It was in the Stars: Nancy Reagan’s White House

The president’s wife. Hers is an interesting position, Really just window dressing. Or not. Almost criminal in nature, Trusting the stars to Guide foreign policy is Overly woo-woo. Astrology ran the White House in the 80s and This is the story.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
Elizabeth Dutton Zaren Burnette.

Speaker 1 (00:06):
So good to see you, really good to see you.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
I've been good. That's great. I got a question for you.
Do you know it's ridiculous?

Speaker 1 (00:13):
Oh heavens, do I listen? Valentine's Day is ridiculous? Oh
don't you think?

Speaker 2 (00:18):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (00:19):
I think it's like a garbage day.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
What is even the story of that one? Really? Saint
Valentine like shot someone in the heart with an arrow
and we all celebrate. What is the real story?

Speaker 1 (00:26):
Did you know he's the patron saint of lovers?

Speaker 2 (00:30):
Yes? I did know that, Eliabeth, I did. Okay, Epleptics, No,
I did not know that one. And Beekeepers I did
not know that one either. Right.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
But see that's I'm saying Valentine's date. But we're not
here for Saint Valentine. We're just gonna go somewhere different
with Valentine's state. Okay, we got a hot tip from
Instagram friend Sophia Techno.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
Okay, thank you Sophia tech.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
Now, oh she's the best. She passed along, are they?
I don't know. Sophia Techno passed along a really terrifying company.
It's called manly Man. Manly Man. Yeah, they're tough. It
said his love language, cured meat God. So basically it's

(01:16):
a beef jerky company.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
I like that just as an adjective. This is a
beef jerky company. It's like it's Mickey Mouse. It's beef jerky.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
So they sell jerked beef and they have meat hearts,
which are like you know those candy hearts.

Speaker 2 (01:29):
I know it. Beef hearts aren't.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
Well, it's me meat hearts and they're heart shaped and
it says stuff like XO XO love. Some say beefmine
Hello the hearts.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
Yeah, but there's there's jerky, but it's meat yeah, looks
oh god.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
So some of them say you plus me, meet me, okay,
but then there's naughty hearts.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
They meet me was not naughty meat hearts? What's the noughty?
Can you give me an example?

Speaker 1 (02:00):
I'm trying to look, and it's like they won't show
pictures of the naughty. Oh wait, it says hot, wild, spicy,
eat me sexy, and then a devil emoji. Anyway, So
they have all these Valentine's Day gifts for men because
most men apparently only eat meat and not chocolate. They

(02:21):
sell beef jerky flowers, so you can do a bouquet
of beef jerky.

Speaker 2 (02:25):
Flowers edible arrangement essentially quote.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
Most of our manly gift sets are available in three
different versions, gift boxes, ammo can gift baskets and tactical
Christmas stocking kits. EAT are based on different themes and
include products both curated through a thoughtful selection process and
custom designed at our headquarters located in sunny southern California.

(02:53):
This is so Orange County. I can't take it. There's
a bloody Mary gift set, bacon scented gift wrapping paper.
This is edible greeting cards like they write on beef jerky. Oh,
and the whole thing is just like fragile, toxic masculinity.
But aside from that, Zaren, maybe if you're good, Saint

(03:14):
Valentine will give you some beef.

Speaker 2 (03:16):
He'll meet me something.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
Will yeah, spicy anyway, sorry about that. I'm just going
that was a long daddy.

Speaker 2 (03:25):
Yeah, that was ridiculous though, Thank you, Elizabeth. I know
as a California native.

Speaker 1 (03:29):
Yes, you know, I love to talk about that. I'm
like the Anthony Kias over here.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
We're going to test that today. You know that Ronald
Reagan was once the governor of this great state? Oh man, yes,
but you may not know this next one. Did you
know that when Ronald Reagan was sworn in as governor
of California in nineteen sixty seven, Yes, he scheduled his
inauguration to occur exactly at twelve ten am.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
What like, right after midnight?

Speaker 2 (03:58):
Why would Ronnie Reagan want to become governor at exactly
ten past midnight? I don't know, great question, Elizabeth. Well,
because at that precise moment, Jupiter would be at its zenith.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
Wait are you kidding me?

Speaker 2 (04:09):
And as any good occultists can tell you, Jupiter is
the symbol for kings. But not only that, Elizabeth, Jupiter
is also the zodiacal symbol for fame and prosperity, all
things governors desire.

Speaker 1 (04:21):
And boys go to Jupiter to get stupider. Exactly midnight,
it was Wait, that's what he inaugurated? What?

Speaker 2 (04:29):
Yes, this is all true story. If you asked the
newly elected governor's executive secretary that night, he would have
told you, as he told reporters at the time, Governor
Reagan quote is not guided by the stars, nor do
we intend to have stargazers in the administration. He was
lying they had stargazers in the administration anyway. But if
you asked the newly elected governor's wife, she would have

(04:49):
told you, oh that that was my idea, because Ronnie
and I are we're down with the mysticism. Not a
direct quote, but that woman, of course was Nancy.

Speaker 1 (04:58):
Reagan and nance Okay.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
Get ready for a wild one.

Speaker 3 (05:01):
Oh boy, this is Ridiculous Crime a podcast about absurd

(05:25):
and outrageous capers, heists and cons It's always ninety nine
percent murder free and one hundred percent ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (05:35):
Sure, Nancy Reagan, Yeah, all right. Now, these days you
see her get mentioned from time to time on social media,
usually for what she did as a First Lady of
the United States. Either you know about like the just
Say No drug wearing his campaign, she did sit on
lap she did for a Christmas photo. Very yeah, he

(05:56):
puts he was a Santa and she was I think
miss Elf. She was an elf.

Speaker 3 (06:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:02):
Anyway, these days you'll read also read online about how apparently,
back in her Hollywood days, the former First Lady was
rumored to be quite a crowd pleaser, Elizabeth. Yeah, and
not just says an act, more of a people pleaser.

Speaker 1 (06:13):
One might say, yeah, a little bit saucy.

Speaker 2 (06:15):
She liked a party.

Speaker 1 (06:16):
Yeah, in like risk ways.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
She was a goat.

Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yes, I am. I have a relative who was sort
of in the circles Pasadena kind of like.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
Yeah, that whole like wild like uh, astronomers in Hollywood,
people getting into sex parties them.

Speaker 1 (06:34):
Yeah, she knew the Reagans. I mean, this isn't like
a contemporary of mine. It's she's long deceased, but like
she's amazing, sounds amazing, And she knew them, and she's
always like, they're freaks. They are freaky deaky. Now I'm
like ten, being like tell me, tell me everything, and
she's like they are one for No, she didn't tell me.

Speaker 2 (06:53):
She told them all, Oh okay, you're just like listening
around the corner. Yeah, I'm like, what, what's a freak?
You're looking up freaks? You just shut down, you're more confused.

Speaker 1 (07:02):
She got down with a lot of fellas.

Speaker 2 (07:05):
Yes, Nancy, yeah, not your no, no, no, no, no, of course, Now, Elizabeth.
The thing to know about Nancy Reagan is she was
always crazy cunning, a true operator, as this story will
in particular go to show, she was also the real
power behind the throne. Right, that's not a lot of
people know that. It's not a big secret, but we'll
get into that anyway. To keep them hold that power
for her and Ronnie, Nancy relied on a cadre of

(07:28):
psychics and astrologers. In fact, Nancy Reagan let astrologers decide
American foreign policy. Amazing, Yeah, because that same policy that
her husband as the president would then make real because
he listened to her and she listened.

