December 15, 2025 • 51 mins
She broke barriers as the first black transgender 'Victoria’s Secret' model to sashay down the runway, and she’s just getting started. Hear how her journey began in Dubai, then NYU, and ultimately towards a fabulous career in fashion. Plus, why she gets emotional when remembering the day she told her parents she wanted to transition.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey guys, and welcome back to another week of Casual Chaos.
This week, I have a very exciting guest, a dear
friend of mine and one of my castmates on Next Gen,
myc Amir de Spain. Welcome to Casual Chaos. Hi, I'm
really excited for you to be here today. I feel
like your story is so inspiring and you can just
help guide so many others who are going through this
(00:25):
or struggling with anything, and I really am so happy
that you feel comfortable to share it on.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Casual Chaos, of course.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
And I'm excited because even though I know we're so close,
I'm excited for this podcast to even get to know
a little bit more about you.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Yeah, And honestly, like, I feel like there's no one
that I would feel even more comfortable doing this with.
It's like you're like one of my dear friends, and
I love that we are able to do this. So
thanks for having me, no problem.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
She is an icon, She is a legend, and she
has broken so many barriers, so starting first and foremost,
becoming the first black transgender woman to model for Victoria's Secret.
She did an insane campaign with Victoria's Secret.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
How did that feel.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
I mean, it's definitely amazing. I've worked with them for
so many years now and their team is so incredible.
I just I like love them all so much. Yeah,
it's it's like a childhood dream come true. I feel
like every girl dreams of that, and I don't know,
it was really cool.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
It was an iconic woman.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
And then even this year at the VS Fashion Show,
your outfit, yes, I mean that, and then also just
the Wicked Amira she has outfits, guys, and you would
think that she was in the damn movie Wicked.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Or you would think that she is one of those.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
VS angels walking on the fashion show. But it is incredible.
Like the thought and effort you put into each one
of your pieces is insane.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Thank you. I mean I really try my best to
like take the time and like I design things based
on off of like my vibe and my like the
mood of that event or that night, or like whatever
it is I'm going for, And yeah, it all just
comes to me, it.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Comes to you.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
And also to making history as Bravo's first full time
transgender cast member. Yes, there is so many walls that
have been broken, and how does it feel to do that?
Speaker 3 (02:24):
I mean, it's definitely sometimes feels like a lot of
weight because it feels like I have to, I guess,
maintain an expectation that people have because I'm representing not
just myself but pretty much the entire LGBTQ community, but
specifically in my community. Yeah, and so I feel like
I have this pressure to portray myself in the best way,
(02:46):
and sometimes that forces me to be a little more
closed off, and I want to open up as much
as I can, and I feel like I'm slowly coming
out of my shell in that way. And I'm such
an open person with my friends and stuff. It's just
like with the world, it's so easy to like close
yourself off, you know.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
I mean, there's also just a lot that comes with it, Judgment,
the fear of not being accepted. There's just a lot
to it. And I'm so happy that. Honestly, I think
our generation broke a lot of fourth walls and just
seeing everything and we'll talk more about it, but even
like the shift within brands, within networks, everything, just seeing
(03:30):
how each one of these different platforms are becoming so
much more accepting of everybody, and that's really beautiful to see.
Because that was something that I feel like probably instilled
fear and many people to not be their true self.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
And it doesn't end there.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Guys, You've also greased the cover of Glamour, been featured
in Nylon and modeled for major brands like Fenty Beauty
and Nars.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Guys, she met Rihanna and Barbados. Can you imagine standing
there and Rihanna just enters the.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Building literally like hey, Jay in hand? No, yeah, you kidding.
She's a legend. It was so crazy, like she loves
my mom really and.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
I'm like, can you just come here literally please?
Speaker 3 (04:23):
I just want to meet you, or we all should
take a trip to Barbados to her house.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
That's where you were.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Yeah, we went to Barbados in her house. No, no, not
in her house. She had like a it was like
a resort. I guess way.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
She was that willing to do that, literally, but she would.
She's amazing. She's just so freaking amazing.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
When you look back at the start of your career,
did you ever imagine that it would have led to this?
Speaker 3 (04:49):
As much as I want to say no and like that,
it was like such a surprise and like that it like, yes,
I can't imagine it because genuinely, like my mom can
go back and find things that I drew when I
was a kid, and it's exactly what I imagined, Like
every single thing, down to being on a show, down
to having like an audience of some sort, down to
(05:13):
having a closet full of burkins. That was literally something
I drew as a child. As crazy as that is,
Like what kid dreams of that? In like the two thousand?
Speaker 2 (05:20):
No, literally, how'd you even know what a burg exactly right?
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Right?
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Did your mom have them?
Speaker 3 (05:25):
She did? I think she had like one or two,
okay back then, But that's why.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
One above them beyond she's got a lockdoor closet fall
no one is breaking into.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Her burken period. But that's you know what I mean.
Like it's like I genuinely feel like I've manifested everything,
and yes it's hard work, but also like I feel
like I wanted it so badly and there's like nothing
that was going to stop me from like achieving my dreams.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Yeah, the Victoria's Secret campaign? How did that come about?
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Yeah? So honestly, we had I had a few friends
that worked there, and they I guess had been having
conversations about me prior to my knowledge, Like this was
like in like twenty twenty, and I didn't really know
anything that was happening behind the scenes.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
But was this your first big campaign?
Speaker 3 (06:14):
This was my first big campaign. And this was also
the first thing that I did when I was still
working a corporate job. So I was working at Paper
at the time, Paper magazine.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
And for anyone who doesn't know, Amira went to n YU,
Yeah she is very smart, guys, I'm not kidding, very
very smart. I was actually talking to Andrew, my podcast producer,
before this, and didn't you win an award at NYU,
Like I don't want to say valedictorian or was it?
Speaker 3 (06:43):
No, it was. I graduated with honors. I was in
the top ten percent of NYU. This is what I'm
saying you, guys.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Very smart. Amiraa is very smart.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
And what did you major minor in?
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Well so I double majored in marketing and communications, and
then I was trying to in computer science, but I
didn't have enough time. I was very stressed out during college.
I did not have like the fun party college experience
that I so badly sometimes wish I did. No.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
It's so funny because I feel like when we're out,
you're like, well, I'm doing this now because I didn't
do this when I was younger. And it's so funny
because you have you have such a fun spirit. But
it's you know, again, hard work pays off. So you
grinded to get where you are today.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
That's very true.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Yeah, so again, back back to VS.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Back to Yeah, so back to that campaign. So then, I, yes,
I was working full time at Paper and when that
campaign came out, it was the campaign wasn't even that big,
but the press like picked it up and turned it
into like this whole thing. And I remember like at
the time, the CEO of Paper was in the Hamptons
(07:52):
and he calls me that morning and he's like, why
did I just get the New York Post delivered to
my house and you're on it? And I was like,
what do you mean? And I like like woke up
and I was like in bed stuf. I was getting
ready to go to the office. I was like wait
what and I like open my computer and it's like
all over the news and I was like, oh my god.
I was like now I have to go in the
office and I'm like, hey, guys, I'm.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Just a normal.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
I was doing that on the side.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
It's so funny.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
But but I mean, I feel like it was so
big and so monumental for VS. In itself. The evolution
of Victoria's Secret in itself is crazy. The whole world
has transformed as people like you have broken down these
fourth walls.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
So yeah, one hundred percent. I mean, and I think
for them too, it's like it took them a minute
to find their footing. I think they they thought that
by stripping back everything, I feel like was the right move.
But people still want the glitz, they still want the glam.
They still want like you know, Victoria's Secrets glam.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Oh yeah, and we still want to see the VS
Fashion show exactly. The wings are ecologic to see it.
I want to see Candace walking down that runway.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Hundred percent. I think they have finally gotten it, right, Like,
I mean think this year was incredible, like they like,
really they get it now. It took them like a
couple of years and then they're like they're back.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Yeah, No, they're so back.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
How do you feel like these brands have evolved over
the years with their representation.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
I mean, I think that the pandemic really gave brands
a lot of space to kind of reform a lot
of the ways that they were operating in a really
positive way. I think a lot of brands. That was
around the time when a lot of brands started doing,
you know, being more inclusive and wanting to have more
diversity and inclusion in any aspect. And like whether that's
(09:46):
on the back end of like who's sitting at the
table making the decisions, and then whether that's on the
front end of who's starring in the campaigns. And I
think it goes both ways. I feel like it maybe
went a little too far and I feel like people
got fatigue by it, which is really sad. But it's
also kind of detrimental to like the entire aspect of it.
(10:06):
Like I think there's a balance between showing something that's
like aspirational and beautiful and you want to attain that
one day, Like it's just like a dream to have
perfectly clear skin and a beauty ad, you know, versus
like showing someone with acne. It's like, oh, that's relatable.
I have acne. I can see myself using you know,
this blush or whatever it is. I think now we're
(10:27):
in a space where brands are still trying to find
that in between space, and I think VS is a
wonderful example of that. They really have found that in
between of like how to keep it aspirational at the
same time keep it you know, real.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Yeah, and I mean that just like shows, especially like
the transformation of social media, I mean it could go
back to VS.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Yeah, of course.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
I feel like they were like the staple and mold
to like what everyone looked up to. And it was
when social media had to be so perfect and all
the pictures had to be perfect, and everything that we
did felt like it had.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
To be perfect. Now no one wants to see that.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
They want to see us waking up out of bed
looking like they want us to, you know, show our drunk,
funny moments.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Or shocks off like they want everything.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
They want all of that because they feel like it's
authentic and that, like, you know, people can relate to us,
and that's what you want when you are connecting with
your audience, when you are too perfect. And I'm guilty,
I used to do that. I used to feel like, okay,
everything has to be perfect. Oh I can't post that
because I slipped there that's.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Not going to look good.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
But now I'm like, I love you guys. You're like
my second family. I don't care what it's we'll talk
about it. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
I was hammered last night.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Yeah, not feeling too great this morning. Like it's just
it's fun. And I feel like that's why this space is.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
So comfortable now.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
And I think people are growing more and more because
people are blowing up overnight, and it's because of how
relatable they are and how authentic they are.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
So true.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
So we are in the middle of filming season two
of Next Gen NYC.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
How are you feeling this year.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
I'm feeling good. I'm apprehensive a little bit. It's a
little nerve wracking for me. Last year when we were filming,
I was definitely more reserved, and obviously I wasn't in
as many scenes as I could have been because I
was just too busy. Yeah. Right, we've found well, we
filmed kind of like I mean, I think that that's
(12:38):
like our peak season right as creators like, the summer
really is like one of the busiest times of year.
