July 7, 2025 • 25 mins
Amy and T.J. go over the latest, fascinating details about what’s been happening with Diddy behind the scenes in prison following the verdict. Apparently Diddy is now the “guy who wins” behind bars. His attorney Marc Agnifilo talks about the defense strategy and what Diddy’s plans are once he’s released from prison.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey, there're folks, it is fun Day, July seventh, and
this will be another important week for Sean Diddy Combs.
Last week was certainly a big week after a big win.
And you know what he got after that win, a
standing ovation from a crowd of folks. Who is lawyer
(00:22):
now says he should serve as an inspiration for woo
wee folks, welcome to this. Did he update of Amy
and TJ and Robes were so intrigued and so fascinated
trying to get details about what was going on in
that chord and the behind the scenes stuff. And we're
starting to get some Mark Agnifilo, who is without a
doubt going to be a household name and a star
(00:44):
moving forward. He gave an interview to the Associated Press
and some things jumped out, including the fact did he
get a standing ovation?
Speaker 2 (00:51):
That was a doozy? Right? That was a diddy doozy
To see that and to hear Mark Agnifilo talk about
what it was like the reception that did he go
when he left that courtroom and walked back into that
Brooklyn prison that they were all rallying around him. They
all were supportive and congratulating him. It's hard to imagine
(01:11):
what it's like to be Ditty in prison, and to
see that he had the support of his fellow inmates.
I guess maybe it shouldn't have been shocking, but it
kind of was.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Still when you hear some of the details, I suppose
some of it starts to make sense, but I guess
some initial headline thinking, this is a man who was
on trial for some pretty atrocious stuff. We saw him
do some awful monstrous stuff. If you take it just
on that level without the context, and to think that
(01:41):
he beat the case and anybody applauding, that seems a
little in bad taste.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
But these are fellow prisoners. These are people who have
also either been charged or convicted of probably other heinous acts,
certainly some of them violent. So perhaps it makes sense
if you think about it from that perspect because this
was kind of well, I believe Mark Agnefilo said, this
was a moment where these men in this prison, they
(02:09):
don't get to see anybody who beats the government, and
so this was a win in a weird way for
all of them.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
I take, and again I said, as in context of
a standing ovation, there are a lot of people, even
if they don't say it on social media, even they
don't say it publicly. They are, in their own way
applauding that the government didn't get away with what a
lot of people consider trumped up charges. This is rex
you're overreaching, and you should not be going out to
(02:38):
this man for this. You should be going out there
from this, this and this, which we all agree with
and we saw so in that context of Look, every
black man who gets charged with something in this country
is not Nelson Mandela. Okay, it's just not. But there
are plenty of black men who have plenty of experience,
and there's been plenty of evidence of how black men
have been treated by the justice system. So to walk
(02:59):
in to a prison and see, wow, you made it,
it was like they have almost something to aspire to
in applauding the fact that someone actually beat in a
way not got away with a crime. It's so different.
They're not applauding that he got away with a crime.
They're just applauding that the government didn't get you on
(03:21):
this bullshit. And a lot of them, I know everybody
don't sell block D that's the joke, says they're innocent.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Right, Yes, everyone, It wasn't them. They've been falsely accused.
They didn't do what they are charged with, certainly, but
this so I'm curious what you think Mark Agnefillo, when
he was giving this interview to the Associated Press talking
about this win that did he had, it was a
symbolic win for all of the black men incarcerated. I
(03:48):
think he said it was the best thing he could
do for incarcerated men in America.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
That's gonna be a stretch, that's gonna be That.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Was a lot for me to read.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
That's gonna be tough because of what It's so hard
to separate these two things. There are two things. It
is possible that the government overreached and did ditty wrong.
That's possible. It's hard, on the other hand, to say
it in the same breath that about a guy who
we know committed crimes that we saw and we would
(04:20):
have no problem with him going to Britain.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
They were indisputable and even he admitted to it. And
you said the prosecution did ditty wrong potentially by overreaching
and charging him with charges that weren't appropriate for the
crimes that he did commit. And I think a lot
of folks believe the prosecution did the victims wrong by
that as well?
Speaker 1 (04:40):
There you go, nail it. The government did everybody wrong.
It was wrong to go after Ditty in this way,
and it was wrong to the victims to do it.
I guess to stretch. It was a bit of a
stretch for what their experience was perhaps, and we're treating
them like what we always Domestic violence is so hard
(05:00):
in this country to deal with, to prosecute, to have
conversations about. And so we looked at a guy who's
a domestic abuser that don't we want we want them
all in prison.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Yes, and he should pay for those crimes.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Nobody's arguing that point. But they're not standing up and
applauding that he got away with beating the hell out
of women. Yeah, we got to be clear, that is
not what they're applauding. And I think the same thing
applied to the OJ Simpson trial, to where there were people,
white folks looking on one side going why are they
dancing and celebrating that this man got away with murder? No,
(05:35):
that's not what it was about.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
I'm I'm curious Mark Agnifilos that he talks to Diddy
four to five times a day, which I thought was
actually very interesting that that's how often they speak. But
when he said maybe it's this is what he relayed
to the AP that he told Diddy on one of
these phone calls, maybe it's your fate in life to
be the guy who wins. They need to see that
(06:00):
someone can win. And he said, I think he took
that to heart. Do you think that the reaction, even
by the fellow inmates, the support he obviously had from
his family and friends and from his legal team, do
you think that does change him that he feels now
maybe even like he is a role model. And that's
where I was getting a little bit concerned that somehow, okay, fine,
(06:23):
he didn't get charged with the things he shouldn't have
been charged with in the first place, but let's still
remember what he did and even what he admitted to doing.