Speaker 1 (07:39):
To the astrology, and then everyone listens to him.

Speaker 2 (07:41):
Yeah, we'll get into all that, but first, let's go
back in time. You're gonna go, yeah, do you want
to do a Huey Lewis Esse.

Speaker 1 (07:50):
Do you know my first concert that I ever saw
was Huey Lewis State Fair Calexville's amazing, He's incredible.

Speaker 2 (07:58):
Oh my god, Yes, could you give us a little
Huey Lewis Sands the News?

Speaker 1 (08:03):
UHM, gonna go back.

Speaker 2 (08:07):
Well, Huey Lewis Sands the News Right, Well, I was
just you know, calling him up for the eighties of
it all. They're back in time. But anyway, Ronald Reagan,
what was that all about? Right? Who knows you remember
how they called each other mommy and daddy? Yes, right,
that's kind of what you're saying with the freaky right.
I always thought that was eerie. Anyway, I'm going to
do that.

Speaker 1 (08:26):
I'm gonna call everybody Mommy, Andy, just anybody.

Speaker 2 (08:30):
I think it's cool. Like I like you. You earned it.
I saw you've been across the bar Mommy and Daddy.

Speaker 1 (08:35):
Continue Mommy, okay.

Speaker 2 (08:36):
Anyway. The year's nineteen forty seven. Ronald Reagan's movie career
has been sidelined by World War Two. The star of
New Rockney All American aka Win One for the Gipper, right,
that guy? That was his biggest hit, by the way,
but that was back in nineteen forty, so now he's
seven years past that. He's not been getting parts after
the war. In total, I don't know if you know this,
Reagan was in fifty three films really. His last film

(08:57):
was The Killers. Anyways, At this point is stalling, Reagan
decides I'm gonna run for office. He's elected to be
the president of SAG YEP Screen Actors Guild March tenth,
nineteen forty seven. Now in April, he's interviewed by the
FBI and he supplies the agents with a list of
suspected communists and Communist sympathizers in Hollywood. Right now, here's
a little Tinseltown history for you, Elizabeth. The Hollywood Blacklist

(09:19):
was created under Reagan's presidency of SAG. Yeah, in October
of that same year, forty seven. He had known commed
hater Walt Disney. They like tag team together, and they
went to Washington and appeared before the House un American
Activities Committee, which were the first They were the first
witnesses in the hearings that would eventually give us the
Hollywood Blacklist and the Red Scare.

Speaker 1 (09:39):
And destroy careers of geniuses.

Speaker 2 (09:41):
But yeah, completely, and when it was Reagan's turn, he
sang like a bird. Reagan took their stand. He named names,
and I mean he was like a phone book just
spitting out names.

Speaker 3 (09:49):
Right.

Speaker 2 (09:49):
He was like he named friends, co workers on film sets,
anyone he suspected being likely communists.

Speaker 1 (09:54):
Right, Yeah, Like that's the thing is that it was
just even if he had a whiff, it's not like
he suspected the actual party.

Speaker 2 (10:01):
They don't have like a picture of their card you know,
it's like, oh, he's a card carrying communist. No, it's
just like he.

Speaker 1 (10:05):
Smokes clothes, cigarettes and suspicious.

Speaker 2 (10:07):
He likes too many German expressionist films. I think he's
a communist Anyway, big moment in the beginning of the
wave would be called Red Scare. Okay, Reagan plays his part.
This turn by the Reagan into becoming an anti commi
witch hunter. This caused tensions with his wife at the time,
actress Jane Wyman, and the two prepaired divorced. Now, this
was about when Ronald Reagan made his big switch from
being a Democrat who had backed Truman in forty eight

(10:29):
and once called Roosevelt a true hero. Right, he becomes
an Eisenhower Republican in fifty two. Yeah, just switch a road. Now,
there was another big change in his life around this
same time. Well, Reagan was president of SAG. This young
actress came calling upon him. Right, the year was nineteen
forty nine. The actress was named Nancy Davis. Can you
guess why Nancy Davis first came into Ronald's office that

(10:52):
day when he was SAG president?

Speaker 1 (10:54):
Like you, Susponso.

Speaker 2 (10:57):
Is the chimp in the office. Excuse she was worried
about her name appearing on a list of communist sympathizers. Oh,
but it's not what you would suspect, Elizabeth. It turns
out the suspected comedy was a different Nancy Davis, and
she's like, I don't want that girl getting my career
all messed up.

Speaker 1 (11:13):
She's like, let's change my name by you marrying me.

Speaker 2 (11:15):
Exactly simplified things now, just as sure as Quentin Tarantina
Love's feet. Nancy Reagan was no comy, right, but she
was single and the two hit it off. Nancy was
twenty eight, Ronnie was thirty eight, and then, obviously, she
married Ronnie. She becomes Nancy Reagan now. According to her biographer,
Nancy had been scheming for months about how she get
into Ronnie's pants. Right. She finessed it so she felt

(11:38):
she had to now lock it down and make him
put a ring on it. Nancy's plan work breage brilliantly
he did, and she had more plans, many many more
plans for him. Right now, let's get forward again. This
year is now nineteen fifty three. For it, we've gone
four years forward. Right. The name Reagan is now practically
mud in Hollywood. He's not only not getting parts of Reagan.
At this point, the name Reagan wouldn't even get you

(11:59):
like a a table to Brown Derby. Right, he's just
like falling off. Ronald Reagan was on his way to
officially becoming a has been B movie actors right. Right
by this point, he's making mostly forgettable westerns. He's already
made his classic man in a Chimp movie, Bedtime for Bonzo.
That's in the past. Right at this point, he's he's
making B movies with the titles like quote, She's working

(12:20):
her way through college.

Speaker 1 (12:21):
That was the name of the movie.

Speaker 2 (12:22):
That was the name of the title. Trust me, that
title makes the flick sound far more interesting than it was.

Speaker 1 (12:27):
It's like, legitimately just like a cinema verite, a lady.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
Working her way through college. Anyway, year nineteen fifty three,
Eisenhower's president. We're in a very staid time in America.
Reagan is forty two years old, and he's looking around
for what's he gonna do. You know, if big time,
like lasting Hollywood fame was gonna happen, it would have
happened by now. He knows that ship is saled, so
he's willing to face the writing on the wall. He
has to come up with a new Reagan. Reagan, also,

(12:52):
mind you, was deeply in debt. He's got a Malibu
ranch cost him eighty five thousand dollars. He's got another
eighteen grand and assorted debts all told, that's one hundred
and three thousand dollars. I know you like the translation,
give it to me one point two million in twenty
twenty four dollars.

Speaker 1 (13:07):
That's not good.

Speaker 2 (13:08):
Yeah, so he's one point two million in debt.

Speaker 1 (13:10):
Yeah, but like, imagine what a Malibu ranch. What does
the Malibu ranch go for today?

Speaker 2 (13:15):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (13:15):
Sure, yeah, it's like fifty million dollar proper.

Speaker 2 (13:17):
It would be ridiculous. Yeah, you know he got in early.
He got in good.

