February 7, 2025 • 49 mins
Nice doesn't get you far — just ask two of TV's biggest villains, Courtney Robertson from Season 16 of The Bachelor and Parvati Shallow from Season 2 of Traitors. The duo swap stories about their experiences in the reality space and how they've used it to help build their brands to what they are today.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
Hey there, Welcome to Rogue Energy. I'm Courtney Robertson. You
might remember me from the Bachelor Season sixteen. I was
a villain, wah wah. I was also the ring winner,
which made me a little bit of a different breed.
But I love Rogue Energy. Also I was the skinny Dipper. Sorry. Mom. Today,
if you're a fan of reality television, I am joined
(00:32):
by a reality TV icon. You definitely know who this is.
Her voice is very soul treat. It's gonna be a
fun listen for you. She won Survivor. She's been on
four times, so we're gonna dive into that. Also, she
was on season two of Traders. We're gonna talk about
what she feels like about Bachelor contestants and pilot Pete.
And she's currently on Dealer No Deal Island, so we
(00:55):
will catch you up on that. She's a mother, she
is an author. Book comes out in June, which is
Nice Girls Don't Win, and she just launched her podcast,
Nice Girls Don't Win. So today, welcome to Rogue Energy.
Poverty Shallow.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Hi, Courtney, I'm so excited to talk with you. You look
like you're in some kind of pop studio, like you're
gonna do some spice girls for music.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Today? Are we doing that?
Speaker 1 (01:23):
I mean we might playtime. You have playtime on your
new episode, your latest episode with Rob which there is
so much to talk about with you. Can we just
start out by saying that you and I have a
lot in common. I was a reality show villain on
the Bachelor, but you have also been the villain. But
we have both been called black widows.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
I mean it is a badge of honor.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
I think if you are a powerful woman, who's charismatic,
who is attractive, you're gonna be called a black widow probably.
I mean, if you've got some strategic chops. So I say,
own it, run with a be proud, make T shirts.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
I know, but we're going to dive into it all
because it's not always that easy, right, And so I
wanted to talk about rogue energy. I have done a
lot of thinking of like what does rogue energy mean
to me? And I wanted to get you on because
you have paved the way. I mean, yes, I like
(02:23):
to keep things relatable for people who are fans of
you and me and watching reality TV, but I also
in life, and so I wanted to ask you what
rogue energy means to you, because I'm sure there's been
a time like have you always been a little bit naughty,
a little rogue?
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (02:44):
I think so.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
I mean, I grew up in a commune in Florida.
It was run by a female guru who was very charismatic,
very powerful, and as a child, I just remember running
free through the woods like a little heathen with aa
of kids, and I do.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
I mean parts of it, yes, and parts of it
very shadowy. A lot of coercive control, emotional manipulation, abuse lies,
all that kind of stuff, financial abuse, emotional abuse, some
people physically abused things like that. I mean, I dove
into it in my book because as a child I
(03:27):
had a hard time distinguishing what was really happening, because
everything felt normal and fine and good and healthy, and
it was just like this very strange way to be
brought into the world. And then when we left, my
parents packed everything up. We left the commune when I
(03:49):
was nine years old and moved to Atlanta, Georgia, where
the rules for life were very different. So I think
for me, there's a balance or polarity between assimilating into society,
so bringing the kind of energy that will help me
to fit in. And then also having this very different
(04:12):
kind of vibe that comes from how I where I
was born, what I was kind of raised into. That's
like wildly rogue, where I'm just like, oh, well, I'm
just gonna make life work for me. Like I see
the rules of the game. I'll play by the rules
of the game as long as they work for me.
And if it doesn't, I'm going to break the rules
and do.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
It my way. So when you say just to walk
it back a little bit, commune, what is I mean
for anybody listening, Like when you say that? And I
know you talk a lot about this in your book,
so nice girls don't win. You were very vulnerable to
share all this, But what when commune, Like, can you
(04:53):
just kind of tell us a little bit more about that,
like or what that means.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Well, I'm pretty much building one of my house right
now in La. My friends are moving into the back
house because of the fires in La. The fires in
La have displaced a lot of people from their homes
and they've been trying to rent a place and they're
getting out bid by so many people who lost their
homes in the Palisades. So I'm like, come on over,
(05:19):
there's four of them. We're gonna have three kids running around,
two families in this compound for now, you know, for
a short amount of time. But that's like a mini
commune basically what I grew up in. It's like a compound,
But what I grew up in was a full ashrom.
So back in like the seventies and eighties, these were
(05:41):
popping up all over the US, and it was because
the gurus were coming over from India and they were
bringing meditation and yoga and this lifestyle that was vegetarian,
very communal, very people helping each other to live, raise
children together, cook food together, eat together. Was like a
(06:01):
healthy lifestyle with high minded ideals, and everyone was bonded
by this spiritual thread of you know, trying to reach enlightenment,
trying to reach peace and nirvana. And usually they would
be run by one figurehead, like a master teacher or
a guru. So that is where we lived. Ours was
a Hindu commune, but there's lots of different kinds, I guess,
(06:26):
but yeah, the other word for it is ashram. And
I've also jetted off to India and stayed in one
of those for a time after I.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
After I once survived or I did that.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
It's just kind of like there's something about living so
close to the land and people pitching in and supporting
one another, knowing that you could rely on someone. I'm
a single mother, so if I have to go out
one night or go to a meeting, I got a
organized childcare. I can't leave my house after seven pm
if my daughter's with me. But God, there's like a
(07:00):
It's just this feeling of relief and support that you
can get when you're like, oh, there's a family right here.
I can just bounce to the store and pick up
eggs for the morning because there's.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Some people here. Simplicity of nature too, which I believe
in grounding and I love a little woo woo. It
sounds like you could relate. And also something that people
might not know about you is you're also a life coach.
And first of all, thank you for sharing that, because
I just think it's important to share that. And I
think that's like the American dream is to like be unplugged,
(07:34):
but we live in a society we're constantly glued to
our phones. I'm looking right now, and you and I
have so much in common and we're both moms of girls.
That's why I call you p my daughter Paloma. I
would love your mom advice at a later date. But
she's like my mini me.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
And there's so much sass and.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
She's got rogue energy for sure. Her hair is definitely.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
I love little.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Girl's rogue hair. My daughter had the same thing. Her
hair was crazy. And there's a mom who brings her
kid to school. This mom is like the head of
the PTA at my daughter's school, and her little girl
her hair is like a caveman, like has been living
in the woods for like fifteen years. There's twigs and
berries in it, and I am so happy every time
(08:25):
I see this girl.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
It's my favorite thing. I love that.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
I was so I was like really bummed when my
daughter started caring about brushing her hair in the morning.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
I'm like, oh, no, a.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
Rogue, just go rogue.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Well, okay, so let's switch gears. So how I met
you is through Amy Bean, and obviously I was on
The Bachelor. I would love to hear what you think
about Bachelor contestants versus like you went on Survivor you
want it. I mean that's major and I don't know
how you feel about being called a reality TV icon,
but you are so I would love to hear your
(09:03):
thoughts and feelings on that and how you navigate that,
because bringing it back to money, I have been called
the Michael Jordan of The Bachelor and how I played
the game, and which it is a game, but there
is love involved and there's a realness. But the difference
between you and me, if I might say, is that
you went on shows not for love, but you won them.
(09:23):
So there's like a similar mentality that we have. I
was thinking about a song on my way over to
the studio to record, and I was thinking like birds
of a feather, like we have a common thread between
you and I.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Well, and first of all, before we dive into The
Bachelor and stuff, you set us up your podcast Genius,
because we Amy and I could not have started our
podcast without you. You're so smart and so savvy in
this world of podcasting, and your expertise that you shared
with us was so generous and really kind and support
(10:00):
and I appreciate that so much because I think women
are sort of set up to be competitors, like society
kind of hits us against each other. On The Bachelor,
you got twenty women competing for one man, So for
you to first of all be label at the villain
and the black widow, I'm like, I take an issue
(10:20):
with that because you're so kind and so generous, but
I think that doesn't work hard.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
I a swallow girl and I was a ring winner
is what they say, like winner, which I hate that label.
And my book was called I Didn't come here to
make friends, which is so similar to nice girls don't
win and that mentality. But like there's so many elements
that goes into reality TV and production, and our common
(10:46):
thread that brought us together was Amy Bean. Yeah. You
know you talked about manipulation and growing up and that
kind of stuff. So I believe nature and nurture versus nurture,
like what you were raised with also formed you and
my mom. I'll get into that at another time, But
(11:07):
I'm like a survivor, you know, Like I had, like
I moved to LA when I was nineteen and had
to like Thomas Guide. This was before internet, and like
I'd have to go on my phone and or not
my phone, I'd have to get my Thomas Guide at
or go to map quest and write my directions. I'm
like I'm nineteen living in Los Angeles, Like I've always
(11:28):
had this like survivor, like gotta protect myself as a woman.
Speaker 4 (11:33):
So anyway, So going back to how we.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Met, amy Bean was a producer. It is a massive producer.
That's your co host of Nice Girls Don't Win and
being behind the scenes in reality TV. There are so
many movie parts, like you can watch a show but
you don't know what's going on in the dynamics and
talking about manipulation. So Amy Bean is my best friend.
