S2E3 - Parabatai Lost

Kat and Dom turn tomatoes into clamato juice as they walk us through the episode that made the world fall in love with the parabatai bond. They dive into everything from the various ways the show turned Toronto into NYC, the return of Dom’s least favorite clothing item, the start of the #poorraj movement, and why falling asleep involves acting… even for non-actors!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:34):
Catherine. How are you? It's good to see. How are you, Dominic, Jesus, great, fantastic.
I don't think I've ever actually called you Dominic. I
know it's weird, isn't it. It's weird in trouble when
I get called Dominic. Yeah, well, you're not in trouble today.
But Jason is clearly Jason's poor Jasons. This is a slow,
steady decline into a whole Like I forgot what happened

(00:57):
in episode four, and then I was just reading the
notes on it, and I'm like, that's right. There's a
bad episode for me. It's rough. Night before is a
bad episode for everyone. Yeah, yeah, yeah, um, and three
is not great for me the or Alec bless him
or Magnus bless him, his poor heart. Anyway, we'll get
into that. Stop rushing me. Goodness gracious, So today, Tom,
we are rewatching season two episode three, parabt I lost.

(01:21):
The original air date was January Seen, written by the
lovely Peter Binswanger, who we just adore, and directed by
the also lovely Gregory Smith, who we really really enjoyed
having on the who I also worked with again in
the Arrow Verse. Oddly enough, he bounces, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
I worked at him on Arrow A couple of years later.

(01:42):
I was like, hey, it's nice. It's nice when you
get to run into people again. But this episode, as
one may know, is starring myself as Clarie Fray, You
dum As, Jays Wlan, Alberta Rozuende, Matthew Didario, emarad Tobia
Asama Stafa, Harry Sham Jr. With guest stars Alan and Sprang,
Alicia Wainwright in her first series Welcome, Alicia Woo, Christina Cox,

(02:07):
David castro A, Maxim Roy, Next Segar and Stephanie Bennett.
All the hits tell us, Oh my goodness. Let me
tell you, god, I forgot about this episode. There's so
much just getting my ass kicked, and I'm so looking
forward to it the time. The time is running out
for Jason. Already cut off from the Institute and his friends,

(02:29):
Jason finds his situation worsening when he becomes the target
for the New York Wolfpack, who believed Jason to be
a killer and don't forget about Older Tree and the
shadow Hunters, who continue their own hunt for Jason. With
Ja's becoming the most wanted man in New York. Can
his friends find him before everyone else does? There was
a lot of jas's in that sentence. I don't want
to monopolize this episode, although do I know? I would

(02:52):
never um. Meanwhile, Simon is on a search of his
own as Raphael puts pressure on him to find Camille.
Oh my goodness, so much, so much, so much that
we're in for I'm so excited so much. I am
as well. We also get to meet baby Jason, baby
Alec in this one. Yeah, oh yeah, we should get
all those folks, baby Jay's baby Alec and teenage Jay's
teenage Alic, teenage Isabel. Oh that's right, Yeah, they're all

(03:16):
in it as well. Yeah, we should try and get
them because they were all fantastic and poor baby and
teenage Jays had to wear a single brown contact lens,
which I can tell you from experiences wildly uncomfortable. So
credit to you guys for being so amazing. Did they
both have blue eyes? Naturally? And then yes? I believe
so yeah nice? See, yeah for just this one? Wait

(03:37):
is that one? I don't know why I'm looking into
the distance like somehow I'm gonna be able to see
the color of my own eyes. I don't know. I
don't know what's happening. Oh well, although that's not uncommon
on TV shows. I know there's several shows that folks
have to wear contact even on Arrow. Um Ben Lewis,
who played my brother, I believe he had to wear
blue contacts because the kid who played the youngers of

(03:59):
him for the several seasons of Arrow, who was Anna
hopkins son. By the way, on that show, it's another
weird Arrow son. Yeah, Anna Hopkins plays my son. She
played this kid played Anna Anna Hopkins son. I see.
I was like, how much happens between fishing. Sure she

(04:22):
had a corgy, but not children. I'm pretty sure. No
no No played her son, her fictional so um the
ad old version of Anna Hopkins fictional son and Arrow
also had to wear contacts. It's a long, convoluted genealogy,
you know, I see it. I get it. I'm so
excited to get Anna on the show. But that's a
that's another conversation for another day. We gotta get the

(04:42):
season three first, come on. I know, I just watched
this YouTube thing. I was doing my research about this
episode and it popped up and it was like, shout
out into season four, and I was like, I don't
think so, because nobody's asked me about that, So I
don't think so. But I watched it and it was
like a recap and worst season four, mic go and whatever, um,
And then it reminded me of all this stuff we
didn't see season three, because it's it all seems like
such a long time ago now, and especially doing a recap,

(05:05):
I'm hyper aware of the stuff we did in season
one because we just run through it or now starting
to get more aware of season two. But I completely
forgotten about season three and even the fact that we
made it season three. Wow, how special? Any who HUNI
Filming began on you Are. Filming began on August and
wrapped on September t two thousand, sixteen sixteen. You had

(05:29):
your mind Jason was originally going to be hiding out
in a college in this episode. I didn't know that.
Where did that information come from? I didn't know that
I was originally hiding out in college. Interesting, Maybe it's
a book thing, Maybe maybe it's a I don't know.
You want to weigh in there? Do you know where
this came from? I don't think we've ever had our
producers voices actually on the podcast. Yet right to our

(05:53):
amazing producing team, I'm actually ashamed of myself that we've
done twenty plus episodes and we haven't said hello to
our incredible are hiding from do all of the work?
Is the reality? No, you don't want to say, I
don't want to come out of the shadows. That's okay.
They're hiding at the shadows. They're glamored. It turns out
our producers are not being recorded. So even we just

(06:14):
had a little conversation that canna sound very strange because
it sounds like we're talking to nobody, But we had
a conversation and basically they said they really dislike cat
and refused to be on voice on the show. Even
deny it, sure absolutely not. They they are going to

(06:34):
be our voiceless partners in this. But I promise you
that they do all the work, make us a little fantastic.
So thank you, as always guys for that. Yet I
was talking for a long time. Just then I'm gonna
have a sip of my not beer and you talk
about you're not beer beer. Absolutely well, look you're I'm
in Santa Fe. It's appropriate beer time for you. I'm

(06:54):
drinking tea because it's seven. It's eight in the morning here,
so you know, we're doing our thing and you who, uh,
there's a few book things that I really enjoy. I
love something And I don't know if we get to
see much of this in the third season because Luke
kind of steps away from the Police Force, but in
season two we get to see a lot of this
crossover of police force and werewolf head of Pack and

(07:17):
shadow Hunter work. You really get to see how this
world works behind the scenes. Um, and unfortunately we have
you know, Gretel has an unfortunate fate. In the beginning
of this episode, we get to see the werewolf funeral
practices just a little bit. You get to see the
first the first glimmer of them. We see more later
on in season three. Um, we we're not talking about

(07:38):
it again. I refuse to acknowledge it. But we do
get to see Luke put Gretel to rest with the
Batti Belicoci, which is the equivalent to the aviat Valle
in the shadow Hunters world. We get to see a
lot of Latin in this episode. We do say Lucas
speak in Latin. Wasn't the translation here somewhere something about
warriors like lay my warriors rest or something. Yeah, I

