November 9, 2023 • 47 mins
Dinos! Everybody loves them! Everybody wants them! Brazilian dinosaur fossils are particularly desirable…especially to smugglers and crooked scientists. Come with us on a journey of paleontological criminal intrigue and completely butchered Portuguese and German pronunciations. Boom-boom, acka-lacka-lacka, boom!
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Saren Yobe is Saren over here?
Speaker 3 (00:05):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hey, listen, pal, Yes, you know it's ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
That robe you're wearing.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
What?
Speaker 3 (00:12):
Okay? Whatever? I got dressed today? Look, God, somebody did,
Yes I do, Elizabeth, thank you for asking Barbara Ernie.
You ever heard of her?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
No?
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Really, I don't know. Maybe you're in the crime storytelling business.
You've never heard of her. I've never heard of her either.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
So she was a woman from Liechtenstein, and she was
known for being someone who would rob in so kind
of like a highwayman, but she did it like highway
woman style. So she went into the inn and robbed
them there. It's brilliant.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Okay, highway women are doing it for themselves.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Oh dude, you know it now. Her nickname, her street
name was Golden Booze b o o s Okay, yeah,
Golden Booze. So Golden Booze. She was like, you know,
hanging around Lichtenstein, you know, doing her things. This woman
had just apparently striking red blonde hair, and she used
to always travel with this treasure chest or a backpack
(01:00):
either one. So either she had like a traveling chest
or a backpack, and she'd chump in an hand and
she go, I must have my backpack or my travel
chest be locked in the nicest room you have. He's
inside of it is a priceless treasure, and I cannot
have one of these highwaymen possibly or bandits, or is
one of your local thieves stealing it. This is the
seventeen hundred, so like mid eighteenth century, so like yeah,
(01:22):
like seventeen sixties, seventeen fifties, and uh so anyway, so
she's seventeen seventies whatever, you know. So anyway, so she's
sitting there, she was she would stay in the best room,
it's right, not her, her stuff would stay in the
best room. And then she would just stay in some
other room. Meanwhile, inside of her luggage or her trunk
(01:44):
or her backpack was a little person. They would crawl
out of the backpack or out of the trunk. They
would rob the room blind. They would put all the
stuff in the trunk or the backpack with them. Then
they would be handed the backpack or a trunk. The
next morning, part barbora Ernie would bounce out with their
backpack and little man and be gone with a fortune,
(02:05):
and they did this over and over again, and just
she did it so long she got rich off of
doing it. Wow, Yeah she was. She was like a confidence.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Queen for other people, keeping their stuff in this nice room.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Yeah, whatever is in that nice room, I don't know,
like candlestick holders, whatever. They got silver everywhere, they got
gold things everywhere, so grabbing like frames for pictures. I
don't know what they do. They got candlestick holders are
right everywhere. They didn't have electricity. Now many candlestick holders
you had to have in a room. They're all silver
and gold, money sitting on tables exactly. They're taking everything
(02:40):
they can. And they eventually got caught. And the dude
never got caught. She got caught, and then you know
that she had a terrible end.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
But did he ever get out of the suitcase?
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Of course he got in the suitcase.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Maybe that's why they didn't catch him.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Yeah, I know, he's stuck. They we still don't know
his name. We only know her name. Isn't that ridiculous?
Speaker 2 (02:56):
That is genius, so ridiculous, and I love it. You
want to know what else is ridiculous? Stealing something old
one hundred million years old? Why This is Ridiculous Crime,
(03:28):
a podcast about absurd and outrageous caper's heists and cons.
It's always ninety nine percent murder free and one hundred
percent ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Oh you damn right.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Were you into dinosaurs as a kids? Arin?
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Do you see me sitting there? Yes, I was into dining.
I am one of those kids who was into all
of the things. I wanted to be a marine biologist.
I was into dinosaurs, yes, dip a fourth.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
I never got into it beyond thinking that, like the
t rex was pretty cool. Sure, that's about as far
as I went. But you know, there are kids like
you or who can name all sorts of obscure, tongue
twisting kinds of dinos. I wonder what makes dinosaurs so
compelling to kids.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
I think it's the memorization.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Really, I think it's like the real life monster I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
But there's a lot of animals that qualify for me
if you think about it right, and you find kids
to get into a lot of animals. But then the
challenge of all the is you exactly said, it's the
tongue twisting names and being able to know those. It's
like one of your first things you can master as
a little smart kid, you know, as my thought. And
then obviously there's the majesty of these big thunder lizards
or whatever. I mean, that's cool.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Well, I'll tell you, you know what, something I'm just not
comfortable speculating about this, Okay, so I'll just leave it.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Sure, I'm just speculating on myself.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
I know, I'm just messing with you. So dinosaur fossils,
they have been unearthed on every continent on the planet.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Cool.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Speaking of which, I have a challenge for the rude dudes.
Years ago when I say on the planet. Years ago,
my brother and I saw a sort of viral video.
It was like in the early days of viral videos
where a dad is frustrated with something dumb or like
weird that this kid did and he asks him are
you on the planet? And Travis Dutton and I quote
(05:11):
this all the time, but we can't find the original video.
So if this rings a bell, shoot it on over
to us.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Anyway, I just recently did this with he was out
all night with the Grand Marquis, which is a commercial.
It was a line from a commercial that my family
always says, she was out all night with the Grand
marquis not that grand marquee and then they pan over
to a car. It doesn't matter. It's like a So
I know, Zach, I got to show my family. I
was like, what the YouTube has?
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Everybody here's as much more friend are you on the
planet as each other? So dino's are dino bones all
over the planet. Uh, some places have more than others.
The best places to find them are in deserts or
bad lands, you know, dry Texas, Yeah, Texas. So the
best of the locations are North America, Texas, China.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
China is good, Argentina, Brazil, Yeah, particularly rich in fossils
parts of Russia.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Yeah, exactly. One found in Brazil was a carnivorous creature
called the irritator Irritator Challengery. In fact, it was named
after Professor's sister, Professor Challenger from Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's
nineteen twelve novel The Lost World. Yeah, bring it all,
Irritator Challengerry. And then there's Ubii Jara jubatis, what'd you
(06:31):
call me? It's a one hundred and ten million year
old dinosaur fossil that was found in Brazil. Uberi Jara
translates to Lord of the spear or mained lord of
the spear. And it's from Brazil's indigenous Tupi language and
the Latin word for crest. Oh.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Cool.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
And it was believed it was probably a predatory dinosaur,
about four and a half feet from snout to tail,
but only standing thirteen to fourteen inches from shoulder to
the ground. This is a little baby, a long baby.
It was long but little, and it weighed about the
same as like a turkey or a large chicken.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Has weighed the same as that. Yeah, wow, okay, kind of.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Light for such a long way. Uberrajara.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
I always think of lizards being heavier than birds, right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
I don't know why that is. The bird bones, you know,
make it all lightweight. Ubert Jara apparently similar to Indonesia's
standard wing bird of Paradise, which also had really like
exaggerated shoulder feathers used for display. You know, if you're
into that sort of.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Thing, some people like to steal them.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
I couldn't possibly speculate. Researchers thought that studying uberi jara
might help explain why birds like peacocks get their flair
for the dramatic Oh so that goes back in time.
One particular specimen, our Uberijara for the sake of this tail,
had the neck and backbones. This specimen some rib bones,
(07:58):
a complete four limb, and lumps of what's called grave
wax body fats.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Oh yeah, interesting, So basically body fats that congealed in
a way that they were preserved.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Yeah, into this waxy substance. The fossil attracted special attention.
This one had extravagant spikes shooting up off of its shoulders.
It's very like Tina Turner, Grace Jones Thunderdome Yes, as
well as filaments kind of like mammalian fur with the
mane of like whiskery fur running down its back. That's
(08:30):
where it gets that name. So it's a really groundbreaking
discovery to have this kind of fur still preserved. Yeah.
So ubera Jara was removed from the r Repay Basin
in Brazil under unclear circumstances.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
I love those.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
There wasn't a lot of paperwork involved, which is rare.
I also love that because Great Holy Moses, the archaeologists
and the paleontologists, they love their documentation.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Oh they do. It's such a problem for me with them.
I'm like the wear, I don't have the paper paperwork.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
There you go. So uberi Jara went from Brazil to
Germany and size one does, yeah, sort of the reverse migrations.
Specifically the State Museum of Natural History Carl schru SMNK.
There were no legitimate export permits or documentation as to
how it was obtained in the first place. As I
(09:25):
stated SMNK, the museum unbothered. They unveiled Uberi Jara in
the publication Cretaceous Research on December thirteenth, twenty twenty.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
I just got my last issue, right, that was just
it just expired.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
No Brazilian authors, hanky. So the publication presented the specimen
as a newly discovered species that German paleontologists named. The
publication of the paper set off legal, ethical, all these problems,
all this controversy between German paleontologist and the entire Brazilian
(10:02):
scientific community. So Brazil declared that the specimen had been
illegally exported. Cretaceous Research permanently withdrew the Ubera Jara article
in September of twenty twenty one. They're like, you know what,
that's enough. This of course, this puts the specimen in limbo.
No one could do.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
Any research on it, either fish nor foul.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
No so per paleontologist Tastes of Rodriguez from Brazil's Federal
University of Espiritu Santu. When an important fossil is found
and sold, our scientists stop studying them. We are no
longer discovering our own history. The lead author of the
now withdrawn critasous research piece, Robert Smythe. He conducted his
(10:45):
research as a master's student at the University of Portsmouth, England.
He said, quote, up until now, we've been missing half
of the world in terms of the evolution of feathers.
It's just a bit a blank space.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Really, yeah, fill that blank space in yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Blank space, Like the paperwork on that export of old
uber Jar should be right.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Peal, So do a lot of work in a blank space,
Elizabeth exactly. So.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
That same month, the magazine Science published an article highlighting
the different accounts talking about how the specimen was exported.
So as a result of that reporting, the Baden Wurtemberg
Science Ministry launched an investigation dun dund Investigative journalism for
the win so per the withdrawn Cretaceous research article. Uberi
(11:33):
Jara Jubatis was quote brought to Germany along with scientific
samples in nineteen ninety five, and this was done by
SMK paleontologist eb Hard Frey, and that the authorized exporting
of the specimen was granted in February of nineteen ninety
five by the National Department of Mineral Production, and this
(11:54):
gave Frey the go ahead to ship quote two boxes
containing calcerous samples with fossils without any commercial value, with
the main objective to proceed with paleontological studies to the
SMK music.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Sure, so it sounds like they threw a lot of
syllables out some paperwork to make it sound.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Official exactly, And they said, but they said, we have paperwork.
