May 27, 2024 • 42 mins
Rachel and author Stephanie Quayle bond over shared experiences. Stephanie's book has an all too familiar message that resonates with Rachel. "Why Do We Stay? How My Toxic Relationship Can Help You Find Freedom"
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
This is Rachel Go's Rogue. Welcome back to another episode
of Rachel Goes Rogue. This is your host, Rachel Savannah Lovis,
and today we have Stephanie Quail. She's a country star
whose accomplishments span from performing at the Opry to performing
(00:26):
for US presidents. Her latest accomplishment writing her newest book,
Why Do We Stay, her true story of surviving a
toxic relationship and breaking down why we stay with them.
In her book, Stephanie uses her voice and past experiences
to break down how to spot toxic relationships, how to
(00:47):
navigate them, and how to heal in the aftermath. Stephanie's
book serves not only as a resource, but as a
reminder that you are not alone. Please welcome Stephanie Quayle. Hi, Stephanie,
how are you.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
I'm great, It's so great to meet you.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
I'm so happy to have you on Rachel gos Rogue.
I feel like we have a lot in common. After
reading your book, I'm like I literally was on the
edge of my seat and I could relate to so
many things that you were talking about. And one of
the things that I just appreciated so much with how
your book was written was the therapist psychologist inserts that
(01:30):
you had on there to define certain terms and to
explain certain things, and then also give pointers on like
advice and questions to ask yourself. Oh, it was so
good and it was such an easy read. So I
just wanted to congratulate you.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Thank you for taking the time to read it, because
it is a it packs a punch, and I appreciate that.
You know, I didn't have this book in my early twenties.
So that's the hope, right that a lot of young
women will get their hands on it and get the
information because we don't know a lot of times what
we're walking into until we're in it and then once
(02:07):
we're out of it, or like, oh, yeah, I wish
I would have known that.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Yeah, yep. So obviously you have an impressive music career.
Did you ever see yourself writing a book?
Speaker 2 (02:19):
You know? After the plane crash, I there was just
so much information that was new to me, and my
trust was shot, right, Like I trusted maybe like my
parents and a very few people that I remember talking
to my stepmom and we were just like, one day,
you'll have to write a book because this is just
stranger than fiction. There's no way you could have seen
(02:42):
this coming, right, And so I thought one day, Rachel
I would write a book, but I didn't know it
would come in this form or at this time. And
really the album on the Edge was the catalyst for Okay,
this story can help people. I think a lot of times,
you know, especially when you're in this crazy business that
we're in, it's like, how much do you tell? Is
(03:04):
it actually doing anything? Or is it just going to
cause more adventures and maybe unnecessary and unwanted adventures. So,
you know, with the album, it really showed me, Okay,
there is a need to have these conversations. There's so
much shame with making the wrong decisions or staying in
the wrong relationships or whatever that is that I think
(03:25):
it's really been the beginning of opening up those conversations,
at least what I've experienced. And then the book is
you know, it's so much more than a memoir. And
I appreciate you saying that because it gives the information
we don't have the terms. We don't sometimes know what
we're feeling and going through. At least I have no
idea that everything that was happening to me I had
(03:46):
really nothing to do with yeah, you know, and I
think a lot of times. You know, look, love is potent,
and you know, I just wanted him to be all
the things that I thought he could be, and you know,
and that happened with toxic number two as well. And
you know, potentializing people is something that I that I
(04:08):
fell prey to, and you know, being able to see
people for actually who they are and believing them when
they show us who they are. And hopefully this will
be a guide for many, you know, because it's different
with a song. I have three minutes and you can interpret.
It's all there on the page. There's not really a
lot of gray.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
So your lover boyfriend, Paulo, he was very charismatic, charming,
and you fell in love pretty quickly, and he ended
up being a narcissist and he was cheating on you,
and one day you got the news that he was
in a project plane crash and had passed away.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
So crazy, I was, you know, building this life with him,
living with him, raising his daughter with him. And we
were at home. I was making dinner. I had a
show that night, so it was just like any other night.
She was working on her homework and I got the
call that there had been an accident, so I put
her in the car. We drove faster than I've ever
driven down the pch very great, grateful that I didn't
(05:13):
get pulled, and we got to the Santa Monica Airport
and at that time we didn't know that he had
he was dead. We just knew that there had been
an accident, and so we ran out to the runway
and they wouldn't let us go any further getting closer
to the plane crash and he was piloting the plane.
That was a Wednesday, Rachel and on Sunday at the
(05:33):
memorial is when I learned I wasn't the only woman.
And then that was confirmed when one of my friends
came to my house and said, you've got to move on,
and I'm like, wait a second, I'm still dealing with
dental records, Like.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
It's too much to process.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
How can you move on?
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Like wow?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
And I know our friends say things, you know, in
the heat of the moment, they're just angry, so it's like, no,
just get over.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
It was she suspecting that this relationship was toxic to
be with.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
I think that she so wanted it to work, and
she so wanted because we were this little family, right,
and everyone, I mean I think everyone. I can't I
can't speak for everyone. It came across like how could
I be with a bad guy? So I think I
was validating for a lot of people when it came
(06:21):
to him, And because I'm raising his kid and we
are living this life together, so we thought right, And
so I think she was really legitimately angry. I think
there were, of course moments. You know, you look back
and you're like when you cock your head and like
you're like that doesn't add up, Or you ask certain
questions and they're met with your insecure you're crazy, you
(06:42):
don't know what you're talking about?
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Gaslighting? Oh cool?
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Where do they go to school for this? You know
what I mean? Like, where did they get the handbook
on how to be a narcissist? Because once you start
reading the terms too, you're like, it's so obvious, But
when you're in it, it's so not obvious.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Yeah, And then when you're out of it and you
look back on it, you're like, how did I miss this?
It was so clear? But I think you're just so
wrapped up in I think for you too, with the daughter,
his daughter, that you were taken care of, and you
felt like you had this role and I could just
(07:21):
tell you're a very empathetic person and feel valued adding
value to somebody else's life. And I think all of
those things are so layered, and then you create the
story that you want to believe is true. But this
person has a secret life.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Like he mustn't be so tired.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
How did he have so many women? Because the thing
is all of these women ended up showing up to
his funeral, right, you were like, who are all of
these people? Yes?
Speaker 2 (07:50):
And there were all these moments where I was where
I just I mean, Eden and I had planned on
speaking at the memorial, right, like this is how our family.
We were going to share our family moments and thank
everyone for being there, and we both were just in
a sea of strangers. And I couldn't put my finger
(08:11):
on it. She couldn't put her finger on it, and
so we just kind of said, I don't I don't
think that this is the time. Let's wait to the
private funeral, the family funeral, and if we want to
share stuff, we can. And I had a few moments
where I was like, what would those women just say?
As I'm walking by mourning the death of the love
of my life, you know. And I had a you know,
(08:32):
a friend who watched a woman throw her glass of
wine at the you know, the projection screen that was
showing like our family videos and family photos, and she
ran out of there. No one caught her. Who was
that lady, I mean, Rachel, I don't even know to
the level of how many, I don't even know. I
don't even know.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Were there signs of infidelity along the way? Looking back?
Did you miss those things or did you ignore them?
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Gosh, that's a really great question, I think now, because
I know so much, I don't even when I would
cock my head or be like, why are you talking
to that woman? I think I never could conceive the
idea that he would go all the way. I sound
like a teenager all the way, meaning like actually have
(09:23):
a relationship with someone else, or be intimate with someone else.
I think that, like, because he was so charismatic, and
you know, men just wanted to hang out with him.
They were just so drawn to him. Women just kind
of you know, they were too, but they obviously got
a little closer. And I don't think I ever thought
(09:45):
he was cheating on me. I think I was like,
why are you acting like this? And it got met
with why are you so crazy? Why are you so insecure?