(08:00):
feel like I just read this somewhere. Oh that's right,
I forgot. It was the motto of the praetor Lupus.
The Prator Lupus is something we didn't really get into
too much in the series. And it's so unfortunate because
in the books it's got such a cool did you
ever anyway in the books that has a really cool mythology,
and it's it's sort of like the Jedi of the
Shadow World. We see them like right at the end,

(08:21):
right like right at the end of season three, we
see them pop out. It's all coming back to me.
Now we don't talk about season three though yet. That
was a trash Where is the translation for this? I
just read it somewhere, didn't I we'll find it while
you're looking for that. Let's get into the beginnings of
this episode. Um, you know at the so the end
of last week's episode, we dot tore through the wards

(08:45):
on Valentine's ship and we ran and jumped over the edge.
Or rather, yeah, we didn't do it. They didn't let us.
In fact, it's very funny. I just had a similar
situation on set this week where there was water and
jumping and they didn't let us do it again, and
I was so frustrated. Water in Santa Fe, I mean

(09:06):
there's ponds. I thought it was all like desert find
water somewhere. I mean, it's a lot of dessert. But
it's so green this year. There must have been a
ton of rain over the winter because it's inordinately green here.
It's definitely different than the pilot. But hey, sure the
Google translation for BT Belicosi is not correct. Well, maybe

(09:30):
it is correct, and we just stretched it. This just
says happy Warriors, And I don't think that was the case.
I don't think that's something aware happy Warriors. It's around.
I don't think that's the case. So I think we
did something else. I'm sure it is um all right.
So we started this episode with babies do the little babies?

(09:53):
Oh my god. These guys were awesome. These guys were
so good and they we talked about this all the
time with with guest stars coming in and having just
entirely immersed themselves in this world that has existed before them,
and especially when we get to season two, it's existed
before them for a year or so and it's been
successful enough to bring it back for a season two.
So there's a lot of pressure coming in. And these

(10:14):
guys are like twelve thirteen years old and they had
to come in with that same mindset. And not only that,
but I don't know about you can't necessarily, but for
for me and my experience playing someone who's existed, like
I did a movie where I played Jagger and there
was Mick Jagger, and there was a huge amount of
pressure to get everything right because it's already happened. It's
there isn't any creative like nuance to it. It's like this,

(10:39):
this has done a certain way, and these guys really
threw themselves into it. And I remember him talking to
me and wanting to get into Jason's mindset, and I
thought that was the coolest thing, especially for a young actor.
So these guys had had the right mindset to do
very well in this in this industry, and I hope
they do. Anyway, we see Jason Alec Bond for the

(10:59):
first time, and we see them, we see them sort
of meld for the first time. We get to see
a tiny little bit of of Jason's little traumatic past,
just tiny bit. Yeah. One thing, I think it's really
interesting just about this first scene. Um, you know, we
are training room. This set, which is used so much
in this episode, was still really new, and I remember that,

(11:21):
you know, we were still kind of breaking it and
these kids got to break it in for us basically,
you know, we get to every time, and all of
these sets were so new. These bedrooms sat you might
have been the second thing that was shot there. You guys,
you and m shot your fight scene there and then
and then it was this and it might have been
the second thing we ever shot there. I think so well.
And then even this next scene with Magnus and Alec

(11:42):
and Isabelle, this was one of the first times we
did to see alex bedroom. And this is the first
kind of you know, we had the in season one.
The bedrooms were the upper level of the It was
our training room basically the original training room that had
been transformed converted whatever word you want to use, um
into the bedrooms. And now we actually had these hall

(12:03):
ways to explore. And I remember you sued always get lost,
even though it was like a whole way and a half. Yeah,
well it wasn't though it was a whole it was
a whole like by the end of season two, it
was a whole functioning institute like it was there was
from You could literally walk from the entrance all the
way through past everyone's bedrooms. The bedrooms were that corridor
on the right hand side, and you could walk out

(12:23):
to the left hand side and Older Trees office or
the head of the Institute's office, whoever it was, was
there with the balcony, and then you could keep walking
through to sort of the outside area. Like it was
all a functioning space at that point and they could
use it however they wanted, and that was really cool.
And I don't know if we'd quite reached that stage yet,
but by the end of season two we had a
fully functioning institute. I know at that point we had

(12:46):
two rooms. After we had the two rooms in a hallway.
We had one room that was Alex bedroom and Alder
Trees office, and then another room that was Clary's bedroom
because we were in close bedroom a lot in the
first part of this season, so they just kind of
left it set up. Let's talk about Look, so we've
got Madness trying to bring Alec back from his parapetite,

(13:06):
the brink of death. Yeah, the brink of death. You
know happened. The brink of death. As as we often
are in this UM format, I forget that because this
is one of my absolute favorite episodes that we did,
especially that last scene, and Greg did such a good
job directing it was. I think we only did it
two times really because it was really quite harrowing to do.

(13:27):
I think we already did two or three times. And
Greg is a really cool like sort of direction. It's
not even a direction, it's a really cool it's a
cool connection to get with your director when they come
in and go, that was on the money. Let's just
do it again. Let's just do another one of those,
and like, amazing, dude, that's great. I love that. And
it's not that we're necessarily adverse to taking these notes necessarily,

(13:49):
but just sort of is like that scene in in
the mid season finale of season two. It's one of
those things where you like, we checked the boxes there,
like everyone knows they did a good job, and like, great, cool,
everyone's happy. We just do it one more time. We
get it in the back. Yeah. But by this point too,
we were so kind of in tune with these characters
and these character relationships, and we were I think we

(14:09):
were just starting to really hit our stride with the
world and the family of the characters, and it was
nice to see directors come in and people like Greg
come in. Sally Whitfield was another one who just dove
in and understood the world from day dot and trusted us.
And it became this kind of partnership with these new directors.

(14:30):
As we got more comfortable owning these characters, these directors
would come in, recognize that and then play with us
and it became such a cool given take and it
really taught me a lot about you know, this, this
format of of what we do. Yeah, definitely. I was
actually very sad that we didn't get Greg back at
any point, but obviously he's a busy man. Um Sally

(14:50):
we were very fortunate to get back a few times,
I think, and we have Sally direct four episodes, three
or four episodes and Sally everything like that. Yeah, I
know I've been trying to trying to steal her over here,
but she's a busy woman too. They're all busy, I'm sure,
good at what they do, and they're appreciated in their field.
Of course, that's the best problem to have. Back to

(15:29):
the story, Alex dying, Magnus is trying to help. That's
a very a very lucid way of saying it, but
that's basically exactly what's happening. Um. And then my least
favorite shot, arguably that we ever did on the show.
Do you want to tell us a little bit about
the dreaded this so much going on? Let's start with
the sweater. The sweater was horrendous, and I was promised

(15:51):
that I would only wear it for one episode that
it turned out to be a lie. I wear it
for like three or four episodes. Absolutely hated the thing.
It was super richy when you put blood on it,
it got sticky. When you put it in water, the
whole thing like extended somehow. So, like there's the scene
that's coming up now where I come out of the water.
You'll see that one of my sleeves is like three
sizes too long. All of a sudden, it's just because

(16:11):
you added water to it and expanded like the fucking
sea monkeys or some ship. I don't know how it happened,
but that's this is what happened here. And then on
top of all of that, it is firstly, in the morning,
the water is freezing ass cold, and I don't care
about being in the water at all, but it's dirty,
it's like full of stuff. Before each take, I would
sort of try and push it all to the sides.
They wanted me to wake up underwater because the cameras

