October 10, 2022 • 39 mins
Adnan Khan is the founder of Firstwatch Films, a video project first conceived and led entirely by incarcerated people inside San Quentin State Prison. Adnan Khan was also the executive director of Re:Store Justice, working with currently and formerly incarcerated people, survivors of crime, district attorneys, and the community to reimagine our justice system. While incarcerated, Adnan inspired, launched, and worked on the Felony/Murder rule legislation (Senate Bill 1437). The bill passed, and after serving 16 years, in January 2019, Adnan was the first person re-sentenced under the bill he helped create.
To learn more and get involved, visit: https://www.galaxygives.com/
Righteous Convictions with Jason Flom is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts in association with Signal Co. No1.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to Righteous Convictions with Jason Flam the podcast where
I have the privilege of speaking with people who see
the wrong in the world and are driven to make
it right. At the age of eighteen, today's guest was
convicted under California's felony murder statute for a crime in
which he was not the killer. Nonetheless, he was given
a sense of twenty five years to life. But he
(00:27):
managed to free himself after sixteen long years. How did
he do it by getting a new law passed. And
so this law was created from in prison, from an
organization that was created in prison, and was passed essentially
from inside. And so that part I really want to
like to tell people who have been incarge rated or
(00:47):
are incars rated, or people who are working with encourage
rated people like the energy, the labor of love that
was behind this. You can't put tangibility to that right
that that's just something that comes from a deep space
of of love and and this never giving up spirit.
Since his release, he's continued to advocate for reform and
(01:09):
promote restorative justice through the organization Restored Justice. Add non
con Right Now on Righteous Convictions. Welcome back to Righteous Convictions.
(01:37):
With Jason Flang. You know, when I started this podcast,
I had a general idea of the type of guests
I wanted to interview in the type of work I
wanted to highlight, and today's guests Odd non Kan is
like he's a bull's eye is the epitome of what
I had in mind. I mean, you talk about transformation,
you talk about channeling tragedy into triumph, and you've got
to come back around to buy friend dot non con
(01:58):
so add I'm so ei. You're here, Welcome to Righteous Convictions.
Thank you, thank you for having me, and I'm really
thrilled that we're here to talk about this because we're
going to take our listeners on a journey today. And
this one goes back to a crime that you were
involved in. Don't make any bones about that, but when
you were just eighteen years old right now, this is
(02:20):
not a pure innocen's case. You were involved in the
robbery of a guy who was going to sell you
some marijuana, and it's important that we make that distinction.
But in the process of this robbery, the young man
was unfortunately killed by the person that you were with,
not by you. Now, under belly murder laws, as they
were in California at that time, and as they still
(02:40):
are in most states. You're considered just as guilty as
the person who actually committed the murder, although that was
not your intention and you weren't the person that did devied.
So we'll get to that story in the circumstances surrounding
that incident and the trajectory it started you on. But
first let's rewind a little further. What was your life
growing up? You know, in the first like seventeen plus
(03:03):
years before this thing happened. Um, yeah, growing up, man,
I felt like, um, well, growing up, I was a
happy kid. I love to laugh. Comedy was a big
thing for me. Cartoons obviously, what kid doesn't cartoons and cereal, right, um?
But also there were a lot of challenges my father.
My parents divorce when I was eight years old, and
I think the beginning of my challenges started when, um
(03:26):
my father was absent basically, so he was in and
out of my life. And I always wondered while I
was during my incarceration, what my life would have been
like if my father was all the way in my life,
or what my life would have been like if my
father was all the way out, but for me, because
he was in and out, UM, it created more of
a tease for a need for a positive male role model, UM,
(03:50):
place of belonging. And so that really contributed to UM
kind of resenting home, not wanting to be home. Seeking
UM my father seeing where he was, I would literally
take the bus or take the subway of what it's
called bart in California or northern California, and I will
go look for him, UM different places, asked some of
(04:11):
his friends where he would be at. So that desire
for me really contributed to a lot of my behaviors
of of needing and wanting a positive male role model
and friendships. UM. And then after that, my mom remarried
and I was twelve years old at this time, and
that's where a lot of the abuse started from my stepfather. UM.
He would grab me, throw me on the ground, UM,
(04:32):
throw me in the car and tell me I'm gonna
throw you over the bridge. UM. One time he tried
to put something in my eye which really burns. It
was some type of acid poison. I'm not sure, but
a little bit of drop guy into my right eye. UM.
He paid my best friend ten dollars to try to
beat me up. He would have he would steal things
from my mom, or have my step brothers or his
kids steal things from a mom, put in my jacket
(04:54):
in coat pocket and say that I was stealing. Um
effectively took me out of my little league baseball that
I loved. One thing that baseball provided for me was
UM that positive male role model. I had other peers
that were just like me. So I had I felt
like I had a place of belonging in sports, and
he knew that. So Um, I was effectively taken out
(05:14):
of baseball, and I just didn't want to be in
the home anymore. So I would at twelve years or
I'll run away or not come home, or stay outside
as much as possible, playing basketball or just swinging a bat. Um.
And then after that, in my teens, I started smoking weed, drinking,
and cutting school. Even though I was a good student. Uh.
(05:34):
I remember getting straight a's in sixth grade and straight
a's in ninth grade. Um, So school wasn't UM, It's difficult,
just I couldn't continue with all emotional baggage. So during
my teens, UM I was kind of in and out
of school. I went to about seven different high schools,
just getting in fights, moving. I haven't seen my dad
(05:55):
since I was fourteen. Actually that's when he fully disappeared.
And by the time I was seven teen, my mom
remarried for the third time and moved out of state.
UM and about a month later, my uncle kicked me
out of the house at the age of seventeen. So
I lived homeless for about a year, slept in cars, parks,
friends houses, couches, um tennis courts, on the porch of
(06:18):
my cousin's house because I wasn't allowed in there, just
anywhere I could. And that lasted for almost about a year.
But then I tried to get a job, but I
was a high school drop out at that time. By then,
UM I had turned eighteen under those conditions, and I
even enrolled myself into adult school, but I didn't have
enough money for transportation to go to adult school. UM
and there's things look really bad and ugly. And so
(06:39):
one day I was um with a group of friends,
which where I was introduced to another friend and he
found out my situation. UM I was eighteen by now
he was twenty two, and he asked me to come,
you know, whenever I want to come stay with him.
So I lived with him for about almost two months
on and off, and UH, one night when I was
with him and his friends, that's when they UM said, Hey,
(07:00):
there's a guy that has a thousand dollars worth of weed.
He doesn't have guns, knives, weapons. I've never had guns,
knives and weapons on me either, And they said, in
a fake drug deal, take this thousand dollars worth of weed,
run into a car and the driver will drive off.
And so immediately and impulsively agreed to that. My goal
was to take my portions of it sell it. And
(07:22):
I told myself, if I'm going to be homeless in
the Bay Area, I'd rather be homeless in l A.
And I want to actually, um try to pursue a
comedy career. I don't know what I was gonna do,
but it was definitely comedy because my whole life it
was comedy that that got me by. But UM, that
night is when my life changed and that's when I
was incarcerated from that night. Okay, so you've agreed to
(07:46):
help these dudes robbed the guy with the marijuana. So
the big night comes. What was the plan and what
were you supposed to do? Um? And So that night
when this young man came down, we my friends who
I was with call the Bagetta Way driver. They set
up the fake drug deal because they knew him and
I didn't, and so that's why I was a person
to act like I was buying it from him. Once
(08:06):
he handed it to me, sprint into a car and
the driver would drive off. So this getaway driver, who
I hardly knew, I met him one time, like in
passing that I remembered later. So when the young man
handed me the weed, the getaway driver was on the
passenger side of the car and pulled out this young
man out of the car and appeared to me that
they were fighting in the middle of the road, and
(08:27):
so I started yelling and screaming like get back in
the car, what are you doing? What are you doing? Um?
And then that's when he ran back into the car.
We sped off and the next morning I was arrested
at two am. I didn't know what I was being
arrested for. They don't They didn't remember Miranda rights. Um.
I asked the officer who was taking me to the
police station what my charges were, and he wouldn't answer.
I get to the police station, they take all my clothes,
(08:48):
strip search to all the forensics, and finally I was
taken into the interrogation room, um, and that's when they
told me that we're charging you with robbery and murder.
