November 11, 2025 • 39 mins
Danny Graves and C. Trent Rosecrans reflect on Cincinnati Reds manager Terry Francona's first season in Cinci. Danny recalls his favorite manager of all-time, while the duo swaps favorite skipper stories. Plus, hear Danny's shock to learn his last pitch in the Big Leagues wasn't a home run!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
How about that For a little jaunty intro, I'm C.
Trent Rosecrans. This is Riverfront Territory on the Foul Territory Network.
I am here once again, once again as always, maybe
actually say as always for episode two of this show.
Danny Graves, Red's Hall of Fame member, all time leading
(00:30):
saves leader in Red's history. Both of those things are
germane to what we will talk about in a little bit.
But Danny, welcome once again. Thanks for being with us,
and I guess co hosting. So I don't thank you,
do I?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Or are we just like, yes, we can thank each other.
That's very polite of both of us, and we I think.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Both of us are known for that. Or well one
of us is.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
We need to work on our man we need to
work on manners.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Oh yeah, yeah, that's true. That's true. We can always
do that. We can always be better, right Danny, That's right. So,
uh yeah, welcome to Riverfront Territory, a show about the
Cincinnati Reds on the Foul Territory Network. You know, we're
we're smack dab in the middle of off season, uh stuff.
Thursday is the day that free agency technically begins. Uh well,
(01:24):
real free agency because there's a five day window where
teams can negotiate with their own players. But like for
for obvious reasons like that just doesn't like it. You know,
if you're going to be a free agent, you want
to see what the market bears, right, and unless you're
(01:44):
just like no, this is where I want to be regardless.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Well, like Shane Bieber actually said, he just I just
want to stay in Toronto, So that's what we're going
to do.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
I guess it was his option that he picked up.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
But yeah, those five days usually just a phone call
say okay, well we're we'll see you guys after the
five days are over, and then we'll talk again at
some point later on.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
But thanks talk to you later. By how much?
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Because because you were in free agency, right, you got
to that level?
Speaker 3 (02:11):
No? I?
Speaker 2 (02:12):
I well when I after I sucked and got released,
that's when I became free agents. But as far as
like becoming a free agent with time, thankfully, I signed
a three year deal a year before my free agency.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
So yeah, okay, yeah, so like even going into there,
so there are some guys who are arbitration eligible and
kind of there, what was that discussion like with your agent.
When did they come to.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
You so well with arbitration.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
It really wasn't until like around the Winter meetings in
December when we even heard from them, And uh yeah,
that's when the the love hate relationship really started to
turn into a hate relationship. And that's when I really, yeah,
that's when I felt like, oh my gosh, why do
they even want me?
Speaker 3 (03:03):
If they think all these bad things about me?
Speaker 2 (03:06):
And like that, you don't want to pay me this
amount of money because this and this and this, Well,
why do they want me? Well, that's just part of
the arbitration process to try to make you not look
as good to the arbitrators in case they have to
make this decision. And it's a it's a terrible feeling, dude,
It's it's awful. It's like you go to the arbitration yes, yes,
(03:27):
oh man. Yeah, And thankfully mine wasn't as vicious and
violent as some others. Jim Bowden was the GM at
the time, and he wasn't in there. Doc Rogers was
the assistant GM then and he sat in there and
Doc was such a nice guy. It was hard for
(03:49):
hard for him to say any bad stuff, so like
he was trying to plead their case, and he did
good enough because they won the arbitration.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
I lost.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
But so that's actually kind of like best case scenario
in that situation that you had someone like Doc, because
we both know Doc or knew Doc. Yeah, God rest
his soul. What a what a kind gentle man. Uh
just I can't see him like trying to just destroy
anybody because he has such he was such such a
(04:21):
good dude.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
He was he was And you know, I didn't know
that Doc was going to be in the arbitration with us.
I thought Jim was coming, so I prepared, and.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
We all know Jim.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Jim could get feisty, and uh, I was prepared to
just hold everything in and not say anything, not not
fight back or look angry. And then I saw Doc
and I would just kind of had this like big
sigh of relief, and uh, it was it was nice
that I had him. I feel bad for other guys
that didn't have to have to or get to have
(04:55):
him through this process. But it's still it's still not
not fun, but it's part of you know, I say
that I lost arbitration, but I still got a huge
jump in my salary.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Yeah, And that's a big part of this. When we
were talking about payroll and et cetera, Nitkrawl saying that
it'll probably be around the same as it was last year.
So that's one hundred and you know, fifteen one hundred
and sixteen something like that million dollar payroll. A lot
of it's going to be taken up by They have
eleven guys an ARB and so what's really tough there
(05:31):
when you're trying to make all these decisions is there's
no certainty yet, and that's why you kind of want
to get some of those ARB cases done like quickly,
just so you know what you're dealing with and what
kind of room you have in your budget.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Right, you would think that they would want to get
it done asap so that whatever they have left they
go out and try to get what they need. But
I don't know why it's different now than it was then,
because I just feel like it was just.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
A waiting game. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
We we pretty much waited until close to the very end.
We were negotiating right until the day before I left
spring training to go to arbitration. So but yeah, I
would think that you would want to get both sides
would want to get something done as quick as possible.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Yeah, and I think actually that is why a lot
of teams, including the Reds I believe, are still a
file and trial team, which says like, once you file
and what is that date? That's in January though, I mean,
so it's a pretty it's pretty late. Yeah, it's last
data exchange is going to be January eighth, So that's
still that's that's that's pretty late. Yeah, but it usually
(06:42):
does go down to that time. Yeah, so that's really
tough because it could it could change things now. You know,
usually the numbers aren't so far off that it's gonna,
you know, surprise anyone.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Right, right, And it's amazing how how close you get
before you actually get to that that meeting point. You
know that because usually it happens before you go to arbitration.
Not not a whole lot of guys end up going
to arbitration. But yeah, the numbers are close, and sometimes
it's like, okay, we're fighting over for example, two million,
(07:20):
you want to give me two point five?
Speaker 3 (07:22):
No, I want three million.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
It's just I know, five hundred thousand dollars is a lot,
but you know, in this game, that's not worth burning
Bridges right.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Right, So yeah, so the looking ahead, like those guys,
Brady Singer, he's gonna he's gonna make a good chunk,
well deserved. Man, what a crazy season he had. Yeah,
Tyler Stevenson is a third year guy. And the way
this works is the you know through those, the more
times you go through this, the more you're gonna make
(07:54):
because you kind of get a bump. I mean, like,
nobody gets a cut and an arbitration right.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
The only way you get a cut is if they
cut you right and then get that.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Yeah, exactly. But but the guys in I think it's
their final years of arbitration. For Brady Singer, he's fourth
because he was a super two, Tyler Stevenson and Gavin
Lux so like they kind of know what those are
gonna be. And I mean, of those, I could see
(08:25):
maybe Stevenson doing some kind of maybe extension. I don't know,
it's possible. And a lot of times you'll see for
the guys younger, the guys in their first or second year,
only second year guys Nicolodolo. But in the first year
you have Spencer stear TJ Friedl, Matt mcleaan, Tony Santition,
Graham Ashcraft, Will Benson. Those are some really important pieces
(08:50):
that they need to do, need to keep, and they
want to keep. So a lot of times I think
you'll see those was those two years deals and that
kind of avoids it gives you. So it's it, you know.
I know, Jonathan India had that and then got traded,
And a lot of times it makes it easier for
you to trade, to get traded because those guys then
just have cost certainty for the next year, so you
(09:12):
don't have to go through this weird process once again.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Because it's very stressful.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Yeah, right, listen, it's easy for me to say now,
but if I offered a multi year deal, whether it's
two years or three years, you kind of want the security,
right because you just never know. Especially now, I feel
like guys don't have the amount of service time.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
As it used to be. They don't. It's almost like
they could just.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Go and get another guy, go and get another guy.
