November 14, 2025 • 46 mins
Danny Graves and C. Trent Rosecrans look ahead to the Cincinnati Reds’ future by identifying the core of the team for the remainder of the decade, with help from the new Baseball America Top 10 Prospects list.
Danny tells you why Sal Stewart is part of the team’s core and isn’t just a flash in the pan.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hello, Welcome once again to Riverfront terrorfor Territory on the
Foul Territory Network. I'm Sea Trent Rosecrans. I I am
a senior MLB writer for The Athletic, and he is
Danny Graves, who has two more Big League home runs
than I do.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
You got to it before I could even say anything.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
I know. I just figured i'd get it out of
the way.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Yeah, yeah, perfect, We're done for this episode of my
home run talk.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Obviously. Well, and the one in Houston went like two
hundred and eighty feet right right, but it still made
it over the defence was there. It's the same way,
like I mean, you were throwing in front of that fence, so.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Yeah, because I gave up some homers on that fence too,
so it's it's all equal.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Yeah, so good. I shouldn't just start everyone with the
Danny Graves baseball reference page up there, because I know
I'm going to like go back and find something because
it is. It is. It is a super fun game.
But this is what I do for fun.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
No, that's so much fun.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
And you last episode you actually made me very emotional
because I was completely off on my last ever big
league pitch yea, yeah, it was just a double, just
a double. That's a big difference.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Okay. So, oh, here's a good question. Besides your two
home ball or besides the two ballparks in Cincinnati, what
three stadiums did you give up the most home runs in?
(01:55):
And each was just five, so not that many.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Okay, So I would say Saint Louis.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Nopell gave up one in Saint Louis.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Seriously, Yeah, that's I can't imagine.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
And that was to hold on, don't tell me. I'll
figure that out in a second. Okay, Wriggly has to
be one of them.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Nope, Chicago Wriggly, you gave up a couple, but like
you gave up four in Wrigley.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Milwaukee Miller Park, that's four.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Oh my gosh, I love this stump gravy segment.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Yeah, oh my, I don't even I don't even know,
because I was pretty good in Dodger Stadium, pretty good
in Atlanta, Jesu, I can't even think now.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Pittsburgh, No, just three, This is a tough game.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Oh well, you've already mentioned one plus plus Pittsburgh. You
did well. You didn't give any up at three Rivers, So.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
I don't only I don't have I didn't have many
outings at three Rivers, I don't think.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Yeah, maybe a few.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Oh my gosh, Schay Stadium, Yes, okay, my last one
there was to David Bell, I believe, Okay, maybe or
maybe it was Todd Hilton, one of the two.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
One's a Hall of Famer, so.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Yeah, oh gosh, I can't even where else Cleveland, Cleveland four,
you're we've already talked about one.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
That has five or more.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Yeah, and there were division so it was Houston, Yeah,
not the No.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Ron or whatever it was in run at the time.
And then the other one is Bank one Ball or
in Arizona. You gave up five in Arizona.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
I should have known. Yeah, I should have known that.
I hated pitching there.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
I hated.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Oh yeah, it's it's it's kind of like not a
fun park, you know.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
No, no, And I can tell you Travis Leela, Junior Spivey,
and I don't know.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
I can't remember who else.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Okay, I found out who who hit? Who was the
one cardinal to hit a home run off of you?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Was it Renterrhea?
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Nope, Okay, I'll just say it. Merlin Anderson.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Well, yeah, he hit me out in Saint Louis and
in Cincinnati. I should have guessed. Yeah, but he was
like six for eight off me.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Really yeah, let's see every pitch that I was throwing though, Like.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Yeah, yeah, do you replace Todd Jones? Gave up with
oh yeah, he came in with the bases loaded in
two thousand and four in Saint Louis, replaced Todd Jones
who had loaded the bases. Uh. You guys were ahead
five to two, and we won't talk about anything after
(05:28):
that didn't end up?
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Well huh.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
You got Tony Romack who crowned out to end the
ending though, so you walked off without the man, well
with your team. So there's something.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
But the game didn't end or it did end.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
No, no, no, that was the It was in the
eighth Okay, oh wait, no, that's in Cincinnati. Shoot, I
had the wrong one. That was my bad. I it
I just saw Saint Louis. Okay, oh man, this is
great audio. Man, this is the people are just clamoring
(06:10):
to come back off this one. You're the hall. The
one you gave up in Saint Louis was to a
Hall of Famer, so you got that yep.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Yeah, it was a Grand Slam, was it?
Speaker 3 (06:22):
No?
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Oh, let's see it was home run Larry Walker, Reggie
Sanders scores, Marlon Anderson scores, Tony Womack scores. Yeah, hey,
but you got jeez, but you got a Hall of
Famer to get out of that ending pools No pooles
singled after Walker Homeward Uh, Scott Roland, Oh okay, flyball
(06:47):
to deep centerfield. Dude, this is awesome. I'm sorry, this
is just probably boring as hell for anybody watching, but.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
No listen though, I can tell you too. That was
two thousand and four.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
So Walker hits the Grand in two thousand and five,
beginning of the season. We're in Saint Louis and there's
bases loaded with one out.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Larry Walker's up.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
I intentionally walk Larry Walker to face Albert Pouhols. Yeah,
bases loaded, one out with the one run lead. He
is the first pitch to Joe Randa groundball, double play,
game over.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
We win.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
If Walker doesn't hit the Grand Slam the year before,
we don't intentionally walk him.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Yeah. Wow, that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Yeah, yeah, pretty crazy.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Yeah, that's crazy. So what we're going to talk about
today it's going to start with Baseball America came out
with its its top ten Reds prospects, so it's kind
of gonda even go through that. But it's a little
bit that I found kind of interesting off of that.
We'll start with prospects because, like I know, you haven't
gotten too deep into all the prospects, but so I'll
(07:50):
just do there. This is one through ten South Stewart. Uh.
We know Alfredo Duno, who was in low A last
year maybe had like some of the best strike zone
judgment in baseball, which is a good thing to start with.
And then he's just an extremely large individual with power
(08:11):
and some pretty decent speed, all good things, and he's
a catcher. Rhet Louder third, Tyson Lewis, shortstop, drafted two
years ago, had a really good first season. One of
the reasons they were able to they saw Sammy Staffura
is is able for them to be able to move
(08:32):
him in the in the deal that they they made
it the deal at the deadline. Steel Hall this year's
first round pick, Chase Petty. Ba's really high on Chase
Petty apparently, and I understand why quite honestly, didn't have
a great season. But the stuff is, it's part of
the growing process. To me, shortstop Edwin Arroyo, who actually
(08:53):
had a pretty good bounce back from shoulder surgery. So
I'll be interested to see that your after shoulder surgery,
how he does or after playing a year with it, Yeah,
because I think there's some you know that that surgery
can take two years to get over really And I
put that caveaut with with Matt McClain as well. Yeah,
(09:15):
and then eight is Cam Collier. Nine Hector Rodriguez, and
then ten is Starlin Torres who pitched in Arizona last
year and one of those guys that apparently has really
good command. And when you're nineteen and with good command,
that's pretty uh, that's pretty impressive.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
You shouldn't have good command when you're nineteen. You should
just have stuff.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Yeah, Yeah, you get stuff and then like you know,
like you're allowed to drink and then you're allowed to
have command at twenty one. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Yeah, So that's that's pretty impressive. A lot of good
names on this.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
List, man, it's pretty good. I mean, like Edwin Arroyo,
Like when that's your seven cam call all years your
eight and I think if you talk to people inside
the organization. I think they might have Hector Rodriguez higher
than this. Yeah, they really like Hector Rodriguez. He's a
guy who can just hit, you know, it's aggressive. But yeah, yeah,
(10:20):
I mean he's he'll be on the forty man here soon.
I I would be barring injury, of course, I mean
I think we always we should always use that as
a caveat or should maybe be understood. But barring injury,
I can't imagine not seeing him in twenty twenty six,
partially because he'll be on the forty man. They need
to protect him and Edwin Arroyo the same. Although I
(10:44):
think Hector, you know, Edwin Arroyo I think would get
up if they're middle dfield injuries, which there always can be,
so I would I would expect to see both of
those guys up this year. So yeah. And then but
what they do is they always do, is a projected
lineup for twenty twenty nine, which is a couple of
years down the line. And this is what I thought
(11:06):
was really interesting because the way they had it. I'll
go catch her through and they do a DH and
starters and closers. Catcher Alfredo Dono, first base Al Stewart
second base, Mount McLain third base, Edwin Royo shortstop, Elie
de la Cruz, leftfield, Tyson Lewis centerfield, Steel Hall right field,
Noelvie Marte, DHKM Collier, and then your rotation is Hunter Green,
(11:29):
Chase Burns, rut Lauder Inder, Rabbit, Chase Petty and closer
Luis May. So that's sixteen names, and ten of those
we've already seen at the big league level, which is
pretty impressive when you're looking that far out. But add
to that that, none of those guys, the ten that
have done when we're talking about, you know, three to
four years in the future, none of them will be
(11:51):
older than thirty. And your number four starter in this
situation just finished eighth and Cy Young voting in the
National League. Yeah, and Rabbit and was an All Star.
