November 21, 2025 • 39 mins
Sal Stewart was named the Reds’ top prospect by Baseball America, how did he jump to the top of the team’s list. WE go to the source, Baseball American executive editor JJ Cooper joins Riverfront Territory with C. Trent Rosecrans and Danny Graves to discuss Stewart, the rest of the Reds’ top 10 list, the Reds’ system as a whole and the No. 5 prospect for the Cleveland Indians in 1995, among other topics.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hey, I am c Trent Rosecrans. I am a senior
writer for the Athletic and he is the number five
prospect for the Cleveland Indians in nineteen ninety five. Mister
Danny Graves the Cincinnati Reads Whole Time saves leader and together,
like the Wonder Twins were the Riverfront Territory. Here on
(00:27):
the Foul Territory Network. First we're going to get to
news and then we will get our great guest, J J. Cooper.
You know, the news isn't real news. It's just kind
of like reiterating some of the overreactions that have gone
on the Hunter Green stuff. I think you and I
talked about like white just didn't make much sense. And
(00:47):
that's kind of what Nick Kral said to like, hey,
it doesn't really make much sense. And yeah, so there's
that one, and then the Ellie de la Cruz. You know,
it was playing with a strain, and then of course
you see the the blowback like how could they let
him play with a strain? Hey, Danny did h No,
I'm sorry, I'm sorry. He called it not a strain,
(01:09):
he said a partial tear, which is what a strain is.
And Danny, Yeah, so like you how many days did
you play without a strain? Probably like three?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Yeah, So again, I've played a lot with the partially
torn laborum, and like that was never like nobody ever
cared because everybody probably had a partially torn laborum that
pitched right.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Mm hmm oh. I got one the MRIs to prove
it so too, and and I was not throwing it
like you were. So with that, we can go someone
who did can't can't go like actually really old deep
with both of us when he went digging into the
(01:59):
the Prospect Handbook with Russell Branyan right there next to you,
number six. And I don't know that if does, I
mean JJ might go back to Russell Branyan in making
Georgia as a high schooler. So with that, we're going
to bring in executive editor of Baseball America JJ Cooper,
(02:20):
who was also a d g D. It's a damn
good dog one of us.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
I am older than Trent, and I was telling Danny
earlier like I remember a fresh faced, you know, starry
eyed Trent Nero Rosecrants, you know, freshman who was you know,
already driven and wanted to be the best. I will
say that, you know that was Yeah you really were
you really it stood out, it did. But yeah, I
did see Russ Brandian in high school and I did
(02:49):
cover him also. He was amazing in Columbus, you know,
amazing home runs and at the same time kind of
amazing strikeouts at the same time.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
When when do you remember first hearing of one young
Danny Graves? Probably when he was at Miami.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Right, Oh yeah, oh yeah, you know, And like we said,
I was fun going back to looking and through that.
It's like I've forgotten about the knee injury, you know
that that is something When I was found that, I
was like, oh yeah, I forgot about that. So you
you were good, not just strains, but you were playing
through all kinds of ailments from even before you became
a pro.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
That's what happens when you're an athlete, right, I think
you just have to deal with those strains or whatever
they want to call them these days. But but JJ,
when you sent that email with the clippings of the
old prospect rankings, I was just telling Trent. We talked
about this the other day. I was so close to
asking him did they even have top prospects back then?
(03:41):
Because I don't remember any of that stuff. And then
I see this in the email, and pretty impressive. You
kind of made my day.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Man, I'm glad to make your day.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
But yeah, so how we'll give Alan Simpson as the
founder of Baseball America. He deserves all kinds of credit
for this. I would love to see him in the
Hall of Fame one day, because he really did. I'm
not saying that there was no prospect covers before that,
but when Alan was crazy enough to decide that he
was going to found Baseball America magazine in his garage
in nineteen eighty one, and by the way, he was
(04:12):
an accountant before that. I don't know why he thought
that he would be able to do this by himself,
but he was crazy enough to do it. And nineteen
eighty three is the first team top ten prospect list.
And I have never been able to find an example.
I'm not saying that you couldn't find in the back
of the street in Smith's, like here are some names
to know, or things like that, but no one, I
(04:34):
don't believe, had ever systematically said, hey, we're going to
look at every major league organization and tell you who
the best players are. And the great thing about that
in the eighties was the farm directors, the managers, the scouts.
Everyone was like someone's paying attention to us. So the
information that Allan was able to get was truly remarkable.
(04:57):
Like you look back in those old issues like the
ninth teen eighty three draft, he had to produce that,
like weeks before the draft, He's like, here's gonna be
the number one pick. This is gonna be the number two,
this is gonna be the number three, this is gonna
be number four, all the way through because it's like
everyone's like, this is someone's actually paying attention to this.
Because you know, even when you were pitching in the minors.
(05:18):
And again, I was covering minor league baseball in the
mid nineties, and it was something where if if you
weren't there at the game, you might find out about
it a month or two months later. In Baseball America,
but that was about it. Like, you know, you could
have the craziest thing happened at a minor league game
and no one would ever notice. It was that you
(05:39):
were operating in this other world kind of until you
made the majors.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
It felt like I feel like, well I can tell
you though I can tell you. In those minor league
days in the mid nineties, we would look forward to
when Baseball America would be coming to the clubhouse because
we would want to see what already happened and what
was written about what had happened that nobody else was
talking about. So it's it's so impressive that Alan did that,
(06:06):
and without the resources that are out there today. Amazing.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
I remember going to Barnett's newsstand in Athens, Georgia, place
that JJ knows very well, and buying in nineteen ninety
four the Baseball America to get the draft results because
I knew guy grew up playing with was probably going
to get drafted. He had signed with Miami. Jimmy Anderson
(06:32):
then was your former teammate in Cincinnati. So yeah, and ninety.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Four was my draft year. So if you still have it,
let's check it out.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
I don't still have it, Danny. It went back to
Russell Hall full archives at my house.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
That's why I was able to find that so easily.
I have every issue of Baseball America going back to
nineteen eighty one sitting.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Oh my gosh, that's amazing. All right, Well, with that,
we're going to take a real quick break for our
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F o U l uf o w l AnyWho with that.
JJ has been doing the Reds list for a long
long time. You want to name an obscure Red's minor leaguer,
I know just the guy for you, and that is
JJ Cooper. I mean, I'm guessing there are people that
(08:56):
drafted these guys who don't remember them that JJ does,
so you know, he seemed quite a bit. Who was
what was the first year you did the Reds?
Speaker 3 (09:05):
The first year I did him, I believe was three.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
It was.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
It was a rough list, to be honest, Like I mean,
it was fun to watch because I did him all
through the two thousands from then on. And that first
list got to number six, and I was running up
Miguel Perez, the Catcher, and it was like the write
up of him was this guy might be a backup
catcher And that was number six on the list, and
then by the end of the decade, I was writing
(09:32):
up like Todd Frazier at number six and saying, this
is a big league, everyday third baseman. But he's number
six on this list because ahead of him is Johnny
Quato and Joey Vado and Jay Bruce and you know
guys like that where it's like, yeah, you could watch
that team just develop into the team that ended up.
(09:55):
I know that it ended up not having as much
success as Reds fans wanted, but a team that was
a consist didn't winner a playoff team, and really I
look back on it and go like, I had a
great little stretch there.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
It just was shorter and.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Less playoff success than obviously team, you know, than everyone
would want it.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Well, here's the latest one. We'll put this up and
that was the wrong one that I hit. There we go,
we're learning, so you're we'll just run through it right here,
because you know Audio is part of this too. South
Stewart one top prospect in the Red organization Alfredo Duno,
who could profile to be better than a backup catcher.
(10:34):
RT Louder, the right hander number three after missing all
last year, still hadn't qualified, but you know, has a
couple of wins in the in the Big League. So
that's good. Shortstop Tyson Lewis, shortstop Steel Hall, right hander
Chase Petty, shortstop Edwin Arroyo, first basement DH. Let's be honest,
Cam Collier, outfielder Hector Rodriguez, and right hander Starlin Torres.
