January 6, 2026 • 25 mins
Kronkite. Rather. Now, Dokoupil. The new anchor of the CBS Evening News is off to a rough start. First day jitters are to be expected. (Still, we didn't expect them to be so evident.) But it wasn't just style, but the substance that has caught a lot of people's attention ... including Amy and T. J.’s.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey, that folks, sit is Tuesday, January sixth, and give
a brother a break. Everybody has some first day jitters
at work, and that certainly seemed to be the case
for Tony Decoppel on his first night as head of
CBS Evening News. And with that, welcome to this episode
of Amy and TJ. Rowe much anticipated this debut. Obviously
(00:25):
it was going to get a lot of eyes, and
it was going to get scrutinized. But there seems to
be a consistent at least in all the reviews and
all the writings about his first day.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Well, they actually used his own words to describe his
first day, which is, we've got a big problem already
the first day, and we already have a big problem
here at CBS.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
It's a he gave it to him.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
He actually said that on live television in the at
least the first feed, the feed that we see here
on the East Coast, it was all corrected for leater feeds,
which is very typical and standard.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
He said it live.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
But he said it live, and there was no taking
it back. And yeah, when things got a little funky
technical technically speaking, he called it out and said, we've
got first day, I already got big problems here at CBS.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Who Yes, that was the headline and.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
That was a mistake. And we can say that based
on the industry and all the teachings and the decades
we have in it. We are going to get into
this now in roles. We have to be very careful
because we don't know this guy and we certainly give
him whatever benefit of the doubt that he is certainly capable.
So please, folks understand, all we are doing is giving
(01:33):
you our thoughts about what we saw and what is
Isn't it fair to say this is CBS even news
is the lowest rated, but maybe the most respected. I mean,
given the history you talk about Cronkite and Burrow and
Rather and this was isn't this the most important seat
(01:54):
even though the ratings haven't shown that over the years recent.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Years, Yes, and you know what a lot of people
why not realize that?
Speaker 2 (02:01):
But within the journalism industry, so maybe those of us
who have worked and worked in network news, CBS was
the gold standard for journalism excellence and really what you
aimed for. And in recent years, yes, when it comes
to ratings, they have struggled and they have been the
also ran, and they have been not as regarded, maybe publicly,
(02:25):
but within the industry. No matter what the ratings were,
you knew you could look to CBS for doing that
hard hitting investigative journalism a last sixty Minutes, even these
really interesting in depth pieces on sixty on a Sunday sorry,
CBS Sunday Mornings. They just have these brands that people
knew they could trust for the most accurate, fullest picture possible.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
And I'm just yes to all that. Sixty Minutes is
still holding on to that. CBS Sunday Mornings is still
holding on to that. This seat, for whatever reason happened,
hasn't been able to And it's not just a matter
of ratings, we should say. I guess moves they've made
over the years have kind of chipped away, And to
have so many people in and out of that seat
(03:11):
doesn't help either. But for me, you tell me the
number one anchor job in this industry, You tell me
the job that even as I was working my way
up in the industry, it never crossed my mind that
I could get into that seat. It is that is
Dan Rather's, Walter Cronkite's fucking seat.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Yeah, exactly, it is.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
It prestigious as hell. So yes, we're gonna pay attention
to Tony Dekople if he's taken over that seat.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
It's a really fair point to make.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
I think any journalist who has aspirations of being in
the National Forum, basically the top of your game, still
wouldn't dare say, Yeah, I'm gonna be.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
The evening news anchor.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
That is just a seat that is special and held
for only a few And I never had that dream
because I didn't think it was possible either.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Again, we're mourning people, it's not our lane. That's fine,
but still there was not that No, weren't that many
jobs in the industry that I thought.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
Nah, don't even try bottom. Yeah, and just this is
just a prestigious seat. So we can honestly say we're
rooting for this guy, we are rooting for this show,
We're rooting for this to work. We're still a part
of this industry robes that has fallen off so much
that we we don't like to see ratings fall. We
(04:32):
don't like to see some of that shine come off
of these prestigious shows and networks.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
And I don't think any of us want a journalist
to come off as not being at the top of
his or her game at this level, because that spakes
so all of us in this industry, like we're all
a part of it. So if suddenly someone who shouldn't
be there, doesn't deserve to be there, isn't ready for
the job, it makes everybody look inept and on and
(05:00):
so yes, just by that standard alone, I want journalists
to show how smart and how well read and how
curious they are in the best of ways.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Too often on these shows, some people do get the
reputation just a newsreader, just a pretty face, the hair
is just right, and talking head, yes, talking heads, and
we obviously know they're overwhelmingly on the network level. That's
not the case. However, we see it plenty of times
(05:33):
where there are some people on these shows who cannot
anchor their way out of a paper bag if they
had to. And Tony Decoppo had a couple of moments
last night, and I could absolutely give him a pass
because it was his first night, and know he was nervous,
and he looked nervous, and he should have been nervous.
But there were some moments that there are kids in
college right now who know not to do some of
(05:54):
the stuff he did.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
And look, there is a big transition from being on
a morning show to doing evening news.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
When you've been.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Able to do both, you literally have to kind of
flip a switch because when you're on a morning show,
it's loose. You can be silly. If you make a mistake,
you can point it out and laugh at it, even
though they didn't really like that. It's generally not okay
to do it. But if there was in a lighter moment,
you could be humble and maybe fall on your own
sword and make it look like you made it's okay.