So the security I think is something that they got
to look into.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
Yeah, it's huge.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Take it a little bit of a pay cut, get
your security, and then go out and try to get
a bigger contract later.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Yeah, I you know, and like, this is nowhere near
the same thing. But like when I went to the
Athletico was the first time I actually had a contract,
And I remember when I left. When I went to
the Athletic, they they basically like I went and said,
(10:18):
I want the longest deal possible. That was one of
my negotiating things. And when I first came here, I
had the longest contract in the company because I negotiated
that because I wanted the security.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Yeah, well, but that is the same thing. I know
you say it's not the same thing. It is though,
because Trent, like you, you knew that your your performance
didn't have to worry about if I was going to
work next year, if I had a job with them
coming up, it makes.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Your job a lot easier, whatever job you have.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Like, I have another year on my contract, so that
that helps, you know, Yeah, and I would love an extension.
So if they want to avoid arbitration with me and
give me like one of the Albert Poolhole steals, I'm
a good I'm good.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Yeah, ten your deals. Your deal is nice?
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Yeah, right, the Joey deal. And of course you know
Joey earned every penny of it in this game, so
there is that. Yeah, yeah, so yes, So I just
thought that was interesting. And then, of course, man, is
it kind of boring for you as a baseball player
and a guy who loves the game on the field,
(11:29):
that so much of the discussion is about spreadsheets, especially
in the off season.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
I don't necessarily think it's boring because I love spreadsheets.
I do spreadsheets for everything, like it doesn't even it
doesn't matter what. Oh oh man, I'm such a nerd
with spreadsheets. Like we ordered hockey jerseys for parents, for
parents and kids game that's not happening until February. Well,
I ordered them and I put them all on a spreadsheet. Dude, Like,
(11:58):
I love spreadsheets, so I'm the wrong guy to ask
if they're boring good for you? I just now some
of the stuff that the some of the spreadsheets that
baseball uses. Now I have to be taught a little
bit more about what certain things mean. But dude, I
love that stuff. I love spreadsheets.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
I make one for when I'm doing a ward voting.
I do them because I really oh yeah, I'll share
one with you maybe, Like I just do all these
statistics in the person and then I will color code,
like yeah, you know what's the best and what's the worst,
and so the red to blue scale and so I'll
do that sometimes because it it lets me see it
(12:42):
a bunch of stuff all at once, and those colors
point out and be like, Okay, this guy's got a
lot of red. He's leading in this, this and this
and this, and it's it's one of those things because
you know, like I love War, I really do. But
war is a blunt instrument, right and pretty much for me,
(13:02):
and I've talked to a lot of people about this,
and I feel pretty good about where I stand on this.
Like anything within one win is a wash, right because
it is not a precise instrument. It's not a scalpel.
It's a bludgeon, you know, And so it's good for
me when I look at War, and I'll look at
(13:24):
both Fangrafts and Baseball Reference and a lot of times WARP,
which is Baseball prosextices. I use those almost as Okay,
here's my grouping who belongs in this group say like,
you know the MVP when we have to vote for ten, Well,
I'll probably look at the top twenty twenty five in
(13:44):
War and then Bingo granular and so that just kind
of helps me give It's like one cut down, right,
and so that's what I'll do.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
You have to share something with me, then you've got.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
To send me share one. I'll find one. This year
I didn't. I had Cy Young and it was a
lot easier.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
And so yeah, dude, so next rundown for our show,
do it on.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
A spreadsheet if you want or is that now that's
probably takes you way too much credit, So anyway, speak
of spreadsheets.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
So they declined the options on Austin Hayes, Prince Pseudo
Er and Scott Barlow. I don't think that's any surprise
any of those.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Okay, I was gonna ask you if that was probably expected.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Yeah, I mean just because let's see Austin Hayes, it
was a mutual option, so both have to agree. It's
not one or the other, it's both and both. So
the Reds just said, no, we're not going to pay
twelve million. You know, he made five million last year,
had a really nice season when he was healthy, but
twelve million is a lot.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Yeah, and so one million buyout. I believe I've talked
about this a lot of times, like they put that
on last year's budget where it'll be like, we're gonna
put the buyout last year instead of five millions, we'll
just consider I'm a six million dollar player. Okay, I'm
not sure about that. I'll have to check if they
still do that, but I know a lot of places
(15:18):
will do that just because again, you want the cost
certainty going forward, right, all right? Brent Suter a three
million dollar club option with a two hundred and fifty
thousand dollars buyout. The fact that the buyout was so low,
that's where that one made it easy, because you know,
you could maybe even go to Brent and be like whatever,
(15:38):
it looks like you could go to two point seventy
five million later and yeah, he'll take that. And it's
the same thing, right, And.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
He's a hometown kid, so I say, kid, Yeah, I
mean it might be easy for him to just say
I don't need what was it, three million?
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Okay, well sign me to something. I'd love to be here. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
And well also, like you know, the role that he
plays and the stuff that he has, the market probably
has him lower than three million a year.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Yeah, But and I would say, looking from the outside,
he would like to stay in Cincinnati.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
I think so too, and I think they would love
to have him. Yeah, Like I mean, here you talk
about a guy who won award from the Major League
Players Association for that one's not the Clemente It's oh gosh,
I feel really bad remembering who it's named after. But
like again, I think it was the.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Martin Award, Marvin Miller Award. That's exactly what it was.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
And that that tells you a lot about who he
is as a person. Actually, I remember the first time
I met Brent. Was it the late Great Green Diamond Gallery,
and he was just a guest. He had showed up
because he lived in Cincinnati and the off season, showed
up for one of the I think we did a panel.
(17:02):
We used to do a panel every year the local
Hall of Fame voters, and we talked about our Hall
of Fame ballot, and Brent showed up. Brent and his
wife came just to you know, watch and and and listen.
And so I went up to introduce myself afterwards, because
I knew who he was. He was already in the
big leagues, he was with the Brewers, and he introduced
(17:23):
himself to me first knowing who I was. And so
I was like, Okay, this is rare.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
You're a very popular, likable guy, dude.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Uh sure, and uh I'll put that on my resume.
Danny Graves says, that's so it must be true. But
but like, yeah, and he brings a lot to that clubhouse.
They they're really like the clubhouse dynamics. You would know
much better than I, but they're that's where they're taking
(17:56):
the biggest hit. And the guys that are no longer
technically part of the team, him, Scott Barlow was just
I mean, Barlow was a six and a half million
dollar club option with a one million buyout, and I
knew it was going to make that so that one
was pretty easy. But man, he was. He earned his
(18:17):
money last year. Just just that ability. Here's one thing
I don't think fans understand as much as those in
the inside. The most valuable thing you can do? All right,
as a pitcher, what's the most valuable thing you can do? Okay,
I was gonna go with post right, Oh, just the
(18:40):
value of posting, of pitching when you're asked, and Scott
Barlow pitched a ton Yeah you know yeah, being available
right like that availability is huge, even if you're not
at your best. You know, guys you were probably knowing you.