There's so many campaigns or so many like brand trips
and opportunities that all happen in the summer and we
were filming kind of like right in the middle of
Pride too, so I had a lot. Yeah, so I
had a lot going on, so I wasn't able to
be as present this year. I feel like I am
(13:02):
making more time for it. I'm definitely i would say,
probably just as busy, but I've prioritized, you know, being
part of the show more. And it's hard. I mean,
it definitely takes a toll on some aspects of my
personal life, my relationships and my friendships, and like, I'm
sure you can relate to this. It's like people who
(13:22):
don't get this industry, it's like really difficult to explain
to them that, like we work so much.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
We work so much.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
And it's funny because I feel like now my fan
base is starting to kind.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Of get it. Yeah, but for the longest time, where's
your job?
Speaker 3 (13:41):
They're like, what do you do?
Speaker 2 (13:42):
What are you doing? And I'm like, only if.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
You know I'm sleeping with three hours a night, I'm like,
what do you mean, Like.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
I'm actually working all the time.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
And it's just, you know, I think that's a part
of this industry that's really frustrating, because we really do
work so hard, and it can come to the point
of us literally filming content every day but then having.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
To edit it all night. That's still work.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Okay, Yeah, we're going about our daily life, but we're
filming content.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
That's still our work.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Then on top of it, the brand deals, the campaigns,
the brand trips, there's so many other things that come
with it. And yes, sometimes it is luxurious and sometimes
it is a lot of fun, but it's still work.
It's just a different type of work. You can't compare
a lawyer to a doctor two different things, or a
finance bro to a veterinarian very different. Like every line
(14:40):
of work is so different. And I think that's something
in our industry that's like very frustrating because it almost
feels like we always kind of have to explain ourselves
about what we're doing for work.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Like this, Yes, this is work, this has work right
right here, right now.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
I mean when I was working, when I first started
doing content in twenty twenty, and I was working a
full time job and trying to do content creation on
the side, it was like, I would say, more work
to do the content side. I mean I would wake
up at four and I would film from like five
to nine, and then I'd go in my office at
nine point thirty and then I'd come home at six,
(15:18):
and then i would edit from seven to ten, and
then I'd go to bed at eleven and then repeat
it every single day. Yeah, Like it was like more
work to do the content side than my actual job
one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Yeah, because again, it's all about how you edit, how
you perform, how you present yourself, and that's you know,
and then you learn every day and you critique yourself
so then changes are made.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
But it really is. I mean i could sit there
for hours editing my content and I'm like, whoa, Okay,
this is a lot.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Literally, But what were your initial thoughts when you heard
about next Gen Am?
Speaker 3 (15:51):
I say, honestly, I was really excited because I am
I'm a Brava fan. I love the Housewives, and I
feel like this was missing for so long, no long.
It kind of blows my mind that no one thought
of this sooner. I know, like, I feel like it
would have done well like all these numbories.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
It really would have. And I mean I couldn't tell
you what the reason was.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Maybe you know, they were waiting for some of the
Bravo kids to you.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
Know, grow up a little bit.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Yeah, be a little older.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
But they Bravo is trying so hard to bring young
energy onto the network, which is why obviously, yes they
had Summer House, they had Winter House, Southern Charm, these
young vander Pump rules.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Uh huh.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
But all of these shows are they're all getting old now,
so it's crazy, Like Summer House, they're so young and
their personalities are amazing. I love all of them, but
they're getting old to keep doing Summers in the Hamptons,
which is why now they're obviously transitioning to New York
and they're reinventing Summerhouse a little bit now with younger faces.
(16:56):
Even when it comes to the housewives, you got to
always kind of keep the og, but you also have
to add.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
In some some new faces.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Yep, new faces, younger faces, because they like seeing that
that like the growing period. So like to see like
she's my mom as an example, because it's easy. But
like starting twenty years ago on Bravo, watching her entire
family grow up and then now her daughter's on Bravo,
it's like a really cool, like full circle transitional moment.
(17:24):
And then but I mean I did not think that
next Gen was going to be what it was today
and it's sane, insane, Like everyone loved us at Bravo.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Con like I genuinely think, I mean I know you
and I specifically like we had this conversation too. We
were like genuinely so shocked at how well it did
because we were like.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
I thought it was gonna be hard.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Yeah, we were like, well, it's just like kind of
like us like sitting around like like doing our regular lives,
like and it was.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Fun because the season one and I think that's why
season two is I think a lot better for all
of us.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
We're I think we're all realizing.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
The time and effort you need to put into this
show to really show who you are. The more time
you put into it, the more people get to know you,
the more they see your personality, and it's really what
you give.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
And season one it was a.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Little awkward because we didn't know everybody, so it was
like we were trying to get to know everyone, but
at the same time, we had to do a reality
TV show, so it's like, but I'm gonna start drama
with you when I don't.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Even know what pisses you off, Like it was very
like it was hard.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
It was definitely hard season one two, Like when the
whole there was like this whole narrative that was going
about prior to us filming of like the Bravo Kids
versus the non Bravo Kids, and it all started with
like a Reddit thread or something long before we even
started filming.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
I think maybe when we were filming the Sizzle.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Yeah, probably when we were filming the Sizzle.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
And I genuinely think that obviously the show would be
nothing without the Bravo Kids obviously, but on top of that,
but you might know, but it.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Brings so much to the show that wouldn't be possible without.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
You guys, right. But I feel like that that created
like that awkwardness or that tension in the first season
where like everyone wasn't as close.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
I mean you and I got close pretty fast, and
Arianna too. Yeah, And I feel like I knew everyone,
but I feel like everyone didn't know one another. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
And that's what I think people can be get really
excited for for season two because they're such a deeper
dynamic and now it's like all bets are off, people,
we're going in.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Literally we've all spent so much time together, like even
outside of like filming, like.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Yeah, we're close now, yeah, maybe too close.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Everyone's trauma phoned it from living here in the city.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Did you immediately want to be on the show?
Speaker 3 (20:08):
Honestly? I had to think about it a little bit
because Brooks was the one who first brought it up
to me. He brought up to you too, right, yeah,
And I was like okay. I was like, well, what's
it going to be? I was like, what's the And
it was called something Else at first, and the name
kind of turned me off a little bit, and I
was like, well, I was like all right, like maybe
and yeah, I finally came around to it. He really
(20:32):
he like pitched me the show in a really I
guess likable way, like it made me want to do it,
you know, of course.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
I mean when you.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
The show really is the pivotal point to like expand
your brand and you know, show more of you and
just you know, let people get a deeper dive.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Into your life.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
And sometimes for people that's a blessing and sometimes it's
a curse. It's true, so it's you know, you just
gotta when joining reality TV, I always say, make sure
you got enough skeletons in your cloths.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Oh my god. Well some of these people have definitely
quite a few skeletons in there.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Oh I know, and not many of these people just
don't care. They're like, oh what, I'm like, my skeletons
are already out. You want to say something. I mean,
it's like my skeletons but like they're out right, they're out.
What was your first impression of me when we met?
Speaker 3 (21:31):
My first impression of you was definitely your like stunning,
So like that was probably number one. Number two was
probably like, damn, I can't wear heels if we're taking
a picture together again, every time Ga and I are
taking pictures, I'm always wearing the highest heel.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
We're always paired guys.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Always at Bravo con who does the photo ops together?
Me and Amira obviously so happy. I was with her
all day every day. But we're standing there and I
was seeing so many comments on TikTok being like, oh
my gosh, she is so tiny.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
The height difference is great, literally, and it's funny because
almost all of my closest friends are so much shorter
than me, and like my best friend in high school
was four to eleven and like all of my closest friends
like four eleven, five to one, five to two, I'm
like great, like love.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
It, no the biggest like it boored my heart. We're
about to go into our photo op at Brabo cod
and girl. I made sure I didn't where the platforms
dress for you.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Oh, they didn't do the platforms.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
It's like the fact that a mirror sacrificed the heel
she wanted to wear for me.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
That's a big deal.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
So your background is so layered. You grew up in Texas,
your mom was living in Dubai.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
I want the whole breakdown.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
But then you also made your way to New York
when you were going to NYU tell me all about this.
How did your mom make it to Texas? Like where
did this all happen?
Speaker 3 (22:55):
So my parents met when they were both working in Dubai.
My dad was their tail. Yeah, they were both working
in Dubai and it was really cool. And so I
was born in Dubai and I lived there for the
first like three years of my life, and then we
moved to the States. We lived in Kansas for like
a few months. That's where the twins were born. We
lived in Overland Park. Then we moved to Florida and
(23:16):
we lived there for like four years, and then we
were like back and forth, like traveling around. So I
was homeschooled until I was in the fifth grade.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Wow. So they never admitted you into school.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
No, because it was too difficult. So I travel around.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Not your brother's either that.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
Yeah, we were all homeschooled.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
And then in the fifth grade was when my parents
got divorced. So then I had to go to regular
school because my mom had to go to work, you know.
And yeah, so then I went to a private fine
arts high school and I used to dance competitively, like
did theater was the theater kid? Cringe?
Speaker 2 (23:51):
And then I had I just had Ella Stiller.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
Oh yeah, oh my god, awesome. I mean her parents
are icons literally icon.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
But she literally said I feel like every little kid
should be in theater. As I said it, she was like,
it's so good for your personality, like.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
Your confidence, yes, everything, I mean truly like in dance too,
I mean like it really teaches you how to handle
rejection in such as right and criticism in such a
like positive way and like take it on the chin
and be like okay, yeah, it's not personal, but yeah.
So then I graduated from high school and I went
to I actually did my freshman year at NYU in Paris,
(24:27):
so I was at NYU's Paris campus and then I
and then I transferred to NYU Manhattan sophomore year and
I was in college, graduated, was working at Paper magazine.
I was an intern there. It was the only job
I ever really had. I started as an intern on
the marketing side, so I worked on the ad agency side,
and I was like the only intern and I was
(24:48):
doing like a full time job, you know. And I love,
I like have so much love and respect for my
entire paper team, Like they were incredible. Some of them
are still there today. Them have like moved on and
they're the best. They gave me the opportunity because they
saw how much I loved beauty. So they were like,
do you want to start writing for the site? Do
you want to just like randomly help us launch a
(25:09):
beauty thing, because we don't really do beauty. They do fashion.
They did mostly. It was mostly fashion and music, and
so they were aside from the agency marketing side of it,
which was like separate from the magazine. So I was
like pitching influencers for like events and stuff. Little did
I know? I know, isn't that crazy? Now?
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Wait, that's so funny.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
And like building pitch decks and like putting people. I'm
gonna probably put you or your mom and at some
point and that was like in twenty seventeen, woh yeah,
and then or twenty seventeen to twenty nineteen, I worked
on the marketing side. Then I transitioned over the editorial side,
and now you booked there. For a while, I was
an intern though I like, I didn't graduate until twenty nineteen,
(25:50):
but I was like a full time employee, unpaid intern
love New York.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
And you weren't paid this entire time?
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Oh no, no, what? Yeah? Then I got hired full
time when I grab because they couldn't hire me because
I was in school.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Okay, but why do interns get paid now?
