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February 4, 2025 22 mins

With the stroke of a pen, the twice-impeached, criminally convicted felon-in-chief dismantled affirmative action in federal contracting. 

On Tuesday, the Office of Personnel Management issued a memo instructing agencies to place Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion office staff on paid leave and all public DEI-focused web pages must be taken down by 5p EST today.  Eventually, these employees are expected to be laid off. 

This executive order on affirmative action revokes a directive issued by President Lyndon Johnson and limits DEI programs for federal contractors and grant recipients. 

Roland Martin spoke with Damon Hewitt, President and Executive Director of the Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights Under Law and Ron Busby Sr., President and CEO of the U.S. Black Chambers, Incorporated about how this decision will impact Black contractors.

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
With the stroke of a pen, the twice in peace,
criminally convicted Fellow and the achieved Donald Trump as dismantled
Affirmative Action and federal contracting. On Tuesday, the Office of
Personnel Management issued a memo instructing agencies to place Diversity,
Equity and Inclusion Office staff on paid leave and all
public DEI focused web pages must be taken down by
five pm Eastern today. These employees are expected to be

(00:22):
laid off. Some have already been laid off. This executive
order Infirmative Action revokes a directive issue by President Lyndon
Johnson that dealt with the issue of discrimination in federal contracting.
Joined US right now as Damian Hewitt, President and Executive
Director for the Law's Committee for Civil Rights under Law.
Don't ask me why he's wearing a purple tie in
in Alpha plus Ron Busby Senior, of course, President CEO

(00:45):
of the US Black Chambers. In't no surprise he got
a little red in his titles. He's a lit kappa.
All right, Let's get it right to it, David. I
will start with you first off. Out of look, we
know these guys have been targeting DEI, but going after
the Linden Bank Johnson executive orders a whole different thing
because that dealt specifically saying you can't discriminate in the

(01:07):
hiring of folks when you're getting federal contract That's a
whole different conversation.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
Well, look, we always knew Roland that they were going
not just after issues, They're going after people and also
going after the money. That's exactly what this is really about,
the same reason why they went after federal contracting programs
after the students are fair Missions case, the higher aired
affirmative action case, and so this is really troubling. You know,

(01:33):
the message being sent here and the implications of this
recision is that federal contractors no longer have to take,
it seems undertake affirmative duties to root out discrimination in
their own workplaces and their processes. This is essentially an
invitation to discrimination and the message that it's open season.

Speaker 3 (01:53):
On black workers.

Speaker 2 (01:54):
And you know, look, federal contractors represent one fifth of
the entire US workforce, So this has massive implications for
every day working black people.

Speaker 1 (02:04):
And unless people are clear, which people don't seem to understand,
Republicans used to support the civil rights laws, but when
Barry Goldwater's book, The Conscious of a Conservative came out
that flipped it, and then they opposed the Civil Rights Act.
You've had conservatives and Republicans who have been saying that
a person should be allowed to discriminate, and so that's

(02:27):
really what this is about. They do not want to
be held to the laws, the Civil Rights Statue saying
you cannot discriminate in the hiring. What they're saying is,
we want to be able to hire anybody we want to,
and this is a burden telling us that we can't,
that we can't discriminate against somebody black or Latino or Asian,

(02:48):
or somebody who's a woman.

Speaker 4 (02:50):
That's what this is really all about.

Speaker 2 (02:53):
Yeah, you know, we're going to enter a period as
follow as number one, We're going to remind folks of
the facts on the ground, but also the law, because
no matter what Trump says in an executive order, that
doesn't change Title seven, that's the law of employment discrimination.
That law was not changed by a Supreme Court decision.
That law has remained the same for a very long time.
And so these employers have affirmative obligations with this EO

(03:17):
from nineteen sixty five, the year after the civil right
Zack did was it added a layer of protection. It
added a layer of affirmative duty for federal contractors to
make sure that they will complying with Title seven. So
we're probably going to end to a period whether this
law will being contest a period of people talk about
rapid evolution. This could be rapid devolution of workplace culture

(03:40):
of open season on black workers and brown workers.

Speaker 3 (03:43):
And so we're going to have to.

Speaker 2 (03:44):
Meet these people in the course of public opinion, but
also in the courts of law.

Speaker 4 (03:48):
Ron, I want to go to you when.

Speaker 1 (03:53):
When that idiot Trump was their last time you and
I talked, and they stopped collecting racial data correct.

Speaker 3 (04:03):
Correct.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
So the problem is we we we we didn't know
what what was happening.

Speaker 4 (04:10):
We didn't know what contracting was happening.

Speaker 1 (04:12):
We didn't know who wasn't getting We didn't know if
it was an increase or decrease.

Speaker 2 (04:16):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (04:17):
And that had so that so that they stopped collecting
racial data.

