gone and he has this ability to activate ruins sort
of on his own. Why don't we when we do this, um,
and this is one of my prouder ideas that I've

(26:23):
had on the show. Why don't we give a little
nod to the book fans? Because again, sorry, let me
go back to the beginning where the story started. At
the beginning with McGee, we had the conversation of like,
are we going to give Jason's sort of golden eyes
that he has in the books? And McGee was like, absolutely,
which is a really nice thing for me as someone
who struggled with the identity of having different colored eyes

(26:46):
and not really seeing anyone who looks like me, you know,
not that it's necessarily a big thing, but it's just
a little alien. Can't change your eyes down there, they're
too iconic. Well, and that's what McGee said is he's
he said, no, we're not going to change your eyes.
Your eyes are awesome. We're gonna keep them as they are,
which is a really nice thing for me to have.
Or I was like, Oh, this is a cool little
validation for me. But then in season two I remember saying,

(27:08):
why don't we give a little nod to the book fans?
So whenever these runs get activated, the eyes go with it,
and you see Jase's gold eyes on screen for the
first time for these people again who read the books
and imagine Jace with gold eyes, there was the way
they saw him. So that was cool. I forget what
we were talking about, not that I don't think we
were talking about Nicola's entrance, but you know, something else

(27:29):
I wanted to bring up is having someone like Nicola
come in and just absolutely be such a powerhouse and
playing this really incredibly empowered character. It's just another example
of something that the writers and the show did very well,
especially as we get people like Alicia and we get
you know, the Seeley Queen and all these other characters
that come into the show. The show was so good

(27:49):
at creating a myriad of different female characters that we're
all empowered in their own way, and all had their
own agency and their own their own kind of way
of fighting their own battles. And yet none of them
were the same. They weren't all you know, tough and badass,
and they didn't all look the same, they didn't behave
the same they didn't have the same skills and abilities

(28:10):
and proclivities. And it's you know, as someone who grew
up looking for these kind of badass female characters, Pocohonist,
Mulan were my favorite Disney princesses, things like this, It's
it was such a gift to be a part of
a show that was so cognizant of doing that with
all of these characters, to sort of show that look
doesn't matter who you are, where you come from, what

(28:30):
you look like, what your personality is, you can still
be an empowered character and you can still have agency
in your own story. The empowered female character doesn't fit
into one mold. I agree, and Nicola was one of
the first examples of that. She was I was just
about to say, Nicola really embodied that very early on
for us, which was lovely, and you know, Lydia comes

(28:51):
into it as well. Lates on as another very strong woman.
And what I like about Lydia's character is her strength
isn't negated by her gentleness, you know, but she has
a moment of real softness with Alec that is not
It's in no way takes away from her power and
actually gives her more power when you know, she gives

(29:11):
him the permission to be who he is, and it
doesn't take away from Lydia being this strong woman. It
actually adds to her being the strong one, which I
thought was very cool and very well written. Exactly, Um,
we have only discussed one of our talking points. Thus
we need to keep powering through Jason. Is he go

(29:32):
off on their respective missions? Or do you guys go together?
Don't you want to talk to Meliorn? We go together?
We go? Yeah, we go together, which is also a
respective mission, but respectively, maybe we have two different goals there.
Jace doesn't have the same relationship with Melian as Isabelle do.
That's for sure, unless it was in the subtext. If
it was, I never read it. I mean, listen, you
never know what happens in the seil the globe, what

(29:53):
happens in the ceil the court stays in the Seilor Court,
I think he says, I think he even says in
that scene, I think he says, if so many shadow
Hunters were as open minded as you, perhaps the world
would be a different place or something along those lines.
And Jay's you know, Jason is fun. He has these
moments and we actually had one in the last episode
that we missed book Club. We had one in the

(30:15):
last episode that we sort of paved over, which is
actually one of my favorite little moments in the episode,
and we get to see Matt do. Matt has these
amazing idiosyncrasies and little moments that aren't really scripted. Jas
doesn't really understand sometimes the concept of relationships or sexuality.
In a lot of ways, he sort of gets it,
but also it kind of goes over his head sometimes.

(30:36):
So in this conversation with Leon is very suggestive in
some ways, and Jace doesn't really get it, you know.
And there's another one when we're just about to go
and do the Memory Demon thing. I can't believe we
miss this because such a good moment where Magnus says,
pretty boy, get your team ready, and Jas has got
it great outstand and he goes, no, no, not you,
I meant you, and Jason is like, what what do

(30:59):
you mean? And has this great go go back and
give the ship out of that little face that he does,
that little shrug that he does, because it's so brilliant,
I don't know, but also really like he's very proud
like he you know, as is mentioned, has been in
Jason's shadow, which is very odd to me because he's

(31:20):
arguably the most handsome man to have ever walked the
face of the planet, but he has been in that place.
To get this compliment was a real uplifting moment for Alec,
which I thought was really lovely. Um, and there's another
one of these in this scene where it just sort
of shoots right over Jason's head of course, and the yes,
we have our moment with the butterflies. We understand that
the scouts, the seven Seely Scouts, which is very difficult

(31:43):
to say. Credit to Matthew Dario for his credit to
Matthew Didario. We find out in this scene that that
mission has failed, um, and the see Scouts are dead,
and we have found out little too zero about what
we need moving forward in this mission true, which takes
us to the Alec Clary mission little sneaky Clary has

(32:06):
snuck out, as sneakers often do well. First of all,
Alec is trying to actually do his job and keep
his problems to Chase and teach Clary. You know, if
this little girl is going to be stuck here with us,
she might as well learn something so she's not you know,
deadweight on the team. And they have a little bow
staff sparring match. This is my first time fighting with

