Blink Beef: Mark Hoppus vs. Tom DeLonge

As co-founders of blink-182, Mark Hoppus and Tom DeLonge produced some of the most joyous and gleefully immature pop-punk of the ‘90s. But behind the rapid-fire riffs and plentiful dick jokes, creative tensions between the pair escalated. DeLonge’s desire to pursue a wide variety of musical and professional avenues led to lengthy hiatus in the mid ‘00s. A high profile reunion was going fine for a time, until DeLonge was again sidelined by other interests. Blink carried on without him as DeLonge performed intermittently with his new band, Angels & Airwaves, but the man who one sang “Aliens Exist” has devoted most of his energy to the study of UFOs.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Revels as a production of I Heart Radio. Hello everyone,
and welcome to Rivals, the show about music beefs and
feuds and long simmering resentments between musicians. I'm Steve and

(00:20):
I'm Jordan's And you know, it's funny how nostalgia warps
your perception and musical taste on things, because I absolutely
used to despise the band we're about to talk about today.
I thought they were crude and kind of like a
joke band, like the audio equivalent of Jackass or something.
But now I kind of really love them. I have
nothing but warm feelings about them. Yeah, I feel the

(00:40):
same way. Uh. And we're talking about Blink one Nity two,
and this is another episode about a rivalry within a band.
We're gonna be talking about the creative struggles that occurred
between Mark Hoppus and Tom DeLong. It's interesting to me
because I feel like when this band was really big,
you know, roughly from like nine to two thousand three

(01:01):
or so, I couldn't stand them. I thought they were obnoxious,
and I think they had a lot to do with
my age at the time. And we'll get into this
in the episode. I mean music changed a lot from
like say, the early nineties to the late nineties, and
I think Blink really personifies that. But I agree with you.
I have come to really enjoy this bands like classic hits.

(01:22):
I mean, they just seemed like great pop songs to me. Um,
But I think you know the transition that you and
I have taken with this band, I feel like the
same struggles have occurred within the band. It seems like
the core conflict between Mark and Tom was about the
very idea of like how to grow old in this

(01:42):
very childish band. You know, it seemed like that's something
that they couldn't really reconcile, especially Tom Um, and it
just created all sorts of problems just really, I mean
considering that, Like at least how I got to know
the band was what's my age again? It just seems
to be the soundtrack to their whole feud. Yes, Biddle
age men talking about fucking dogs. That's what this band

(02:03):
is basically at this point. But let's talk about how
they got to that point. Let's get into this mess. Well,
our story begins, like so many classic tales of rock legend,
with Tom DeLong getting drunk out of high school basketball game. Ah,
he was in high school and uh, for this offense,

(02:24):
he was expelled from his high school, I guess suspended
for a semester, and so we had to go to
a different high school, where he eventually connected with a
guy whose sister was dating Mark Hoppus, and that's how
he and Mark first met. And I say quick that
this sounds like a Blink Winiti two song already You're
write their origin story could have been written and put
on Enemy of the State. Their whole story sounds like

(02:46):
a PG. Thirteen American graffiti to me. It just seems like,
you know, eating doughnuts on the beach and like running
naked through malls and stuff. You're totally right, But they
they Mark and Tom first became close because they haunted
over the big love of the descendant's band, and they
started jamming in Tom's parents garage with classmate Scott Rainer

(03:06):
on drums, and they wrote some early songs in those days.
I think the song Carousel came out of those sessions.
And these songs were really steeped in sort of the
West Coast punk tradition, which you know, as I said earlier,
Tom would later say East Coast had kind of like
New York was gloomy and dark and cold, and it
makes a different kind of music. But and this is
his quote, now, the California middle class suburbs have nothing

(03:28):
to be that bummed about. Sothern music kind of reflected that. Yeah.
And I just want to do a quick shout out
to our previous episode on Brian Wilson and Mike Love
of the Beach Boys, because in that episode I argued
that Mike Love invented the pop punk voice. And I
think you can draw a pretty direct line from the
early Beach Boys songs to the early Blink Win eighty

(03:50):
two songs, and to me, they have a similar vibe
to them. As you said, it's sort of like a
PG thirteen version of that. But yeah, I just think
of that song, Um, I miss you, that song Please
Say Spiders like Tom DeLong to please. I'm sorry, you know,
just that it's like webs into having like eight syllables

(04:10):
in the word webbs. It's crazy. And like you know,
his voice, I have to say, was really difficult for me.
I think when I first heard this band, and uh,
I think I came around to at least tolerating his voice,
but it is I think the most abrasive part of
this band in a lot of ways, but we'll get

(04:32):
into that later. Oh, it seemed intentional. It seemed like,
who's the little bastard kid from a Christmas story, like
Scott Farcas or something, or you just like taunts the kids.
To me, it sounded like that kid singing. I didn't
know what they looked like when I first heard their music,
and I thought it was just I pictured that redhead
kid who look because the bullies singing all these songs.
So that maybe is why I had a bad impression
of him at first. And just to bring it full circle,

(04:55):
I feel like it's fair to say that Mike Love
is the Scott Farcas of rockn roll. So you know,
I think the farkess comparison is totally apt. Well, I
don't think that sentence has ever been said before. I'm
glad that we just broke the Farkess Mike Love barrier here.
We're making history here. So they called themselves Blink during

(05:16):
this early time and they were practicing and writing. They're
basically a garage band, and they hit a speed bump
early on. Mark Hoppus's girlfriend resented the amount of time
that he was spending with the band and gave him
that you know, time honored ultimatum girlfriends give their their
musician boyfriends, which is me or the music. And Mark
quit for a few weeks, but then he couldn't stay away,
so he ultimately returned to the music. And that's more

(05:37):
important for later. We'll get back to that. So the
band started booking shows at like elks, lodges and y
m c A centers, And the way they got around
this was Tom would call and say like, oh yeah,
we're we're this like motivational band with like a really
strong anti drug message, and so they would like get
to play like high school cafeterias and stuff like that,
and of course then they would play future Blank songs

(05:59):
and teachers are probably horrifive. Uh. They made some demos
before signing your local punk label Cargo Records, and they
released their debut album, cheshire Cat. The problem was they
were still called Blink then, and cheshire Cat did well
enough to attract the attention of another band called Blank
and Irish band, so they had to change their name
and they just picked one two at random and just
kind of attack on the end there. So they're now

(06:20):
officially Blink Win eighty two, and they're starting to really
gather a full steam of buzz by the time they
get on the Warp Tour in and I feel like
the Warp Tour to me, it's such a quintessentially nineties festival.
I mean, I know it continued on after that and
it was a big deal in the odds as well.
But did you ever go to the Warp Tour? No?

