August 1, 2025 • 38 mins
Ron discusses the life of wrestling superstar Hulk Hogan.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Ron Barr, and this is today's edition of
Ron Barr's Sports Byline USA podcast on the eight Side Network.
In our continuing series We Remember, We Remember iconic professional
wrestler Hawk Hogan, who passed away recently. His size, talent,
and personality left a permanent effect on the entertainment sport
of wrestling. Hawkmania launched pro wrestling into the entertainment mainstream
(00:25):
and a multi billion dollar business. Hogan was widely regarded
as one of the greatest and globally most recognized wrestling
stars of all time. He won multiple world championships and
most notably being a six time WWE World Champion. Dave
Meltzer covered Hogan's career extensively with his Wrestling Observer Live magazine.
(00:46):
So I asked Meltzer, how significant was the Hulk to wrestling?
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Well, you know, I mean, wrestling changed in nineteen eighty four,
and that change coincided with Hulk Hogan being the face
of pro wrestling. He took what was a popular regional
business and put it on kind of a more mainstream map.
(01:11):
You know. He was the star when wrestling was on
Saturday night's main event, which in many ways was was
a major peak in the history of pro wrestling. And
you know there were when Vince McMahon, you know, vincient
Man is the one who made the move, and he
made the move with Hull Cogan as his top star.
There were a couple of other guys. If there was
(01:33):
no Haul Cogan he could have gone with. But it's
totally unrealistic to believe that any of those guys in
that situation could have made wrestling as popular as Hogan did.
He was the right guy at the right time. There's
there's there was nobody else at that time and uh
maybe you know, I mean, I mean, you know, for
(01:56):
for what, for what the time was, there was nobody
else and uh and he delivered as well as you know,
you could say just about anyone in history and the role.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
So in other words, timing was the key there. What
was it about him that allowed him to take advantage
of that timing?
Speaker 2 (02:11):
It was the right look for the period. You know,
Hogan got got through on the look. People were looking
for the big body, the blond you know, the big,
blonde haired guy. I mean people thought, I mean he
was you know, wrestling is always about larger than life.
People thought this guy was you know, six eight three
twenty and he's not quite that big, but he was
huge compared to the other wrestlers in that period. And
(02:34):
and that's what people wanted. They wanted the big surfer guy,
you know, I mean and and and they wanted the
kid's cartoon hero. You know how he had his own
cartoon show that was on in the mornings, and they
merchandised him like crazy. I mean for the eighties, you know,
for that period, that's what they wanted. In the late nineties,
when wrestling had its second big boom, they wanted something else.
(02:54):
And that's where you know Steve Austin, who was very
who was the opposite of Hogan. You know, they didn't
want another Hogan. They wanted something opposite to Hogan. And
Hogan sort of figured that out too because he made
his heel turn and that was you know, he was
a key part of the second boom period with WCW.
And you know when he had his villain run from uh,
(03:15):
I guess it would be nineteen ninety six to about
nineteen ninety nine.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
The other thing that I always thought was interesting because
you were the one that coined wrestling entertainment. He was
a guy that always understood that he understood the business
side as well as the entertainment side. Did he not well?
Speaker 2 (03:30):
I mean, business wise, I think that Hogan had a
better grasp than ninety nine point nine per some of
the wrestlers do of his own character and what he
needed to do when you know, you know, when he
was getting burned out, he knew to leave.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
Too.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Many guys in wrestling were insecure and stayed out there
and burned themselves out with the audience. When Hogan saw
he was burning himself out with the audience, he went
home for a while. When Hogan saw that the people
were booing him, he went with it, you know, I mean,
and it wasn't I'm sure it wasn't an easy move
after all those years as the most popular guy in
wrestling to admit that the run was over and you
had to switch. But he did, and you know, put
(04:06):
himself in a good position and led to a second
big period. But yeah, I think that as a businessman,
you know, Hogan, Hogan's known what to do. He's played
the game very smartly.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
The relationship between Vince McMahon and Hawk Hogan, did they
kind of need each other in a sense, did Hogan
come along at the right time for Vince and vice versa.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
I think in eighty four they needed each other. Yeah,
I mean, Hogan would have been the biggest star in
wrestling if there was no Vince McMahon, just because he
had the charisma and the right lesson. He was the
right guy. He was the right guy at the time.
It was what the fans wanted. They wanted the big
muscle guy. Now, as far as Vince, I don't think
Vince would have been as successful nationally if he had
(04:50):
gone with you know, whomever else. I mean, there was
really no great fit for that role in nineteen eighty four.
You had Rick Flair, but Vince wanted a bigger guy.
You know, Rick Flayer is the better performer, but Vince
wanted a bigger guy. Kerry Van Eric would have self
destructed in that role. He would have been the other
and Jimmy Snook had already self destructed by that point,
and so so Hogan was really the only guy I
(05:14):
think at that time who could have done what he did.
You know, they both years later did not need each
other because they both became so big from that period.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
The other thing to day that I think was really
key for both Vince McMahon and Hawk Hogan was how
television developed and how they developed the entertainment presentation of wrestling.
Am I correct in that observation that the timing there
was also very important?
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Well, I mean as far as I think that the
key was the development of pay per view. They got
in on the ground floor of pay per view, and Hogan,
you know, in the early years of pay per view
was the biggest pay per view attraction there was. I
mean for years, I mean for overten I would say,
for you know, eight to ten years, and you know,
the changes to cable, the change to may you know,
(06:01):
you know, yeah, you know, to change in the TV
industry of course were a big part of the changes
in wrestling. When when cable TV came in, the bottom
line was is that there was going to be one
or two survivors and the old network of regional companies
was was going to go down and whoever had the
biggest stars was was going to survive the fight. So
(06:21):
you know, that was you know, yeah, that was a
big part of it. You know, as far as like
it was the first time since you know, wrestling lost
network television in the early fifties that there was going
to be nation, you know, a national uh, you know,
the companies were going to go national, and Hogan was
the biggest pawn at the time because he was the
one with the most potential to be to be the
guy to lead a company.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
One of the things that I find fascinating about him,
and I think it's one of the things that makes
him one of the stars of wrestling if you look
over the generations in the decades, is that he lasted
so long. Whether he was a heel or whether he
was a hero, he's still somebody that people if you
said professional wrestling, give me one name, they probably, depending
upon the age of the person, would give you a
(07:03):
Hulk Hogan is a name, would they not?
Speaker 2 (07:05):
You know? I mean, you know, now you've got Steve Austin,
But Steve Austin is not as big with a Maine.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
And he hasn't been there as long either.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeh. I mean, I mean, you know,
you in Flair not as big with the mains, right,
although you know, Hogan and Flair both, you know, both
of them really you know, had incredible longevity. And I
think that that was because in the eighties when the
thing really hit, they were the two big stars. And
again with in Hogan's standpoint, and I think that in
this case, you wuld worry was so much better than Flair,
(07:32):
is that Hogan knew. Like one of the reasons for
Hogan's longevity is because he didn't overstay as welcome. When
the time came and there were times where Hogan was
going to burn out, where the audience was getting tired
of him, Hogan went home. He went home for a year,
and by the you know, likely he's coming back. He
has not been on national television in wrestling since June
of nineteen, since June of two thousand and three, So
(07:54):
now when he's coming to WrestleMania, the people are are
you know, it's back to the nostalgia of wanting to
see Hulk Cogan. I mean, if he'd been on TV
for five six straight years, it really wouldn't be as
big of a deal. And that's where, like I said,
that's one of the reasons for his longevity is knowing
when to go home and not overexposing himself.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
What will be his trademark in wrestling when people look
back his legacy, I guess is what I'm asking now
he was the.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
One who won the war for you know, for wor
Wrestling Federation. I mean if he had gone with if
he had been with Jim Crockett, or if he had
stayed with verne Gania the wrestling war in nineteen eighty
four and who won in the end, it could have
been very different. The history of wrestling. The history of
wrestling would have been very different for sure if he
(08:44):
had chosen a different company to stay with. And I
don't know that the winner would have necessarily been different,
but could have been different. But the fight would have
been much harder and the fight would have been much
longer if Hogan was on another side.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
You had a best selling wrestling book called Tributes, and
I'm just wondering if down the road, if you do
a follow up to that. Obviously you would put him
in there, But where does he kind of rank in
the pantheon of all the great wrestlers? Not so much
from a technique standpoint, Dave, but just overall personality wise
and technique.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
That's hard to say because there's so many guys in there.
