"You Try to Choke George Clooney, See How It Goes": the David O Russell Story

On a Hollywood film set, the director is like a god. They have the power to make or to break. They have the carte blanche to do whatever they must to make their art. And they often abuse this privilege and all the fine folks around them. And then, there's David O Russell who takes bad behavior to whole 'nother level. Listeners, be warned: there's plenty of salty language in this one, it's bleeped, but it's still there.  

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ridiculous Crime. It's a production of iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
Hello Elizabeth his Saron, I love you walk in there
and I'm like, hey, look, I gotta tell her his story,
and I hear you.

Speaker 3 (00:09):
Laugh, and I'm always like about twenty thirty minutes late.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
I was. I was gliding past that because I was
seven minutes late.

Speaker 3 (00:17):
So who oh, okay, So, but.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
I got a question for you while we're here, Yes, sir,
do you know what's ridiculous?

Speaker 3 (00:23):
Oh? Do I what Heines Brazil?

Speaker 2 (00:28):
What Heins Brazil?

Speaker 3 (00:29):
The Brazilian arm of the Hines.

Speaker 4 (00:31):
Ah, okay, they're wild now.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
I thought that was one word, Heines of Brazil.

Speaker 4 (00:35):
Hins Brazil.

Speaker 3 (00:36):
It's like a German word that means something very specific,
you know when you get ketchup and it falls into
your decloete. I don't know. Okay, So the Brazilian arm
of Heines, Right, I've mentioned them before because they had
the whole thing with like the Hines tattoos and oh right, right,
I think there was ketchup in the rustard. Yeah whatever.

(00:57):
So they have this thing now called Heine grills. And
you're thinking, like, oh, meat cooked over flame, zeron, It's
not meat cooked over.

Speaker 4 (01:08):
Flames, grills Z.

Speaker 3 (01:09):
It's grills with it. It literally is grills with a Z.
And what it is is like gold teeth, right, a
grill for those uninitiated, like slip on slip on tooth,
but they don't have a full grill. They're doing the
single dirt bag tooth.

Speaker 4 (01:27):
Oh, just like a gold cap, right, and so they.

Speaker 3 (01:30):
Have there's three of them, Ketchup, mustard and mayonnaise. Yeah,
the ketchup has this is what it says, says a
blingy gold tooth with a red engraved HINZ keystone logo.

Speaker 4 (01:42):
Oh.

Speaker 3 (01:43):
Mustard is also gold accented with a splash of yellow
and twelve diamonds set into the engraving. And the Mayo
grill is the most minimal but the cleanest look a
single silver piece with a cutout of their keystone like logo.

Speaker 2 (01:57):
Ye, so down state of Pennsylvania where they are located, right.

Speaker 3 (02:02):
But I think there are two important things that need
to be mentioned here. One, I saw the to Kendrick
Lamar and Mustard's Yeah I got a bone to pit.
I uh saw this pop up on Instagram and then
within about an hour I was getting forwarded to me

(02:25):
from our Instagram ridiculous crime account. All the rude dudes
who saw this and were like, send this to Elizabeth.
So I love you all. Thank you. So there's so
many people and there you're all amazing.

Speaker 2 (02:39):
Thanks guys.

Speaker 3 (02:39):
But the other thing is that these are not for sale,
you know, just they're just for the Brazilian social media.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
That's it.

Speaker 3 (02:49):
That's it.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
They're not even something you can purchase.

Speaker 4 (02:52):
Like, I don't know if there's water purchase.

Speaker 3 (02:55):
Maybe this is just like, yeah, maybe this is just
a feeler to see if everyone's like, wait, where do
I get this? I want to spend an enordan amount
of money?

Speaker 2 (03:03):
This is their idea of a test ballon Like, hey,
what do you guys think?

Speaker 4 (03:06):
Yeah, in this economy you want to want to hop
on that. Yeah?

Speaker 3 (03:09):
And I so I'm going to guess that you know,
no one wants them. I think so except for Mustard.

Speaker 2 (03:17):
I think he gets them free. Is any doing the
ads for them? Now?

Speaker 3 (03:19):
Yeah, that's right he should.

Speaker 2 (03:21):
So you know, a couple just says like, hey, thank you.

Speaker 3 (03:25):
Man, Saron. That's ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (03:26):
Oh brother, is it?

Speaker 3 (03:29):
Brother?

Speaker 5 (03:30):
No?

Speaker 2 (03:30):
I got a question for you. What sit back down?

Speaker 3 (03:32):
Oh crap?

Speaker 2 (03:33):
Yeah? Do you know what else is ridiculous.

Speaker 3 (03:35):
Yeah, I know, everything's ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (03:37):
Yeah. Well, what we think of as a crime versus
what gets excused is like say, workplace drama. Yeah right,
Like today, I have an extreme example of this called
from Films and the onset antics of one David O. Russell.
Now he's the director who did iHeart Huckabees, Flirting with Disaster,
Three Kings, The Fighter, American Hustle, Silver Linings Playbook. Right,

(04:00):
you know him?

Speaker 5 (04:01):
Right?

Speaker 3 (04:01):
I had of Bradley Cooper in there.

Speaker 2 (04:02):
Yeah yeah, Jason Schwartzman's all up in there. Lily Tomlin, doubles, Gay,
Jennifer something, Oh, Jennifer Lawrence, she's all up in there.
Yeah yeah, I left out another one Amsterdam. She thinks
she's in that one.

Speaker 3 (04:15):
BBC.

Speaker 2 (04:15):
Now, if you didn't know this, he has something of
a temper.

Speaker 6 (04:19):
Oh really, Oh yeah, Oh I had no idea.

Speaker 2 (04:41):
This is ridiculous crime. A podcast about absurd and outrageous
capers and cons. It's always what ninety nine percent murder
free and what one hundred percent ridiculous? Elizabeth Hollywood?

Speaker 3 (04:58):
Oh god, bless or, what's a it?

Speaker 5 (05:01):
You know?

Speaker 2 (05:01):
I love it? In fact, I also well I started
out wanting to be a film director. You know this,
I'd still like to direct a film. So I read
the trades. I follow the onset news, and that means,
of course you hear about all the onset drama, because
that's what we published these days, like oh yeah, so
and so, slap so and so. Oftentimes though on set
dramas with directors okay, yeah, Well there was a moment there,

(05:23):
a brief moment it looked like Hollywood might reconsider all
the bad behavior of various film producers and directors and
so forth right and work to reduce such abuses in
the future. Instead, they invented intimacy coordinators and just kept
it moving. So but rather than talk about all the
mini abuses on set that go with the me too
era and on and off sets in Hollywood that you
know that motivated that, I thought we could look next

(05:44):
door at the bad behavior of film directors who abuse
their actors on set, but not that way, I mean
more like verbally abusing them, physically fighting them, and just
mentally beating them cruelly. We take a look at how
that behavior gets excused in the name of genius. Because
a could be considered a crime often and what some
of these directors do on these sets, and b it's

(06:05):
typically ridiculous. So it really hits right in that sweet
spot for us. Elizabeth, you've ever been on a film.

