November 22, 2025 • 24 mins
Former Hollywood superstar and two time academy award winning actor, Kevin Spacey is apparently now a nightclub singer in Cyprus. In a fascinating interview, Spacey talks about his dramatic fall from fame amid the #metoo movement, why he thinks it happened and why he believes his redemption will happen.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
He is living out of suitcases, lost his home to
foreclosure in Baltimore, and yet he's a two time Oscar winner,
and he is speaking out for one of the very
first times since he lost everything to the Me Too movement.
We are talking about actor Kevin Spacey, and man, did
(00:25):
he have some pretty remarkable things to say TJ. This
has been a seven year saga for him right now,
and to go from being where he was in Hollywood
to being a lounge singer in Cyprus. What an incredible
fall from grace, But what an incredible story to tell
(00:48):
with so many lessons to learn.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Not done yet. This story isn't done yet and lessons
to be learned. He speaks, I guess in a way
we haven't heard him speak in this extended interview that
he did. We're getting into but you hear out lessons
learned for him, that there are lessons for all of
us to learn in this story about jumping to conclusions,
(01:10):
about throwing people out, about not waiting to hear both sides,
about not you know this is there are a lot
of lessons in this but this is a this is
a tough one to hear. And you know what I
was impressed. He sounded better than I thought same he would,
I'd said, wow, he sounds like he's yeah, you know what,
he sounds pretty good.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Yes, Kevin Spacey sat down with the Telegraph. And if
you have not read this article, regardless of how you
feel about him now as a person with the scandal
that has certainly plagued his life in every way possible,
but this is really one of those interesting interviews where
(01:52):
you actually get a different perspective. And I would argue
when you read this article, you might walk away feeling
differently about Heaven Spacey.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
I mean this that we don't know anything about him.
I don't realize I don't know anything about his personal
life other than his scandal or his trials. I really don't.
And so that, I guess is part of you start
filling in blanks to where I guess that Robes I
(02:21):
contributed to his undoing.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Yes, and he speaks about that in this article, which
is so fascinating. But I actually think it's really important
to start this conversation with this fact. No criminal or
civil court has ever found Kevin Spacey guilty or liable
of any sexual crimes or misdeeds. I bet you a
(02:45):
lot of people would be surprised to hear that, because
he has been put in a category maybe not as
awful as someone like Harvey Weinstein, but certainly in that
genre of the Matt Lowers and the Charlie Roses and
all of that. But the truth is he has actually
had several days in court and he has come out
on top every time.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
But the stain is there. It doesn't matter. Does it
matter if you're acquitted? Do you He's walking around an
innocent man in the eyes of the law. But I mean,
what else do you want to do? Who else knows
something more than that? And just the idea that you
have been accused of something. And again, I guess Robes,
(03:27):
it's different if you're accused of stealing money, it's versus
accused of the things we're talking about when we talk
about sexual assault, we talk about some any kind of
a sexual crime. I guess he's going to be viewed differently.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yes, And so I actually I was taken aback by
one of the first lines of this article. I actually
wrote the quote down because it rang true for me,
and it certainly it resonated with me. The cloud of
scandal can blow up in a single day and take
years to disperse, and that you and I have lived that,
(04:01):
so many people have lived that in different iterations, and
it just it spoke to me. Here's a man who
was a two time Oscar winner. You remember him in
American Beauty and the Usual Suspects. That movie was phenomenal,
and I was obsessed with House of Cards, Frank Underwood
playing the President.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
He was in the middle of the height of his career.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Truly, twenty seventeen, he's playing Frank Underwood. Obviously, he's been
in plenty of other movies. Seven La Confidential, The Social
Network Captain Phillips.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
I looked it up.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
He has ninety seven acting credits and forty producing credits to.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
His name in IMBD.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
This is a serious actor who has been awarded the
highest award you can possibly be given as an actor.
And right now he's homeless and has lost everything.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
And when I started looking more into what he actually
went through in terms of the legal his legal situation,
there was a lot and this was over years. I
couldn't imagine what that cost him to keep his freedom, right,
that's what you have to do. You have to defend yourself.
That was first and foremost, and he has no way.
(05:17):
He is an actor. This is his job and somebody,
I don't care what you're doing out there right now,
if somebody told you you can't do that job anymore for.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Anybody, the thing you do better than almost anyone else
on the planet.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Yes, and you were awarded, you were employee of the
month every month and you you just you.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
That's devastating to.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
What happened to him. So I guess, yeah, it started
making more sense why he would be homeless.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Yeah, he actually speaks to So the reporter in this
asked him specifically, you know, how are you doing, and
he said, let's just say my financial situation is not great.
