April 17, 2023 • 51 mins
Ivan IV had a grudge against Moscow's nobles ever since they poisoned his mother. So when he was crowned Russia's 1st all-powerful Tsar, he started cutting off their power (by cutting off their heads). His 1st wife Anastasia helped him keep his cool, but when the nobles poisoned her too, Ivan really started to get Terrible.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey everybody. Hey, welcome back to Ridiculous Romance.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Oh yeah, I'm oh well, no after you, Yeah, after me?
Speaker 1 (00:11):
How about you introduced me. That's Eli and this is
my lovely wife Diana.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Oh, I didn't know you were going to do fun descriptors.
I would have done something. Well, well, handsome darling husband, Eli.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
That's lovely. I don't know why you need me to
prompt it, just to use some nice adjectives. Well, oh,
getting a real peak behind the veil today, everybody.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
You have a very high self esteem and I don't
need to worry about you.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Oh is that what you think? Does that explain the
last few years?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
In fact, I want to take you down a peck.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Oh my god. You know I can't handle that. I'm
very unstable.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Well I know that's why I'm not very mean to you. Well, hey,
watch you.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Like I said, real peak behind This is what it's
like when the mics aren't on. No, we've been having
a good time over here, haven't we. Yeah, going out
to a friend's birthday. Get to that age where birthday
parties take place during the day, Yeah they do.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
It's even just grown people with no children, and it's
still like look, I'm good from three to seven pm.
And that's about as much as you're gonna get from me.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
I told her. I was like, I, you know, I
don't know if we'll be out too late because you know,
we've got a lot of work to do. And she's like, oh,
I don't want to be out late. It's like, oh, yeah,
we're all older now.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Oh it's so funny.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Yeah, actually I like being out late. Yeah. If I
can sleep in till noon the day of and the
day after a party, I could go late. No, I'm
with that.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
With that, and I stay up late at home all
the time. I mean it's just the idea of like
full face of makeup, nice outfit until two am.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
It's not like we're happening. Yeah, we ain't going to
bed at nine pm.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
What I call it revenge bedtime.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Procrastination, Yeah, something like that. Yeah, where it's.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Like you're not having enough free time or personal time.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Or whatever during today. Yeah, so you.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Just like make yourself stay up even if you're not
even doing anything you want to do, just like scrolling
on your phone.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
I'll teach you bring for being busy all day. I'm
going to ruin your night.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
I mean like, Okay, that's only going to hurt you.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
But yeah, and it does and does well. Speaking of revenge,
speaking of revenge for real, today we're talking about a
good one. I'm very into this story. Oh yeah, and
it's a name we all know and love. I've In
the Terrible, Oh or i've In the fourth, the first
Czar of Russia. But actually i've In the Terrible as
(02:47):
a nickname I learned as actually something of a mistranslation,
because back in the sixteenth century they called him Ivan Grozni,
which does directly translate to the English word terrible, but
at that time it more accurately meant awe inspiring or
powerful or courageous, something like that. But coincidentally, Ivan was
(03:09):
also pretty terrible, so you know they still Yeah, but
for a while, Ivan was actually a pretty great ruler,
mostly due to the loving relationship he had with his
first wife, Anastasia Romanov. Not the Anastasia Romanov that you're
thinking of, right, But let's dive into it. Let's go
(03:32):
ahead and hear about the first of Ivan's eight marriages,
his war with a dozen noble families, a few poisonings,
a couple of fires, and the first unified Russia.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Let's go Hayla friends, come listen.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Well, Eli and Diana got some stories to tell. There's
no match making a romantic tips. It's just about ridiculous
relation ships.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
A lover might be any type of person at all,
and abstract asatore a concrete wall. But if there's a
story where the second glance, who put it and show
ridiculous romance.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
A production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
So we start our story with Vasily the Third, who
had been ruling what was known as the Grand Duchy
of Moscow or Muscovy for twenty years alongside his wife
Solomonia Saburova. And these two were doing a great job.
I mean, this is sixteenth century Russia, early fifteen hundreds
(04:31):
at a lot of scattered kingdoms, not necessarily all united
under one Russian banner. Yet territory under Vasili the Third
and Solomonia was being expanded. They recaptured land which had
been taken by neighboring countries one hundred years earlier, and
all of their oppositions quickly getting shut down. They were
just doing, you know, just what you're supposed to do.
(04:53):
But twenty years in he realized that he never got
around to producing an air whoopsie, which I mean you know,
we know in monarchies from this show especially, people don't
like that so much.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Not at all, like make one or bring one or
do something.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Yes, however you gotta do it, give that one guy's
a girl as a boy in color king whatever you
gotta do. What. Well, the old fashioned way of getting
pregnant was not working for these two, so Solomonia tried
the new fashioned way, which was going to consult with
sorcerers and taking pilgrimages to holy sites. Vasili and Solomonia
(05:28):
even appealed to God for a child by having a
few churches built.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Ah, yes, the sixteenth century version of IVF building church.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Well. Surprisingly, none of these things was working, and eventually
the grand Prince's boyars, who were basically these like highly
influential Russian nobles, told him you know what, buddy, you
gotta ditch this wife and get the new one because
you need a baby.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
You need baby. Well, the Russian Orthodox clergy did not
like this. They were always fighting with the boy yard
oh right, and I mean they probably didn't like divorce
like any church. Sure, but Vassili the third decided to
go through with a divorce, and in November of fifteen
twenty five, their marriage was annulled and Solomonia was taken
to a convent. Russian chronicles tend to say it was willingly,
(06:21):
but other historians say it was forcefully.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
I have a hard time thinking that this woman is like, oh,
my husband, the ruler of all the lands, is divorcing me. Sure,
I'm happy to go to a convent instead.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Right, I don't think. I don't think willingly. This is
the one.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
She was very religious, so she might have considered it
her duty and like, Okay, well, if I can't produce
a baby, God's telling me I gotta go do this instead.
But I don't know.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
I don't know. There was at least a part of
her who was like, I want to do this.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Well.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
She was eventually brought to the Intercession Monastery in Suzdl,
which was one of the churches that she and Vastly
had built to try to get pregnant in the first place.
Oh not a full circle, I guess right. Rumors persisted
that she actually gave birth to a child while inside
the monastery only months after their annulments. Whops, and the
(07:13):
rumor became the foundation for a Russian folk hero named Kudeyar,
who's sort of like a robin Hood type.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Vasili the third did marry again, this time to a
princess named Elena Glinskaya. She was from a family of
boyars named the Glinskis, but other boyars, who were the
ones who encouraged him to remarry in the first place,
did not like this choice because Elena and the Glinskis
were Catholic, not Russian orthodox Man.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Every country in this period of time is having a real,
oh yeah, real problem with Catholicism.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
But Vasili was obsessed with this girl, so much so
that he trimmed his beard when he went to see
her so that he would look younger. Now, I mean,
I don't know about you, but I regularly do this myself.
You gotta keep it high and tight. It takes a
few years off, you know. But apparently this was a
huge no no in Muscovite customs. You got your beard,
(08:09):
shows your rage, you gotta grow it out. Yeah. But
none of this mattered, because ultimately Vassili the third and
Elena Glenskaya did marry and they had their first son,
Ivan the fourth, named for his grandfather Ivan the Great,
who was the previous grand Prince of Muscovy. Unfortunately, Vassili
(08:29):
died only three years later from an infection shortly after
the birth of their second son, Yuri. On his deathbed,
Vasili transferred rulership of Moscovy to his son Ivan the
fourth before his death in fifteen thirty three, but of course,
at only three years old, somebody was going to have
to rule in Ivan's stead, so the next five years
(08:52):
are referred to as the Reign of Elena. Oh I
like it. I like that, Yeah, Ayne of Elena. It
sounds like a It sounds like a se. Someone try
rain Elena.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
It should be rain, a rain by Elena. Dry rain
by Elena. It's like Margot Robbie, like running through a
hallway with like a curtain. There's like soft filters everywhere
by Lena.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
By Elena.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Anyway, I'm ready to buy it, is what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
It smells like the Russian countryside.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Oh wait, now I don't know. I'm not so sure. Well, anyway,
the reign of Elena was going on to the next
five years, and Vassili's brothers tried to challenge Elena for
her role, but they both ended up locked up and
Elena did a bomb ass job ruling in Muscovy. She
brought a currency reform that unified money across the state.
(09:43):
She signed an armistice with longtime enemy Lithuania. She had
new city walls built around Moscow, she protected travelers from bandits,
and she paid to have Muscabite prisoners freed. But she
also had a super high drama government and might have
been having a fling with both a boyar and an
(10:04):
Orthodox bishop.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Oh my god, messie, for real, those are like two
sworn enemies, I.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Know, and she would go from one to the other
and just talk shit about the other guy.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
It's really we've been watching The Great a little bit,
and that's of course way later in time than this
is happening, but you get the same kind of impression
of just like there's high up nobles and there's high
up priests, and they are always scheming against each other
in this world. They so are.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
But Elena only ruled for five years before dying at
twenty eight years old. Her son, Ivan's governess was arrested,
and some historians think the Shoe Whiskeys, which is a
family of boyars who seized power after her death, were
behind the whole thing. Recent forensics have found supportive evidence
(10:51):
that she was poisoned.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Oh man, this one no natural death, no no. And
it's one of those situations where you're like, oh, this lady,
and then this family rushed in and was like, we'll
be in charge. Okay. Kind of suspicious that you've been
you just swept in right.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Also, you had to be real careful with your food. Oh,
my dad, back in the day, my god, everybody was
out to poison someone.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
So now little Ivan, who was only eight years old,
was being raised by the Boyar family, who probably poisoned
his mother, and they basically took over control of Muscovy
to rule in his stead while he was a kid,
and he later wrote letters about how poorly he and
his little brother Yuri were treated by the Shuisky family,
(11:37):
who quote brought us up like vagrants. I suffered for
want of governments and food. But when Ivan was thirteen,
he decided he was going to be a real thirteen
year old boy and start testing the limits of his
power over everyone. I mean, he was still technically the
ruler of Muscovy, after all, his father had named him
(11:58):
in charge. A feast in fifteen forty three that saw
some of the highest ranking Muscovites in attendance, and just
after the main course, this little teenage tyrant turned to
a guy named Prince Andre, who was the most powerful
of the Shuisky family and the guy who was effectively
the de facto ruler of Moscow right now, and he
(12:21):
just said, you and your family, you've completely mismanaged the country.