Now to kind of act as if he's up on
a pedestal and can be a role model. This is
where I'm having a hard time with this. Now, we
can't take it too far the other direction. I can't.
I just don't think that's probably a good place for
anyone to consider him, or even for him to consider
(06:46):
himself in that category.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
We'd pite down a little bit on the idea of
him being a symbol, of him being hero of any kind.
And when nobody's going that far, I understand close it's saying,
but they never see anybody beat the government. Yes, and
that's fine on particular charges that account. I'm just using
(07:08):
that term loosely trumped up, but it is what it is.
And that's just the idea of anybody applauding or celebrating
in some way this man, Like even if you can
agree with the verdict, you still aren't hooting and hollering
and yay. That's just there's nothing about this case that
should be celebratory for anybody except quite frankly, for Diddy.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Right, and I could maybe be best in a private
celebration perhaps, But it was also interesting to hear Mark
talk to the AP about the defense strategy and how
they went about defending Diddy without ever putting a witness
on the stand.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
I thought it was interesting. This is a guy, Mark Agnifilo,
who was a federal prosecutor in Jersey who actually had
prosecuted gangs and other violent enterprises with racketeering, so he
knew federal rocketeering arges like nobody else inside, and that
was fascinating.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
He knew what he was doing, he knew what he
was up against, and he knew how to rip it apart.
He knew where the holes in that damn statue were,
he knew how to go after it. And the idea
they walked into court with the strategy of this, Yep,
he's an awful boyfriend. Yep, he beats women. That does
not make a racketeer. Yeah, he is not a sex
(08:27):
trafficking racketeer. He is an awful guy to date.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Right, they took they took the wind out of out
of the prosecution and sales by just fully admitting that
from the beginning and never trying to argue that he
was a good guy. They were like, yeah, he's a
terrible boyfriend, he's a violent boyfriend, but he is not
a sex trafficker and he wasn't involved in some racketeering conspiracy.
I mean, he said it was pretty interesting, he said,
(08:53):
because he knows racketeering so well, having been a federal prosecutor.
He said, if you know how the car works, you
know where the fail points are. And he said, this
prosecution had dozens, dozens of fall points.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
They tore it apart. It was almost shocking. This is
something they we teach kids this and as adults you
learn this thing, you take away somebody else's power to
insult you or come after you. If you just admit it,
if you say yep, I did that, you give them
nothing else, Like what's your next thing to say? If
I say, yeah, I'm violent, yep, I was on drugs, yep.
(09:30):
Treated those women terribly as a boyfriend, yep, domestic abuser,
all that stuff, Like, what's the next thing the prosecution
is going to say? Exactly, But but you gave two
pills to those two people, as your assistant brought to you.
Ha ha Stop.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
And he and Mark made such a good point. He
said they didn't have conspiracy because they basically just took
Diddy's private life and his deviant sexual ways and then
tried to build a racketeering case. He said, on personal assistance.
That's just common sense. It just didn't It did not
rise to that level. The jury is not stupid. The
(10:06):
jurors knew better, and they knew those weren't the charges
that he was actually guilty of.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
I say, your guy, Brendan Paul babyface, Yes he is
running and helping. Did he running come on?
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Just seeing seeing the personal assistance take the stand and
then still actually saying how much they loved and respected him.
It just it was now that you hear Mark talk
about it, and once you know, we were asking ourselves
when we were hearing all of the jury's questions and
wondering what they were thinking and which charges that, if any,
they were going to find him guilty on. And and
(10:40):
he obviously we saw the defense team looking deflated after
the first day of of deliberations. But then Mark told
the AP what he was going through that evening and
then into the night, and it was pretty fascinating to
hear where he was.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
We we tried to I remember this, and I'll give
you credit for it. You came to the conclusion before
Mark Agnefillo. Did I remember sitting out here? We're still here.
We've talked about we're on vacation. Now I'm sitting out
what is it ninety degrees? We are blazing out here
right now, looking at two pools in an ocean. So
all that's great, But we were sitting right out here
(11:18):
robes the other day and we were trying to piece
together last week when the verdicts came down, like, wait,
if they're hung up on this one, but they got
decision on those flour what does that mean? What does
that mean? Mark Agnifilo and Diddy and the team didn't
immediately know what it meant, apparently, but you put it
together just through common sense. You came up and explained
(11:40):
it to me. Said nope, you know what, They've only
got him on two, He said, because of sex trafficking.
If he was guilty on sex trafficking, he'd be guilty
on racketeering. They can't come to a decision on racketeering.
That means it can't be sex trafficking. That's exactly what
his turn he's figured out.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
I think he said it happened he came to that
epiphany at three o'clock in the morning. Any immediately when
he saw did hey, he told him, you're you're gonna
be okay. They're not going to get you on racketeering
because they can't get you on sex trafficking, which means
you're probably guilty of prostitution. And didn't he say that.