Now looking back at the you know, late nights at
work or what was when it was a Christmas it
was our last Christmas together actually where he said he
had to work and he was actually with one of
(10:05):
the other women, and I just could never have I
don't know. I guess I don't think I did, because
I was so sure that I was his person. I'm
raising his kid with him. I even said to him
at one point, I'm like, hey, if I'm not your person,
just let me go, just let me go. And I
think that's like intoxicating to a narcissist. I think that
(10:30):
like moth to a flame when you try to leave.
So no, I don't think I could fathom it now,
it's hard to not see it all.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Something in your book, too, that I could also relate with,
is after this relationship ended and you were grieving and
looking back and like realizing all of these things about
this person that you thought you knew so well, you
ended up getting into another relationship before healing, and it
(11:00):
seemed like the patterns kept repeating until you learned the lesson.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Yes. Yeah, the message in what you just said is
so potent and so powerful. Do the work and the
healing before you go into another relationship. I didn't, you know.
And I was so vulnerable and so fragile that I was.
I was an easy target. But I thought I was good,
you know, I think you know. I'm like, no, I'm fine,
(11:25):
I'm just going to push through. I'm going to get
over it. I'm going to move on. And he got me.
I remember when he said to me toxic number two,
which is the Prince in the book. He said, I'm
going to show you that you can trust men again.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
I had.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
I mean trust, I think is if you don't have trust,
you don't have anything right. And I was so I think,
looking for someone to fix what was very broken. All
the while it was me who was going to fix me.
But it just it just met me in the moment
(12:02):
I was in. It was the one phrase that again
like if you were to call like one eight hundred
how to be a narcissist, like it would have been
to use this phrase, and he nailed it. And yeah,
I mean I was guarded with him, but I was
with him right, And that one led me downe a
(12:22):
very dangerous path because I hadn't done the work, I
hadn't done the healing. So then it was just really
compounded when I learned that he had also been cheating
on me.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
And this is like when you're about like twenty eight,
twenty eight years old.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Twenty so he died when I was twenty nine, so
twenty nine thirty. Yeah, okay. It started my adventures in
toxicity early twenties, which I think were just so susceptible too.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Yeah, what was your first toxic relationship? Looking back now,
was there something that you can pinpoint as like your
very first toxic dynamic in a relationship?
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Gosh, I'm trying to think, like my little boyfriends before
Paulo were just like children. I mean I lovingly say that.
I mean they were just boys. They weren't ready for relationships, right,
so they weren't toxic. They just weren't. I mean, get
off the couch, buddy, you gotta get a job, like
(13:19):
I can't work this many jobs and you're just chilling
on the couch, like how are we here? So I
don't know if that when I look at that, I
don't look at it as like toxic. I just look
at it as very unequally yoked.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Yeah, so you were like kind of inexperienced before meeting Paulo.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
He was older and he just was captivating and I
was all in. And you know, as you read in
the book, when we first met, I was in a
relationship with this young guy and we were just living
our lives. So when I met Paula, it was just
this is a guy with a kid, and we became friends.
And that's what is also referenced in the book as
(13:59):
a way of grooming, where you familiarize someone and make
it feel like family. You know, he referred to me
as his little sister when he would introduce me to people,
and then that's weird. That's a sneaky, sneaky trick, yeah,
because it makes you feel.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Safe and it also gives him availability to other women around.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Him totally, and to be honest, which I don't know
for a fact, I'm sure I was the other woman
to some other woman, right, So who knows who was
there when I thought I was starting this relationship with him, Right,
there's someone out there that might look at me like
I was the other woman, And I get it. It's
(14:44):
a crazy thing when that happens.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
When did your grief turned to anger? Because for me,
I did a fantasy buster list where I wrote down,
like all of the red flags, all of the situations
that I was put in, the undeniable things that he
said to me, like that I remember clear as day.
And then once I had a full list, it was like, Okay,
now I'm just angry. Yeah, did you reach that point
(15:21):
in your stages of grief?
Speaker 2 (15:24):
You know, because you know, the crash was Wednesday, and
I went into mode.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
I had to call his mom, I had to call
his his daughter's mother, and just start doing while grieving, right,
So I think I grieved ish between Wednesday and Sunday,
which was five days when I learned that I had
been lied to for the entire time, I was beyond angry.
(15:50):
So I went into anger. And I could do anger
really well. I was, you know, really good at that
I could.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Handle this anger. Look like for you just.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Like like, what was a bunch of bullshit? You know,
it's pretty mild, But internally I was, you know, burning
up inside, burning and I just looked at everyone like
a liar, which is very unhealthy. And then I didn't
get to grief counseling until gosh was it like two
and a half years later, And then you know, when
(16:21):
I found out the toxic number two, the prince was
cheating on me. I didn't take it out on him.
I took it out on me. And I remember calling
my stepmom on my drive home just saying, I just
want the pain to stop. I just it's not that
I wanted to take my life. I just wanted the
(16:43):
pain to stop. And then that led to drinking myself
to a place that was very dangerous. And that was
that was a very hard next day to look myself
in the mirror and be like, no, no, no, no,
this is not the option. Is not the option to
do the work. It's going to be hard, but your
(17:03):
life is worth living. And that's that was what That
was one of the hardest parts of the book to write.
The other one was that New Year's Eve writing that
broke me down.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
My jaw was on the floor.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
A tough one.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Uh. My heart goes out to you. Yeah, just chills.
I commend you for your vulnerability and I'm sure that
was not an easy thing to write about.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
No, but just what we will you know, I'm not
saying we as we but collectively, like I in that
moment was willing to subject myself to so much to
please someone else, you know. And I go back to
the fact that I was already good enough. I didn't
(17:52):
need to be more. And I had such a strange relationship,
especially with Paulo, where he anytime I questioned him, it
was your insecure, you're crazy and he only called me
by my last name, which then makes you wonder did
he not want to mess up another woman's name when
talking to me, and then just thinking about the second one,
(18:15):
like I kept putting it on me versus being like, no,
you're the problem. You're the problem, and I'm just gonna
check out, like I'm just gonna, you know, let y'all
go do this with somebody else.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
So the book is called why do We Stay? Why
do We Stay?
Speaker 2 (18:35):
I think I stayed because I thought that if I
just kept getting better that they would become all I
thought they could be. I think we stay because we
think it will get better, you know. I think I
stayed because when it was great, it was great. And
that's why I even define the fact that, like I
(18:56):
didn't leave my first toxic relationship. The only way I
left was he died and I don't know what would
have happened.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
That's nuts. It's like kind of crazy because there's circumstances
outside of your own power that took him away from you.
And then all of this was revealed, and so is
it's just shocking. But then it's like, is this a
blessing and disguise in a way?
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Right?
Speaker 1 (19:24):
I circled something. So this is after you lost Paulo,
and I think it was also after the relationship with
Prince had ended as well, and you said I was
more than happy to lose myself in my work. So
this is you trying to move on. This is you
like getting back into your life and trying to rediscover
(19:47):
who you are because you've lost your identity and these men,
in fact, I felt like the whole world was aligning
in my favor. Finally there was my chance, maybe there
was a reason I'd have to suffer so much, finally
going to be able to make ends meet financially through
my music. Things seem to be coming together in the
most extraordinary way, as if they had God written all
(20:10):
over them. It felt like the perfect storm of giving back,
living my purpose and building my business. Don donc yeah,
I just Oh, there's so much to just surrendering and
knowing that there is a net always that will catch you,
and there's so much freedom in that where you're not
(20:35):
so caught up on worrying all the time or catastrophizing things.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Surrender is a very powerful word, and we have so
little control. We really only have control over ourselves. There's
a fine line between letting your work become your In
my case, a lot of times it would avoid myself, right,
I could easily live in my.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Work like workaholism is a real thing.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Completely, and you don't have to deal with yourself when
you're busy, right, you can put on the show my case,
you know. And and a lot of people were even
with that first, with that album when it came out,
they first were just like, wait, what, you've never been
this person publicly as Stephanie Quail the artist, singer, songwriter,
(21:23):
what's all this? So yeah, it's really it's really something
to share it like this, And my hope is again
like shame is just a crazy thing. I remember when
I went to emotional rehab and I learned that guilt
last about three days. This is what one of the
psychologists was teaching me, and that guilt is I made
a mistake. Shame is I am a mistake And I
(21:50):
was living in that shame for so long, and even
in the healing process, just kind of like really getting
down to the shame of it, and man, I just
don't look at any conversation, any situation the same. There's
a lot more empathy and a lot more grace because boy,
(22:11):
have I been through it?