(32:28):
a bow staff, which became one of my favorite weapons
down the line. Being a tiny human having a weapon
that's taller than you are is there's there's something really
fun to that and to the kind of power that
you can get out of something that has such a leverage.
But also this is my first time, you know, doing
a sparring scene with Matt, and we had a lot
of fun getting real bow staffs. Weren't they weren't they

(32:50):
real boast off? They had to so they had kind
of foamy, rubbery ones and then they had hardwards. These
weren't the bamboo ones that so and and I had
another bow staff sparring scene in season two and we
used actual bamboo bo staffs for that. This one was
they were I think rubber mostly they made of the
same stuff that our swords ended up being made of
in season two, and Beyonce, they were pretty heavy, and

(33:12):
at this point I just started, ye, people, forget about it.
You've got these rubberized swords, and the two factors that
you need to know about these swords in season two
more in season one. In season one they just didn't
really work. But in season two they are the ones
we fight with. Are made of a softer material than actual,
you know, raise a sharp metal, which I think everyone

(33:32):
was very grateful for. But the point the tip of
the sword was very rubberized, so if you if you've
got to misstab, the tip would bend and it was
okay and you were safe. But the rest of it
was still quite solid. So if you get hit in
the hand, it sucks like it really really split knuckles,
a lot of split knuckles. Definitely a couple of fractured

(33:54):
bones over the course of I think my fingers are
never going to be the same, but they do. And
then the the thing that people forget about, which I
think is very funny, is the way temperature reacts to
these weapons. So when it's hot, not a huge deal.
The swords you know they hurt, but we trained very hard,
and you know, you can't do your own stunts and

(34:14):
every time you know, scrape your knee, go to the
stunt team, go scrape knee. You have to get like
you're doing your stunts. You're gonna get a little bruised
every now and occupational, right, what happens. But when it's cold,
they freeze. These things freeze, so they turn into these
solid like fifteen pounds, just like almost like maces, like
baseball bats. And then when you get hit with them,

(34:36):
that really hurts, That really sucks. Referring to the hern,
I am referring to the horn. Yeah, when you get
we will get to the horn always. Sure. Well that's
season three, that the one I'm particularly talking about. It's
not till season three with Luke where my sword had
div it's out of it, like four chunks that were
Luke's sword shaped out of my sword. You know a

(34:58):
lot of moments where if my blood wasn't in the
right place, that sort was coming at Dom's face. Fun times.
But this was, as we referred to at the beginning
of the episode, um the let's let's cook the cast
and crew scene and shadow hunters do indeed sweat and
after a very sweaty sparring match between Alec and Clary, Alec,

(35:20):
it's a phone call from the one and only Magnus Spain.
Magnus Spain, the one and only, in true Magnus Spain fashion.
I feel like if we had more budget for these episodes,
he would have just appeared. He would have just turned
up in a portal and then like you, let's go
for drinks, you know what I mean, think about it,
like hard to get Meanwhile, Clary is tiptoeing out of
the institute very like Louisy Tunes, very yeah, very bugs bunny,

(35:45):
like we're hunting webbits like very out of the institute,
which is kind of our first for a into like
and we will get through this. Actually, this is another
list that if you're listening you should start taking down.
How many times people say Clary, don't Clary, stop Clary,

(36:05):
wait Harry, No, it is very don't do that. Relentless,
relentless in this show, to the point where arguably all
of the things go that go wrong later on are
entirely Cleary's fault, like entirely her fault. I mean, potentially
there is there is a very strong argument for that
to be the case, very strong argument to be made anyway.

(36:27):
This is our first moment that we sort of see
Clary sneak off and follow her poorly trained, arguably poor
in general instincts to go off into the world. But
it's interesting because we do see her make an attempt,
you know, whereas previously she's she's grabbing swords and not
knowing what they're going to do and accidentally stabbing people too,
now she's thinking about it and going, Okay, I'm going

(36:50):
out in the mundane world. I need to sort of
see what's going on. I'll do an invisibility room, because
she's obviously learned that by this point, so she does
the invisibility ruin. She glamours herself in public, and it's
one of these these lovely moments where the mundane world
crosses over into the shadow world. And she's standing outside
the Brooklyn Academy of Art and her cell phone rings

(37:12):
and she's invisible, but everyone around, all the Mundanes are
going where is whose self? Is it mine? Is it yours?
I don't know? And then suddenly Alec appears and go
in child's her for not thinking of using the soundless
room as well, which you silly who knew, silly idiot.
The reality is we do literally have a room for everything,

(37:33):
which is both a very cool thing and also a
nightmare storytelling wise, because it's like, why didn't you just
and we're like, we know, we could have used a
room for that. We should have used a room for that.
There's one that we previously put in the show that
would have been perfect in this situation that we just
didn't use. Like exactly, it happens all the time, which

(37:54):
I think is very funny. Anyway, I digress. Let's move
on to Sparring dis Here is she is out in
the world. She gets Oh, you know what we were
talking about this next little section in a previous episode,
and I was going to wait and hollow back to
this now, which is me hollering. Is the Simon phone call? Yes?

