September 13, 2025 • 31 mins
ABC just announced Taylor Frankie Paul as the new Bachelorette.
This is worth the relisten to gain insight on what to expect for the new season.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Taylor, Folks, got a question for you on this episode today.
Are you team Taylor? Are you team Whitney? And if
you don't know what I'm talking about right now, you
are out of the loop or under a rock. Kayler, Folks,
Welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Robes. Sitting
next to me, Robes, we have talked to several people
the last couple of days we said we are interviewing
the women from the Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. What
(00:27):
has been the reaction we've gotten from everybody in niversal?
My gosh, I'm obsessed.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
And you know this show has been out not even
for a full week, correct, and it's already it's number
one on Hulu.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Everyone's talking about it.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I was excited to have a reason for research purposes
to have to watch the show, and that's all I've
been doing for us.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
In all seriousness, were you really trying to find a
way to make an excuse for why you needed to
watch it because you felt like I should I shouldn't
be watching that type.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Of smart You know, the answer is absolutely.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
I watched ninety Beyonce Married at First Sight, Love Island,
Love is Blind, full disclosure.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
I love some reality.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
So let's be honest, full disclosure here. I watch plenty
of those with you. This one is different for a
very specific reason that we'll get into. But right now
we need to welcome into the studio folks. They are
sitting right here in front of us, two ladies who
are looking for tickets to the Book of Mormons. If
you have this long broadway they would appreciate. With Taylor Freaky,
(01:33):
Paul Macy Neely, Welcome, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Welcome to guys.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
You guys are entertaining to listen to.
Speaker 5 (01:40):
I love your voices.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Thank you.
Speaker 5 (01:42):
You're the news background.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Oh okay, yes, decades of training.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Yeah, so so okay, with that background, you know we're journalists.
We're going to get right to it. So tell us
season two. Is it confirmed? Is it happening?
Speaker 5 (01:55):
It's not confirmed, but I have a feeling.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
We hope, yeah, but we don't know anything.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Do you know when you'll know? Have they given you
an idea?
Speaker 4 (02:03):
If I think, if it's happening, it'll be here very soon,
I think, But I guess. I guess we're not the
ones who call the shots, so real, we know good.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Hell, well, this thing is getting renewed. Is there anybody
show a hands in the room who thinks this is not?
Of course is getting renewed, but it's a congratulations. Any question?
What has life looked like since? And again it's only
would you say it.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Six days or something? It's like four, Oh yeah, well
what was it?
Speaker 5 (02:28):
Friday? Came out Friday?
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Wow, as we sit here, you're only a few days in.
How has life changed even in the matter of days
since the show hit who it.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Hasn't hit us?
Speaker 5 (02:37):
Yeah, it like hasn't hit us yet.
Speaker 6 (02:39):
I think that what's changed, just like all the comments
in all the buzz, Like if we open social media,
all we see is ourselves, which is it like normal?
So I feel like that's the weirdest part is like
seeing all the buzz and I'm like, whoa, Like this
is bigger than we anticipated or I ever thought it
would be.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
Yeah, I mean I think going places too, I don't
think we kind of knew, like because in our circle
we're kind of like, well no, i'd say, like people
know us in Utah, you know, but we're going to
the airport now and like everyone's stopping here, can we
get a picture? And it's so weird it's like it's different.
Speaker 5 (03:08):
It's I don't know nationwide. Yeah, it's like weird y.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Have you all watched the episodes back I have?
Speaker 1 (03:15):
She has it?
Speaker 4 (03:16):
No, I get it. It came out Friday I spent so
I have part time with my kids, and so I
got them back for those three days before I left town.
So I was like, I'm not going to sit and
watch the show. Obviously, don't want it on my screen
with my kids watching. It's like my backstory. I didn't
want it. So no, I have not gone to it.
I know, people don't blame me, like you definitely have
seen it. I was like, I literally haven't.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Okay, Macie, so what do you think having seen.
Speaker 5 (03:38):
It it is? I mean it's pretty good.
Speaker 6 (03:41):
I think it's hard when you watch yourself in it,
You're like, no, it's like a whole movie. Like it
doesn't seem like a real like production, right because I
just see me and my friends on the like on
the TV screen. But I mean it was juicy for sure,
Like it was crazy to see how much was cut
out compared to how much we filmed.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Too.
Speaker 6 (03:56):
I was like, this almost seems like a highlight reel
of what we filmed because we filmed so much.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Or a low light in some moments.
Speaker 5 (04:03):
Oh yeah, for sure. True.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Yeah, I'm curious. I don't know how much people want
to give away about what ends up happening. And I
actually read ahead because it is juicy. That is probably
a very light word to use, but everyone knows if.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
You've got girl groups. I was talking to TJ about it.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
You know, it gets messy and it gets difficult sometimes
we have all these different personalities. But I know that
there were problems going into the show based on what happened,
And we'll get into the backstory of this. But did
this do further damage being on the show to already
thinly put together friendships that were barely hanging on?
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Did this destroy friendships doing the show?
Speaker 5 (04:51):
Yes and no.
Speaker 6 (04:52):
I should say like some of us got closer and
then some of us didn't.
Speaker 5 (04:56):
And I think there's like a bit of a divide
right now.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
For sure, Why are you giggling? You? You immediately reacted
to what she said.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
Why it's just funny, Like I guess now the girls
have seen it. We were told, yeah, you're gonna have
broken friendships. Oh like really, and then there has been yeah.
Speaker 6 (05:11):
Yeah, it's starting to happen right now behind the scenes,
so it's yeah, there's like drama going on behind the
scenes with everything.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
So it's funny, like it's just the people you don't think.
Sometimes it's just like, oh.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Is it irreparable though irreparable harm that's being done or
just things that are going to take time to.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
Get past for me, things that will take time. Like
I feel like I'm pretty forgive. I haven't seen the show,
so I don't know if I'm forgiving you this show,
but like I feel like I'm pretty forgiving, especially with girlfriends,
and so I feel like if any damage is done,
I I'll be able to forgive. We'll just be straight
up Whitney right now, you know, it's going through the mud.
And so I feel like I was saying this earlier,
(05:50):
like I'll always she helped me in a very dark place,
like when I was at my lowest, and so even
though she might not be a fan of me, like
I'm gonna be here for her during this cause I've
been her exact spot and so I just feel for
her at this point.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Is it true that everyone has unfollowed Whitney.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
I mean I haven't, but I don't know if she's
in following me, but I think all the other girls
haven't followed her. Yeah, And I don't know. It's hard.
Like I know they're like very like upset and they
have all these feelings into they can. But I feel
like I just have been in Whitney's spot of that
villain and and it's like out of hurt too, and
she's reacting and I think it's out of she's just hurting,
and so like for me, I feel for I'm like
(06:26):
I see myself and so I'm not going to add
to that. I'm only going to be here for her.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Have you all reached out? Have you all tried? Is
there any communication with Whitney right now?
Speaker 4 (06:35):
Yeah, I'm here for you no matter what.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
But is there back and forth or was just kind
of one way right now?
Speaker 6 (06:39):
I mean I reached out to her and she han't respond,
but I guess she's responding to.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Taylor, And she responded to you, Taylor.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
She did, and she like kind of just broke her
feelings down and her reasonings. And I haven't responded because
we've been on the go, and so I know to
like take a minute to read all of it and
then respond.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
It's interesting you point out and we have a little
history and knowing what it feels like when people when
they're listening to a story, and obviously there are lots
of different sides, but people want a good guy, and
they want a bad guy or a villain and a saint,
a saint in a sinner. I think one of the
episodes is even called Saints and Sinners. Have you like,
I feel like basically somehow you've never actually been in
(07:17):
the bad guy situation as if yet not.