Evening news, it is formal. You want someone who is authoritative,
(06:25):
someone who is credible, someone who knows what they're saying,
and who is literally leading and steering the ship.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
It's a very different position.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
And you know, you make a point two morning show,
what do you also have? You have Life Savers right
next to you. You got an anchor team. Heything goes wrong,
everybody can cover. If you don't know how to say
a name, they can jump in. He was out there
flapping in the wind at times. So let's tell you
what happened here. Actually, Robes, he was supposed to well
in December, they made the announcement he was going to
be leaving CBS Morning Show, where he's been with Gail
(06:55):
King since twenty nineteen. So he's leaving that show. They
make the announcement, Okay, getting in the gig. He was
supposed to start officially January fifth. Yesterday was supposed to
be his first day, but he had to start early
Rose because there have to be a little breaking news
over the weekend with Maduro. So he actually Tony Decoppo
made an earlier debut than anticipated. You would think maybe
that I would think that would help things.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Up for Monday, almost like a trial run.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Yeah, when there's breaking it like it's easy at this point,
the news is right there, just report it. So I
thought maybe he would be able to get loose and
he'd be really ready to go on Monday. Now I
will ropes or all in. We're going to give our
just observations what we saw. And yes, he's nervous. He
should be. He looked a little uncomfortable, he was leaning weird.
(07:42):
He constantly with the papers moving. It drives me. Creek
stopped shuffling papers. He did it constantly last night. These
are just little titnus is fine. These are not even
critiques necessarily, but someone in that office is saying, hey,
change this. Get a little nervous here, keep an eye
on this, don't shuffle the paper so much. Blah blah
blah blah.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
But Robes.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
When we got to the editorial, that is when things
got scary. And I say scary as someone as people
who've been watching this industry for a long time, and
folks were wondering wondering what direction CBS News was going
to go. I think he gave us a couple of indications.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
He certainly did.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
There were a couple of stories of note that seemed
to actually, again, did he just say that?
Speaker 3 (08:25):
And one was when he was discussing vaccinations.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
There was the Pete heg Seth interview on the Saturday Show,
and then there was the conversation about the invasion of
Venezuela and oil prices and why we went into Venezuela
in the first place and what the aftermath might be.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
It was all a little scary.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
I it was, Okay, it makes me nervous. I hate
that you. I don't want to just be so hyperbolic here,
but it was, it was. It was It was alarming
to see some of the things he was doing, and
it wasn't on cable news.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
What I saw was, yes, more exactly what you were
talking about a cable news interview, because it wasn't about
being curious. It was about leading whoever you were speaking
to to say something that you wanted them to say.
It was less about asking a question that maybe everyone
was wondering at home and instead saying, but let me
(09:22):
get you to explain why this is actually a good thing.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
There was an agenda.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
A lot of folks will tell you that so many
in the media have had an agenda for a long time.
Exactly you were, and so what's the problem now we're
showing you a different agenda or other side. If you
want to make that argument, fine, But there weren't whole
stories being told. You want to criticize an ABC and
NBC for doing this, then you should be able to
take it as well. Es we were looking and to
be frank, folks, all the headlines were consistent about his
(09:51):
first day. Variety's article is the one that really got
our attention because they seemed to they seemed to be
brutal without being They seemed to be they didn't pull
any punches, I suppose, but it didn't seem mean spirited.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
It wasn't mean spirited at all.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
In fact, they just seemed to point out what we
all noticed in a very factual way, and unfortunately, in
doing so, it was not a positive story for Tony
de Coppel or for CBS Evening News.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
I think this is the This is a line from
the article that helps you understand what we're talking about here. Quote.
The administration's perspective was aired so thoroughly as to raise
the question of when an interview becomes a press release.
That's what they wrote about the hex Seth interview. I
don't know ropes. This was what it was. The story.
(10:46):
We did another story earlier today and I only got
upset after we started recording. I didn't realize how bothered
I was by it. And this is just it's bothersome
when it's this type of blatant and look, Tony de Coppel,
for all intents and purposes, he is there. We haven't
given the background. We don't have to do. We know
Trump versus CBS. They paid him sixty million or he
(11:09):
got upset about a sixty minutes interview. Paramount was bought
by sky Dance was owned by the Ellisons, who are
close with Trump. They hire Barry Weiss, an opinion journalist,
and she is taking the place whatever direction she wants to.