He called a fellow attorney on the team and said,
(12:14):
let's start working on bail because let's get him out
because if he's just found guilty on transportation for prostitution,
we have a chance of getting him out of prison.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
That is maybe the best detail from his interview with
the AP. And it's fascinating to me because you and
I we did this. If you all want to go
back and listen to that previous one where the day
that the jury came back and said they were deadlocked
on count one of racketeering, you and I were in
real to just look, what does this mean?
Speaker 2 (12:42):
What is it?
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Well, maybe it's this, maybe it's nothing, And you were
the one you said, nope, this is it, and I
agreed on the spot you are one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Right, because it suddenly made sense. It was funny that
our process was a little messy. We weren't. We didn't
have a planned out. We were just in real time
trying to spitball and figure out what could this mean?
What could it mean? And that's exactly what his legal
team did. And so the day that did he walked
in and that verdict was ready. The second day, he
seemed lighter, He seemed brighter because market already figured it
(13:13):
out and told him. And so now it's like he
had a confidence about him that he didn't have pe
step because the night before and when they left they
were hugging each other, there was concern. He told his
mom it's going to be okay, Like everybody was kind
of preparing for the potential worst, and then just an
epiphany happened and then suddenly there was confidence. There was
(13:33):
a little swagger. They knew what was coming.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
It makes sense you again, I want to give you
credit because I remember that moment. Oh, I wait a second,
if they had him guilty on sex trafficking, then blah
blah blah, and it makes sense. And they figured it out.
You figured it out faster than his attorney.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Did.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
I give you credit for it? They didn't figure out
They were.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Probably they were probably very emotional. We were detached and
being able to look at it from, you know, a
completely different point of view without being blurred by emotion.
Because can you even just the responsibility you feel as
an attorney, what you've probably prepared your client for, but
what you're hoping for, and then if it all goes
to shit, you know that you're the one who's going
to be blamed.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
And Agnaphillo has been with him throughout. He has been
with him even before he was actually arrested. I didn't realize,
but Agnafillo told him when his homes were rated in
twenty twenty th four, twenty four, gave him my heads up,
You're going to be arrested for sex trafficking. He said,
they're going to arrest you for sex traffic gave him
my heads up, so they knew it was coming. Didn't
(14:31):
exactly know when, but they knew it was coming. So
it is this guy. I don't want to interview him.
I want to sit down and have a drink.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
With him, Yeah, and just talk. It's fascinating, it really is.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Hear a lot of this stuff. But folks, stay with
us here when we come back on the other side.
Here what Agnafhillo now tells us Diddy is up to
and what he is going to be doing when he
eventually gets out of prison. Stay here, all right. We
(15:07):
continue now talking about Mark Agnafilo giving an interview with
the Associated Press, giving us some more details and insights
into what happened happened during the Ditty trial and around
the time of the verdict, and giving us some insights
into where Diddy's head is and what he is going
to be up to when he eventually gets out of prison,
but robes while this is going on around verdict time, Right,
(15:30):
he gets that good news if you will, about all
the verdicts. But we have to remember he still has
all these civil cases going on. Got hit with another
one what a day or so after the verdict actually
comes down, And look, we shouldn't be surprised by that,
but it was interesting here. Cassie Ventura Fine is named
(15:51):
in this new lawsuit.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Yes, his name is Clayton Howard and he was one
of the escorts who, according to TMZ, was a heart
of the prosecution's case. He was referred to by a pseudonym.
But he has now filed this lawsuit against Cassie and Diddy.
He says they drugged him, manipulated him, traumatized him, and
(16:13):
he said that Cassie reveled in Ditty's power. He painted
a very different picture of Cassie, he said. He claims
that she actually got pregnant by him, had an abortion,
didn't tell him. He claims he got an st D
from Cassie. I mean, he has put in some pretty
pretty outrageous details into this lawsuit and he we don't
(16:37):
of course, but he is speaking to a completely different
side of Cassie that was not talked about in court.
He very much said that Cassie embraced Ditty's power, that
he she used his power to manipulate him. So he, yeah,
has named them both and so yeah him, why didn't
(17:00):
they call him? I don't know that answer, you know, and.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
We're aware of him that did he have a different
story to tell that didn't go along with the case
they were trying to put on. That question will certainly
be asked, what you say, This is a guy they
were aware of and all of this, the detail he
appears to have, this is wild and we were talking
about Look, he is not. Look, people are on the
fence about it. How much was it consensual versus corrosion?
(17:28):
This back and forth, he is painting a picture of
her being a partner in crime with Ditty and they
as a duo are responsible for assaulting him.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Correct, And he also kind of well he doesn't kind of.
He goes after the prosecution saying that they were very
much aware that Cassie was what he said was a
co conspirator with Ditty, But he says they only cared
about getting Ditty, so they didn't mind putting Cassie up
as a victim when in his experience he claims she
wasn't because they only cared about bringing Diddy down.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Wow, So yes, that's still out there. We probably need
to do an update at some point. Yeah, the actual lawsuits, Yes,
like to get there is a collection out there of
the actual number and the count Go ahead, would.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
You Well, I was just gonna say, if you were
paying close attention to the trial, he was identified as
Dave during the racketeering trial, according to him, so there
were a few times where the prosecution referred to and
talked about this male exotic sex worker as Dave. He
says that was him. So he said, believe me, the
US Attorney's office knew my snore story, knew all about it.
(18:36):
They just didn't like what I had to say about Cassie,
and that's why he wasn't put up on the stand.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
And he according to him, there was some claim about
a delay. It was something with his attorney for why
why they didn't want the lawsuit to drop while the
trial was still going.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Correct, Because he was asked about that, he said he
did try. He said he wanted to file his civil
suit before or at least during the trial or whatever.
