September 24, 2024 • 35 mins
Just because you're a household name doesn't mean you have it all....
Celebrity coach and podcast host Whitney Uland shares her concept of celebrity energy and her tips to staying in your confidence while navigating the demands of the public spotlight.
Plus, Rachel shares why podcasting has helped her public persona after her dramatic reality TV days.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
This is Rachel gos Rogue.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome back to another episode of Rachel Goes Rogue with
your host Rachel Savannah Levis, and today we are being
joined by celebrity coach Whitney Ewland.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
I started following whitney Eland.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
After I saw some of her social media posts talking
about celebrity energy and the importance of having kind hearted
people in the entertainment industry and using their voices. Her
point of view is very interesting and it's given me
motivation to continue to step in this limelight and to
(00:49):
use this podcast to broadcast a bigger message.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
Hi Whitney, so good to meet you.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
It's so good to meet you too. Okay, So, for
the listeners who aren't familiar with.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Your content online, could you give us like a quick
rundown of your stance on celebrity and being famous and
kind of how you use or view fame as a resource.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
Yeah, so exactly. Just to your point, I just think
that fame is the resource of having people's attention, and
once you have that resource, then you can leverage it
into things that you want, missions that you care about,
things that are important to you. You can leverage it
into a career. If that's what you want, right, to
get clients, to get bookings, to get brand deals, that
(01:40):
kind of thing. But I really just am such a
believer that, you know, if we look at how Hollywood
has kind of been in the past, it was through
corporations and through organizations of you know, a television show
or a network or whatever, kind of picking people who
kind of had to go through these steps of being
chosen and being selected. And now with social media, anyone
(02:04):
can create the resource of fame, and anyone can build
a platform and then leverage that into what they want.
I just love kind of demystifying what fame is and
how to get it and just helping make it more
accessible to people that have important missions.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
On your podcast, do you talk about how there are
two different types of people that come to you to
contact you. There's the person that is seeking to develop
this fame as a resource and they're pretty much starting
from ground zero. And then there's the other type of
clientele that is coming to you who have already reached
(02:45):
a certain level of fame and they are starting to
need to resource other people to get.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
To the next level.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
And in that category, you find that some of those
people have been canceled before.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
So could you give like maybe a little bit of
background or like advice from a coaching perspective for a
client who has been canceled before.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
Totally. I'm going to actually kind of break this down similarly,
because it is the same process whether you're someone who's
been canceled or whether you're someone who just wants to
start start out. I'm sure you know you're aware of this,
is that the hard thing about being famous is Okay,
if we think about like a musician and let's say
they put out an album and it fails, that's embarrassing, right,
(03:37):
that their work fails. But once you're already in the spotlight,
it's not just your work that's being judged. It's your
life decisions. And how many of us have made life
decisions that we regret, like I have right, Like I
feel like I self sabotaged my way into ruining my marriage,
if I'm completely honest. And once you have this resource
(03:58):
of fame, it makes you. It puts all of that
on display. And so I think that the main thing
that happens when someone becomes famous is that people stop
thinking of you like a real person. They stop thinking
of you as someone who's experiencing an immense pressure. My
following started to grow as I was in the middle
(04:21):
of a divorce that again I kind of self sabotage
my way into And even though that's not what my
work is about, the fact that I was in the
spotlight while that was happening was so much pressure. It's
really hard on your nervous system. Our brains are not
wired to be seen by massive amounts of people. Right
if you were to close or eze and picture a
(04:41):
million people, you literally cannot write. Our brains are only
wired to understand our in life and in person communities.
And suddenly, when you're on the spotlight and millions of
people are seeing you and millions of people are making
judgments about what you're doing and how you're acting, your
nervous system can't handle that, and so it's going to collapse.
And so this is why I'm kind of saying it's similar.
(05:02):
If you're just starting out, your brain is not wired
to be seen by a massive amounts of people. It
knows that, it subconsciously knows. Oh, if I'm in front
of millions of people and I mess up, they're going
to see that, right, they're going and so you're going
to avoid it. But for someone who's been canceled, it's
you have that pressure, and it's I see all of
the time. You know people who are at the top
of their game, people that would that we love and
(05:24):
we love their work, and they're so miserable because there's
all of this pressure now as a person, and whether
they've messed up and been canceled or not, it's just
not something that her brains are wired to be experiencing
that much exposure. So the work that I'm doing with
someone who's been canceled, it's really about building a really
solid relationship with yourself where you can forgive yourself and
(05:46):
you can be willing to be seen in a really
authentic way and be willing to be like really deeply misunderstood, right,
and like to be willing to like I mean, listen,
I made a post about Tom Holland and I just
was and it was like off the cuff, I wasn't
even thinking that much about it. Well, I did not
realize you do not want to pick a fight with
(06:07):
someone in the Marvel universe, right, And like his fans
came at me and it just shut me down, like,
even though it's not like that's not the equivalent of
being canceled at all. I'm just using that as an
example because our we're not wired to receive that much hate.
And so the work that I'm doing is helping people
get back into their bodies and into their nervous system
and really feel safe with themselves, because if you don't,
(06:30):
then their body moves into that trauma response where they
literally cannot function. And when they oftentimes what people will
do is they move into the fight response and then
they fight back with people and that just kind of
like devolves and makes it worse. And from that place,
we're literally not able to function when we're in this
like trauma response and in this survival response. And so
the work I do is just to help people come
(06:51):
back to their like to themselves and to their logical
thinking and to their creative thinking. And that's when and
being willing to just and their mistakes and take ownership
and then get back on the horse again. So it's
really interesting and rewarding work.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
I think with a podcast too, there is that ability
to be creative with the content that you're putting out there,
and what you create is a reflection of who you
are as a person. And the reason why I chose
to do a podcast and not go back to the
show is because it allowed for me to have more
power and control of my narrative, which really there was
(07:34):
a point there where I really felt so powerless and
like I felt like I did everything wrong and it
just was not going my way or.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
My way was not working for me anymore.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
And so with some time and some self reflection and
just finding my voice again and believing in myself and
finding my own power with in expressing myself, I felt
confident starting this podcast.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
What are your credentials or how does somebody become a
celebrity coach?
Speaker 4 (08:13):
I started as an actor, a really struggling actor, and
I was just very much the epitome of talent, but
could not get work like I you know, even looking
back now, I'll look at my singing and my dancing
and my acting, and I'm like, that is a talented girl.
But when I walked into the audition room, I just
shut down. I was so afraid of being seen, and
(08:34):
I was so afraid of what people would think of me.
I was afraid of failing, and so I was subconsciously
blocking myself. Then I found this work, and I noticed
that as I started to work on myself, my auditions
got better, I started to like land more roles. Things
just really started to pop off, and so I just
kind of had this nudge in twenty nineteen to get
(08:54):
certified as a coach, and it really was something that
just consumed all of my Like it was like I
can't stop thinking about this, like I love this so much.