(16:35):
underwater with me, which ends up being on screen for
a blink of an eye. But I remember sort of
being on my hands and knees being like, yeah, we're
ready because the tide's gonna change and we're ready. Okay, great,
And I would just sort of move as much ship
to one side as I can and put myself under
water and then wake up and do this whole thing.
This isn't fun. To make it look like you're like
you've been underwater, like you're choking. You kind of have

(16:57):
to choke, like you have to put the weight to
the back of your throat and make it feel like
you're actually sort of coughing up water. Are You actually
do an amazing job of this. In season two when
we go to address the first are frozen, freezing cold,
you do an amazing job of this. I remember I
remember watching you drink and send it to the back
of your throat and then cough it back up. And

(17:18):
it was very very, very um accurate depiction of what
happens here is very good. But it's not comfortable. It's
not a comfortable thing to do, is what I'm saying. Anyway.
But we had a great medic, so we can trust
and Drew are seth medic to save us. Always trust
and Drew always. Um. Anyway, Jason wakes up in the water.
He's not feeling so good, and he finds dead quit

(17:40):
at all. Although there's something I don't something I love
about this is his first thought as Stelle. His second
thought is Clary, and then he figures it, and then
he kind of comes to and figures it out. It's
it's it's such a very jace. It's such a great
marrying of very much. It happens again later, Actually it
happens again when he get on the phone to Izzy.

(18:00):
I noticed the exact same thing. Um. And then this jogger,
some psycho jogger who's jogging at seven o'clock in the
morning by the lake, is wrong with you, Lady's nobody
else on this beach. Come on, I mean, I used
to jog at seven am by the lake in Toronto,
and I think you're a psycho for it because it's insane.
It's an insane thing to do. But why does she
think you killed her? Why doesn't she think you saved her?

(18:22):
This is my thing. She immediately goes like, oh my god,
he's a serial killer. I don't get that. There's been
like a demonic killer on the loose in New York
or whatever. And maybe she's on edge, but you can happen.
Oh yeah, that has happened. Yeah, you're right, you're right,
you right. Um. What I didn't understand is how can
she see me? Well, you don't have your celle, you
don't know about your other thing yet and established the

(18:47):
golden eye thing yet maybe yeah, no, no, no, no,
that's yeah, that's a way the way. Yeah. I think
you're glamoured actively Okay. Yeah. So you see like a bloodied,
like wet tattooed man cradling a dead lady's body, you're
gonna start thinking some ship. I get it. I understand that.
I think my response would be the same, like a man,
I don't know what's going on here. But you saying no,

(19:09):
it's not what you think is not an appropriate rest
it's not enough for me to be like, okay, fair enough,
I'll continue with my job. That's I'm gonna call the cops.
What's going to happen there? Even that, I don't know
why Jason's response was like, oh yeah, you should absolutely
call the cops. That's going to end up back with
Luke and I'm gonna end up back with my people.
Like that was the whole sort of aim with jumping

(19:29):
off his But I don't really know what the issue
with that is. There you go, it adds to the drama.
Waterlogged brain. You know, you hit your head, you straight
I get it. But this next shot was one of
my I've seen. You know how much are the Shadow
family is to give things. There are several moments where
Clary storms into the institute in various states of distress,

(19:52):
and this one is always gift. And I really, I
just I got a huge kick out of the fact
that she has no shoes. She's looks like a drowned
rat and her face, by the way, no shoes or socks.
At some point in the in the water swimming through
the Hudson back to the Bay of New York, you
figured that not only the boots were slowing you down.

(20:13):
But also these Adidas ankle socks. That's enough of you,
and off they went food for fishes. I love that
you think I was cool enough to wear Adidas ankle
socks under my boots. I was always in unicorn socks
or some kind of animal sillyness. We also get to
see our first example of and I want this to
end up like as a as a hashtag that runs

(20:35):
through because it happened so often. We get our first
like poor ray Ray's just trying to do his job. Man,
sorry Raj Raymond whom Raymond plays rush Yeah, poor twice
in this episode. In this episode he gets He gets

(20:56):
a lot of happening to him in a lot of
He has a lot of stuff trying to him in
this episode because he he gets you know, you know,
there's there's there are events and and I think Stephanie
and he have a heart to heart as it were
later in the day. I was thinking about the Magnus

(21:16):
rage deal heart later in the episode, I see, I see, yeah,
I I get it. But you know, we also have
I love that Clary is finally seeing through Joscelyn's kind
of were It's a manipulation like it's very very it's
not quite this bad. But what's her name? Gypsy the

(21:38):
character that Joey played that whole thing rocket. It's an
amazing show if you should if you haven't seen it, um,
but yeah, it is. And actually Magnus calls her out
on it later on, because it's she is manipulating the
people around her to just sort of fit into this
highly filtered world that she's existed for herself. And that's
just not how it works. You can't, you can't. Really.

(22:00):
We actually touched on it a little, and not a little,
we touched it quite a lot. In Partner Track, we
touch on people dealing with problems in a very filtered way,
in a very like well, if this doesn't affect me,
then what's the issue? This is how it is, and
that's not the case. The world and and society in
general is a success because we sort of, whether it's

(22:22):
conscious or unconscious, look out for each other. However it is,
whether it's you know, anyway, that's enough existentialism from me.
Evidently have had too much beer. But's case, it's slightly understandable.
You know, she was manipulated by Valentine for so long
and then just had to survive and protect Clary. So
she's had to shut herself off to thinking about anyone
but her and keep alive, keep you safe. I think,

(22:45):
I guess what I'm saying is when you're trying to
protect someone on your own, but also rely on other
people for that. So Magnus, the other shadow unters whatever,
she's sort of relied on these people to come in.
It's unfair to rely on those people but entirely negate
their opinion on what is within this world. Right, Like,

(23:07):
if it's someone who doesn't understand the world, then fair enough.
Like she's not going to a mundane therapist and being
like what do you think and she's like, you're insane,
You're going to a fucking looney bin. That fair enough.
I understand that. But Magnus is a very experienced man,
and he understands this world and understands some of the choices.
And I think that's where the manipulation comes. That's why
I would use the word manipulation, because manipulating someone in

(23:30):
my head, very often, more often than not, is very selfish,
and in this case, this seems it was. It was
selflessness mask gerading as selfishness because she could have used
these sources right, well, manipulates Alec, which is why he's
in the situation he's in right now. It's it's it
compounds in many ways. But she's going to get hers

(23:53):
in a couple of episodes. Not well, that's that's the
next episode. I do um you know. So we have Clarion,
Jocelyn butting Heads and Alder Tree and Jocelyn apparently on
the same side. This is a badass shot. It's right
after the after the credits. I'm just watching it now.
I have my iPad up here. This like the symmetry

(24:15):
of you coming in you've got no shoes, and poor
Raj like, hey let me help, and you're like, fuck
you get away from me. That's straight in. So good,
so good. Also, the makeup team, I noticed this earlier.
The makeup team, especially the one in your chin, the
scratch slash bruise, is so good, like so good. I
was actually like, I rewatched this episode and I was like,

(24:36):
did she fall out a trader again? Because that's what
it looks like. It looks that good. Well, this is
when we had Randy Dardlin as our head of makeup,
so he was able to just do because he had
been our special effects makeup season one and he came
in and just was able to, you know, beat us up,
which was amazing. We had to we had to fight
for that too, because this was a new thing for
free Form. It was a new sort of step for