Someone ar asked him and executed him. Oh my god,
just like that. And the guards stood up and they
were like, yes, sir, and they marched right over. They
snatched up Prince Andrew and took him away, and according
(12:41):
to history dot com, some say that Prince Andre was
then torn apart by dogs, but the more credible history
is just that his jailers beat him to death. Oh
he so either way, I even stepping in and being like,
by the way, I'm in charge now.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Yeah. Well, I guess he was like, man, y'all don't
feed me and stuff, but if I ask for something,
they do give it to him. Oh I guess I'll
just keep asking.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
At the end of the day. The Royal guard listens to.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Me, very good to know.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Well, after that, everyone was like, oh, okay, I guess
Ivan's in charge now, so excited about that love that
for you and me and everyone. But in an effort
to distract this hopped up, you know, little teenager, the
boy yars decided to just throw girls at him. Oh sure, like,
what does a thirteen year old boy want ladies?
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Now?
Speaker 2 (13:36):
In fact, the noble families were all trying to outperform
each other by finding the best girls for him. And
because of this, teenaged Ivan was rumored to take a
different mistress every day for almost four years.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Oh my god, can.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
You imagine going back in time to thirteen year old
Eli and being like, you're gonna have a different girl
every day?
Speaker 1 (13:57):
If thirteen year old Eli talked to one girl, uh
well it wasn't talking. Let's just say it with a
stammering mess of syllables.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Well yeah, but in this scenario, teenaged Eli's in charge
of all of muscovy.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Yeah, I'm just it's hard to imagine that for the
teenage Eli, I know, because he was barely in charge
of all of his own bedroom chaos everywhere.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Well, so you would have sat and chatted with him,
had like maybe not so much sex.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
No, I would have The first girl would have come
in and I was Hi, Hi, good, I'm what's your name?
Your name's well mine, I'm Eli, And oh you know what,
you know? What is it hot in here? I'm just
gonna get some water. I'll be, I'll be, I'll be Eli.
Oh ship, and then that would be and then then
I would never leave my room for the next four years.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
All right, Well, I guess Ivan was not like that.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
No, that's a short list of differences between me and
I'm in the terrible and I'd say that.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
That's just first, I know, I guess I guess if
you had, if you had ordered a man beat to
death already, you might feel more confident. Well, anyway, the
boy ours learned from all of this throwing ladies at
him for four years that I've been loved cheerful, lively
and passionate women, which is like, who doesn't, I mean,
(15:20):
come up? Yeah, But historian Alexander Bushkov points out that
quote from time immemorial. In Russia, it was believed that
true adulthood does not occur upon reaching a certain age,
but only after marriage. A single person was considered to
be not even quite full grown.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Wow, so you could be.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Like an eighty year old spinster, and they'd be like,
look at that baby walking around. Shit, just a child
after all, So all the boyar families also started scheming
to try and be the ones who would find his wife.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
So, after getting slapped around by the boyars for most
of his life and then distracted with women as they
ruled in his stead, I'm in the fourth stepped up
and it was time for him to take his place
as the Grand Prince of Russia, just like his father
on his sixteenth birthday in fifteen forty six. But look,
(16:15):
ivan we've already seen is unpredictable, and he's volatile, and
he had been pushed around, his mother had been assassinated.
He did not like these shwhiskies and all these other boyars,
thinking that they were the ones who were really in charge.
So at his coronation he said, hey, the what I
am not Grand Prince of Russia. I am the Tzar
(16:39):
of all Russia. And this is the first time that
Russia had one supreme ruler in a tzar. And in
this he sent a symbolic message to everyone that yes,
I am supremely the not to be questioned. Now the
Orthodox metropolitan or the bishop of the Orthodox Church whose
name was Makarius, who had also become one of Ivan's
(17:03):
closest advisors, was just immediately like, yes, King, whatever you say,
you do the thing. You're in charge now totally. And
so the church was totally on his side. So at
this point the Boyers have no other choice but be like, uh, yeah, yeah, cool,
no doubt, no doubt, no, no, no, that sounds pretty good.
They're probably shitting themselves as they realized how they've been
(17:23):
treating this kid who was going to be their leader one.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Day, all right, which they should have thought. I mean,
as I said, they should have thought about that from
the beginning, I mean dumb. Well, now that he was
sixteen and the ruler of Russia, he really needed to
get married number one classical royal problem, and the Boyars
had been searching all over other kingdoms for his bride.
But Ivan told them I wish to marry a Russian bro.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Oh, he says, I heard. You can just send out
for them in the mail. They just show up like
uber eats.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
No problem. I can pick from colors of him, I
can pick from size.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Where's the menu, give me the catalog?
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Well, anyway, Metropolitan Macarius, the Czar's number one brown noser,
you know, in reference to him wanting to marry a
Russian woman said quote, God himself inspired you with this intention.
I'd bless it in the name of the heavenly fathers.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
This guy's always just like, yes, I'm I'm your number
one cheerleader.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
The church got you boy, total yes, ma'am.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
So.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Only two weeks after his coronation, an invitation went out
for all the hottest ladies in Russia to come an
audition to be Tzar Ivan the fourth Bride, and every
noble family and the Grand Duchy of Moscow was invited
to submit their daughters for consideration, and in the end
as many as fifteen hundred girls showed up hoping to
(18:45):
be missus Ivan. That's crazy. It's like the world's first
and biggest dating show.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Oh my god, what's it called. I haven't.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
That's pretty good. I showed it like a czar one,
like oh yeah, like a like flavor of love, but
likear version.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Car of love would be the easy one.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
But maybe it's like the czar the bachelor's art.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Now, don't go breaking my zart. Oh, I mean, if
you must, now I must not.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
I like striving for ivans, driving for IVN, driving for
iving or doors So you think you can marry the czar?
Speaker 1 (19:24):
These fifteen hundred women, they're all striving for driving.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Who will get the rose and who will be sent home?
Speaker 1 (19:32):
First? Up, Katerina, what's your favorite root vegetable? Katerina Ali,
I'm sorry. We'll be moving on to Bettanova, Bettanova, what's
your favorite root vegetable in Russia? It's okay, that's the
number two answer. And finally, another girl named Katerina, what's
(19:58):
your favorite fame root vegetable in the Russia? Beat that
it is you in that's the answer. We would wait things.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Ooh, I thought you wanted my favorite.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Not the right hand, I wanted Catterina's favorite.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
I want. I'm so sorry, Well, I want to beat
the competition.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
Hey see which girl beats the competition and which girls
go krembling back to their families.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
This show is going to be canceled.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Yeah, this show did not make it very far.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Well, of course, you know, and they got all these
fifteen hundred girls, they all you know, hoping to get
the rose at the end or whatever, and all the
boy ares were pushing their you know, their girls for
the usual reasons right, powerful unification of families, merging land,
investing their dowries and royalty, all that stuff. But the
eventual winner would surprise everyone. And we'll meet Ivan's first
(21:07):
wife right after this break. Welcome back to striving for riding.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Russians like the Russian Tasmanian devil.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Well, he's their main voice every so he does all
the voiceover work there.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
So the invitation that went out to every noble family
in Russia to bring their daughters out for this contest
was not so much an invitation as it was a
direct order. According to a Russian collection of histories that
I found on a website called sato I, the letter
everyone got said quote, when this letter of ours come
(21:48):
to you, if you have daughters, then you would immediately
go with them to the city for a review. And
under no circumstances would you have these daughters concealed, which
one of you will be in great disgrace with the
bizarre and face execution. Send the letter amongst yourselves without
delaying even an our. Jeez, this very chain letter, like
(22:12):
I know, I send them forward.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
This to seven people or get.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Bad luck for the next ten years. Good bad luck.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
So fifteen hundred young women were brought to Moscow to
be judged and what Alexander Bushkov calls quote the first
all Russian beauty contest. Sign me up, I know, I
bet a lot of them are really hot.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Yeah, sign me up to compete. Not to compete, but
just to attend judge.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Yeah, just to attend. You don't even want to judge.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Oh, I don't want to judge. I don't like judging women.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
I appreciate that about you.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Yeah, but I'll watch a big line if pretty women
walk past me. Of course, sign me up for that.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Who wouldn't. Now, some of these ladies were pretty excited
about this. The prospect of marrying the Czar must have
sounded like a pretty sweet deal, sure, especially if they
didn't know anything about it, like he could be anything
in there. But of course some of them were already
in love with someone else and they just had not
gotten married yet. Oh that would suck, which kind of
reminds me of Catherine Parr from our last episode. Oh yeah,
(23:09):
she was gonna marry Thomas Seymour and then King Henry's like,
actually I'd like to marry you. She was like, well,
I guess I got to marry the king. I mean,
I can't know. So these fifteen hundred girls were first
brought before a team of governors who like whittled the
stack down to a more smaller manageable number. Oh so
it's like the pre auditions from ya can Idol, right right.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
You're like, oh, I get to perform for Simon. No no, no,
no no.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Not got to see if you're good TV first.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
So now about a large party's worth of the prettiest
young women in Russia were brought before Ivan and they
all flirted and giggled and tried to get his attention.
But there was one girl in the corner of the
room who didn't say too much.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
That's right. Her name was honest, That Sia Ramanov, the
Zakaria Yureva.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Too many names.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
It's a lot of names, but she's from a lot
of fans families. Uh. And like we said, this is
not Anastasia, and in fact, the name Anastasia doesn't exist
in Russia. I saw a lot of angry Russian YouTubers saying,
announced Anastasia, that's it's anesthesia. So that's what we'll go
with the proper pronunciation.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Yeah, you're welcome Russia.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Well, this girl was about seventeen years old, so about
the same age as Ivan, and her modesty at this
party had already been ridiculed by the boyers and the
other girls. She was just a little too modests, you know, Tyrie. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
She wasn't out there shagging her boobs for Ivan and
trying to get to the frontal line. So all the
(24:41):
boyers like weren't impressed with this girl. And maybe it
was Ivan's just total hatred of these guys that made
him cross the room and take this girl's hand. He
had made his choice, and many sources say that her
family was noble but not particularly important, but historian l. E.
(25:02):
Morozova said that she might even have been chosen because
of her quote nobility and proximity to the grand Duke's court.
Her father had been an advisor of Ivan's grandfather, Ivan
the Third, but he died before he could do very much,
so he wasn't, like, you know, a well known guy.
But her uncle was actually a very trusted advisor to
(25:24):
Ivan's father, Vassili. He was even nicknamed the Eye of Vassili,
So Ivan was probably pretty well acquainted with this family
of Romanov's well.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
They married on February third, fifteen forty seven, officiated by
who else but Metropolitan Macarius. He was probably like so excited,
and as Ivan was Russia's first czar, Anastasia became the
first Russian czarina. She was famously beautiful at a young age,
with dark eyes and long, thick, dark blonde hair. But
(25:57):
she was also a sweet, small, polite, affectionate girl, and
everyone was kind of worried how this little sweetie was
gonna hold up married to Ivan, who was, you know,
known to be pretty reactive, violent and controlling. Yeah, sure,
but remember Ivan always liked cheerful, lively girls and honest
Essia actually brought out the best in Ivan. The fourth
(26:18):
Russian histories say that quote Anastasia instructed and led him
to all sorts of virtues.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
An English explorer and diplomat who spent much of his
life in Russia wrote, quote, this queen was so wise, virtuous, pious,
and influential that she was revered and loved by all subordinates.