Speaker 1 (13:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:22):
Anyway, the dude also has responsibilities. His divorce from Jane
Wyman's left him paying five hundred month in child support.
He's got a new baby with his wife Nancy. Oh yeah,
I remember, as I said, he's not getting cast much.
So Reagan's income is basically coming from whatever roles he
can get from one off appearances on TV shows or
personal appearances for corporations like he's doing as he's doing
trade shows ads like conventions. Right, So Reagan's talent agency

(13:46):
is still a big time agency. It's MCA Lou Wasserman's
old place. His agents tell Reagan they got a new
gig for him right now. It would be a show Well,
it's in a show room, right, and then it's in
the newly made pleasure Oasis in the desert Las Vegas.
They're looking to bring in like, you know, Hollywood types,
recognizable faces from TV to impress the tourists and make them,
you know, give a little touch of glamour Hollywood. Who, right,

(14:07):
come on, what do you think Reagan? Regan's I don't know,
is there maybe he kind of thinking about it, know
what he wants to do now. They thought Reagan would
just do absolutely fine as a touch of Hollywood, because
that's basically what his career is, a touch of Hollywood. Now.
He is recognizable, but he's not a big star. People
know him. So his agents they know he needs the money.
So they're like, Regan, come on, let's take it. He's like,

(14:29):
I don't know, he's not the ideal career move right. Yeah,
it's nineteen fifty three. Vegas at this point is still
the sticks.

Speaker 1 (14:36):
Oh yeah, totally.

Speaker 2 (14:37):
He's making Vegas into what we know. It's not even like,
you know Sinatra at nineteen sixty Yeah, nobody exactly right.

Speaker 1 (14:44):
So this is like when Fremont Street was completely downtown?

Speaker 2 (14:48):
Is the scene? Right? So the Frontier, the casino, The
Frontier offered Reagan a bunch of money to come out
there because they know he didn't want to come, so
they gave him thirty thousand dollars for two weeks.

Speaker 1 (14:58):
In their show in the in those days, that's three.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
Hundred and forty two thousand dollars in twenty twenty four
money for two weeks work for Ronald Reagan. He's like,
Reagan's like, let me think about it.

Speaker 1 (15:08):
Are you kidding me?

Speaker 2 (15:09):
He's like, let me think about He goes on to Nancy.

Speaker 1 (15:10):
They discussed, Oh, I can imagine she's right.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
She's like, she's not totally into it, but she likes
the numbers, like that was a big number, all right.
So they decided they need to follow the advice of
someone they can trust to help them make these decisions.
So they turned to Hollywood astrologer Carol Wrider. Oh boy, Now,
at the time, he had an astrology column in the
La Times. So the Reagans they flipped through the La
Times and they found Carol Writer's zodiac breakdown. His horoscope

(15:34):
on the day for Reagan's horoscope was this is a
day to listen to the advice of experts. So He's like,
my agents are experts. I'm taking the job. So Reagan says, yes, Wow,
you listened to his agent MCA and the.

Speaker 1 (15:44):
Horoscope toty three thousand.

Speaker 2 (15:46):
Exactly. Now, that one choice, it was not made by him,
radically changed his fortunes and the future of America. Two
years later, Reagan gets a new gig hosting the General
Electric Theater, which is on TV for the next decade.
Is that consistent fame to basically plan his next move
a political career. Soon enough, Reagan's elected the governor of California,

(16:07):
and both Ronnie and Nancy credited the zodiac and the
newspaper Psychic for guiding their fate. Exactly. That's when he
took power as governor. There was that whole Jupiter is
ascending an event because now they're locked into this lifestyle. Okay,
now that we laid down our star crossed foundation, Elizabeth,
let's take a break and when we get back I'll
tell you all about the psychic that shadow ran the

(16:29):
Reagan White House. And we're back Elizabeth.

Speaker 1 (16:51):
Hey, how are you all right?

Speaker 2 (16:53):
So we're talking mommy and Daddy, Yes, Ronnie and Nancy.

Speaker 1 (16:57):
Yes. Father.

Speaker 2 (16:58):
It's like a really different Nancy's story. Okay. Over the years,
after he had guided.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
Them, imagining her like all smeared like coal eyeliners, blood hair,
like what do you.

Speaker 2 (17:10):
Call baby pin through the nose to Okay, Ever, the years, uh,
what's his name? Carol Writer? Right, he'd been guiding them
from his newspaper column, and Nancy Reagan eventually initiates a
close personal relationship with this Hollywood astrologer to the stars
Carol Writer. And by the way, this guy is a
flamboyantly gay man, Okay, like just flamboyant as flamboyant can be.

(17:30):
And somehow this didn't bother the wagons back then when
they needed his help. I guess it was like Hollywood hairdressers.

Speaker 1 (17:35):
He's playing roles for.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
Men to be gay if they could, you know, style
your hair to divine the stars.

Speaker 1 (17:41):
And in that situation, and I think it carries out
in some communities to this day that if you have
like if you play a certain role, like you're saying
a hairdresser or an astrologer.

Speaker 2 (17:50):
What did they prescribe for it?

Speaker 1 (17:51):
But you have to be you can be flamboyant, but
they have to be kind of sexless. Definitely say yes,
I don't want to you know, they don't want to
see them like in a relationship or living their life.
It's really weird. Yeah, I know what you mean with
that whole scene.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
So that seen they were cool with it. Then apparently anyway,
Nancy Reagan, what was that all about? What she like? Okay,
Nancy Reagan back when she was Nancy Davis was a
total trooper, and I mean like an actress, like she
was showfolk, the daughter of show folks. Oh really yeah,
her mother was an actress and her mother helped her
secure a future in Hollywood. So Nancy Reagan, you know,
she took care of the rest. She was always a

(18:24):
shrewd personality. And but she and Ronnie they were, as
I said, a peculiar couple. And as you know, those
close to them they say that they as you pointed out,
and they're kind of freaky. They adored each other in
more white terms, right, I told you they call each
other mommy and daddy. But they were also apparently super
horny for each other, like when they were always down
for PDA, like the heavy petting in the Oval office.

(18:46):
Years later, like when they're like, you know, kind of
wrinkled and old. The White House Doctor said quote, I
feel like I was a kid watching a sister necking
on the couch with her boyfriend. Oh my god, you're
welcome for that visual.

Speaker 1 (18:56):
I'm like shuddering. But I'm also kind of like proud
of them.

Speaker 2 (18:59):
Yeah, call him super prouder. I might get it, you know,
like I want him like lick smacking each other.

Speaker 1 (19:04):
Yeah, they're just like they She takes some beef jerky
in her mouth and she leans over and he receives it.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
Yes, so sweet, and then like as that to the
jelly beans in his mouth already she like bird fed
to him.

Speaker 1 (19:17):
She chews up the jelly bellies and choose them.

Speaker 2 (19:19):
Yeah, yeah exactly. They're still warm but half cheered. He
likes to suck out anyway. Are you trying?

Speaker 1 (19:26):
It can't happen?

Speaker 2 (19:28):
We all rad it, Carol writer, what's up with that guy?
Why did the Reagans love him so much? Great question?

Speaker 1 (19:33):
I learn more about him.