He looked like he was sitting there making damn sure
he said everything right or he was going to get
(11:31):
in trouble.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Several people wrote that he looked afraid, that he had
fear in his face. Now, look, he could have had
fear in his face, because it's a daunting thing to
take over the role of Walter Cronkite. Basically, he knows
the job he has, He knows the gravity of getting
a position like that, and clearly it's exciting to get it,
but it's more important to keep it. And that's probably
(11:53):
the harder of the two. Even as difficult as it
is to get the job, keeping it has proven, at
least at CBS to be almost harder. And so, yes,
he looked afraid. So some people were saying it was
as if Barry Weiss he knows the second he says
the wrong thing, or does the wrong thing, or says
something she doesn't like, he's out. And so that was
what people were attributing the look on his face to
(12:14):
fairly or unfairly, that's just what was written.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
You know what, We're gonna hold this stay here. As
soon as we come back, We're gonna immediately get into
the key moment that had us jaws dropped and we
were rewinding several times to make sure we heard what
we had just heard. We'll explain that moment. We'll also
explain what you were saying as well, Robes big problems
(12:42):
here at CBS. Yes, he said that. We will give
you the verbatim of that fumbling moment that so many
are talking about, and also let you know where CBS News,
the Evening News is in the ratings and how much
work they got to do. Moving forward with mister Tony.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Di coppol, Welcome back to Amy and TJ. We are
talking about the debut of the news, CBS Evening News
with Tony d Copple. It officially launched on Monday night,
(13:20):
and there are a lot of opinions about what we
all saw yesterday evening and they've all kind of reached
a consensus that Tony dacopple, they're concerned about whether or
not he's ready for primetime, and they're more concerned perhaps
about the direction the Evening News is taking with him
at the helm.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
I'm okay with the I don't know if he's primetime.
He's done the morning show at the network level for
five six years now. He should be ready for this,
so I will give him a pass on being ready
for primetime.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Is your first night, Yes, we all have to we
all have rough broadcasts.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Yes it happens.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
We've all made mistakes, and in he might know way
better than to call. We'll get into what happened to
call out a problem. But sometimes when you get nervous there,
you just have a knee jerk reaction, and when you're
on live television, you cannot take it back. So that
may have been what happened, But maybe perhaps even more
concerning is what happened just before that very obvious gaff
(14:18):
that happened. He came out of a piece that was
discussing what happened in Venezuela, and so then he spoke.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
To what was Jill Business correspond.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Business correspondent, and they really did treat this as a
business story, less about a political story or a controversial story,
or a legal story kind of all of that was
ignored and it was more a business story about gas prices,
and so when he finished talking to her, he wanted
to explain something to the American people who were listening.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
This is the part and I couldn't tell you after
he did it, but he was setting up to a
point where he looked nervous, like he knew something was coming,
and he was We've done this plenty. You're so focused
on the next thing that you screw up what you're
doing at the time, and he just looked out of
sorts as he was rapping and saying thank you to Jill,
and she said something what he said, No, you're awesome, right?
Speaker 2 (15:15):
No?
Speaker 3 (15:15):
She uh? What was the word he used? It was bizarre.
It was just an awkward.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Transition, an awkward moment, and not something you're used to hearing,
certainly at this desk. So he wrapped her up and
then he turns to the camera for a one shot
and he's not telling a story. But this is the
zact precise quote and we should share it, heroes. But again,
(15:43):
we're not actually going to interpret any of us. This
is his exact quote after he rapped with the reporter
about oil prices.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
So, as you just heard from Jill, we should not
expect this to affect gas prices all that much, which
does raise the question of exactly how now it helps
the United States, and if it helps the United States
at all, which is it actually about.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Well, if you zoom.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Out a bit, you can maybe see the outlines of
an answer. For decades, Russia, China, and Iran have been
rebuilding a presence in Venezuela, a base of power and
influence in the hemisphere. With Maduro now out, that base
of power and influence could be out too. That sounds
like propaganda one oh one written by the White House.
(16:31):
What And he looked like he knew he was doing
something wrong. That was the look on his face. As
a journalist, he knew he was reading talking points political
talking points.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
He gave even a justification for what we did. This
is how it could be beneficial to us that he
could speculate all he wants. He's more than welcome to.
But for us, if you say this, expert said, if
you said, these political watchers now they are saying in
this is a part of what's gotten him in trouble
or a lot of the critique ropes is that he
has gone out there and gone out of his way
(17:06):
to promote this show and his journalism as something different.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Can I please read his words?
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Please?
Speaker 3 (17:16):
He pledged this to viewers.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
You come first, not advertisers, not politicians, not corporate interests,
and yes that does include the corporate owners of CBS.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
I report for you.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
I can promise you will be more accountable and more
transparent than Cronkite or anyone else of his era.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
You gotta pump the breaks on Kronkite. You got. It's
like saying, yeah, this is a better melody than Prince
ever wrote. I mean, slow down. There's just some things
you don't mess with. Don't challenge, don't tell me you're
doing anything better than Cronkite that is going to get
you immediate criticism.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
Just do better and see if they write about it.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
What was this thing he said? Make me earn it, right,
he said, don't just trust me, make me earn your
trust to your point there, Yes, you don't have to
tell us you're better than Cronkite. We're willing to give
you a shot here. We will watch. But that that
line robes that entire reading of it. And when you
watch him do it, it did it looked like some
(18:19):
kind of bizarre It didn't look like it was willing,
He didn't deliver it with confidence. He looked like he
was being made by his teacher to apologize to the class.
It was just this is just an impression. We don't
know this guy, This is not personal at all. But
when we've watched enough news robes and we know what
(18:40):
we heard and what we were seeing from him in that.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Moment, and look, our job is journalists, I want to
point this out, is to question our government, is to investigate,
to not just take things at face value, and certainly
not to explain or justify our leader's actions. And that's
what we saw, and that's what's concerning. And our job
is to question who is running our country from both
(19:05):
sides of the aisle, Republicans and Democrats. So if you
want to say people are softer on this or harder
on that, I get that. But the point being is
you always are supposed to question, You're always supposed to
be curious.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
That is our job. It is not to advocate.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
For or justify or explain why someone did something controversial.