Ivan Vassilievitch was young and quick tempered, but she ruled
him with amazing meekness and intelligence. Not bad, pretty good, honest,
(26:48):
Essilla Well.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Ivan and Anastasia were incredibly happy together and they seemed
to be deeply in love. But things got off to
a rocky start for Ivan and his rain with the
Great Fire of Moscow in the summer of fifteen forty seven,
just a few months after his coronation and their marriage.
At this time, most of the city of Moscow was
(27:12):
built out of wood, and when the fire broke out,
nearly a third of the city was destroyed. Between two
and three thousand people died. And if you remember the Shuiskys,
that family of boyars who ruled while Ivan was a child,
Well they're still around causing trouble, and they decided they
were going to investigate the fire, and in their investigation
(27:35):
they found out that, oh my goodness, what do you know,
their sworn enemies, the Glinskis, started it. If you remember
the Glinskis, that was Ivan's mother, Elena Glinskaya, who the
Shwiskys had poisoned back in the day while her mother
was still around, Anna Glinsky, and they claimed that she
had used sorcery to start the fire, because there was
(27:58):
already this local folklore that she was like a witch
who could transform into a bird, according to the historian
Uri Bosin, So, the sh Whiskeys suggested that she tore
out human hearts, boiled them, and then turned into a
bird and flew around the city sprinkling this cursed blood
(28:18):
water down on houses, which immediately erected into flames.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
All right, I'm gonna say something.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Go ahead.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
This is obviously bullshit, but it's also so metal, like,
oh my god, taking lady tearing out human hearts and
boiling them and then like turning into a bird and
sprinkling blood water that turns into flames. I mean, holy,
that's a whole like that could be a whole metal
music video right there.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
And my response when the sh Whiskys tell me this
is and you want to go after this woman? You
want to? I say, we get futter with it. What
she wants?
Speaker 2 (28:57):
I think I need to hire right, maybe rain these
powers in for myself. Well, instead of that, the sh
Whisky's got people all worked up, and soon an angry
mob was storming around the city looking for Glinsky's, any Glinski's,
and they found Yuri Glinsky hiding in a cathedral, dragged
(29:19):
him out to the streets and stoned him to death.
They raided Glinsky homes, they killed the Glinsky's serfs. According
to Bushkov, the mob even killed random people that were
suggested to be associated with the Glinskis without kicking any
of their identities. Oh my god, that is so.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Crazy, Like I think that guy was the Glinsky's bartender.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Last night, right, the historian rites quote, A mass of
people is stupid, and when the people are stupid, it
is easy to control them, which is what the sh
Whiskys took advantage of.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
I'm a historian to tell me that I would.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Get that embroidered. A of people is stupid. That's like
the most real thing I've heard.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
That's I love that. It's my one of my favorite
movie quotes in Men in Black, Yes, Timi Lee Jones,
A person is smart, but people are stupid, and.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
You know it goes on yep, and he ain't wrong.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
He ain't wrong.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
So then the mob turned towards Ivan's palace, where they
knew his grandmother, the sorceress Anna Glinsky, was hiding. Ivan
is only seventeen at this point. He's just crowned Czar.
He's never seen a huge mob of angry villagers with
pitchforks before. This is a real unprecedented situation.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Yeah, but Ivan did not hand over his grandmother to
the angry mob. Now. Posen says that Ivan was quote
forced to give generous promises to pacify the protesters, and
then the mob just kind of fizzled out over about
a week. But Bushkov writes that Ivan wanted to set
an example and quote ordered the instigators to be seized
(30:56):
and immediately executed, and the crowd fled to their home.
Holmes He's saying Ivan learned from his early days with
the Shwhiskies that if you're timid, they will walk all
over you, but when you show force, a lot of
the times they'll flinch. Playwright and historian Edward Radzinski said
Ivan the Fourth was quote the true grandson of Ivan
(31:17):
the third. He already understood his people a kingdom without
a thunderstorm, like a horse without a bridle. So you
need this big, thunderous person to come in and you know,
kind of put you in your place.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Yeah, ah, I guess, well, I mean, you know, anyway,
The point is Ivan was ready to be terrible. He
was like, one day this is gonna be my whole thing.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Yea.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
But in fact, his early years were not terrible. And
many attribute that largely to his marriage with Anastasiev. Their
early rule was marked with peaceful reforms and modernizations. He
formed the Zemski Sabor, which was Russia's parliament. He established
a standing army called the Streltzi, and he unified religious
(32:06):
rituals across the country.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
I was thinking about that. It's interesting to think when
you've got a large country with churches, you know, hundreds
of miles apart from each other, How do you know
they're doing the same thing, right?
Speaker 2 (32:17):
I guess that's a good point.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Nobody ever came in and said, hey, mass goes like this,
you know.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
I mean, I guess they all get trained right in someplace.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Yeah yeah, but then you kind of go off on
your own, and you know, just gradually it turns into
your own thing. I guess, well, that's why I.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Always hated it when they were like, oh, the Bible
used to be written, you know, in whatever language the
common people did not speak. Oh, so that they had
to go to a priest and told like what God's
word was or whatever, and so the priest could tell
you anything. They could literally be like, oh, yeah, this
Bible says you have to sleep with me. Once to
meet or something, and they'd be, well, I guess this
is in the book, you know. Like well, Ivan also
(32:55):
took a look at the mess the Shwhiskys had made
after the fire, and you know, he already hated these
boyars plenty, but this just like added to it. So
he started working on reforms that curbed their power. He's like,
I want you all to be able to do less,
you know. So a special council was established called the Isbranayarada,
(33:16):
which allowed lower class representatives to advise the czar on
what was going on out in these streets there you go,
which is pretty cool, like the common man around him.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Yeah, I'm sick of you rich people going on. Yeah right,
and I mean mostly involved in the Isbranaya Rada was
still pretty rich people. It wasn't the one percenters, but
he was talking to the middle class.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Now at least, I was gonna say, it must have
been at least landowners, like probably not a lot of peasants.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
He actually, yeah, he did put some some laws into
place that actually curbed peasants' abilities to like move around
so much. But in general, he was like, let me
stop making this such a you know, where only the
rich people are allowed to have any say things.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Yeah yeah, what.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
About the slightly less rich people. No one's thinking to them, poor.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
People, no one cares, but the slightly restless rich people
to get more representation.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Well, look, obviously Ivan is a complicated guy. And who
knew that this little slice of Russian history would be
so dense and dramatic.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Oh yeah, no one could guess that.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Always thought Russian history was supposed to be boring, so easy.
And well, we should, however, zero in on this marriage
and the family that they started, and the boatload of
tragedy that followed. So let's take a break and we
will look at all that right after this.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
Welcome back everyone.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
So honest, Asia and Ivan the Fourth, as we've said,
are very much in love. There's just a really good
relationship going on here. And while she was not directly
involved in policy, she did help him keep a cool
head while Ivan was off czarring to see you created
this embroidery workshop, very famous. A lot of women came
to work for her, like the best artists in town.
(35:07):
And there's this famed style of facial sewing that they
do in sixteenth century Russia, and they would embroider these
works that reflected state events or army victories under Ivan's rule,
and religious symbols as well, and quite a few of
these works apparently are preserved in museums to this day.
So if you're at a Russian art museum, keep an
(35:28):
eye up for some of Anssia's embroidery. Yeah, but look, look,
I know that we all want this happy couple to
just sit around and stitch fancy art and bring down
rich nobles and live happily ever after. Right, I'm sorry, folks,
this is a Russian story. If you haven't heard so,
you know it's gonna be tragic.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
Oh man. Yes, Together, Ivan and Anastasia had six children.
The first two were daughters, Anna and Maria, but each
of them died at less than a year old, which,
as in many of our stories, it's just not that uncommon,
especially in Russia at the time. Bushkov wrote that infant
mortality was hi throughout Europe and Asia at this time,
(36:13):
with some women giving birth every year and often only
one in four surviving well. After this, they gave birth
to a son, Dmitri, in fifteen fifty two. The next spring,
Ivan got terribly sick and even he thought he would
not make it. He's like, this is the end, and
all the boyard in fighting between the families meant that
(36:34):
most of them had never liked Anastasia, and he knew
that she would be in a lot of trouble if
he died without an air.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
Oh yeah, so he asked.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
The boy yards to swear loyalty to the new infant son, Dmitri,
and a lot of them were like no, damn, which
is like, do you remember how he had that guy
beat to death.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Some of them straight up apparently saw how sick he
was and was like, I'm not gonna do anything you
say because you'll be dead tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
Oh so he was already so powerless in your mind.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Well that was stupid because maybe had a pure spite
alone I've been made a full and miraculous recovery and
started ordering them executions.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Baby, oh he sure did. Oh, Like he.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Promised as a child, He's gonna kill you if you
say no.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
But sadly, tragedy struck again when the royal family took
a pilgrimage to the Curillo Belzyorski monastery up north. The
whole expedition had to cross these makeshift gangways across the
Sphere River and the baby, Dimitri's nurse was holding him
as two of us to see his relatives held the
(37:42):
nurse's arms to sort of steady her as they crossed
this makeshift bridge. But suddenly the gangway collapsed and all
four of them were thrown into the river, and while
the three adults made it safely out, tragically the baby
had drowned. Now, some historians have questioned how this makeshift bridge,
(38:04):
this gangway, which was heavy and sturdy and used all
the time and allowed the entire rest of the party
to cross safely, suddenly flipped over while the Czar's only
infant Air was crossing. But you know, no accusations at
the time were really made. Obviously huge tragedy, and Ivan
was furious, but no one was necessarily crying murder that
(38:28):
we know of at the time.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Ooh, but it's like a little conspiracy.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Yeah, people are looking back at it and going, that's
really weird.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
That is very strange.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
Well, the next year, fifteen fifty four, honest Acio gave
birth to their fourth child, a son who they gave
the name Ivan. And this one actually live hey for
a while, Okay, his story is tragic too, but he'll
last at least until the next episode. Oh, their weekend
rest easy for a minute. And in fifteen fifty six,
(38:59):
another daughter named Yevdokiya was born, but she only lived
two years.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Oh awful, my god.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
It must be just you're just sad all the time.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Their sixth and final child was a son named Theodor,
born in May of fifteen fifty seven, and he would
live even longer than his older brother Ivan. So all
in all, only two of Ivan and Honestessia's children lived
past infancy. But by the time she had given birth
to Feodor, Honestessia had fallen very ill. Some historians attribute
(39:31):
this to her being quote weakened by frequent childbirths, but
Bushkov wrote that again, people were having babies constantly back then.