(06:41):
I never did. I mean I just think of blinkin
e two as like a defining band of that tour,
just this sort of yeah, like they're pop punk band. Yeah,
they're singing about things that are very interesting to people
between the ages of say like eleven and say event teen. Um,
you know a lot of like dick jokes and uh,

(07:05):
you know, kids wearing band shoes and all that kind
of stuff, And it really catapulted a lot of bands
to start them and I think Blink winned two is
one of the great early examples of that. Uh, they
really become a big band. And this is when I
first heard about them, with their album Dude Ranch In,
which has a breakout song called damn It, which I

(07:27):
think is still like one of the best Blink winn
Ey two songs that that's one of my favorites. Where
does that fit in the Blink winned two canon for you?
I think that's probably my company Jesus moment from Blink
Win eighty two was when I was in a band
in high school. I was like fifteen and two thousand two,
two thousand three, and we, of course none of us
had any talent, so we didn't write anything, but so
we played Blink Win eighty two songs and Damn It

(07:48):
was the one that got the biggest audience response. So yeah,
that's kind of when I started developing a real soft
spot form. The other thing about damn It two is
that that's a song I associate with American Pie. That's
another thing. It's like it's like the double shot of
Warped Tour and American Pie. I feel like it was
huge for Blink Win eighty two and Damn It is
like a connective thread maybe between those two things. Um.

(08:10):
I feel like the late nineties were just a time
for like gratuitous nudity for comedic purposes. You've got the
You've Got What's My Age Again? Video, You've got American Pie,
You've got jackass. Like I feel like my main memory
of the late nineties was people laughing at naked people
on TV. Yeah, it's like naked white guys showing their
asses for laughs, like that Stones covered Rolling Stone cover

(08:31):
with red hot chili peppers too. I forget No, I'm
thinking of the Woodstock ninety nine show, right with the sacks. Right, No,
that wasn't Yeah that was yeah, that was with the socks. Yeah, yeah,
it really was. The glory d is for that, for
that kind of entertainment. And you know Blink Win eight two,
I mean they really become who they are with the
addition of of Travis Barker on drums. Like their original drummer, uh,

(08:53):
this dude named Scott Rayner. He was kicked out of
the band because he was drinking too much um, which
is also the reason why Steven Anther was kicked out
of Guns and Roses. Like, drummers can't drink a whole
lot because you gotta keep time. I guess that's so
you get the boot you can drink too much. So
but Travis Barker comes in and they become sort of
the classic lineup of Blink E two and they put

(09:14):
out enem of the State, and that just has a
bunch of hit songs. What's My age again? All the
Small Things Adams song that sells like fifteen million records
and like that, Blink Win eighty two is like one
of the biggest rock bands in the world. Um, And
I alluded to this earlier. And I don't know if
this is different for you because you're you're younger than me,

(09:35):
But I think my problem with blinkin e two at
the time, along with the fact that they were like
so big, is that they just seemed like the empenththesis
of like the alternative rock that I loved from the
early nineties. This is like a pretty uh this might
not be a fair comparison to make, but like I

(09:56):
think about the defining power trio of the early nineties
as Nirvana, you know, very serious band, angsty band, a
band that you would you know, the apticle, the voice
of a generation. And then the defining power trio of
the late nineties is Blink Windy two you know who
again are doing dick jokes, They're running around naked with
porn stars in their videos. It just seemed like the

(10:18):
city references, b clity references. It feels like, if you're
going to make a reductive comparison to Spotlight, how maybe
back at the late nineties were that that was something
you would go to. Again, I have over time come
to appreciate Link one eighty two, but that is how
I felt in the moment when they really became this
huge rock band. Uh does that square with how you feel?

(10:41):
Or did you? I mean you were playing Blink Win
eighty two songs with your band at the time, so
did you have a different feeling? And that was that
was a little later when I when Mother State came out.
I was probably ten or eleven, So that was sort
of my first like becoming aware of what was going
on musically around me. And I didn't like it. And
this says more about me than about them, you know.

(11:01):
To me, they just reminded me of those dorks at
like the middle school lunch table who stick carrots up
their nose and just like make walrus sounds. And it
just felt like these kids have been like rewarded with
a record label. It's just you're a kid of a
certain age. You really want respect from your from adults
and elders, or at least I did. And again this
is probably not shocking to know that I was a
real nark at that age and real, you know, sort

(11:23):
of humorless, and you know, you want to be taken seriously,
and you think that adults look down on kids because
we're all dumbasses. And I really wanted to show that
I was responsible and mature and all that kind of stuff,
and I felt bands like Blink one eighty two were
kind of giving the kids a bad name for you know,
just like everything you mentioned, the dick jokes and running
around naked and stuff. So I just thought it kind

(11:44):
of and I'm embarrassed to admit this now because it
shows just how humorless I was at that time. I
was just sort of clutching my pearls about the whole
thing at the time, when I was like eleven or twelve. Yeah,
I think when you look back on them, the humor
and the fact that they don't take themselves seriously ages
very well. Like I think generally with bands, bands that
are very self serious and don't have a sense of humor. Um,

(12:07):
those are the bands that, like you tend to look
back on and laugh at, you know, because there's just
something about people that are pretentious or stuffy it just
kind of it depreciates over time, like the serious melts
away in the in the in the pretentiousness becomes comic,
whereas comedy in a way, maybe it becomes more profound
and rock music in some strange way. Um, what's interesting

(12:30):
I think about the conflict that we're going to see
emerge in this band is that I think that for Tom, specifically,
the image of Blink one eighty two, it seems like
it started to wear on him fairly quickly, and he
tried to figure out ways that he could be more
of a serious person even as Blink win eighty two
became more popular and going back to just being like

(12:55):
a dumbass was much more profitable for him, and he
had to sort of figure out a balance for that
and maybe wasn't able to do that successfully totally. And
that came through for the follow up to enim of
the state take Off Your Pants and Jacket, which Yeah,
I mean, the tension just drips from the title, doesn't it,
Like that's really uh you know. Tom claimed that that

(13:16):
the label sort of rushed the band back into the
studio to make a quick follow up and basically do
the exact same thing again. They were being a label
and they wanted more of the same because it was
a huge success, and Tom later claimed that he wanted
to move the band forward creatively and was bummed out
by the label basically saying like, give this to us, now,
give this to us quickly and do exactly we did before.
And he claimed that that Mark was totally happy to

(13:40):
just do it all again, and he was really loved
to end in the state turned out, and he just
wanted he was completely happy to play the label game,
whereas Tom wanted to change it up, maybe go a
little more mature, broaden the sonic palette a little bit,
and so he he his memories of recording tick if
your Pants and Jacket in two thousand, I think late
two thousand, early two thousand one are not very pause

(14:00):
of And is it fair to say, am I going
on a limb here and in saying that, like Tom
is the Brian Wilson here, that Mark is the Mike Love,
like the formula versus like let's expand I mean, I'm
making like a very limited comparison in that regard, but
I mean, just hearing you talk about that, it's very
Brian Wilson askin away yeah, I mean it seems that way.

