March 14, 2025 • 34 mins
From appearing on "The Hills" to "America's Next Top Model" and more, one of the legendary queens of today's fashion industry, Kelly Cutrone, is here to spill all the ins and outs of the not so soft industry. She teases her latest project with ex-convict Anna Delvey and shares what it was like living with her.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
What is a Rogue Energy. It's Kelly Catron. I'm coming
to you from New York City. Just want to give
you guys a big shout out. I'm happy to be
here today. I'm the founder of People's Revolution and og
in the fashion industry globally, a New York Times bestselling author,
and someone who spent too much time on television. But
a lot of people are going, what's going on in
the world, what's happening with fashion, what's happening on with
(00:31):
digital media? All this stuff. So I've been invited by
Rogue to take you on my perception of what that's like.
Let's check it out for people who don't know. Tell
us the biggest highlights of your long standing career. I mean,
I think that it gets highlight of my long standing careers.
I'm still standing. I mean, I've done so much over
my career. I mean, one of the coolest things that
(00:53):
I've done is it was like a year after September eleventh,
and everyone was very superstitious in New York doing fashion
shows and IMG couldn't even book any of their tents
and no one would do it. So I was like, Okay,
I'll take all the time slots, and we brought all
of our clients up to the tents because we were thinking,
you know, what are we supposed to do? Just like
(01:14):
lay down forever? Like we have to get back to business.
Not that we're being disrespectful to the lives that were lost,
but by applauding life and saying like we're New York
were unstoppable. So that was a pretty big deal. I
don't think anyone's ever done more shows than I did
in that day, and I hope I never have to again.
It was insanity. So people want to know, do I
(01:35):
think if the industry is too soft? I mean, I
think there's too many voices in the industry for sure.
I mean, like if I see one more kid on
Instagram who has nothing to do with fashion, knows nothing
about fashion, and then takes award ceremonies where all of
these fashion people are getting their awe from making the
dresses to getting in there, to the stylist, to the
(01:55):
glam teams, and their contribution to society is to stand
in front of pictures where they haven't even paid for
the content, and then their fashion criticism is like slay fierce.
I don't think so it's like, I don't think so
about you. I also don't think that society has gotten
too soft. I think society is way too hard right now.
I mean, the masses are a dangerous group of people
(02:18):
and we don't really you know, what's happening in society
is really scary. So I don't think there's anything soft
about what's happening in society. I think it's completely oppressive, judgmental,
and dangerous to consumerism because when people do stupid things
across the board, consumers clenched back, and the first thing
(02:42):
to go are goods like fashion, and they're like, do
I really need another pair of black boots? Do I
really need? I don't know. The world's falling apart, and
so it's just very bad for the economy. And I
don't think it's too soft at all. I think it
needs to be softer. Is there a difference between people
being soft and just setting boundaries. Yeah, there's a big
difference between setting boundaries and being stuff. But I don't
(03:04):
think that you know, in the workplace, yeah, you do
have to set some boundaries, but you also have to
understand where you are, Like, you know, if you know
you have a fear of firearms, Like the military is
not the best place to be if you don't like
working long hours. The fashion industry is not the place
to be. So don't kid yourself, like, you know, I
think there's a lot of young, young kids now where
(03:25):
they're just like yeah, like you know, like I put
in my contract that my clients can't call after seven
o'clock at night, Like, well, then don't work in the
entertainment industry because that's not going to happen. The entertainment
industry isn't going to stop, and the fashion industry is
not going to stop to like some kind of Rubik's cube.
Reconfigure your idea of how the industry should work. And
(03:46):
if you are that fierce and you are that great,
then you should create that template and then go make
it happen. I personally have never seen it happen. Okay,
what are we doing next? So they stop today? Been
in an industry for so long? Could today fashion industry
employees survive the way things used to be today's fashion.
If you're really working in the fashion industry, you're really working.
(04:09):
There's nobody. There's people who think they work in the
fashion industry who aren't really working in the fashion industry.
They probably make up the perception of about forty to
fifty percent of who people think work in the fashion industry.
But the real people who work in the fashion industry,
they're not experiencing, you know, any get out of jail
(04:30):
free cards or any you know, working remotely things like that,
like when you're fitting collections, you can't do it on zoom,
Like you have to be on your knees in the
hotel yay, like putting these clothes on models. So the
fashion industry, yeah, it's it's not going to stop to
accommodate people's you know, concept of what's right. Should it
(04:50):
be safe to go to work, Absolutely, Should you be
free from all of the things that we all right
now more than ever, are fighting for. Absolutely. But that
doesn't mean the workload's going to get easier or you know,
you're going to dinner at seven o'clock during fashion week.
That's just not going to happen. So that's the hard,
cold truth. What's the biggest misconception about fashion PR that
(05:14):
people still get wrong. The biggest misconception about fashion PR
is that PR people don't know what they're doing, and
that they just talk too much and fashion PR is
one of the most dynamic parts of PR because we
don't just communicate the message of the brand. We're involved
in the building of the genetics of the brand, from
(05:35):
what should be on the runway to what shouldn't be
on the runway. How is it going to relate to press?
What's the breakdown of a collection? You know you're going
to show sixty looks. You know, forty percent of that
can be the dream pieces that celebrities are going to
wear on the red carpet, But the other sixty percent
better be stuff that we can sell, whether it's bags
or shoes, or tops or bottoms or jackets. But it
(05:57):
has to be sellable because as Michelle goberr Is, one
of the great Kings of music told me, Killie, you
cannot take glory to the bank, so you have to
make money. It's a big industry. It's a huge export
business out of the United States, and yeah, worked on
some of the biggest names in the industry. Who is
(06:17):
a boss and who couldn't keep up? Some of my
favorite designers that I've worked with, Vivian Westwood was Gangster Dress.
She was the most amazing because she never sold off
parts of herself or her company, so she could still
keep speaking about her message, whether it was to a
free Leonard Peltier, who sadly Vivian passed away before Leonard
(06:40):
was released out of Leavenworth. But she was pretty amazing
to work with. Also Poco or Bond. Jeremy Scott was
I mean, I did Paco forever, a Jean provocateur fifteen years.
I know way too much about lingerie and Jeremy was
always super fun, Jeremy Scott. And who couldn't keep well?
(07:01):
What designers can't keep up? You know the ones who
kid themselves, and so there's a lot of those. Do
I think social media has ruined the high fashion market.
Walmart Burkins, I don't know. I mean a Walmart Burkin's
a bad thing. I don't know. Is it bad that
an Oscar winner is on television? I mean, let's face it,
most people, and I'm not saying this in a mean way,
(07:23):
but fashion is tricky. Like most people that are gonna
buy a Walmart at Birkin, a burkin at Walmart? Most
people that buy a burkin at Walmart? Are you know,
are they gonna buy a birken Bergen? I mean, I
guess if they're a collector, you would want if you
collected burkins, you would want to get a Walmart burkin.
And that would be really great because it doesn't cost
(07:45):
that much money for a brand to, you know, knock
itself off. I think is really really smart because they're
even controlling the piracy of the brand, and then they're
giving the piracy that they're creating value by collaborating with
the company who's going to pay for all the marketing
(08:06):
and the pr and so they've already gouged like the lowest.
So are those people on Kenel Street selling these for
four hundred dollars or people at the Bizarre in Istanbul?