And he specifically said the costs, the legal costs over
these last seven years have been astronomical. I mean, if
(06:02):
you think about it, he was at the top of
his game, bringing in gobsmacks millions upon millions of dollars,
and then you all of that goes out to pay
to your point, to defend yourself to actually you're purchasing
in a way, you're trying.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
To make sure you stay free. You don't want to
be imprisoned.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
He was facing criminal and civil charges in multiple cases,
so yeah, he said, I'm in hotels, I'm in airbnbs.
I literally am living out of suitcases. I'm going where
the work is, and apparently that's in Cyprus. He is
actually putting on acts as a nightclub singer.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
I didn't know he did. You know that about him
that I didn't.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
He said he started singing when he was eight. His
mother put on Frank Sinatra and he used to sing
in the shower. And I believe there were a couple
of roles where he said he he dabbled and.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Singing, But now he has gone full tilt.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
And he's telling stories while he's singing, playing the piano.
So it's kind of a night with Kevin Spacey and
people are heading Diciple to see.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
It was a packed house.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
I believe the reporters that he had two standing ovations,
so it's kind of becoming a thing. But he said,
this is a place where you don't have the scrutiny
of the media the way you do in the UK
or in America, And so he's living a certain way
of life in Cyprus right now.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
I mean, I don't mind that necessarily. We know where
he would like to be and what he'd liked to
be doing. This is guy's a stellar actor, and his
talents are being wasted obviously where he is. I don't
know what you do, Robes to get that stain off,
to get that thing off of you that somebody believes
(07:49):
about you, that didn't follow your trial every day that
didn't make as many headlines as a scandal and a
retweet and comments, and everybody pounding at the time, does
what do we do with folks who are exonerated? What
do we do with folks?
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Well, you know this is heartbreaking to read this article,
but yet also so enlightening. It's a constant reminder to
me to not rush to judgment, to not believe everything
you read, to not believe everything you even see, but
to give space for the fact that you might not
know everything, that you might not have all the answers.
(08:30):
And I just know how much I appreciated and regarded
him as an actor. And of course none of us
would want to applaud or cheer on or watch somebody
who was a convicted pedophile or somebody who had done
true sexual harm to someone else, say, but this is
somebody who has been put to the test and has
(08:52):
been exonerated. And I actually wanted to go through what
he has been through. So it was in twenty seventeen.
Do you remember this act after Anthony Rapp said that
Kevin Spacey made a sexual advance on him. That's how
it was put in nineteen eighty six, So at that time,
Kevin Spacey would have been twenty six and Anthony rap
(09:14):
would have been fourteen. And once Anthony rap made these accusations,
it was like it was in the middle. It was
the height of the meta movement, so you didn't have
to prove anything, just say somebody made an inappropriate sexual
advance towards you in twenty seventeen and you were done.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
So he was fired from House of Cards and.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
He literally has not found work since he was Also,
he had just shot All the Money in the World
in twenty seventeen. They actually decided, once these allegations were made,
to reshoot everything. They replaced him by Christopher Plummer. And
at that point, you've been kicked off House of Cards,
you've been replaced in a movie you already performed your
(10:00):
ask how do you come back from that?
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Didn't Plumber end up getting an Oscar nomination for that
role For some reason, I feel like I'm remembering that.
But yeah, they had to. They brought him in. That
movie was done, so.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
He's done, right. But guess what the jury sided with Spacey.
It took them little more than one hour to decide
that he did not sexually abuse rep. It didn't matter though,
because once that case came out, then there were others
to come out and accuse Spacey of what they said
(10:34):
was improper behavior.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
But guess what. They took him to criminal.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Court in London and in twenty twenty three the jury
found Spacey not guilty of assaulting. It was four men
while he was the artistic director of the old Vic
Theater there in London. They said he made inappropriate sexual advances.
All we can say is that a criminal court, a
jury in London said he was not criminally found guilty.
(11:02):
He was not guilty, and then here in the US,
a civil court found him not liable. So then what
do you do.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Nobody wants to work with him because they're worried about
what the public might say. The first person that puts
him in a movie, somebody in the public, somebody is
going to who didn't realize it's not going to do
Take a moment to go Google and find out that
he's been not guilty and not liable. They're not going
to take that moment. What they're going to do is
they go immediately jump on They just got to react
(11:33):
with outrage, and they're going to say, we should boycott
this movie, we should boycott this studio for putting him in.