(38:15):
The cool this is and this is you know, the
real mark of a true friend, which is interesting because
both Simon and Alberto at this person in both of
our lives. I think like I was going through a breakup,
like relatively recently, as in within the time that shadow
and has finished and spoke to Alberto. I was like dude,

(38:36):
I'm struggling and like, I'm having a really tough time,
and he was. He flew from where he was to
where I was and was there that evening and came
and hung out and just was there for me. And one,
I think more ex essentially not really related to the show,
there's a really nice thing there which is like men

(38:58):
encouraging men to be more open with their emotions, which
doesn't happen as often as it could. And that was
really lovely to know that I have a safe place
with Alberto to do that. And two more related to
the show. Entirely related to the show, we get to
really cement who Simon is intrinsically in in himself, this
character who is struggling and doesn't know what's going on

(39:19):
with him. He's just being kidnapped, He's had this horrendous experience.
Clary calls and he goes, great, I'm gonna meet you
the shortcut. No, I'm going to meet you the shortcut
like that. That is what's going to happen, because I'm
your friend and you need me, and I'm going to
be there for you. And it's interesting to me that
almost coincidentally Alberto ended up being entirely that human being.
I've always said this, you know, Simon, Alberto will always

(39:41):
be this time into my clary and he he was
that for me, you know, given that we were in
the audition process together and we both read all the
books and nerded out about them on a daily basis.
And I don't know if you remember, but you know,
the three of us lived in the same building during
the first season, but Alberto and I had apartments literal
only next door to each other, just purely by coincidence.

(40:03):
And after work every day we'd stand out on the balconies.
Alberto would play jazz and we just look out at
Toronto and kind of figure out what this process was
that we were going through and kind of talk about
it and share different things. And and he became that,
as you said, for all of us. He's the person
you can call at three am or you know, when
we're out, the person you have a quiet conversation with

(40:25):
while you're stepping out on the balcony. Have we have
sister cats, Alberta and I because I was struggling with
something going on in my life. I's got kids together
and it's very drunk, and I called him and I
was like, al So, I'm drunk and I think I'm
gonna go by a kiddy. Do you want one? And
he was drunk and went, I think I do. And

(40:45):
we went and we bought these cats and we took
them home Raja and sell our little babies. And we
woke up the next day and I have this little kitten,
you know, about the size of a hamster on my
chest and I sort of that hungover, like one eye
opened and I looked down and I'm like, oh, what
have I done? And I called Alberta without moving because
she's asleep. Raja is asleep on my chest without moving,

(41:06):
and hey man, do you have a cat? And he goes, yeah,
do you have a cat? I'm like, yep, all right,
I'll see you a little bit. And that was that
was that story. Oh my god. One of my favorite
things that happened throughout the course of filming our show
is you guys bringing Rajah instill it into our lives.
Because they were such cute little nights. You ended up
sort of being like these emotional support animals on set,

(41:29):
you know, if someone was having a tough day, because
they would come to work with us and they would
sort of live in our trailers, just the two of them,
and if someone was having a tough day, like I
would go into my trailer after, you know, after a
section of filming or whatever, and there's like someone in
there who's, you know, crying or had a rough time,
just holding Rajah and I'm like, I'll give you ten minutes,
see you later. I'll be out here. Don't you worry
about it. And they sort of became these like emotional

(41:51):
support animals on the set, which was very very sweet.

(42:15):
Speaking of emotional support animals, Let's let's keep moving forward.
So something else I want to bring up. There's a
fun dynamic here that continues throughout the show and as
Alecan Clary's friendship hate ship to friendship to partnership kind
of develops, as it were, it starts off with this
quite sarcastic, pointed banter. And because Clary is from a

(42:37):
world that is not the Shadow world and is not
so archaic, she sees the connection with Alecan Magnus and
she can kind of tell that there's something there and
is one of the first to encourage alec to or
even with you know, with Jason, and sees she sees
these connections that he has, and she sees love and
it's like, why don't you go for it? It makes
no sense to her that Alec isn't pursued doing these

(43:00):
feelings that he has because she doesn't understand the sort
of archaic nature of the world. And they have this
you know, lovely back and forth about middle school comebacks
and this kind of humorous exchange that is a bit hostile,
but you know, tends to be a recurring theme in
all of their conversations throughout the series. And one reason
that I love working with Matt so much because we

(43:20):
had fun, very very munus as it were, which leads
us to Spider Simon quite neatly, Spider Simon, who I
think he did the jump. So they meet up at
this sort of neutral place. He says that he knows Brooklyn,
which he does more than anyone else, and leaps up

(43:41):
this wall with the agility of like a cat on
crack cocaine and just hops over it. And I think
she I think he did that, didn't he? I think?
And everyone was like, wow, okay, cool. We we weren't
sure that that was something that anyone could do, but
you did. So there we go yes, we're just going
to put that in the show. Well, because we know

(44:02):
the apartment the Fray apartment, because they're going back to
the Fray house to find whatever they can, whatever clues
about Clary's past, because her memories are gone, so the
only recourse they have is to go back to the
burned apartment and see what's going on. And Simon knows
the back way we get to the house. Yes, things
have gone awry. The house has been burnt, the apartment
has been burnt. There's no real clues left save four

(44:26):
dunda duh the j C Box in the floorboard, which
Simon finds because of his new ability to hear the
hollowness of this one plank in the floorboard. Who knows
where that ability comes from? Shadow, I am right exactly,
Freddie foreshadowing again, which again is another like God shadow.