Speaker 6 (07:20):
Yeah, I mean towards the end, like kind of can
go both ways, and like that end kind of makes
me look a little bit like a villain. At least
when I watched it, I was.
Speaker 5 (07:27):
Like, uh oh, but like that wasn't the intention.
Speaker 6 (07:30):
They did cut a scene where I asked Taylor's permission
to call this person who's like involved in Dakota's past,
but they cut that out, so I was like, Dan,
that actually kind of makes me look a little bit
like a villain. But if they saw it wasn't cut.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
No, I'm just cadding she's a good friend. So it's
like hard when you're like.
Speaker 6 (07:47):
I wouldn't say I'm like a natural villain like I
would just say, like, I'm not man, I'm perfect. I'm
just kidding. No, But I I just like love my
friendships and I hate when people, yeah, and I hate
when people are so hot cold Michel, I can't we
all just like be friends?
Speaker 5 (08:01):
Like how hard is it to get along? Like I
don't understand.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Apparently it's really hard.
Speaker 6 (08:04):
Yeah, And I understand because like you have eight strong,
like minded women, like we all are like opinionated, like granted,
like potsfried By were on a reality show together, because
so there's bound to be conflicts, right, like it's just natural.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
And please know when I asked, we're only three episodes in.
Let you know that. So when I asked, I said, okay,
I know who're interview. Got Taylor, got Mace, and I
came in that like came around the corner. I said, okay,
which one is Macy's Again, she said she's Switzerland. That's
how she rides been able to go back and forth
with two different groups at least. I think we're on
(08:38):
episode four, by the way, but she suggested that that
might have been stressful or difficult for you. When even
I opened this episode talking about Team Whitney R Team
it seems like everybody needs to take a split outside
and you are going back and forth, and what does
that continue with you now? The stress of having to
try to manage kind of keep the whole team together
in a certain way.
Speaker 6 (08:59):
I feel like right now now I'm not I'm not
even thinking about it and when there's too much going on.
But during the show, I feel like it was the
biggest stressor for me. Was like I feel like I
was always in between two groups and it was hard
because now I feel like I'm seeing online like on
social people are being like, oh, she's playing both sides,
like she's the smart one, she's the staring the problem,
Like actually no, I was stuck between two sides and
(09:20):
it was so stressful because like then when bore are
they saying about me? And I'm like, I'm not saying anything,
and the was Whatney saying. I'm like, I don't want
to say anything, like I just want to be friends
with everybody, and like, apparently that's an issue and I don't, like, yeah,
that's like a problem.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
People want people to take sides. I think a lot
of times true, Taylor.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
I want to ask you, because how this all began. Obviously,
I learned a lot about what is it soft swinging is.
We don't need to go into all of that because
I think that's been heavily discussed. However, I did have
a question because we started watching the episode and it
starts out right after all of that, and presumably when
you all got the show the TikTok that went viral,
(10:06):
you had been accused of cheating or being a man
or a husband stealer, and you said, hold up, everyone
was involved or a lot of folks were involved in
this soft swinging, so it was agreed upon consensual mutual
so I'm not the bad guy here. But then, of
course many of your friends and the friend group felt
like they then had to defend themselves say hey, it
(10:27):
wasn't me. There are a lot of questions swirling around.
Is anyone who was on the show now a part
of that group without naming names? Or are these all
people we haven't heard or seen before.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
The second one? So yeah, no one was involved on
the cast shown.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Now, yeah, do you feel like you made that clear?
Speaker 2 (10:46):
And that maybe that's why some of the girls were
upset that they didn't feel like their names were cleared
by you.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
Now, I feel like it's very cleared. I don't know
how much they show on the show, but I think
I've cleared that up now and especially in the interviews
as well, like we've all said, know, like none of
the cast is like involved other than myself. Yeah, So
I feel like that's clear, But I don't know. Is
there still questions do you think out there?
Speaker 6 (11:07):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Absolutely, because anything anybody told me about this show about
Mormon wives, Oh they're swinging, did you not know?
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Thinking who's denying it? They just don't want to admit it.
So I think.
Speaker 4 (11:23):
Here's it's hard is because we are in like the
TikTok world and that's our jobs and we do that
and there's mom talk, right, So you have people that
were involved in there and then they're not on the show.
So it is very like people cannot connect. But I
think if you have been there and you did the research,
it's not hard to pinpoint who.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Is and who is I haven't done.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
We have more homework so that some further interviews. But
we started out.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
You started out thinking you were pregnant, you had I
believe a miscarriage, and then almost a full year goes
by before you start filming again. Yeah, obviously you were arrested.
Anybody can do that Google search as well. What happened
to you during that year and what made you decide
to start filming again?
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Give us fill in that gap for us.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
Yeah, I feel like it was like a transformative time.
I would say, I feel like when I started to film,
you can see it clear as day. I'm I know
you haven't like finished, but I'm a different person. It's
episode one, And then I think, I you know, I'm
a completely different person going forward in the show, you know,
And so I feel like in the beginning would have
(12:35):
been chaos if we kept filming. I can't imagine the
show because I was like, you can just tell them
like I don't care, I don't give an f about
anything or anyone. I was just in a hurting phase
and I just like was so angry, I think, and
then I've yeah, I was dating Dakota, I went through
the miscar or the ectopic pregnancy. So I feel like
I got softer within time, and like more empathetic towards
(12:56):
others and like how they're feeling, because in the beginning,
I'm like, I don't care why anyone's feelings, Like I
hate all of you, like anyone that did me wrong,
you know. And so I feel like during that process,
I could empathize with people and like I just learned
a lot and I went through a lot, like of
mental health stuff. Like I feel like I was very
low in that time too, and I went to EMDR therapy.
Lots of issues in my relationship, like we were really
(13:20):
trying to make it working after an ectopic pregnancy of
loss and like you're barely hanging on, like Rocky we
just met, so like I'm so like it was shocking
that we're still together, you know, after all of that,
but working on that and then yeah, I got pregnant
again and that was I think that was no accident,
Like I wanted that. I think from the loss, I
was just like so hurting and I wanted I wanted
a child. I wanted that child, you know that I
(13:41):
had lost, so like I wanted that and he did too,
And so I feel like there's no regret there. But
I know it's hard if what everyone's no opinions of
like that's not the smart thing to do in a
rocky relationship, and you're like you're probably right, but it
was at that time like that's what I wanted, and
so I did it, and I love my baby today
and you know, I'm so happy with him and we're
still like going through stuff and rocking and obviously relationship.
(14:02):
Putting it on reality TV makes things difficult, right, Like
maybe I don't make the smartest decisions, but I don't know.
I went with my gut on what I wanted and
I did it so.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Well on the Since Dakota is the topic here, well
just some quick follow upd coda questions. One are you
all headed to marriage? Two? How are your parents with Dakota? Three?
How is Macy these days? With Dakota? Oh?
Speaker 2 (14:27):
The eyes?
Speaker 1 (14:29):
They don't lie, do they? So let's sus start with
Macy with the eyes. Okay, tell me what it.
Speaker 6 (14:35):
Is joking because we have we have like beef on
the show obviously, and like I mean, I feel like
we're okay. I don't know though, because whatever this is
how it always explained a relationship.
Speaker 5 (14:46):
When we're together in person.
Speaker 6 (14:47):
We vibe so well, like me and Dakota, like our personalities,
like we had to travel here all together, Like we're
joking around with each other. I think for me it
was more like Taylor's coming to me saying like, hey,
he's doing this or doing that, and like this is
a red flags, the red flag you shouldn't talk to you
like this. So for me from a protective friends standpoint,
I'm only seeing the bad for a while, right, and
I wasn't really saying the good. And I think over time,
(15:10):
like I realized, oh, like, you know, I like him,
Like they have their floss and tailors not perfect either,
so I think when I would see stuff like that,
I was like, okay, Like so they both got a
little messy, you know, like we our relationship is on
decent terms.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
But it sounds like, as you said here, you're fully
supportive of them and a future together.
