September 12, 2025 • 50 mins
Vice President Kamala Harris unleashes in her new book “107 Days,” exposing how the Biden White House failed to protect her while Fox News launched relentless attacks. In the excerpt of the upcoming book, Harris recalls being thrown under the bus by her own team, castigated for a Selma speech that went viral, and left to fend off negative narratives about staff turnover and chaos. VP Harris reveals how she had to build her own infrastructure of support because she could not rely on the West Wing. Her account frames betrayal from within and hostility from outside as defining tests of her vice presidency, while positioning her as a leader who survived political fire and refuses to be silenced.
🔥 Harris says the Biden White House threw her under the bus repeatedly
🔥 Fox News launched wild attacks while her own team stayed silent
🔥 Viral Selma speech praised by the public — but infuriated the West Wing
🔥 Harris built her own power after the White House refused to back her
#RolandMartinUnfiltered #BlackStarNetwork #KamalaHarris
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Vice President Kama Harris is soon to release her new book,
One hundred and seven Days. It details it details, of course,
the process after Joe Biden dropped out of the presidential
race and she and she actually took over as the nominee.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
And the first.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Excerpt from the book, the first first excerpt of the
book was dropped in The Atlantic and it already has
folks talking. In this excerpt, she talks about she labels
recklessness in terms of Democrats and not of course, pressing
Biden harder to not run. She also name checks Biden
(00:45):
and his wife Jill. She talks about how the White
House did not protect her, how they allowed attacks to
take place, and she literally, you know, says that basically
the Biden White House threw her under the bus numerous
times even and then she talked about a situation where
an event where I covered when she gave a speech
(01:06):
in Selma and she talked about what was happening in
Israel and Gaza and it was received very well.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
In the White House.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Hated that, and I remember that because we covered it then.
So it's so much in her first exert that we
talked about on this show. So this is a confirmation.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
As we say hashtag, we tried to tell you.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Actually at Tien was the communications director for Vice President
Kamala Harris, and she joins us right now as glad
to have you here. So, first of all, this exert
I mean coming out to boo, coming out hots exactly, I.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Don't want to go through it.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
We're had with some tech issues, so I can't actually
show it. The Atlantic has the whole deal. But one
of things that she she she opens up talking about
Divine nine speaking to them, the kind of groups that
she was trying to bring in, of the role that
she played, being an African American, all those sort of
different things, the energy she brought to the table. But
(02:05):
she then gets into this hole back and forth and
how she was new, staff was new, all these different things,
and how she was being constantly attacked and the White
House was not protecting her. And the reality is, and
I remember in real time, and I was one of
you were there, and I was one of the folks
(02:27):
who was saying externally, the attacks on her were coming
from inside the White House.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Oh you said that, Oh hell yes said it was
very obvious.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
And here is her saying, it's exactly what was going on.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
Sure, no, I was there, and that is actually what
was happening. I mean it was. It was an incredibly
challenging time because we were in the middle of COVID
Fox News, as she says in the excerpt, came out
of the gate, you know, trying to undermine her lower
confidence and her attack her on everything from her laf
(03:02):
to her her portfolio. I should say, she also says.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Exert in the book that listen, she had a pool
coverage she did.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
BP's never had that.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
They just sort of had, like some light stuff because
of who she was and how people were. She had
media covering her all the time, so every comment everything,
they were able to run with it.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Unlike when pants hell, we never knew what the hell.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
He was talking about.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Yeah, no, I agree, But I think the opportunity was
there for her to tell her own story in an
unprecedented way no other vice president had ever had. So
Joe Biden actually deserves credit for building a press pool
for her. I think that press pool was as many
as a dozen reporters, and that did create an opportunity
for us to really start to tell her story. But
(03:54):
that was just an incredibly challenging time we were in
the middle of COVID. There wasn't much happening so.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Those COVID, yes, but also it was fifty to fifty.
She couldn't leave DC a lot no, so even when
so that's when.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
The narrative started to bake. Where is Kamala Harri right?
Speaker 1 (04:10):
I was kind of like, y'all, there were so many
times she broke the record of the most ties in
history because she had to stay in DC a lot.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
And you're right, for all of twenty and twenty one.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
For a lot of twenty twenty two, both she and
Biden were grounded. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Can I just say this though, to your point about
the attacks coming from within, that's absolutely true. There's a
lot of truth to both sides that there were attacks
from coming that were coming from within. But here's the
thing I would like to just sort of level set,
is that you know, the job of the job of
the West Wing is to promote the president. Yes, the
job is not to promote the vice president. There were
(04:50):
times in which we asked for their health. There were
times in which they gave it. There were times in
which they did not. We got to a sort of
when we hit a fever pitch We're incredibly frustrated it
with the West Wing because we felt like they could
have done more to inoculate her from criticism. But I
will say the one thing that people hardly ever talk about,
and I hope she gets into this in her book,
(05:10):
is that really fortified her in a lot of ways.
It really positioned us to identify what her long term
needs were to build that outside infrastructure because you couldn't
depend on it from within the West Wing or from
within the White House, which became helpful to her as
she started to move down the process and when she
launched her own campaign, that infrastructure was there. That's why
(05:31):
I was able to kick in that quickly. You remember
when there were questions about whether or not she should
be next. You have the CBC coming, a whole lot
of outside advocates organizations. We started to build that foundation
for her because we realized we were going it alone.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
But here's so and again this is just the first excerpt,
but if we actually, if we just take this thing back,
the reason her being vice president was so completely different,
and also the reason why you had so much press
attention on her was because he was old and so
(06:05):
one of the things right and so it was from
day one, it was a lot of one term, She's
gonna run all of that.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
And that waved some tension.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
First of all, I'm a set roller, is gonna say no.
That created a lot of tension. And let me also
be clear, a lot of that tension it was West wing,
but a lot was East wing. And it's some stuff
that I know but hopefully's in a book. So so
here's so so all of a sudden, here you have
this young, vibrant African American woman juxtapose Joe Biden, old
(06:44):
white guy in terms of movement. To your point, Biden
did things with her that Obama never did with him.
There was so many times when she spoke before him
as opposed to just stand there.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Because we used to laugh the Biden people outide of
the room. We used to laugh him out of the
room when they wanted to do things. I mean, you know,
the job is not for us to make room for you.
What Biden did effectively, well, was he made room for himself.
You remember when he got ahead of the president on
gay marriage, for example, he made his own space.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
But I also remember during that time when he was
trying to give up, he was giving Obama advice when
it came to the Foorid of Care Act and the
Nuns and Catholics, they weren't listing, and Biden was like,
well that was a off. That was a private conversation
he had with some Sunday morning show hosts he talked about.
He was like, they wouldn't pay attention. I tried to
tell him, but in this case, so he was providing that.
But the issue here and so when I think people
(07:37):
need to understand there's a difference between what Biden wanted
to happen and what the people around Biden wanted to
happen and what she touches on him in here because
when she talks about when she talks about the attacks,
she says, when Fox News attacked me on everything from
my lab to my tone of voice, to who I
dated my twenties acclaiming I was a DEI higher the
(07:58):
White House rarely pushed back with my actual resume. Two
term elected DA top copy the second largest Department of
Justice in the United States, Center representing one of the
eight Americans. Lorraine Vowles, my chief of staff constantly had
to advocate for my role at events. Quote, She's not
going to stand there like a pilot plant, give her
two minutes of remarks, have her introduce the president. They
had a huge comms team, they had Karine Jean Pierre
(08:19):
briefing in the press room every day, but getting anything
positive said about my work or any defense against untrue
attacks was almost impossible. And the thing that she talks
about when she went to France with Macrone and how
all these different happened. But this is one of the
things that she references that this is where it came
back to bidenm so because they were.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Allowing certain things to happen. And we know a lot of.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
The I remember the stories she addresses, losing staff and
she's hard to work with. All of that plays their
role in her poll numbers coming down. The problem is
never thought they were going to need her in twenty four.
So the problem is you created, You created this thing
of suppressing her. Then when twenty four rolls around, you
(09:07):
needed her. So the work that you My point is
the things that hurt her twenty one twenty three, because
what I also know because I was told this from
multiple sources. Multiple people went to Joe Biden and said
take her off the ticket.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
And Biden told them.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Hell, no one person who said I was in the
room when the conversation was had, And so there were
people who were saying, take off, takeoff, take over. She's
going to replace the team around him, team around him,
outside people as well, Democratic donors, folks on Capitol Hill.
So the problem is you put you, you had, you
allow a tax on the VP inside it out, and
(09:48):
the problem is that contributed to those poll numbers being
so low, and then when Shelle all of a sudden
has to run, that now is a hindrance.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
So you played a role in that stuff.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Actually happy Well, I don't disagree with that. But I
think the most important point is they had conflicting interest.
It's not Joe Biden thought he was going to run
for a second term, so his interest was not to
figure out how to promote her. And when you're in
the middle of a global pandemic, the interest is to
solve what's in front of me. Right, he had his
own set of challenges. So I think that's what this
(10:20):
mostly boils down to, is this conflicting interest between the
two camps. But I mean, I want to challenge you
on a couple of things. I mean, just to be
fair to Joe Biden, and I appreciate that you're being
fair to him. His interest was to be helpful to
her in every exp I never heard a no. And
as I told you, I've worked in the Obama White House,
(10:40):
and we told Joe Biden know all the time. In fact,
we kind of ignored them. It's like they didn't even exist. Right,
it was a team of one. It was Barack Obama.
But I never heard Biden's Biden himself or Biden's close
people ever tell her no, you couldn't do No, you
can't do that, No, you can't do that. I never
heard that. Now that could have happened after I left, right.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
He writes this here At worst, I often learned that
the president's staff was adding fuel to negative narratives that
sprang up around me.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
One narrative, by the way, I said that to them
got to the team, my team, I mean when I
was on VPCM. I said, this is coming from internally.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
She writes.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
One narrative that took a stubborn hold was that I
had a chaotic office in unusually high staff turnover during
my first year. She said, the plain factors many people
who come to work with the new administration, New White House,
haven't done it before. It's a job unlike any other,
and not every person, no matter how talented in their
form position, can step up into such a high stress,
around the clock roll. Others final they just don't want
(11:34):
a job that doesn't pay particularly well, take a massive
toll on family, and rules out anything resembling a normal life.