The museum later admitted to the Ministry that it had
made erroneous statements in these in these in these paperwork hoops.
So according to the ministry's probe, the museum wasn't able
to give any record of having obtained proper documentation of
the fossils acquisition and was unable to prove the specimen
(12:33):
was imported before a two thousand and seven German cultural
protection law was put into place. They got nothing. However,
twenty twenty one, the German Ministry told Science the magazine
not just Science written large, just the book SMNK like
hello Science, like just yelling outside.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
By the way, tell Math this too.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
So the German Ministry tells Science that the museum acquired
the specimen in two thousand and nine after it was
imported by a private company in two thousand and six. Also,
Jose Betemar Melo figuroa then now retired official who signed
phrase permit, told Brazilian news portal g One that the
researchers quote also needed authorization from the Ministry of Science
(13:17):
and Technology. So this Brazilian guy signs on it thinking
that this is going to help him get signed off
from a larger Brazilian organization, not that this is going
to help the same in all the country.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
So Frey, in an email to a national geographic said quote,
I am sure we will find a solution, you know sure,
And then he goes on, he goes to tell Science,
we're trying to find a way to solve this in
a fair way, in a way that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
I don't ever believe someone who's saying that to a journalist.
If you're having to say that to a journalist, at
that point, I'm like.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
I don't believe that, and so fair for him. He's
trying to negotiate temporary lease of Uberi Jara to keep
him on display in Germany before returning it to Brazil.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
We want to keep our feathered friend.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Yeah, it's fair for me.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
So Alexander Kellner, who is the director of the National
Museum of Brazil, said, quote, everyone is welcome to study them,
to publish on them, and then give them back, like
they just want Tom back. So Frey feels that even
though he obtained the required documents for the exportation of
these fossils, that the documents only referred to samples that
(14:29):
were unspecified, and so he says they arrived legally, but
we just can't prove it properly.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
You see, there's some ambiguities, but I did not create them.
I'm just living underneath that.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
He's like to sum up, totally legal, totally cool, exactly.
So Kellner, though, the director of the Brazilian Museum, he
says there's no legal exportation of fossils period. He just
doesn't chance right, just start it that way. So then
he says that the only circumstance in which a fossil
could legally leave the country for another to study, would
(15:00):
be as a temporary loan. And so Kellner asks, like,
why is such an incredible fossil but given to Germany
so long ago and we're only now seeing the publication.
So is that because they knew that they got it
under dubious circumstances? He said, quote, it's hard to believe
that any paleontologist would not have recognized the importance of
(15:21):
this specimen and not published it earlier.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Okay, because it is pretty groundbreaking, I.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Remember hugely so. David Martil Martil of University of Portsmouth
in England, said in an email to National Geographic that
he quote would be happy if all the Brazilian fossils
in all of the museums around the world went back
to Brazil.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
But and that but's done a lot of work.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
He thinks that the laws that Brazil has regarding fossil
ownership are a little too strict counterproductive.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
I would love to be able to do that, but
I don't trust Brazil.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
I wish I could imagine it's Brazil, why won't you
give them from them?
Speaker 3 (15:58):
But they don't vow you with the way I think
they should.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
So here's what he says. Because the trade and fossils
was illegal, and because there was potentially big money to
be made from trading them, it became utterly corrupt. That's why, right,
So what are these overly strict and counterproductive laws?
Speaker 3 (16:16):
Are these overly counterproductive laws? Elizabeth well?
Speaker 2 (16:19):
A nineteen forty two Brazilian law says that fossil collecting
within the country requires National Mining Agency permits. It also
says that all fossils that are found belong to the country.
So yeah, okay, standard, No, this is totally standard. A
decree made in nineteen ninety added that the exporting of
fossils must first be approved by Brazil's Ministry of Science,
(16:42):
Technology and Innovation, and then foreign researchers have to collaborate
with a Brazilian institution in any studies.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
Yeah, we want our names with the papers too, rite.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
I don't see how that's overreaching. And then they all
so this is proof that SMNK should have had in hand,
but they couldn't provide. They done broke the law.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Oh, definitely broke the law, and then also did it
in that whole like it's only on paperwork.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Right, fry Frey, He told German newspaper BNN that he
was the only one really involved in this, and then
SMNK scientific director Norbert Lens didn't have anything to do
with it.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
I'm telling you, my boss was totally unaware of what
I was doing in the jungle.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
It was Norbert Lens. He is author of the paper
in Cretaceous research.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
He was totally unaware of everything except for the fact
his name was on the paper.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Totally innocent. But yet he left the museum on his
own volition September thirty twenty two. He's like, look, I'm
out of here.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
I gotta go spend time with somebody else's family.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
But he told BNN that he left and they had
nothing to do with Uberijara. And then Science magazine was like, hey, hey,
can you get a comment? Hey? He was like, I
don't know, he's not here a click. He wouldn't give
a comment.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
Oh really, so Frey, I would say it was about parking,
like they wouldn't give me my parking space, ridiculous, Like.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
It was horrible. Put that in print Martel and Frey.
They started criticizing the way that Brazil cares for their fossils.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
I knew it.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
They see it the same thing always. So they pointed
out that there was a fire in twenty eighteen at
Rio de Janio's Museum Nationale, saying that the fire occurred
because of negligence and ninety two and a half percent
of the archived items in the museum were destroyed in
the fire, out of twenty million items.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
I was Brazil, I'd be like, well, a couple decades ago,
you guys kind of bombed a lot of museums, So
where are we at.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Yeah, one point five million items were stored in a
separate facility and they were spared from the fire. The
museums on a hilltop and the fire hydrants didn't have
enough pressure to get up up the hill the water.
The museum's deputy director, he said the fire was a
result of neglect from successive governments. So he said curators
quote fought with different governments to get adequate resources to
(18:54):
preserve what is now completely destroyed, and that he felt
total dismay and immense anger. So the museum only had
a few fire extinguishers, a smoke detector, no sprinkler system,
and there were a lot of repairs needed at the museum.
Even before the fire.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
We constantly run into this. Museums they always have bad security.
They need updates.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
On this one, peeling paint exposed wiring, and the museum
had tried to address this through crowdfunding, so funds needed
for the museum maintenance hadn't been provided since twenty fourteen.
Indigenous people were livid that the museum wasn't getting funding.
But at the same time, quote, the city had recently
managed to fund a huge budget to build a brand
new Museum of Tomorrow. So the museum celebrated its.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
Two hundred Tomorrow's ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Yes it does. They did it's two hundredth anniversary just
three months before the fire, and at that point it
was partially abandoned and no state officials came to the ceremony,
so it was supposed to be an electrical fire. So
Martil he doubles down and he was like, you know what,
it's a good thing the fossils weren't returned to Brazil
before quote, because now they would all be reduced to
ashes after that magic fire. Elaine Gaillardi, a paleontologist at
(20:04):
the Federal University of Rio Grande Norte, had this to
say in response, quote, Brazil does not take care of
its fossils because the Museum Nationale burned. Okay, what about
Notre Dame. She says, they are trying to neutralize, normalize
a very sick behavior. So Martel then is like, okay,
you know that was a bit and sensitive. He claimed
(20:26):
that he felt it was good to return fossils of
Brazilian origin back to their home and to help rebuild
the museum and its collections.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
I can't believe dropped all so good.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Well, I realized that the following might seem inflammatory, but
the inescapable fact is that so many fossils were removed
from Brazil in the nineteen seventies, nineteen eighties, and first
half of the nineteen nineties. So he's like, okay, it
happened before.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Kenny's say upsetting instead of inflammatory. I mean, this guy's
just he's just not it.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Let's take a dino break. When we come back, I'll
tell you about an investigation with a super sick radical name.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
Yeah Brah.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Hello, Hello, Hello, welcome, Hey Uberi Jara. You know that
uber Jar isn't the only fossil to be smuggled out
of Brazil. No, No, In fact, dino bone smuggling has
been a big operation there for some time.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Yes, from what I understand from the news, Yes, so
much so.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
That the government had a whole investigation surrounding the illicit
bone trade. Really yeah, Operation Santana Raptor.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
I like this.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Yeah, it's named for the Santana raptor. All one word,
the Santana raptor, which was discovered by our old pal
Alexander Kellner of the director of the museum.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Were not the musician Santana, No, how much more fun
would be.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
He discovered its Santana found dinosaur bones, just named it.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
Yeah, and he's like, this is the Santana Raptor. Well,
this Rob Thomas and I discovered this on old walk.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Go on. This Santana raptor is a small Tyranna sarah
royd Tyranna tyranna what enough Tyranna sauroid tyrannaceroid. I'm sounded out.
This is why I'm t rex is cool, theropod dinosaur
And if that means anything to you, congratulations. But it
(22:38):
kind of looks like a cute little t rex hands.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
So the investigation on Operation Santana Raptor is something different.
This all came about after a tip to local authorities
in twenty seventeen about the illegal exporting, uh and trading
of fossils from the area of Nova Olinda and Santana
do Karili. You know those places.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
Of course.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
A fossil trafficking network was then discovered in Siattra, northeastern
state of Brazil. If you say so, totally Brazilians. Don't
even try coming at me. I know I'm messing everything up.
So this has been going on under the radar for decades.
Portuguese to leave me alone. I know I'm a mess up.
(23:25):
Operations Santana Raptor launched in late October of twenty twenty
in a northern region of Brazil, which one Chapata Dori
let it roll, I got it wrong, REPIRIPI left a
syllable out.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
Okay, right, I think that the locals will be impressed
so hard good.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
I'm just not good in it.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
Tongue doesn't make these sounds.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
No, and I'm just not good enough for like Brazil
level operations. The area super rich with fossils, just bustling
with fossils, just foss Of the fifty species of pterosaurs
described in the world, twenty three were identified in the
AAR Ripi Plateau. Damn. Yeah, twenty three fifty put some
(24:08):
respect on a Brazilian federal police. They got nineteen search
warrants after the like on this sting for traffickers. That
was really nothing, though, because the area is so huge,
It's six times larger than South palo and they just
couldn't get a handle on the magnitude of the operation.