That's what they're afraid of.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
And so I think it's fascinating everybody wants to write
somebody off who is one of the most talented actors
on the planet, who loved what he did and spent
his life doing it since he was eight years old.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
He's been performing. This was his love.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
So that's all taken away from him by allegations and
a movement where, by the way.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
No one knows what's happened behind closed doors and what
Kevin Spacey did or didn't do. I just all we
can base this off of is evidence that was presented
and a jury deciding in two separate occasions that there
was nothing improper done by Kevin Spacey. I just like,
I don't know, you think about going through your life
and flirting with someone, could someone take that the wrong way?
(12:26):
Who knows he admitted he said I have been too handsy.
He did say that, and he said, and touching someone
sexually in a way that I.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Didn't know at the time they didn't want.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
So he said, yes, maybe I was touchy, maybe I
was flirty, but at the time I didn't know they
weren't reciprocating or they didn't want me to.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
So he has said.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
That, but no one, no criminal court, no civil court,
has found him guilty of doing something inappropriate.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
But can you ever get past that to be embraced?
Can you? Can you ever get away from that thing?
You remember that awful allegation against jay Z and that
went away, But I mean still I think that was
such an outrage, and I guess they were able to
prove for whatever reason, that was brought to a higher
level where we.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Think they were actually approved.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
He wasn't where she said he was or what he
where he would have had to been.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
To do what she said he did.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
That's another it's just but still allegations. You just so,
it's one thing, Fine, he's found not guilty, but it
will The thing is, who in Hollywood was going to
put their arm around you and have their picture taken
with me?
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Is the thing he talks about this. So I told
you that this was so fascinating why he thinks this happened?
And you and I have had these conversations and this
resonated with me. He he said this, He said, why
was I such a good villain? Why did I fit
so well into a narrative that was out there? And
some of those were important questions for me to ask
(13:58):
and to take accountable accountability where I made mistakes. Here's
the interesting part. He said, I was secretive. No one
knew about me. I protected my privacy. It was Fort Knox.
People didn't really know me, so it was very easy
for people to stick a lot of labels on me
that were just not true. You and I have talked
about our biggest mistake was not being transparent. In fact,
(14:21):
if you try to keep your private life private.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
People will fill in the blanks.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
And if there is nothing to fill in, when someone
says the first bad thing about you, that's what people
will believe.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Yeah, because you got nothing to compare it to. You've
got nobody can fight for you or defend you or
speak up for you because they don't know. Nobody can.
We talked about a say fill in the blank that
this was. And I talked about this with you plenty,
and going through all we went through had a lot
(14:55):
to do with me at times being labeled as something
that a lot of people were comfortable with, viewing a
black man dating a white woman to be And so
you talk that you pointed out with this, you read
this article about Spacey, you were screaming through the house.
(15:18):
You are you are going to just not gonna believe
this because it's this is going to resonate with you
everything he.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Said, Yeah, and it's fascinating. When we come back, we're
going to talk about what Kevin Spacey said he wish
he had done and man, did this hit us very
close to home, and what he's hoping and what he
believes will happen going forward. Continuing our conversation now about
(15:55):
this fascinating article, we're finally hearing from two time Oscar
winning actor Kevin Spacey, who is now in Cyprus putting
on a lounge singing act, literally trying to pay the bills,
as he says, Hey, I'm homeless, I have no career.
I have lost everything from accusations, all of which I
(16:19):
have been exonerated of criminally and civilly. He's been sued,
he's been charged, and juries have all found him not guilty,
not liable, and yet his life, his career have been
taken from him. And he talked about how because he
was so private. So before this I didn't realize this.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Did you know if he was gay? Straight?
Speaker 1 (16:44):
He had never officially come out for these initial accusations one.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Hundred, specifically remembering being shocked, like, wait, what, No, I
had no idea.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
I had heard rumors, but he was never He was
so private, and part of that reason was because he
was gay. He did look he played Frank Underwood, the
President of the United States, married to the character of
Robin Wright. So yes, he played heterosexual leading men. A
lot of actors will tell you, as a gay man privately,
(17:16):
you might not want to advertise that you're gay if
you're playing playing.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
Heterosexual leading men. So he kept it private.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
When these accusations came out, he actually had to admit
he was gay for the first time. He was outed
in a way, but also being labeled the worst of
the worst as sexual predator. So this was so interesting,
he said, Do I think the media was interested in
not the truth but in creating a villain. Yes, I
(17:45):
suppose when I look back, I wish I had spoken
out sooner and allowed my voice to be heard more.
I have recognized that I did certain things. I made
certain decisions that I thought was protecting my work as
an actor, but in fact it was also protecting the
issues that I had about myself. That I was not
(18:06):
kind to myself about his sexual preference, his sexual identity.