Speaker 6 (15:28):
Yeah, And I told like I've told her and like
I've told him, like I want you guys to work.
I give a baby together, Like I hope that, like
everything works out for sure, Like as long as everything's
good you guys are treating each other, right, then great,
like make it work, you know.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
So, yeah, the goal has always been marriage. I feel
like I don't know how much they show, you know,
in the show, but I feel like I've expressed that's
the goal. I'm just not to the point of I
don't want to right now. Like for me, I feel
like there is trust issues there, you know, have how
we started, and I just need that time to like
hill from that and grow the trust back, you know,
like it needs. I'm not going to go into a
(16:04):
marriage not really fully trusting the person. And so we're
working on that. And then my parents love him, we
love him. They want They're like, if it were up
to them, i'd be married today.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
So yeah, an early episode.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
And your mom it was I laughed. It was actually
quite funny and it was real.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Yeah, they were warm about it. They weren't mean, but still.
Speaker 4 (16:28):
They had Yeah, my mom's pretty harsh.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
She's she's honest, you know, And you've got to appreciate that,
especially in a reality show where maybe you can't believe
or trust much of what you're seeing or hearing. Your
parents will set you straight, and I appreciate that. I
have been fascinated. So I grew up Catholic and I have.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
You know, over my.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Period of time, I went from being a cafeteria Catholic
to kind of jokingly becoming a recovering Catholic. But I
didn't realize Mormonism you could have these varying degrees. I
thought you were all in or all out, and so
we see some of you drinking, We see some of
you obviously sexually being explorative, which wouldn't be something that
I would think would be sanctioned by the church. What
(17:10):
do you think about what this is doing or saying
about modern Mormonism for people who are watching and maybe
only have seen the Book of Mormon or have only
heard because this isn't something This isn't a religion where
you can walk into tabernacle like I don't want to
say secretive, but it's closed. It's not something that's open
for everyone. So people can only guess. What do you
think this show is doing for your faith? And what
(17:32):
have you heard back from maybe bishops or leaders of
the church.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
I feel like it's opening people's eyes to it doesn't
have to be like that, like very one way or
the other, all in or all out, and that is
like my message out there is that's not the case.
Like I feel like we all go through these trials
that you see in the show. Everyone does, Like I mean,
people struggle with addiction and alcohol and affairs and all
these things, and even in the Mormon religion and it happens,
(17:57):
it's just very hush hush, and so our thing is
like just I want to share my story. I want
to come out and people like Mormons, we aren't perfect,
and that's like it doesn't have to be that way.
We all live differently, and you see that in the show.
There's a very devout and then there's one that completely
left the church, that was born and raised, right, So
it's like our message was everyone has a different story
(18:17):
and it doesn't have to be one way, and that's
what you think it is. That's where a lot of
people think it.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Is as you said, right, Yeah, I absolutely thought.
Speaker 4 (18:26):
That, and it's not and we don't not everyone's perfect,
and that was what the message is.
Speaker 5 (18:29):
And no one has reached out.
Speaker 6 (18:31):
I feel like, at least from anyone that I know,
no church leaders have reached out. They posted a statement
before the show came out, and I think it was
more just because everyone was freaking out onlinees like like
they had to post something, you know, but like everyone
was just chudging a book by its cover, like when
you watch the show, like it's not like a documentary
on like Mormons, right, Like it's not like that. And
(18:51):
so I think, yeah, like people were just judging a
book by its cover and no one's reached out to me.
Actually someone reached out because I wasn't at church on Sunday,
Like this doesn't make sure you're doing okay. Like I
thought it was because of the show that I wasn't coming,
But I was just like kind of sex. I was like, no,
that's not the problem. I'm like, I'm good, I'm coming.
I don't care what you say.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Like, yeah, That's what I alluded to at the top
of why this show was different. There are plenty of
the housewives and reality this and that that put people together,
and you know what you're going to expect, you're going
to They're going to put them together. They're going to
take a trip, they're going to put some alcohol, they're
going to go to lunch, and it's going to be
an explosion. The thing about this story this that's different,
and there is some of that minus the alcohol. I
(19:29):
suppose there's some alcohol. There as some alcohol.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Yeah, that causes some of the problems, just the fact
that they're being there are there is alcohol there, But it.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Makes I'm curious about how the Mormon faith plays into
your life. I have a curiosity sitting on the edge
of my seat watching you all, not because I want
to see a fight, but because I'm curious of how
you incorporate your day and day, your relationships, your your marriages,
your kids, how that blends with your Mormon faith. And
(19:58):
so my question, I guess, do you find it good
and bad? You're showing a side of the Mormon faith
that people didn't say, Oh, they're normal just like me. Yeah,
that's a good thing.
Speaker 5 (20:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
But on the other side of that is they're showing
the Mormon faith and go, oh, that's how they are.
So it seems like it's a double sided coin.
Speaker 5 (20:19):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 6 (20:20):
I think for me, I love that we could all
show like where we're at, because I'm like, I want
other people, especially people who are making Mormon or maybe
don't feel like they're enough because they're not following the
rules or the guielms to a tea. I want them
to build the watch and relate and be like, oh,
so like I don't I can swear and be Mormon. Oh,
like I don't have I could do a coffee and
still go to church and be Mormon. Like that's I
think what we wanted out of it. Is like no
(20:40):
one's perfect and people are still doing things, but they're
not like they're not omen like us admitting it and
so like, and I think there's like we just want
to get rid of that guilt and shame feeling for
people who maybe feel like us and like I was.
I say this so many times where people are gonna
say it's like my whole personality. But I'm from California,
and California culture with Mormons is different. Like I grew up,
I feel fairly normal, like none of my friends are
(21:02):
really Mormon, like, so I feel like I have a
different perspective in general. I'm like, this is how Mormons are,
it's like how I am. But in Utah, the culture
is different, for sure, and I think it's a little
more I want to say judgmental, but it's a little
more to the book, like everyone's mostly following the guidelines
to a tee and it's not like that like everywhere else.
I feel like mostly Utah, So I think it's shedding
(21:23):
light on like relatability.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
I've been to Utah. It is very different than the
rest of the country.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
It certainly is.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
I'm curious you said Taylor that in Utah people recognize
you and now you're going to probably have a very
different experience as you venture out. But how have you
been treated? Like do you see the sneers in the
eye rolls? Do people say things to you based on
just the even the TikTok situation?
Speaker 3 (21:57):
What has your life been Like?
Speaker 4 (21:59):
Yeah, I feel like it's been overall in person, everyone
is great, And I think when everything originally came out
on TikTok, I had a like in Target, a girl
was like, just so you know, like I got you,
we have your back, we support you. And it was
like a random strang journal I was like, thank you.
Like a church, a girl came up to me after swinging.
Things just came up. She's like, I'm just glad you're
here today, and that's when she came. It was just
(22:20):
like things like that. But now we were at the
airport and a girl was like, oh, we were all
dressed and the same and it was the cast and
she was like like, what's going on? You know when
we were talking her, were like talking about the show
and she was like, oh yeah, none of that. Like
you could just tell she was a Mormon and like
heard about the show and already was just like none
of that. And then all of us were like just
like kind of shocked by her reaction, and like to me,
(22:43):
she was like, we all lived differently, we all make
mistakes and that's okay. Like was very like firm back
to her, and she's like, you know what, I apologize.