Speaker 3 (06:09):
Set, I've not, No, you know, I used to when
you can talk about reading the trades, and like when
I was like in high school, I got variety totally,
and it was all about like, I want to make
movies do yeah, And I'm minored in film all right.
But then the more I learned about it, about the business,
and the more I learned about me and the people,

(06:32):
that I have a poet's soul and empower. Yeah. I
mean in in college, you pet, I took fiction workshop
and everyone was so mean to each other and just
tearing each other down. And then I took a poetry
workshop and everyone was just in love with language and
very supportive. Even when it wasn't so great, people would

(06:54):
be very supportive and help the author, the poet get
to a place where it was it was good, right.

Speaker 2 (06:59):
Very loving, supportive and total shift.

Speaker 3 (07:02):
These are my people. And so I think you were
telling me not too long ago that there are novelists
who are also poets, but there are poets who are novelists,
and I think I.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
Fall you're the poet who is a novelist.

Speaker 3 (07:17):
Yeah, that's why I would describe you the people not
very commercial.

Speaker 2 (07:20):
No, well exactly, it's kind of we're having a conversation
about marketability, and essentially the novelists who are poets, you know,
they can they can sell, and then the poets are
a novelists. It's like good luck as you're starting from poetry.
And that's not something I think about a market.

Speaker 3 (07:33):
I couldn't hang Hollywood style, that's all market right, and
it's just I'm too tender.

Speaker 2 (07:39):
Yes you are a sweet blossom, but delicate orchid. Yeah,
And I don't think like, well the film said that.
I thing that always keep in mind is that the
director is like, god, yeah, they can do pretty much whatever.

Speaker 3 (07:50):
They want a ton yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:53):
Yeah, and TV sets as well and so forth. And
I've seen like in TV sets you'll hear the voice
of the director because they're like going to control room
looking at it like the string. They'll be down there
for blocking and setting up. But then once you're shooting,
they're off and they're watching on the screens and they're
in front of a control back. So you just hear
their voices, the voice of God they call it, and
you're like talking to the air when you're responding to

(08:13):
the director's interesting. Yeah, but on film sets, obviously they're
right there. Sometimes they're blow the camera staring at you.
We'll get into that in a second, but my point
is is, like, it's wild the power directors have on
a set and they are allowed, also producers, but especially directors. Right,
it's basically this morality, ethics free zone that they run. Right,
So what happens is that the attitude of them being

(08:34):
a genius gets glamorized, lion eyed, legitimized, and you end
up with directors like James Cameron, who is very famous
in town for getting his crew shirt to wear on
his sets and the shirt mocked his reputation. That was
like a whole like you know, in joke for the
set and it was basically about him being a task master.
And the t shirt's read, you can't scare me. I

(08:56):
work for James Cameron. Oh so it's like bluster. I've
been so abused from like tough leather.

Speaker 5 (09:02):
Now.

Speaker 2 (09:03):
So now there's another au Tour director, Quentin Tarantino. He's
a no not just as a foot fetishi on his
film sets. The man likes feet, Yes he does, and
he likes you to know it, and he wants you
to take part with him. I'm like, bro, what is
this that feet on the dashboard? Yeah? Yeah, So he's
also a bit of a tyrant apparently. And that's not
me saying that, that's Jamie Fox's words. He said that

(09:25):
to Howard Stern. I guess when he was on the
set of Jango Unchained, he was trying to do like
a whole like blaxploitation vibe when he first got there.
I mean, that's what he was told with the vibe
like Tarantino when they were first doing the casting. And
then Quentin sees him acting like Jim Brown, you know,
and like Fred the Hammer Williamson, and he just goes
in on Jamie Fox. As Fox told Howard Stern and
I quote, I was just getting to learn Quentin Tarantino,

(09:46):
so he was again a tyrant. Now for evidence of this,
he recalled how Tarantino yelled at him about coming onto
the film like he'd been shaken out of a blaxploitation flick. Yeah,
and Tarantino apparently yelled at him in front of people
do not my film up, You're not Jim Brown.

Speaker 3 (10:02):
Well, Jamie FOXX could be excused seeing the rest of
the like.

Speaker 2 (10:06):
Oh yeah, but until that point, right, it's basically a
rip off a black sploica. I thought this is what
you wanted. Yeah, he's like, no, this is a Western
or I guess a Southern. Anyway, when Tarantino, UH meant
by what that was the character Django needed to grow.
He needed to have a character arc car Quentin's language
quote he's a slave and then and then he becomes the.

Speaker 4 (10:26):
Hero to lose that.

Speaker 2 (10:29):
That was a direct quote.

Speaker 3 (10:30):
So they're nicer way to say, right, this.

Speaker 2 (10:32):
Is what I'm talking about. You just wait, Elizabeth. Jamie
fox did off rep rationalization for Tarantino coming at him
like that. He said, and I quote, that's what you want.
You want a director who even if you're going to
go off the cliff, you know that you're going off
that cliff. I can see they're like, I want to
be beaten up his time. Yeah, I'm sure you you know.

(10:53):
I know what he means. You want passion from an artist, right,
and he we expect it from our great artists. But like,
what about say a director like Michael Bay. Yeah, like
of Transformers fan right now. Megan Fox once compared his
directing style to Adolf Hitler. Oh god, yeah, which seemed
a bit hyperbolic at the time, But I mean, how
much abuse should a person have to take on the
film set from the director of Transformers three? I mean,

(11:16):
so to answer that, we turned two. Friend of the show,
Ben Affleck, he once quite famously worked with Michael Bay
on Armageddon nineteen ninety eight. They worked together, right to
make that action blockbuster, and let me tell you, Ben
Affleck hated it. So, I mean even Bruce Willis said
that Michael Bay, well, he called Michael Bay quote a
screaming director. And then like after AMAgeddon was all done

(11:38):
and wrapped and he was like supposed to be doing publicity,
he was asked about it and he's like, few people
will work with him now, and I know I will
never work with him again.

Speaker 3 (11:46):
Can't yell at Bruce no, right.

Speaker 2 (11:48):
Now, Ben Affleck, he got singled out very particular abuse, like,
for instance, Michael Bay couldn't stand his teeth. He hated
Ben Affleck' oversized choppers just fixated on it, right, So
he made him go get dental work. Now, there are
reports that Ben Affleck got forty hours worth of dentistry
in a one week stretch. He was there, Like, yeah,

(12:09):
because a full time job just eight hours every day.
Let's let's get into it.

Speaker 3 (12:14):
Dog what interrnation?

Speaker 2 (12:16):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (12:16):
Could they do because he he didn't like the the
Veneers right? So did they have to read I.

Speaker 2 (12:24):
Don't know, chisel them off? I have no idea.

Speaker 3 (12:27):
I have a problem with the fact that Ben Affleck
doesn't seem to be able to close his mouth. You
do have a problem with, yes, And I love him
to death, Ben, I.

Speaker 2 (12:37):
Love you, friend of the show. I love Ben. But
he barely wasn't let out of the dental chair until
Michael Bay was like happy with his dad is which
seems cruel and unusual. Yeah, yeah, I think both the
Geneva Convention and the Constitution.

Speaker 3 (12:50):
If your boss, if Admiral iHeart came up to me
and it's like, Elizabeth, your face is just a.