You have two guys who have been All Stars. There. Yeah,
there's some talent. So really kind of this is something
(12:12):
we've been talking about or leading up to as an
idea for a while, was what do you consider the
core of this team in this organization, Because when you're
making moves in the offseason and you're gonna have to
make some trades, probably when you're making those, you have
(12:34):
to look at your organization in the pieces that you
say okay, like they did with Sammy Stefero, where they
saw Tyson Lewis and Steel Hall kind of the same level.
You saw Ellie Dale Cruz, Edwin Arroyo ahead of him
in those at the higher levels and some other guys
in that same role. So that's when you go, okay,
(12:57):
we can cover this. We can send him out to
better our team. Now. He may be a very good
player in the future, and he has all the tools too. He's,
you know, a really highly regarded prospect for a reason. However,
that's a they have that position. I wouldn't say covered,
(13:17):
but you know, because you never have like you never
have enough shortstops or right handed starters, right like, right like,
if you're right handed and you're drafted, you were either
a shortstop or a right handed starter, right Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
And the shortstops there's, like we've seen, there's plenty of
them on the prospect list, but then on the twenty
nine projected lineup, there's only one shortstop that can play shortstop,
and right now it's Ellie. But the other shortstops are
moved to different positions because.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
You have five guys who were shortstops in the minors
and like primary shortstops and McClain, Arroyo, Lewis Hall, and
Marte the entire outfield, and that's what shortstops do, right,
shortstops moved elsewhere. Like I mean, Danny, tell me when
(14:10):
you were growing up all through high school, you were
the shortstop, right, No, I.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Wish I could say I was. But Central Florida we.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Had good baseball.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Oh yeah, yeah we had. We had a lot of
good prospects.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
So so you like the shortstops you played with who
were playing shortstop, and so you also probably played college
baseball and pro bas fall and all that.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Yes, yes, a lot of them went got scholarships to
go play college baseball. So like I really had no
chance to play before the high school. Yes, I played shortstop,
and yeah and post career, I played shortstop whenever I
mess around with older guys because I think I could
play shortstop. But yes, that's where the great athletes go.
(14:53):
And I realized that wasn't a great athlete, so I stopped.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
But we even talked about that last time, Like your
old teammate and my old teammate Jimmy Anderson was a
short step when we were kids because we're the best players,
or he was the best player, I was not. Yeah,
even though he's left handed.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Well, but yeah, yes he was.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Oh yeah, so he did not didn't play there in
the minors, but he did d H. So yeah, that's
that's what's interesting. So so really it's like we're talking
about what are we starting when we look at the
next four or five years. Who are the guys that
were like, Okay, I feel like they're gonna be there.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
So do you feel like there's a certain number that
has to be the No.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
I just I just think there's like a core of
like who are your guys that are your core? Like
you know, say, you know some of the last teams
you were on, the ones I were there, you know,
you're like, okay, Griffy done, trying to think who else? Yeah, Caseye,
those were guys were your core. But like and then
(16:03):
as they kind of got an older, case he got
moved on. There was a big deal. Aaron Boone, Yeah
moved on. I can't. I don't know if there were
any really starters while you were there that would have
been considered a core.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Ish just Harangue.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Yeah, yeah, and like even early he wasn't you didn't
think he was gonna be as big as uh picture
as he was.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
So right, Well, he came in the trade for Jose
Gian and they knew in the future that he would be.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
One of the guys.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
But yeah, a short time, you know, a couple of
years I played with them, it was just this is
a guy we got into trade.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
He's got great stuff.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Then he became one of those that we need this
guy four years, five years down the road. So looking
at this list, obviously, to me, I'm going straight to
the starting pitchers. Could you match these five guys? You
probably knew I was gonna do that.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Uh you know, No, I thought you'd start with Ellie
de la Cruz because it's Elle de la Cruz and
that's where I would start. But I get it, you're
a picture.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
I almost feel like Ellie's a given.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Yeah, like I should, like, we don't need any discussion
on Ellie.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Right wherever Ellie's gonna play, shortstop, third, whatever you decided
to do with Ellie's gonna be there.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
That's that's a given.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Well, he's gonna be playing in the majors. We hope
for the Rents at that point.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Yes, hopefully for the Reds forever, for his whole career.
But I look at this rotation and it reminds me
of the Land of Braves those days that they had
those guys, you know, Smoltz, Maddox, Glavin, and then the
number four guy was Steve Avery at the time, who
threw ninety eight from the left side, and not that
(17:49):
Andrew Abbott throws ninety eight, but he's a left handed
pitcher and they have him as a number four starter,
and he will only be thirty at that time. So
that's what's amazing about this whole list. I've seen a
lot of Chase Burns and Red Lauder covering them both
in college. Man, you haven't even seen the best of
them yet. And I know Chase went from starting a
(18:13):
little bit and showed some flashes of brilliance and then
they put them in the bullpen. He can do both,
but I think at the end of the day, whichever
one you wont him at, he's gonna dominate. He's gonna dominate.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
That's how good his stuff is. And we know Hunter
Green can be the ace of a staff his whole career.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Yeah, it's funny, like I'll go back sausage making. But
I remember, like pretty much everybody was stunned when the
Reds took Chase Burns too, because you know, everybody thought
it was gonna be Travis Pazana going and in Charlie
Condon going one two regardless, and the Reds went with Burns,
(18:54):
and there was a lot of like hoopla, And I
just remember you. You may have reached out to me,
or maybe I reached out to you. I think you
reached out to me, and you were just like, I
love this pick, and because you knew the guy, Like
what is it about Chase Burns that you saw that
that he is one of these core type guys.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
So before the draft that year, when the lottery went
and ended up they get the number two pick. Shortly
after that, I don't know if it was that day,
but shortly after that, I tweeted out that wouldn't it
be great if the Reds took Chase Burns at number two?
Speaker 1 (19:33):
And maybe that's what I saw, And then I went
after you, yeah, yeah, something like that, And then.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
You were the only one I talked to after that,
like you you were asking me about.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Him and yeah, I knew you saw him.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Yeah, this is a guy that obviously the stuff is there.
People have seen this stuff, the electric stuff that he has.
I know people were talking about his delivery, is it
too violent? Well, I felt like his delivery he finished
the same way every single time. He wasn't just wildly
out there throwing bad mechanics.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
I felt like.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Off the field, there's not many guys that are as
cool as and a big of a cheerleader as Chase
Burns was when he was at Wake Forest. And this
is obviously he was the ace the year that he
was there, but he was the first one on the
top of the step rooting for the next guy. And
when you have a guy of this stature who just
(20:30):
comes from Tennessee, where we know that they have a
different kind of aura in Tennessee, it's like, what are
you going to get out of this guy? Well, he
was the biggest cheerleader for his teammates, whether it was
a pitcher or whether it was a position player, he
was there.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Rooting them on.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
And it's tough to find guys that are supposed to
be big time Major leaguers that have that in them,
and he has it. He has it from the get go,
and great comes from a great family, military background. He's
grounded man, he's had a great foundation. So much good
from Chase Burns. And then you say, oh gosh, this
(21:05):
guy does throw one hundred miles an hour with a
nasty sider.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Wait, he throws one hundred miles an hour and the
fastball might be his second best pitch.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Yes, yes, exactly. And I just felt like at the
time it would be it would be a disaster if
they didn't take the best arm available. And I had,
like I saw a lot of Charlie Condon too. Yes,
he had great power and he hit for average that year,
but I don't know was he golden spikes he was, Yeah,
(21:35):
he was the best offensive player in college baseball right
at that time. But I just felt like, you cannot pass.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Up an arm like this, you know, especially for a
guy that you probably project as a left fielder with Condon. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
So are you going to pass up a guy who's
got an electric arm and could pitch and be an
ace for you for years, or you're gonna take a
guy that it might hit thirty to forty home runs?
Speaker 2 (22:02):
You know, I like the arms.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
So this gets to the Hunter Green talk because that
had been a hot topic this offseason. It's not something
I ever really wrote about because I didn't really think.
I didn't really believe it because it just it didn't
make sense to me. But that is where it is, Like,
I mean, Hunter Green, when you're talking about this, this franchise,
(22:29):
since they've moved to this ballpark, the two periods that
they've actually had success, they've done it was starting pitching,
you know that ten through twelve when you're Bronson Arroyo,
I mean Aaron Haring at the front, then Edison Volcz
and of course Johnny Quato and Matt Lados and Homer Bailey,
Like that's when you just had to have guys on
(22:52):
guys and I don't think, like, I don't know if
anybody in baseball really now goes, oh, well, we got
five starters, our work is done right.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
Yeah, you can't have enough good arms right now. And
the stuff that Chase Burns has. I don't know how
many starts he made throughout the season, but they knew
that his best availability at that particular time was putting
him in the bullpen, and he was able to do
it well because he's got a great arm and he's
got a great attitude, great mentality that he can do both.