(11:55):
She was with me on The Bachelor, and I always
say any friend of her as a friend of mine
because she doesn't keep everybody in her life. Everybody falls
in love with her as a producer. And when she
told me about you, truthfully, that's when I first learned
about you. Sorry, not sorry, I'm so offended, Courtney, But
(12:17):
I think that makes it a little bit more natural
for us. Like I'm not fam girling over you, but
I know you're a friend of Amy Bean's who's a
reality TV producer icon, but you have done a lot
in this space, so.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Yes, and I do, like my.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
I have so much respect and compassion for you and
what you share about your mom and then moving out
and being on your own in LA because it does
make you so gritty and it makes you have to realize,
like you have to rely on yourself if you want
to succeed in the world. And I think striking out
(12:58):
on your own and doing that and then being cast
because at that time with the Thomas Guides, I had
a roommate.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Who was doing that.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
You remember it.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Yes, it's a spiral bound For those of you who
don't know what a Thomas Guide is, it is a
spiral bound map that's like a book.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
It's like a.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Three hundred page It's humongous, and it has the streets
like cross sections cut out of the streets. She would
write notes in it.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Over I watched her. I was like, no, how are
you using this thing.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
I'm like, I would just rather just be lost and
drive around for two hours.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
I did that.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
I've done that.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
I got lost in the four or five and I
was like, Dad. I called him.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
I was like, can you pull up MapQuest. I think
I'm an Orange County and I just left downtown l A.
And he's like, what do you see And I'm like,
I don't know Brookhurse. He's like, yeah, you're in Newport.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
You're a Newport Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
So this is how we learn when we're young. And
that's why I always say, just start before you're ready.
Put yourself out. And when you were here in La,
I was also here in La because around that same
time was when they were doing a lot of recruiting
for Survivor, and they were probably doing a lot of
recruiting for The Badger too, for casting where they were
(14:12):
pulling people who they would just meet at the mall
or on the street.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Or they asked me if I would do what was
it not survivor what's the other one? The travel one?
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Amazing Race?
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Yes, And they were like, oh my god, maybe we
should do Race together.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
We would both be so low.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Our survival guides with like our Survivor skills on like navigating.
I think that's so interesting. Privty is navigating the production
side of being on a show and that and I
hate to say manipulation, but I got a lot of
what I wanted out of The Bachelor because I took
no shit. You know. There were times where I pushed
(14:53):
to the limit and I was like this is not okay,
Like I'm not getting paid to be here at least
you won money. Can you remind me how much you
want one? On Survivor?
Speaker 4 (15:01):
At least you got a cash prize.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Survivor is a million dollars.
Speaker 4 (15:07):
Yeah after tax Yeah, uncle Sam, it.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Was like six hundred grand after taxas and I was
twenty five years old.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
What do you do?
Speaker 4 (15:18):
What do you do?
Speaker 1 (15:19):
So? What does that look like when you get that check?
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Well, I wrote the story in my book.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Okay, so we'll I want to hear that you got it.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
I'll send you a copy of the book because I
have the pre corrected I have the proofs.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
The un corrected.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Yeah, I'm like, what are these words?
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Yeah, you're the talent girl.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Yeah, I have that. I'll send you a copy. See
you can read it.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
But yeah, it was such a wild time because I
was working as a waitress, bartender, boxer when I was
first cast on Survivor and when I came back, because
I was doing bottle service in Hollywood at the nightclubs.
My first table that I dropped a bottle at was
(16:05):
Leonardo DiCaprio and all of his friends.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
We were romping around at the same time. Why didn't
we connect and be besties?
Speaker 4 (16:13):
But now here we are what was about Leo. He
was a smoker.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
I saw him smoking a heater at after party for
the Oscars, where I meant a couple actors ended up dating.
But so you were doing that was what was he nice?
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Leo was getting around at the time too. There's a
girl on Traders with me who had some Leo stories
and I'm just going to leave it at that. But
he was super nice, Like I was surprised. He was
just like really respectful and kind. And I was wearing
a see through gold belly dancing skirt, a black bra,
(16:52):
these platform leather knee high boots that were like six
inch platforms, and a hair piece, like a huge hair
so I looked like a fembot from Awesome Powers. And
I was towering over everyone, just carrying around bottles of
dom and making thousands of dollars. But I would spend
it just as quick as I would make it. So
(17:12):
when I won Survivor.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
About the rent and all it, it's so, oh my god,
everything and it's.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Just gotten crazier.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Yeah, But I mean at that time, I didn't know
how to manage money either. I've only recently started learning
that as as a single mother.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
I'm like I need to.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Get be financially responsible and make good decisions. But at
that time I was not there. I was partying with
you know, everybody. But that story is in my book
and it was wild because when they handed me the check,
I had like negative sixty dollars.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
In my bank account.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
I've always I've had of moments. I call my dad,
I'm like, can you just put one hundred bucks in
my I'm in the negatives, which is, by the way,
can we talk about how stressful that it is not feeling?
But also what I'm hearing is that you've always had
a strong work ethic. I mean, it's not easy to
go put that on, and you have learned to. I've
(18:07):
been in the nightclub scene in La so I was
next to justin Timberlakes Booth quite often. And for you
rip Bob Saggat, he was always in the clubs. I
mean a little bit gross to name drop, but for
the listeners just to paint a picture. This was when
I would go out with Spencer Pratt and Baroti Jenner
(18:28):
and gosh, I don't know the year. I'm not good.
It's kind of stuff. But like they wanted models there
so they would like recruit Ford models to come and
just like dance and have fun and it was a
great time. But I also was there to work. And
it sounds like you've always had good work ethic and
that to me, and I'll you'll hear this when I
(18:51):
talk about what rogue goes means to me, is like
basically you think about in the army like when he
grows rogue. But I've always wanted to pave my own
way and work hard and be fresh and have fun
doing it. So the fact that you were working and
how old were you at that time? If you five
(19:14):
when I won, what a life launch for you?
Speaker 3 (19:18):
It was wild?
Speaker 4 (19:20):
Why it's not like putting that job? Or are you
still doing it?
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Do you have?
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Honestly, I wish I still had it, and I wish
I still had those boots. They were like Frankenstein boots
but so cool. I could have worn them to pride.
I'm really sad, like I've moved so many times, I
haven't been I'm more of a gipsy, so I kind
of the rogue energy is very strong in me. I
(19:47):
have always wanted to make my own money. I really
value freedom and being able to do what I want
to do what speaks to me at the time. So
finding ways to make money that I like has been
really important to me, and i've it's been a very
nonlinear path. And it's so different because my parents my
mom as an electrical engineer was she's retired now and
(20:10):
my dad was a high school math teacher, so very consistent,
very typical, standard kind of linear paths. And as I'm
move in through the world, they're like, oh, goold, you're
gonna what you do? Reality television?
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Is that a thing?
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Like you just have to be willing to fall flat
on your face and hope for the best. And that's
kind of how I operate. It's just like, Oh, this
sounds like an adventure. This sounds really.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
Fun, and I could make a million dollars. Why would
I say no to that.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
I might look totally stupid and embarrass myself on international television,
but there's still a chance to have a great time
and make a ton of cash.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
So yes, it is my answer.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Well, I can't wait to read that chapter in your
book because I remember the first big check I made.
I made it for a modeling gig. I made thirty
thousand dollars for a Clarsonic gag that ad that.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Was like, I remember the Clarensonic too. Yeah, I haven't
throwbacks all day.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
My first big check, I just blew. I had nobody
helping me. I moved when I was in nineteen grand
twenty and I was making all this money. I was
modeling for Abercrombie at the time and going to these
clubs and getting my Thomas Guide out, and I was like,
the first thing I did was I went and bought
like a Louis Vuitton person.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
You're like, I have made it, I've arrived.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
I still have it. I can't part with it. So Traders,
which I am low key campaigning for, I.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Feel like you should do it.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
I loved your episode with Amy talking to Boston Rob
and the thing that makes you you're just a natural
first of all. It seems like it's just ingrained in you,
and not everybody has that. And so my point in
being here today is to help. When I started podcasting
was to just like help people and help inspire people
to live their best lives and take those chances, because.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
I think a lot of people get stuck.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
They're like, I don't know where this is going to lead,
and they want to see so much farther down the
path than they can see, and they want assurance or
certainty that something's going to work out or lead them
somewhere good. And for me, I don't think that's necessary
or helpful.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
Really.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
I think we want to hold a vision for our
lives and really know what we stand for and what
we value, like I value love, yeah, love, adventure, courage, generosity.
You know you stand for those things, and then you
just say yes to things that align with those values
and your life will work out. It will unfold very
(22:52):
beautifully the more present you are in the moment. So
that's why I think like these are these shows are cool.
Traders is cool like that because things unfold so fast,
and I'm sure you had this experience with The Bachelor
where you just had to be ready to respond in
the moment to maybe some change in circumstance that was unexpected.
(23:13):
And the people that can make those changes and adapt
and be present in the moment, those are the ones
that do well in the shows, and the ones that
are rigid or too fixed and they can't make the
adjustment they get voted out. They got But it's the
same thing that I think happens in life. It just
is sort of like a microcosm of the bigger picture
(23:37):
of life.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Gosh, can you life coach me?
Speaker 2 (23:41):
And then yeah, ever, I mean that's what we're doing here.
Speaker 4 (23:45):
Yeah, right seriously.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
And I just remember being a little lost in La
It was so lonely. I used to go to the
grove and bump up against people just to feel connection.
And I was so into getting books. It was when
bookstores still a thing. I'd go to that Barnes and
Noble and it would be like, what's the latest and greatest.
And Luckily, like I feel like that comes with living
in La too. There's a lot of like I call
(24:08):
it like a vortex, Like I feel like people go
there to go rogue a little bit, to follow their
dreams and to step outside of the box. And I've
always been into personal development. Life Bolt was I could
list the name of books that I have read, like,
I mean, I Kert Toldy and I'm sure you've dove
(24:29):
into that as well. But anyway, so I want to
talk about traders switching gears again. So how is Pilot Pete?