You know, everyone in their area, you know what I mean? Yeah,
I mean as far as most important in history. You
could make a great case that he was the most
important in history. I wouldn't. I would say on a
worldwide basis, I would say that there were I think
there were guys in their in their countries that were
bigger than Hogan in the United States, and I go
(09:38):
out in question that there were a couple, But Hogan
also was far more, far bigger worldwide. You know, Hogan.
You know what people don't know is Hogan was a
huge deal in Japan before he ever hit it big
in the United States. He started, he was big in
Japan in nineteen eighty, he hit it big in the
Midwest in nineteen eighty one eighty two, and he hit
it big in the rest of the country in nineteen
(09:58):
eighty four. So I mean it was already when Vincent
Mann got him, he was already. You know, a lot
of people don't know this. A lot of people think
Vincent Man made Hulk Cogan. Hulk Hogan was already a
proven commodity and he was the biggest draw in wrestling
before Vince McMahon ever got him back. Actually, his father
had Hulk Hogan earlier in his career when he was
you know, but before Hogan became a big deal elsewhere.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Hawk Hogan became the face of professional wrestling as Vince
McMahon expanded the WWF into mainstream pop culture through the
Rock and Wrestling Connection on MTV. This period saw large
increases in viewing attendance, television ratings, and pay per view buys.
Hogan was the main attraction at the first WrestleMania held
(10:39):
back in nineteen eighty five. When We Come Back, Hawk
Hogan talks about his life, career, and legacy as we
continue on Sports Bile.
Speaker 5 (10:51):
Close.
Speaker 6 (10:51):
Friends and Family, Listen up because this one's for you
right now. You can take an extra twenty percent off
during the Friends and Family Sale eve on summer must
haves for your home, comfy everyday outfits for your family,
smart favorites for back to school, and so much more. Yep,
it's your time to see shop Cole's Friends and Family
(11:12):
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apply Sea Store Orcoals dot Com for details.
Speaker 7 (11:20):
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the Progressive Home and Auto Bundle, you get twenty four
seven protection, so you're covered no matter where the day
takes you.
Speaker 5 (11:27):
Even I added too much water to the pizza do day?
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Yep.
Speaker 5 (11:29):
How about getting a call from my daughter to pick
her up the airport because her boyfriend is unreliable?
Speaker 7 (11:33):
Day, especially that day.
Speaker 5 (11:35):
What about finding out that one of my pipes suddenly
burst in my basement?
Speaker 4 (11:38):
Day?
Speaker 7 (11:38):
Progressive has every day covered twenty four to seven with
the Homan Auto bundle.
Speaker 5 (11:41):
Also you have a lot of bad days. Oh no,
that was all the same day.
Speaker 7 (11:46):
At least you're covered with Progressive, Progresive, casually insurance company
affliates and other in shurists not avaiable in all states.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
You're listening to Ron Barr's Sports Byline USA podcast Hawk.
Hogan joins us here on Sports Byline Hawk. Of course,
you know from his outstanding work wrestling, and he is
being inducted into the Hall of Fame as a wrestler there,
and what a cast he's going in with. He's got
Roddy Rally, Piper, Nikolai Volkoff, Jimmy Hart, Bob Orton, Junior,
(12:11):
Paul Orndorf, and the Iron Cheek. What is it that
all of you have in common as you think about
at Hawk, Oh.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
Well, probably that's probably the ugliest group of wrestling I've ever,
That's probably the number one thing I'd have to pick
out of that the Motley Crue group there. But the
other thing would be that we were around during the
heyday of wrestling during the eighties, when you know, there
wasn't any other agendas except just doing the best form
(12:39):
of art, and wrestling is an art form, the best
form of art we could do with telling a story,
creating emotions, and basically beating the holy hell out of
each other.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
When you go back and think about your contribution to wrestling,
what is it that you're most happy about.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
Probably the fact that when I got into business, the
guys were, you know, probably making twenty to twenty five
dollars a night. And then it wasn't over a long
period of years, but it was, you know, just a
couple of years after I get into business, all of
a sudden, you know, the character, the licensing and the
merchandising changed the paydays to situations where guys were making
(13:19):
millions of dollars a year.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
And I think the other thing that's important is is
that wrestling really kind of exploded. It became the end thing,
and it probably still is to someday, but for different
reasons maybe, Well, what do you think is the secret
to the success of wrestling over the long period of time.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
Well, I mean, it's you know, intertwined in our whole
American democracy and lifestyle, such as Chevrolet, McDonald's and the
Purple Mountains. Majesty. Wrestling is an American you know, heritage.
It's just embroidered in our whole society, and it's been
around since day one, and you know, now it's transcend
into internationally being accepted the American style of wrestling, and
(13:59):
it's it's some thing that basically is part of our culture.
And so it's it's really not going to go away
no matter how many times it changes or speeds up
or slows down. It's here to stay.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Is it?
Speaker 3 (14:09):
A little bit like NASCAR racing? When I talked to
Jeff Gordon and the other drivers, one of the things
they tell me is that the car is a part
of the culture of America. And I really sensed that
off of what you just said, Hawk, that the same
thing can be said about wrestling.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
Well, they can, you know, call it entertainment all they want,
and they could, you know, bring the girls to the forefront,
and they could go ahead and through the soaproper storylines backstage.
But basically none of this would happen if they didn't
have the nucleus of wrestling, all of the car and NASCAR.
You know, you can spin it in any way you want,
but basically to make this thing work, you have to
(14:43):
have a foundation, and that is the good guy versus
five guy, good versus evil. You know, the the basic
foundation of NASCAR is the car. The foundation of wrestling
is the basic wrestling match. So it's a lot, a lot,
a lot of the same.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
When you decided to go down this path, then you're life,
what was it? What was it that hooked you on this?
Why this direction rather than something else in life?
Speaker 4 (15:06):
Well, I mean I was at the time going to
the University of South Florida and playing in a rock
and roll band, putting myself through college. I was going
to have a huge career, you know, as some type
of financial advisor loan officer, because I was majoring in
finance and management at the time, and I was just
this huge wrestling fan. And during the last couple of
(15:27):
years of going to the University of South Florida, I
started going to the matches on Wednesday night in Tampa,
and one thing led to another where I finally get
to meet the wrestlers, and this huge mistique that if
you talk to them they'd rip your eyeballs out kind
of like went away once I get to know them.
And the truth was, back in the late sixties, it
was a very barbaric mentality where if you said, oh
(15:49):
my gosh, wrestling's not real, or that was a nice
show instead of a nice wrestling match, they would definitely
punch you in the mouth. Because back then it was
a whole different time. You could get in a fight
and get out of jail for fifteen dollars and there
were no lawsuits and nobody ended a fistfight with a gunshot.
I mean, times were different back then, So you can
laugh about it now, but back then, you didn't get
(16:10):
a pair of boots from Santa and get sent to
wrestling school by your parents. Back then, you had to
walk in the locker room with five or six guys
and actually take somebody's job away from them or take
the food out of their family's mouth to get in
this business.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
What about the personality aspect of it, Because you seem
to gravitate very naturally into the wrestling personality. It wasn't
just technique. It was that you had to have a personality.
How long did it take you hawk to really develop that?
Speaker 4 (16:38):
Well, you know, these personalities in wrestling, they can be
given to you by the promoter. Nowadays, they can be
thought up by a creative team, or they could be
basically expounded upon an individual's heritage, culture or his natural persona.