That makes sense, and it makes the story even sadder
to me.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
That is sad. He was holding on to something he
was and it's the thing that cost him not being
honest with everybody about who he was. But at the
same time, what does he owe us? What does he
owe any of us? He can live his life however
the hell he chooses to do so, but he sounds
(18:40):
like he gets it and he's been able to reflect.
But that is a tough tough pill to swallow because
we strike that balance all the time. How much do
you let somebody into your life and then once you
do a little bit, then they say, well, we have
a right to all of it. What can you protect anymore?
That's tough to hear.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Man, it really was.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
It struck a chord with me, but it's so interesting.
You actually went there with exactly what you said, because
in the article he talks about how.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
He used to get annoyed, you know.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
He said, Yeah, people would constantly come up to you
and constantly want a piece of you. It's like you
owed people some of yourself. And he said he had
a bad attitude about it. He said, I'll be honest,
but he said that he was always impressed with it
was Jack Lemon correct. He said that he was there
(19:36):
with him and watching him handle people coming up to him,
and he said, does that bother you? You must have
been stopped so many times. He said, this is before
I was famous. And he said, listen, it might be
my sixty five to fifth time, but it's there first.
And so he said he's now remembering that lesson from
Jack Lemon, and he said the thing that used to
(19:58):
bug him the most about Fai, about people wanting to
come up to him wanting a piece of him. He
reminds himself, Yeah, this may be the tenth time today
somebody did this to me or the hunt, but.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
It's there first.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
And he realized that part of his success as an
actor in connecting with people is understanding that part of
fame that he kind of through a blind eye to
and almost kind of was flippant about. But actually, the
relationship he says he now has with Fame has completely changed,
and now he's more grateful and just understanding that other
(20:35):
people this is very exciting to them, and that's part
of the relationship you need to have a healthy relationship
you can have with fame. It was just he's saying
it's something he's come around to after everything he's been
to throw over these past seven years.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
I mean, I can't imagine. I just I that compare.
It made me think of something that folks on Broadway
talk about all the time, Right, how many shows a
week do they do? Eight seven eight? Wait? Is that it? Yes?
And you have to repeat that over and over again.
And people have traveled thousands of miles for this one
moment with you, and you have to treat it every
(21:10):
moment like it is the opening night and biggest deal
in the world. And yeah, that idea, I mean, just
the I I get it that we dealt with nothing
on the level of him. No, but you have to
be grateful and you appreciate anybody who would take the
time to scream out your name or bother you in public,
(21:31):
or come over to you or anything else somebody cares
enough to do. So it is there's something that comes
with it.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Yes, and there is a happy ending to all of this,
just to see where he is, with where he is
in his life and I love. He's like, I have
to go like I did early in my career. I
have to go where the work is, and right now,
the works in Cyprus, and that's where I am. But
he did say this, and this made me hugh. He said,
(21:58):
my feeling is if Martin Scorse or Quentin Tarantino call
his manager tomorrow, it'll be over. He's like, I just
need one person to stand up and bring him back
to life. He's like, I need one person. It has
to be the right person. It has to be a
big fish. But one person has to believe in me
to say I'll give you another chance, and everyone will forget.
(22:22):
And he said he believes it's going to happen. I
hope it does for I do too, because he is talented,
like beyond talented.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Beyond that, I mean, doesn't he deserve to be able
to work? And he's right, it just somebody needs to
give the rest of Hollywood permission to work with this guy,
and it does. It has to be a big fish.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
It's fascinating to think about it that way.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
But I wanted to end this on a really positive
note because I think you and I again can absolutely
understand where Kevin's face he is coming from. Despite everything
he's been through and everything he's lost, he is literally
living in and out of suitcases. And this is what
he told this reporter. I am so much happier and
(23:13):
more comfortable. I'm not putting a hat on and ducking
out of buildings. I am walking with my head high,
no glasses on my face, no hat, nothing to hide.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Good for him, Good for him. Yeah, we'll see him
back on screen. Don't know whether that first role, how
big it's going to be, but I'll watch it.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
And it was good to hear from him. It really
was love to him sounding good.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
He sounds good.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
And by the way, the reporter who sat through his
show said it was amazing for standing ovations.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
He did a meet and greet afterwards.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
And people he he was being celebrated by this small
crowd in Cyprus, And you know what, sometimes it's good
to be a big fish in a small ocean, especially
when you've been in a lot of other environments and
you've seen what the cost can be. I'm happy to
hear he's doing well, and with that everyone, we thank
(24:14):
you for listening to us. We appreciate you as always.