And then you know, in twenty twenty, that's when my
agent got for a load and my development deal got
crashed and my oh no, like all of the funding
for my movie dropped out, but suddenly everyone needed a
life coach, and so it kind of like took off
(09:17):
at the same time. And then during that time is
when I signed my first celebrity client, and I just
kind of like learned through like a lot of my
work has been like learning on the job and getting
like seeing a behind the scenes you know, take of
what it what it's like to be famous. So it's
like to be a celebrity, and but it's also you know,
it's just human behavior, which is I'm just I'm just
(09:40):
a nerd. About it and just I'm always like reading
about it and learning and a student of it myself.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Me too, Me too. I am fascinated by human behavior.
So I wanted to ask you.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
We all know that with the help of social media
it is a lot easier to become famous than it
used to be.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
How does one and tap into their celebrity energy?
Speaker 4 (10:03):
Yeah, so a good question just for any like listeners
that you know aren't familiar with this term. So celebrity energy,
it's basically the term I made up for the factor.
So it's that energy that you tap into. And you know,
I was raised worm and didn't watch a lot of television.
I don't really know. Like I was even dming you
before this. I was like, I don't really watch TV,
Like I don't really know what's going on. I don't
know if we need, you know whatever. I just kind
(10:25):
of feel like a little alien that I never know
what's going on. But whenever I'm in like erewhon and
there's a celebrity there, I know that there're a celebrity.
It's like you know that someone is someone. They just
have this magnetism that they carry with them. And there's
this great story by Marilyn Monroe's photographer that basically, the
photographer said that they were walking in New York City
(10:46):
and Marilyn loved to be in New York because no
one ever recognized her the way that they did in Hollywood,
and so she could kind of just sneak sneak under
the radar. And then one day she turned to the
photographer and said, do you want to watch people become her?
And they said, I didn't know what to expect. And
then her energy shifted and all of a sudden, they said, stars,
cars were stopping, people were stopping her on the street
(11:08):
and asked and saying, there's Marilyn Monroe. So it was
this shift that she made. And as I've studied, you know,
the different like you know, even like Lady Gaga art
is like you can watch how their auras grow and
change in the power that they have, and so celebrity
energy this is it factor I that's one hundred percent
what I was missing when I was when I was
(11:29):
acting in New York. And it was but it's what
happens when you feel unafraid of being seen by massive
amounts of people for who you authentically are. So there's
you know, and there's kind of this idea that people
in Hollywood are all narcissists, simple of themselves and whatever,
and that kind of is true because those people really
aren't afraid of being seen for who they authentically are, right,
(11:51):
and people who you know, I always say, people who've
done the work on themselves, they're they're so aware of
other people, and they're so aware that they know the risks,
they know the risks of being in the spotlight, and
so then they're less likely to go after fame. So anyway,
that was a little of a tangent. But the reason
that I'm saying this is because if you want to
(12:12):
pop off on social media, it's about feeling safe being
seen by massive amounts of people. Right. Remember, like our
brains don't understand what a million people look like, but
you could have a video pop off that all of
a sudden has a million eyeballs on you, and our
capacity isn't always able to handle that. So something that
I see a lot with clients when they're first starting out,
(12:33):
and sometimes they come to me as they're like, I
was making content, but then I had a viral video
and then I just completely shut down and I deleted
the account or I quit reading the comments or whatever,
because again, our nervous systems just aren't meant to handle
that mental load of having that many people looking at
us and perceiving us and having thoughts. So the work
(12:53):
really is, I always like to say, creating thing the
resource of people's attention. It's really like a spiritual journey
because it's about making peace with yourself, and it's about
making peace with letting people see who you are authentically
in your flaws, in your imperfections, and also in your power.
I think a lot of us are afraid of people
seeing us, you know, confident or like women are afraid
(13:16):
of that, afraid of being seen. And you know, I
was just coaching my clients before this about imposter syndrome
and people, you know, are afraid of They're like, I
have this amazing mission and this amazing thing that I
wanted to share with the world, but who am I
to Who am I to put this out in the world?
And I'm like, no, like you have to put this
out in the world. And so it's really about kind
(13:36):
of embodying and stepping into like that celebrity version of yourself,
and that's what ends up creating that and like it
really does help you settle into that in your nervous
system as well.
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If you watch Daunsi with the Stars.
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I can say this and Karina will probably say the
same thing.
Speaker 5 (14:56):
I don't think that we had great dancing chemistry.
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You need to be listening to sex Light and spray tend.
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My partner Ardam, he was so intense that made me
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No, she was she did.
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She did super ankles warm. Get the behind the scenes
of what goes down on and off the dance floor.
Dancing with the Stars breeds body image issues for women.
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Injuries, my phone rings, Hey Christian, Hey so business.
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Fleeing honestly got to the player. I'm like, I'm just
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It was real bad insecurity on the show.
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It was like everyone was talking about my weight and
it only affected my confidence so much for five years.
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To come and betrayals because of that one betrayal.
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(17:06):
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Speaker 2 (17:16):
I'm thinking back to your intro for your podcast, and
just like your simple statement saying there needs to be
more good hearted people in the entertainment industry and in
a world full of narcissists, we have a need for it,
like there's a duty for it in a way totally.
(17:36):
And I think that is so helpful to reframe it
like that because and I think it's relatable too, even
for the people that don't want fame, if for the
people that are taking leadership positions in their whatever workforce
they're in, or if they're required to step on stage
for a certain presentation and they feel like like that
(17:59):
in pop syndrome, or they feel like they're not worthy
enough to be talking about this so publicly.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
I think if you relate.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
To any of those things, I highly recommend you heading
over to Whitney Elan's podcast because the way she reframes
it it definitely helps break down those barriers so that
you feel more confident in your mission.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
Thank you. I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
In your opinion, how can people achieve fame in a
healthy way?
Speaker 4 (18:31):
Hm, that's a good question. So I'm just such a
believer that, you know, we really do need to build
that foundation mentally to in order to hold that many
people's opinions. And you know, I say, like, fame can
really create a quantum leap where it's just like all
(18:51):
of a sudden, everyone's eyeballs are on your every you know, everything,
and everything changes. People start treating you differently, you start
making a different amount of money, You get haters, you
get people that are obsessed with you, you get like it
just everything blows up so fast, yes, and can blow
up so fast. Right. I like to think about your
brain as it's like the roots of a plant, and
(19:13):
if they're not healthy, then the plant is never going
to be healthy. And of course you can't you're never
really going to understand it until you're in that spotlight.
But I think also so many people when they're creating thing,
they also kind of expect that quantumly. They expect that
just like zero to one hundred, where for most people
it kind of does happen incrementally, right right, Like you,
(19:36):
it kind of like you get to grow with it,
and you get to unless you, you know, have a
huge moment right in the spotlight, but for most people
they get to kind of incrementally grow it. So it
really is about retraining the way that you speak to yourself.
And that's really the work for some people. That might
sound easy. It's simple, but it's not easy, and especially
when you have so many voices in your head from
(19:59):
it or not even your head, literally voices online saying
unlive yourself.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Yeah, how do you deal how do you deal with
the haters like that?