I'm not going to keep people on who can't thrive
in their jobs. It's not fair of them, it's not
good for the country. Now, the whole point I'm bringing
up is that theme was constant. It was constant. It
wouldn't keep staff, well, not just keep staff, but it
was like it was political. It was Axios and the
(11:55):
New York Times. It was so and you were sitting
here going, damn, how many times it started? Don't get written?
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Yeah, as opposed to what actually is happening.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, I'm not going to
refute what the Vice President said, you know, but I
will say this, you know, for what it's worth, I
think the Vice President is the blueprint. I think she's
an exceptional leader that has, like a lot of women
leaders that doesn't get her full credit, and especially black
women leaders. Doesn't get her full credit when you think
(12:26):
about what she was able to achieve, not just breaking
the glass ceiling, but her efforts to repair our relationships
all over the world, the fact that she's secured five
billion dollars for the border, or to just the root
causes of migration. I would say that the third is
her work on maternal health, you know, leading the fight
(12:47):
on reproductive rights, all of that stuff. So my advice
as a strategist would have been to write a different book, honestly.
And the reason why I say this is because Kamala
Harris is well.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
First of all, this is just one extra from the book,
so we don't know.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
The full breath was in the book.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Absolutely, but the book is focused one hundred and seven days.
That's how it's that's how it's framed up. So my
point would have.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Been to focus on four years in that one hunred
and seven days.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
Absolutely. And the reason why I say that, can I
if you don't mind the reason why I say that
because I think that's the book that my daughter and
her generation need to hear. They need to hear how
she broke a glass ceiling, and they need to hear
what she was able to achieve. The second second point
I would add is because her achilles heel has always
been that people don't know her, don't know what she
stands for, and doesn't know what she's had done. So
(13:34):
my point would have been, my advice would have been
to lead with that. Now, all of this stuff you can.
You can talk about your challenges as a black woman
and as the first It could be. It could be.
But I'm just saying out the gay because the concern
is that this opens up a wound, you know, within
the party, and it serves as a major distraction. In addition,
serves as a fodder for Trump and the GFB.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
So I remember this vividly, she writes in Selma, Alabama,
at commemoration of Bloody Sunday, when civil rights marchers were
attacked and beaten once they crossed the edmen pedus bridge.
I gave a strong speech on the humanitarian crisis in
God's and at this point you had already left. Desperate
people had been shot when they swarmed the food truck,
and I spoke to families reduced to eating leaves or
animal feed, women prematurely giving birth for literle or no
(14:18):
medical care, and children dying for malnutrition and dehydration. I
reiterated my strong support for Israel's security and called on
Hermas to release the hostages and accept the ceasefire agreement.
Then on the table, I also called on Israel for
greater access to aid. And it was a speech that
had been vetted and approved by the White House and
the National Security Council. It went viral, and the West
(14:40):
Wing was displeased. I was castigated for apparently delivering it
too well. Their thinking was zero sum. If she's shining,
he's dimmed. None of them grasped that if I did well,
he did well, that given the concern about his age,
my visible success as his vice president was vital. It
would serve as a testament to his judgment in choosing me,
(15:03):
and a reassurance that if something happened, the country was
in good hands. My success was important for him. His
team didn't get it. That's how the excerpt ends. Now.
The reason I remember that sure because I flew in
the Air Force to with her to Selma, and I remember
the speech in many people, and I remember the reaction
the people who were there, and then the reaction external,
(15:24):
And then I remember the next seven days and the
White house was pissed and we were like, how why
would like it was like, what are you doing?
Speaker 2 (15:34):
How are you mad?
Speaker 1 (15:36):
That that was received well when that's why you sent
her out to say it.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
It was the most unbelieve right.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
It was like and in fact, and in fact the
speech had been changed and they literally had approved every
word in it. So I remember covering that in real
time and what she's saying, report and hearing that, and
it was like, how are you mad? And and that
was I was talking to. What I was told was
she literally was like, hey, there was something else going on. Hey,
(16:09):
I can't wait into that right now, because I got
my ass kicked on the Selma speech.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
It was the dumbest thing in the world.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
I was just sitting there going, that's why you have
a vice president.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
Yeah, I mean there were many days, many nights where
I went over to the West wing and argue that
it was in his interests to help elevate her, that
it was in his interest to protect her and innoculate her,
that it was in the party and the nation's interest
to position this woman and you know, historic figure right
to position this woman successfully for whatever was to come.
(16:47):
Because the reality is when we started in the White
House the first year we walked in, and the understanding
between her and the staff is that you could be
the president at any moment, right literally, you have to
be prepared to every vice president, but definitely her because
of his age. So you're absolutely right, and she's absolutely right.
(17:08):
We were insanely perplexed by the fact that they didn't seem
to absorb that concept. And the only thing I can
attribute it to is that they had these conflicting interests
that why would I need to promote you if I'm
going to be next in line, if I'm going to
run for two terms? But can I just say this,
I mean, I love Joe Biden, but if I want
(17:30):
to extend this argument, I would extend it all the
way through the election. I remember at certain points in
the election, I'm like, where's Joe Biden? Why isn't he
in North Carolina with a mop? They had just had
a storm, a horrible storm, mopping up streets, Like why
isn't he doing more to turn out the Biden voter?
Because there is a specific Biden voter, And there were
(17:51):
points at which days and weeks he was not even
on the campaign trip. I think so it raises all
these questions to her point twenty.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Four for me was just that whole that whole thing
I hope here was just so insane. And remember we
had not seen an incumbent president step beside since LBJ
nineteen sixty eight, and his numbers were so low people
were still pissed off. It was so it was sort
(18:19):
of like, do we send them out? Do we not
send them out? What do we do? And then again,
of course her campaign manager was his campaign manager was also.
Oh no, I was.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Also in the West Wing.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
No promise saying it.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
We're saying the West Wing is in support am here.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
I have no problem saying it was out here.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Oh I got no problems. Canna said it before. General
Melee Dealer and Anita Done were part of the problem
in hurting Vice President Kama Harris.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
Why keep them on the huh?
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Why?
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Well again, because again this is where this is where
the when you talk about just how the craziness of it,
there's a different you and you know this working inside
of politics, whether it's for the Vice president speaking Nanay Pelosi,
there was a difference between the chief in their relationships
(19:10):
with let's say a VP or another senator or another member.
But it's different when staff has their own agendas and
there are different people on staff who operates differentlydges not.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Because and she brings it up.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
She wrote about of course, when she when she criticized
when she criticized President Biden during the Vice President Biden
during the campaign when it came to bussing, And I
know from on reporting there were people on Joe Biden's
staff who never got over it.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Absolutely, never got over absolutely.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
And again I still go back to you're all at
bs going on because nobody thought they were gonna need
her after twenty four.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
But my point is you didn't have to wait to
twenty four. You needed her every day to her point,
you know what I mean. And I think that's the
thing they didn't they didn't accept, which was doubly insulting
for me. It wasn't just that you weren't positioning her
for a presidential one. My point is you're not even
levering her today to your advantage efficiently, effectively and maximizing
her presence to her point. What we try to build
the Vice president up was to drive this point that
(20:25):
she actually is the coalition builder she can build that
coalition and cultivate and foster that coalition he was going
to need or she was going to need to win
long term. I mean, Politico wrote about it, how she
brought in all of these groups and was meeting with
them in her ceremonial office. We designed meetings, We designed
all of that intentionally to not only build her infrastructure
(20:46):
and develop her relationship with all these groups, or strengthen
her relationship with all these groups, but really to position
him or her to win come whatever, you know, come
twenty twenty four. So that was my real thing. It's like, wait,
we're doing good things right now that could benefit you
and that you need to be elevating. But there was
a reluctancy and a hesitancy. I think it's because of
the grudges, the relationship dynamics, and the conflicting interest and.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
The point I'm making in Paine get rid of about
to come to y'all and the thing that just again
that jumps out at me. So because they were thinking, oh,
he's running again. He's running again. So you essentially you
ship it on your VP thinking yeah, we ain't gonna
need her.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
You had people no, no, no, no no. But I
know from my report.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
I mean, I mean, I don't disagree, I think so.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
But what I say when I say ship it on,
what I mean is because you did not think, you
did not think you really needed her, you let certain
things happen. Those things that happened caused her popularity, and
I'm not removing her responsibility for everybody had. And what
(21:57):
I'm saying is those things also played a part in
if you were here going down here, and then the
problem is when you needed her, when you you never
thought you needed her, when you needed her she was
starting here, and now the role that you played in
her being here and now she has to now fight
(22:20):
to come up. And so that to me, so the lesson,
the lesson for leaders, not just political leaders. The lesson
for leaders is none of us know what tomorrow, the
next hour of the this minute holes and so while
you may think you are number one and you got this,
(22:41):
you also have to recognize that you do have to
position your for the continuity of leadership, and decisions that
you make today could have negative consequences tomorrow. And we
saw the consequence of her losing and what we're in now,
and I just think I hope people learn from that
(23:02):
that in politics, don't always just take out the focal
on your side. Work with the people on your side
because you might really really need them a little bit later.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Go ahead, Yeah, I mean, I think I definitely agree
with you, And I mean I was in the building,
and I would say that that there were efforts made
to support the team and to support what the team
wanted to do, and to support the Vice President. So
I think there's truth in all of this. I think
she's right about ninety nine point nine percent of what
(23:36):
she's actually saying. But there were some opportunities that were
created that I think she took advantage of and she
knocked it out the park. But I think the interesting thing,
I want to go back to challenge you on one thing.