That's what's concerning about it. That's why it doesn't feel right.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
It didn't feel right, and I want to I'm trying
to give this a a journalistic lean, right, Maybe do
they see this as interpreting or giving a perspective You're
not hearing elsewhere? Is there a perspective here he introduced
it or said it as possibilities that influence that base
of power could be out to. It was I don't
(19:49):
I just it stopped. We immediately and watching this broadcast,
that was the thing that we've stopped and went, what
in God's name is that? And look, I'm trying to
find a way to say, yo, let them do the thing.
This is how they want to go about it. How
that was anything other than what is being described in
a lot of places. Robes and right after that, this
is the thing that at least got the most headlines.
(20:11):
Probably is as soon as he delivered that line and Robes,
he flubbed the thing he did before, and he flubbed
the thing he did right after, which you know.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
As a nous that is when you know something's wrong
and then you mess up all around it.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
And that is exactly what happened, because.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
He was so focused on getting that right that he
didn't stay in the moment of those other segments. And
again we can suggest We've seen this a million times.
We've done it a million times to ourselves. But right
after he made that I guess declaration or giving us
more context or pulling back as he said, this is
where things got off the rails. Technically sure, but Robes,
(20:47):
you want to take the verbatim here. It's kind of
weird to read, but what you're about to hear, folks
verbatim word for word. His next segment, it didn't go
right because they had the wrong video up and he
wasn't sure where to go. But this is how he handled.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
It to other news, as you just heard from Jill
Well to other news. Now to Governor Wallace. No, we're
going to Mark Kelly. He starts shaking his head. First day,
first day, big problems here. Uh are we going to
Kelly here? Or are we going to go to Jonah
Kaplan Like he's literally talking to his producers on live television.
(21:26):
Now there is four seconds of silence. That's an eternity
in live television.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
It's insane.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Then he finally says where Mark Kelly possibly demoted from
his rank of captain in the navy, and then he
goes on to tell the story.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
But to me, the flub.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Yes, is making the headlines, but what preceded the flub
is what actually we should be focused on.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
And I'm worried about him a little bit. Robes here Again.
People have these moments. But when you're in that seat,
your job, you get the big bucks right because it
doesn't matter what you throw at me, the viewer is
never going to know anything wrong. Watch me handle this.
I am the anchor, the anchor of this all. I
(22:07):
am running this show. We are going here, we are
going here next. Oh, that's the wrong video. Let me
tell you about that. You just keep it rolling.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
You say, hey, I know you guys are seeing Mark
Kelly's face about me, but what we're talking about is this,
and you just keep going. And I'm assuming usually if
you are the CBS Evening News anchor, you are also
the managing editor.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
Act like one. You need to take charge.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
I know it's tough, it's his first day on the job,
but that is one of the more important parts of
the job is to take charge and to lead.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
That was concerning that on this level that happened. Look,
we've seen a bunch of Look I've been responded many,
We've got countless.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
We have you and I were in cable news. I mean,
I wouldn't, Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
But that's where you learn to handle these things. It's
all live. It's all live. So yes, there is a
different skill set. Give him a pass there, but it
is a little concerning. And four seconds, folks, doesn't seem
like a long time if you're watching television and there
is nothing being said on a broadcast for four seconds. Rhodes,
(23:12):
let's show what four seconds looks like. You're ready starting Now,
that's a long time. It is a long time in
a broadcast. Yeah, network show. So it look, it was
a rough start, and we're trying look some of this.
In our job, we talk about these things. The hardest
(23:32):
thing for us to do is to critique anything else
from broadcast news because some of these people are our
friends and our colleagues, and we know what they're going through.
We know it, so this is not personal. Think he's
going to be okay, actually rooting for him.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
He had a rough start, Yeah he did.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
And we didn't even mention the fact that when he
has to follow up about vaccinations, he came at it
from the perspective of anti vaxxers. He didn't say parents
are going to have a lot of questions. They're going
to be confused, so parents are going to have so
we said, there are parents who are celebrating this. So
he actually asked the follow up through the lens of
(24:07):
anti vaxxers. That was deeply disturbing as well.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Again, it's in some might be looking at wow. George
Stephanopolis never would have asked the question that way. It's
a relief to have another side represent it.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Yes, I hear you, but then that is cable news,
and if you are actually a CBS network news you
there is a way to ask both. You know, for
people who are celebrating and people who are concerned, what
do you say to them?