Speaker 2 (12:56):
Mess, strapping your cosmetology.

Speaker 3 (12:58):
You until work, and it's out of pocket for you
because you don't didn't build that into the budget.

Speaker 2 (13:06):
Yeah, probably not.

Speaker 3 (13:07):
And you're going to be in pain, but it is
to keep this job.

Speaker 2 (13:10):
But this is because I want to make my blockbuster.
It's really just me. I'm bothered by them. No one
else in the audience will ever notice this, but I
can't have it.

Speaker 3 (13:18):
Yeah, yeah, who are you?

Speaker 2 (13:20):
My favorite fun factor in the film comes from the
DVD commentary, which, by the way, Ben Affleck does and
it's brilliant, Like, just watch it. It's hilariously and I'm
not even kidding. At one point, he tells the story
how we asked Michael Bay about the central plot of
the film, and one might call a major plot hole.
Affleck asked Michael Bay, wouldn't it be easier to train
astronauts to drill rather than to train roughnecks to be astronauts?

(13:42):
And Michael Bay's response was shut them up.

Speaker 7 (13:45):
So.

Speaker 2 (13:46):
Another film director who was also known to be a
magician of cruelty, constantly pulling new rabbits of abuse out
of his hat, is David Fincher. Oh really, Oh yeah?
Did you like a two thousand and seven films Zodiac
about the Zodiac Killer movie? Yeah? And the reporter from
the San Francisco Chronicle who tried to find him. Now,
I guess it was no easy feat getting those performances
out of Robert Downey Junior and Jake Jillenhall because Fincher

(14:09):
beat them like a rented mule, just psychologically. Really, he
would sometimes demand regularly up to seventy takes just to
get a take he likes.

Speaker 3 (14:17):
Seventy seventy.

Speaker 2 (14:18):
Yeah. Sometimes he made Jake Jillenhall do take after take
after take until he didn't think he could humanly emote
another take, and then to motivate him, Fincher would show
him his last take, and since they were shooting on digital,
he would just erase the take right there in front
of him. Oh yes, And then he did it, not
just that one, but like multiple takes, like we're getting
rid of this one, this one, this one, this one
is erasing his work in front of him.

Speaker 3 (14:39):
Imagine you come home, I can't wait. Imagine that a
bag of groceries. If you walk in the door and
you take him to the kitchen and then someone says, cut,
do it again. If you had to do that seventy.

Speaker 2 (14:51):
Times, what could be different between fifty eight and sixty eight.
So things got so bad, Jake Jillenhall broke down in tears,
and later on Fincher admitted that he erased the takes
in front of Jake as part of an art experiment,
just to see how many takes he had to erase
before Jake would cry. What that's Swear to God, he's
that's his.

Speaker 3 (15:10):
Did he need him in rationalization for that scene.

Speaker 2 (15:14):
No, he just wanted to like make Jake Jills all cry.
And he also had Robert Downey Junior, who was no
slouch as an actor. He didn't suffer through as many
multiple takes apparently, but he had to rebel against the
director on set because he was thought of him as
a tyrant. So the guy was demanding that the cast
and the crew not take breaks. He wanted them to
stay in focus, you know, and whatever. So out of

(15:34):
spite in dramatic excess, Robert Downey Junior started to piss
in Mason jars and just leave his jars around. They
could urine all around.

Speaker 3 (15:42):
He couldn't even go to the bath.

Speaker 2 (15:43):
No, he wouldn't have let him go to his trailer.
So like he's basically like the love child of Johnny
Applested and Howard Hughes, just dropping everywhere, Mason jars of
urine everywhere, which is fun. Now, I don't want you
to think that this is just male directors who are jerks,
because women could be times to Elizabeth exhibit a barber
strides in back in nineteen ninety six, she was making

(16:03):
a movie called The Mirror Has Two Faces, Right, Yeah,
And she'd already made Entil Prince of Tides, and she's
riding this wave of critical hand box office success. Right,
so then she makes A Mirror Has Two Faces And
it was apparently a bit of a nightmare set, Like
what kind of nightmare set? Great question is a good question.
For one, there was what insiders called the Wall of Crosses.
Now in one of the production offices, they'd hung up

(16:24):
crosses for everyone who'd been fired from the set. There
were at least twenty crucifixes hung on the wall, and
there was like one for like what. There was one
cross for Dudley Moore, he was an actor who was
fired from the movie for blowing his lines. There was
another crucifix for Dante Spinoti. If you don't know, he's
the cinematographer from like a lot of Michael Mann movies,
like Last Mohicans, and he really guy. Yeah, and so

(16:46):
he wasn't fired, though he resigned after as one insider
told The New York Times quote, taking a tremendous amount
of abuse.

Speaker 3 (16:53):
For the Mirror has two faces.

Speaker 2 (16:55):
For the cinematography of a mirror, like we're not talking
like there's explosions and extras in danger and no, it's
just like I'd like the plush carpet to look more plush.
So another production insider, speaking on condition of anonymity, like
he's a DC power player like off the record, told
The New York Times quote, Striys had loves living in chaos.
Everything has to be tortured. She's frustrated about everything. It's

(17:16):
all me, me, me. She shows up late constantly, which
I think is unprofessional. She's tired. I know she's tired.
Now they sent in to combat such narrative someone else
to speak to The New York Times for the same story,
because you know, and they're basically a spokesperson for the film.
So they speak with The Times. And they did not
request anonymity obviously because they're a spokesperson. Which is great though,

(17:38):
because this name is incredible, especially for someone in his
line of work. The Mirror has two faces. Spokesperson's name
was Ken Sunshine, Ken Sunshine, Ken Sunshine and He told
The New York Times rather confidently that missus streisand feels
great about this movie. She's killing herself, but she's having
a great time doing it, which is like Ken Sunshine
has an amazing name, but not good at his job, but.

Speaker 3 (18:00):
He's so full of sunshine. He's a sunshine boy in
the morning.

Speaker 2 (18:04):
Thrown sunshine up here. Now, you never want to say
your client is killing themselves and having a great time
doing it.

Speaker 3 (18:09):
Yeah, because what do we need to get her help?

Speaker 2 (18:11):
The New York Times one hundred percent is gonna run
with that sound by now if you want to take
the approach of a smooth industry veteran like Piers Brosnan,
who was in the film, and he also he talked
to The New York Times and he blamed sexism for
any reports of bad behavior on the film set. He said,
I've watched mal directors spit out the dummy and throw
tantrums on set and nobody says a peep. So just
an important point. Yeah, he also had more to say.

(18:33):
Brosden added, and I quote, I had a great time
with the woman. She gets the job done. She's precise,
kind and aware. There's only one barber streisand but Elizabeth
Piers Brosnan still ain't done. He had even more to say.
He also added that rumors of onset antics are often
sour grapes. Oh yeah, or is he put it quote?
Usually the crap you hear comes from frightened, insecure people.

(18:54):
As we all know, scared dogs bite. At the end
of the day, if this picture makes big bucks, no
one's going to give a flying whatever about how it
got made big bucks. The two sides to any story,
they like to say. But then again, there sometimes wants
there you go, he's a jobber.