Speaker 2 (19:34):
Now, as I said, dude was a newspaper astrologer, but
he was also a personal fortune teller of fabulous psychic
to the stars. He'd first been recognized as a boy
having psychic powers by a renowned astrologer named Evangeline Adams,
who we should do a story about it. Anyway. She
was a curious one. It was illegal for her to
be like a psychic and astrologer in New York at
the time. This is the Madam x era of like

(19:55):
the nineteen twenties. She was like writing astrology books. The
ghost writer for her books on astrology was a young
Aleister Crowley. No, yeah, she was about about it.

Speaker 1 (20:04):
Well, you know what's weird again, We've done this for
a few weeks in a row now and I'm not
sure how this is happening. I'm talking about a Hollywood
psychic really yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:14):
On Thursday, so we don't tell each other our stars.

Speaker 1 (20:16):
Its like keeps happening of like compendium. I'm sorry, this
is just I'm kind of I can't process this. This
is really weird. It's in the stars totally.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
We're in sync, I guess, yeah, like college roommates.

Speaker 1 (20:26):
Like we were now in the band in sink.

Speaker 2 (20:28):
Exactly now, as I said Carol Ryder, when he was fourteen,
the famous astrologer of Angeline Adams, she told him you
have great powers, right, and he he's like, oh you
think so he doesn't listen to her. He's like, that's cool,
that's neat. But he was like, you know, like I
would have run away and joined the circus, right. He
was like, no, I'm going to go become a.

Speaker 1 (20:45):
Lawyer, so I want powers. I want psychic powers.

Speaker 2 (20:48):
Totally.

Speaker 1 (20:49):
That'd be down right, totally want that.

Speaker 2 (20:50):
He went the other way. We kind of denied him.
He went to U Penn. He gets a law degree,
he gets a job as a lawyer in a big
Philadelphia firm, and then he finds he hated it. He's like,
this is hello, Oh not for Carol Ryder. So he
did what you would counsel a little to do, Elizabeth.

Speaker 1 (21:04):
He quit nice.

Speaker 2 (21:05):
Yes, he threw up his deuces and walked down.

Speaker 1 (21:08):
I love quitting jobs.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
He would have made you feel real proud with this,
because next he started feeding the poor. That was his
mission was. It was the Great Depression at this point
in early nineteen thirties, and there was plenty of hungry
mouths to feet and he's like, I used to be
a lawyer. I got a little coin in my pocket.
And so he goes around feeding the homeless and the forgotten.
So around this time, this is when Carol decides he's
going to get into astrology full stop. Right, he starts

(21:30):
reading people's horoscopes. He embraces his powers, but soon, since
it is the Great Depression, he mostly starts to get in,
focusing on helping forgotten men get jobs. Oh wow, right,
he's not even like over there like enriching his pocket.
He's like, I can get you a job. Go down
to and he puts his fingers to his head and
he's like the stockyards and talk to a man named
Larry or whatever.

Speaker 1 (21:50):
Right, there's a man there with a mustache.

Speaker 2 (21:53):
Yeah, so big walrus mustache. Tell him you're from Brooklyn,
so out of nowhere. He receives this crazy news from
his doctor. Right, he has a pain in his back
that won't go away, so he visits a doctor. The
doctor tells him he has six months to live, and
he's like, I did not see this coming. What kind
of powers are these? Anyway, Carol writer freaks out, but
rather than give in to despair. What does he do?
He decides, uh, I know what to do. I'm gonna

(22:13):
read my own horoscope. So he goes to see he
is a doctor, right, and the stars inform him that
he just needs to relocate, and he's like, I knew it.
So he goes west.

Speaker 1 (22:21):
What was it like a parasitic twin.

Speaker 2 (22:25):
That's your guests, the parasitic.

Speaker 1 (22:27):
Anytime anyone's like my back hurts, I'm like you probably twin.

Speaker 2 (22:30):
That sounds like parasitic twin.

Speaker 1 (22:32):
Got a calcified parasitic twin in there.

Speaker 2 (22:35):
You got like your little baby brother inside you. He's
all he's all bone now. Anyway, he goes out there
and he finds quote physical protection in the Southwest, just
like the stars in his horoscope had told him.

Speaker 1 (22:47):
Did he go to Sedona?

Speaker 2 (22:48):
No, he went to La. Oh yeah, he ignored his doctor,
listened to the stars, moves out to La.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
You know what, that's what you gotta do. Sometimes.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
He arrives just in time for the Golden age of Hollywood.
It's such a good time in the great era of
studios and Darlot's and like, I don't know, party scenes.
It was great for Carol writer. Somebody who's fabulous and
looking to be fabulous for money, right, So the studio
bosses and the Hollywood power brokers and a lot of
the actors, the actresses, they're big believers in the occult.
They love this stuff. So they love you know, they

(23:16):
love stars out there, Elizabeth.

Speaker 1 (23:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:17):
Yeah, So the Carol writer, he finds a happy home
in Hollywood. He works his way into the Hollywood crowd.
His big debut as an astrologer to the stars took
place at Charlie Chaplin's house. He goes to a Charlie
Chaplin party and just starts reading people's cards and stuff,
and they're like, this guy's amazing, and everyone's like super
into it. Anyway, from then on, he's got all the
Hollywood glitterati around him. They all eager for him to
come to their parties or for them to go to his.

(23:40):
So he has I'm talking stars like Clark Gable, Tyrone Power,
Marlene Dietrich, Betty Grabil, Hetty.

Speaker 1 (23:46):
Lamar personal amazing.

Speaker 2 (23:48):
Oh yeah, I total a friend of the show, Hetty Lamar,
great girl, Greg Gal, I love her. Anyway, Apparently this guy,
he threw incredible parties. As I said, Soares really so imagine, like, well,
you don't have to imagine. I found one account of
one of his parties, the Reagan biographer Kitty Kelly. She
recorded the details of a Carol Ryder party at his
Hollywood Hills home, and I quote fish were swimming around

(24:10):
in his pool. For the Pisces party, he rented a
live lion for my Leo party, and he lined up
sets of twins for the Gemini party. He served astrologically
appropriate food such as meat and potatoes for moon children,
lemon pie for the tart tastes of aries people, and
hot red peppers for passionate scorpios.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
Oh, I want his life. I want psychic powers, which
would be amazing. Seriously, I would love.

Speaker 2 (24:37):
That wanding around in a I want to wear a momoo.

Speaker 1 (24:41):
And throw lavish parties. Guy, I love lavish parties them.
I like throwing and to go back in time and
live in that time in Los Angeles.

Speaker 2 (24:50):
Oh yeah, totally. It's a good time, very simple in
some areas.

Speaker 1 (24:55):
I'd just like to imagine what it looks like pre development,
very burgeoning development of things. Well, you know, there's slice
and Ladies open black dalliole Oh.

Speaker 2 (25:06):
Nancy Reagan, she was a Carol Writer superfan. Right, so
she attended his weekly Tuesday night astrology class. Yes, their
relationship blossomed into a full on like Fengali deal.

Speaker 3 (25:16):
Right.

Speaker 2 (25:16):
Okay, he was the Reagans like therapist, their marriage counselor
their love coach, their life coach, their everything. Right, So,
following his advice, he coached them right into the California
Governor's mansion in nineteen sixty seven. He's amazing and this
was noted by others. This wasn't like a big secret
because Time magazine took note, because two years later they
put him on the cover of Time magazine and announced
it with the headline Astrology and the New Cult of

(25:38):
the Occult.