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Yes, you have. Who has been your support because you
talk about having your family and your close friends. Who
was that support system for you?
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Well, I've been with my husband now we're going on
ten years, almost married for nine, and I think he
always knew that I had more healing to do. He's
just very, very patient and not one of those kinds
of people that tells you it's like, you'll figure it out.
So he's just been an incredible pillar of strength. He
(22:44):
also is hilarious when he gets a little like protective.
As you read in the book my mom and my
stepmom especially writing the book was such a I had
to keep checking myself, you know, because I think I
had been thirteen years at the time of starting to
write the book and just checking like, did this really happen, Like,
(23:05):
am I remembering this correctly because it needs no exaggeration.
And they were really great, just pillars of strength during that.
My mom and my stepma were just like going, yes,
that really happened, and like going back and going through
those moments. And then my friends that I mentioned in
the book, Michelle, unfortunately she passed away with cancer. Sorry
to hear that, but she and Shelton have been with
(23:28):
me this whole time. And you know, you just you
just never know why or how people come into your
life and just hang out for the stuff that's really
really when most people leave. When he died, most people left,
and that was more protection for me than I realized
(23:49):
at the time. You know, you go through this like
what did I do? And you know, abandonment's a whole
other that could be a whole other podcast, so be
a whole other book that could be all well the book. Yeah,
so yeah, it's really interesting. But you know, I don't
have I don't have a lot of friends. I have
a lot of acquaintances. I wish there was another word
(24:10):
for that middle right, Like acquaintance seems so cold. A
friend is like if I call you my friend, that
means I would go in front of like a train
for you. So it's kind of like there's no like
middle word. We need like another word for that other.
But you don't really need a lot of people. You
just need the great right ones that love you and
your yuck and can hold you accountable but not judge you.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Those are very very important for this thing we're living,
this life.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
It's so weird, and you know, when I think about it,
like social media didn't exist, so at that time, you know,
I think about, like if that were to happen now,
like what that would have been like to live through,
and woof, I'm glad I didn't have to live it
like that publicly. I'm living it now, but I've done
the work to where I can talk about it hopefully
in a way that your listeners take something from it,
(24:58):
of hope, and that gives tools to those that don't
have the tools. Because I didn't have the tools. I
didn't even any of these terms were Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
This book, I mean, this book really lays it out
super simply, and the story is intriguing, captivating, and with
the therapy notes, it's like, oh, makes complete sense because
we're talking about the specific example and now we have
this definition. So if you are somebody who is going
(25:27):
through a relationship that you want to get out of,
if you're somebody fresh out of a relationship that was
toxic unhealthy, or if you are somebody who has been
out of a relationship for a while and just want
a reminder of the reasons not to get back into
a relationship like that, I highly recommend this book.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Thank you so much. I mean, I think we sometimes
forget that toxic relationships can go beyond the loves right,
it can go to our businesses and go to our friendships,
our family relationships. I think that's it just gives everyone
like a heads up, Yes, stronger we get, the less
we can get messed with.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
So you mentioned being in your nearly ten year healthy relationship,
it's just a dream. How did you get into something
so stable after something so Yeah, Hey, Audi.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
I don't really think I had anything to do with me.
I think that it was just gosh. I mean to me,
it's God. You know, I had done the work right,
I had spent a lot of time in like how
do I make me better? But it was just like, honestly,
(26:43):
when I saw him, I was like, I don't get
I don't get this guy. I don't get this guy.
I get the guy that like talks maybe like this guy,
but then is like ten other guys. You know, it's
not like it's not healthy. He just is so stable,
so healthy, so kind, you know. I think one of
the things I noticed about it now there's no drama.
You know. Sometimes I think I was taken by like
(27:06):
the charisma and the larger than lifeness that these others
had portrayed, and he's just solid. I'm like, wow, do
I get the good guy?
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (27:19):
You do?
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Yes, well, because a you're deserving of it and you've
done the work. I mean, yes, you do deserve the
good guy.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
At that time, it just was really daunting, you know,
And I think it even took time to believe that
this is real and trust it. But you know, like
you said, trust is everything. When you have trust, it's
very easy.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
I was in one relationship that was very a narcissistic,
codependent dynamic that ended, and then I got into another
relationship shortly after just drinking a lot, making bad decisions.
And now I've completely alcohol out of my life. I
(28:04):
cut this person out of my life. I'm you know,
making sure that I'm surrounding myself with healthier people. And
one of the things in the book, it says, like
when you are considering dating again, which you know, I
gave myself a year and I wasn't interested in anybody
(28:24):
or anything, you know, Like I thought, I'm never going
to find love again. I was like so off of it.
But now I'm finally in the place where I'm like, okay,
I like have these feelings of interest, which I didn't
think I was going to have for quite some time.
But now I'm like, okay, I want to be friends first,
(28:47):
and I want to take it slow, and it literally
feels like molasses slow, which I think is a good
thing because my issue was I was following in love
with these men that you know, it's such a whirlwind
romance and it was so quick, and I was head
(29:09):
over heels in a way, compromising my own self, compromising
my own values, and I fell in love before really
knowing who this person is, before knowing their values. And
I'm like, okay, I can't do that again. I will
not do that again or myself.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
You know, when I look back on these toxic relationships,
I didn't really have a full scope of who they were,
there was so much I didn't I didn't look into
without being like, you know, a criminal investigator, which you know. Afterward,
I'm like, hummm, you know, like putting all the pieces together.
But I think the word you said that just like
(29:49):
hit me in the face. Compromise yourself. And one of
the things I remember my husband saying very early on,
he says, I never want us to compromise to be together.
I always want it to feel like a win win.
I don't ever want you to feel like you're compromising
(30:10):
something about you to be with me or vice versa,
like I want it to be it's always a win win.
And I love that because I do think I very
much when you said compromise my values, man, I like
resonated so much with that because I would never watch
one of my friends do what I did, and yet
(30:33):
I totally let myself do that, you know, And I
think your approach is really really solid for you. I
think that's awesome. I think that's great advice for anyone.
Like slows fast, slow as fast, because when you think
about it, you won't have to go through that learning
later that then hurts you more so.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
True now that you've experienced a stable relationship and obviously
you're toxic history. What is the difference to you, Like,
can you define that toxicity and outline what that looks
like in those relationships?
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Yeah, I think I would say if it doesn't feel
right in my gut, in my intuition, in my heart,
in my mind, not where I'm like trying to logically
like turn it right, because we are capable of doing that. Oh,
like we can make it better and convince ourselves like,
oh no, it's not that bad when it's actually bad.
I don't question myself ever anymore. I do not question
(31:35):
if something doesn't feel right, that is enough for me.
I don't try to figure out why something doesn't feel right,
whereas before I would go to like the ends of
the earth to try to figure it out. Also, like,
I hope that you walk away from this conversation going
she made me feel better, like it was a lift, right.