Speaker 3 (19:11):
I mean, if you say, who has more pull at
that time?

Speaker 2 (19:14):
Oh yeah, Barbara strives Barbara. Oh yeah, yeah, it was
definitely run in second.

Speaker 3 (19:19):
When he comes to the bread.

Speaker 2 (19:21):
But so h there you go. That's, as I say,
you know, the two sides of the story. He wanted
to cover both sides. He wanted people to know that
it's like, hey, it's not everything you hear is true.
But then again, there are sometimes when, even by Hollywood's
very lax standards, you got a film director who crosses
the lines so egregiously so often you have to wonder,
how is none of this a crime? So let's take

(19:44):
a little break, and then after these messages we'll get
into the art and crimes of David o' russell, a
tyrant among filmmakers. Yeah, Elizabeth Saron, we're back.

Speaker 3 (20:12):
Hey.

Speaker 2 (20:13):
You ready to talk about a film director who makes
other film directors say? Well, at least I'm not him?

Speaker 4 (20:17):
Yes, Oh no, Do you like.

Speaker 2 (20:19):
David o' russell, or at least do you like his movies?

Speaker 3 (20:21):
I don't really think I have an opinion.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
Okay, what do you know about David Russell personally?

Speaker 3 (20:27):
I know that his middle name is oh.

Speaker 2 (20:29):
Oh oh o'reiley.

Speaker 3 (20:31):
His bologney has a first name.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
Yeah. Actually his middle name oh is Sands for Owen Owen. Yeah,
David Owen Russell.

Speaker 3 (20:39):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (20:40):
Yeah. He was born in New York, raised by his father,
Bernard Salesman, who worked as a way up to vice
president at Simon Schuster. Oh, I'm big in the publishing world.
Apparently his mother also worked there as a secretary. Not
as big in the publishing world. Apparently his father was
Jewish Russian Jewish family mother was from an Italian American descent.
He first started out to be a writer, obviously, because
he's in publishing and rice around publishing, and but then

(21:01):
he also had this hankering to make films, and so
when he was a kid, like when he was thirteen,
he makes his first film, super eight short film, and
he's a natural artist. He finds he's like, he can
speak the grammar of film. Then you know, but he's
also something of a rebel. Like in high school he
was actually literally voted the class rebel.

Speaker 3 (21:17):
Well, yeah, if you're really a rebel.

Speaker 2 (21:20):
You're not voted the class voted classbel. So then he
goes off the class rebel, goes off to college at Amherst,
studies English science. But you have to give him this Elizabeth.
After college, he went down to Nicaragua and got involved
in the struggle there, which at the time meant he
taught literacy at a San Denista camp. He like, wow,

(21:43):
so yeah, there you go at him.

Speaker 3 (21:46):
He came around on the rebel thing.

Speaker 2 (21:48):
I think maybe he scared himself because when he came
back to America, he became a bartender. He's like, okay,
I'm gonna go running back to America. Then that's where
he worked with other artistic hopefuls in New York. For instance,
some of his co workers would become members of the
Blue Man group.

Speaker 3 (22:01):
You love them, God do I Now.

Speaker 2 (22:03):
In the late eighties, he starts making for movies, documentaries
at first, and then later he works with Betty Davis
and making of this little short film which is like
wow to me. Later indie films that were like darlings
of the film festival circuit. He gets known for his
film Spanking the Monkey. When he'd originally planned on making
this movie about a guy who works as a fortune
cookie writer. He goes to the NEA, the National domen
of Arts. He g asked them to like, you know,

(22:25):
give him a grant to make Zindi film. They give
him the grant, and then he makes a movie about
a mother's son in sestuous relationship. They'll switch through a
little bit of a challenging film. It was a comedy, dark,
dark comedy. When the NEA saw it, they're like, give
us back the money. Yeah, he hate him, give him
back the money. And he did. Now despite well, I.

Speaker 3 (22:43):
Mean, here's the thing that with grant money, it's very
specific it's for and then how you have to.

Speaker 2 (22:48):
Account for, Like I don't see any fortune c being
written in this story exactly. Despite the high ick factor,
this film was included in the Sundance Film Festival and
it won the Audience Award, So try to make sense
of that. Right after that, David Russell goes off to Hollywood.
Hollywoods oh opens up the doors, like, come in, you know,
do some weird stuff here. Nineteen ninety six, he makes

(23:09):
his first Hollywood movie, a little film called Flirting with Disaster.
I've mentioned this movie before. I recommend it. I don't
know if it holds up. I haven't seen it in
a while, but if you need a life, it's usually
pretty good. It's worth it just to see Richard Jenkins
play a federal agent and at one point he slipped
acid and then he disappears. Then he's found much later
running around in the desert in his underwear, tripping on acid,
talking about the oneness of it all, and it's just

(23:29):
Richard Jenkins is brilliant. So for that alone, anyway, after
that movie did reasonably well. In nineteen ninety nine, he
makes his next movie, Three Kings. You remember that one.
That's a good movie star George Clooney, Marky, Mark Wahlberg,
Ice Cube, and Sophia Coppola's ex husband Spike Jones. That's
right now. There are Army GI's in the ninety one
Iraq War. They try to steal a bunch of Saddamusay's
stolen gold. And the film has this great energy, all

(23:51):
this experimental filmmaking. The look is crazy. He's using like
washed out processes. And it's also the first instance when
David Russell fought one of the stars of his film.

Speaker 3 (24:00):
Ooh which one.

Speaker 2 (24:01):
Yeah, it was David Russell versus George Clooney.

Speaker 3 (24:04):
Oh, that's interesting.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
The fight went down in nineteen ninety eight. George Clooney
was at the time King of TV, the star of
R He's at this point trying to the securest place
in movies. So he's doing this is his third film.
He's also keep in mind a former high school quarterback
who was known to stand up for the little guy. Yeah,
so he's both a physical specimen and then also somebody
who has got a strong backbone. So man a principle
in a world with questionable ethics, is what I'm saying.

(24:26):
So he's ripe to fight David o' russell.

Speaker 5 (24:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
Now, the author Sharon Waxman, she has a book called
Rebels on the Back Loot, great book, and she records
the events in her book, and in her account, she says,
David Russell got so heated he actually headbutts George Clooney. Yeah.
In her response, yeah, Clooney, then get well, I don't
want to ruin the whole story, but the truth of
the matter, what did actually happen? Well, what's not rumor
what is fact? What happened on that film set that day? Well,

(24:51):
we do have George Clooney's version of events, because he
told the whole story to Playboy back in two thousand.
Playboy asked Clooney why he'd wanted to work with the
mercurial filmmaker, and Clooney said, quote, David Russell wrote as
good as a script as I've ever read. I thought
to get it. He wanted a lot of other actors
before me. They went to mel and to Nick Cage.

(25:11):
I wanted to work on this movie. David is in
many ways a genius, though I learned he's not a
genius when it comes to people skills. Now, the natural
follow up question is right there. Yes, And luckily Playboy
was on it, and they said did you learn that
the hard way? And Clindey then goes into the whole
deal of what went down on the film set, and
he says, and I quote I did. He yelled and
screamed at people all day from day one, at me often,

(25:35):
and at someone daily. He throw off his headset and
scream today the sound department me for me, it came
to a head a couple of times. Now, Elizabeth, if
you were wondering, the natural showman Clooney doesn't waste this setup.
He then follows up with a few examples of what
it means to coming to a head with George Clooney.