(14:24):
I mean they definitely their approach to music because when
they did their their album after that, the self taught
or untitled one I guess is what it is. Uh
they're working title for it was our pet Sounds. I
mean they're kind of doing that tongue in cheek because
they knew it was. You know, that was an impossibly
grandiose thing for a band that was making dick jokes
all the time to then come out with pet Sounds.
But uh, yeah, no, I think it's a it's a

(14:45):
good comparison. And I mean, we're gonna see this really
come to the flour with Tom once he starts doing
his own bands, Like I'm excited to talk about angels
and airwaves like we have to. We'll wait for later
in the episode about that. But like that band who
I actually kind of like band, oh absolutely, but purely
for their ridiculous nous. I mean, that is a totally
silly band, an example of what I was talking about

(15:09):
before in a way of of of someone being really
self serious and trying to be profound and it's not
really landing the way that he maybe would have wanted
it to. It ends up being funnier than when you
just commit to the dick job exactly like a dog.
Isn't that as funny as like some of those Angels
and a Waves albums. Oh My God Love Part one
and Part two. We'll get to that later, but I'm

(15:31):
so excited to talking about that. But on take Off
Your Pants and Jacket? Is it your pants? Are my pats?
Take Off Your Pants and Jacket? Both both would have
been a good title, by the way, Uh the lyrics,
I mean the creative struggle as apparent in the lyrics.
It's definitely a darker record when you actually, like listen
to all the words. I mean. It opens with Anthem
Part two, which is just all about disenchantment and blames

(15:51):
adults for teenage problems, which is, you know, not the
most original topic in the world, but definitely goes against
their whole kind of party band reputation. Staygether for the
Kids is devastating. It's pretty much a verbatim true story
of Tom's parents divorce. Online songs basically a breakup song
story of a lonely guys about getting dumped before prom. Yeah,

(16:13):
it's a surprisingly dark album. I know that. The The
untitled album kind of gets their reputation as the mature
Blink album. But but this one's got some death to
it too. I always thought, Yeah, I mean it is
interesting because I do feel like when I hear from
like the true heads of the Blink Winnity two community
that the untitled record is the one that people talk

(16:33):
about is like the underappreciated master work, you know, like
it's not as famous, it doesn't have as many hits
as the previous you know, three records, but like that's
the one that people really point to as being like, oh,
this is an example of like how Blink Win eighty
two was able to go beyond their early sound, that

(16:53):
they could maybe find a way to grow up within
the confines of of their persona. Um. It's interesting though
that around that same time, you have uh that time
DeLong band box Car Racer come about, which I mean,
am I right to say that that was basically his
attempt to do Blink Win Needy Tube without Mark Hoppus.

(17:16):
You know, there's conflicting stories about how that started. He
says that he had a really bad back problem that
flared up during a Blink tour and he was sideline.
I forget if he had surgery or not. But he
was like he could only like stand up for like
five minutes at a time, and it was on all
sorts of pain killers and to just kind of like
kill time while he was going through this physical anguish.
He just was making was writing acoustic songs, and it

(17:39):
wasn't really a serious musical effort according to him, it
was just something he did sort of the past the time.
And then he started writing all these songs and basically
a concept album about all the stuff that he would
kind of later associate with him, like conspiracy theories, freemasonry,
book of revelations, World War two type stuff. It basically
is a concept album at the end of the world
and uh, which is him, which is very him? Yeah, exactly.

(18:03):
I was gonna say, like, when you've reached the point
in your career where you're making concept albums about the
end of the world, like you have totally crossed the
rubicon into self seriousness, Like you are not in you know,
dude ranch territory anymore. Uh. It is interesting though, listening
to that record because I revisited it, you know, getting
ready for this episode, and like musically it's not that
far removed from what Blink one eighty two was doing,

(18:25):
especially on the untitled record. Um, I mean, I think
it's a little slower, it's a little moodier. It's not
as catchy or as poppy. But it's not like a
radical reinvention of what they're doing. And yet Tom ended
up drafting Travis Barker into that band and they're, you know,

(18:49):
making this record that again sounds a lot like Blink two,
And it seems like that was the beginning of there
being a real split between him and Mark, right. I mean,
because it seems like, you know, again, I could understand
Mark's perspective that it's like, what the hell, dude, like,
you're making Blink win Ay two records without me? What's
to deal with this? For fans of our as Simon

(19:11):
and Garfuncle episode, this was the true Tailor moment. This
was like the betrayal. I mean Tom basically said that
it He didn't mean it too. It was meant to
be this thing he did on his own, and it
kind of snowballed. R c A heard some of the
demos he was doing and liked it and offered to
finance it. Uh, he was gonna hire up drummer and thought,
why don't I just get Travis to do it because
he knows what I want and he's you know, I

(19:31):
guess he wouldn't have to pay for a session drummer. Uh.
So to hear him tell it wasn't an intentional attempt
to snub Mark, but that's basically what it was. I mean, yeah,
exactly reformed Blink Whinny Too without me. Uh And Mark,
to his credit, he sang on one of the tracks
I think was Elevator. He sings backing up on it.
But but Mark apparently went to him and said, look,

(19:53):
I would like to be on this, and Tom said, no,
I don't want this to be a Blink one any
two album. I want this to be something completely separate.
So yeah, that really sowed the seeds for all the
discontent that would follow for the next fifteen years, and
by two thousand four that's when their first hiatus happens.
And the reason for this hiatus is basically the old

(20:14):
canard about creative freedom, you know, like, which has been
the reason for so many bands breaking up over the years.
And although I think in this case it's not really
a canard, I mean, I think it was obviously something
that was that was really coming to the four. And again,
I mean, is it being oversimplifying to define this split
as like Mark hoppas wanting to maintain the Blink formula

(20:38):
and Tom not really feel comfortable with that and doing
wanting to do other things. Means that reductively because it
seems like pretty straightforward in that regard to me. It
seems the way to me too, I think there might
even be a touch of the Jeff tweety j fur
our and that they've just been together so long to
I mean, since high school and to to keep that
kind of thing together. Also, I'm sure that that there

(20:59):
are elements of just old, little small things that built
up over the last ten fifteen years to uh yeah.
But it definitely seemed to be more of just just
really wanting very different things, which is interesting because their
solo works aren't that different, I have to say, right.
And it's interesting too because like when you look at