(24:58):
them to allow characters to look bloody or destroyed or
you know, disheveled in any way, which I still stand.
I think that's the best. Characters look always like a
little beaten up, I think is the coolest you ever look,
especially in well not especially only in like an action
based show or movie. I think that's the coolest you

(25:19):
look like. The coolest I think Tom Cruise looks is
when I think he's gonna lose, you know what I mean,
Like right on that precipice, I know he's not it's
Tom Cruise, Like, I know he's not gonna he's not
gonna not complete this impossible mission, of course, but the
best ones are the ones where I'm like, I don't know, Yeah,
I don't know. And that's when I think we look
the coolest in this as well as when you're like
I don't know, I don't know. If you I don't know, yeah,

(25:42):
we're usually also damp. Whenever we're the most beat up,
we're always damp. They love to throw in one more
than I wanted to be, honestly wet. Anyway, we gotta
we gotta start through this. I'm aware that it's me
digressive basin Simon, Simon a mom, Alberto and Christina always

(26:02):
break my heart. Oh my god, because I know what's coming.
I know what's going to happen, and so many of
know what's going to happen that one season three, it's
season three, Oh it is, You're right, it is. So
I'm devastated, absolutely devastates horses Sherwood nor more words for me,
thank you. But but we get to see him in

(26:24):
the boat base and we get to see him. You know,
I love seeing Simon take ownership of his vampire nous
and really become you know, for lack of a better word,
kind of the the Peter Parker of our world. And
he really, you know, he gets he sticks the landing,
and he's you know, he's really starting to it's becoming
a part of who he is, and he's owning it
and it's making the best of a bad situation. But

(26:47):
you know, it's turning tomatoes into into platter juice, right,
I don't know. I was trying to turn commegrant at
juice into vampire. Oh I see, I see, okay, I
see you see what you were trying to do. That
really bad metaphor you went. You went a ways away
from what I was thinking. But that you know what,
This is why we love you, cat because sometimes you're
a fucking idiot. You're one of the smartest idiots of

(27:09):
them my entire life, and that's great. I'm just a idiot.
I don't have the smarts I try. Sometimes my brain
makes too many leaps that I can't explain anyway, get
it um. Now we're back on the beach and we
get the lovely Biati Belicosi moment um. I love how
Luke or how Isaiah plays this character because he has

(27:31):
such a commanding authority, but also this sort of care
and this tenderness with his pack that is, to me,
exemplifies what the werewolves are. You know, they are a family,
and they are there's this sort of an animalistic side
on both aspects, both the heart and the soft. They
have this undying kind of love and care and loyalty

(27:52):
to each other, but they're also hard. It's it it's
almost akin to the laws hard, but it's the law
when it comes to the Shadow Hunters, but it's you know,
the laws of nature as it were for them. Totally,
it's instinctual. Yeah, I I completely agree. And we get Joel,
who we love, and we had Joel um and now
we get the moment that you mentioned earlier where Jocelyn
calls Magnus calls Jocelyn out, and you know, I think

(28:17):
I love that they continue to develop the quote unquote
grown ups on the show as well. And and they're flawed,
they're not perfect. The parents are not without faults of
their own. The parents are not without you know, we
see us with Maris especially, and I mean really with Valentine,
he's kind of yeas a great know, all of the

(28:41):
parents kind of stuck. I don't think there's a parent
that it's just like, yeah, you did it, you did
a great job. That's great, because that doesn't makepend in
fantasy a lot. Yeah, exactly, although Magnus arguably as a parent, isn't.
He's probably the best parent, even though he's not really
a parent. Yeah, with you know, Madzie, and even in
the second time he talks about his his the downloads
he takes in, or his children, the Rafael's and the

(29:03):
Simons and the you know, of the world fair enough,
and he does do a very good job. You're right.
And then next we have one of my favorite scenes
because it was the first one I really got to
be one on one with Nick Sagar, whom we he's
so gloriously manipulative and evil and wonderful in this, but
we get to see Alder Treaty, who I don't understand.

(29:27):
I always wondered if from alder Treats side of things,
if recording these interviews was actually legitimate in that he
was turning these tapes into the Clave, or it was
just a way for him to create an atmosphere that
seemed official but was really manipulative. See this is why
I don't really necessarily think he's a bad guy. I

(29:48):
think he just is another one. Like he's that sort
of integer period between like us as the shadow Wunters,
Jace Clary Alec is he the new breed of shadow Unters,
and then like Mariss, Jocelyn, Robert, those guys the old
breed of shadow Hunters. He's that like interim where he's
like there are still rules, Like there are rules that

(30:08):
we follow in those rules are in place for a reason. Um,
And that's why I don't really think that he's a
bad guy. And actually, very often I think that we're
just useless shadow Hunters because we don't follow the rules
and get into trouble all the time. Constantly we get
into trouble. But then it's this existential question of you know,
you have the law which is black and white and

(30:29):
it is meant to protect, but often the situations that
the shadow Hunters end up in the field are never
black and white, and so you can't apply these beliefs
of the Clave to what the shadow Hunters are doing. Also,
I love that in this scene you have clearlyus sort
of mundane Spidey senses kicking in and going, I don't
represent rust this guy. So I'm not going to be
under present, honest, and I'm going to play the dumb

(30:49):
half shadow Hunter and make a story here. Also, I
don't know if it was me or wardrobe or fashion
in ten, but I went through a real choker phase
at the beginning this season. It makes me laugh soon
it's so funny. It's so like early two thousand's. It's
such an interesting I remember walking on set and being like,
that's such a that's such a weird fucking choice right now,

(31:12):
that's awesome. So I think there were a lot of
there's a lot of book references that because the books
came out in like two thousand seven, so there's a
lot of references in the books when it comes to
fashion and things like that to that world. And I
think I was just in that headspace, um, and there
was a big resurgence of early two thousand stuff in
chokers were like clical. Fashion is so cyclical. Like I

(31:33):
just spoke with a stylist for the Partner Track sort
of screening event that we're doing, and so much of
it is like they were like, do you like pocket watches?
And I was like, like from the twenties, Hell yeah,
I like pocket watches. That sounds awesome. It's all such
a weirdly cyclical what's that pocket watches? I have to
have the one that you got me from Arden's collection.