You know, they're selling fake burkins at a bizarre and
Istumbul for like twelve hundred dollars. I mean, that's insane.
So I think the fact that they did the burkin
(08:26):
at Walmart it's kind of a gangster move. It's kind
of smooth because it's like, yeah, you want to knock
us off and sell this stuff for twelve hundred dollars,
We're going to sell it for one hundred and ninety
nine dollars or I don't know how much they are
because I have a Kelly bag, and I'm not you know,
I don't wouldn't spend that much money on a bag personally.
But anyway, let's go on to the next question, shall we.
(08:51):
I think social media No, I don't think it's rue
the high market either. I just think that there's a
lot of people on social media talking about the high
market and they really don't know what they're talking about.
So bye. As someone who's been a fashion industry long
enough to see the ebs and flows, do you think
the bubble will pop when it comes to fashion influencers?
Are they a doma dozen? This whole thing about fashion influencers,
(09:16):
I mean, listen, it's all about how do you get traction?
How do you get a message out when people are
really getting a message out, whether they're a celebrity, whether
they're a publicist, whether they're an author, or whether they're
a person on the internet who truly is an influencer.
Like they have something to say, they say it and
as a result, there's a response. There's either or in
(09:37):
the best case, both a big press push and at
the same time a great sell through. So that's what
fashion brands are looking for. So if you can make
noise and get attention for that in a positive way
or a controversial way or whatever. It is great. If
you can do that and at the same time you
can get a click through sell through for the product,
then we have to recognize that you are actually an influencer.
(10:00):
You're influencing the media and you're influencing the sell through.
So if you can do that, is there a place
for you in the fashion industry, or in the food industry,
or in the car industry or in politics. Abso freaking
lutely whoever can figure out the game and if it's
some sort of a new innovation on the game and
they can steer and drive that ship, absolutely it's great.
You are an influencer if you make no real money
(10:23):
from it. You get your clothes somewhere and you come
to fashion Week with some sad boyfriend who's following you
around like a puppy dog. Take your picture. Are you
an influencer? I don't think so. I think not. Sorry
to say, you know, just because you buy stuff at
Louis Vuittont and take your picture on a cobblestone street
(10:44):
in New York City while people are trying to drive
does not make you an influencer. It just makes you
an attention seeker. But if you can do those other
things like create attention through the media and participate in
a sell through, then you are an influencer. It's the
difference between what is this an influencer and what is
not an influencer. Okay, what do you say to models?
(11:08):
You never had a hustle? Models always hustle, So it's
never easy for models. So you don't think, oh, because
they're on Instagram now they're getting attention. Life is easier.
Being a model is a really hard job. It's a
lot of physical work. It's a lot of getting pushed around.
It's a lot of people tearing, you know, clothes on you,
putting makeup on you, twisting your hair, heating your hair up,
(11:29):
changing your nails, grabbing you. And I'm not making this
sound like a sad, pathetic, privileged person. If people really
know how hard models work and in the amount of
rejection they go through and everything, I have the maximum
respect for models. And I also have the maximum respect
for good models because you know what good models do.
(11:49):
They give you good film. And do you know what
good film does. It helps you sell products and get
your brand message out. So to all the good models
who are really models and you know how to model,
I say things, thank you, Anna delbyh what with a
twenty year old Kelly Caatron listen, I'm exactly. I mean
my twenty year old self today I would say, you
(12:10):
know what, just move to Jamaica, grow your own food,
and have a nice time. I mean, you just have
to think about are you really in this game? Because
if you are, it's going to consume you completely. And
I've been consumed by it and I'm happy that I have,
but it also would have been good to just kick
(12:30):
it in Jamaica and not have a lot of money
and and just you know, live a nice life. I mean,
fashion is for the extreme. Prs for the extreme. If
you want to be in the middle, like, don't don't
go into fashion, Anna Delvy. How didn't Anna Telby so
(13:00):
a daughter is twenty two. I woke up one day
She's like, Mommy, your on call her daddy. I was like,
oh no, why am I on call her daddy? And
Anna Delavey was being interviewed by Alex and she said,
you know, why'd you move to New York? And she said, well,
I was watching MTV in the hills and I saw
Kelly Katron and I thought fashion pr could be cool,
and so that's how I found out about Anna. And
(13:22):
a few months later my phone ran and it was
a brand of ours. We had a mutual friend in
common and they said, Anna, I would like to meet you.
And then I thought about Anna and that she was
living on this roof and we had this young designer
that we wanted to launch, and I was thinking, how
are we going to get attention for her? Like if
we did like a pop up agency called Outlaw, it
(13:43):
would probably be cool and we could do it on
your roof and we'll keep it really small. So that's
what we did, and it's probably one of the best
shows I've ever done in my career. I mean, I'd
say it's definitely in the top ten or fifteen. And
then after that, because I'm significantly older than her, you know,
I didn't feel good about leaving her and that apartment,
and I thought, you know, how would I want to
(14:03):
be treated or would want somebody to treat my daughter?
So I invited her to move to my house in
upstate New York, where we've been living for like the
last year. But she just got her own new apartment,
and we're working on a couple of things. So maybe
we're going to launch a brand called nothing, which is
based on her like iconic answer she exited DWTS. But
(14:26):
we're definitely taking a media project out called the Outline
Agency that we're shopping now and a podcast thing called
My Fake Talk Show. So that's what we're up to.
Oh is it? I mean, it's an interesting pairing. The
reason why I think the big joke now is that
I get to be the good guy when I hang
out with Anna instead of like the mean one. Okay,
(14:48):
so when Anna left Dancing with the Stars, you know Anna,
people were upset that she said nothing, But you know,
she's very she has a very dry sense of humor,
and I think that she is a highly misunderstood person.
And I get that people want to vilify her, and
I get the people want to worship her and all
(15:10):
these things, but you know, she's just a young girl
who was in New York trying to find her way.
And you know, did she make all the best decisions? No,
but she she have to after paying back restitution and
all of that like still beheld like on this trial
that goes on I mean, I think it's totally crazy.
I mean, I think we need to allow people to
(15:31):
learn from their mistakes and to move forward. And if
we people that are still there stoning them after they've
been stoned, then when does that make us like that
truly is bullying? Yeah, So I think yeah, And I
think like three adjectives to describe Anna would be I
think she's definitely loving and people don't really realize that,
(15:55):
super strategic, and funny. The best piece of it I
have ever received from Anna del Vi was I was often,
I've played this word game and I was number one
in the world, and then I was really excited for
a few weeks because I was number two. And she said,
why are you getting so excited at you're number two?
(16:15):
We should always try to be number one. And I
was like, wow, she's right. Why am I jumping up
and down to be number two on my word game?
The Hills? You know, the whole wrath thing with me
on the Hills? Like here's like a news flash one
that is not a real show, Like I don't there
were before we shot, Like usually we were just in
(16:36):
a group, like laughing about our day and stuff like that.
So is there a wrath about how I work and whatever.