I met with the Vice President's team maybe two years
after I left, and I brought in CBS poll and
(23:56):
we were meeting to talk about what her accomplishments were
and why they weren't sticking, right, because like we knew
her all this stuff, they weren't sticking. I pulled out
this poll and I said, look at this poll right here. Okay,
now she's out performing Joe Biden among his own coalition.
(24:17):
So at one point, she was out performing in terms
of the polls, all those our base voters, everybody you
need to run. So my point to the team was
over index on targeting these constituencies right now, okay, in
your own interests over index. So yeah, I mean the
at one point the numbers did go down, but then
(24:39):
she kicked into high gear.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Well especially would really flip that she writes about the
Dobs decision. She and this was.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Before that, she really yes, and this was actually before
Dobbs where she's she Okay, the first year was.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Tough because Biden couldn't really do.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
Really it was the first year was tough. Second year
she starts to get her footing. By the third year
she's smoking. And so my point is you're already beaten.
Joe Biden among his own coalition. Now, I don't know
if they saw the same poll I did.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
I'm sure they did.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
That may have caused some more friction, who knows.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
What that third year, Yes, there was still people who
were going Joe Biden say drop her.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
Oh oh, no doubt, but no doubt. I think people
weren't looking at the numbers, and they're not political like
me to understand what that actually meant. And my point
to them was, you've got something you can cook with, right,
do you know what I mean to quote Donna Brazil,
add a little grease to it and this is gonna hit,
and this is gonna hit. And that's when she started
doing the college tours. Then Dobbs happened. She started traveling
the country when she's going down to La I mean
(25:36):
to Atlanta, meeting with rappers and other you know folks,
and that were key in those constituencies.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
So even even when you got the twenty four economic tour,
because even then Biden Stield was not out there a lot.
So once once I want to be got past COVID,
but she was.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
So there's a lot of there was a lot of opportunity,
correct there you had your own pool. Joe Biden was down.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Right about it. But I can tell you this here.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
I can definitely tell you from January to June, the
absolute struggle was with that campaign. Because that was also.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
The absolutely struggles with it.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
It was in terms of her visibility. It was the
conversations that I was having with people and the battle
that was happening internally in terms of trying to do
exactly what you're talking about there were people with forces
who did not want her doing those things. There were
others who were saying, what are you talking about, He's
not moving to these place.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Use her more half her out there talking me to it.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
So when she did the economic to it, that was
like ogain Adian city thing was kind of there. But
there were others who were really advocating for to go
even harder. And it was this tension in the campaign.
So you had a campaign tension, then you still had
a West Wing VP tension That made no sense to
me because I'm like you, y'o, you need to win.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
Yeah, But it all goes back down to the same
set of small set of people, both the West wing
and the campaign.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
You are right, and it was an extrict you already
named him. I mean that's unlike and unlike most. This
was a he had loyalist and it was an extremely
small cabal of folks who were driving No.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
I mean no, I'm laughing because I've been in this
business twenty five years and it's been the same small
cabal folks for twenty five years. It's been the same
small making all the decisions all the moremely small and
we're we're controlling everything, and we've seen all this sort
of stuff come out.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Let me go my panel. Rebecca to you first, thank.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
You so much for being on the show tonight. So
to my question, will Harris run again? And if so,
how was she need to position herself to be successful
through a very fraught and racous Democratic Democratic Party primary?
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Yeah, I mean I don't know the answer to that.
I don't think any one knows it. Excuse me, I'm sorry,
I thought it was here. Forgive me. I don't know. Okay, sorry,
forgive it. I don't think anyone knows the answer if
she's going to run again. I think it gets back
to what Roland said, whether or not it's a two part,
(28:19):
two part book deal. I think the if you, if
you ask me based on this particular book, does this
suggest she's going to run again? My answer would be no,
I don't there's nothing. But also I don't know. What
I don't know about what's in the book when I'm
hearing from her team is that she's going to get
into a lot of the details of the actual campaign,
but really close out with the way forward. And so
(28:41):
that's what I'm most curious about, is how she sort
of characterizes and described how do we move forward as
a party, as a people and as a nation. And
then to me, that'll be some indication whether or not
she's actually gonna runs.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Then and then in terms of positioning her self, I mean,
I think the most important points, the most important what
matters most with her has always been the same, which
is having validators out there talking about what she actually
has done. And I would love to see her she
does but own it even more like lean into what
(29:20):
made her an exceptional leader in this particular.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Book, right you? The second part is that what do
you get?
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (29:28):
No, I think I addressed it because.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
You got both Rebecca, Yep, she did that. Yeah, I
think I go right ahead.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Yeah, thank you for joining.
Speaker 5 (29:37):
I had the honor of being a youth director at
the DNC or in the campaign and got a chance
to travel with the country with the with the Vice president,
and I first hand saw the incredible energy that young
people had who wanted to volunteer and get involved, but
many didn't know as we as we are hearing the
behind the scenes dynamics that shaped the decision making and
the strategy.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
What do you wish the public?
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Uh, the public could.
Speaker 5 (30:01):
Better understand these these internal dynamics that I think you know,
influenced the outcome. And also do you think this sets
a blueprint for future vice presidents that may transition, you know,
midway through during campaigns.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Yeah, I mean, I think that one of the biggest
takeaways for me is this issue this word that I
mentioned earlier, which is agency that you know, I think
Shirley Chisholm said it best. You've got to bring your
own folding chair to the to the table. You know,
any particular leader, but especially black leaders, especially black women,
(30:39):
can't afford to be subjected to or maybe a better
way of characterizing it is being beholden to someone else's
vision for themselves. You know, there is there There was
a lot and a lot of opportunity that was created
for the vice president and I think, you know, I
(31:02):
would have my advice to any leader going forward is
when the door is cracked, you kick it all the
way open. That you don't wait for someone to give
you permission, to allow you to give you an assignment
to advocate for you as much as you can. You've
got to do it yourself. And I think that's my
top takeaway for future leaders. What was the second part
(31:23):
of your question, I'm sorry.
Speaker 5 (31:26):
Yeah, my second part would be, you know, the future
vice president and.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
Yeah, I mean, I mean, honestly, I think she established
an incredible blueprint. You know, I think it started slow
because we were in the middle of COVID, but once
she got her sea legs, you know, we were sort
of out of spring training, she was out of spring training,
and then she hit the ground running fast and hard.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
But I will say I still think there's a blueprint.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
Can I Can I just say there there is one?
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Well, a blueprint is also based upon the president and
what that person also allows for you to do.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
So my argument, I'm glad you said that. My argument
was always internally to the VP's team. He's not going
to tell you no. Why would he ever tell the
first woman and the first black person in that position,
know that anything you wanted and.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Pushed hard enough.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
If he says no, but you asked for you you've
gone so hard that wait them looking damn, I don't
let you do this, this this He know that?
Speaker 3 (32:24):
Okay, So the challenge for the leader is to know,
if we're talking about blueprints, know what you want so
you can go and advocate for and if you don't
get what you want, which I this wouldn't have happened
in this particular situation. Uh, you've got an outside infrastructure
that can push the White House to get you what
you want. But can I just say one other thing,
because there is some other thing about a blueprint what
(32:46):
I saw Joe Biden do, and I just I just
talked about this earlier. And maybe it's, you know, sort
of the white man in him and that privilege that
comes along with that. But there were several times where
he got ahead of the president. There were several times
when he went to the prison and said this is
what I want to do. I mean before he I
don't know that the story is even told, but before
(33:06):
he was before the inauguration in nine he went to
the President said I want the Recovery Act. Now, let
me tell you how genius that was. You know what
that means. I'm only going to get likely, You're only
going to get one bill pass likely. You know, worst
case scenario, that was going to be the first one.
Why would he choose that one? Because that would enable
him to go all around the country write checks, purple states,
(33:27):
blue states districts, establish his own infrastructure so he was
thinking long term about his own future.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
No, no, no, no. We also know that he asked
for a lot about them, let him do some stuff.
And then Harry was like, get his ass out of here.
He missed my negotiations.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
Absolutely yeah, and he would and then he became marginalized.
But he never stopped knocking on the door.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
But here's the thing that he needed the vice president.
Here's the other thing that I think, and again, this
is why I disagree with this notion of a blueprint.
The difference with Biden. First, you're talking about a person
who was the creature of the United States Senate, who
had extensive Capitol Hill relations, who had extensive foreign relations,
(34:13):
serving as a chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.
One of the reasons he was picked served on the
committee with Obama, and so he brought, frankly heft to
the position. She comes as vice president, gets elected sixteen,
so basically you're in the Senate three years before that
(34:36):
Attorney general.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
So now I.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
Think, I mean, and you know, she's worked at every level.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
I understand every level of government, But there is a
difference between being a DA in ag in California and
being a three year United States senator and serving as
vice president compared to let me just let me just finish,
compared to what he brought to the table. And I
think when she talks about staff not working at that level,
(35:07):
it also applies to her because that also was a
whole different animal than she ever experienced. And I only
know this just from personal conversations. She had to get
her footing, and it was like and one of the
criticisms of the Vice President and if I sat across
(35:28):
from her at dinner, well, actually I did say it
is that she often was so so careful, so meticulous,
that it contributed to problems. Her best two speeches as
vice president were actually at two funerals. First was in Buffalo,
(35:54):
second was Tyree Nichols. Even though Nichols was scripted, the
Buffalo one it because there was no script, there was
no speech, there was nothing sharp and called her up
to make some comments, and I saw her no notes,
no nothing, just speak off the top and the passion,
(36:16):
the energy, the compact, all of that with it. I
think one of her weaknesses is being so that what
it does is it constricts you from being you. If
I go to the campaign, forget all the rallies. It
was when she went when she had the rally, there
(36:37):
was a rally at the hangar at the Detroit Airport,
But it was the speech she gave at the Union Hall,
and I kept saying, y' ought to unleash that Harris.