Speaker 4 (04:20):
Across the board correct correct.

Speaker 1 (04:22):
So what it came to then what they did was
they started bundling contracts. Instead of typically what happens on
the Democrats, they unbundled the only Republican who actually understood
the unbundling of contracts was actually George W. Bush Uh
And so typically Republicans, they bund up, they bundled them back.
And so really what we're seeing here with the attacks

(04:43):
on when we see these executive orders, couple that with
last year those federal judges ruling m B M B
D A and also the A program.

Speaker 4 (04:53):
What this means and this.

Speaker 1 (04:55):
Is why I kept warning people doing the campaign even now,
what they're doing is this, this is going to have
a direct impact on black businesses getting contracts.

Speaker 4 (05:06):
Correct.

Speaker 3 (05:07):
People don't understand that.

Speaker 5 (05:09):
And as we had been talking, and I know you
have been saying, enrollin voting and elections have consequences, and
we had been saying for years, and we saw it.
Doing his first term he tried to come out with
the ban on Muslims. He got caught up in the process,
George Floyd, and it took his attention away from his

(05:29):
original plans. This time, he came out the gate, making
it very clear that he was concerned about his supporters,
about his billionaire friends and brillion their friends, and making
sure that the programs and the conversations that he talked
about during his first term were going to be implemented
immediately upon his inauguration.

Speaker 3 (05:53):
And we have seen that happen already.

Speaker 1 (05:56):
And again I want to read it with his and
this is for all of the simple Simon negros who
won social media, who were doing radio television interviews talking
about Trump is going to be putting money in our
pockets and how all these things are going to be
going down. What they need to understand is that what
they are doing is they're going after the money. And

(06:20):
then when they target Walmart, when they target McDonald's, when
they target corporate America, they're not just saying.

Speaker 4 (06:28):
Oh, let's get rid of these DEI offices.

Speaker 1 (06:30):
They're going after supply diversity or with John Rogers with
aero Kaplo calls business diversity. And so what we are
going to see and black people need to wake up
over the next one two, three, four years, we're going
to see a material decrease in billions of dollars flowing

(06:52):
to black owned businesses who largely employ black people, who
fund black who fund HBCUs and black interest. And so
that is going to be the direct impact of what
Trump and the Republicans are currently doing.

Speaker 3 (07:08):
Let me make it more clear.

Speaker 5 (07:11):
During Obama's first term in office, the goal for minority
spend was roughly five percent. He surpassed that and hit
seven percent. His second term in office, the goal was
then seven percent. He surpassed that goal and hit nine percent.
If you heard when President Biden got in office, the

(07:33):
goal was to go from eleven percent to fifteen percent.

Speaker 3 (07:37):
That scared the nation.

Speaker 5 (07:40):
What we found out was, as you've been discussing the
disaggregation of the numbers, because they will tell you it's
eleven percent, nine percent, five percent, but as you have
just mentioned, we never knew what that.

Speaker 3 (07:52):
Meant to the black community.

Speaker 5 (07:54):
And so during this last administration under President Biden, we
said we were interested in three things. Intentionality, let us
know what you were doing for the black community.

Speaker 3 (08:05):
We wanted transparency.

Speaker 5 (08:06):
Wanted to know what percentagement for black businesses.

Speaker 3 (08:10):
And then we wanted accountability.

Speaker 5 (08:12):
We wanted to know, Okay, if they're not hitting the numbers,
how can we motivate them and what can we do
to improve the conditions for black owned businesses. And so
the reason why NBBA Minority Business Development Agency was the
first place to go under attack is because while we
were there, the goal was to get the increase from

(08:33):
black businesses from one point five percent of the entire
culture's country spend to three percent. I had black people
fighting back on us saying, well why three percent, why
not thirteen percent? Understand this, of the nine hundred and
sixty billion dollars that the country spends every year, six

(08:55):
hundred and forty billion dollars is set aside for products
and services at all countries.

Speaker 3 (08:59):
All of us can apply compete for of that.

Speaker 1 (09:03):
So all all, all the nine hid and sixty million,
that's what the federal government spends.

Speaker 3 (09:08):
That's what the federal gover goal had.

Speaker 5 (09:10):
Six hundred and forty billion is really available because the
other portion is for the military. So of that six
hundred and forty billion dollars, eleven percent of that goes
towards minority farms. But I want your audience to understand
who is included in that minority. The second thing I
want them to understand is it did not come out

(09:31):
easily in reference to the disaggregation of the numbers. It
was linked out, and so once it was linked out,
then the federal government had to address it. And what
we found is that of the eleven percent, the Asian
community received one point eight percent of.

Speaker 3 (09:48):
The minority spin.