Speaker 3 (26:03):
Like myster there's a law now that got passed. Back
then there was not. They were like you're an intern,
They're like, you want to be here.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
See so for three years you did.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
That sophomore year through senior year, and then I worked
there for two years post college. So I graduated and
I got hired full time I was on the marketing
side and the editorial side for like a hybrid, and
then I started doing editorial beauty content for them. So
I was posting like tiktoks and doing like like I
had a snapchat show on Paper's Snapchat channel called Snatchurl.
(26:36):
It was really fun. And then I was doing my
own beauty content on the side. Like I said, I'd
wake up at like four am to film and it
was crazy, but it paid off. I mean I started
doing better than the Paper one and I was like, Okay,
I want to focus on this now. Clearly there's something there.
And I quit my job and that was quit my
job in twenty twenty one. So yeah, yeah, twenty twenty one,
(26:58):
it's been.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Like five years. Yeah, building your career. Yeah wow, that's incredible.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
Crazy.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
So then when did it really take off where you
felt like I'm good now to be on my own,
Like when were you really taking care of yourself fully?
Speaker 3 (27:14):
I think twenty twenty one, Like I started, like when
I was able, I worked at Paper for a while
while I was still doing content full time or part time,
because I was I wanted to make sure that this
was like a sustainable business. Obviously my parents too, and
like they didn't really understand it, like, yeah, my mom's
an immigrant. She's like not, She's like, I mean you
need to stay focused. I'm like okay, I'm like yes, mom,
(27:39):
I mean same, Yeah, I'm like all right. But they
finally saw the vision. My mom and my dad both dead,
and they were like all right, if this is like
what you want to pursue, like they'll support it, but
like you got to handle I go off. I was
like okay, and I did, and.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
You did and you did. So take me back a
little bit.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
When did you know that transitioning was something that you
wanted to do.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
I mean, honestly, it's so crazy because there's not like
a singular point I can look back at and say like, oh,
Like this was a moment where I realized that I
think my parents always knew. Like even as a kid,
I was never like I didn't have a blue I
had a pink room growing up my entire life. I
asked my parents. I was like, I want a pink
room and I was like four, and they were like okay,
(28:24):
I guess They're like go for it. And I only
had barbies. I grew up very much like any other
girl would. And I think that my parents let me
be myself from such a young age. It was never
really a question, Like I never had to like sit
down to my parents and come out to them. And
I think that's just like a testament to how incredible
(28:46):
they raised me. And I like have so much love
and respect for my parents, and I wish so badly
that every kid could have that, because I know that's
not the case for a majority of kids in the
LGBTQ community. But yeah, that was it was amazing, like
genuinely like they always supported Yeah, they always supported me.
(29:06):
They never questioned anything really.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
And I honestly, I think that's the biggest struggle. People
do come out, but they're scared. They're scared because of
just the old school mentality and what was expected because
how that how that works in Italy was you are
raised to get married and have a family. Yeah, and
(29:30):
that is and that is that is it. It's very
plain and simple. So they're like, if you can't follow it,
what it's like, this is this is the this is
the the look book basically gets.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Drawn out for you. So I mean, I totally get it,
and I to.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Have to for a kid to fear telling their parents
something that it breaks my heart.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
It does, and it also like it really does affect them,
like even beyond their childhood. Of course, like when you
grow up with that sense of like fear, I feel
like you're not able to ever reach the level of
confidence that will make you like successful in a business sense,
successful in like a like relationship with like a significant other.
I feel like it really does create like a like
(30:13):
a dark cloud that like you have to like deal
with when you get older.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, even in you know again, like
you were saying, like confidence in school, even as like
a little kid, it could probably that that could stick
with you forever. That's why so many people always talk
about like drama, it happens when you're younger.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
It's true.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
It happens when you're younger and stays with you until
you're older.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
And it's a matter of how you work towards that
to resolve it, whether it's therapy or but all the
issues start from whatever.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
You experienced when you were younger.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
So obviously, you know your family was so amazing during
your transition, and I'm so happy for you that you
have such an amazing support system.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
How are your friends.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
I mean, everyone was very much. I don't like to
say this, but I do feel like it's true. I
think I grew up in a little bit of a bubble,
like even in college, like I would say, like up
until even when I was working a full time job,
Like I was very much growing up in a bubble,
And like I spent so much of my life surrounded
(31:19):
by people who just didn't question me, let me live
my life, let me be myself, and for better or worse,
it created like this sense of like blind confidence of like, well,
if everyone's believing in me, then I guess I gotta
believe in myself too. So yeah, all my friends were
so supportive. Like everyone I worked with was supportive. Everyone
(31:41):
I went to school with was supportive. Of all the teachers,
Like everybody was just like Letimira do her thing, like
she's figuring herself out.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
What do you think the hardest part of your transition
process was the emotional side or the physical side.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
I think it was probably the emotional side. Like I
think that I I knew that I had just like
I knew I felt this need that I had to
like live my life the way that I wanted to,
and it was never really a question of like disappointing
anyone or like changing myself or anything. I think the
emotional side was just like knowing that there are some
things that I may have missed out on, like growing up,
(32:18):
and looking back on that, I wish that, you know,
like I wish I could go back in time and like,
you know, have transitioned younger or maybe if I was
you know whatever. Yeah. Yeah, So I think that for me,
coming to terms with being able to live my life
how I want now and who I am now, and that,
to me is has been the hardest part, but it's
(32:41):
been good. Like I don't think I don't think about
it as much anymore.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
And you shouldn't becose it.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Yeah, you're still so young, so much life to live,
and you have built your empire and your twenties Like.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
That is well, that's what it's supposed to be.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
So the empire started and is still going in your twenties,
and that is that's all that. People say, You know,
you are become who you are in your twenties and
then adulting happens.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
But we're pretty mature. I would say, yeah, we're getting there.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
But obviously you are studying glowing, gorgeous and confident. And
like you just said, you kind of grew up in
this bubble where you felt like confidence was almost always
around you and that's how your confidence grew. But what
do you think the key was to you being so
(33:33):
confident today?
Speaker 3 (33:36):
I think that it was probably my mom. And I'm
trying not to cry because I just love it so much.
I think that my mom really spent so much time
great and like literally cry. My mom spent so much
time and like energy raising me to be myself, and
(33:59):
I like love her so much, like she genuinely is
my best friend, and I think that if it wasn't
for her, I don't know if I would have lived
my life the way I am now. And my dad too,
both of them, they're like the most supportive parents that
I could have ever asked for and that I wish
every single kid could have.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
But yeah, have the show's throughout my whole body.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Just you know, for anyone going through a similar situation
or who is in the LGBTQ committee and who is
nervous or scared, just know that you always have a voice. Yeah,
And you know, what is your advice to kids who
maybe are people who are going through this that maybe
don't have the most supportive family or support system around them,
(34:44):
Like who do you think, like like a.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Is a better like resource or like you know, person
to go to if they need to like just talk
about it.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
And I feel like it's mainly like when you're going
through that, it's a battle within your brain and like
within your body. It's like you feel like you're talking
to yourself, but you just want to talk to somebody.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Yeah, I think the best thing would be to find
someone in your community that you can just like rely on,
whether it's a teacher or a friend, or hopefully a
parent or anyone like a sibling. I think that's like
the most important thing. But also just remember that, like
I think people, when you live your life, you sometimes
(35:24):
get so caught up in your every day you can't
see the future and you feel like everything is so permanent.
But it's not like you can change. You can wake
up one day and decide you want to change your life.
You can wake up one day and you can decide
you want to be yourself and live the life that
you've always wanted. Like there's nothing holding you back. We
have one life. We literally are only here for such
a limited amount of time before we turn into like
(35:46):
worm food, we might as well like go all out
and live our lives the way we're supposed to and you.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
Know, even before we turn into warm food. I mean
that was so funny.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
Like we really don't know what tomorrow brings. Yeah, so
I feel like the worst thing is like God forbid
something happens, like knowing that there was more to your
life that you wanted to achieve and you don't know
what tomorrow will bring. I mean, the scariest stuff happens
every day where you sit there and you're.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
Like why why did that just happen? Like that is
so terrible And.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
That's why, I mean, especially with the world we live
in today, I feel like that's the biggest you know
push to say just do what you.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
Want exactly and be who you want to be exactly.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
Twenty nine, you have built such an amazing life for
yourself living in Soho.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
How did you achieve this lifestyle?
Speaker 3 (36:44):
I think it just it really took time and like
a lot of smart choices and a lot of hard choices,
but yeah, it really just took time and focusing on
my business and focusing on my content and prioritizing the
right thing even when it's hard. I feel like I've
always been able to do that, like even back in
college and in school. But yeah, I have a very
(37:08):
strong work ethic. I think you do too. I mean,
like I feel like you and I bonded so much
over that because I think out of our friend group, also,
you're the only other person that I can relate to
in that sense of like that really like insane work ethic.
I mean, everyone has really great work ethic in our
friend group, but yeah, you and I specifically because we
have similar jobs, we like connected over that. Yeah you
(37:30):
for saying that.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
Yeah, in twenty twenty four, you bought your family a
house and you bought yourself a car. Tell me how
this like extremely generous decision came about. I mean no
one can say not a lot of people can say
that they have done that in their twenties for their family.
Speaker 3 (37:47):
Yeah, and in your car is perfect.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
It's like pink Barbie.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
Literally, I don't even want to say it's a car.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
Guys, it's a g wagon. Yea has a pink g wagon.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
Literally, No, I think my family so many people were like,
why didn't you buy yourself an apartment first. Why didn't
you buy yourself a house first? And I'm like, well,
I would be nothing without my parents literally, but also
it would be nothing without the support and love that
they've given me. So to me, that just made more
sense to like buy them a house.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
And so it was for your mom.
Speaker 3 (38:20):
It's my mom and my little brothers. Yeah, and my
dad bought a house that's like fifteen minutes away.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
That's great, Yeah, but I mean your mom was probably
and you know, you just got so emotional about your mom.
She's been your biggest supporter of the person that has
been with you obviously and like really helped you throughout
this entire, your entire journey, and like it's you know,
it reminds me of how it's supposed to be as
we get older and as we make money. I think
(38:48):
our parents expect us to take care of them. I
would hope, so literally, I would hope. And you know,
and my mom did that for her parents. They would
come on every family vacation with us, my nana and no, no,
because why not, Like you are supposed to treat your
parents and give them whatever you can, because they gave
you everything they could exactly and gave you the world.
Speaker 3 (39:09):
So it's true.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
Yeah, would you say that you are self made?
Speaker 3 (39:22):
So I would say that I am self made, but
it would not be possible without the privileges that I've
been afforded. And while they've not been as great of
privileges as some of our other friends, and I think
that I wouldn't have been able to go to NYU.