And so I think for her, just like anybody else,
that first couple of years, she had to gain footing
with what that was. Unlike a Biden, who he had
(37:01):
operated in that power circle for so long.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Hell, he just to your point. He just rolled in
and say, hey, so let me that's what I want
to do.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
Let me interrupt you before I forget my point. But
I think as we talk about blueprints, one thing that
you have to understand going into that building, not just
the vice president or the president, even me as a staffer.
You have to understand your own power. Okay, So Joe
Biden's power is I know my way around the Senate,
I know policy, I know form, blah blah blah, I
(37:31):
got relationships, et cetera. Her powers. You had ninety four
percent of black women behind you. You had, you know,
that whole coalition that we cultivated for her, that were
that was behind her. So I think when you come
into the room, and you have to understand your your
history maker. I dare somebody, you know, I don't know
(37:52):
if I can curse, but I wish a motherfucker would
kind of an attitude exactly. So, So my point is
that the key is you have to always understand what
am I working with, why am I in this particular room,
and so if you if you can understand that, then
that informs your entire strategy.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Rebecca, do you have a question before you go? Okay,
Rebecca's gone. Zach had to leave earlier as well. Uh,
last last point here. I really hope, I really hope.
First of all, as Tyler asked it earlier, Yeah, we
(38:32):
don't know what she's gonna do. She always she's already
made a decision. She wasn't going to run for governor
of California. I never believed that she was going to
run for governor of California. When people were asking me,
I was like, gosh, y'all don't understand. You don't understand
what the personal toll of losing.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
Of being in office, right, I mean, that's exhaustly She's
been doing it since she was third.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
What I mean is, but being I get all of that,
But I'm talking about literally being on the cusp of
being president of the United States, first woman president of
the United States, but also losing to someone who's evil.
And so I remember having conversations with people close to
(39:22):
her and others like guys, I don't think for second,
I said, because you literally have to process. It's grief. People.
I tell the stories how she was in tears that night.
I'm like, y'all understand, losing is not simple. Being on
the cusp is not simple. You have to take some time.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
I never believe. I just felt that trying.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
To step into a governor's race was way too soon.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
So now you can't really win as a governor, and
to position yourself to be president, well, I mean, I mean,
that's that's a challenging thing to Fifornia. Vincent's other states, California,
and we're talking about California.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
But the other piece is that if your intention was
not to if your attention was not to run for
president one day, also making history of the first black
female governor is also history. But also California is the
fourth artist economy, and it is a perch by which
you can still be part of national conversation. But the
point I'm making here is I still believe there is
(40:26):
a tremendous role that she can play.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
Absolutely, I believe that.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
There's a wide open space. I look at what's happening
right now. Sure Obama created this jerrymandering redistricting thing with
Eric Holder afterwards, but I still think that what it's
missing right now is somewhat of a national stature who
can speak to those coalitions. Look at I look at Texas.
(40:56):
What do we said about our native Texas? The reality
is not it is ruby red. It's simply an unorganized
and disorganized Sure, now you got eighty one Democratic A
counting parties with two and fifty four county, but also to.
Speaker 3 (41:10):
The party just goes in and rapes them of all
their money. It doesn't reinvest it in the state.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
What I was just about to make, what I'm about
to make there is it would be helpful to have
someone of that of that stature who say, no, we're
gonna go in, We're gonna raise eight ten, twelve, fifteen
million or other number, and let's target eight ten House
seats to break this super majority. Let's really try to
have a competitive for United States Senate race. And still
there so the role is still there for her to play,
(41:35):
she said on Stephen Colbert in terms of the role
that she wants to play. So I do look forward
to during this book tour and after this book tour,
knowing what that is, even if it's not running for
president in twenty twenty eight, because I still believe it is.
It is going to be exponentially harder for her more
(41:57):
than anybody else, because she's going to have to addressed
every single day how to raise one four five billion
and lose? Uh. And then the people who are still
pissed off. And the other thing is is here we
know how politics work. People are gonna be looking for
a fresh voice, fresh face. Then the question is they
were like, we ain't trying to go back. So I
can't wait till her people hit me the other day
(42:18):
they said, hey, you want to see you in the
book before it drops, and so I can't wait to
read it.
Speaker 3 (42:24):
You're interview too. I can't wait for your interview with
her too.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
Yes, trust I've already had that conversation, and I know
you have with some folks as well. I'm gonna be
sitting out with Roland, so we'll see how that happens.
But I really do want people to read this expert excerpt,
to read the book, to really understand that they may
(42:48):
love the West Wing, they mean love Scandal, they mean
love any of those political shows I watch, but I
ain't nothing like the real thing.
Speaker 3 (42:55):
Yeah, I mean, and I hope that and and I'm
hearing from Maritine that you will that it gets into
some really constructive, productive points. Because she was in a
unique position as the first woman in the first black woman,
and as a woman a black woman that's trying to
navigate the world and dealing with a lot of challenges
that she's dealing with. I think she has an incredible
opportunity to really get into some of those conversations that
(43:18):
we've never elevated nationally. What does it mean to be
the first in that particular role with that much power,
that much pressure, and that much sort of adversity. How
did you overcome that? How did And That's what I
would love to see her talk about on the tour
because that's something that we can all take away, not
just me but my daughter in the next generation on
(43:39):
how we can all show up bigger, better and more
effectively in our roles and.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
In the world.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
Last point I'll make here for the people who are
watching and listening why they need to understand also why
black on media matters. It used to really piss me
off to listen to people and mom radio show host podcasters, writers, commentators,
(44:07):
but how she wasn't interfacing with black leadership and used
to piss me off because I said, y'all don't know
how to check a Twitter feed. The reality is, and
I ain't got no. She had way more meetings and
discussions with black leadership. And when I say black leadership,
(44:30):
she expanded the the the the access of black leadership
even more than Obama did.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
I think our first meeting was black with a Black
Chamber of commerce.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
But what I'm talking about, I'm talking what I'm talking,
So it was broad. When I'm talking just civil rights leader.
Speaker 3 (44:50):
Sure, that's what.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
I mean. People understand it was yes, chains of commerce, Yes,
it was D nine. Yes, it was so broad. Hard
The problem was and the point I'm getting to that
people understand the reason black on media is so important,
it's because so much of that stuff no one knew
because black on media is not in a position to
(45:15):
be able to pay multiple White House correspondents or congressional
correspondent air force to actually be on on on on
air force too and be a part of the pool.
And so there was because even when she traveled, there
were people she would meet with. I remember, I remember
when she went to Detroit, they asked me to go
(45:35):
be a part of the pool. And I hate being
a part of the pool. I just despise being a
part of the pool. I just hated it because of
the constriction. And I remember when she finished speaking, they
rushed us out and we're in the van and then
she's meeting with a group of African Americans in there,
and I'm telling her staff, why the fuck are we
sitting out here in the faith area. I'm like, don't
(45:56):
you notice the campaign going? You want folks to.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
Know that is happening.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
And so it was okay, damn, you're right, you're right,
you're right. Okay, you're right. And that was the thing
that I kept trying to get them to understand what
you have to show, what you have to say. But
I need our people to understand there's so many things
that we don't know what is happening because white media
ain't telling us, they ain't covering it, and that's and
(46:22):
so why we need people to support black on media
is because by having our folks in those places, we
can tell those stories in real time and not when
a book comes out three, four or five years later,
and so and then if more of us were aware
of those conversations, I think we wouldn't have had a
lot of the bs that was being thrown out there,
(46:43):
what she wasn't doing, we don't see her, and all
sort of stuff along those lines.
Speaker 3 (46:47):
Can I can I can I close on one note too?
Speaker 2 (46:50):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (46:51):
I think black own media is critically important, not just
for a black member, for all members, for you, for
our community to have access to all of these people
in what they're doing. But can I also add that
black staff with authority is insanely essential in these places,
and so we as a black collective should be advocating
(47:12):
for asking questions about who the hell looks like me,
that's at the table, that has budget authority, that can
go in and tell the president's team stand down, we're
not doing that. That can tell the vice president of
any of these elected officials what's happening behind their back
protect their own interests. So that is critically important and
(47:32):
it's not just at the White House, it's at the
Capitol as well. That's very important. And many of these
many many members that look like us don't have those
folks around them. More importantly, they're not also at the
table advocating for going.
Speaker 1 (47:48):
Let's just pick that when they do, Hi, who do
not advocate for us? No?
Speaker 3 (47:52):
I mean, and it's intentional to some degree, it's insanely intentional.
But the point too is even if you're at the table,
I need to know that you've got budget authority.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
Y'all. People are hilarious talk about what we need to
see her shoes? I need to stop.
Speaker 2 (48:08):
I don't know what the hell?
Speaker 3 (48:10):
Do you know how many times I get that?
Speaker 1 (48:12):
Do you want first of all, I see everything, okay,
and tell them what they look like? See the ship, y'all?
They black calm down. See they don't realize I monitor
the chat while things happening.
Speaker 6 (48:22):
So uh.
Speaker 1 (48:23):
The book is one hundred and seven days, y'all. Vice
President of Kamala Harris can't wait to drop again. They're
gonna be sending me a copy. Yes, I will read
it because some other political books I got them on
the shelf, I didn't read them because I didn't give
a damn. Actually at t M woul appreciate it. Thanks
a bunch before the having your back, uh and Woodland
High School you went to in Houston.
Speaker 3 (48:44):
Clear Lank High School? What you mean, is there any other?
Speaker 1 (48:47):
Is there any other Jackyades?
Speaker 2 (48:51):
Is there any other?
Speaker 1 (48:52):
Feel like?
Speaker 3 (48:52):
Actually in Houston, No, y'all, y'all, y'all co opted us
because we got NASA.
Speaker 1 (48:56):
Y'all want to let us not be in Houston and broke,
so y'all need that tax base. But yes, yours truly
went to the Jackades High School.
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Speaker 1 (50:29):
Thank you.