(23:29):
But if you pass on him at the number two spot,
you don't have that luxury, you don't have that option.
You'd have to go find somebody else.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
So and then like getting back to Green, what is
it about Green as a pitcher that you see that
is so special that puts him in that upper echelon.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
So you tell me if I'm from looking from the outside,
if I'm off. But I feel like the first few
years he seemed like he was just kind of content
a little bit almost just Hey, I'm gonna go do
my job every fifth day and I'm gonna go give
innings and here it is, and you know, I'm just
(24:10):
gonna stay on and even keel the whole time. I
think it's great to stay on and even keel. But
I think I feel like this year you could see
fire coming from him. You can see more aggressiveness coming
from him. And what I mean by aggressiveness, he's attacking
the hitters and he's not like picking at the hitters anymore.
He's like thinking, this is my stuff and if you
(24:31):
can hit it, good for you. But you're probably not gonna.
Like I felt like this year was a complete different
mindset for him, and that's what makes him an ace
in my opinion. Of course, the stuff is fantastic, but
you get a guy with that stature in the mound
presence with stuff like that, good luck, right, good luck
(24:51):
to the hitters.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Right, and give the Reds credit for locking him up
longer term. Pretty early. That was yeah, at a time
when you know, there were a lot of questions about
what they were doing long term, and you know, the
front office said, hey, we've got this guy. And it
goes both ways, you know, like it would be silly
(25:12):
to think that they haven't had those discussions with Scott
Morris about Elie Da La Cruz or someone or other
other players in their in their in their system. They
do that all the time with agents, but and those
agents say yeah, we're open to it, and the player
has to tell the agent, hey, I'm open to I
would rather have the security than chasing a billion dollars.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
Yeah, oh yeah, because Hunter Hunter could have not taken
that deal and been worth a lot more, especially after
the year he had this year.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Yeah, And like like you said, I think the biggest
thing is is as he was when he was younger.
He had the great stuff, but he was like, oh,
I'm going to try to hit these corners. And I
think when you get to that the point where you
were confident enough in your stuff that you're going to
throw it and you're gonna throw it in the zone
(26:01):
and challenge guys in the zone. Yeah, And you saw
him challenge in the zone. And when you challenge in
the zone, you know what, you don't throw balls, which
means you throw fewer pitches, which means you stay in longer.
It's a I mean, it's pretty simple, right, Derek Johnson,
I'm coming for your job.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
I mean, yes, that that's perfectly said.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
It's thank you the guys.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
If you always your wordsmith did you always have.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Great wordsmith's and you're a Hall of Famer with two
home runs? Thank you?
Speaker 2 (26:36):
We compliment each other very well.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Here's the thing with Hunter Green, until he believed that
he could do it, we could tell him this every
single day. Derek Johnson can tell him this same thing
every single day until he tries to do it and realizes, oh,
that's actually a good formula.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
When you know, this is the kind of a question
when yeah, when did you realize that you were a
big league pitcher, and how does that kind of come
were that confidence? Because like, it's not when you first
step on that mound, because oh my god, when you're
first in that step on that mound, you probably have
talked to a lot of guys. Most of them are like,
(27:15):
Holy Molly, I'm here. But then there are guys who
were pitching in the big leagues. But then it takes
a little longer for most to say, I belong here.
What do you have an eye belong here moment?
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Yeah, it was, uh, Triple A. When I was playing
in Buffalo, I had a lot. This was back when
they always had a lot of veterans.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
They would have Actually, Triple A your time is a
lot different than Triple A now, totally totally, Like you
might have had a couple of prospects, but the rest
of them were old veteran guys as.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Insurance policies basically.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
And you know, nineteen ninety five I mentioned last episode.
I played with Tory Lavolo, who's now a manager. I
played with Billy Ripkin, Junior, Casey Candell.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Like we had a load of just older guys.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
So we finished that year in nineteen ninety five, I
made it all the way to Triple A. So the
next year, in ninety six, I start in Triple A.
Casey Kandell is still a teammate of mine, and he
told me that I have the ability to pitch a
long long time in the big leagues as long as
I stay healthy and stay on track. And from that
moment on, I felt like, this is a dude that's
(28:25):
seen a lot of baseball, Like his mom played for
the Women's Baseball League back in the day. He played
at that time. He was played for the Astros for
a while and then came to Cleveland, and I'm like,
this is a guy that has been around and he's
telling me that I have the ability to play major
league baseball for a long time. So then I was like, oh,
I got to make this happen. Like that was my
(28:47):
moment where I felt like, he's right. You know, I
shouldn't just think that I may get there. I have
to believe that I'm good enough to be there for
a long time. So I mean, aha, moment, I guess
all right.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
So getting back to the topic, I mean, like almost
that core is those at least those top four pitchers, right,
I mean yes, when I say cor it's gonna like
it's going to take a blockbuster to get these guys
away from me. And I'm probably gonna value them more
than you will.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
Yes, And you know Chase Petty, I know he's got
a lot of upside, but he's the guy I think
that you could lure another team to make.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
A trade easier.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
I'm gonna want the house if you're going to ask
for the top four starters.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Well, and then then we also have to point out
that Brady Singer's on a contract for next year too,
So like like that twenty twenty nine is not that
different than twenty twenty six, just right, just like that veteran.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
And Brady Singer's not an old goat either. Yeah, you
know he's got he's got some time still left now.
As far as position players, obviously, Ellie, I love what
Noel they Marte has turned into.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
I feel like putting him in right field made a
huge difference.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
I know. I think everybody you talked to and especially
even watching it, it did. It kind of relaxed him
and he he was able just to play again because
I think he got in his head in the infield
and in the outfield, he was able to play and
you saw just like natural baseball instincts takeover.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Yes, well that's.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
That's what happened to Fernando Tatis. And I'm not saying
that Marte is going to be that good of an outfielder,
but who would have thought, uh, Tatist Junior was going
to be the best right fielder in all of baseball.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Maybe maybe arguably the best.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
Defender right right because he was being a short stop.
He was okay, he wasn't like lights out.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Then they move him out there.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
Now he's the best outfielder every I mean.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
I'm stretching saying ever, I just that's how good he is.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
I mean, yeah, could be, could be. Yeah, this guy
was pretty good. You can't see there is clement.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Yeah yeah, but yeah, my.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
All time maybe my all time favorite player is like
besides George s Brett because that's a whole childhood thing, but.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
That's okay, but that's a good one too. Roberto Clemente
is a really good one.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
So yeah, and like, what were your other position guys?
Did did you would? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Salth Stewart, I think has to be one.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Did he show you enough in that short time? And
what makes that different than say Aristiini Sacchino or something
like that.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
So with a Keno, I think that a lot of
people could see that they're there are holes and he
wasn't able to make adjustments once they figured him out.
He was just a brute strength guy and if you
make a mistake, I'm going to crush it. But he
was You're able to pitch to him like very pitchable.
I think south Stewart is a better hitter all around.
(32:00):
He covers the plate, he's not He doesn't chase as
much as.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
A Kino would.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
So comparing the two of them, it's like, this guy
can only get better if he's this discipline right now.
Regardless of what he hits. We know he's got power,
we know he can hit for average. He's just going
to get better. Yes, they're going to make adjustments, but
he's able to make adjustments too. I just feel like
he's going to be a mainstay for quite some time.
(32:26):
He's he'll be twenty five in twenty twenty nine.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
That's crazy to have this young guy right now be
that good of a hitter.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
The funny thing with sal is two years ago in
spring training when he got cut he was crushed. He
thought he was making the team. Nobody else did, but
he did, and he was like just so mad and
he was and Tito talks about how mad he was
this year. So yeah, this guy's that's a good thing,
(33:00):
don't No, that's exactly what you want, right, Yeah, as
long as the reaction is okay, I'm going to show
you and I'm going to keep going out get there
supposed to. These guys don't know what they're talking about,
because we've seen that too.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
Oh plenty, plenty.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Yeah, because you've seen it, Like you didn't have like
you had good stuff, but you didn't have the greatest stuff.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
No, no, but back then, you didn't have to have
the best stuff to be successful or to make a team.
You just you had to have There was more to
being a successful big league player. And I'm not saying
that these things don't matter now, but I think you're
(33:42):
going to get a lot more chances if you have
really good stuff as a pitcher or if you have
really good.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Power as a hitter.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
Now, the only problem with that is you might get
the chances, but you're also a lot more expendable because
they can find the next guy that throws really hard
or can hit a lot of homers. Well, I mean
like when you like, he's great for the for the
clubhouse though.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Yeah, he's a good guy. He's kind of like that
little brother. Yeah, he's a good dude. People like him.