So fossil trafficking doesn't get a whole lot of attention,
(24:31):
Nicholas Cage. The drug trade is more immediate and sexyh
of course, you know. It does, however, have super high
profits for the smugglers, so despite the laws and the
special operations, the risk totally worth it.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
Also way fewer guns.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Yeah, well, we would hope you're less.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Likely to be killed by a dinosaur hunter.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Clunked over the headna you never hear about like dino
bone cartels.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
There's a lot of reasons to listen am I wrong.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Operations Santana Raptor focused on businessmen, civil servants and middlemen
involved in the illegal trading of rare fossils. And you
didn't have to be a palaeontologist to discover fossils in
this area. Pieces of archaeological value, which is super easy
to find, you like, trip over it, like.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Rock climbers are finding them, and it's jungle guides well.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
And it's especially true in limestone extraction.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Oh yes, definitely the watch so yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
The rare fossils end up in the hands of the
workers as they're you know, cutting out the limestone, and
those workers learned to identify, you know, when they found
a really good one. So quote many years ago, there
were always people who sold it, but not now. Everything
has changed. No one sells it anymore. Now. We always
find it and donate it to the company's warehouse, where
university students come and the boss delivers it for their studies.
(25:48):
Says jose gomas La Casta, a stonecutter.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
I believe them.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
I believe him, although I don't believe a warehouse. Hey,
I just put him in the company warehouse.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
I believe that what he wants to be. To belief.
Why not.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
It's more fun these limestone quarries, right, they're kicking out
all these dino bones. There are almost a hundred of
them in this region.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Quarries.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Yeah, and so, one researcher said, quote as a rule,
laminated limestone workers do not earn well, so anything that
appears that can supplement their income is a reason for
joy for them. However, it's a loss to Brazilian heritage.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
I hope that the company would at least credit them
with some kind of bonus. The dinosaur bone they put
their name on it, like, oh, this is the hose.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
They're not going to do that unless the company's making line.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Sure, I know, but the company whatever.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Yeah, I know. Remember, where there are people, there is crime,
and so fossils are not always delivered to the right people.
Even a professor at the Federal University of Rio de
jan Nio was under investigations. He allegedly paid bribes on
a monthly basis to local quarry workers who were digging
(26:55):
this stuff up illegally.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
He was paying monthly bribes. He's chiefs, brave diggers, like
give me the goodbyes.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
You get them on retainer.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
Yeah, I got like six guys, seven guys over there.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Local police chief Alan Robson. Alexandrino Ramos said, quote, the
quarry workers and the middlemen were in close contact with
the professor, who funded regular expeditions. When you find a fossil,
the correct procedure is to contact the National Mining Agency
and let them know. Yeah, but these guys come on
and there are they going to pay you?
Speaker 3 (27:23):
No, we're also not supposed to speed when we drive exactly.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
So, crime syndicates have been illegally smuggling fossils from Siattra,
where Chapada du Aripe is located.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
So actually the syndicates get involved, it's not just random
professors going off to the only Hinti person they know.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Then we're into the cartel at all. There we go
and buyers are found throughout the US, Europe, Japan. Between
nineteen ninety eight and two thousand and eight, over thirty
two thousand fossils have been seized by officials in Seattle.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Did you say thirty two thousand, thirty.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Two thousand fossils in ten years?
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Full fossil, not just bones. Lie.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
The government was working to stop the fossils from leaving Brazil.
But what about the ones that are already out there?
Speaker 3 (28:05):
What about them, Elizabeth?
Speaker 2 (28:06):
I'll tell you something. Palaeontologists love to dig, and they
love to us seek out the truth that's hiding in
places often overlooked. If you have a mystery, I feel
like a paleontologist is a good resource to have, do
you think so. Yeah, And since the illegal fossil trade
isn't as flashy and attention grabbing as other illicit trades,
the paleontologists they often have to track this stuff down themselves.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Oh yeah, they're like beneath the like wild animal smugglers.
They're like, can we get some atten? Ours are dead,
but can we get some attention?
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Listen? Zaren, Yeah, close your eyes. Oh yes, I want
you to picture it. It's twenty nineteen. You are previously
mentioned badass paleontologist Tesa Rodriguez of Brazil's Federal University of
Espiritu Santo.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
Look at me.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
There it is there. You are typing away at your
computer doing one of your special investigations. You finish off
your latte, sucking in the last of the coffee at
the bottom of the cup through a straw. It's been
a long day. You have other stuff to do, but
this is more important. You're on the hunt. There's a
knock at your office door. Come back later, you call.
(29:12):
You take a deep breath and you click through some
web pages. Then you spot it. You're on eBay. You
are looking for fossils, fossils that should be in Brazil
and not up for auction by some clown. And you
see one, an incredible one. It's almost an entire skeleton
of a pterosaur, a wingspan of about thirteen feet. You
(29:33):
know this piece. It's from the Araripe plateau, and you
know that it was smuggled out of Brazil between nineteen
eighty and nineteen ninety, which predates Operation Santana raptor where
is it now? France? And they are asking two hundred
and fifty thousand dollars for it?
Speaker 3 (29:51):
Have they lost their ever love it?
Speaker 2 (29:53):
You know, it's worth at least twice that you ring
up your contact at the Federal Public Ministry of Brazil.
While the phone rings, you print up the listing for
the fossil in case they delete the sale got them.
When you tell your contact, you email her the link
to the listing and you wait time to bring this
baby home. I think it's amazing that while the paleontologists
(30:14):
are underfunded and underrecognized in Brazil, they are undeterred badasses.
You're a badass erin so the company that owned the
terosaur initially presented a document to the French court that
supposedly proved the legality of their possession of the fossil,
but evidence that was gathered by the Federal Public Ministry
(30:34):
in Brazil showed that that documentation was false forgeries. So
the French authorities were called in. They went to the
company and they searched and seized the terosaur quote in
a container that was transporting courts. They found hundreds of
fossils from all over the world, said Raphael Rayol, the
prosecutor responsible for the investigation. They discovered the existence of
(30:57):
another forty five fossils, which included sea turtles, arachnids, fish, reptiles, insects, plants,
all of them millions of years old in this supposed
container of quartz quote. There are many stores that sell
fossils in the USA and Europe. It's a reasonably common sale,
said Taysa you Saren. She also said that the repatriation
(31:20):
of fossils is usually hard and that the case in
question is exceptional. Good job, taysen Z. So when they
got back to Brazil, the recovered pieces became part of
the collection of the Museum of Paleontology at the Regional
University of Kaririri, and that houses about eleven thousand fossils there.
(31:41):
Operation Santana Raptor, though, wasn't the only investigation into these crimes.
There was Operation Cardoom in April of twenty thirteen, and
in that case, the government was seeking to retrieve known
fossils and found them at a guy's house and he
was selling them to craft stores.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
Oh like a Michael's.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Maybe Michael's hobby lobby. No hate mail hob no hobby lobby.
There was Operation.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
Munich later that year that articaprio totally.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
It was directed by Steven Steele, so that one recovered
semi precious stones and fossils, and the government had seven
arrest warrants, nine search warrants all across Brazil, somewhere in stores,
somewhere in warehouses, and more than two thousand fossils and artifacts.
We received a lot.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
I've got to believe one of these investigations is going
to lead to Nicholas Cage's house.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
I mean, I mean, well, how about Operation Flintstones.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
Are you kidding?
Speaker 2 (32:38):
No, I'm not kidding. It's an amazing name. That's top
shelf right there.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
Oh yeah, top shelf cuties.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Yeah. August twenty fifteen, this operation went full flintstones and
recovered stolen fossils and artifacts from caves across Brazil. Yes, yes,
so there were some frequent flyers in this group of
captured crooks. One of them was a German geologist named
Michael Lothar Schwickert. He was busted twice by the federal police.
(33:05):
He answered two police inquiries, but then he was released
and just dipped out of Brazil, just left the country.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
His middle name of Lothar, that's one of those names
that sticks with me because of the old snl skit
of a loath Ar, of the who people see. This
is what happened to one line.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
According to a researcher at the Paleontology Laboratory at the
University of Kariri, Lothar is quote a customary seller of
fossils from Chippata du al a ripe to collectors, researchers,
universities and museums around the world.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
So he just breezes and buys up some stolen dinosaur bones,
goes to Hong Kong, sells them for top.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Dollars exactly, and Lothar very familiar with the fossil basin,
the Alaripe fossil base, more than most this researcher Alamo
Saraiva called him quote a great fossil prepare the best
I've ever seen. He's a specialist in quote cutting cut
edystone taken from the laminated limestone.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
She was really good at cutting limestone.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
He's a great limestone top shelf. Twenty seventeen, three tourists
were arrested in the Act. They were carrying a fossil
each in their hand luggage and the airport X ray
caught their loop. They're like, why do you have a
big lady, lady? They said they didn't know that smuggling
fossils was a crime.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
Is not legal.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
I thought this was fine.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
I thought it's like, if you can lift it, you
can take it exactly.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Let's take a break and when we come back, we'll
talk about how we got here in the first place.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
So Zarin, Yes, I was just trying to measure these
dinosaur bones to see if they'd fit in my overhead bag.
So I think they will.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
I'm in luck, perfect perfect. Just make sure you wrap
them in enough stuff so they don't get.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
I should probably not have these be checked, otherwise they're
gonna go through X ray. Darn perfect.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
So we got us some smugglers looting Brazilian land.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
For fossils, dinosaurs, smuggler blues, and.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
They're almost always smuggled out, generally to Europe. The US
scientists tend to stick to the stuff unearthed on homes.
We got plenty, and the Japanese are sticklers for proper paperwork.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
And provenas oh I could see that.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
So what gives right? Colonization It all started there, not
that old bugaboo. So back in the day, imperial powers
took fossils from their colonies to their homes for study
and to place on exhibits.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
And not just fossils Elizabeth, Well, that's a whole other
It was kind of a colonial mindset we take and
we take home.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Yeah, so the practice indoors. There's a researcher, doctor Raja Shub,
a paleontologist from the Erlingen Nuremberg University in Germany. Quote. Now,
what is happening is parachute science, where scientists from the
richer countries go to poorer countries, collect fossils and information
(36:21):
and then take them to their institutions where they study them.