And at first it didn't computing. They said that this
young man had us his life, and that's when I
remembered just breaking down and crying. It didn't make any
sense to me. I want to want to know how
it happened, and they said that the that they have
(09:09):
evidence that um, he was stabbed. And so find out.
I find out that my getaway driver who became my
co defendant, he was a young black male years old,
bipolar schizophrenic, had a list of like eight pills that
he wasn't taking um from his bipolar schizophrenia, and from
those eight pills, apparently because of his schizophrenia and his paranoia,
(09:31):
he had a concealed knife that he didn't tell any
one of us about. And so that night he what
the court paper said, he snapped where he snaps in
and out of reality and and blacks out and has
a violent outburst. And so that's what ended up happening
and very unfortunately took this young man's life and so
that's when I learned about my involvement. And then the
felony murder rule where it said that that I'm equally
(09:54):
guilty of the murder because I committed a felony. So
what that would look like in trial? If if the
the audience, so the listeners here are the jurors, your
job was only to find me guilty of an intent
to commit a robbery. And so literally my trial started
off with the district attorney saying, ladies and gentlemen of
the jury, UM, I'm gonna tell you right now that
(10:16):
Mr Khan did not commit a murder. Um, that's not
why we're here. Your only job is to prove with
the reasonable doubt that Mr Khan had an intent to
commit a robbery. So basically the jury's job was done.
They found me guilty. I was guilty, um of an
intent to commit a robbery. I still am. And so
once they found me guilty, their job was done. They
(10:36):
went home to their families and the next phase was
the judge's phase. Several months later, and the judge had
to sentence me to a mandatory twenty life sentence under
the Feildy murder rule. After my convince the jury found
me guilty, and before the judge here comes these a
couple of forensic psychologists. They do all sorts of test
over a period of one week, and when the report
(10:57):
came back, it said in the report that had it
not then for this mandatory sentence, we would recommend probation
for Mr Khan. And so after all of that, just
being found guilty of a robbery murder, they still said
that we would recommend probation, but obviously they couldn't because
of the mandatory sentence. But you had never intended on
(11:18):
anyone getting killed. You were just a kid who was
gonna go help rip this guy off for some pot
doing something you know, unquestionably stupid, like a lot of
kids do at that age. What were you thinking when
you heard that prison sentence come down? Were you like, WHOA,
this is like not only unfair but unreal. You know,
(11:40):
I do I do still, I want to add like,
I do still take responsibility for like what I did.
And there's a big part of me. I mean yeah,
you know, being being locked up and and you sit there.
A lot of people will see the cessationalized part of prison, right,
and that's the most common thing about you know the fights,
the riots, But the truth is the fights and the
riots the last matter of seconds. And so with society
doesn't see or think about is what we do the
(12:02):
rest of the What is it twenty three hours and
fifty nine minutes right, What those conversations are, what those
self reflections are. Um. We talk about remorse and and
we have victim awareness. We we think about mortality. Um,
if we're not forgiven in this life, and if we're
going to die in this life, then what is the
next life? Like? How can I make up? How can
I do a living amends here? And so even though
(12:25):
yes I did not intend nor did I kill a
victim in in my case, I still hold myself responsible. UM,
I do understand like there is someone that UM, a
mother who has lost the child, a father who has
lost the child, the sister and brother who have lost
a sibling, and that never leaves me, you know. And
so even though I'm not, I guess fully I live
(12:45):
in this awkward um space of what people say. And
I don't like to use the word innocent, but I
guess for the sake of this conversation innocent and then guilty.
And I feel like I'm in the middle of that,
Like my whole incarceration, even up until this day, I
did do something wrong. I didn't do it to the
extent that they're saying in or did I intend to.
But I hold myself responsible internally with the remorse and
(13:09):
in the active making of amends righteous convictions with Jason
(13:29):
flam is super excited and honored to have the support
of a great organization like Galaxy Gives. Galaxy Gives leads
the filanthropic efforts of the Novograds family. They invest in organizations, campaigns,
and leaders who are directly impacted by and working to
dismantle the current punitive justice system. Galaxy Gives also builds
power for the community's most harmed by mass incarceration and
(13:51):
forges transformative solutions for responding to that harm. They envision
a society where the structural barriers created by racism, poverty,
and inequali here and no more, where instead all people
have the dignity, freedom and rights needed to thrive. So
(14:14):
you go from that eighteen year old with the twenty
five to life sentence to somebody who was primarily responsible
for legislation that ended up not only leading to your freedom,
but to the freedom of countless other deserving people who
were sentenced under the felty murder rule in California. I'm
talking about Senate Bill fourteen thirty seven, which you initiated
and fought for and which was passed into law in
(14:35):
two thousand eighteen. And not only that, you did this
from the inside, from behind the big walls, those intimidating
walls of San Quentin Prison. I mean, that's incredible, It's
absolutely heroic. So I mean, how did this happen? Take
us through that journey? Yeah, definitely. Um, you know my
(14:55):
first four years while I was I was in County
jail fighting this case. Um so it was eighteen years
eighteen to twenty two years old, and um, I just
remember like becoming I guess, this little young Dale House lawyer.
I studied the crap out of the felony murder rule
and and robbery and all sorts of murder. Just that's
all I was doing, exhausting myself with educating myself, learning
(15:17):
learning about the law as much as I can, and
to a point where when I was found guilty, I
was just I knew that the only way for me
to go home was if the felony murder rule changed.
So when I was sentenced and take into state prison,
though I did appeal in my case, but I just
I did it out of formality, I guess, Um. I
knew that the by law, the court had not made
(15:38):
an error, and that's what would help me in my appeal. Like, Okay,
we we have findings that the court made an error,
but the court didn't. They did everything right under that law.
So I knew that eventually if I were to go home,
would be either in twenty five years and then at
the Pearl Board if they find me suitable in twenty
five years. But I knew that the only way for
me to go home any sooner would be if this
(15:58):
law changed. And you've founded a nonprofit organization from insight,
I believe the original goal of that was just to
change this law and try to get yourself released, right. Yeah,
So I found it Restore Justice officially in when we
got our nonprofit five one three status, but uh, we're
actually doing a lot of this work in and that's
when the law started to kind of take traction. Um.
(16:21):
We got a legislator behind it, um to say the
injustices of it. I used my story, other stories across
the nation, across the state women's stories who were the
non killer in the in in the um in those crimes,
as well as our own data and statistics. The legislature
wanted some datas, wanted some statistics around these issues who
are the non killers and felt the murder cases. But
(16:44):
under California prison system, they didn't have that. They classified
all of us as the actual killer under murder robbery.
They didn't make a distinction of who was the killer
who was a non killer, And so when we asked
to do a survey, um if they could help us
with the survey, this is the Department of Corrections, they
said no or put us through a bunch of loopholes.
So what we did was a very um, I guess
it clever um work around. I made a questionnaire inside
(17:08):
as simple as possible under trying to um make it
as simple for the people, for myself and people inside
to see if they fit under that law. And we
had a bunch of chaplains, rabbis uh I moms throughout
the prison system kind of like sneak it in and
then kind of handed to the people inside. Then they
would make copies through the through their own methods and
means and ways inside and next thing, you know, um,
(17:31):
in our mailbox outside, we started getting a bunch of letters,
a bunch of surveys back, and then we had a
whole team to make sure that that was accurate, if
in there, if their cases did actually fit that. And
you know, that's when we found out that seventy women
under under this law where the non killer UM doing
time in California. We found out over two thousand people
(17:51):
were affected by this law that were the non killer
in this felony murder law. And that's statistic, by the way,
is to call it what it is, it's just out
it is. It is crazy, it is And that was
even like, you know, for me to read that while
I was incarcerated, to read that statistic was mind blowing
for me. I didn't think about it. I'm a lot
you know, obviously a lot of times women issues are
(18:13):
left behind, um and when we talk about incarceration, and
so that was a huge eye opener for me as
an incarcerated person serving life under felt the murder as
a male serving life under felony murder. And you know,
another thing was that we saw the different cases where
guys commit a burglary and there's a high speech chase
and an officer loses his or her life, loses their
(18:35):
life from an accident, not from a murder, and then
they both would get life. Um. There was a case
where two young kids, teenagers were about to burglarize a house,
which is wrong. The person inside starts shooting at them
and one of them passes away, and so the other
one gets the life sentence and conviction for his friend's death.