Vice President Kama Harris is soon to release her new book,
One hundred and seven Days. It details it details, of course,
the process after Joe Biden dropped out of the presidential
race and she and she actually took over as the nominee.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
And the first.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Excerpt from the book, the first first excerpt of the
book was dropped in The Atlantic and it already has
folks talking. In this excerpt, she talks about she labels
recklessness in terms of Democrats and not of course, pressing
Biden harder to not run. She also name checks Biden
(00:45):
and his wife Jill. She talks about how the White
House did not protect her, how they allowed attacks to
take place, and she literally, you know, says that basically
the Biden White House threw her under the bus numerous
times even and then she talked about a situation where
an event where I covered when she gave a speech
(01:06):
in Selma and she talked about what was happening in
Israel and Gaza and it was received very well.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
In the White House.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Hated that, and I remember that because we covered it then.
So it's so much in her first exert that we
talked about on this show. So this is a confirmation.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
As we say hashtag, we tried to tell you.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Actually at Tien was the communications director for Vice President
Kamala Harris, and she joins us right now as glad
to have you here. So, first of all, this exert
I mean coming out to boo, coming out hots exactly, I.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Don't want to go through it.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
We're had with some tech issues, so I can't actually
show it. The Atlantic has the whole deal. But one
of things that she she she opens up talking about
Divine nine speaking to them, the kind of groups that
she was trying to bring in, of the role that
she played, being an African American, all those sort of
different things, the energy she brought to the table. But
(02:05):
she then gets into this hole back and forth and
how she was new, staff was new, all these different things,
and how she was being constantly attacked and the White
House was not protecting her. And the reality is, and
I remember in real time, and I was one of
you were there, and I was one of the folks
(02:27):
who was saying externally, the attacks on her were coming
from inside the White House.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Oh you said that, Oh hell yes said it was
very obvious.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
And here is her saying, it's exactly what was going on.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
Sure, no, I was there, and that is actually what
was happening. I mean it was. It was an incredibly
challenging time because we were in the middle of COVID
Fox News, as she says in the excerpt, came out
of the gate, you know, trying to undermine her lower
confidence and her attack her on everything from her laf
(03:02):
to her her portfolio. I should say, she also says.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Exert in the book that listen, she had a pool
coverage she did.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
BP's never had that.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
They just sort of had, like some light stuff because
of who she was and how people were. She had
media covering her all the time, so every comment everything,
they were able to run with it.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Unlike when pants hell, we never knew what the hell.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
He was talking about.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Yeah, no, I agree, But I think the opportunity was
there for her to tell her own story in an
unprecedented way no other vice president had ever had. So
Joe Biden actually deserves credit for building a press pool
for her. I think that press pool was as many
as a dozen reporters, and that did create an opportunity
for us to really start to tell her story. But
(03:54):
that was just an incredibly challenging time we were in
the middle of COVID. There wasn't much happening so.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Those COVID, yes, but also it was fifty to fifty.
She couldn't leave DC a lot no, so even when
so that's when.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
The narrative started to bake. Where is Kamala Harri right?
Speaker 1 (04:10):
I was kind of like, y'all, there were so many
times she broke the record of the most ties in
history because she had to stay in DC a lot.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
And you're right, for all of twenty and twenty one.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
For a lot of twenty twenty two, both she and
Biden were grounded. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Can I just say this though, to your point about
the attacks coming from within, that's absolutely true. There's a
lot of truth to both sides that there were attacks
from coming that were coming from within. But here's the
thing I would like to just sort of level set,
is that you know, the job of the job of
the West Wing is to promote the president. Yes, the
job is not to promote the vice president. There were
(04:50):
times in which we asked for their health. There were
times in which they gave it. There were times in
which they did not. We got to a sort of
when we hit a fever pitch We're incredibly frustrated it
with the West Wing because we felt like they could
have done more to inoculate her from criticism. But I
will say the one thing that people hardly ever talk about,
and I hope she gets into this in her book,
(05:10):
is that really fortified her in a lot of ways.
It really positioned us to identify what her long term
needs were to build that outside infrastructure because you couldn't
depend on it from within the West Wing or from
within the White House, which became helpful to her as
she started to move down the process and when she
launched her own campaign, that infrastructure was there. That's why
(05:31):
I was able to kick in that quickly. You remember
when there were questions about whether or not she should
be next. You have the CBC coming, a whole lot
of outside advocates organizations. We started to build that foundation
for her because we realized we were going it alone.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
But here's so and again this is just the first excerpt,
but if we actually, if we just take this thing back,
the reason her being vice president was so completely different,
and also the reason why you had so much press
attention on her was because he was old and so
(06:05):
one of the things right and so it was from
day one, it was a lot of one term, She's
gonna run all of that.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
And that waved some tension.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
First of all, I'm a set roller, is gonna say no.
That created a lot of tension. And let me also
be clear, a lot of that tension it was West wing,
but a lot was East wing. And it's some stuff
that I know but hopefully's in a book. So so
here's so so all of a sudden, here you have
this young, vibrant African American woman juxtapose Joe Biden, old
(06:44):
white guy in terms of movement. To your point, Biden
did things with her that Obama never did with him.
There was so many times when she spoke before him
as opposed to just stand there.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Because we used to laugh the Biden people outide of
the room. We used to laugh him out of the
room when they wanted to do things. I mean, you know,
the job is not for us to make room for you.
What Biden did effectively, well, was he made room for himself.
You remember when he got ahead of the president on
gay marriage, for example, he made his own space.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
But I also remember during that time when he was
trying to give up, he was giving Obama advice when
it came to the Foorid of Care Act and the
Nuns and Catholics, they weren't listing, and Biden was like,
well that was a off. That was a private conversation
he had with some Sunday morning show hosts he talked about.
He was like, they wouldn't pay attention. I tried to
tell him, but in this case, so he was providing that.
But the issue here and so when I think people
(07:37):
need to understand there's a difference between what Biden wanted
to happen and what the people around Biden wanted to
happen and what she touches on him in here because
when she talks about when she talks about the attacks,
she says, when Fox News attacked me on everything from
my lab to my tone of voice, to who I
dated my twenties acclaiming I was a DEI higher the
(07:58):
White House rarely pushed back with my actual resume. Two
term elected DA top copy the second largest Department of
Justice in the United States, Center representing one of the
eight Americans. Lorraine Vowles, my chief of staff constantly had
to advocate for my role at events. Quote, She's not
going to stand there like a pilot plant, give her
two minutes of remarks, have her introduce the president. They
had a huge comms team, they had Karine Jean Pierre
(08:19):
briefing in the press room every day, but getting anything
positive said about my work or any defense against untrue
attacks was almost impossible. And the thing that she talks
about when she went to France with Macrone and how
all these different happened. But this is one of the
things that she references that this is where it came
back to bidenm so because they were.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Allowing certain things to happen. And we know a lot of.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
The I remember the stories she addresses, losing staff and
she's hard to work with. All of that plays their
role in her poll numbers coming down. The problem is
never thought they were going to need her in twenty four.
So the problem is you created, You created this thing
of suppressing her. Then when twenty four rolls around, you
(09:07):
needed her. So the work that you My point is
the things that hurt her twenty one twenty three, because
what I also know because I was told this from
multiple sources. Multiple people went to Joe Biden and said
take her off the ticket.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
And Biden told them.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Hell, no one person who said I was in the
room when the conversation was had, And so there were
people who were saying, take off, takeoff, take over. She's
going to replace the team around him, team around him,
outside people as well, Democratic donors, folks on Capitol Hill.
So the problem is you put you, you had, you
allow a tax on the VP inside it out, and
(09:48):
the problem is that contributed to those poll numbers being
so low, and then when Shelle all of a sudden
has to run, that now is a hindrance.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
So you played a role in that stuff.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Actually happy Well, I don't disagree with that. But I
think the most important point is they had conflicting interest.
It's not Joe Biden thought he was going to run
for a second term, so his interest was not to
figure out how to promote her. And when you're in
the middle of a global pandemic, the interest is to
solve what's in front of me. Right, he had his
own set of challenges. So I think that's what this
(10:20):
mostly boils down to, is this conflicting interest between the
two camps. But I mean, I want to challenge you
on a couple of things. I mean, just to be
fair to Joe Biden, and I appreciate that you're being
fair to him. His interest was to be helpful to
her in every exp I never heard a no. And
as I told you, I've worked in the Obama White House,
(10:40):
and we told Joe Biden know all the time. In fact,
we kind of ignored them. It's like they didn't even exist. Right,
it was a team of one. It was Barack Obama.
But I never heard Biden's Biden himself or Biden's close
people ever tell her no, you couldn't do No, you
can't do that, No, you can't do that. I never
heard that. Now that could have happened after I left, right.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
He writes this here At worst, I often learned that
the president's staff was adding fuel to negative narratives that
sprang up around me.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
One narrative, by the way, I said that to them
got to the team, my team, I mean when I
was on VPCM. I said, this is coming from internally.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
She writes.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
One narrative that took a stubborn hold was that I
had a chaotic office in unusually high staff turnover during
my first year. She said, the plain factors many people
who come to work with the new administration, New White House,
haven't done it before. It's a job unlike any other,
and not every person, no matter how talented in their
form position, can step up into such a high stress,
around the clock roll. Others final they just don't want
(11:34):
a job that doesn't pay particularly well, take a massive
toll on family, and rules out anything resembling a normal life.
I'm not going to keep people on who can't thrive
in their jobs. It's not fair of them, it's not
good for the country. Now, the whole point I'm bringing
up is that theme was constant. It was constant. It
wouldn't keep staff, well, not just keep staff, but it
was like it was political. It was Axios and the
(11:55):
New York Times. It was so and you were sitting
here going, damn, how many times it started? Don't get written?