And you know, back in the day when I started,
there were no crews or no teams of scriptwriters, and
there was no one there to tell you, well, I
(17:00):
want you to be an Indian and I want you
to be a soldier and go to the ring with
an army helmet. I know that stuff was there. I basically,
you know, was just one of the first wrestlers that
actually lifted weights on a consistent basis. I was one
of the first wrestlers that came from you know, either
Florida or California at the time, and basically was worshiping
(17:20):
the sun. And I was one of those guys that
you know, basically taught like Muhammad Ali, you know. And
I think that whole combination kind of formed my personality
and it was accepted. It was just a real easy, fastball,
right down the middle of what this American culture was
all about. Paul Coogan's from California. He's blond here, he's tan,
(17:42):
and he trains and he says to prayers and eats
his vitamins, and it was perfect for the early eighties.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
Yeah, I know in the beginning, Sterling Golden was that
the name that you wrestled under.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
I was in Atlanta for a short while. It was
probably the fifth or sixth time I had quit wrestling,
and I think there was a promoter there named Jim Barnett,
and he was he was a different type of character,
and he used to call me. I had long blonde
hair at the time and I wasn't going ballheaded them
and he would call me Sterling Golden and he's a
(18:13):
sterling mind blind, lunking. And so I was Stirling Golding
for about six months and then I shook that monkey
off my back.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
You know, Hawk, When I think about you, the first
time I saw you, what I was impressed with was
your persona. And as I've talked to you over the years,
and this is I think the second or third time
we've ever interviewed I've ever interviewed you I've always come
away with the with the intelligence of you as well,
How does that go hand in hand with being a
successful wrestler. Does it work all the time that way
(18:44):
or were you the exception rather than the rule.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
Well, it's probably the first guy to ever just look
beyond the you know, high school wrestling match or the
local armory wrestling match, or the small you know, five
or six thousand, then your wrestling match and the six
pack of beer that goes along with it, and the
key to the holiday inn.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
You know.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
I think I was in it and you know saw that,
you know, there was this huge persona of characters and
just this whole pool of attitudes and people that had
different you know, cultures and and different ways of expressing themselves.
And I said, oh, my gosh, you know, there's and
I was just thinking even before I met Vince McMahon,
(19:27):
I was you know, selling T shirts out of the
trunk of my car and basically always had a handle
on a way to you know, turn five dollars into
fifty dollars, you know, So it was I was kind
of like like the first one to you know, basically
think about selling merchandise. And then when I went to
work for Vince McMahon. I was basically the first one
ever to play any entrance music to the ring. So
(19:50):
I kind of like, you know, got everybody. I opened
the door for everybody, and they sure plowed through it,
that's for sure.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
How did the odd personalities of wrestling influence your development
of a personnel and wrestling?
Speaker 4 (20:02):
Well, I mean I really didn't, you know, gear myself
off other guys. I didn't bounce off anybody else and
go the opposite direction. I kind of like had a
few favorite wrestlers, and there were certain things I'd pick
up on that they would do, but they wouldn't drive
the point home, you know. And there were certain wrestlers
that would say certain things, but they wouldn't make it
mean anything. And I just tried to pick out all
(20:24):
these good things that I could see in these characters
that were positive wrestlers, you know, like different guys, like
would say certain catchphrases of different guys would walk a
certain way of the ring, but they wouldn't deliver it,
you know, or they wouldn't execute it one hundred and
ten percent. So you know, if I turned aside was
in flex my arm and said I can pull the
bumper off a Cadillac Jack, I would say it and
(20:46):
just draw a bullet on the camera so that you
would remember that for the rest of your life. And
I kind of stole a little bit from a bunch
of good wrestlers and mixed it with my own personality,
and that's how I came up with the hull Coking character.
But some of the other guys, you know, they just
kind of, you know, go with a natural flow. Some
like Chief J. Strongbow. He was a Native American Indian,
so he just kind of went with what he was
and that works.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
We only have about a minute before we have to
break here. But I remember a conversation that the last
time we talked, and I asked you off the air
how long it took you to get out of bed,
and you said sometimes it took you twenty minutes.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
And I'm just.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Wondering about the physicality of the sport. How has you
developed over the years, how you handled that aspect of it.
Speaker 4 (21:25):
Well, I've got, you know, a knee replacement, and I've
got a hip replacement, and I guess both of my
hands have been numbed out for probably about twelve years.
And you know, with that old school mentality. You know,
I kept wrestling way beyond the alloted time I should
have wrestled. And you know, the new guys now, if
their little finger goes nun, they take six or seven
months off and have neck surgery. But I mean, now,
(21:47):
getting out of bed, it's an effort. I've discovered a
brand new anti inflammatory called arthroa tech that basically is
the heads and tails above biox. But you know, it
does take a while to get out of it because
I probably wrestled too many years and too long.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
Was it worth all of it. I've always talked to
athletes and not one has ever told me it wasn't.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
Well. Looking back now, it was such a great career
and such a long ride on top. I mean I saw,
you know, I can't even think that I saw. I saw,
you know, Madonna rise and fall a couple of times.
Michael Jackson had his highs and those as far as
being the main event guy. But I became the main
event guy, and I stayed on top for over twenty years.
And when I look around at my family and the
(22:28):
security they have, I don't look at the negatives. It's
just the cost of doing business that I get out
of bed a little slow, but the security this business
has given my family it made it well worth it.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
We'll continue remembering the life, career and legacy of Hawke
Hogan on Sports Close.
Speaker 6 (22:46):
Friends and Family. Listen up because this one's for you
right now. You can take an extra twenty percent off
during the Friends and Family Sale seeve on summer must
haves for your home, comfy everyday outfits for your family,
smart favorites for back to school, and so much more. Yep,
it's your time to see shop Cole's Friends and Family
(23:07):
Sale today. Selex Styles offerings July twenty seven. Some exclusions apply.
Sea Storecoles dot Com for details.
Speaker 7 (23:15):
Hi, it's me Flow here to tell you that with
the Progressive Home and Auto Bundle, you get twenty four
seven protection, so you're covered no matter where the day
takes you.
Speaker 5 (23:21):
Even I added too much water to the pizza do day?
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Yep?
Speaker 5 (23:24):
How about getting a call from my daughter to pick
her up at the airport because her boyfriend is unreliable?
Speaker 7 (23:28):
Day, especially that day.
Speaker 5 (23:29):
What about finding out that one of my pipes suddenly
burst in my basement?
Speaker 3 (23:32):
Day?
Speaker 7 (23:33):
Progressive has every day covered twenty four to seven with
a Homan auto bundle. Also, do you have a lot
of bad days?
Speaker 5 (23:38):
Oh no, that was all the same day.
Speaker 7 (23:40):
At least you're covered with progressive progressive Cakeshley Insurance compan
affiliates and other insurists not availble in all states.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
You're listening to Ron Barr's Sports Byline USA podcast. Hawk
Hogan was part of the early Golden Age of professional wrestling,
and his success extended outside the ring. He starred in
the wrestling movie No Holds Barred. During his career, all
wrestlers had their signature move Hawks was the punishing leg drop.
We talked about the various moves and techniques, how they
(24:08):
changed over the years.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
Well, I mean, you know, if you basically hit somebody
over the head with a steel chair. When I was wrestling,
the referee would either ring the bell or the wrestler
that you hit with the steel chair would be knocked
out and carried on a stretcher to the dressing room.
Now you know, they'll be a guy in the head
with a steel chair and by the time the guy
throws the chair down, the guy that was hit will
(24:31):
be standing up before the guy turns around. So the
whole mentality of the business has changed. A lot, I
mean the wrestling holes. The guys are still using a
lot of the wrestling holes, but everything is speeded up
because television moves so fast. There are more choices in
the universe as far as entertainment, a few that you
and I may have, or a few that Andre the
(24:51):
Giant and I could have. Like if I was have
an argument with Andrea on Monday, we probably wouldn't wrestle
till six months later. But nowadays, if you haven't Andrea
argument with Andrea the Giant on Monday, you'll wrestle Monday afternoon,
I mean. And so they have to move the business
along quicker because, like I said, there's so many choices
between reality TV, cable and satellite and stuff. So you know,
(25:14):
that's changed, and also that has changed the art form.