(21:19):
like the hiatus announcement that happened, I guess it happened
in A four, But then there was a formal announcement
from their label Geffen in February two five about this
indefinite hiatus isn't it true that, like like Travis Barker
and Markapas, I mean, they claim that they weren't even
aware that was going to happen. I mean, it seemed
like they were under the impression that they were going
to make another Blink two record, and then this announcement

(21:43):
comes down that they're no longer a band, and it
just seems like that's a preview of like what's going
to happen later on with their other reunions. It seems
like those two guys expect to get back together and
then Tom in some way kind of pulls the carpet
out from under them. My feeling, I mean, I absolutely agree,
and it totally is a precursor to what happened, I think,

(22:06):
almost exactly ten years later, when they're about to record
another album after the reunion and Tom kind of backs away.
I get the impression that it's not a malicious act
on Tom's part, but he's just gets He's just a
yes guy, and he says yes to so many things
and he just gets bogged down. And then and we'll
touch more on this later when we talk not only
about Angels Airwaves, but his We've even mentioned UFOs yet,
so I know we got missed whole much. That's another

(22:29):
like podcast series. I mean, I feel like, you know,
we could do a whole episode on that. We could
start a new podcast just talking about Tom's exploration about
her space, which is an incredible offshoot of this all
right hand, we'll be right back with more rivals. Let's

(22:52):
talk about Angels and Airwaves because we were both excited
to talk about this band. This becomes the big Tim
DeLong side project, or I guess it's not even a
side project. It was his post Blink Win eighty two project.
To me, I feel like, you know he you know,
he's in Blink Win eighty two, the defining pop punk
pan of of their of their time, and then he decides,

(23:14):
I'd actually want to form my own version of Muse,
you know, which is what Angels and air Waves is,
isn't it. Yeah, I mean it came. It came in
a really weird time for him because after the hiatus
for Blink Wind two he had what was probably a
nervous breakdown. He spent like three weeks on the spiritual
journey and complete isolation away from his family and everybody,

(23:36):
just contemplating his life and career and feature and music,
And as you said, he wanted to kind of get
away from this low brow prankster image that he had
the Blink Win eighty two and he apparently and I
didn't realize this until researching this episode accompanied John Kerry
on the two thousand and four presidential campaign, which I
would love I mean, if he wrote like a you know,
Hunter S. Thompson's style like campaign novel, I would love

(23:58):
to read that. It's like, how could you uncarry? Have lost?
How could he have lost? Tom had time DeLong right
there red shotgun with them, And he would say later
that like watching these campaigns and these speeches and all
these rallies and stuff, that kind of reinvigorated that that's
what he wanted his band to be, like a movement,
like a revolution, and he wanted his next project to

(24:19):
basically change the world. And I'd like to stop right
now and know that at this point he was basically
eating Viking in like Eminem's this entire period because his
back was really killing him. So he was given a
say like this is very walk hard, the whole thing.
It's very Dewey Cox like in the sixties, hanging out
with the Beatles and you know, wearing like love beats
and stuff like. I just keep thinking of Dewey Cox

(24:43):
as you're talking about this. Well, he gave mean, he
doesn't really help himself with some of the press that
he did for angelin their webs and he he said
he wanted this to be the greatest rock and roll
revolution for this generation. He wanted their debut in two
thousand and five, we don't need the whisper to quote
compete with the greatest records of all time, and it
would usher in an entire new culture of the youth

(25:04):
before conquering the globe with his tours. Um, this did
not come the past. The record was fine. I think
it did the old the tours did okay. But Tom
had an answer for this when when he when asked
why Angels and their Wives didn't usher in a new
youth revolution, he said that it would take about thirty
years to fully take effect, and at the time he'd

(25:25):
only been asked, it's only been one year since the
album had come out. Now, the irony of this to
me is that he was already in a band that
I think again you could say Blanquinity too. I think honestly,
at late nineties early two thousands era, they're defining band
of that time. In a way, you could say he
was already in the band that changed the world. It's

(25:45):
like he was already in a massively successful band. So
the idea that he didn't recognize that and felt that
he had to form this sort of comically grandiose band
that is very on the nose, you know, in terms
of like being like wanting to be a sort of
like a serious revolutionary type group. It just shows again like, yeah,
maybe don't take so much like it in at once,

(26:06):
so it can destroy your mind. I mean, like, let's
see those records. To me, you know, it's like he
decided to, you know, to stop telling dick jokes and
start contemplating like the astro plane and ship. You know,
Like that's what he's doing on those records. Like, and
that's a big jump from dick jokes to like, you know,
contemplating the astral plane and doing like YouTube and Pink
Floyd levels of like you know, tours and stuff. Yeah.

(26:30):
I mean, like I feel like we could probably both
name our some of our favorite song titles from that time.
I mean, I'm a big fan of the Moon atomic
and then you have an ellipses and then it says
fragments and fictions, which is an amazing song title. I'd
like to make a list of my favorite songs that
have ellipses in the title, that would probably be high

(26:50):
on it. I'd have to say yeah, I don't think yeah,
and I think that they're all. I think as soon
as you put ellipses in a song, you are you're
drifting into pretentious area. Although wait, does does hit me
maybe one more time having ellipses in the title right?
Or is that the album title? I can't remember? All right, Well, Brittany,
there's a Brittaney exception, I guess with the Britney clause.

(27:12):
Do you have a favorite of Angels an Airwave song title?
Minds like the Latin one that I'm probably gonna butcher.
It's like a deuce it. I don't know what you
ever saying that right, which makes it so much better
for me, And that actually means fuck a dog and
that language. Um yeah, I mean in a way, I

(27:32):
feel like where Angels and Airwaves eventually goes wrong, like
some on some of their later records, like the dream Walker,
which I think I listened to like once or twice
and then promptly forgot about. But like, he didn't push
it quite far enough in terms of the grandiose nous,
like I think with a band like Muse, there is
a sort of self aware ridiculousness about that band that

(27:55):
I think their detractors don't totally give them credit for,
which makes their records I think pretty entertaining. Angels and
anyways didn't quite go far enough. I kind of wish
he just would have gone over the cliff with silly ridiculousness,
but he ended up at this sort of like half measure,
like you know, second rate killers type sound. It's a

(28:17):
little better than that. That's brutal. Did you ever get
into the the Mark Hoppas Travis Barker side project at
all plus forty four? Yeah, I mean they just seemed
more of just like an attempt to just recreat Link
twenty two, right or is that is that being too harsh? Yeah?
I thought they had like more of like a Synthia
Electro thing going a little bit. But yeah, it sort

(28:40):
of seemed like a revenge band if you will. Like
what was their story? Uh, well, I guess um Mark
was living in London at the time, and so the
plus forty four was the was the code the dial
London and yeah, it almost seemed like box car Racer
in reverse. It was like, well, I guess, uh, Tom's gone,
So Travis, you wanna want to go make some music? Um,