I want to lift people up, and I want to
(31:57):
be around people that lift me up. So one of
the things that I it's hard to let go people,
but I don't have anyone around me anymore that doesn't
lift That doesn't mean they don't challenge me, right, Like
they'll they'll hold me accountable. But I don't walk away
feeling like my light's being dimmed or being dismissed, you know,
having those courageous conversations, because that's not how it's supposed
(32:19):
to be. And to have that kind of respect and trust,
that's very healthy territory. And so now I don't even
I don't even waste my time with the other And
I will say this if I sent someone is trying
to be manipulative, Like I just had this happen with business,
where someone didn't do their homework on what I've done
in my work, and I just let him go, let
(32:42):
him go down this you know, rabbit hole of teaching
me about the music industry. And I just waited. And
then he mentioned someone that he knew, and I said, oh,
that's great, I'll call it right now. And he didn't
have a relationship. It was all it was all horsemen
to her.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
Oh God.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
But you know, it's kind of like I wasn't trying
to be like I just you know, I'm just like,
I'm gonna let this guy go for a minute. I'm
gonna let him go and then I'm gonna see you know,
And that's kind of where I'm like, okay, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
No, Okay. So you're a country musician, and I love
how you opened in the book. You were like, you know,
heartbreak is meant for country songs. Why choose the book
(33:34):
as a medium for this story?
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Yeah? So I think with the album that I did,
you know, there's only so much you can say in
a song, and you can say a lot. I've packed
a lot in three minutes and thirty seconds. But I
thought that this would be a way to tell the
whole story and let it be a help. I think
with everything I've ever done with my music is like, Okay,
(33:58):
sometimes I write songs as deep as a dog dish,
let's be honest, and then some others that are like,
you know, really deep music, deep songs and have that purpose.
And I love that I've been able to kind of
go to all those places. I think there's no room
for interpretation with this book, and with music, there's a
lot of room for interpretation. And when I'm performing, I
(34:18):
usually get like tiny little moments in between the songs
where I'm like, but I have so much more I
want to tell you, and if I can like speak
into your life in a way that helps you, and
they're like, shut up and sang. You know, but I
have more to say, So it's my more to say.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
That must be so empowering for you.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Oh well, just you know, here it comes.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Yeah, yeah, ready or not here it comes.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
I think you're ready, I hope.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
So what is the main takeaway that you want people
to learn from reading your book?
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Gosh, you are your greatest advocate, You're your greatest investment,
and you have only for the rest of your life
every day, so be good to you. That would be it.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
Yeah, that's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
That was so not good to me. Won't ever let
that happen again.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
What did you learn about yourself? Hmm?
Speaker 2 (35:17):
I am really a great friend to others, great stepmom,
great wife, all those things, and that I put I
usually put myself last, and now it's like, no, I
can be better for others if I take care of myself.
And that's not selfish, it's just the right thing to do.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Your book can be used as a tool. What is
the most important tool that a reader can use?
Speaker 2 (35:42):
I think knowing the signs, knowing what to look for,
understanding what it means, understanding how you feel. You know,
and I think we live in a time where you
have more access to help. When I think back to
that time, it wasn't that someone gave me like a list, okay,
like okay, you need to go to grief counseling because
(36:05):
you're greeting, you need to go to like how to
survive a narcissists relationship anonymous group Like I didn't have access,
you know, and it wasn't like, hey, go do this.
You know. One of the things I remember back like
when I first started grief counseling, I just said, man,
I'm like, let me show others that are going through
this grieving process to know that they shouldn't wait because
(36:28):
you can't outrun grief. And I really thought I could.
And now there's just access to so much that you
really can get the information. If it's a virtual therapist,
if it's you know, going to emotional rehab like I did,
where you're with two psychologists and they just like peel
you apart for six days. That was a lot. Oh
(36:49):
but great, but a lot. You know, grief counseling, all
those things. You are absolutely worth that investment of time, right,
I think we can so get occupied. And I'm saying
this about myself with work and other things we like,
I'll deal with that later, but you are your greatest
like you are your little temple, your vessel, like you
(37:11):
have to take care of you and everything else can wait.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
When I was younger, I wish I knew that my
value doesn't come from my contribution to somebody else, or
don't fall in love with the potential of who somebody
could be. Just realizing now you have to really love
the person that's right in front of you in this
moment as they.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Are, or get gone right yes, or.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Get gone and find somebody that you do feel that way.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Yea, yeah, My mom said, I think I and this
might have been with the guy that I you know,
he wasn't toxic, he was just young and didn't like
to work. She goes, if you think you're going to
change him, you're the only one that's going to change,
mama preach. And I'm like, oh, but like if he
only you know, oh gosh, I hate that statement, if
(38:03):
only he could do blah blah blah. I mean that's like,
come on, like, no, if he's not doing it already,
he do it. But I remember that, like, if you
think someone else is going to change. You're the only
one that's going to like in a relationship.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Yeah. I just wanted to ask because you mentioned emotional
rehab in the book and you've talked about it on
the podcast today. Was that like a scary experience deciding
to go in or were you like I've tried everything
else and this is like what's next for me?
Speaker 2 (38:33):
It was like my hail Mary. I mean, I don't
know if I drank an entire handle of vodka, but
I'm not a very big person, and it was it
was it was you know when I say I'm lucky
to have survived, that, I'm lucky to survive that it
was my half to and it wasn't because someone else
told me I had to. It was like whoa, whoa, whoa,
Like we are beyond a place that I know what
(38:56):
to do. And again I was just I was the
common denominator. You know, That's one thing I really am
specific about, Like I was complicit. I chose those relationships,
you know, I stayed, and that's that's where a lot
of shame came from. I'm smarter than that. How many
(39:16):
times have I heard, oh, but you're smarter than that, Like,
no one needs to hear they're smarter than that, like
everyone is susceptible to things when people are professional manipulators.
Once I got in it, Rachel, like, once I was
with these you know, incredible psychologists that like break it down,
you know, and I think when it's simple, we don't
need things to be complicated. It's already complicated, like the
(39:40):
messaging and the information to really take it in. I
just I walked away going, Okay, I have more understanding.
I wasn't fixed right, Like I wasn't like all right,
all as well now, but.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
I was understand more. You understand your behaviors. You understand
and the reasons behind them. When I went to the Meadows,
which is an intensive trauma therapy center residential program, so chaotic,
and I couldn't. I didn't know what to do. I
was so lost. I was like, Okay, I think I'm
more codependent than I thought I was. I think I
(40:18):
have some serious issues. I know I'm in an unhealthy relationship. Yeah,
I can't stop talking to this man. And my whole
world flipped upside down and I was like I need help,
and I knew I had to go somewhere, and it
wasn't somebody telling me you should go to this places
like mom, I think I need to go somewhere. And
(40:39):
it was scary. It was a very scary decision to make.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
That takes a ton of courage. It is so much
easier to just go through the motions. And so when
you now looking back now I'm flipping.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
The interview on you.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
Now as you look back though, now you know and
so now you can help so many other people make
that choice for themselves, to choose themselves. And that's a
big thing, you know, And I think that's that's a
big part of why we're called to share.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
Yeah. Absolutely, that's why I'm doing this podcast, and that's
why You've written a book. And I'm so thrilled for you.
It's called Why Do We Stay? And Stephanie, I'm just
so thankful to have you on here to share your
story and to be so vulnerable with the messaging and
(41:32):
the execution. And it's such an easy read. You guys
like you'll love it if you pick this book up.
And where can we find you? Can we find you
on Instagram?