I wouldn't have been able to study in France for
my freshman year of college. Like that's crazy.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
So you got probably got into the international program.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
Right, yeah? Yeah, but I also, I mean I did
have a scholarship at NYU, but still it's like then
able to work or work as an unpaid intern to
then have the career that I have now, it's like
that there's only so many people who have that privilege.
So while I am self made, I do like recognize
that I did have some privileges and some stepping stones
that helped me get to where I am. And I'm
(40:07):
sure you feel the same way, because like you're self made,
but like.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Yes, now I am self made?
Speaker 3 (40:12):
Right?
Speaker 1 (40:12):
Would I say that I was self made in twenty nineteen? No, exactly,
you know, my hat, my mom and dad got me
to the place that I am today.
Speaker 3 (40:21):
But then you built from there. Yes, and that's what
is important. And I feel like so many people like
don't understand that, and they, like, I guess, get antsy
or like annoyed. When people say like, oh, I'm self made,
I'm self made, They're like, well, no, you're not. I'm like, no,
you don't understand, Like how much more there is behind
the scenes that is actually happening.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
Yeah, exactly, and like, yeah, we are self made. Our
parents don't help us anymore. No, we got to the
place that we were and have this life because of
how hard we work. Yes, are we fortunate enough that
they gave us this life, of course, but this is
the life I want to give my kids too. Same
it's that this is the parent I want to be.
(40:58):
So it's it's a great example for us as well, like
as we get older.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
So it's like, yes, I love you, thank you for
being great parents.
Speaker 3 (41:06):
I love you.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
But what is the most expensive brand deal you have
ever been approached with? And what is one that you
have turned down?
Speaker 3 (41:17):
Most expensive brand deal I've ever been approached with? Hmmm,
I have to think for a.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
Second, take the time.
Speaker 3 (41:25):
Okay, I want to hear this. I mean it was
definitely like a high six figures. I feel like for
like a campaign.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
Oh I was I thought we were gonna say like
six zero zero er.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
I was like, wait what, I want to spit out
my manchi go what am I doing wrong?
Speaker 3 (41:42):
Yeah, it was definitely like a six figure deal. It
was probably something around Pride because I feel like that's
one area where I don't play around with, like, you know,
working with brands. I'm going to make sure that they're
like coughing it up because I think that's like really important.
But then a brand deal that I've turned down, I
(42:03):
have to think there was. There's definitely been a few.
I've turned down quite a few brands. I turned down
brands all the time. And if there's a skincare product
or something that doesn't work with me, like Sunday ry
Lee for example. I got it was for a vitamin
C campaign. It was a very very high rate. This
was a couple of years ago and it was still
(42:23):
a really high rate. But it was a vitamin C serum.
And I always try products out before I promote them.
Of course, I'm sure you do the same. Yeah, And
I'm so glad I did because I tried it on
and I broke out in full hives. And it was
the night before the House of Gucci premiere. I'll never
forget it.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
Oh great, and a mental.
Speaker 3 (42:43):
I had a mental breakdown. I was like freaking out.
I was also this is when I was still working
my full time job, actually, and I remember like icing
my face every day and I like sent I like
sent an email to like the Sunday Eli team, like
without my management on it. I was like, you guys.
I was like, I'm so so sorry. I was like,
my management won't explain it the way that I will.
But I was like, I can't do this partnership anymore.
I love the I love the brand. If there's another
(43:04):
product we can do down the line, let me know,
but I will not be doing this one.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
Wow. I mean valid though, and also just shows like
very true to your followers and like your brand.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
But you can't wait for this question.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
You've mentioned spending around fifty k a month on average.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
Help me understand break this down for me.
Speaker 3 (43:26):
I think it's the Uber Blacks probably, but I feel
like that's that's on a high on a high.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
On a high month. And also that I also think
your rent.
Speaker 3 (43:38):
Yeah, that's a quarter of it. And my mortgage that
I pay for the house, and my car and my
mom's car. And I have a lot of people. Yes,
I have a lot of people that I take care of,
and my team and my publicist. Yeah, you know lawyers.
Like that includes pretty much everything.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
So there's like a lot at stake.
Speaker 3 (43:56):
It's not like that includes my investments that I set
aside every month.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
Okay, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
I was also going to ask you, are you more
of a saver or more of an investor?
Speaker 3 (44:03):
Investor? I love investing. I have an incredible finance to you.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
But you have a Fidelity account.
Speaker 3 (44:10):
I don't have a Fidelity account, and my mom works
at Fidelity and she berates me every day because I
don't do Fidelity. I have a JP Morgan account and
I have an amazing team at JP Morgan. But no,
I just too yeah period. And I do like my
own crypto investing on the side, like ok just for fun.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
Okay, see I don't understand.
Speaker 3 (44:32):
Oh, I'll teach you down the coinbase.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
Really you do it like that on your phone? Christian?
Does it? You know? I'm but I feel like I
would I would trust you.
Speaker 3 (44:41):
Yeah, yeah, I feel what to do. Yeah, I think
that finance needs to be a little bit more transparent
for people like us, like in this industry too, It's
like it can be so fun, especially like the girls
in the gays need to be investing their money, Like
we can't just leave this for the boys.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
No.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
Also, all I hear about X.
Speaker 3 (45:00):
You need to buy it, Okay, Yeah, you're in it.
Wait for it, yeah, wait for it to dip, and
then you need to buy Okay.
Speaker 2 (45:05):
Yeah, Christian's been in it for like four years.
Speaker 3 (45:08):
I've been It's It's got.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
Rude though, rude that like really informed me about what's
going on. And then now I hear about it like
here are these numbers that he's saying.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
Like, oh, if it hits like this is going to
be really great.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
And I'm like, you're splitting the profit, literally splitting anything like.
Speaker 2 (45:27):
Because that's rude, Like rude. Okay.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
So do you see yourself living in New York City
for the foreseeable future.
Speaker 3 (45:39):
I don't know. I feel like I'm really happy here
right now. I've built such a great life for myself
and like, I have so many incredible friends and I've
lived here for almost eight nine years. Now, and I
feel like the only time that I would leave is
probably when I feel like I'm ready to have kids,
because I don't see myself raising kids in the city
(45:59):
really okay, I feel like it would be too difficult
and too expensive.
Speaker 2 (46:03):
Yeah, well it's true.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
I mean it's so expensive and you could probably just
realize the difference of like even when you bought your
family a home in Texas, like the difference is just insane.
Speaker 3 (46:14):
No, like that, how I think you would go back
to Texas? Yeah, yeah, I could see myself doing that.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
Yeah, I mean I would. Yeah, it's like I would.
Speaker 1 (46:22):
And even you know, living in Jersey my whole life,
just seeing how expensive it is to live in Jersey
compare like the difference of other states. It's wild, and
I totally understand why people make the move or even
living in California first, living in New Jersey California is insane.
(46:44):
So it's just there's the difference of states is like
really wild, and I mean I totally get it. Kids
are so expensive too, and I'm like.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
Unfortunately selfish.
Speaker 3 (46:54):
Yeah, I'm like two max yeah, same, yeah, right, maybe three, Okay,
that's a lot. Two to three, that's a lot.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
I don't know about my What is your favorite thing
about New York City?
Speaker 3 (47:08):
Probably the people. I feel like everyone that I've met
in New York I've built so many incredible relationships and
so many friendships that I still have today. I'm friends
with all of my friends from college still, I'm friends
with a lot of my old coworkers, a lot of
people that I worked with when I was in, you know,
on the other side of the industry. And yeah, I
think the people in New York are there's nothing else
(47:31):
like it. There's no other city that.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
Has If you're worried about meeting people, move here. Moved
to New York. Yeah. So we both have boyfriends that
are in the public eye.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
What do you think is a fair balance between them
obviously supporting us, but then they also want to live
their normal life and them adjusting to this world is
definitely difficult at times, And I feel like they both,
both of our boyfriends do a very good job of
supporting us and really making us feel supported, but there's
(48:03):
a fine line of when it's too much for them.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
Or we want more.
Speaker 3 (48:07):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, what.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
Do you think is like a good balance?
Speaker 3 (48:10):
It's hard. I feel like we have been in this industry,
we understand it so well, and I think for anyone
who's dating someone in the spotlight, it can be so
intimidating and so overwhelming and it's scary. They didn't sign
up for this. We did, yeah, And like, I think
the biggest thing that I've learned in my years of
(48:31):
doing this is that, like, I have to try my
best to put myself in their shoes and have empathy
for that situation, but at the same time communicate my
needs and it's not something that can go unset. I
feel like there are so many things in relationships that
are just like expectations, like you expect your boyfriend to
(48:51):
buy you flowers and celebrate your anniversaries, But like when
you're in this industry, there's a new layer of expectations
that then get added on where it's like I expect
you to show ap and support me in my work endeavors. Yes,
but also like are you going to come with me
to do this red carpet? Like there's other layers of it.
Are you okay with being in these photos? Are you
okay with.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
Filming this scene?
Speaker 3 (49:11):
Right?
Speaker 1 (49:11):
And there's layers of that where yes, it comes so
natural to us but then it's scary for them because again,
they did not sign up for this, So asking them
to film a scene, to be on a red carpet,
even be in a TikTok video with us, that is.
Speaker 2 (49:28):
Exposing more and more of their life.
Speaker 3 (49:31):
To the public, right that they might not want exactly.
Speaker 1 (49:34):
So I think, you know, I think you and I
both balance it very well, and we both respect our boyfriends,
you know, boundaries and decisions because I kind of like
that they're.
Speaker 2 (49:46):
Not very mostly not gonna lie.
Speaker 3 (49:48):
I don't think I would ever date someone in the
public eye.
Speaker 2 (49:50):
Yeah, it's refreshing, you know.
Speaker 1 (49:53):
It's this feeling of Okay, I you're like so amazing
and you don't like, you're not like what is it
called like blindness, Like they're not blind by like the public,
And I don't know, I just I feel like that
is something that a lot of people sometimes like and cherish,
(50:15):
is like having their relationship a little separate but showing
glimpse of it.
Speaker 2 (50:19):
And I think that's.
Speaker 3 (50:20):
I think that's what you and I have both like done,
We've been trying to do that. I think that's it's
also cool for people to see because I think it
gives them more of a respect for the relationship and
they're like, Okay, wow, that's not just like for the show.
It's like they're like, actually, like this is like a
long term or like a serious you know, like there,
it's something we.
Speaker 2 (50:39):
Have to work through with them, right, not the audience.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
And as time goes on, I think slowly they become
more and more and more comfortable, but it doesn't start
off that way, and that's something that's very big. You
have to allow them to grow their confidence as well
and grow the comfortability of being in this space.
Speaker 2 (51:03):
Otherwise you're going to scare them away.
Speaker 3 (51:05):
Yea.
Speaker 1 (51:07):
So this was such an amazing episode. You have made
me so happy today and I'm so happy that you
felt safe to share your story in this space. And
I know so many listeners are going to be so
excited to hear from you. But that was it for
this week's episode of Casual Chaos.