Speaker 3 (24:30):
As a physician, you can acknowledge both.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Seemed like there was possibly an agenda and if that's
what they want to do, that's okay. But we're seeing
what we're seeing Tony rooting for you, h really and
room for that chair and rooting for a lot of
people at that network network quite frankly, and there's some
work to do on the CBS Evening News. I can't
remember the last time they were competitive, but they've been
a distant third for a long time.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
Yes, late latest ratings.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
You have here ABC seven point five million, NBC six million,
n CBS at four point two million, So they do
have a lot of ways to.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Go, all right, but we will keep an eye certain
this is must see TV now and you know he
can't wait to get back on TV tonight to get
that one behind.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
He wants redemption show. Yes, that was understandable.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
You remember that that was the best thing every time
you screwed up a show.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
Yeah, wow, I get tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
I got another chance tomorrow. So Tony, you got another
chance tonight. We will be watching. Good luck to you
all over there. I always appreciate you all spending some
time here with us. But for my dear Amy Robock,
I am t J. Holmes. You will talk to the
Ulson
Hey, that folks, sit is Tuesday, January sixth, and give
a brother a break. Everybody has some first day jitters
at work, and that certainly seemed to be the case
for Tony Decoppel on his first night as head of
CBS Evening News. And with that, welcome to this episode
of Amy and TJ. Rowe much anticipated this debut. Obviously
(00:25):
it was going to get a lot of eyes, and
it was going to get scrutinized. But there seems to
be a consistent at least in all the reviews and
all the writings about his first day.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Well, they actually used his own words to describe his
first day, which is, we've got a big problem already
the first day, and we already have a big problem
here at CBS.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
It's a he gave it to him.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
He actually said that on live television in the at
least the first feed, the feed that we see here
on the East Coast, it was all corrected for leater feeds,
which is very typical and standard.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
He said it live.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
But he said it live, and there was no taking
it back. And yeah, when things got a little funky
technical technically speaking, he called it out and said, we've
got first day, I already got big problems here at CBS.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Who Yes, that was the headline and.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
That was a mistake. And we can say that based
on the industry and all the teachings and the decades
we have in it. We are going to get into
this now in roles. We have to be very careful
because we don't know this guy and we certainly give
him whatever benefit of the doubt that he is certainly capable.
So please, folks understand, all we are doing is giving
(01:33):
you our thoughts about what we saw and what is
Isn't it fair to say this is CBS even news
is the lowest rated, but maybe the most respected. I mean,
given the history you talk about Cronkite and Burrow and
Rather and this was isn't this the most important seat
(01:54):
even though the ratings haven't shown that over the years recent.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Years, Yes, and you know what a lot of people
why not realize that?
Speaker 2 (02:01):
But within the journalism industry, so maybe those of us
who have worked and worked in network news, CBS was
the gold standard for journalism excellence and really what you
aimed for. And in recent years, yes, when it comes
to ratings, they have struggled and they have been the
also ran, and they have been not as regarded, maybe publicly,
(02:25):
but within the industry. No matter what the ratings were,
you knew you could look to CBS for doing that
hard hitting investigative journalism a last sixty Minutes, even these
really interesting in depth pieces on sixty on a Sunday sorry,
CBS Sunday Mornings. They just have these brands that people
knew they could trust for the most accurate, fullest picture possible.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
And I'm just yes to all that. Sixty Minutes is
still holding on to that. CBS Sunday Mornings is still
holding on to that. This seat, for whatever reason happened,
hasn't been able to And it's not just a matter
of ratings, we should say. I guess moves they've made
over the years have kind of chipped away, And to
have so many people in and out of that seat
(03:11):
doesn't help either. But for me, you tell me the
number one anchor job in this industry, You tell me
the job that even as I was working my way
up in the industry, it never crossed my mind that
I could get into that seat. It is that is
Dan Rather's, Walter Cronkite's fucking seat.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Yeah, exactly, it is.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
It prestigious as hell. So yes, we're gonna pay attention
to Tony Dekople if he's taken over that seat.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
It's a really fair point to make.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
I think any journalist who has aspirations of being in
the National Forum, basically the top of your game, still
wouldn't dare say, Yeah, I'm gonna be.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
The evening news anchor.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
That is just a seat that is special and held
for only a few And I never had that dream
because I didn't think it was possible either.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Again, we're mourning people, it's not our lane. That's fine,
but still there was not that No, weren't that many
jobs in the industry that I thought.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
Nah, don't even try bottom. Yeah, and just this is
just a prestigious seat. So we can honestly say we're
rooting for this guy, we are rooting for this show,
We're rooting for this to work. We're still a part
of this industry robes that has fallen off so much
that we we don't like to see ratings fall. We
(04:32):
don't like to see some of that shine come off
of these prestigious shows and networks.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
And I don't think any of us want a journalist
to come off as not being at the top of
his or her game at this level, because that spakes
so all of us in this industry, like we're all
a part of it. So if suddenly someone who shouldn't
be there, doesn't deserve to be there, isn't ready for
the job, it makes everybody look inept and on and
(05:00):
so yes, just by that standard alone, I want journalists
to show how smart and how well read and how
curious they are in the best of ways.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Too often on these shows, some people do get the
reputation just a newsreader, just a pretty face, the hair
is just right, and talking head, yes, talking heads, and
we obviously know they're overwhelmingly on the network level. That's
not the case. However, we see it plenty of times
(05:33):
where there are some people on these shows who cannot
anchor their way out of a paper bag if they
had to. And Tony Decoppo had a couple of moments
last night, and I could absolutely give him a pass
because it was his first night, and know he was nervous,
and he looked nervous, and he should have been nervous.
But there were some moments that there are kids in
college right now who know not to do some of
(05:54):
the stuff he did.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
And look, there is a big transition from being on
a morning show to doing evening news.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
When you've been.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Able to do both, you literally have to kind of
flip a switch because when you're on a morning show,
it's loose. You can be silly. If you make a mistake,
you can point it out and laugh at it, even
though they didn't really like that. It's generally not okay
to do it. But if there was in a lighter moment,
you could be humble and maybe fall on your own
sword and make it look like you made it's okay.