(31:55):
Actually still it's upstairs my like a little watch box.
I have that one in the My mom got me
this gorgeous antique gold like I think eighteen twenties, eighteen thirties,
like handwound, pocket watch one Christmas. Okay, Mom, I know
mom does a good job with gifts. Anyway, that's not
what we're here to talk about. Although I love you, Mom,

(32:18):
I love your mom too. But here we are back
with Izzy and Clary consorting against alder Tree, which is
an interesting height dynamic that they obviously haven't given you
your heels because I think you and em are the
same height, right, like very very just a little taller
than her. But yeah, so but she they've obviously not
given you your heels, and they've given m her heels,

(32:39):
and there's a huge disparity and height there. All of
a sudden, I've just seen it, Like right as you
come in the scene, there's a shot from behind Emerald,
like a big wide shot from behind him, and I'm like,
hold on, look quite right because she looks massive. She
looks so much taller than you. All. This episode was
interesting because I was with, oh no, sorry, it's next
episode that I'm with both of them, and so trying

(33:01):
to figure out what shoes to put Clarion, because normally
when I was with Emorrad, they would put me in
flatter shoes, and then when I was with you and Math,
they put me in giant shoes. That wasn't the same shot.
But you know, we made at work film tricks of film. Okay,
there's one shot here of you walking down the street.
Was it on green screen? Not? It was on green

(33:23):
screen because we didn't have Chinatown yet. I was going
to say we didn't. But then we get to see
Hunter's Moon for the first moon, and Maya for the
first time. So, as some of you will remember from
a previous episode, Cat very miraculously remembered that the Hunter's
Moon set is actually a reused version of the boat
of Valentine's original cargo ship UM, and that we took

(33:47):
that apart. So if you look closely at these scenes,
you can see that the walls are actually slightly slanted
and they look like ship's walls that metal and sort
of corrugate corrugated, and you can see it in this UM.
There are a couple of mistakes in this. We were
in a hair process throughout and you can see but yeah,
you can see bobby pins in my hair holding it
out of my face. Stop it. Yeah, Yeah, this is

(34:11):
a cool scene. This was a cool entrance, and at
least she did a really good job here again another
UM guest star coming in. She ended up being a
series regular, but another guest star coming in in a
world that already exists, UM in a slightly daunting stage,
and she did a very good job of of initiating
who Myer is and what her place is going to
be in this world. Well, it's such a big task too,

(34:31):
because she's such a highly anticipated character, given how many
ties she has to so many different characters in the world,
and what other characters she brings with her eventually. UM,
but you know, we get another badass female in this world,
and it's it's who is entirely different than all the
other ones we have, and it's it's really fantastic to see.

(34:52):
But I do love this arc that you have with
her in this episode because it establishes again something we
don't get to see a lot of because we're so
insular in the world of the shadow Hunters. You get
to see not only the outside world of Mundanes and
New York, but you get to see a little bit
of the werewolf shadow Hunter dynamic outside of Luke and

(35:14):
and Alaric, which is, you know, not always um the
smoothest sure isn't. So we're back at the Institute and

(35:44):
we see Isabelle and Clary scheming once again trying to
figure out how to get to Jason. They can't track him,
they can't do anything, and they the only thing that
they know is that you know, he's not dead, which
is it's good news that they know James isn't dead,
but it doesn't help them much. Then suddenly, fortuitously, is

(36:05):
Bell's phone rings and it's Jace, and the first thing
he asked about is Clary, which I absolutely love. Yes,
shadow hunting is the first thing on Jason's mind, but
then right after that is Clary because not only you know,
it's his sister and we we want to keep her
safe and and he's really taking that brotherly roll on
and looking out for her. But they have a mission,

(36:27):
and they fill each other in on the information as
shadow hunters can only do on the phone, filled him
in on how Alec is doing, which worries him very
very much. Obviously, Jace didn't know that Alec had tried
to track him, didn't know that Alec was in this state,
knows the Claves after him, But now is even more
torn than ever because his brother in arms, his parabitae,

(36:49):
his his one and only partner is in trouble and
is about to die for all intons and purposes. But
even beyond that, you know Jason, Jason's torn in so
many different directions right now, and this is this is
tough for him because not only see torn between his sister,
his duty as a shadow hunter, his mission to stop Valentine,

(37:12):
knowing the Claves after him now alec neates him and
the werewolves are asking things of him, and it's it's
one of those moments where you go, yes, I would
do my job normally from having a really bad day
and I just need a second. I just need a
second to sort my life out and sort my brother up.
They don't know who they're dealing with, and all they
say is a shadow hunter who's not doing their duty,
who's abandoning them once again to the inequalities and the

(37:35):
inequities that exist in this world. Um and unfortunately Jasons
stumbled into werewolf territory and is not in a situation
where he can explain himself and gets his butt handed
to him and goes through a glass window. I believe
this is the first plate glass window we get to
see Jays go through. In the series, we have a

(37:56):
lot of people go through plate glass windows and it's
it's not great. It's not great. Um, that was Aaron.
That was Aaron through the plate glass windows. One they
wouldn't let me do. Um. And Aaron does an amazing job. Honestly,
I was honored to be able to be doubled by him.
He does such an incredible job as great. As much
as I wanted to do all of the stunts that
I possibly could, in this case, I was not allowed.

(38:16):
I will say we have a lot of in this
episode and next the fights look so good. You really
get to see the Maguire brothers, Darren and team hit
their stride in this because they got into the world
and you know, they really came through in the first
couple episodes and really get to shine in the next several.
But in this next scene, we have Rafael coming back

(38:41):
to haunt Simon literally and figuratively. I'm still doing with Camille.
Camille is still on the loose, Vampire Den's causing a ruckus.
Everyone's upset, and MPD is upset. The claim is upset.
Everyone wants to is after Raphael because they think it's
him because he's now the facto ahead of the clan,
but it's really Camille. But again, as often happens in

(39:01):
the Shadow world, nobody wants to listen to explanations. They
just want to punish people. Go. I will say that
these two an incredible charisma together. They did such a
good job developing this relationship, and I know that Alberto
and David got quite close over the course of filming,
and it really shows they do they do. They do
a very very good job. It does. I always feel,

(39:23):
you know, there's like many glimpses of the Godfather, you know,
these scenes between the two of them, but it's a
slightly slightly New York mafios kind of totally. Also, if
Alberto doesn't end up playing a young Brando at some point,
I will eat my hat like that photo, like you
remember when Brando did that? Yeah, he he absolutely needs

(39:44):
to play a young Brando and I know Alberto would
absolutely crush it. So if nobody's writing that, then one
of our listeners please get on writing a Brando biopic
and cast Alberto in it. All I ask is that
I get to play Aline Stretch in the biopic. I'll
just just want to do that. I'm happy just to
watch it honestly viewed from a distance and watch this
mastery unfold. I know Alberta would absolutely slay it too. Uh.

(40:08):
And then Simon goes home and sees his room still
in disarray, still in disarray because he destroyed it. I
don't know how much would be interesting to ask Alberto
how much you know, because when he was in that
state of vamposm does he remember doing that? How much
does he remember was it sort of a fugue state
or not? We don't know. That finds a bottle of vodka,

(40:30):
and then we're back with Clary and Izzy. Simon calls
Clary to ask for help because hey, my mom's missing
and there's a bottle of vodka and this is not good. Yeah. Um,
this is again where the mundane world creeps into the
shadow world, with often worse consequences. Yeah, very much. The

(40:50):
world can exhibit um and unfortunately, well fortunately, Clary actually
is a good friend this time and goes off to
help Simon, which I appreciate because she has not she's
not been there for Simon in the way that she
should be. In a lot of ways going on. I
get it. There's a lot going on. Yeah. Then we're
back with Luke with his other daughter Maya. Would we

(41:14):
get to see he's just the dad of everyone, and
it's the best. He's the good dad. He's the good
good dad. He's the best parent. How did we not
talk about obviously Luke is the best parent? Wow? I
feel Wow, he's obviously the best parent. Yeah. Well, to
be fair, we were in the institute thinking of all

(41:36):
the parents that aren't good and trying to make excuses
for them. So you know, he just slipped under the
radar because he only does his job, his mundane job,
his shadow world job, and his familial job. Yeah, he's
a lot going on. He's the most capable character I
think of all of them by the longest way. Yeah,