I mean, people don't really know me, you know, they
see these things on TV. They just think it's oh,
straight up reality TV. And even with Top Model, like
they didn't have me on that show because I was cute,
twenty and funny, like I was playing the bad guy role,
like that's my role. Like if you see me coming,
(16:59):
you know, that's how people want it to be. And
then if you say, okay, well she can be like that. Yeah,
like you go load in eight hundred people that you've
already sent their seating assignments to and then they can't
find their seat and you have all these fakers and
posers trying to seal seats. So people normally only see
me like out of fashion shot or whatever. Sometimes I
guess if they see me on the street, they're like
(17:20):
WHOA like she, But most of them are really cool
kids and they're just like, oh, I grew up watching
you on TV and thank you so much, Like I
got into PR because of you, or you know, I
work in fashion because of you, or you know, I
did this crazy thing because I read your book and
I like that. So I feel that's been one of
the great gifts of having been on that shows. I
(17:41):
got to open up a whole world for generations, like
for millennials to gen Z kids, they got to take
a look inside of a world they definitely you know,
people don't get to see powerful women in charge and
that aren't like killing each other like a bad Bravo
show or whatever, and see women that are calling shots.
(18:03):
And also like, I'm a kid from the middle of nowhere,
and I think that my presence on those shows was
a way for kids to come into the portal and
say like, hey, there's a place for you here too,
Like come on, children, let's go Spencer Heidi. So I
have never met Spencer. Oh well that's not true. Oh no,
(18:26):
it is true. I don't think I've ever met Spencer
or Heidi because we never shot in any of the
same stuff. But I really became a big fan of
his when he started building these like humming bird hats,
Like I was like, this guy's a genius and I
love him. But when we were shooting the Hills, it
was the last thing. We didn't know if the show
was getting picked up again or not. And I don't
(18:46):
know he was having some I don't know he was
having some issue with Adam da Villa, so he didn't
come to the Hills the end party, which is where
they revealed that, you know, that big moment at the
Hollywood Rosevelt Hotel where it was like the end and
then the city kind of came from there. So I've
never met them, but I'm voting for them, and I'm
happy they're still married. And go Crystals, Go Hammingbirds, Go Spencer.
(19:10):
Top Model. I mean, I think the show has been
a cool thing for young kids that you know, want
to watch what the modeling world looks like. Isn't an
exact replica of how the actual industry works, No, it's not.
It's a television show. So if you just had you know,
twenty ten foot African, Brazilian, Eastern Bloc and Textan girls
(19:35):
that are just a smoke show, it's not going to
make a good Top Model because Top Model is about
taking an average person or like someone who's not in
the industry and turning them into industry, which is a
different thing. I mean, there's plenty of seventeen, eighteen, nineteen,
twenty twenty five year old models walking around, you know,
(19:56):
they get seen in a shopping mall, they go right
to a casting and they're booking, you know, a product campaign.
Top Model is a reality television show, and I think again,
like I was a kid growing up in Syracuse, in
the middle of nowhere. You're a kid growing up when
the industry isn't around you. This is a great way
to take a look inside the industry. And I actually,
(20:17):
I mean, I don't know, Like I know they're doing
a documentary something some show about oh Top Model, But
I mean, I don't know. I had a good experience
on the show, and I liked working with Tyrone, I
liked working with Ken Mack, and I thought it was
a super buttoned up, great organization. And you know, you're
on a reality competition elimination series, like it's not going
(20:39):
to be all wine and roses. I don't know what
to tell you if we don't like your picture, we
don't like your picture, Like it's just not a good photo.
And there are plenty of photos that, you know, somebody
might think are great of them, but if the judges
don't think so, then too bad for you. You know,
I don't think I regret anything that I've said. I
haven't seen anything. You know, there was that notorious episode
I think it was my first stay on Top Model,
(21:01):
where Louise, the British model says that she's gonna beat
me up in a parking up and I was like,
oh my god, this is my first day at work,
Like I didn't realize that physical threats are part of
the job. I might have to call my agent sy
if I can get some more money. I mean, how
crazy is that? As far as being blunt or straight shooter, like,
(21:21):
you know, I think that telling the truth or representing
how you feel just saves everybody a whole lot of time.
You know, you don't have to read between the lines,
it doesn't take extra energy. And yeah, I do. I
think it's fair. I think do I think I've been
judged differently because I'm a woman and i'm conshots. Absolutely
there are words for that power bitch in which and
(21:43):
for a really long time you could google my name
and like I would be like the top sort of
like that next to Anna or whatever. People don't like
women who make their own way. They don't like women
who speak up. They don't like women who aren't, like,
you know, agreeable and sweet. Then when women actually act
(22:03):
like real women and not trained women, people get upset
by that, you know, but if you think about it
from a natural standpoint, who's the most feared animal in
the forest, It's a mom. You know. It's not the dad,
it's the mom. You know, women are ruthless. So what
are we supposed to do, like walk around and make
people feel comfortable? Or should we take our destiny and
(22:25):
run with it? And yeah, I think it would be
much different if I were a man. Imagine if I
were a sports coach, people would be like, oh my god,
she's brought more people to the super Bowl than most people, Like,
we want her to coach our team. But when you're
a woman and you do it, you get villified. So
get ready, children. The most savage thing I ever had
to do in pr Oh, I'm not answering that question.
(22:46):
Your People's Revolution team was famous for, right, Yes, the
People's Rev Team still wears all black. And the reason
that I did it is, you know, kids come from
all different parts of life. So you have some kids
that are showing up and like Lord Piano or Balenciaga
or whatever, and then you have some other kids who
are like, God, I hope I have enough money to
go to t Zara, So I just make everything all
(23:07):
black and non designer. And because we do a lot
of shows, you know a lot of times, you know, well,
first of all, the designers don't have clothes for the
whole staff to wear. So like maybe I and like
a few of my senior team will wear something from
the designer, but everybody else they're in all black, So
we look uniformed. We're very easy to id and you
don't have to spend a ton of money just to
(23:28):
look like you should be there. And wearing all black
is really good for a fashion show, funeral, you name it.
It's a practical color. Black is a practical color. And
when people say to me, why don't you wear color?
I go, excuse me, black is all color? Okay, it's
just the truth. White is no color. Listen, you can't
(23:50):
be in this business for that long and not be
good at what you do and not have a group
of people that really acknowledge what your straints are and
what your talents are and what you're control you know,
and I've raised a generation of people like Tracy Romulus,
who's now the head of Skims. Like Tracy was selling
clothes at Vivian Westwood. My assistant quit that day I
(24:11):
represented Vivian and I walked in and she was having
a bad day, and I was like, why don't you
just quit your job with Vivian and come work for me?
And she did and she built an amazing empire for herself.
Robin Berkeley, who was on kell on Earth to work
with me, you know, for ten years. She as a
result of doing fashion VR, became a hardcore meditator and
yogi and I was like, I don't want to do
(24:32):
this anymore. And she created lived the process and she's
a great friend of mine, and she's running that game
Pia Robio. She has what's the name of the brand,
p is an apl for that the name of it's
a really big brand. She worked with Reformation anyway, she's huge.
I've read like so many kids in the industry, so
(24:52):
you know, I stand behind you know how I ran
my business, and I'm really proud. Michael Keel, who was
an intern with me, you know, I think he's I
think he's at chanell Or Louis now like and he's
running the whole communications team. Mike Matthew Cansel, who was
an assistant in People's Revolution as his own PR company
now like, there's so many people that have come through.
(25:15):
Andrew Machemal, who was on Kell on Earth is my assistant.
He's now you know, Zoe Kravitz and Margot Robbie's stylists. Like,
there's so many people that have come through those doors
and have gone on to have great, great careers as
a result of the opportunity that was given them there.