(29:02):
and the albums too. I think they only made one
album two thousand six is When Your Heart Stops Beating
kind of expressed all of the negative emotions around Blinks
demise There's. The main song on it was No It Isn't,
which is uh, it's it's it's a breakup song, and
he gave it that title because he was trying to
kind of curtail questions in the press about whether or

(29:24):
not it was about the breakup of Blink Wynity Too,
so he named it no it Isn't even though it
absolutely is. Um it's kind of yeah it's. Tom apparently
said that the band started before he even quit, and
he sided that as a reason why he went on
hiatus with Blink. He said he found out that they
were doing a side project and didn't invite him and
got really hurt by it, which I thought was really

(29:47):
weird considering he did the exact same thing with box
car racer. But yeah, in any event, plus forty four
nowhere near as crazy as Angels and air Waves and
consequently nowhere near as successful, and of course because of
these eye projects. And again like Angels and Anyways did
pretty well, but not even that bend really even approach
with Blink Wuinnity two was doing. It seemed inevitable that

(30:09):
these guys were gonna try to get back together, which
is what happened starting in about two thousand and eight.
And there were a couple of terrible things that happened
in the Blink two camp. One was the death of
their producer, Jerry Finn, who was the guy that they
made all their huge records with basically back in the
late nineties and early two thousand's, and he died from

(30:30):
a cerebral hemorrhage. I think it was just like a sudden,
out of the blue type tragedy that happened there. And
then the other thing that happened, and this is insane.
I don't know if people remember this, but Travis Barker
was like in a plane crash and was he flying
the plane himself? Was he flying the plane himself? I don't.
I don't know if that was part of it or not,

(30:51):
but I know he was in a plane crash and
four people died and he had third degree burns and
he had to have like a forty eight hour blood transfusion,
and uh, Tom DeLong saw this on television and he
freaked out, understandably started crying, you know, worried about his
his friend and former bandmate. And I love this story.

(31:12):
Apparently he sent him to photos. It was a photo
of the band, and one was a photo of Tom
with his family, and he said, yeah, this is who
we were and this is who I am now. Uh
and yeah, and you know, Travis Barker saw that and
apparently was moved by it. And they end up having
a band meeting, which or they had a couple band meetings.

(31:34):
And I apparently they were described by Mark Hoppus as
two gnarly heart to hearts. That's exactly how I would
expect them to be described by Mark, which I don't
know what the extent of those conversations were. I imagine
it was, Hey, we can make a ship ton of
money if we get back together. Why don't we do it?
You know, I not to be crass, but I feel

(31:57):
like it's literally like out a hospital bed when these
discussions were going. So yeah, maybe okay, maybe it was
like a more tender version of that, but I feel
like that had to be the subtext of these conversations.
And uh, they end up going on tour in two
thousand nine with Weezer and follow up boys. So now
Blink Winned Too was officially back, but of course the

(32:18):
old problems are still in the background and they're about
to come back to the four. They start recording this
reunion album called Neighborhoods, and you could barely call it
a reunion album because it was mostly done through email. Apparently,
like they were so all busy with like outside projects
and family commitments that like Tom stayed in San Diego, uh,

(32:39):
Hoppus and Barker were down in l A. They would
go months without direct communication. They were only speaking through managers,
I think, and I don't think it was necessarily in
a mean way. It's just people were doing other stuff
and this seemed like it really wasn't given a priority,
And they didn't even have a single producer. Every all
three of them have their own like sound guy that
acted as like a producer for those tracks, and they

(32:59):
would just yeah, that's not a good sign. I mean
I feel like that was a mini trend at that time.
Like The Strokes made a record like that too, called Angles,
that came out in two thousand eleven, where I think
like four fits of the band were together, and then
Julian Casablancas was like in some sequestered bunker somewhere sending
emails about the record, and I actually happened to love Angles.

(33:20):
I think that's a really great record. But a lot
of people didn't like that record and it didn't do
terribly well. Um, don't make a record over email. I
I just don't feel like that is usually the best
way for a band to work, unless you're the Postal Service,
like just please be in a room at least for
like half of it, which and there was like, I
mean the concept of your band is that you are

(33:40):
sending music through the mail, then I think it works.
You know at post Service that was their thing. But
you know, if you're a band that is accustomed to
being in the same room together, perhaps it's not the
best way to go. And it just BOMs me out too,
because you know, you have this incredible like after school
special style reunion of like oh my god, this guy
almost died. Let's let's let's put us out all our
princes and be friends again, like it could have been great.

(34:02):
I don't really, It's so sad that this was the
way it went down, with everybody being so isolated making
this album that really didn't hang together, and they I
think Tom later said that just there was constant interference
from there were four separate managers, each one had their
own manager, and then the band manager, pr people, attorneys
and what Tom called bureaucratic diarrhea just made them bad,

(34:23):
just made the vibes even worse. And uh, and of
course then you had all the old musical differences to
where you had Tom still wanting to be a little
more progressive, whereas Travis and Mark thought it was basically
being pretentious and trying to be thought Tom was trying
to turn the band into cold Play, and they wanted
to do stuff like they were known for. So um,
it got really bad when their production delays on the

(34:44):
album and then and Travis wanted to cancel a tour
because he thought, you know, I don't really want to
go out and tour with just the old songs again.
We owe new songs. For the fans. And also he
later described himself in this period as being a bloody
mess literally not not in the English sense, but like
a literal bloody mess. He's barely recovered from this horrific
plane crash that third degree burns over like three quarters

(35:05):
of his body, so he really wasn't in any shape
to be doing all this anyway. So uh so, Yeah,
the vibes are really bad and the lyrics really reflect this.
Just I feel like I think I've read a review
where they said the album Neighborhoods was basically an exorcism,
just was haunted by the specter of death and addiction
and loss. And yeah, it's not what you want from

(35:26):
a Blink record. You don't want an exorcism from a
Blank Winnity two record. I mean again, this is the
American Pie band you want. You want them to be
humping pies musically, you know, none of these dark explorations
of the soul. No, I mean the lead their lead
single is called up all Night, which you think, you know,
up all Night this is gonna be like a great
party anthem, and the chorus is all these demons they

(35:47):
keep me up at night, And you're like oh man,
it's like, yeah, it's like going to your high school
reunion and like the party animal from your high school
classes now in therapy and addicted to oxycotton or something thing,
and it's like, oh, this is this is bleak. And
it seems like things really came to a head to
on on the tour for that record, like the Travis
Barker in his memoir he wrote about how he's he

(36:11):
thought that Tom DeLong like specifically sort of derailed that
tour just by basically being like a greedy guy. Like
in his view, he felt that Tom was only there
for the money and that he didn't really come out
of the shell until he started seeing like how well
tickets were selling, and then he would get excited about
the band and it. And it seems like moving forward

(36:33):
that that really informs like how Hoppis and Barker come
to look at DeLong, That they look at him as
a guy who only regards the band as like a
piggy bank essentially that he can use to like fund
his own projects and to like, you know, go searching
for extraterrestrials in outer space. I mean, isn't that right?