I'm Amy Roboc alongside TJ.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
Holmes. We will talk to you soon.
He is living out of suitcases, lost his home to
foreclosure in Baltimore, and yet he's a two time Oscar winner,
and he is speaking out for one of the very
first times since he lost everything to the Me Too movement.
We are talking about actor Kevin Spacey, and man, did
(00:25):
he have some pretty remarkable things to say TJ. This
has been a seven year saga for him right now,
and to go from being where he was in Hollywood
to being a lounge singer in Cyprus. What an incredible
fall from grace, But what an incredible story to tell
(00:48):
with so many lessons to learn.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Not done yet. This story isn't done yet and lessons
to be learned. He speaks, I guess in a way
we haven't heard him speak in this extended interview that
he did. We're getting into but you hear out lessons
learned for him, that there are lessons for all of
us to learn in this story about jumping to conclusions,
(01:10):
about throwing people out, about not waiting to hear both sides,
about not you know this is there are a lot
of lessons in this but this is a this is
a tough one to hear. And you know what I
was impressed. He sounded better than I thought same he would,
I'd said, wow, he sounds like he's yeah, you know what,
he sounds pretty good.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Yes, Kevin Spacey sat down with the Telegraph. And if
you have not read this article, regardless of how you
feel about him now as a person with the scandal
that has certainly plagued his life in every way possible,
but this is really one of those interesting interviews where
(01:52):
you actually get a different perspective. And I would argue
when you read this article, you might walk away feeling
differently about Heaven Spacey.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
I mean this that we don't know anything about him.
I don't realize I don't know anything about his personal
life other than his scandal or his trials. I really don't.
And so that, I guess is part of you start
filling in blanks to where I guess that Robes I
(02:21):
contributed to his undoing.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Yes, and he speaks about that in this article, which
is so fascinating. But I actually think it's really important
to start this conversation with this fact. No criminal or
civil court has ever found Kevin Spacey guilty or liable
of any sexual crimes or misdeeds. I bet you a
(02:45):
lot of people would be surprised to hear that, because
he has been put in a category maybe not as
awful as someone like Harvey Weinstein, but certainly in that
genre of the Matt Lowers and the Charlie Roses and
all of that. But the truth is he has actually
had several days in court and he has come out
on top every time.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
But the stain is there. It doesn't matter. Does it
matter if you're acquitted? Do you He's walking around an
innocent man in the eyes of the law. But I mean,
what else do you want to do? Who else knows
something more than that? And just the idea that you
have been accused of something. And again, I guess Robes,
(03:27):
it's different if you're accused of stealing money, it's versus
accused of the things we're talking about when we talk
about sexual assault, we talk about some any kind of
a sexual crime. I guess he's going to be viewed differently.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yes, And so I actually I was taken aback by
one of the first lines of this article. I actually
wrote the quote down because it rang true for me,
and it certainly it resonated with me. The cloud of
scandal can blow up in a single day and take
years to disperse, and that you and I have lived that,
(04:01):
so many people have lived that in different iterations, and
it just it spoke to me. Here's a man who
was a two time Oscar winner. You remember him in
American Beauty and the Usual Suspects. That movie was phenomenal,
and I was obsessed with House of Cards, Frank Underwood
playing the President.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
He was in the middle of the height of his career.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Truly, twenty seventeen, he's playing Frank Underwood. Obviously, he's been
in plenty of other movies. Seven La Confidential, The Social
Network Captain Phillips.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
I looked it up.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
He has ninety seven acting credits and forty producing credits to.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
His name in IMBD.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
This is a serious actor who has been awarded the
highest award you can possibly be given as an actor.
And right now he's homeless and has lost everything.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
And when I started looking more into what he actually
went through in terms of the legal his legal situation,
there was a lot and this was over years. I
couldn't imagine what that cost him to keep his freedom, right,
that's what you have to do. You have to defend yourself.
That was first and foremost, and he has no way.
(05:17):
He is an actor. This is his job and somebody,
I don't care what you're doing out there right now,
if somebody told you you can't do that job anymore for.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Anybody, the thing you do better than almost anyone else
on the planet.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Yes, and you were awarded, you were employee of the
month every month and you you just you.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
That's devastating to.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
What happened to him. So I guess, yeah, it started
making more sense why he would be homeless.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Yeah, he actually speaks to So the reporter in this
asked him specifically, you know, how are you doing, and
he said, let's just say my financial situation is not great.