(10:57):
So let's just stop. Let's just go to the and
let's start with sal You know what, how did your
mind change about south Stewart through this season going from
last year at this time when you're talking to people today.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
It's funny. It's not what he did in September. It's
not the fact that he batted clean up for the
Reds in the playoffs in October, which, hey, those are
all very important things, very impressive things. But what I
would say, the key thing is is if you go
back to last May, before that, south Stewart had always
been this guy who could really hit. But whenever you
(11:36):
talk to Scalts about him, whenever you talk to coaches, evaluators,
fron ostipicials like but what he hasn't really shown yet
is that ability to turn like, Okay, he's in an
advantageous count, he gets a pitch he's looking for. He
was really just comfortable kind of flicking that ball off,
of which, hey, it's a great way to start. I
would much rather see a hitter who's capable of doing that,
(11:57):
who's comfortable using the whole field, did some one who
at eighteen is just sitting there going, okay, I'm looking
for a fastball in that I can yank over the fence.
Because the guy who can hit can learn power much
more than a guy who doesn't know how to hit
who has power.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Can learn how to hit.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
But you get to about May, and all of a sudden,
you started seeing homers, and not just homers, but you
started seeing home runs to left field. And in like
a six week stretch he hit more homers to left
field than he had hit and in the entirety of
his pro career to that point. That's not long after
that he got promoted to double A. But we're seeing
(12:33):
the power now in a way that we did not
see before this year.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
You know, it's almost like in when you put it
this way like you did, it's almost like you went
from a guy who was Jesse Winker to Joey Vodder.
Now not saying they're that level he had, just Joey
Vodder is a Hall of Famer, Justin Winkers, an All Star,
but like Jesse, was a guy who was always going
to flip it over to the other side. And when Joey,
especially when it came up early. The thing about Joey
(12:58):
was that that oppo field power where he would could
wait and make you still pay by driving it to
the to left field.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
He has and again this is south Stewart has an
all field approach. But now I think that it is
a key thing. He's unlocked here to where hey, but
if you try to bust him in, because again he's
always been comfortable if you go away, away away. There
are a lot of singles, doubles and some homers for
him out there. But before if you came in, it
was actually a little bit more difficult for him. Now
(13:34):
if you come in, he can punish you. The great
thing about that for south Stewart is is now that
he can do that, it leads to pictures going away
from him more, which is something that he's always been
very comfortable handling. So I think that when it comes
to south Stewart as a hitter, I look at this
Red's lineup, I look at what the Reds kind of
where they were last year. I think he's going to
be very important for them in twenty twenty six because
(13:57):
we've seen it, Like when Christian and Carnasium's brand came up.
This was a guy who writing about him, writing up him,
you know, but also writing about him during the season.
It was like, look, the power's real. He's always hit
for average, but let's just acknowledge it's come from that.
If a pitch is over his head it feels bouncing,
you know, is a Vladimir Guerrero junior a senior approach.
(14:20):
There's a lat senior approach without lad Senior. Is the
only guy I've ever seen who's like, you could, you know,
throw it like a cricket ball and he would like, okay,
I just hit a homer off of it. It's come
back to haunt him a little bit. He's gonna have
to get more selected. South Stewart kind of comes in,
I would say, at a very polished It's hard for
me to believe he's not going to be a solid
(14:42):
hitter for Cincinnati in twenty twenty six. He's probably one
of the more take Ellie out of this, because Ellie's
a freak of all freaks. He's one of the more
ready and kind of well rounded, realized hitters that the
Reds have produced in quite a while.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
I would say, what is his position at the big
league level? Like set and Stonech, I mean it says
he's first base, third base, He can play second base.
Do you see him as just a first baseman or
slash DH.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Well, I would okay. I wrote about this recently over
at Baseball America that if if he's gonna play third
long term, he's gonna have to add like two to
three grades of arm strength. He had the When I
say that he had the worst arm of any third
basement in the major leagues, he was two levels below.
What I would say is is kind of the low
(15:30):
level arms, like the worst arms for other guys. South
Stewart in Triple A and the major leagues never threw
a ball harder than eighty two miles, And like I
think it's like eighty two miles an hour across the diamond.
The average third baseman's average throw is eighty six. So
and we saw that, like again there was it's one play,
but like there was that Miguel Rojas play in the
(15:52):
playoffs where he goes to his backhand, and it's not
an easy play. That's not a play that most guys
make every time, but that is the play where you're
good third baseman. They love that play. They get there
and then it's like, I'm going to show you that
I have an absolute cannon here and they throw them
out by two steps. Sal can't get the ball on
(16:13):
a line from there to first base. I think when
you have Cabrian Hayes who just wins good, I mean,
got to work on his hitting obviously, But if you
have Cabrian Hayes, who is a gold Glove and every
year is a gold Glove third baseman, I'm not saying
that you won't ever put him out there for a
day or two, but it seems illogical to me that
you're going to say, hey, Cabrian, you're not playing. Especially
(16:34):
there should never really be a day other if Cabrian
Hayes is mobile enough to play in the field, where
you say they're both going to be in the lineup
and Sal you're going to be at third and Cabrian
you're going to be playing somewhere else or behing or whatever,
because again he's just not that's not his thing. It's
not you want him and they need a first basement.
The other thing about this is like there's a clear
(16:55):
opportunity here, not that they don't have other guys who
can play first base, but I would say that's probably
his primary position going for it.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Yeah, you know, here's the guy that you have a
little lower. I think if if you had the Reds,
you know, if we had Nick Crawl or you know,
any of the guys from the Reds in here on this, Uh,
they might have Hector Rodriguez a little bit higher. What
what kind of players Hector Rodriguez. They're they're really really
(17:22):
high on Hector Rodriguez.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Really hit, and he's a guy who obviously was picked
up a few years ago in the Mets trade Tyler
Naquin at the deadline, and he's really just shown he's
again when we talk about aggressiveness, he also is one
of the he used to be when he was an
a ball, he was the most aggressive hitter in the miners.
Like your normal swing rate is this guy swing it
between forty forty five percent of all pitches they see.
(17:49):
Hector Rodriguez an a ball was swinging it close to
sixty sixty two percent. Sometimes of pitches he saw. It
was like, if you threw it out there, he's gonna hit.
But he has excellent battle ball skills to make that work.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Two.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
As you would want to see, as he's moved up
the ladder, as he's faced more advanced pitchers, they're around
the plate more. But he's also realizing, you know, hitting
that that two to oh slider or that two to
one slider off the plate that's down in a way
might not be the best thing for me. He's laying
(18:22):
off some more pitches. He's still hitting for average. I
think the question with him is is that when I
talk to scouts outside the organization, the reason he's kind
of where he's slotted there is is there is some
question about is this guy going to be an everyday
regular or is it going to be more of kind
of that role player. And a lot of that comes
down to there's some athleticism here, but he's not ever
been a great defender in the outfield. I would say, like,
(18:45):
the great thing about now the things we can that
I can do now that I could not do fifteen
years ago, is is dial up Okay, I'm hoping open
up sw Synergy Sports. I'm going to watch every play
you know that Ector made in the outfield or significant play.
And one thing that really does jump out is is
when you talk about balls over his head. Hector Rodriguez
does not like to go back, especially like when he
(19:06):
hits the warning track. You're if you ever see, you know,
a report that Hector Rodriguez crashed, you know, full speed
into the wall, I would question whether you know, like,
what was that really Hector Rodriguez he does, he slows down,
he's there. If the ball's over his head and he
hits the warning track, he's like, I'm not I'm gonna
not hurt myself here. There are things like that that
he just needs to kind of improve on.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
You know.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
Again, he's a left fielder. Probably you could probably play
him and right if you needed to, but you want
to see him be a little bit better as a
defender out there to go with the bat. That's kind
of where it's a little bit more. And again, I
would say the tough thing about when we do a ranking,
we also do what we call the bing raids, which
I've done this and yes, and so the thing that's
kind of tricky about this is when you're doing ordinal rankings,
(19:50):
it's like one, two, three, four, five, and someone may think, oh, well,
why is this guy six? This guy's two, and it's like, well,
really one's here, two and six is here, And then
like on this list, I would say the top nine
was a clear top nine. At ten, I could have
gone ten different ways, I feel like, because that's where
there's a little bit of another delineation where I felt like,
(20:13):
I mean, Tyson Lewis started on this list at six,
and he just kept moving up as I wrote about him,
as I talked to people about him. You see things
like that, you know, And that's where kind of a
guy like Hector Rodriguez, who's a safer bet, ended up
moving down a little bit, obviously, just out of the
forty man. But I went with a guys who have
a little bit more upside, who are a little further away.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Danny, I know you had a guy that you were
curious about on this one of these ten.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Yeah, yeah, and not questioning the number he is, because
I don't even want to begin to rank any of
these players, but a guy that's intriguing to me, and
we saw a little bit of him this year, Chase Petty.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
What more can we.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Expect from him, because I feel like a couple of
years ago he had in that dominating year in the
minor leagues, and then his numbers are trending the wrong
direction in my opinion, has is there something that he
needs to figure out or what's going on? In your
opinion with him?