(18:57):
You know. So those those types of cases were sold
also so common and normal, um, And a lot of
youth do things in groups, whether it's to find camaraderie,
whether it's gangs, whether it's whatever, whatever it may be.
A lot of youth do things in groups. So this law,
what it did was kind of take a bunch of
people at one time and throw them all in prison
and for life. So like the success of this law
(19:20):
was kind of two fold, the front end and the
back end. The back end is the bill is retroactive
and so people are going to are getting out of prison.
So through this law, we're decarcerating people, and not only
just decarcerating, but specifically people sentence to life. And then
on the front end is no one else will be
in Kanada, state of California will be charged with this
law and be sentenced to life moving forward. So and
(19:43):
that is truly miraculous. And this law is going to
help a lot of people, and in fact it already has.
But let's back up for just a second. Let's talk
about the Moment of truth. Spe was passed in August
and in January two only nineteen. It goes into a
fact what happened next? So um it was. I remember
(20:06):
it was like the second third week of January. It's
like January sevent I remember going to bed like eleven
o'clock at night, actually falling asleep, I mean around eleven
o'clock at night. And then around twelve thirty, twelve forty,
a correctional officer wakes me up and slides two clear
trash bags under my cell and he says, hey, pack
your stuff. County Jails coming and pick you up. And
(20:26):
I remember like waking up my sleep and kind of
frustrated anger. I'm like, hey, this is a clerical error,
this is a mistake. I don't know why they're coming
to pick me up. Um, and so I just in
a frustrating way, I pack all my stuff in these
clear trash bags. Uh. Longer story short, they transport me
to county jail. They finally put me in in a
jumpsuit and I didn't sleep for almost a day, ate
(20:50):
maybe a carton of milk, drank a carton of milk,
and ate one piece of blowny sandwich and the intake.
And then they finally at midnight put me in a
cell and woke me up again for am So I
had about four hours of sleep after twenty four hours.
So they marched me into the courtroom. And before getting
the courtroom, the bailiff says, hey, there's a bunch of
people here. I'm gonna put you in first and the
(21:11):
people will come in. You're not allowed to look back.
Do not look back when people walk in. You may
speak to your attorney that's next to you, but don't
look back. So I get in there, he unhandcuffs me. Um.
Then I hear people walking in, a bunch of friends,
my family. I hear their voices. Apparently, I still don't
know what until this day would it looked like. But
apparently the courtroom was standing room only with just my supporters.
(21:34):
But before that, I turned to my attorney I asked
her if the victims family was here, and the reason
I asked that because I didn't want to re victimize
or reharm them in any way if they either saw
me after what sixteen years um, or if I if
they heard me, if I had to like answer to
the judge for some reason. So my attorney said that, no,
the victims family is not here. And my following question
to her, I said, hey, as soon as this hearing
(21:57):
is over. I remember MLK weekend. It was a Friday,
and I told as soon as it's hearing or whatever
this dry run is, whenever this is over, can you
please send me back to San Quentin. The super Bowl
is next week, Like I want to go back and
watch the super Bowl. I don't want to be here.
She said, yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll take care of it.
So that's where my mind was at that time. So
literally seconds later, and watch the judge. Now this is
(22:18):
the same judge that sentenced me to twenty five life,
the same judge that I saw for practically four years
filing my emotions and and all that stuff. So in
walks the judge, we rise, we sit down. She says, okay,
Mr Khan. I looked at your case and your files. Uh.
And I looked at the new legislation. So what I'm
going to do is I'm going to resentence you for
(22:39):
the robbery to three years. And by then, Um, I
had done sixteen years. And she says, since you've done
more than five times that amount of the three years,
I'm going to be releasing you today. And I just
sat there. All of her was gas and cries in
the background, and I froze. Um. I couldn't believe what
she said, Like just five seconds. God, I wanted to
(23:00):
go back to San Quentin to watch the super Bowl,
and you're telling me you're releasing me today. Yeah, man?
And so uh and then she says, I'm not putting
you on parole or probation. That's excessive, and that she
looked at my family and my supporters, and she says,
he probably has an hour or so to process out,
so you may want to get him some clothes and
get him out of those clothes when he comes out.
(23:21):
So um, yeah, man, a few hours later, come out
and I just don't know and never rest his history.
I guess that is an amazing and inspiring story. I
mean the fact that you saw this need to get
the law change, somehow figured it out, picked up the
ball and ran with it and actually got it over
(23:43):
the goal line. It never ceases to amaze me. The
idea that this is something that not only could be done,
but that you managed to do it, and the fact
that you were the first person to get out under
that revised law is awesome and it's like poetic justice
in a certain way. I appreciate it. Man. There were
a lot of obviously like, um, you know, I guess,
(24:05):
I guess publicly, I get public facing credit for it,
but there's so many people that aren't seen or heard
or that are part of the success of this a
huge part, and so UM very grateful and thankful for
all of them. But one amazing thing that that I
do feel proud of, we all feel proud of, is
that this law was started from inside the prison walls.
Limited access to information, limited access to people, but there
(24:27):
was ambition, there was drive, there was a hope, there
was never giving up spirit, the fight for your life,
um spirit. And so this law was created from in prison,
from an organization that was created in prison, and was
passed essentially from inside, and then I end up being
the first person re sentenced under the bill that we
created from in prison, from our organization in prison. And
(24:49):
so that part I really want to like tell people
who have been in cars rated, or who are in
cars rated, or people who are working with in cars
rated people like the energy, the the labor of love
UM that was behind this is the you can't put
tangibility to that, right that that's just something that UH
comes from a deep space of of love and and
(25:10):
this never giving up spirit and the organization again what's
(25:36):
called restored justice. So just to take a sidebar here,
we talk a lot about restorative justice on this show,
and it seems like there's so much misunderstanding about what
that actually means, so I don't I'd love to get
your take on its. Restorative justice is UM mainly about
repairing harm, and so there's there's two approaches to this
(25:57):
that aren't necessarily simultanous. Most people think we store if
justice is having the person that's responsible for harm hurry
up and meet the person that has been harmed, and
that's not not the case. And so in our work,
you want to make sure that both sides are ready
to even have that meeting. But restorative justice more like
repairing the damage that's been caused one on the person,
(26:19):
why why they committed the harm? Like, what is you know,
hurt people, hurt people. Everyone's heard that so much. But
I went from an eight year old little league baseball
player to an eighteen year old with a life sentence
and that trauma, that harm that I received, and the
violence that I received UM in those ten years, UM
contributed to mine my violence. So what is the repairing
that needs to be done in my heart and my soul?
(26:40):
And is it housing? I was homeless, I was by
the time I was arrested. I was a parentless, homeless,
high school dropout, And any one of those things would
have probably could have stopped me from going going to
prison or committing my harm. And then on the other end,
is what is the repair that the survivors and the
victims need, you know, especially something so tragic as losing
a loved one. What is that we haven't identified that
(27:02):
that hasn't been so publicized. And one thing that we
don't understand is that a lot of people don't even
think about this. District attorneys do not represent the victims.
District attorneys, by law, represent the state. So there's been
so many cases in my organization that I learned from
victims that if they wanted restorative justice and they approached
the district attorneys with that, the district attorneys wouldn't give
(27:24):
that to them because it didn't contribute to their narrative
of conviction. And so what the first people that survivors
and victims meet is the district attorney, and the district
attorney tells them, this is what your healing looks like.
I'm here for you, going to fight for you. Your
healing looks like a life sentence, death penalty, and and
the longest sentence inside, the more we punish this person,
the better you'll feel. And that's such a warped and
(27:46):
distorted way of like thinking about what what justice looks like,
you know. And so when I was locked up, I
was never told to make an amend. I was never
told to be accountable. I was never told to go
fix myself. None of that. I did that all on
my own. So our system doesn't hold you accountable, It
just holds you. So no one that actually ever gets
any type of healing on either end. And that's what
(28:08):
the um it turns into institutionalized violence. Right. So the
systemic violence from that, uh, and the cycle just continues.