Speaker 3 (25:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:53):
Once he went after a camera car driver who I
knew from high school. I had nothing to do with
him getting a job, but David began yelling and scream
he had him and embarrassing him in front of everybody.
I told him, you can yell and scream and even
fire him, but what you can't do is humiliate him
in front of people not on my set. If I
have any say about it, like I said, the guy's
got it back for.

Speaker 5 (26:11):
You, right.

Speaker 2 (26:12):
Yeah, Back to Clooney. Another time he screamed at the
script supervisor and made her cry. I wrote him a
letter and said, look, I don't know why you do this.
You've written a brilliant script. I think you're a good director.
Let's not have a set like this. I don't like it,
and I don't work well like this. I'm not one
of those actors who likes things in disarray. He read
the letter and we started all over again.

Speaker 3 (26:32):
So he sees the fight, and he like goes back
to his writ and then what hand like puts his
little like wax stamp on the back and then goes
and hands it to him solemnly.

Speaker 2 (26:43):
George Clooney is known to write a letter, Yeah right.

Speaker 3 (26:49):
David, I'm gonna need you to read this. And then
he stand over him and watch, Yeah, well he read
it or did he just slip.

Speaker 2 (26:55):
It to him and walk? I have even more question totally.
But this man at this point owned a pig that
was the only person to live with. So like he
was like, all right, we're already making decisions that are
like anachronistic. Let's just put it that way now from
what we've learned from the stories we tell each other here,
what do you think happened next? Now that he'd sent
him David or Russell a letter? Do you think David

(27:15):
chilled out and became a professional working in a high
pressure environment.

Speaker 3 (27:18):
I think there's gonna be zero personal growth involvement.

Speaker 2 (27:21):
Yeah no, he did not grow, Elizabeth, because we haven't
even gotten to the point when George Clooney is about
to fight David.

Speaker 3 (27:27):
Right.

Speaker 2 (27:27):
But you know what, rather than me tell you about
the big blowout, Elizabeth, I'd rather you close your eyes.

Speaker 3 (27:32):
My eyes a clone.

Speaker 2 (27:33):
I'd like you to picture it. Elizabeth. It's a pleasant
Tuesday afternoon in Los Angeles. You are presently seated in
your office as you light a few candles to said
a relaxing and welcoming vibe. Your next client is about
to arrive. You check your watch, and that's when you
hear a knock. Somehow, the knock is friendly, warm. If
the amiability of a knock can be felt, that'd be

(27:55):
your read. The door sweeps open, and there stands your client,
one of the most famous men in the world, George Clooney.
You warmly greet him and welcome him to take a
seat on the couch. You take a seat adjacent Tim.
Because you are George Clooney's therapist, you already know what
he plans to talk about. He's been leading up to
it over his last few sessions, so he gets right
to it. He takes a deep breath, size clears his head.

(28:17):
He's ready to get loose. You ask a few preliminary questions,
and then George Clooney says, it's the fight and all
traces back to that. You ask him to go back
and to relive the fight in as much sensory detail
as he remembers. Colooney clears his voice, stretches his legs
out on the couch, tucks an arm behind his head,
and he begins. We were three weeks behind schedule, which
puts some pressure on you, and he was in bad mood.

(28:39):
These army kids who were working his extras were supposed
to tackle us. There were three helicopters in the air
and three hundred extras on the set. George Clooney's eyes
are closed. He's there. He's back in the moment, reliving
it in him being an actor. It's such a dramatic account.
You feel like you can hear the choppers overhead. You
scribble notes as colony goes on. It was a tense
time and a little dangerous too. David wanted one of

(29:02):
the extras to grab me, throw me down. His kid
was a little nervous about it, and David walked up
to him and grabbed him. You imagine the director his
hands grabbing at some terrified extra. You ask, did David
hit the extra? Clooney takes another deep breath, and then
he's back in the desert as he recounts what happened. Next,
he pushed him onto the ground, kicked him and screamed,

(29:22):
do you want to be in this movie? Then throw
him to the ground. The second assistant director came up
and said, you don't do that, David. You want them
to do something, you tell me. David grabbed his walkie
talkie and threw it on the ground. He screamed, shut
the up you when the ad goes you, I quit.
He walked off. It was a dangerous time. This is

(29:43):
more than you expected. But you can tell there's a
layer that George hasn't mentioned yet. What was he thinking?
What was he feeling in that moment? So you asked,
what did you say to David when he assaulted the extra.
You've reached the core of George Clooney's unresolved anger. You
can see him balling up his fist. Then he says,
I was trying to make the work so I went
over and I put my arm around and I said, David,
it's a big day, but you can't shove, push or

(30:05):
humiliate people who aren't allowed to defend themselves. He turned
on me and said, why don't you worry about your act?
You're being a You want to hit me, you want
to hit me, Come on, hit me. Coloney's growing visibly
tense as he relives the fight. You remind him no
one can hurt him. Here in your office, he's safe.
And then you asked, when David called you up, well,

(30:26):
when he insulted you, how did that make you feel?
Coloney shakes his head, and then he's right back in
the desert, narrating their fight, the sand scratching beneath their
feet as the grunting men bump chest. I'm looking at
him like he's out of his mind. Then he started
banging me on the head with his head. He goes,
hit me, you hit me. Then he got me by
the throat and I went nuts. Waldo, my my buddy.

(30:48):
One of the boys grabbed me by the waist to
get me to let go of him. I had him
by the throat. I was gonna kill him, just kill him.
You definitely did not expect the story to go this way.
You thought George Clooney had been a humili on a
films that may be beaten up by his director. Turns
out he scared himself because he nearly killed a man.
You asked, George Clooney, how did it make you feel
when you nearly killed your director? Did you apologize? Clooney

(31:11):
snickers a little. You recognize it from his movies. Then
he says, finally he apologized, but I walked away. By then,
the Warner Brothers guys were freaking out. David sort of
pouted through the rest of the shoot and we finished
the movie. But it was truly, without exception, the worst
experience of my life. George Clooney falls silent, but somehow
a little more at peace hearing it all out loud,

(31:33):
the story he never likes to tell anyone. For a
moment of quiet, you asked, George Clooney, would you work
with him again? He sits up no longer in the desert.
He looks at you. Then he gives you that movie
star grin and says life's too short to work with him.

Speaker 3 (31:47):
Elizabeth, I think that this episode is gonna have the
most bleeps ever.

Speaker 2 (31:51):
Ever, Yeah, as you just learned, George Clooney had a
really hard time getting over nearly killing David A. Russell.

Speaker 3 (31:57):
Could you imagine if he had what if Cloney got
had squeezed the life.

Speaker 2 (32:04):
By mistake, just didn't get there Walda wasn't there in time.

Speaker 3 (32:07):
And he's like, does time and we can't tell this
story because it's a murder.