There isn't an exchange of knowledge with local researchers similar
to what happened during the colonial era.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
Yeah, it's kind of like you know when they offer people,
we're not going to pay you, We're going to give
you free exposure. Oh my god, they're giving the country
free exposure, like we're going to let everyone know we
got the bones here. It's cool, it's cool.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Well, many paleontologists they take these natural resources, they don't
leave anything behind, and that takes away from local knowledge
and educational training.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
But they oh, we taught them how to dig, and
we taught them the skills, so now they can do
this too.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Raja Shub elaborates quote the fact that paleontologists are not
trained to think about ethics and laws in general. His
created a black market for scientists. So this is why
you can't just have STEM. You have to have a
full liberal arts education, so you take like an ethics slash. Yeah. So,
Raja Shube is one of seven paleontologists who study parachute science.
(37:15):
According to Science Friday, quote, parachute science is a term
describing how researchers sometimes drop down from an ivory tower
into in the wealthy Western world, into a foreign community
for field work. They gather their data and then they
zip off home without engaging with or acknowledging the contributions
of the local researchers in that community. Parachute science totally.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
So you say science Friday, Yeah, yeah, so good, Ira,
I love it.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Despite the fact that the richest fossil sites in the
world are in developing countries, over the last thirty years,
ninety seven percent of fossil data has been produced by
scientists in wealthy countries. Raja Shube notes, quote our finding
show that colonial history and economics influence patterns that weber
in paleontology. To see it so clearly through the data
(38:03):
was the biggest surprise for everyone. So the US is
the country who studies the most fossils, but like I said,
the studies show that the US is also the country
who studied fossils that were collected from home.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
Yeah, we get hih on our own supplies totally.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
Germany, the UK and France are next on the list
of top fossil investigators, but they're also the top countries
for exploitation of scientific resources in third world countries and
they ice out the locals too. This is what doctor
Raja Schub said, quote. I think that researchers from the
whole world, especially the ones from the richest countries, should
(38:36):
think about the consequences of not being committed to local
communities and to a country's researchers when they're researching abroad.
Juan Carlos is Naros of Brazil's Federal University of Piaui explains, quote,
there is an enormous asymmetry in archaeology. This problem is
discussed in museums too, but in paleontology it's taboo. We
(38:57):
have to talk about this because it exists, not sweep
it under the rug. And then he explains the importance
of place. Paleontology is a science that depends a lot
on the context of where everything is found. If you
find a dinosaur in Brazil, you won't just excavate that dinosaur.
You will see everything around it, fossils of other species,
where it came from, from what level. When you get
(39:18):
a fossil on the black market, all of that is lost.
Sometimes the fossils have even been adulterated. That information gets
lost and it can't be recovered. It's bad science.
Speaker 3 (39:28):
It's interesting how many times all these stories ultimately come down.
Every simple question is if we can only get the
adults to learn how to share right.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Another mark on the scientific community is blood amber. Oh yeah, yeah,
So fossils trapped in amber a beautifully preserved see Jurassic Park.
But like blood diamonds, a lot of that amber is
gathered and sold to fund violent conflicts in other countries.
The Society for of Vertebrate Paleontology, which is the largest
(39:57):
body of professional paleontologists in the world, they called for
a moratorium in April of twenty twenty on the publication
of fossils that might have been sold to fuel the
genocide Myanmar. Oh wow, So the mines where amber fossils
are found are all controlled by Myanmar military, and it's
they who've committed acts of genocide against the country's Muslim
(40:20):
Rohinga people.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
Oh, it's like a wildlife smuggling or narco trafficking. You're
going to find disproportionately crime in.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Those businesses, exactly. And so by selling the amber for
a high price, the researchers are essentially funding genocide. So
while so much can be learned about us today and
our future on the planet by studying dinosaurs and other fossils,
it's not the stuffy, pure pursuit. It may seem you know,
not at all, and there are, like anything we do, consequences.
(40:47):
But zaren, Yes, Elizabeth Zaren, what of Uberijara? Ah?
Speaker 3 (40:52):
How many times do I say that to myself every.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Morning when you wake up. July nineteenth, twenty twenty two,
Germany announced that the specimen would be returned to Brazil.
Speaker 3 (41:01):
Yeah, raise up.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Teresia Bauer, who leads the Ministry of Science, Research and
Arts for the German state of Baden Wurtenberg, told Science
magazine not just science in general. Quote, we have a
clear stance. If there are objects in the collections of
our museums that were acquired under legally or ethically unacceptable conditions,
we will return them. It is important that with the
(41:24):
return we send a clear signal about the correct handling
of collection items they're provenas and scientific honesty. Yes, and
also it stands to.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
Take if you think, and you're in the business of paleontology,
and you think there's these other paleontologists across the pond
who aren't as good or don't have as the standards
you have, maybe help them with the standards as opposed
to going we've taken all their stuff.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
Yeah, exactly, just to hear what you're.
Speaker 3 (41:47):
Doing, Like try to once again, you'll hear me say
this often share knowledge or information, share what you know,
and then go hey, let's all share these bones that
we all are standing on top of.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
Well, if we really believe that it's to advance humanity.
Speaker 3 (41:59):
Yes, you know, there was no Brazil for dinosaurs, and
there was no Germany, so they would be like, I
don't know what y'all talking about, right, Well.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
It's all just one thing, doctor Frey. He retired in
early twenty twenty two and told Science he wasn't allowed.
Speaker 3 (42:15):
To comment on the story, just the whole field.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
Yeah, he was like, hello, Science, But Bauer told German
newspaper BNN that the whole thing was scientific misconduct. At
the same time, neither the German Ministry nor SMNK took
disciplinary action against any of the researchers involved.
Speaker 3 (42:33):
Seems to be very common in these stories when there's
not enough like blood or money, it's like and nothing
was done.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Nothing was done. So remember Allen Gilardi, the paleontologist at
the Federal University of Rio Grande. Did d nortek about it?
Forget her, No tre Dame Todm. She was the girl
She said of the return, quote, I am happy with
the outcome. We have taken another step towards the real
twenty first century science, which is getting rid and slowly
(43:00):
of colonialist ties and biases.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
Amen. Amen, I'll be over here dropping mics at this
mic club.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
So Germany's decision to return uberi Jara is seen as
a sort of victory against colonialism in the scientific community.
Speaker 3 (43:15):
Good Germany.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
Gilardi also said, quote European museums will not and should
not be emptied. Fair exchanges and collaborations can be made
so that everyone can share in the benefits that fossils
can offer.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
There's that word, bring it on share not just a
pop star.
Speaker 2 (43:32):
Smn CA says they're going to examine how it acquired
other fossils in the collection. Palaeontologist Felipe Pinero fought hard
for the return of the uberi Jara to Brazil. He
had a hashtag xeren serious, hashtagbri Jara belongs to br
and look what he did hashtag in a dreams to
(43:54):
his credit. So as to the Germans hanging on to
some forty other Brazil based fossils, Pinner had this to say, quote,
we got new hashtags coming because a Brazilian researcher. I
am immensely happy that the specimen is going home. I
am glad this means that a few dozen other invaluable
specimens are likely to make company to Ubijara and return home.
Speaker 3 (44:14):
It's kind of weird how they have to be graceful
about gang. Can we have our stuff back?
Speaker 2 (44:18):
Right?
Speaker 3 (44:18):
Because if they're not graceful, they won't get it back. Well,
look at them, they're being jerks to us. You just
took their stuff. Like imagine if I wented someone's, you know,
some really rich home and I took like, I don't
know all their like they're heirloom silver, right, their silver
set from great great Greek grandma. And I'm like, yeah,
but I thought you guys weren't using it and you
weren't taking care of it. So I took it. And
(44:39):
I'm showing that all my people and how nice silverware
used to be. We all love. It's important to us.
They're like, could we have it back? I'm like, you
seem to be mad. Don't yell at me. If you
keep coming at me like that, you're never seeing this again.
You guys will know not to appreciate your silverware.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
That's what they're saying, that's totally Is that your ridiculous
take away? It could be it is it is, that's beautiful.
Speaker 3 (44:58):
What's your ridiculous take away? Lizabeth? I did that, just.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
Smoothed, easy boom, easy breezy.
Speaker 3 (45:03):
And that's some time. Go on, what's yours?
Speaker 2 (45:06):
I think you know? Akin to that? I feel like
it's maddening that, you know, this control that gets exerted
over these things, and this notion of knowing what's best
for others. Yes, and well you can't take care of
your stuff managers with fire, Yeah, come on, and you know,
if you're all in this together, And like you were saying,
the dinosaurs didn't know one country from the other because
(45:27):
they weren't, wouldn't you scientists as scientists reach out and
like how can I help you? Rather than turning your
nose up at it? But you know, again, it's this
colonial mindset.
Speaker 3 (45:37):
And also I mean it's and I joked earlier about
like can't we get the adults to learn how to share?
But it is like very much not just a children's thing.
Is that it says whole like mine, but I want
it If I can't have it, I'm taking the ball home.
It's all the stuff you see children do, we see
adults do. They just do it on paperwork and with
press announcements. But it's the same thing.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
Well, it's you know, because of the power that they hold,
they feel they don't have to share, but you demonstrate
larger power by sharing, exactly.
Speaker 3 (46:02):
And it's a greater gift to give yourself.
Speaker 2 (46:04):
Isn't it though? I know because you know what sharing is. Karen.
That's it for today. You can find us online at
ridiculous Crime dot com. We're also at Ridiculous Crime on
both Twitter and Instagram, and you can email ridiculous Crime
at gmail dot com at your own risk, and you
can leave a talkback on the iHeart app reach out.
(46:26):
And that's it. Ridiculous Crime is hosted by Elizabeth Dutton
and Zarren Burnett, produced and edited by David Saurus Kustin.
Research is by Marissa Velociraptor to the Stars Brown and
Andrea Cutest Little Papasaurus song Sharpened Tear. The theme song
(46:47):
is by reanimated iguana Don Thomas Lee and renowned Brontosaurus
burger chef Travis Dutton. Executive producers are Ben Give Chile,
The Miladawn remains Bowlin and Noel Rich it turns Zambia's
broken hill skull immediately, or I will rain down hell
fire upon you Brown. Ridicous Crime.