(36:53):
I Mean it seems like that becomes like the real
crux of here. This before I think, like in the nineties,
when it still wasn't totally sure whether or not the
band was really going to be viable, he had all
these other side projects going. He was like, he started
a clothing company I think called Loser Kids, and another
one called Atticus, and they had Macbeth footwear, and he

(37:14):
had a technology and design firm and stuff. So he
had all these side projects going before. So even back
probably during the height of Blink, it almost seemed like
he wasn't totally committed to it. He had all these
other things going just in case, which I mean, you
know rock and roll. You hear all these horror stories
about bands being huge one minute in the next minute
being totally broke. So on my hand, you can't really
blame him, but yeah, he definitely seemed to be in

(37:35):
a weird way. I can't believe I'm saying this about him,
but kind of the more pragmatic and practical from a
financial sense, because he diversified his interests, which frustrated his
bandmates who really wanted to make this good. And yet
he's the one that seems to stop the band. It
doesn't seem like they are like that Hoppison Barker, kicking
him out necessarily. It seems like Tom is the one

(37:57):
who's sort of like dragging his feet and then almost
making them get rid of him. I mean, it isn't
that essentially what happens when they started to work on
another record after Neighborhoods. Oh, it's such a mess. I mean,
it's such a he said, he said, he said situation.
The band wanted to record a new album, but they
didn't have a record deal at the time. I think
that Neighborhoods was actually self released or I forget how

(38:19):
they did it, but they didn't have a major label.
Uh So Tom wanted a deal, so before he'd work
on the record, he made sure that they would get
a deal. They eventually get a deal and work really
hard and get this deal together, and then over Christmas,
the other members of Blanquentnity to get an email from
Tom's manager, not even from Tom, saying Tom is out.
That's the direct quote Tom is out. In their periods

(38:40):
before each of those words. And this is really troublesome
to the band because they put all this work into
getting this this deal about to get in the studio
and they got a festival on the horizon in March.
It's December. Uh so really what followed is probably one
of the most spectacular public dissolutions of a band in
popular music history. It's just like an incredible train wreck

(39:00):
of back and forth, contradictory nonsense. Uh. Starts off with
Mark and Travis in January putting out an announcement that
Tom had left the band indefinitely. They said, we were
all set to play this festival and record a new album,
and Tom kept putting it off without reason. It's pretty
much the same thing that happened ten years earlier. And
so to cover for this festival March, they hired Matt

(39:20):
Scheba from Alkaline Trio, also known as the first act
I ever saw a non Baby Bloomer concert. Uh. Wow,
it's a big milestone for you. Yeah, yeah, that was
a big one. So yeah, so they they put out
this announcement that DeLong is out of the band. But
then DeLong goes on social media and he says that
he never quit the band. And I feel like I
need to read a social media post verbatim. Here he

(39:41):
says to all the fans, I never quit the band.
I actually was on a phone call about Blink Wannity
two for New York City at the time all these
weird press releases started coming in. Apparently those releases were sanctioned.
Quote marks from the band, are we dysfunctional? Yes? But
christ Then he says, hashtag awkward, hashtag baby back ribs.

(40:07):
Then he then he posted a photo of a man
hugging a tiger with the caption me and the band hugging.
Uh lot, me just glossed over a man hugging a tiger. Yeah, exactly.
One of the least crazy things about this whole thing
is as the photos of a man hugging a tiger.
So that prompts Travis and Mark to do an interview
with Rolling Stone where they're like basically just throwing time

(40:28):
out of the bus and they're really airing out all
the frustrations that they have with someone that they really
look at is being a diva. And as we've established,
I mean, there is this history of DeLong derailing whatever
project Blink Winnity two is going to be doing. It
seems like it finally reached a boiling port and uh again,
they kind of go back to this idea that deloon

(40:50):
just looks at Blink Winnity two as like a piggy
bank that he's going to draw money from, but he
doesn't really care about the band, and this has caused
him to act selfishly. And there's this quote where they say,
you know, it's hard to cover for someone who's disrespectful
and ungrateful. Why Blink even got back together in the
first place is questionable, and then Happa says, it feels
humiliating to be in the band where you have to

(41:11):
be apologizing for one person all the time. That's how
it has felt for a long time. Uh So they're
clearly trying to make it clear to people, to their
fan base, like why they had to get rid of
this guy. Tom doesn't like that. Tom, as you might imagine,
he doesn't like that. He goes on Facebook and he

(41:32):
writes an extremely long response to this interview and he
says that he was the one who really wanted to
get back into the studio and the other guys were
dragging their feet, and that their new label contract was
this like massive sixty page deal that had all these
stipulations where the album had to be done in six months,
which he said just wasn't possible. And it prohibited him
from working on other projects that he was contracted to do,

(41:53):
which at this point where he claims co writing fifteen novels.
Fifteen novels, all of them I believe have accompanying soundtrack EPs.
So that's fifteen EPs, four albums, this is, this is
for the year, plus two Angels in Airway and two
solo albums, three of which of these solo albums would

(42:15):
have a companion novel. Uh so yeah, he's like, sorry,
I couldn't do this thing in the next six months
because I'm writing thirty novels and recording ten other albums
in the next calendar year. Like, dude, come on, I mean,
if you could have, like if you if you had
just read that Rolling Stone interview, you could have thought, well,

(42:36):
maybe they're not giving Tom his fair shake here, Like
maybe they're just being a little bitter here, and you know,
we're just hearing their side of the story, so we
could take their words with a grain of salt. But
then he writes that Facebook post and it's like, oh, yeah,
he is insane. He's totally insane, Like he has just
admitted that I'm a lunatic with this Facebook post. So
I think that made it clear to a lot of

(42:57):
people that yeah, maybe these guys are justified in hiring
a different you know, a different guy to be in
the band so we could so they could make another record. Well.
The best part is Mark apparently said that Tom when
they did get back in touch, which was rare, Mark
was like, yeah, why did you have your managers say
you quit? And Tom said I didn't even tell him

(43:17):
to do that. It's so weird. Just dude, just just
say you don't want to be in the band. It's
okay if you want to do all this other stuff. Fine,
I don't. I don't have to agree with it, but fine,
but just don't just be like the old kid has
got cookie crumbs all over his face being like I
didn't I didn't eat the cookie. Yeah. It just reminds
me of that, uh that that sketch from I think
you should leave, Like where the hot dog guy like