(41:58):
he did just threaten Jace, which I love. But fair enough,
I understand. I mean he's going to keep up appearances
of nothing else. Yeah, I get it, I get it,
and follow through? Would he know? Fair but dad? And yeah,
that's possible. Clar But but daddy, I love him. Yeah,
And he is my brother kind of sort of, so

(42:18):
he's like kind of my stepdad at this point in
a weird ways kind of my stepdad. Yeah, links are
all there? Really becomes your stepdad later. Yeah, Um, I
think poor Roger is about to get smacked in the chest. Yeah,
that was about to happen. Oh no, he gets assigned.
Raj is just kind of being a butt right now, Yeah,
because he comes into Sorry, it's just do st orders. Sorry,

(42:44):
it is just orders, though I kind of get it.
I kind of like, but if this was a real
military service, like if this was a real branch of
the military, like, what are you doing, you psychos? He
the guy that we're looking for just ran off with
their enemy, like he's got he's dead to us, like
this this is a he's a traitor, Like that's absolutely

(43:06):
what it is. Um, But we love these people, so listen,
We're gonna bend the rules for them. That's what's going
to happen. I still I'm still so interested to see
what you know. I want to follow Raj and alder
tree story and Lydia. I just sent them off having
a beer at the end of the day and be like,
what are we gonna do with these guys? Yeah, honestly,
these we Alberto and I had an idea that was

(43:27):
just like the just basically just the background, like the
supporting artists of our show, and it was just their story.
So like we'd walk past them in a scene and
then you would instead of following us, you would follow
the supporting artists, and they'd be like, these fucking guys, honestly,
we're constantly cleaning up their messages, like it's such a nightmare,
Like nobody really likes them. That's why they kind of

(43:48):
hang out on their own, like the sort of emo
e kids of the New York Institute where it's like
you just kind of let them do their thing and
then we clean up after they're done. Did you hear
Jas and the Hoppy Machine last week? Yeah, like that
he thought it was hilarious, but like it's a nightmare
for us. Why did this happen? And then like later on,

(44:08):
when Jason's cleaning weapons, everyone's just like, yeah, you've got yours, buddy.
About time. Speaking of time, we go back in time
once again to see Jason Alec and I find it
interesting because again this is another time we get to
utilize so much of our sound stage. This was back
up where we did the Shacks Demons, where where Clari

(44:31):
stabbed Jason season one, but they sort of redressed it, ReLit,
it shot up from a different angle and created this VR. Yes,
this hologram fighting test space in our again. Shout out
to folks VFX for just so similar. To the two guys,
We've got to look up their names. I feel terrible

(44:52):
that I don't remember them. But to the two guys
who play Young Jason Young Alec again, do such a
fantastic job. And again it's difficult to come into these
things and just throw yourself into it. So real. Credits
to those guys. Yeah, that's just Toronto, man. They had
so many amazing folks. Just they're so much talent in
front of and behind the camera. And then off we

(45:15):
are again to Alec having a fever dream of all
of this. Please don't die, Alec, please don't. I do
remember though Matt had a good time written this episode.
He'd come up to me every day and go, I
spent this much on Amazon today, I did this much
at not had to be passed out the whole episode.
It was bad. We all had those days. Tricky thing

(45:37):
with being asleep or passed out on set is to
not actually fall asleep. You have to do like get
into this sort of weird zend place we are like
I'm awake and I'm focused on what's going on, but
I'm also really comfortable and supposed to be asleep, because like,
that's how you fall asleep in real life, as you
pretend to be asleep, that's how you actually would go
about it. And the trick here is to not actually

(45:58):
do it, sort of do the opposite. Um. This takes
us to the dreaded alleyway with my fake belly at
a full prosthetic belly, so a shod of glass could
be put into it, which turned out to be entirely
useless because the shot of glass doesn't come out of
me in this scene, so that was just a bit
of a waste, unfortunately. But it comes out in the

(46:19):
next one and I use the same belly, so everything's fine.
Well there, But Jason, look our subway station the first
this might be one of the first times we got
to see Oh no, this was actually outside, this was
out on the street. UM, so it was a real
But they had the subway stop that they would move
to every set we went to because the subway stops
in Toronto did not look like this, um, and so

(46:40):
they bought. They bought it in pieces, and every episode
we would get a new side to it. Because it
was so expensive. They had to peeter it out for
several episodes, um, and then eventually we had the whole
one and they would just change the sign on it
and move it around. Yeah. Very interesting, which takes us
to Jason in a mundane hospital. Are the mundane is

(47:00):
going to do? How are they going to treat it?
Who knows? What's his blood going to turn up? Like?
Not good? Probably to a to a mundane um. These
guys are all very good as well. The medical prowess
of these guys was fantastic. They all did a very
very good job. See I didn't get to go. I
was never on this hospital set. But actually I was
never on the You guys went back to the hospital

(47:22):
a few, very few times and you and I don't
think you ever came with us. No, I never did.
But you know I was off with with the vampires
doing tracking and stuff. Come out of the coffin. That's funny,
that's great though, right, Yeah, but this is again it's
one of those moments where I love this friendship between

(47:43):
Clarion set. A minute. Yes, we're starting to see sparks,
and yes, we're starting to see other things, but it
really establishes how much they need the mundane world and
how much they need this friendship. And they're not they
guess they're fully immersed in the shadow world, but they're
still tethered to all the past in their childhood and
all these things and all these people, including Simon's mom,

(48:04):
that made them who they are. And just because Simon
is this thing now, it's nice that he has a
moment where he can be reminded that he's still, you know,
a person. In a lot of ways, He's still Simon.
He's not the person. He's not a monster, he's not
this thing that everybody's telling him he is. He's still Simon.
He's still Simon. And again with Clary, we see we

(48:26):
see this more later. This is the first glimmer that
we see of Clary and the Morgan Sterns being sort
of the opposite of the emotions, cloud judgment realm of
the shadow world. You know, that's such a staunch shadow
Hunter's principle, but when it comes to the Morgan Sterns,
their emotions fuel their power, and their emotions allow them

(48:47):
to kind of release what makes them special, which is dangerous,
which is probably why the emotions cloud judgment element exists
for the shadow Hunters. Absolutely, but it's it's through this
kind of connection that she's able to do it. As
he says, and let go and track a lane. And
here we are back with Harry Sham Jr. Doing what
he does best. In a couple of little twitches from Matt.

(49:10):
They're very well done, really earned his fee this episode.
Good job is this? This is where Raj gets slammed
in the wall, isn't it? Yeah? Poor rage hashtag poorage,
hashtag poor rage. I don't love that Raj really tries
to do with job. I have to say though, Poor Raj. Yes,
but Magnus doing the dark Darth Vader choke hold, Yeah,

(49:34):
I was a huge fan of that. It's me that's like, ye,
the Force be with you, Magnus. Yeah. And he's not
even looking either when he starts it, which is really cool.
It's just like and he's looking away. There's something so
cool about that. And yeah, he just gets slammed into
the wall. Poor buddy. Oh bless his heart again. Yes,
way to go folks VFX. Yeah, and the stunt team

(49:55):
would have had to. Yeah, this is the thing. This
show would not have worked the way it did if
all of these departments, between VFX and stunts and the
actors and the direction and the camera folks and everyone
really being on the same page and working together synergy
with for sure. Yeah, Shadow ondress magic, Yeah, Shadow onto