Speaker 2 (32:11):
Yeah, exactly. He slipped from ninety nine into the Yeah.
Now it took h like George cliney about well more
than a decade to get over this, yeah, like, well
more like two decades. Oh yeah, he didn't just talk
about it with you. His therapist occasionally journals asked him
about it, and he gave a candid answer. In two
thousand and four, six years after their blowout, George Clooney

(32:32):
told Premier Magazine. Remember Premier Magazine, Oh yeah Magazine, if
he ever saw David or Russell again in person, he'd
probably knock his block off, or, as George Clooney put it,
quite literally, quote quite honestly, if he comes near me,
I'll sock him right in the mouth. Oh whoa, mister,
George Clooney, you kissed your mother with that mouth. Now
around that same time, David R. Russell fired back that

(32:54):
one he didn't start their fight or their feud, but
he also wasn't afraid to end it. Where's David ll
put it? I never physically attacked him. If I ran
into him, I'd just say shut the few lying ass. No,
they're feud bubbled a while longer. And then just last
year in twenty twenty four, remember what happened in nineteen
ninety eight, So twenty six years after their initial fight

(33:17):
on that film, said George Clooney was finally ready to
make peace with the murderous place that David Russell pushed
him to that faithful day. In an interview with Variety,
he used David Russell as a shorthand Clooney said, quote,
the older you get, time allotment is very different. Five
months out of your life is a lot. And so
it's not just like, oh, I'm gonna go do a
really good film like Three Kings, and I'm gonna have
to have a miserable like David 'russell making my life hell,

(33:39):
making every person on the cruise life hell. It's not
worth it. Not at this point in my life. You
just have to have a good product. He's still banging
away on that same palm, still using David Russell as
a low water lark.

Speaker 3 (33:50):
Great exactly.

Speaker 2 (33:52):
The Clooney also did acknowledge that he's trying to let
things go. Back in twenty fourteen, he did try to
end dis feud with David Russell. Apparently he said to
the filmmaker, quote, there came a time when I just
said to him, justn't going to go on forever. We've
got to shake hands and let it go. I don't
know if that happens, because from what George Clooney told
the outlet Showbiz for one one, and from what else

(34:12):
he told one one dot com, Clooney added, we put
it behind us, and that's great now, no details, But
in twenty twenty four speaking of variety, he still sounded bitter.
So maybe expect him again next week for your weekly
therapy sessions. Okay, yeah, anyway, this brings us to our
next huge David or Russell blow up, if you can
believe it. The mad filmmaker picked a fight with a

(34:33):
star he'd worked with before. He decided to come at
Lily Tomlin.

Speaker 3 (34:37):
Oh that's a bad movie.

Speaker 2 (34:38):
God just saying these words pisses me off, like how
dare you sir? But dare you come after? American comedy
legend Lily Toms, Oh, punch you in the mouth, but
George Clooney's fist. So let me go cool off a bit,
listen to some ads, chill my monkey mind, and after
this break, I'll tell you about David or Russell versus
Lily Tomlin. Oh good, Elizabeth.

Speaker 4 (35:19):
I know I've never left no I did.

Speaker 3 (35:21):
So.

Speaker 2 (35:21):
Did you ever see the two thousand and four movie
I Heart Huckabees?

Speaker 4 (35:24):
No?

Speaker 2 (35:25):
Now, okay?

Speaker 3 (35:26):
Made me think of Mike Huckabee. I wouldn't watch.

Speaker 2 (35:28):
He reviews on principle. So Dustin Hoffman and Lily Tomlin
are existential detectives. Existential Isabelle Huperre is their rival, a
French existential detective.

Speaker 3 (35:41):
This is a precious by half.

Speaker 2 (35:43):
Jason Schwartzman is an environmentalist who's depressed. Jude Law is
an executive at a major like big box store kind
of thing. Naomi Watts is their spokesmodel, and Marky Mark
Wahlberg is a firefighter who is traumatized by nine to eleven.
All of them hire, all of them hire the existential detectives,
and they all have their like karma be interlinked and interwoven,

(36:04):
and they have to resolve it through each other existentially.

Speaker 4 (36:07):
I am so glad I saw it in.

Speaker 2 (36:10):
The theaters, I'm sure. Now, before I tell you about
the Lily Tomlin versus David or Russell blow up, I
should tell you about him attacking fellow director Christopher Nolan. Oh,
he was about the casting for iHeart Huckabees, So we
should go sequentially. Yeah, So they both wanted golden boy
of the moment, Jude Law for their next films, right,
and so the two directors fought over the very very
pretty boy, like literally fought over him because of Christopher

(36:33):
Nolan is about to make his movie that would make
his name, Memento. He hadn't made it yet, so he's
like coming into Hollywood. They like, people are excited about it.
But they're both young directors making their first films. So
it's two thousand and three, the film is in pre production.
iHeart Huckebyes. David or Russell really wants Jude Law, but
Judelaud already signed on for Christopher Nolan's movie Memento, So

(36:54):
I guess he's gonna play the Guy Pierce part.

Speaker 3 (36:55):
I think that it's good that it shook out the
way it is.

Speaker 2 (36:58):
I totally because he kills them.

Speaker 3 (37:00):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:00):
Anyway, the two filmmakers were at some Hollywood party. David
or Russell sees Christopher Nolan. He's like, he's got my actor.
So he decides to go up to him and get
his actor back from him, or from him just in general.
He confronts Christopher Nolan in front of all these guests,
and then when he doesn't get the answer he wants,
which is you can have Jude Law, he throws an
arm around Christopher Nolan's neck and puts him in a
chokehold until he relents and gives him Jude Law.

Speaker 3 (37:21):
Oh violence, Yeah, to me, we have We've got crimes,
we got a lot of assault.

Speaker 4 (37:25):
Battle.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
He demands artistic solidarity from his colleague with him at
a choke hold. Yeah, he says, give him Jude Law
so he can save his film, like I need him
to save my phone.

Speaker 3 (37:35):
At that point, if I'm I'm never going to give
him up.

Speaker 2 (37:39):
At that point, people are shocked. Everyone who's in the party.
The story ping pongs through Hollywood the next day, but
that same next day, Jude Law drops out of Memento
and signs on to iHeart Huckabees.

Speaker 3 (37:50):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (37:50):
Yeah, the story is so precious though, because Judelaw calls
David Russell from a boat that's quote crossing the Atlantic.
He discusses his Huckabees' role at length end quote. Now
this said, David Russell film from the alternate casting of
Jim Carrey, if there was a role, if Jim Carrey
and Jude lock him play, you haven't decided what that
role is yet. Different. Yeah. So anyway, that was just

(38:12):
the beginning because reading up on his antics, I kept thinking,
there's no way in hell I could get away with
any of the behavior that I've so far heard from
this guy, and it's only about to get worse. Like
some of what he does would probably get me a
visit from the LAPD. Like I'm probably sure i'd test charges. So,
as The New York Times reported back in two thousand
and four, quote to get the performances he was after,
mister Russell did all he could to raise the level

(38:32):
of tension on set, unapologetically goating, shocking, and teasing as actors.
That's not the part about the LAPD. I'm talking this
next part. Yeah, so can we get an example what
she means there?