You know, was it always easy? No? Was it always fun? No?
(25:36):
But did we have integrity and drive and passion and
did we get the job done? Yeah? We did. Of
course I care about the mental health of my employees.
But you know, I'm more of a mentor and a
manager than just a straight boss. Like if you're in
my inner circle and you're working in my office, like
I'm not just giving you a paycheck, Like I'm training
(25:57):
you to have any life that you want. You know.
It's like we're like figure skating coaches. You know, just
because you're tired and you're on the rink at three
o'clock and you don't want to do one more axle,
but you still need to do four more axles. I'm
not a good coach if I tell you like oh boohoo,
go home, Like no, you're gonna you're gonna nail this,
axl Like you're gonna have to do this in a competition.
(26:18):
So my job is not to be everybody's friend or
But of course I care about them, you know, I
care about who they date. I care about what time
they go home. I care about what time they go home,
like you know, I send my staff home during fashion
week after ten o'clock at night in uber Or I
don't want my girls on a subway in New York,
like I just don't n or my guys or whoever,
Like I don't want that to happen. You know, has
(26:38):
every person that's ever worked for me had a great
experience with me? No, And if I had a great
experience with every person that I've hired that promised me
all these things that they knew how to do and
they fell short. No, is that the way life goes. Yes,
you're gonna have some people whose life you touch forever.
You're gonna have some people whose lives you touch for moments,
and you're gonna have some people where it's just not
a good fit. You know, it's just not a good fit.
(27:01):
We thought it was like dating, you know, it's like wah.
We thought this was going to be a great relationship.
Turns out I think you're an idiot. Turns out I
think you're an idiot. Okay, we're not going to be together,
you know, but a lot of times, what I think
employees need to know, and if there are younger kids
listening to the show that are in the workplace, is
when people hire you, they want you to stay. You know,
(27:21):
we're not hiring people to be like, hey, who can
we abuse today? We want this person to come in
and do a great job, and we want them to
grow because if they grow, the office grows. You know,
I am kind of gangster about the topic of how
people come and go into my life. So in my life,
(27:42):
if you're in my inner circle, and that means two
or three people on my team that are with me
a lot, you know, my rules are we don't date clients,
we don't date my best friends. And if either of
those things come up and that's something that you want
to do, you have to come see me about it,
and you have to talk to me about it because
this is going to affect everything. You know. We don't
drink excessively at work. We don't do things that certain
(28:04):
people do, like I have basic rules of like what
my integrity is and how we treat others from the
clients to how we speak to them, to all of
those things. So and then if people want to go,
it's natural. Like at the beginning, it used to really
like crush me. I used to think that, you know,
we would all be together and we were going to
have like the ultimate kickball or softball team, and then
(28:25):
we would just do it and we would change the world.
And some of those people did stay in a tremendously
long period of time, like eight or ten years, which
the turnover in PR is like one to three to four,
if you know. And I have people that stay with
me a super long time, and you know, of course,
you know, I care about them, But when they want
(28:45):
to go, like if they come to me and they
don't do it in a in a gross way, you know,
like steal my clients or try to steal my money,
or be disparaging in conversation that might be inflated to
make themselves seem like they had a different reality or whatever.
That's an issue for me, you know, because it's like
(29:06):
if I let you into my life, like have the
respect that come to me and say, hey, I want
to leave you, and here's why I want to go
get this job. I want to start my own company.
And nine out of ten times, or ninety nine percent
of the time, So that that's happened, and it's been
done with dignity and respect and truth. I've become an
ally for these people and helped set them up, you know.
So it's not like if you leave blah blah, It's like, no, Okay,
(29:30):
this is a cool idea. I get it. I get
your baked. I've been baked a million times, you know,
so I get you want to do this, like, let
me make some phone calls for you. But if they
leave on bad terms, like where they're cheating and they're
doing stuff behind my back, am I gonna make it
easy for them? No? Am I going to become a
human obstacle. No, but I'm not gonna be like, hey,
(29:50):
you came in here, you know you stole for me.
Try to work my whole inner circle, you try to
do all of this stuff. You didn't have the dicknique
because I make it very clear at the beginning of
what's required, and so you already knew that it's not
like you weren't told and then you continue to do it. Well,
don't think you have a mentor in an ally me
because you've turned on me. So but to be clear,
(30:11):
I don't think they're leaving. It's churning on me if
they're leaving and they're taking my clients or they're taking
privileged information, you know, and oh, what's it like working
for her? Like oh, well, you know, you know, it's
like no, like that's not cool. You know, it's just
basic human principles. I like gen Z. I think they're
(30:38):
funny and I'm worried about them, you know, because it's
a tough time. It's tough out there. It's not easy
to be a young kid. And like you know, because
of social media, you know, like these kids are being
inundated with terror, you know, from pedophile videos in Walmart
to you know, some of the images that we're seeing
(30:58):
through news broadcasts and the messaging that's going out globally.
You know, it's like wow, like how do you get
excited about that? You know, what's happening in Sudan like
all of this stuff. It's really heavy because my generation
we didn't have that, Like the biggest disruptor we had
was like MTV, so like Flock of Seagulls is like
(31:20):
you know, or like some punk rock band like The Cure,
But we weren't seeing the kind of stuff and the
amount of stuff and the amount of pressure from you know,
beauty to war or politics to this lack of human rights.
Like it's hard, you know. I want to be friends
with gen Z like I want to help them. I
(31:40):
want to help them navigate the world, because most of
what they're saying is right. Do they do? They get
like a little impractical sometimes about how they want to
do things, But yeah, I like gen Z kids. I
think they're funny and they I think they have some
good ideas. I think they're kidding themselves about what a
work day is and how that's going to look. But
I don't have to worry about that because the industry
(32:02):
that I'm in, it just it just disposes. It's like
a funnel, Like there's this much that comes in because
fashion is alluring. It is exciting to look at. I
mean for some people, you know, but liking clothes and
being in the fashion industry are two different things. It's
like entertainment, like people love to go to the movies,
but they've never been a PA on a Spielberg film.
(32:25):
It's not so fun, you know, when you're getting coffee
at three o'clock in the morning in the middle of Botswana.
That's not what people aud in mind when they got
into the movie business. So what am I doing now?
I'm doing the exact same thing I've been doing my
whole career. I'm still running people's rev I'm developing a
few media projects with Anna and a couple other people,
(32:46):
watching my daughter Ava grow up, which is amazing. She's
almost twenty three. So I think my major accomplishment is
my ability to weather storms and to stay current and
to keep working and doing what I love and reinventing
myself fun moving forward, because I think now at this point,
I don't know, am I really leaving the industry like
(33:07):
I think. I don't know. There are certain people that
do it like till they're like seventies and stuff. I
don't know if I'm that hardcore, but I'm already like
in the beginning to be hardcore section. So I don't know.
I'll either be here or maybe like you know, maybe
kicking it in Italy or Jamaica, which I wouldn't mind either,
just having a more natural kind of off the grid lifestyle.
(33:29):
I'm an extremist and go from the runway to like
roots I think might be good. And then everybody in
Jamaica would just be like, yeah, man, you know her.
She's that crazy fashion lady. She lives up near the
cocon A tree, So maybe that's what'll happen. Anyway. I
just want to give you guys a shout out at
Rogue Energy. Thank you so much for having me. I
(33:50):
hope you guys are killing it. Come see us in
New York for fashion Week. We're trying to grow it up.