You're right, Like I think just like hearing it, and
she was like she hurt herself, like, oh, I'm sorry,
I apologize, And so that was kind of cool to
witness that conversation in But I haven't noticed it other
than that, but I'm sure we'll get it now, especially
(23:04):
because she hadn't seen the show right, and they're they're
going off just the title and the trailer and they're like,
that is not us.
Speaker 6 (23:12):
And they usually don't say it to your face, they
say it behind your back.
Speaker 5 (23:16):
I wasn't there for that. I'm dang, I'm mad I
missed that. Taylor.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
I have another question for you. This is just my curiosity.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
How do a group of Mormon couples even start a
conversation or even entertain the idea of this soft swinging?
Speaker 3 (23:37):
Like where does that come in? Does someone bring it up?
Is it?
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Like? I'm just curious how something that like that begins
in that group set it.
Speaker 4 (23:45):
I think it was curiosity for everybody. So I've talked
about it before. They didn't do what you normal people
do in their college fun years, right, they got married
and for their first everyone was each other's first, right
like in most of them. Me I won't speak for
myself in that situation, and I also did party my
younger years, so I had experienced that type of life.
(24:06):
For them, I think it was all new. And even
for my ex, his first time drinking was twenty eight
years old, twenty nine, and so I feel like it
was like this thing that we like started to drink
and that was fun and it was cool, and then
it was like and then it just another step was
the boys like girls should kiss, and I did that
in my young year, so I was like, okay, like whatever,
let's kiss, let's be. It was just like dumb stuff,
like high school stuff. And then it was like, let's
play spin the bottle, and it progresses. It's all basically
(24:29):
games you play in high school and college that they
didn't experience with other people, and so it led from yeah,
that and then it was everyone's blindfolding each other, making
out with everyone and then touching everyone, and it was
just like love Island games.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Honestly, oh, yes, we're familiar, but it's like all that
maybe even I don't want to put words, but like
all that repression maybe or you can't or you shouldn't
or don't. So you end up having like teenage years
in your late twenties.
Speaker 4 (24:54):
And it was fun because we had been married for
like six world. Oh I'd been married only six years,
and so it's like you're kind of at that time
of like just like little bored. I would say, like
I hate to admit it, but bored. And so it
was like spicing things up. And the guy saw they're like,
this is spicing up our wives, Like hell yeah, And
so it was never with like ill intention. It was
more just like, it's fun, my spouse is right here.
(25:15):
We're not doing anything wrong, like we were on the
same page. It didn't feel bad in the moment. You
look at it now and it's like it's ruined all
of our lives. Everyone's divorced, the kids are going back
and forth to houses. It's like ruined our lives, you know.
But at the time it wasn't. We didn't feel bad,
and so it was never a conversation. It just like happened.
Speaker 6 (25:31):
It's funny because when I heard about it, I was like,
this is something you do in college. It's like this
is a college exploratory phase, Like why are we doing
Like why were we doing this? As like married adults,
I mean, each to their own. But when I first
heard it, like this sounds like something you do in college,
like when you're like get doing your little why And
when I.
Speaker 4 (25:46):
Hear some of the people involved talk about it, they're like, yeah,
we were just kids. Like we're all thirty almost thirty
year olds old, we're not kids, like what.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
They're kids in terms of experience a lot? Right, yes,
but this was but this was a one off. This
was a one This wasn't like a lifestyle you will,
I use that in air quotes, but this isn't something
that continues. It was the one off experimental.
Speaker 4 (26:06):
Well, I wouldn't even use the word swinger. I mean
I feel like I did, but like going back, I
said soft swinging and that wasn't even my term I
made up.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Okay, I soft swinging is that clearly defined that everybody understands.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
To be a full on swinger. Ever, it was soft swinging,
and someone told me that what we're doing with soft swinging?
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Okay, so I.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Said, And how long did it go on before it
started to unravel?
Speaker 3 (26:34):
Folks?
Speaker 4 (26:36):
A year with a couple and then with the other
couples involved. I feel like it all blew up within
two months.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
I didn't know. Again, I haven't done a deep enough dive,
have you that to hear the relationships and marriages were impacted,
all of them.
Speaker 4 (26:51):
Everyone was divorced.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
By it being revealed or just by it happening.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
I think all of it. Yeah, like it happening and
the fairs involved and issues, Yeah, I would call it
just we opened our relationship up and it went bad.
I wouldn't even call us I mean swingers at this point, Like, yes,
that's what we're known for, But like I would say,
it was just an experienced, like open relationship.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
What do you want to be known for now?
Speaker 2 (27:18):
And as this is, we're all now consuming this season
and hopefully there'll be a second season. What do you
all hope comes from this? And what do you want
from putting this all out there?
Speaker 4 (27:28):
Yeah, it's hard to say.
Speaker 6 (27:30):
I think, like, well, the goal with the show I
think for us is like relatability. We want people to
relate and to be inspired maybe from like we all
have very interesting backstories, and you don't see that all
in the season one, So we're hoping with like future
seasons you can see how we really are where we
came from deep down. And I think that everyone even
more so can relate to us because we all have
interesting stories. So I think that's the goal and the
(27:51):
hope is that we can share more of our lives
and hopefully impact people and you know, further our careers
of course, Like why would you do being a reality
show if you like didn't want to further your career.
Speaker 5 (28:02):
I guess yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
For me, I feel like, yeah, it was a big
It was an opportunity to obviously tell my story rather
than my headline. Yes, that is something I did. That's
not something I want to be known for, Like I
don't want that headline. It was a mistake, a lesson learned,
and I feel like this was my opportunity to come
tell my story and that's not me anymore. Like I
feel like I've grown from that. I don't want ever
(28:25):
that in my life again. And yeah, this was a
chance to just like and also show rock bottom like
I went through another year of shy stuff and that
you can come out of it. And it's like we've
all hit a low spot and I feel like you
can either choose one way to go dig yourself deeper
and come out of it, you know, so just gave me.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
I and everyone, no matter who you think you are
or where you are in life or everyone, gets to
a point where you hit that moment and then you
get the empathy and you get the wisdom, yes, and
you learn how to make things better.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
And that's how we go through it. So we appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
I mean, it's been entertaining, but I do think there
are lessons in there, and this is real stuff that
people don't talk about, and you guys are showing us.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
So we appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
We can't say it enough. Look, we've been through our
own types of hell, but it causes us to see
a show, even as entertaining and as trashy as some
I might try to describe it as we saw you
all as human beings first, and to see you all
sitting in this room, now, that is the first thing
we see. We don't see characters on a show. You
all are just two human beings who made mistakes like
(29:31):
everybody else. And I have my eleven year old at
lunch at middle school right now. I told her you
all had arrived. She said, send me a pick starts.
But I'm saying, I'm saying this being doesn't come here.
She's not that interested. But I'm saying the impact you
all are having, for even that kid, and for us
(29:53):
and a lot of people, the impact you all are
having is enormous. What it ultimately ends up being, who knows,
but it's still we love to see a human story
and a comeback story and real, y, real folks. So
we're saying that from the bottom of our hearts.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
And it was honored to be on like especially you
guys have been through your own stuff and you can
maybe relate in a sense of like we can.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Yeah, we can.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
We know what it's like to be vilified and relate
to the swinging stuff.
Speaker 4 (30:21):
Yeah, oh no, I mean that's what I mean.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Yes, being being the villain in anyone's story is a
really tough place to be, but it makes you better
and it makes you stronger in the end. So congratulations
on the wild success that you are experiencing.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
And we hope for reconciliation, you know, we we.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Hope Whitney comes back and we get more and we
we We're going to finish the season.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
I might be done by tonight. Actually to thank
Speaker 6 (30:52):
You all, thank you, thank you, thecation B, the int
Taylor, Folks, got a question for you on this episode today.