Speaker 2 (24:41):
I think straight in Peter was so annoying to me
in the game, and.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
How it's like now you know me and I was
on The Bachelor, but like there is this diconomy of
like Survivor, and you see that on this season's Traders,
like with Boston Rob and the Survivors and the Wes
and all this kind of stuff. But when you went
on got the offer to go on Traders, how did
you feel about it? I mean you had to leave
for what like a couple of weeks well as a trader,
(25:11):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Yes, Okay, So just just to kind of elaborate on
why Peter was so annoying is because he was so
sweet and he was fun to talk to, but he
was such a trader hunter and like such a bloodhounding,
kept his nose to the to the ground every day
and he was always on me and he was always
fighting for this cause of good and morality and justice,
(25:33):
which drove me nuts because I was like, it's called Traders, Peter,
like live a little be a trader, come on. So
that was that was annoying. But I like him as
a person, but he was he was yeah not I
heard he play the game. How good he was in
the game. Yeah, he was really good.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
I'm because to me, he just kind of seems like
this Bambat. He would have been in the Bambies if
it was season three.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
He's pretty sharp.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
He reminds me of Dylan Efron Aileen, I hope he
is Dylan.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
He's a cutie pie.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
He's super cute. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
And so when they called me to play, my friend
Suri had played the first season and she won. She's
from Survivor, and they had asked me to do the
first season, but I was going through divorce and it
wasn't finalized, so I said no. I was like, call me,
but call me again because it sounds really fun. Mafia
is such a fun game. It's so stressful, but like
(26:33):
really fun. I was like, also Alan Cummings hosting it.
I have to do it because I've been obsessed with
him since Romey and Michelle's high school reunion. And the
second season they called me to go play and I
was still not really ready. I was in the middle
of writing my book. I'd been doing a lot of therapy,
therapeutic work to help me heal from the past. And
(26:58):
I was like, Oh, I don't know, next season, let
me do it next season.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
They're like, no, we really want you for season two.
I got to do it.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
And I was like, guys, please just give me a year.
I'll be ready to rock.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
Like I'm not my.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Fullest the talent. Yeah, you want to be your best self.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Yes, I'm like, I'm just not. Like I still felt
very kind of shaky and vulnerable from having come out
of really challenging divorce and hard situation and trying to life.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Because I think going back to real life and being realgue,
I've had some many hard breakups where I've had to
break up with people and I can't imagine unringing that bell,
so so sorry.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
When it's necessary, you gotta do it.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
And though I'll stay in things that just serve for
the kids or this or that, and like that's that's
a big deal.
Speaker 4 (27:51):
Poverty pee.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
And I've found that it's if you have if there's
a dynamic in the home that's emotionally for aught and negative,
it's not best for the kids to stay together. It's
best for the kids, for the mom, for the parents
to be happy. So if that means separating and living
(28:14):
on your own independently and working out some kind of
custody arrangement so that you can see your kid and
you'd be happy, that is the healthiest thing to do
in my opinion, for I agree.
Speaker 4 (28:25):
An unpopular opinion.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
But here's the other thing, and that's what I love
about you so much, pe is that you've paved your
own way and it inspires people and it helps people.
It's never too late. So go back to I'm sorry
to circle back on that story. So you're like, no,
how did they talk you into going onto traders?
Speaker 3 (28:45):
I honestly don't know.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
I was like, I, okay, it's Sharon. It's Sharon Bong
who's she's now the head of reality all reality programming
it NBC and Peacock. She was a friend of mine
from CBS Survivor Days and she moved from CBS over
to Peacock and NBC and she was like she called
me and she's just like, you got to do this.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
We need you. This is your cast.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
And I think it's because they wanted to have me
and Sandra on together because at the time, Sandra and
I were having a conflict and they wanted that.
Speaker 4 (29:21):
I love that. I think girls don't win.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
So Sharon won in the end.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
But she always well, anytime Sharon asked me to do something,
I'm like, all right, I'll be there.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
And you did it.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Yeah, and I did it, and I'm really grateful I
did it.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
Was hard.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Traders is the hardest game I've ever played. And that's
saying a lot because now I've done Survivor five times,
but Traders is harder than surviver.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
I mean, girl, that's insane. And then did you keep
your cloak? The fans need to know.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
Oh I wish no, that was on loan.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
I think they're using the same cloaks. Oh gosh, those
clothes they're one size fits all. They just get passed
down from Trader to trader. The Traders.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
I would love to talk about sexuality maybe another time,
but uh, with cloaks. Yeah, dungeons book you talk about
there's a lot you guys in there because Amy Bean
tease me and you know, dress up and that kind
of stuff.
Speaker 4 (30:24):
So but that's not.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
The Yeah, we did have a good chat about that.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
We were doing like a dry rod and we're so
like popped or nip blah. I mean, if you guys
could be a fly on the wall, I love you.
Speaker 4 (30:39):
I can relate to you.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
So sorry.
Speaker 4 (30:43):
I got the Church giggles so much.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
So I'm gonna go back and watch your season I'm
fangirling right now, So deal are no Deal. That's how
we connected through Amy Bean, who is like orbiting talk
about like beam me up, Scottie. I just love her energy.
I love of villains. I have reached out to so
many villains from other shows just to help with the
blowback because you make it look so easy, but it
(31:09):
isn't always easy to have that online hate and social
media wasn't a thing when I went on the Bachelor.
But so for you, let's go to deal or no deal?
Speaker 4 (31:17):
Because have you.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Always just been a prize winner? I mean you keep
getting asked to do these shows and you dominate them.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
I've only I'm.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
Only a couple episodes in which also airs on I believe.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Tuesdays Tuesdays at nine pm on NBC.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
Awesome. Well, so I've watching you look so pretty. It
looks so natural all the time. Obviously are a gorgeous girl.
I just have to ask, like from a viewer watching, like,
do you even think about that when you're on the show?
Do you are you? Like? I mean, you just look
stunning watching and you're in a swimsuit. That makes you
vulnerable anyway to be like on national television in a swimsuit. Like, well,
(31:59):
I've been doing Survivors since I was twenty three.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
I've like really cut my teeth, I am, so I've
I've worked hard to develop a healthy comfortability and friendship
with my body, and I've done that through exposure therapy,
like being out, putting myself out there for public consumption,
(32:24):
like everyone, to everyone to observe and judge since I
was twenty three years old. And I really just I
really just love being on a beach.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
It's where I feel most at home and most myself.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
And then I just I really let it go.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
The I don't think about what I look like when
I'm playing these games, because well.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
You do kind of transition into each role you've played.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
Well, I just get so into the game, I'm like, oh,
but with Traders, I will say with I took the
challenge of stepping into the fashion element of that show
very seriously because I knew I would be in the
presence of Alan Cumming and I really wanted to.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Show up.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
So like, clothes I've never really cared about because Survivor
you don't even wear clothes ever, You just wear your underwear.
Now they don't even let people wear bathing suits, so
I never really thought about it, but it was a
unique challenge to get all that wardrobe together for Traders,
and I chose.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
I chose a fashion role model.
Speaker 4 (33:43):
Okay, who was Chock.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Blair Waldorf from Gossip Girl. She was my role model
and my character role model as well, because I was like, Oh,
she's kind of bitchy, but she's powerful. But she's sort
of understated, but she's assertive, she's got some thing.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
You know, you really swept into a character I did. Yeah,
that in your sweater kind of reminds me of Harry
Potter right now, but I love it. Hello Famura Lord
v actually runner. So that's really interesting because I'm watching
(34:21):
like I would love to go on the show, and
I was like, what would my vibe like? I think
that's what makes the show so in stunning to watch.
It's like you probably grew up playing clue.
Speaker 4 (34:29):
It's like you can.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Find me in the den, you know, yes, plotting somebody's murder.
You know.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
I lost those the murder mystery games in high school
that I played where my friends would give us a
character and we would dress up, and I was always
given the character of the glamorous whoever who was always
the murderer. So I would wear these beaded gowns to
someone's house. I have a long since skinny cigarette.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
It's so fun.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
That part of it is makes it even extra fun
to play.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
I still want that cloak. I'm an Amazon Prime New one.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
Yeah, they're not the same.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
I will say my uncle, my aunt and uncle Bob
and Susan Shallow who live in golf Shores. Oh, they
would be so over the moon if we called them.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
They like, I know, I would love to get naughty
with you sometimes and just like cold call people.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
We should prank call some peeps.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
What about Boston Rob, I feel like he would know.
Does Star six nine still work?
Speaker 3 (35:34):
I mean, that's nice test it out.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
But anyway, they sent me a cloak from Amazon, and
it's just not the same material because the trader's cloaks
are very heavy.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
It looks very sick. It was it freezing there by
the way, freezing cold, so cold. But you're like I
was on Survivor, so you could probably hang with that.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
No, the Survivor's warm.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Oh yeah, you like your beach, Yeah, it's warm and
it's not icy cold.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
It was really cold. In Scotland. I was like, oh god,
I'm nervous. I brought so many wool coats, floor length woolcoats.
I was like, why did I pack so many of these?
Speaker 1 (36:11):
How many bags did you bring on the path too?
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Yeah, I only brought to Phaedra had like five or six.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
So do you keep in touch with a lot of
the people from Traders?
Speaker 3 (36:26):
Some of them?
Speaker 2 (36:27):
I mean, uh, Dan still Dan and I chat, Phaedra
and I Janelle occasionally, trishall yeah, some of them.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
MJ's here.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
I haven't seen her, but yeah, I think we're all
friendly and there is a group chat. So when I
left to go play Australian Survivor, the cast was leaked
and the whole Traders group chat was like go get them.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
I'm like really supportive.
Speaker 4 (36:51):
It was cute.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
Well, and obviously I was a fie on the wall.
When you did Boston Rob, you know on Girls Don't Win.