And he specifically said the costs, the legal costs over
these last seven years have been astronomical. I mean, if
(06:02):
you think about it, he was at the top of
his game, bringing in gobsmacks millions upon millions of dollars,
and then you all of that goes out to pay
to your point, to defend yourself to actually you're purchasing
in a way, you're trying.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
To make sure you stay free. You don't want to
be imprisoned.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
He was facing criminal and civil charges in multiple cases,
so yeah, he said, I'm in hotels, I'm in airbnbs.
I literally am living out of suitcases. I'm going where
the work is, and apparently that's in Cyprus. He is
actually putting on acts as a nightclub singer.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
I didn't know he did. You know that about him
that I didn't.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
He said he started singing when he was eight. His
mother put on Frank Sinatra and he used to sing
in the shower. And I believe there were a couple
of roles where he said he he dabbled and.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Singing, But now he has gone full tilt.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
And he's telling stories while he's singing, playing the piano.
So it's kind of a night with Kevin Spacey and
people are heading Diciple to see.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
It was a packed house.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
I believe the reporters that he had two standing ovations,
so it's kind of becoming a thing. But he said,
this is a place where you don't have the scrutiny
of the media the way you do in the UK
or in America, And so he's living a certain way
of life in Cyprus right now.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
I mean, I don't mind that necessarily. We know where
he would like to be and what he'd liked to
be doing. This is guy's a stellar actor, and his
talents are being wasted obviously where he is. I don't
know what you do, Robes to get that stain off,
to get that thing off of you that somebody believes
(07:49):
about you, that didn't follow your trial every day that
didn't make as many headlines as a scandal and a
retweet and comments, and everybody pounding at the time, does
what do we do with folks who are exonerated? What
do we do with folks?
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Well, you know this is heartbreaking to read this article,
but yet also so enlightening. It's a constant reminder to
me to not rush to judgment, to not believe everything
you read, to not believe everything you even see, but
to give space for the fact that you might not
know everything, that you might not have all the answers.
(08:30):
And I just know how much I appreciated and regarded
him as an actor. And of course none of us
would want to applaud or cheer on or watch somebody
who was a convicted pedophile or somebody who had done
true sexual harm to someone else, say, but this is
somebody who has been put to the test and has
(08:52):
been exonerated. And I actually wanted to go through what
he has been through. So it was in twenty seventeen.
Do you remember this act after Anthony Rapp said that
Kevin Spacey made a sexual advance on him. That's how
it was put in nineteen eighty six, So at that time,
Kevin Spacey would have been twenty six and Anthony rap
(09:14):
would have been fourteen. And once Anthony rap made these accusations,
it was like it was in the middle. It was
the height of the meta movement, so you didn't have
to prove anything, just say somebody made an inappropriate sexual
advance towards you in twenty seventeen and you were done.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
So he was fired from House of Cards and.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
He literally has not found work since he was Also,
he had just shot All the Money in the World
in twenty seventeen. They actually decided, once these allegations were made,
to reshoot everything. They replaced him by Christopher Plummer. And
at that point, you've been kicked off House of Cards,
you've been replaced in a movie you already performed your
(10:00):
ask how do you come back from that?
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Didn't Plumber end up getting an Oscar nomination for that
role For some reason, I feel like I'm remembering that.
But yeah, they had to. They brought him in. That
movie was done, so.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
He's done, right. But guess what the jury sided with Spacey.
It took them little more than one hour to decide
that he did not sexually abuse rep. It didn't matter though,
because once that case came out, then there were others
to come out and accuse Spacey of what they said
(10:34):
was improper behavior.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
But guess what. They took him to criminal.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Court in London and in twenty twenty three the jury
found Spacey not guilty of assaulting. It was four men
while he was the artistic director of the old Vic
Theater there in London. They said he made inappropriate sexual advances.
All we can say is that a criminal court, a
jury in London said he was not criminally found guilty.
(11:02):
He was not guilty, and then here in the US,
a civil court found him not liable. So then what
do you do.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Nobody wants to work with him because they're worried about
what the public might say. The first person that puts
him in a movie, somebody in the public, somebody is
going to who didn't realize it's not going to do
Take a moment to go Google and find out that
he's been not guilty and not liable. They're not going
to take that moment. What they're going to do is
they go immediately jump on They just got to react
(11:33):
with outrage, and they're going to say, we should boycott
this movie, we should boycott this studio for putting him in.