Speaker 4 (20:08):
Yeah? So, and it really does. I mean, listen, you've
got a baptism by fire in this, I'm sure. But
like in the theoretical world, it's building that foundation ahead
of time, so that and in these little moments of
practice of like oh I messed up and I did
this embarrassing thing, and giving yourself the compassion for that
(20:29):
and even and really it comes down to being willing
to be misunderstood. So again, the ideal way is that
you do this as you go. You're building this foundation
if you want to have be a creator in the spotlight.
But if it's if it doesn't happen, then we do
some like subconscious rewiring to get your nervous and to
feel safe again. And it really is like I just
(20:52):
I don't know, like I think for me, because I'm
not a narcissist and I do have feelings and I
am empathetic. I don't think that me and comm are
ever not going to bother me. Some people say that
you get to a point that you do. I'm just
like really sensitive though, like I'm like hyper sensitive. I'm
a highly what are they call it a highly sensitive person?
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Hyper sensitive?
Speaker 4 (21:15):
Yeah, just like it's like everything's going to hurt my
feelings constantly. So for me, it's I don't think I'm
ever going to get to a point where I'm just like, oh,
I don't care. But the work is like every time
it comes up and I have a reaction. Again, remember
your body literally goes into the same response as if
someone is right there screaming at you, right, And so
it's about holding space. And I think a lot of
(21:36):
the time what can get really tricky with celebrity, with
fame is like, especially if you've been canceled, is that
there's people that are like, I mean, the voices are
so loud, right, and it's well you deserve this. You
need to be held accountable if you want to be
in the spotlight. This is the price that you have
to pay. You have it so good. There are people
working as janitors that would love to have you know, X,
(21:56):
Y and Z, and all of those opinions make us
invalidate ourselves. And what ends up happening is again, when
you go into a trauma response, your body has like
a very real reaction, right. It's like the adrenaline increases,
your cortisol levels rise. Your brain also knows that you're
physically safe, and it kind of knows, so then it
just kind of creates this experience where your body is
(22:18):
having a very real response, your mind is telling it
that that response is invalid, and it creates this like
internal war zone in your body where these emotions can't process.
And that's when then we say stuck. That's when. And
I really think that that's why so many stars turn
to maladaptive behaviors right over drinking to drugs, to alcohol.
I mean I even think and or I will say
(22:40):
so Adele just announced that she is taking a hiatus
and she's like it could be up to fifteen years.
She's like, this is indefinite. I don't know if or
when I'll ever come back. And my thought is she's
been very public about being like I don't like being famous.
My thought with her, and I've never worked with her,
but is that she loves singing, she loves performing, but
(23:01):
she doesn't like the fame aspect, and so she's kind
of like pushing through it, right, She's kind of like,
I'm gonna do this anyway. And to me, that's kind
of the equivalent of like fake it till you make
it right, where it's like, well, I'll just push through,
and I don't think, like I actually tell my clients,
I'm like, I actually don't think you should be confident.
Like confidence is usually just pushing through, pushing past your fear.
(23:22):
But when you're a creative, you're selling your consciousness and
people are literally I mean, there's that joke right that
you're like selling your soul, but it's like you you
actually are, Like people are actually buying your consciousness.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Oh yeah, I've never heard it said that way. You're
selling your consciousness.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
Yeah, And it's like can be such a positive thing,
such a positive thing, It's like that's the most valuable
thing in the whole world right in the whole universe.
Is a person is a person's soul, is a person's consciousness.
And yet if that's what has to be on display,
and meanwhile you're pushing past and you're like, I hate this,
this is scary, this is dangerous. You're eventually gonna just
(24:00):
be like, I can't do this anymore, right, like if
you push past it, And that's where like I think
Adele is probably just like I literally can't do this anymore.
Like it's you know, it's kind of like when you
touch a hot stove a kid. Like if a kid
touches a hot stove, they're like, oh, I don't want
to do that again. That hurts, and it's like, you know,
I assume that with Adele, it's like she's done it
so many times and it just hurts now, and so
now she's like, I just want to remove myself from
(24:22):
the situation.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
With the extreme level of fame, like we're talking Jojo
Seawaw status, I could see how you either have to
like adapt in a way that makes sense for you.
So for like a Jojo Sewaw case, I feel like
this is a child's star that has been exposed to
the extreme, and she plays into it because she knows
(24:59):
it's a job and she's been trained this way through
her dance career and dance moms and it's been normalized
to her and she's someone who can handle it. But
then the outside criticism sees her. I don't know her
fashion and some of the stuff that she posts, and
(25:19):
she does get a lot of criticism for it, but
she just pushes on through like it does. It seems
like it doesn't FaZe her.
Speaker 4 (25:27):
I totally agree, and I mean she's also I don't like,
I'll say I've not worked with her. I don't know,
but she is such an interesting case also because she did,
to your point, grow up in the spotlight. And I
also think that adds a different layer when you know,
Hollywood loves talk about like, oh, only nefo babies make
it or whatever. And I do think that there's something
to be said for being taught from a young age
(25:49):
this is a valid career path, this is a safe
thing for you. This is just a part of it.
Like that does actually kind of teach your nervous system
that it is safe for you to be like misunderstood.
I don't know. I mean we've only seen her childhood
experience through Dance Moms, but it will be interesting to
see how she continues to grow, because I do think
to your point, it does kind of seem like she's
(26:10):
just kind of pushing past it. And I don't I mean,
I don't know. I don't want to speak for her,
but I don't think that we're really wired to continually
do that, and I think it would get tired and
old and unfulfilling unless it literally is just a job.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
For her, right.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Yeah, So it's a lot of the framing because I
just watched this documentary by Demi Lovado and she's interviewing
several child stars and a lot of them like Raven
from that so Raven, she talks about how she knew
this was a job, like it was a job and
(26:46):
it was a way to get money and that kind
of structure. Really, I mean, you go about your career
in a different way.
Speaker 4 (26:57):
Totally, and that can be really tricky. And that's really
where to get really really freaking vulnerable, right, Like, we
make bad decisions when we're in vulnerable places and when
there's a power dynamic and when there's any kind of
promise of what we want and any promise that that
we and again, it's really sneaky. It's not like someone
is coming in front of you and being like, do
(27:17):
you want to throw away your life in exchange for
a career. It's like it's not like, it's not like dry.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
Yeah, it's not like what's her name from The Little Mermaid?
Speaker 4 (27:29):
Ursula?
Speaker 6 (27:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Yeah. Ursula is like writing up a contract for you
to sign your life away and blood, knowing full full
well that you're like selling your soul over and you're
in this bounded contract where you can't have a voice
anymore literally.