Instead of telling the story, painting the picture and creating emotions.
I think some of these guys have basically are like
a parrot, you know, they just repeat what they see
and they don't they almost wrestle like robots. Sometimes they
don't really wrestle, like The Rock or Stone Cold, Steve
(25:35):
Austin or some of these guys that still have a
grasp on what this business is all about.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
Do you believe that today's wrestler is over produced, then
that really they're a part of the production of wrestling
rather than being the technical the solid wrestlers that you
and others that you wrestled with in the beginning were.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
Yes and no. Yes on very very very few occasions. Know,
because there's only one major organization in town, and that's
the WWE. And with Vince mcmah running this company, he
knows this art form and he knows how to make
this thing work, and he's without a doubt, one of
the best in this business, wrestler, promoter, you name it,
(26:18):
he knows about it. And as far as overproduced, I think.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
With the whole world, you know.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
Wanting more, bigger, faster, higher, I think that some of
these wrestlers that you know come into their own quicker
and become stars overnight. I don't even think you can
say they're overproduced. I just think that Vince picks the
guys out that he knows can carry the football and
just pushes them as hard as he can.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
One of the things that I find very interesting hawk
is is that as I look at professional wrestling and
even the WWE as it's developed, Over the years, it
was around the people like the Hawl Cogan's, the Roddy
Rowdy Pipers, those type of wrestlers. But right now what
I'm seeing is the storyline seems to be more important
and the wrestlers themselves. It's a little bit like the NBA.
(27:02):
It used to be the Celtics against the Lakers, uh,
and then it became well, Magic Johnson against you know,
somebody else. It's always one on one rather than the
teams being the emphasis.
Speaker 4 (27:16):
You know what, I don't totally agree with you on
that because these wrestlers, you know, they they get a following,
they get a loyal situation, and with this just one company,
you know, basically setting a standard of excellence that no
one else can follow. You know, these wrestlers come into
their own and it's it's a personalized situation. I mean,
(27:37):
the kids, the loyal they know their wrestlers, they know
the feuds, and they really really kind of follow each individual.
They follow each group like if there's evolution with four
guys and a click. These wrestling fans are really dialed
in and really intelligent, and they really really, they really
really choose the wrestlers, the storylines and I just think
(27:57):
they really know the business now days, and I think
wrestling is a different animal than any other sport.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
I'll defer to you because you certainly know more about
it than I do, and it's nice to get that perspective.
Let me touch on Vince McMahon Junior for just a second.
You alluded to his having the natural touch for it.
Aside from the obvious influence that we've all seen on
him on wrestling, you being involved with him being involved
with wrestling give us a little bit more insight to
the man as well as the professional.
Speaker 4 (28:27):
I keep thinking he's like a terminator. If he yawns,
he goes to the bathroom, he probably changes his battery
in his forearm behind closed doors. I mean, this guy
is totally dedicated to this business, this art form, and
his whole family's involved in his wife, his son, and
his daughter and Vince he gives people opportunities and he
(28:49):
keeps a tight rein on things. He separates business from
personal issues, and that's one of the reasons in business.
You know, like everybody always says, don't you know, you
don't mix up business and friendship, And Vince has a
way of separating things, which keeps his business alive, which
keeps that big shield around him that protects his business.
(29:11):
And it's a family owned business and that has been for
several generations now. But Vince is a person. If he
tells you something, it will happen, you know, if you
don't step up to the plate, and if you don't,
you know, perform or do what you say you'll do.
Vince doesn't take things personally. He'll pull the carpet out
from under you if you're not a man of your words.
So that being said on a business level, On a
(29:35):
personal side, if you can get away from this business
and become friends with Vince, you know, you'll probably want
to hang around him more than anybody else, you know.
But if you cross him on a business or a
personal level, it's not great to be in that position.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
Did you learn a lot from him professionally, meaning on
a personal level off of your experiences with him, Then.
Speaker 4 (29:55):
On a personal and a business level, him and I
probably get along through two percent of the time and
totally disagree f two percent of the time because there's
always more than one right way to do things do things,
and so many people try to run tell him how
to run his business or tell him what to do.
I being one of those people. Sometimes I was right
on the money with his train of thought and sometimes
(30:18):
I wasn't. And since it's his game, his money, his business. Basically,
you know, Vince does his hit things his way and
they work. But you know, getting along with Vince, you know,
is something that I'd love to do because him as
a person. If I had to pick one person out
of this world that's helped me that I've learned from,
it would be him. And at the end of the day,
(30:40):
I don't know another person like him. And I've even
told people Vince is my hero. He is the guy
that lays out the standard and he raises the bar
to a certain standard of excellence that I had never
been around anybody that's done that.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
Well, it's nice to hear you say that, because it
says that you can separate the personal from the professional
and get the best out of both. He has injected
him himself haulk into the presentation the production of professional wrestling.
Now has that been a good move because I think
his personality was strong enough it almost added to the
whole presentation.
Speaker 4 (31:11):
Well, you know, you all all sometimes when the chips
are down you know, and you know all the men
are dead or all the men have defected and you're
in the albums. Sometimes you have to bet on yourself
to win the war. And there were certain highs and
lows in Vince's business where Vince had to plug himself
in and Vince bet on himself and he was the
greatest good guy. He was the greatest bad guy. And
(31:34):
it was out of necessity, you know. I know there
may have been a little ego there because Vince has
always wanted to get in the ring, But believe me,
it was a business decision when he climbed to that ring.
Knowing Vince away, I did, and it works. I wrestled
him at wrestle Mania in nineteen and so many of
the boys were telling me, oh my gosh, he hasn't
wrestled before, and he'll throw a punch at you and
break your nose, and you got to watch out for
(31:55):
him because he's dangerous in the ring. But I get
in the ring with Vince, you know, mind, if I
get nailed pretty hard, I don't mind giving one back.
It was a pleasure giving one back to them. But
you know, I'm really being in the ring with him
I'm all about making money, and brother, this guy has
what it takes to make money, and I will wrestle
him and I will love to kick his butt anytime
(32:15):
he wants to get in there.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
One of the things that I admire and respect about you, Hawk,
is that you've been able to maintain that personality that
has been successful for you, the image of Hawk Hogan
in the ring. That's not always an easy thing to do.
I say about athletes that play double digit years in sports,
for them to be able to maintain an intensity, focus
and to be able to play their sport double digit
years gets my respect. How have you been able to
(32:41):
maintain that focus and also the personality, because after a while,
you've got to be get a little tired. Sometimes I
would think of being what Hawk Hogan and a lot
of people think Haw Hogan always is.
Speaker 4 (32:53):
Well, you know, I could let my guard down and
quit working out, you know, and go ahead and say, well,
I had my run and I'm gonna just sit down
and drink beer and not work out and get real fat,
and you know, change my whole attitude about fitness. But
I've been real consistent, and I think one of the
things I had going for me is I went ball
headed at a very very early age. In my late twenties,
I was almost totally ball headed. So now I probably
(33:15):
look about the same with a big bald head hanging out.
But you know, as far as the working out goes,
it's all about consistency, and it's all a visual illusion.
I mean, you can weigh three hundred and twenty pounds
and look big, but you can also weigh two hundred
and eighty pounds going to seventy five pounds and get
your waist down a little bit smaller and camera wise,
(33:36):
it's all perception is reality. If you're perceived as shaped
in a certain way, a smaller waste makes your shoulders
look bigger. There's a way to trick the camera. And
right now I'm probably two hundred and eighty eighty five pounds,
and with a camera on me, I probably would look
bigger than my heyday, when I was totally you know,
three hundred and twenty or thirty pounds, totally blowing way
(33:58):
out of proportion and totally unhealthy. You know, taking steroids was.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
The transition for you from the ring to acting a
natural easy one because you did some of those elements
in the ring, So therefore it was easy when you
got in front of the camera. Then Terry, it.