What's a love to see you soon, fur,
What is a Rogue Energy. It's Kelly Catron. I'm coming
to you from New York City. Just want to give
you guys a big shout out. I'm happy to be
here today. I'm the founder of People's Revolution and og
in the fashion industry globally, a New York Times bestselling author,
and someone who spent too much time on television. But
a lot of people are going, what's going on in
the world, what's happening with fashion, what's happening on with
(00:31):
digital media? All this stuff. So I've been invited by
Rogue to take you on my perception of what that's like.
Let's check it out for people who don't know. Tell
us the biggest highlights of your long standing career. I mean,
I think that it gets highlight of my long standing careers.
I'm still standing. I mean, I've done so much over
my career. I mean, one of the coolest things that
(00:53):
I've done is it was like a year after September eleventh,
and everyone was very superstitious in New York doing fashion
shows and IMG couldn't even book any of their tents
and no one would do it. So I was like, Okay,
I'll take all the time slots, and we brought all
of our clients up to the tents because we were thinking,
you know, what are we supposed to do? Just like
(01:14):
lay down forever? Like we have to get back to business.
Not that we're being disrespectful to the lives that were lost,
but by applauding life and saying like we're New York
were unstoppable. So that was a pretty big deal. I
don't think anyone's ever done more shows than I did
in that day, and I hope I never have to again.
It was insanity. So people want to know, do I
(01:35):
think if the industry is too soft? I mean, I
think there's too many voices in the industry for sure.
I mean, like if I see one more kid on
Instagram who has nothing to do with fashion, knows nothing
about fashion, and then takes award ceremonies where all of
these fashion people are getting their awe from making the
dresses to getting in there, to the stylist, to the
(01:55):
glam teams, and their contribution to society is to stand
in front of pictures where they haven't even paid for
the content, and then their fashion criticism is like slay fierce.
I don't think so it's like, I don't think so
about you. I also don't think that society has gotten
too soft. I think society is way too hard right now.
I mean, the masses are a dangerous group of people
(02:18):
and we don't really you know, what's happening in society
is really scary. So I don't think there's anything soft
about what's happening in society. I think it's completely oppressive, judgmental,
and dangerous to consumerism because when people do stupid things
across the board, consumers clenched back, and the first thing
(02:42):
to go are goods like fashion, and they're like, do
I really need another pair of black boots? Do I
really need? I don't know. The world's falling apart, and
so it's just very bad for the economy. And I
don't think it's too soft at all. I think it
needs to be softer. Is there a difference between people
being soft and just setting boundaries. Yeah, there's a big
difference between setting boundaries and being stuff. But I don't
(03:04):
think that you know, in the workplace, yeah, you do
have to set some boundaries, but you also have to
understand where you are, Like, you know, if you know
you have a fear of firearms, Like the military is
not the best place to be if you don't like
working long hours. The fashion industry is not the place
to be. So don't kid yourself, like, you know, I
think there's a lot of young, young kids now where
(03:25):
they're just like yeah, like you know, like I put
in my contract that my clients can't call after seven
o'clock at night, Like, well, then don't work in the
entertainment industry because that's not going to happen. The entertainment
industry isn't going to stop, and the fashion industry is
not going to stop to like some kind of Rubik's cube.
Reconfigure your idea of how the industry should work. And
(03:46):
if you are that fierce and you are that great,
then you should create that template and then go make
it happen. I personally have never seen it happen. Okay,
what are we doing next? So they stop today? Been
in an industry for so long? Could today fashion industry
employees survive the way things used to be today's fashion.
If you're really working in the fashion industry, you're really working.
(04:09):
There's nobody. There's people who think they work in the
fashion industry who aren't really working in the fashion industry.
They probably make up the perception of about forty to
fifty percent of who people think work in the fashion industry.
But the real people who work in the fashion industry,
they're not experiencing, you know, any get out of jail
(04:30):
free cards or any you know, working remotely things like that,
like when you're fitting collections, you can't do it on zoom,
Like you have to be on your knees in the
hotel yay, like putting these clothes on models. So the
fashion industry, yeah, it's it's not going to stop to
accommodate people's you know, concept of what's right. Should it
(04:50):
be safe to go to work, Absolutely, Should you be
free from all of the things that we all right
now more than ever, are fighting for. Absolutely. But that
doesn't mean the workload's going to get easier or you know,
you're going to dinner at seven o'clock during fashion week.
That's just not going to happen. So that's the hard,
cold truth. What's the biggest misconception about fashion PR that
(05:14):
people still get wrong. The biggest misconception about fashion PR
is that PR people don't know what they're doing, and
that they just talk too much and fashion PR is
one of the most dynamic parts of PR because we
don't just communicate the message of the brand. We're involved
in the building of the genetics of the brand, from
(05:35):
what should be on the runway to what shouldn't be
on the runway. How is it going to relate to press?
What's the breakdown of a collection? You know you're going
to show sixty looks. You know, forty percent of that
can be the dream pieces that celebrities are going to
wear on the red carpet, But the other sixty percent
better be stuff that we can sell, whether it's bags
or shoes, or tops or bottoms or jackets. But it
(05:57):
has to be sellable because as Michelle goberr Is, one
of the great Kings of music told me, Killie, you
cannot take glory to the bank, so you have to
make money. It's a big industry. It's a huge export
business out of the United States, and yeah, worked on
some of the biggest names in the industry. Who is
(06:17):
a boss and who couldn't keep up? Some of my
favorite designers that I've worked with, Vivian Westwood was Gangster Dress.
She was the most amazing because she never sold off
parts of herself or her company, so she could still
keep speaking about her message, whether it was to a
free Leonard Peltier, who sadly Vivian passed away before Leonard
(06:40):
was released out of Leavenworth. But she was pretty amazing
to work with. Also Poco or Bond. Jeremy Scott was
I mean, I did Paco forever, a Jean provocateur fifteen years.
I know way too much about lingerie and Jeremy was
always super fun, Jeremy Scott. And who couldn't keep well?
(07:01):
What designers can't keep up? You know the ones who
kid themselves, and so there's a lot of those. Do
I think social media has ruined the high fashion market.
Walmart Burkins, I don't know. I mean a Walmart Burkin's
a bad thing. I don't know. Is it bad that
an Oscar winner is on television? I mean, let's face it,
most people, and I'm not saying this in a mean way,
(07:23):
but fashion is tricky. Like most people that are gonna
buy a Walmart at Birkin, a burkin at Walmart? Most
people that buy a burkin at Walmart? Are you know,
are they gonna buy a birken Bergen? I mean, I
guess if they're a collector, you would want if you
collected burkins, you would want to get a Walmart burkin.
And that would be really great because it doesn't cost
(07:45):
that much money for a brand to, you know, knock
itself off. I think is really really smart because they're
even controlling the piracy of the brand, and then they're
giving the piracy that they're creating value by collaborating with
the company who's going to pay for all the marketing
(08:06):
and the pr and so they've already gouged like the lowest.
So are those people on Kenel Street selling these for
four hundred dollars or people at the Bizarre in Istanbul?
You know, they're selling fake burkins at a bizarre and
Istumbul for like twelve hundred dollars. I mean, that's insane.