But he says his attorney, Tyrone Blackburn, was actually trying
to protect Cassie's reputation during the trial, so he wouldn't
allow his lawsuit to go forward until after the trial
so as to protect Cassie. These are all of his allegations.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
So yes, that's still happening. But yet, no matter what
happens with Diddy, and we talked about it robes anywhere
from the prosecution asking for as little as well. Was
it nine twenty one months, yes, and he served almost
ten now, so he might end up with just another
year in jail. The prosecution is asking for up to
five years, but again he served nine or ten months,
(19:31):
so worst case scenario, we're talking about four.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Years, and that's no one ever serves their actual sentence.
So he's looking at the most a couple of years
and that's it and he'll be out.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Is there a chance the judge doesn't send us them
to anything, because they're pretty plenty of legal experts saying
if this was a run of the meal person who
with no criminal background, with no convictions, no nothing, had
these charges, they go home.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Who knows, they we'd go home.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
But Agnefield, he didn't tell as much about how did
he was doing? Said he's okay. That's pretty much always
okay about did he being okay? But Rose, he's always
already talking about whenever did he gets out of prison,
we know immediately what did he's going to be doing?
And is not getting back into the studio. Is not
trying to rebuild any type of Combs enterprise or bad
boy entertainment. He's working on himself.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Yes, he said he's going to enter a program and
actually he said re enter a program for domestic abusers.
He said he had started the process before he was arrested.
He says that did he recognizes that he has a
lot of personal issues. I believe he said he has
personal flaws that he's now come to realize he has,
and that no amount of fame, no amount of fortune,
(20:43):
will erase him. That he has to do the work.
And so he says that his client is prepared to
do the work. I believe he said, yes, did he
burns hot in all matters? I mean, so basically he's admitting,
they're admitting that he has a massive anger issue or
you know, anger management issue. He can't control his rage.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Do we take look. I don't know is there a
redemption in this? It's hard when you see the video.
What do we do? I mean, what do we do?
I mean, we got years to figure that out. If
somebody never wants to see this man's face again, I
hear his name, I hear a single song, I would say, Okay,
that makes sense. I don't know what, grace. I don't
(21:21):
know how to go about when it's something this that
we saw and we heard so much about being that egregious. No,
I don't think it's mob boss type stuff, but some
pretty awful stuff it is.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
I am somebody who believes that most people can can
redeem themselves. But it's going to take a lot of time,
a lot of years, a lot of work, and a
lot of hard work, and he's going to have to
prove it publicly. I don't I mean, I don't know
that he'll. I mean, it's hard to imagine he'd ever
become anywhere close to the success he was beforehand. But
(21:59):
you know what, I am a believer in I am
a believer in redemption. But you have to do the time.
You have to pay the consequences first, and then you
have to do the work. I think you have to
have I mean, rehabilitation is huge and important, but I
think you have to you have to do the time first.
You have to be punished first. And that's what he's
going through right now.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Was that where we are, we're deciding whether or not
justice has been served based on the crimes that we saw. Yeah,
so what is the what is justice? Is it? So
many years in prison? Does it matter what the charge is?
I mean al Capone went to prison for tax evasion.
Correct the number of people he was responsible for killing
and the harm he did, but he still went to prison.
(22:38):
I mean, is that justice? I don't.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
It's a version of it. It might not be perfect,
but it's a version of it. And I think everyone
of the judge agreed that did he needed to stay
behind bars, that he was not someone that they could trust,
not only to not as a flight risk, but also
just his violent nature. And that makes a lot of sense.
So he you know, they got whether they say retribution
before rehabilitation. That is what's happening now, and it's good
(23:03):
to hear that. That is his plan when he gets
out is to go directly into a program for abusers.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Look those the women involved, Look I believe Mia yep,
I believe Jane, I believe cass even to refine, I
believe saying the stories they have. I believe that every
bit of those stories should be applied to a case
to put him away for domestic abuse, for whatever, violence,
(23:30):
for threats for what. I agree, no argument.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Just not for racketeering and conspiracy and sex trafficking.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
No argument people have. But I think that's now, unfortunately
to speeding that he got away with beating women. He
got away with abusing women.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
And that's the prosecution's fault, and that's just that's just
my humble opinion. And Tuesday tomorrow we are going to
get maybe a little bit more of a sense as
to when his sentencing will actually take place. It was
announced October third at the trial, but then the judge
decided that he would hear the defense's argument to expedite
(24:07):
that hearing so that he could go ahead and get
an earlier sentencing date so we can continue serving his time.
He's getting credit for time served. But we'll have more
information tomorrow after that. It's a video conference that's happening.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Uh yeah, I think just nothing in open court of
any kind. I don't think the public's going to see that.
I think is just really a private conference with the job.
I think that happens right, judges and the attorneys, yep,
just going to discuss so we should get some info
and see when he might be sentence. But they're trying
to speed this thing along. They've won now, let's the
clock is ticking on him getting out of jail.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Period. All right, Well, we will continue to update you,
believe me, anytime we get any more details about what happened.
We've heard from a futurors we've heard from but nothing,
nothing significant, So there's probably a lot more details to
come out, and certainly we'll let you know what happened
with tomorrow's conference. But thank you for listening to us.