Speaker 4 (27:46):
Literally yeah, no exactly. And that's the thing is, it's
you fall for it when you're vulnerable, and you're vulnerable
because you love something so much, you know that it's
what you're meant to do, you think that it's an
for me. I'll be fully transparent. I wanted to be
famous because I subconsciously just wanted to be accepted by
my dad, like one hundred percent. My dad did not
(28:07):
and he's passed away, so I feel like I can
say this too. He didn't give me the attention that
I that I needed as a child to help with
my development, and so I literally had a developmental delay
of trying to get attention and a lot of I
think a lot of women turn to sex for that,
and like turn to men and dating, and for me,
I turned to fame instead, and I turned to like
trying to get attention in that way. And so it
(28:30):
was a really it was an unhealed part of me
that again just made me really vulnerable. And I think
there's some truth to that for a lot of people
in Hollywood, And.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
I would say so, I think that that may be
a common theme of maybe some sort of neglect in
your childhood, and maybe it doesn't even present itself as neglect,
but the way that it impacts you, you feel like
you need to start seeking so sort of validation that
(29:01):
you even exist.
Speaker 4 (29:03):
One hundred percent. And to your point, it's it can
be really sneaky, right. My dad was he did not
abuse me, but he emotionally was not there for me, right,
and he emotionally could not support me in the ways
that I needed to be seen. And so that's also
why again it gets a little sneaky sometimes because it's like,
and again I'm not trying to compare myself to terrible
(29:24):
things that have happened to other people, but like if
a parent had like physically assaulted their child, everyone in
the world would say that's wrong, and youss are pealing
from that. But when it's these little things, this little neglect,
this little abandonment, these moments that we needed childhood protection
and we didn't receive them, they kind of slip under
(29:45):
the surface. And that's where like, at least you know,
for me, my all my maladaptive behaviors have been like
I'm going to have an amazing career where no one
on the outside is going to seem that and be like, oh,
she's self sabotaging and she's ruining her life.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Yeah, right, And like career wise, that is something in
our culture that gets even more like positive reassurance, Like
if you're a workaholic, it's it's less likely to be.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
A problem in other people's eyes, exactly.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
And I think especially there's also this like and I'm
here for it, right, Like, I mean, it wasn't until
what nineteen eighty four that women could even like get
a business loan, So it's like, we do need some
equity and some equality for women in the workplace. But
I do also think that then there's also this like
women feminism movement. That then it's like it kind of
(30:38):
sneaks under with that too, because we're like, no, I'm
just like a boss woman. I'm like fighting the patriarchy
by being a successful woman. And really it's like, yeah,
and I'm doing this because like I don't think that
I And here's another thing I guess I'll just say
is that when you do this work of healing a
lot of the time on the other side of it,
one of two things will happen. Is one is people
(31:00):
heal and they realize I don't need to be famous,
or they heal and they realize, oh, I definitely need
to be famous and I need to like help people,
and it becomes and so you still and I feel
like that's kind of where what the shift has been
for me, where now it's like, yeah, no, I do
need to do this because I have this mission and
I know I can help people. But it's a job now,
right Whereas to your point, it's like it wasn't before
(31:22):
and I didn't realize that because that was all I knew.
And now it's like, no, this is a job and
this is like the mission and there's days that this
but this is work and so you show up because
this is your job, not because there's any kind of
like I do think that I mean, knock all would right,
We'll see, like my therapist, I guess can let you
know whether or not what side of the spectrum we're
on with this. But I do think that I've healed
(31:43):
that part of me that needed the validation, and the
desire for fame is still there, but it's just in
a completely different way.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
I love that you are trauma informed, and so I'm
sure when you work with clients you are clearly so
well aware of like the underlying issues that lead to
wanting fame. As a resource, does it ever turn out
for you working with clients that they're like, oh, no,
(32:13):
I don't need to be famous, and then they terminate you.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
Totally yeah, and I'm like, go off, No. But I
love working with people through transition because there's such a
difference between getting to the place I think a lot
of people get to, like an adele moment where there's
like I can't do this anymore. But when I'm working
with someone and they come to this, I it's this empowered,
embodied I am letting this go and I'm ready to
move on. To the next thing, and that's such a
(32:39):
different energy, and that's such a like more empowered place
to be in. So when I'm working with people and
they do decide that they want to pivot, it's because
there's something else that's even more exciting to them, that
is lighting them up that they're moving towards instead of
just like I quit.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Okay, last question, what do you see as a few
future of celebrity culture in the age of social media
and digital content creation?
Speaker 4 (33:06):
Great question. I think that we you know, we're in
this world now where people want a three sixty view
of celebrities, right that we it's not enough. And this
is why cancel culture is so prevalent, is because now
again we're seeing all of these little things. And I
do think cancel culture in general is going to It's
already shifted a lot in the last couple of years,
(33:27):
but I think that we're going audiences are going to
have to become more empathetic to the fact that the
people in the spotlight make mistakes, right, And I think
that as celebrities also learn how to own their mistakes
and how to move through it, then that will get
that will change as well. But yeah, I do think
that we want I think that there's a call for
authenticity now. Like I think that we're very quick too,
(33:50):
you know, even with like as soon as as soon
as audiences feel like someone is out of touch, that's
when they're like, get this person out of here, right,
And so I think that we really are there is
a call. I was just watching. I wish I had
her handle because I would give her a shout out.
But it was a creator who I've never seen before,
and her whole platform is about foraging in the woods
(34:12):
and she I believe she lives in like Ohio or
something like. She's a black woman scientist who has this
like random platform. And I'm like, I think that's where
celebrity is going. Is where we have these these really interesting,
really well informed, really intelligent people and we're putting and
if those people that have, you know, something of value
(34:35):
to share are willing to be seen and share themselves,
then I think that that's I think that's what audiences
are the most excited about right now.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
So good Whitney, thank you so much for coming on
my podcast and answering all of my questions. Head over
to Whitney's podcast it's called How to Be Famous.
Speaker 4 (34:55):
Yep, how to Be Famous with the newl and.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Thank you so much for listening to Rachel Gos Rogue.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Follow us on Instagram and TikTok for exclusive video content
at Rachel Ghos Rogue Podcast
This is Rachel gos Rogue.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome back to another episode of Rachel Goes Rogue with
your host Rachel Savannah Levis, and today we are being
joined by celebrity coach Whitney Ewland.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
I started following whitney Eland.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
After I saw some of her social media posts talking
about celebrity energy and the importance of having kind hearted
people in the entertainment industry and using their voices. Her
point of view is very interesting and it's given me
motivation to continue to step in this limelight and to
(00:49):
use this podcast to broadcast a bigger message.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
Hi Whitney, so good to meet you.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
It's so good to meet you too. Okay, So, for
the listeners who aren't familiar with.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Your content online, could you give us like a quick
rundown of your stance on celebrity and being famous and
kind of how you use or view fame as a resource.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
Yeah, so exactly. Just to your point, I just think
that fame is the resource of having people's attention, and
once you have that resource, then you can leverage it
into things that you want, missions that you care about,
things that are important to you. You can leverage it
into a career. If that's what you want, right, to
get clients, to get bookings, to get brand deals, that
(01:40):
kind of thing. But I really just am such a
believer that, you know, if we look at how Hollywood
has kind of been in the past, it was through
corporations and through organizations of you know, a television show
or a network or whatever, kind of picking people who
kind of had to go through these steps of being
chosen and being selected. And now with social media, anyone
(02:04):
can create the resource of fame, and anyone can build
a platform and then leverage that into what they want.