(44:47):
Once as a useless like he leaps over this ten
foot wall, he rips a door clean off the hinges
he can see runs, and then all of a sudden
he can hear things that nobody else can hear. And
Alec is just like, that's strange. Didn't know that, Alex
a bit distracted. Magnus Bane just asked him how to date,
so we can we can give him a moment I

(45:07):
would I would have been distracted. Also, that's absolutely fair.
He's also having to deal with a bunch of Mundanes. Correct.
Speaking of a bunch of Mundanes. We do get a
glimpse of Valentine as well, back at Chernobyl, and we
get to see him injecting a group of volunteers with
Seely blood as he's we see him experimenting, and we
don't really know what his plan is yet, but he's

(45:28):
trying to develop this super soldier prototype, as it were.
Totally and as the story goes on, so correct me
if I'm wrong. But it's not the Seely blood he's after, right,
it's the angel blood within the Seely blood, the mix
of it's the angel blood that he wants to inject.
That would make sense, isn't it. I don't. I've gone

(45:48):
back and I've looked, and his experimentation is not entirely
clear in season one, um, and I think it's just
probably the fact that it's been so long. I knew
this mythology at one point, and there's there's there are
many layers to Valentine's evil plot or maybe not. Maybe
he's a madman and there is no logic. Maybe that's
a madman. He's a madman. He's a madman. You mean

(46:09):
a madman, not a madman. What are you talking about.
It's not his last name. It's not spiderman. He's a
spider man, fully quoting, fully quoting friends there. We had
this argument on set, you, me and Alberto who Albert
and he knows it, pisces me off, and it still
pisces me off, and he still says it. He says cameraman,

(46:29):
which I think is correct. Now now it doesn't sound
strange to me anymore, but cameraman cameraman, like it's not.
It wasn't like Drew Cameraman. His last name isn't. I
don't know he's a cameraman. I think it's what he
does for a lose. It was Glenn Cameraman. But now,
because he said it so many times, I can't it

(46:50):
makes sense to me that it's cameraman. And now I
don't know which one's correct. I I don't know which
way is up anymore, honestly, And now I'm confused because
I feel like I've always said cameraman on cameraman and
now I'm like, is it Spider Man? It might be
Spider Man, I don't know, somebody called Tom Holland producing team.
We're gonna have to reach out to Tom Holland and
get him on the show or Toby McGuire. All three

(47:11):
of them could be amazing. I'm a big fan of
all three of those guys. If we could get them
on to talk zero things shadow Hunters and all things
Spider Man slash Spider Man, that would be amazing. Let's
let's touch on Jade Wolf, because this is we get
to see the Jade Wolf for the first time. Yes,
and before we get into too much of what happens next,

(47:34):
we need to address the werewolf in the room. The
few werewolves in the room? Where werewolves wolves? Now, language
is letting me down completely. Werewolves is the plural of werewolf? Correct? Yes? Yes, great?
But this is this is something that you know we've
put the I'll be curious to see obviously we're recording

(47:54):
this in advance, but I'll be curious to see what
folks think because we've put out our is this a
set or is this an actual location poll about the
Jade Wolf for this episode? Because this this became one
of our kind of home bases on set, particularly in
the season one and a lot of season two because
it was on our sound stage. It was the only

(48:16):
set on our stage two, which sort of became our
utility stage. I think that lasted all three seasons. It
was there from the beginning. It was one of the
first sets that was built and was there until the
very end. And I remember when we were shooting the
last episode, they started to take it down before we
were done shooting, and I couldn't. I physically couldn't bring
myself to go to studio to to see it in disarray.

(48:38):
I couldn't. I couldn't do it. One of the one
of the fun things that people should know about sets
is they are sort of like Ikea furniture almost. They
are designed to be put up very quickly and to
be taken down very quickly and literally flat packed into boxes.
The entire Jade Wolf set and these sets were designed

(49:01):
and you know on the back of them you can
see east facing War one with large window whatever the
handwritten onto the walls. So they physically get flat packed
and put in storage boxes. So if they ever need
to be reopened or reused, they bring them out and
they reassemble them borderline with like an Ikea alan key.
They just like fit them all together and then they
got to go again. And that's how sets are built. Yeah.

(49:23):
So as amazing as they look on the inside, if
you ever saw the outside of these sets, they look
like piss poor Ikea furniture, which is I always thought
was really funny. And a couple of features of our
Jade Wolf set in particular, um, the exterior of the
Jade Wolf did not match the interior. Given that, as
Tom says, if you look at the outside of these sets,
they aren't complete. Um, But one of the exterior doors

(49:45):
of our studio we had painted too to match the
same door. So you walk through one door that looks
like you're walking into the Jade Wolf from the outside,
you're actually walking into our sound stage. You walk about
twenty ft, you go through a nondescript plightwood door and
suddenly learned into the Jade Wolf. But the interior interior
door to the Jade Wolf had a doggie door, and

(50:06):
I had totally forgotten about that. The bottom half swung it.
That's right. It's funny them to walk in as werewolves
or as people. How funny. That's absolutely And also there
were the cooked ducks hanging in the back because, as
we know, Jade Wolf as a Chinese restaurant, which with
one of you and I started to do this as
we got more comfortable on these sets, we found little

(50:27):
easter eggs and little ways to throw in character actions,
two different and it was really upset about it. I
think it did. I think it got cut because I thought,
I when I figured it out in the books Gone,
you explain, You explain in the books Jason has a
fear of ducks. We don't know why, we don't know how.
Clary finds it incredibly amusing, but he's petrified of ducks.
And one day we noticed that there were all of

(50:49):
these cooked ducks hanging in the Jade Wolf, so dumb,
I thought it was very interesting. It's not in this episode,
but I thought it would be an interesting thing. I
walked into the set and noticed that these ducks were there,
and I thought it would be a cool thing. You know,
I think I'm pretty sure it's Isaiah first, and then
you and then me, and Isaiah's pissed, Lucas pissed in
this moment. Actually think that was the day he was