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Yes, I'm on all the places anywhere social Stephanie quail
dot com for tour dates and I will be doing
a little book tour, so I hopefully will be popping
into La So if you're around.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
Awesome, Yeah, I'd love to come by. Thank you hell
so much for listening to Rachel Goes Rogue. Follow us
on Instagram and TikTok for exclusive video content at Rachel
gos Rogue Podcast
This is Rachel Go's Rogue. Welcome back to another episode
of Rachel Goes Rogue. This is your host, Rachel Savannah Lovis,
and today we have Stephanie Quail. She's a country star
whose accomplishments span from performing at the Opry to performing
(00:26):
for US presidents. Her latest accomplishment writing her newest book,
Why Do We Stay, her true story of surviving a
toxic relationship and breaking down why we stay with them.
In her book, Stephanie uses her voice and past experiences
to break down how to spot toxic relationships, how to
(00:47):
navigate them, and how to heal in the aftermath. Stephanie's
book serves not only as a resource, but as a
reminder that you are not alone. Please welcome Stephanie Quayle. Hi, Stephanie,
how are you.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
I'm great, It's so great to meet you.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
I'm so happy to have you on Rachel gos Rogue.
I feel like we have a lot in common. After
reading your book, I'm like I literally was on the
edge of my seat and I could relate to so
many things that you were talking about. And one of
the things that I just appreciated so much with how
your book was written was the therapist psychologist inserts that
(01:30):
you had on there to define certain terms and to
explain certain things, and then also give pointers on like
advice and questions to ask yourself. Oh, it was so
good and it was such an easy read. So I
just wanted to congratulate you.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Thank you for taking the time to read it, because
it is a it packs a punch, and I appreciate that.
You know, I didn't have this book in my early twenties.
So that's the hope, right that a lot of young
women will get their hands on it and get the
information because we don't know a lot of times what
we're walking into until we're in it and then once
(02:07):
we're out of it, or like, oh, yeah, I wish
I would have known that.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Yeah, yep. So obviously you have an impressive music career.
Did you ever see yourself writing a book?
Speaker 2 (02:19):
You know? After the plane crash, I there was just
so much information that was new to me, and my
trust was shot, right, Like I trusted maybe like my
parents and a very few people that I remember talking
to my stepmom and we were just like, one day,
you'll have to write a book because this is just
stranger than fiction. There's no way you could have seen
(02:42):
this coming, right, And so I thought one day, Rachel
I would write a book, but I didn't know it
would come in this form or at this time. And
really the album on the Edge was the catalyst for Okay,
this story can help people. I think a lot of times,
you know, especially when you're in this crazy business that
we're in, it's like, how much do you tell? Is
(03:04):
it actually doing anything? Or is it just going to
cause more adventures and maybe unnecessary and unwanted adventures. So,
you know, with the album, it really showed me, Okay,
there is a need to have these conversations. There's so
much shame with making the wrong decisions or staying in
the wrong relationships or whatever that is that I think
(03:25):
it's really been the beginning of opening up those conversations,
at least what I've experienced. And then the book is
you know, it's so much more than a memoir. And
I appreciate you saying that because it gives the information
we don't have the terms. We don't sometimes know what
we're feeling and going through. At least I have no
idea that everything that was happening to me I had
(03:46):
really nothing to do with yeah, you know, and I
think a lot of times. You know, look, love is potent,
and you know, I just wanted him to be all
the things that I thought he could be, and you know,
and that happened with toxic number two as well. And
you know, potentializing people is something that I that I
(04:08):
fell prey to, and you know, being able to see
people for actually who they are and believing them when
they show us who they are. And hopefully this will
be a guide for many, you know, because it's different
with a song. I have three minutes and you can interpret.
It's all there on the page. There's not really a
lot of gray.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
So your lover boyfriend, Paulo, he was very charismatic, charming,
and you fell in love pretty quickly, and he ended
up being a narcissist and he was cheating on you,
and one day you got the news that he was
in a project plane crash and had passed away.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
So crazy, I was, you know, building this life with him,
living with him, raising his daughter with him. And we
were at home. I was making dinner. I had a
show that night, so it was just like any other night.
She was working on her homework and I got the
call that there had been an accident, so I put
her in the car. We drove faster than I've ever
driven down the pch very great, grateful that I didn't
(05:13):
get pulled, and we got to the Santa Monica Airport
and at that time we didn't know that he had
he was dead. We just knew that there had been
an accident, and so we ran out to the runway
and they wouldn't let us go any further getting closer
to the plane crash and he was piloting the plane.
That was a Wednesday, Rachel and on Sunday at the
(05:33):
memorial is when I learned I wasn't the only woman.
And then that was confirmed when one of my friends
came to my house and said, you've got to move on,
and I'm like, wait a second, I'm still dealing with
dental records, Like.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
It's too much to process.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
How can you move on?
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Like wow?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
And I know our friends say things, you know, in
the heat of the moment, they're just angry, so it's like, no,
just get over.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
It was she suspecting that this relationship was toxic to
be with.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
I think that she so wanted it to work, and
she so wanted because we were this little family, right,
and everyone, I mean I think everyone. I can't I
can't speak for everyone. It came across like how could
I be with a bad guy? So I think I
was validating for a lot of people when it came
(06:21):
to him, And because I'm raising his kid and we
are living this life together, so we thought right, And
so I think she was really legitimately angry. I think
there were, of course moments. You know, you look back
and you're like when you cock your head and like
you're like that doesn't add up, Or you ask certain
questions and they're met with your insecure you're crazy, you
(06:42):
don't know what you're talking about?
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Gaslighting? Oh cool?
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Where do they go to school for this? You know
what I mean? Like, where did they get the handbook
on how to be a narcissist? Because once you start
reading the terms too, you're like, it's so obvious, But
when you're in it, it's so not obvious.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Yeah, And then when you're out of it and you
look back on it, you're like, how did I miss this?
It was so clear? But I think you're just so
wrapped up in I think for you too, with the daughter,
his daughter, that you were taken care of, and you
felt like you had this role and I could just
(07:21):
tell you're a very empathetic person and feel valued adding
value to somebody else's life. And I think all of
those things are so layered, and then you create the
story that you want to believe is true. But this
person has a secret life.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Like he mustn't be so tired.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
How did he have so many women? Because the thing
is all of these women ended up showing up to
his funeral, right, you were like, who are all of
these people? Yes?
Speaker 2 (07:50):
And there were all these moments where I was where
I just I mean, Eden and I had planned on
speaking at the memorial, right, like this is how our family.
We were going to share our family moments and thank
everyone for being there, and we both were just in
a sea of strangers. And I couldn't put my finger
(08:11):
on it. She couldn't put her finger on it, and
so we just kind of said, I don't I don't
think that this is the time. Let's wait to the
private funeral, the family funeral, and if we want to
share stuff, we can. And I had a few moments
where I was like, what would those women just say?
As I'm walking by mourning the death of the love
of my life, you know. And I had a you know,
(08:32):
a friend who watched a woman throw her glass of
wine at the you know, the projection screen that was
showing like our family videos and family photos, and she
ran out of there. No one caught her. Who was
that lady, I mean, Rachel, I don't even know to
the level of how many, I don't even know. I
don't even know.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Were there signs of infidelity along the way? Looking back?
Did you miss those things or did you ignore them?
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Gosh, that's a really great question, I think now, because
I know so much, I don't even when I would
cock my head or be like, why are you talking
to that woman? I think I never could conceive the
idea that he would go all the way. I sound
like a teenager all the way, meaning like actually have
(09:23):
a relationship with someone else, or be intimate with someone else.
I think that, like, because he was so charismatic, and
you know, men just wanted to hang out with him.
They were just so drawn to him. Women just kind
of you know, they were too, but they obviously got
a little closer. And I don't think I ever thought
(09:45):
he was cheating on me. I think I was like,
why are you acting like this? And it got met
with why are you so crazy? Why are you so insecure?