Speaker 3 (21:06):
I think he's better than his numbers in twenty five reflected. Obviously,
if he wasn't, we I should not be putting them
in the top ten because let's just be clear, not
just his big league numbers, but his triple A numbers.
We were not good this year. But when you you know,
and y'all saw him, you know, when he was in
the majors, he's never I don't think like we think
back to when he was drafted and it was like, oh,
(21:27):
he throws one hundred and one and all that. That's
really not the pitcher he is. He's more of kind
of that hit your spots, sinker down multiple pitches, you know,
kind of that guy who if it's all working, I
would say that he's going to be a guy who
kind of turns over the lineup a couple of times,
like more of kind of that mid to back of
the rotation starter than that front rine hunter green type flamethrower.
(21:50):
But what we saw this this past year was it's
because of that there's kind of fine margins. And to
his credit, in some ways, his pitches have a lot
of like he has a lot of armside run for one,
and it seemed like a lot of times like that
astro start he had in the big leagues, he was
missing spots and key counts right like, so he'd be
(22:12):
in a you know, a one to one count and
Ketch would set the target and the pitch would leak,
you know, sometimes it would leak into the zone too
much and he catched too much of his zone card hit.
Sometimes it would you know, leak out of the zone
where it's like okay, ball two, ball three. Those those
fine margins that he never saw that when he was
in the lower levels of the miners. You know, he
(22:32):
didn't give up any home runs and he didn't walk
many guys. As you've gone through it, like as you
climb the ladder, those things that worked for you in
the lower miners don't work as well. I would say,
there's a little bit of refinement there, and it's not
again the thing that stands out about it is. It's
not like his stuff really backed up. It's not like, oh,
(22:53):
he doesn't have major league quality pitches, command and control,
especially command, though I'd say was a little bit off,
not because of anything other than you've got to learn
how to harness that movement. Right, it's gonna it could
be really a weapon for him down the road. But
if it's getting you into trouble, you've got to figure out. Okay.
Maybe it's figuring out how to have a little bit
less run, like change your grip just to touch, or
(23:15):
maybe it's learning how to consistently do it where you
feel like, okay, I know that I can run this.
It's going to look like it's in on my hands,
but in the zone, and then it's gonna run off
the zone, you know, for a ball, make it hardly
hard to hit. Those kind of things are I think
still the to do list for him. The good news
for him is I think he goes back into twenty
twenty six barring something unexpected. The Reds have rotation depth
(23:39):
where he can go back to triple A. They don't
need to count on him y, especially if we're at
Louder coming back and say okay, by mid season if
there's an opening, he hopefully's ready. I don't think it's
day one of the season at this point.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Well, and he's only twenty two, so yeah, I mean
that happens.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
He's still young, prep up high school first round pick,
so he's moved. You know, he's moved pretty quick until
this year where it's like, okay, now let's slow it
down a little bit.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
All right, Well, well, we asked for some questions over
on X and Tyler gave us two, so it's going
to give our kind Tyler gave us more than that,
but I picked out two from Tyler, you know, he says,
I was excited to see the Reds take ty Floyd
in the draft a couple of years ago. Obviously, he's
dealt with what's appeared appears to have been a significant injury, though.
(24:25):
Does he still have a shot to be a difference
maker at the big league level someday? And if so,
how quickly do you think?
Speaker 3 (24:31):
Not quick unfortunately, because I did in the top ten
and reporting on that, like the Reds. The funny thing
is is the Reds, I think if their first pick
have really emphasized durability. Chase Burns has really not had
any injury issues, significant injury issues tried going back to
the start of his high school career.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Rhet Louder.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
This injury he had this past year, I believe is
the first time that he's really missed a start, going
back to like when he was like a twelve year old. So,
like they've gone for these guys who have this real durability,
but then they've had this second pitcher pick in recent
years where they've taken some really top performers from the
SEC Ty Floyd, Hunter Holland, you know, guys like that,
(25:16):
and they've had real injury issues with those guys. And
Floyd and Holland are both not expected to be back
on the mound till mid season. Probably competitive, you know,
on the mound, it's been just injury after injury kind
of situations. Where to answer his question, like if we
get to see the Ty Floyd that was there that
(25:37):
we saw at LSU get back into that form as
a pro, yes, one hundred percent, that could be an
impact guy. But the tricky part of that is is
we haven't seen that guy as a pro yet because
he's been I mean we're talking, you know, the Reds
have like three of these guys who have like no innings,
no pro innings almost you don't know if you're going
(25:59):
to see that right, Like we're and we have to
see one can you get back and be healthy? And
then two is this stuff where it was pre injury
right now? I mean, I'm going to rank ty Floyd
in the top thirty when we do the thirty for
the handbook, but he's not going to be very high
on it because the further the when you have one injury, Okay,
it's something where you say pitchers have injuries when it's
(26:20):
multiple years and then it's stretching into a third year.
Not that it's still you can't bounce back, but the
likelihood of bouncing back gets smaller the more years. I
would say that you are still struggling to get back
on the map.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Interesting, Yeah, I mean he was probably always going to
be a bullpen arm anyway, right.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
I mean we see, like I think like there was
a chance like if you came out like again an
ideal world, he comes out, you know, lights it up
and you're like, okay, but I would say, especially also
when you look at this the construction of this team again,
this is the thing that you were talking about before
I came on, Like about Hunter Green. It's like, Okay,
it doesn't make sense to trade Hunter Green because you
have them signed. Like I don't understand other than like
(27:02):
I get the fascination from like New York Media Market
and all something like, hey, who are the best pictures
who are on small market teams?
Speaker 1 (27:09):
We want to trade for them?
Speaker 3 (27:10):
But I don't get it from a standpoint of like
why would the Reds trade the front of the rotation
a's But I will say, like I do think that
the Reds logically could look at moving a picture or
to this office because that's where they have the depth,
Like their rotation depth is enviable right now? By Yeah,
I just don't know that any big market teams that
would envy this.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Yeah yeah, I just don't know that there's anybody who
would give up enough to equal your value of Hunter
Green right now?
Speaker 3 (27:37):
Oh yeah, I wouldn't trade that Green.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
I'm like, if you look at between the other guys.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
Right, do you want to trade a Nicolodolo and Andrew Abbott?
You know a Brady Singer who's kind of you know,
coming into the you know it's really good, but is
in the fight you know, is coming close to free agency.
Those moves where you say, especially I look at this
Reds team and you say right now, like, well, what
is their problem? I'd say it's at least one, if
not two bats away from where you would want to
(28:03):
see it. So like and south Stewart's here, but I
don't think that there's another guy who's knocking on the
door where you say, Hector Rodriguez may be up at
some point in twenty twenty six, but if Hector Rodriguez arrives,
you're not going to say, Okay, this is a guy
who's batting third in our lineup and transforming the lineup.
It's going to be getting a guy like Matt McClain
(28:24):
back to being more what he was of pre injury
than what he was last year. It's but I do
think it's bringing in hoping Noel a Marte has a
breakout year in right field, but it probably is also
bringing in one more outfielder, one more bat where you say, Okay,
this lineup's now with Stewart and this guy two players
deeper than it was last year.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Hoping.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
Obviously, the Elie de la Cruz healthy is is more
first half Ellie de la Cruz than second half things
like that.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Yeah, and then the other one of you wanted to
be basically said, you know, ty Tyler said, you know,
you heard all about Edwin and Royo being a great
defender and big Lee ready defensively, but he then he
read somebody else saying that the exact opposite. You know,
Edwin Arroyo. I think what was most impressive, like how
well he bounced back offensively this year considering the injury
(29:13):
that he had. But defensively, I think he's.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
A solid defender. I mean, I've tried to write up
every year. When I write him up, it's like, this
guy's solid. I don't think he's spectacular. It's funny when
we had our Reds chat, you know, about my top
ten at our site, I had all these people asking me,
why are you not moving Elle de la Cruz off
of shortstop when you project? And I'm like, because I'm
not fixated on trying to move the best player on
(29:38):
the team off of you know, the position for I
would say, like steel Hall. Now steel Hall is on
this top ten. If you told me that his arrival
is around the time that Ellie kind of is aging
into moving off because steel Hall's really good defensively. Maybe
Edwin Arroyo, who's just added the forty, fits as kind
of like the guy to be in Triple A, who
if you have an injury the big league level, this
(30:01):
guy's going to give you solid at bats. There's not
a lot of power the shoulder injury. Coming back from
it didn't show a ton of power. But it's also
it's a pretty wide base. It's a pretty contact oriented
approach from both sides. Switch hitter who makes a lot
of contact. But I think he could play second, he
can play short, he can play third, to where if
you had an injury and you said, hey, we need
(30:23):
someone for two weeks, three weeks, whatever, he's an option
at multiple positions. That's where he has value. I don't
think that he's the guy who defensively is like, hey,
we're gonna move Ellie off of short because this guy's
here and he's a goal you know, he's a seventy defender.