It's funny that you mentioned. And we'll go back to
the Ellie for just a second. When you were talking about,
you know what, one of the things you liked about
Chase Burns exact same Ellie Dale Cruz. Right before he
got called up. I went to to Louisville and I
(34:26):
was talking to some people there and I was talking
to an older guy who've been around the game for
quite a while, and I talked to him about Ellie
and then I said, okay, man turned off my recorder,
Like what do you think He's like, dude, this is
it's real. I'm like, yeah, even like you know, the
celebration all that he goes. Yeah, I love it because
(34:48):
he is the same guy at all times. Yeah, you know,
he's the he's the guy on the top step, whether
it's he's zero for four that day or four for four.
And he said, so it's great. I don't care because
that's him. It's genuine it's not a show. And we've
all seen guys who everybody thinks, oh man, that team's
(35:09):
really getting fired up behind that guy. And then.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Yeah, when things go bad, the where's that guy?
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Where's Yeah?
Speaker 3 (35:19):
Yeah, no, you could. You can see that. Like it's
not an act. It's it's very genuine.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
The guy, the kit, the guy a man, I mean whatever. Yeah,
Ellie da La Cruz loves baseball and that's bottom line.
Speaker 3 (35:32):
Yeah, and I see that in South Stewart too, Yes.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Oh god, yes, it's funny. Like I was thinking about it.
It's like we're talking about stuff. Andrew Abbott would have
been a stuff guy when you were playing. You guys
would have all been talking about his stuff. And now
he's like, oh yeah, soft tossing lefty.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
Yeah yeah, the soft tossing lefty that's dominating.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
See our soft top soft tossing lefties. Was like Jamie
Moyer that that was a soft tossing lefties. And Andrew
Abbott throws ten miles an hour harder than he did.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Yeah, all right, so your core you're going to add
any to those three of the marte I.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
Think Duno has got to be that guy too. I
mean all the stuff.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
Yeah, but I almost I'm almost thinking like this Duno
is a guy for the future because you can't count
on anybody at low a right. Well, and Tyler, he's
my untouchable prospect. Maybe you need to have those. You
definitely need to have those. Yes, I want to where
(36:41):
are you on Matt McClean.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
I love the kid man, I love how he plays,
I love wherever you play him.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
He's good.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
I know he struggled big time offensively this year, but
this is a guy that he's a grinder. You know,
He's one of those guys that when he's healthy, he
can go out there and he will battle to the end.
And just unfortunately he couldn't be on the field a lot.
And when he you know, he didn't seem like one
of those guys that made any excuses for when he
(37:12):
was not good.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
No, you know, no, like uh And and I think
he's a guy. I'm a big Matt McClain guy. I
think this was his offensive struggles were a lot of
just being out of whack from missing a year. The
shoulder still getting better. The thing with Matt McClain every day,
(37:35):
like if you put a heartbeat monitor on him during
a game. I don't know that it would ever get
up higher or lower, so.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
The game's not too fast for him. See, that's hard
to find, that really is, especially a middle infield guy.
Uh you know, a guy that could be top of
the order, middle of the order in the in the lineup.
That's that's hard to find, especially being younger guy.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
But you that. Yeah, I also think he could be
your center fielder long term. But he's a really good
defensive second basement. The thing about that is is say
Edwin Arroyo, maybe if he's hitting and he's coming up
and he's kind of your second baseman, you can.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
Move there and not knowing him like you do. But
I bet you he would do it.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
Oh yeah, I mean he played he played center in college.
Like he's just gonna play wherever. That was. That was
one of the best things I've ever like, one of
those things, like I felt like a scout. I think
a scout pointed this out to me first, so like
then I noticed it, So I can't even take it
as an original thing. But when they were in the
(38:46):
minors and Ellie and and Matt were trading off every day,
who was playing shortstop? So like Matt would play shortstop
and Ellie would play third. Ellie would play shortstop the
next day and Matt would play second. Yeah, like they
(39:07):
it didn't seem to be an issue to them, either
one of them. And that's rare. Shortstops don't like to
not be the shortstop.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
Short stops want to play shortstop.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
I bet you could go to Miguel Cabrera today and
he would tell you he's still a shortstop.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Yeah. Yeah, but he didn't.
Speaker 3 (39:33):
He played zero or I don't know how many games
he played.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
But yeah, but for Ellie.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
Well he did is a young player, yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:40):
Right, but then they moved him to third and then
the first outfield.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Yeah, and it got bigger. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
But Ellie like his first year up in Cincinnati, accepting
the third base role and playing it perfectly, you know,
knowing that he's a shortstop, but this is his way
to be in the lineup and play every day.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
You love guys like that.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
Yeah, And I think, and this isn't to say anything
about you know, this is not a judgment all. It's
like I think with noelv when he first moved over
to third and he was fine, he was like, Okay,
oh I can play here. But then it was like
it's not quite going right, and that just caused things
(40:25):
to go to to speed up on them. And we've
seen that before, Like I mean, heck we can we
can look at Adam duvall or you know in Kansas City,
Alex Gordon, you know, went from being a third baseman
that was up and down to the miners and having issues.
(40:46):
They put him in left field, and he's a gold
Glove left fielder. And I could see Noelvie Marte being
a gold Glove right fielder. Not while he's playing at
the same time as Fernando Tatis, but you know, like
gold gould caliber have his name in those three that
they announce.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
Yeah, I agree, I agree.
Speaker 3 (41:07):
One, you could see the comfort level and just trusting
his athleticism on balls in the outfield. I mean whatever
game that was that he made that one at the wall.
I don't know if you guys already had gotten into
the playoffs or that was.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
Yeah, it was just amazing to see they didn't get into.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
The playoffs until they had finished playing like five or
ten minutes after they finished playing the right Yeah. Yeah,
but yeah, so no, like I think that's and the
other thing is is, And it may sound contradictory to
what I just said, but like in the outfield, it
seemed like when he made a mistake, he was able
(41:48):
to like not let it affect him but use it
as a teaching tool, and he would try to like
figure that mistake out. And I think maybe that being
in an outfield was enough that it let him kind
of be like, Okay, I don't know it all yet.
I shouldn't be able to do that because I've never
taken these kind of balls, Whereas at third base, you're like,
(42:10):
I'm a short stop. I should be able to do.
Speaker 3 (42:12):
This, right, right, Well, what's the old cliche, right, don't
take your defense to you'r at bat? Like he said
to tell the kids that in a little league, and
it happens for big leaguers obviously. But yeah, that's the
best thing for him was just get him, get him
off that clay, get him out in the in the grass,
let him just be free.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
Yeah. I could always hit mad, but I couldn't feel mad.
Speaker 3 (42:37):
So yeah, well I could always relieve, but I couldn't start.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
Yeah, well you did it a little higher level than
the Conto Plain Athletic Association that I did. So I
don't think any of the competition there would have would
have caused your heart beat the race, not even me.
Maybe Jimmy though, well no, no Jimmy played. This was
(43:06):
a different place. I had moved all over the place,
so no, no, I wasn't playing that level of high
school baseball. I was Yeah, two time all weekue, which
tells you about the league.
Speaker 3 (43:18):
Yeah, I have faith in you, dude, don't tell me that.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
Come on, I was okay for my league.
Speaker 3 (43:28):
But it's good that we we're humble, humble, humble.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
I mean, if I had two home runs in the
Major as, I wouldn't be humble either, So well, good, Hey,
this was fun. Honestly, it feels like we just scratched
the surface. But we've already gone a little longer than
we were supposed to, so hey, yeah, how about that.
I'm gonna try to play around with graphics and everything
next time. This would have been much better if I
(43:55):
knew what I was doing. But you know, live and learn,
my friend.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
We'll figure it out and listen to each other.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
So it's good. I mean, I think we've had a
good time.
Speaker 3 (44:07):
So yeah, you know, hey, by the time the season starts,
maybe we'll have a couple of graphics up, but who knows.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
Yeah, so you know what, so this is kind of
we're getting there. You know, we want you to subscribe,
please if you could subscribe on YouTube or you know,
wherever you get your podcasts if you're more of an
audio person, if you don't want to, you know, see Danny,
well look at one beauty, still baby faced after all
(44:39):
these years. So you know, please subscribe to Riverfront Territory
on YouTube. We're trying to get to a thousand people.
Come on, we'll see I hope. So, uh, you know,
share it. Tell people if you're a Reds fan and
you like listening to Danny Graves and put up with
my crap, keep going. Yeah, review us, give us five stars.
(45:02):
I'm sensitive, so please don't do any word anymore any less,
I guess, and that would be just kind of great
for us. All so if you could subscribe, that's subscribe,
review five stars and yeah, that's that's the fun stuff.
So Riverfront Territory is part of the Foul Territory Network,
(45:24):
which is fun as well. So all sorts of great
stuff over there, Ken Rosenthal, so many other teams of
the podcasts where I think we got fifteen to thirty
covered including us. So the Foul Territory Network has has
you covered for baseball, And yeah, I think that's about it.
(45:44):
We'll see you next week. I'm C. Trent Rosecrans of
the Athletic and he is two time home run hitter
Danny Graves. Look at that.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
Ay, that was scary, wasn't it.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
I feel Chase Burns shaking in his boots in this
right moment. He's so glad it's the off season. He
doesn't have to see you, right, Thanks Danny, and thanks
for everybody who listened, watched good whatever. We love y'all
and the fine people in the Foul Territory Network.