That's what they're afraid of.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
And so I think it's fascinating everybody wants to write
somebody off who is one of the most talented actors
on the planet, who loved what he did and spent
his life doing it since he was eight years old.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
He's been performing. This was his love.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
So that's all taken away from him by allegations and
a movement where, by the way.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
No one knows what's happened behind closed doors and what
Kevin Spacey did or didn't do. I just all we
can base this off of is evidence that was presented
and a jury deciding in two separate occasions that there
was nothing improper done by Kevin Spacey. I just like,
I don't know, you think about going through your life
and flirting with someone, could someone take that the wrong way?
(12:26):
Who knows he admitted he said I have been too handsy.
He did say that, and he said, and touching someone
sexually in a way that I.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Didn't know at the time they didn't want.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
So he said, yes, maybe I was touchy, maybe I
was flirty, but at the time I didn't know they
weren't reciprocating or they didn't want me to.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
So he has said.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
That, but no one, no criminal court, no civil court,
has found him guilty of doing something inappropriate.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
But can you ever get past that to be embraced?
Can you? Can you ever get away from that thing?
You remember that awful allegation against jay Z and that
went away, But I mean still I think that was
such an outrage, and I guess they were able to
prove for whatever reason, that was brought to a higher
level where we.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Think they were actually approved.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
He wasn't where she said he was or what he
where he would have had to been.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
To do what she said he did.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
That's another it's just but still allegations. You just so,
it's one thing, Fine, he's found not guilty, but it
will The thing is, who in Hollywood was going to
put their arm around you and have their picture taken
with me?
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Is the thing he talks about this. So I told
you that this was so fascinating why he thinks this happened?
And you and I have had these conversations and this
resonated with me. He he said this, He said, why
was I such a good villain? Why did I fit
so well into a narrative that was out there? And
some of those were important questions for me to ask
(13:58):
and to take accountable accountability where I made mistakes. Here's
the interesting part. He said, I was secretive. No one
knew about me. I protected my privacy. It was Fort Knox.
People didn't really know me, so it was very easy
for people to stick a lot of labels on me
that were just not true. You and I have talked
about our biggest mistake was not being transparent. In fact,
(14:21):
if you try to keep your private life private.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
People will fill in the blanks.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
And if there is nothing to fill in, when someone
says the first bad thing about you, that's what people
will believe.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Yeah, because you got nothing to compare it to. You've
got nobody can fight for you or defend you or
speak up for you because they don't know. Nobody can.
We talked about a say fill in the blank that
this was. And I talked about this with you plenty,
and going through all we went through had a lot
(14:55):
to do with me at times being labeled as something
that a lot of people were comfortable with, viewing a
black man dating a white woman to be And so
you talk that you pointed out with this, you read
this article about Spacey, you were screaming through the house.
(15:18):
You are you are going to just not gonna believe
this because it's this is going to resonate with you
everything he.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Said, Yeah, and it's fascinating. When we come back, we're
going to talk about what Kevin Spacey said he wish
he had done and man, did this hit us very
close to home, and what he's hoping and what he
believes will happen going forward. Continuing our conversation now about
(15:55):
this fascinating article, we're finally hearing from two time Oscar
winning actor Kevin Spacey, who is now in Cyprus putting
on a lounge singing act, literally trying to pay the bills,
as he says, Hey, I'm homeless, I have no career.
I have lost everything from accusations, all of which I
(16:19):
have been exonerated of criminally and civilly. He's been sued,
he's been charged, and juries have all found him not guilty,
not liable, and yet his life, his career have been
taken from him. And he talked about how because he
was so private. So before this I didn't realize this.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Did you know if he was gay? Straight?
Speaker 1 (16:44):
He had never officially come out for these initial accusations one.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Hundred, specifically remembering being shocked, like, wait, what, No, I
had no idea.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
I had heard rumors, but he was never He was
so private, and part of that reason was because he
was gay. He did look he played Frank Underwood, the
President of the United States, married to the character of
Robin Wright. So yes, he played heterosexual leading men. A
lot of actors will tell you, as a gay man privately,
(17:16):
you might not want to advertise that you're gay if
you're playing playing.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
Heterosexual leading men. So he kept it private.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
When these accusations came out, he actually had to admit
he was gay for the first time. He was outed
in a way, but also being labeled the worst of
the worst as sexual predator. So this was so interesting,
he said, Do I think the media was interested in
not the truth but in creating a villain. Yes, I
(17:45):
suppose when I look back, I wish I had spoken
out sooner and allowed my voice to be heard more.
I have recognized that I did certain things. I made
certain decisions that I thought was protecting my work as
an actor, but in fact it was also protecting the
issues that I had about myself. That I was not
(18:06):
kind to myself about his sexual preference, his sexual identity.