So I think the fact that they did the burkin
(08:26):
at Walmart it's kind of a gangster move. It's kind
of smooth because it's like, yeah, you want to knock
us off and sell this stuff for twelve hundred dollars,
We're going to sell it for one hundred and ninety
nine dollars or I don't know how much they are
because I have a Kelly bag, and I'm not you know,
I don't wouldn't spend that much money on a bag personally.
But anyway, let's go on to the next question, shall we.
(08:51):
I think social media No, I don't think it's rue
the high market either. I just think that there's a
lot of people on social media talking about the high
market and they really don't know what they're talking about.
So bye. As someone who's been a fashion industry long
enough to see the ebs and flows, do you think
the bubble will pop when it comes to fashion influencers?
Are they a doma dozen? This whole thing about fashion influencers,
(09:16):
I mean, listen, it's all about how do you get traction?
How do you get a message out when people are
really getting a message out, whether they're a celebrity, whether
they're a publicist, whether they're an author, or whether they're
a person on the internet who truly is an influencer.
Like they have something to say, they say it and
as a result, there's a response. There's either or in
(09:37):
the best case, both a big press push and at
the same time a great sell through. So that's what
fashion brands are looking for. So if you can make
noise and get attention for that in a positive way
or a controversial way or whatever. It is great. If
you can do that and at the same time you
can get a click through sell through for the product,
then we have to recognize that you are actually an influencer.
(10:00):
You're influencing the media and you're influencing the sell through.
So if you can do that, is there a place
for you in the fashion industry, or in the food industry,
or in the car industry or in politics. Abso freaking
lutely whoever can figure out the game and if it's
some sort of a new innovation on the game and
they can steer and drive that ship, absolutely it's great.
You are an influencer if you make no real money
(10:23):
from it. You get your clothes somewhere and you come
to fashion Week with some sad boyfriend who's following you
around like a puppy dog. Take your picture. Are you
an influencer? I don't think so. I think not. Sorry
to say, you know, just because you buy stuff at
Louis Vuittont and take your picture on a cobblestone street
(10:44):
in New York City while people are trying to drive
does not make you an influencer. It just makes you
an attention seeker. But if you can do those other
things like create attention through the media and participate in
a sell through, then you are an influencer. It's the
difference between what is this an influencer and what is
not an influencer. Okay, what do you say to models?
(11:08):
You never had a hustle? Models always hustle, So it's
never easy for models. So you don't think, oh, because
they're on Instagram now they're getting attention. Life is easier.
Being a model is a really hard job. It's a
lot of physical work. It's a lot of getting pushed around.
It's a lot of people tearing, you know, clothes on you,
putting makeup on you, twisting your hair, heating your hair up,
(11:29):
changing your nails, grabbing you. And I'm not making this
sound like a sad, pathetic, privileged person. If people really
know how hard models work and in the amount of
rejection they go through and everything, I have the maximum
respect for models. And I also have the maximum respect
for good models because you know what good models do.
(11:49):
They give you good film. And do you know what
good film does. It helps you sell products and get
your brand message out. So to all the good models
who are really models and you know how to model,
I say things, thank you, Anna delbyh what with a
twenty year old Kelly Caatron listen, I'm exactly. I mean
my twenty year old self today I would say, you
(12:10):
know what, just move to Jamaica, grow your own food,
and have a nice time. I mean, you just have
to think about are you really in this game? Because
if you are, it's going to consume you completely. And
I've been consumed by it and I'm happy that I have,
but it also would have been good to just kick
(12:30):
it in Jamaica and not have a lot of money
and and just you know, live a nice life. I mean,
fashion is for the extreme. Prs for the extreme. If
you want to be in the middle, like, don't don't
go into fashion, Anna Delvy. How didn't Anna Telby so
(13:00):
a daughter is twenty two. I woke up one day
She's like, Mommy, your on call her daddy. I was like,
oh no, why am I on call her daddy? And
Anna Delavey was being interviewed by Alex and she said,
you know, why'd you move to New York? And she said, well,
I was watching MTV in the hills and I saw
Kelly Katron and I thought fashion pr could be cool,
and so that's how I found out about Anna. And
(13:22):
a few months later my phone ran and it was
a brand of ours. We had a mutual friend in
common and they said, Anna, I would like to meet you.
And then I thought about Anna and that she was
living on this roof and we had this young designer
that we wanted to launch, and I was thinking, how
are we going to get attention for her? Like if
we did like a pop up agency called Outlaw, it
(13:43):
would probably be cool and we could do it on
your roof and we'll keep it really small. So that's
what we did, and it's probably one of the best
shows I've ever done in my career. I mean, I'd
say it's definitely in the top ten or fifteen. And
then after that, because I'm significantly older than her, you know,
I didn't feel good about leaving her and that apartment,
and I thought, you know, how would I want to
(14:03):
be treated or would want somebody to treat my daughter?
So I invited her to move to my house in
upstate New York, where we've been living for like the
last year. But she just got her own new apartment,
and we're working on a couple of things. So maybe
we're going to launch a brand called nothing, which is
based on her like iconic answer she exited DWTS. But
(14:26):
we're definitely taking a media project out called the Outline
Agency that we're shopping now and a podcast thing called
My Fake Talk Show. So that's what we're up to.
Oh is it? I mean, it's an interesting pairing. The
reason why I think the big joke now is that
I get to be the good guy when I hang
out with Anna instead of like the mean one. Okay,
(14:48):
so when Anna left Dancing with the Stars, you know Anna,
people were upset that she said nothing, But you know,
she's very she has a very dry sense of humor,
and I think that she is a highly misunderstood person.
And I get that people want to vilify her, and
I get the people want to worship her and all
(15:10):
these things, but you know, she's just a young girl
who was in New York trying to find her way.
And you know, did she make all the best decisions? No,
but she she have to after paying back restitution and
all of that like still beheld like on this trial
that goes on I mean, I think it's totally crazy.
I mean, I think we need to allow people to
(15:31):
learn from their mistakes and to move forward. And if
we people that are still there stoning them after they've
been stoned, then when does that make us like that
truly is bullying? Yeah, So I think yeah, And I
think like three adjectives to describe Anna would be I
think she's definitely loving and people don't really realize that,
(15:55):
super strategic, and funny. The best piece of it I
have ever received from Anna del Vi was I was often,
I've played this word game and I was number one
in the world, and then I was really excited for
a few weeks because I was number two. And she said,
why are you getting so excited at you're number two?
(16:15):
We should always try to be number one. And I
was like, wow, she's right. Why am I jumping up
and down to be number two on my word game?
The Hills? You know, the whole wrath thing with me
on the Hills? Like here's like a news flash one
that is not a real show, Like I don't there
were before we shot, Like usually we were just in
(16:36):
a group, like laughing about our day and stuff like that.
So is there a wrath about how I work and whatever.