I just love kind of demystifying what fame is and
how to get it and just helping make it more
accessible to people that have important missions.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
On your podcast, do you talk about how there are
two different types of people that come to you to
contact you. There's the person that is seeking to develop
this fame as a resource and they're pretty much starting
from ground zero. And then there's the other type of
clientele that is coming to you who have already reached
(02:45):
a certain level of fame and they are starting to
need to resource other people to get.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
To the next level.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
And in that category, you find that some of those
people have been canceled before.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
So could you give like maybe a little bit of
background or like advice from a coaching perspective for a
client who has been canceled before.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
Totally. I'm going to actually kind of break this down similarly,
because it is the same process whether you're someone who's
been canceled or whether you're someone who just wants to
start start out. I'm sure you know you're aware of this,
is that the hard thing about being famous is Okay,
if we think about like a musician and let's say
they put out an album and it fails, that's embarrassing, right,
(03:37):
that their work fails. But once you're already in the spotlight,
it's not just your work that's being judged. It's your
life decisions. And how many of us have made life
decisions that we regret, like I have right, Like I
feel like I self sabotaged my way into ruining my marriage,
if I'm completely honest. And once you have this resource
(03:58):
of fame, it makes you. It puts all of that
on display. And so I think that the main thing
that happens when someone becomes famous is that people stop
thinking of you like a real person. They stop thinking
of you as someone who's experiencing an immense pressure. My
following started to grow as I was in the middle
(04:21):
of a divorce that again I kind of self sabotage
my way into And even though that's not what my
work is about, the fact that I was in the
spotlight while that was happening was so much pressure. It's
really hard on your nervous system. Our brains are not
wired to be seen by massive amounts of people. Right
if you were to close or eze and picture a
(04:41):
million people, you literally cannot write. Our brains are only
wired to understand our in life and in person communities.
And suddenly, when you're on the spotlight and millions of
people are seeing you and millions of people are making
judgments about what you're doing and how you're acting, your
nervous system can't handle that, and so it's going to collapse.
And so this is why I'm kind of saying it's similar.
(05:02):
If you're just starting out, your brain is not wired
to be seen by a massive amounts of people. It
knows that, it subconsciously knows. Oh, if I'm in front
of millions of people and I mess up, they're going
to see that, right, they're going and so you're going
to avoid it. But for someone who's been canceled, it's
you have that pressure, and it's I see all of
the time. You know people who are at the top
of their game, people that would that we love and
(05:24):
we love their work, and they're so miserable because there's
all of this pressure now as a person, and whether
they've messed up and been canceled or not, it's just
not something that her brains are wired to be experiencing
that much exposure. So the work that I'm doing with
someone who's been canceled, it's really about building a really
solid relationship with yourself where you can forgive yourself and
(05:46):
you can be willing to be seen in a really
authentic way and be willing to be like really deeply misunderstood, right,
and like to be willing to like I mean, listen,
I made a post about Tom Holland and I just
was and it was like off the cuff, I wasn't
even thinking that much about it. Well, I did not
realize you do not want to pick a fight with
(06:07):
someone in the Marvel universe, right, And like his fans
came at me and it just shut me down, like,
even though it's not like that's not the equivalent of
being canceled at all. I'm just using that as an
example because our we're not wired to receive that much hate.
And so the work that I'm doing is helping people
get back into their bodies and into their nervous system
and really feel safe with themselves, because if you don't,
(06:30):
then their body moves into that trauma response where they
literally cannot function. And when they oftentimes what people will
do is they move into the fight response and then
they fight back with people and that just kind of
like devolves and makes it worse. And from that place,
we're literally not able to function when we're in this
like trauma response and in this survival response. And so
the work I do is just to help people come
(06:51):
back to their like to themselves and to their logical
thinking and to their creative thinking. And that's when and
being willing to just and their mistakes and take ownership
and then get back on the horse again. So it's
really interesting and rewarding work.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
I think with a podcast too, there is that ability
to be creative with the content that you're putting out there,
and what you create is a reflection of who you
are as a person. And the reason why I chose
to do a podcast and not go back to the
show is because it allowed for me to have more
power and control of my narrative, which really there was
(07:34):
a point there where I really felt so powerless and
like I felt like I did everything wrong and it
just was not going my way or.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
My way was not working for me anymore.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
And so with some time and some self reflection and
just finding my voice again and believing in myself and
finding my own power with in expressing myself, I felt
confident starting this podcast.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
What are your credentials or how does somebody become a
celebrity coach?
Speaker 4 (08:13):
I started as an actor, a really struggling actor, and
I was just very much the epitome of talent, but
could not get work like I you know, even looking
back now, I'll look at my singing and my dancing
and my acting, and I'm like, that is a talented girl.
But when I walked into the audition room, I just
shut down. I was so afraid of being seen, and
(08:34):
I was so afraid of what people would think of me.
I was afraid of failing, and so I was subconsciously
blocking myself. Then I found this work, and I noticed
that as I started to work on myself, my auditions
got better, I started to like land more roles. Things
just really started to pop off, and so I just
kind of had this nudge in twenty nineteen to get
(08:54):
certified as a coach, and it really was something that
just consumed all of my Like it was like I
can't stop thinking about this, like I love this so much.
And then you know, in twenty twenty, that's when my
agent got for a load and my development deal got
crashed and my oh no, like all of the funding
for my movie dropped out, but suddenly everyone needed a
life coach, and so it kind of like took off
(09:17):
at the same time. And then during that time is
when I signed my first celebrity client, and I just
kind of like learned through like a lot of my
work has been like learning on the job and getting
like seeing a behind the scenes you know, take of
what it what it's like to be famous. So it's
like to be a celebrity, and but it's also you know,
it's just human behavior, which is I'm just I'm just
(09:40):
a nerd. About it and just I'm always like reading
about it and learning and a student of it myself.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Me too, Me too. I am fascinated by human behavior.
So I wanted to ask you.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
We all know that with the help of social media
it is a lot easier to become famous than it
used to be.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
How does one and tap into their celebrity energy?
Speaker 4 (10:03):
Yeah, so a good question just for any like listeners
that you know aren't familiar with this term. So celebrity energy,
it's basically the term I made up for the factor.
So it's that energy that you tap into. And you know,
I was raised worm and didn't watch a lot of television.
I don't really know. Like I was even dming you
before this. I was like, I don't really watch TV,
Like I don't really know what's going on. I don't
know if we need, you know whatever. I just kind
(10:25):
of feel like a little alien that I never know
what's going on. But whenever I'm in like erewhon and
there's a celebrity there, I know that there're a celebrity.