(51:10):
trying to bust the doors off the hinges by going
through them so quickly, and as Jace walks through, he
notices these ducks and just had a little like nope,
and like took sort of the long way around, and
I think it ended up getting cut, which is a
real shame because it was just in the soft background
and it was just another little nod to like the
book fans of like, did he just walk further away

(51:31):
from cook ducks because he doesn't like ducks? You know?
But I don't know the answer is yes, he did,
Yes he did. Yes, footage is there somewhere. There are
a few moments like that threaded throughout the show of
things that we did. So if you notice any of
those as you're rewatching with us right in, let us
I want to hear if you, because I think a
lot of them we have even forgotten that we did

(51:52):
because they just sort of happened in the moment, or
it was a spur of the idea, or if you
notice something that we didn't do intentionally, we can just
take credit for it and be like, yeah, was a
conscious choice from us. Look how good actors we are.
But we find out in this scene. We also get
to this is sort of our werewolf episode, you know,
we get to learn about how the werewolf pack works
and its structure and its rules. We also get to

(52:14):
see a lot more of Joel LaBelle that who we
love very dearly as Alaric, and we get to meet
the pack leader, Theo played by Ari Cohen. This episode
we do and we get to learn a lot more
about the hierarchy of werewolves. You know, each each different
race within this world has a hierarchy, and we've got
to see a little of the Warlocks in that Magnus

(52:37):
is the high Warlock of Brooklyn. He's sort of in
charge of that area and making sure that the Warlocks
are kept safe, and we saw a lot of that
early on in that episode. We've got to see a
little of the Selle's. I don't think you mentioned the
Seeley Queen yet, but we know that he is working
with a group of Selee's that are are not happy
with how shadow Hunters deal and the Clave deals with things.

(53:00):
And now for the first time, we're getting to see
the hierarchy um and there's sort of pecking order of
werewolves and how that works, and we understand their law
and the tensions within that for sure. And speaking of hierarchy,
Alaric shows up at the Fray apartment. He does well, Alec,
here's a noise, goes to check it out, suddenly comes back.

(53:21):
And of course the Mundane's do nothing but cause trouble,
or the former Mundanees and the mundane do nothing but
cause trouble for Alec as they get kidnapped by Joel
a belt and there's a brief. I don't know if
you're looking at it. There's a wonderful screenshot of Joel
pushing my head into the car and I think my
face is quite yeah, and it's quite a picture. Make

(53:41):
sure it's one of those action shots that you just
go love it. We may have to make that public.
That's very funny. I've already been dubbed Katherine mcnamim. It's
just a thing now, Catherine mcnamim. I like that, Mimi.
It's a face, Is it a me? It's We'll have
to ask another one exactly, exactly exactly, which leads us

(54:04):
fairly neatly to two things. One I think is very
entertaining and the other is very important story wise. Number one,
Simon upside down again. Yes, poor Simon being strung up
by his ankles. I don't know why that's necessary. He
was in a prison. I don't know why it was
necessary for him to be hung upside down again other
than for hysterical comic relief and to torture poor Alberto.

(54:28):
Because you can actually see in that shot he was
upside down for a while. You can see it in
his face, like the blood had rushed to his head.
He was upside down, probably for longer than I could
have done. Probably definitely for longer than I could have done.
And then leads us on neatly to our whole werewolf,
rescuing Simon and Clary once again. Also credit to Isaiah.

(54:50):
I remember that day the little fight, A cool little
moment with our parab attie as well, where we can
feel each other. I say, Alec and he grabs Clary
and Jace takes down Luke. But Isaiah, man, did he
commit to those fools? After every single one? I was like, dude,
are you okay? Like he hit the ground hard every time.
He is a real trooper. He's like, yeah, dude, I'm fine,

(55:11):
don't worry about it. Yeah, And this is another time
in the show where we all kind of developed, at
least on my part, a lot of just implicit trust
in each other because literally I was being firemen carried
by Luke. He gets kicked by you. He we did
the stunt practically, the four of us. You've kicked him.
He launched me in the air and Nat caught me.
I was literally flying through the air, caught by Matt.

(55:33):
And it wouldn't have worked if the four of us
hadn't you know, just put blind trust and faith in
each other and said, all right, we're just gonna throw
cat and hopefully we catch her. And it's you know,
that's the thing as well as like these are big
hits too. We have this discussion of like, how do
other than you know, obviously Jason's all of the shadow
Hunters are abnormally strong, but also so is Luke because

(55:55):
he's aware Wolf, he's very strong. Also, how do we
make this how do we make this pun look like
a one punch knockout with you know, the big size difference,
and Isaiah's incredibly fit and very muscular, So how do
we make that look real? And the way to do
it was to really sell it as much as we could.
We really had to go for it. And that's that
implicit trust that comes with these fight scenes is you

(56:16):
just have to trust to that person who is not
going to punch you in the face, even though they
are throwing Like I was throwing all of my weight
into that punch. If it had connected, honestly, Isaiah is
a big dude, and it probably would have broken all
the fingers in my hand. But and he wouldn't have reacted.
I got punched in the face. But you know, it's
a it's a trust thing, like you have to trust
that someone's not gonna like I have to kick the
back of his knees, which is not something you want

(56:38):
to do to someone in real life, and then I
have to hit him across the face as hard as
you can. You have to trust that those people aren't
going to hit you and not be you know, fearful
of what could potentially happen. Anyway, anyway, speaking of unpleasant trust,
there's a we finally get to learn that we can
trust Luke again. Um there's a lovely little scene where
you see and this is something else say, I wanted
to bring up the witch like we used to use