If you haven't listened to it, go check it out.
I was like, oh my god, he eliminated Bob the
drag Queen. I woke up in the moment watch the
latest episode. He's an icon. So Parverty, you have been
on multiple game shows. How do you decide which ones
(37:18):
to do. I would love to hear what you know
the next five years looks for you. You were a
Michael Jordan of reality TV game shows.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
So wait, that's you.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
You're a Michael Jordan basketball player. Larry Bird is he
still doing this thing?
Speaker 1 (37:36):
We've got to be the same age Charles Barkley. Let's
get him on the podcast.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Oh my god, we're like really aging ourselves right out.
I just look I have. I've come to a place
in life where all I want to do is things
that feel aligned and exciting and fun and pay me
(38:01):
a lot of money, or where I could win a
lot of money.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
That's so great too.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
It's like, oh, let me do this really amazing, super
fun thing where I can be myself in different in
different ways. Because these game shows are cool because they
let us play, and I think as adults we don't
get a chance to play very often. There's so many responsibilities,
(38:26):
especially when you have children, and you have to be
the one who's making the hard choices and doing the
right thing and being responsible all the time. And I
think life can get really repetitive and dull if we
lean too much on responsibility and obligation. So when I
get a call to do a game show like Dealer,
Nodio Island or Traders or Australian Survivor, I'm like, yes,
(38:50):
that is well. First, I consider who's the host, because
I love Joe Meganello, I love Alan Comming, and then
Survivor Australia. Australian Survivor is so well done, and it
kind of is similar to old school American Survivor, where
the way that they shoot it and the way the
(39:11):
game is played is sort of more classic, and I'm like,
I want to do that. So I consider what is
the game, who's hosting it, does it sound fun, how
much money can I win? And what I might be
able to crush.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
Yeah, and also.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
I just I don't want to live in a bunk
bed with a bunch of crazy people. I don't want
to be around a bunch of people that are drunk
and screaming, So those kind of shows are out. I
want adventure, and I want the possibility to make a
lot of money, and I want great hosts, and I
also want to learn something new, like I would do
(39:48):
Dancing with the Stars because I would really want to
just put myself into a pressure cooker container where I
know nothing and I have to learn something really skilled
in a short amount of time. And it's like I
love the intensity of that.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
Wow, that that makes sense. That makes a lot of sense.
So how many game shows do you typically do a year?
And what can we expect moving forward?
Speaker 3 (40:15):
Girl? This is this is like a new thing for me.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
I'm not doing game shows multiple times a year because
I have a plan. I don't have a plan. I
don't have a five year plan. When you're like, what's
five years?
Speaker 3 (40:28):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (40:33):
These are tough questions.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
These are like hard hitting, hard you're.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
Asking the hard hitting journalism questions. You're like, god, yeah,
I don't know. I honestly, it.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
Was like, you know, she's like harvedy, what do you
do in between game shows? I always like to ask
people like what do you do to decompress? Or that
kind of stuff? But what's the real real Like what
do you do you do?
Speaker 4 (41:01):
Yoga?
Speaker 1 (41:01):
Lot? You just seem so zen to me, So what
are you doing between I mean obviously you're life coaching, so.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
Nice court me.
Speaker 4 (41:10):
You're mining hard.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
You've been writing a book, which what took you two
years and.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
A half years? Two and a half years to write
the book. That was a really deep soul excavation process
and I was doing at the time, I was really
focusing on healing, so I was going to acupuncture, somatic therapy,
I was doing this type of holotropic breathwork called growth
(41:37):
that was these three hour kind of intensive breathwork experiences
over a few days at a time, those kind of things.
I was just like really seeking out anything that could
help me move through old fear, old stuff that was
in my stuck in my body that I didn't want
(41:58):
to keep there anymore. I know that was really helpful.
So now I've moved into a new phase. The book
is done. I really do feel like I have created
a lot of strength in my nervous system so I
can handle life at a bigger at a faster pace,
and on a bigger scale. So I'm doing this podcast
now with Amy Nice Girls Don't Win that you thank
(42:18):
God helped us launch Courtney, and.
Speaker 3 (42:20):
I'm going to start working on a new book project.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
This is in my brain because I just met with
my writing coach, writing teacher who lives in New York City.
Speaker 3 (42:30):
Her name is Sarah Harrington.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
If anyone is thinking about taking on a writing project,
or wanting to do classes. She offers them online, and
she's brilliant because she incorporates mindfulness and yoga into the
writing as well, so it's really embodied and the writing
comes out so much better when you're writing from an
embodied place rather than just from your head. She's amazing.
(42:53):
So I just met with her and I'm going to
start working on a new project. We'll start flushing that
out in the next month, and who knows, if I
get asked to do another game show, I'll probably consider that.
Speaker 4 (43:06):
I would love to play with you come.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
On, which we've I think we should pitch ourselves for Amazing, right.
I think we would lose instantly, just because I have
no direction and it seems like it takes you a
long time to read a map. But we should give
it a go.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
Anyway called Thomas Guide. We would not win that competition.
I love her old school vibes.
Speaker 4 (43:30):
I really too.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
All right, before we wrap up, I want to talk
about nice Girls Don't Win. Your book that is coming out,
and it's an eye opening memoir about survival, trauma and healing.
One of your just an icon, as I've said, But
how does that transition from your reality TV World into
(43:53):
your personal stories.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
I am a firm believer, and nothing is separated. Everything
is can So when I was writing the book, I
was pulling stories from my life and considering the experiences
that I had in life, and the things that were
holding me back were the times when I was mostly
(44:16):
focused on people liking me, so performing for other people's
validation or approval, and disregarding what my heart was telling
me to do or my intuition and people pleasing so
like putting other people's emotional needs ahead of mine, or
trying to take care of other people's emotional needs, and
(44:38):
not connecting with my own wants or desires, or allowing
myself to even take up space. So as I wrote
the book, I noticed moments in the game shows that
I played where I did that as well, pulled some
of that out for you know, people to I want
with this book. I want people to read it to
(44:59):
relate to it in their own lives, because everything that
I have done, I think I made it relatable in
a way. Even though I've had these experiences that are
so unique and rare, like playing Survivor or Traders or
Dealer Nodeal Island, there are still elements of it where
(45:20):
you would have the same experience in your job or
in your marriage or in your relationship. And I think
the way that I was writing it was for people
who are going to read this, who need some who
are feeling maybe stuck in their lives, not really understanding
themselves or not prioritizing or putting themselves first, feeling a
(45:42):
little stuck, not sure what to do or how to
move beyond a situation that's not working for them anymore,
and then showing them the way through the way I
got through it, and then showing them that there is
another side and on the other side of these sticky
situations is so much freedom, so much joy, so much light,
(46:03):
and so many more opportunities and possibilities for really cool
stuff to happen in your life and more aligned friendships
and relationships and jobs and all of that. But you
really do have to bet on yourself to get there.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
Well, I'd take that bet.
Speaker 4 (46:22):
Yeah, girl, so much for sharing that with us.
Speaker 1 (46:25):
You just answered my last question, which is like, what
would you say to somebody who might be feeling a
little stuck or I mean, you're just such a natural.
Speaker 3 (46:34):
Oh oh, thanks, corn I I love you.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
Thank you so much. So Nice Girls Don't Win. You
have new episodes coming out, can you give us a
little teaser as what to expect. It's available on all platforms.
She was so funny before we started recording. She's like
all these cores we didn't have cords on survivor.
Speaker 3 (46:52):
So many courts.
Speaker 2 (46:54):
Oh my god, Like you should see me, I just
bundling it all up in my arms, like schlepping it around.
I think that's the thing that people don't see about me.
They see the polished kind of me on the screen,
But oh my god, the mess that's happening before I
sit down is really it's pretty wild. But I think
I have refined my ability to stay home even when
(47:17):
there's chaos happening all over the place. And that's sort
of what Nice Girls Don't Win is Right now. The
podcast is Amy and I kind of figuring it out.
We're both moms, we are both from this television world,
so we're going to be talking to really interesting guests
from all walks of life who can give us some
(47:38):
of their expertise so we don't have to think of
everything ourselves because it's just too hard. I want the
cliffs notes, I want the synopsis of how to Win
at Life, and people are going to help us with that.
It is a work in progress. So we're setting up
a studio now.
Speaker 1 (47:53):
We did.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
We launched our first episode and it was.
Speaker 3 (47:55):
A wild ride.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
So if you want an adventure, tune into that for
first episode with Boston Rob And yeah, we're setting up
in a studio, so the camera element, the video element
will be a little bit higher quality, and Amy and
I will be in the same room and we'll have
some amazing guests on and it's just gonna be fun.
It's really kind of the point of it is just
(48:17):
to have a blast.
Speaker 1 (48:19):
Thank you so much for joining Rogue Energy Party. We
follow Nice Girls Don't Win. It's available wherever you listen
to your podcasts and pre order Nice Girls Don't Win.
I can't wait to devour it. And Deal or No
Deal Island, can you give us a teaser?
Speaker 2 (48:39):
Dealer No Deal Island is heating up.
Speaker 3 (48:42):
We had a show bance.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
There's a lot of things that are yet to come,
and it's gonna be faster and more furious from here.
And the end of this game exploded my brain. I've
never seen anything like it in my entire life, so
I say get into the show now so that you
can be a part of this journey in real time
(49:06):
as this show comes to a close, because you will
be blown away.
Speaker 3 (49:10):
You'll like, it's miraculous what happens at the end of
this game.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
Okay, I'm gonna go devour it. I'm going to go
binge it. Well, Pete, thank you so much for the
little sweet Pete and girl love you.
Speaker 4 (49:22):
Thanks for stopping. Bye until next time.