It's like you know that someone is someone. They just
have this magnetism that they carry with them. And there's
this great story by Marilyn Monroe's photographer that basically, the
photographer said that they were walking in New York City
(10:46):
and Marilyn loved to be in New York because no
one ever recognized her the way that they did in Hollywood,
and so she could kind of just sneak sneak under
the radar. And then one day she turned to the
photographer and said, do you want to watch people become her?
And they said, I didn't know what to expect. And
then her energy shifted and all of a sudden, they said, stars,
cars were stopping, people were stopping her on the street
(11:08):
and asked and saying, there's Marilyn Monroe. So it was
this shift that she made. And as I've studied, you know,
the different like you know, even like Lady Gaga art
is like you can watch how their auras grow and
change in the power that they have, and so celebrity
energy this is it factor I that's one hundred percent
what I was missing when I was when I was
(11:29):
acting in New York. And it was but it's what
happens when you feel unafraid of being seen by massive
amounts of people for who you authentically are. So there's
you know, and there's kind of this idea that people
in Hollywood are all narcissists, simple of themselves and whatever,
and that kind of is true because those people really
aren't afraid of being seen for who they authentically are, right,
(11:51):
and people who you know, I always say, people who've
done the work on themselves, they're they're so aware of
other people, and they're so aware that they know the risks,
they know the risks of being in the spotlight, and
so then they're less likely to go after fame. So anyway,
that was a little of a tangent. But the reason
that I'm saying this is because if you want to
(12:12):
pop off on social media, it's about feeling safe being
seen by massive amounts of people. Right. Remember, like our
brains don't understand what a million people look like, but
you could have a video pop off that all of
a sudden has a million eyeballs on you, and our
capacity isn't always able to handle that. So something that
I see a lot with clients when they're first starting out,
(12:33):
and sometimes they come to me as they're like, I
was making content, but then I had a viral video
and then I just completely shut down and I deleted
the account or I quit reading the comments or whatever,
because again, our nervous systems just aren't meant to handle
that mental load of having that many people looking at
us and perceiving us and having thoughts. So the work
(12:53):
really is, I always like to say, creating thing the
resource of people's attention. It's really like a spiritual journey
because it's about making peace with yourself, and it's about
making peace with letting people see who you are authentically
in your flaws, in your imperfections, and also in your power.
I think a lot of us are afraid of people
seeing us, you know, confident or like women are afraid
(13:16):
of that, afraid of being seen. And you know, I
was just coaching my clients before this about imposter syndrome
and people, you know, are afraid of They're like, I
have this amazing mission and this amazing thing that I
wanted to share with the world, but who am I
to Who am I to put this out in the world?
And I'm like, no, like you have to put this
out in the world. And so it's really about kind
(13:36):
of embodying and stepping into like that celebrity version of yourself,
and that's what ends up creating that and like it
really does help you settle into that in your nervous
system as well.
Speaker 5 (13:51):
Jenny Garth, Jana Kramer, Amy Roeboch, and TJ. Holmes bring
you I Do Part two. I want of a kind
experiment in podcasting to help you fine love again. If
you din't get it right the first time, it's time
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Speaker 6 (14:07):
Hey, I'm Jana Kramer. As they say, those that cannot
do teach. Actually, I think I finally got it right.
So take the failures I've had the second or even
third whatever, maybe the fourth time around.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
I'm Jenny Garth. Twenty nine years ago, Kelly Taylor said
these words, I choose me. She made her choice. She
chose herself when it comes to love, choose you first.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
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Speaker 7 (14:33):
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find lasting love. Finally, we want.
Speaker 6 (14:43):
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Speaker 3 (14:52):
If you watch Daunsi with the Stars.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
I can say this and Karina will probably say the
same thing.
Speaker 5 (14:56):
I don't think that we had great dancing chemistry.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
You need to be listening to sex Light and spray tend.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
My partner Ardam, he was so intense that made me
really nervous with cerrih.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
But Editor didn't wear a lot of clothes.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
No, she was she did.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
She did super ankles warm. Get the behind the scenes
of what goes down on and off the dance floor.
Dancing with the Stars breeds body image issues for women.
The thinner you are, the more attention you end up
getting on that show.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Injuries, my phone rings, Hey Christian, Hey so business.
Speaker 4 (15:32):
Yeah, I saw you dancing with distusts. I saw what
happened to your arm, and I have the perfect guy
to fix it.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Fleeing honestly got to the player. I'm like, I'm just
trying to survive. I'm just trying to like make it
out out of this season. Ego, she wanted to kill me.
It was real bad insecurity on the show.
Speaker 4 (15:47):
It was like everyone was talking about my weight and
it only affected my confidence so much for five years.
Speaker 6 (15:53):
To come and betrayals because of that one betrayal.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
I knew this is probably my last season. Listen to
Sex Lies and Spray Sauds with Cheryl Burke. New episodes
every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. My name is Cheryl Burke,
and I approve this message.
Speaker 8 (16:09):
Hey everyone, Amy Robach here along with TJ Holmes, and
we have a very exciting announcement to make to all
of you.
Speaker 7 (16:16):
We are expanding. We are now going to be coming
to you Monday through Friday for a new part of
our Amy and TJ franchise, if you will, the Morning Run.
We're going to help listeners navigate the busy news cycle
and the historic political season that the country is facing.
And we're going to do this now each and every day.
Speaker 8 (16:37):
Wow, we have a news franchise now, I like the
way you put that.
Speaker 4 (16:40):
We're going to be covering all the latest news headlines
for all of you.
Speaker 8 (16:43):
We'll have entertainment updates, and we'll even give some perspective
on the current events that are happening right now. And this,
by the way, is in addition to our already established
bi weekly podcasts that we hope you guys are tuning
into as well, with more in depth conversations and interviews,
So we're gonna be with you Monday through Friday with
Morning Run. Listen to Morning Run on the iHeartRadio app,
(17:06):
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
I'm thinking back to your intro for your podcast, and
just like your simple statement saying there needs to be
more good hearted people in the entertainment industry and in
a world full of narcissists, we have a need for it,
like there's a duty for it in a way totally.
(17:36):
And I think that is so helpful to reframe it
like that because and I think it's relatable too, even
for the people that don't want fame, if for the
people that are taking leadership positions in their whatever workforce
they're in, or if they're required to step on stage
for a certain presentation and they feel like like that
(17:59):
in pop syndrome, or they feel like they're not worthy
enough to be talking about this so publicly.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
I think if you relate.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
To any of those things, I highly recommend you heading
over to Whitney Elan's podcast because the way she reframes
it it definitely helps break down those barriers so that
you feel more confident in your mission.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
Thank you. I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
In your opinion, how can people achieve fame in a
healthy way?