As always, we appreciate you. I'm Ami robock On, behalf
(24:59):
of my partner T. J. Holmes. I hope you all
have a wonderful day today.
Hey, there're folks, it is fun Day, July seventh, and
this will be another important week for Sean Diddy Combs.
Last week was certainly a big week after a big win.
And you know what he got after that win, a
standing ovation from a crowd of folks. Who is lawyer
(00:22):
now says he should serve as an inspiration for woo
wee folks, welcome to this. Did he update of Amy
and TJ and Robes were so intrigued and so fascinated
trying to get details about what was going on in
that chord and the behind the scenes stuff. And we're
starting to get some Mark Agnifilo, who is without a
doubt going to be a household name and a star
(00:44):
moving forward. He gave an interview to the Associated Press
and some things jumped out, including the fact did he
get a standing ovation?
Speaker 2 (00:51):
That was a doozy? Right? That was a diddy doozy
To see that and to hear Mark Agnifilo talk about
what it was like the reception that did he go
when he left that courtroom and walked back into that
Brooklyn prison that they were all rallying around him. They
all were supportive and congratulating him. It's hard to imagine
(01:11):
what it's like to be Ditty in prison, and to
see that he had the support of his fellow inmates.
I guess maybe it shouldn't have been shocking, but it
kind of was.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Still when you hear some of the details, I suppose
some of it starts to make sense, but I guess
some initial headline thinking, this is a man who was
on trial for some pretty atrocious stuff. We saw him
do some awful monstrous stuff. If you take it just
on that level without the context, and to think that
(01:41):
he beat the case and anybody applauding, that seems a
little in bad taste.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
But these are fellow prisoners. These are people who have
also either been charged or convicted of probably other heinous acts,
certainly some of them violent. So perhaps it makes sense
if you think about it from that perspect because this
was kind of well, I believe Mark Agnefilo said, this
was a moment where these men in this prison, they
(02:09):
don't get to see anybody who beats the government, and
so this was a win in a weird way for
all of them.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
I take, and again I said, as in context of
a standing ovation, there are a lot of people, even
if they don't say it on social media, even they
don't say it publicly. They are, in their own way
applauding that the government didn't get away with what a
lot of people consider trumped up charges. This is rex
you're overreaching, and you should not be going out to
(02:38):
this man for this. You should be going out there
from this, this and this, which we all agree with
and we saw so in that context of Look, every
black man who gets charged with something in this country
is not Nelson Mandela. Okay, it's just not. But there
are plenty of black men who have plenty of experience,
and there's been plenty of evidence of how black men
have been treated by the justice system. So to walk
(02:59):
in to a prison and see, wow, you made it,
it was like they have almost something to aspire to
in applauding the fact that someone actually beat in a
way not got away with a crime. It's so different.
They're not applauding that he got away with a crime.
They're just applauding that the government didn't get you on
(03:21):
this bullshit. And a lot of them, I know everybody
don't sell block D that's the joke, says they're innocent.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Right, Yes, everyone, It wasn't them. They've been falsely accused.
They didn't do what they are charged with, certainly, but
this so I'm curious what you think Mark Agnefillo, when
he was giving this interview to the Associated Press talking
about this win that did he had, it was a
symbolic win for all of the black men incarcerated. I
(03:48):
think he said it was the best thing he could
do for incarcerated men in America.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
That's gonna be a stretch, that's gonna be That.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Was a lot for me to read.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
That's gonna be tough because of what It's so hard
to separate these two things. There are two things. It
is possible that the government overreached and did ditty wrong.
That's possible. It's hard, on the other hand, to say
it in the same breath that about a guy who
we know committed crimes that we saw and we would
(04:20):
have no problem with him going to Britain.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
They were indisputable and even he admitted to it. And
you said the prosecution did ditty wrong potentially by overreaching
and charging him with charges that weren't appropriate for the
crimes that he did commit. And I think a lot
of folks believe the prosecution did the victims wrong by
that as well?
Speaker 1 (04:40):
There you go, nail it. The government did everybody wrong.
It was wrong to go after Ditty in this way,
and it was wrong to the victims to do it.
I guess to stretch. It was a bit of a
stretch for what their experience was perhaps, and we're treating
them like what we always Domestic violence is so hard
(05:00):
in this country to deal with, to prosecute, to have
conversations about. And so we looked at a guy who's
a domestic abuser that don't we want we want them
all in prison.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Yes, and he should pay for those crimes.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Nobody's arguing that point. But they're not standing up and
applauding that he got away with beating the hell out
of women. Yeah, we got to be clear, that is
not what they're applauding. And I think the same thing
applied to the OJ Simpson trial, to where there were people,
white folks looking on one side going why are they
dancing and celebrating that this man got away with murder? No,
(05:35):
that's not what it was about.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
I'm I'm curious Mark Agnifilos that he talks to Diddy
four to five times a day, which I thought was
actually very interesting that that's how often they speak. But
when he said maybe it's this is what he relayed
to the AP that he told Diddy on one of
these phone calls, maybe it's your fate in life to
be the guy who wins. They need to see that
(06:00):
someone can win. And he said, I think he took
that to heart. Do you think that the reaction, even
by the fellow inmates, the support he obviously had from
his family and friends and from his legal team, do
you think that does change him that he feels now
maybe even like he is a role model. And that's
where I was getting a little bit concerned that somehow, okay, fine,
(06:23):
he didn't get charged with the things he shouldn't have
been charged with in the first place, but let's still
remember what he did and even what he admitted to doing.