I know, you were this guy like skip you need me,
(19:02):
I'm there, Yeah, yeah, totally, and you knew that. There
were days where you knew like, hey, I'm going into
this game. It's not a good poop soon and yeah
and I got poop soup, but I gotta do it.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
So yeah, I think that is that's that's really important.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
That's good to hear that there's still some guys out
there like that, because I know there's there's not as many,
and I feel like it's because agents don't.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Yeah. But like when you're talking of Scott Barlow, Prent Suitor,
you know, Nick Martinez, Emilia Pagan, those guys all post Yeah. Yeah,
so those are the free agents Nick Martinez, Wade Miley,
Amilia Pagan, Zac Lateel Miguel, Andrew Harr. I would expect
Wade Miley to retire. You know, he dealt with a
(19:58):
lot of arm injuries. It was unbelievable that he made
it back and performed as he did in the little bit. Yeah,
but Nick martinezs Amelia Pagan, those are guys that I
think will be really in some demand and be looking
around now. Nick Martinez won't make anywhere near what he
(20:18):
made this past year when they had the qualifying offering
he made twenty, but you know, still a very valuable
player and it made sense why he did it there.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Yeah, effective in bullpen and as a starter.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
Yeah, that's that's a no brainer. It's just now same
with him.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
We talked about with Suitor, Like, I think Nick loved
being in Cincinnati, So.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Yeah, I know he did, and I know Amelio did
as well.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Right, as much as I would love Amelia to be back,
he's one of seven or eight guys that had thirty
saves in all of Major League Baseball. Yeh, So he's
going to be sought after.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Yeah, definitely, and I think he'll get a multi year
deal and good for him, you know. Yeah, that guy
gave everything to them and you gotta appreciate that. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
Yeah. I felt like towards the end of the season,
he was pitching.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Every day, he really, I mean he was, and like
even when he didn't have anything, And you know, that's
that's something that is big and yeah, you've done it,
you know.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Yeah, it's huge to have somebody like that, and it's
a huge hit if you lose somebody like that.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
So, Stanny, one thing I wanted to ask you is
because this team's going to probably this team will does
have to rebuild its bullpen. You know, they don't have
a whole lot. They have a lot of people who
are no longer going to be there, or young or not,
a lot of I don't know certainties. Why is building
a bullpen so difficult and why is there so much
(21:57):
variance between relievers from year to year.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
So I think that with building a bullpen, you have
to have you have to find guys that are like
Amelia Pegan that I know, he's got great stuff. He's
not lights out, he's not electric, he's not gonna wow
a bunch of people, but he'll get he'll get you out,
(22:21):
and he'll be successful because of his mentality. The mentality
to pitch in the ninth inning is different than the
mentality to pitch in the eighth inning, even though a
lot of times in the seventh and eighth and I
can vouch for this that Scott Sullivan was pitching against
the meat of the order, Yeah, Jeff Bagwell, Moises Alou,
(22:41):
greg Bigio, and then I get the bottom half of
the order. But still there's a difference in the mentality
because the ninth inning there's nothing else after unless it's tied,
you know, so in the eighth inning, if you give
it up, there's still a chance for you to come back.
So I think some guys kind to feel that little
security in the bullpen. Also, it's it's trying to find
(23:05):
guys who will post, who will be willing to go
back to back days, who will possibly be able to
throw three days in a row if needed, Which guys
can throw multiple innings. Which guys are gonna, you know,
need two days off instead of one day off. There's
so much that goes into building a bullpen. It can't
(23:25):
just have you say, here's a bunch.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Of good arms. This is who I want my bullpen.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
You need to have I think you got to have
different personalities, You got to have different stuff. You have
to have guys that mentally, I guess you could say,
aren't really all there, because we if you're not all there,
you just want the ball.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
You want to go out there and pitch, you know
what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
Yeah, No, it's like I mean the whole ted lasso.
You know, you gotta be a goldfish thing, like because
you don't have any memory because right, you know you,
I think you're walking a typro as a reliever, every reliever,
because no reliever come you know, you usually don't come
in in for a good situation. Yeah, you're there because
(24:12):
somebody else couldn't. Yeah, so you're almost like always a
fire extinguisher. Yeah, and that's or lighter float. And sometimes
in its baseball, you're not going to always succeed.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Right because sometimes you're lighter fluid.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Yeah, and I've been that too, but yeah, that's the thing,
like you said it, like you have to be a
goldfish when you're reliever. I think the biggest thing for
me was if I didn't do well, Yeah, I was
mad and upset and like wondered what I could have
done differently, But I knew that there was another chance
for me to pitch the next day. And that's what
(24:51):
made it so easy. When I was a starter. If
I sucked on the day that I started, I was
not a goldfish for four days. I could not forget
what I did for four straight days until my next start,
So mentally I couldn't do that. But being a reliever,
if you can be able to handle the ups and
downs of the season and you're you're not gonna be
(25:12):
great all year unless you're Eric Ganne the one year.
Other than that, like you're gonna have adversity and you
need to be able to deal with it.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Well, speaking of closers, we have the Reds Hall of
Fame nominees that were out, which again is is in
the there's one closer the second I think all time
in uh saves for the Reds in Francisco Cordero. But
that means there is somebody first, and that would be
mister Danny Graves. You can see right there behind them
(25:45):
the Reds Hall of Fame. Uh, let me start this
with no seriously, like what does it mean to you
to be a Reds Hall of Famer?
Speaker 2 (25:57):
You know, I don't even know like the right words
for it, Like I try to feel feel it out
and see what kind of superlatives I could use, but
I don't know if there's any, because it's amazing, unbelievable,
like surreal to be in the Hall of Fame of
the oldest team in all of baseball, a team that
(26:19):
you know, even if you're not a big baseball fan,
you know who the big Red Machine are at any
age whether it's current or if you know older. Everybody
knows the Big Red Machine. Everybody knows, you know, p Rose,
Johnny Bench, the whole team. And I grew up in
plant City or in val Rico, which isn't far from
(26:40):
Plant City, so I would go and see the Reds
and spring training a lot, and then to be able
to play for the team and then get to the
Hall of Fame, It's just it doesn't make any sense
to me, dude, Like it's I know, I see this
thing behind me, and I was going to take it
down and try to put something else up there, but I.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
Forgot, Like it's it's just it's it's just such.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
An honor, man like very humbling to realize that, you know,
I did everything I could and and people noticed that,
and just it's it's such an honor, Like I'll always
go down and say that I'm in the same kind
of club as the Big Red Machine and many others.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
Of course.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Yeah, So this year's eight candidates, and I mean I
can make the case for all quite honestly. These are
some really good good players, you know, I don't none
of these guys are well one of them is already
in the national Baseball Hall of Fame. But yeah, you know,
but but but other than that, not guys are National
(27:47):
Hall of Fame, but like certainly great players for this organization.
So I'll go down in alphabetical order. They are Homer Bailey,
Francisco Cordero, Zach Cozart, Aaron Harang, Mike Leek, Brandon Phillips,
Scott Roland Ed's volk has you know, I think I
know with if there's fan voting involved, and rightfully so,
(28:08):
I believe Brandon Phillips will be an overwhelming selection just
a he was a He was a great player for
the Reds, fantastic offensive offensively, defensively. You know, I don't
think there's ever been a question whether he was going
to be in the Reds Hall of Fame, and I
expect him to be in there this year.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Yeah, I think as a fan favorite for sure. And
like you said, Brandon on the field, his numbers and
his played defensively one of the best in Red's history.
I think with the plays that he made, the big
time hits that he had, He's yeah, I would agree
(28:54):
that he as far as fan voting, he would probably
be that guy.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
It's only one that they pick right, I think so.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Yeah, I'm sorry I'm to read up on that because
we are no longer part of the process, but I
think it is just one and I would expect it
to be him. I would. You know, there are several
guys here that I really really like. I mean, I
have just some great memories with pretty much everybody on here. Yeah,
(29:25):
Aaron Harang is a guy you played with. Yes, you
want to talk about posting, You want to talk about
good guy in the clubhouse, you want to talk about
good guy in the community, Like I mean, like Aaron
Harang is just one of the fantastic human beings she'll
ever meet.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
Yes, and yes to all of that. Like, he's a
gentle giant too. He was so great in the clubhouse.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
He he was a very intimidating looking figure, but he
was so cool and so nice. He always wanted to learn,
he always wanted to get better. And yeah, posting, this
guy would take it every fifth day and he would
be out there regardless if he was pitching great, pitching bad.
He wanted to stay out there. And that's hard to find.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
Man.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
You love guys that just can take a beating, take
one for the team and still just and I guess
I'm kind of biased to it because he saved us
a lot in the bullpen, you know, saved our arms
because he was going deeper into the games. And I
only got to play with him for a couple of
years or three years maybe, yeah, about three year. I
think he came in two thousand and three, so two
(30:32):
thousand and three, four and five. But he was awesome, man.
He was awesome to be around. He was kind of
nerdy like me, with like love the cars and trucks
and like, I don't know, I just I love Aaron Harang.
He's such a good dude on the field. I know
he played for the Cincinnati probably about the same amount
(30:54):
of time I did, like eight or nine years, I think,
for a good amount of time, so most of his
career was with the I think he absolutely deserves at
some point to be in the Hall of Fame. Whether
it's now with the fan voting, I don't know. But again,
see Trent, I didn't get in with fan voting. It
took me a while after with the committee voting to
(31:17):
get me in. So maybe that's what happens with Aaron Harang.