Are you team Taylor? Are you team Whitney? And if
you don't know what I'm talking about right now, you
are out of the loop or under a rock. Kayler, Folks,
Welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Robes. Sitting
next to me, Robes, we have talked to several people
the last couple of days we said we are interviewing
the women from the Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. What
(00:27):
has been the reaction we've gotten from everybody in niversal?
My gosh, I'm obsessed.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
And you know this show has been out not even
for a full week, correct, and it's already it's number
one on Hulu.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Everyone's talking about it.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I was excited to have a reason for research purposes
to have to watch the show, and that's all I've
been doing for us.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
In all seriousness, were you really trying to find a
way to make an excuse for why you needed to
watch it because you felt like I should I shouldn't
be watching that type.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Of smart You know, the answer is absolutely.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
I watched ninety Beyonce Married at First Sight, Love Island,
Love is Blind, full disclosure.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
I love some reality.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
So let's be honest, full disclosure here. I watch plenty
of those with you. This one is different for a
very specific reason that we'll get into. But right now
we need to welcome into the studio folks. They are
sitting right here in front of us, two ladies who
are looking for tickets to the Book of Mormons. If
you have this long broadway they would appreciate. With Taylor Freaky,
(01:33):
Paul Macy Neely, Welcome, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Welcome to guys.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
You guys are entertaining to listen to.
Speaker 5 (01:40):
I love your voices.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Thank you.
Speaker 5 (01:42):
You're the news background.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Oh okay, yes, decades of training.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Yeah, so so okay, with that background, you know we're journalists.
We're going to get right to it. So tell us
season two. Is it confirmed? Is it happening?
Speaker 5 (01:55):
It's not confirmed, but I have a feeling.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
We hope, yeah, but we don't know anything.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Do you know when you'll know? Have they given you
an idea?
Speaker 4 (02:03):
If I think, if it's happening, it'll be here very soon,
I think, But I guess. I guess we're not the
ones who call the shots, so real, we know good.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Hell, well, this thing is getting renewed. Is there anybody
show a hands in the room who thinks this is not?
Of course is getting renewed, but it's a congratulations. Any question?
What has life looked like since? And again it's only
would you say it.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Six days or something? It's like four, Oh yeah, well
what was it?
Speaker 5 (02:28):
Friday? Came out Friday?
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Wow, as we sit here, you're only a few days in.
How has life changed even in the matter of days
since the show hit who it.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Hasn't hit us?
Speaker 5 (02:37):
Yeah, it like hasn't hit us yet.
Speaker 6 (02:39):
I think that what's changed, just like all the comments
in all the buzz, Like if we open social media,
all we see is ourselves, which is it like normal?
So I feel like that's the weirdest part is like
seeing all the buzz and I'm like, whoa, Like this
is bigger than we anticipated or I ever thought it
would be.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
Yeah, I mean I think going places too, I don't
think we kind of knew, like because in our circle
we're kind of like, well no, i'd say, like people
know us in Utah, you know, but we're going to
the airport now and like everyone's stopping here, can we
get a picture? And it's so weird it's like it's different.
Speaker 5 (03:08):
It's I don't know nationwide. Yeah, it's like weird y.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Have you all watched the episodes back I have?
Speaker 1 (03:15):
She has it?
Speaker 4 (03:16):
No, I get it. It came out Friday I spent so
I have part time with my kids, and so I
got them back for those three days before I left town.
So I was like, I'm not going to sit and
watch the show. Obviously, don't want it on my screen
with my kids watching. It's like my backstory. I didn't
want it. So no, I have not gone to it.
I know, people don't blame me, like you definitely have
seen it. I was like, I literally haven't.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Okay, Macie, so what do you think having seen.
Speaker 5 (03:38):
It it is? I mean it's pretty good.
Speaker 6 (03:41):
I think it's hard when you watch yourself in it,
You're like, no, it's like a whole movie. Like it
doesn't seem like a real like production, right because I
just see me and my friends on the like on
the TV screen. But I mean it was juicy for sure,
Like it was crazy to see how much was cut
out compared to how much we filmed.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Too.
Speaker 6 (03:56):
I was like, this almost seems like a highlight reel
of what we filmed because we filmed so much.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Or a low light in some moments.
Speaker 5 (04:03):
Oh yeah, for sure. True.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Yeah, I'm curious. I don't know how much people want
to give away about what ends up happening. And I
actually read ahead because it is juicy. That is probably
a very light word to use, but everyone knows if.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
You've got girl groups. I was talking to TJ about it.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
You know, it gets messy and it gets difficult sometimes
we have all these different personalities. But I know that
there were problems going into the show based on what happened,
And we'll get into the backstory of this. But did
this do further damage being on the show to already
thinly put together friendships that were barely hanging on?
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Did this destroy friendships doing the show?
Speaker 5 (04:51):
Yes and no.
Speaker 6 (04:52):
I should say like some of us got closer and
then some of us didn't.
Speaker 5 (04:56):
And I think there's like a bit of a divide
right now.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
For sure, Why are you giggling? You? You immediately reacted
to what she said.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
Why it's just funny, Like I guess now the girls
have seen it. We were told, yeah, you're gonna have
broken friendships. Oh like really, and then there has been yeah.
Speaker 6 (05:11):
Yeah, it's starting to happen right now behind the scenes,
so it's yeah, there's like drama going on behind the
scenes with everything.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
So it's funny, like it's just the people you don't think.
Sometimes it's just like, oh.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Is it irreparable though irreparable harm that's being done or
just things that are going to take time to.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
Get past for me, things that will take time. Like
I feel like I'm pretty forgive. I haven't seen the show,
so I don't know if I'm forgiving you this show,
but like I feel like I'm pretty forgiving, especially with girlfriends,
and so I feel like if any damage is done,
I I'll be able to forgive. We'll just be straight
up Whitney right now, you know, it's going through the mud.
And so I feel like I was saying this earlier,
(05:50):
like I'll always she helped me in a very dark place,
like when I was at my lowest, and so even
though she might not be a fan of me, like
I'm gonna be here for her during this cause I've
been her exact spot and so I just feel for
her at this point.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Is it true that everyone has unfollowed Whitney.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
I mean I haven't, but I don't know if she's
in following me, but I think all the other girls
haven't followed her. Yeah, And I don't know. It's hard.
Like I know they're like very like upset and they
have all these feelings into they can. But I feel
like I just have been in Whitney's spot of that
villain and and it's like out of hurt too, and
she's reacting and I think it's out of she's just hurting,
and so like for me, I feel for I'm like
(06:26):
I see myself and so I'm not going to add
to that. I'm only going to be here for her.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Have you all reached out? Have you all tried? Is
there any communication with Whitney right now?
Speaker 4 (06:35):
Yeah, I'm here for you no matter what.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
But is there back and forth or was just kind
of one way right now?
Speaker 6 (06:39):
I mean I reached out to her and she han't respond,
but I guess she's responding to.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Taylor, And she responded to you, Taylor.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
She did, and she like kind of just broke her
feelings down and her reasonings. And I haven't responded because
we've been on the go, and so I know to
like take a minute to read all of it and
then respond.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
It's interesting you point out and we have a little
history and knowing what it feels like when people when
they're listening to a story, and obviously there are lots
of different sides, but people want a good guy, and
they want a bad guy or a villain and a saint,
a saint in a sinner. I think one of the
episodes is even called Saints and Sinners. Have you like,
I feel like basically somehow you've never actually been in
(07:17):
the bad guy situation as if yet not.