Six kids in ten years was quote, even by the
standards of the sixteenth century, below the average norm.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Right, And she's between eighteen and twenty eight when she's
having these babies. There, it's not like she was frail
or right anything like that. So, but she kept getting
sicker and sicker. Then in fifteen six, another fire broke
out in Moscow. This one wasn't quite as intense or
(40:06):
deadly as the fifteen forty seven fire, but clouds of
smoke were pouring into the palace, and Anasticia was moved
to nearby village because of her health concerns. Historian Nikolay
Karamzin wrote that Ivan stayed back and quote extinguished the
fire himself. Being exposed to the greatest danger. He stood
(40:27):
against the wind, showered with sparks, and with his fearlessness,
aroused such a zeal in noble officials that the boyars
threw themselves into the flames, carried water, climbed.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
Roofs inspirational leader time.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
Yeah, the fire was extinguished, but the Sarina's condition continued
to worsen. On August seventh of fifteen sixty, honest Assia
died quietly at twenty nine years old. They say that
she died really peacefully, in quietly, in bed, almost embarrassed
(41:03):
that she was drawing so much attention to herself.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Oh my goodness, yeah, little sweetie she was.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
She was the sweetest.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Now. Ivan had called all the best doctors to care
for her, but no one could save her. At her funeral,
Ivan could barely walk behind her casket and had to
be held up by his little brother Yuri and one
of his cousins. He cried at her coffin and tore
at his hair. The sight was so tragic that even
many of the boyars started weeping as well, and Metropolitan
(41:35):
Macarius burst into tears as her coffin was lowered into
the grave. Kadamzine wrote, quote, the common sorrow was never
portrayed stronger. Not just one courtyard, but all of Moscow
buried its first, most amiable queen. Everyone was crying, and
the poor the beggars were the most inconsolable man. Yeah,
(41:59):
that's so sad to see him like keening.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
He was just a wreck, they said, Yeah, really heartbreaking.
I think all of his goodness was with her, you know,
like everything that made him feel like a good person.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
Right, so maybe even just kind of not even consciously,
but kind of mourning that part of yourself now that
it doesn't exist anymore.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
Yep, Because I think he had a lot of rage
and sadness already, and she quelled that she made him
feel at peace, And now I think he, yeah, like
you said, maybe even subconsciously recognized I'm gonna be awful
right from now on. Nothing's going to make me happy anymore.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
I actually read something about that about grief, where it's
like you're not just grieving the person who's gone, but
who you were with that person, and that relationship that
you had with that person, and all the special things
about just the two of you.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
This is so true, and I think.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
That's really so special because it is like a part
of yourself is gone.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
Yeah, yeah, who are we if not are connections to
other people in a lot of ways. While all of
the doctors that Ivan called out also could not determine
a cause of death, but he didn't need them. He
knew what the cause of death was. It was the
same thing that happened to his mother. Honest Asia was
(43:24):
poisoned by the Boyars. He didn't even need evidence. He'd
been locked in a battle with these families like the Shuiskys,
and they never liked the idea of bowing to her family,
the Romanovs. She had been growing sick for a while, gradually,
just like his mother did when she died. And after this,
(43:44):
Ivan the Terrible started to earn his nickname. His wife,
like we said, who had always cooled him, was gone.
He was now angry, paranoid, and vengeful. Someone described him
coming out of his room a week later, and he
just looked different, and his eyes were sunk, and his
skin was yellow, and he just had this scowl on
his face. As Karamzine writes, quote, people did not yet
(44:09):
know what Anastassia had taken with her to the grave.
Here's the end of the happy days of Ivan and Russia,
for he lost not only his wife but also his virtue. Yeah,
dark days ahead, right.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
Well, the question remains now was she actually poisoned or
was this just Ivan's paranoia and resentment against the boy.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
Art understand you?
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Yeah right, But he didn't. I mean, he just said
it didn't heed proof. I was like, well, maybe you
should get proved.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
Well.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
In the year two thousand, four hundred and forty years
after her death, T. D. Panova, the head of the
archaeological department at Moscow State Historical and Cultural Museum, led
a study on honest Asia's remains. Together with forensic specialists.
They found some pretty shocking results. So the best material
(45:03):
to determine the accumulation of mercury in the body is
the hair, and in Zarena honest Esssilla's hair, they found
mercury concentrations at four point eight milligrams, which is over
ten times the toxic amount for human.
Speaker 1 (45:19):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
Even fragments of the stone sarcophagus she was buried in
came up with mercury readings.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
Oh, they had pumped her full of.
Speaker 2 (45:27):
It, full of that shit.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
Oh my god, Oh my god. Now, some of the
medicines at the time were also mercury based, so it
had been previously suggested that maybe she just accidentally overdosed
like that, which has happened before. I can't remember, but
I feel like we've even mentioned that on this show before.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
Maybe, So I do know that in cleaning out my
grandfather's medicine cabinet we found some medicine with mercury in it,
good time, from like a million years ago whatever. My
cousin was like, why is this still here? What we
need to get?
Speaker 1 (45:58):
How do you even throw the s of it safely?
Speaker 2 (46:00):
Right? Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
Well, and with these quantities that they were finding in
Anastasia's body, modern scholars are basically totally certain that yes,
she was in fact poisoned. Now, unfortunately we'll never know
who specifically carried out this order, but we do know
one thing Czar, Ivan the Fourth was right, Yeah, yes
(46:25):
she was poisoned, and yes he's gonna do something about
it now. Unfortunately, he also did not know exactly who
did this, so his rage just kind of went in
all directions. But he definitely was not having it with
the boyers. No more. Nope, in his life he would
take seven more brides. Now, none of those marriages lasted
(46:48):
nearly as long as his and Anesthesias, and none of
them were as passionate or loving. But the reign of
Ivan the Terrible was just getting started, all triggered by
the murder of not only his mother but his most
beloved wife. Now, obviously there's so much to say about
Ivan and Anastasia. It's been a full episode. We've been
(47:11):
here nearly an hour now already. So we got seven
more wives to get to, and I think we'll get
to them all in one episodeties aren't quite so intense,
but we will come back next time with the rest
of Ivan's marriages.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
Man, yeah, I've been straight up was like, I don't
even need to do an investigation. Y'all killed my wife.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
I know you weren't subtle about it.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
And now I'm like, well, who are the boyars who
were crying at her funeral?
Speaker 1 (47:41):
Yeah, well that's that's kind of what's tough about it,
is there everybody's a boy are There's like, they're boy
as all over the place. Boy are here? Boy are there?
Boy or boy are everywhere? But the Shwhiskys were the
main ones that keep coming up in my research, but
there were a few other families whose names really popped
up a lot. So there was probably some still that
liked her, totally on her side, but the real power
(48:05):
grabby ones, these are the ones to look out for.
Speaker 2 (48:08):
Well that's so, I'm like, were they crying thinking like, Oh,
he's really gonna just beat the shit out of me
by dogs, He's going to have his grandma sprinkle some
blood flames on the oh names, there's something this might
have been a bad idea, guys.
Speaker 1 (48:23):
Oh No, Grandma Glinsky uh vanished from record. But she
was not killed. She They think she just kind of
escaped somewhere and took another name and lived out her
life just.
Speaker 2 (48:34):
Fine, smart, very smart, or like a sorcerer. She just
made herself disappeared.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
She turned into a bird and flew away away to
torment some other town children and eating their hearts. I
was fascinated by this story. I didn't know nothing about
Ivan the Terrible, No me neither.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
I've never heard of him.
Speaker 1 (48:52):
Actually, you know, I don't think heard the name, you know,
just like maybe the game itself.
Speaker 2 (48:58):
I feel like you might be right and I've heard it,
but I know there's like several like Peter the Greats
for example, so like there's a like, well, I wonder
which one, but it's really cool. I'm always loved to
spend time in Russia, I know, because it's just such
an interesting country. I feel. I just feel like it's
so it's kind of alien in a lot of ways.
Speaker 1 (49:18):
Culturally, Yeah, you can tell there's this raw survival kind
of mentality behind everyone. Yeah, and we're in the cold,
we're you know, resources are sparse. They had to they
had to make it work, and they had to and
you know, they used that cold, they had that ice
in their veins.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
It feels right well, and like the quote about needing
a thunderstorm, Yeah, I think it's still still pretty true
culturally there. And again I'm not Russian, so happy to
be corrected. But you know, like Putin's always run around
like look at my I'm riding this horse and I'm
really strong, you know, like there's this macho there's a
machismo to who they see as being powerful, right, and influential.
(49:58):
That's very important for that perception. I think even Olga
of Kiev had it. Remember her, That's right, she would
like the thunderstorm.
Speaker 1 (50:05):
Oh my gosh, a lot of people up and buried
them and burned them alive.
Speaker 2 (50:09):
I was speaking of birds that cause fires, that's right.
Speaker 1 (50:13):
She tied a little flames to pigeons and they like
flew into houses and lit him on fire.
Speaker 2 (50:17):
Right, Yeah, yeah, did that. That's why I'm like, I
wonder if they I don't. I don't remember when. I
think that was way before this, so maybe they got that.
Speaker 1 (50:25):
Yeah, it was way before this.
Speaker 2 (50:26):
So the Legend of Kiev.
Speaker 1 (50:29):
If but you haven't heard, we did her story in
an earlier episode and it is.
Speaker 2 (50:33):
Awesome, so fun.
Speaker 1 (50:35):
Go check it out. But thanks for tuning in for
this one. Yeah, they're excited to bring you the first
of Ivan's eight wives, and like I said, we'll come
back with I'm pretty sure all seven in the next episode.
Speaker 2 (50:46):
We're Russian to get that done. You're welcome.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
Don't have a Moss cow Man while you're waiting.
Speaker 2 (50:53):
I love it. Yeah, perfect, Perfect.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
Tell us your Russia puns and give us your feedback
on this episode or any episode or suggestions for new
ones in the future. We would love to hear from you.
You can email us at ridic Romance at gmail dot
com that's.
Speaker 2 (51:08):
Right, or we're on Instagram. I'm at danam.
Speaker 1 (51:11):
Boone and I'm at O Great.
Speaker 2 (51:12):
It's Eli and the show is at ridic Romance.
Speaker 1 (51:15):
So please follow us along, drop us a review. We
love hearing from you and we can't wait to bring
in the next one. Love you, bye bike.
Speaker 2 (51:23):
So long friends, it's time to go.