Speaker 2 (51:27):
Until next time, Love you guys. Bye.
Hey guys, and welcome back to another week of Casual Chaos.
This week, I have a very exciting guest, a dear
friend of mine and one of my castmates on Next Gen,
myc Amir de Spain. Welcome to Casual Chaos. Hi, I'm
really excited for you to be here today. I feel
like your story is so inspiring and you can just
help guide so many others who are going through this
(00:25):
or struggling with anything, and I really am so happy
that you feel comfortable to share it on.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Casual Chaos, of course.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
And I'm excited because even though I know we're so close,
I'm excited for this podcast to even get to know
a little bit more about you.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Yeah, And honestly, like, I feel like there's no one
that I would feel even more comfortable doing this with.
It's like you're like one of my dear friends, and
I love that we are able to do this. So
thanks for having me, no problem.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
She is an icon, She is a legend, and she
has broken so many barriers, so starting first and foremost,
becoming the first black transgender woman to model for Victoria's Secret.
She did an insane campaign with Victoria's Secret.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
How did that feel.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
I mean, it's definitely amazing. I've worked with them for
so many years now and their team is so incredible.
I just I like love them all so much. Yeah,
it's it's like a childhood dream come true. I feel
like every girl dreams of that, and I don't know,
it was really cool.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
It was an iconic woman.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
And then even this year at the VS Fashion Show,
your outfit, yes, I mean that, and then also just
the Wicked Amira she has outfits, guys, and you would
think that she was in the damn movie Wicked.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Or you would think that she is one of those.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
VS angels walking on the fashion show. But it is incredible.
Like the thought and effort you put into each one
of your pieces is insane.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Thank you. I mean I really try my best to
like take the time and like I design things based
on off of like my vibe and my like the
mood of that event or that night, or like whatever
it is I'm going for, And yeah, it all just
comes to me, it.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Comes to you.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
And also to making history as Bravo's first full time
transgender cast member. Yes, there is so many walls that
have been broken, and how does it feel to do that?
Speaker 3 (02:24):
I mean, it's definitely sometimes feels like a lot of
weight because it feels like I have to, I guess,
maintain an expectation that people have because I'm representing not
just myself but pretty much the entire LGBTQ community, but
specifically in my community. Yeah, and so I feel like
I have this pressure to portray myself in the best way,
(02:46):
and sometimes that forces me to be a little more
closed off, and I want to open up as much
as I can, and I feel like I'm slowly coming
out of my shell in that way. And I'm such
an open person with my friends and stuff. It's just
like with the world, it's so easy to like close
yourself off, you know.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
I mean, there's also just a lot that comes with it, Judgment,
the fear of not being accepted. There's just a lot
to it. And I'm so happy that. Honestly, I think
our generation broke a lot of fourth walls and just
seeing everything and we'll talk more about it, but even
like the shift within brands, within networks, everything, just seeing
(03:30):
how each one of these different platforms are becoming so
much more accepting of everybody, and that's really beautiful to see.
Because that was something that I feel like probably instilled
fear and many people to not be their true self.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
And it doesn't end there.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Guys, You've also greased the cover of Glamour, been featured
in Nylon and modeled for major brands like Fenty Beauty
and Nars.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Guys, she met Rihanna and Barbados. Can you imagine standing
there and Rihanna just enters the.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Building literally like hey, Jay in hand? No, yeah, you kidding.
She's a legend. It was so crazy, like she loves
my mom really and.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
I'm like, can you just come here literally please?
Speaker 3 (04:23):
I just want to meet you, or we all should
take a trip to Barbados to her house.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
That's where you were.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Yeah, we went to Barbados in her house. No, no, not
in her house. She had like a it was like
a resort. I guess way.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
She was that willing to do that, literally, but she would.
She's amazing. She's just so freaking amazing.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
When you look back at the start of your career,
did you ever imagine that it would have led to this?
Speaker 3 (04:49):
As much as I want to say no and like that,
it was like such a surprise and like that it like, yes,
I can't imagine it because genuinely, like my mom can
go back and find things that I drew when I
was a kid, and it's exactly what I imagined, Like
every single thing, down to being on a show, down
to having like an audience of some sort, down to
(05:13):
having a closet full of burkins. That was literally something
I drew as a child. As crazy as that is,
Like what kid dreams of that? In like the two thousand?
Speaker 2 (05:20):
No, literally, how'd you even know what a burg exactly right?
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Right?
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Did your mom have them?
Speaker 3 (05:25):
She did? I think she had like one or two,
okay back then, But that's why.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
One above them beyond she's got a lockdoor closet fall
no one is breaking into.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Her burken period. But that's you know what I mean.
Like it's like I genuinely feel like I've manifested everything,
and yes it's hard work, but also like I feel
like I wanted it so badly and there's like nothing
that was going to stop me from like achieving my dreams.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Yeah, the Victoria's Secret campaign? How did that come about?
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Yeah? So honestly, we had I had a few friends
that worked there, and they I guess had been having
conversations about me prior to my knowledge, Like this was
like in like twenty twenty, and I didn't really know
anything that was happening behind the scenes.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
But was this your first big campaign?
Speaker 3 (06:14):
This was my first big campaign. And this was also
the first thing that I did when I was still
working a corporate job. So I was working at Paper
at the time, Paper magazine.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
And for anyone who doesn't know, Amira went to n YU,
Yeah she is very smart, guys, I'm not kidding, very
very smart. I was actually talking to Andrew, my podcast producer,
before this, and didn't you win an award at NYU,
Like I don't want to say valedictorian or was it?
Speaker 3 (06:43):
No, it was. I graduated with honors. I was in
the top ten percent of NYU. This is what I'm
saying you, guys.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Very smart. Amiraa is very smart.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
And what did you major minor in?
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Well so I double majored in marketing and communications, and
then I was trying to in computer science, but I
didn't have enough time. I was very stressed out during college.
I did not have like the fun party college experience
that I so badly sometimes wish I did. No.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
It's so funny because I feel like when we're out,
you're like, well, I'm doing this now because I didn't
do this when I was younger. And it's so funny
because you have you have such a fun spirit. But
it's you know, again, hard work pays off. So you
grinded to get where you are today.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
That's very true.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Yeah, so again, back back to VS.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Back to Yeah, so back to that campaign. So then, I, yes,
I was working full time at Paper and when that
campaign came out, it was the campaign wasn't even that big,
but the press like picked it up and turned it
into like this whole thing. And I remember like at
the time, the CEO of Paper was in the Hamptons
(07:52):
and he calls me that morning and he's like, why
did I just get the New York Post delivered to
my house and you're on it? And I was like,
what do you mean? And I like like woke up
and I was like in bed stuf. I was getting
ready to go to the office. I was like wait
what and I like open my computer and it's like
all over the news and I was like, oh my god.
I was like now I have to go in the
office and I'm like, hey, guys, I'm.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Just a normal.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
I was doing that on the side.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
It's so funny.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
But but I mean, I feel like it was so
big and so monumental for VS. In itself. The evolution
of Victoria's Secret in itself is crazy. The whole world
has transformed as people like you have broken down these
fourth walls.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
So yeah, one hundred percent. I mean, and I think
for them too, it's like it took them a minute
to find their footing. I think they they thought that
by stripping back everything, I feel like was the right move.
But people still want the glitz, they still want the glam.
They still want like you know, Victoria's Secrets glam.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Oh yeah, and we still want to see the VS
Fashion show exactly. The wings are ecologic to see it.
I want to see Candace walking down that runway.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Hundred percent. I think they have finally gotten it, right, Like,
I mean think this year was incredible, like they like,
really they get it now. It took them like a
couple of years and then they're like they're back.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Yeah, No, they're so back.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
How do you feel like these brands have evolved over
the years with their representation.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
I mean, I think that the pandemic really gave brands
a lot of space to kind of reform a lot
of the ways that they were operating in a really
positive way. I think a lot of brands. That was
around the time when a lot of brands started doing,
you know, being more inclusive and wanting to have more
diversity and inclusion in any aspect. And like whether that's
(09:46):
on the back end of like who's sitting at the
table making the decisions, and then whether that's on the
front end of who's starring in the campaigns. And I
think it goes both ways. I feel like it maybe
went a little too far and I feel like people
got fatigue by it, which is really sad. But it's
also kind of detrimental to like the entire aspect of it.
(10:06):
Like I think there's a balance between showing something that's
like aspirational and beautiful and you want to attain that
one day, Like it's just like a dream to have
perfectly clear skin and a beauty ad, you know, versus
like showing someone with acne. It's like, oh, that's relatable.
I have acne. I can see myself using you know,
this blush or whatever it is. I think now we're
(10:27):
in a space where brands are still trying to find
that in between space, and I think VS is a
wonderful example of that. They really have found that in
between of like how to keep it aspirational at the
same time keep it you know, real.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Yeah, and I mean that just like shows, especially like
the transformation of social media, I mean it could go
back to VS.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Yeah, of course.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
I feel like they were like the staple and mold
to like what everyone looked up to. And it was
when social media had to be so perfect and all
the pictures had to be perfect, and everything that we
did felt like it had.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
To be perfect. Now no one wants to see that.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
They want to see us waking up out of bed
looking like they want us to, you know, show our drunk,
funny moments.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Or shocks off like they want everything.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
They want all of that because they feel like it's
authentic and that, like, you know, people can relate to us,
and that's what you want when you are connecting with
your audience, when you are too perfect. And I'm guilty,
I used to do that. I used to feel like, okay,
everything has to be perfect. Oh I can't post that
because I slipped there that's.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Not going to look good.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
But now I'm like, I love you guys. You're like
my second family. I don't care what it's we'll talk
about it. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
I was hammered last night.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Yeah, not feeling too great this morning. Like it's just
it's fun. And I feel like that's why this space is.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
So comfortable now.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
And I think people are growing more and more because
people are blowing up overnight, and it's because of how
relatable they are and how authentic they are.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
So true.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
So we are in the middle of filming season two
of Next Gen NYC.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
How are you feeling this year.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
I'm feeling good. I'm apprehensive a little bit. It's a
little nerve wracking for me. Last year when we were filming,
I was definitely more reserved, and obviously I wasn't in
as many scenes as I could have been because I
was just too busy. Yeah. Right, we've found well, we
filmed kind of like I mean, I think that that's
(12:38):
like our peak season right as creators like, the summer
really is like one of the busiest times of year.
There's so many campaigns or so many like brand trips
and opportunities that all happen in the summer and we
were filming kind of like right in the middle of
Pride too, so I had a lot. Yeah, so I
had a lot going on, so I wasn't able to
be as present this year. I feel like I am
(13:02):
making more time for it. I'm definitely i would say,
probably just as busy, but I've prioritized, you know, being
part of the show more. And it's hard. I mean,
it definitely takes a toll on some aspects of my
personal life, my relationships and my friendships, and like, I'm
sure you can relate to this. It's like people who
(13:22):
don't get this industry, it's like really difficult to explain
to them that, like we work so much.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
We work so much.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
And it's funny because I feel like now my fan
base is starting to kind.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Of get it. Yeah, but for the longest time, where's
your job?