Speaker 3 (38:42):
Great question, Elizabeth Pleasure, such pointed, hard hitting and perfect question.

Speaker 2 (38:48):
Yeah, I know, it's just incredible. I'm on July thirty first,
two thousand and three. The film was on set shooting,
and during a break while his crew worked on the
next setup, the director was entertaining his cast with a
quote GRAPHI recounting of a baby passing through the birth canal.
He's never given birth, but he's just talking about I've
reading this last night on the toilet. I get. I
don't know. So what he said is all dressed lit,

(39:11):
the camera's ready. Actors take their place on the set.
They go over blocking and they're having a confab about
the blocking, and so they have Lily Thomas seated at
a desk. He's got her legs up on the desk.
He's supposed to be reading through a file. Dustin Hoffman
is behind her. He's at two huge chalkboards like you'd
find in a school classroom, and he's just working on that.
Jason Schwartzman is seated opposite the desk from her, facing

(39:33):
Lily Tomlin and facing Dustin Hoffman, and he's again the
client position, listening to their proposal, their pitch, what have you,
and so they're going over, how are we going to
do this scene? Right? So at this point I remember
Dustin Hoffman, Lily Tomlin. They're playing Existential Detectives. Jason Schwartzman
is their client and he hates Jude Law, the corporate executive,
who is another client of the same Existential Detectives. And

(39:54):
so this is the existential quandary they're trying to work out.
The karmas are clearly linked. So we're talking about like
the foibles and frailties of human life. And you got
David Russell going, how do I add more attention to
this mix? Yeah, anyway, they're all on set all but
Jude Law and Lily tom is having a hard time
with David Russell's direction, so she snaps back that she's
not getting the answer she needs from him. And I
know all this because there's a video of this onset

(40:16):
exchange he got leaked. And it's not actually not just one,
but two videos got leaked. You can find them on YouTube.
I watched them, so you don't have to, Elizabeth. Yes,
let me lay it out like this. So Dustin Hoffmann,
as I said at the jockboard, Jason Schwartzman, he now
starts standing. He's opposite the desk, so he's milling about
in front of the camera. Lily tom was still seated.
David Russell's just seated below the camera, out of view,
but he's on the set so you can hear his voice,

(40:38):
so they're responding to him. Lily Tomlin has an issue
with the blocking and some stage business about the file whatever.
So to give you an accurate rendition, I created a
transcript of his rant thank you. His opening statement is you,
I'm just trying to help you. Do you understand me.
I'm being a collaborator. I'm just trying to help you
figure out the picture. Okay, oh? Exit doesn't hoffin, No,

(41:02):
he just sort of ambles off the set. When Lily
Tomin gets called a bitch to her face, doesn't say anything,
just ambles off the set. Jason Schwartzman just sits there,
diligent leagues. You know, good actor, because at this point
David Russell pops up now and he's fighting mad. He
dramatically sweeps all of the papers and whatnot off of
Lily Tomlin's desk and there's someone like a staffer who's
seated by the wall of the set and they get hit.

(41:22):
I think it's a gaffer because they have all this
gaffer tape hanging off their belt, so they get hit
by everything that's being swept off. It's mostly papers, but
there's a couple of hard objects in there. They don't
scream or yell or anything, but it's like they get
hit by a bunch of stuff whatever on set workplace violence.

Speaker 3 (41:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:37):
In response to her director's sudden outburst, Lily Tomlin jumps
up right and you know, because she doesn't know what
he might do next, if he's gonna like flip the
desk or whatever, and she doesn't want to be seated
in this awkward and vulnerable position. And he is far
from done. So David Russell then says to Lily Tomlin,
I'm not here to be yelled at. I worked on
this thing for three years not to have some yell

(41:58):
let me in front of them. But I'm trying to
help you figure it out yourself.

Speaker 4 (42:04):
Are you the direct real.

Speaker 2 (42:06):
Sort of Lily Tomlin then says, rather calmly, well, I
have to do that what but basically figure it out herself.

Speaker 3 (42:13):
You don't have a conversation with that. You either walk
or you give him the business end of a Louisville slugger.
There's no between.

Speaker 2 (42:20):
David Russell jumps immediately on her words and says, yeah, yourself,
to which Lily Tomlin now replies, good. Why don't you
just your whole movie now? David or Russell interjects, I
wrote this for you, and Lily Tomlin again calmly responds
why don't you your whole movie? Because that's what you're doing,
and David or Russell takes issue with her assessment of

(42:40):
how he's ruining his movie, so he fires back, why
don't you shut up before you're doing a one woman
show again. At this point, he storms off the set,
but he can be heard yelling in the background, why
don't you act like a grown up?

Speaker 4 (42:54):
Oh? The iron is God, it's rich.

Speaker 2 (42:57):
So then, through the magic of movies, he reappears on
the set because he walks through a set door and
continues to shout at Lily Tomlin, Yeah he's no Like
he's on stage right and he's yelling, you're a grown up.
Act like a grown up. You're not a baby, You're.

Speaker 4 (43:11):
A grown up.

Speaker 2 (43:12):
I'm here to help you. That's all I was doing,
was trying to help you. Is he is he talking
to himself? He seems like he should be talking to himself.
At that point, they speak over each other and becomes
unintelligible until Lily Tomlin finally says in a pause, because
you're yelling. Really sets off David or russelling. He yells back,
do you want yelling? Do you want that? At this point,
Jason Schwartzman, who's now in the line of fire because

(43:35):
he's the director's just flailing his arms. He pops up.
He also leaves the set, so now it's just him
and Lily tom When David Russell Lily Toman on the set,
David Russell's not done yelling. He shouts, did I yell
you before? Right now?

Speaker 6 (43:46):
No?

Speaker 2 (43:47):
I never yelled at you, and She's like the irony
is lost on him entirely, right, but not Lily Tomlin.
She starts laughing in his face and then he At
this point he flees the set. He knocks over a
standing lamp like like a two year old throwing a tantrum,
throws it to the ground like like a thin like
the lamp, and walks off the set watching it all
go down. I was like, you can do that if

(44:08):
I don't think I would ever work anywhere ever, again,
if I did even like a third tenth, one hundred
no David wrestling, he hits a crew member with the stuff,
he scares dusting off the he broke props. I mean,
if I was working at a restaurant and I didn't
even like I broke a mop, right, there's high odds.
Like if I started yelling at my boss and telling
everybody to like f off, I would probably spend the

(44:29):
night in jail, Like if my boss wanted to press charges, Like,
but you act like this on a film set in Hollywood,
Everyone's like, you have to understand he's a genius. Like
I can't tell my restaurant boss like, hey, you understand
I mistreat everyone here because I'm a genius. I just
doesn't play the same.

Speaker 3 (44:43):
I feel like you reach. I'm surprised that Lily Tomlin
for having such a long career.

Speaker 2 (44:51):
Almost all of them take the tone though.

Speaker 3 (44:52):
Yeah, but like I just feel like you could Like
I can see young people not wanting to set those boundaries.
But you reach a certain age you would think and
you're like.

Speaker 2 (45:02):
No, Dustin Offfen didn't say anything.