Speaker 3 (51:25):
Thanks for listening to our show. Tell your friends, nabors, uncles,
and dance to listen to our show, Ridiculous Romance.
Hey everybody. Hey, welcome back to Ridiculous Romance.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Oh yeah, I'm oh well, no after you, Yeah, after me?
Speaker 1 (00:11):
How about you introduced me. That's Eli and this is
my lovely wife Diana.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Oh, I didn't know you were going to do fun descriptors.
I would have done something. Well, well, handsome darling husband, Eli.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
That's lovely. I don't know why you need me to
prompt it, just to use some nice adjectives. Well, oh,
getting a real peak behind the veil today, everybody.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
You have a very high self esteem and I don't
need to worry about you.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Oh is that what you think? Does that explain the
last few years?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
In fact, I want to take you down a peck.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Oh my god. You know I can't handle that. I'm
very unstable.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Well I know that's why I'm not very mean to you. Well, hey,
watch you.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Like I said, real peak behind This is what it's
like when the mics aren't on. No, we've been having
a good time over here, haven't we. Yeah, going out
to a friend's birthday. Get to that age where birthday
parties take place during the day, Yeah they do.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
It's even just grown people with no children, and it's
still like look, I'm good from three to seven pm.
And that's about as much as you're gonna get from me.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
I told her. I was like, I, you know, I
don't know if we'll be out too late because you know,
we've got a lot of work to do. And she's like, oh,
I don't want to be out late. It's like, oh, yeah,
we're all older now.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Oh it's so funny.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Yeah, actually I like being out late. Yeah. If I
can sleep in till noon the day of and the
day after a party, I could go late. No, I'm
with that.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
With that, and I stay up late at home all
the time. I mean it's just the idea of like
full face of makeup, nice outfit until two am.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
It's not like we're happening. Yeah, we ain't going to
bed at nine pm.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
What I call it revenge bedtime.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Procrastination, Yeah, something like that. Yeah, where it's.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Like you're not having enough free time or personal time.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Or whatever during today. Yeah, so you.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Just like make yourself stay up even if you're not
even doing anything you want to do, just like scrolling
on your phone.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
I'll teach you bring for being busy all day. I'm
going to ruin your night.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
I mean like, Okay, that's only going to hurt you.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
But yeah, and it does and does well. Speaking of revenge,
speaking of revenge for real, today we're talking about a
good one. I'm very into this story. Oh yeah, and
it's a name we all know and love. I've In
the Terrible, Oh or i've In the fourth, the first
Czar of Russia. But actually i've In the Terrible as
(02:47):
a nickname I learned as actually something of a mistranslation,
because back in the sixteenth century they called him Ivan Grozni,
which does directly translate to the English word terrible, but
at that time it more accurately meant awe inspiring or
powerful or courageous, something like that. But coincidentally, Ivan was
(03:09):
also pretty terrible, so you know they still Yeah, but
for a while, Ivan was actually a pretty great ruler,
mostly due to the loving relationship he had with his
first wife, Anastasia Romanov. Not the Anastasia Romanov that you're
thinking of, right, But let's dive into it. Let's go
(03:32):
ahead and hear about the first of Ivan's eight marriages,
his war with a dozen noble families, a few poisonings,
a couple of fires, and the first unified Russia.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Let's go Hayla friends, come listen.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Well, Eli and Diana got some stories to tell. There's
no match making a romantic tips. It's just about ridiculous
relation ships.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
A lover might be any type of person at all,
and abstract asatore a concrete wall. But if there's a
story where the second glance, who put it and show
ridiculous romance.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
A production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
So we start our story with Vasily the Third, who
had been ruling what was known as the Grand Duchy
of Moscow or Muscovy for twenty years alongside his wife
Solomonia Saburova. And these two were doing a great job.
I mean, this is sixteenth century Russia, early fifteen hundreds
(04:31):
at a lot of scattered kingdoms, not necessarily all united
under one Russian banner. Yet territory under Vasili the Third
and Solomonia was being expanded. They recaptured land which had
been taken by neighboring countries one hundred years earlier, and
all of their oppositions quickly getting shut down. They were
just doing, you know, just what you're supposed to do.
(04:53):
But twenty years in he realized that he never got
around to producing an air whoopsie, which I mean you know,
we know in monarchies from this show especially, people don't
like that so much.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Not at all, like make one or bring one or
do something.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Yes, however you gotta do it, give that one guy's
a girl as a boy in color king whatever you
gotta do. What. Well, the old fashioned way of getting
pregnant was not working for these two, so Solomonia tried
the new fashioned way, which was going to consult with
sorcerers and taking pilgrimages to holy sites. Vasili and Solomonia
(05:28):
even appealed to God for a child by having a
few churches built.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Ah, yes, the sixteenth century version of IVF building church.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Well. Surprisingly, none of these things was working, and eventually
the grand Prince's boyars, who were basically these like highly
influential Russian nobles, told him you know what, buddy, you
gotta ditch this wife and get the new one because
you need a baby.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
You need baby. Well, the Russian Orthodox clergy did not
like this. They were always fighting with the boy yard
oh right, and I mean they probably didn't like divorce
like any church. Sure, but Vassili the third decided to
go through with a divorce, and in November of fifteen
twenty five, their marriage was annulled and Solomonia was taken
to a convent. Russian chronicles tend to say it was willingly,
(06:21):
but other historians say it was forcefully.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
I have a hard time thinking that this woman is like, oh,
my husband, the ruler of all the lands, is divorcing me. Sure,
I'm happy to go to a convent instead.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Right, I don't think. I don't think willingly. This is
the one.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
She was very religious, so she might have considered it
her duty and like, Okay, well, if I can't produce
a baby, God's telling me I gotta go do this instead.
But I don't know.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
I don't know. There was at least a part of
her who was like, I want to do this.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Well.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
She was eventually brought to the Intercession Monastery in Suzdl,
which was one of the churches that she and Vastly
had built to try to get pregnant in the first place.
Oh not a full circle, I guess right. Rumors persisted
that she actually gave birth to a child while inside
the monastery only months after their annulments. Whops, and the
(07:13):
rumor became the foundation for a Russian folk hero named Kudeyar,
who's sort of like a robin Hood type.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Vasili the third did marry again, this time to a
princess named Elena Glinskaya. She was from a family of
boyars named the Glinskis, but other boyars, who were the
ones who encouraged him to remarry in the first place,
did not like this choice because Elena and the Glinskis
were Catholic, not Russian orthodox Man.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Every country in this period of time is having a real,
oh yeah, real problem with Catholicism.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
But Vasili was obsessed with this girl, so much so
that he trimmed his beard when he went to see
her so that he would look younger. Now, I mean,
I don't know about you, but I regularly do this myself.
You gotta keep it high and tight. It takes a
few years off, you know. But apparently this was a
huge no no in Muscovite customs. You got your beard,
(08:09):
shows your rage, you gotta grow it out. Yeah. But
none of this mattered, because ultimately Vassili the third and
Elena Glenskaya did marry and they had their first son,
Ivan the fourth, named for his grandfather Ivan the Great,
who was the previous grand Prince of Muscovy. Unfortunately, Vassili
(08:29):
died only three years later from an infection shortly after
the birth of their second son, Yuri. On his deathbed,
Vasili transferred rulership of Moscovy to his son Ivan the
fourth before his death in fifteen thirty three, but of course,
at only three years old, somebody was going to have
to rule in Ivan's stead, so the next five years
(08:52):
are referred to as the Reign of Elena. Oh I
like it. I like that, Yeah, Ayne of Elena. It
sounds like a It sounds like a se. Someone try
rain Elena.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
It should be rain, a rain by Elena. Dry rain
by Elena. It's like Margot Robbie, like running through a
hallway with like a curtain. There's like soft filters everywhere
by Lena.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
By Elena.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Anyway, I'm ready to buy it, is what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
It smells like the Russian countryside.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Oh wait, now I don't know. I'm not so sure. Well, anyway,
the reign of Elena was going on to the next
five years, and Vassili's brothers tried to challenge Elena for
her role, but they both ended up locked up and
Elena did a bomb ass job ruling in Muscovy. She
brought a currency reform that unified money across the state.
(09:43):
She signed an armistice with longtime enemy Lithuania. She had
new city walls built around Moscow, she protected travelers from bandits,
and she paid to have Muscabite prisoners freed. But she
also had a super high drama government and might have
been having a fling with both a boyar and an
(10:04):
Orthodox bishop.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Oh my god, messie, for real, those are like two
sworn enemies, I.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Know, and she would go from one to the other
and just talk shit about the other guy.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
It's really we've been watching The Great a little bit,
and that's of course way later in time than this
is happening, but you get the same kind of impression
of just like there's high up nobles and there's high
up priests, and they are always scheming against each other
in this world. They so are.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
But Elena only ruled for five years before dying at
twenty eight years old. Her son, Ivan's governess was arrested,
and some historians think the Shoe Whiskeys, which is a
family of boyars who seized power after her death, were
behind the whole thing. Recent forensics have found supportive evidence
(10:51):
that she was poisoned.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Oh man, this one no natural death, no no. And
it's one of those situations where you're like, oh, this lady,
and then this family rushed in and was like, we'll
be in charge. Okay. Kind of suspicious that you've been
you just swept in right.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Also, you had to be real careful with your food. Oh,
my dad, back in the day, my god, everybody was
out to poison someone.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
So now little Ivan, who was only eight years old,
was being raised by the Boyar family, who probably poisoned
his mother, and they basically took over control of Muscovy
to rule in his stead while he was a kid,
and he later wrote letters about how poorly he and
his little brother Yuri were treated by the Shuisky family,
(11:37):
who quote brought us up like vagrants. I suffered for
want of governments and food. But when Ivan was thirteen,
he decided he was going to be a real thirteen
year old boy and start testing the limits of his
power over everyone. I mean, he was still technically the
ruler of Muscovy, after all, his father had named him
(11:58):
in charge. A feast in fifteen forty three that saw
some of the highest ranking Muscovites in attendance, and just
after the main course, this little teenage tyrant turned to
a guy named Prince Andre, who was the most powerful
of the Shuisky family and the guy who was effectively
the de facto ruler of Moscow right now, and he
(12:21):
just said, you and your family, you've completely mismanaged the country.