Hello, Welcome once again to Riverfront terrorfor Territory on the
Foul Territory Network. I'm Sea Trent Rosecrans. I I am
a senior MLB writer for The Athletic, and he is
Danny Graves, who has two more Big League home runs
than I do.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
You got to it before I could even say anything.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
I know. I just figured i'd get it out of
the way.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Yeah, yeah, perfect, We're done for this episode of my
home run talk.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Obviously. Well, and the one in Houston went like two
hundred and eighty feet right right, but it still made
it over the defence was there. It's the same way,
like I mean, you were throwing in front of that fence, so.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Yeah, because I gave up some homers on that fence too,
so it's it's all equal.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Yeah, so good. I shouldn't just start everyone with the
Danny Graves baseball reference page up there, because I know
I'm going to like go back and find something because
it is. It is. It is a super fun game.
But this is what I do for fun.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
No, that's so much fun.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
And you last episode you actually made me very emotional
because I was completely off on my last ever big
league pitch yea, yeah, it was just a double, just
a double. That's a big difference.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Okay. So, oh, here's a good question. Besides your two
home ball or besides the two ballparks in Cincinnati, what
three stadiums did you give up the most home runs in?
(01:55):
And each was just five, so not that many.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Okay, So I would say Saint Louis.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Nopell gave up one in Saint Louis.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Seriously, Yeah, that's I can't imagine.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
And that was to hold on, don't tell me. I'll
figure that out in a second. Okay, Wriggly has to
be one of them.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Nope, Chicago Wriggly, you gave up a couple, but like
you gave up four in Wrigley.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Milwaukee Miller Park, that's four.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Oh my gosh, I love this stump gravy segment.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Yeah, oh my, I don't even I don't even know,
because I was pretty good in Dodger Stadium, pretty good
in Atlanta, Jesu, I can't even think now.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Pittsburgh, No, just three, This is a tough game.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Oh well, you've already mentioned one plus plus Pittsburgh. You
did well. You didn't give any up at three Rivers, So.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
I don't only I don't have I didn't have many
outings at three Rivers, I don't think.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Yeah, maybe a few.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Oh my gosh, Schay Stadium, Yes, okay, my last one
there was to David Bell, I believe, Okay, maybe or
maybe it was Todd Hilton, one of the two.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
One's a Hall of Famer, so.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Yeah, oh gosh, I can't even where else Cleveland, Cleveland four,
you're we've already talked about one.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
That has five or more.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Yeah, and there were division so it was Houston, Yeah,
not the No.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Ron or whatever it was in run at the time.
And then the other one is Bank one Ball or
in Arizona. You gave up five in Arizona.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
I should have known. Yeah, I should have known that.
I hated pitching there.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
I hated.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Oh yeah, it's it's it's kind of like not a
fun park, you know.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
No, no, And I can tell you Travis Leela, Junior Spivey,
and I don't know.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
I can't remember who else.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Okay, I found out who who hit? Who was the
one cardinal to hit a home run off of you?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Was it Renterrhea?
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Nope, Okay, I'll just say it. Merlin Anderson.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Well, yeah, he hit me out in Saint Louis and
in Cincinnati. I should have guessed. Yeah, but he was
like six for eight off me.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Really yeah, let's see every pitch that I was throwing though, Like.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Yeah, yeah, do you replace Todd Jones? Gave up with
oh yeah, he came in with the bases loaded in
two thousand and four in Saint Louis, replaced Todd Jones
who had loaded the bases. Uh. You guys were ahead
five to two, and we won't talk about anything after
(05:28):
that didn't end up?
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Well huh.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
You got Tony Romack who crowned out to end the
ending though, so you walked off without the man, well
with your team. So there's something.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
But the game didn't end or it did end.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
No, no, no, that was the It was in the
eighth Okay, oh wait, no, that's in Cincinnati. Shoot, I
had the wrong one. That was my bad. I it
I just saw Saint Louis. Okay, oh man, this is
great audio. Man, this is the people are just clamoring
(06:10):
to come back off this one. You're the hall. The
one you gave up in Saint Louis was to a
Hall of Famer, so you got that yep.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Yeah, it was a Grand Slam, was it?
Speaker 3 (06:22):
No?
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Oh, let's see it was home run Larry Walker, Reggie
Sanders scores, Marlon Anderson scores, Tony Womack scores. Yeah, hey,
but you got jeez, but you got a Hall of
Famer to get out of that ending pools No pooles
singled after Walker Homeward Uh, Scott Roland, Oh okay, flyball
(06:47):
to deep centerfield. Dude, this is awesome. I'm sorry, this
is just probably boring as hell for anybody watching, but.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
No listen though, I can tell you too. That was
two thousand and four.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
So Walker hits the Grand in two thousand and five,
beginning of the season. We're in Saint Louis and there's
bases loaded with one out.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Larry Walker's up.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
I intentionally walk Larry Walker to face Albert Pouhols. Yeah,
bases loaded, one out with the one run lead. He
is the first pitch to Joe Randa groundball, double play,
game over.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
We win.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
If Walker doesn't hit the Grand Slam the year before,
we don't intentionally walk him.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Yeah. Wow, that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Yeah, yeah, pretty crazy.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Yeah, that's crazy. So what we're going to talk about
today it's going to start with Baseball America came out
with its its top ten Reds prospects, so it's kind
of gonda even go through that. But it's a little
bit that I found kind of interesting off of that.
We'll start with prospects because, like I know, you haven't
gotten too deep into all the prospects, but so I'll
(07:50):
just do there. This is one through ten South Stewart. Uh.
We know Alfredo Duno, who was in low A last
year maybe had like some of the best strike zone
judgment in baseball, which is a good thing to start with.
And then he's just an extremely large individual with power
(08:11):
and some pretty decent speed, all good things, and he's
a catcher. Rhet Louder third, Tyson Lewis, shortstop, drafted two
years ago, had a really good first season. One of
the reasons they were able to they saw Sammy Staffura
is is able for them to be able to move
(08:32):
him in the in the deal that they they made
it the deal at the deadline. Steel Hall this year's
first round pick, Chase Petty. Ba's really high on Chase
Petty apparently, and I understand why quite honestly, didn't have
a great season. But the stuff is, it's part of
the growing process. To me, shortstop Edwin Arroyo, who actually
(08:53):
had a pretty good bounce back from shoulder surgery. So
I'll be interested to see that your after shoulder surgery,
how he does or after playing a year with it, Yeah,
because I think there's some you know that that surgery
can take two years to get over really And I
put that caveaut with with Matt McClain as well. Yeah,
(09:15):
and then eight is Cam Collier. Nine Hector Rodriguez, and
then ten is Starlin Torres who pitched in Arizona last
year and one of those guys that apparently has really
good command. And when you're nineteen and with good command,
that's pretty uh, that's pretty impressive.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
You shouldn't have good command when you're nineteen. You should
just have stuff.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Yeah, Yeah, you get stuff and then like you know,
like you're allowed to drink and then you're allowed to
have command at twenty one. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Yeah, So that's that's pretty impressive. A lot of good
names on this.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
List, man, it's pretty good. I mean, like Edwin Arroyo,
Like when that's your seven cam call all years your
eight and I think if you talk to people inside
the organization. I think they might have Hector Rodriguez higher
than this. Yeah, they really like Hector Rodriguez. He's a
guy who can just hit, you know, it's aggressive. But yeah, yeah,
(10:20):
I mean he's he'll be on the forty man here soon.
I I would be barring injury, of course, I mean
I think we always we should always use that as
a caveat or should maybe be understood. But barring injury,
I can't imagine not seeing him in twenty twenty six,
partially because he'll be on the forty man. They need
to protect him and Edwin Arroyo the same. Although I
(10:44):
think Hector, you know, Edwin Arroyo I think would get
up if they're middle dfield injuries, which there always can be,
so I would I would expect to see both of
those guys up this year. So yeah. And then but
what they do is they always do, is a projected
lineup for twenty twenty nine, which is a couple of
years down the line. And this is what I thought
(11:06):
was really interesting because the way they had it. I'll
go catch her through and they do a DH and
starters and closers. Catcher Alfredo Dono, first base Al Stewart
second base, Mount McLain third base, Edwin Royo shortstop, Elie
de la Cruz, leftfield, Tyson Lewis centerfield, Steel Hall right field,
Noelvie Marte, DHKM Collier, and then your rotation is Hunter Green,
(11:29):
Chase Burns, rut Lauder Inder, Rabbit, Chase Petty and closer
Luis May. So that's sixteen names, and ten of those
we've already seen at the big league level, which is
pretty impressive when you're looking that far out. But add
to that that, none of those guys, the ten that
have done when we're talking about, you know, three to
four years in the future, none of them will be
(11:51):
older than thirty. And your number four starter in this
situation just finished eighth and Cy Young voting in the
National League. Yeah, and Rabbit and was an All Star.