Speaker 5 (09:50):
They had the fewest number of businesses registered to do
business with the federal government, but that's fine, they had
large contracts. The Hispanic communities received one point seven to
one percent of the minority spin. Black business community had
the largest number of businesses that were registered and certified
to do business with the federal government. We received one

(10:14):
point five percent, the least of all of.

Speaker 3 (10:17):
The ethnic communities.

Speaker 5 (10:18):
And so you ask yourself, well, where is the spin going?
White women, not women. White women received seventy eight percent
of all of the minority spin.

Speaker 3 (10:29):
So people are saying, well, Ron.

Speaker 5 (10:31):
What are you guys doing to fight back on these
attacks on d and I And I asked myself, well,
where are white women because they have the biggest law
that's available to them, whereas we have the biggest opportunity
to gain in this conversation, and so the US Black Chamber,
along with other business organizations, are going to continue to

(10:51):
fight to make sure that we have our share of
the wealth of this country.

Speaker 1 (10:57):
Now again, well go back to damon the one point
five percent. But also I want to speak in terms
of actually real numbers.

Speaker 3 (11:05):
That number represents about ten billion.

Speaker 1 (11:07):
Dollars and that and that ten billion dollars is the
most we've ever gotten.

Speaker 5 (11:12):
The most we've ever received. And to be honest, it
was one point five. Then in twenty twenty one it
went to one five to five, then twenty twenty two
it has now gone to one point sixty one. So
we under Biden administration have improved our conditions, We've improved
to spend.

Speaker 3 (11:30):
We've improved our share.

Speaker 5 (11:32):
Now we cannot turn back and go back to where
we were before.

Speaker 4 (11:35):
Yeah and so and so damn.

Speaker 1 (11:37):
This is the thing that I think the people have
to understand when we talk about the battle over civil rights,
that is a direct relationship to the battle over silver rights.
And that's what doctor King understood. It was called the
March on Washington for jobs and freedom. That was economics,

(11:59):
he said in that speech, of course, which the goofy
pastor on Monday did not mention when he talked about
America giving black folks a check stamp insufficient funds, and
he always talked about we came here to get that check.

Speaker 4 (12:13):
What people need to recognize is.

Speaker 1 (12:16):
That the fight over these civil rights laws is direct
because the Conservatives, by targeting affirmative action in colleges impacts
black wealth because we know a black college graduate makes
more than a black person when a high school diploma,
but a white man with a high school diploma makes

(12:36):
more than a black college graduate. When they're targeting these,
when they're targeting the law schools, now they're targeting, you know,
in terms of affirmative action for a medical school.

Speaker 4 (12:47):
Then they are.

Speaker 1 (12:48):
Attacking a program in Minnesota to increase the number of
black teachers, to increase the number of black doctors.

Speaker 4 (12:54):
When they attack.

Speaker 1 (12:55):
These programs, they are attacking the ability of black people
to make high five figure, six figure jobs and earn
seven figure jobs.

Speaker 4 (13:05):
This is a money battle, damon it is.

Speaker 2 (13:09):
You know, doctor King recognized that we could have laws
that allow you to eat at lunch counter in a
non segregated environment. But if you can't afford to buy
lunch and by the meal, then what are we doing here?

Speaker 4 (13:21):
Right?

Speaker 2 (13:22):
So, just to paraphrase doctor King, so these folks understand this,
They are trying to take any means of opportunity and
cut it off at the knees. And frankly, if you
read this executive order from Trump labels them as illegal
labels entirely lawful methods as illegal, even things that aren't
about race conscious selections. This is not talking about set

(13:44):
asides or quotas or anything of that sort, and that
those things have their place, But this is all about
entirely race neutral methods of training, of education, within workplaces,
among contracts. And also, let's call it insurance to ensure
that folks on being discriminated against. They're calling the efforts

(14:06):
to stop discrimination discrimination in and up itself. So it's
all about limiting economic opportunity from every avenue of American life.

Speaker 4 (14:16):
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (14:17):
Damian hewittt Ron Buzzby, I appreciate both of y'all joining
us on the show. We're going to have this conversation,
trust be have a lot more over the next four years.

Speaker 3 (14:26):
Thanks for having us.

Speaker 4 (14:28):
We'll be here bringing my panel right now.

Speaker 1 (14:29):
Rebecca Corruther's vice president, Fair Election Center out of DC,
Jade Matthis Esquire with Jade Matthis Law Firm out of DC,
and Political Says social Media political Activists out of Nightdale,
North Carolina.

Speaker 4 (14:40):
Glad they have all three of you here. Rebecca, I'll
start with you.

Speaker 1 (14:44):
I keep saying that if you go down two blocks
from here, there's only one federal agency that shares along
with the White House, and that is the Treasury Department.
White House's power, Treasure Department is money, power and money.
If you ain't having a money conversation, not having an
American conversation. And what people need to underst which is
why I wrote this book White Fear, how the browning

(15:04):
of Americas making white folks lose their minds. This is
a money conversation. And what these right wing MAGA people
are pissed off about. They do not want to see
black people continuing to advance, and so they want to
shut down all of these programs that that have aided
African Americans in being able to generate health.