Someone ar asked him and executed him. Oh my god,
just like that. And the guards stood up and they
were like, yes, sir, and they marched right over. They
snatched up Prince Andrew and took him away, and according
(12:41):
to history dot com, some say that Prince Andre was
then torn apart by dogs, but the more credible history
is just that his jailers beat him to death. Oh
he so either way, I even stepping in and being like,
by the way, I'm in charge now.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Yeah. Well, I guess he was like, man, y'all don't
feed me and stuff, but if I ask for something,
they do give it to him. Oh I guess I'll
just keep asking.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
At the end of the day. The Royal guard listens to.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Me, very good to know.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Well, after that, everyone was like, oh, okay, I guess
Ivan's in charge now, so excited about that love that
for you and me and everyone. But in an effort
to distract this hopped up, you know, little teenager, the
boy yars decided to just throw girls at him. Oh sure, like,
what does a thirteen year old boy want ladies?
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Now?
Speaker 2 (13:36):
In fact, the noble families were all trying to outperform
each other by finding the best girls for him. And
because of this, teenaged Ivan was rumored to take a
different mistress every day for almost four years.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Oh my god, can.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
You imagine going back in time to thirteen year old
Eli and being like, you're gonna have a different girl
every day?
Speaker 1 (13:57):
If thirteen year old Eli talked to one girl, uh
well it wasn't talking. Let's just say it with a
stammering mess of syllables.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Well yeah, but in this scenario, teenaged Eli's in charge
of all of muscovy.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Yeah, I'm just it's hard to imagine that for the
teenage Eli, I know, because he was barely in charge
of all of his own bedroom chaos everywhere.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Well, so you would have sat and chatted with him,
had like maybe not so much sex.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
No, I would have The first girl would have come
in and I was Hi, Hi, good, I'm what's your name?
Your name's well mine, I'm Eli, And oh you know what,
you know? What is it hot in here? I'm just
gonna get some water. I'll be, I'll be, I'll be Eli.
Oh ship, and then that would be and then then
I would never leave my room for the next four years.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
All right, Well, I guess Ivan was not like that.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
No, that's a short list of differences between me and
I'm in the terrible and I'd say that.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
That's just first, I know, I guess I guess if
you had, if you had ordered a man beat to
death already, you might feel more confident. Well, anyway, the
boy ours learned from all of this throwing ladies at
him for four years that I've been loved cheerful, lively
and passionate women, which is like, who doesn't, I mean,
(15:20):
come up? Yeah, But historian Alexander Bushkov points out that
quote from time immemorial. In Russia, it was believed that
true adulthood does not occur upon reaching a certain age,
but only after marriage. A single person was considered to
be not even quite full grown.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Wow, so you could be.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Like an eighty year old spinster, and they'd be like,
look at that baby walking around. Shit, just a child
after all, So all the boyar families also started scheming
to try and be the ones who would find his wife.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
So, after getting slapped around by the boyars for most
of his life and then distracted with women as they
ruled in his stead, I'm in the fourth stepped up
and it was time for him to take his place
as the Grand Prince of Russia, just like his father
on his sixteenth birthday in fifteen forty six. But look,
(16:15):
ivan we've already seen is unpredictable, and he's volatile, and
he had been pushed around, his mother had been assassinated.
He did not like these shwhiskies and all these other boyars,
thinking that they were the ones who were really in charge.
So at his coronation he said, hey, the what I
am not Grand Prince of Russia. I am the Tzar
(16:39):
of all Russia. And this is the first time that
Russia had one supreme ruler in a tzar. And in
this he sent a symbolic message to everyone that yes,
I am supremely the not to be questioned. Now the
Orthodox metropolitan or the bishop of the Orthodox Church whose
name was Makarius, who had also become one of Ivan's
(17:03):
closest advisors, was just immediately like, yes, King, whatever you say,
you do the thing. You're in charge now totally. And
so the church was totally on his side. So at
this point the Boyers have no other choice but be like, uh, yeah, yeah, cool,
no doubt, no doubt, no, no, no, that sounds pretty good.
They're probably shitting themselves as they realized how they've been
(17:23):
treating this kid who was going to be their leader one.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Day, all right, which they should have thought. I mean,
as I said, they should have thought about that from
the beginning, I mean dumb. Well, now that he was
sixteen and the ruler of Russia, he really needed to
get married number one classical royal problem, and the Boyars
had been searching all over other kingdoms for his bride.
But Ivan told them I wish to marry a Russian bro.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Oh, he says, I heard. You can just send out
for them in the mail. They just show up like
uber eats.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
No problem. I can pick from colors of him, I
can pick from size.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Where's the menu, give me the catalog?
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Well, anyway, Metropolitan Macarius, the Czar's number one brown noser,
you know, in reference to him wanting to marry a
Russian woman said quote, God himself inspired you with this intention.
I'd bless it in the name of the heavenly fathers.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
This guy's always just like, yes, I'm I'm your number
one cheerleader.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
The church got you boy, total yes, ma'am.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
So.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Only two weeks after his coronation, an invitation went out
for all the hottest ladies in Russia to come an
audition to be Tzar Ivan the fourth Bride, and every
noble family and the Grand Duchy of Moscow was invited
to submit their daughters for consideration, and in the end
as many as fifteen hundred girls showed up hoping to
(18:45):
be missus Ivan. That's crazy. It's like the world's first
and biggest dating show.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Oh my god, what's it called. I haven't.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
That's pretty good. I showed it like a czar one,
like oh yeah, like a like flavor of love, but
likear version.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Car of love would be the easy one.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
But maybe it's like the czar the bachelor's art.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Now, don't go breaking my zart. Oh, I mean, if
you must, now I must not.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
I like striving for ivans, driving for IVN, driving for
iving or doors So you think you can marry the czar?
Speaker 1 (19:24):
These fifteen hundred women, they're all striving for driving.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Who will get the rose and who will be sent home?
Speaker 1 (19:32):
First? Up, Katerina, what's your favorite root vegetable? Katerina Ali,
I'm sorry. We'll be moving on to Bettanova, Bettanova, what's
your favorite root vegetable in Russia? It's okay, that's the
number two answer. And finally, another girl named Katerina, what's
(19:58):
your favorite fame root vegetable in the Russia? Beat that
it is you in that's the answer. We would wait things.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Ooh, I thought you wanted my favorite.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Not the right hand, I wanted Catterina's favorite.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
I want. I'm so sorry, Well, I want to beat
the competition.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
Hey see which girl beats the competition and which girls
go krembling back to their families.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
This show is going to be canceled.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Yeah, this show did not make it very far.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Well, of course, you know, and they got all these
fifteen hundred girls, they all you know, hoping to get
the rose at the end or whatever, and all the
boy ares were pushing their you know, their girls for
the usual reasons right, powerful unification of families, merging land,
investing their dowries and royalty, all that stuff. But the
eventual winner would surprise everyone. And we'll meet Ivan's first
(21:07):
wife right after this break. Welcome back to striving for riding.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Russians like the Russian Tasmanian devil.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Well, he's their main voice every so he does all
the voiceover work there.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
So the invitation that went out to every noble family
in Russia to bring their daughters out for this contest
was not so much an invitation as it was a
direct order. According to a Russian collection of histories that
I found on a website called sato I, the letter
everyone got said quote, when this letter of ours come
(21:48):
to you, if you have daughters, then you would immediately
go with them to the city for a review. And
under no circumstances would you have these daughters concealed, which
one of you will be in great disgrace with the
bizarre and face execution. Send the letter amongst yourselves without
delaying even an our. Jeez, this very chain letter, like
(22:12):
I know, I send them forward.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
This to seven people or get.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Bad luck for the next ten years. Good bad luck.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
So fifteen hundred young women were brought to Moscow to
be judged and what Alexander Bushkov calls quote the first
all Russian beauty contest. Sign me up, I know, I
bet a lot of them are really hot.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Yeah, sign me up to compete. Not to compete, but
just to attend judge.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Yeah, just to attend. You don't even want to judge.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Oh, I don't want to judge. I don't like judging women.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
I appreciate that about you.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Yeah, but I'll watch a big line if pretty women
walk past me. Of course, sign me up for that.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Who wouldn't. Now, some of these ladies were pretty excited
about this. The prospect of marrying the Czar must have
sounded like a pretty sweet deal, sure, especially if they
didn't know anything about it, like he could be anything
in there. But of course some of them were already
in love with someone else and they just had not
gotten married yet. Oh that would suck, which kind of
reminds me of Catherine Parr from our last episode. Oh yeah,
(23:09):
she was gonna marry Thomas Seymour and then King Henry's like,
actually I'd like to marry you. She was like, well,
I guess I got to marry the king. I mean,
I can't know. So these fifteen hundred girls were first
brought before a team of governors who like whittled the
stack down to a more smaller manageable number. Oh so
it's like the pre auditions from ya can Idol, right right.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
You're like, oh, I get to perform for Simon. No no, no,
no no.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Not got to see if you're good TV first.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
So now about a large party's worth of the prettiest
young women in Russia were brought before Ivan and they
all flirted and giggled and tried to get his attention.
But there was one girl in the corner of the
room who didn't say too much.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
That's right. Her name was honest, That Sia Ramanov, the
Zakaria Yureva.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Too many names.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
It's a lot of names, but she's from a lot
of fans families. Uh. And like we said, this is
not Anastasia, and in fact, the name Anastasia doesn't exist
in Russia. I saw a lot of angry Russian YouTubers saying,
announced Anastasia, that's it's anesthesia. So that's what we'll go
with the proper pronunciation.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Yeah, you're welcome Russia.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Well, this girl was about seventeen years old, so about
the same age as Ivan, and her modesty at this
party had already been ridiculed by the boyers and the
other girls. She was just a little too modests, you know, Tyrie. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
She wasn't out there shagging her boobs for Ivan and
trying to get to the frontal line. So all the
(24:41):
boyers like weren't impressed with this girl. And maybe it
was Ivan's just total hatred of these guys that made
him cross the room and take this girl's hand. He
had made his choice, and many sources say that her
family was noble but not particularly important, but historian l. E.
(25:02):
Morozova said that she might even have been chosen because
of her quote nobility and proximity to the grand Duke's court.
Her father had been an advisor of Ivan's grandfather, Ivan
the Third, but he died before he could do very much,
so he wasn't, like, you know, a well known guy.
But her uncle was actually a very trusted advisor to
(25:24):
Ivan's father, Vassili. He was even nicknamed the Eye of Vassili,
So Ivan was probably pretty well acquainted with this family
of Romanov's well.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
They married on February third, fifteen forty seven, officiated by
who else but Metropolitan Macarius. He was probably like so excited,
and as Ivan was Russia's first czar, Anastasia became the
first Russian czarina. She was famously beautiful at a young age,
with dark eyes and long, thick, dark blonde hair. But
(25:57):
she was also a sweet, small, polite, affectionate girl, and
everyone was kind of worried how this little sweetie was
gonna hold up married to Ivan, who was, you know,
known to be pretty reactive, violent and controlling. Yeah, sure,
but remember Ivan always liked cheerful, lively girls and honest
Essia actually brought out the best in Ivan. The fourth
(26:18):
Russian histories say that quote Anastasia instructed and led him
to all sorts of virtues.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
An English explorer and diplomat who spent much of his
life in Russia wrote, quote, this queen was so wise, virtuous, pious,
and influential that she was revered and loved by all subordinates.