You have two guys who have been All Stars. There. Yeah,
there's some talent. So really kind of this is something
(12:12):
we've been talking about or leading up to as an
idea for a while, was what do you consider the
core of this team in this organization, Because when you're
making moves in the offseason and you're gonna have to
make some trades, probably when you're making those, you have
(12:34):
to look at your organization in the pieces that you
say okay, like they did with Sammy Stefero, where they
saw Tyson Lewis and Steel Hall kind of the same level.
You saw Ellie Dale Cruz, Edwin Arroyo ahead of him
in those at the higher levels and some other guys
in that same role. So that's when you go, okay,
(12:57):
we can cover this. We can send him out to
better our team. Now. He may be a very good
player in the future, and he has all the tools too. He's,
you know, a really highly regarded prospect for a reason. However,
that's a they have that position. I wouldn't say covered,
(13:17):
but you know, because you never have like you never
have enough shortstops or right handed starters, right like, right like,
if you're right handed and you're drafted, you were either
a shortstop or a right handed starter, right Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
And the shortstops there's, like we've seen, there's plenty of
them on the prospect list, but then on the twenty
nine projected lineup, there's only one shortstop that can play shortstop,
and right now it's Ellie. But the other shortstops are
moved to different positions because.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
You have five guys who were shortstops in the minors
and like primary shortstops and McClain, Arroyo, Lewis Hall, and
Marte the entire outfield, and that's what shortstops do, right,
shortstops moved elsewhere. Like I mean, Danny, tell me when
(14:10):
you were growing up all through high school, you were
the shortstop, right, No, I.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Wish I could say I was. But Central Florida we.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Had good baseball.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Oh yeah, yeah we had. We had a lot of
good prospects.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
So so you like the shortstops you played with who
were playing shortstop, and so you also probably played college
baseball and pro bas fall and all that.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Yes, yes, a lot of them went got scholarships to
go play college baseball. So like I really had no
chance to play before the high school. Yes, I played shortstop,
and yeah and post career, I played shortstop whenever I
mess around with older guys because I think I could
play shortstop. But yes, that's where the great athletes go.
(14:53):
And I realized that wasn't a great athlete, so I stopped.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
But we even talked about that last time, Like your
old teammate and my old teammate Jimmy Anderson was a
short step when we were kids because we're the best players,
or he was the best player, I was not. Yeah,
even though he's left handed.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Well, but yeah, yes he was.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Oh yeah, so he did not didn't play there in
the minors, but he did d H. So yeah, that's
that's what's interesting. So so really it's like we're talking
about what are we starting when we look at the
next four or five years. Who are the guys that
were like, Okay, I feel like they're gonna be there.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
So do you feel like there's a certain number that
has to be the No.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
I just I just think there's like a core of
like who are your guys that are your core? Like
you know, say, you know some of the last teams
you were on, the ones I were there, you know,
you're like, okay, Griffy done, trying to think who else? Yeah, Caseye,
those were guys were your core. But like and then
(16:03):
as they kind of got an older, case he got
moved on. There was a big deal. Aaron Boone, Yeah
moved on. I can't. I don't know if there were
any really starters while you were there that would have
been considered a core.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Ish just Harangue.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Yeah, yeah, and like even early he wasn't you didn't
think he was gonna be as big as uh picture
as he was.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
So right, Well, he came in the trade for Jose
Gian and they knew in the future that he would be.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
One of the guys.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
But yeah, a short time, you know, a couple of
years I played with them, it was just this is
a guy we got into trade.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
He's got great stuff.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Then he became one of those that we need this
guy four years, five years down the road. So looking
at this list, obviously, to me, I'm going straight to
the starting pitchers. Could you match these five guys? You
probably knew I was gonna do that.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Uh you know, No, I thought you'd start with Ellie
de la Cruz because it's Elle de la Cruz and
that's where I would start. But I get it, you're
a picture.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
I almost feel like Ellie's a given.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Yeah, like I should, like, we don't need any discussion
on Ellie.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Right wherever Ellie's gonna play, shortstop, third, whatever you decided
to do with Ellie's gonna be there.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
That's that's a given.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Well, he's gonna be playing in the majors. We hope
for the Rents at that point.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Yes, hopefully for the Reds forever, for his whole career.
But I look at this rotation and it reminds me
of the Land of Braves those days that they had
those guys, you know, Smoltz, Maddox, Glavin, and then the
number four guy was Steve Avery at the time, who
threw ninety eight from the left side, and not that
(17:49):
Andrew Abbott throws ninety eight, but he's a left handed
pitcher and they have him as a number four starter,
and he will only be thirty at that time. So
that's what's amazing about this whole list. I've seen a
lot of Chase Burns and Red Lauder covering them both
in college. Man, you haven't even seen the best of
them yet. And I know Chase went from starting a
(18:13):
little bit and showed some flashes of brilliance and then
they put them in the bullpen. He can do both,
but I think at the end of the day, whichever
one you wont him at, he's gonna dominate. He's gonna dominate.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
That's how good his stuff is. And we know Hunter
Green can be the ace of a staff his whole career.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Yeah, it's funny, like I'll go back sausage making. But
I remember, like pretty much everybody was stunned when the
Reds took Chase Burns too, because you know, everybody thought
it was gonna be Travis Pazana going and in Charlie
Condon going one two regardless, and the Reds went with Burns,
(18:54):
and there was a lot of like hoopla, And I
just remember you. You may have reached out to me,
or maybe I reached out to you. I think you
reached out to me, and you were just like, I
love this pick, and because you knew the guy, Like
what is it about Chase Burns that you saw that
that he is one of these core type guys.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
So before the draft that year, when the lottery went
and ended up they get the number two pick. Shortly
after that, I don't know if it was that day,
but shortly after that, I tweeted out that wouldn't it
be great if the Reds took Chase Burns at number two?
Speaker 1 (19:33):
And maybe that's what I saw, And then I went
after you, yeah, yeah, something like that, And then.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
You were the only one I talked to after that,
like you you were asking me about.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Him and yeah, I knew you saw him.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Yeah, this is a guy that obviously the stuff is there.
People have seen this stuff, the electric stuff that he has.
I know people were talking about his delivery, is it
too violent? Well, I felt like his delivery he finished
the same way every single time. He wasn't just wildly
out there throwing bad mechanics.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
I felt like.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Off the field, there's not many guys that are as
cool as and a big of a cheerleader as Chase
Burns was when he was at Wake Forest. And this
is obviously he was the ace the year that he
was there, but he was the first one on the
top of the step rooting for the next guy. And
when you have a guy of this stature who just
(20:30):
comes from Tennessee, where we know that they have a
different kind of aura in Tennessee, it's like, what are
you going to get out of this guy? Well, he
was the biggest cheerleader for his teammates, whether it was
a pitcher or whether it was a position player, he
was there.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Rooting them on.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
And it's tough to find guys that are supposed to
be big time Major leaguers that have that in them,
and he has it. He has it from the get go,
and great comes from a great family, military background. He's
grounded man, he's had a great foundation. So much good
from Chase Burns. And then you say, oh gosh, this
(21:05):
guy does throw one hundred miles an hour with a
nasty sider.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Wait, he throws one hundred miles an hour and the
fastball might be his second best pitch.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Yes, yes, exactly. And I just felt like at the
time it would be it would be a disaster if
they didn't take the best arm available. And I had,
like I saw a lot of Charlie Condon too. Yes,
he had great power and he hit for average that year,
but I don't know was he golden spikes he was, Yeah,
(21:35):
he was the best offensive player in college baseball right
at that time. But I just felt like, you cannot pass.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Up an arm like this, you know, especially for a
guy that you probably project as a left fielder with Condon. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
So are you going to pass up a guy who's
got an electric arm and could pitch and be an
ace for you for years, or you're gonna take a
guy that it might hit thirty to forty home runs?
Speaker 2 (22:02):
You know, I like the arms.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
So this gets to the Hunter Green talk because that
had been a hot topic this offseason. It's not something
I ever really wrote about because I didn't really think.
I didn't really believe it because it just it didn't
make sense to me. But that is where it is, Like,
I mean, Hunter Green, when you're talking about this, this franchise,
(22:29):
since they've moved to this ballpark, the two periods that
they've actually had success, they've done it was starting pitching,
you know that ten through twelve when you're Bronson Arroyo,
I mean Aaron Haring at the front, then Edison Volcz
and of course Johnny Quato and Matt Lados and Homer Bailey,
Like that's when you just had to have guys on
(22:52):
guys and I don't think, like, I don't know if
anybody in baseball really now goes, oh, well, we got
five starters, our work is done right.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
Yeah, you can't have enough good arms right now. And
the stuff that Chase Burns has. I don't know how
many starts he made throughout the season, but they knew
that his best availability at that particular time was putting
him in the bullpen, and he was able to do
it well because he's got a great arm and he's
got a great attitude, great mentality that he can do both.
(23:29):
But if you pass on him at the number two spot,
you don't have that luxury, you don't have that option.