But I feel like he deserves to be in it
one percent.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
What like I mean, I just remember Mark Sheldon, who
does such a fine job covering the team for MLB
dot Com. I just remember, like I think it was
twenty ten. He had to do like a they had
like an all uh, you know, a pick a team
for the first ten years of the Reds and like
you know, starting pitching was not a strength of them
(31:46):
in those years. Yes, yeah, and you know there were
many years where it was harange just holding it down.
And then Bronson of course came in six the same
year that Phillips did. That Brandon did and were such
a vital part of it. But like beyond that, like
you're not talking a lot of guys who had big,
(32:06):
long careers, you know, and so what he and Bronson
were able to do, just like you said, to eat innings, yeah,
was so valuable.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
That's such a good point.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
I didn't even think of that, Like for so long
the Reds organization didn't have starters that just ate up
the innings, and that you knew every year going into
it that you had this at least one guy that
is going to give you one and two hundred innings.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Because if you look at the Reds success since they've
moved to this ballpark. Their playoff teams, all their playoff teams,
it started with starting pitching. Yeah, I would say this
year as well, twenty twenty you had you know, Cy
Young Winner and and and a lot of others. You know,
on that ten through thirteen you're talking about the Quato,
(32:59):
Bailey Bronson, that whole Volcez who's also on this uh
this list. You had those guys and you had a
rotation and Mike Leak also two thousan Yeah, and on
you know twenty twelve when they were I think the
best team in baseball. Uh, you know, you had those
(33:22):
five Their five starters started a total of one hundred
and sixty one games and the only one that they
didn't was like a makeup game.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
Are you serious? Yeah, Oh my gosh, that is in thing.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
And then of course that is when Johnny Cuato gets
hurt in the first first ending of the playoffs. It
was and then Lado's comes, you know, Sam Lookure first
and then Laidos. But all that so that is you
look at it, that's where this team at their best
has been their best.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
Gosh, that is that's unheard of to have.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Five starters have that many starts and.
Speaker 3 (34:05):
Wow, gosh, spoiled that bullpen got spoiled.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Yeah, they did. Although Bronson would always have like one
or two a year where he got just blown out
in the first inning and somebody had the cover eight
or he would eat it, you know, he would eat longer,
and he would take three. Even if he gave up
like six runs on fifty pitches in the first he
would still get you to like the fourth.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Yeah, but Bronson's easily forgiven. If he had lays an
egg in the first inning, they need to say, Okay,
we got you this time.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Yeah, because he he. I mean, that's a guy who
for so many years had two hundred innings year after
year after yeah, year. Yeah, and except for the one
where he had h I think it was a one
and a third.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
Oh oh, that makes me want to throw up.
Speaker 4 (34:51):
I know, it's not a big deal, just just two outs,
just to be two outs.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
And now you have h Yeah, two hundred innings is
almost unheard of now.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Right right, right?
Speaker 2 (35:02):
So, speaking of Hall of Fame and kind of on
some we mentioned earlier, I just want to throw this
out there. I did a spreadsheet too for my Hall
of Fame speech.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
Just so you know, and I still have it.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
Yeah, well, I'm a worthy guy. So like that's why
I'm writing this in notes and I can't do a
rundown and in a spreadsheet. I've got to do it
notes because I am my notes guy. Oh writing guy.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Maybe I'll send you the spreadsheet of my Hall of
Fame speech and you can see the different colors and variations.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
I know I still have it. It was years ago
and I still have it.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
So all right, we're gonna do one more bit of
news before we get out of here. Not a huge thing,
but the Arizona Fall League, the Fall Stars game. You
have three reds selected for that, although one Ret Louder
is not going to pitch in it, which is fine.
I mean, I don't think Rehet Louder has much to
prove about competition or anything, because he has dominated the
(35:59):
big league level ready. It's just getting him innings and
it's great. He's not going to pitch in that game.
But Alfredo Duno, the catcher who was it Class A
last year, and Mike Leak, I mean not Mike Leak, sorry,
he's just right above this. The Cam Collier third basement
or infield er Cam Collier is also going to be
in that game, and that's, uh, that's good. So yeah,
(36:23):
but you know, I think it's this weekend.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
Okay, So what about Duno.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
Duno's impressive, Yeah, I mean, and also like he's playing.
His numbers aren't great in the Fall League this year,
but you're talking about a like nineteen twenty year old
catcher who just played a full season it a low
A ball and is holding his own in the Fall League.
(36:49):
And I think that's pretty impressive.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
That is. But he's not close, is he.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
I mean, he'll just don't start and Dayton next year.
But you know, like he is, he's a massive, massive individual,
but can also run, like you know, he had several
trying to remember how any triples he had last year?
Speaker 3 (37:11):
First catcher, whoa.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Oh have you let me? I'm gonna pull this up
real quick. Okay, going, but Alfredo Duno at nineteen in Lowe,
so even in Lowe, that's young. This year, he played
in one hundred and thirteen games, four ninety five played appearances,
(37:34):
hit to eighty seven, four thirty on base five eighteen
slug eighteen home runs in the in the Florida State League,
which is not an easy home place runs. He had
thirty two doubles and two triples.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
But two triples, Wow, that's I mean on base huh
at nineteen he's just a kid. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
So the reason he's like, well he's listed six two, two, ten,
I don't I don't think either of those are correct bigger. Yeah,
and then he's got a you might relate here, but
then he's like his face, he looks like a baby perfect,
but his you know, his physical stature is that of
(38:28):
not man.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Well, the reason I asked you if he's close, like,
and this is something we can delve into later because
I know we're running out of time. Does that affect
any kind of long term deal for Tyler?
Speaker 1 (38:42):
I think it's one of those things where I think
you could he's almost catchers take a.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
While, and but there's yeah, there's a lot learned.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
You know, he's you know, he's he's a guy like honestly,
he could be like his countryman, salth Perez. Now that's yeah,
I wouldn't expect that because you don't expect that because
Salvor Perez has been just a phenomenal career. Lifetime run.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
Yeah, sign a two year deal again, two year extension,
I think.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
Yeah, just amazing. So yeah, that's that's an interesting guy
to watch. If you watch the Fall Startist game, and
I think I have it right here, I'm gonna see
where it is. But yeah, it's uh, it's I love
the Arizona Fall League. You didn't play in it.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
Did you? I did not.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
It's a it's a fun, fun time. So yeah, Saturday,
November eight, six thirty Mountain time, which is thirty our time. Oh,
that's the home run derby, but it'll be on the eighth.
That's a a big part of it. So anyway, I
just wanted to get that in there, and uh, hey,
(40:03):
we'll be back next week. We'll talk about that next week.
You're gonna check out the Fall Stars game.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
I'm gonna try I'm actually going to Nashville this weekend
for hockey tournament with my kids, so leaving leaving, Uh well,
we got.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
Four games this weekend.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
So yeah, travel hockeyball like travel baseball, right, yeah, but
it's it's so much better because it's inside.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
You don't sweat.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
Well, uh, Danny, we will get back together next week,
next two, so you'll have the latest episode of Riverfront Territory.
Please subscribe to Riverfront Territory on YouTube and wherever you
get your podcast, share review, say nice things, yes, please both.
I mean Danny's wearing a lot of pink. It chose
(40:53):
his sensitive side.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
I'm very past.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
Oh you just froze, which is kind of funny. When
I'm talking about that. You said you're very and then
you just grow, so it's funny. But anyway, share with
you kindly give us five stars, please please, so yeah
that we would love that. Riverfront Territory is part of
the Foul Territory Network, So check out the other Foul
Territory shows including uh, you know the Big show, Fair Territory,
(41:23):
which is the major league show. And then we have
tons of every team or many teams have a podcast.
Speaker 3 (41:30):
Now so fifteen of them now, right.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
Fifteen, So that's half.