I also don't think he's the bat where you're going
to say, like, hey, he's our new third baseman or
(30:45):
a second baseman. But it's valuable to have a guy
in TRIPAA who so many teams don't have a guy
if you have an injury at shortstop and you say,
what are we doing now, and it's like they're putting
a guy out there who's really a second baseman, or
they're putting a guy out there who's not ready for it.
I think Edwin Royo could fit that as in, hey,
if you need him, he'll be in Triple A and
he'll be ready to do that at a professional level,
(31:06):
is what I would say. Defense that's like makes the plays,
but not makes the gold glove plays.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
And that's basically what he is to the Reds right now.
Just an insurance policy, right, I mean, because you're not
going to put him in front of any of those
guys up there right now.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
No, No, I don't think. I don't think that there's
any scenario where you're saying, now, obviously, Matt McClain, you know,
two years ago was penciled in to be the second
basement all year and he didn't play it. You know
almost I don't think he played a game, So you
have to have backup plans for that.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
That's where you are.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
I do think he is, and that's where I would say, also,
like when you look at the Reds like, we kind
of know they're not going to be the team that says, oh,
we had an injury, We're gonna go out and get
a twenty five million dollar player at that position. You
need to have these kind of plans that when you
saw like the forty man roster protections, that's the kind
of thing they did. Here is is they added multiple
guys who I think, well, you wouldn't expect any of
(31:59):
them to play four hundred at bats in the big
leagues this year, but you would also expect must of
these guys will play in the big leagues this year
and are plausible ready to be called on to fill
in as roles.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Yeah, he could. He could fill in the the Santiago
espinall role basically, yes, and major league minimum. Yeah. All right,
well you brought up protection. They added Hector Rodriguez, Edwin
and Royo. We both talked about both of those guys,
Leo Balcazar and Jose Franco. All right, So with those
guys off the table, JJ Cooper Rule five Guru or
(32:37):
the only person in the world who cares about the
Rule five draft. JJ Cooper, who was the Red Slight
player most likely to be taken in the Reds in
the Rule five draft.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
Okay, so I'm gonna say I'm going to have a
really cop out answer. When they added Balcazar, I think
they took the guy off the table who was the
one plausible I think that that was a conservative decision,
right if they had not protected Leo Balcazar, I would
put it at like a forty sixty whether he had
even been taken. Because now we did a piece over
(33:12):
at Baseball America this week where we looked at it's
like over eighty five percent of all Rule five picks
now are pictures in the like in the twenty twenties,
so like you're not seeing a whole opposition players taken.
But Balcazar could have been a plausible utility man for
someone what we just talked about with for Royo, that's
what you would have been talking about for Balcausar. I
think Arroyo in the Reds pecking order is more ready
(33:35):
to do that, whereas Balcazar needs probably another year. But
with him off the table, there's a couple of injured
pitchers that maybe you point, but I don't think there's
really I don't think the Reds really have a whole
lot of risk of being, you know, kind of losing
a guy, and especially if I don't think if they
had someone taken that it's going to stick. I will
(33:55):
say though, of the guys they added, like again, I
do think Balcazar was the one where they're being conservative
by adding him. He could have maybe gotten through. I'm
not surprised. But Jose Franco they had to protect. I
think he one hundred percent would have been taken. And
if you ask me, of all the guys they added,
Franco's the one who I think will have the biggest
impact in twenty twenty six. I think they kind of
(34:18):
groomed him to kind of fill kind of that Nick
Martinez role that we've seen, Like he went later in
the year, they started using him a couple of times
in kind of this multi inning role, and they saw
his stuff ticked up like stuff ticked up already. But
when he did that, he seemed to really respond to it.
So if you told me that Franco ends up in
(34:40):
the Reds bullpen for most of the year, he has options.
It's always valuable to have a guy who could go
up and down. But if you told me that he
ended up being a guy who, Hey, he's going to
be a multi inning reliever, but not one that you're
saying like if he's he's not a wave of the
white flag multi inning reliever. He's a guy who, Hey,
we didn't get length from our starter today. This guy
I can give us two or three turn over the
(35:02):
lineup ones and keep our bullpen from getting worn out.
But he's also good enough that on another day, if
you said you wanted him to pitch the sixth or
you want to pitch seventh, you're talking ninety five to
ninety seven. A little bit wild at times, but not
too bad, and Els as a starter might get a
little better as a reliever. Slider ticked up because the
v LO ticked up. He's always known how to pitch.
I think he's kind of the sneaky guy. I started
(35:24):
with him at number ten on this list, Like I said,
it could have gone a lot of different ways. Got
done writing it, and I'm like, I'm saying, this guy
could be a big league swing man. And while those
roles have become more valuable in recent years, I was like, Okay,
Starlin Torres is a guy who could be a big
league starter with plus plus control. Okay, I'm gonna go
(35:44):
with that, even if he's further away. But I do
think Jose Franco's very much. I got to keep an eye.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
On very good, very good. Well, JJ, thanks so much
for your time. We really appreciate it, you know.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
So. Yeah, always great to see you, Trent.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Yeah, you too.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
I wish we could just go on and let JJ
tok man.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
I do too, but I have a flight to catch, so.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
But I will say, though, let me like one point
with this, that's also encouraging for Redspins. I think when
you talk about this prospects list, one other thing that
stands out is steelhall first round pick is on the
top ten. There were a number of very interesting draftees
who are going to be in that eleven through twenty range.
That's the sign of a deep system, right Like if
you're reading the tea leaves when you see when you're
(36:31):
reading a Baseball America prospect list, if you're seeing your
first pick and your second pick and your third pick
of your draft in the top eight, then no, probably
is pretty thin. But when you're not seeing these guys
who got money in the top ten, that's not because
they're terrible or anything. Like that. It's because you've got
a deeper system where you're like, Okay, these guys, even
(36:52):
though they're promising, we're going to see a little bit
more before they crack the top ten. That was something
that if you had told me that Mason Nevill or
Aaron Watson was on this list, it would be a
not a bad thing at all. Those were premium draft picks.
We've got money. We liked it going into the draft,
but I think that is a strong sign for this
farm system right now.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Well, awesome, Well, thank you so much. Go to Baseball
America JJ anything we should know, what are your plugs
or whatever?
Speaker 3 (37:20):
Go to Baseball America dot com right now. By the way,
we will have We do not do sales very often,
but we have a Black Friday sale coming up, so
if you have not subscribed, you know, we do a
printmag obviously still, but we also I would say, especially
the digital subscription where you get everything that we do
and we we work hard and we love it, but
we you know, like there's content all the time. There's
(37:40):
so much stuff that you can check out, whether you
love college baseball, the draft, prospects, major leagues, international, we're
just writing up all the guys who are coming over
from Japan, all of it. We love all of it.
World Baseball Classic coming up. I cannot wait. You know,
all that over at Baseball America dot com.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
Well thanks JJ. And then yeah, if you check that
out while you're on the old internets, you've got all
you know, you got AOL all dialed up like Danny
and I did. Yeah, one of those spare CDs sitting
around to put in your computer. Yeah, you know, you
subscribe to Baseball America and then also go, you know,
(38:17):
maybe please rate or subscribe to Riverfront Territory. We're having
a sale to you can reply. You can subscribe to
this YouTube channel for free. For free. It's code Danny,
you know, and you.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Know code click enter.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
And give us this, give us the like. I looked
at our our reviews today, Danny. They are glowing, glowing reviews.
So everybody loves you because well you're lovable. So you know,
go give your love of Danny Graves. They're on the
your usual, you know, give us five stars. Riverfront Territory
(39:06):
is part of the river the I'm sorry, Riverfront Territory.
We can edit this out right, no I edit, so
no Riverfront Territory is part of the Foul Territory network
and thanks for joining us and we'll see you next week.
Thank you again JJ, and thank you Danny.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
Thanks JJ.