(43:38):
crashed this car. Crash the hot dog car to the
thing and he's like, who crashed the hot dog car?
It's like, dude, you're wearing the shattering everywhere time to long.
You're wearing a hot dog suit. Dude, al right, like
everyone can see it. Um so Blink Too. They put
out a record with Met skib Up in two sixteen.
It's called California, and it's their first number one record

(43:59):
since Take Off Your Pants and Jacket. And I feel
like the reception to that record was like fairly positive.
I don't think it was over the moon, but I
feel like that record coincided with the revisionism about Blink
Winnity two, especially among music critics, like really taking hold.
Like I think by then the generation of of of

(44:20):
music writers who had grown up listening to Blink two,
you know, they were not old enough to be writing
for like big music magazines. And I think some of
the knee jerk uh dismissals of Blink Winnity Too that
occurred like when they were first popular, you know, those
were put to the side and and I think there
were people willing to take them more seriously. And a

(44:41):
New York Times profile around that time, right, New York
Times profile. Yeah, And I feel like, just like in general,
like in the blog is Sphere, if I could still
use the term blog is Sphere, I'm a person from
two thousand ten right now talking. But anyway, I feel
like there was much more warmth and and uh iteration
given to Blake as music at this time. And I

(45:03):
think it really signaled them essentially becoming a classic rock
act by now, like they had that kind of history
at this point, and like any classic rock act, it
really showed that like they were at a point in
their career like where they could still tour and play
huge venues, even if like their latest records weren't you know,

(45:26):
producing tons of hit songs, Like they had enough of
a legacy now where they could still be really big.
And it showed that even without DeLong being in the band,
that they could do that and and and still be
a pretty big rock band. Yeah. I mean, it's just
so funny how like just if you endure long enough
you can reach this point of revisionism. It's it's definitely fascinating.

(45:48):
But I saw more written about the band than about
the actual music on that album though, Like I think
I listened to any once when it came out, and
I don't remember anything about it. Yeah, I think that
album was like a peg for think pieces about the band.
People could you know, could talk about like how they
love Blink Winnity too a long time ago. Um. But meanwhile,
while all this is happening, and Blink Winnity two was

(46:09):
continuing to be successful. Tom is out there and this
is an incredible thing. And I'm saying this somewhat facetiously,
but it also seems like it's true that he's like
proving the existence of UFOs. Oh yeah. I interviewed him
last year about this and it was probably one of
the most unforgettable interviews of my life. He is just

(46:30):
it's he totally has I'm so all for everything that
he's doing. You know, I just think it's it's such
a I mean, he's definitely out there, but he's assembled
this incredible group of uh, really well established names from
the intelligence community, former members of the Lockheed Martin Skunkworks
experimental aircraft program. He's got a really fascinating team, and

(46:52):
you know, people have been laughing at him. I mean
he's I think he was a nine eleven truther and
he would on pour buses for Blink Blink tours. He
would like stare out the window and look for UFOs
and organized search parties to try to find big Foot
and stuff. Like he's been there. He's been at this
for a while, and you know, the whole Aliens exist
song like you attempted to write it off as a joke,
but the work that he does is really fascinating. His

(47:13):
he's founded a UM, I don't even know what you
call it, an academy of arts and sciences called to
the Stars and UM and they are I'm still confused
about what it is. Uh. It's basically a research organization.
And they published UM videos from taken from Air Force cameras,

(47:34):
cameras that are mouthed on the front of fighter jets,
and the most famous one was from the two thousand
four USS Nimitz incident, which is off the coast of California,
when a series of fighter pilots recorded on camera and
saw visually these strange it look like a big floating
white tic tac that moved it really erratic ways that
just defy the laws of physics, and there's documented evidence

(47:57):
of it in the air on radar. I believe it's
his whole story. Uh. And he released these videos that
people thought, well, that's weird, is it real? And then
I think just in May, the Air Force or the government,
some very major agency confirmed that it was in fact
legit video and that they are UFOs, and he the

(48:17):
government had a program as a black budget program called
a tip UM, which was to study aerial threats that
were of unknown origin, and uh, the hired his name
was Luis Alazando to work with him on on studying
these programs, on studying sending these aircraft that no one

(48:38):
knows what they are. They're documented, but they're they're literally UFOs.
They're not saying going as far as saying that they're aliens,
but yeah, the government doesn't know what they are. And
I just want to say that, like this just shows
like how insane our world is right now. That like
the fact that a member of Blanquinity two has helped
to confirm the existence of UFOs is like not that
big of a deal. Like people, there's like so much

(48:58):
other craziness of the world right now where people are like, oh,
oh the guy who ran naked in the what's my
Agian Game? Video? Like, oh, he discovered UFOs. Oh great, okay, great, Yeah,
what's the next thing? You know, Like we're just so
we're so uh, you know, desensitized to incredible things happening
that that's not that big of a deal. I know
for me, Like the thing that I know most about

(49:19):
his organization is that they were in debt supposedly for
thirty seven million dollars, which is like an incredible thing.
I don't know it was that actually true. I mean,
I know that DeLong like the denies that she denied
that it was like straight up debt and said I
think this quote was it's attributed attributable to stock based
compensation expense, whatever that means. He basically said it wasn't.

(49:40):
There wasn't an operating debt. It was that I guess
he gave UM staff members like stock options in the organization,
and that's what that debt was. I don't know, but yeah,
it sounds like they had a really great History Channel
mini series last year that kind of explored the whole
U S. S mimics incident and had these high ranking
military because there's come on camera. You know, they weren't obscure,

(50:02):
and they had their real names and everything talk about
what they saw, and they had all the footage and
and in this time to the New York Times and
a few other I think the Washington Post had all
these expose as on this the secret government project to
study UFOs that has been you know, declassified. So yeah,
it's really strange. But I talked to him about this
whole project, A part of me wanted to be like, yeah,

(50:23):
you know, the biggest liability to this whole project is
kind of you. Like you for us CIA members and
stuff like this would seem much more believable and legit
if it wasn't you as the face of it. We're
gonna take a quick break and get a word from
our sponsor before we get to more rivals. Well, like

(50:52):
I said, I feel like we could do a whole
series just on Tom Delong's explorations in the Great White Beyond.
But like, let's get to the part of our episode
where we make pro cases for each side of the rivalry.
Let's start with Mark Hoppiss. I feel like Hoppas he's
the obvious one to side with, maybe like in this conflict.