And so restorative justice is is such a deeper concept
that it goes way beyond the initial impulse of just
the two people hurry up and meeting together, and that's
not the case. So so first and foremost, Restore Justice
(28:31):
was started to try and get the Valley Murder rule
or return. But you didn't just leave it there, right,
You went on and it's gone on to do other
great things and you've had some really amazing successes, I understand. Yeah. Yeah,
So the main thing about Restore Justice, what we say
it was the law, right, but actually I couldn't say
that publicly. Inside you're not allowed to be an activist inside,
(28:52):
So even though the law was being done, it was
kind of being done secretly. But the main thing that
Restore Justice did, um was work around life sentences. So
under our staff we had people who were who have
lost loved ones to murder, and then people on our
staff who had committed murder and who were once sentence
to life who are out now and literally hand in
(29:13):
hand with the victims, survivors and people who have committed
such harm, we will go to the state capitals and
advocate for a better restorative system. So that was what
was going on for a long time. One thing that
another success that we had once I came home was
we got a budget play where we were giving five
million dollars to start not US, but to UM an
organization UM to five million dollars to have an alternative
(29:37):
to UH to incarceration, have restorative justice pilot program in
San Joaquin County. So that was a really really big success.
We're also big part of the pandemic relief UM, you know,
incarcerated the people. UM. We raised over a hundred thousand
dollars and within a year or two UH and we
were giving fifty dollars at a time to incarcerated people
on their prison accounts so they could buy a hygiene
(30:00):
and food and UM you know, and then and also
advocating for releases. The governor not releasing around eight thousand
people during this time. So there was a lot that
was being done. UM kind of like all hands on,
especially during the pandemic and continuing our restorative justice work
and reframing violence. But our our organization sun set it
towards the end of last year UM with the with
(30:23):
funding issues and it was hard to raise money during
the pandemic. Yeah, so unfortunately sunset, but it was time.
It was time to sunset, and I guess move on. Well,
only good thing that's come out of that, I guess
is that you'll have more time for some of your
other exciting projects. So tell us about First Watch, the
program you started to introduce filmmaking as a restorative tool
(30:46):
for in cars rated people. How did that come about? Yeah,
I mean, I think that's a big part of the
story I've I've hardly talked about because just wasn't part
of the narrative, I guess right. But before the family
Murder rule law, before the Restored Justice Organization, the first
first thing that I did was actually start a film
project called First Watch, and from that invited a bunch
of philanthropists and was pitching idea of a film project
(31:09):
where incarcerated people UM took control of their own narrative.
And so I ended up getting a big chunk of
funding and somehow convinced administration allow us to get UM
almost like two worth of equipment, computers, editing software, Mike's boom,
Mikes lab, Mike's lighting equipment, you name it. I still
have videos and pictures of a huge, huge palette being
(31:30):
delivered into what we call the media center in sam Quentin. Um.
So that's what actually started first, and that's and we
started learning film. I started teaching film to each other.
We don't have internet access inside obviously, UM, so we
would learn by either reading books that we would order
or literally watching TV or commercials and counting how long
each clip last, what angle they used, Um, how do
(31:52):
how do they sell a product a sprite, a bottle
of a sprite or cannon sprite in thirty seconds? Like
how do you do that? Right? And so we learned lighting,
we learned editing, we learned storyboarding, we learned cinematography. So
I did film for four years, um straight. When when
I was in there, that was my job, that was
my my life, my vision. I want to do comedy.
(32:13):
So we made a bunch of funny videos. One was
called Selfies ce l l Um and it was like
a play on MTV cribs. So the guy would be like,
come on then, and let me show you my living room,
my bed, my kitchen, you know, in my bathroom and
this and that. So it was just UM trying to
use humor. So those types of things um. The idea
around again was to let us be the storytellers, let
(32:35):
us tell our own story. In Hollywood and CITs nationalized
media has has taken control of our identity. And at
the same time, we're artists, like we're not formally incarcerated filmmakers,
were filmmakers who are formally incarcerated, or we're filmmakers who
are currently incarcerated. And so that when I came home
it was a blessing. I had two options. Pursue film
(32:56):
UM and there were offers and opportunities there, or the
come the executive director officially of my organization, and I
wanted to. It was kind of no doubt in my brain,
like I wanted to in my heart to be the
executive director of nonprofit of of of my organization and
continue to give back and help people I left behind
get out. But I knew eventually when the time would
come in my heart and my soul that I wanted UM.
(33:18):
I want to do something creative. I feel like I'm
an artist at heart. I want to create. I fell
in love with film. It's crazy how when during my
commission of my crime, the reason I did that was
to go become homeless in l A and figure something
out with comedy or even film. Then and then when
I get to San Quentin about twelve thirteen years later,
(33:38):
I'm gonna place the media center and and the film project.
Allowed to do a film project is just from the
universe was speaking to me. So about six months ago
I finally started to do film. And my main job
is I work under a foundation. And in this foundation
that I giveaway grants to filmmakers who are formally incarcerated
(34:01):
and help them along the way in their process. Put
a team around them, a support, moral support team, a
team of whether they're editors or directors or producers, writers,
whatever they want to be. Just put some help and
support around that around them and build build like a
cohort of peer support as well of filmmakers who are
formally incarcerated and across the nation. So yeah, that's my
(34:24):
main job and it's been amazing. And the name of
that foundation, I understand is First Watch Filmmakers. So add on,
how can our listeners get in touch if they want
to help out? So if you would like to contribute
and help out and donate for other impacted and formally
in cars rated filmmakers, uh to make their films, their docs,
(34:45):
their short films. You can reach out to me on
my social media account A con it's a K H
A N four seven on Twitter or Instagram. Great, we'll
put all that information in our biou so it folks
out there want to donate, or maybe or someone who
could benefit from one of the grants, or maybe you
just know someone who is or who will. We've got
(35:07):
a couple more things to talk about, but first I
want to remind listeners to tune in next week. My
guests will be the truly remarkable Ramarlon Ralston, a prison abolitionist,
scholar and the executive director of College and Community Fellowship
in New York. She's an incredibly inspiring human and I
know you won't want to miss it. And now addn Kan.
First of all, thank you so much for being here
(35:28):
today to tell us your amazing story. And now we
have two things left to do. The first one is
a question. It's my favorite question. It's the magic one question.
So if I had a magic wand and could grant
you any one wish, what would it be? Oh my gosh,
what a what a oh my gosh? What does magic wand?
(35:52):
I would put a magic wand and everyone's hand if
I love that man, big ones for everyone, And what's
the outcome you would wish for? What would be the
culmination of these billions and billions of wishes? Um peace piece,
piece of heart, peace in the heart, tranquility, ease, um, euphoria.
(36:20):
Everything else will be taken care of after that. And
finally the final segment, which is appropriately called words of Wisdom.
And this is the part of the show where I
turn off my my turn up my headphones, kick back
in my chair, and just listen to any last words
you want to share with our listeners. So take it
away on noncon m hmm. Words of wisdom. That's a
(36:44):
tough one. I think that the only thing I can
say is that how grateful I am of of everyone
that is even listening, people who care. Nothing can be
done alone in terms of surviving inside. We were isolated.
We are alone, but there's always a piece of hope,
somebody somewhere something. Even if we're not connected with people,
we know that people are out here doing something. People
(37:07):
are out here going to the legislative offices, or doing podcasts,
or making films or putting putting kids on buses to
come see their children. There's there's so many efforts that
are being done. I just want everyone know that that
stuff gets two people inside and it provides that hope
and that energy on days where there isn't motivation, on
days where you're just sitting there or lying there on
your mattress and you don't want to pick up a
(37:27):
book and you don't want to turn your TV on,
you don't want to do anything but just just lie there.
These efforts to everyone that is making out here helps
us to get up, helps us to go ahead and
do that workout, helps us to go ahead and go
pick up that book or read or do an assignment
or whatever it is. So I just want to thank
everybody out here for doing exactly what they have been
doing and contributing, getting involved and pushing against the system
(37:50):
that's built to destroy and hopefully creating a better one
that's more helpful, healthier and all inclusive. So I'll just
leave off by saying thank you to everyone who's listening,
and thank you to everyone who cares. Thank you for
(38:12):
listening to Righteous Convictions with Jason Flam. I'd like to
thank our production team, Connor Hall, Annie Chelsea, Jeff Clever
and Lila Robinson and Kevin Wardis. The music in this
production was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph.
Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter at Lava for Good.