Hey, I am c Trent Rosecrans. I am a senior
writer for the Athletic and he is the number five
prospect for the Cleveland Indians in nineteen ninety five. Mister
Danny Graves the Cincinnati Reads Whole Time saves leader and together,
like the Wonder Twins were the Riverfront Territory. Here on
(00:27):
the Foul Territory Network. First we're going to get to
news and then we will get our great guest, J J. Cooper.
You know, the news isn't real news. It's just kind
of like reiterating some of the overreactions that have gone
on the Hunter Green stuff. I think you and I
talked about like white just didn't make much sense. And
(00:47):
that's kind of what Nick Kral said to like, hey,
it doesn't really make much sense. And yeah, so there's
that one, and then the Ellie de la Cruz. You know,
it was playing with a strain, and then of course
you see the the blowback like how could they let
him play with a strain? Hey, Danny did h No,
I'm sorry, I'm sorry. He called it not a strain,
(01:09):
he said a partial tear, which is what a strain is.
And Danny, Yeah, so like you how many days did
you play without a strain? Probably like three?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Yeah, So again, I've played a lot with the partially
torn laborum, and like that was never like nobody ever
cared because everybody probably had a partially torn laborum that
pitched right.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Mm hmm oh. I got one the MRIs to prove
it so too, and and I was not throwing it
like you were. So with that, we can go someone
who did can't can't go like actually really old deep
with both of us when he went digging into the
(01:59):
the Prospect Handbook with Russell Branyan right there next to you,
number six. And I don't know that if does, I
mean JJ might go back to Russell Branyan in making
Georgia as a high schooler. So with that, we're going
to bring in executive editor of Baseball America JJ Cooper,
(02:20):
who was also a d g D. It's a damn
good dog one of us.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
I am older than Trent, and I was telling Danny
earlier like I remember a fresh faced, you know, starry
eyed Trent Nero Rosecrants, you know, freshman who was you know,
already driven and wanted to be the best. I will
say that, you know that was Yeah you really were
you really it stood out, it did. But yeah, I
did see Russ Brandian in high school and I did
(02:49):
cover him also. He was amazing in Columbus, you know,
amazing home runs and at the same time kind of
amazing strikeouts at the same time.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
When when do you remember first hearing of one young
Danny Graves? Probably when he was at Miami.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Right, Oh yeah, oh yeah, you know, And like we said,
I was fun going back to looking and through that.
It's like I've forgotten about the knee injury, you know
that that is something When I was found that, I
was like, oh yeah, I forgot about that. So you
you were good, not just strains, but you were playing
through all kinds of ailments from even before you became
a pro.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
That's what happens when you're an athlete, right, I think
you just have to deal with those strains or whatever
they want to call them these days. But but JJ,
when you sent that email with the clippings of the
old prospect rankings, I was just telling Trent. We talked
about this the other day. I was so close to
asking him did they even have top prospects back then?
(03:41):
Because I don't remember any of that stuff. And then
I see this in the email, and pretty impressive. You
kind of made my day.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Man, I'm glad to make your day.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
But yeah, so how we'll give Alan Simpson as the
founder of Baseball America. He deserves all kinds of credit
for this. I would love to see him in the
Hall of Fame one day, because he really did. I'm
not saying that there was no prospect covers before that,
but when Alan was crazy enough to decide that he
was going to found Baseball America magazine in his garage
in nineteen eighty one, and by the way, he was
(04:12):
an accountant before that. I don't know why he thought
that he would be able to do this by himself,
but he was crazy enough to do it. And nineteen
eighty three is the first team top ten prospect list.
And I have never been able to find an example.
I'm not saying that you couldn't find in the back
of the street in Smith's, like here are some names
to know, or things like that, but no one, I
(04:34):
don't believe, had ever systematically said, hey, we're going to
look at every major league organization and tell you who
the best players are. And the great thing about that
in the eighties was the farm directors, the managers, the scouts.
Everyone was like someone's paying attention to us. So the
information that Allan was able to get was truly remarkable.
(04:57):
Like you look back in those old issues like the
ninth teen eighty three draft, he had to produce that,
like weeks before the draft, He's like, here's gonna be
the number one pick. This is gonna be the number two,
this is gonna be the number three, this is gonna
be number four, all the way through because it's like
everyone's like, this is someone's actually paying attention to this.
Because you know, even when you were pitching in the minors.
(05:18):
And again, I was covering minor league baseball in the
mid nineties, and it was something where if if you
weren't there at the game, you might find out about
it a month or two months later. In Baseball America,
but that was about it. Like, you know, you could
have the craziest thing happened at a minor league game
and no one would ever notice. It was that you
(05:39):
were operating in this other world kind of until you
made the majors.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
It felt like I feel like, well I can tell
you though I can tell you. In those minor league
days in the mid nineties, we would look forward to
when Baseball America would be coming to the clubhouse because
we would want to see what already happened and what
was written about what had happened that nobody else was
talking about. So it's it's so impressive that Alan did that,
(06:06):
and without the resources that are out there today. Amazing.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
I remember going to Barnett's newsstand in Athens, Georgia, place
that JJ knows very well, and buying in nineteen ninety
four the Baseball America to get the draft results because
I knew guy grew up playing with was probably going
to get drafted. He had signed with Miami. Jimmy Anderson
(06:32):
then was your former teammate in Cincinnati. So yeah, and ninety.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Four was my draft year. So if you still have it,
let's check it out.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
I don't still have it, Danny. It went back to
Russell Hall full archives at my house.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
That's why I was able to find that so easily.
I have every issue of Baseball America going back to
nineteen eighty one sitting.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Oh my gosh, that's amazing. All right, Well, with that,
we're going to take a real quick break for our
first advertisement and uh, we will be right back and
hopefully I can get this done right.
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Speaker 1 (08:10):
Well, how about that. We're back, Danny. Have you did
you pick out which ones we're gonna have for matching.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
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so I'm gonna check it out after You're gonna pick
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Speaker 1 (08:24):
Yeah, tell us, tell us the code. What was the
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Speaker 1 (08:33):
F o U l uf o w l AnyWho with that.
JJ has been doing the Reds list for a long
long time. You want to name an obscure Red's minor leaguer,
I know just the guy for you, and that is
JJ Cooper. I mean, I'm guessing there are people that
(08:56):
drafted these guys who don't remember them that JJ does,
so you know, he seemed quite a bit. Who was
what was the first year you did the Reds?
Speaker 3 (09:05):
The first year I did him, I believe was three.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
It was.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
It was a rough list, to be honest, Like I mean,
it was fun to watch because I did him all
through the two thousands from then on. And that first
list got to number six, and I was running up
Miguel Perez, the Catcher, and it was like the write
up of him was this guy might be a backup
catcher And that was number six on the list, and
then by the end of the decade, I was writing
(09:32):
up like Todd Frazier at number six and saying, this
is a big league, everyday third baseman. But he's number
six on this list because ahead of him is Johnny
Quato and Joey Vado and Jay Bruce and you know
guys like that where it's like, yeah, you could watch
that team just develop into the team that ended up.
(09:55):
I know that it ended up not having as much
success as Reds fans wanted, but a team that was
a consist didn't winner a playoff team, and really I
look back on it and go like, I had a
great little stretch there.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
It just was shorter and.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Less playoff success than obviously team, you know, than everyone
would want it.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Well, here's the latest one. We'll put this up and
that was the wrong one that I hit. There we go,
we're learning, so you're we'll just run through it right here,
because you know Audio is part of this too. South
Stewart one top prospect in the Red organization Alfredo Duno,
who could profile to be better than a backup catcher.
(10:34):
RT Louder, the right hander number three after missing all
last year, still hadn't qualified, but you know, has a
couple of wins in the in the Big League. So
that's good. Shortstop Tyson Lewis, shortstop Steel Hall, right hander
Chase Petty, shortstop Edwin Arroyo, first basement DH. Let's be honest,
Cam Collier, outfielder Hector Rodriguez, and right hander Starlin Torres.