Speaker 1 (49:25):
This has been rogue energy and I'm your host, Courtney Robertson.
Speaker 4 (49:28):
Do you soon
Hey there, Welcome to Rogue Energy. I'm Courtney Robertson. You
might remember me from the Bachelor Season sixteen. I was
a villain, wah wah. I was also the ring winner,
which made me a little bit of a different breed.
But I love Rogue Energy. Also I was the skinny Dipper. Sorry. Mom. Today,
if you're a fan of reality television, I am joined
(00:32):
by a reality TV icon. You definitely know who this is.
Her voice is very soul treat. It's gonna be a
fun listen for you. She won Survivor. She's been on
four times, so we're gonna dive into that. Also, she
was on season two of Traders. We're gonna talk about
what she feels like about Bachelor contestants and pilot Pete.
And she's currently on Dealer No Deal Island, so we
(00:55):
will catch you up on that. She's a mother, she
is an author. Book comes out in June, which is
Nice Girls Don't Win, and she just launched her podcast,
Nice Girls Don't Win. So today, welcome to Rogue Energy.
Poverty Shallow.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Hi, Courtney, I'm so excited to talk with you. You look
like you're in some kind of pop studio, like you're
gonna do some spice girls for music.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Today? Are we doing that?
Speaker 1 (01:23):
I mean we might playtime. You have playtime on your
new episode, your latest episode with Rob which there is
so much to talk about with you. Can we just
start out by saying that you and I have a
lot in common. I was a reality show villain on
the Bachelor, but you have also been the villain. But
we have both been called black widows.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
I mean it is a badge of honor.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
I think if you are a powerful woman, who's charismatic,
who is attractive, you're gonna be called a black widow probably.
I mean, if you've got some strategic chops. So I say,
own it, run with a be proud, make T shirts.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
I know, but we're going to dive into it all
because it's not always that easy, right, And so I
wanted to talk about rogue energy. I have done a
lot of thinking of like what does rogue energy mean
to me? And I wanted to get you on because
you have paved the way. I mean, yes, I like
(02:23):
to keep things relatable for people who are fans of
you and me and watching reality TV, but I also
in life, and so I wanted to ask you what
rogue energy means to you, because I'm sure there's been
a time like have you always been a little bit naughty,
a little rogue?
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (02:44):
I think so.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
I mean, I grew up in a commune in Florida.
It was run by a female guru who was very charismatic,
very powerful, and as a child, I just remember running
free through the woods like a little heathen with aa
of kids, and I do.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
I mean parts of it, yes, and parts of it
very shadowy. A lot of coercive control, emotional manipulation, abuse lies,
all that kind of stuff, financial abuse, emotional abuse, some
people physically abused things like that. I mean, I dove
into it in my book because as a child I
(03:27):
had a hard time distinguishing what was really happening, because
everything felt normal and fine and good and healthy, and
it was just like this very strange way to be
brought into the world. And then when we left, my
parents packed everything up. We left the commune when I
(03:49):
was nine years old and moved to Atlanta, Georgia, where
the rules for life were very different. So I think
for me, there's a balance or polarity between assimilating into society,
so bringing the kind of energy that will help me
to fit in. And then also having this very different
(04:12):
kind of vibe that comes from how I where I
was born, what I was kind of raised into. That's
like wildly rogue, where I'm just like, oh, well, I'm
just gonna make life work for me. Like I see
the rules of the game. I'll play by the rules
of the game as long as they work for me.
And if it doesn't, I'm going to break the rules
and do.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
It my way. So when you say just to walk
it back a little bit, commune, what is I mean
for anybody listening, Like when you say that? And I
know you talk a lot about this in your book,
so nice girls don't win. You were very vulnerable to
share all this, But what when commune, Like, can you
(04:53):
just kind of tell us a little bit more about that,
like or what that means.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Well, I'm pretty much building one of my house right
now in La. My friends are moving into the back
house because of the fires in La. The fires in
La have displaced a lot of people from their homes
and they've been trying to rent a place and they're
getting out bid by so many people who lost their
homes in the Palisades. So I'm like, come on over,
(05:19):
there's four of them. We're gonna have three kids running around,
two families in this compound for now, you know, for
a short amount of time. But that's like a mini
commune basically what I grew up in. It's like a compound,
But what I grew up in was a full ashrom.
So back in like the seventies and eighties, these were
(05:41):
popping up all over the US, and it was because
the gurus were coming over from India and they were
bringing meditation and yoga and this lifestyle that was vegetarian,
very communal, very people helping each other to live, raise
children together, cook food together, eat together. Was like a
(06:01):
healthy lifestyle with high minded ideals, and everyone was bonded
by this spiritual thread of you know, trying to reach enlightenment,
trying to reach peace and nirvana. And usually they would
be run by one figurehead, like a master teacher or
a guru. So that is where we lived. Ours was
a Hindu commune, but there's lots of different kinds, I guess,
(06:26):
but yeah, the other word for it is ashram. And
I've also jetted off to India and stayed in one
of those for a time after I.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
After I once survived or I did that.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
It's just kind of like there's something about living so
close to the land and people pitching in and supporting
one another, knowing that you could rely on someone. I'm
a single mother, so if I have to go out
one night or go to a meeting, I got a
organized childcare. I can't leave my house after seven pm
if my daughter's with me. But God, there's like a
(07:00):
It's just this feeling of relief and support that you
can get when you're like, oh, there's a family right here.
I can just bounce to the store and pick up
eggs for the morning because there's.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Some people here. Simplicity of nature too, which I believe
in grounding and I love a little woo woo. It
sounds like you could relate. And also something that people
might not know about you is you're also a life coach.
And first of all, thank you for sharing that, because
I just think it's important to share that. And I
think that's like the American dream is to like be unplugged,
(07:34):
but we live in a society we're constantly glued to
our phones. I'm looking right now, and you and I
have so much in common and we're both moms of girls.
That's why I call you p my daughter Paloma. I
would love your mom advice at a later date. But
she's like my mini me.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
And there's so much sass and.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
She's got rogue energy for sure. Her hair is definitely.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
I love little.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Girl's rogue hair. My daughter had the same thing. Her
hair was crazy. And there's a mom who brings her
kid to school. This mom is like the head of
the PTA at my daughter's school, and her little girl
her hair is like a caveman, like has been living
in the woods for like fifteen years. There's twigs and
berries in it, and I am so happy every time
(08:25):
I see this girl.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
It's my favorite thing. I love that.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
I was so I was like really bummed when my
daughter started caring about brushing her hair in the morning.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
I'm like, oh, no, a.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
Rogue, just go rogue.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Well, okay, so let's switch gears. So how I met
you is through Amy Bean, and obviously I was on
The Bachelor. I would love to hear what you think
about Bachelor contestants versus like you went on Survivor you
want it. I mean that's major and I don't know
how you feel about being called a reality TV icon,
but you are so I would love to hear your
(09:03):
thoughts and feelings on that and how you navigate that,
because bringing it back to money, I have been called
the Michael Jordan of The Bachelor and how I played
the game, and which it is a game, but there
is love involved and there's a realness. But the difference
between you and me, if I might say, is that
you went on shows not for love, but you won them.
(09:23):
So there's like a similar mentality that we have. I
was thinking about a song on my way over to
the studio to record, and I was thinking like birds
of a feather, like we have a common thread between
you and I.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Well, and first of all, before we dive into The
Bachelor and stuff, you set us up your podcast Genius,
because we Amy and I could not have started our
podcast without you. You're so smart and so savvy in
this world of podcasting, and your expertise that you shared
with us was so generous and really kind and support
(10:00):
and I appreciate that so much because I think women
are sort of set up to be competitors, like society
kind of hits us against each other. On The Bachelor,
you got twenty women competing for one man, So for
you to first of all be label at the villain
and the black widow, I'm like, I take an issue
(10:20):
with that because you're so kind and so generous, but
I think that doesn't work hard.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
I a swallow girl and I was a ring winner
is what they say, like winner, which I hate that label.
And my book was called I Didn't come here to
make friends, which is so similar to nice girls don't
win and that mentality. But like there's so many elements
that goes into reality TV and production, and our common
(10:46):
thread that brought us together was Amy Bean. Yeah. You
know you talked about manipulation and growing up and that
kind of stuff. So I believe nature and nurture versus nurture,
like what you were raised with also formed you and
my mom. I'll get into that at another time, But
(11:07):
I'm like a survivor, you know, Like I had, like
I moved to LA when I was nineteen and had
to like Thomas Guide. This was before internet, and like
I'd have to go on my phone and or not
my phone, I'd have to get my Thomas Guide at
or go to map quest and write my directions. I'm
like I'm nineteen living in Los Angeles, Like I've always
(11:28):
had this like survivor, like gotta protect myself as a woman.
Speaker 4 (11:33):
So anyway, So going back to how we.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Met, amy Bean was a producer. It is a massive producer.
That's your co host of Nice Girls Don't Win and
being behind the scenes in reality TV. There are so
many movie parts, like you can watch a show but
you don't know what's going on in the dynamics and
talking about manipulation. So Amy Bean is my best friend.