Now looking back at the you know, late nights at
work or what was when it was a Christmas it
was our last Christmas together actually where he said he
had to work and he was actually with one of
(10:05):
the other women, and I just could never have I
don't know. I guess I don't think I did, because
I was so sure that I was his person. I'm
raising his kid with him. I even said to him
at one point, I'm like, hey, if I'm not your person,
just let me go, just let me go. And I
think that's like intoxicating to a narcissist. I think that
(10:30):
like moth to a flame when you try to leave.
So no, I don't think I could fathom it now,
it's hard to not see it all.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Something in your book, too, that I could also relate with,
is after this relationship ended and you were grieving and
looking back and like realizing all of these things about
this person that you thought you knew so well, you
ended up getting into another relationship before healing, and it
(11:00):
seemed like the patterns kept repeating until you learned the lesson.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Yes. Yeah, the message in what you just said is
so potent and so powerful. Do the work and the
healing before you go into another relationship. I didn't, you know.
And I was so vulnerable and so fragile that I was.
I was an easy target. But I thought I was good,
you know, I think you know. I'm like, no, I'm fine,
(11:25):
I'm just going to push through. I'm going to get
over it. I'm going to move on. And he got me.
I remember when he said to me toxic number two,
which is the Prince in the book. He said, I'm
going to show you that you can trust men again.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
I had.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
I mean trust, I think is if you don't have trust,
you don't have anything right. And I was so I think,
looking for someone to fix what was very broken. All
the while it was me who was going to fix me.
But it just it just met me in the moment
(12:02):
I was in. It was the one phrase that again
like if you were to call like one eight hundred
how to be a narcissist, like it would have been
to use this phrase, and he nailed it. And yeah,
I mean I was guarded with him, but I was
with him right, And that one led me downe a
(12:22):
very dangerous path because I hadn't done the work, I
hadn't done the healing. So then it was just really
compounded when I learned that he had also been cheating
on me.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
And this is like when you're about like twenty eight,
twenty eight years old.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Twenty so he died when I was twenty nine, so
twenty nine thirty. Yeah, okay. It started my adventures in
toxicity early twenties, which I think were just so susceptible too.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Yeah, what was your first toxic relationship? Looking back now,
was there something that you can pinpoint as like your
very first toxic dynamic in a relationship?
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Gosh, I'm trying to think, like my little boyfriends before
Paulo were just like children. I mean I lovingly say that.
I mean they were just boys. They weren't ready for relationships, right,
so they weren't toxic. They just weren't. I mean, get
off the couch, buddy, you gotta get a job, like
(13:19):
I can't work this many jobs and you're just chilling
on the couch, like how are we here? So I
don't know if that when I look at that, I
don't look at it as like toxic. I just look
at it as very unequally yoked.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Yeah, so you were like kind of inexperienced before meeting Paulo.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
He was older and he just was captivating and I
was all in. And you know, as you read in
the book, when we first met, I was in a
relationship with this young guy and we were just living
our lives. So when I met Paula, it was just
this is a guy with a kid, and we became friends.
And that's what is also referenced in the book as
(13:59):
a way of grooming, where you familiarize someone and make
it feel like family. You know, he referred to me
as his little sister when he would introduce me to people,
and then that's weird. That's a sneaky, sneaky trick, yeah,
because it makes you feel.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Safe and it also gives him availability to other women around.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Him totally, and to be honest, which I don't know
for a fact, I'm sure I was the other woman
to some other woman, right, So who knows who was
there when I thought I was starting this relationship with him, Right,
there's someone out there that might look at me like
I was the other woman, And I get it. It's
(14:44):
a crazy thing when that happens.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
When did your grief turned to anger? Because for me,
I did a fantasy buster list where I wrote down,
like all of the red flags, all of the situations
that I was put in, the undeniable things that he
said to me, like that I remember clear as day.
And then once I had a full list, it was like, Okay,
now I'm just angry. Yeah, did you reach that point
(15:21):
in your stages of grief?
Speaker 2 (15:24):
You know, because you know, the crash was Wednesday, and
I went into mode.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
I had to call his mom, I had to call
his his daughter's mother, and just start doing while grieving, right,
So I think I grieved ish between Wednesday and Sunday,
which was five days when I learned that I had
been lied to for the entire time, I was beyond angry.
(15:50):
So I went into anger. And I could do anger
really well. I was, you know, really good at that
I could.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Handle this anger. Look like for you just.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Like like, what was a bunch of bullshit? You know,
it's pretty mild, But internally I was, you know, burning
up inside, burning and I just looked at everyone like
a liar, which is very unhealthy. And then I didn't
get to grief counseling until gosh was it like two
and a half years later, And then you know, when
(16:21):
I found out the toxic number two, the prince was
cheating on me. I didn't take it out on him.
I took it out on me. And I remember calling
my stepmom on my drive home just saying, I just
want the pain to stop. I just it's not that
I wanted to take my life. I just wanted the
(16:43):
pain to stop. And then that led to drinking myself
to a place that was very dangerous. And that was
that was a very hard next day to look myself
in the mirror and be like, no, no, no, no,
this is not the option. Is not the option to
do the work. It's going to be hard, but your
(17:03):
life is worth living. And that's that was what That
was one of the hardest parts of the book to write.
The other one was that New Year's Eve writing that
broke me down.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
My jaw was on the floor.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
A tough one.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Uh. My heart goes out to you. Yeah, just chills.
I commend you for your vulnerability and I'm sure that
was not an easy thing to write about.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
No, but just what we will you know, I'm not
saying we as we but collectively, like I in that
moment was willing to subject myself to so much to
please someone else, you know. And I go back to
the fact that I was already good enough. I didn't
(17:52):
need to be more. And I had such a strange relationship,
especially with Paulo, where he anytime I questioned him, it
was your insecure, you're crazy and he only called me
by my last name, which then makes you wonder did
he not want to mess up another woman's name when
talking to me, and then just thinking about the second one,
(18:15):
like I kept putting it on me versus being like, no,
you're the problem. You're the problem, and I'm just gonna
check out, like I'm just gonna, you know, let y'all
go do this with somebody else.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
So the book is called why do We Stay? Why
do We Stay?
Speaker 2 (18:35):
I think I stayed because I thought that if I
just kept getting better that they would become all I
thought they could be. I think we stay because we
think it will get better, you know. I think I
stayed because when it was great, it was great. And
that's why I even define the fact that, like I
(18:56):
didn't leave my first toxic relationship. The only way I
left was he died and I don't know what would
have happened.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
That's nuts. It's like kind of crazy because there's circumstances
outside of your own power that took him away from you.
And then all of this was revealed, and so is
it's just shocking. But then it's like, is this a
blessing and disguise in a way?
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Right?
Speaker 1 (19:24):
I circled something. So this is after you lost Paulo,
and I think it was also after the relationship with
Prince had ended as well, and you said I was
more than happy to lose myself in my work. So
this is you trying to move on. This is you
like getting back into your life and trying to rediscover
(19:47):
who you are because you've lost your identity and these men,
in fact, I felt like the whole world was aligning
in my favor. Finally there was my chance, maybe there
was a reason I'd have to suffer so much, finally
going to be able to make ends meet financially through
my music. Things seem to be coming together in the
most extraordinary way, as if they had God written all
(20:10):
over them. It felt like the perfect storm of giving back,
living my purpose and building my business. Don donc yeah,
I just Oh, there's so much to just surrendering and
knowing that there is a net always that will catch you,
and there's so much freedom in that where you're not
(20:35):
so caught up on worrying all the time or catastrophizing things.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Surrender is a very powerful word, and we have so
little control. We really only have control over ourselves. There's
a fine line between letting your work become your In
my case, a lot of times it would avoid myself, right,
I could easily live in my.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Work like workaholism is a real thing.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Completely, and you don't have to deal with yourself when
you're busy, right, you can put on the show my case,
you know. And and a lot of people were even
with that first, with that album when it came out,
they first were just like, wait, what, you've never been
this person publicly as Stephanie Quail the artist, singer, songwriter,
(21:23):
what's all this? So yeah, it's really it's really something
to share it like this, And my hope is again
like shame is just a crazy thing. I remember when
I went to emotional rehab and I learned that guilt
last about three days. This is what one of the
psychologists was teaching me, and that guilt is I made
a mistake. Shame is I am a mistake And I
(21:50):
was living in that shame for so long, and even
in the healing process, just kind of like really getting
down to the shame of it, and man, I just
don't look at any conversation, any situation the same. There's
a lot more empathy and a lot more grace because boy,
(22:11):
have I been through it?