Now to kind of act as if he's up on
a pedestal and can be a role model. This is
where I'm having a hard time with this. Now, we
can't take it too far the other direction. I can't.
I just don't think that's probably a good place for
anyone to consider him, or even for him to consider
(06:46):
himself in that category.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
We'd pite down a little bit on the idea of
him being a symbol, of him being hero of any kind.
And when nobody's going that far, I understand close it's saying,
but they never see anybody beat the government. Yes, and
that's fine on particular charges that account. I'm just using
(07:08):
that term loosely trumped up, but it is what it is.
And that's just the idea of anybody applauding or celebrating
in some way this man, Like even if you can
agree with the verdict, you still aren't hooting and hollering
and yay. That's just there's nothing about this case that
should be celebratory for anybody except quite frankly, for Diddy.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Right, and I could maybe be best in a private
celebration perhaps, But it was also interesting to hear Mark
talk to the AP about the defense strategy and how
they went about defending Diddy without ever putting a witness
on the stand.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
I thought it was interesting. This is a guy, Mark Agnifilo,
who was a federal prosecutor in Jersey who actually had
prosecuted gangs and other violent enterprises with racketeering, so he
knew federal rocketeering arges like nobody else inside, and that
was fascinating.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
He knew what he was doing, he knew what he
was up against, and he knew how to rip it apart.
He knew where the holes in that damn statue were,
he knew how to go after it. And the idea
they walked into court with the strategy of this, Yep,
he's an awful boyfriend. Yep, he beats women. That does
not make a racketeer. Yeah, he is not a sex
(08:27):
trafficking racketeer. He is an awful guy to date.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Right, they took they took the wind out of out
of the prosecution and sales by just fully admitting that
from the beginning and never trying to argue that he
was a good guy. They were like, yeah, he's a
terrible boyfriend, he's a violent boyfriend, but he is not
a sex trafficker and he wasn't involved in some racketeering conspiracy.
I mean, he said it was pretty interesting, he said,
(08:53):
because he knows racketeering so well, having been a federal prosecutor.
He said, if you know how the car works, you
know where the fail points are. And he said, this
prosecution had dozens, dozens of fall points.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
They tore it apart. It was almost shocking. This is
something they we teach kids this and as adults you
learn this thing, you take away somebody else's power to
insult you or come after you. If you just admit it,
if you say yep, I did that, you give them
nothing else, Like what's your next thing to say? If
I say, yeah, I'm violent, yep, I was on drugs, yep.
(09:30):
Treated those women terribly as a boyfriend, yep, domestic abuser,
all that stuff, Like, what's the next thing the prosecution
is going to say? Exactly, But but you gave two
pills to those two people, as your assistant brought to you.
Ha ha Stop.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
And he and Mark made such a good point. He
said they didn't have conspiracy because they basically just took
Diddy's private life and his deviant sexual ways and then
tried to build a racketeering case. He said, on personal assistance.
That's just common sense. It just didn't It did not
rise to that level. The jury is not stupid. The
(10:06):
jurors knew better, and they knew those weren't the charges
that he was actually guilty of.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
I say, your guy, Brendan Paul babyface, Yes he is
running and helping. Did he running come on?
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Just seeing seeing the personal assistance take the stand and
then still actually saying how much they loved and respected him.
It just it was now that you hear Mark talk
about it, and once you know, we were asking ourselves
when we were hearing all of the jury's questions and
wondering what they were thinking and which charges that, if any,
they were going to find him guilty on. And and
(10:40):
he obviously we saw the defense team looking deflated after
the first day of of deliberations. But then Mark told
the AP what he was going through that evening and
then into the night, and it was pretty fascinating to
hear where he was.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
We we tried to I remember this, and I'll give
you credit for it. You came to the conclusion before
Mark Agnefillo. Did I remember sitting out here? We're still here.
We've talked about we're on vacation. Now I'm sitting out
what is it ninety degrees? We are blazing out here
right now, looking at two pools in an ocean. So
all that's great, But we were sitting right out here
(11:18):
robes the other day and we were trying to piece
together last week when the verdicts came down, like, wait,
if they're hung up on this one, but they got
decision on those flour what does that mean? What does
that mean? Mark Agnifilo and Diddy and the team didn't
immediately know what it meant, apparently, but you put it
together just through common sense. You came up and explained
(11:40):
it to me. Said nope, you know what, They've only
got him on two, He said, because of sex trafficking.
If he was guilty on sex trafficking, he'd be guilty
on racketeering. They can't come to a decision on racketeering.
That means it can't be sex trafficking. That's exactly what
his turn he's figured out.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
I think he said it happened he came to that
epiphany at three o'clock in the morning. Any immediately when
he saw did hey, he told him, you're you're gonna
be okay. They're not going to get you on racketeering
because they can't get you on sex trafficking, which means
you're probably guilty of prostitution. And didn't he say that.
He called a fellow attorney on the team and said,
(12:14):
let's start working on bail because let's get him out
because if he's just found guilty on transportation for prostitution,
we have a chance of getting him out of prison.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
That is maybe the best detail from his interview with
the AP. And it's fascinating to me because you and
I we did this. If you all want to go
back and listen to that previous one where the day
that the jury came back and said they were deadlocked
on count one of racketeering, you and I were in
real to just look, what does this mean?