I mean, people don't really know me, you know, they
see these things on TV. They just think it's oh,
straight up reality TV. And even with Top Model, like
they didn't have me on that show because I was cute,
twenty and funny, like I was playing the bad guy role,
like that's my role. Like if you see me coming,
(16:59):
you know, that's how people want it to be. And
then if you say, okay, well she can be like that. Yeah,
like you go load in eight hundred people that you've
already sent their seating assignments to and then they can't
find their seat and you have all these fakers and
posers trying to seal seats. So people normally only see
me like out of fashion shot or whatever. Sometimes I
guess if they see me on the street, they're like
(17:20):
WHOA like she, But most of them are really cool
kids and they're just like, oh, I grew up watching
you on TV and thank you so much, Like I
got into PR because of you, or you know, I
work in fashion because of you, or you know, I
did this crazy thing because I read your book and
I like that. So I feel that's been one of
the great gifts of having been on that shows. I
(17:41):
got to open up a whole world for generations, like
for millennials to gen Z kids, they got to take
a look inside of a world they definitely you know,
people don't get to see powerful women in charge and
that aren't like killing each other like a bad Bravo
show or whatever, and see women that are calling shots.
(18:03):
And also like, I'm a kid from the middle of nowhere,
and I think that my presence on those shows was
a way for kids to come into the portal and
say like, hey, there's a place for you here too,
Like come on, children, let's go Spencer Heidi. So I
have never met Spencer. Oh well that's not true. Oh no,
(18:26):
it is true. I don't think I've ever met Spencer
or Heidi because we never shot in any of the
same stuff. But I really became a big fan of
his when he started building these like humming bird hats,
Like I was like, this guy's a genius and I
love him. But when we were shooting the Hills, it
was the last thing. We didn't know if the show
was getting picked up again or not. And I don't
(18:46):
know he was having some I don't know he was
having some issue with Adam da Villa, so he didn't
come to the Hills the end party, which is where
they revealed that, you know, that big moment at the
Hollywood Rosevelt Hotel where it was like the end and
then the city kind of came from there. So I've
never met them, but I'm voting for them, and I'm
happy they're still married. And go Crystals, Go Hammingbirds, Go Spencer.
(19:10):
Top Model. I mean, I think the show has been
a cool thing for young kids that you know, want
to watch what the modeling world looks like. Isn't an
exact replica of how the actual industry works, No, it's not.
It's a television show. So if you just had you know,
twenty ten foot African, Brazilian, Eastern Bloc and Textan girls
(19:35):
that are just a smoke show, it's not going to
make a good Top Model because Top Model is about
taking an average person or like someone who's not in
the industry and turning them into industry, which is a
different thing. I mean, there's plenty of seventeen, eighteen, nineteen,
twenty twenty five year old models walking around, you know,
(19:56):
they get seen in a shopping mall, they go right
to a casting and they're booking, you know, a product campaign.
Top Model is a reality television show, and I think again,
like I was a kid growing up in Syracuse, in
the middle of nowhere. You're a kid growing up when
the industry isn't around you. This is a great way
to take a look inside the industry. And I actually,
(20:17):
I mean, I don't know, Like I know they're doing
a documentary something some show about oh Top Model, But
I mean, I don't know. I had a good experience
on the show, and I liked working with Tyrone, I
liked working with Ken Mack, and I thought it was
a super buttoned up, great organization. And you know, you're
on a reality competition elimination series, like it's not going
(20:39):
to be all wine and roses. I don't know what
to tell you if we don't like your picture, we
don't like your picture, Like it's just not a good photo.
And there are plenty of photos that, you know, somebody
might think are great of them, but if the judges
don't think so, then too bad for you. You know,
I don't think I regret anything that I've said. I
haven't seen anything. You know, there was that notorious episode
I think it was my first stay on Top Model,
(21:01):
where Louise, the British model says that she's gonna beat
me up in a parking up and I was like,
oh my god, this is my first day at work,
Like I didn't realize that physical threats are part of
the job. I might have to call my agent sy
if I can get some more money. I mean, how
crazy is that? As far as being blunt or straight shooter, like,
(21:21):
you know, I think that telling the truth or representing
how you feel just saves everybody a whole lot of time.
You know, you don't have to read between the lines,
it doesn't take extra energy. And yeah, I do. I
think it's fair. I think do I think I've been
judged differently because I'm a woman and i'm conshots. Absolutely
there are words for that power bitch in which and
(21:43):
for a really long time you could google my name
and like I would be like the top sort of
like that next to Anna or whatever. People don't like
women who make their own way. They don't like women
who speak up. They don't like women who aren't, like,
you know, agreeable and sweet. Then when women actually act
(22:03):
like real women and not trained women, people get upset
by that, you know, but if you think about it
from a natural standpoint, who's the most feared animal in
the forest, It's a mom. You know. It's not the dad,
it's the mom. You know, women are ruthless. So what
are we supposed to do, like walk around and make
people feel comfortable? Or should we take our destiny and
(22:25):
run with it? And yeah, I think it would be
much different if I were a man. Imagine if I
were a sports coach, people would be like, oh my god,
she's brought more people to the super Bowl than most people, Like,
we want her to coach our team. But when you're
a woman and you do it, you get villified. So
get ready, children. The most savage thing I ever had
to do in pr Oh, I'm not answering that question.
(22:46):
Your People's Revolution team was famous for, right, Yes, the
People's Rev Team still wears all black. And the reason
that I did it is, you know, kids come from
all different parts of life. So you have some kids
that are showing up and like Lord Piano or Balenciaga
or whatever, and then you have some other kids who
are like, God, I hope I have enough money to
go to t Zara, So I just make everything all
(23:07):
black and non designer. And because we do a lot
of shows, you know a lot of times, you know, well,
first of all, the designers don't have clothes for the
whole staff to wear. So like maybe I and like
a few of my senior team will wear something from
the designer, but everybody else they're in all black, So
we look uniformed. We're very easy to id and you
don't have to spend a ton of money just to
(23:28):
look like you should be there. And wearing all black
is really good for a fashion show, funeral, you name it.
It's a practical color. Black is a practical color. And
when people say to me, why don't you wear color?
I go, excuse me, black is all color? Okay, it's
just the truth. White is no color. Listen, you can't
(23:50):
be in this business for that long and not be
good at what you do and not have a group
of people that really acknowledge what your straints are and
what your talents are and what you're control you know,
and I've raised a generation of people like Tracy Romulus,
who's now the head of Skims. Like Tracy was selling
clothes at Vivian Westwood. My assistant quit that day I
(24:11):
represented Vivian and I walked in and she was having
a bad day, and I was like, why don't you
just quit your job with Vivian and come work for me?
And she did and she built an amazing empire for herself.
Robin Berkeley, who was on kell on Earth to work
with me, you know, for ten years. She as a
result of doing fashion VR, became a hardcore meditator and
yogi and I was like, I don't want to do
(24:32):
this anymore. And she created lived the process and she's
a great friend of mine, and she's running that game
Pia Robio. She has what's the name of the brand,
p is an apl for that the name of it's
a really big brand. She worked with Reformation anyway, she's huge.
I've read like so many kids in the industry, so
(24:52):
you know, I stand behind you know how I ran
my business, and I'm really proud. Michael Keel, who was
an intern with me, you know, I think he's I
think he's at chanell Or Louis now like and he's
running the whole communications team. Mike Matthew Cansel, who was
an assistant in People's Revolution as his own PR company
now like, there's so many people that have come through.
(25:15):
Andrew Machemal, who was on Kell on Earth is my assistant.
He's now you know, Zoe Kravitz and Margot Robbie's stylists. Like,
there's so many people that have come through those doors
and have gone on to have great, great careers as
a result of the opportunity that was given them there.
You know, was it always easy? No? Was it always fun? No?
(25:36):
But did we have integrity and drive and passion and
did we get the job done? Yeah? We did. Of
course I care about the mental health of my employees.