Speaker 6 (07:20):
Yeah, I mean towards the end, like kind of can
go both ways, and like that end kind of makes
me look a little bit like a villain. At least
when I watched it, I was.
Speaker 5 (07:27):
Like, uh oh, but like that wasn't the intention.
Speaker 6 (07:30):
They did cut a scene where I asked Taylor's permission
to call this person who's like involved in Dakota's past,
but they cut that out, so I was like, Dan,
that actually kind of makes me look a little bit
like a villain. But if they saw it wasn't cut.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
No, I'm just cadding she's a good friend. So it's
like hard when you're like.
Speaker 6 (07:47):
I wouldn't say I'm like a natural villain like I
would just say, like, I'm not man, I'm perfect. I'm
just kidding. No, But I I just like love my
friendships and I hate when people, yeah, and I hate
when people are so hot cold Michel, I can't we
all just like be friends?
Speaker 5 (08:01):
Like how hard is it to get along? Like I
don't understand.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Apparently it's really hard.
Speaker 6 (08:04):
Yeah, And I understand because like you have eight strong,
like minded women, like we all are like opinionated, like granted,
like potsfried By were on a reality show together, because
so there's bound to be conflicts, right, like it's just natural.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
And please know when I asked, we're only three episodes in.
Let you know that. So when I asked, I said, okay,
I know who're interview. Got Taylor, got Mace, and I
came in that like came around the corner. I said, okay,
which one is Macy's Again, she said she's Switzerland. That's
how she rides been able to go back and forth
with two different groups at least. I think we're on
(08:38):
episode four, by the way, but she suggested that that
might have been stressful or difficult for you. When even
I opened this episode talking about Team Whitney R Team
it seems like everybody needs to take a split outside
and you are going back and forth, and what does
that continue with you now? The stress of having to
try to manage kind of keep the whole team together
in a certain way.
Speaker 6 (08:59):
I feel like right now now I'm not I'm not
even thinking about it and when there's too much going on.
But during the show, I feel like it was the
biggest stressor for me. Was like I feel like I
was always in between two groups and it was hard
because now I feel like I'm seeing online like on
social people are being like, oh, she's playing both sides,
like she's the smart one, she's the staring the problem,
Like actually no, I was stuck between two sides and
(09:20):
it was so stressful because like then when bore are
they saying about me? And I'm like, I'm not saying anything,
and the was Whatney saying. I'm like, I don't want
to say anything, like I just want to be friends
with everybody, and like, apparently that's an issue and I don't, like, yeah,
that's like a problem.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
People want people to take sides. I think a lot
of times true, Taylor.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
I want to ask you, because how this all began. Obviously,
I learned a lot about what is it soft swinging is.
We don't need to go into all of that because
I think that's been heavily discussed. However, I did have
a question because we started watching the episode and it
starts out right after all of that, and presumably when
you all got the show the TikTok that went viral,
(10:06):
you had been accused of cheating or being a man
or a husband stealer, and you said, hold up, everyone
was involved or a lot of folks were involved in
this soft swinging, so it was agreed upon consensual mutual
so I'm not the bad guy here. But then, of
course many of your friends and the friend group felt
like they then had to defend themselves say hey, it
(10:27):
wasn't me. There are a lot of questions swirling around.
Is anyone who was on the show now a part
of that group without naming names? Or are these all
people we haven't heard or seen before.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
The second one? So yeah, no one was involved on
the cast shown.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Now, yeah, do you feel like you made that clear?
Speaker 2 (10:46):
And that maybe that's why some of the girls were
upset that they didn't feel like their names were cleared
by you.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
Now, I feel like it's very cleared. I don't know
how much they show on the show, but I think
I've cleared that up now and especially in the interviews
as well, like we've all said, know, like none of
the cast is like involved other than myself. Yeah, So
I feel like that's clear, But I don't know. Is
there still questions do you think out there?
Speaker 6 (11:07):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Absolutely, because anything anybody told me about this show about
Mormon wives, Oh they're swinging, did you not know?
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Thinking who's denying it? They just don't want to admit it.
So I think.
Speaker 4 (11:23):
Here's it's hard is because we are in like the
TikTok world and that's our jobs and we do that
and there's mom talk, right, So you have people that
were involved in there and then they're not on the show.
So it is very like people cannot connect. But I
think if you have been there and you did the research,
it's not hard to pinpoint who.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Is and who is I haven't done.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
We have more homework so that some further interviews. But
we started out.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
You started out thinking you were pregnant, you had I
believe a miscarriage, and then almost a full year goes
by before you start filming again. Yeah, obviously you were arrested.
Anybody can do that Google search as well. What happened
to you during that year and what made you decide
to start filming again?
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Give us fill in that gap for us.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
Yeah, I feel like it was like a transformative time.
I would say, I feel like when I started to film,
you can see it clear as day. I'm I know
you haven't like finished, but I'm a different person. It's
episode one, And then I think, I you know, I'm
a completely different person going forward in the show, you know,
And so I feel like in the beginning would have
(12:35):
been chaos if we kept filming. I can't imagine the
show because I was like, you can just tell them
like I don't care, I don't give an f about
anything or anyone. I was just in a hurting phase
and I just like was so angry, I think, and
then I've yeah, I was dating Dakota, I went through
the miscar or the ectopic pregnancy. So I feel like
I got softer within time, and like more empathetic towards
(12:56):
others and like how they're feeling, because in the beginning,
I'm like, I don't care why anyone's feelings, Like I
hate all of you, like anyone that did me wrong,
you know. And so I feel like during that process,
I could empathize with people and like I just learned
a lot and I went through a lot, like of
mental health stuff. Like I feel like I was very
low in that time too, and I went to EMDR therapy.
Lots of issues in my relationship, like we were really
(13:20):
trying to make it working after an ectopic pregnancy of
loss and like you're barely hanging on, like Rocky we
just met, so like I'm so like it was shocking
that we're still together, you know, after all of that,
but working on that and then yeah, I got pregnant
again and that was I think that was no accident,
Like I wanted that. I think from the loss, I
was just like so hurting and I wanted I wanted
a child. I wanted that child, you know that I
(13:41):
had lost, so like I wanted that and he did too,
And so I feel like there's no regret there. But
I know it's hard if what everyone's no opinions of
like that's not the smart thing to do in a
rocky relationship, and you're like you're probably right, but it
was at that time like that's what I wanted, and
so I did it, and I love my baby today
and you know, I'm so happy with him and we're
still like going through stuff and rocking and obviously relationship.
(14:02):
Putting it on reality TV makes things difficult, right, Like
maybe I don't make the smartest decisions, but I don't know.
I went with my gut on what I wanted and
I did it so.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Well on the Since Dakota is the topic here, well
just some quick follow upd coda questions. One are you
all headed to marriage? Two? How are your parents with Dakota? Three?
How is Macy these days? With Dakota? Oh?
Speaker 2 (14:27):
The eyes?
Speaker 1 (14:29):
They don't lie, do they? So let's sus start with
Macy with the eyes. Okay, tell me what it.
Speaker 6 (14:35):
Is joking because we have we have like beef on
the show obviously, and like I mean, I feel like
we're okay. I don't know though, because whatever this is
how it always explained a relationship.
Speaker 5 (14:46):
When we're together in person.
Speaker 6 (14:47):
We vibe so well, like me and Dakota, like our personalities,
like we had to travel here all together, Like we're
joking around with each other. I think for me it
was more like Taylor's coming to me saying like, hey,
he's doing this or doing that, and like this is
a red flags, the red flag you shouldn't talk to you
like this. So for me from a protective friends standpoint,
I'm only seeing the bad for a while, right, and
I wasn't really saying the good. And I think over time,
(15:10):
like I realized, oh, like, you know, I like him,
Like they have their floss and tailors not perfect either,
so I think when I would see stuff like that,
I was like, okay, Like so they both got a
little messy, you know, like we our relationship is on
decent terms.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
But it sounds like, as you said here, you're fully
supportive of them and a future together.