Speaker 1 (25:39):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (25:39):
Yeah, like they were about about it. So the article
mentioned how writer, no longer young, had still attended to
as many personal clients as Time article noted, quote, the
phone rings constantly and writer spends much of his time
in a soft voiced swivet of ooh, moonchild, I'm happy
to tell you that this is a very good day
for you. So that's what he was doing towards, you know,
his golden years. Right after this same man was able

(26:03):
to guide the Reagans to power. Once the couple were
in the governor's mansion, you can imagine how the Republican
staff reacted to this life. They got there right, but
they had to swallow whatever they thought, because, as the
campaign consultant Stu Spencer.

Speaker 1 (26:15):
Noted, yes, I know that.

Speaker 2 (26:17):
Yeah, you know that. The Nancy warned folks like him
that quote. She was going to be the bad guy.
Oh yeah. She came in Darth Vader style, like he's
the Emperor. I'm Darth Vader. Fear me.

Speaker 1 (26:27):
There is a listener of ours. I think what's her name,
fran I think I remember because she said she was
a second generation California and I'm going to want up
for being a fifth anyway. So she recommended a book
called The Last Days of the Late Great State of California.
Oh okay, yes, and it has become one of my

(26:47):
favorite books ever.

Speaker 2 (26:48):
Yes I am, then I have to check that out.

Speaker 1 (26:50):
Eternal debt to her. But one of the so like,
the first chapter of the book is fiction. It's about
like an earthquake in California, the ocean. Last chapter fiction.
The middle part of it is all just like true
account of California through these years. It's like it came
out like sixty seven. The book interesting, and so they
talk about all the consultants, the political consultants who get

(27:13):
Reagan to where he he is, and so you know,
how do you get him in the governorship and the
manipulations of that. Yes, it's insane. It was he just
created a candidate exactly.

Speaker 2 (27:23):
He was like very much like if you want to
say Kennedy was the first TV candidate, Reagan was the first,
like you know, like focus group. So anyway, this is
how his Republican staff learned to look past the gay
astrologer who was informing Nancy and Ronald's decision making and
guiding them to power.

Speaker 1 (27:38):
I'm trying to imagine like all these stiff suits, yes, exactly,
just like sixty six, right, we got.

Speaker 2 (27:43):
Power you sixty seven, sixty six, sixty seven detectics. Sixty
six was the election year, sixty seventy takes power. So
this sort of management, though, wasn't a huge problem for
when Reagan was governor of California, but it would become
a problem for them once he considered running for president.

Speaker 1 (27:57):
Yeah, you can get away with a lot out here.

Speaker 2 (27:59):
Yeah, it's a land of Jerry Brown shaking earth.

Speaker 1 (28:02):
I think it is just amazing. Love him. One of
the greatest governors we ever had.

Speaker 2 (28:06):
Called Governor Moonbeam himself.

Speaker 1 (28:07):
Well that's do you know why they call him governor Moonbeam. No,
why you'd think it was because it was all crystals
and what I.

Speaker 2 (28:12):
Assume that he meditates at night under the moon to beams.

Speaker 1 (28:15):
It's my understanding that he got called governor Moonbeam because
he wanted to have satellite connections to basically have like
early Zoom, like has oh wow, phone calls for meetings
so that you're not traveling all over the state and
use technology to your benefit. And they were talking about satellite.
So he wants to be moon That's what I've been told.

Speaker 2 (28:35):
Interesting, well, when Reagan was governor of California, it wasn't
a problem to maintain all this like back channel with
the occult. Right. But now once he's going to become president,
this is going to be an issue. Right, But first
decide to even run for president, they have to go
and consult with the occult. Right, So of the Reagan's
they turned to their life coach and personal astrologer. And

(28:56):
you know, rather than me just talk about it, I'd
like to take you there Elizabeth, the fateful decision of
whether or not Ronald Reagan should run for president. Wait, Elizabeth,
I'd like you to close your.

Speaker 1 (29:05):
Eyes as close and picture it.

Speaker 2 (29:09):
It's early in the year in the bis Entennaial of
America nineteen seventy six, and everyone seems to be in
a patriotic mood, well most everyone. At the moment. You
are at a sprawling estate in the Hollywood Hills. The
house is a pillared, beauty, classical, well appointed. It's the
kind of house that has a nickname. The owner calls
it Harmony House. Once a month he hosts fabulous zodiac

(29:30):
themed parties for the Hollywood elite to come and act
out their eyes wide shut fantasies. Elizabeth, you are the
dog groomer for the astrologer to the Stars, Carrol Ryder. Yeah,
and you're currently using scissors and combs to shape the
fur puffs of a pair of French poodles. The one
you're currently trimming is thankfully willing to stand poised and
proud as you snip away across the great room, seated

(29:51):
on a seventeenth century chair, working on an an ornate
desk covered in framed photos of classic stars like Joan
Fontaine and Grace Kelly, Princess of Monaco. Is Carol Writer
wearing a silk smoking jacket. He's working at an old
royal typewriter, working on his astrology column. The quietude is
interrupted by a loud, gonging sound. That's the doorbell to

(30:13):
Harmony House. You hear a butler greet the visitor, and
then from their approaching footsteps you can hear what sounds
like a woman drawing near her high heels are staccato
against the marble tile floor. The butler and a woman
wearing a kerchief and sunglasses, clearly meant to avoid being seen,
enters the great room. The butler announces her, Nancy Davis,
to see you, mister Ryder. You look up from the

(30:36):
French poodle and you nearly spit out your big red
cinnamon gum because you see, despite her kerchief and sunglasses,
that's the first lady at California and you do not
like her. Her husband put a number of your friends
in San Francisco behind bars for minor possession charges. What
is she doing here? You give a look to Carol
Rider to see if you should leave, but with a
graceful hand he suggests you stay and finish grooming his

(30:58):
French poodles. The woman Nancy Davis aka Nancy Reagan greets
the astrologer Carol Rider. They air kiss and exchange pleasantries.
You look away and keep your scissors busy cleaning up
puffs of poodle. Nancy Reagan and Carol Rder huddle at
his desk. You're trying not to listen to their hush tones,
but then Nancy gets a little heated and says, rather loudly,
should Ronnie run for president? You're hoping the stars are

(31:22):
not aligned, but you can't help it. As you listen
to Carol Writer read Nancy and Ronnie's star charts. After
a moment of study of the stars, Carol Writer tells
Nancy the timing isn't right. Nancy does not want to
hear this. She barks back, why must we wait? Why
can't we go now?

Speaker 1 (31:40):
Why?

Speaker 2 (31:40):
Why? Why? This is a direct quote, You think to yourself,
She's like an angry little girl. Carol Writer smooths down
the lapel of his silk smoking jacket, thinks a moment
you wait to hear his reply. Carol Writer tells Nancy
the stars impel. They don't compel. What you make of
your life depends on you. This is not unique advice.