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Yeah, as opposed to what actually is happening.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, I'm not going to
refute what the Vice President said, you know, but I
will say this, you know, for what it's worth, I
think the Vice President is the blueprint. I think she's
an exceptional leader that has, like a lot of women
leaders that doesn't get her full credit, and especially black
women leaders. Doesn't get her full credit when you think
(12:26):
about what she was able to achieve, not just breaking
the glass ceiling, but her efforts to repair our relationships
all over the world, the fact that she's secured five
billion dollars for the border, or to just the root
causes of migration. I would say that the third is
her work on maternal health, you know, leading the fight
(12:47):
on reproductive rights, all of that stuff. So my advice
as a strategist would have been to write a different book, honestly.
And the reason why I say this is because Kamala
Harris is well.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
First of all, this is just one extra from the book,
so we don't know.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
The full breath was in the book.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Absolutely, but the book is focused one hundred and seven days.
That's how it's that's how it's framed up. So my
point would have.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Been to focus on four years in that one hunred
and seven days.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
Absolutely. And the reason why I say that, can I
if you don't mind the reason why I say that
because I think that's the book that my daughter and
her generation need to hear. They need to hear how
she broke a glass ceiling, and they need to hear
what she was able to achieve. The second second point
I would add is because her achilles heel has always
been that people don't know her, don't know what she
stands for, and doesn't know what she's had done. So
(13:34):
my point would have been, my advice would have been
to lead with that. Now, all of this stuff you can.
You can talk about your challenges as a black woman
and as the first It could be. It could be.
But I'm just saying out the gay because the concern
is that this opens up a wound, you know, within
the party, and it serves as a major distraction. In addition,
serves as a fodder for Trump and the GFB.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
So I remember this vividly, she writes in Selma, Alabama,
at commemoration of Bloody Sunday, when civil rights marchers were
attacked and beaten once they crossed the edmen pedus bridge.
I gave a strong speech on the humanitarian crisis in
God's and at this point you had already left. Desperate
people had been shot when they swarmed the food truck,
and I spoke to families reduced to eating leaves or
animal feed, women prematurely giving birth for literle or no
(14:18):
medical care, and children dying for malnutrition and dehydration. I
reiterated my strong support for Israel's security and called on
Hermas to release the hostages and accept the ceasefire agreement.
Then on the table, I also called on Israel for
greater access to aid. And it was a speech that
had been vetted and approved by the White House and
the National Security Council. It went viral, and the West
(14:40):
Wing was displeased. I was castigated for apparently delivering it
too well. Their thinking was zero sum. If she's shining,
he's dimmed. None of them grasped that if I did well,
he did well, that given the concern about his age,
my visible success as his vice president was vital. It
would serve as a testament to his judgment in choosing me,
(15:03):
and a reassurance that if something happened, the country was
in good hands. My success was important for him. His
team didn't get it. That's how the excerpt ends. Now.
The reason I remember that sure because I flew in
the Air Force to with her to Selma, and I remember
the speech in many people, and I remember the reaction
the people who were there, and then the reaction external,
(15:24):
And then I remember the next seven days and the
White house was pissed and we were like, how why
would like it was like, what are you doing?
Speaker 2 (15:34):
How are you mad?
Speaker 1 (15:36):
That that was received well when that's why you sent
her out to say it.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
It was the most unbelieve right.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
It was like and in fact, and in fact the
speech had been changed and they literally had approved every
word in it. So I remember covering that in real
time and what she's saying, report and hearing that, and
it was like, how are you mad? And and that
was I was talking to. What I was told was
she literally was like, hey, there was something else going on. Hey,
(16:09):
I can't wait into that right now, because I got
my ass kicked on the Selma speech.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
It was the dumbest thing in the world.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
I was just sitting there going, that's why you have
a vice president.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
Yeah, I mean there were many days, many nights where
I went over to the West wing and argue that
it was in his interests to help elevate her, that
it was in his interest to protect her and innoculate her,
that it was in the party and the nation's interest
to position this woman and you know, historic figure right
to position this woman successfully for whatever was to come.
(16:47):
Because the reality is when we started in the White
House the first year we walked in, and the understanding
between her and the staff is that you could be
the president at any moment, right literally, you have to
be prepared to every vice president, but definitely her because
of his age. So you're absolutely right, and she's absolutely right.
(17:08):
We were insanely perplexed by the fact that they didn't seem
to absorb that concept. And the only thing I can
attribute it to is that they had these conflicting interests
that why would I need to promote you if I'm
going to be next in line, if I'm going to
run for two terms? But can I just say this,
I mean, I love Joe Biden, but if I want
(17:30):
to extend this argument, I would extend it all the
way through the election. I remember at certain points in
the election, I'm like, where's Joe Biden? Why isn't he
in North Carolina with a mop? They had just had
a storm, a horrible storm, mopping up streets, Like why
isn't he doing more to turn out the Biden voter?
Because there is a specific Biden voter, And there were
(17:51):
points at which days and weeks he was not even
on the campaign trip. I think so it raises all
these questions to her point twenty.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Four for me was just that whole that whole thing
I hope here was just so insane. And remember we
had not seen an incumbent president step beside since LBJ
nineteen sixty eight, and his numbers were so low people
were still pissed off. It was so it was sort
(18:19):
of like, do we send them out? Do we not
send them out? What do we do? And then again,
of course her campaign manager was his campaign manager was also.
Oh no, I was.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Also in the West Wing.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
No promise saying it.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
We're saying the West Wing is in support am here.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
I have no problem saying it was out here.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Oh I got no problems. Canna said it before. General
Melee Dealer and Anita Done were part of the problem
in hurting Vice President Kama Harris.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
Why keep them on the huh?
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Why?
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Well again, because again this is where this is where
the when you talk about just how the craziness of it,
there's a different you and you know this working inside
of politics, whether it's for the Vice president speaking Nanay Pelosi,
there was a difference between the chief in their relationships
(19:10):
with let's say a VP or another senator or another member.
But it's different when staff has their own agendas and
there are different people on staff who operates differentlydges not.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Because and she brings it up.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
She wrote about of course, when she when she criticized
when she criticized President Biden during the Vice President Biden
during the campaign when it came to bussing, And I
know from on reporting there were people on Joe Biden's
staff who never got over it.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Absolutely, never got over absolutely.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
And again I still go back to you're all at
bs going on because nobody thought they were gonna need
her after twenty four.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
But my point is you didn't have to wait to
twenty four. You needed her every day to her point,
you know what I mean. And I think that's the
thing they didn't they didn't accept, which was doubly insulting
for me. It wasn't just that you weren't positioning her
for a presidential one. My point is you're not even
levering her today to your advantage efficiently, effectively and maximizing
her presence to her point. What we try to build
the Vice president up was to drive this point that
(20:25):
she actually is the coalition builder she can build that
coalition and cultivate and foster that coalition he was going
to need or she was going to need to win
long term. I mean, Politico wrote about it, how she
brought in all of these groups and was meeting with
them in her ceremonial office. We designed meetings, We designed
all of that intentionally to not only build her infrastructure
(20:46):
and develop her relationship with all these groups, or strengthen
her relationship with all these groups, but really to position
him or her to win come whatever, you know, come
twenty twenty four. So that was my real thing. It's like, wait,
we're doing good things right now that could benefit you
and that you need to be elevating. But there was
a reluctancy and a hesitancy. I think it's because of
the grudges, the relationship dynamics, and the conflicting interest and.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
The point I'm making in Paine get rid of about
to come to y'all and the thing that just again
that jumps out at me. So because they were thinking, oh,
he's running again. He's running again. So you essentially you
ship it on your VP thinking yeah, we ain't gonna
need her.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
You had people no, no, no, no no. But I
know from my report.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
I mean, I mean, I don't disagree, I think so.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
But what I say when I say ship it on,
what I mean is because you did not think, you
did not think you really needed her, you let certain
things happen. Those things that happened caused her popularity, and
I'm not removing her responsibility for everybody had. And what
(21:57):
I'm saying is those things also played a part in
if you were here going down here, and then the
problem is when you needed her, when you you never
thought you needed her, when you needed her she was
starting here, and now the role that you played in
her being here and now she has to now fight
(22:20):
to come up. And so that to me, so the lesson,
the lesson for leaders, not just political leaders. The lesson
for leaders is none of us know what tomorrow, the
next hour of the this minute holes and so while
you may think you are number one and you got this,
(22:41):
you also have to recognize that you do have to
position your for the continuity of leadership, and decisions that
you make today could have negative consequences tomorrow. And we
saw the consequence of her losing and what we're in now,
and I just think I hope people learn from that
(23:02):
that in politics, don't always just take out the focal
on your side. Work with the people on your side
because you might really really need them a little bit later.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Go ahead, Yeah, I mean, I think I definitely agree
with you, And I mean I was in the building,
and I would say that that there were efforts made
to support the team and to support what the team
wanted to do, and to support the Vice President. So
I think there's truth in all of this. I think
she's right about ninety nine point nine percent of what
(23:36):
she's actually saying. But there were some opportunities that were
created that I think she took advantage of and she
knocked it out the park. But I think the interesting thing,
I want to go back to challenge you on one thing.
I met with the Vice President's team maybe two years
after I left, and I brought in CBS poll and
(23:56):
we were meeting to talk about what her accomplishments were
and why they weren't sticking, right, because like we knew
her all this stuff, they weren't sticking. I pulled out
this poll and I said, look at this poll right here. Okay,
now she's out performing Joe Biden among his own coalition.
(24:17):
So at one point, she was out performing in terms
of the polls, all those our base voters, everybody you
need to run. So my point to the team was
over index on targeting these constituencies right now, okay, in
your own interests over index. So yeah, I mean the
at one point the numbers did go down, but then
(24:39):
she kicked into high gear.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Well especially would really flip that she writes about the
Dobs decision. She and this was.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Before that, she really yes, and this was actually before
Dobbs where she's she Okay, the first year was.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Tough because Biden couldn't really do.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
Really it was the first year was tough. Second year
she starts to get her footing. By the third year
she's smoking. And so my point is you're already beaten.