Speaker 6 (15:28):
Yeah, And I told like I've told her and like
I've told him, like I want you guys to work.
I give a baby together, Like I hope that, like
everything works out for sure, Like as long as everything's
good you guys are treating each other, right, then great,
like make it work, you know.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
So, yeah, the goal has always been marriage. I feel
like I don't know how much they show, you know,
in the show, but I feel like I've expressed that's
the goal. I'm just not to the point of I
don't want to right now. Like for me, I feel
like there is trust issues there, you know, have how
we started, and I just need that time to like
hill from that and grow the trust back, you know,
like it needs. I'm not going to go into a
(16:04):
marriage not really fully trusting the person. And so we're
working on that. And then my parents love him, we
love him. They want They're like, if it were up
to them, i'd be married today.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
So yeah, an early episode.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
And your mom it was I laughed. It was actually
quite funny and it was real.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Yeah, they were warm about it. They weren't mean, but still.
Speaker 4 (16:28):
They had Yeah, my mom's pretty harsh.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
She's she's honest, you know, And you've got to appreciate that,
especially in a reality show where maybe you can't believe
or trust much of what you're seeing or hearing. Your
parents will set you straight, and I appreciate that. I
have been fascinated. So I grew up Catholic and I have.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
You know, over my.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Period of time, I went from being a cafeteria Catholic
to kind of jokingly becoming a recovering Catholic. But I
didn't realize Mormonism you could have these varying degrees. I
thought you were all in or all out, and so
we see some of you drinking, We see some of
you obviously sexually being explorative, which wouldn't be something that
I would think would be sanctioned by the church. What
(17:10):
do you think about what this is doing or saying
about modern Mormonism for people who are watching and maybe
only have seen the Book of Mormon or have only
heard because this isn't something This isn't a religion where
you can walk into tabernacle like I don't want to
say secretive, but it's closed. It's not something that's open
for everyone. So people can only guess. What do you
think this show is doing for your faith? And what
(17:32):
have you heard back from maybe bishops or leaders of
the church.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
I feel like it's opening people's eyes to it doesn't
have to be like that, like very one way or
the other, all in or all out, and that is
like my message out there is that's not the case.
Like I feel like we all go through these trials
that you see in the show. Everyone does, Like I mean,
people struggle with addiction and alcohol and affairs and all
these things, and even in the Mormon religion and it happens,
(17:57):
it's just very hush hush, and so our thing is
like just I want to share my story. I want
to come out and people like Mormons, we aren't perfect,
and that's like it doesn't have to be that way.
We all live differently, and you see that in the show.
There's a very devout and then there's one that completely
left the church, that was born and raised, right, So
it's like our message was everyone has a different story
(18:17):
and it doesn't have to be one way, and that's
what you think it is. That's where a lot of
people think it.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Is as you said, right, Yeah, I absolutely thought.
Speaker 4 (18:26):
That, and it's not and we don't not everyone's perfect,
and that was what the message is.
Speaker 5 (18:29):
And no one has reached out.
Speaker 6 (18:31):
I feel like, at least from anyone that I know,
no church leaders have reached out. They posted a statement
before the show came out, and I think it was
more just because everyone was freaking out onlinees like like
they had to post something, you know, but like everyone
was just chudging a book by its cover, like when
you watch the show, like it's not like a documentary
on like Mormons, right, Like it's not like that. And
(18:51):
so I think, yeah, like people were just judging a
book by its cover and no one's reached out to me.
Actually someone reached out because I wasn't at church on Sunday,
Like this doesn't make sure you're doing okay. Like I
thought it was because of the show that I wasn't coming,
But I was just like kind of sex. I was like, no,
that's not the problem. I'm like, I'm good, I'm coming.
I don't care what you say.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Like, yeah, That's what I alluded to at the top
of why this show was different. There are plenty of
the housewives and reality this and that that put people together,
and you know what you're going to expect, you're going
to They're going to put them together. They're going to
take a trip, they're going to put some alcohol, they're
going to go to lunch, and it's going to be
an explosion. The thing about this story this that's different,
and there is some of that minus the alcohol. I
(19:29):
suppose there's some alcohol. There as some alcohol.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Yeah, that causes some of the problems, just the fact
that they're being there are there is alcohol there, But it.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Makes I'm curious about how the Mormon faith plays into
your life. I have a curiosity sitting on the edge
of my seat watching you all, not because I want
to see a fight, but because I'm curious of how
you incorporate your day and day, your relationships, your your marriages,
your kids, how that blends with your Mormon faith. And
(19:58):
so my question, I guess, do you find it good
and bad? You're showing a side of the Mormon faith
that people didn't say, Oh, they're normal just like me. Yeah,
that's a good thing.
Speaker 5 (20:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
But on the other side of that is they're showing
the Mormon faith and go, oh, that's how they are.
So it seems like it's a double sided coin.
Speaker 5 (20:19):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 6 (20:20):
I think for me, I love that we could all
show like where we're at, because I'm like, I want
other people, especially people who are making Mormon or maybe
don't feel like they're enough because they're not following the
rules or the guielms to a tea. I want them
to build the watch and relate and be like, oh,
so like I don't I can swear and be Mormon. Oh,
like I don't have I could do a coffee and
still go to church and be Mormon. Like that's I
think what we wanted out of it. Is like no
(20:40):
one's perfect and people are still doing things, but they're
not like they're not omen like us admitting it and
so like, and I think there's like we just want
to get rid of that guilt and shame feeling for
people who maybe feel like us and like I was.
I say this so many times where people are gonna
say it's like my whole personality. But I'm from California,
and California culture with Mormons is different. Like I grew up,
I feel fairly normal, like none of my friends are
(21:02):
really Mormon, like, so I feel like I have a
different perspective in general. I'm like, this is how Mormons are,
it's like how I am. But in Utah, the culture
is different, for sure, and I think it's a little
more I want to say judgmental, but it's a little
more to the book, like everyone's mostly following the guidelines
to a tee and it's not like that like everywhere else.
I feel like mostly Utah, So I think it's shedding
(21:23):
light on like relatability.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
I've been to Utah. It is very different than the
rest of the country.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
It certainly is.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
I'm curious you said Taylor that in Utah people recognize
you and now you're going to probably have a very
different experience as you venture out. But how have you
been treated? Like do you see the sneers in the
eye rolls? Do people say things to you based on
just the even the TikTok situation?
Speaker 3 (21:57):
What has your life been Like?
Speaker 4 (21:59):
Yeah, I feel like it's been overall in person, everyone
is great, And I think when everything originally came out
on TikTok, I had a like in Target, a girl
was like, just so you know, like I got you,
we have your back, we support you. And it was
like a random strang journal I was like, thank you.
Like a church, a girl came up to me after swinging.
Things just came up. She's like, I'm just glad you're
here today, and that's when she came. It was just
(22:20):
like things like that. But now we were at the
airport and a girl was like, oh, we were all
dressed and the same and it was the cast and
she was like like, what's going on? You know when
we were talking her, were like talking about the show
and she was like, oh yeah, none of that. Like
you could just tell she was a Mormon and like
heard about the show and already was just like none
of that. And then all of us were like just
like kind of shocked by her reaction, and like to me,
(22:43):
she was like, we all lived differently, we all make
mistakes and that's okay. Like was very like firm back
to her, and she's like, you know what, I apologize.