Speaker 2 (12:42):
What is it?
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Well, maybe it's this, maybe it's nothing, And you were
the one you said, nope, this is it, and I
agreed on the spot you are one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Right, because it suddenly made sense. It was funny that
our process was a little messy. We weren't. We didn't
have a planned out. We were just in real time
trying to spitball and figure out what could this mean?
What could it mean? And that's exactly what his legal
team did. And so the day that did he walked
in and that verdict was ready. The second day, he
seemed lighter, He seemed brighter because market already figured it
(13:13):
out and told him. And so now it's like he
had a confidence about him that he didn't have pe
step because the night before and when they left they
were hugging each other, there was concern. He told his
mom it's going to be okay, Like everybody was kind
of preparing for the potential worst, and then just an
epiphany happened and then suddenly there was confidence. There was
(13:33):
a little swagger. They knew what was coming.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
It makes sense you again, I want to give you
credit because I remember that moment. Oh, I wait a second,
if they had him guilty on sex trafficking, then blah
blah blah, and it makes sense. And they figured it out.
You figured it out faster than his attorney.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Did.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
I give you credit for it? They didn't figure out
They were.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Probably they were probably very emotional. We were detached and
being able to look at it from, you know, a
completely different point of view without being blurred by emotion.
Because can you even just the responsibility you feel as
an attorney, what you've probably prepared your client for, but
what you're hoping for, and then if it all goes
to shit, you know that you're the one who's going
to be blamed.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
And Agnaphillo has been with him throughout. He has been
with him even before he was actually arrested. I didn't realize,
but Agnafillo told him when his homes were rated in
twenty twenty th four, twenty four, gave him my heads up,
You're going to be arrested for sex trafficking. He said,
they're going to arrest you for sex traffic gave him
my heads up, so they knew it was coming. Didn't
(14:31):
exactly know when, but they knew it was coming. So
it is this guy. I don't want to interview him.
I want to sit down and have a drink.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
With him, Yeah, and just talk. It's fascinating, it really is.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Hear a lot of this stuff. But folks, stay with
us here when we come back on the other side.
Here what Agnafhillo now tells us Diddy is up to
and what he is going to be doing when he
eventually gets out of prison. Stay here, all right. We
(15:07):
continue now talking about Mark Agnafilo giving an interview with
the Associated Press, giving us some more details and insights
into what happened happened during the Ditty trial and around
the time of the verdict, and giving us some insights
into where Diddy's head is and what he is going
to be up to when he eventually gets out of prison,
but robes while this is going on around verdict time, Right,
(15:30):
he gets that good news if you will, about all
the verdicts. But we have to remember he still has
all these civil cases going on. Got hit with another
one what a day or so after the verdict actually
comes down, And look, we shouldn't be surprised by that,
but it was interesting here. Cassie Ventura Fine is named
(15:51):
in this new lawsuit.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Yes, his name is Clayton Howard and he was one
of the escorts who, according to TMZ, was a heart
of the prosecution's case. He was referred to by a pseudonym.
But he has now filed this lawsuit against Cassie and Diddy.
He says they drugged him, manipulated him, traumatized him, and
(16:13):
he said that Cassie reveled in Ditty's power. He painted
a very different picture of Cassie, he said. He claims
that she actually got pregnant by him, had an abortion,
didn't tell him. He claims he got an st D
from Cassie. I mean, he has put in some pretty
pretty outrageous details into this lawsuit and he we don't
(16:37):
of course, but he is speaking to a completely different
side of Cassie that was not talked about in court.
He very much said that Cassie embraced Ditty's power, that
he she used his power to manipulate him. So he, yeah,
has named them both and so yeah him, why didn't
(17:00):
they call him? I don't know that answer, you know, and.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
We're aware of him that did he have a different
story to tell that didn't go along with the case
they were trying to put on. That question will certainly
be asked, what you say, This is a guy they
were aware of and all of this, the detail he
appears to have, this is wild and we were talking
about Look, he is not. Look, people are on the
fence about it. How much was it consensual versus corrosion?
(17:28):
This back and forth, he is painting a picture of
her being a partner in crime with Ditty and they
as a duo are responsible for assaulting him.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Correct, And he also kind of well he doesn't kind of.
He goes after the prosecution saying that they were very
much aware that Cassie was what he said was a
co conspirator with Ditty, But he says they only cared
about getting Ditty, so they didn't mind putting Cassie up
as a victim when in his experience he claims she
wasn't because they only cared about bringing Diddy down.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Wow, So yes, that's still out there. We probably need
to do an update at some point. Yeah, the actual lawsuits, Yes,
like to get there is a collection out there of
the actual number and the count Go ahead, would.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
You Well, I was just gonna say, if you were
paying close attention to the trial, he was identified as
Dave during the racketeering trial, according to him, so there
were a few times where the prosecution referred to and
talked about this male exotic sex worker as Dave. He
says that was him. So he said, believe me, the
US Attorney's office knew my snore story, knew all about it.
(18:36):
They just didn't like what I had to say about Cassie,
and that's why he wasn't put up on the stand.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
And he according to him, there was some claim about
a delay. It was something with his attorney for why
why they didn't want the lawsuit to drop while the
trial was still going.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Correct, Because he was asked about that, he said he
did try. He said he wanted to file his civil
suit before or at least during the trial or whatever.