You can also follow me on both TikTok and Instagram
(38:32):
at it's Jason Flom. Righteous Convictions with Jason Plomb is
a production of Lava for Good podcast and association with
Signal Company Number one h
Welcome to Righteous Convictions with Jason Flam the podcast where
I have the privilege of speaking with people who see
the wrong in the world and are driven to make
it right. At the age of eighteen, today's guest was
convicted under California's felony murder statute for a crime in
which he was not the killer. Nonetheless, he was given
a sense of twenty five years to life. But he
(00:27):
managed to free himself after sixteen long years. How did
he do it by getting a new law passed. And
so this law was created from in prison, from an
organization that was created in prison, and was passed essentially
from inside. And so that part I really want to
like to tell people who have been incarge rated or
(00:47):
are incars rated, or people who are working with encourage
rated people like the energy, the labor of love that
was behind this. You can't put tangibility to that right
that that's just something that comes from a deep space
of of love and and this never giving up spirit.
Since his release, he's continued to advocate for reform and
(01:09):
promote restorative justice through the organization Restored Justice. Add non
con Right Now on Righteous Convictions. Welcome back to Righteous Convictions.
(01:37):
With Jason Flang. You know, when I started this podcast,
I had a general idea of the type of guests
I wanted to interview in the type of work I
wanted to highlight, and today's guests Odd non Kan is
like he's a bull's eye is the epitome of what
I had in mind. I mean, you talk about transformation,
you talk about channeling tragedy into triumph, and you've got
to come back around to buy friend dot non con
(01:58):
so add I'm so ei. You're here, Welcome to Righteous Convictions.
Thank you, thank you for having me, and I'm really
thrilled that we're here to talk about this because we're
going to take our listeners on a journey today. And
this one goes back to a crime that you were
involved in. Don't make any bones about that, but when
you were just eighteen years old right now, this is
(02:20):
not a pure innocen's case. You were involved in the
robbery of a guy who was going to sell you
some marijuana, and it's important that we make that distinction.
But in the process of this robbery, the young man
was unfortunately killed by the person that you were with,
not by you. Now, under belly murder laws, as they
were in California at that time, and as they still
(02:40):
are in most states. You're considered just as guilty as
the person who actually committed the murder, although that was
not your intention and you weren't the person that did devied.
So we'll get to that story in the circumstances surrounding
that incident and the trajectory it started you on. But
first let's rewind a little further. What was your life
growing up? You know, in the first like seventeen plus
(03:03):
years before this thing happened. Um, yeah, growing up, man,
I felt like, um, well, growing up, I was a
happy kid. I love to laugh. Comedy was a big
thing for me. Cartoons obviously, what kid doesn't cartoons and cereal, right, um?
But also there were a lot of challenges my father.
My parents divorce when I was eight years old, and
I think the beginning of my challenges started when, um
(03:26):
my father was absent basically, so he was in and
out of my life. And I always wondered while I
was during my incarceration, what my life would have been
like if my father was all the way in my life,
or what my life would have been like if my
father was all the way out, but for me, because
he was in and out, UM, it created more of
a tease for a need for a positive male role model, UM,
(03:50):
place of belonging. And so that really contributed to UM
kind of resenting home, not wanting to be home. Seeking
UM my father seeing where he was, I would literally
take the bus or take the subway of what it's
called bart in California or northern California, and I will
go look for him, UM different places, asked some of
(04:11):
his friends where he would be at. So that desire
for me really contributed to a lot of my behaviors
of of needing and wanting a positive male role model
and friendships. UM. And then after that, my mom remarried
and I was twelve years old at this time, and
that's where a lot of the abuse started from my stepfather. UM.
He would grab me, throw me on the ground, UM,
(04:32):
throw me in the car and tell me I'm gonna
throw you over the bridge. UM. One time he tried
to put something in my eye which really burns. It
was some type of acid poison. I'm not sure, but
a little bit of drop guy into my right eye. UM.
He paid my best friend ten dollars to try to
beat me up. He would have he would steal things
from my mom, or have my step brothers or his
kids steal things from a mom, put in my jacket
(04:54):
in coat pocket and say that I was stealing. Um
effectively took me out of my little league baseball that
I loved. One thing that baseball provided for me was
UM that positive male role model. I had other peers
that were just like me. So I had I felt
like I had a place of belonging in sports, and
he knew that. So Um, I was effectively taken out
(05:14):
of baseball, and I just didn't want to be in
the home anymore. So I would at twelve years or
I'll run away or not come home, or stay outside
as much as possible, playing basketball or just swinging a bat. Um.
And then after that, in my teens, I started smoking weed, drinking,
and cutting school. Even though I was a good student. Uh.
(05:34):
I remember getting straight a's in sixth grade and straight
a's in ninth grade. Um, So school wasn't UM, It's difficult,
just I couldn't continue with all emotional baggage. So during
my teens, UM I was kind of in and out
of school. I went to about seven different high schools,
just getting in fights, moving. I haven't seen my dad
(05:55):
since I was fourteen. Actually that's when he fully disappeared.
And by the time I was seven teen, my mom
remarried for the third time and moved out of state.
UM and about a month later, my uncle kicked me
out of the house at the age of seventeen. So
I lived homeless for about a year, slept in cars, parks,
friends houses, couches, um tennis courts, on the porch of
(06:18):
my cousin's house because I wasn't allowed in there, just
anywhere I could. And that lasted for almost about a year.
But then I tried to get a job, but I
was a high school drop out at that time. By then,
UM I had turned eighteen under those conditions, and I
even enrolled myself into adult school, but I didn't have
enough money for transportation to go to adult school. UM
and there's things look really bad and ugly. And so
(06:39):
one day I was um with a group of friends,
which where I was introduced to another friend and he
found out my situation. UM I was eighteen by now
he was twenty two, and he asked me to come,
you know, whenever I want to come stay with him.
So I lived with him for about almost two months
on and off, and UH, one night when I was
with him and his friends, that's when they UM said, Hey,
(07:00):
there's a guy that has a thousand dollars worth of weed.
He doesn't have guns, knives, weapons. I've never had guns,
knives and weapons on me either, And they said, in
a fake drug deal, take this thousand dollars worth of weed,
run into a car and the driver will drive off.
And so immediately and impulsively agreed to that. My goal
was to take my portions of it sell it. And
(07:22):
I told myself, if I'm going to be homeless in
the Bay Area, I'd rather be homeless in l A.
And I want to actually, um try to pursue a
comedy career. I don't know what I was gonna do,
but it was definitely comedy because my whole life it
was comedy that that got me by. But UM, that
night is when my life changed and that's when I
was incarcerated from that night. Okay, so you've agreed to
(07:46):
help these dudes robbed the guy with the marijuana. So
the big night comes. What was the plan and what
were you supposed to do? Um? And So that night
when this young man came down, we my friends who
I was with call the Bagetta Way driver. They set
up the fake drug deal because they knew him and
I didn't, and so that's why I was a person
to act like I was buying it from him. Once
(08:06):
he handed it to me, sprint into a car and
the driver would drive off. So this getaway driver, who
I hardly knew, I met him one time, like in
passing that I remembered later. So when the young man
handed me the weed, the getaway driver was on the
passenger side of the car and pulled out this young
man out of the car and appeared to me that
they were fighting in the middle of the road, and
(08:27):
so I started yelling and screaming like get back in
the car, what are you doing? What are you doing? Um?
And then that's when he ran back into the car.
We sped off and the next morning I was arrested
at two am. I didn't know what I was being
arrested for. They don't They didn't remember Miranda rights. Um.
I asked the officer who was taking me to the
police station what my charges were, and he wouldn't answer.
I get to the police station, they take all my clothes,
(08:48):
strip search to all the forensics, and finally I was
taken into the interrogation room, um, and that's when they
told me that we're charging you with robbery and murder.
And at first it didn't computing. They said that this
young man had us his life, and that's when I
remembered just breaking down and crying. It didn't make any
sense to me. I want to want to know how
it happened, and they said that the that they have
(09:09):
evidence that um, he was stabbed. And so find out.