That makes sense, and it makes the story even sadder
to me.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
That is sad. He was holding on to something he
was and it's the thing that cost him not being
honest with everybody about who he was. But at the
same time, what does he owe us? What does he
owe any of us? He can live his life however
the hell he chooses to do so, but he sounds
(18:40):
like he gets it and he's been able to reflect.
But that is a tough tough pill to swallow because
we strike that balance all the time. How much do
you let somebody into your life and then once you
do a little bit, then they say, well, we have
a right to all of it. What can you protect anymore?
That's tough to hear.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Man, it really was.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
It struck a chord with me, but it's so interesting.
You actually went there with exactly what you said, because
in the article he talks about how.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
He used to get annoyed, you know.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
He said, Yeah, people would constantly come up to you
and constantly want a piece of you. It's like you
owed people some of yourself. And he said he had
a bad attitude about it. He said, I'll be honest,
but he said that he was always impressed with it
was Jack Lemon correct. He said that he was there
(19:36):
with him and watching him handle people coming up to him,
and he said, does that bother you? You must have
been stopped so many times. He said, this is before
I was famous. And he said, listen, it might be
my sixty five to fifth time, but it's there first.
And so he said he's now remembering that lesson from
Jack Lemon, and he said the thing that used to
(19:58):
bug him the most about Fai, about people wanting to
come up to him wanting a piece of him. He
reminds himself, Yeah, this may be the tenth time today
somebody did this to me or the hunt, but.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
It's there first.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
And he realized that part of his success as an
actor in connecting with people is understanding that part of
fame that he kind of through a blind eye to
and almost kind of was flippant about. But actually, the
relationship he says he now has with Fame has completely changed,
and now he's more grateful and just understanding that other
(20:35):
people this is very exciting to them, and that's part
of the relationship you need to have a healthy relationship
you can have with fame. It was just he's saying
it's something he's come around to after everything he's been
to throw over these past seven years.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
I mean, I can't imagine. I just I that compare.
It made me think of something that folks on Broadway
talk about all the time, Right, how many shows a
week do they do? Eight seven eight? Wait? Is that it? Yes?
And you have to repeat that over and over again.
And people have traveled thousands of miles for this one
moment with you, and you have to treat it every
(21:10):
moment like it is the opening night and biggest deal
in the world. And yeah, that idea, I mean, just
the I I get it that we dealt with nothing
on the level of him. No, but you have to
be grateful and you appreciate anybody who would take the
time to scream out your name or bother you in public,
(21:31):
or come over to you or anything else somebody cares
enough to do. So it is there's something that comes
with it.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Yes, and there is a happy ending to all of this,
just to see where he is, with where he is
in his life and I love. He's like, I have
to go like I did early in my career. I
have to go where the work is, and right now,
the works in Cyprus, and that's where I am. But
he did say this, and this made me hugh. He said,
(21:58):
my feeling is if Martin Scorse or Quentin Tarantino call
his manager tomorrow, it'll be over. He's like, I just
need one person to stand up and bring him back
to life. He's like, I need one person. It has
to be the right person. It has to be a
big fish. But one person has to believe in me
to say I'll give you another chance, and everyone will forget.
(22:22):
And he said he believes it's going to happen. I
hope it does for I do too, because he is talented,
like beyond talented.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Beyond that, I mean, doesn't he deserve to be able
to work? And he's right, it just somebody needs to
give the rest of Hollywood permission to work with this guy,
and it does. It has to be a big fish.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
It's fascinating to think about it that way.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
But I wanted to end this on a really positive
note because I think you and I again can absolutely
understand where Kevin's face he is coming from. Despite everything
he's been through and everything he's lost, he is literally
living in and out of suitcases. And this is what
he told this reporter. I am so much happier and
(23:13):
more comfortable. I'm not putting a hat on and ducking
out of buildings. I am walking with my head high,
no glasses on my face, no hat, nothing to hide.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Good for him, Good for him. Yeah, we'll see him
back on screen. Don't know whether that first role, how
big it's going to be, but I'll watch it.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
And it was good to hear from him. It really
was love to him sounding good.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
He sounds good.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
And by the way, the reporter who sat through his
show said it was amazing for standing ovations.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
He did a meet and greet afterwards.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
And people he he was being celebrated by this small
crowd in Cyprus, And you know what, sometimes it's good
to be a big fish in a small ocean, especially
when you've been in a lot of other environments and
you've seen what the cost can be. I'm happy to
hear he's doing well, and with that everyone, we thank
(24:14):
you for listening to us. We appreciate you as always.
I'm Amy Roboc alongside TJ.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
Holmes. We will talk to you soon.
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