(11:55):
She was with me on The Bachelor, and I always
say any friend of her as a friend of mine
because she doesn't keep everybody in her life. Everybody falls
in love with her as a producer. And when she
told me about you, truthfully, that's when I first learned
about you. Sorry, not sorry, I'm so offended, Courtney, But
(12:17):
I think that makes it a little bit more natural
for us. Like I'm not fam girling over you, but
I know you're a friend of Amy Bean's who's a
reality TV producer icon, but you have done a lot
in this space, so.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Yes, and I do, like my.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
I have so much respect and compassion for you and
what you share about your mom and then moving out
and being on your own in LA because it does
make you so gritty and it makes you have to realize,
like you have to rely on yourself if you want
to succeed in the world. And I think striking out
(12:58):
on your own and doing that and then being cast
because at that time with the Thomas Guides, I had
a roommate.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Who was doing that.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
You remember it.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Yes, it's a spiral bound For those of you who
don't know what a Thomas Guide is, it is a
spiral bound map that's like a book.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
It's like a.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Three hundred page It's humongous, and it has the streets
like cross sections cut out of the streets. She would
write notes in it.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Over I watched her. I was like, no, how are
you using this thing.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
I'm like, I would just rather just be lost and
drive around for two hours.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
I did that.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
I've done that.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
I got lost in the four or five and I
was like, Dad. I called him.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
I was like, can you pull up MapQuest. I think
I'm an Orange County and I just left downtown l A.
And he's like, what do you see And I'm like,
I don't know Brookhurse. He's like, yeah, you're in Newport.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
You're a Newport Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
So this is how we learn when we're young. And
that's why I always say, just start before you're ready.
Put yourself out. And when you were here in La,
I was also here in La because around that same
time was when they were doing a lot of recruiting
for Survivor, and they were probably doing a lot of
recruiting for The Badger too, for casting where they were
(14:12):
pulling people who they would just meet at the mall
or on the street.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Or they asked me if I would do what was
it not survivor what's the other one? The travel one?
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Amazing Race?
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Yes, And they were like, oh my god, maybe we
should do Race together.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
We would both be so low.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Our survival guides with like our Survivor skills on like navigating.
I think that's so interesting. Privty is navigating the production
side of being on a show and that and I
hate to say manipulation, but I got a lot of
what I wanted out of The Bachelor because I took
no shit. You know. There were times where I pushed
(14:53):
to the limit and I was like this is not okay,
Like I'm not getting paid to be here at least
you won money. Can you remind me how much you
want one? On Survivor?
Speaker 4 (15:01):
At least you got a cash prize.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Survivor is a million dollars.
Speaker 4 (15:07):
Yeah after tax Yeah, uncle Sam, it.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Was like six hundred grand after taxas and I was
twenty five years old.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
What do you do?
Speaker 4 (15:18):
What do you do?
Speaker 1 (15:19):
So? What does that look like when you get that check?
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Well, I wrote the story in my book.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Okay, so we'll I want to hear that you got it.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
I'll send you a copy of the book because I
have the pre corrected I have the proofs.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
The un corrected.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Yeah, I'm like, what are these words?
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Yeah, you're the talent girl.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Yeah, I have that. I'll send you a copy. See
you can read it.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
But yeah, it was such a wild time because I
was working as a waitress, bartender, boxer when I was
first cast on Survivor and when I came back, because
I was doing bottle service in Hollywood at the nightclubs.
My first table that I dropped a bottle at was
(16:05):
Leonardo DiCaprio and all of his friends.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
We were romping around at the same time. Why didn't
we connect and be besties?
Speaker 4 (16:13):
But now here we are what was about Leo. He
was a smoker.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
I saw him smoking a heater at after party for
the Oscars, where I meant a couple actors ended up dating.
But so you were doing that was what was he nice?
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Leo was getting around at the time too. There's a
girl on Traders with me who had some Leo stories
and I'm just going to leave it at that. But
he was super nice, Like I was surprised. He was
just like really respectful and kind. And I was wearing
a see through gold belly dancing skirt, a black bra,
(16:52):
these platform leather knee high boots that were like six
inch platforms, and a hair piece, like a huge hair
so I looked like a fembot from Awesome Powers. And
I was towering over everyone, just carrying around bottles of
dom and making thousands of dollars. But I would spend
it just as quick as I would make it. So
(17:12):
when I won Survivor.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
About the rent and all it, it's so, oh my god,
everything and it's.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Just gotten crazier.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Yeah, But I mean at that time, I didn't know
how to manage money either. I've only recently started learning
that as as a single mother.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
I'm like I need to.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Get be financially responsible and make good decisions. But at
that time I was not there. I was partying with
you know, everybody. But that story is in my book
and it was wild because when they handed me the check,
I had like negative sixty dollars.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
In my bank account.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
I've always I've had of moments. I call my dad,
I'm like, can you just put one hundred bucks in
my I'm in the negatives, which is, by the way,
can we talk about how stressful that it is not feeling?
But also what I'm hearing is that you've always had
a strong work ethic. I mean, it's not easy to
go put that on, and you have learned to. I've
(18:07):
been in the nightclub scene in La so I was
next to justin Timberlakes Booth quite often. And for you
rip Bob Saggat, he was always in the clubs. I
mean a little bit gross to name drop, but for
the listeners just to paint a picture. This was when
I would go out with Spencer Pratt and Baroti Jenner
(18:28):
and gosh, I don't know the year. I'm not good.
It's kind of stuff. But like they wanted models there
so they would like recruit Ford models to come and
just like dance and have fun and it was a
great time. But I also was there to work. And
it sounds like you've always had good work ethic and
that to me, and I'll you'll hear this when I
(18:51):
talk about what rogue goes means to me, is like
basically you think about in the army like when he
grows rogue. But I've always wanted to pave my own
way and work hard and be fresh and have fun
doing it. So the fact that you were working and
how old were you at that time? If you five
(19:14):
when I won, what a life launch for you?
Speaker 3 (19:18):
It was wild?
Speaker 4 (19:20):
Why it's not like putting that job? Or are you
still doing it?
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Do you have?
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Honestly, I wish I still had it, and I wish
I still had those boots. They were like Frankenstein boots
but so cool. I could have worn them to pride.
I'm really sad, like I've moved so many times, I
haven't been I'm more of a gipsy, so I kind
of the rogue energy is very strong in me. I
(19:47):
have always wanted to make my own money. I really
value freedom and being able to do what I want
to do what speaks to me at the time. So
finding ways to make money that I like has been
really important to me, and i've it's been a very
nonlinear path. And it's so different because my parents my
mom as an electrical engineer was she's retired now and
(20:10):
my dad was a high school math teacher, so very consistent,
very typical, standard kind of linear paths. And as I'm
move in through the world, they're like, oh, goold, you're
gonna what you do? Reality television?
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Is that a thing?
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Like you just have to be willing to fall flat
on your face and hope for the best. And that's
kind of how I operate. It's just like, Oh, this
sounds like an adventure. This sounds really.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
Fun, and I could make a million dollars. Why would
I say no to that.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
I might look totally stupid and embarrass myself on international television,
but there's still a chance to have a great time
and make a ton of cash.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
So yes, it is my answer.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Well, I can't wait to read that chapter in your
book because I remember the first big check I made.
I made it for a modeling gig. I made thirty
thousand dollars for a Clarsonic gag that ad that.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Was like, I remember the Clarensonic too. Yeah, I haven't
throwbacks all day.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
My first big check, I just blew. I had nobody
helping me. I moved when I was in nineteen grand
twenty and I was making all this money. I was
modeling for Abercrombie at the time and going to these
clubs and getting my Thomas Guide out, and I was like,
the first thing I did was I went and bought
like a Louis Vuitton person.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
You're like, I have made it, I've arrived.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
I still have it. I can't part with it. So Traders,
which I am low key campaigning for, I.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Feel like you should do it.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
I loved your episode with Amy talking to Boston Rob
and the thing that makes you you're just a natural
first of all. It seems like it's just ingrained in you,
and not everybody has that. And so my point in
being here today is to help. When I started podcasting
was to just like help people and help inspire people
to live their best lives and take those chances, because.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
I think a lot of people get stuck.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
They're like, I don't know where this is going to lead,
and they want to see so much farther down the
path than they can see, and they want assurance or
certainty that something's going to work out or lead them
somewhere good. And for me, I don't think that's necessary
or helpful.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
Really.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
I think we want to hold a vision for our
lives and really know what we stand for and what
we value, like I value love, yeah, love, adventure, courage, generosity.
You know you stand for those things, and then you
just say yes to things that align with those values
and your life will work out. It will unfold very
(22:52):
beautifully the more present you are in the moment. So
that's why I think like these are these shows are cool.
Traders is cool like that because things unfold so fast,
and I'm sure you had this experience with The Bachelor
where you just had to be ready to respond in
the moment to maybe some change in circumstance that was unexpected.
(23:13):
And the people that can make those changes and adapt
and be present in the moment, those are the ones
that do well in the shows, and the ones that
are rigid or too fixed and they can't make the
adjustment they get voted out. They got But it's the
same thing that I think happens in life. It just
is sort of like a microcosm of the bigger picture
(23:37):
of life.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Gosh, can you life coach me?
Speaker 2 (23:41):
And then yeah, ever, I mean that's what we're doing here.
Speaker 4 (23:45):
Yeah, right seriously.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
And I just remember being a little lost in La
It was so lonely. I used to go to the
grove and bump up against people just to feel connection.
And I was so into getting books. It was when
bookstores still a thing. I'd go to that Barnes and
Noble and it would be like, what's the latest and greatest.
And Luckily, like I feel like that comes with living
in La too. There's a lot of like I call
(24:08):
it like a vortex, Like I feel like people go
there to go rogue a little bit, to follow their
dreams and to step outside of the box. And I've
always been into personal development. Life Bolt was I could
list the name of books that I have read, like,
I mean, I Kert Toldy and I'm sure you've dove
(24:29):
into that as well. But anyway, so I want to
talk about traders switching gears again. So how is Pilot Pete?