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Yes, you have. Who has been your support because you
talk about having your family and your close friends. Who
was that support system for you?
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Well, I've been with my husband now we're going on
ten years, almost married for nine, and I think he
always knew that I had more healing to do. He's
just very, very patient and not one of those kinds
of people that tells you it's like, you'll figure it out.
So he's just been an incredible pillar of strength. He
(22:44):
also is hilarious when he gets a little like protective.
As you read in the book my mom and my
stepmom especially writing the book was such a I had
to keep checking myself, you know, because I think I
had been thirteen years at the time of starting to
write the book and just checking like, did this really happen, Like,
(23:05):
am I remembering this correctly because it needs no exaggeration.
And they were really great, just pillars of strength during that.
My mom and my stepma were just like going, yes,
that really happened, and like going back and going through
those moments. And then my friends that I mentioned in
the book, Michelle, unfortunately she passed away with cancer. Sorry
to hear that, but she and Shelton have been with
(23:28):
me this whole time. And you know, you just you
just never know why or how people come into your
life and just hang out for the stuff that's really
really when most people leave. When he died, most people left,
and that was more protection for me than I realized
(23:49):
at the time. You know, you go through this like
what did I do? And you know, abandonment's a whole
other that could be a whole other podcast, so be
a whole other book that could be all well the book. Yeah,
so yeah, it's really interesting. But you know, I don't
have I don't have a lot of friends. I have
a lot of acquaintances. I wish there was another word
(24:10):
for that middle right, Like acquaintance seems so cold. A
friend is like if I call you my friend, that
means I would go in front of like a train
for you. So it's kind of like there's no like
middle word. We need like another word for that other.
But you don't really need a lot of people. You
just need the great right ones that love you and
your yuck and can hold you accountable but not judge you.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Those are very very important for this thing we're living,
this life.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
It's so weird, and you know, when I think about it,
like social media didn't exist, so at that time, you know,
I think about, like if that were to happen now,
like what that would have been like to live through,
and woof, I'm glad I didn't have to live it
like that publicly. I'm living it now, but I've done
the work to where I can talk about it hopefully
in a way that your listeners take something from it,
(24:58):
of hope, and that gives tools to those that don't
have the tools. Because I didn't have the tools. I
didn't even any of these terms were Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
This book, I mean, this book really lays it out
super simply, and the story is intriguing, captivating, and with
the therapy notes, it's like, oh, makes complete sense because
we're talking about the specific example and now we have
this definition. So if you are somebody who is going
(25:27):
through a relationship that you want to get out of,
if you're somebody fresh out of a relationship that was
toxic unhealthy, or if you are somebody who has been
out of a relationship for a while and just want
a reminder of the reasons not to get back into
a relationship like that, I highly recommend this book.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Thank you so much. I mean, I think we sometimes
forget that toxic relationships can go beyond the loves right,
it can go to our businesses and go to our friendships,
our family relationships. I think that's it just gives everyone
like a heads up, Yes, stronger we get, the less
we can get messed with.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
So you mentioned being in your nearly ten year healthy relationship,
it's just a dream. How did you get into something
so stable after something so Yeah, Hey, Audi.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
I don't really think I had anything to do with me.
I think that it was just gosh. I mean to me,
it's God. You know, I had done the work right,
I had spent a lot of time in like how
do I make me better? But it was just like, honestly,
(26:43):
when I saw him, I was like, I don't get
I don't get this guy. I don't get this guy.
I get the guy that like talks maybe like this guy,
but then is like ten other guys. You know, it's
not like it's not healthy. He just is so stable,
so healthy, so kind, you know. I think one of
the things I noticed about it now there's no drama.
You know. Sometimes I think I was taken by like
(27:06):
the charisma and the larger than lifeness that these others
had portrayed, and he's just solid. I'm like, wow, do
I get the good guy?
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (27:19):
You do?
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Yes, well, because a you're deserving of it and you've
done the work. I mean, yes, you do deserve the
good guy.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
At that time, it just was really daunting, you know,
And I think it even took time to believe that
this is real and trust it. But you know, like
you said, trust is everything. When you have trust, it's
very easy.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
I was in one relationship that was very a narcissistic,
codependent dynamic that ended, and then I got into another
relationship shortly after just drinking a lot, making bad decisions.
And now I've completely alcohol out of my life. I
(28:04):
cut this person out of my life. I'm you know,
making sure that I'm surrounding myself with healthier people. And
one of the things in the book, it says, like
when you are considering dating again, which you know, I
gave myself a year and I wasn't interested in anybody
(28:24):
or anything, you know, Like I thought, I'm never going
to find love again. I was like so off of it.
But now I'm finally in the place where I'm like, okay,
I like have these feelings of interest, which I didn't
think I was going to have for quite some time.
But now I'm like, okay, I want to be friends first,
(28:47):
and I want to take it slow, and it literally
feels like molasses slow, which I think is a good
thing because my issue was I was following in love
with these men that you know, it's such a whirlwind
romance and it was so quick, and I was head
(29:09):
over heels in a way, compromising my own self, compromising
my own values, and I fell in love before really
knowing who this person is, before knowing their values. And
I'm like, okay, I can't do that again. I will
not do that again or myself.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
You know, when I look back on these toxic relationships,
I didn't really have a full scope of who they were,
there was so much I didn't I didn't look into
without being like, you know, a criminal investigator, which you know. Afterward,
I'm like, hummm, you know, like putting all the pieces together.
But I think the word you said that just like
(29:49):
hit me in the face. Compromise yourself. And one of
the things I remember my husband saying very early on,
he says, I never want us to compromise to be together.
I always want it to feel like a win win.
I don't ever want you to feel like you're compromising
(30:10):
something about you to be with me or vice versa,
like I want it to be it's always a win win.
And I love that because I do think I very
much when you said compromise my values, man, I like
resonated so much with that because I would never watch
one of my friends do what I did, and yet
(30:33):
I totally let myself do that, you know, And I
think your approach is really really solid for you. I
think that's awesome. I think that's great advice for anyone.
Like slows fast, slow as fast, because when you think
about it, you won't have to go through that learning
later that then hurts you more so.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
True now that you've experienced a stable relationship and obviously
you're toxic history. What is the difference to you, Like,
can you define that toxicity and outline what that looks
like in those relationships?
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Yeah, I think I would say if it doesn't feel
right in my gut, in my intuition, in my heart,
in my mind, not where I'm like trying to logically
like turn it right, because we are capable of doing that. Oh,
like we can make it better and convince ourselves like,
oh no, it's not that bad when it's actually bad.
I don't question myself ever anymore. I do not question
(31:35):
if something doesn't feel right, that is enough for me.
I don't try to figure out why something doesn't feel right,
whereas before I would go to like the ends of
the earth to try to figure it out. Also, like,
I hope that you walk away from this conversation going
she made me feel better, like it was a lift, right.