Speaker 4 (34:13):
Kind of was. I mean, it kind of was. But
you know, the patience and the sitting around is something
that would have been a lot easier if my head
wasn't thinking, oh my gosh, I've been in this trailer
for two months. I could have made the same amount
of money in fifteen minutes wrestling if I didn't know
how green the grass was. On the other side, it
would have been much easier for me to sit around
(34:33):
for twelve or thirteen hours a day and not do
anything except wait for the director to call me out
of the trailer. I mean, the acting was okay, and
I was in a very safe zone because all I
did were low budget children's movies, which were very fun
to do. And you know, I really never had that
breakthrough movie like The Terminator or like the Rocky movie
(34:54):
where I was the real star of the show. But
you know, I really really at the time, all I
cared about was res and financially. Wrestling was very good
to me, and I think I did the right thing by,
you know, sticking with the wrestling and not having delusions
of grandeur and quitting what I was good at just
to become the so called you know, Sean Connery with
the bald head of the acting world.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
Speaking of wrestling, let's talk about wrestle Mania. Your thoughts
on it.
Speaker 4 (35:20):
I wish I was wrestling, you know, Uh, I'm going
to the Hall of Fame. Is huge for me. You know,
Sylvester Stallone's inducting me to the Hall of Fame, which
is just huge for the media and for the press,
and it really kind of puts the icing on the
cake to have Stallone there with me. And you know,
I really wish I was wrestling. You know. A few
(35:40):
months back, Vince McMahon and I entertained the idea of
Paul Covian wrestling Stone called Steve Austin the dream match
nobody has seen or nobody would have dreamed they would
ever see. And basically there were a few physical things
we talked about, with neck injuries and different things like that,
and hip injuries, and there were Steve and I are
(36:02):
so intense we'd probably both destroy each other. So I
think that's something we're going to revisit it another time.
But my heart's there. I wish I was wrestling. The
Hall of Fame will satisfy my hunger. But you know,
I don't mean to put ego into this or pride
into this, but I wish I was wrestling on the card.
(36:23):
And then sometimes some of these people, these new guys
that are in the business that have a real smart
alec attitudes. The kid Orton, Randy Orton, I know his
father very well, is being adducted to the Hall of Fame.
I heard that he's very cocky. I'd like to just
slap the smile off his face. There's a new character there,
a Kuwait American that says, our troops are weak and
(36:46):
our presidence of calard. I'd like to slap the taste
out of his mouth. I mean, for personal reasons, I'd
like to, you know, get in there. But you know,
I know right now that it's not my time. And
maybe someday soon your.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
Son wants to wrestle, was it a good idea or not.
Speaker 4 (37:03):
A good idea? Only if his heart's in it, Because
if your heart's not in it, you can't justify the
amount of injuries and the personal sacrifice with your family
and everything else that you're going to trade off for
the business.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
Will you encourage him if he comes to you and says,
I really want to put my heart into it, then Hulk,
if he comes.
Speaker 4 (37:20):
To me and he's serious about it, and we'll talk
about it. He's fourteen years old now. He was in
the ring a few years ago with Ray Mysterio and
a bunch of the other wrestlers bouncing around, and he
had a good good time in the ring, and I
thought there's a little bit of synergy there. But all
of a sudden he got involved in the import cars
and bulding motors and playing drums. So I'm not going
(37:41):
to bring that stuffect up anytime soon. He's only fourteen.
I gotta give you one more thing. You ready, Yep,
what you're going to do? Brother, come runs wild on you.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
In two thousand and five, Hogan was inducted into the
WWE Hall of Fame by actor and friend Sylvester Stallone.
In twenty fifteen, a recorded tape publicized an anti black
rant made by Hogan on a leaked sex tape. Recorded
In the recording, he has heard expressing disgust with the
notion of his daughter dating a black man, referenced by
(38:14):
repeated use of the N word. Once the recordings went
public erupting in a media scandal. Hogan apologized for the remarks,
which he said is language that is offensive and inconsistent
with his own beliefs. Wrestling historian and journalist Dave Meltzer
stated that you can't possibly overrate his significance in the
(38:34):
history of the business, and he sold more tickets to
wrestling shows than any man who ever lived. Hawk Hogan Gone,
but never forgotten. You have been listening to Ron Bar's
Sports Byline USA podcast on the eight Side Network
Hi, I'm Ron Barr, and this is today's edition of
Ron Barr's Sports Byline USA podcast on the eight Side Network.
In our continuing series We Remember, We Remember iconic professional
wrestler Hawk Hogan, who passed away recently. His size, talent,
and personality left a permanent effect on the entertainment sport
of wrestling. Hawkmania launched pro wrestling into the entertainment mainstream
(00:25):
and a multi billion dollar business. Hogan was widely regarded
as one of the greatest and globally most recognized wrestling
stars of all time. He won multiple world championships and
most notably being a six time WWE World Champion. Dave
Meltzer covered Hogan's career extensively with his Wrestling Observer Live magazine.
(00:46):
So I asked Meltzer, how significant was the Hulk to wrestling?
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Well, you know, I mean, wrestling changed in nineteen eighty four,
and that change coincided with Hulk Hogan being the face
of pro wrestling. He took what was a popular regional
business and put it on kind of a more mainstream map.
(01:11):
You know. He was the star when wrestling was on
Saturday night's main event, which in many ways was was
a major peak in the history of pro wrestling. And
you know there were when Vince McMahon, you know, vincient
Man is the one who made the move, and he
made the move with Hull Cogan as his top star.
There were a couple of other guys. If there was
(01:33):
no Haul Cogan he could have gone with. But it's
totally unrealistic to believe that any of those guys in
that situation could have made wrestling as popular as Hogan did.
He was the right guy at the right time. There's
there's there was nobody else at that time and uh
maybe you know, I mean, I mean, you know, for
(01:56):
for what, for what the time was, there was nobody
else and uh and he delivered as well as you know,
you could say just about anyone in history and the role.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
So in other words, timing was the key there. What
was it about him that allowed him to take advantage
of that timing?
Speaker 2 (02:11):
It was the right look for the period. You know,
Hogan got got through on the look. People were looking
for the big body, the blond you know, the big,
blonde haired guy. I mean people thought, I mean he
was you know, wrestling is always about larger than life.
People thought this guy was you know, six eight three
twenty and he's not quite that big, but he was
huge compared to the other wrestlers in that period. And
(02:34):
and that's what people wanted. They wanted the big surfer guy,
you know, I mean and and and they wanted the
kid's cartoon hero. You know how he had his own
cartoon show that was on in the mornings, and they
merchandised him like crazy. I mean for the eighties, you know,
for that period, that's what they wanted. In the late nineties,
when wrestling had its second big boom, they wanted something else.
(02:54):
And that's where you know Steve Austin, who was very
who was the opposite of Hogan. You know, they didn't
want another Hogan. They wanted something opposite to Hogan. And
Hogan sort of figured that out too because he made
his heel turn and that was you know, he was
a key part of the second boom period with WCW.
And you know when he had his villain run from uh,
(03:15):
I guess it would be nineteen ninety six to about
nineteen ninety nine.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
The other thing that I always thought was interesting because
you were the one that coined wrestling entertainment. He was
a guy that always understood that he understood the business
side as well as the entertainment side. Did he not well?
Speaker 2 (03:30):
I mean, business wise, I think that Hogan had a
better grasp than ninety nine point nine per some of
the wrestlers do of his own character and what he
needed to do when you know, you know, when he
was getting burned out, he knew to leave.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
Too.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Many guys in wrestling were insecure and stayed out there
and burned themselves out with the audience. When Hogan saw
he was burning himself out with the audience, he went
home for a while. When Hogan saw that the people
were booing him, he went with it, you know, I mean,
and it wasn't I'm sure it wasn't an easy move
after all those years as the most popular guy in
wrestling to admit that the run was over and you
had to switch. But he did, and you know, put
(04:06):
himself in a good position and led to a second
big period. But yeah, I think that as a businessman,
you know, Hogan, Hogan's known what to do. He's played
the game very smartly.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
The relationship between Vince McMahon and Hawk Hogan, did they
kind of need each other in a sense, did Hogan
come along at the right time for Vince and vice versa.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
I think in eighty four they needed each other. Yeah,
I mean, Hogan would have been the biggest star in
wrestling if there was no Vince McMahon, just because he
had the charisma and the right lesson. He was the
right guy. He was the right guy at the time.