Ivan Vassilievitch was young and quick tempered, but she ruled
him with amazing meekness and intelligence. Not bad, pretty good, honest,
(26:48):
Essilla Well.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Ivan and Anastasia were incredibly happy together and they seemed
to be deeply in love. But things got off to
a rocky start for Ivan and his rain with the
Great Fire of Moscow in the summer of fifteen forty seven,
just a few months after his coronation and their marriage.
At this time, most of the city of Moscow was
(27:12):
built out of wood, and when the fire broke out,
nearly a third of the city was destroyed. Between two
and three thousand people died. And if you remember the Shuiskys,
that family of boyars who ruled while Ivan was a child,
Well they're still around causing trouble, and they decided they
were going to investigate the fire, and in their investigation
(27:35):
they found out that, oh my goodness, what do you know,
their sworn enemies, the Glinskis, started it. If you remember
the Glinskis, that was Ivan's mother, Elena Glinskaya, who the
Shwiskys had poisoned back in the day while her mother
was still around, Anna Glinsky, and they claimed that she
had used sorcery to start the fire, because there was
(27:58):
already this local folklore that she was like a witch
who could transform into a bird, according to the historian
Uri Bosin, So, the sh Whiskeys suggested that she tore
out human hearts, boiled them, and then turned into a
bird and flew around the city sprinkling this cursed blood
(28:18):
water down on houses, which immediately erected into flames.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
All right, I'm gonna say something.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Go ahead.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
This is obviously bullshit, but it's also so metal, like,
oh my god, taking lady tearing out human hearts and
boiling them and then like turning into a bird and
sprinkling blood water that turns into flames. I mean, holy,
that's a whole like that could be a whole metal
music video right there.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
And my response when the sh Whiskys tell me this
is and you want to go after this woman? You
want to? I say, we get futter with it. What
she wants?
Speaker 2 (28:57):
I think I need to hire right, maybe rain these
powers in for myself. Well, instead of that, the sh
Whisky's got people all worked up, and soon an angry
mob was storming around the city looking for Glinsky's, any Glinski's,
and they found Yuri Glinsky hiding in a cathedral, dragged
(29:19):
him out to the streets and stoned him to death.
They raided Glinsky homes, they killed the Glinsky's serfs. According
to Bushkov, the mob even killed random people that were
suggested to be associated with the Glinskis without kicking any
of their identities. Oh my god, that is so.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Crazy, Like I think that guy was the Glinsky's bartender.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Last night, right, the historian rites quote, A mass of
people is stupid, and when the people are stupid, it
is easy to control them, which is what the sh
Whiskys took advantage of.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
I'm a historian to tell me that I would.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Get that embroidered. A of people is stupid. That's like
the most real thing I've heard.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
That's I love that. It's my one of my favorite
movie quotes in Men in Black, Yes, Timi Lee Jones,
A person is smart, but people are stupid, and.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
You know it goes on yep, and he ain't wrong.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
He ain't wrong.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
So then the mob turned towards Ivan's palace, where they
knew his grandmother, the sorceress Anna Glinsky, was hiding. Ivan
is only seventeen at this point. He's just crowned Czar.
He's never seen a huge mob of angry villagers with
pitchforks before. This is a real unprecedented situation.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Yeah, but Ivan did not hand over his grandmother to
the angry mob. Now. Posen says that Ivan was quote
forced to give generous promises to pacify the protesters, and
then the mob just kind of fizzled out over about
a week. But Bushkov writes that Ivan wanted to set
an example and quote ordered the instigators to be seized
(30:56):
and immediately executed, and the crowd fled to their home.
Holmes He's saying Ivan learned from his early days with
the Shwhiskies that if you're timid, they will walk all
over you, but when you show force, a lot of
the times they'll flinch. Playwright and historian Edward Radzinski said
Ivan the Fourth was quote the true grandson of Ivan
(31:17):
the third. He already understood his people a kingdom without
a thunderstorm, like a horse without a bridle. So you
need this big, thunderous person to come in and you know,
kind of put you in your place.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Yeah, ah, I guess, well, I mean, you know, anyway,
The point is Ivan was ready to be terrible. He
was like, one day this is gonna be my whole thing.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Yea.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
But in fact, his early years were not terrible. And
many attribute that largely to his marriage with Anastasiev. Their
early rule was marked with peaceful reforms and modernizations. He
formed the Zemski Sabor, which was Russia's parliament. He established
a standing army called the Streltzi, and he unified religious
(32:06):
rituals across the country.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
I was thinking about that. It's interesting to think when
you've got a large country with churches, you know, hundreds
of miles apart from each other, How do you know
they're doing the same thing, right?
Speaker 2 (32:17):
I guess that's a good point.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Nobody ever came in and said, hey, mass goes like this,
you know.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
I mean, I guess they all get trained right in someplace.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Yeah yeah, but then you kind of go off on
your own, and you know, just gradually it turns into
your own thing. I guess, well, that's why I.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Always hated it when they were like, oh, the Bible
used to be written, you know, in whatever language the
common people did not speak. Oh, so that they had
to go to a priest and told like what God's
word was or whatever, and so the priest could tell
you anything. They could literally be like, oh, yeah, this
Bible says you have to sleep with me. Once to
meet or something, and they'd be, well, I guess this
is in the book, you know. Like well, Ivan also
(32:55):
took a look at the mess the Shwhiskys had made
after the fire, and you know, he already hated these
boyars plenty, but this just like added to it. So
he started working on reforms that curbed their power. He's like,
I want you all to be able to do less,
you know. So a special council was established called the Isbranayarada,
(33:16):
which allowed lower class representatives to advise the czar on
what was going on out in these streets there you go,
which is pretty cool, like the common man around him.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Yeah, I'm sick of you rich people going on. Yeah right,
and I mean mostly involved in the Isbranaya Rada was
still pretty rich people. It wasn't the one percenters, but
he was talking to the middle class.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Now at least, I was gonna say, it must have
been at least landowners, like probably not a lot of peasants.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
He actually, yeah, he did put some some laws into
place that actually curbed peasants' abilities to like move around
so much. But in general, he was like, let me
stop making this such a you know, where only the
rich people are allowed to have any say things.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Yeah yeah, what.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
About the slightly less rich people. No one's thinking to them, poor.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
People, no one cares, but the slightly restless rich people
to get more representation.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Well, look, obviously Ivan is a complicated guy. And who
knew that this little slice of Russian history would be
so dense and dramatic.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Oh yeah, no one could guess that.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Always thought Russian history was supposed to be boring, so easy.
And well, we should, however, zero in on this marriage
and the family that they started, and the boatload of
tragedy that followed. So let's take a break and we
will look at all that right after this.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
Welcome back everyone.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
So honest, Asia and Ivan the Fourth, as we've said,
are very much in love. There's just a really good
relationship going on here. And while she was not directly
involved in policy, she did help him keep a cool
head while Ivan was off czarring to see you created
this embroidery workshop, very famous. A lot of women came
to work for her, like the best artists in town.
(35:07):
And there's this famed style of facial sewing that they
do in sixteenth century Russia, and they would embroider these
works that reflected state events or army victories under Ivan's rule,
and religious symbols as well, and quite a few of
these works apparently are preserved in museums to this day.
So if you're at a Russian art museum, keep an
(35:28):
eye up for some of Anssia's embroidery. Yeah, but look, look,
I know that we all want this happy couple to
just sit around and stitch fancy art and bring down
rich nobles and live happily ever after. Right, I'm sorry, folks,
this is a Russian story. If you haven't heard so,
you know it's gonna be tragic.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
Oh man. Yes, Together, Ivan and Anastasia had six children.
The first two were daughters, Anna and Maria, but each
of them died at less than a year old, which,
as in many of our stories, it's just not that uncommon,
especially in Russia at the time. Bushkov wrote that infant
mortality was hi throughout Europe and Asia at this time,
(36:13):
with some women giving birth every year and often only
one in four surviving well. After this, they gave birth
to a son, Dmitri, in fifteen fifty two. The next spring,
Ivan got terribly sick and even he thought he would
not make it. He's like, this is the end, and
all the boyard in fighting between the families meant that
(36:34):
most of them had never liked Anastasia, and he knew
that she would be in a lot of trouble if
he died without an air.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
Oh yeah, so he asked.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
The boy yards to swear loyalty to the new infant son, Dmitri,
and a lot of them were like no, damn, which
is like, do you remember how he had that guy
beat to death.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Some of them straight up apparently saw how sick he
was and was like, I'm not gonna do anything you
say because you'll be dead tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
Oh so he was already so powerless in your mind.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Well that was stupid because maybe had a pure spite
alone I've been made a full and miraculous recovery and
started ordering them executions.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Baby, oh he sure did. Oh, Like he.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Promised as a child, He's gonna kill you if you
say no.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
But sadly, tragedy struck again when the royal family took
a pilgrimage to the Curillo Belzyorski monastery up north. The
whole expedition had to cross these makeshift gangways across the
Sphere River and the baby, Dimitri's nurse was holding him
as two of us to see his relatives held the
(37:42):
nurse's arms to sort of steady her as they crossed
this makeshift bridge. But suddenly the gangway collapsed and all
four of them were thrown into the river, and while
the three adults made it safely out, tragically the baby
had drowned. Now, some historians have questioned how this makeshift bridge,
(38:04):
this gangway, which was heavy and sturdy and used all
the time and allowed the entire rest of the party
to cross safely, suddenly flipped over while the Czar's only
infant Air was crossing. But you know, no accusations at
the time were really made. Obviously huge tragedy, and Ivan
was furious, but no one was necessarily crying murder that
(38:28):
we know of at the time.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Ooh, but it's like a little conspiracy.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Yeah, people are looking back at it and going, that's
really weird.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
That is very strange.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
Well, the next year, fifteen fifty four, honest Acio gave
birth to their fourth child, a son who they gave
the name Ivan. And this one actually live hey for
a while, Okay, his story is tragic too, but he'll
last at least until the next episode. Oh, their weekend
rest easy for a minute. And in fifteen fifty six,
(38:59):
another daughter named Yevdokiya was born, but she only lived
two years.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Oh awful, my god.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
It must be just you're just sad all the time.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Their sixth and final child was a son named Theodor,
born in May of fifteen fifty seven, and he would
live even longer than his older brother Ivan. So all
in all, only two of Ivan and Honestessia's children lived
past infancy. But by the time she had given birth
to Feodor, Honestessia had fallen very ill. Some historians attribute
(39:31):
this to her being quote weakened by frequent childbirths, but
Bushkov wrote that again, people were having babies constantly back then.