(57:00):
the witchlights all the time in season one and then
I don't know what happened to them, And it's something
from the book and we actually used the prop that
we used. They used in the movie as well. They're
these sort of glowing rocks that are imbued with Warlock
magic that glow or are they are they made of atomus?
I forget which is I think they're atomus like chunks
of atoms, the glowing element that our stones are, that

(57:21):
our swords are made of an atomus. For non book
fans or non book readers, I should say Adamus was
the sort of shadow Hunter materials, a metal that almost
looks like glass that we used to make our buildings.
We used to make a lot of our clothing, so
our clothing is protected. It's sort of like anti demon aluminium,

(57:42):
I suppose is the best way of describing it. And
we used to make our weapons and all sorts of things.
And it gets taken from the We do sort of
briefly talk about the law when we get into the
Iron Sisters and how that whole thing plays out. But yes,
that's that is what Adamus is, and if you hear
us referencing it, then that is what it is. But
these witchlights so Clari has a witch light in her
pocket inevitably, thanks Jace for tossing that at her at

(58:05):
some point, I'm sure. And we have this recurring joke
as well in the show about the opening room. There's
there's a certain room that opens doors. Clary can never
do it. And I don't know where that came from,
if it came from the books or whatever it is,
but the writers kept writing it in that Clary just
couldn't get this room down, so she couldn't get out
of places, which I find hysterical. Maybe it's me because

(58:27):
I'm directionally challenged and clumsy. I don't know. It's yeah,
you sort of had a like a Ron Weasley moment
with this one. Run. It's the Aloha mora. That's right,
ladies and gents, your boys a Harry Potter nerd. It's
not a big deal. Well, speaking of Harry Potter references,
there's one in this scene where Clary tries to point
the stella at Luke when he busts in like a one,

(58:49):
and he goes, honey, that's not how you use that thing.
But little wink to the Harry Potter fans, Little wink
to the Harry Potter fans there, So where were we?

(59:16):
Um the big Werewolf moment, Our first big sort of
John wou esque shot of our entire team, all five
of us in fighting position. Jason with his signature sword,
is He with her signature whip, Alec with his signature bow.
Simon with his signature fearful face, which disappears in sort

(59:37):
of the next two episodes somewhat because he is imbued
with new abilities. Let's just say, Clary protecting Simon as
much as you possibly can, and Chase protecting Clary. And
it's a very It's a really cool sort of quasi
iconic shot from the show that we see a lot,
this spinning camera motion where we get to see all
of these these sort of individual profiles of who these

(59:58):
characters are, these breakdowns of these characters all together as
a unit for the first time, which I think is
really cool. It was one of my favorite shots. It's
the team. The team is together, The team is finally
unified and is ready to face whenever is coming for them,
literally and figuratively. But this is a little section I
like to call tennis ball's teamwork and thunder. Oh my god,

(01:00:19):
that's right. I'd forgotten about the thunder. Oh my god.
This was the night that I started drinking coffee. I
had made it entirely through university. I was never a
coffee person before. And when you're on a set and
you're shooting outside, you have to deal with the elements
at times. And this is one where we found that
out firsthand. We were shooting in amongst all of these

(01:00:39):
metal shipping containers and there happened to be a freak
thunderstorm in Toronto. And when you're shooting and there's you know,
thunder and lightning, and it can become a dangerous circumstance.
You have to pause. What is it I think minutes
or twenty minutes? Yeah, is thirty minutes after you witness
a lightning strike, which means lightning strikes, you start the clock. Yeah,

(01:01:02):
you wait for thirty minutes. If it happens again during
those thirty minutes, you restart the clock. And was it
four hours? It was something like lightning strikes. We were
just sat waiting. It would always get to minute like
seven or two. We got so close so many times.
And I give such credit to our first A. D. Pierre,
who you know, he's sort of in charge of the

(01:01:23):
first aid is sort of in charge of running the
set and running the crew and making sure all of
the pieces are happening and everything stays in motion throughout
the day. He was so good at keeping spirits up
and keeping everyone focused and happy. And I think, didn't
we have to go back and finish the scene another
day because the sun started coming up? Correct? Yeah? We

(01:01:43):
this was our first. We used to call them Fraturday's.
I don't know if it's if it was actually a
Friday or not, but I don't remember. When you start
shooting the scene and Friday turns in Saturday and you
are still shooting the scene and there's nothing to be
done about it. You just gotta keep going. We really
only had two of these lightning thunder lightning days, and
both of those days we were stood in or around

(01:02:05):
or on giant metal conductors, like the most dangerous possible element.
There's other one is at the beginning of season two,
where we were on the top of the container ship
on the water and we could just see this thunderstorm
rolling in from across the Great Lakes, the Great Ontario Lake,
miles away, and we're like, it's fine, it's not a
big deal. An hour later, it's closer and closer and

(01:02:25):
closer and closer, and it's the same. It was just
those two days where we were stood around maybe the
most dangerous things that could possibly be stood around in
a thunderstorm, as you do. But this is another thing
that I want to give Pierre massive credit for and
also us some credit for not laughing too many times,
um a lot of times when you're on set. You know,
we've discussed green screens, and we've discussed replacing different things

(01:02:49):
in visual effects elements. When you have something that's in
the middle of your set that's not a backdrop, they
will paint it in in post production with a brilliant
v effects team, but we all have to be looking
at the same spot. So in order to get all
of the actors and people in the scene to be
looking at wherever they're going to paint it in, they'll
often put a tennis ball on the end of a

(01:03:10):
broom handle or some long stick of sorts and sort
of waved around in the air, so all of our
eyes have the same thing to track, and in this case,
our lovely first a DP here because there are several
werewolves all over in this battle, running around, going and
now they're over here, and now they're over here with
the tennis ball in the end of a pool, and
it took everything in us not to laugh as he

(01:03:32):
was sort of painting this where we'll fight show puppet
show for us, puppet show. It's a puppet show, absolute
ludicrous and we there is actually a cool behind the
scene shot of when were the the common Wall kind
of demons. They were called the like worm creatures Create teen.