Evening news, it is formal. You want someone who is authoritative,
(06:25):
someone who is credible, someone who knows what they're saying,
and who is literally leading and steering the ship.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
It's a very different position.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
And you know, you make a point two morning show,
what do you also have? You have Life Savers right
next to you. You got an anchor team. Heything goes wrong,
everybody can cover. If you don't know how to say
a name, they can jump in. He was out there
flapping in the wind at times. So let's tell you
what happened here. Actually, Robes, he was supposed to well
in December, they made the announcement he was going to
be leaving CBS Morning Show, where he's been with Gail
(06:55):
King since twenty nineteen. So he's leaving that show. They
make the announcement, Okay, getting in the gig. He was
supposed to start officially January fifth. Yesterday was supposed to
be his first day, but he had to start early
Rose because there have to be a little breaking news
over the weekend with Maduro. So he actually Tony Decoppo
made an earlier debut than anticipated. You would think maybe
that I would think that would help things.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Up for Monday, almost like a trial run.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Yeah, when there's breaking it like it's easy at this point,
the news is right there, just report it. So I
thought maybe he would be able to get loose and
he'd be really ready to go on Monday. Now I
will ropes or all in. We're going to give our
just observations what we saw. And yes, he's nervous. He
should be. He looked a little uncomfortable, he was leaning weird.
(07:42):
He constantly with the papers moving. It drives me. Creek
stopped shuffling papers. He did it constantly last night. These
are just little titnus is fine. These are not even
critiques necessarily, but someone in that office is saying, hey,
change this. Get a little nervous here, keep an eye
on this, don't shuffle the paper so much. Blah blah
blah blah.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
But Robes.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
When we got to the editorial, that is when things
got scary. And I say scary as someone as people
who've been watching this industry for a long time, and
folks were wondering wondering what direction CBS News was going
to go. I think he gave us a couple of indications.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
He certainly did.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
There were a couple of stories of note that seemed
to actually, again, did he just say that?
Speaker 3 (08:25):
And one was when he was discussing vaccinations.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
There was the Pete heg Seth interview on the Saturday Show,
and then there was the conversation about the invasion of
Venezuela and oil prices and why we went into Venezuela
in the first place and what the aftermath might be.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
It was all a little scary.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
I it was, Okay, it makes me nervous. I hate
that you. I don't want to just be so hyperbolic here,
but it was, it was. It was It was alarming
to see some of the things he was doing, and
it wasn't on cable news.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
What I saw was, yes, more exactly what you were
talking about a cable news interview, because it wasn't about
being curious. It was about leading whoever you were speaking
to to say something that you wanted them to say.
It was less about asking a question that maybe everyone
was wondering at home and instead saying, but let me
(09:22):
get you to explain why this is actually a good thing.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
There was an agenda.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
A lot of folks will tell you that so many
in the media have had an agenda for a long time.
Exactly you were, and so what's the problem now we're
showing you a different agenda or other side. If you
want to make that argument, fine, But there weren't whole
stories being told. You want to criticize an ABC and
NBC for doing this, then you should be able to
take it as well. Es we were looking and to
be frank, folks, all the headlines were consistent about his
(09:51):
first day. Variety's article is the one that really got
our attention because they seemed to they seemed to be
brutal without being They seemed to be they didn't pull
any punches, I suppose, but it didn't seem mean spirited.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
It wasn't mean spirited at all.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
In fact, they just seemed to point out what we
all noticed in a very factual way, and unfortunately, in
doing so, it was not a positive story for Tony
de Coppel or for CBS Evening News.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
I think this is the This is a line from
the article that helps you understand what we're talking about here. Quote.
The administration's perspective was aired so thoroughly as to raise
the question of when an interview becomes a press release.
That's what they wrote about the hex Seth interview. I
don't know ropes. This was what it was. The story.
(10:46):
We did another story earlier today and I only got
upset after we started recording. I didn't realize how bothered
I was by it. And this is just it's bothersome
when it's this type of blatant and look, Tony de Coppel,
for all intents and purposes, he is there. We haven't
given the background. We don't have to do. We know
Trump versus CBS. They paid him sixty million or he
(11:09):
got upset about a sixty minutes interview. Paramount was bought
by sky Dance was owned by the Ellisons, who are
close with Trump. They hire Barry Weiss, an opinion journalist,
and she is taking the place whatever direction she wants to.
He looked like he was sitting there making damn sure
he said everything right or he was going to get
(11:31):
in trouble.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Several people wrote that he looked afraid, that he had
fear in his face. Now, look, he could have had
fear in his face, because it's a daunting thing to
take over the role of Walter Cronkite. Basically, he knows
the job he has, He knows the gravity of getting
a position like that, and clearly it's exciting to get it,
but it's more important to keep it. And that's probably
(11:53):
the harder of the two. Even as difficult as it
is to get the job, keeping it has proven, at
least at CBS to be almost harder. And so, yes,
he looked afraid. So some people were saying it was
as if Barry Weiss he knows the second he says
the wrong thing, or does the wrong thing, or says
something she doesn't like, he's out. And so that was
what people were attributing the look on his face to
(12:14):
fairly or unfairly, that's just what was written.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
You know what, We're gonna hold this stay here. As
soon as we come back, We're gonna immediately get into
the key moment that had us jaws dropped and we
were rewinding several times to make sure we heard what
we had just heard. We'll explain that moment. We'll also
explain what you were saying as well, Robes big problems
(12:42):
here at CBS. Yes, he said that. We will give
you the verbatim of that fumbling moment that so many
are talking about, and also let you know where CBS News,
the Evening News is in the ratings and how much
work they got to do. Moving forward with mister Tony.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Di coppol, Welcome back to Amy and TJ. We are
talking about the debut of the news, CBS Evening News
with Tony d Copple. It officially launched on Monday night,
(13:20):
and there are a lot of opinions about what we
all saw yesterday evening and they've all kind of reached
a consensus that Tony dacopple, they're concerned about whether or
not he's ready for primetime, and they're more concerned perhaps
about the direction the Evening News is taking with him
at the helm.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
I'm okay with the I don't know if he's primetime.