It was what the fans wanted. They wanted the big
muscle guy. Now, as far as Vince, I don't think
Vince would have been as successful nationally if he had
(04:50):
gone with you know, whomever else. I mean, there was
really no great fit for that role in nineteen eighty four.
You had Rick Flair, but Vince wanted a bigger guy.
You know, Rick Flayer is the better performer, but Vince
wanted a bigger guy. Kerry Van Eric would have self
destructed in that role. He would have been the other
and Jimmy Snook had already self destructed by that point,
and so so Hogan was really the only guy I
(05:14):
think at that time who could have done what he did.
You know, they both years later did not need each
other because they both became so big from that period.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
The other thing to day that I think was really
key for both Vince McMahon and Hawk Hogan was how
television developed and how they developed the entertainment presentation of wrestling.
Am I correct in that observation that the timing there
was also very important?
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Well, I mean as far as I think that the
key was the development of pay per view. They got
in on the ground floor of pay per view, and Hogan,
you know, in the early years of pay per view
was the biggest pay per view attraction there was. I
mean for years, I mean for overten I would say,
for you know, eight to ten years, and you know,
the changes to cable, the change to may you know,
(06:01):
you know, yeah, you know, to change in the TV
industry of course were a big part of the changes
in wrestling. When when cable TV came in, the bottom
line was is that there was going to be one
or two survivors and the old network of regional companies
was was going to go down and whoever had the
biggest stars was was going to survive the fight. So
(06:21):
you know, that was you know, yeah, that was a
big part of it. You know, as far as like
it was the first time since you know, wrestling lost
network television in the early fifties that there was going
to be nation, you know, a national uh, you know,
the companies were going to go national, and Hogan was
the biggest pawn at the time because he was the
one with the most potential to be to be the
guy to lead a company.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
One of the things that I find fascinating about him,
and I think it's one of the things that makes
him one of the stars of wrestling if you look
over the generations in the decades, is that he lasted
so long. Whether he was a heel or whether he
was a hero, he's still somebody that people if you
said professional wrestling, give me one name, they probably, depending
upon the age of the person, would give you a
(07:03):
Hulk Hogan is a name, would they not?
Speaker 2 (07:05):
You know? I mean, you know, now you've got Steve Austin,
But Steve Austin is not as big with a Maine.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
And he hasn't been there as long either.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeh. I mean, I mean, you know,
you in Flair not as big with the mains, right,
although you know, Hogan and Flair both, you know, both
of them really you know, had incredible longevity. And I
think that that was because in the eighties when the
thing really hit, they were the two big stars. And
again with in Hogan's standpoint, and I think that in
this case, you wuld worry was so much better than Flair,
(07:32):
is that Hogan knew. Like one of the reasons for
Hogan's longevity is because he didn't overstay as welcome. When
the time came and there were times where Hogan was
going to burn out, where the audience was getting tired
of him, Hogan went home. He went home for a year,
and by the you know, likely he's coming back. He
has not been on national television in wrestling since June
of nineteen, since June of two thousand and three, So
(07:54):
now when he's coming to WrestleMania, the people are are
you know, it's back to the nostalgia of wanting to
see Hulk Cogan. I mean, if he'd been on TV
for five six straight years, it really wouldn't be as
big of a deal. And that's where, like I said,
that's one of the reasons for his longevity is knowing
when to go home and not overexposing himself.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
What will be his trademark in wrestling when people look
back his legacy, I guess is what I'm asking now
he was the.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
One who won the war for you know, for wor
Wrestling Federation. I mean if he had gone with if
he had been with Jim Crockett, or if he had
stayed with verne Gania the wrestling war in nineteen eighty
four and who won in the end, it could have
been very different. The history of wrestling. The history of
wrestling would have been very different for sure if he
(08:44):
had chosen a different company to stay with. And I
don't know that the winner would have necessarily been different,
but could have been different. But the fight would have
been much harder and the fight would have been much
longer if Hogan was on another side.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
You had a best selling wrestling book called Tributes, and
I'm just wondering if down the road, if you do
a follow up to that. Obviously you would put him
in there, But where does he kind of rank in
the pantheon of all the great wrestlers? Not so much
from a technique standpoint, Dave, but just overall personality wise
and technique.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
That's hard to say because there's so many guys in there.
You know, everyone in their area, you know what I mean? Yeah,
I mean as far as most important in history. You
could make a great case that he was the most
important in history. I wouldn't. I would say on a
worldwide basis, I would say that there were I think
there were guys in their in their countries that were
bigger than Hogan in the United States, and I go
(09:38):
out in question that there were a couple, But Hogan
also was far more, far bigger worldwide. You know, Hogan.
You know what people don't know is Hogan was a
huge deal in Japan before he ever hit it big
in the United States. He started, he was big in
Japan in nineteen eighty, he hit it big in the
Midwest in nineteen eighty one eighty two, and he hit
it big in the rest of the country in nineteen
(09:58):
eighty four. So I mean it was already when Vincent
Mann got him, he was already. You know, a lot
of people don't know this. A lot of people think
Vincent Man made Hulk Cogan. Hulk Hogan was already a
proven commodity and he was the biggest draw in wrestling
before Vince McMahon ever got him back. Actually, his father
had Hulk Hogan earlier in his career when he was
you know, but before Hogan became a big deal elsewhere.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Hawk Hogan became the face of professional wrestling as Vince
McMahon expanded the WWF into mainstream pop culture through the
Rock and Wrestling Connection on MTV. This period saw large
increases in viewing attendance, television ratings, and pay per view buys.
Hogan was the main attraction at the first WrestleMania held
(10:39):
back in nineteen eighty five. When We Come Back, Hawk
Hogan talks about his life, career, and legacy as we
continue on Sports Bile.
Speaker 5 (10:51):
Close.
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Also you have a lot of bad days. Oh no,
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Speaker 1 (11:50):
You're listening to Ron Barr's Sports Byline USA podcast Hawk.
Hogan joins us here on Sports Byline Hawk. Of course,
you know from his outstanding work wrestling, and he is
being inducted into the Hall of Fame as a wrestler there,
and what a cast he's going in with. He's got
Roddy Rally, Piper, Nikolai Volkoff, Jimmy Hart, Bob Orton, Junior,
(12:11):
Paul Orndorf, and the Iron Cheek. What is it that
all of you have in common as you think about
at Hawk, Oh.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
Well, probably that's probably the ugliest group of wrestling I've ever,
That's probably the number one thing I'd have to pick
out of that the Motley Crue group there. But the
other thing would be that we were around during the
heyday of wrestling during the eighties, when you know, there
wasn't any other agendas except just doing the best form
(12:39):
of art, and wrestling is an art form, the best
form of art we could do with telling a story,
creating emotions, and basically beating the holy hell out of
each other.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
When you go back and think about your contribution to wrestling,
what is it that you're most happy about.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
Probably the fact that when I got into business, the
guys were, you know, probably making twenty to twenty five
dollars a night. And then it wasn't over a long
period of years, but it was, you know, just a
couple of years after I get into business, all of
a sudden, you know, the character, the licensing and the
merchandising changed the paydays to situations where guys were making
(13:19):
millions of dollars a year.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
And I think the other thing that's important is is
that wrestling really kind of exploded. It became the end thing,
and it probably still is to someday, but for different
reasons maybe, Well, what do you think is the secret
to the success of wrestling over the long period of time.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
Well, I mean, it's you know, intertwined in our whole
American democracy and lifestyle, such as Chevrolet, McDonald's and the
Purple Mountains. Majesty. Wrestling is an American you know, heritage.
It's just embroidered in our whole society, and it's been
around since day one, and you know, now it's transcend
into internationally being accepted the American style of wrestling, and
(13:59):
it's it's some thing that basically is part of our culture.