Speaker 3 (41:33):
Look at me in math that see it's a spreadsheet
at help with math d
Speaker 1 (41:40):
So until next time, I'm Trent Rosecrants and he is
Red's Hall of Famer Danny Graves.
How about that For a little jaunty intro, I'm C.
Trent Rosecrans. This is Riverfront Territory on the Foul Territory Network.
I am here once again, once again as always, maybe
actually say as always for episode two of this show.
Danny Graves, Red's Hall of Fame member, all time leading
(00:30):
saves leader in Red's history. Both of those things are
germane to what we will talk about in a little bit.
But Danny, welcome once again. Thanks for being with us,
and I guess co hosting. So I don't thank you,
do I?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Or are we just like, yes, we can thank each other.
That's very polite of both of us, and we I think.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Both of us are known for that. Or well one
of us is.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
We need to work on our man we need to
work on manners.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Oh yeah, yeah, that's true. That's true. We can always
do that. We can always be better, right Danny, That's right. So,
uh yeah, welcome to Riverfront Territory, a show about the
Cincinnati Reds on the Foul Territory Network. You know, we're
we're smack dab in the middle of off season, uh stuff.
Thursday is the day that free agency technically begins. Uh well,
(01:24):
real free agency because there's a five day window where
teams can negotiate with their own players. But like for
for obvious reasons like that just doesn't like it. You know,
if you're going to be a free agent, you want
to see what the market bears, right, and unless you're
(01:44):
just like no, this is where I want to be regardless.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Well, like Shane Bieber actually said, he just I just
want to stay in Toronto, So that's what we're going
to do.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
I guess it was his option that he picked up.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
But yeah, those five days usually just a phone call
say okay, well we're we'll see you guys after the
five days are over, and then we'll talk again at
some point later on.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
But thanks talk to you later. By how much?
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Because because you were in free agency, right, you got
to that level?
Speaker 3 (02:11):
No? I?
Speaker 2 (02:12):
I well when I after I sucked and got released,
that's when I became free agents. But as far as
like becoming a free agent with time, thankfully, I signed
a three year deal a year before my free agency.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
So yeah, okay, yeah, so like even going into there,
so there are some guys who are arbitration eligible and
kind of there, what was that discussion like with your agent.
When did they come to.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
You so well with arbitration.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
It really wasn't until like around the Winter meetings in
December when we even heard from them, And uh yeah,
that's when the the love hate relationship really started to
turn into a hate relationship. And that's when I really, yeah,
that's when I felt like, oh my gosh, why do
they even want me?
Speaker 3 (03:03):
If they think all these bad things about me?
Speaker 2 (03:06):
And like that, you don't want to pay me this
amount of money because this and this and this, Well,
why do they want me? Well, that's just part of
the arbitration process to try to make you not look
as good to the arbitrators in case they have to
make this decision. And it's a it's a terrible feeling, dude,
It's it's awful. It's like you go to the arbitration yes, yes,
(03:27):
oh man. Yeah, And thankfully mine wasn't as vicious and
violent as some others. Jim Bowden was the GM at
the time, and he wasn't in there. Doc Rogers was
the assistant GM then and he sat in there and
Doc was such a nice guy. It was hard for
(03:49):
hard for him to say any bad stuff, so like
he was trying to plead their case, and he did
good enough because they won the arbitration.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
I lost.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
But so that's actually kind of like best case scenario
in that situation that you had someone like Doc, because
we both know Doc or knew Doc. Yeah, God rest
his soul. What a what a kind gentle man. Uh
just I can't see him like trying to just destroy
anybody because he has such he was such such a
(04:21):
good dude.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
He was he was And you know, I didn't know
that Doc was going to be in the arbitration with us.
I thought Jim was coming, so I prepared, and.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
We all know Jim.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Jim could get feisty, and uh, I was prepared to
just hold everything in and not say anything, not not
fight back or look angry. And then I saw Doc
and I would just kind of had this like big
sigh of relief, and uh, it was it was nice
that I had him. I feel bad for other guys
that didn't have to have to or get to have
(04:55):
him through this process. But it's still it's still not
not fun, but it's part of you know, I say
that I lost arbitration, but I still got a huge
jump in my salary.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Yeah, And that's a big part of this. When we
were talking about payroll and et cetera, Nitkrawl saying that
it'll probably be around the same as it was last year.
So that's one hundred and you know, fifteen one hundred
and sixteen something like that million dollar payroll. A lot
of it's going to be taken up by They have
eleven guys an ARB and so what's really tough there
(05:31):
when you're trying to make all these decisions is there's
no certainty yet, and that's why you kind of want
to get some of those ARB cases done like quickly,
just so you know what you're dealing with and what
kind of room you have in your budget.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Right, you would think that they would want to get
it done asap so that whatever they have left they
go out and try to get what they need. But
I don't know why it's different now than it was then,
because I just feel like it was just.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
A waiting game. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
We we pretty much waited until close to the very end.
We were negotiating right until the day before I left
spring training to go to arbitration. So but yeah, I
would think that you would want to get both sides
would want to get something done as quick as possible.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Yeah, and I think actually that is why a lot
of teams, including the Reds I believe, are still a
file and trial team, which says like, once you file
and what is that date? That's in January though, I mean,
so it's a pretty it's pretty late. Yeah, it's last
data exchange is going to be January eighth, So that's
still that's that's that's pretty late. Yeah, but it usually
(06:42):
does go down to that time. Yeah, so that's really
tough because it could it could change things now. You know,
usually the numbers aren't so far off that it's gonna,
you know, surprise anyone.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Right, right, And it's amazing how how close you get
before you actually get to that that meeting point. You
know that because usually it happens before you go to arbitration.
Not not a whole lot of guys end up going
to arbitration. But yeah, the numbers are close, and sometimes
it's like, okay, we're fighting over for example, two million,
(07:20):
you want to give me two point five?
Speaker 3 (07:22):
No, I want three million.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
It's just I know, five hundred thousand dollars is a lot,
but you know, in this game, that's not worth burning
Bridges right.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Right, So yeah, so the looking ahead, like those guys,
Brady Singer, he's gonna he's gonna make a good chunk,
well deserved. Man, what a crazy season he had. Yeah,
Tyler Stevenson is a third year guy. And the way
this works is the you know through those, the more
times you go through this, the more you're gonna make
(07:54):
because you kind of get a bump. I mean, like,
nobody gets a cut and an arbitration right.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
The only way you get a cut is if they
cut you right and then get that.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Yeah, exactly. But but the guys in I think it's
their final years of arbitration. For Brady Singer, he's fourth
because he was a super two, Tyler Stevenson and Gavin
Lux so like they kind of know what those are
gonna be. And I mean, of those, I could see
(08:25):
maybe Stevenson doing some kind of maybe extension. I don't know,
it's possible. And a lot of times you'll see for
the guys younger, the guys in their first or second year,
only second year guys Nicolodolo. But in the first year
you have Spencer stear TJ Friedl, Matt mcleaan, Tony Santition,
Graham Ashcraft, Will Benson. Those are some really important pieces
(08:50):
that they need to do, need to keep, and they
want to keep. So a lot of times I think
you'll see those was those two years deals and that
kind of avoids it gives you. So it's it, you know.
I know, Jonathan India had that and then got traded,
And a lot of times it makes it easier for
you to trade, to get traded because those guys then
just have cost certainty for the next year, so you
(09:12):
don't have to go through this weird process once again.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Because it's very stressful.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Yeah, right, listen, it's easy for me to say now,
but if I offered a multi year deal, whether it's
two years or three years, you kind of want the security,
right because you just never know. Especially now, I feel
like guys don't have the amount of service time.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
As it used to be. They don't. It's almost like
they could just.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Go and get another guy, go and get another guy.