Speaker 4 (18:31):
Hm, that's a good question. So I'm just such a
believer that, you know, we really do need to build
that foundation mentally to in order to hold that many
people's opinions. And you know, I say, like, fame can
really create a quantum leap where it's just like all
(18:51):
of a sudden, everyone's eyeballs are on your every you know, everything,
and everything changes. People start treating you differently, you start
making a different amount of money, You get haters, you
get people that are obsessed with you, you get like it
just everything blows up so fast, yes, and can blow
up so fast. Right. I like to think about your
brain as it's like the roots of a plant, and
(19:13):
if they're not healthy, then the plant is never going
to be healthy. And of course you can't you're never
really going to understand it until you're in that spotlight.
But I think also so many people when they're creating thing,
they also kind of expect that quantumly. They expect that
just like zero to one hundred, where for most people
it kind of does happen incrementally, right right, Like you,
(19:36):
it kind of like you get to grow with it,
and you get to unless you, you know, have a
huge moment right in the spotlight, but for most people
they get to kind of incrementally grow it. So it
really is about retraining the way that you speak to yourself.
And that's really the work for some people. That might
sound easy. It's simple, but it's not easy, and especially
when you have so many voices in your head from
(19:59):
it or not even your head, literally voices online saying
unlive yourself.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Yeah, how do you deal how do you deal with
the haters like that?
Speaker 4 (20:08):
Yeah? So, and it really does. I mean, listen, you've
got a baptism by fire in this, I'm sure. But
like in the theoretical world, it's building that foundation ahead
of time, so that and in these little moments of
practice of like oh I messed up and I did
this embarrassing thing, and giving yourself the compassion for that
(20:29):
and even and really it comes down to being willing
to be misunderstood. So again, the ideal way is that
you do this as you go. You're building this foundation
if you want to have be a creator in the spotlight.
But if it's if it doesn't happen, then we do
some like subconscious rewiring to get your nervous and to
feel safe again. And it really is like I just
(20:52):
I don't know, like I think for me, because I'm
not a narcissist and I do have feelings and I
am empathetic. I don't think that me and comm are
ever not going to bother me. Some people say that
you get to a point that you do. I'm just
like really sensitive though, like I'm like hyper sensitive. I'm
a highly what are they call it a highly sensitive person?
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Hyper sensitive?
Speaker 4 (21:15):
Yeah, just like it's like everything's going to hurt my
feelings constantly. So for me, it's I don't think I'm
ever going to get to a point where I'm just like, oh,
I don't care. But the work is like every time
it comes up and I have a reaction. Again, remember
your body literally goes into the same response as if
someone is right there screaming at you, right, And so
it's about holding space. And I think a lot of
(21:36):
the time what can get really tricky with celebrity, with
fame is like, especially if you've been canceled, is that
there's people that are like, I mean, the voices are
so loud, right, and it's well you deserve this. You
need to be held accountable if you want to be
in the spotlight. This is the price that you have
to pay. You have it so good. There are people
working as janitors that would love to have you know, X,
(21:56):
Y and Z, and all of those opinions make us
invalidate ourselves. And what ends up happening is again, when
you go into a trauma response, your body has like
a very real reaction, right. It's like the adrenaline increases,
your cortisol levels rise. Your brain also knows that you're
physically safe, and it kind of knows, so then it
just kind of creates this experience where your body is
(22:18):
having a very real response, your mind is telling it
that that response is invalid, and it creates this like
internal war zone in your body where these emotions can't process.
And that's when then we say stuck. That's when. And
I really think that that's why so many stars turn
to maladaptive behaviors right over drinking to drugs, to alcohol.
I mean I even think and or I will say
(22:40):
so Adele just announced that she is taking a hiatus
and she's like it could be up to fifteen years.
She's like, this is indefinite. I don't know if or
when I'll ever come back. And my thought is she's
been very public about being like I don't like being famous.
My thought with her, and I've never worked with her,
but is that she loves singing, she loves performing, but
(23:01):
she doesn't like the fame aspect, and so she's kind
of like pushing through it, right, She's kind of like,
I'm gonna do this anyway. And to me, that's kind
of the equivalent of like fake it till you make
it right, where it's like, well, I'll just push through,
and I don't think, like I actually tell my clients,
I'm like, I actually don't think you should be confident.
Like confidence is usually just pushing through, pushing past your fear.
(23:22):
But when you're a creative, you're selling your consciousness and
people are literally I mean, there's that joke right that
you're like selling your soul, but it's like you you
actually are, Like people are actually buying your consciousness.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Oh yeah, I've never heard it said that way. You're
selling your consciousness.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
Yeah, And it's like can be such a positive thing,
such a positive thing, It's like that's the most valuable
thing in the whole world right in the whole universe.
Is a person is a person's soul, is a person's consciousness.
And yet if that's what has to be on display,
and meanwhile you're pushing past and you're like, I hate this,
this is scary, this is dangerous. You're eventually gonna just
(24:00):
be like, I can't do this anymore, right, like if
you push past it, And that's where like I think
Adele is probably just like I literally can't do this anymore.
Like it's you know, it's kind of like when you
touch a hot stove a kid. Like if a kid
touches a hot stove, they're like, oh, I don't want
to do that again. That hurts, and it's like, you know,
I assume that with Adele, it's like she's done it
so many times and it just hurts now, and so
now she's like, I just want to remove myself from
(24:22):
the situation.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
With the extreme level of fame, like we're talking Jojo
Seawaw status, I could see how you either have to
like adapt in a way that makes sense for you.
So for like a Jojo Sewaw case, I feel like
this is a child's star that has been exposed to
the extreme, and she plays into it because she knows
(24:59):
it's a job and she's been trained this way through
her dance career and dance moms and it's been normalized
to her and she's someone who can handle it. But
then the outside criticism sees her. I don't know her
fashion and some of the stuff that she posts, and
(25:19):
she does get a lot of criticism for it, but
she just pushes on through like it does. It seems
like it doesn't FaZe her.
Speaker 4 (25:27):
I totally agree, and I mean she's also I don't like,
I'll say I've not worked with her. I don't know,
but she is such an interesting case also because she did,
to your point, grow up in the spotlight. And I
also think that adds a different layer when you know,
Hollywood loves talk about like, oh, only nefo babies make
it or whatever. And I do think that there's something
to be said for being taught from a young age
(25:49):
this is a valid career path, this is a safe
thing for you. This is just a part of it.
Like that does actually kind of teach your nervous system
that it is safe for you to be like misunderstood.
I don't know. I mean we've only seen her childhood
experience through Dance Moms, but it will be interesting to
see how she continues to grow, because I do think
to your point, it does kind of seem like she's
(26:10):
just kind of pushing past it. And I don't I mean,
I don't know. I don't want to speak for her,
but I don't think that we're really wired to continually
do that, and I think it would get tired and
old and unfulfilling unless it literally is just a job.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
For her, right.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Yeah, So it's a lot of the framing because I
just watched this documentary by Demi Lovado and she's interviewing
several child stars and a lot of them like Raven
from that so Raven, she talks about how she knew
this was a job, like it was a job and
(26:46):
it was a way to get money and that kind
of structure. Really, I mean, you go about your career
in a different way.