And so it's it's really not going to go away
no matter how many times it changes or speeds up
or slows down. It's here to stay.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Is it?
Speaker 3 (14:09):
A little bit like NASCAR racing? When I talked to
Jeff Gordon and the other drivers, one of the things
they tell me is that the car is a part
of the culture of America. And I really sensed that
off of what you just said, Hawk, that the same
thing can be said about wrestling.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
Well, they can, you know, call it entertainment all they want,
and they could, you know, bring the girls to the forefront,
and they could go ahead and through the soaproper storylines backstage.
But basically none of this would happen if they didn't
have the nucleus of wrestling, all of the car and NASCAR.
You know, you can spin it in any way you want,
but basically to make this thing work, you have to
(14:43):
have a foundation, and that is the good guy versus
five guy, good versus evil. You know, the the basic
foundation of NASCAR is the car. The foundation of wrestling
is the basic wrestling match. So it's a lot, a lot,
a lot of the same.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
When you decided to go down this path, then you're life,
what was it? What was it that hooked you on this?
Why this direction rather than something else in life?
Speaker 4 (15:06):
Well, I mean I was at the time going to
the University of South Florida and playing in a rock
and roll band, putting myself through college. I was going
to have a huge career, you know, as some type
of financial advisor loan officer, because I was majoring in
finance and management at the time, and I was just
this huge wrestling fan. And during the last couple of
(15:27):
years of going to the University of South Florida, I
started going to the matches on Wednesday night in Tampa,
and one thing led to another where I finally get
to meet the wrestlers, and this huge mistique that if
you talk to them they'd rip your eyeballs out kind
of like went away once I get to know them.
And the truth was, back in the late sixties, it
was a very barbaric mentality where if you said, oh
(15:49):
my gosh, wrestling's not real, or that was a nice
show instead of a nice wrestling match, they would definitely
punch you in the mouth. Because back then it was
a whole different time. You could get in a fight
and get out of jail for fifteen dollars and there
were no lawsuits and nobody ended a fistfight with a gunshot.
I mean, times were different back then, So you can
laugh about it now, but back then, you didn't get
(16:10):
a pair of boots from Santa and get sent to
wrestling school by your parents. Back then, you had to
walk in the locker room with five or six guys
and actually take somebody's job away from them or take
the food out of their family's mouth to get in
this business.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
What about the personality aspect of it, Because you seem
to gravitate very naturally into the wrestling personality. It wasn't
just technique. It was that you had to have a personality.
How long did it take you hawk to really develop that?
Speaker 4 (16:38):
Well, you know, these personalities in wrestling, they can be
given to you by the promoter. Nowadays, they can be
thought up by a creative team, or they could be
basically expounded upon an individual's heritage, culture or his natural persona.
And you know, back in the day when I started,
there were no crews or no teams of scriptwriters, and
there was no one there to tell you, well, I
(17:00):
want you to be an Indian and I want you
to be a soldier and go to the ring with
an army helmet. I know that stuff was there. I basically,
you know, was just one of the first wrestlers that
actually lifted weights on a consistent basis. I was one
of the first wrestlers that came from you know, either
Florida or California at the time, and basically was worshiping
(17:20):
the sun. And I was one of those guys that
you know, basically taught like Muhammad Ali, you know. And
I think that whole combination kind of formed my personality
and it was accepted. It was just a real easy, fastball,
right down the middle of what this American culture was
all about. Paul Coogan's from California. He's blond here, he's tan,
(17:42):
and he trains and he says to prayers and eats
his vitamins, and it was perfect for the early eighties.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
Yeah, I know in the beginning, Sterling Golden was that
the name that you wrestled under.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
I was in Atlanta for a short while. It was
probably the fifth or sixth time I had quit wrestling,
and I think there was a promoter there named Jim Barnett,
and he was he was a different type of character,
and he used to call me. I had long blonde
hair at the time and I wasn't going ballheaded them
and he would call me Sterling Golden and he's a
(18:13):
sterling mind blind, lunking. And so I was Stirling Golding
for about six months and then I shook that monkey
off my back.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
You know, Hawk, When I think about you, the first
time I saw you, what I was impressed with was
your persona. And as I've talked to you over the years,
and this is I think the second or third time
we've ever interviewed I've ever interviewed you I've always come
away with the with the intelligence of you as well,
How does that go hand in hand with being a
successful wrestler. Does it work all the time that way
(18:44):
or were you the exception rather than the rule.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
Well, it's probably the first guy to ever just look
beyond the you know, high school wrestling match or the
local armory wrestling match, or the small you know, five
or six thousand, then your wrestling match and the six
pack of beer that goes along with it, and the
key to the holiday inn.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
You know.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
I think I was in it and you know saw that,
you know, there was this huge persona of characters and
just this whole pool of attitudes and people that had
different you know, cultures and and different ways of expressing themselves.
And I said, oh, my gosh, you know, there's and
I was just thinking even before I met Vince McMahon,
(19:27):
I was you know, selling T shirts out of the
trunk of my car and basically always had a handle
on a way to you know, turn five dollars into
fifty dollars, you know, So it was I was kind
of like like the first one to you know, basically
think about selling merchandise. And then when I went to
work for Vince McMahon. I was basically the first one
ever to play any entrance music to the ring. So
(19:50):
I kind of like, you know, got everybody. I opened
the door for everybody, and they sure plowed through it,
that's for sure.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
How did the odd personalities of wrestling influence your development
of a personnel and wrestling?
Speaker 4 (20:02):
Well, I mean I really didn't, you know, gear myself
off other guys. I didn't bounce off anybody else and
go the opposite direction. I kind of like had a
few favorite wrestlers, and there were certain things I'd pick
up on that they would do, but they wouldn't drive
the point home, you know. And there were certain wrestlers
that would say certain things, but they wouldn't make it
mean anything. And I just tried to pick out all
(20:24):
these good things that I could see in these characters
that were positive wrestlers, you know, like different guys, like
would say certain catchphrases of different guys would walk a
certain way of the ring, but they wouldn't deliver it,
you know, or they wouldn't execute it one hundred and
ten percent. So you know, if I turned aside was
in flex my arm and said I can pull the
bumper off a Cadillac Jack, I would say it and
(20:46):
just draw a bullet on the camera so that you
would remember that for the rest of your life. And
I kind of stole a little bit from a bunch
of good wrestlers and mixed it with my own personality,
and that's how I came up with the hull Coking character.
But some of the other guys, you know, they just
kind of, you know, go with a natural flow. Some
like Chief J. Strongbow. He was a Native American Indian,
so he just kind of went with what he was
and that works.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
We only have about a minute before we have to
break here. But I remember a conversation that the last
time we talked, and I asked you off the air
how long it took you to get out of bed,
and you said sometimes it took you twenty minutes.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
And I'm just.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Wondering about the physicality of the sport. How has you
developed over the years, how you handled that aspect of it.
Speaker 4 (21:25):
Well, I've got, you know, a knee replacement, and I've
got a hip replacement, and I guess both of my
hands have been numbed out for probably about twelve years.
And you know, with that old school mentality. You know,
I kept wrestling way beyond the alloted time I should
have wrestled. And you know, the new guys now, if
their little finger goes nun, they take six or seven
months off and have neck surgery. But I mean, now,
(21:47):
getting out of bed, it's an effort. I've discovered a
brand new anti inflammatory called arthroa tech that basically is
the heads and tails above biox. But you know, it
does take a while to get out of it because
I probably wrestled too many years and too long.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
Was it worth all of it. I've always talked to
athletes and not one has ever told me it wasn't.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
Well. Looking back now, it was such a great career
and such a long ride on top. I mean I saw,
you know, I can't even think that I saw. I saw,
you know, Madonna rise and fall a couple of times.
Michael Jackson had his highs and those as far as
being the main event guy. But I became the main
event guy, and I stayed on top for over twenty years.
And when I look around at my family and the
(22:28):
security they have, I don't look at the negatives. It's
just the cost of doing business that I get out
of bed a little slow, but the security this business
has given my family it made it well worth it.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
We'll continue remembering the life, career and legacy of Hawke
Hogan on Sports Close.