(32:03):
This is actually the disclaimer he adds to his astrology
column in the La Times. You have to fight back
a laugh, but you no longer want to laugh. As
for the next hour, you have to listen as you
groom the two French poodles. Nancy Reagan beg plead, badger,
browbeat and guilty astrologer to telling her what she wants
to hear. You admire how he stays firm and grace

(32:24):
will and unflappable. Finally, he tells Nancy Reagan that she
needs to go, to leave and to think deeply about
what the stars are telling her. She agrees to go,
but she'll contact him soon. Her high heels walk back
to the front door, led by the butler. You hear
the click clack recede into the distance. The front door
opens closes. That's when Carol Ryder finally lets out the

(32:45):
deeply annoyed sigh he's been holding in, and he loudly
exclaims that woman, she wears me out. You can't help it.
You laugh, and he laughs, and the two of you
share a laugh at Nancy Reagan's thirstiness.

Speaker 1 (33:00):
No, two things. Yes, one, I want to live in
that picture. It's amazing. I want that too.

Speaker 2 (33:10):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
Why did she think she could browbeat him to change
the stars?

Speaker 2 (33:15):
I do not get You go to somebody to tell
you what the stars say and you yell at the sky. Yeah,
you gotta just listen. That's what you're going to them for.
Otherwise you can just tell yourself whatever, Why do you
need them involved?

Speaker 1 (33:26):
And it is what it is.

Speaker 2 (33:27):
It's got a fortune cookie and interpret it. Yeah, anyway,
Nancy Reagan, she decided not to listen to her astrologer's advice.
She found a different astrologer who'd tell her what she'd
want to hear, and then she told her husband that
he should indeed run for president in nineteen seventy six.
He was in the stars, He did, and he lost
the primary. Carol Ryder was correct, it.

Speaker 3 (33:49):
Was not at times.

Speaker 2 (33:50):
Well, that may have been not the right moment for
the Reagans. As we all know, they didn't have to
wait long because four years later, in nineteen eighty, Ronald
Reagan ran again for the White House, and that time
the Reagan spoiler alert. Carol Ryder became a frequent guest
at the Reagan White House, which did not play well. However,
by then he was a very old man and he
didn't care. And also he knew he would not outlive
the Reagan's presidency. If you can believe it, Carol Rider

(34:12):
correctly predicted the date of his own death. Really anyway,
Knowing he didn't have long, the astrologer knew he needed
to turn the reins over to another astrologer who could
divine the future for Nancy Reagan. Enter Joanne Quigley. She
was a San Francisco based astrologer. She was raised in
knob Hill. A child of wealth and privilege. She attended Vassar.
She went on to publish books on astrology. She was

(34:34):
also on the talk show circuit. You could find her
on MERV Griffin's show. It was MERV who brought her
to the Reagan's orbit. Yeah, okay, but what do you
think happened on March thirtieth, nineteen eighty one that pushed
Nancy Reagan to seek out an astrologer that she could
count on and depend on for life advice? Is that
when he shot her husband got shot.

Speaker 1 (34:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:52):
Yes, less than three months into his presidency, someone tried
to assassinate Ronald Reagan in order to impress Jodie Foster. Yeah,
nut job. Rightly, he was convinced that if he killed Reagan,
Jody Foster would want to go out with him or something.

Speaker 1 (35:06):
A lot of barriers.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
I got some bad news for you about who Jody
Foster prefers. Anyway, he went through with it. He damn
near killed Reagan. I don't know if you know this,
but how close he came to dying. Yeah, apparently the
press secretary took a note at the time, doctors believe
bleeding to death. Right. He also recorded other diagnostics doctors
had told him in the in the er, they said,
can't find a wound. Think we're going to lose him,

(35:27):
rapid loss of blood pressure, touch and go. Yeah. So
the bullet that hit Reagan left a quote, tiny jagged
slit in Reagan's side, and the doctor didn't notice it.
None of the doctors noticed it until they'd stripped Reagan.
After they cut off his clothes and he was naked
on the gurney, one of them spotted a tiny entry
wound and in that nice you get a picture of
naked Reagan on a gurney. Anyway, thank you, It wasn't

(35:48):
even a doctor who noticed the bullet wound. It was
an intern who had been in Vietnam War, and he
was like, that's a bullet wound, and he pointed it
out and he's like, yeah, there's no exit wounds. Three
hours of surgery later, the surgeons discovered the bullet just
chilling a couple inches away from his heart. The bullet
was in Reagan's left lung. When the president finally came around,
he wrote on a pad, I'm alive, aren't I Right? Then,

(36:09):
when Nancy was finally at his bedside, he joked his
older honey, I forgot to duck. So he joked with
his attending doctors, I hope you all were all Republicans.
Weeks Reagan was back at work in the White House. Yes, yeah, Yet, though,
there was a new error about him, because, as Nancy
Reagan biographer Karen Tumulty wrote that Reagan quote saw a

(36:32):
divine hand in the fact that he had been spared,
which made him more convinced than ever that there was
a purpose at work in his presidency. So now he's
all messianic. He's God's chosen president. Meanwhile, Nancy got deeper
into the occult. So, as her biographer Tumulty wrote, quote,
her astrology was a crutch. Nancy didn't have religion to
fall back on, and Ronald Reagan had a very deep

(36:53):
religious faith. He truly believed God had a plan for him.
But despite his Christian faith, Ronnie was cool with his
wife's love of Ay. As Nancy wrote in her memoir,
Reagan told her, quote, if it makes you feel better,
go ahead and do it. He also cautioned her, but
it might look a little odd if it ever came out. Now,
as the leader of the Free world, he couldn't have
allies and enemies, or the American people believing that an

(37:15):
astrologer was shaping White House policies. Now that was the case.
Elizabeth will take a break, and after this I will
tell you how that eventually came out. All right, Elizabeth,

(37:44):
we're back here. I am there you are. He told
me you'd be here. It okay, Leader of the Free World,
his wife's into the occult. You got to keep this
a secret, right, Nancy's leaning on astrologers to keep her
husband safe from future assassinations. Now, astrology in the White House, right, this,
as I said, mainly started after the assassination. The thing was,
Nancy had been warned about the assassination.

Speaker 1 (38:07):
Really by whom after the fact, her old warned.

Speaker 2 (38:10):
After the fact, her old friend, MERV Griffin contacted her.

Speaker 1 (38:14):
He's like spoiler alerts, and.

Speaker 2 (38:15):
He told her an astrologer had told him that in
the president's chart quote they saw something bad would happen
that day. So apparently they got told. BRV got told beforehand,
Nancy got told anything.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
He was just like sitting in the kaftan in Palm
Springs and like, I slipped my mind to tell her.

Speaker 2 (38:29):
I meant to tell you, but you were busy. So
when she hears Nancy said, with an actor's theatricality, oh
my god, I could have stopped it. So now she's
on a mission, right, So MERV Griffin connects her with
this psychic astrologer's friend of hers, Joan Quiggly, and uh,
this means at this point now the president will be
guided by a San Francisco astrologer who has Nancy's ear right.

(38:51):
Her influence lasted seven years, the whole first term and
all but the last few months of Reagan's second term.
In nineteen eighty eight, the open Secret came out to
the public. You see, Nancy Reagan made an enemy and
he knew the astrology secret. When she came for him,
he struck back at her. Oh and that awesome. So,

(39:11):
in her own words, Nancy Reagan knew that relying on
an astrologer to keep her husband safe and to make
decisions for the America's future and the future you know,
all of the people was not a good idea. She
knew that, right, but she didn't care. Nancy Reagan was like, no,
that is what's good for Nancy Reagan will hopefully be
good for most of the people. Now. She was hooked right.
As she wrote in her autobiography, she said that her

(39:33):
relationship with the astrologer Joanne Quigley quote began as a crutch.
Within a year or two it had become a habit. Oh,
she's like a star chart junkie. This my right, so
her biography or Kitty Kelly, she wrote that quote. Nancy
Reagan relied on Joanne Quigley. She would call her sometimes
eight times a day for almost everything, down to unbelievable details,
including the takeoff and landing times for Air Force One.