I want to lift people up, and I want to
(31:57):
be around people that lift me up. So one of
the things that I it's hard to let go people,
but I don't have anyone around me anymore that doesn't
lift That doesn't mean they don't challenge me, right, Like
they'll they'll hold me accountable. But I don't walk away
feeling like my light's being dimmed or being dismissed, you know,
having those courageous conversations, because that's not how it's supposed
(32:19):
to be. And to have that kind of respect and trust,
that's very healthy territory. And so now I don't even
I don't even waste my time with the other And
I will say this if I sent someone is trying
to be manipulative, Like I just had this happen with business,
where someone didn't do their homework on what I've done
in my work, and I just let him go, let
(32:42):
him go down this you know, rabbit hole of teaching
me about the music industry. And I just waited. And
then he mentioned someone that he knew, and I said, oh,
that's great, I'll call it right now. And he didn't
have a relationship. It was all it was all horsemen
to her.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
Oh God.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
But you know, it's kind of like I wasn't trying
to be like I just you know, I'm just like,
I'm gonna let this guy go for a minute. I'm
gonna let him go and then I'm gonna see you know,
And that's kind of where I'm like, okay, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
No, Okay. So you're a country musician, and I love
how you opened in the book. You were like, you know,
heartbreak is meant for country songs. Why choose the book
(33:34):
as a medium for this story?
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Yeah? So I think with the album that I did,
you know, there's only so much you can say in
a song, and you can say a lot. I've packed
a lot in three minutes and thirty seconds. But I
thought that this would be a way to tell the
whole story and let it be a help. I think
with everything I've ever done with my music is like, Okay,
(33:58):
sometimes I write songs as deep as a dog dish,
let's be honest, and then some others that are like,
you know, really deep music, deep songs and have that purpose.
And I love that I've been able to kind of
go to all those places. I think there's no room
for interpretation with this book, and with music, there's a
lot of room for interpretation. And when I'm performing, I
(34:18):
usually get like tiny little moments in between the songs
where I'm like, but I have so much more I
want to tell you, and if I can like speak
into your life in a way that helps you, and
they're like, shut up and sang. You know, but I
have more to say, So it's my more to say.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
That must be so empowering for you.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Oh well, just you know, here it comes.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Yeah, yeah, ready or not here it comes.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
I think you're ready, I hope.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
So what is the main takeaway that you want people
to learn from reading your book?
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Gosh, you are your greatest advocate, You're your greatest investment,
and you have only for the rest of your life
every day, so be good to you. That would be it.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
Yeah, that's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
That was so not good to me. Won't ever let
that happen again.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
What did you learn about yourself? Hmm?
Speaker 2 (35:17):
I am really a great friend to others, great stepmom,
great wife, all those things, and that I put I
usually put myself last, and now it's like, no, I
can be better for others if I take care of myself.
And that's not selfish, it's just the right thing to do.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Your book can be used as a tool. What is
the most important tool that a reader can use?
Speaker 2 (35:42):
I think knowing the signs, knowing what to look for,
understanding what it means, understanding how you feel. You know,
and I think we live in a time where you
have more access to help. When I think back to
that time, it wasn't that someone gave me like a list, okay,
like okay, you need to go to grief counseling because
(36:05):
you're greeting, you need to go to like how to
survive a narcissists relationship anonymous group Like I didn't have access,
you know, and it wasn't like, hey, go do this.
You know. One of the things I remember back like
when I first started grief counseling, I just said, man,
I'm like, let me show others that are going through
this grieving process to know that they shouldn't wait because
(36:28):
you can't outrun grief. And I really thought I could.
And now there's just access to so much that you
really can get the information. If it's a virtual therapist,
if it's you know, going to emotional rehab like I did,
where you're with two psychologists and they just like peel
you apart for six days. That was a lot. Oh
(36:49):
but great, but a lot. You know, grief counseling, all
those things. You are absolutely worth that investment of time, right,
I think we can so get occupied. And I'm saying
this about myself with work and other things we like,
I'll deal with that later, but you are your greatest
like you are your little temple, your vessel, like you
(37:11):
have to take care of you and everything else can wait.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
When I was younger, I wish I knew that my
value doesn't come from my contribution to somebody else, or
don't fall in love with the potential of who somebody
could be. Just realizing now you have to really love
the person that's right in front of you in this
moment as they.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Are, or get gone right yes, or.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Get gone and find somebody that you do feel that way.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Yea, yeah, My mom said, I think I and this
might have been with the guy that I you know,
he wasn't toxic, he was just young and didn't like
to work. She goes, if you think you're going to
change him, you're the only one that's going to change,
mama preach. And I'm like, oh, but like if he
only you know, oh gosh, I hate that statement, if
(38:03):
only he could do blah blah blah. I mean that's like,
come on, like, no, if he's not doing it already,
he do it. But I remember that, like, if you
think someone else is going to change. You're the only
one that's going to like in a relationship.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Yeah. I just wanted to ask because you mentioned emotional
rehab in the book and you've talked about it on
the podcast today. Was that like a scary experience deciding
to go in or were you like I've tried everything
else and this is like what's next for me?
Speaker 2 (38:33):
It was like my hail Mary. I mean, I don't
know if I drank an entire handle of vodka, but
I'm not a very big person, and it was it
was it was you know when I say I'm lucky
to have survived, that, I'm lucky to survive that it
was my half to and it wasn't because someone else
told me I had to. It was like whoa, whoa, whoa,
Like we are beyond a place that I know what
(38:56):
to do. And again I was just I was the
common denominator. You know, That's one thing I really am
specific about, Like I was complicit. I chose those relationships,
you know, I stayed, and that's that's where a lot
of shame came from. I'm smarter than that. How many
(39:16):
times have I heard, oh, but you're smarter than that, Like,
no one needs to hear they're smarter than that, like
everyone is susceptible to things when people are professional manipulators.
Once I got in it, Rachel, like, once I was
with these you know, incredible psychologists that like break it down,
you know, and I think when it's simple, we don't
need things to be complicated. It's already complicated, like the
(39:40):
messaging and the information to really take it in. I
just I walked away going, Okay, I have more understanding.
I wasn't fixed right, Like I wasn't like all right,
all as well now, but.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
I was understand more. You understand your behaviors. You understand
and the reasons behind them. When I went to the Meadows,
which is an intensive trauma therapy center residential program, so chaotic,
and I couldn't. I didn't know what to do. I
was so lost. I was like, Okay, I think I'm
more codependent than I thought I was. I think I
(40:18):
have some serious issues. I know I'm in an unhealthy relationship. Yeah,
I can't stop talking to this man. And my whole
world flipped upside down and I was like I need help,
and I knew I had to go somewhere, and it
wasn't somebody telling me you should go to this places
like mom, I think I need to go somewhere. And
(40:39):
it was scary. It was a very scary decision to make.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
That takes a ton of courage. It is so much
easier to just go through the motions. And so when
you now looking back now I'm flipping.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
The interview on you.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
Now as you look back though, now you know and
so now you can help so many other people make
that choice for themselves, to choose themselves. And that's a
big thing, you know, And I think that's that's a
big part of why we're called to share.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
Yeah. Absolutely, that's why I'm doing this podcast, and that's
why You've written a book. And I'm so thrilled for you.
It's called Why Do We Stay? And Stephanie, I'm just
so thankful to have you on here to share your
story and to be so vulnerable with the messaging and
(41:32):
the execution. And it's such an easy read. You guys
like you'll love it if you pick this book up.
And where can we find you? Can we find you
on Instagram?
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Yes, I'm on all the places anywhere social Stephanie quail
dot com for tour dates and I will be doing
a little book tour, so I hopefully will be popping
into La So if you're around.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
Awesome, Yeah, I'd love to come by. Thank you hell
so much for listening to Rachel Goes Rogue. Follow us
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