I find out that my getaway driver who became my
co defendant, he was a young black male years old,
bipolar schizophrenic, had a list of like eight pills that
he wasn't taking um from his bipolar schizophrenia, and from
those eight pills, apparently because of his schizophrenia and his paranoia,
(09:31):
he had a concealed knife that he didn't tell any
one of us about. And so that night he what
the court paper said, he snapped where he snaps in
and out of reality and and blacks out and has
a violent outburst. And so that's what ended up happening
and very unfortunately took this young man's life and so
that's when I learned about my involvement. And then the
felony murder rule where it said that that I'm equally
(09:54):
guilty of the murder because I committed a felony. So
what that would look like in trial? If if the
the audience, so the listeners here are the jurors, your
job was only to find me guilty of an intent
to commit a robbery. And so literally my trial started
off with the district attorney saying, ladies and gentlemen of
the jury, UM, I'm gonna tell you right now that
(10:16):
Mr Khan did not commit a murder. Um, that's not
why we're here. Your only job is to prove with
the reasonable doubt that Mr Khan had an intent to
commit a robbery. So basically the jury's job was done.
They found me guilty. I was guilty, um of an
intent to commit a robbery. I still am. And so
once they found me guilty, their job was done. They
(10:36):
went home to their families and the next phase was
the judge's phase. Several months later, and the judge had
to sentence me to a mandatory twenty life sentence under
the Feildy murder rule. After my convince the jury found
me guilty, and before the judge here comes these a
couple of forensic psychologists. They do all sorts of test
over a period of one week, and when the report
(10:57):
came back, it said in the report that had it
not then for this mandatory sentence, we would recommend probation
for Mr Khan. And so after all of that, just
being found guilty of a robbery murder, they still said
that we would recommend probation, but obviously they couldn't because
of the mandatory sentence. But you had never intended on
(11:18):
anyone getting killed. You were just a kid who was
gonna go help rip this guy off for some pot
doing something you know, unquestionably stupid, like a lot of
kids do at that age. What were you thinking when
you heard that prison sentence come down? Were you like, WHOA,
this is like not only unfair but unreal. You know,
(11:40):
I do I do still, I want to add like,
I do still take responsibility for like what I did.
And there's a big part of me. I mean yeah,
you know, being being locked up and and you sit there.
A lot of people will see the cessationalized part of prison, right,
and that's the most common thing about you know the fights,
the riots, But the truth is the fights and the
riots the last matter of seconds. And so with society
doesn't see or think about is what we do the
(12:02):
rest of the What is it twenty three hours and
fifty nine minutes right, What those conversations are, what those
self reflections are. Um. We talk about remorse and and
we have victim awareness. We we think about mortality. Um,
if we're not forgiven in this life, and if we're
going to die in this life, then what is the
next life? Like? How can I make up? How can
I do a living amends here? And so even though
(12:25):
yes I did not intend nor did I kill a
victim in in my case, I still hold myself responsible. UM,
I do understand like there is someone that UM, a
mother who has lost the child, a father who has
lost the child, the sister and brother who have lost
a sibling, and that never leaves me, you know. And
so even though I'm not, I guess fully I live
(12:45):
in this awkward um space of what people say. And
I don't like to use the word innocent, but I
guess for the sake of this conversation innocent and then guilty.
And I feel like I'm in the middle of that,
Like my whole incarceration, even up until this day, I
did do something wrong. I didn't do it to the
extent that they're saying in or did I intend to.
But I hold myself responsible internally with the remorse and
(13:09):
in the active making of amends righteous convictions with Jason
(13:29):
flam is super excited and honored to have the support
of a great organization like Galaxy Gives. Galaxy Gives leads
the filanthropic efforts of the Novograds family. They invest in organizations, campaigns,
and leaders who are directly impacted by and working to
dismantle the current punitive justice system. Galaxy Gives also builds
power for the community's most harmed by mass incarceration and
(13:51):
forges transformative solutions for responding to that harm. They envision
a society where the structural barriers created by racism, poverty,
and inequali here and no more, where instead all people
have the dignity, freedom and rights needed to thrive. So
(14:14):
you go from that eighteen year old with the twenty
five to life sentence to somebody who was primarily responsible
for legislation that ended up not only leading to your freedom,
but to the freedom of countless other deserving people who
were sentenced under the felty murder rule in California. I'm
talking about Senate Bill fourteen thirty seven, which you initiated
and fought for and which was passed into law in
(14:35):
two thousand eighteen. And not only that, you did this
from the inside, from behind the big walls, those intimidating
walls of San Quentin Prison. I mean, that's incredible, It's
absolutely heroic. So I mean, how did this happen? Take
us through that journey? Yeah, definitely. Um, you know my
(14:55):
first four years while I was I was in County
jail fighting this case. Um so it was eighteen years
eighteen to twenty two years old, and um, I just
remember like becoming I guess, this little young Dale House lawyer.
I studied the crap out of the felony murder rule
and and robbery and all sorts of murder. Just that's
all I was doing, exhausting myself with educating myself, learning
(15:17):
learning about the law as much as I can, and
to a point where when I was found guilty, I
was just I knew that the only way for me
to go home was if the felony murder rule changed.
So when I was sentenced and take into state prison,
though I did appeal in my case, but I just
I did it out of formality, I guess, Um. I
knew that the by law, the court had not made
(15:38):
an error, and that's what would help me in my appeal. Like, Okay,
we we have findings that the court made an error,
but the court didn't. They did everything right under that law.
So I knew that eventually if I were to go home,
would be either in twenty five years and then at
the Pearl Board if they find me suitable in twenty
five years. But I knew that the only way for
me to go home any sooner would be if this
(15:58):
law changed. And you've founded a nonprofit organization from insight,
I believe the original goal of that was just to
change this law and try to get yourself released, right. Yeah,
So I found it Restore Justice officially in when we
got our nonprofit five one three status, but uh, we're
actually doing a lot of this work in and that's
when the law started to kind of take traction. Um.
(16:21):
We got a legislator behind it, um to say the
injustices of it. I used my story, other stories across
the nation, across the state women's stories who were the
non killer in the in in the um in those crimes,
as well as our own data and statistics. The legislature
wanted some datas, wanted some statistics around these issues who
are the non killers and felt the murder cases. But
(16:44):
under California prison system, they didn't have that. They classified
all of us as the actual killer under murder robbery.
They didn't make a distinction of who was the killer
who was a non killer, And so when we asked
to do a survey, um if they could help us
with the survey, this is the Department of Corrections, they
said no or put us through a bunch of loopholes.
So what we did was a very um, I guess
it clever um work around. I made a questionnaire inside
(17:08):
as simple as possible under trying to um make it
as simple for the people, for myself and people inside
to see if they fit under that law. And we
had a bunch of chaplains, rabbis uh I moms throughout
the prison system kind of like sneak it in and
then kind of handed to the people inside. Then they
would make copies through the through their own methods and
means and ways inside and next thing, you know, um,
(17:31):
in our mailbox outside, we started getting a bunch of letters,
a bunch of surveys back, and then we had a
whole team to make sure that that was accurate, if
in there, if their cases did actually fit that. And
you know, that's when we found out that seventy women
under under this law where the non killer UM doing
time in California. We found out over two thousand people
(17:51):
were affected by this law that were the non killer
in this felony murder law. And that's statistic, by the way,
is to call it what it is, it's just out
it is. It is crazy, it is And that was
even like, you know, for me to read that while
I was incarcerated, to read that statistic was mind blowing
for me. I didn't think about it. I'm a lot
you know, obviously a lot of times women issues are
(18:13):
left behind, um and when we talk about incarceration, and
so that was a huge eye opener for me as
an incarcerated person serving life under felt the murder as
a male serving life under felony murder. And you know,
another thing was that we saw the different cases where
guys commit a burglary and there's a high speech chase
and an officer loses his or her life, loses their
(18:35):
life from an accident, not from a murder, and then
they both would get life. Um. There was a case
where two young kids, teenagers were about to burglarize a house,
which is wrong. The person inside starts shooting at them
and one of them passes away, and so the other
one gets the life sentence and conviction for his friend's death.
(18:57):
You know. So those those types of cases were sold
also so common and normal, um, And a lot of
youth do things in groups, whether it's to find camaraderie,
whether it's gangs, whether it's whatever, whatever it may be.
A lot of youth do things in groups. So this law,
what it did was kind of take a bunch of
people at one time and throw them all in prison
and for life. So like the success of this law
(19:20):
was kind of two fold, the front end and the
back end. The back end is the bill is retroactive
and so people are going to are getting out of prison.
So through this law, we're decarcerating people, and not only
just decarcerating, but specifically people sentence to life. And then
on the front end is no one else will be
in Kanada, state of California will be charged with this
law and be sentenced to life moving forward. So and
(19:43):
that is truly miraculous. And this law is going to
help a lot of people, and in fact it already has.