(39:54):
That was astrology that charted their way. Nobody knew that
at the time.

Speaker 1 (39:58):
Wait like that, Oh wow, yes, and you know home
girl's sitting there in San Francisco and every time she
takes a call, she's like making a note in the
ledger how many hours this is.

Speaker 2 (40:07):
Also, it was a costly relationship because when you're keeping
that secret, you know, you can charge a gazill right
so quickly.

Speaker 1 (40:14):
She was another thing, I want to do a psyche
powers and then charge up the huha for it.

Speaker 2 (40:19):
She was paid by the hour and had a retainer.
She was like a lawyer. She was kept on retainer
to the tune of three grand a month. That would
be ninety five hundred and twenty twenty four dollars. Nancy
Reagan was sent monthly bills to pay the monthly retainer,
and aedy racked up charges for the month. The bill
obviously was not sent to the White House, but it
was sent to a private zip code that was then
routed to the presidential residence in the White House. But

(40:42):
so it's kind of circumvented. Most of they unwonted oversight. Yeah,
then she had an old friend in California reportedly pay
the astrologers monthly bills on behalf of the President and
the first Lady. That created a layer of removal, and
that way there's no direct evidence. There was no checks
from Nancy Reagon to of San Francisco Astrology. So at
this point, to make sure her husband stayed safe from assassins,

(41:03):
Nancy Reagan would give her private astrologer the president's upcoming schedule.
You know that, Like the Secret Service would have just
lost it, oh completely if they knew. They did not
know that Nancy kept it super hush. So over time,
Nancy came to trust her astrologer's psychic quickly, so much
that she asked her advice on how Reagan should handle
the Soviet Union and nuclear proliferation and the ongoing Cold War.

(41:27):
Of course, her psychic was like, I got you boo,
hand me my star charts. In order for astrologer's prognostications
that have sway over the White House, Nancy had to
find a willing accomplice, right, an insider she could trust
and manipulate and terrify. Right, So she found the perfect accomplice,
this dude named Michael Deaver. He was one of Reagan's
closest advisers, right. He was keen to help her get
away with this. So their influence campaign started first with

(41:50):
managing the president's scheduling. Nancy Reagan's biographer Tomlty documented the
secret partnership. She wrote that quote Deaver would dither and
then insist, for example, that the president and his plane
takeoff for a foreign trip at precisely to eleven am.
He concocted stories to tell the traveling press a pre
dawn takeoff. It was deemed to have been dictated by
medical advice on how to avoid jet lag. So he

(42:12):
was just lying. So meanwhile, Reagan's chief of staff, James Baker,
he was not down with astrology or really any of
the occult so he just pretended none of this was happening,
just exactly like, I don't know what that's that's not
happening over there. Let me look at my watch. Oh
I love my watch. Now he had to wait on
Quigley to tell Nancy when the president could address the nation,

(42:34):
hold a press conference, all sorts of stuff, imagining the
chief of staff at the White House, and you got away.

Speaker 1 (42:39):
All weird times, like the press conference starts at three
forty seven, the.

Speaker 2 (42:43):
Plane leaves it to eleven am exactly, So James Baker
recalled at the time, quote, when we wanted to schedule
a big thing like a press conference, he'd say, let
me take a look at it. Then we figured he
and Nancy would talk about the date. Now it's clear
that they were clearing it all with her with the astrologist.
So he found out way later. That's how much he
was like head in the sand about this. After the
first term, Deaver decides he'd had enough of life in

(43:06):
the White House. He's like, this sucks. So eight nineteen
eighty four, after Reagan's re elected, Deaver begins to prep
his replacement get him to be cool with the whole
astrologer's shadow influence on the White House. Deaver insisted his
replacement be cool with this, so he invites him out
for a drink to kind of like tell him how
it goes. He breaks it to him right. The dude
was quote flabbergasting, and he told him and I quote,

(43:28):
holy Mike, I thought you were a madman. I can't
believe you had to do this. Now now it was
his responsibility, and he took it on. This dude's name
was Bill Hankel, and now he fell under Nancy's powers
of persuasion just the same as Deaver had. Soon enough,
he's keeping her secrets too, no questions about it. All
it took was the strategic confession of her fears. You see,
Nancy confided to him how Reagan's near assassination terrified her

(43:52):
and she would do anything to keep the president safe.
Nancy told him, and I quote Bill, I want you
to understand and feel what it was like. I saw
six doctors with panic in their eyes. My naked husband.
I knew he was dying. So there you go. Nancy
Reagan wants you to feel fear. That's gotta be a
weird moment. And then she uses naked Ronald Reagan to

(44:15):
make you understand fear. That would do it for me.
Do it for me anyway, so that.

Speaker 1 (44:21):
I'm made of stronger stuff?

Speaker 2 (44:23):
Do you have? I worked in two naked Reagan into
the same thing anyway entered Donald Reagan.

Speaker 1 (44:29):
It's like from the waist up.

Speaker 2 (44:30):
Okay, there you go, cartoon mine.

Speaker 1 (44:32):
And it's very like a Kendall smooth.

Speaker 2 (44:35):
From it's okay, oh, I gave like a waxy and place.

Speaker 1 (44:38):
Yeah, so it's just a wax figure.

Speaker 2 (44:41):
So former Treasury Secretary Donald Reagan, he becomes Reagan's new
chief of staff after James Baker's like deuces, and oh boy,
did he hate Nancy Reagan. I just saw Red hated her, right,
and Nancy hated him. So one time, after she'd called
his office for like the three hundred and seventy seventh time,
he barred no one in particular, I'm not the chief

(45:02):
of staff of the first lady. Oh yeah, that kind
of sexist. So Nancy, he liked to say of Donald Reagan, quote,
don thought he was the president. Yeah. So the lines
in the sand were drawn, and it didn't take Nancy
long to figure out what she needed to do, which
is run a White House coup and get rid of
Donald Reagan. So how does she do this? To get
rid of Donald Reagan? She needed something that wouldn't point

(45:23):
back at her. So she's like, I'm Nancy, I can
figure this. Moment she waits, she finds the perfect excuse
in the form of the Iran Contra affair. Oh my god,
she uses that as a spatchelor let to flip him
out of the White House. Yes, when that sordid scandal
broke and rocked to the Reagan White House, Nancy slightly
used all the negative attention to oust Donald Reagan like
it's him. Oh yeah, that's easy, orchestrates his removal. Boom,

(45:45):
he's out. But a man like Donald Reagan, he's not
gonna go quiet. He's gonna remember he waited. Meanwhile, he
wrote a book, and in that book he documented everything
he knew and everything he could allege. And it comes
out in nineteen eighty eight, just in time, well Reagan
still president election year. Donald Reagan made sure that Nancy's
big secret was revealed in a way that it looked

(46:06):
maximally manipulative and conniving. And so for Reagan wrote, and
I quote, virtually every major move and decision that Reagan's
made during my time as White Elf chief of staff
was cleared in advance with a woman in San Francisco
who drew up horoscopes to make certain that the planets
were in a favorable alignment. He also wrote that he

(46:27):
didn't personally know the astrologer's name or her identity. Now
the news of the book hits right, Nancy springs into action.
She contacts her astrologer, and Nancy tells her the any
like busy body reporters come sniffing around her place. The
astrologer is to deny the story. Yeah, and I quote lie.
If you have to just lie, you can't say anything.