You'd have to go find somebody else.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
So and then like getting back to Green, what is
it about Green as a pitcher that you see that
is so special that puts him in that upper echelon.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
So you tell me if I'm from looking from the outside,
if I'm off. But I feel like the first few
years he seemed like he was just kind of content
a little bit almost just Hey, I'm gonna go do
my job every fifth day and I'm gonna go give
innings and here it is, and you know, I'm just
(24:10):
gonna stay on and even keel the whole time. I
think it's great to stay on and even keel. But
I think I feel like this year you could see
fire coming from him. You can see more aggressiveness coming
from him. And what I mean by aggressiveness, he's attacking
the hitters and he's not like picking at the hitters anymore.
He's like thinking, this is my stuff and if you
(24:31):
can hit it, good for you. But you're probably not gonna.
Like I felt like this year was a complete different
mindset for him, and that's what makes him an ace
in my opinion. Of course, the stuff is fantastic, but
you get a guy with that stature in the mound
presence with stuff like that, good luck, right, good luck
(24:51):
to the hitters.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Right, and give the Reds credit for locking him up
longer term. Pretty early. That was yeah, at a time
when you know, there were a lot of questions about
what they were doing long term, and you know, the
front office said, hey, we've got this guy. And it
goes both ways, you know, like it would be silly
(25:12):
to think that they haven't had those discussions with Scott
Morris about Elie Da La Cruz or someone or other
other players in their in their in their system. They
do that all the time with agents, but and those
agents say yeah, we're open to it, and the player
has to tell the agent, hey, I'm open to I
would rather have the security than chasing a billion dollars.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
Yeah, oh yeah, because Hunter Hunter could have not taken
that deal and been worth a lot more, especially after
the year he had this year.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Yeah, And like like you said, I think the biggest
thing is is as he was when he was younger.
He had the great stuff, but he was like, oh,
I'm going to try to hit these corners. And I
think when you get to that the point where you
were confident enough in your stuff that you're going to
throw it and you're gonna throw it in the zone
(26:01):
and challenge guys in the zone. Yeah, And you saw
him challenge in the zone. And when you challenge in
the zone, you know what, you don't throw balls, which
means you throw fewer pitches, which means you stay in longer.
It's a I mean, it's pretty simple, right, Derek Johnson,
I'm coming for your job.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
I mean, yes, that that's perfectly said.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
It's thank you the guys.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
If you always your wordsmith did you always have.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Great wordsmith's and you're a Hall of Famer with two
home runs? Thank you?
Speaker 2 (26:36):
We compliment each other very well.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Here's the thing with Hunter Green, until he believed that
he could do it, we could tell him this every
single day. Derek Johnson can tell him this same thing
every single day until he tries to do it and realizes, oh,
that's actually a good formula.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
When you know, this is the kind of a question
when yeah, when did you realize that you were a
big league pitcher, and how does that kind of come
were that confidence? Because like, it's not when you first
step on that mound, because oh my god, when you're
first in that step on that mound, you probably have
talked to a lot of guys. Most of them are like,
(27:15):
Holy Molly, I'm here. But then there are guys who
were pitching in the big leagues. But then it takes
a little longer for most to say, I belong here.
What do you have an eye belong here moment?
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Yeah, it was, uh, Triple A. When I was playing
in Buffalo, I had a lot. This was back when
they always had a lot of veterans.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
They would have Actually, Triple A your time is a
lot different than Triple A now, totally totally, Like you
might have had a couple of prospects, but the rest
of them were old veteran guys as.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Insurance policies basically.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
And you know, nineteen ninety five I mentioned last episode.
I played with Tory Lavolo, who's now a manager. I
played with Billy Ripkin, Junior, Casey Candell.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Like we had a load of just older guys.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
So we finished that year in nineteen ninety five, I
made it all the way to Triple A. So the
next year, in ninety six, I start in Triple A.
Casey Kandell is still a teammate of mine, and he
told me that I have the ability to pitch a
long long time in the big leagues as long as
I stay healthy and stay on track. And from that
moment on, I felt like, this is a dude that's
(28:25):
seen a lot of baseball, Like his mom played for
the Women's Baseball League back in the day. He played
at that time. He was played for the Astros for
a while and then came to Cleveland, and I'm like,
this is a guy that has been around and he's
telling me that I have the ability to play major
league baseball for a long time. So then I was like, oh,
I got to make this happen. Like that was my
(28:47):
moment where I felt like, he's right. You know, I
shouldn't just think that I may get there. I have
to believe that I'm good enough to be there for
a long time. So I mean, aha, moment, I guess
all right.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
So getting back to the topic, I mean, like almost
that core is those at least those top four pitchers, right,
I mean yes, when I say cor it's gonna like
it's going to take a blockbuster to get these guys
away from me. And I'm probably gonna value them more
than you will.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
Yes, And you know Chase Petty, I know he's got
a lot of upside, but he's the guy I think
that you could lure another team to make.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
A trade easier.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
I'm gonna want the house if you're going to ask
for the top four starters.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Well, and then then we also have to point out
that Brady Singer's on a contract for next year too,
So like like that twenty twenty nine is not that
different than twenty twenty six, just right, just like that veteran.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
And Brady Singer's not an old goat either. Yeah, you
know he's got he's got some time still left now.
As far as position players, obviously, Ellie, I love what
Noel they Marte has turned into.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
I feel like putting him in right field made a
huge difference.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
I know. I think everybody you talked to and especially
even watching it, it did. It kind of relaxed him
and he he was able just to play again because
I think he got in his head in the infield
and in the outfield, he was able to play and
you saw just like natural baseball instincts takeover.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Yes, well that's.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
That's what happened to Fernando Tatis. And I'm not saying
that Marte is going to be that good of an outfielder,
but who would have thought, uh, Tatist Junior was going
to be the best right fielder in all of baseball.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Maybe maybe arguably the best.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
Defender right right because he was being a short stop.
He was okay, he wasn't like lights out.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Then they move him out there.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
Now he's the best outfielder every I mean.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
I'm stretching saying ever, I just that's how good he is.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
I mean, yeah, could be, could be. Yeah, this guy
was pretty good. You can't see there is clement.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Yeah yeah, but yeah, my.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
All time maybe my all time favorite player is like
besides George s Brett because that's a whole childhood thing, but.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
That's okay, but that's a good one too. Roberto Clemente
is a really good one.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
So yeah, and like, what were your other position guys?
Did did you would? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Salth Stewart, I think has to be one.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Did he show you enough in that short time? And
what makes that different than say Aristiini Sacchino or something
like that.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
So with a Keno, I think that a lot of
people could see that they're there are holes and he
wasn't able to make adjustments once they figured him out.
He was just a brute strength guy and if you
make a mistake, I'm going to crush it. But he
was You're able to pitch to him like very pitchable.
I think south Stewart is a better hitter all around.
(32:00):
He covers the plate, he's not He doesn't chase as
much as.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
A Kino would.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
So comparing the two of them, it's like, this guy
can only get better if he's this discipline right now.
Regardless of what he hits. We know he's got power,
we know he can hit for average. He's just going
to get better. Yes, they're going to make adjustments, but
he's able to make adjustments too. I just feel like
he's going to be a mainstay for quite some time.
(32:26):
He's he'll be twenty five in twenty twenty nine.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
That's crazy to have this young guy right now be
that good of a hitter.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
The funny thing with sal is two years ago in
spring training when he got cut he was crushed. He
thought he was making the team. Nobody else did, but
he did, and he was like just so mad and
he was and Tito talks about how mad he was
this year. So yeah, this guy's that's a good thing,
(33:00):
don't No, that's exactly what you want, right, Yeah, as
long as the reaction is okay, I'm going to show
you and I'm going to keep going out get there
supposed to. These guys don't know what they're talking about,
because we've seen that too.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
Oh plenty, plenty.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Yeah, because you've seen it, Like you didn't have like
you had good stuff, but you didn't have the greatest stuff.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
No, no, but back then, you didn't have to have
the best stuff to be successful or to make a team.
You just you had to have There was more to
being a successful big league player. And I'm not saying
that these things don't matter now, but I think you're
(33:42):
going to get a lot more chances if you have
really good stuff as a pitcher or if you have
really good.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Power as a hitter.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
Now, the only problem with that is you might get
the chances, but you're also a lot more expendable because
they can find the next guy that throws really hard
or can hit a lot of homers. Well, I mean
like when you like, he's great for the for the
clubhouse though.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Yeah, he's a good guy. He's kind of like that
little brother. Yeah, he's a good dude. People like him.
It's funny that you mentioned. And we'll go back to
the Ellie for just a second. When you were talking about,
you know what, one of the things you liked about
Chase Burns exact same Ellie Dale Cruz. Right before he
got called up. I went to to Louisville and I
(34:26):
was talking to some people there and I was talking
to an older guy who've been around the game for
quite a while, and I talked to him about Ellie
and then I said, okay, man turned off my recorder,
Like what do you think He's like, dude, this is
it's real. I'm like, yeah, even like you know, the
celebration all that he goes. Yeah, I love it because
(34:48):
he is the same guy at all times. Yeah, you know,
he's the he's the guy on the top step, whether
it's he's zero for four that day or four for four.