But he says his attorney, Tyrone Blackburn, was actually trying
to protect Cassie's reputation during the trial, so he wouldn't
allow his lawsuit to go forward until after the trial
so as to protect Cassie. These are all of his allegations.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
So yes, that's still happening. But yet, no matter what
happens with Diddy, and we talked about it robes anywhere
from the prosecution asking for as little as well. Was
it nine twenty one months, yes, and he served almost
ten now, so he might end up with just another
year in jail. The prosecution is asking for up to
five years, but again he served nine or ten months,
(19:31):
so worst case scenario, we're talking about four.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Years, and that's no one ever serves their actual sentence.
So he's looking at the most a couple of years
and that's it and he'll be out.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Is there a chance the judge doesn't send us them
to anything, because they're pretty plenty of legal experts saying
if this was a run of the meal person who
with no criminal background, with no convictions, no nothing, had
these charges, they go home.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Who knows, they we'd go home.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
But Agnefield, he didn't tell as much about how did
he was doing? Said he's okay. That's pretty much always
okay about did he being okay? But Rose, he's always
already talking about whenever did he gets out of prison,
we know immediately what did he's going to be doing?
And is not getting back into the studio. Is not
trying to rebuild any type of Combs enterprise or bad
boy entertainment. He's working on himself.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Yes, he said he's going to enter a program and
actually he said re enter a program for domestic abusers.
He said he had started the process before he was arrested.
He says that did he recognizes that he has a
lot of personal issues. I believe he said he has
personal flaws that he's now come to realize he has,
and that no amount of fame, no amount of fortune,
(20:43):
will erase him. That he has to do the work.
And so he says that his client is prepared to
do the work. I believe he said, yes, did he
burns hot in all matters? I mean, so basically he's admitting,
they're admitting that he has a massive anger issue or
you know, anger management issue. He can't control his rage.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Do we take look. I don't know is there a
redemption in this? It's hard when you see the video.
What do we do? I mean, what do we do?
I mean, we got years to figure that out. If
somebody never wants to see this man's face again, I
hear his name, I hear a single song, I would say, Okay,
that makes sense. I don't know what, grace. I don't
(21:21):
know how to go about when it's something this that
we saw and we heard so much about being that egregious. No,
I don't think it's mob boss type stuff, but some
pretty awful stuff it is.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
I am somebody who believes that most people can can
redeem themselves. But it's going to take a lot of time,
a lot of years, a lot of work, and a
lot of hard work, and he's going to have to
prove it publicly. I don't I mean, I don't know
that he'll. I mean, it's hard to imagine he'd ever
become anywhere close to the success he was beforehand. But
(21:59):
you know what, I am a believer in I am
a believer in redemption. But you have to do the time.
You have to pay the consequences first, and then you
have to do the work. I think you have to
have I mean, rehabilitation is huge and important, but I
think you have to you have to do the time first.
You have to be punished first. And that's what he's
going through right now.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Was that where we are, we're deciding whether or not
justice has been served based on the crimes that we saw. Yeah,
so what is the what is justice? Is it? So
many years in prison? Does it matter what the charge is?
I mean al Capone went to prison for tax evasion.
Correct the number of people he was responsible for killing
and the harm he did, but he still went to prison.
(22:38):
I mean, is that justice? I don't.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
It's a version of it. It might not be perfect,
but it's a version of it. And I think everyone
of the judge agreed that did he needed to stay
behind bars, that he was not someone that they could trust,
not only to not as a flight risk, but also
just his violent nature. And that makes a lot of sense.
So he you know, they got whether they say retribution
before rehabilitation. That is what's happening now, and it's good
(23:03):
to hear that. That is his plan when he gets
out is to go directly into a program for abusers.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Look those the women involved, Look I believe Mia yep,
I believe Jane, I believe cass even to refine, I
believe saying the stories they have. I believe that every
bit of those stories should be applied to a case
to put him away for domestic abuse, for whatever, violence,
(23:30):
for threats for what. I agree, no argument.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Just not for racketeering and conspiracy and sex trafficking.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
No argument people have. But I think that's now, unfortunately
to speeding that he got away with beating women. He
got away with abusing women.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
And that's the prosecution's fault, and that's just that's just
my humble opinion. And Tuesday tomorrow we are going to
get maybe a little bit more of a sense as
to when his sentencing will actually take place. It was
announced October third at the trial, but then the judge
decided that he would hear the defense's argument to expedite
(24:07):
that hearing so that he could go ahead and get
an earlier sentencing date so we can continue serving his time.
He's getting credit for time served. But we'll have more
information tomorrow after that. It's a video conference that's happening.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Uh yeah, I think just nothing in open court of
any kind. I don't think the public's going to see that.
I think is just really a private conference with the job.
I think that happens right, judges and the attorneys, yep,
just going to discuss so we should get some info
and see when he might be sentence. But they're trying
to speed this thing along. They've won now, let's the
clock is ticking on him getting out of jail.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Period. All right, Well, we will continue to update you,
believe me, anytime we get any more details about what happened.
We've heard from a futurors we've heard from but nothing,
nothing significant, So there's probably a lot more details to
come out, and certainly we'll let you know what happened
with tomorrow's conference. But thank you for listening to us.
As always, we appreciate you. I'm Ami robock On, behalf
(24:59):
of my partner T. J. Holmes. I hope you all
have a wonderful day today.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.