(46:48):
So that's her approach. Didn't take long for the reporters
to get to San Francisco. They find the astrologer. Remember,
it's an open secret. So the astrologer psychic was only
too happy to come forward and to tell her side
of the story. She completely ignored.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
Nancy told her to.

Speaker 2 (47:02):
Yeah, exactly is her chance. So she told a reporter
from the Associated Press that she was quote a serious
scientific astrologer. To clarify what that meant, she added, and
I quote, I am really not one of those clowns.
And I really don't like the circus atmosphere. So she's serious,
She's dead serious. Yeah. Anyway, soon enough she had a
book deal, so she cashed in on all that the

(47:24):
circus atmosphere she didn't like. She made it work for
her in the name of the name of a book. Quote,
what does Jones say my seven years as a White
House astrologer to Nancy and Ronald Reagan?

Speaker 1 (47:34):
I kind of want to read that, right.

Speaker 2 (47:35):
So once the story broke and their San Francisco astrologery
is unmasked, the White House had to spring into damage control.
Right Press secretary of the time Marlin Fitzwater, he tried
to contain any damage from the psychic scandal. May fourth,
nineteen eighty eight. He holds a White House press briefing
downplays Donald Reagan's claims quote, it's true that Missus Reagan
has an interest in astrology. She has for some time,

(47:56):
particularly following the assassination attempt in March of nineteen eighty one.
He was very concerned for her husband's welfare, and astrology
has been part of her concern in terms of his activities.
The New York Times also reported that, quote, mister Fitzwater
acknowledged that the President has a superstitious streak. He often
talks and speeches about quote lucky numbers and jokes that
the ghost of Abraham Lincoln resides in the White House. Well, yeah,

(48:17):
so they just wanted to basically connect all the dots.
So Ron reag was eventually asked about this by reporters
and they're like shouting at him because he won't answer
the questions. Eventually he replies, quote no policy or decision
in my mind has ever been influenced by astrology. Okay,
so that raised the question, other than scheduling, what influence
did Quiggly have?

Speaker 1 (48:36):
Like?

Speaker 2 (48:36):
How much influence did this San Francisco psychic really scheduling?
In her nineteen ninety memoir, quickly claimed that she advised
the President not to play it so tough in negotiations
with Mikhail Gorbachev and the Soviet Union. She told Nancy
Reagan that, quote, Ronnie's evil empire attitude has got to go,
so quickly claimed in nineteen eighty six, in the hours

(48:57):
before a summit in Iceland between the Soviet Union and
in the US that focused on nuclear disarmament, quickly read
the star charts of Reagan and Gorbachev, and she told
Nancy Reagan their horoscopes. In a twenty fourteen interview, Quiggily recalled,
I affected the relationship between the superpowers by my reading
of Gorbachev's horoscope. What does she mean by that? Elizabeth Well,

(49:18):
in her own words, quickly told Nancy Reagan, quote, Gorbachev's
aquarian planet is in such harmony with Ronnie's. You'll see
they'll share a vision now. Nancy Reagan reported that to
the White House advisor, specifically, she told Bill Hankel the
good news right She's like, oh, great news, no nuclear
war whatever. Right, So Henkel, he wrote in his autobiography, quote,
she came back saying, these two have by the stars

(49:40):
some good vibes. So I guess the psychic astrology was right,
because the world did get nuclear disarmament. And so there
you go. I admit there was no explicit criminal prosecution
of Nancy, but I said, you know that there was
an alleged criminal scandal run by Nancy Reagan and the
news that Ronald Reagan was secretly being guided by a
San Francisco astrology I mean, you got to admit that's ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (50:02):
Yeah, it's both ridiculous and slightly criminals.

Speaker 2 (50:04):
So what's your ridiculous?

Speaker 1 (50:06):
Oh boy, howdy, I need psychic powers because let's make
it all about me for a second course, as I do,
I need psych I think too that it's fascinating. I'm
not like astrology person. I have you know, close friends
who are and it's like a serious thing for them,

(50:27):
and I respect that.

Speaker 2 (50:29):
I respect anything that the person to get through the deck.

Speaker 1 (50:31):
But you know, you're talking about how he would say
lucky numbers, and there are so many things that we
do that are you know, woo. And you know, even
like the stock market is astrology for bros. You know,
it's like.

Speaker 2 (50:44):
It's like one of those mood rocks for capitalists.

Speaker 1 (50:47):
Totally, so I think, you know, we can't we can't
look too unkindly on it. Plus, I know they got
you know, the psychics, but then you also had like
at that time, like Cheney and Rumsfeld, you know, scooting
around out of that.

Speaker 2 (51:00):
Uh Ford White House going when do we get power?
To get power?

Speaker 1 (51:05):
They were more influential than it. But it's like, Zaren,
what's your ridiculous take?

Speaker 2 (51:10):
It's so refreshing, so naked Ronald Reagan, right. I love
that that Nancy gets that, you know, the thing that
she loves is also the way to make someone taste fear.
Turns me on. But this will make you taste fear.
So there you go. That's mine.

Speaker 1 (51:27):
It's beautiful.

Speaker 2 (51:27):
Oh hey, you in the mood for a talkback?

Speaker 1 (51:29):
I love talkbacks. Let's hear one producing.

Speaker 2 (51:32):
D Oh my god, I love get.

Speaker 1 (51:45):
Hi guys. I'm just listening to the Agatha Christie episode
and I literally spit coffee out when I listened to
elizabeths impersonation of Sean Connery. Love your show. Thanks so
much for all the laughs.

Speaker 2 (51:56):
Nic Yes, thank you guys always, you know, keep those coming.
We did those, and you couldn't always call us on
our hotline that we don't have yet, but you can
find us online at Ridiculous Crime on Twitter and Instagram,
I think, and we have the website ridiculous Crime dot com.
And also we, as I said, love your talkback, so
please give us more of those.

Speaker 1 (52:16):
Call us on the talk back, call us on the.

Speaker 2 (52:18):
Hot back talkback line emails if you want a Ridiculous
Crime at gmail dot com. All right, thanks for listening.
We'll catch you next crime Ye. Ridiculous Crime is hosted
by Elizabeth Dutton and Zaren Burnette, produced and edited by
Tip O'Neil's bartender Dave Kuskin. Research is by Marissa astrologer

(52:42):
to the reality TV stars Brown and Andrea. Just Say
Yes song Sharpened Hear Our theme song is by Thomas Team,
Bonzo Lee and Travis Rockney, all American. Dutton. The host
wardrobe provided by Botany five hundred. Executive producers are Ben
did you know in the White House there's a lane
for Bowlin'? And Noel, I did know that Brown. Ridicous

(53:11):
Crime say It one more time. Piquious Crime Ridiculous Crime
is a production of iHeartRadio. Four more podcasts from my
heart Radio.

Speaker 1 (53:20):
Visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
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