Speaker 3 (47:13):
Say it one more time, Ridiquious Crime.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio four more podcasts
My heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Saren Yobe is Saren over here?
Speaker 3 (00:05):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hey, listen, pal, Yes, you know it's ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
That robe you're wearing.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
What?
Speaker 3 (00:12):
Okay? Whatever? I got dressed today? Look, God, somebody did,
Yes I do, Elizabeth, thank you for asking Barbara Ernie.
You ever heard of her?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
No?
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Really, I don't know. Maybe you're in the crime storytelling business.
You've never heard of her. I've never heard of her either.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
So she was a woman from Liechtenstein, and she was
known for being someone who would rob in so kind
of like a highwayman, but she did it like highway
woman style. So she went into the inn and robbed
them there. It's brilliant.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Okay, highway women are doing it for themselves.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Oh dude, you know it now. Her nickname, her street
name was Golden Booze b o o s Okay, yeah,
Golden Booze. So Golden Booze. She was like, you know,
hanging around Lichtenstein, you know, doing her things. This woman
had just apparently striking red blonde hair, and she used
to always travel with this treasure chest or a backpack
(01:00):
either one. So either she had like a traveling chest
or a backpack, and she'd chump in an hand and
she go, I must have my backpack or my travel
chest be locked in the nicest room you have. He's
inside of it is a priceless treasure, and I cannot
have one of these highwaymen possibly or bandits, or is
one of your local thieves stealing it. This is the
seventeen hundred, so like mid eighteenth century, so like yeah,
(01:22):
like seventeen sixties, seventeen fifties, and uh so anyway, so
she's seventeen seventies whatever, you know. So anyway, so she's
sitting there, she was she would stay in the best room,
it's right, not her, her stuff would stay in the
best room. And then she would just stay in some
other room. Meanwhile, inside of her luggage or her trunk
(01:44):
or her backpack was a little person. They would crawl
out of the backpack or out of the trunk. They
would rob the room blind. They would put all the
stuff in the trunk or the backpack with them. Then
they would be handed the backpack or a trunk. The
next morning, part barbora Ernie would bounce out with their
backpack and little man and be gone with a fortune,
(02:05):
and they did this over and over again, and just
she did it so long she got rich off of
doing it. Wow, Yeah she was. She was like a confidence.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Queen for other people, keeping their stuff in this nice room.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Yeah, whatever is in that nice room, I don't know,
like candlestick holders, whatever. They got silver everywhere, they got
gold things everywhere, so grabbing like frames for pictures. I
don't know what they do. They got candlestick holders are
right everywhere. They didn't have electricity. Now many candlestick holders
you had to have in a room. They're all silver
and gold, money sitting on tables exactly. They're taking everything
(02:40):
they can. And they eventually got caught. And the dude
never got caught. She got caught, and then you know
that she had a terrible end.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
But did he ever get out of the suitcase?
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Of course he got in the suitcase.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Maybe that's why they didn't catch him.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Yeah, I know, he's stuck. They we still don't know
his name. We only know her name. Isn't that ridiculous?
Speaker 2 (02:56):
That is genius, so ridiculous, and I love it. You
want to know what else is ridiculous? Stealing something old
one hundred million years old? Why This is Ridiculous Crime,
(03:28):
a podcast about absurd and outrageous caper's heists and cons.
It's always ninety nine percent murder free and one hundred
percent ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Oh you damn right.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Were you into dinosaurs as a kids? Arin?
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Do you see me sitting there? Yes, I was into dining.
I am one of those kids who was into all
of the things. I wanted to be a marine biologist.
I was into dinosaurs, yes, dip a fourth.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
I never got into it beyond thinking that, like the
t rex was pretty cool. Sure, that's about as far
as I went. But you know, there are kids like
you or who can name all sorts of obscure, tongue
twisting kinds of dinos. I wonder what makes dinosaurs so
compelling to kids.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
I think it's the memorization.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Really, I think it's like the real life monster I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
But there's a lot of animals that qualify for me
if you think about it right, and you find kids
to get into a lot of animals. But then the
challenge of all the is you exactly said, it's the
tongue twisting names and being able to know those. It's
like one of your first things you can master as
a little smart kid, you know, as my thought. And
then obviously there's the majesty of these big thunder lizards
or whatever. I mean, that's cool.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Well, I'll tell you, you know what, something I'm just not
comfortable speculating about this, Okay, so I'll just leave it.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Sure, I'm just speculating on myself.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
I know, I'm just messing with you. So dinosaur fossils,
they have been unearthed on every continent on the planet.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Cool.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Speaking of which, I have a challenge for the rude dudes.
Years ago when I say on the planet. Years ago,
my brother and I saw a sort of viral video.
It was like in the early days of viral videos
where a dad is frustrated with something dumb or like
weird that this kid did and he asks him are
you on the planet? And Travis Dutton and I quote
(05:11):
this all the time, but we can't find the original video.
So if this rings a bell, shoot it on over
to us.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Anyway, I just recently did this with he was out
all night with the Grand Marquis, which is a commercial.
It was a line from a commercial that my family
always says, she was out all night with the Grand
marquis not that grand marquee and then they pan over
to a car. It doesn't matter. It's like a So
I know, Zach, I got to show my family. I
was like, what the YouTube has?
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Everybody here's as much more friend are you on the
planet as each other? So dino's are dino bones all
over the planet. Uh, some places have more than others.
The best places to find them are in deserts or
bad lands, you know, dry Texas, Yeah, Texas. So the
best of the locations are North America, Texas, China.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
China is good, Argentina, Brazil, Yeah, particularly rich in fossils
parts of Russia.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Yeah, exactly. One found in Brazil was a carnivorous creature
called the irritator Irritator Challengery. In fact, it was named
after Professor's sister, Professor Challenger from Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's
nineteen twelve novel The Lost World. Yeah, bring it all,
Irritator Challengerry. And then there's Ubii Jara jubatis, what'd you
(06:31):
call me? It's a one hundred and ten million year
old dinosaur fossil that was found in Brazil. Uberi Jara
translates to Lord of the spear or mained lord of
the spear. And it's from Brazil's indigenous Tupi language and
the Latin word for crest. Oh.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Cool.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
And it was believed it was probably a predatory dinosaur,
about four and a half feet from snout to tail,
but only standing thirteen to fourteen inches from shoulder to
the ground. This is a little baby, a long baby.
It was long but little, and it weighed about the
same as like a turkey or a large chicken.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Has weighed the same as that. Yeah, wow, okay, kind of.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Light for such a long way. Uberrajara.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
I always think of lizards being heavier than birds, right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
I don't know why that is. The bird bones, you know,
make it all lightweight. Ubert Jara apparently similar to Indonesia's
standard wing bird of Paradise, which also had really like
exaggerated shoulder feathers used for display. You know, if you're
into that sort of.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Thing, some people like to steal them.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
I couldn't possibly speculate. Researchers thought that studying uberi jara
might help explain why birds like peacocks get their flair
for the dramatic Oh so that goes back in time.
One particular specimen, our Uberijara for the sake of this tail,
had the neck and backbones. This specimen some rib bones,
(07:58):
a complete four limb, and lumps of what's called grave
wax body fats.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Oh yeah, interesting, So basically body fats that congealed in
a way that they were preserved.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Yeah, into this waxy substance. The fossil attracted special attention.
This one had extravagant spikes shooting up off of its shoulders.
It's very like Tina Turner, Grace Jones Thunderdome Yes, as
well as filaments kind of like mammalian fur with the
mane of like whiskery fur running down its back. That's
(08:30):
where it gets that name. So it's a really groundbreaking
discovery to have this kind of fur still preserved. Yeah.
So ubera Jara was removed from the r Repay Basin
in Brazil under unclear circumstances.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
I love those.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
There wasn't a lot of paperwork involved, which is rare.
I also love that because Great Holy Moses, the archaeologists
and the paleontologists, they love their documentation.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Oh they do. It's such a problem for me with them.
I'm like the wear, I don't have the paper paperwork.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
There you go. So uberi Jara went from Brazil to
Germany and size one does, yeah, sort of the reverse migrations.
Specifically the State Museum of Natural History Carl schru SMNK.
There were no legitimate export permits or documentation as to
how it was obtained in the first place. As I
(09:25):
stated SMNK, the museum unbothered. They unveiled Uberi Jara in
the publication Cretaceous Research on December thirteenth, twenty twenty.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
I just got my last issue, right, that was just
it just expired.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
No Brazilian authors, hanky. So the publication presented the specimen
as a newly discovered species that German paleontologists named. The
publication of the paper set off legal, ethical, all these problems,
all this controversy between German paleontologist and the entire Brazilian
(10:02):
scientific community. So Brazil declared that the specimen had been
illegally exported. Cretaceous Research permanently withdrew the Ubera Jara article
in September of twenty twenty one. They're like, you know what,
that's enough. This of course, this puts the specimen in limbo.
No one could do.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
Any research on it, either fish nor foul.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
No so per paleontologist Tastes of Rodriguez from Brazil's Federal
University of Espiritu Santu. When an important fossil is found
and sold, our scientists stop studying them. We are no
longer discovering our own history. The lead author of the
now withdrawn critasous research piece, Robert Smythe. He conducted his
(10:45):
research as a master's student at the University of Portsmouth, England.
He said, quote, up until now, we've been missing half
of the world in terms of the evolution of feathers.
It's just a bit a blank space.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Really, yeah, fill that blank space in yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Blank space, Like the paperwork on that export of old
uber Jar should be right.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Peal, So do a lot of work in a blank space,
Elizabeth exactly. So.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
That same month, the magazine Science published an article highlighting
the different accounts talking about how the specimen was exported.
So as a result of that reporting, the Baden Wurtemberg
Science Ministry launched an investigation dun dund Investigative journalism for
the win so per the withdrawn Cretaceous research article. Uberi
(11:33):
Jara Jubatis was quote brought to Germany along with scientific
samples in nineteen ninety five, and this was done by
SMK paleontologist eb Hard Frey, and that the authorized exporting
of the specimen was granted in February of nineteen ninety
five by the National Department of Mineral Production, and this
(11:54):
gave Frey the go ahead to ship quote two boxes
containing calcerous samples with fossils without any commercial value, with
the main objective to proceed with paleontological studies to the
SMK music.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Sure, so it sounds like they threw a lot of
syllables out some paperwork to make it sound.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Official exactly, And they said, but they said, we have paperwork.