He's done the morning show at the network level for
five six years now. He should be ready for this,
so I will give him a pass on being ready
for primetime.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Is your first night, Yes, we all have to we
all have rough broadcasts.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Yes it happens.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
We've all made mistakes, and in he might know way
better than to call. We'll get into what happened to
call out a problem. But sometimes when you get nervous there,
you just have a knee jerk reaction, and when you're
on live television, you cannot take it back. So that
may have been what happened, But maybe perhaps even more
concerning is what happened just before that very obvious gaff
(14:18):
that happened. He came out of a piece that was
discussing what happened in Venezuela, and so then he spoke.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
To what was Jill Business correspond.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Business correspondent, and they really did treat this as a
business story, less about a political story or a controversial story,
or a legal story kind of all of that was
ignored and it was more a business story about gas prices,
and so when he finished talking to her, he wanted
to explain something to the American people who were listening.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
This is the part and I couldn't tell you after
he did it, but he was setting up to a
point where he looked nervous, like he knew something was coming,
and he was We've done this plenty. You're so focused
on the next thing that you screw up what you're
doing at the time, and he just looked out of
sorts as he was rapping and saying thank you to Jill,
and she said something what he said, No, you're awesome, right?
Speaker 2 (15:15):
No?
Speaker 3 (15:15):
She uh? What was the word he used? It was bizarre.
It was just an awkward.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Transition, an awkward moment, and not something you're used to hearing,
certainly at this desk. So he wrapped her up and
then he turns to the camera for a one shot
and he's not telling a story. But this is the
zact precise quote and we should share it, heroes. But again,
(15:43):
we're not actually going to interpret any of us. This
is his exact quote after he rapped with the reporter
about oil prices.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
So, as you just heard from Jill, we should not
expect this to affect gas prices all that much, which
does raise the question of exactly how now it helps
the United States, and if it helps the United States
at all, which is it actually about.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Well, if you zoom.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Out a bit, you can maybe see the outlines of
an answer. For decades, Russia, China, and Iran have been
rebuilding a presence in Venezuela, a base of power and
influence in the hemisphere. With Maduro now out, that base
of power and influence could be out too. That sounds
like propaganda one oh one written by the White House.
(16:31):
What And he looked like he knew he was doing
something wrong. That was the look on his face. As
a journalist, he knew he was reading talking points political
talking points.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
He gave even a justification for what we did. This
is how it could be beneficial to us that he
could speculate all he wants. He's more than welcome to.
But for us, if you say this, expert said, if
you said, these political watchers now they are saying in
this is a part of what's gotten him in trouble
or a lot of the critique ropes is that he
has gone out there and gone out of his way
(17:06):
to promote this show and his journalism as something different.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Can I please read his words?
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Please?
Speaker 3 (17:16):
He pledged this to viewers.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
You come first, not advertisers, not politicians, not corporate interests,
and yes that does include the corporate owners of CBS.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
I report for you.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
I can promise you will be more accountable and more
transparent than Cronkite or anyone else of his era.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
You gotta pump the breaks on Kronkite. You got. It's
like saying, yeah, this is a better melody than Prince
ever wrote. I mean, slow down. There's just some things
you don't mess with. Don't challenge, don't tell me you're
doing anything better than Cronkite that is going to get
you immediate criticism.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
Just do better and see if they write about it.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
What was this thing he said? Make me earn it, right,
he said, don't just trust me, make me earn your
trust to your point there, Yes, you don't have to
tell us you're better than Cronkite. We're willing to give
you a shot here. We will watch. But that that
line robes that entire reading of it. And when you
watch him do it, it did it looked like some
(18:19):
kind of bizarre It didn't look like it was willing,
He didn't deliver it with confidence. He looked like he
was being made by his teacher to apologize to the class.
It was just this is just an impression. We don't
know this guy, This is not personal at all. But
when we've watched enough news robes and we know what
(18:40):
we heard and what we were seeing from him in that.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Moment, and look, our job is journalists, I want to
point this out, is to question our government, is to investigate,
to not just take things at face value, and certainly
not to explain or justify our leader's actions. And that's
what we saw, and that's what's concerning. And our job
is to question who is running our country from both
(19:05):
sides of the aisle, Republicans and Democrats. So if you
want to say people are softer on this or harder
on that, I get that. But the point being is
you always are supposed to question, You're always supposed to
be curious.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
That is our job. It is not to advocate.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
For or justify or explain why someone did something controversial.