(01:03:53):
Those were the alien Dravic demons. Yeah, so they That
was a man in a suit holding two tennis balls
at the at the time, and you know, it's one
of those weird things that's on set. You know, you
guys get to see the finished picture. You don't get
to see a man in a morph suit or a
spandex suit holding tennis balls coming out you're making noises,

(01:04:15):
which is a very odd experience. I'm sure we have
footage of it somewhere that we should try and share
because it is a ludicrous thing to try and to
try and and then also you know, heighten mistakes and
like everyone's going to die. But this guy is running
around with the tennis ball is a very odd position
to be in. And when you're trying to remain some
sort of modicum of fear or that assery or something

(01:04:38):
in a scene and you're staring down a tennis ball. It, um, yeah,
gets a bit simply get you tennis ball, especially at
four in the morning when you've been up all night
trying to count thunder strates. It just this was one
of the first times where we all got the sillies,
and I think we all bonded really as a cast,
because your this is what I love about night shoots
to any sort of mask that anybody where's it work.

(01:05:00):
Anything that someone tries to present themselves as pretty much
falls away after two am, when you're all on set
and you're all tired, and it it becomes such a
lovely experience because we get to see each other at
our best and our worst at the beginning and the
end of our day, and we get to be there
for each other. And it really brought us closer together
as a cast and and kind of started off our

(01:05:21):
journey in a great way. Yeah, And we ended up
with sort of like routines. You know, we knew these
days are going to be long days when we started them.
You know, you know that you're starting in the studio.
We're starting with daylight and then we're going to be
shooting until four or five, six seven in the morning.
And Matt and I especially, we had one where we
would look at each other at one point in the

(01:05:42):
day and be like, is it rocket fuel time? Should
we go and have some rocket fuel? And Matt or
I would say no, it's not time yet, or like
hell yeah, it is time. And rocket fuel for us
is not recommended because it cannot be good for your heart.
But it's a double espresso with honey and then it's
hopped up with Americano coffee. It is like more caffeine

(01:06:05):
than any human being should ever put in their body.
But kept us going, you know, for these days where
we had no choice but like we have to, we
have to power through this um and we did. We
ended up with these sort of routines of like right cool,
like cats sleeping in her chair trying to grab her
a coffee, you know, at times said we've got it,
We've got more stuff to do yet, And this was yeah,

(01:06:26):
as Cat says, this was sort of our first foray
into like this is going to be our lives for
a little while. This is going to be sort of
the routine, and even as you know, many obstacles got
on our way that night, it still ended up being
I still have fond memories of that night and it's
still it was still fun, and it was so encouraging
even that early on that we found a way through

(01:06:48):
it as a team, both on and off screen, and
to sort of trust each other and trust these instincts
in the same way that we see. And I didn't
notice how kind of pivotal this scene was until I
rewatched it. This is one of first scenes where as
again often happens at the end of these episodes, these
characters are confronted with choices, but they all begin to
choose to trust each other. Clari is trusting her instincts

(01:07:10):
and trusting Luke, telling Jason, no, it's okay, that's my dad.
I trust him. Jace is putting his trust in Clary
for one of the first times and going, Okay, she's
been in this world long enough, We've taught her enough.
Let's see where this goes. Simon is putting his trust
in the Shadow Hunters to to protect Clary and protect Luke,
and all of them are putting their trust in Magnus

(01:07:32):
because I think it is Jace that goes. We have
to get him to Magnus right because Luke Luke fights
the pack leader and ends up killing THEO to become
the leader of the pack. We see all the wolves
bow down to Luke. As you know in in the
werewolf tradition, if you due old pack leader and are successful,
you are now the leader of the pack. Insert song here,

(01:07:56):
I mean yeah. And then which which takes us to
the end of this episode, which, like you say, is
another choice. This time Jason's choice the correct that not
the correct thing. The protocol would be to take look
back to the institute, I believe, which is Alex's instinct,
and Jase goes against that, which is our first real
rocky moment for the parabit I like the first time

(01:08:18):
they really separate and choose different paths. Um, We'll end
this episode with this question and credit to which one
of our lovely production team put this in, because this
is a great question and I'm very excited to answer it.
What are the parabit I? Where where have they come from? Historically?
Where did we base them in? Has have there been

(01:08:40):
any other historical, historical, historical, okay, historical parabitized is what
I was trying to say, Cat you, I'm going to
talk a little about where parabiti came from and what
we developed into it. Um, why don't you have a
think about if there are any other historical all historical
parabities while I'm talking about this. So we actually briefly

(01:09:02):
mentioned in another episode soul mates and where the concept
of soulmates come from in sort of Greek law, Greek anthology,
and the running theory that we sort of played with
with this was soul mates is a theory that came
from Zeus creating human beings. Zeus, the god of all God's,
created human beings with two heads, forearms, and four legs

(01:09:25):
and was terrified of how powerful these creatures were become,
so he split them all in half and sent them
off into different areas of the world, leaving two people
with the same soul with that were connected with one soul.
And that story, wherever it came from, is where we
sort of developed the initial parabatie bond from these two
people who were intrinsically connected in their souls, in the