So the security I think is something that they got
to look into.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
Yeah, it's huge.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Take it a little bit of a pay cut, get
your security, and then go out and try to get
a bigger contract later.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Yeah, I you know, and like, this is nowhere near
the same thing. But like when I went to the
Athletico was the first time I actually had a contract,
And I remember when I left. When I went to
the Athletic, they they basically like I went and said,
(10:18):
I want the longest deal possible. That was one of
my negotiating things. And when I first came here, I
had the longest contract in the company because I negotiated
that because I wanted the security.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Yeah, well, but that is the same thing. I know
you say it's not the same thing. It is though,
because Trent, like you, you knew that your your performance
didn't have to worry about if I was going to
work next year, if I had a job with them
coming up, it makes.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Your job a lot easier, whatever job you have.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Like, I have another year on my contract, so that
that helps, you know, Yeah, and I would love an extension.
So if they want to avoid arbitration with me and
give me like one of the Albert Poolhole steals, I'm
a good I'm good.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Yeah, ten your deals. Your deal is nice?
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Yeah, right, the Joey deal. And of course you know
Joey earned every penny of it in this game, so
there is that. Yeah, yeah, so yes, So I just
thought that was interesting. And then, of course, man, is
it kind of boring for you as a baseball player
and a guy who loves the game on the field,
(11:29):
that so much of the discussion is about spreadsheets, especially
in the off season.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
I don't necessarily think it's boring because I love spreadsheets.
I do spreadsheets for everything, like it doesn't even it
doesn't matter what. Oh oh man, I'm such a nerd
with spreadsheets. Like we ordered hockey jerseys for parents, for
parents and kids game that's not happening until February. Well,
I ordered them and I put them all on a spreadsheet. Dude, Like,
(11:58):
I love spreadsheets, so I'm the wrong guy to ask
if they're boring good for you? I just now some
of the stuff that the some of the spreadsheets that
baseball uses. Now I have to be taught a little
bit more about what certain things mean. But dude, I
love that stuff. I love spreadsheets.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
I make one for when I'm doing a ward voting.
I do them because I really oh yeah, I'll share
one with you maybe, Like I just do all these
statistics in the person and then I will color code,
like yeah, you know what's the best and what's the worst,
and so the red to blue scale and so I'll
do that sometimes because it it lets me see it
(12:42):
a bunch of stuff all at once, and those colors
point out and be like, Okay, this guy's got a
lot of red. He's leading in this, this and this
and this, and it's it's one of those things because
you know, like I love War, I really do. But
war is a blunt instrument, right and pretty much for me,
(13:02):
and I've talked to a lot of people about this,
and I feel pretty good about where I stand on this.
Like anything within one win is a wash, right because
it is not a precise instrument. It's not a scalpel.
It's a bludgeon, you know, And so it's good for
me when I look at War, and I'll look at
(13:24):
both Fangrafts and Baseball Reference and a lot of times WARP,
which is Baseball prosextices. I use those almost as Okay,
here's my grouping who belongs in this group say like,
you know the MVP when we have to vote for ten, Well,
I'll probably look at the top twenty twenty five in
(13:44):
War and then Bingo granular and so that just kind
of helps me give It's like one cut down, right,
and so that's what I'll do.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
You have to share something with me, then you've got.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
To send me share one. I'll find one. This year
I didn't. I had Cy Young and it was a
lot easier.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
And so yeah, dude, so next rundown for our show,
do it on.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
A spreadsheet if you want or is that now that's
probably takes you way too much credit, So anyway, speak
of spreadsheets.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
So they declined the options on Austin Hayes, Prince Pseudo
Er and Scott Barlow. I don't think that's any surprise
any of those.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Okay, I was gonna ask you if that was probably expected.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Yeah, I mean just because let's see Austin Hayes, it
was a mutual option, so both have to agree. It's
not one or the other, it's both and both. So
the Reds just said, no, we're not going to pay
twelve million. You know, he made five million last year,
had a really nice season when he was healthy, but
twelve million is a lot.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Yeah, and so one million buyout. I believe I've talked
about this a lot of times, like they put that
on last year's budget where it'll be like, we're gonna
put the buyout last year instead of five millions, we'll
just consider I'm a six million dollar player. Okay, I'm
not sure about that. I'll have to check if they
still do that, but I know a lot of places
(15:18):
will do that just because again, you want the cost
certainty going forward, right, all right? Brent Suter a three
million dollar club option with a two hundred and fifty
thousand dollars buyout. The fact that the buyout was so low,
that's where that one made it easy, because you know,
you could maybe even go to Brent and be like whatever,
(15:38):
it looks like you could go to two point seventy
five million later and yeah, he'll take that. And it's
the same thing, right, And.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
He's a hometown kid, so I say, kid, Yeah, I
mean it might be easy for him to just say
I don't need what was it, three million?
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Okay, well sign me to something. I'd love to be here. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
And well also, like you know, the role that he
plays and the stuff that he has, the market probably
has him lower than three million a year.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Yeah, But and I would say, looking from the outside,
he would like to stay in Cincinnati.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
I think so too, and I think they would love
to have him. Yeah, Like I mean, here you talk
about a guy who won award from the Major League
Players Association for that one's not the Clemente It's oh gosh,
I feel really bad remembering who it's named after. But
like again, I think it was the.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Martin Award, Marvin Miller Award. That's exactly what it was.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
And that that tells you a lot about who he
is as a person. Actually, I remember the first time
I met Brent. Was it the late Great Green Diamond Gallery,
and he was just a guest. He had showed up
because he lived in Cincinnati and the off season, showed
up for one of the I think we did a panel.
(17:02):
We used to do a panel every year the local
Hall of Fame voters, and we talked about our Hall
of Fame ballot, and Brent showed up. Brent and his
wife came just to you know, watch and and and listen.
And so I went up to introduce myself afterwards, because
I knew who he was. He was already in the
big leagues, he was with the Brewers, and he introduced
(17:23):
himself to me first knowing who I was. And so
I was like, Okay, this is rare.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
You're a very popular, likable guy, dude.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Uh sure, and uh I'll put that on my resume.
Danny Graves says, that's so it must be true. But
but like, yeah, and he brings a lot to that clubhouse.
They they're really like the clubhouse dynamics. You would know
much better than I, but they're that's where they're taking
(17:56):
the biggest hit. And the guys that are no longer
technically part of the team, him, Scott Barlow was just
I mean, Barlow was a six and a half million
dollar club option with a one million buyout, and I
knew it was going to make that so that one
was pretty easy. But man, he was. He earned his
(18:17):
money last year. Just just that ability. Here's one thing
I don't think fans understand as much as those in
the inside. The most valuable thing you can do? All right,
as a pitcher, what's the most valuable thing you can do? Okay,
I was gonna go with post right, Oh, just the
(18:40):
value of posting, of pitching when you're asked, and Scott
Barlow pitched a ton Yeah you know yeah, being available
right like that availability is huge, even if you're not
at your best. You know, guys you were probably knowing you.