(10:57):
So let's just stop. Let's just go to the and
let's start with sal You know what, how did your
mind change about south Stewart through this season going from
last year at this time when you're talking to people today.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
It's funny. It's not what he did in September. It's
not the fact that he batted clean up for the
Reds in the playoffs in October, which, hey, those are
all very important things, very impressive things. But what I
would say, the key thing is is if you go
back to last May, before that, south Stewart had always
been this guy who could really hit. But whenever you
(11:36):
talk to Scalts about him, whenever you talk to coaches, evaluators,
fron ostipicials like but what he hasn't really shown yet
is that ability to turn like, Okay, he's in an
advantageous count, he gets a pitch he's looking for. He
was really just comfortable kind of flicking that ball off,
of which, hey, it's a great way to start. I
would much rather see a hitter who's capable of doing that,
(11:57):
who's comfortable using the whole field, did some one who
at eighteen is just sitting there going, okay, I'm looking
for a fastball in that I can yank over the fence.
Because the guy who can hit can learn power much
more than a guy who doesn't know how to hit
who has power.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Can learn how to hit.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
But you get to about May, and all of a sudden,
you started seeing homers, and not just homers, but you
started seeing home runs to left field. And in like
a six week stretch he hit more homers to left
field than he had hit and in the entirety of
his pro career to that point. That's not long after
that he got promoted to double A. But we're seeing
(12:33):
the power now in a way that we did not
see before this year.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
You know, it's almost like in when you put it
this way like you did, it's almost like you went
from a guy who was Jesse Winker to Joey Vodder.
Now not saying they're that level he had, just Joey
Vodder is a Hall of Famer, Justin Winkers, an All Star,
but like Jesse, was a guy who was always going
to flip it over to the other side. And when Joey,
especially when it came up early. The thing about Joey
(12:58):
was that that oppo field power where he would could
wait and make you still pay by driving it to
the to left field.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
He has and again this is south Stewart has an
all field approach. But now I think that it is
a key thing. He's unlocked here to where hey, but
if you try to bust him in, because again he's
always been comfortable if you go away, away away. There
are a lot of singles, doubles and some homers for
him out there. But before if you came in, it
was actually a little bit more difficult for him. Now
(13:34):
if you come in, he can punish you. The great
thing about that for south Stewart is is now that
he can do that, it leads to pictures going away
from him more, which is something that he's always been
very comfortable handling. So I think that when it comes
to south Stewart as a hitter, I look at this
Red's lineup, I look at what the Reds kind of
where they were last year. I think he's going to
be very important for them in twenty twenty six because
(13:57):
we've seen it, Like when Christian and Carnasium's brand came up.
This was a guy who writing about him, writing up him,
you know, but also writing about him during the season.
It was like, look, the power's real. He's always hit
for average, but let's just acknowledge it's come from that.
If a pitch is over his head it feels bouncing,
you know, is a Vladimir Guerrero junior a senior approach.
(14:20):
There's a lat senior approach without lad Senior. Is the
only guy I've ever seen who's like, you could, you know,
throw it like a cricket ball and he would like, okay,
I just hit a homer off of it. It's come
back to haunt him a little bit. He's gonna have
to get more selected. South Stewart kind of comes in,
I would say, at a very polished It's hard for
me to believe he's not going to be a solid
(14:42):
hitter for Cincinnati in twenty twenty six. He's probably one
of the more take Ellie out of this, because Ellie's
a freak of all freaks. He's one of the more
ready and kind of well rounded, realized hitters that the
Reds have produced in quite a while.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
I would say, what is his position at the big
league level? Like set and Stonech, I mean it says
he's first base, third base, He can play second base.
Do you see him as just a first baseman or
slash DH.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Well, I would okay. I wrote about this recently over
at Baseball America that if if he's gonna play third
long term, he's gonna have to add like two to
three grades of arm strength. He had the When I
say that he had the worst arm of any third
basement in the major leagues, he was two levels below.
What I would say is is kind of the low
(15:30):
level arms, like the worst arms for other guys. South
Stewart in Triple A and the major leagues never threw
a ball harder than eighty two miles, And like I
think it's like eighty two miles an hour across the diamond.
The average third baseman's average throw is eighty six. So
and we saw that, like again there was it's one play,
but like there was that Miguel Rojas play in the
(15:52):
playoffs where he goes to his backhand, and it's not
an easy play. That's not a play that most guys
make every time, but that is the play where you're
good third baseman. They love that play. They get there
and then it's like, I'm going to show you that
I have an absolute cannon here and they throw them
out by two steps. Sal can't get the ball on
(16:13):
a line from there to first base. I think when
you have Cabrian Hayes who just wins good, I mean,
got to work on his hitting obviously, But if you
have Cabrian Hayes, who is a gold Glove and every
year is a gold Glove third baseman, I'm not saying
that you won't ever put him out there for a
day or two, but it seems illogical to me that
you're going to say, hey, Cabrian, you're not playing. Especially
(16:34):
there should never really be a day other if Cabrian
Hayes is mobile enough to play in the field, where
you say they're both going to be in the lineup
and Sal you're going to be at third and Cabrian
you're going to be playing somewhere else or behing or whatever,
because again he's just not that's not his thing. It's
not you want him and they need a first basement.
The other thing about this is like there's a clear
(16:55):
opportunity here, not that they don't have other guys who
can play first base, but I would say that's probably
his primary position going for it.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Yeah, you know, here's the guy that you have a
little lower. I think if if you had the Reds,
you know, if we had Nick Crawl or you know,
any of the guys from the Reds in here on this, Uh,
they might have Hector Rodriguez a little bit higher. What
what kind of players Hector Rodriguez. They're they're really really
(17:22):
high on Hector Rodriguez.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Really hit, and he's a guy who obviously was picked
up a few years ago in the Mets trade Tyler
Naquin at the deadline, and he's really just shown he's
again when we talk about aggressiveness, he also is one
of the he used to be when he was an
a ball, he was the most aggressive hitter in the miners.
Like your normal swing rate is this guy swing it
between forty forty five percent of all pitches they see.
(17:49):
Hector Rodriguez an a ball was swinging it close to
sixty sixty two percent. Sometimes of pitches he saw. It
was like, if you threw it out there, he's gonna hit.
But he has excellent battle ball skills to make that work.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Two.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
As you would want to see, as he's moved up
the ladder, as he's faced more advanced pitchers, they're around
the plate more. But he's also realizing, you know, hitting
that that two to oh slider or that two to
one slider off the plate that's down in a way
might not be the best thing for me. He's laying
(18:22):
off some more pitches. He's still hitting for average. I
think the question with him is is that when I
talk to scouts outside the organization, the reason he's kind
of where he's slotted there is is there is some
question about is this guy going to be an everyday
regular or is it going to be more of kind
of that role player. And a lot of that comes
down to there's some athleticism here, but he's not ever
been a great defender in the outfield. I would say, like,
(18:45):
the great thing about now the things we can that
I can do now that I could not do fifteen
years ago, is is dial up Okay, I'm hoping open
up sw Synergy Sports. I'm going to watch every play
you know that Ector made in the outfield or significant play.
And one thing that really does jump out is is
when you talk about balls over his head. Hector Rodriguez
does not like to go back, especially like when he
(19:06):
hits the warning track. You're if you ever see, you know,
a report that Hector Rodriguez crashed, you know, full speed
into the wall, I would question whether you know, like,
what was that really Hector Rodriguez he does, he slows down,
he's there. If the ball's over his head and he
hits the warning track, he's like, I'm not I'm gonna
not hurt myself here. There are things like that that
he just needs to kind of improve on.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
You know.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
Again, he's a left fielder. Probably you could probably play
him and right if you needed to, but you want
to see him be a little bit better as a
defender out there to go with the bat. That's kind
of where it's a little bit more. And again, I
would say the tough thing about when we do a ranking,
we also do what we call the bing raids, which
I've done this and yes, and so the thing that's
kind of tricky about this is when you're doing ordinal rankings,
(19:50):
it's like one, two, three, four, five, and someone may think, oh, well,
why is this guy six? This guy's two, and it's like, well,
really one's here, two and six is here, And then
like on this list, I would say the top nine
was a clear top nine. At ten, I could have
gone ten different ways, I feel like, because that's where
there's a little bit of another delineation where I felt like,
(20:13):
I mean, Tyson Lewis started on this list at six,
and he just kept moving up as I wrote about him,
as I talked to people about him. You see things
like that, you know, And that's where kind of a
guy like Hector Rodriguez, who's a safer bet, ended up
moving down a little bit, obviously, just out of the
forty man. But I went with a guys who have
a little bit more upside, who are a little further away.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Danny, I know you had a guy that you were
curious about on this one of these ten.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Yeah, yeah, and not questioning the number he is, because
I don't even want to begin to rank any of
these players, but a guy that's intriguing to me, and
we saw a little bit of him this year, Chase Petty.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
What more can we.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Expect from him, because I feel like a couple of
years ago he had in that dominating year in the
minor leagues, and then his numbers are trending the wrong
direction in my opinion, has is there something that he
needs to figure out or what's going on? In your
opinion with him?