But let's back up for just a second. Let's talk
about the Moment of truth. Spe was passed in August
and in January two only nineteen. It goes into a
fact what happened next? So um it was. I remember
(20:06):
it was like the second third week of January. It's
like January sevent I remember going to bed like eleven
o'clock at night, actually falling asleep, I mean around eleven
o'clock at night. And then around twelve thirty, twelve forty,
a correctional officer wakes me up and slides two clear
trash bags under my cell and he says, hey, pack
your stuff. County Jails coming and pick you up. And
(20:26):
I remember like waking up my sleep and kind of
frustrated anger. I'm like, hey, this is a clerical error,
this is a mistake. I don't know why they're coming
to pick me up. Um, and so I just in
a frustrating way, I pack all my stuff in these
clear trash bags. Uh. Longer story short, they transport me
to county jail. They finally put me in in a
jumpsuit and I didn't sleep for almost a day, ate
(20:50):
maybe a carton of milk, drank a carton of milk,
and ate one piece of blowny sandwich and the intake.
And then they finally at midnight put me in a
cell and woke me up again for am So I
had about four hours of sleep after twenty four hours.
So they marched me into the courtroom. And before getting
the courtroom, the bailiff says, hey, there's a bunch of
people here. I'm gonna put you in first and the
(21:11):
people will come in. You're not allowed to look back.
Do not look back when people walk in. You may
speak to your attorney that's next to you, but don't
look back. So I get in there, he unhandcuffs me. Um.
Then I hear people walking in, a bunch of friends,
my family. I hear their voices. Apparently, I still don't
know what until this day would it looked like. But
apparently the courtroom was standing room only with just my supporters.
(21:34):
But before that, I turned to my attorney I asked
her if the victims family was here, and the reason
I asked that because I didn't want to re victimize
or reharm them in any way if they either saw
me after what sixteen years um, or if I if
they heard me, if I had to like answer to
the judge for some reason. So my attorney said that, no,
the victims family is not here. And my following question
to her, I said, hey, as soon as this hearing
(21:57):
is over. I remember MLK weekend. It was a Friday,
and I told as soon as it's hearing or whatever
this dry run is, whenever this is over, can you
please send me back to San Quentin. The super Bowl
is next week, Like I want to go back and
watch the super Bowl. I don't want to be here.
She said, yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll take care of it.
So that's where my mind was at that time. So
literally seconds later, and watch the judge. Now this is
(22:18):
the same judge that sentenced me to twenty five life,
the same judge that I saw for practically four years
filing my emotions and and all that stuff. So in
walks the judge, we rise, we sit down. She says, okay,
Mr Khan. I looked at your case and your files. Uh.
And I looked at the new legislation. So what I'm
going to do is I'm going to resentence you for
(22:39):
the robbery to three years. And by then, Um, I
had done sixteen years. And she says, since you've done
more than five times that amount of the three years,
I'm going to be releasing you today. And I just
sat there. All of her was gas and cries in
the background, and I froze. Um. I couldn't believe what
she said, Like just five seconds. God, I wanted to
(23:00):
go back to San Quentin to watch the super Bowl,
and you're telling me you're releasing me today. Yeah, man?
And so uh and then she says, I'm not putting
you on parole or probation. That's excessive, and that she
looked at my family and my supporters, and she says,
he probably has an hour or so to process out,
so you may want to get him some clothes and
get him out of those clothes when he comes out.
(23:21):
So um, yeah, man, a few hours later, come out
and I just don't know and never rest his history.
I guess that is an amazing and inspiring story. I
mean the fact that you saw this need to get
the law change, somehow figured it out, picked up the
ball and ran with it and actually got it over
(23:43):
the goal line. It never ceases to amaze me. The
idea that this is something that not only could be done,
but that you managed to do it, and the fact
that you were the first person to get out under
that revised law is awesome and it's like poetic justice
in a certain way. I appreciate it. Man. There were
a lot of obviously like, um, you know, I guess,
(24:05):
I guess publicly, I get public facing credit for it,
but there's so many people that aren't seen or heard
or that are part of the success of this a
huge part, and so UM very grateful and thankful for
all of them. But one amazing thing that that I
do feel proud of, we all feel proud of, is
that this law was started from inside the prison walls.
Limited access to information, limited access to people, but there
(24:27):
was ambition, there was drive, there was a hope, there
was never giving up spirit, the fight for your life,
um spirit. And so this law was created from in prison,
from an organization that was created in prison, and was
passed essentially from inside, and then I end up being
the first person re sentenced under the bill that we
created from in prison, from our organization in prison. And
(24:49):
so that part I really want to like tell people
who have been in cars rated, or who are in
cars rated, or people who are working with in cars
rated people like the energy, the the labor of love
UM that was behind this is the you can't put
tangibility to that, right that that's just something that UH
comes from a deep space of of love and and
(25:10):
this never giving up spirit and the organization again what's
(25:36):
called restored justice. So just to take a sidebar here,
we talk a lot about restorative justice on this show,
and it seems like there's so much misunderstanding about what
that actually means, so I don't I'd love to get
your take on its. Restorative justice is UM mainly about
repairing harm, and so there's there's two approaches to this
(25:57):
that aren't necessarily simultanous. Most people think we store if
justice is having the person that's responsible for harm hurry
up and meet the person that has been harmed, and
that's not not the case. And so in our work,
you want to make sure that both sides are ready
to even have that meeting. But restorative justice more like
repairing the damage that's been caused one on the person,
(26:19):
why why they committed the harm? Like, what is you know,
hurt people, hurt people. Everyone's heard that so much. But
I went from an eight year old little league baseball
player to an eighteen year old with a life sentence
and that trauma, that harm that I received, and the
violence that I received UM in those ten years, UM
contributed to mine my violence. So what is the repairing
that needs to be done in my heart and my soul?
(26:40):
And is it housing? I was homeless, I was by
the time I was arrested. I was a parentless, homeless,
high school dropout, And any one of those things would
have probably could have stopped me from going going to
prison or committing my harm. And then on the other end,
is what is the repair that the survivors and the
victims need, you know, especially something so tragic as losing
a loved one. What is that we haven't identified that
(27:02):
that hasn't been so publicized. And one thing that we
don't understand is that a lot of people don't even
think about this. District attorneys do not represent the victims.
District attorneys, by law, represent the state. So there's been
so many cases in my organization that I learned from
victims that if they wanted restorative justice and they approached
the district attorneys with that, the district attorneys wouldn't give
(27:24):
that to them because it didn't contribute to their narrative
of conviction. And so what the first people that survivors
and victims meet is the district attorney, and the district
attorney tells them, this is what your healing looks like.
I'm here for you, going to fight for you. Your
healing looks like a life sentence, death penalty, and and
the longest sentence inside, the more we punish this person,
the better you'll feel. And that's such a warped and
(27:46):
distorted way of like thinking about what what justice looks like,
you know. And so when I was locked up, I
was never told to make an amend. I was never
told to be accountable. I was never told to go
fix myself. None of that. I did that all on
my own. So our system doesn't hold you accountable, It
just holds you. So no one that actually ever gets
any type of healing on either end. And that's what
(28:08):
the um it turns into institutionalized violence. Right. So the
systemic violence from that, uh, and the cycle just continues.
And so restorative justice is is such a deeper concept
that it goes way beyond the initial impulse of just
the two people hurry up and meeting together, and that's
not the case. So so first and foremost, Restore Justice
(28:31):
was started to try and get the Valley Murder rule
or return. But you didn't just leave it there, right,
You went on and it's gone on to do other
great things and you've had some really amazing successes, I understand. Yeah. Yeah,
So the main thing about Restore Justice, what we say
it was the law, right, but actually I couldn't say
that publicly. Inside you're not allowed to be an activist inside,
(28:52):
So even though the law was being done, it was
kind of being done secretly. But the main thing that
Restore Justice did, um was work around life sentences. So
under our staff we had people who were who have
lost loved ones to murder, and then people on our
staff who had committed murder and who were once sentence
to life who are out now and literally hand in
(29:13):
hand with the victims, survivors and people who have committed
such harm, we will go to the state capitals and
advocate for a better restorative system. So that was what
was going on for a long time. One thing that
another success that we had once I came home was
we got a budget play where we were giving five
million dollars to start not US, but to UM an
organization UM to five million dollars to have an alternative
(29:37):
to UH to incarceration, have restorative justice pilot program in
San Joaquin County. So that was a really really big success.