That's what's concerning about it. That's why it doesn't feel right.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
It didn't feel right, and I want to I'm trying
to give this a a journalistic lean, right, Maybe do
they see this as interpreting or giving a perspective You're
not hearing elsewhere? Is there a perspective here he introduced
it or said it as possibilities that influence that base
of power could be out to. It was I don't
(19:49):
I just it stopped. We immediately and watching this broadcast,
that was the thing that we've stopped and went, what
in God's name is that? And look, I'm trying to
find a way to say, yo, let them do the thing.
This is how they want to go about it. How
that was anything other than what is being described in
a lot of places. Robes and right after that, this
is the thing that at least got the most headlines.
(20:11):
Probably is as soon as he delivered that line and Robes,
he flubbed the thing he did before, and he flubbed
the thing he did right after, which you know.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
As a nous that is when you know something's wrong
and then you mess up all around it.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
And that is exactly what happened, because.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
He was so focused on getting that right that he
didn't stay in the moment of those other segments. And
again we can suggest We've seen this a million times.
We've done it a million times to ourselves. But right
after he made that I guess declaration or giving us
more context or pulling back as he said, this is
where things got off the rails. Technically sure, but Robes,
(20:47):
you want to take the verbatim here. It's kind of
weird to read, but what you're about to hear, folks
verbatim word for word. His next segment, it didn't go
right because they had the wrong video up and he
wasn't sure where to go. But this is how he handled.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
It to other news, as you just heard from Jill
Well to other news. Now to Governor Wallace. No, we're
going to Mark Kelly. He starts shaking his head. First day,
first day, big problems here. Uh are we going to
Kelly here? Or are we going to go to Jonah
Kaplan Like he's literally talking to his producers on live television.
(21:26):
Now there is four seconds of silence. That's an eternity
in live television.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
It's insane.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Then he finally says where Mark Kelly possibly demoted from
his rank of captain in the navy, and then he
goes on to tell the story.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
But to me, the flub.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Yes, is making the headlines, but what preceded the flub
is what actually we should be focused on.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
And I'm worried about him a little bit. Robes here Again.
People have these moments. But when you're in that seat,
your job, you get the big bucks right because it
doesn't matter what you throw at me, the viewer is
never going to know anything wrong. Watch me handle this.
I am the anchor, the anchor of this all. I
(22:07):
am running this show. We are going here, we are
going here next. Oh, that's the wrong video. Let me
tell you about that. You just keep it rolling.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
You say, hey, I know you guys are seeing Mark
Kelly's face about me, but what we're talking about is this,
and you just keep going. And I'm assuming usually if
you are the CBS Evening News anchor, you are also
the managing editor.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
Act like one. You need to take charge.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
I know it's tough, it's his first day on the job,
but that is one of the more important parts of
the job is to take charge and to lead.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
That was concerning that on this level that happened. Look,
we've seen a bunch of Look I've been responded many,
We've got countless.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
We have you and I were in cable news. I mean,
I wouldn't, Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
But that's where you learn to handle these things. It's
all live. It's all live. So yes, there is a
different skill set. Give him a pass there, but it
is a little concerning. And four seconds, folks, doesn't seem
like a long time if you're watching television and there
is nothing being said on a broadcast for four seconds. Rhodes,
(23:12):
let's show what four seconds looks like. You're ready starting Now,
that's a long time. It is a long time in
a broadcast. Yeah, network show. So it look, it was
a rough start, and we're trying look some of this.
In our job, we talk about these things. The hardest
(23:32):
thing for us to do is to critique anything else
from broadcast news because some of these people are our
friends and our colleagues, and we know what they're going through.
We know it, so this is not personal. Think he's
going to be okay, actually rooting for him.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
He had a rough start, Yeah he did.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
And we didn't even mention the fact that when he
has to follow up about vaccinations, he came at it
from the perspective of anti vaxxers. He didn't say parents
are going to have a lot of questions. They're going
to be confused, so parents are going to have so
we said, there are parents who are celebrating this. So
he actually asked the follow up through the lens of
(24:07):
anti vaxxers. That was deeply disturbing as well.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Again, it's in some might be looking at wow. George
Stephanopolis never would have asked the question that way. It's
a relief to have another side represent it.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Yes, I hear you, but then that is cable news,
and if you are actually a CBS network news you
there is a way to ask both. You know, for
people who are celebrating and people who are concerned, what
do you say to them?
Speaker 3 (24:30):
As a physician, you can acknowledge both.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Seemed like there was possibly an agenda and if that's
what they want to do, that's okay. But we're seeing
what we're seeing Tony rooting for you, h really and
room for that chair and rooting for a lot of
people at that network network quite frankly, and there's some
work to do on the CBS Evening News. I can't
remember the last time they were competitive, but they've been
a distant third for a long time.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
Yes, late latest ratings.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
You have here ABC seven point five million, NBC six million,
n CBS at four point two million, So they do
have a lot of ways to.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Go, all right, but we will keep an eye certain
this is must see TV now and you know he
can't wait to get back on TV tonight to get
that one behind.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
He wants redemption show. Yes, that was understandable.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
You remember that that was the best thing every time
you screwed up a show.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
Yeah, wow, I get tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
I got another chance tomorrow. So Tony, you got another
chance tonight. We will be watching. Good luck to you
all over there. I always appreciate you all spending some
time here with us. But for my dear Amy Robock,
I am t J. Holmes. You will talk to the
Ulson
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