Joe Biden among his own coalition. Now, I don't know
if they saw the same poll I did.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
I'm sure they did.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
That may have caused some more friction, who knows.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
What that third year, Yes, there was still people who
were going Joe Biden say drop her.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
Oh oh, no doubt, but no doubt. I think people
weren't looking at the numbers, and they're not political like
me to understand what that actually meant. And my point
to them was, you've got something you can cook with, right,
do you know what I mean to quote Donna Brazil,
add a little grease to it and this is gonna hit,
and this is gonna hit. And that's when she started
doing the college tours. Then Dobbs happened. She started traveling
the country when she's going down to La I mean
(25:36):
to Atlanta, meeting with rappers and other you know folks,
and that were key in those constituencies.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
So even even when you got the twenty four economic tour,
because even then Biden Stield was not out there a lot.
So once once I want to be got past COVID,
but she was.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
So there's a lot of there was a lot of opportunity,
correct there you had your own pool. Joe Biden was down.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Right about it. But I can tell you this here.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
I can definitely tell you from January to June, the
absolute struggle was with that campaign. Because that was also.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
The absolutely struggles with it.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
It was in terms of her visibility. It was the
conversations that I was having with people and the battle
that was happening internally in terms of trying to do
exactly what you're talking about there were people with forces
who did not want her doing those things. There were
others who were saying, what are you talking about, He's
not moving to these place.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Use her more half her out there talking me to it.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
So when she did the economic to it, that was
like ogain Adian city thing was kind of there. But
there were others who were really advocating for to go
even harder. And it was this tension in the campaign.
So you had a campaign tension, then you still had
a West Wing VP tension That made no sense to
me because I'm like you, y'o, you need to win.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
Yeah, But it all goes back down to the same
set of small set of people, both the West wing
and the campaign.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
You are right, and it was an extrict you already
named him. I mean that's unlike and unlike most. This
was a he had loyalist and it was an extremely
small cabal of folks who were driving No.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
I mean no, I'm laughing because I've been in this
business twenty five years and it's been the same small
cabal folks for twenty five years. It's been the same
small making all the decisions all the moremely small and
we're we're controlling everything, and we've seen all this sort
of stuff come out.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Let me go my panel. Rebecca to you first, thank.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
You so much for being on the show tonight. So
to my question, will Harris run again? And if so,
how was she need to position herself to be successful
through a very fraught and racous Democratic Democratic Party primary?
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Yeah, I mean I don't know the answer to that.
I don't think any one knows it. Excuse me, I'm sorry,
I thought it was here. Forgive me. I don't know. Okay, sorry,
forgive it. I don't think anyone knows the answer if
she's going to run again. I think it gets back
to what Roland said, whether or not it's a two part,
(28:19):
two part book deal. I think the if you, if
you ask me based on this particular book, does this
suggest she's going to run again? My answer would be no,
I don't there's nothing. But also I don't know. What
I don't know about what's in the book when I'm
hearing from her team is that she's going to get
into a lot of the details of the actual campaign,
but really close out with the way forward. And so
(28:41):
that's what I'm most curious about, is how she sort
of characterizes and described how do we move forward as
a party, as a people and as a nation. And
then to me, that'll be some indication whether or not
she's actually gonna runs.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Then and then in terms of positioning her self, I mean,
I think the most important points, the most important what
matters most with her has always been the same, which
is having validators out there talking about what she actually
has done. And I would love to see her she
does but own it even more like lean into what
(29:20):
made her an exceptional leader in this particular.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Book, right you? The second part is that what do
you get?
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (29:28):
No, I think I addressed it because.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
You got both Rebecca, Yep, she did that. Yeah, I
think I go right ahead.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Yeah, thank you for joining.
Speaker 5 (29:37):
I had the honor of being a youth director at
the DNC or in the campaign and got a chance
to travel with the country with the with the Vice president,
and I first hand saw the incredible energy that young
people had who wanted to volunteer and get involved, but
many didn't know as we as we are hearing the
behind the scenes dynamics that shaped the decision making and
the strategy.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
What do you wish the public?
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Uh, the public could.
Speaker 5 (30:01):
Better understand these these internal dynamics that I think you know,
influenced the outcome. And also do you think this sets
a blueprint for future vice presidents that may transition, you know,
midway through during campaigns.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Yeah, I mean, I think that one of the biggest
takeaways for me is this issue this word that I
mentioned earlier, which is agency that you know, I think
Shirley Chisholm said it best. You've got to bring your
own folding chair to the to the table. You know,
any particular leader, but especially black leaders, especially black women,
(30:39):
can't afford to be subjected to or maybe a better
way of characterizing it is being beholden to someone else's
vision for themselves. You know, there is there There was
a lot and a lot of opportunity that was created
for the vice president and I think, you know, I
(31:02):
would have my advice to any leader going forward is
when the door is cracked, you kick it all the
way open. That you don't wait for someone to give
you permission, to allow you to give you an assignment
to advocate for you as much as you can. You've
got to do it yourself. And I think that's my
top takeaway for future leaders. What was the second part
(31:23):
of your question, I'm sorry.
Speaker 5 (31:26):
Yeah, my second part would be, you know, the future
vice president and.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
Yeah, I mean, I mean, honestly, I think she established
an incredible blueprint. You know, I think it started slow
because we were in the middle of COVID, but once
she got her sea legs, you know, we were sort
of out of spring training, she was out of spring training,
and then she hit the ground running fast and hard.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
But I will say I still think there's a blueprint.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
Can I Can I just say there there is one?
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Well, a blueprint is also based upon the president and
what that person also allows for you to do.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
So my argument, I'm glad you said that. My argument
was always internally to the VP's team. He's not going
to tell you no. Why would he ever tell the
first woman and the first black person in that position,
know that anything you wanted and.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Pushed hard enough.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
If he says no, but you asked for you you've
gone so hard that wait them looking damn, I don't
let you do this, this this He know that?
Speaker 3 (32:24):
Okay, So the challenge for the leader is to know,
if we're talking about blueprints, know what you want so
you can go and advocate for and if you don't
get what you want, which I this wouldn't have happened
in this particular situation. Uh, you've got an outside infrastructure
that can push the White House to get you what
you want. But can I just say one other thing,
because there is some other thing about a blueprint what
(32:46):
I saw Joe Biden do, and I just I just
talked about this earlier. And maybe it's, you know, sort
of the white man in him and that privilege that
comes along with that. But there were several times where
he got ahead of the president. There were several times
when he went to the prison and said this is
what I want to do. I mean before he I
don't know that the story is even told, but before
(33:06):
he was before the inauguration in nine he went to
the President said I want the Recovery Act. Now, let
me tell you how genius that was. You know what
that means. I'm only going to get likely, You're only
going to get one bill pass likely. You know, worst
case scenario, that was going to be the first one.
Why would he choose that one? Because that would enable
him to go all around the country write checks, purple states,
(33:27):
blue states districts, establish his own infrastructure so he was
thinking long term about his own future.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
No, no, no, no. We also know that he asked
for a lot about them, let him do some stuff.
And then Harry was like, get his ass out of here.
He missed my negotiations.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
Absolutely yeah, and he would and then he became marginalized.
But he never stopped knocking on the door.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
But here's the thing that he needed the vice president.
Here's the other thing that I think, and again, this
is why I disagree with this notion of a blueprint.
The difference with Biden. First, you're talking about a person
who was the creature of the United States Senate, who
had extensive Capitol Hill relations, who had extensive foreign relations,
(34:13):
serving as a chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.
One of the reasons he was picked served on the
committee with Obama, and so he brought, frankly heft to
the position. She comes as vice president, gets elected sixteen,
so basically you're in the Senate three years before that
(34:36):
Attorney general.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
So now I.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
Think, I mean, and you know, she's worked at every level.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
I understand every level of government, But there is a
difference between being a DA in ag in California and
being a three year United States senator and serving as
vice president compared to let me just let me just finish,
compared to what he brought to the table. And I
think when she talks about staff not working at that level,
(35:07):
it also applies to her because that also was a
whole different animal than she ever experienced. And I only
know this just from personal conversations. She had to get
her footing, and it was like and one of the
criticisms of the Vice President and if I sat across
(35:28):
from her at dinner, well, actually I did say it
is that she often was so so careful, so meticulous,
that it contributed to problems. Her best two speeches as
vice president were actually at two funerals. First was in Buffalo,
(35:54):
second was Tyree Nichols. Even though Nichols was scripted, the
Buffalo one it because there was no script, there was
no speech, there was nothing sharp and called her up
to make some comments, and I saw her no notes,
no nothing, just speak off the top and the passion,
(36:16):
the energy, the compact, all of that with it. I
think one of her weaknesses is being so that what
it does is it constricts you from being you. If
I go to the campaign, forget all the rallies. It
was when she went when she had the rally, there
(36:37):
was a rally at the hangar at the Detroit Airport,
But it was the speech she gave at the Union Hall,
and I kept saying, y' ought to unleash that Harris.
And so I think for her, just like anybody else,
that first couple of years, she had to gain footing
with what that was. Unlike a Biden, who he had
(37:01):
operated in that power circle for so long.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Hell, he just to your point. He just rolled in
and say, hey, so let me that's what I want
to do.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
Let me interrupt you before I forget my point. But
I think as we talk about blueprints, one thing that
you have to understand going into that building, not just
the vice president or the president, even me as a staffer.
You have to understand your own power. Okay, So Joe
Biden's power is I know my way around the Senate,
I know policy, I know form, blah blah blah, I
(37:31):
got relationships, et cetera. Her powers. You had ninety four
percent of black women behind you. You had, you know,
that whole coalition that we cultivated for her, that were
that was behind her. So I think when you come
into the room, and you have to understand your your
history maker. I dare somebody, you know, I don't know
(37:52):
if I can curse, but I wish a motherfucker would
kind of an attitude exactly. So, So my point is
that the key is you have to always understand what
am I working with, why am I in this particular room,
and so if you if you can understand that, then
that informs your entire strategy.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Rebecca, do you have a question before you go? Okay,
Rebecca's gone. Zach had to leave earlier as well. Uh,
last last point here. I really hope, I really hope.