Speaker 4 (26:57):
Totally, and that can be really tricky. And that's really
where to get really really freaking vulnerable, right, Like, we
make bad decisions when we're in vulnerable places and when
there's a power dynamic and when there's any kind of
promise of what we want and any promise that that
we and again, it's really sneaky. It's not like someone
is coming in front of you and being like, do
(27:17):
you want to throw away your life in exchange for
a career. It's like it's not like, it's not like dry.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
Yeah, it's not like what's her name from The Little Mermaid?
Speaker 4 (27:29):
Ursula?
Speaker 6 (27:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Yeah. Ursula is like writing up a contract for you
to sign your life away and blood, knowing full full
well that you're like selling your soul over and you're
in this bounded contract where you can't have a voice
anymore literally.
Speaker 4 (27:46):
Literally yeah, no exactly. And that's the thing is, it's
you fall for it when you're vulnerable, and you're vulnerable
because you love something so much, you know that it's
what you're meant to do, you think that it's an
for me. I'll be fully transparent. I wanted to be
famous because I subconsciously just wanted to be accepted by
my dad, like one hundred percent. My dad did not
(28:07):
and he's passed away, so I feel like I can
say this too. He didn't give me the attention that
I that I needed as a child to help with
my development, and so I literally had a developmental delay
of trying to get attention and a lot of I
think a lot of women turn to sex for that,
and like turn to men and dating, and for me,
I turned to fame instead, and I turned to like
trying to get attention in that way. And so it
(28:30):
was a really it was an unhealed part of me
that again just made me really vulnerable. And I think
there's some truth to that for a lot of people
in Hollywood, And.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
I would say so, I think that that may be
a common theme of maybe some sort of neglect in
your childhood, and maybe it doesn't even present itself as neglect,
but the way that it impacts you, you feel like
you need to start seeking so sort of validation that
(29:01):
you even exist.
Speaker 4 (29:03):
One hundred percent. And to your point, it's it can
be really sneaky, right. My dad was he did not
abuse me, but he emotionally was not there for me, right,
and he emotionally could not support me in the ways
that I needed to be seen. And so that's also
why again it gets a little sneaky sometimes because it's like,
and again I'm not trying to compare myself to terrible
(29:24):
things that have happened to other people, but like if
a parent had like physically assaulted their child, everyone in
the world would say that's wrong, and youss are pealing
from that. But when it's these little things, this little neglect,
this little abandonment, these moments that we needed childhood protection
and we didn't receive them, they kind of slip under
(29:45):
the surface. And that's where like, at least you know,
for me, my all my maladaptive behaviors have been like
I'm going to have an amazing career where no one
on the outside is going to seem that and be like, oh,
she's self sabotaging and she's ruining her life.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Yeah, right, And like career wise, that is something in
our culture that gets even more like positive reassurance, Like
if you're a workaholic, it's it's less likely to be.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
A problem in other people's eyes, exactly.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
And I think especially there's also this like and I'm
here for it, right, Like, I mean, it wasn't until
what nineteen eighty four that women could even like get
a business loan, So it's like, we do need some
equity and some equality for women in the workplace. But
I do also think that then there's also this like
women feminism movement. That then it's like it kind of
(30:38):
sneaks under with that too, because we're like, no, I'm
just like a boss woman. I'm like fighting the patriarchy
by being a successful woman. And really it's like, yeah,
and I'm doing this because like I don't think that
I And here's another thing I guess I'll just say
is that when you do this work of healing a
lot of the time on the other side of it,
one of two things will happen. Is one is people
(31:00):
heal and they realize I don't need to be famous,
or they heal and they realize, oh, I definitely need
to be famous and I need to like help people,
and it becomes and so you still and I feel
like that's kind of where what the shift has been
for me, where now it's like, yeah, no, I do
need to do this because I have this mission and
I know I can help people. But it's a job now,
right Whereas to your point, it's like it wasn't before
(31:22):
and I didn't realize that because that was all I knew.
And now it's like, no, this is a job and
this is like the mission and there's days that this
but this is work and so you show up because
this is your job, not because there's any kind of
like I do think that I mean, knock all would right,
We'll see, like my therapist, I guess can let you
know whether or not what side of the spectrum we're
on with this. But I do think that I've healed
(31:43):
that part of me that needed the validation, and the
desire for fame is still there, but it's just in
a completely different way.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
I love that you are trauma informed, and so I'm
sure when you work with clients you are clearly so
well aware of like the underlying issues that lead to
wanting fame. As a resource, does it ever turn out
for you working with clients that they're like, oh, no,
(32:13):
I don't need to be famous, and then they terminate you.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
Totally yeah, and I'm like, go off, No. But I
love working with people through transition because there's such a
difference between getting to the place I think a lot
of people get to, like an adele moment where there's
like I can't do this anymore. But when I'm working
with someone and they come to this, I it's this empowered,
embodied I am letting this go and I'm ready to
move on. To the next thing, and that's such a
(32:39):
different energy, and that's such a like more empowered place
to be in. So when I'm working with people and
they do decide that they want to pivot, it's because
there's something else that's even more exciting to them, that
is lighting them up that they're moving towards instead of
just like I quit.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Okay, last question, what do you see as a few
future of celebrity culture in the age of social media
and digital content creation?
Speaker 4 (33:06):
Great question. I think that we you know, we're in
this world now where people want a three sixty view
of celebrities, right that we it's not enough. And this
is why cancel culture is so prevalent, is because now
again we're seeing all of these little things. And I
do think cancel culture in general is going to It's
already shifted a lot in the last couple of years,
(33:27):
but I think that we're going audiences are going to
have to become more empathetic to the fact that the
people in the spotlight make mistakes, right, And I think
that as celebrities also learn how to own their mistakes
and how to move through it, then that will get
that will change as well. But yeah, I do think
that we want I think that there's a call for
authenticity now. Like I think that we're very quick too,
(33:50):
you know, even with like as soon as as soon
as audiences feel like someone is out of touch, that's
when they're like, get this person out of here, right,
And so I think that we really are there is
a call. I was just watching. I wish I had
her handle because I would give her a shout out.
But it was a creator who I've never seen before,
and her whole platform is about foraging in the woods
(34:12):
and she I believe she lives in like Ohio or
something like. She's a black woman scientist who has this
like random platform. And I'm like, I think that's where
celebrity is going. Is where we have these these really interesting,
really well informed, really intelligent people and we're putting and
if those people that have, you know, something of value
(34:35):
to share are willing to be seen and share themselves,
then I think that that's I think that's what audiences
are the most excited about right now.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
So good Whitney, thank you so much for coming on
my podcast and answering all of my questions. Head over
to Whitney's podcast it's called How to Be Famous.
Speaker 4 (34:55):
Yep, how to Be Famous with the newl and.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Thank you so much for listening to Rachel Gos Rogue.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Follow us on Instagram and TikTok for exclusive video content
at Rachel Ghos Rogue Podcast
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