But you know, I'm more of a mentor and a
manager than just a straight boss. Like if you're in
my inner circle and you're working in my office, like
I'm not just giving you a paycheck, Like I'm training
(25:57):
you to have any life that you want. You know.
It's like we're like figure skating coaches. You know, just
because you're tired and you're on the rink at three
o'clock and you don't want to do one more axle,
but you still need to do four more axles. I'm
not a good coach if I tell you like oh boohoo,
go home, Like no, you're gonna you're gonna nail this,
axl Like you're gonna have to do this in a competition.
(26:18):
So my job is not to be everybody's friend or
But of course I care about them, you know, I
care about who they date. I care about what time
they go home. I care about what time they go home,
like you know, I send my staff home during fashion
week after ten o'clock at night in uber Or I
don't want my girls on a subway in New York,
like I just don't n or my guys or whoever,
Like I don't want that to happen. You know, has
(26:38):
every person that's ever worked for me had a great
experience with me? No, And if I had a great
experience with every person that I've hired that promised me
all these things that they knew how to do and
they fell short. No, is that the way life goes. Yes,
you're gonna have some people whose life you touch forever.
You're gonna have some people whose lives you touch for moments,
and you're gonna have some people where it's just not
a good fit. You know, it's just not a good fit.
(27:01):
We thought it was like dating, you know, it's like wah.
We thought this was going to be a great relationship.
Turns out I think you're an idiot. Turns out I
think you're an idiot. Okay, we're not going to be together,
you know, but a lot of times, what I think
employees need to know, and if there are younger kids
listening to the show that are in the workplace, is
when people hire you, they want you to stay. You know,
(27:21):
we're not hiring people to be like, hey, who can
we abuse today? We want this person to come in
and do a great job, and we want them to
grow because if they grow, the office grows. You know,
I am kind of gangster about the topic of how
people come and go into my life. So in my life,
(27:42):
if you're in my inner circle, and that means two
or three people on my team that are with me
a lot, you know, my rules are we don't date clients,
we don't date my best friends. And if either of
those things come up and that's something that you want
to do, you have to come see me about it,
and you have to talk to me about it because
this is going to affect everything. You know. We don't
drink excessively at work. We don't do things that certain
(28:04):
people do, like I have basic rules of like what
my integrity is and how we treat others from the
clients to how we speak to them, to all of
those things. So and then if people want to go,
it's natural. Like at the beginning, it used to really
like crush me. I used to think that, you know,
we would all be together and we were going to
have like the ultimate kickball or softball team, and then
(28:25):
we would just do it and we would change the world.
And some of those people did stay in a tremendously
long period of time, like eight or ten years, which
the turnover in PR is like one to three to four,
if you know. And I have people that stay with
me a super long time, and you know, of course,
you know, I care about them, But when they want
(28:45):
to go, like if they come to me and they
don't do it in a in a gross way, you know,
like steal my clients or try to steal my money,
or be disparaging in conversation that might be inflated to
make themselves seem like they had a different reality or whatever.
That's an issue for me, you know, because it's like
(29:06):
if I let you into my life, like have the
respect that come to me and say, hey, I want
to leave you, and here's why I want to go
get this job. I want to start my own company.
And nine out of ten times, or ninety nine percent
of the time, So that that's happened, and it's been
done with dignity and respect and truth. I've become an
ally for these people and helped set them up, you know.
So it's not like if you leave blah blah, It's like, no, Okay,
(29:30):
this is a cool idea. I get it. I get
your baked. I've been baked a million times, you know,
so I get you want to do this, like, let
me make some phone calls for you. But if they
leave on bad terms, like where they're cheating and they're
doing stuff behind my back, am I gonna make it
easy for them? No? Am I going to become a
human obstacle. No, but I'm not gonna be like, hey,
(29:50):
you came in here, you know you stole for me.
Try to work my whole inner circle, you try to
do all of this stuff. You didn't have the dicknique
because I make it very clear at the beginning of
what's required, and so you already knew that it's not
like you weren't told and then you continue to do it. Well,
don't think you have a mentor in an ally me
because you've turned on me. So but to be clear,
(30:11):
I don't think they're leaving. It's churning on me if
they're leaving and they're taking my clients or they're taking
privileged information, you know, and oh, what's it like working
for her? Like oh, well, you know, you know, it's
like no, like that's not cool. You know, it's just
basic human principles. I like gen Z. I think they're
(30:38):
funny and I'm worried about them, you know, because it's
a tough time. It's tough out there. It's not easy
to be a young kid. And like you know, because
of social media, you know, like these kids are being
inundated with terror, you know, from pedophile videos in Walmart
to you know, some of the images that we're seeing
(30:58):
through news broadcasts and the messaging that's going out globally.
You know, it's like wow, like how do you get
excited about that? You know, what's happening in Sudan like
all of this stuff. It's really heavy because my generation
we didn't have that, Like the biggest disruptor we had
was like MTV, so like Flock of Seagulls is like
(31:20):
you know, or like some punk rock band like The Cure,
But we weren't seeing the kind of stuff and the
amount of stuff and the amount of pressure from you know,
beauty to war or politics to this lack of human rights.
Like it's hard, you know. I want to be friends
with gen Z like I want to help them. I
(31:40):
want to help them navigate the world, because most of
what they're saying is right. Do they do? They get
like a little impractical sometimes about how they want to
do things, But yeah, I like gen Z kids. I
think they're funny and they I think they have some
good ideas. I think they're kidding themselves about what a
work day is and how that's going to look. But
I don't have to worry about that because the industry
(32:02):
that I'm in, it just it just disposes. It's like
a funnel, Like there's this much that comes in because
fashion is alluring. It is exciting to look at. I
mean for some people, you know, but liking clothes and
being in the fashion industry are two different things. It's
like entertainment, like people love to go to the movies,
but they've never been a PA on a Spielberg film.
(32:25):
It's not so fun, you know, when you're getting coffee
at three o'clock in the morning in the middle of Botswana.
That's not what people aud in mind when they got
into the movie business. So what am I doing now?
I'm doing the exact same thing I've been doing my
whole career. I'm still running people's rev I'm developing a
few media projects with Anna and a couple other people,
(32:46):
watching my daughter Ava grow up, which is amazing. She's
almost twenty three. So I think my major accomplishment is
my ability to weather storms and to stay current and
to keep working and doing what I love and reinventing
myself fun moving forward, because I think now at this point,
I don't know, am I really leaving the industry like
(33:07):
I think. I don't know. There are certain people that
do it like till they're like seventies and stuff. I
don't know if I'm that hardcore, but I'm already like
in the beginning to be hardcore section. So I don't know.
I'll either be here or maybe like you know, maybe
kicking it in Italy or Jamaica, which I wouldn't mind either,
just having a more natural kind of off the grid lifestyle.
(33:29):
I'm an extremist and go from the runway to like
roots I think might be good. And then everybody in
Jamaica would just be like, yeah, man, you know her.
She's that crazy fashion lady. She lives up near the
cocon A tree, So maybe that's what'll happen. Anyway. I
just want to give you guys a shout out at
Rogue Energy. Thank you so much for having me. I
(33:50):
hope you guys are killing it. Come see us in
New York for fashion Week. We're trying to grow it up.
What's a love to see you soon, fur,
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