Speaker 3 (13:41):
They're like, what do you do?
Speaker 2 (13:42):
What are you doing? And I'm like, only if.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
You know I'm sleeping with three hours a night, I'm like,
what do you mean, Like.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
I'm actually working all the time.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
And it's just, you know, I think that's a part
of this industry that's really frustrating, because we really do
work so hard, and it can come to the point
of us literally filming content every day but then having.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
To edit it all night. That's still work.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Okay, Yeah, we're going about our daily life, but we're
filming content.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
That's still our work.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Then on top of it, the brand deals, the campaigns,
the brand trips, there's so many other things that come
with it. And yes, sometimes it is luxurious and sometimes
it is a lot of fun, but it's still work.
It's just a different type of work. You can't compare
a lawyer to a doctor two different things, or a
finance bro to a veterinarian very different. Like every line
(14:40):
of work is so different. And I think that's something
in our industry that's like very frustrating because it almost
feels like we always kind of have to explain ourselves
about what we're doing for work.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Like this, Yes, this is work, this has work right
right here, right now.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
I mean when I was working, when I first started
doing content in twenty twenty, and I was working a
full time job and trying to do content creation on
the side, it was like, I would say, more work
to do the content side. I mean I would wake
up at four and I would film from like five
to nine, and then I'd go in my office at
nine point thirty and then I'd come home at six,
(15:18):
and then i would edit from seven to ten, and
then I'd go to bed at eleven and then repeat
it every single day. Yeah, Like it was like more
work to do the content side than my actual job
one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Yeah, because again, it's all about how you edit, how
you perform, how you present yourself, and that's you know,
and then you learn every day and you critique yourself
so then changes are made.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
But it really is. I mean i could sit there
for hours editing my content and I'm like, whoa, Okay,
this is a lot.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Literally, But what were your initial thoughts when you heard
about next Gen Am?
Speaker 3 (15:51):
I say, honestly, I was really excited because I am
I'm a Brava fan. I love the Housewives, and I
feel like this was missing for so long, no long.
It kind of blows my mind that no one thought
of this sooner. I know, like, I feel like it
would have done well like all these numbories.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
It really would have. And I mean I couldn't tell
you what the reason was.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Maybe you know, they were waiting for some of the
Bravo kids to you.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
Know, grow up a little bit.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Yeah, be a little older.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
But they Bravo is trying so hard to bring young
energy onto the network, which is why obviously, yes they
had Summer House, they had Winter House, Southern Charm, these
young vander Pump rules.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Uh huh.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
But all of these shows are they're all getting old now,
so it's crazy, Like Summer House, they're so young and
their personalities are amazing. I love all of them, but
they're getting old to keep doing Summers in the Hamptons,
which is why now they're obviously transitioning to New York
and they're reinventing Summerhouse a little bit now with younger faces.
(16:56):
Even when it comes to the housewives, you got to
always kind of keep the og, but you also have
to add.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
In some some new faces.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Yep, new faces, younger faces, because they like seeing that
that like the growing period. So like to see like
she's my mom as an example, because it's easy. But
like starting twenty years ago on Bravo, watching her entire
family grow up and then now her daughter's on Bravo,
it's like a really cool, like full circle transitional moment.
(17:24):
And then but I mean I did not think that
next Gen was going to be what it was today
and it's sane, insane, Like everyone loved us at Bravo.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Con like I genuinely think, I mean I know you
and I specifically like we had this conversation too. We
were like genuinely so shocked at how well it did
because we were like.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
I thought it was gonna be hard.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Yeah, we were like, well, it's just like kind of
like us like sitting around like like doing our regular lives,
like and it was.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Fun because the season one and I think that's why
season two is I think a lot better for all
of us.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
We're I think we're all realizing.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
The time and effort you need to put into this
show to really show who you are. The more time
you put into it, the more people get to know you,
the more they see your personality, and it's really what
you give.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
And season one it was a.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Little awkward because we didn't know everybody, so it was
like we were trying to get to know everyone, but
at the same time, we had to do a reality
TV show, so it's like, but I'm gonna start drama
with you when I don't.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Even know what pisses you off, Like it was very
like it was hard.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
It was definitely hard season one two, Like when the
whole there was like this whole narrative that was going
about prior to us filming of like the Bravo Kids
versus the non Bravo Kids, and it all started with
like a Reddit thread or something long before we even
started filming.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
I think maybe when we were filming the Sizzle.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Yeah, probably when we were filming the Sizzle.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
And I genuinely think that obviously the show would be
nothing without the Bravo Kids obviously, but on top of that,
but you might know, but it.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Brings so much to the show that wouldn't be possible without.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
You guys, right. But I feel like that that created
like that awkwardness or that tension in the first season
where like everyone wasn't as close.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
I mean you and I got close pretty fast, and
Arianna too. Yeah, And I feel like I knew everyone,
but I feel like everyone didn't know one another. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
And that's what I think people can be get really
excited for for season two because they're such a deeper
dynamic and now it's like all bets are off, people,
we're going in.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Literally we've all spent so much time together, like even
outside of like filming, like.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Yeah, we're close now, yeah, maybe too close.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Everyone's trauma phoned it from living here in the city.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Did you immediately want to be on the show?
Speaker 3 (20:08):
Honestly? I had to think about it a little bit
because Brooks was the one who first brought it up
to me. He brought up to you too, right, yeah,
And I was like okay. I was like, well, what's
it going to be? I was like, what's the And
it was called something Else at first, and the name
kind of turned me off a little bit, and I
was like, well, I was like all right, like maybe
and yeah, I finally came around to it. He really
(20:32):
he like pitched me the show in a really I
guess likable way, like it made me want to do it,
you know, of course.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
I mean when you.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
The show really is the pivotal point to like expand
your brand and you know, show more of you and
just you know, let people get a deeper dive.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Into your life.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
And sometimes for people that's a blessing and sometimes it's
a curse. It's true, so it's you know, you just
gotta when joining reality TV, I always say, make sure
you got enough skeletons in your cloths.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Oh my god. Well some of these people have definitely
quite a few skeletons in there.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Oh I know, and not many of these people just
don't care. They're like, oh what, I'm like, my skeletons
are already out. You want to say something. I mean,
it's like my skeletons but like they're out right, they're out.
What was your first impression of me when we met?
Speaker 3 (21:31):
My first impression of you was definitely your like stunning,
So like that was probably number one. Number two was
probably like, damn, I can't wear heels if we're taking
a picture together again, every time Ga and I are
taking pictures, I'm always wearing the highest heel.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
We're always paired guys.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Always at Bravo con who does the photo ops together?
Me and Amira obviously so happy. I was with her
all day every day. But we're standing there and I
was seeing so many comments on TikTok being like, oh
my gosh, she is so tiny.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
The height difference is great, literally, and it's funny because
almost all of my closest friends are so much shorter
than me, and like my best friend in high school
was four to eleven and like all of my closest friends
like four eleven, five to one, five to two, I'm
like great, like love.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
It, no the biggest like it boored my heart. We're
about to go into our photo op at Brabo cod
and girl. I made sure I didn't where the platforms
dress for you.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Oh, they didn't do the platforms.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
It's like the fact that a mirror sacrificed the heel
she wanted to wear for me.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
That's a big deal.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
So your background is so layered. You grew up in Texas,
your mom was living in Dubai.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
I want the whole breakdown.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
But then you also made your way to New York
when you were going to NYU tell me all about this.
How did your mom make it to Texas? Like where
did this all happen?
Speaker 3 (22:55):
So my parents met when they were both working in Dubai.
My dad was their tail. Yeah, they were both working
in Dubai and it was really cool. And so I
was born in Dubai and I lived there for the
first like three years of my life, and then we
moved to the States. We lived in Kansas for like
a few months. That's where the twins were born. We
lived in Overland Park. Then we moved to Florida and
(23:16):
we lived there for like four years, and then we
were like back and forth, like traveling around. So I
was homeschooled until I was in the fifth grade.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Wow. So they never admitted you into school.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
No, because it was too difficult. So I travel around.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Not your brother's either that.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
Yeah, we were all homeschooled.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
And then in the fifth grade was when my parents
got divorced. So then I had to go to regular
school because my mom had to go to work, you know.
And yeah, so then I went to a private fine
arts high school and I used to dance competitively, like
did theater was the theater kid? Cringe?
Speaker 2 (23:51):
And then I had I just had Ella Stiller.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
Oh yeah, oh my god, awesome. I mean her parents
are icons literally icon.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
But she literally said I feel like every little kid
should be in theater. As I said it, she was like,
it's so good for your personality, like.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
Your confidence, yes, everything, I mean truly like in dance too,
I mean like it really teaches you how to handle
rejection in such as right and criticism in such a
like positive way and like take it on the chin
and be like okay, yeah, it's not personal, but yeah.
So then I graduated from high school and I went
to I actually did my freshman year at NYU in Paris,
(24:27):
so I was at NYU's Paris campus and then I
and then I transferred to NYU Manhattan sophomore year and
I was in college, graduated, was working at Paper magazine.
I was an intern there. It was the only job
I ever really had. I started as an intern on
the marketing side, so I worked on the ad agency side,
and I was like the only intern and I was
(24:48):
doing like a full time job, you know. And I love,
I like have so much love and respect for my
entire paper team, Like they were incredible. Some of them
are still there today. Them have like moved on and
they're the best. They gave me the opportunity because they
saw how much I loved beauty. So they were like,
do you want to start writing for the site? Do
you want to just like randomly help us launch a
(25:09):
beauty thing, because we don't really do beauty. They do fashion.
They did mostly. It was mostly fashion and music, and
so they were aside from the agency marketing side of it,
which was like separate from the magazine. So I was
like pitching influencers for like events and stuff. Little did
I know? I know, isn't that crazy? Now?
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Wait, that's so funny.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
And like building pitch decks and like putting people. I'm
gonna probably put you or your mom and at some
point and that was like in twenty seventeen, woh yeah,
and then or twenty seventeen to twenty nineteen, I worked
on the marketing side. Then I transitioned over the editorial side,
and now you booked there. For a while, I was
an intern though I like, I didn't graduate until twenty nineteen,
(25:50):
but I was like a full time employee, unpaid intern
love New York.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
And you weren't paid this entire time?
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Oh no, no, what? Yeah? Then I got hired full
time when I grab because they couldn't hire me because
I was in school.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Okay, but why do interns get paid now?