(51:13):
You know, he's the same one. He's the one that's
like kept the group together. Uh, he's like far less
erratic than Tom. It seems like Tom is a very
difficult guy to put up with. I guess the way,
we should also be grouping Travis Barker in here too.
Travis Barker is like a weird, sort of like Switzerland
in this conflict. It seems like he goes to both guys,
and you know, it seems like he's a pretty laid

(51:35):
back dude. Um. But I mean when Mark said in
that interview with Rolling Stone that, like, you know, it's
hard to be the one who constantly has to apologize
for someone in this band, I mean, I I I
think that's a legitimate gripe, and I understand where he's
coming from with that. So I think just I'm pure,
like sort of sanity grounds like that is the case

(51:58):
to make for Mark, What do you inc I also
feel like, you know, if if Tom's claims that he's
going to release fifteen EPs and four albums or whatever
in one year, or any indication he's a hard guy,
that's he has a hard time focusing on one thing.
So I'd probably credit Mark and Travis too for being
responsible for Blink being as prolific as they were at
the time. Too. I feel like he gave some structure

(52:20):
and and and and put some blinders on Tom in
a way that Tom probably resented and felt like it
limited him, but it probably made it so that they
could actually produce the things that he was talking about.
Otherwise would just be you know, I just see him
like kind of in a studio with one of those
old synthesizers with all the patch cords, just trying to
figure out how I got one sound for six months
of the time, like do wey Cox style exactly Well,

(52:42):
Whereas I think on the flip side, if you're gonna
talk about the pro side with DeLong, is that he
is the one who probably made those records more interesting
than they would have been otherwise. Like, there were lots
of pop punk bands of that time, and we forgot
about most of them. But I think one of the
reasons that we remember blinkin E two along with all
of their great pop hits that they had was that

(53:05):
they did, I think, managed to progress beyond their initial
formula and still be Blink Wuinnity two, but be maybe
a more interesting version of Blink Winity two as they
got a little bit older. And I feel like that's
probably mostly attributable to Tom. I think ultimately with Tom,
like all the negatives that exists with him are also

(53:28):
his positives in a way, like his difficulty and like
just his uh, you know, this sort of self destructive
urge to constantly push beyond what they were successful at um.
I don't know. I mean I feel like in retrospect,
I mean it looks pretty good, you know, as maddening
as it must have been to deal with it on

(53:50):
a one to one level. Yeah, that's the same reason
that I love Billy Corgan, even though I know he
can be infuriating. It's you know, Tom. Maybe he's manic,
he he's brilliant. Maybe he's just easily bored. I'm not
going to speculate, but like we always have that one
friend who just kind of over commits, and we'll look
you dead in the eye and say yes, I will
be there, I will be at your party, I will

(54:11):
be at your show, and they know that they're not
going to make it, they just just wholly over commit.
And I feel like that's Tom. He just says this
like hyperkinetic personality that keeps him bouncing around from subject
to subject to project to project, and that brings a
whole lot of great, interesting, weird energy to Blink one
eighty two, but also is infuriating and it's really hard,
like capturing lightning bugs, it's just like you can't actually

(54:32):
get them there. And I feel like that's what Mark did.
But by harnessing that, but a lot of the the energy,
like you said, that made it different and more unique
and separated it from a lot of the other pop
punk bands of the era. Or it should be a
little tom and Yeah, And I mean I just love
anyone that's like, yeah, I'm I don't care how insane
I look and how crazy I look. I really believe
in this thing and I'm going to commit to it
with all my heart and be a super passionate. It's

(54:54):
like it's like a little kid with dinosaurs or something.
You know. It's like, yeah, like you love your thing
and go go for it. Man. I just yeah, I
I all respect all of the UFO stuff that he does.
I think it's really fascinating. I think he's done good
work with that. Um. I know it's probably infuriating the
fans of Blink one eighty two, but I I'm really
fascinated by him. I think ultimately, like when we talk

(55:15):
about these two guys being together, even though even though
Blink Winnity two has been able to put out records
and into tour without DeLong, I don't think there's any
question that like the brand is worth more with him
in the band than him being out of the band,
and uh, you know, I just go back to that
thing we talked about at the beginning of the episode,

(55:36):
this tension between what blink when two is identity is,
especially in their glory years, and what people want from
them when they go see this band now, you know,
they want to hear the hits and they want to
sort of re experience a version of that band that
they live when they were kids. Just at tention that
creates when you're no longer in your twenties, that you're

(55:57):
now a middle aged man and you have to sing
the songs. I mean, it does remind me a lot,
like I said before, of the Beach Boys. You know,
I think there's a similar tension with with that group,
where you know, you have these classic rock bands, and
again I think link Winnity two is now a classic
rock band built on a foundation of sort of youthful

(56:17):
fun and frivolity and you know, just being young and
stupid and then having to convey that when you get
older and just the burden of that, but also the
probability of that because I think again, like this is
gonna be a band that I bet Blinky two will
be one of those bands that can tour on their
back catalog for a really long time. I really think

(56:39):
that they had that kind of impact on people who
were young when those records were big, And I think
it's interesting that, like, I mean, I feel like neither
one of those guys totally counts out the possibility of reunion, right,
I mean, it seems like they both kind of leave
the door open. Oh yeah, Mark, I think said in
the interview recently it was like, yeah, never saying never.

(57:00):
I think they both have said that. I mean Tom
is usually saying I'm busy with all this other stuff,
but I love those guys, but Mark has been a
bit more forward about like, yeah, sure I do it.
And I it's just so weird because I grew up
listening to classic rock stuff primarily and didn't really engage
with the radio too much, and so music that I
loved as a kid always nostalgi just seemed to go

(57:22):
hand in hand with music because that was the stuff
I love. I listened to Simon and Garfunkle when I
was ten, eleven, twelve, and so it's strange now that
this music that I felt no real emotion towards when
it came out, Uh is now imbued with all of
this nostalgia. And I think of, you know, like you
said that blank when you two is now going to
be like almost like a boomer touring act in a
funny way. And I think of my dad always sings

(57:44):
the Neil Young song Sugar Mountain. For him, that's like
his his his boomers getting older song of choice, and
he always changes the line, you can't be twenty on
Sugar Mountain to whatever, to whatever decade he's staring down.
Now he's at you know, you can't be seventy on
Sugar Mountain. And I'm just looking forward to like aging
millennial singing no one likes you when you're fifty three.
It'll happen sooner than you think. That's what I'm told.

(58:06):
I think that's true for everybody. Well, uh, you know,
hopefully Mark and Tom can find a way to stay
together for the kids. There you go. I was waiting
for that. This entire episode was a giant setup for
a stay together for the kids joke. And on that note,
I think it's time for us to send off. So
thank you everybody for listening to this episode of Rivals.

(58:28):
We'll be back with more Beefs and Feuds next Week.
Rivals is a production of I Heart Radio. The executive
producers are Shawn ty Toone and Noel Brown. The supervising
producers are Taylor t. Cooin and Tristan McNeil. I'm Jordan's
run Talk. I'm Stephen Hyden. If you like what you heard,

(58:50):
please subscribe to leave us a review. For more podcast
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