The museum later admitted to the Ministry that it had
made erroneous statements in these in these in these paperwork hoops.
So according to the ministry's probe, the museum wasn't able
to give any record of having obtained proper documentation of
the fossils acquisition and was unable to prove the specimen
(12:33):
was imported before a two thousand and seven German cultural
protection law was put into place. They got nothing. However,
twenty twenty one, the German Ministry told Science the magazine
not just Science written large, just the book SMNK like
hello Science, like just yelling outside.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
By the way, tell Math this too.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
So the German Ministry tells Science that the museum acquired
the specimen in two thousand and nine after it was
imported by a private company in two thousand and six. Also,
Jose Betemar Melo figuroa then now retired official who signed
phrase permit, told Brazilian news portal g One that the
researchers quote also needed authorization from the Ministry of Science
(13:17):
and Technology. So this Brazilian guy signs on it thinking
that this is going to help him get signed off
from a larger Brazilian organization, not that this is going
to help the same in all the country.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
So Frey, in an email to a national geographic said quote,
I am sure we will find a solution, you know sure,
And then he goes on, he goes to tell Science,
we're trying to find a way to solve this in
a fair way, in a way that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
I don't ever believe someone who's saying that to a journalist.
If you're having to say that to a journalist, at
that point, I'm like.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
I don't believe that, and so fair for him. He's
trying to negotiate temporary lease of Uberi Jara to keep
him on display in Germany before returning it to Brazil.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
We want to keep our feathered friend.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Yeah, it's fair for me.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
So Alexander Kellner, who is the director of the National
Museum of Brazil, said, quote, everyone is welcome to study them,
to publish on them, and then give them back, like
they just want Tom back. So Frey feels that even
though he obtained the required documents for the exportation of
these fossils, that the documents only referred to samples that
(14:29):
were unspecified, and so he says they arrived legally, but
we just can't prove it properly.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
You see, there's some ambiguities, but I did not create them.
I'm just living underneath that.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
He's like to sum up, totally legal, totally cool, exactly.
So Kellner, though, the director of the Brazilian Museum, he
says there's no legal exportation of fossils period. He just
doesn't chance right, just start it that way. So then
he says that the only circumstance in which a fossil
could legally leave the country for another to study, would
(15:00):
be as a temporary loan. And so Kellner asks, like,
why is such an incredible fossil but given to Germany
so long ago and we're only now seeing the publication.
So is that because they knew that they got it
under dubious circumstances? He said, quote, it's hard to believe
that any paleontologist would not have recognized the importance of
(15:21):
this specimen and not published it earlier.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Okay, because it is pretty groundbreaking, I.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Remember hugely so. David Martil Martil of University of Portsmouth
in England, said in an email to National Geographic that
he quote would be happy if all the Brazilian fossils
in all of the museums around the world went back
to Brazil.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
But and that but's done a lot of work.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
He thinks that the laws that Brazil has regarding fossil
ownership are a little too strict counterproductive.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
I would love to be able to do that, but
I don't trust Brazil.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
I wish I could imagine it's Brazil, why won't you
give them from them?
Speaker 3 (15:58):
But they don't vow you with the way I think
they should.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
So here's what he says. Because the trade and fossils
was illegal, and because there was potentially big money to
be made from trading them, it became utterly corrupt. That's why, right,
So what are these overly strict and counterproductive laws?
Speaker 3 (16:16):
Are these overly counterproductive laws? Elizabeth well?
Speaker 2 (16:19):
A nineteen forty two Brazilian law says that fossil collecting
within the country requires National Mining Agency permits. It also
says that all fossils that are found belong to the country.
So yeah, okay, standard, No, this is totally standard. A
decree made in nineteen ninety added that the exporting of
fossils must first be approved by Brazil's Ministry of Science,
(16:42):
Technology and Innovation, and then foreign researchers have to collaborate
with a Brazilian institution in any studies.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
Yeah, we want our names with the papers too, rite.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
I don't see how that's overreaching. And then they all
so this is proof that SMNK should have had in hand,
but they couldn't provide. They done broke the law.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Oh, definitely broke the law, and then also did it
in that whole like it's only on paperwork.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Right, fry Frey, He told German newspaper BNN that he
was the only one really involved in this, and then
SMNK scientific director Norbert Lens didn't have anything to do
with it.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
I'm telling you, my boss was totally unaware of what
I was doing in the jungle.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
It was Norbert Lens. He is author of the paper
in Cretaceous research.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
He was totally unaware of everything except for the fact
his name was on the paper.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Totally innocent. But yet he left the museum on his
own volition September thirty twenty two. He's like, look, I'm
out of here.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
I gotta go spend time with somebody else's family.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
But he told BNN that he left and they had
nothing to do with Uberijara. And then Science magazine was like, hey, hey,
can you get a comment? Hey? He was like, I
don't know, he's not here a click. He wouldn't give
a comment.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
Oh really, so Frey, I would say it was about parking,
like they wouldn't give me my parking space, ridiculous, Like.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
It was horrible. Put that in print Martel and Frey.
They started criticizing the way that Brazil cares for their fossils.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
I knew it.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
They see it the same thing always. So they pointed
out that there was a fire in twenty eighteen at
Rio de Janio's Museum Nationale, saying that the fire occurred
because of negligence and ninety two and a half percent
of the archived items in the museum were destroyed in
the fire, out of twenty million items.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
I was Brazil, I'd be like, well, a couple decades ago,
you guys kind of bombed a lot of museums, So
where are we at.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Yeah, one point five million items were stored in a
separate facility and they were spared from the fire. The
museums on a hilltop and the fire hydrants didn't have
enough pressure to get up up the hill the water.
The museum's deputy director, he said the fire was a
result of neglect from successive governments. So he said curators
quote fought with different governments to get adequate resources to
(18:54):
preserve what is now completely destroyed, and that he felt
total dismay and immense anger. So the museum only had
a few fire extinguishers, a smoke detector, no sprinkler system,
and there were a lot of repairs needed at the museum.
Even before the fire.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
We constantly run into this. Museums they always have bad security.
They need updates.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
On this one, peeling paint exposed wiring, and the museum
had tried to address this through crowdfunding, so funds needed
for the museum maintenance hadn't been provided since twenty fourteen.
Indigenous people were livid that the museum wasn't getting funding.
But at the same time, quote, the city had recently
managed to fund a huge budget to build a brand
new Museum of Tomorrow. So the museum celebrated its.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
Two hundred Tomorrow's ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Yes it does. They did it's two hundredth anniversary just
three months before the fire, and at that point it
was partially abandoned and no state officials came to the ceremony,
so it was supposed to be an electrical fire. So
Martil he doubles down and he was like, you know what,
it's a good thing the fossils weren't returned to Brazil
before quote, because now they would all be reduced to
ashes after that magic fire. Elaine Gaillardi, a paleontologist at
(20:04):
the Federal University of Rio Grande Norte, had this to
say in response, quote, Brazil does not take care of
its fossils because the Museum Nationale burned. Okay, what about
Notre Dame. She says, they are trying to neutralize, normalize
a very sick behavior. So Martel then is like, okay,
you know that was a bit and sensitive. He claimed
(20:26):
that he felt it was good to return fossils of
Brazilian origin back to their home and to help rebuild
the museum and its collections.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
I can't believe dropped all so good.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Well, I realized that the following might seem inflammatory, but
the inescapable fact is that so many fossils were removed
from Brazil in the nineteen seventies, nineteen eighties, and first
half of the nineteen nineties. So he's like, okay, it
happened before.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Kenny's say upsetting instead of inflammatory. I mean, this guy's
just he's just not it.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Let's take a dino break. When we come back, I'll
tell you about an investigation with a super sick radical name.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
Yeah Brah.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Hello, Hello, Hello, welcome, Hey Uberi Jara. You know that
uber Jar isn't the only fossil to be smuggled out
of Brazil. No, No, In fact, dino bone smuggling has
been a big operation there for some time.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Yes, from what I understand from the news, Yes, so
much so.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
That the government had a whole investigation surrounding the illicit
bone trade. Really yeah, Operation Santana Raptor.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
I like this.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Yeah, it's named for the Santana raptor. All one word,
the Santana raptor, which was discovered by our old pal
Alexander Kellner of the director of the museum.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Were not the musician Santana, No, how much more fun
would be.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
He discovered its Santana found dinosaur bones, just named it.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
Yeah, and he's like, this is the Santana Raptor. Well,
this Rob Thomas and I discovered this on old walk.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Go on. This Santana raptor is a small Tyranna sarah
royd Tyranna tyranna what enough Tyranna sauroid tyrannaceroid. I'm sounded out.
This is why I'm t rex is cool, theropod dinosaur
And if that means anything to you, congratulations. But it
(22:38):
kind of looks like a cute little t rex hands.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
So the investigation on Operation Santana Raptor is something different.
This all came about after a tip to local authorities
in twenty seventeen about the illegal exporting, uh and trading
of fossils from the area of Nova Olinda and Santana
do Karili. You know those places.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
Of course.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
A fossil trafficking network was then discovered in Siattra, northeastern
state of Brazil. If you say so, totally Brazilians. Don't
even try coming at me. I know I'm messing everything up.
So this has been going on under the radar for decades.
Portuguese to leave me alone. I know I'm a mess up.
(23:25):
Operations Santana Raptor launched in late October of twenty twenty
in a northern region of Brazil, which one Chapata Dori
let it roll, I got it wrong, REPIRIPI left a
syllable out.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
Okay, right, I think that the locals will be impressed
so hard good.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
I'm just not good in it.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
Tongue doesn't make these sounds.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
No, and I'm just not good enough for like Brazil
level operations. The area super rich with fossils, just bustling
with fossils, just foss Of the fifty species of pterosaurs
described in the world, twenty three were identified in the
AAR Ripi Plateau. Damn. Yeah, twenty three fifty put some
(24:08):
respect on a Brazilian federal police. They got nineteen search
warrants after the like on this sting for traffickers. That
was really nothing, though, because the area is so huge,
It's six times larger than South palo and they just
couldn't get a handle on the magnitude of the operation.