Speaker 3 (26:03):
Like myster there's a law now that got passed. Back
then there was not. They were like you're an intern,
They're like, you want to be here.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
See so for three years you did.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
That sophomore year through senior year, and then I worked
there for two years post college. So I graduated and
I got hired full time I was on the marketing
side and the editorial side for like a hybrid, and
then I started doing editorial beauty content for them. So
I was posting like tiktoks and doing like like I
had a snapchat show on Paper's Snapchat channel called Snatchurl.
(26:36):
It was really fun. And then I was doing my
own beauty content on the side. Like I said, I'd
wake up at like four am to film and it
was crazy, but it paid off. I mean I started
doing better than the Paper one and I was like, Okay,
I want to focus on this now. Clearly there's something there.
And I quit my job and that was quit my
job in twenty twenty one. So yeah, yeah, twenty twenty one,
(26:58):
it's been.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Like five years. Yeah, building your career. Yeah wow, that's incredible.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
Crazy.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
So then when did it really take off where you
felt like I'm good now to be on my own,
Like when were you really taking care of yourself fully?
Speaker 3 (27:14):
I think twenty twenty one, Like I started, like when
I was able, I worked at Paper for a while
while I was still doing content full time or part time,
because I was I wanted to make sure that this
was like a sustainable business. Obviously my parents too, and
like they didn't really understand it, like, yeah, my mom's
an immigrant. She's like not, She's like, I mean you
need to stay focused. I'm like okay, I'm like yes, mom,
(27:39):
I mean same, Yeah, I'm like all right. But they
finally saw the vision. My mom and my dad both dead,
and they were like all right, if this is like
what you want to pursue, like they'll support it, but
like you got to handle I go off. I was
like okay, and I did, and.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
You did and you did. So take me back a
little bit.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
When did you know that transitioning was something that you
wanted to do.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
I mean, honestly, it's so crazy because there's not like
a singular point I can look back at and say like, oh,
Like this was a moment where I realized that I
think my parents always knew. Like even as a kid,
I was never like I didn't have a blue I
had a pink room growing up my entire life. I
asked my parents. I was like, I want a pink
room and I was like four, and they were like okay,
(28:24):
I guess They're like go for it. And I only
had barbies. I grew up very much like any other
girl would. And I think that my parents let me
be myself from such a young age. It was never
really a question, Like I never had to like sit
down to my parents and come out to them. And
I think that's just like a testament to how incredible
(28:46):
they raised me. And I like have so much love
and respect for my parents, and I wish so badly
that every kid could have that, because I know that's
not the case for a majority of kids in the
LGBTQ community. But yeah, that was it was amazing, like
genuinely like they always supported Yeah, they always supported me.
(29:06):
They never questioned anything really.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
And I honestly, I think that's the biggest struggle. People
do come out, but they're scared. They're scared because of
just the old school mentality and what was expected because
how that how that works in Italy was you are
raised to get married and have a family. Yeah, and
(29:30):
that is and that is that is it. It's very
plain and simple. So they're like, if you can't follow it,
what it's like, this is this is the this is
the the look book basically gets.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Drawn out for you. So I mean, I totally get it,
and I to.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Have to for a kid to fear telling their parents
something that it breaks my heart.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
It does, and it also like it really does affect them,
like even beyond their childhood. Of course, like when you
grow up with that sense of like fear, I feel
like you're not able to ever reach the level of
confidence that will make you like successful in a business sense,
successful in like a like relationship with like a significant other.
I feel like it really does create like a like
(30:13):
a dark cloud that like you have to like deal
with when you get older.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, even in you know again, like
you were saying, like confidence in school, even as like
a little kid, it could probably that that could stick
with you forever. That's why so many people always talk
about like drama, it happens when you're younger.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
It's true.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
It happens when you're younger and stays with you until
you're older.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
And it's a matter of how you work towards that
to resolve it, whether it's therapy or but all the
issues start from whatever.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
You experienced when you were younger.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
So obviously, you know your family was so amazing during
your transition, and I'm so happy for you that you
have such an amazing support system.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
How are your friends.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
I mean, everyone was very much. I don't like to
say this, but I do feel like it's true. I
think I grew up in a little bit of a bubble,
like even in college, like I would say, like up
until even when I was working a full time job,
Like I was very much growing up in a bubble,
And like I spent so much of my life surrounded
(31:19):
by people who just didn't question me, let me live
my life, let me be myself, and for better or worse,
it created like this sense of like blind confidence of like, well,
if everyone's believing in me, then I guess I gotta
believe in myself too. So yeah, all my friends were
so supportive. Like everyone I worked with was supportive. Everyone
(31:41):
I went to school with was supportive. Of all the teachers,
Like everybody was just like Letimira do her thing, like
she's figuring herself out.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
What do you think the hardest part of your transition
process was the emotional side or the physical side.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
I think it was probably the emotional side. Like I
think that I I knew that I had just like
I knew I felt this need that I had to
like live my life the way that I wanted to,
and it was never really a question of like disappointing
anyone or like changing myself or anything. I think the
emotional side was just like knowing that there are some
things that I may have missed out on, like growing up,
(32:18):
and looking back on that, I wish that, you know,
like I wish I could go back in time and like,
you know, have transitioned younger or maybe if I was
you know whatever. Yeah. Yeah, So I think that for me,
coming to terms with being able to live my life
how I want now and who I am now, and that,
to me is has been the hardest part, but it's
(32:41):
been good. Like I don't think I don't think about
it as much anymore.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
And you shouldn't becose it.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Yeah, you're still so young, so much life to live,
and you have built your empire and your twenties Like.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
That is well, that's what it's supposed to be.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
So the empire started and is still going in your twenties,
and that is that's all that. People say, You know,
you are become who you are in your twenties and
then adulting happens.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
But we're pretty mature. I would say, yeah, we're getting there.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
But obviously you are studying glowing, gorgeous and confident. And
like you just said, you kind of grew up in
this bubble where you felt like confidence was almost always
around you and that's how your confidence grew. But what
do you think the key was to you being so
(33:33):
confident today?
Speaker 3 (33:36):
I think that it was probably my mom. And I'm
trying not to cry because I just love it so much.
I think that my mom really spent so much time
great and like literally cry. My mom spent so much
time and like energy raising me to be myself, and
(33:59):
I like love her so much, like she genuinely is
my best friend, and I think that if it wasn't
for her, I don't know if I would have lived
my life the way I am now. And my dad too,
both of them, they're like the most supportive parents that
I could have ever asked for and that I wish
every single kid could have.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
But yeah, have the show's throughout my whole body.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Just you know, for anyone going through a similar situation
or who is in the LGBTQ committee and who is
nervous or scared, just know that you always have a voice. Yeah,
And you know, what is your advice to kids who
maybe are people who are going through this that maybe
don't have the most supportive family or support system around them,
(34:44):
Like who do you think, like like a.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Is a better like resource or like you know, person
to go to if they need to like just talk
about it.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
And I feel like it's mainly like when you're going
through that, it's a battle within your brain and like
within your body. It's like you feel like you're talking
to yourself, but you just want to talk to somebody.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Yeah, I think the best thing would be to find
someone in your community that you can just like rely on,
whether it's a teacher or a friend, or hopefully a
parent or anyone like a sibling. I think that's like
the most important thing. But also just remember that, like
I think people, when you live your life, you sometimes
(35:24):
get so caught up in your every day you can't
see the future and you feel like everything is so permanent.
But it's not like you can change. You can wake
up one day and decide you want to change your life.
You can wake up one day and you can decide
you want to be yourself and live the life that
you've always wanted. Like there's nothing holding you back. We
have one life. We literally are only here for such
a limited amount of time before we turn into like
(35:46):
worm food, we might as well like go all out
and live our lives the way we're supposed to and you.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
Know, even before we turn into warm food. I mean
that was so funny.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
Like we really don't know what tomorrow brings. Yeah, so
I feel like the worst thing is like God forbid
something happens, like knowing that there was more to your
life that you wanted to achieve and you don't know
what tomorrow will bring. I mean, the scariest stuff happens
every day where you sit there and you're.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
Like why why did that just happen? Like that is
so terrible And.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
That's why, I mean, especially with the world we live
in today, I feel like that's the biggest you know
push to say just do what you.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
Want exactly and be who you want to be exactly.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
Twenty nine, you have built such an amazing life for
yourself living in Soho.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
How did you achieve this lifestyle?
Speaker 3 (36:44):
I think it just it really took time and like
a lot of smart choices and a lot of hard choices,
but yeah, it really just took time and focusing on
my business and focusing on my content and prioritizing the
right thing even when it's hard. I feel like I've
always been able to do that, like even back in
college and in school. But yeah, I have a very
(37:08):
strong work ethic. I think you do too. I mean,
like I feel like you and I bonded so much
over that because I think out of our friend group, also,
you're the only other person that I can relate to
in that sense of like that really like insane work ethic.
I mean, everyone has really great work ethic in our
friend group, but yeah, you and I specifically because we
have similar jobs, we like connected over that. Yeah you
(37:30):
for saying that.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
Yeah, in twenty twenty four, you bought your family a
house and you bought yourself a car. Tell me how
this like extremely generous decision came about. I mean no
one can say not a lot of people can say
that they have done that in their twenties for their family.
Speaker 3 (37:47):
Yeah, and in your car is perfect.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
It's like pink Barbie.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
Literally, I don't even want to say it's a car.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
Guys, it's a g wagon. Yea has a pink g wagon.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
Literally, No, I think my family so many people were like,
why didn't you buy yourself an apartment first. Why didn't
you buy yourself a house first? And I'm like, well,
I would be nothing without my parents literally, but also
it would be nothing without the support and love that
they've given me. So to me, that just made more
sense to like buy them a house.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
And so it was for your mom.
Speaker 3 (38:20):
It's my mom and my little brothers. Yeah, and my
dad bought a house that's like fifteen minutes away.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
That's great, Yeah, but I mean your mom was probably
and you know, you just got so emotional about your mom.
She's been your biggest supporter of the person that has
been with you obviously and like really helped you throughout
this entire, your entire journey, and like it's you know,
it reminds me of how it's supposed to be as
we get older and as we make money. I think
(38:48):
our parents expect us to take care of them. I
would hope, so literally, I would hope. And you know,
and my mom did that for her parents. They would
come on every family vacation with us, my nana and no, no,
because why not, Like you are supposed to treat your
parents and give them whatever you can, because they gave
you everything they could exactly and gave you the world.
Speaker 3 (39:09):
So it's true.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
Yeah, would you say that you are self made?
Speaker 3 (39:22):
So I would say that I am self made, but
it would not be possible without the privileges that I've
been afforded. And while they've not been as great of
privileges as some of our other friends, and I think
that I wouldn't have been able to go to NYU.
I wouldn't have been able to study in France for
my freshman year of college. Like that's crazy.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
So you got probably got into the international program.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
Right, yeah? Yeah, but I also, I mean I did
have a scholarship at NYU, but still it's like then
able to work or work as an unpaid intern to
then have the career that I have now, it's like
that there's only so many people who have that privilege.