Speaker 2 (24:41):
I think straight in Peter was so annoying to me
in the game, and.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
How it's like now you know me and I was
on The Bachelor, but like there is this diconomy of
like Survivor, and you see that on this season's Traders,
like with Boston Rob and the Survivors and the Wes
and all this kind of stuff. But when you went
on got the offer to go on Traders, how did
you feel about it? I mean you had to leave
for what like a couple of weeks well as a trader,
(25:11):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Yes, Okay, So just just to kind of elaborate on
why Peter was so annoying is because he was so
sweet and he was fun to talk to, but he
was such a trader hunter and like such a bloodhounding,
kept his nose to the to the ground every day
and he was always on me and he was always
fighting for this cause of good and morality and justice,
(25:33):
which drove me nuts because I was like, it's called Traders, Peter,
like live a little be a trader, come on. So
that was that was annoying. But I like him as
a person, but he was he was yeah not I
heard he play the game. How good he was in
the game. Yeah, he was really good.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
I'm because to me, he just kind of seems like
this Bambat. He would have been in the Bambies if
it was season three.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
He's pretty sharp.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
He reminds me of Dylan Efron Aileen, I hope he
is Dylan.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
He's a cutie pie.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
He's super cute. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
And so when they called me to play, my friend
Suri had played the first season and she won. She's
from Survivor, and they had asked me to do the
first season, but I was going through divorce and it
wasn't finalized, so I said no. I was like, call me,
but call me again because it sounds really fun. Mafia
is such a fun game. It's so stressful, but like
(26:33):
really fun. I was like, also Alan Cummings hosting it.
I have to do it because I've been obsessed with
him since Romey and Michelle's high school reunion. And the
second season they called me to go play and I
was still not really ready. I was in the middle
of writing my book. I'd been doing a lot of therapy,
therapeutic work to help me heal from the past. And
(26:58):
I was like, Oh, I don't know, next season, let
me do it next season.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
They're like, no, we really want you for season two.
I got to do it.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
And I was like, guys, please just give me a year.
I'll be ready to rock.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
Like I'm not my.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Fullest the talent. Yeah, you want to be your best self.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Yes, I'm like, I'm just not. Like I still felt
very kind of shaky and vulnerable from having come out
of really challenging divorce and hard situation and trying to life.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Because I think going back to real life and being realgue,
I've had some many hard breakups where I've had to
break up with people and I can't imagine unringing that bell,
so so sorry.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
When it's necessary, you gotta do it.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
And though I'll stay in things that just serve for
the kids or this or that, and like that's that's
a big deal.
Speaker 4 (27:51):
Poverty pee.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
And I've found that it's if you have if there's
a dynamic in the home that's emotionally for aught and negative,
it's not best for the kids to stay together. It's
best for the kids, for the mom, for the parents
to be happy. So if that means separating and living
(28:14):
on your own independently and working out some kind of
custody arrangement so that you can see your kid and
you'd be happy, that is the healthiest thing to do
in my opinion, for I agree.
Speaker 4 (28:25):
An unpopular opinion.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
But here's the other thing, and that's what I love
about you so much, pe is that you've paved your
own way and it inspires people and it helps people.
It's never too late. So go back to I'm sorry
to circle back on that story. So you're like, no,
how did they talk you into going onto traders?
Speaker 3 (28:45):
I honestly don't know.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
I was like, I, okay, it's Sharon. It's Sharon Bong
who's she's now the head of reality all reality programming
it NBC and Peacock. She was a friend of mine
from CBS Survivor Days and she moved from CBS over
to Peacock and NBC and she was like she called
me and she's just like, you got to do this.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
We need you. This is your cast.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
And I think it's because they wanted to have me
and Sandra on together because at the time, Sandra and
I were having a conflict and they wanted that.
Speaker 4 (29:21):
I love that. I think girls don't win.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
So Sharon won in the end.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
But she always well, anytime Sharon asked me to do something,
I'm like, all right, I'll be there.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
And you did it.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Yeah, and I did it, and I'm really grateful I
did it.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
Was hard.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Traders is the hardest game I've ever played. And that's
saying a lot because now I've done Survivor five times,
but Traders is harder than surviver.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
I mean, girl, that's insane. And then did you keep
your cloak? The fans need to know.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
Oh I wish no, that was on loan.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
I think they're using the same cloaks. Oh gosh, those
clothes they're one size fits all. They just get passed
down from Trader to trader. The Traders.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
I would love to talk about sexuality maybe another time,
but uh, with cloaks. Yeah, dungeons book you talk about
there's a lot you guys in there because Amy Bean
tease me and you know, dress up and that kind
of stuff.
Speaker 4 (30:24):
So but that's not.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
The Yeah, we did have a good chat about that.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
We were doing like a dry rod and we're so
like popped or nip blah. I mean, if you guys
could be a fly on the wall, I love you.
Speaker 4 (30:39):
I can relate to you.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
So sorry.
Speaker 4 (30:43):
I got the Church giggles so much.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
So I'm gonna go back and watch your season I'm
fangirling right now, So deal are no Deal. That's how
we connected through Amy Bean, who is like orbiting talk
about like beam me up, Scottie. I just love her energy.
I love of villains. I have reached out to so
many villains from other shows just to help with the
blowback because you make it look so easy, but it
(31:09):
isn't always easy to have that online hate and social
media wasn't a thing when I went on the Bachelor.
But so for you, let's go to deal or no deal?
Speaker 4 (31:17):
Because have you.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Always just been a prize winner? I mean you keep
getting asked to do these shows and you dominate them.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
I've only I'm.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
Only a couple episodes in which also airs on I believe.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Tuesdays Tuesdays at nine pm on NBC.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
Awesome. Well, so I've watching you look so pretty. It
looks so natural all the time. Obviously are a gorgeous girl.
I just have to ask, like from a viewer watching, like,
do you even think about that when you're on the show?
Do you are you? Like? I mean, you just look
stunning watching and you're in a swimsuit. That makes you
vulnerable anyway to be like on national television in a swimsuit. Like, well,
(31:59):
I've been doing Survivors since I was twenty three.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
I've like really cut my teeth, I am, so I've
I've worked hard to develop a healthy comfortability and friendship
with my body, and I've done that through exposure therapy,
like being out, putting myself out there for public consumption,
(32:24):
like everyone, to everyone to observe and judge since I
was twenty three years old. And I really just I
really just love being on a beach.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
It's where I feel most at home and most myself.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
And then I just I really let it go.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
The I don't think about what I look like when
I'm playing these games, because well.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
You do kind of transition into each role you've played.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
Well, I just get so into the game, I'm like, oh,
but with Traders, I will say with I took the
challenge of stepping into the fashion element of that show
very seriously because I knew I would be in the
presence of Alan Cumming and I really wanted to.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Show up.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
So like, clothes I've never really cared about because Survivor
you don't even wear clothes ever, You just wear your underwear.
Now they don't even let people wear bathing suits, so
I never really thought about it, but it was a
unique challenge to get all that wardrobe together for Traders,
and I chose.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
I chose a fashion role model.
Speaker 4 (33:43):
Okay, who was Chock.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Blair Waldorf from Gossip Girl. She was my role model
and my character role model as well, because I was like, Oh,
she's kind of bitchy, but she's powerful. But she's sort
of understated, but she's assertive, she's got some thing.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
You know, you really swept into a character I did. Yeah,
that in your sweater kind of reminds me of Harry
Potter right now, but I love it. Hello Famura Lord
v actually runner. So that's really interesting because I'm watching
(34:21):
like I would love to go on the show, and
I was like, what would my vibe like? I think
that's what makes the show so in stunning to watch.
It's like you probably grew up playing clue.
Speaker 4 (34:29):
It's like you can.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Find me in the den, you know, yes, plotting somebody's murder.
You know.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
I lost those the murder mystery games in high school
that I played where my friends would give us a
character and we would dress up, and I was always
given the character of the glamorous whoever who was always
the murderer. So I would wear these beaded gowns to
someone's house. I have a long since skinny cigarette.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
It's so fun.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
That part of it is makes it even extra fun
to play.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
I still want that cloak. I'm an Amazon Prime New one.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
Yeah, they're not the same.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
I will say my uncle, my aunt and uncle Bob
and Susan Shallow who live in golf Shores. Oh, they
would be so over the moon if we called them.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
They like, I know, I would love to get naughty
with you sometimes and just like cold call people.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
We should prank call some peeps.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
What about Boston Rob, I feel like he would know.
Does Star six nine still work?
Speaker 3 (35:34):
I mean, that's nice test it out.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
But anyway, they sent me a cloak from Amazon, and
it's just not the same material because the trader's cloaks
are very heavy.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
It looks very sick. It was it freezing there by
the way, freezing cold, so cold. But you're like I
was on Survivor, so you could probably hang with that.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
No, the Survivor's warm.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Oh yeah, you like your beach, Yeah, it's warm and
it's not icy cold.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
It was really cold. In Scotland. I was like, oh god,
I'm nervous. I brought so many wool coats, floor length woolcoats.
I was like, why did I pack so many of these?
Speaker 1 (36:11):
How many bags did you bring on the path too?
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Yeah, I only brought to Phaedra had like five or six.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
So do you keep in touch with a lot of
the people from Traders?
Speaker 3 (36:26):
Some of them?
Speaker 2 (36:27):
I mean, uh, Dan still Dan and I chat, Phaedra
and I Janelle occasionally, trishall yeah, some of them.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
MJ's here.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
I haven't seen her, but yeah, I think we're all
friendly and there is a group chat. So when I
left to go play Australian Survivor, the cast was leaked
and the whole Traders group chat was like go get them.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
I'm like really supportive.
Speaker 4 (36:51):
It was cute.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
Well, and obviously I was a fie on the wall.
When you did Boston Rob, you know on Girls Don't Win.
If you haven't listened to it, go check it out.