(50:17):
his team. We're back in the hospital Luke a Meyer

(50:40):
gunning for Jay's but he's gone. He's gone. He's lowing
down Um and being hunted down by Maya. Where we
get to see our new and improved werewolf transformations, which
I'm very excited about. The change from the sort of
flash of light and all of a sudden you're awarewolf
to the actual contortionist like breaking of the bones, the

(51:02):
body growing into whatever it is. And again, Atlicia does
a really good job with this, like she was very
new to set and had to sort of do these
motions for the first time and tell us how we
were going to see this for the rest of ever
Um and she does a fantastic job. And I love
the new animation of the wolves too in this season,
now that we have folks the effects, they're so good

(51:22):
and these wolves is a little bit different. Yeah, they
got a personality. But I will say it's a shame
that that jacket got destroyed because that was a really
good It was a good jacket, that was a solid jacket.
It is a real shame And good as you for
running up the stairs. How many times you do that?
A few? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah yeah.
This whole thing wasn't super fun and I wanted to

(51:45):
be able to do the stunt at the end of
this as a jump sort of off the roof, and unfortunately,
again this was the stunt I was not allowed to do,
which I later trained for and and was actually able
to do. But this is another one that aren't took
off my shoulders and does a fantastic job and it
looks incredible and were very proud of him. Little jealous,

(52:05):
jealous mom saves you, Mom saves me kind of kind
and then pulls your heart strengths a little bit. Yeah,
she's trying to apologize, and I get that. That's cool.
Josin doesn't apologie as well. Maybe that's why Clary doesn't
apologie as well. She didn't have a great example. Yeah, yeah,
like you only learn from those people, right, Like, Yeah,
She's like, I'm sorry, but you know it's hard, but sorry,

(52:29):
but it is not an apology. That's not an apology
in my book. If you follow that with anything, I'm
sorry is an apology. I'm sorry, I'm taking responsibility for
what I've done. I'm sorry, but it's not an apology
in my book. So maybe I'm just piste off because
I'm having a witness this sweater again. Yeah, I think so.
I think that's affecting your your judgment. And then we
have older Tree again. I do love that we have

(52:53):
a smart bad guy though, you know, it's it's one
of the I say bad guy age is not really
that as smart obstacle as it were. He against that
we try and pull. Yeah, he does. He sees the
Shenanigans over and over and over again and again. Poor
Raj knocked out on the bed. But I mean it
was a smart way to cover the fact that they

(53:13):
beat up the bodyguard. Yep, yep, yep, poor Rage, Oh
bless him. And he's just trying to do his job.
He's just trying to climb the ladder. Yeah, but we
do get to see the first glimmer of Isabelle being
put in the middle of the plays and her family
and having to make these hard choices and having to
make these sacrifices, and really, if anyone has to make

(53:33):
a deal with the devil in this episode is her.
And it happens more and more throughout that she sort
of ends up in the middle of our unkempt shenanigans.
I have to say, we are we are a Disney show,
you know, And so having this whole moment where Alec is,
where Magnus is begging Alec to come back, and goes,
I've tried everything except and then kisses him and it

(53:57):
doesn't work. I love the fact that we go there,
love the fact that, you know, we we don't use
that excuse, we don't use that trope, but it still exists,
which is nice. Kids again do such a fantastic I
say kids, they're all teenagers, they're not really kids, but
they do such a fantastic job. And they Yeah, they

(54:18):
really do encapsulate everything that this story is about. And
I remember being very, very pleased with this because they
would have been able to watch season one, but they
wouldn't have been able to see how much it's changed
from season one season two. They would have gotten a
little like snippets of things, but they wouldn't have seen
the real drastic changes. So they do a very very
good job with this and very pleased with it, absolutely well.

(54:43):
And I love the parallels to that we get to
see between Aleg and Izzy in this scene and the
Simon and Clary scene we saw earlier, of having this
person go, you are loved for who you are. Doesn't
matter what you are or who you love or any
of that. It's you're you, and that's where your value lies.
And that's kind of the under current of the entire

(55:03):
show kind of gets established over and over again. And
then we're back with Malick very briefly. Then we're back
to Simon and Izzy, not Simon and Izzy, Simon and Clary,
and you give them a very elongated kiss on the cheek,
a very temptuous kiss on the cheek. I would have
like if this was a first date for me and
I got a kiss on the cheek that lasted for

(55:24):
like two or three seconds, rather than just like a peck,
like a brief touching of skin, I would be like,
I want to I would love to see that person again,
and I hope that she would like to see me again,
because that's what that felt like to me. So you're
you told Simon a little something there, you told him
a little something, You gave him a little a little
like maybe a little nudge. Well, this is the thing

(55:47):
is Clary's in this weird space where she knew how
she felt about Simon and knew how she felt about Jace,
and then when Valentine throws the monkey ranjem oh, by
the way, who's your brother into it, she starts to
reevaluate what what love is in her mind and how
she's always defined love. She's going, well, maybe if this
is how I felt about this person, and this is
how I felt about this person, maybe I was wrong

(56:08):
my entire life. Maybe the thing right in front of
me is something I should explore, something that's always been there,
something that's you know, this person that's been there for
me my entire life, who's always been my support system,
always been the thing that makes me happy, always been
right there, and I've kind of ignored and taken for granted.
So you know, there's there's there's a little hesitation on
both parts, but they're they're dipping their toe in the

(56:30):
proverbial waters. Yeah, we'll just figuring it out, which brings
us to Simon a mom having what seems like it's
going to be the conversation that is my hands down
favorite scene in the show, but ends up not being
that conversation because of Raphael. Another proverbiable monkey wrench comes
in and sort of quasi saves the day. But I

(56:53):
think if the whole story kind of makes it worse. Um,
but yeah, tricky, tricky style, that's subtle. That's subtle, overlying
threat of I can infiltrate your life. And then she
invites him into their home. I mean, just sitting there,
I was rewatching this screaming at the TV. Did we

(57:14):
ever say in our show that vampires need to be
invited in? I believe it's either addressed or understood there's
some kind of there was some some reference to it previously,
or we see it later one of the two. I
think it might even be with Heidi. I think Heidi
has to be invited into the Lewis house as well.

(57:36):
But the fact that Raphael is it's an even bigger
threat for Simon and an even bigger moment of Holy moly,
what am I gonna do? Now? My home isn't even
safe from the people I love Aren't Safe anywhere. It
just feels like The Godfather we get to keep going
to in this episode. I absolutely love it. Yeah, very much,
think between Mission Impossible and The Godfather. But you know,

(57:58):
we get to see all the world's colliding, which we
rarely get to see so often in this series, were
either in the Werewolf world with the shadow Hunter world
or you know, the Clave world or Valentine's realm or something.
We really get to see the mundane, the down Rollers,
and the shadow Hunters all coming to a head in
this episode. Yeah, and I we're back at Jade Wolfe.
Larry's yelling at Luke boy, oh boy. Other people have

(58:23):
other responsibilities in this world. Yeah, Like, and it's tricky,
like Jason is about to have this exact same conversation
with Maya, like you have responsibilities to your people and
your family and your pack. I understand that, but like,
my responsibility is my brother's in there. I gotta say it,
like that's all it is. But Claire is going about,
Claire is going about, Claire is going about for Jayce.
Whether that's correct or incorrect, who knows, because we haven't

(58:45):
really interacted that much since I was just like peace out.
I'm going with bad guy. We've had like a couple
of scenes, but not any real actual Clary Jason like
proper decompressing scenes. But she's going about we the next
scene more episodes. Yeah, the next scene the Maya j
S face off. To pay attention to the background in that,

(59:07):
because we filmed this where the raccoons used to live
in the back where the hard Tale was. So the
first the first shot of Maya's sort of p o
V of Jace with New York in the background is
all fake. All of New York in the background is
completely fake because obviously we weren't there. Um and folks again,
did the folks beffex did an amazing, amazing job. I
do love how Maya has a completely new outfit here.