First of all, as Tyler asked it earlier, Yeah, we
(38:32):
don't know what she's gonna do. She always she's already
made a decision. She wasn't going to run for governor
of California. I never believed that she was going to
run for governor of California. When people were asking me,
I was like, gosh, y'all don't understand. You don't understand
what the personal toll of losing.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
Of being in office, right, I mean, that's exhaustly She's
been doing it since she was third.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
What I mean is, but being I get all of that,
But I'm talking about literally being on the cusp of
being president of the United States, first woman president of
the United States, but also losing to someone who's evil.
And so I remember having conversations with people close to
(39:22):
her and others like guys, I don't think for second,
I said, because you literally have to process. It's grief. People.
I tell the stories how she was in tears that night.
I'm like, y'all understand, losing is not simple. Being on
the cusp is not simple. You have to take some time.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
I never believe. I just felt that trying.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
To step into a governor's race was way too soon.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
So now you can't really win as a governor, and
to position yourself to be president, well, I mean, I mean,
that's that's a challenging thing to Fifornia. Vincent's other states, California,
and we're talking about California.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
But the other piece is that if your intention was
not to if your attention was not to run for
president one day, also making history of the first black
female governor is also history. But also California is the
fourth artist economy, and it is a perch by which
you can still be part of national conversation. But the
point I'm making here is I still believe there is
(40:26):
a tremendous role that she can play.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
Absolutely, I believe that.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
There's a wide open space. I look at what's happening
right now. Sure Obama created this jerrymandering redistricting thing with
Eric Holder afterwards, but I still think that what it's
missing right now is somewhat of a national stature who
can speak to those coalitions. Look at I look at Texas.
(40:56):
What do we said about our native Texas? The reality
is not it is ruby red. It's simply an unorganized
and disorganized Sure, now you got eighty one Democratic A
counting parties with two and fifty four county, but also to.
Speaker 3 (41:10):
The party just goes in and rapes them of all
their money. It doesn't reinvest it in the state.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
What I was just about to make, what I'm about
to make there is it would be helpful to have
someone of that of that stature who say, no, we're
gonna go in, We're gonna raise eight ten, twelve, fifteen
million or other number, and let's target eight ten House
seats to break this super majority. Let's really try to
have a competitive for United States Senate race. And still
there so the role is still there for her to play,
(41:35):
she said on Stephen Colbert in terms of the role
that she wants to play. So I do look forward
to during this book tour and after this book tour,
knowing what that is, even if it's not running for
president in twenty twenty eight, because I still believe it is.
It is going to be exponentially harder for her more
(41:57):
than anybody else, because she's going to have to addressed
every single day how to raise one four five billion
and lose? Uh. And then the people who are still
pissed off. And the other thing is is here we
know how politics work. People are gonna be looking for
a fresh voice, fresh face. Then the question is they
were like, we ain't trying to go back. So I
can't wait till her people hit me the other day
(42:18):
they said, hey, you want to see you in the
book before it drops, and so I can't wait to
read it.
Speaker 3 (42:24):
You're interview too. I can't wait for your interview with
her too.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
Yes, trust I've already had that conversation, and I know
you have with some folks as well. I'm gonna be
sitting out with Roland, so we'll see how that happens.
But I really do want people to read this expert excerpt,
to read the book, to really understand that they may
(42:48):
love the West Wing, they mean love Scandal, they mean
love any of those political shows I watch, but I
ain't nothing like the real thing.
Speaker 3 (42:55):
Yeah, I mean, and I hope that and and I'm
hearing from Maritine that you will that it gets into
some really constructive, productive points. Because she was in a
unique position as the first woman in the first black woman,
and as a woman a black woman that's trying to
navigate the world and dealing with a lot of challenges
that she's dealing with. I think she has an incredible
opportunity to really get into some of those conversations that
(43:18):
we've never elevated nationally. What does it mean to be
the first in that particular role with that much power,
that much pressure, and that much sort of adversity. How
did you overcome that? How did And That's what I
would love to see her talk about on the tour
because that's something that we can all take away, not
just me but my daughter in the next generation on
(43:39):
how we can all show up bigger, better and more
effectively in our roles and.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
In the world.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
Last point I'll make here for the people who are
watching and listening why they need to understand also why
black on media matters. It used to really piss me
off to listen to people and mom radio show host podcasters, writers, commentators,
(44:07):
but how she wasn't interfacing with black leadership and used
to piss me off because I said, y'all don't know
how to check a Twitter feed. The reality is, and
I ain't got no. She had way more meetings and
discussions with black leadership. And when I say black leadership,
(44:30):
she expanded the the the the access of black leadership
even more than Obama did.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
I think our first meeting was black with a Black
Chamber of commerce.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
But what I'm talking about, I'm talking what I'm talking,
So it was broad. When I'm talking just civil rights leader.
Speaker 3 (44:50):
Sure, that's what.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
I mean. People understand it was yes, chains of commerce, Yes,
it was D nine. Yes, it was so broad. Hard
The problem was and the point I'm getting to that
people understand the reason black on media is so important,
it's because so much of that stuff no one knew
because black on media is not in a position to
(45:15):
be able to pay multiple White House correspondents or congressional
correspondent air force to actually be on on on on
air force too and be a part of the pool.
And so there was because even when she traveled, there
were people she would meet with. I remember, I remember
when she went to Detroit, they asked me to go
(45:35):
be a part of the pool. And I hate being
a part of the pool. I just despise being a
part of the pool. I just hated it because of
the constriction. And I remember when she finished speaking, they
rushed us out and we're in the van and then
she's meeting with a group of African Americans in there,
and I'm telling her staff, why the fuck are we
sitting out here in the faith area. I'm like, don't
(45:56):
you notice the campaign going? You want folks to.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
Know that is happening.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
And so it was okay, damn, you're right, you're right,
you're right. Okay, you're right. And that was the thing
that I kept trying to get them to understand what
you have to show, what you have to say. But
I need our people to understand there's so many things
that we don't know what is happening because white media
ain't telling us, they ain't covering it, and that's and
(46:22):
so why we need people to support black on media
is because by having our folks in those places, we
can tell those stories in real time and not when
a book comes out three, four or five years later,
and so and then if more of us were aware
of those conversations, I think we wouldn't have had a
lot of the bs that was being thrown out there,
(46:43):
what she wasn't doing, we don't see her, and all
sort of stuff along those lines.
Speaker 3 (46:47):
Can I can I can I close on one note too?
Speaker 2 (46:50):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (46:51):
I think black own media is critically important, not just
for a black member, for all members, for you, for
our community to have access to all of these people
in what they're doing. But can I also add that
black staff with authority is insanely essential in these places,
and so we as a black collective should be advocating
(47:12):
for asking questions about who the hell looks like me,
that's at the table, that has budget authority, that can
go in and tell the president's team stand down, we're
not doing that. That can tell the vice president of
any of these elected officials what's happening behind their back
protect their own interests. So that is critically important and
(47:32):
it's not just at the White House, it's at the
Capitol as well. That's very important. And many of these
many many members that look like us don't have those
folks around them. More importantly, they're not also at the
table advocating for going.
Speaker 1 (47:48):
Let's just pick that when they do, Hi, who do
not advocate for us? No?
Speaker 3 (47:52):
I mean, and it's intentional to some degree, it's insanely intentional.
But the point too is even if you're at the table,
I need to know that you've got budget authority.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
Y'all. People are hilarious talk about what we need to
see her shoes? I need to stop.
Speaker 2 (48:08):
I don't know what the hell?
Speaker 3 (48:10):
Do you know how many times I get that?
Speaker 1 (48:12):
Do you want first of all, I see everything, okay,
and tell them what they look like? See the ship, y'all?
They black calm down. See they don't realize I monitor
the chat while things happening.
Speaker 6 (48:22):
So uh.
Speaker 1 (48:23):
The book is one hundred and seven days, y'all. Vice
President of Kamala Harris can't wait to drop again. They're
gonna be sending me a copy. Yes, I will read
it because some other political books I got them on
the shelf, I didn't read them because I didn't give
a damn. Actually at t M woul appreciate it. Thanks
a bunch before the having your back, uh and Woodland
High School you went to in Houston.
Speaker 3 (48:44):
Clear Lank High School? What you mean, is there any other?
Speaker 1 (48:47):
Is there any other Jackyades?
Speaker 2 (48:51):
Is there any other?
Speaker 1 (48:52):
Feel like?
Speaker 3 (48:52):
Actually in Houston, No, y'all, y'all, y'all co opted us
because we got NASA.
Speaker 1 (48:56):
Y'all want to let us not be in Houston and broke,
so y'all need that tax base. But yes, yours truly
went to the Jackades High School.
Speaker 6 (49:12):
Hello, I'm Isaacas, the third founder and CEO fan Base,
and I'm here with a very important message. We are
at a turning point in the black community where we
must have equity and apps. We use that scale to
billions of dollars, but this time we own the infrastructure,
we own the culture, and we shape the future. And
fan Base is the future. Fan Base combines the free
(49:36):
functionality of Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube into an all in
one platform built for the evolution of social media and monetization.
With over one point four million users, that's real proof
that we are shifting the conversation of tech ownership and
equity for creators. So right now I want you to
go to start Engine dot com slash fan base and
(49:57):
invest today. The minimum to invest is three one hundred
and ninety nine dollars. That gets you sixty shares of
stocking fanbase at six to sixty five a share. This
marks a turning point in black ownership of social media.
If we don't take this opportunity to own social media
right now, we will always be customers to our own
creations and that can't go on. So once again, go
(50:19):
to start Engine dot com slash fanbase and invest today.
We must own the platforms where our voices live, our
stories matter, and where our culture drives the world.
Speaker 1 (50:29):
Thank you.
Host
Roland Martin
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