I was like, oh my god, he eliminated Bob the
drag Queen. I woke up in the moment watch the
latest episode. He's an icon. So Parverty, you have been
on multiple game shows. How do you decide which ones
(37:18):
to do. I would love to hear what you know
the next five years looks for you. You were a
Michael Jordan of reality TV game shows.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
So wait, that's you.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
You're a Michael Jordan basketball player. Larry Bird is he
still doing this thing?
Speaker 1 (37:36):
We've got to be the same age Charles Barkley. Let's
get him on the podcast.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Oh my god, we're like really aging ourselves right out.
I just look I have. I've come to a place
in life where all I want to do is things
that feel aligned and exciting and fun and pay me
(38:01):
a lot of money, or where I could win a
lot of money.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
That's so great too.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
It's like, oh, let me do this really amazing, super
fun thing where I can be myself in different in
different ways. Because these game shows are cool because they
let us play, and I think as adults we don't
get a chance to play very often. There's so many responsibilities,
(38:26):
especially when you have children, and you have to be
the one who's making the hard choices and doing the
right thing and being responsible all the time. And I
think life can get really repetitive and dull if we
lean too much on responsibility and obligation. So when I
get a call to do a game show like Dealer,
Nodio Island or Traders or Australian Survivor, I'm like, yes,
(38:50):
that is well. First, I consider who's the host, because
I love Joe Meganello, I love Alan Comming, and then
Survivor Australia. Australian Survivor is so well done, and it
kind of is similar to old school American Survivor, where
the way that they shoot it and the way the
(39:11):
game is played is sort of more classic, and I'm like,
I want to do that. So I consider what is
the game, who's hosting it, does it sound fun, how
much money can I win? And what I might be
able to crush.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
Yeah, and also.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
I just I don't want to live in a bunk
bed with a bunch of crazy people. I don't want
to be around a bunch of people that are drunk
and screaming, So those kind of shows are out. I
want adventure, and I want the possibility to make a
lot of money, and I want great hosts, and I
also want to learn something new, like I would do
(39:48):
Dancing with the Stars because I would really want to
just put myself into a pressure cooker container where I
know nothing and I have to learn something really skilled
in a short amount of time. And it's like I
love the intensity of that.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
Wow, that that makes sense. That makes a lot of sense.
So how many game shows do you typically do a year?
And what can we expect moving forward?
Speaker 3 (40:15):
Girl? This is this is like a new thing for me.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
I'm not doing game shows multiple times a year because
I have a plan. I don't have a plan. I
don't have a five year plan. When you're like, what's
five years?
Speaker 3 (40:28):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (40:33):
These are tough questions.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
These are like hard hitting, hard you're.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
Asking the hard hitting journalism questions. You're like, god, yeah,
I don't know. I honestly, it.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
Was like, you know, she's like harvedy, what do you
do in between game shows? I always like to ask
people like what do you do to decompress? Or that
kind of stuff? But what's the real real Like what
do you do you do?
Speaker 4 (41:01):
Yoga?
Speaker 1 (41:01):
Lot? You just seem so zen to me, So what
are you doing between I mean obviously you're life coaching, so.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
Nice court me.
Speaker 4 (41:10):
You're mining hard.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
You've been writing a book, which what took you two
years and.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
A half years? Two and a half years to write
the book. That was a really deep soul excavation process
and I was doing at the time, I was really
focusing on healing, so I was going to acupuncture, somatic therapy,
I was doing this type of holotropic breathwork called growth
(41:37):
that was these three hour kind of intensive breathwork experiences
over a few days at a time, those kind of things.
I was just like really seeking out anything that could
help me move through old fear, old stuff that was
in my stuck in my body that I didn't want
(41:58):
to keep there anymore. I know that was really helpful.
So now I've moved into a new phase. The book
is done. I really do feel like I have created
a lot of strength in my nervous system so I
can handle life at a bigger at a faster pace,
and on a bigger scale. So I'm doing this podcast
now with Amy Nice Girls Don't Win that you thank
(42:18):
God helped us launch Courtney, and.
Speaker 3 (42:20):
I'm going to start working on a new book project.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
This is in my brain because I just met with
my writing coach, writing teacher who lives in New York City.
Speaker 3 (42:30):
Her name is Sarah Harrington.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
If anyone is thinking about taking on a writing project,
or wanting to do classes. She offers them online, and
she's brilliant because she incorporates mindfulness and yoga into the
writing as well, so it's really embodied and the writing
comes out so much better when you're writing from an
embodied place rather than just from your head. She's amazing.
(42:53):
So I just met with her and I'm going to
start working on a new project. We'll start flushing that
out in the next month, and who knows, if I
get asked to do another game show, I'll probably consider that.
Speaker 4 (43:06):
I would love to play with you come.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
On, which we've I think we should pitch ourselves for Amazing, right.
I think we would lose instantly, just because I have
no direction and it seems like it takes you a
long time to read a map. But we should give
it a go.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
Anyway called Thomas Guide. We would not win that competition.
I love her old school vibes.
Speaker 4 (43:30):
I really too.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
All right, before we wrap up, I want to talk
about nice Girls Don't Win. Your book that is coming out,
and it's an eye opening memoir about survival, trauma and healing.
One of your just an icon, as I've said, But
how does that transition from your reality TV World into
(43:53):
your personal stories.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
I am a firm believer, and nothing is separated. Everything
is can So when I was writing the book, I
was pulling stories from my life and considering the experiences
that I had in life, and the things that were
holding me back were the times when I was mostly
(44:16):
focused on people liking me, so performing for other people's
validation or approval, and disregarding what my heart was telling
me to do or my intuition and people pleasing so
like putting other people's emotional needs ahead of mine, or
trying to take care of other people's emotional needs, and
(44:38):
not connecting with my own wants or desires, or allowing
myself to even take up space. So as I wrote
the book, I noticed moments in the game shows that
I played where I did that as well, pulled some
of that out for you know, people to I want
with this book. I want people to read it to
(44:59):
relate to it in their own lives, because everything that
I have done, I think I made it relatable in
a way. Even though I've had these experiences that are
so unique and rare, like playing Survivor or Traders or
Dealer Nodeal Island, there are still elements of it where
(45:20):
you would have the same experience in your job or
in your marriage or in your relationship. And I think
the way that I was writing it was for people
who are going to read this, who need some who
are feeling maybe stuck in their lives, not really understanding
themselves or not prioritizing or putting themselves first, feeling a
(45:42):
little stuck, not sure what to do or how to
move beyond a situation that's not working for them anymore,
and then showing them the way through the way I
got through it, and then showing them that there is
another side and on the other side of these sticky
situations is so much freedom, so much joy, so much light,
(46:03):
and so many more opportunities and possibilities for really cool
stuff to happen in your life and more aligned friendships
and relationships and jobs and all of that. But you
really do have to bet on yourself to get there.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
Well, I'd take that bet.
Speaker 4 (46:22):
Yeah, girl, so much for sharing that with us.
Speaker 1 (46:25):
You just answered my last question, which is like, what
would you say to somebody who might be feeling a
little stuck or I mean, you're just such a natural.
Speaker 3 (46:34):
Oh oh, thanks, corn I I love you.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
Thank you so much. So Nice Girls Don't Win. You
have new episodes coming out, can you give us a
little teaser as what to expect. It's available on all platforms.
She was so funny before we started recording. She's like
all these cores we didn't have cords on survivor.
Speaker 3 (46:52):
So many courts.
Speaker 2 (46:54):
Oh my god, Like you should see me, I just
bundling it all up in my arms, like schlepping it around.
I think that's the thing that people don't see about me.
They see the polished kind of me on the screen,
But oh my god, the mess that's happening before I
sit down is really it's pretty wild. But I think
I have refined my ability to stay home even when
(47:17):
there's chaos happening all over the place. And that's sort
of what Nice Girls Don't Win is Right now. The
podcast is Amy and I kind of figuring it out.
We're both moms, we are both from this television world,
so we're going to be talking to really interesting guests
from all walks of life who can give us some
(47:38):
of their expertise so we don't have to think of
everything ourselves because it's just too hard. I want the
cliffs notes, I want the synopsis of how to Win
at Life, and people are going to help us with that.
It is a work in progress. So we're setting up
a studio now.
Speaker 1 (47:53):
We did.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
We launched our first episode and it was.
Speaker 3 (47:55):
A wild ride.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
So if you want an adventure, tune into that for
first episode with Boston Rob And yeah, we're setting up
in a studio, so the camera element, the video element
will be a little bit higher quality, and Amy and
I will be in the same room and we'll have
some amazing guests on and it's just gonna be fun.
It's really kind of the point of it is just
(48:17):
to have a blast.
Speaker 1 (48:19):
Thank you so much for joining Rogue Energy Party. We
follow Nice Girls Don't Win. It's available wherever you listen
to your podcasts and pre order Nice Girls Don't Win.
I can't wait to devour it. And Deal or No
Deal Island, can you give us a teaser?
Speaker 2 (48:39):
Dealer No Deal Island is heating up.
Speaker 3 (48:42):
We had a show bance.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
There's a lot of things that are yet to come,
and it's gonna be faster and more furious from here.
And the end of this game exploded my brain. I've
never seen anything like it in my entire life, so
I say get into the show now so that you
can be a part of this journey in real time
(49:06):
as this show comes to a close, because you will
be blown away.
Speaker 3 (49:10):
You'll like, it's miraculous what happens at the end of
this game.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
Okay, I'm gonna go devour it. I'm going to go
binge it. Well, Pete, thank you so much for the
little sweet Pete and girl love you.
Speaker 4 (49:22):
Thanks for stopping. Bye until next time.
Speaker 1 (49:25):
This has been rogue energy and I'm your host, Courtney Robertson.
Speaker 4 (49:28):
Do you soon
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