(59:30):
It's so great because we sort of established the fact
that the world wolves have bags of clothes hidden all
over New York. Not yeah, but she does, and the
awkward date episode she mentions it. But yeah, it's it's
they're like dotted around. They have like little stashes of
clothes everywhere, which I think is genius. You would have
to with New York is a good place to do that. Yeah,
and then see we we do come in for the

(59:52):
for the same everyone does. Everyone is there, all of
them get it. I'm super into it. This is it's
it's actually. This is why the culmination of this episode
is why it's one of my absolute favorites, because so
much comes together to work. We all sort of end
up together in this like last sequence of scenes, and

(01:00:12):
I think it's really cool. I think it's a really
cool episode. I just remember the feeling of this all
being cool whilst we were doing it. Yeah, it was again,
it's it's like that other episode with the werewolf fight.
We really get to establish the world or the episode
where we went in to save Meliorn and when we
brought all the worlds together. It you really get to

(01:00:33):
feel that energy and that kind of epic nature of
a show in scenes like you know, like this, and
then we get to the culmination of the entire episode
in Magnet's department. I love these scenes again because we
get to see all these character relationships and there's so
many little details that play into it. And you and

(01:00:53):
Matt did such a beautiful job on this scene. Fun scene,
and I am again Greg gave us a little freedom
in the edit with this, so that the Parabti oath
had to be verbatim. Obviously, it's what was in the books.
It is the oath. The oath is the oath. That's
how you say it. But I remember leaning into Matt
at one point and just saying give me a little,

(01:01:14):
just give me, just give me a little second after
the oath and please don't leave me was not in
the script originally, but I remember feeling the first take.
I remember feeling like, that's what I need to say
to this person, That's what needs to come out of me,
because I can't live my life without you, and I
am in a completely lost situation and the only way

(01:01:35):
I can express it is please don't leave me on
my own. And that was like yeah, and we did it,
and Greg came out and said that was great and
ends up in the show. And it is again one
of those culbinations where the writing was fantastic and the
direction was fantastic, the cast around us fantastic, and the
edit was fantastic. That everything just worked in this situation

(01:01:58):
and getting a little emotional even talking about it. It
was such an emotional day for for everyone and it
just it just worked. I remember being really proud of this,
really really proud of this because everything except for one
little c g II blip that I just noticed. The
parab a tyron on Young Alec when we're doing the

(01:02:18):
oath is the next parab a tyroon. So later on
in the season when they when they do the thing
to like cut it out, that's the room that's glowing
through his shirt, not the para a tyron. It's the
one with the little thing that cuts it out. But
everything else was incredible, Everything else is everything else great again.

(01:02:39):
I love these scenes where you have so many of
these characters come together. You get to see little glimpses
at all the relationships, Like even even the way Greg
blocked it. He put Harry and I next to each other,
which you rarely get to see Magnus and Clary interact
up to this point, and you get to see that
sort of godfatherly relationship. You know, Claire, I grab his
hand because it's all we can do. We're just literally

(01:03:00):
holding on to each other for dear life, hoping, praying
in any any way that we can that you both
are going to pull through, because we don't know what's
going to happen to either of you. If one of
our eyes. Yeah, I know, so there really isn't impressident
for it, like we don't know what happens here, and
he does he like goes at one point, and again
I think that was Matt more than anything, Like, I

(01:03:21):
don't really remember that being in the script, but I
remember his face moving away from my hand and feeling
like in my chest. I was like, oh my god,
he's just he's just died. He just died in my arms.
And then bringing him in was part of the blocking.
And I remember hearing because I obviously can't see his
face while it's happening with the camera, can I remember
hearing that first like and actually kind of feeling it

(01:03:41):
on my chest because his chest is next to my chest,
feeling that like first inhale for the first time, and
just remembering that like sense of relief that washed over me.
I guess as the actor it was it was really
it was really something special this scene. It was really great.
And then, as always happened in the shadow World, just
as quickly as we get that wash of relief and

(01:04:03):
joy and togetherness, Alder Tree snatched away from us comes
storming in. It's that heartbreaking moment where Alec gets you
for just a moment and then before he can even
understand what's going on, And really, Isabelle, I think, is
the only one who understands, because even Clary is going with,
what's what's happening? We got him, we saved him. He's okay,
he did the good thing. What's going on? And you

(01:04:23):
just get torn away from us? And Jake's understands because
I think from the moment you correct me if I'm wrong,
from the moment that isabel says by order of the clave,
you sort of get the picture. He knows, he knows
what's going on, and he I think, deep down he
knew that any of these are eventualities throughout the proceeds
of the episode, you know, from asking Maya like you

(01:04:46):
you can kill me, but please just let me save
him first. That's that's it's not a it's not a
vailed threat. That's like a real thing, like I don't
I don't mind if this is the end of my
life tonight, that's fine, but please let me sort him out.
Please let me take care of my brother. And the
same when he sees everyone when the shadow Unser has
turned up, like okay, there are consequences that are going
to come with this, and that's okay, but let me
do this first. Let me take care of this thing first. Um.

(01:05:09):
And it's probably one of the things I admire the
most about Jason's It does have this sort of self
sacrificial nature. Unfortunately largely because of how he was raised
and how little he values himself and how much he
hides that and this, that and the other. But it
is something I admire about him, is that he cares
about everyone else kind of more than himself. But it's
duty and family before self and that's I mean, that's

(01:05:31):
the way the shadow Hunters. But tricky one. Duty and
family can be. It can mean different things to different
shadow Hunters. Absolutely absolutely, um. And that brings us to
the end, nearly to the end of our episode. I
have to say, well done, Sherwood. This was a beautiful
episode for you. And I know you and Matt talked
about this episode quite often, but it needs to be
said you too. Really, this is why people love the

(01:05:55):
Parabatite Bond so much is because of this episode, because
of the work that you two did on this episode
to make get as significant as it was. So that's kudos.
Very sweet, Thank you very much. I actually happenstance happened
to have paused on a series of names here. Um,
so we would like to give a huge amount of
credit to Leonardus. If I say any of this incorrectly,
I really apologize. Leonidas Castrounis to Marsu's Sally Sinelli, Alex

(01:06:20):
elling Dale, Whitby Dale was teen Jason, and Romi Weltman,
who played ten year old Alec in order ten year
old Alec, eleven year old Jon, teen Aleck, teen Jason,
Tina as well. So thank you guys so much for
doing such an incredible job. We know how difficult it
can be, and thank you for really questioning the well
done folks, and thank you Shadow fan for listening with
Dorio Angels and we'll see you next time. Returned to

(01:06:50):
the Shadows is hosted an executive produced by Me, Katherine
McNamara and Dominic Sherwood. Our executive producer is Lingley. Our
senior producers are Liz Hayes and Diego Tapia. Our producers
are Hannah Harris and Kristin Vermilia, and our intern is
Sam Kat's. Original music by Alex Kinsey and performed by
Alex Kinsey and Katherine McNamara,