Speaker 3 (21:06):
I think he's better than his numbers in twenty five reflected. Obviously,
if he wasn't, we I should not be putting them
in the top ten because let's just be clear, not
just his big league numbers, but his triple A numbers.
We were not good this year. But when you you know,
and y'all saw him, you know, when he was in
the majors, he's never I don't think like we think
back to when he was drafted and it was like, oh,
(21:27):
he throws one hundred and one and all that. That's
really not the pitcher he is. He's more of kind
of that hit your spots, sinker down multiple pitches, you know,
kind of that guy who if it's all working, I
would say that he's going to be a guy who
kind of turns over the lineup a couple of times,
like more of kind of that mid to back of
the rotation starter than that front rine hunter green type flamethrower.
(21:50):
But what we saw this this past year was it's
because of that there's kind of fine margins. And to
his credit, in some ways, his pitches have a lot
of like he has a lot of armside run for one,
and it seemed like a lot of times like that
astro start he had in the big leagues, he was
missing spots and key counts right like, so he'd be
(22:12):
in a you know, a one to one count and
Ketch would set the target and the pitch would leak,
you know, sometimes it would leak into the zone too
much and he catched too much of his zone card hit.
Sometimes it would you know, leak out of the zone
where it's like okay, ball two, ball three. Those those
fine margins that he never saw that when he was
in the lower levels of the miners. You know, he
(22:32):
didn't give up any home runs and he didn't walk
many guys. As you've gone through it, like as you
climb the ladder, those things that worked for you in
the lower miners don't work as well. I would say,
there's a little bit of refinement there, and it's not
again the thing that stands out about it is. It's
not like his stuff really backed up. It's not like, oh,
(22:53):
he doesn't have major league quality pitches, command and control,
especially command, though I'd say was a little bit off,
not because of anything other than you've got to learn
how to harness that movement. Right, it's gonna it could
be really a weapon for him down the road. But
if it's getting you into trouble, you've got to figure out. Okay.
Maybe it's figuring out how to have a little bit
less run, like change your grip just to touch, or
(23:15):
maybe it's learning how to consistently do it where you
feel like, okay, I know that I can run this.
It's going to look like it's in on my hands,
but in the zone, and then it's gonna run off
the zone, you know, for a ball, make it hardly
hard to hit. Those kind of things are I think
still the to do list for him. The good news
for him is I think he goes back into twenty
twenty six barring something unexpected. The Reds have rotation depth
(23:39):
where he can go back to triple A. They don't
need to count on him y, especially if we're at
Louder coming back and say okay, by mid season if
there's an opening, he hopefully's ready. I don't think it's
day one of the season at this point.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Well, and he's only twenty two, so yeah, I mean
that happens.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
He's still young, prep up high school first round pick,
so he's moved. You know, he's moved pretty quick until
this year where it's like, okay, now let's slow it
down a little bit.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
All right, Well, well, we asked for some questions over
on X and Tyler gave us two, so it's going
to give our kind Tyler gave us more than that,
but I picked out two from Tyler, you know, he says,
I was excited to see the Reds take ty Floyd
in the draft a couple of years ago. Obviously, he's
dealt with what's appeared appears to have been a significant injury, though.
(24:25):
Does he still have a shot to be a difference
maker at the big league level someday? And if so,
how quickly do you think?
Speaker 3 (24:31):
Not quick unfortunately, because I did in the top ten
and reporting on that, like the Reds. The funny thing
is is the Reds, I think if their first pick
have really emphasized durability. Chase Burns has really not had
any injury issues, significant injury issues tried going back to
the start of his high school career.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Rhet Louder.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
This injury he had this past year, I believe is
the first time that he's really missed a start, going
back to like when he was like a twelve year old. So,
like they've gone for these guys who have this real durability,
but then they've had this second pitcher pick in recent
years where they've taken some really top performers from the
SEC Ty Floyd, Hunter Holland, you know, guys like that,
(25:16):
and they've had real injury issues with those guys. And
Floyd and Holland are both not expected to be back
on the mound till mid season. Probably competitive, you know,
on the mound, it's been just injury after injury kind
of situations. Where to answer his question, like if we
get to see the Ty Floyd that was there that
(25:37):
we saw at LSU get back into that form as
a pro, yes, one hundred percent, that could be an
impact guy. But the tricky part of that is is
we haven't seen that guy as a pro yet because
he's been I mean we're talking, you know, the Reds
have like three of these guys who have like no innings,
no pro innings almost you don't know if you're going
(25:59):
to see that right, Like we're and we have to
see one can you get back and be healthy? And
then two is this stuff where it was pre injury
right now? I mean, I'm going to rank ty Floyd
in the top thirty when we do the thirty for
the handbook, but he's not going to be very high
on it because the further the when you have one injury, Okay,
it's something where you say pitchers have injuries when it's
(26:20):
multiple years and then it's stretching into a third year.
Not that it's still you can't bounce back, but the
likelihood of bouncing back gets smaller the more years. I
would say that you are still struggling to get back
on the map.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Interesting, Yeah, I mean he was probably always going to
be a bullpen arm anyway, right.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
I mean we see, like I think like there was
a chance like if you came out like again an
ideal world, he comes out, you know, lights it up
and you're like, okay, but I would say, especially also
when you look at this the construction of this team again,
this is the thing that you were talking about before
I came on, Like about Hunter Green. It's like, Okay,
it doesn't make sense to trade Hunter Green because you
have them signed. Like I don't understand other than like
(27:02):
I get the fascination from like New York Media Market
and all something like, hey, who are the best pictures
who are on small market teams?
Speaker 1 (27:09):
We want to trade for them?
Speaker 3 (27:10):
But I don't get it from a standpoint of like
why would the Reds trade the front of the rotation
a's But I will say, like I do think that
the Reds logically could look at moving a picture or
to this office because that's where they have the depth,
Like their rotation depth is enviable right now? By Yeah,
I just don't know that any big market teams that
would envy this.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Yeah yeah, I just don't know that there's anybody who
would give up enough to equal your value of Hunter
Green right now?
Speaker 3 (27:37):
Oh yeah, I wouldn't trade that Green.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
I'm like, if you look at between the other guys.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
Right, do you want to trade a Nicolodolo and Andrew Abbott?
You know a Brady Singer who's kind of you know,
coming into the you know it's really good, but is
in the fight you know, is coming close to free agency.
Those moves where you say, especially I look at this
Reds team and you say right now, like, well, what
is their problem? I'd say it's at least one, if
not two bats away from where you would want to
(28:03):
see it. So like and south Stewart's here, but I
don't think that there's another guy who's knocking on the
door where you say, Hector Rodriguez may be up at
some point in twenty twenty six, but if Hector Rodriguez arrives,
you're not going to say, Okay, this is a guy
who's batting third in our lineup and transforming the lineup.
It's going to be getting a guy like Matt McClain
(28:24):
back to being more what he was of pre injury
than what he was last year. It's but I do
think it's bringing in hoping Noel a Marte has a
breakout year in right field, but it probably is also
bringing in one more outfielder, one more bat where you say, Okay,
this lineup's now with Stewart and this guy two players
deeper than it was last year.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Hoping.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
Obviously, the Elie de la Cruz healthy is is more
first half Ellie de la Cruz than second half things
like that.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Yeah, and then the other one of you wanted to
be basically said, you know, ty Tyler said, you know,
you heard all about Edwin and Royo being a great
defender and big Lee ready defensively, but he then he
read somebody else saying that the exact opposite. You know,
Edwin Arroyo. I think what was most impressive, like how
well he bounced back offensively this year considering the injury
(29:13):
that he had. But defensively, I think he's.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
A solid defender. I mean, I've tried to write up
every year. When I write him up, it's like, this
guy's solid. I don't think he's spectacular. It's funny when
we had our Reds chat, you know, about my top
ten at our site, I had all these people asking me,
why are you not moving Elle de la Cruz off
of shortstop when you project? And I'm like, because I'm
not fixated on trying to move the best player on
(29:38):
the team off of you know, the position for I
would say, like steel Hall. Now steel Hall is on
this top ten. If you told me that his arrival
is around the time that Ellie kind of is aging
into moving off because steel Hall's really good defensively. Maybe
Edwin Arroyo, who's just added the forty, fits as kind
of like the guy to be in Triple A, who
if you have an injury the big league level, this
(30:01):
guy's going to give you solid at bats. There's not
a lot of power the shoulder injury. Coming back from
it didn't show a ton of power. But it's also
it's a pretty wide base. It's a pretty contact oriented
approach from both sides. Switch hitter who makes a lot
of contact. But I think he could play second, he
can play short, he can play third, to where if
you had an injury and you said, hey, we need
(30:23):
someone for two weeks, three weeks, whatever, he's an option
at multiple positions. That's where he has value. I don't
think that he's the guy who defensively is like, hey,
we're gonna move Ellie off of short because this guy's
here and he's a goal you know, he's a seventy defender.