(01:09:48):
deepest part of them that they were, they were a
part of each other. And the more we get into
our story. Both Alec and Jace via the show get
to sort of explore what Parabatie is and how important
is and then also Matt and I get to explore
that as well, which was really good fun. What can
we do? What can't we do? Where is the relationship?
And we get to see more and more how important

(01:10:08):
they are to each other, especially through the first sort
of half of season two, really get to focus on that,
which was wonderful. Um And I think when you say,
you know, the question here that's positive to me is
if they are a real thing? And I wonder if
that's even a question necessarily. I mean, of course it's
a question. I suppose. The question I'm gonna answer is

(01:10:31):
do you believe that they are a real thing? That's
the question I'm going to answer, And I absolutely do.
I absolutely do. I know that I have in my
life the equivalent of parabat I in a few of
my relationships. You know, we spoke about my relationship with
Alberto before, who can sense when I'm struggling, and we'll
deal with that. I have a similar rapport with Matt

(01:10:52):
in a lot of ways now as one of my
best friends. Who knows when something's up, or knows when
it's time to step in or and ice versa. You know,
help each other with whatever, even if it's you know
as silly as is it time for rocket fuel on set,
you know sort of sense that from each other. So
I absolutely think parabita is a real thing. I just

(01:11:12):
think different cultures over the years have had different names
for it and a thing from soulmates to best friends
to the more gen z BFFs. You know, it's I
don't see too much of a difference between whatever you
want to call it and the parabitie relationship. And it's
it's very interesting because that does come into play in
the show because and more so even in the books

(01:11:35):
beyond the ones that we explore, there's the situation where
this kind of gets delved into more with Emma Carstairs.
But parabitae are not allowed to be romantically involved, and
that's something that you know, it's it's a situation because
you're in battle, and because you are fighting with each
other but fighting alongside each other, you need to have
a separation between the romance and the partnership. But I think,

(01:11:56):
as you said, it's it becomes a very intimate relationship
because it is on a metaphysical level, and those lines
can be blurred. Um. I'm I have been looking and
thinking about a few famous duos, and I have a
couple to propose to you that could be para interest
some some fictional, some not. I think Lewis and Clark
had to have been duo, having explored the majority of

(01:12:19):
the United States together. Rogers and Hammerstein, perhaps we're para.
Having written a bunch of musicals. Bert and Ernie from
Sesame Street I think are parabite. I mean they've got
to be right. Potentially Elmo and Big Bird. I'm not
really sure on that one. Sunny and Share. Maybe Sunny
and Share, Soimon and Golf Uncle ye Abbott and Costello.

(01:12:43):
We're getting into entertainment industry duos. Thelma and Louise could
have also been very good one. But I'm trying to
think of other famous historical duos that existed. What about
like Caesar and Brutus. I mean maybe they Okay, they
that could be an example of more of a um
spoiler alert. Luke and Valentine parabitize situation where one betrays

(01:13:08):
the other. Yeah, fascinating, how fun? Well you know what
another fun thing for you guys, if you're if you're listening,
tweet us people that you think historically we're parabiti or
whether fictional or fact or alive or dead. You tell
us if you think there have been examples of the
parabitie relationship historically pre the show or after the show.

(01:13:31):
You let us know if it's you know, it could
be reality TV stars, it could be anything. You let
us know if you think that they're they're out there
and will judge quizzically your responses past, present, and yet
to come, the present yet to come? Do you have
parabitizer there but yeah, yet to come? As an interesting one,
do you think there are relationships out there that have

(01:13:52):
the legs to become a parabitie relationship? That's interesting? Let
us know, let us know. Um, And with that, I
think we've neatly come to the end of rewatch of
episode five. Movesh you to go and we will see
where we get. Let in episode six. There's so much
coming in episode six I rewatched it. There's so much information.
Not only do we get we get some flashbacks, we

(01:14:13):
get to see parents. Okay, so let me tease you
with this, dumb We get story time with Magnus. We
get to see Harry making potions for the first time,
which is wonderful. We get to see something that I
didn't get to be there on set for but had
so much joy watching you and Alberto do your first

(01:14:34):
Simon Jason mission and do your first uh, you know,
the first time you two were paired off alone for
a few scenes and got to see you. Can see you,
I think, because I know you both so well. I
can see the two of you bonding as people well
well as these scenes go on, and that's such a joy.
But also seeing these characters in the same way that
we saw Alecan Clary in episode five, kind of battle

(01:14:58):
and bond and and not be able to resist, kind
of teaching each other certain things and connecting. You see
that with Simon and Jason this next episode, and a
lot of Harry's little magnus isms that became so iconic
in the future come up again in this episode. There's
a big reveal both of a power and of a

(01:15:18):
new character. At the end of episode six, Huh, I'm
gonna have to go and rewatch it. The lovely Isaiah
Mustafa himself explains it all to you. Interesting. Well, that's
that's the rest of my day sorted. I'm gonna go
and rewatch that. Thank you so much everyone for listening
and for watching. Thank you for being our fans and

(01:15:39):
our friends, and take care. Oh one last thing before
we go. Make sure to like and subscribe wherever you
get your podcasts. And if you've been enjoying listening, how
about leave us a review too. Return to the Shadows
is hosted an executive produced by me Domin Sherwood and

(01:16:00):
Katherine McNamara. Our executive producer is Lingley. Our senior producers
are Liz Hayes and Diego Tapia, and our producers are
Hannah Harris and Kristin m Original music by Alex Kinsey,
performed by Alex Kinsey and Katherine McNamara, and the episode
was mixed by Seth Alansky.