So while I am self made, I do like recognize
that I did have some privileges and some stepping stones
that helped me get to where I am. And I'm
(40:07):
sure you feel the same way, because like you're self made,
but like.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Yes, now I am self made?
Speaker 3 (40:12):
Right?
Speaker 1 (40:12):
Would I say that I was self made in twenty nineteen? No, exactly,
you know, my hat, my mom and dad got me
to the place that I am today.
Speaker 3 (40:21):
But then you built from there. Yes, and that's what
is important. And I feel like so many people like
don't understand that, and they, like, I guess, get antsy
or like annoyed. When people say like, oh, I'm self made,
I'm self made, They're like, well, no, you're not. I'm like, no,
you don't understand, Like how much more there is behind
the scenes that is actually happening.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
Yeah, exactly, and like, yeah, we are self made. Our
parents don't help us anymore. No, we got to the
place that we were and have this life because of
how hard we work. Yes, are we fortunate enough that
they gave us this life, of course, but this is
the life I want to give my kids too. Same
it's that this is the parent I want to be.
(40:58):
So it's it's a great example for us as well, like
as we get older.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
So it's like, yes, I love you, thank you for
being great parents.
Speaker 3 (41:06):
I love you.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
But what is the most expensive brand deal you have
ever been approached with? And what is one that you
have turned down?
Speaker 3 (41:17):
Most expensive brand deal I've ever been approached with? Hmmm,
I have to think for a.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
Second, take the time.
Speaker 3 (41:25):
Okay, I want to hear this. I mean it was
definitely like a high six figures. I feel like for
like a campaign.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
Oh I was I thought we were gonna say like
six zero zero er.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
I was like, wait what, I want to spit out
my manchi go what am I doing wrong?
Speaker 3 (41:42):
Yeah, it was definitely like a six figure deal. It
was probably something around Pride because I feel like that's
one area where I don't play around with, like, you know,
working with brands. I'm going to make sure that they're
like coughing it up because I think that's like really important.
But then a brand deal that I've turned down, I
(42:03):
have to think there was. There's definitely been a few.
I've turned down quite a few brands. I turned down
brands all the time. And if there's a skincare product
or something that doesn't work with me, like Sunday ry
Lee for example. I got it was for a vitamin
C campaign. It was a very very high rate. This
was a couple of years ago and it was still
(42:23):
a really high rate. But it was a vitamin C serum.
And I always try products out before I promote them.
Of course, I'm sure you do the same. Yeah, And
I'm so glad I did because I tried it on
and I broke out in full hives. And it was
the night before the House of Gucci premiere. I'll never
forget it.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
Oh great, and a mental.
Speaker 3 (42:43):
I had a mental breakdown. I was like freaking out.
I was also this is when I was still working
my full time job, actually, and I remember like icing
my face every day and I like sent I like
sent an email to like the Sunday Eli team, like
without my management on it. I was like, you guys.
I was like, I'm so so sorry. I was like,
my management won't explain it the way that I will.
But I was like, I can't do this partnership anymore.
I love the I love the brand. If there's another
(43:04):
product we can do down the line, let me know,
but I will not be doing this one.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
Wow. I mean valid though, and also just shows like
very true to your followers and like your brand.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
But you can't wait for this question.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
You've mentioned spending around fifty k a month on average.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
Help me understand break this down for me.
Speaker 3 (43:26):
I think it's the Uber Blacks probably, but I feel
like that's that's on a high on a high.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
On a high month. And also that I also think
your rent.
Speaker 3 (43:38):
Yeah, that's a quarter of it. And my mortgage that
I pay for the house, and my car and my
mom's car. And I have a lot of people. Yes,
I have a lot of people that I take care of,
and my team and my publicist. Yeah, you know lawyers.
Like that includes pretty much everything.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
So there's like a lot at stake.
Speaker 3 (43:56):
It's not like that includes my investments that I set
aside every month.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
Okay, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
I was also going to ask you, are you more
of a saver or more of an investor?
Speaker 3 (44:03):
Investor? I love investing. I have an incredible finance to you.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
But you have a Fidelity account.
Speaker 3 (44:10):
I don't have a Fidelity account, and my mom works
at Fidelity and she berates me every day because I
don't do Fidelity. I have a JP Morgan account and
I have an amazing team at JP Morgan. But no,
I just too yeah period. And I do like my
own crypto investing on the side, like ok just for fun.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
Okay, see I don't understand.
Speaker 3 (44:32):
Oh, I'll teach you down the coinbase.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
Really you do it like that on your phone? Christian?
Does it? You know? I'm but I feel like I
would I would trust you.
Speaker 3 (44:41):
Yeah, yeah, I feel what to do. Yeah, I think
that finance needs to be a little bit more transparent
for people like us, like in this industry too, It's
like it can be so fun, especially like the girls
in the gays need to be investing their money, Like
we can't just leave this for the boys.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
No.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
Also, all I hear about X.
Speaker 3 (45:00):
You need to buy it, Okay, Yeah, you're in it.
Wait for it, yeah, wait for it to dip, and
then you need to buy Okay.
Speaker 2 (45:05):
Yeah, Christian's been in it for like four years.
Speaker 3 (45:08):
I've been It's It's got.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
Rude though, rude that like really informed me about what's
going on. And then now I hear about it like
here are these numbers that he's saying.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
Like, oh, if it hits like this is going to
be really great.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
And I'm like, you're splitting the profit, literally splitting anything like.
Speaker 2 (45:27):
Because that's rude, Like rude. Okay.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
So do you see yourself living in New York City
for the foreseeable future.
Speaker 3 (45:39):
I don't know. I feel like I'm really happy here
right now. I've built such a great life for myself
and like, I have so many incredible friends and I've
lived here for almost eight nine years. Now, and I
feel like the only time that I would leave is
probably when I feel like I'm ready to have kids,
because I don't see myself raising kids in the city
(45:59):
really okay, I feel like it would be too difficult
and too expensive.
Speaker 2 (46:03):
Yeah, well it's true.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
I mean it's so expensive and you could probably just
realize the difference of like even when you bought your
family a home in Texas, like the difference is just insane.
Speaker 3 (46:14):
No, like that, how I think you would go back
to Texas? Yeah, yeah, I could see myself doing that.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
Yeah, I mean I would. Yeah, it's like I would.
Speaker 1 (46:22):
And even you know, living in Jersey my whole life,
just seeing how expensive it is to live in Jersey
compare like the difference of other states. It's wild, and
I totally understand why people make the move or even
living in California first, living in New Jersey California is insane.
(46:44):
So it's just there's the difference of states is like
really wild, and I mean I totally get it. Kids
are so expensive too, and I'm like.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
Unfortunately selfish.
Speaker 3 (46:54):
Yeah, I'm like two max yeah, same, yeah, right, maybe three, Okay,
that's a lot. Two to three, that's a lot.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
I don't know about my What is your favorite thing
about New York City?
Speaker 3 (47:08):
Probably the people. I feel like everyone that I've met
in New York I've built so many incredible relationships and
so many friendships that I still have today. I'm friends
with all of my friends from college still, I'm friends
with a lot of my old coworkers, a lot of
people that I worked with when I was in, you know,
on the other side of the industry. And yeah, I
think the people in New York are there's nothing else
(47:31):
like it. There's no other city that.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
Has If you're worried about meeting people, move here. Moved
to New York. Yeah. So we both have boyfriends that
are in the public eye.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
What do you think is a fair balance between them
obviously supporting us, but then they also want to live
their normal life and them adjusting to this world is
definitely difficult at times, And I feel like they both,
both of our boyfriends do a very good job of
supporting us and really making us feel supported, but there's
(48:03):
a fine line of when it's too much for them.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
Or we want more.
Speaker 3 (48:07):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, what.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
Do you think is like a good balance?
Speaker 3 (48:10):
It's hard. I feel like we have been in this industry,
we understand it so well, and I think for anyone
who's dating someone in the spotlight, it can be so
intimidating and so overwhelming and it's scary. They didn't sign
up for this. We did, yeah, And like, I think
the biggest thing that I've learned in my years of
(48:31):
doing this is that, like, I have to try my
best to put myself in their shoes and have empathy
for that situation, but at the same time communicate my
needs and it's not something that can go unset. I
feel like there are so many things in relationships that
are just like expectations, like you expect your boyfriend to
(48:51):
buy you flowers and celebrate your anniversaries, But like when
you're in this industry, there's a new layer of expectations
that then get added on where it's like I expect
you to show ap and support me in my work endeavors. Yes,
but also like are you going to come with me
to do this red carpet? Like there's other layers of it.
Are you okay with being in these photos? Are you
okay with.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
Filming this scene?
Speaker 3 (49:11):
Right?
Speaker 1 (49:11):
And there's layers of that where yes, it comes so
natural to us but then it's scary for them because again,
they did not sign up for this, So asking them
to film a scene, to be on a red carpet,
even be in a TikTok video with us, that is.
Speaker 2 (49:28):
Exposing more and more of their life.
Speaker 3 (49:31):
To the public, right that they might not want exactly.
Speaker 1 (49:34):
So I think, you know, I think you and I
both balance it very well, and we both respect our boyfriends,
you know, boundaries and decisions because I kind of like
that they're.
Speaker 2 (49:46):
Not very mostly not gonna lie.
Speaker 3 (49:48):
I don't think I would ever date someone in the
public eye.
Speaker 2 (49:50):
Yeah, it's refreshing, you know.
Speaker 1 (49:53):
It's this feeling of Okay, I you're like so amazing
and you don't like, you're not like what is it
called like blindness, Like they're not blind by like the public,
And I don't know, I just I feel like that
is something that a lot of people sometimes like and cherish,
(50:15):
is like having their relationship a little separate but showing
glimpse of it.
Speaker 2 (50:19):
And I think that's.
Speaker 3 (50:20):
I think that's what you and I have both like done,
We've been trying to do that. I think that's it's
also cool for people to see because I think it
gives them more of a respect for the relationship and
they're like, Okay, wow, that's not just like for the show.
It's like they're like, actually, like this is like a
long term or like a serious you know, like there,
it's something we.
Speaker 2 (50:39):
Have to work through with them, right, not the audience.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
And as time goes on, I think slowly they become
more and more and more comfortable, but it doesn't start
off that way, and that's something that's very big. You
have to allow them to grow their confidence as well
and grow the comfortability of being in this space.
Speaker 2 (51:03):
Otherwise you're going to scare them away.
Speaker 3 (51:05):
Yea.
Speaker 1 (51:07):
So this was such an amazing episode. You have made
me so happy today and I'm so happy that you
felt safe to share your story in this space. And
I know so many listeners are going to be so
excited to hear from you. But that was it for
this week's episode of Casual Chaos.
Speaker 2 (51:27):
Until next time, Love you guys. Bye.
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