I know, you were this guy like skip you need me,
(19:02):
I'm there, Yeah, yeah, totally, and you knew that. There
were days where you knew like, hey, I'm going into
this game. It's not a good poop soon and yeah
and I got poop soup, but I gotta do it.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
So yeah, I think that is that's that's really important.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
That's good to hear that there's still some guys out
there like that, because I know there's there's not as many,
and I feel like it's because agents don't.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Yeah. But like when you're talking of Scott Barlow, Prent Suitor,
you know, Nick Martinez, Emilia Pagan, those guys all post Yeah. Yeah,
so those are the free agents Nick Martinez, Wade Miley,
Amilia Pagan, Zac Lateel Miguel, Andrew Harr. I would expect
Wade Miley to retire. You know, he dealt with a
(19:58):
lot of arm injuries. It was unbelievable that he made
it back and performed as he did in the little bit. Yeah,
but Nick martinezs Amelia Pagan, those are guys that I
think will be really in some demand and be looking
around now. Nick Martinez won't make anywhere near what he
(20:18):
made this past year when they had the qualifying offering
he made twenty, but you know, still a very valuable
player and it made sense why he did it there.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Yeah, effective in bullpen and as a starter.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
Yeah, that's that's a no brainer. It's just now same
with him.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
We talked about with Suitor, Like, I think Nick loved
being in Cincinnati, So.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Yeah, I know he did, and I know Amelio did
as well.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Right, as much as I would love Amelia to be back,
he's one of seven or eight guys that had thirty
saves in all of Major League Baseball. Yeh, So he's
going to be sought after.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Yeah, definitely, and I think he'll get a multi year
deal and good for him, you know. Yeah, that guy
gave everything to them and you gotta appreciate that. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
Yeah. I felt like towards the end of the season,
he was pitching.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Every day, he really, I mean he was, and like
even when he didn't have anything, And you know, that's
that's something that is big and yeah, you've done it,
you know.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Yeah, it's huge to have somebody like that, and it's
a huge hit if you lose somebody like that.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
So, Stanny, one thing I wanted to ask you is
because this team's going to probably this team will does
have to rebuild its bullpen. You know, they don't have
a whole lot. They have a lot of people who
are no longer going to be there, or young or not,
a lot of I don't know certainties. Why is building
a bullpen so difficult and why is there so much
(21:57):
variance between relievers from year to year.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
So I think that with building a bullpen, you have
to have you have to find guys that are like
Amelia Pegan that I know, he's got great stuff. He's
not lights out, he's not electric, he's not gonna wow
a bunch of people, but he'll get he'll get you out,
(22:21):
and he'll be successful because of his mentality. The mentality
to pitch in the ninth inning is different than the
mentality to pitch in the eighth inning, even though a
lot of times in the seventh and eighth and I
can vouch for this that Scott Sullivan was pitching against
the meat of the order, Yeah, Jeff Bagwell, Moises Alou,
(22:41):
greg Bigio, and then I get the bottom half of
the order. But still there's a difference in the mentality
because the ninth inning there's nothing else after unless it's tied,
you know, so in the eighth inning, if you give
it up, there's still a chance for you to come back.
So I think some guys kind to feel that little
security in the bullpen. Also, it's it's trying to find
(23:05):
guys who will post, who will be willing to go
back to back days, who will possibly be able to
throw three days in a row if needed, Which guys
can throw multiple innings. Which guys are gonna, you know,
need two days off instead of one day off. There's
so much that goes into building a bullpen. It can't
(23:25):
just have you say, here's a bunch.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Of good arms. This is who I want my bullpen.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
You need to have I think you got to have
different personalities, You got to have different stuff. You have
to have guys that mentally, I guess you could say,
aren't really all there, because we if you're not all there,
you just want the ball.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
You want to go out there and pitch, you know
what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
Yeah, No, it's like I mean the whole ted lasso.
You know, you gotta be a goldfish thing, like because
you don't have any memory because right, you know you,
I think you're walking a typro as a reliever, every reliever,
because no reliever come you know, you usually don't come
in in for a good situation. Yeah, you're there because
(24:12):
somebody else couldn't. Yeah, so you're almost like always a
fire extinguisher. Yeah, and that's or lighter float. And sometimes
in its baseball, you're not going to always succeed.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Right because sometimes you're lighter fluid.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Yeah, and I've been that too, but yeah, that's the thing,
like you said it, like you have to be a
goldfish when you're reliever. I think the biggest thing for
me was if I didn't do well, Yeah, I was
mad and upset and like wondered what I could have
done differently, But I knew that there was another chance
for me to pitch the next day. And that's what
(24:51):
made it so easy. When I was a starter. If
I sucked on the day that I started, I was
not a goldfish for four days. I could not forget
what I did for four straight days until my next start,
So mentally I couldn't do that. But being a reliever,
if you can be able to handle the ups and
downs of the season and you're you're not gonna be
(25:12):
great all year unless you're Eric Ganne the one year.
Other than that, like you're gonna have adversity and you
need to be able to deal with it.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Well, speaking of closers, we have the Reds Hall of
Fame nominees that were out, which again is is in
the there's one closer the second I think all time
in uh saves for the Reds in Francisco Cordero. But
that means there is somebody first, and that would be
mister Danny Graves. You can see right there behind them
(25:45):
the Reds Hall of Fame. Uh, let me start this
with no seriously, like what does it mean to you
to be a Reds Hall of Famer?
Speaker 2 (25:57):
You know, I don't even know like the right words
for it, Like I try to feel feel it out
and see what kind of superlatives I could use, but
I don't know if there's any, because it's amazing, unbelievable,
like surreal to be in the Hall of Fame of
the oldest team in all of baseball, a team that
(26:19):
you know, even if you're not a big baseball fan,
you know who the big Red Machine are at any
age whether it's current or if you know older. Everybody
knows the Big Red Machine. Everybody knows, you know, p Rose,
Johnny Bench, the whole team. And I grew up in
plant City or in val Rico, which isn't far from
(26:40):
Plant City, so I would go and see the Reds
and spring training a lot, and then to be able
to play for the team and then get to the
Hall of Fame, It's just it doesn't make any sense
to me, dude, Like it's I know, I see this
thing behind me, and I was going to take it
down and try to put something else up there, but I.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
Forgot, Like it's it's just it's it's just such.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
An honor, man like very humbling to realize that, you know,
I did everything I could and and people noticed that,
and just it's it's such an honor, Like I'll always
go down and say that I'm in the same kind
of club as the Big Red Machine and many others.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
Of course.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Yeah, So this year's eight candidates, and I mean I
can make the case for all quite honestly. These are
some really good good players, you know, I don't none
of these guys are well one of them is already
in the national Baseball Hall of Fame. But yeah, you know,
but but but other than that, not guys are National
(27:47):
Hall of Fame, but like certainly great players for this organization.
So I'll go down in alphabetical order. They are Homer Bailey,
Francisco Cordero, Zach Cozart, Aaron Harang, Mike Leek, Brandon Phillips,
Scott Roland Ed's volk has you know, I think I
know with if there's fan voting involved, and rightfully so,
(28:08):
I believe Brandon Phillips will be an overwhelming selection just
a he was a He was a great player for
the Reds, fantastic offensive offensively, defensively. You know, I don't
think there's ever been a question whether he was going
to be in the Reds Hall of Fame, and I
expect him to be in there this year.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Yeah, I think as a fan favorite for sure. And
like you said, Brandon on the field, his numbers and
his played defensively one of the best in Red's history.
I think with the plays that he made, the big
time hits that he had, He's yeah, I would agree
(28:54):
that he as far as fan voting, he would probably
be that guy.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
It's only one that they pick right, I think so.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Yeah, I'm sorry I'm to read up on that because
we are no longer part of the process, but I
think it is just one and I would expect it
to be him. I would. You know, there are several
guys here that I really really like. I mean, I
have just some great memories with pretty much everybody on here. Yeah,
(29:25):
Aaron Harang is a guy you played with. Yes, you
want to talk about posting, You want to talk about
good guy in the clubhouse, you want to talk about
good guy in the community, Like I mean, like Aaron
Harang is just one of the fantastic human beings she'll
ever meet.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
Yes, and yes to all of that. Like, he's a
gentle giant too. He was so great in the clubhouse.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
He he was a very intimidating looking figure, but he
was so cool and so nice. He always wanted to learn,
he always wanted to get better. And yeah, posting, this
guy would take it every fifth day and he would
be out there regardless if he was pitching great, pitching bad.
He wanted to stay out there. And that's hard to find.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
Man.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
You love guys that just can take a beating, take
one for the team and still just and I guess
I'm kind of biased to it because he saved us
a lot in the bullpen, you know, saved our arms
because he was going deeper into the games. And I
only got to play with him for a couple of
years or three years maybe, yeah, about three year. I
think he came in two thousand and three, so two
(30:32):
thousand and three, four and five. But he was awesome, man.
He was awesome to be around. He was kind of
nerdy like me, with like love the cars and trucks
and like, I don't know, I just I love Aaron Harang.
He's such a good dude on the field. I know
he played for the Cincinnati probably about the same amount
(30:54):
of time I did, like eight or nine years, I think,
for a good amount of time, so most of his
career was with the I think he absolutely deserves at
some point to be in the Hall of Fame. Whether
it's now with the fan voting, I don't know. But again,
see Trent, I didn't get in with fan voting. It
took me a while after with the committee voting to
(31:17):
get me in. So maybe that's what happens with Aaron Harang.