Speaker 6 (15:27):
You know what, Roland, I spent a lot of time
talking about how I grew up in the Midwest, Nebraska specifically,
and one of the things I really learned about racism
in this country, especially when my family would go to
the South to visit relatives, is in the South, white
people you really don't care about what you have as
long as.

Speaker 3 (15:44):
You don't live next door to them.

Speaker 6 (15:45):
If you live down the street, that's fine, you can
have whatever you want.

Speaker 3 (15:48):
But up north and.

Speaker 6 (15:49):
Also in the Midwest, they don't care if you live
next door to them. They don't care if you live
across the street, but you better not be doing better
than what they are. And so what's interesting with watching
this new administration, the second term of President Trump, Like
you said, this is purely a money grab because because
quite frankly, ten billion dollars in a near one trillion

(16:13):
dollar budget really isn't that much money. When we talked
about the one point five percent that black folks as
a racial minority gets in these different set asides to
make sure there's a diverse supply chain within the federal government,
and like you talked about that seventy eight percent number,
seventy eight percent of that like six hundred and sixty
billion dollars is going to white women. So in the

(16:35):
grand scheme of things, ten billion dollars isn't that much
for our community. It's not that much across the United States,
quite frankly. But the fact that we are even getting
that for some of these people, that's the problem because
they feel like we should not be getting anything.

Speaker 4 (16:50):
I mean, is was crazy.

Speaker 1 (16:51):
Jade, the white woman in Tennessee that sued the eight
A program, here's what was crazy. She was a part
of a program for women. That's how she was able
to get contracts. She then sues the AA program saying, oh,
I can't participate in that, and she never even applied.

(17:13):
So the white woman was mad at the program for minorities,
and she was mad it didn't include her, but she
had no problem with the program that was for women,
for white women like her. And this is what we
are dealing with. These white folks talk about, oh no,
it needs to be a meritocracy, it needs to be
Oh no, we shouldn't have double standards. But they got

(17:36):
no problem when we know white folks are getting the
hook up for their whiteness.

Speaker 7 (17:41):
Yes, And speaking of hookup, that is one word Trump
never uses, or we don't hear often uses nepotism. Right,
They talk about everything else, and we wanted to be
equal here and gender rights and all of this other,
you know, but nepotism was the one key word that
he always leaves out, which she was.

Speaker 3 (17:57):
The beneficiary of.

Speaker 7 (17:58):
Right, and feel like what Trump is saying about DEI
is that he's implying that it's discriminatory, But it's only
discriminatory when whites Asians, Americans, Asian Americans, and white's Asian
Americans and white women when they don't get their way

(18:19):
or when they don't get the positions that they want,
that's when it's discriminatory. I think that's the part that
he's implying and willingly not saying.

Speaker 4 (18:28):
No, he's not implying, they're actually saying it. That's what
they're doing.

Speaker 1 (18:32):
Political says, go ahead, you are mute, you are met there,
you go go ahead, Okay.

Speaker 8 (18:44):
One thing I don't think they understand, especially white women
veteran white men, is how they DEI impacts them in
a good way when it comes to Obama. Along with
the LBJ executive order that Trump took away, Obama added
the sex gender along with gender.

Speaker 3 (19:05):
Identity, I think.

Speaker 8 (19:07):
But that's going to affect white women as well as
black women. So I think that's something we need to
keep in mind, and I hope. I don't know why
the Democrats, especially here in the South, can't drill that
into white working people, white working women people. But I
think if we can do that, then we can get
somewhere with some votes.

Speaker 1 (19:25):
Well, but then that's going to require people to have
a conversation they frankly are unwilling.

Speaker 3 (19:30):
To scare to have.

Speaker 4 (19:31):
Of course, what the work that we do.

Speaker 1 (19:32):
Joan I bring a funk fan club. You heard we
just talked about there, Folks, I can't reiterate this enough.
Listen to me, clearly, I cannot reiterate this enough. When
you've got technology companies running scared, when you've got legacy
media not doing their job, when you've got black on
media that is disintegrated. Now is more than ever for

(19:55):
us to have independent media that cares about the truth,
that it is willing to say what needs to be said.
So when you support Roland mart Unfiltered this show, when
you support the Blackstar Network, you're not just supporting me,
You're supporting the other shows. Our goal is to add
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(20:17):
want more weekly and daily shows because we want to
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be able to save what is necessary where other people
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Speaker 4 (20:37):
They're not even supporting us anyway.

Speaker 1 (20:39):
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And unlike some of these other so called progressives and

(21:00):
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(21:21):
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