Speaker 4 (45:04):
We got we.

Speaker 2 (45:06):
Got oscar winners. Oh yeah, he's not going to defend
a woman based on his history. But I'm thinking we have,
like you know, people who have secure positions in the industry.
You're not choosing not to say.

Speaker 3 (45:14):
Anything, ye poets, soul I can't.

Speaker 2 (45:20):
Well, Also, Elizabeth, I think what we're skipping past where
I'm over, I'm not really pointing out it well, is
this is the power of cinema, or really it's the
power of a camera, because it's like they say, if
you don't want to get busted for prostitution, just make
sure there's a camera in the room. Boom. Now it's
a porn set. Totally legal, totally cool. So back to
David R. Russell versus Lily tom If you ask either

(45:41):
of the participants about their kerfuffle, they both dismiss it,
which is basically what we've just been talking about. They
act like it was nothing, business as usual, like this
is just how it works in Hollywood. David or Russell said, sure,
I wish I hadn't done that, but Lily and I
are fine now. Lily Thomas said practically the same thing.
She said It's not a practice on his part or
my part. I'd rather have someone human and available and
raw and open, don't give me something cold or cut off,

(46:03):
or someone who considers themselves dignified. To further clarify, oh,
I demanded any so to further clarify that, Lily Tomlin
spoke more to her on set blow up with David
or Russell. She further excused his semi criminal tendencies. She
put in a twenty eleven interview with The Outlet movie
line quote, David is a very mercurial person, and that's

(46:25):
part of why he's so brilliant. He almost reflects the movie.
I did two movies with him, and I heard Huckeybes
was so crazy, so all over the place. I think
he kind of embodies intuitively, whatever he's trying to make happen.
It was just crazy, crazy stuff. We were always doing
something and then we'd get manic and crazy and I
just flipped out on him, and then he flipped out
on me, And you know, stuff goes on, but it's nothing.

(46:46):
It's like family. If you have a big fight in
your family. Usually he's treated that way on the set.
We don't want to misbehave believe me. It's embarrassing. It's
it's humiliating, you know, because you just lose it. You
act like a crazy person. But I adore David. I
adore him as a talent. A lot of my friends said, well,
you won't work with him again. I said, of course

(47:07):
I would. I adore him. I love him. He's brilliant.
That's Elizabeth. Now I'm going to come in here and
tell you where to stick it and throw a laptop
at producer Dan. You guys will have to understand, this
is just my passion, my genius. You can't press charges.

Speaker 3 (47:21):
You would just see you look out the window, see the.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
So what's a ridiculous takeaway herebeth.

Speaker 3 (47:30):
Ah, I'm still processing that whole rant. Right o, God,
I think you know. There's a show out called the Studio.

Speaker 2 (47:41):
Oh yes, Seth Rogan really really good. Yeah go check it.
It's hilarious. App it's a great view of Hollywood too.

Speaker 3 (47:48):
That's what I'm saying. Like it's it's very permonal because
it's just the look of it, and like the way
it's shot in the color PILM whatever. But like the
way they've created these characters and get you in these
like emotional swings and the tension. But one of the
kind of recurring themes is how fake everyone is in Hollywood,

(48:09):
and so everyone's.

Speaker 4 (48:10):
Working in angle self serving and so.

Speaker 3 (48:12):
They'll take this kind of garbage behavior because they're willing
to do that in order to get this paychecker, in
order to maneuver to get into a different film, or
just to be in a certain circle. And I just
that is really hard for me to get my head around, because,
like I said, you come to a certain age in
your life where you're just like, no, no, I put
up boundaries. No, it's not worth it, like in the

(48:35):
Grand Scheme, and it's everywhere.

Speaker 2 (48:37):
It's the agents, the producers, the directors, the stars. I mean,
it's not just like, oh, just the stars, and it's everywhere.
Anyone knows power. They start to excuse this behavior.

Speaker 3 (48:45):
Right, Saren, what's your reading?

Speaker 2 (48:48):
Oh I didn't prepare that. Uh well, okay, I'll just
I'll say this honestly, all jokes. Society Elizabeth is wild,
like doing the show and talking about ridiculous criminals all
the time, and then you read the news and you
read story sometimes and it's like, wait, wait, how is
this not a crime yeah, right, and then like, how
is this okay? Which just goes to show you that
the law is more like guidelines than hard and fast rules.

Speaker 3 (49:07):
And it doesn't apply to everybody, right.

Speaker 2 (49:08):
I mean, you go and try to choke George Clooney
and you see what happens to you. Is that it?
That's it there, That's all I got for you this time.
All right, Elizabeth, you're in the mood for a talk back?

Speaker 4 (49:18):
Oh yes, please, can you favor us with one?

Speaker 2 (49:24):
Oh my god, ill get.

Speaker 5 (49:35):
Hi.

Speaker 7 (49:35):
Saron and Elizabeth make from Perth, still doing the Masters.
I'm putting my desk together in my new office that
my partner and I have been spending a week putting together.

Speaker 5 (49:46):
And anytime I'm doing anything to do with UNI, I
think of you, lovely people, Sarah, Elizabeth, Dave the rude dude.
So shout out to my man Blake, and I'd love
having you here with me these two years that are
tough but awesome.

Speaker 3 (50:02):
Take it slazy, We're so bad.

Speaker 2 (50:05):
We can be there for you.

Speaker 3 (50:06):
I love megs updates on the Master's program.

Speaker 2 (50:09):
Good luck we got you back on this.

Speaker 3 (50:11):
Oh yeah, of course, but that's awesome. I love that
and I love a good office.

Speaker 2 (50:17):
You do, I do well as always. You can find
us online Ridiculous Crime on blue Ski and uh Instagram
and uh fanger and we also have our website ridiculous
Crime dot com. I think we were just nominated for
a Hugo Award, so very excited about that. A sci
fi award. That's big time for me. Also, we love

(50:37):
your talkback, so please go to the iHeart app downloaded,
leave a talk back and maybe you'll hear your voice
and you could say something cool. We'll be like, yeah,
looks at you.

Speaker 3 (50:44):
You rock.

Speaker 2 (50:45):
So also emails if you like a Ridiculous Crime at
gmail dot com. And we have our new YouTube channel,
so go check that out. It's Ridiculous Crime Pod at YouTube.
Tell your friends, tell your family, you know, tell your
enemies maybe they need a laugh. And uh, there you go.
That's all I got for you. So thanks for listening.
We will catch you next crime. Ridiculous Crime is hosted

(51:09):
by Elizabeth Dutton and Zaron Brenette, produced and edited by
George Clooney's corner man Dave Kustin and Starry Annaly's Rucker
as Judith. Research is by Lily Tomlin's fight trainer Marissa Brown.
Our theme song is by Taya Leoni Truthers, Thomas Lee
and Travis Dutton. The host wardrobe provided by Botany five,
guest hair and makeup by Sparkleshot and The Miss Stood

(51:30):
on the Day. Executive producers are David or Russell's sparring
partners Ben Bolin and Ol Brown.

Speaker 3 (51:43):
Why Say It One More Time? Crime?

Speaker 1 (51:48):
Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio four more podcasts
my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.