So fossil trafficking doesn't get a whole lot of attention,
(24:31):
Nicholas Cage. The drug trade is more immediate and sexyh
of course, you know. It does, however, have super high
profits for the smugglers, so despite the laws and the
special operations, the risk totally worth it.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
Also way fewer guns.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Yeah, well, we would hope you're less.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Likely to be killed by a dinosaur hunter.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Clunked over the headna you never hear about like dino
bone cartels.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
There's a lot of reasons to listen am I wrong.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Operations Santana Raptor focused on businessmen, civil servants and middlemen
involved in the illegal trading of rare fossils. And you
didn't have to be a palaeontologist to discover fossils in
this area. Pieces of archaeological value, which is super easy
to find, you like, trip over it, like.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Rock climbers are finding them, and it's jungle guides well.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
And it's especially true in limestone extraction.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Oh yes, definitely the watch so yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
The rare fossils end up in the hands of the
workers as they're you know, cutting out the limestone, and
those workers learned to identify, you know, when they found
a really good one. So quote many years ago, there
were always people who sold it, but not now. Everything
has changed. No one sells it anymore. Now. We always
find it and donate it to the company's warehouse, where
university students come and the boss delivers it for their studies.
(25:48):
Says jose gomas La Casta, a stonecutter.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
I believe them.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
I believe him, although I don't believe a warehouse. Hey,
I just put him in the company warehouse.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
I believe that what he wants to be. To belief.
Why not.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
It's more fun these limestone quarries, right, they're kicking out
all these dino bones. There are almost a hundred of
them in this region.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Quarries.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Yeah, and so, one researcher said, quote as a rule,
laminated limestone workers do not earn well, so anything that
appears that can supplement their income is a reason for
joy for them. However, it's a loss to Brazilian heritage.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
I hope that the company would at least credit them
with some kind of bonus. The dinosaur bone they put
their name on it, like, oh, this is the hose.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
They're not going to do that unless the company's making line.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Sure, I know, but the company whatever.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Yeah, I know. Remember, where there are people, there is crime,
and so fossils are not always delivered to the right people.
Even a professor at the Federal University of Rio de
jan Nio was under investigations. He allegedly paid bribes on
a monthly basis to local quarry workers who were digging
(26:55):
this stuff up illegally.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
He was paying monthly bribes. He's chiefs, brave diggers, like
give me the goodbyes.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
You get them on retainer.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
Yeah, I got like six guys, seven guys over there.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Local police chief Alan Robson. Alexandrino Ramos said, quote, the
quarry workers and the middlemen were in close contact with
the professor, who funded regular expeditions. When you find a fossil,
the correct procedure is to contact the National Mining Agency
and let them know. Yeah, but these guys come on
and there are they going to pay you?
Speaker 3 (27:23):
No, we're also not supposed to speed when we drive exactly.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
So, crime syndicates have been illegally smuggling fossils from Siattra,
where Chapada du Aripe is located.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
So actually the syndicates get involved, it's not just random
professors going off to the only Hinti person they know.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Then we're into the cartel at all. There we go
and buyers are found throughout the US, Europe, Japan. Between
nineteen ninety eight and two thousand and eight, over thirty
two thousand fossils have been seized by officials in Seattle.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Did you say thirty two thousand, thirty.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Two thousand fossils in ten years?
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Full fossil, not just bones. Lie.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
The government was working to stop the fossils from leaving Brazil.
But what about the ones that are already out there?
Speaker 3 (28:05):
What about them, Elizabeth?
Speaker 2 (28:06):
I'll tell you something. Palaeontologists love to dig, and they
love to us seek out the truth that's hiding in
places often overlooked. If you have a mystery, I feel
like a paleontologist is a good resource to have, do
you think so. Yeah, And since the illegal fossil trade
isn't as flashy and attention grabbing as other illicit trades,
the paleontologists they often have to track this stuff down themselves.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Oh yeah, they're like beneath the like wild animal smugglers.
They're like, can we get some atten? Ours are dead,
but can we get some attention?
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Listen? Zaren, Yeah, close your eyes. Oh yes, I want
you to picture it. It's twenty nineteen. You are previously
mentioned badass paleontologist Tesa Rodriguez of Brazil's Federal University of
Espiritu Santo.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
Look at me.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
There it is there. You are typing away at your
computer doing one of your special investigations. You finish off
your latte, sucking in the last of the coffee at
the bottom of the cup through a straw. It's been
a long day. You have other stuff to do, but
this is more important. You're on the hunt. There's a
knock at your office door. Come back later, you call.
(29:12):
You take a deep breath and you click through some
web pages. Then you spot it. You're on eBay. You
are looking for fossils, fossils that should be in Brazil
and not up for auction by some clown. And you
see one, an incredible one. It's almost an entire skeleton
of a pterosaur, a wingspan of about thirteen feet. You
(29:33):
know this piece. It's from the Araripe plateau, and you
know that it was smuggled out of Brazil between nineteen
eighty and nineteen ninety, which predates Operation Santana raptor where
is it now? France? And they are asking two hundred
and fifty thousand dollars for it?
Speaker 3 (29:51):
Have they lost their ever love it?
Speaker 2 (29:53):
You know, it's worth at least twice that you ring
up your contact at the Federal Public Ministry of Brazil.
While the phone rings, you print up the listing for
the fossil in case they delete the sale got them.
When you tell your contact, you email her the link
to the listing and you wait time to bring this
baby home. I think it's amazing that while the paleontologists
(30:14):
are underfunded and underrecognized in Brazil, they are undeterred badasses.
You're a badass erin so the company that owned the
terosaur initially presented a document to the French court that
supposedly proved the legality of their possession of the fossil,
but evidence that was gathered by the Federal Public Ministry
(30:34):
in Brazil showed that that documentation was false forgeries. So
the French authorities were called in. They went to the
company and they searched and seized the terosaur quote in
a container that was transporting courts. They found hundreds of
fossils from all over the world, said Raphael Rayol, the
prosecutor responsible for the investigation. They discovered the existence of
(30:57):
another forty five fossils, which included sea turtles, arachnids, fish, reptiles, insects, plants,
all of them millions of years old in this supposed
container of quartz quote. There are many stores that sell
fossils in the USA and Europe. It's a reasonably common sale,
said Taysa you Saren. She also said that the repatriation
(31:20):
of fossils is usually hard and that the case in
question is exceptional. Good job, taysen Z. So when they
got back to Brazil, the recovered pieces became part of
the collection of the Museum of Paleontology at the Regional
University of Kaririri, and that houses about eleven thousand fossils there.
(31:41):
Operation Santana Raptor, though, wasn't the only investigation into these crimes.
There was Operation Cardoom in April of twenty thirteen, and
in that case, the government was seeking to retrieve known
fossils and found them at a guy's house and he
was selling them to craft stores.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
Oh like a Michael's.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Maybe Michael's hobby lobby. No hate mail hob no hobby lobby.
There was Operation.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
Munich later that year that articaprio totally.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
It was directed by Steven Steele, so that one recovered
semi precious stones and fossils, and the government had seven
arrest warrants, nine search warrants all across Brazil, somewhere in stores,
somewhere in warehouses, and more than two thousand fossils and artifacts.
We received a lot.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
I've got to believe one of these investigations is going
to lead to Nicholas Cage's house.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
I mean, I mean, well, how about Operation Flintstones.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
Are you kidding?
Speaker 2 (32:38):
No, I'm not kidding. It's an amazing name. That's top
shelf right there.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
Oh yeah, top shelf cuties.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Yeah. August twenty fifteen, this operation went full flintstones and
recovered stolen fossils and artifacts from caves across Brazil. Yes, yes,
so there were some frequent flyers in this group of
captured crooks. One of them was a German geologist named
Michael Lothar Schwickert. He was busted twice by the federal police.
(33:05):
He answered two police inquiries, but then he was released
and just dipped out of Brazil, just left the country.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
His middle name of Lothar, that's one of those names
that sticks with me because of the old snl skit
of a loath Ar, of the who people see. This
is what happened to one line.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
According to a researcher at the Paleontology Laboratory at the
University of Kariri, Lothar is quote a customary seller of
fossils from Chippata du al a ripe to collectors, researchers,
universities and museums around the world.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
So he just breezes and buys up some stolen dinosaur bones,
goes to Hong Kong, sells them for top.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Dollars exactly, and Lothar very familiar with the fossil basin,
the Alaripe fossil base, more than most this researcher Alamo
Saraiva called him quote a great fossil prepare the best
I've ever seen. He's a specialist in quote cutting cut
edystone taken from the laminated limestone.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
She was really good at cutting limestone.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
He's a great limestone top shelf. Twenty seventeen, three tourists
were arrested in the Act. They were carrying a fossil
each in their hand luggage and the airport X ray
caught their loop. They're like, why do you have a
big lady, lady? They said they didn't know that smuggling
fossils was a crime.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
Is not legal.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
I thought this was fine.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
I thought it's like, if you can lift it, you
can take it exactly.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Let's take a break and when we come back, we'll
talk about how we got here in the first place.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
So Zarin, Yes, I was just trying to measure these
dinosaur bones to see if they'd fit in my overhead bag.
So I think they will.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
I'm in luck, perfect perfect. Just make sure you wrap
them in enough stuff so they don't get.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
I should probably not have these be checked, otherwise they're
gonna go through X ray. Darn perfect.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
So we got us some smugglers looting Brazilian land.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
For fossils, dinosaurs, smuggler blues, and.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
They're almost always smuggled out, generally to Europe. The US
scientists tend to stick to the stuff unearthed on homes.
We got plenty, and the Japanese are sticklers for proper paperwork.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
And provenas oh I could see that.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
So what gives right? Colonization It all started there, not
that old bugaboo. So back in the day, imperial powers
took fossils from their colonies to their homes for study
and to place on exhibits.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
And not just fossils Elizabeth, Well, that's a whole other
It was kind of a colonial mindset we take and
we take home.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Yeah, so the practice indoors. There's a researcher, doctor Raja Shub,
a paleontologist from the Erlingen Nuremberg University in Germany. Quote. Now,
what is happening is parachute science, where scientists from the
richer countries go to poorer countries, collect fossils and information
(36:21):
and then take them to their institutions where they study them.