And he said, so it's great. I don't care because
that's him. It's genuine it's not a show. And we've
all seen guys who everybody thinks, oh man, that team's
(35:09):
really getting fired up behind that guy. And then.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Yeah, when things go bad, the where's that guy?
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Where's Yeah?
Speaker 3 (35:19):
Yeah, no, you could. You can see that. Like it's
not an act. It's it's very genuine.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
The guy, the kit, the guy a man, I mean whatever. Yeah,
Ellie da La Cruz loves baseball and that's bottom line.
Speaker 3 (35:32):
Yeah, and I see that in South Stewart too, Yes.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Oh god, yes, it's funny. Like I was thinking about it.
It's like we're talking about stuff. Andrew Abbott would have
been a stuff guy when you were playing. You guys
would have all been talking about his stuff. And now
he's like, oh yeah, soft tossing lefty.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
Yeah yeah, the soft tossing lefty that's dominating.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
See our soft top soft tossing lefties. Was like Jamie
Moyer that that was a soft tossing lefties. And Andrew
Abbott throws ten miles an hour harder than he did.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Yeah, all right, so your core you're going to add
any to those three of the marte I.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
Think Duno has got to be that guy too. I
mean all the stuff.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
Yeah, but I almost I'm almost thinking like this Duno
is a guy for the future because you can't count
on anybody at low a right. Well, and Tyler, he's
my untouchable prospect. Maybe you need to have those. You
definitely need to have those. Yes, I want to where
(36:41):
are you on Matt McClean.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
I love the kid man, I love how he plays,
I love wherever you play him.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
He's good.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
I know he struggled big time offensively this year, but
this is a guy that he's a grinder. You know,
He's one of those guys that when he's healthy, he
can go out there and he will battle to the end.
And just unfortunately he couldn't be on the field a lot.
And when he you know, he didn't seem like one
of those guys that made any excuses for when he
(37:12):
was not good.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
No, you know, no, like uh And and I think
he's a guy. I'm a big Matt McClain guy. I
think this was his offensive struggles were a lot of
just being out of whack from missing a year. The
shoulder still getting better. The thing with Matt McClain every day,
(37:35):
like if you put a heartbeat monitor on him during
a game. I don't know that it would ever get
up higher or lower, so.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
The game's not too fast for him. See, that's hard
to find, that really is, especially a middle infield guy.
Uh you know, a guy that could be top of
the order, middle of the order in the in the lineup.
That's that's hard to find, especially being younger guy.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
But you that. Yeah, I also think he could be
your center fielder long term. But he's a really good
defensive second basement. The thing about that is is say
Edwin Arroyo, maybe if he's hitting and he's coming up
and he's kind of your second baseman, you can.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
Move there and not knowing him like you do. But
I bet you he would do it.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
Oh yeah, I mean he played he played center in college.
Like he's just gonna play wherever. That was. That was
one of the best things I've ever like, one of
those things, like I felt like a scout. I think
a scout pointed this out to me first, so like
then I noticed it, So I can't even take it
as an original thing. But when they were in the
(38:46):
minors and Ellie and and Matt were trading off every day,
who was playing shortstop? So like Matt would play shortstop
and Ellie would play third. Ellie would play shortstop the
next day and Matt would play second. Yeah, like they
(39:07):
it didn't seem to be an issue to them, either
one of them. And that's rare. Shortstops don't like to
not be the shortstop.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
Short stops want to play shortstop.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
I bet you could go to Miguel Cabrera today and
he would tell you he's still a shortstop.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Yeah. Yeah, but he didn't.
Speaker 3 (39:33):
He played zero or I don't know how many games
he played.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
But yeah, but for Ellie.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
Well he did is a young player, yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:40):
Right, but then they moved him to third and then
the first outfield.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Yeah, and it got bigger. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
But Ellie like his first year up in Cincinnati, accepting
the third base role and playing it perfectly, you know,
knowing that he's a shortstop, but this is his way
to be in the lineup and play every day.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
You love guys like that.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
Yeah, And I think, and this isn't to say anything
about you know, this is not a judgment all. It's
like I think with noelv when he first moved over
to third and he was fine, he was like, Okay,
oh I can play here. But then it was like
it's not quite going right, and that just caused things
(40:25):
to go to to speed up on them. And we've
seen that before, Like I mean, heck we can we
can look at Adam duvall or you know in Kansas City,
Alex Gordon, you know, went from being a third baseman
that was up and down to the miners and having issues.
(40:46):
They put him in left field, and he's a gold
Glove left fielder. And I could see Noelvie Marte being
a gold Glove right fielder. Not while he's playing at
the same time as Fernando Tatis, but you know, like
gold gould caliber have his name in those three that
they announce.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
Yeah, I agree, I agree.
Speaker 3 (41:07):
One, you could see the comfort level and just trusting
his athleticism on balls in the outfield. I mean whatever
game that was that he made that one at the wall.
I don't know if you guys already had gotten into
the playoffs or that was.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
Yeah, it was just amazing to see they didn't get into.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
The playoffs until they had finished playing like five or
ten minutes after they finished playing the right Yeah. Yeah,
but yeah, so no, like I think that's and the
other thing is is, And it may sound contradictory to
what I just said, but like in the outfield, it
seemed like when he made a mistake, he was able
(41:48):
to like not let it affect him but use it
as a teaching tool, and he would try to like
figure that mistake out. And I think maybe that being
in an outfield was enough that it let him kind
of be like, Okay, I don't know it all yet.
I shouldn't be able to do that because I've never
taken these kind of balls, Whereas at third base, you're like,
(42:10):
I'm a short stop. I should be able to do.
Speaker 3 (42:12):
This, right, right, Well, what's the old cliche, right, don't
take your defense to you'r at bat? Like he said
to tell the kids that in a little league, and
it happens for big leaguers obviously. But yeah, that's the
best thing for him was just get him, get him
off that clay, get him out in the in the grass,
let him just be free.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
Yeah. I could always hit mad, but I couldn't feel mad.
Speaker 3 (42:37):
So yeah, well I could always relieve, but I couldn't start.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
Yeah, well you did it a little higher level than
the Conto Plain Athletic Association that I did. So I
don't think any of the competition there would have would
have caused your heart beat the race, not even me.
Maybe Jimmy though, well no, no Jimmy played. This was
(43:06):
a different place. I had moved all over the place,
so no, no, I wasn't playing that level of high
school baseball. I was Yeah, two time all weekue, which
tells you about the league.
Speaker 3 (43:18):
Yeah, I have faith in you, dude, don't tell me that.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
Come on, I was okay for my league.
Speaker 3 (43:28):
But it's good that we we're humble, humble, humble.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
I mean, if I had two home runs in the
Major as, I wouldn't be humble either, So well, good, Hey,
this was fun. Honestly, it feels like we just scratched
the surface. But we've already gone a little longer than
we were supposed to, so hey, yeah, how about that.
I'm gonna try to play around with graphics and everything
next time. This would have been much better if I
(43:55):
knew what I was doing. But you know, live and learn,
my friend.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
We'll figure it out and listen to each other.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
So it's good. I mean, I think we've had a
good time.
Speaker 3 (44:07):
So yeah, you know, hey, by the time the season starts,
maybe we'll have a couple of graphics up, but who knows.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
Yeah, so you know what, so this is kind of
we're getting there. You know, we want you to subscribe,
please if you could subscribe on YouTube or you know,
wherever you get your podcasts if you're more of an
audio person, if you don't want to, you know, see Danny,
well look at one beauty, still baby faced after all
(44:39):
these years. So you know, please subscribe to Riverfront Territory
on YouTube. We're trying to get to a thousand people.
Come on, we'll see I hope. So, uh, you know,
share it. Tell people if you're a Reds fan and
you like listening to Danny Graves and put up with
my crap, keep going. Yeah, review us, give us five stars.
(45:02):
I'm sensitive, so please don't do any word anymore any less,
I guess, and that would be just kind of great
for us. All so if you could subscribe, that's subscribe,
review five stars and yeah, that's that's the fun stuff.
So Riverfront Territory is part of the Foul Territory Network,
(45:24):
which is fun as well. So all sorts of great
stuff over there, Ken Rosenthal, so many other teams of
the podcasts where I think we got fifteen to thirty
covered including us. So the Foul Territory Network has has
you covered for baseball, And yeah, I think that's about it.
(45:44):
We'll see you next week. I'm C. Trent Rosecrans of
the Athletic and he is two time home run hitter
Danny Graves. Look at that.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
Ay, that was scary, wasn't it.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
I feel Chase Burns shaking in his boots in this
right moment. He's so glad it's the off season. He
doesn't have to see you, right, Thanks Danny, and thanks
for everybody who listened, watched good whatever. We love y'all
and the fine people in the Foul Territory Network.
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