I also don't think he's the bat where you're going
to say, like, hey, he's our new third baseman or
(30:45):
a second baseman. But it's valuable to have a guy
in TRIPAA who so many teams don't have a guy
if you have an injury at shortstop and you say,
what are we doing now, and it's like they're putting
a guy out there who's really a second baseman, or
they're putting a guy out there who's not ready for it.
I think Edwin Royo could fit that as in, hey,
if you need him, he'll be in Triple A and
he'll be ready to do that at a professional level,
(31:06):
is what I would say. Defense that's like makes the plays,
but not makes the gold glove plays.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
And that's basically what he is to the Reds right now.
Just an insurance policy, right, I mean, because you're not
going to put him in front of any of those
guys up there right now.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
No, No, I don't think. I don't think that there's
any scenario where you're saying, now, obviously, Matt McClain, you know,
two years ago was penciled in to be the second
basement all year and he didn't play it. You know
almost I don't think he played a game, So you
have to have backup plans for that.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
That's where you are.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
I do think he is, and that's where I would say, also,
like when you look at the Reds like, we kind
of know they're not going to be the team that says, oh,
we had an injury, We're gonna go out and get
a twenty five million dollar player at that position. You
need to have these kind of plans that when you
saw like the forty man roster protections, that's the kind
of thing they did. Here is is they added multiple
guys who I think, well, you wouldn't expect any of
(31:59):
them to play four hundred at bats in the big
leagues this year, but you would also expect must of
these guys will play in the big leagues this year
and are plausible ready to be called on to fill
in as roles.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Yeah, he could. He could fill in the the Santiago
espinall role basically, yes, and major league minimum. Yeah. All right,
well you brought up protection. They added Hector Rodriguez, Edwin
and Royo. We both talked about both of those guys,
Leo Balcazar and Jose Franco. All right, So with those
guys off the table, JJ Cooper Rule five Guru or
(32:37):
the only person in the world who cares about the
Rule five draft. JJ Cooper, who was the Red Slight
player most likely to be taken in the Reds in
the Rule five draft.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
Okay, so I'm gonna say I'm going to have a
really cop out answer. When they added Balcazar, I think
they took the guy off the table who was the
one plausible I think that that was a conservative decision,
right if they had not protected Leo Balcazar, I would
put it at like a forty sixty whether he had
even been taken. Because now we did a piece over
(33:12):
at Baseball America this week where we looked at it's
like over eighty five percent of all Rule five picks
now are pictures in the like in the twenty twenties,
so like you're not seeing a whole opposition players taken.
But Balcazar could have been a plausible utility man for
someone what we just talked about with for Royo, that's
what you would have been talking about for Balcausar. I
think Arroyo in the Reds pecking order is more ready
(33:35):
to do that, whereas Balcazar needs probably another year. But
with him off the table, there's a couple of injured
pitchers that maybe you point, but I don't think there's
really I don't think the Reds really have a whole
lot of risk of being, you know, kind of losing
a guy, and especially if I don't think if they
had someone taken that it's going to stick. I will
(33:55):
say though, of the guys they added, like again, I
do think Balcazar was the one where they're being conservative
by adding him. He could have maybe gotten through. I'm
not surprised. But Jose Franco they had to protect. I
think he one hundred percent would have been taken. And
if you ask me, of all the guys they added,
Franco's the one who I think will have the biggest
impact in twenty twenty six. I think they kind of
(34:18):
groomed him to kind of fill kind of that Nick
Martinez role that we've seen, Like he went later in
the year, they started using him a couple of times
in kind of this multi inning role, and they saw
his stuff ticked up like stuff ticked up already. But
when he did that, he seemed to really respond to it.
So if you told me that Franco ends up in
(34:40):
the Reds bullpen for most of the year, he has options.
It's always valuable to have a guy who could go
up and down. But if you told me that he
ended up being a guy who, Hey, he's going to
be a multi inning reliever, but not one that you're
saying like if he's he's not a wave of the
white flag multi inning reliever. He's a guy who, Hey,
we didn't get length from our starter today. This guy
I can give us two or three turn over the
(35:02):
lineup ones and keep our bullpen from getting worn out.
But he's also good enough that on another day, if
you said you wanted him to pitch the sixth or
you want to pitch seventh, you're talking ninety five to
ninety seven. A little bit wild at times, but not
too bad, and Els as a starter might get a
little better as a reliever. Slider ticked up because the
v LO ticked up. He's always known how to pitch.
I think he's kind of the sneaky guy. I started
(35:24):
with him at number ten on this list, Like I said,
it could have gone a lot of different ways. Got
done writing it, and I'm like, I'm saying, this guy
could be a big league swing man. And while those
roles have become more valuable in recent years, I was like, Okay,
Starlin Torres is a guy who could be a big
league starter with plus plus control. Okay, I'm gonna go
(35:44):
with that, even if he's further away. But I do
think Jose Franco's very much. I got to keep an eye.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
On very good, very good. Well, JJ, thanks so much
for your time. We really appreciate it, you know.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
So. Yeah, always great to see you, Trent.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Yeah, you too.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
I wish we could just go on and let JJ
tok man.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
I do too, but I have a flight to catch, so.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
But I will say, though, let me like one point
with this, that's also encouraging for Redspins. I think when
you talk about this prospects list, one other thing that
stands out is steelhall first round pick is on the
top ten. There were a number of very interesting draftees
who are going to be in that eleven through twenty range.
That's the sign of a deep system, right Like if
you're reading the tea leaves when you see when you're
(36:31):
reading a Baseball America prospect list, if you're seeing your
first pick and your second pick and your third pick
of your draft in the top eight, then no, probably
is pretty thin. But when you're not seeing these guys
who got money in the top ten, that's not because
they're terrible or anything. Like that. It's because you've got
a deeper system where you're like, Okay, these guys, even
(36:52):
though they're promising, we're going to see a little bit
more before they crack the top ten. That was something
that if you had told me that Mason Nevill or
Aaron Watson was on this list, it would be a
not a bad thing at all. Those were premium draft picks.
We've got money. We liked it going into the draft,
but I think that is a strong sign for this
farm system right now.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Well, awesome, Well, thank you so much. Go to Baseball
America JJ anything we should know, what are your plugs
or whatever?
Speaker 3 (37:20):
Go to Baseball America dot com right now. By the way,
we will have We do not do sales very often,
but we have a Black Friday sale coming up, so
if you have not subscribed, you know, we do a
printmag obviously still, but we also I would say, especially
the digital subscription where you get everything that we do
and we we work hard and we love it, but
we you know, like there's content all the time. There's
(37:40):
so much stuff that you can check out, whether you
love college baseball, the draft, prospects, major leagues, international, we're
just writing up all the guys who are coming over
from Japan, all of it. We love all of it.
World Baseball Classic coming up. I cannot wait. You know,
all that over at Baseball America dot com.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
Well thanks JJ. And then yeah, if you check that
out while you're on the old internets, you've got all
you know, you got AOL all dialed up like Danny
and I did. Yeah, one of those spare CDs sitting
around to put in your computer. Yeah, you know, you
subscribe to Baseball America and then also go, you know,
(38:17):
maybe please rate or subscribe to Riverfront Territory. We're having
a sale to you can reply. You can subscribe to
this YouTube channel for free. For free. It's code Danny,
you know, and you.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Know code click enter.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
And give us this, give us the like. I looked
at our our reviews today, Danny. They are glowing, glowing reviews.
So everybody loves you because well you're lovable. So you know,
go give your love of Danny Graves. They're on the
your usual, you know, give us five stars. Riverfront Territory
(39:06):
is part of the river the I'm sorry, Riverfront Territory.
We can edit this out right, no I edit, so
no Riverfront Territory is part of the Foul Territory network
and thanks for joining us and we'll see you next week.
Thank you again JJ, and thank you Danny.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
Thanks JJ.
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