There isn't an exchange of knowledge with local researchers similar
to what happened during the colonial era.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
Yeah, it's kind of like you know when they offer people,
we're not going to pay you, We're going to give
you free exposure. Oh my god, they're giving the country
free exposure, like we're going to let everyone know we
got the bones here. It's cool, it's cool.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Well, many paleontologists they take these natural resources, they don't
leave anything behind, and that takes away from local knowledge
and educational training.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
But they oh, we taught them how to dig, and
we taught them the skills, so now they can do
this too.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Raja Shub elaborates quote the fact that paleontologists are not
trained to think about ethics and laws in general. His
created a black market for scientists. So this is why
you can't just have STEM. You have to have a
full liberal arts education, so you take like an ethics slash. Yeah. So,
Raja Shube is one of seven paleontologists who study parachute science.
(37:15):
According to Science Friday, quote, parachute science is a term
describing how researchers sometimes drop down from an ivory tower
into in the wealthy Western world, into a foreign community
for field work. They gather their data and then they
zip off home without engaging with or acknowledging the contributions
of the local researchers in that community. Parachute science totally.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
So you say science Friday, Yeah, yeah, so good, Ira,
I love it.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Despite the fact that the richest fossil sites in the
world are in developing countries, over the last thirty years,
ninety seven percent of fossil data has been produced by
scientists in wealthy countries. Raja Shube notes, quote our finding
show that colonial history and economics influence patterns that weber
in paleontology. To see it so clearly through the data
(38:03):
was the biggest surprise for everyone. So the US is
the country who studies the most fossils, but like I said,
the studies show that the US is also the country
who studied fossils that were collected from home.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
Yeah, we get hih on our own supplies totally.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
Germany, the UK and France are next on the list
of top fossil investigators, but they're also the top countries
for exploitation of scientific resources in third world countries and
they ice out the locals too. This is what doctor
Raja Schub said, quote. I think that researchers from the
whole world, especially the ones from the richest countries, should
(38:36):
think about the consequences of not being committed to local
communities and to a country's researchers when they're researching abroad.
Juan Carlos is Naros of Brazil's Federal University of Piaui explains, quote,
there is an enormous asymmetry in archaeology. This problem is
discussed in museums too, but in paleontology it's taboo. We
(38:57):
have to talk about this because it exists, not sweep
it under the rug. And then he explains the importance
of place. Paleontology is a science that depends a lot
on the context of where everything is found. If you
find a dinosaur in Brazil, you won't just excavate that dinosaur.
You will see everything around it, fossils of other species,
where it came from, from what level. When you get
(39:18):
a fossil on the black market, all of that is lost.
Sometimes the fossils have even been adulterated. That information gets
lost and it can't be recovered. It's bad science.
Speaker 3 (39:28):
It's interesting how many times all these stories ultimately come down.
Every simple question is if we can only get the
adults to learn how to share right.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Another mark on the scientific community is blood amber. Oh yeah, yeah,
So fossils trapped in amber a beautifully preserved see Jurassic Park.
But like blood diamonds, a lot of that amber is
gathered and sold to fund violent conflicts in other countries.
The Society for of Vertebrate Paleontology, which is the largest
(39:57):
body of professional paleontologists in the world, they called for
a moratorium in April of twenty twenty on the publication
of fossils that might have been sold to fuel the
genocide Myanmar. Oh wow, So the mines where amber fossils
are found are all controlled by Myanmar military, and it's
they who've committed acts of genocide against the country's Muslim
(40:20):
Rohinga people.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
Oh, it's like a wildlife smuggling or narco trafficking. You're
going to find disproportionately crime in.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Those businesses, exactly. And so by selling the amber for
a high price, the researchers are essentially funding genocide. So
while so much can be learned about us today and
our future on the planet by studying dinosaurs and other fossils,
it's not the stuffy, pure pursuit. It may seem you know,
not at all, and there are, like anything we do, consequences.
(40:47):
But zaren, Yes, Elizabeth Zaren, what of Uberijara? Ah?
Speaker 3 (40:52):
How many times do I say that to myself every.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Morning when you wake up. July nineteenth, twenty twenty two,
Germany announced that the specimen would be returned to Brazil.
Speaker 3 (41:01):
Yeah, raise up.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Teresia Bauer, who leads the Ministry of Science, Research and
Arts for the German state of Baden Wurtenberg, told Science
magazine not just science in general. Quote, we have a
clear stance. If there are objects in the collections of
our museums that were acquired under legally or ethically unacceptable conditions,
we will return them. It is important that with the
(41:24):
return we send a clear signal about the correct handling
of collection items they're provenas and scientific honesty. Yes, and
also it stands to.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
Take if you think, and you're in the business of paleontology,
and you think there's these other paleontologists across the pond
who aren't as good or don't have as the standards
you have, maybe help them with the standards as opposed
to going we've taken all their stuff.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
Yeah, exactly, just to hear what you're.
Speaker 3 (41:47):
Doing, Like try to once again, you'll hear me say
this often share knowledge or information, share what you know,
and then go hey, let's all share these bones that
we all are standing on top of.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
Well, if we really believe that it's to advance humanity.
Speaker 3 (41:59):
Yes, you know, there was no Brazil for dinosaurs, and
there was no Germany, so they would be like, I
don't know what y'all talking about, right, Well.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
It's all just one thing, doctor Frey. He retired in
early twenty twenty two and told Science he wasn't allowed.
Speaker 3 (42:15):
To comment on the story, just the whole field.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
Yeah, he was like, hello, Science, But Bauer told German
newspaper BNN that the whole thing was scientific misconduct. At
the same time, neither the German Ministry nor SMNK took
disciplinary action against any of the researchers involved.
Speaker 3 (42:33):
Seems to be very common in these stories when there's
not enough like blood or money, it's like and nothing
was done.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Nothing was done. So remember Allen Gilardi, the paleontologist at
the Federal University of Rio Grande. Did d nortek about it?
Forget her, No tre Dame Todm. She was the girl
She said of the return, quote, I am happy with
the outcome. We have taken another step towards the real
twenty first century science, which is getting rid and slowly
(43:00):
of colonialist ties and biases.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
Amen. Amen, I'll be over here dropping mics at this
mic club.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
So Germany's decision to return uberi Jara is seen as
a sort of victory against colonialism in the scientific community.
Speaker 3 (43:15):
Good Germany.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
Gilardi also said, quote European museums will not and should
not be emptied. Fair exchanges and collaborations can be made
so that everyone can share in the benefits that fossils
can offer.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
There's that word, bring it on share not just a
pop star.
Speaker 2 (43:32):
Smn CA says they're going to examine how it acquired
other fossils in the collection. Palaeontologist Felipe Pinero fought hard
for the return of the uberi Jara to Brazil. He
had a hashtag xeren serious, hashtagbri Jara belongs to br
and look what he did hashtag in a dreams to
(43:54):
his credit. So as to the Germans hanging on to
some forty other Brazil based fossils, Pinner had this to say, quote,
we got new hashtags coming because a Brazilian researcher. I
am immensely happy that the specimen is going home. I
am glad this means that a few dozen other invaluable
specimens are likely to make company to Ubijara and return home.
Speaker 3 (44:14):
It's kind of weird how they have to be graceful
about gang. Can we have our stuff back?
Speaker 2 (44:18):
Right?
Speaker 3 (44:18):
Because if they're not graceful, they won't get it back. Well,
look at them, they're being jerks to us. You just
took their stuff. Like imagine if I wented someone's, you know,
some really rich home and I took like, I don't
know all their like they're heirloom silver, right, their silver
set from great great Greek grandma. And I'm like, yeah,
but I thought you guys weren't using it and you
weren't taking care of it. So I took it. And
(44:39):
I'm showing that all my people and how nice silverware
used to be. We all love. It's important to us.
They're like, could we have it back? I'm like, you
seem to be mad. Don't yell at me. If you
keep coming at me like that, you're never seeing this again.
You guys will know not to appreciate your silverware.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
That's what they're saying, that's totally Is that your ridiculous
take away? It could be it is it is, that's beautiful.
Speaker 3 (44:58):
What's your ridiculous take away? Lizabeth? I did that, just.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
Smoothed, easy boom, easy breezy.
Speaker 3 (45:03):
And that's some time. Go on, what's yours?
Speaker 2 (45:06):
I think you know? Akin to that? I feel like
it's maddening that, you know, this control that gets exerted
over these things, and this notion of knowing what's best
for others. Yes, and well you can't take care of
your stuff managers with fire, Yeah, come on, and you know,
if you're all in this together, And like you were saying,
the dinosaurs didn't know one country from the other because
(45:27):
they weren't, wouldn't you scientists as scientists reach out and
like how can I help you? Rather than turning your
nose up at it? But you know, again, it's this
colonial mindset.
Speaker 3 (45:37):
And also I mean it's and I joked earlier about
like can't we get the adults to learn how to share?
But it is like very much not just a children's thing.
Is that it says whole like mine, but I want
it If I can't have it, I'm taking the ball home.
It's all the stuff you see children do, we see
adults do. They just do it on paperwork and with
press announcements. But it's the same thing.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
Well, it's you know, because of the power that they hold,
they feel they don't have to share, but you demonstrate
larger power by sharing, exactly.
Speaker 3 (46:02):
And it's a greater gift to give yourself.
Speaker 2 (46:04):
Isn't it though? I know because you know what sharing is. Karen.
That's it for today. You can find us online at
ridiculous Crime dot com. We're also at Ridiculous Crime on
both Twitter and Instagram, and you can email ridiculous Crime
at gmail dot com at your own risk, and you
can leave a talkback on the iHeart app reach out.
(46:26):
And that's it. Ridiculous Crime is hosted by Elizabeth Dutton
and Zarren Burnett, produced and edited by David Saurus Kustin.
Research is by Marissa Velociraptor to the Stars Brown and
Andrea Cutest Little Papasaurus song Sharpened Tear. The theme song
(46:47):
is by reanimated iguana Don Thomas Lee and renowned Brontosaurus
burger chef Travis Dutton. Executive producers are Ben Give Chile,
The Miladawn remains Bowlin and Noel Rich it turns Zambia's
broken hill skull immediately, or I will rain down hell
fire upon you Brown. Ridicous Crime.
Speaker 3 (47:13):
Say it one more time, Ridiquious Crime.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio four more podcasts
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