Six kids in ten years was quote, even by the
standards of the sixteenth century, below the average norm.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Right, And she's between eighteen and twenty eight when she's
having these babies. There, it's not like she was frail
or right anything like that. So, but she kept getting
sicker and sicker. Then in fifteen six, another fire broke
out in Moscow. This one wasn't quite as intense or
(40:06):
deadly as the fifteen forty seven fire, but clouds of
smoke were pouring into the palace, and Anasticia was moved
to nearby village because of her health concerns. Historian Nikolay
Karamzin wrote that Ivan stayed back and quote extinguished the
fire himself. Being exposed to the greatest danger. He stood
(40:27):
against the wind, showered with sparks, and with his fearlessness,
aroused such a zeal in noble officials that the boyars
threw themselves into the flames, carried water, climbed.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
Roofs inspirational leader time.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
Yeah, the fire was extinguished, but the Sarina's condition continued
to worsen. On August seventh of fifteen sixty, honest Assia
died quietly at twenty nine years old. They say that
she died really peacefully, in quietly, in bed, almost embarrassed
(41:03):
that she was drawing so much attention to herself.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Oh my goodness, yeah, little sweetie she was.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
She was the sweetest.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Now. Ivan had called all the best doctors to care
for her, but no one could save her. At her funeral,
Ivan could barely walk behind her casket and had to
be held up by his little brother Yuri and one
of his cousins. He cried at her coffin and tore
at his hair. The sight was so tragic that even
many of the boyars started weeping as well, and Metropolitan
(41:35):
Macarius burst into tears as her coffin was lowered into
the grave. Kadamzine wrote, quote, the common sorrow was never
portrayed stronger. Not just one courtyard, but all of Moscow
buried its first, most amiable queen. Everyone was crying, and
the poor the beggars were the most inconsolable man. Yeah,
(41:59):
that's so sad to see him like keening.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
He was just a wreck, they said, Yeah, really heartbreaking.
I think all of his goodness was with her, you know,
like everything that made him feel like a good person.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
Right, so maybe even just kind of not even consciously,
but kind of mourning that part of yourself now that
it doesn't exist anymore.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
Yep, Because I think he had a lot of rage
and sadness already, and she quelled that she made him
feel at peace, And now I think he, yeah, like
you said, maybe even subconsciously recognized I'm gonna be awful
right from now on. Nothing's going to make me happy anymore.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
I actually read something about that about grief, where it's
like you're not just grieving the person who's gone, but
who you were with that person, and that relationship that
you had with that person, and all the special things
about just the two of you.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
This is so true, and I think.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
That's really so special because it is like a part
of yourself is gone.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
Yeah, yeah, who are we if not are connections to
other people in a lot of ways. While all of
the doctors that Ivan called out also could not determine
a cause of death, but he didn't need them. He
knew what the cause of death was. It was the
same thing that happened to his mother. Honest Asia was
(43:24):
poisoned by the Boyars. He didn't even need evidence. He'd
been locked in a battle with these families like the Shuiskys,
and they never liked the idea of bowing to her family,
the Romanovs. She had been growing sick for a while, gradually,
just like his mother did when she died. And after this,
(43:44):
Ivan the Terrible started to earn his nickname. His wife,
like we said, who had always cooled him, was gone.
He was now angry, paranoid, and vengeful. Someone described him
coming out of his room a week later, and he
just looked different, and his eyes were sunk, and his
skin was yellow, and he just had this scowl on
his face. As Karamzine writes, quote, people did not yet
(44:09):
know what Anastassia had taken with her to the grave.
Here's the end of the happy days of Ivan and Russia,
for he lost not only his wife but also his virtue. Yeah,
dark days ahead, right.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
Well, the question remains now was she actually poisoned or
was this just Ivan's paranoia and resentment against the boy.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
Art understand you?
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Yeah right, But he didn't. I mean, he just said
it didn't heed proof. I was like, well, maybe you
should get proved.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
Well.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
In the year two thousand, four hundred and forty years
after her death, T. D. Panova, the head of the
archaeological department at Moscow State Historical and Cultural Museum, led
a study on honest Asia's remains. Together with forensic specialists.
They found some pretty shocking results. So the best material
(45:03):
to determine the accumulation of mercury in the body is
the hair, and in Zarena honest Esssilla's hair, they found
mercury concentrations at four point eight milligrams, which is over
ten times the toxic amount for human.
Speaker 1 (45:19):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
Even fragments of the stone sarcophagus she was buried in
came up with mercury readings.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
Oh, they had pumped her full of.
Speaker 2 (45:27):
It, full of that shit.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
Oh my god, Oh my god. Now, some of the
medicines at the time were also mercury based, so it
had been previously suggested that maybe she just accidentally overdosed
like that, which has happened before. I can't remember, but
I feel like we've even mentioned that on this show before.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
Maybe, So I do know that in cleaning out my
grandfather's medicine cabinet we found some medicine with mercury in it,
good time, from like a million years ago whatever. My
cousin was like, why is this still here? What we
need to get?
Speaker 1 (45:58):
How do you even throw the s of it safely?
Speaker 2 (46:00):
Right? Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
Well, and with these quantities that they were finding in
Anastasia's body, modern scholars are basically totally certain that yes,
she was in fact poisoned. Now, unfortunately we'll never know
who specifically carried out this order, but we do know
one thing Czar, Ivan the Fourth was right, Yeah, yes
(46:25):
she was poisoned, and yes he's gonna do something about
it now. Unfortunately, he also did not know exactly who
did this, so his rage just kind of went in
all directions. But he definitely was not having it with
the boyers. No more. Nope, in his life he would
take seven more brides. Now, none of those marriages lasted
(46:48):
nearly as long as his and Anesthesias, and none of
them were as passionate or loving. But the reign of
Ivan the Terrible was just getting started, all triggered by
the murder of not only his mother but his most
beloved wife. Now, obviously there's so much to say about
Ivan and Anastasia. It's been a full episode. We've been
(47:11):
here nearly an hour now already. So we got seven
more wives to get to, and I think we'll get
to them all in one episodeties aren't quite so intense,
but we will come back next time with the rest
of Ivan's marriages.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
Man, yeah, I've been straight up was like, I don't
even need to do an investigation. Y'all killed my wife.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
I know you weren't subtle about it.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
And now I'm like, well, who are the boyars who
were crying at her funeral?
Speaker 1 (47:41):
Yeah, well that's that's kind of what's tough about it,
is there everybody's a boy are There's like, they're boy
as all over the place. Boy are here? Boy are there?
Boy or boy are everywhere? But the Shwhiskys were the
main ones that keep coming up in my research, but
there were a few other families whose names really popped
up a lot. So there was probably some still that
liked her, totally on her side, but the real power
(48:05):
grabby ones, these are the ones to look out for.
Speaker 2 (48:08):
Well that's so, I'm like, were they crying thinking like, Oh,
he's really gonna just beat the shit out of me
by dogs, He's going to have his grandma sprinkle some
blood flames on the oh names, there's something this might
have been a bad idea, guys.
Speaker 1 (48:23):
Oh No, Grandma Glinsky uh vanished from record. But she
was not killed. She They think she just kind of
escaped somewhere and took another name and lived out her
life just.
Speaker 2 (48:34):
Fine, smart, very smart, or like a sorcerer. She just
made herself disappeared.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
She turned into a bird and flew away away to
torment some other town children and eating their hearts. I
was fascinated by this story. I didn't know nothing about
Ivan the Terrible, No me neither.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
I've never heard of him.
Speaker 1 (48:52):
Actually, you know, I don't think heard the name, you know,
just like maybe the game itself.
Speaker 2 (48:58):
I feel like you might be right and I've heard it,
but I know there's like several like Peter the Greats
for example, so like there's a like, well, I wonder
which one, but it's really cool. I'm always loved to
spend time in Russia, I know, because it's just such
an interesting country. I feel. I just feel like it's
so it's kind of alien in a lot of ways.
Speaker 1 (49:18):
Culturally, Yeah, you can tell there's this raw survival kind
of mentality behind everyone. Yeah, and we're in the cold,
we're you know, resources are sparse. They had to they
had to make it work, and they had to and
you know, they used that cold, they had that ice
in their veins.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
It feels right well, and like the quote about needing
a thunderstorm, Yeah, I think it's still still pretty true
culturally there. And again I'm not Russian, so happy to
be corrected. But you know, like Putin's always run around
like look at my I'm riding this horse and I'm
really strong, you know, like there's this macho there's a
machismo to who they see as being powerful, right, and influential.
(49:58):
That's very important for that perception. I think even Olga
of Kiev had it. Remember her, That's right, she would
like the thunderstorm.
Speaker 1 (50:05):
Oh my gosh, a lot of people up and buried
them and burned them alive.
Speaker 2 (50:09):
I was speaking of birds that cause fires, that's right.
Speaker 1 (50:13):
She tied a little flames to pigeons and they like
flew into houses and lit him on fire.
Speaker 2 (50:17):
Right, Yeah, yeah, did that. That's why I'm like, I
wonder if they I don't. I don't remember when. I
think that was way before this, so maybe they got that.
Speaker 1 (50:25):
Yeah, it was way before this.
Speaker 2 (50:26):
So the Legend of Kiev.
Speaker 1 (50:29):
If but you haven't heard, we did her story in
an earlier episode and it is.
Speaker 2 (50:33):
Awesome, so fun.
Speaker 1 (50:35):
Go check it out. But thanks for tuning in for
this one. Yeah, they're excited to bring you the first
of Ivan's eight wives, and like I said, we'll come
back with I'm pretty sure all seven in the next episode.
Speaker 2 (50:46):
We're Russian to get that done. You're welcome.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
Don't have a Moss cow Man while you're waiting.
Speaker 2 (50:53):
I love it. Yeah, perfect, Perfect.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
Tell us your Russia puns and give us your feedback
on this episode or any episode or suggestions for new
ones in the future. We would love to hear from you.
You can email us at ridic Romance at gmail dot
com that's.
Speaker 2 (51:08):
Right, or we're on Instagram. I'm at danam.
Speaker 1 (51:11):
Boone and I'm at O Great.
Speaker 2 (51:12):
It's Eli and the show is at ridic Romance.
Speaker 1 (51:15):
So please follow us along, drop us a review. We
love hearing from you and we can't wait to bring
in the next one. Love you, bye bike.
Speaker 2 (51:23):
So long friends, it's time to go.
Speaker 3 (51:25):
Thanks for listening to our show. Tell your friends, nabors, uncles,
and dance to listen to our show, Ridiculous Romance.
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