You're right, Like I think just like hearing it, and
she was like she hurt herself, like, oh, I'm sorry,
I apologize, And so that was kind of cool to
witness that conversation in But I haven't noticed it other
than that, but I'm sure we'll get it now, especially
(23:04):
because she hadn't seen the show right, and they're they're
going off just the title and the trailer and they're like,
that is not us.
Speaker 6 (23:12):
And they usually don't say it to your face, they
say it behind your back.
Speaker 5 (23:16):
I wasn't there for that. I'm dang, I'm mad I
missed that. Taylor.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
I have another question for you. This is just my curiosity.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
How do a group of Mormon couples even start a
conversation or even entertain the idea of this soft swinging?
Speaker 3 (23:37):
Like where does that come in? Does someone bring it up?
Is it?
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Like? I'm just curious how something that like that begins
in that group set it.
Speaker 4 (23:45):
I think it was curiosity for everybody. So I've talked
about it before. They didn't do what you normal people
do in their college fun years, right, they got married
and for their first everyone was each other's first, right
like in most of them. Me I won't speak for
myself in that situation, and I also did party my
younger years, so I had experienced that type of life.
(24:06):
For them, I think it was all new. And even
for my ex, his first time drinking was twenty eight
years old, twenty nine, and so I feel like it
was like this thing that we like started to drink
and that was fun and it was cool, and then
it was like and then it just another step was
the boys like girls should kiss, and I did that
in my young year, so I was like, okay, like whatever,
let's kiss, let's be. It was just like dumb stuff,
like high school stuff. And then it was like, let's
play spin the bottle, and it progresses. It's all basically
(24:29):
games you play in high school and college that they
didn't experience with other people, and so it led from yeah,
that and then it was everyone's blindfolding each other, making
out with everyone and then touching everyone, and it was
just like love Island games.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Honestly, oh, yes, we're familiar, but it's like all that
maybe even I don't want to put words, but like
all that repression maybe or you can't or you shouldn't
or don't. So you end up having like teenage years
in your late twenties.
Speaker 4 (24:54):
And it was fun because we had been married for
like six world. Oh I'd been married only six years,
and so it's like you're kind of at that time
of like just like little bored. I would say, like
I hate to admit it, but bored. And so it
was like spicing things up. And the guy saw they're like,
this is spicing up our wives, Like hell yeah, And
so it was never with like ill intention. It was
more just like, it's fun, my spouse is right here.
(25:15):
We're not doing anything wrong, like we were on the
same page. It didn't feel bad in the moment. You
look at it now and it's like it's ruined all
of our lives. Everyone's divorced, the kids are going back
and forth to houses. It's like ruined our lives, you know.
But at the time it wasn't. We didn't feel bad,
and so it was never a conversation. It just like happened.
Speaker 6 (25:31):
It's funny because when I heard about it, I was like,
this is something you do in college. It's like this
is a college exploratory phase, Like why are we doing
Like why were we doing this? As like married adults,
I mean, each to their own. But when I first
heard it, like this sounds like something you do in college,
like when you're like get doing your little why And
when I.
Speaker 4 (25:46):
Hear some of the people involved talk about it, they're like, yeah,
we were just kids. Like we're all thirty almost thirty
year olds old, we're not kids, like what.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
They're kids in terms of experience a lot? Right, yes,
but this was but this was a one off. This
was a one This wasn't like a lifestyle you will,
I use that in air quotes, but this isn't something
that continues. It was the one off experimental.
Speaker 4 (26:06):
Well, I wouldn't even use the word swinger. I mean
I feel like I did, but like going back, I
said soft swinging and that wasn't even my term I
made up.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Okay, I soft swinging is that clearly defined that everybody understands.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
To be a full on swinger. Ever, it was soft swinging,
and someone told me that what we're doing with soft swinging?
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Okay, so I.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Said, And how long did it go on before it
started to unravel?
Speaker 3 (26:34):
Folks?
Speaker 4 (26:36):
A year with a couple and then with the other
couples involved. I feel like it all blew up within
two months.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
I didn't know. Again, I haven't done a deep enough dive,
have you that to hear the relationships and marriages were impacted,
all of them.
Speaker 4 (26:51):
Everyone was divorced.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
By it being revealed or just by it happening.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
I think all of it. Yeah, like it happening and
the fairs involved and issues, Yeah, I would call it
just we opened our relationship up and it went bad.
I wouldn't even call us I mean swingers at this point, Like, yes,
that's what we're known for, But like I would say,
it was just an experienced, like open relationship.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
What do you want to be known for now?
Speaker 2 (27:18):
And as this is, we're all now consuming this season
and hopefully there'll be a second season. What do you
all hope comes from this? And what do you want
from putting this all out there?
Speaker 4 (27:28):
Yeah, it's hard to say.
Speaker 6 (27:30):
I think, like, well, the goal with the show I
think for us is like relatability. We want people to
relate and to be inspired maybe from like we all
have very interesting backstories, and you don't see that all
in the season one, So we're hoping with like future
seasons you can see how we really are where we
came from deep down. And I think that everyone even
more so can relate to us because we all have
interesting stories. So I think that's the goal and the
(27:51):
hope is that we can share more of our lives
and hopefully impact people and you know, further our careers
of course, Like why would you do being a reality
show if you like didn't want to further your career.
Speaker 5 (28:02):
I guess yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
For me, I feel like, yeah, it was a big
It was an opportunity to obviously tell my story rather
than my headline. Yes, that is something I did. That's
not something I want to be known for, Like I
don't want that headline. It was a mistake, a lesson learned,
and I feel like this was my opportunity to come
tell my story and that's not me anymore. Like I
feel like I've grown from that. I don't want ever
(28:25):
that in my life again. And yeah, this was a
chance to just like and also show rock bottom like
I went through another year of shy stuff and that
you can come out of it. And it's like we've
all hit a low spot and I feel like you
can either choose one way to go dig yourself deeper
and come out of it, you know, so just gave me.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
I and everyone, no matter who you think you are
or where you are in life or everyone, gets to
a point where you hit that moment and then you
get the empathy and you get the wisdom, yes, and
you learn how to make things better.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
And that's how we go through it. So we appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
I mean, it's been entertaining, but I do think there
are lessons in there, and this is real stuff that
people don't talk about, and you guys are showing us.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
So we appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
We can't say it enough. Look, we've been through our
own types of hell, but it causes us to see
a show, even as entertaining and as trashy as some
I might try to describe it as we saw you
all as human beings first, and to see you all
sitting in this room, now, that is the first thing
we see. We don't see characters on a show. You
all are just two human beings who made mistakes like
(29:31):
everybody else. And I have my eleven year old at
lunch at middle school right now. I told her you
all had arrived. She said, send me a pick starts.
But I'm saying, I'm saying this being doesn't come here.
She's not that interested. But I'm saying the impact you
all are having, for even that kid, and for us
(29:53):
and a lot of people, the impact you all are
having is enormous. What it ultimately ends up being, who knows,
but it's still we love to see a human story
and a comeback story and real, y, real folks. So
we're saying that from the bottom of our hearts.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
And it was honored to be on like especially you
guys have been through your own stuff and you can
maybe relate in a sense of like we can.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Yeah, we can.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
We know what it's like to be vilified and relate
to the swinging stuff.
Speaker 4 (30:21):
Yeah, oh no, I mean that's what I mean.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Yes, being being the villain in anyone's story is a
really tough place to be, but it makes you better
and it makes you stronger in the end. So congratulations
on the wild success that you are experiencing.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
And we hope for reconciliation, you know, we we.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Hope Whitney comes back and we get more and we
we We're going to finish the season.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
I might be done by tonight. Actually to thank
Speaker 6 (30:52):
You all, thank you, thank you, thecation B, the int
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