We're also big part of the pandemic relief UM, you know,
incarcerated the people. UM. We raised over a hundred thousand
dollars and within a year or two UH and we
were giving fifty dollars at a time to incarcerated people
on their prison accounts so they could buy a hygiene
(30:00):
and food and UM you know, and then and also
advocating for releases. The governor not releasing around eight thousand
people during this time. So there was a lot that
was being done. UM kind of like all hands on,
especially during the pandemic and continuing our restorative justice work
and reframing violence. But our our organization sun set it
towards the end of last year UM with the with
(30:23):
funding issues and it was hard to raise money during
the pandemic. Yeah, so unfortunately sunset, but it was time.
It was time to sunset, and I guess move on. Well,
only good thing that's come out of that, I guess
is that you'll have more time for some of your
other exciting projects. So tell us about First Watch, the
program you started to introduce filmmaking as a restorative tool
(30:46):
for in cars rated people. How did that come about? Yeah,
I mean, I think that's a big part of the
story I've I've hardly talked about because just wasn't part
of the narrative, I guess right. But before the family
Murder rule law, before the Restored Justice Organization, the first
first thing that I did was actually start a film
project called First Watch, and from that invited a bunch
of philanthropists and was pitching idea of a film project
(31:09):
where incarcerated people UM took control of their own narrative.
And so I ended up getting a big chunk of
funding and somehow convinced administration allow us to get UM
almost like two worth of equipment, computers, editing software, Mike's boom,
Mikes lab, Mike's lighting equipment, you name it. I still
have videos and pictures of a huge, huge palette being
(31:30):
delivered into what we call the media center in sam Quentin. Um.
So that's what actually started first, and that's and we
started learning film. I started teaching film to each other.
We don't have internet access inside obviously, UM, so we
would learn by either reading books that we would order
or literally watching TV or commercials and counting how long
each clip last, what angle they used, Um, how do
(31:52):
how do they sell a product a sprite, a bottle
of a sprite or cannon sprite in thirty seconds? Like
how do you do that? Right? And so we learned lighting,
we learned editing, we learned storyboarding, we learned cinematography. So
I did film for four years, um straight. When when
I was in there, that was my job, that was
my my life, my vision. I want to do comedy.
(32:13):
So we made a bunch of funny videos. One was
called Selfies ce l l Um and it was like
a play on MTV cribs. So the guy would be like,
come on then, and let me show you my living room,
my bed, my kitchen, you know, in my bathroom and
this and that. So it was just UM trying to
use humor. So those types of things um. The idea
around again was to let us be the storytellers, let
(32:35):
us tell our own story. In Hollywood and CITs nationalized
media has has taken control of our identity. And at
the same time, we're artists, like we're not formally incarcerated filmmakers,
were filmmakers who are formally incarcerated, or we're filmmakers who
are currently incarcerated. And so that when I came home
it was a blessing. I had two options. Pursue film
(32:56):
UM and there were offers and opportunities there, or the
come the executive director officially of my organization, and I
wanted to. It was kind of no doubt in my brain,
like I wanted to in my heart to be the
executive director of nonprofit of of of my organization and
continue to give back and help people I left behind
get out. But I knew eventually when the time would
come in my heart and my soul that I wanted UM.
(33:18):
I want to do something creative. I feel like I'm
an artist at heart. I want to create. I fell
in love with film. It's crazy how when during my
commission of my crime, the reason I did that was
to go become homeless in l A and figure something
out with comedy or even film. Then and then when
I get to San Quentin about twelve thirteen years later,
(33:38):
I'm gonna place the media center and and the film project.
Allowed to do a film project is just from the
universe was speaking to me. So about six months ago
I finally started to do film. And my main job
is I work under a foundation. And in this foundation
that I giveaway grants to filmmakers who are formally incarcerated
(34:01):
and help them along the way in their process. Put
a team around them, a support, moral support team, a
team of whether they're editors or directors or producers, writers,
whatever they want to be. Just put some help and
support around that around them and build build like a
cohort of peer support as well of filmmakers who are
formally incarcerated and across the nation. So yeah, that's my
(34:24):
main job and it's been amazing. And the name of
that foundation, I understand is First Watch Filmmakers. So add on,
how can our listeners get in touch if they want
to help out? So if you would like to contribute
and help out and donate for other impacted and formally
in cars rated filmmakers, uh to make their films, their docs,
(34:45):
their short films. You can reach out to me on
my social media account A con it's a K H
A N four seven on Twitter or Instagram. Great, we'll
put all that information in our biou so it folks
out there want to donate, or maybe or someone who
could benefit from one of the grants, or maybe you
just know someone who is or who will. We've got
(35:07):
a couple more things to talk about, but first I
want to remind listeners to tune in next week. My
guests will be the truly remarkable Ramarlon Ralston, a prison abolitionist,
scholar and the executive director of College and Community Fellowship
in New York. She's an incredibly inspiring human and I
know you won't want to miss it. And now addn Kan.
First of all, thank you so much for being here
(35:28):
today to tell us your amazing story. And now we
have two things left to do. The first one is
a question. It's my favorite question. It's the magic one question.
So if I had a magic wand and could grant
you any one wish, what would it be? Oh my gosh,
what a what a oh my gosh? What does magic wand?
(35:52):
I would put a magic wand and everyone's hand if
I love that man, big ones for everyone, And what's
the outcome you would wish for? What would be the
culmination of these billions and billions of wishes? Um peace piece,
piece of heart, peace in the heart, tranquility, ease, um, euphoria.
(36:20):
Everything else will be taken care of after that. And
finally the final segment, which is appropriately called words of Wisdom.
And this is the part of the show where I
turn off my my turn up my headphones, kick back
in my chair, and just listen to any last words
you want to share with our listeners. So take it
away on noncon m hmm. Words of wisdom. That's a
(36:44):
tough one. I think that the only thing I can
say is that how grateful I am of of everyone
that is even listening, people who care. Nothing can be
done alone in terms of surviving inside. We were isolated.
We are alone, but there's always a piece of hope,
somebody somewhere something. Even if we're not connected with people,
we know that people are out here doing something. People
(37:07):
are out here going to the legislative offices, or doing podcasts,
or making films or putting putting kids on buses to
come see their children. There's there's so many efforts that
are being done. I just want everyone know that that
stuff gets two people inside and it provides that hope
and that energy on days where there isn't motivation, on
days where you're just sitting there or lying there on
your mattress and you don't want to pick up a
(37:27):
book and you don't want to turn your TV on,
you don't want to do anything but just just lie there.
These efforts to everyone that is making out here helps
us to get up, helps us to go ahead and
do that workout, helps us to go ahead and go
pick up that book or read or do an assignment
or whatever it is. So I just want to thank
everybody out here for doing exactly what they have been
doing and contributing, getting involved and pushing against the system
(37:50):
that's built to destroy and hopefully creating a better one
that's more helpful, healthier and all inclusive. So I'll just
leave off by saying thank you to everyone who's listening,
and thank you to everyone who cares. Thank you for
(38:12):
listening to Righteous Convictions with Jason Flam. I'd like to
thank our production team, Connor Hall, Annie Chelsea, Jeff Clever
and Lila Robinson and Kevin Wardis. The music in this
production was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph.
Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter at Lava for Good.
You can also follow me on both TikTok and Instagram
(38:32):
at it's Jason Flom. Righteous Convictions with Jason Plomb is
a production of Lava for Good podcast and association with
Signal Company Number one h
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Cardiac Cowboys
The heart was always off-limits to surgeons. Cutting into it spelled instant death for the patient. That is, until a ragtag group of doctors scattered across the Midwest and Texas decided to throw out the rule book. Working in makeshift laboratories and home garages, using medical devices made from scavenged machine parts and beer tubes, these men and women invented the field of open heart surgery. Odds are, someone you know is alive because of them. So why has history left them behind? Presented by Chris Pine, CARDIAC COWBOYS tells the gripping true story behind the birth of heart surgery, and the young, Greatest Generation doctors who made it happen. For years, they competed and feuded, racing to be the first, the best, and the most prolific. Some appeared on the cover of Time Magazine, operated on kings and advised presidents. Others ended up disgraced, penniless, and convicted of felonies. Together, they ignited a revolution in medicine, and changed the world.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.