But I feel like he deserves to be in it
one percent.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
What like I mean, I just remember Mark Sheldon, who
does such a fine job covering the team for MLB
dot Com. I just remember, like I think it was
twenty ten. He had to do like a they had
like an all uh, you know, a pick a team
for the first ten years of the Reds and like
you know, starting pitching was not a strength of them
(31:46):
in those years. Yes, yeah, and you know there were
many years where it was harange just holding it down.
And then Bronson of course came in six the same
year that Phillips did. That Brandon did and were such
a vital part of it. But like beyond that, like
you're not talking a lot of guys who had big,
(32:06):
long careers, you know, and so what he and Bronson
were able to do, just like you said, to eat innings, yeah,
was so valuable.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
That's such a good point.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
I didn't even think of that, Like for so long
the Reds organization didn't have starters that just ate up
the innings, and that you knew every year going into
it that you had this at least one guy that
is going to give you one and two hundred innings.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Because if you look at the Reds success since they've
moved to this ballpark. Their playoff teams, all their playoff teams,
it started with starting pitching. Yeah, I would say this
year as well, twenty twenty you had you know, Cy
Young Winner and and and a lot of others. You know,
on that ten through thirteen you're talking about the Quato,
(32:59):
Bailey Bronson, that whole Volcez who's also on this uh
this list. You had those guys and you had a
rotation and Mike Leak also two thousan Yeah, and on
you know twenty twelve when they were I think the
best team in baseball. Uh, you know, you had those
(33:22):
five Their five starters started a total of one hundred
and sixty one games and the only one that they
didn't was like a makeup game.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
Are you serious? Yeah, Oh my gosh, that is in thing.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
And then of course that is when Johnny Cuato gets
hurt in the first first ending of the playoffs. It
was and then Lado's comes, you know, Sam Lookure first
and then Laidos. But all that so that is you
look at it, that's where this team at their best
has been their best.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
Gosh, that is that's unheard of to have.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Five starters have that many starts and.
Speaker 3 (34:05):
Wow, gosh, spoiled that bullpen got spoiled.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Yeah, they did. Although Bronson would always have like one
or two a year where he got just blown out
in the first inning and somebody had the cover eight
or he would eat it, you know, he would eat longer,
and he would take three. Even if he gave up
like six runs on fifty pitches in the first he
would still get you to like the fourth.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Yeah, but Bronson's easily forgiven. If he had lays an
egg in the first inning, they need to say, Okay,
we got you this time.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Yeah, because he he. I mean, that's a guy who
for so many years had two hundred innings year after
year after yeah, year. Yeah, and except for the one
where he had h I think it was a one
and a third.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
Oh oh, that makes me want to throw up.
Speaker 4 (34:51):
I know, it's not a big deal, just just two outs,
just to be two outs.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
And now you have h Yeah, two hundred innings is
almost unheard of now.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Right right, right?
Speaker 2 (35:02):
So, speaking of Hall of Fame and kind of on
some we mentioned earlier, I just want to throw this
out there. I did a spreadsheet too for my Hall
of Fame speech.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
Just so you know, and I still have it.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
Yeah, well, I'm a worthy guy. So like that's why
I'm writing this in notes and I can't do a
rundown and in a spreadsheet. I've got to do it
notes because I am my notes guy. Oh writing guy.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Maybe I'll send you the spreadsheet of my Hall of
Fame speech and you can see the different colors and variations.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
I know I still have it. It was years ago
and I still have it.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
So all right, we're gonna do one more bit of
news before we get out of here. Not a huge thing,
but the Arizona Fall League, the Fall Stars game. You
have three reds selected for that, although one Ret Louder
is not going to pitch in it, which is fine.
I mean, I don't think Rehet Louder has much to
prove about competition or anything, because he has dominated the
(35:59):
big league level ready. It's just getting him innings and
it's great. He's not going to pitch in that game.
But Alfredo Duno, the catcher who was it Class A
last year, and Mike Leak, I mean not Mike Leak, sorry,
he's just right above this. The Cam Collier third basement
or infield er Cam Collier is also going to be
in that game, and that's, uh, that's good. So yeah,
(36:23):
but you know, I think it's this weekend.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
Okay, So what about Duno.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
Duno's impressive, Yeah, I mean, and also like he's playing.
His numbers aren't great in the Fall League this year,
but you're talking about a like nineteen twenty year old
catcher who just played a full season it a low
A ball and is holding his own in the Fall League.
(36:49):
And I think that's pretty impressive.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
That is. But he's not close, is he.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
I mean, he'll just don't start and Dayton next year.
But you know, like he is, he's a massive, massive individual,
but can also run, like you know, he had several
trying to remember how any triples he had last year?
Speaker 3 (37:11):
First catcher, whoa.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Oh have you let me? I'm gonna pull this up
real quick. Okay, going, but Alfredo Duno at nineteen in Lowe,
so even in Lowe, that's young. This year, he played
in one hundred and thirteen games, four ninety five played appearances,
(37:34):
hit to eighty seven, four thirty on base five eighteen
slug eighteen home runs in the in the Florida State League,
which is not an easy home place runs. He had
thirty two doubles and two triples.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
But two triples, Wow, that's I mean on base huh
at nineteen he's just a kid. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
So the reason he's like, well he's listed six two, two, ten,
I don't I don't think either of those are correct bigger. Yeah,
and then he's got a you might relate here, but
then he's like his face, he looks like a baby perfect,
but his you know, his physical stature is that of
(38:28):
not man.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Well, the reason I asked you if he's close, like,
and this is something we can delve into later because
I know we're running out of time. Does that affect
any kind of long term deal for Tyler?
Speaker 1 (38:42):
I think it's one of those things where I think
you could he's almost catchers take a.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
While, and but there's yeah, there's a lot learned.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
You know, he's you know, he's he's a guy like honestly,
he could be like his countryman, salth Perez. Now that's yeah,
I wouldn't expect that because you don't expect that because
Salvor Perez has been just a phenomenal career. Lifetime run.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
Yeah, sign a two year deal again, two year extension,
I think.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
Yeah, just amazing. So yeah, that's that's an interesting guy
to watch. If you watch the Fall Startist game, and
I think I have it right here, I'm gonna see
where it is. But yeah, it's uh, it's I love
the Arizona Fall League. You didn't play in it.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
Did you? I did not.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
It's a it's a fun, fun time. So yeah, Saturday,
November eight, six thirty Mountain time, which is thirty our time. Oh,
that's the home run derby, but it'll be on the eighth.
That's a a big part of it. So anyway, I
just wanted to get that in there, and uh, hey,
(40:03):
we'll be back next week. We'll talk about that next week.
You're gonna check out the Fall Stars game.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
I'm gonna try I'm actually going to Nashville this weekend
for hockey tournament with my kids, so leaving leaving, Uh well,
we got.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
Four games this weekend.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
So yeah, travel hockeyball like travel baseball, right, yeah, but
it's it's so much better because it's inside.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
You don't sweat.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
Well, uh, Danny, we will get back together next week,
next two, so you'll have the latest episode of Riverfront Territory.
Please subscribe to Riverfront Territory on YouTube and wherever you
get your podcast, share review, say nice things, yes, please both.
I mean Danny's wearing a lot of pink. It chose
(40:53):
his sensitive side.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
I'm very past.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
Oh you just froze, which is kind of funny. When
I'm talking about that. You said you're very and then
you just grow, so it's funny. But anyway, share with
you kindly give us five stars, please please, so yeah
that we would love that. Riverfront Territory is part of
the Foul Territory Network, So check out the other Foul
Territory shows including uh, you know the Big show, Fair Territory,
(41:23):
which is the major league show. And then we have
tons of every team or many teams have a podcast.
Speaker 3 (41:30):
Now so fifteen of them now, right.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
Fifteen, So that's half.
Speaker 3 (41:33):
Look at me in math that see it's a spreadsheet
at help with math d
Speaker 1 (41:40):
So until next time, I'm Trent Rosecrants and he is
Red's Hall of Famer Danny Graves.
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Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.