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Speaker 5 (23:21):
Even I added too much water to the pizza do day?
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Oh no, that was all the same day.
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Speaker 1 (23:45):
You're listening to Ron Barr's Sports Byline USA podcast. Hawk
Hogan was part of the early Golden Age of professional wrestling,
and his success extended outside the ring. He starred in
the wrestling movie No Holds Barred. During his career, all
wrestlers had their signature move Hawks was the punishing leg drop.
We talked about the various moves and techniques, how they
(24:08):
changed over the years.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
Well, I mean, you know, if you basically hit somebody
over the head with a steel chair. When I was wrestling,
the referee would either ring the bell or the wrestler
that you hit with the steel chair would be knocked
out and carried on a stretcher to the dressing room.
Now you know, they'll be a guy in the head
with a steel chair and by the time the guy
throws the chair down, the guy that was hit will
(24:31):
be standing up before the guy turns around. So the
whole mentality of the business has changed. A lot, I
mean the wrestling holes. The guys are still using a
lot of the wrestling holes, but everything is speeded up
because television moves so fast. There are more choices in
the universe as far as entertainment, a few that you
and I may have, or a few that Andre the
(24:51):
Giant and I could have. Like if I was have
an argument with Andrea on Monday, we probably wouldn't wrestle
till six months later. But nowadays, if you haven't Andrea
argument with Andrea the Giant on Monday, you'll wrestle Monday afternoon,
I mean. And so they have to move the business
along quicker because, like I said, there's so many choices
between reality TV, cable and satellite and stuff. So you know,
(25:14):
that's changed, and also that has changed the art form.
Instead of telling the story, painting the picture and creating emotions.
I think some of these guys have basically are like
a parrot, you know, they just repeat what they see
and they don't they almost wrestle like robots. Sometimes they
don't really wrestle, like The Rock or Stone Cold, Steve
(25:35):
Austin or some of these guys that still have a
grasp on what this business is all about.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
Do you believe that today's wrestler is over produced, then
that really they're a part of the production of wrestling
rather than being the technical the solid wrestlers that you
and others that you wrestled with in the beginning were.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
Yes and no. Yes on very very very few occasions. Know,
because there's only one major organization in town, and that's
the WWE. And with Vince mcmah running this company, he
knows this art form and he knows how to make
this thing work, and he's without a doubt, one of
the best in this business, wrestler, promoter, you name it,
(26:18):
he knows about it. And as far as overproduced, I think.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
With the whole world, you know.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
Wanting more, bigger, faster, higher, I think that some of
these wrestlers that you know come into their own quicker
and become stars overnight. I don't even think you can
say they're overproduced. I just think that Vince picks the
guys out that he knows can carry the football and
just pushes them as hard as he can.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
One of the things that I find very interesting hawk
is is that as I look at professional wrestling and
even the WWE as it's developed, Over the years, it
was around the people like the Hawl Cogan's, the Roddy
Rowdy Pipers, those type of wrestlers. But right now what
I'm seeing is the storyline seems to be more important
and the wrestlers themselves. It's a little bit like the NBA.
(27:02):
It used to be the Celtics against the Lakers, uh,
and then it became well, Magic Johnson against you know,
somebody else. It's always one on one rather than the
teams being the emphasis.
Speaker 4 (27:16):
You know what, I don't totally agree with you on
that because these wrestlers, you know, they they get a following,
they get a loyal situation, and with this just one company,
you know, basically setting a standard of excellence that no
one else can follow. You know, these wrestlers come into
their own and it's it's a personalized situation. I mean,
(27:37):
the kids, the loyal they know their wrestlers, they know
the feuds, and they really really kind of follow each individual.
They follow each group like if there's evolution with four
guys and a click. These wrestling fans are really dialed
in and really intelligent, and they really really, they really
really choose the wrestlers, the storylines and I just think
(27:57):
they really know the business now days, and I think
wrestling is a different animal than any other sport.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
I'll defer to you because you certainly know more about
it than I do, and it's nice to get that perspective.
Let me touch on Vince McMahon Junior for just a second.
You alluded to his having the natural touch for it.
Aside from the obvious influence that we've all seen on
him on wrestling, you being involved with him being involved
with wrestling give us a little bit more insight to
the man as well as the professional.
Speaker 4 (28:27):
I keep thinking he's like a terminator. If he yawns,
he goes to the bathroom, he probably changes his battery
in his forearm behind closed doors. I mean, this guy
is totally dedicated to this business, this art form, and
his whole family's involved in his wife, his son, and
his daughter and Vince he gives people opportunities and he
(28:49):
keeps a tight rein on things. He separates business from
personal issues, and that's one of the reasons in business.
You know, like everybody always says, don't you know, you
don't mix up business and friendship, And Vince has a
way of separating things, which keeps his business alive, which
keeps that big shield around him that protects his business.
(29:11):
And it's a family owned business and that has been for
several generations now. But Vince is a person. If he
tells you something, it will happen, you know, if you
don't step up to the plate, and if you don't,
you know, perform or do what you say you'll do.
Vince doesn't take things personally. He'll pull the carpet out
from under you if you're not a man of your words.
So that being said on a business level, On a
(29:35):
personal side, if you can get away from this business
and become friends with Vince, you know, you'll probably want
to hang around him more than anybody else, you know.
But if you cross him on a business or a
personal level, it's not great to be in that position.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
Did you learn a lot from him professionally, meaning on
a personal level off of your experiences with him, Then.
Speaker 4 (29:55):
On a personal and a business level, him and I
probably get along through two percent of the time and
totally disagree f two percent of the time because there's
always more than one right way to do things do things,
and so many people try to run tell him how
to run his business or tell him what to do.
I being one of those people. Sometimes I was right
on the money with his train of thought and sometimes
(30:18):
I wasn't. And since it's his game, his money, his business. Basically,
you know, Vince does his hit things his way and
they work. But you know, getting along with Vince, you know,
is something that I'd love to do because him as
a person. If I had to pick one person out
of this world that's helped me that I've learned from,
it would be him. And at the end of the day,
(30:40):
I don't know another person like him. And I've even
told people Vince is my hero. He is the guy
that lays out the standard and he raises the bar
to a certain standard of excellence that I had never
been around anybody that's done that.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
Well, it's nice to hear you say that, because it
says that you can separate the personal from the professional
and get the best out of both. He has injected
him himself haulk into the presentation the production of professional wrestling.
Now has that been a good move because I think
his personality was strong enough it almost added to the
whole presentation.
Speaker 4 (31:11):
Well, you know, you all all sometimes when the chips
are down you know, and you know all the men
are dead or all the men have defected and you're
in the albums. Sometimes you have to bet on yourself
to win the war. And there were certain highs and
lows in Vince's business where Vince had to plug himself
in and Vince bet on himself and he was the
greatest good guy. He was the greatest bad guy. And
(31:34):
it was out of necessity, you know. I know there
may have been a little ego there because Vince has
always wanted to get in the ring, But believe me,
it was a business decision when he climbed to that ring.
Knowing Vince away, I did, and it works. I wrestled
him at wrestle Mania in nineteen and so many of
the boys were telling me, oh my gosh, he hasn't
wrestled before, and he'll throw a punch at you and
break your nose, and you got to watch out for
(31:55):
him because he's dangerous in the ring. But I get
in the ring with Vince, you know, mind, if I
get nailed pretty hard, I don't mind giving one back.
It was a pleasure giving one back to them. But
you know, I'm really being in the ring with him
I'm all about making money, and brother, this guy has
what it takes to make money, and I will wrestle
him and I will love to kick his butt anytime
(32:15):
he wants to get in there.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
One of the things that I admire and respect about you, Hawk,
is that you've been able to maintain that personality that
has been successful for you, the image of Hawk Hogan
in the ring. That's not always an easy thing to do.
I say about athletes that play double digit years in sports,
for them to be able to maintain an intensity, focus
and to be able to play their sport double digit
years gets my respect. How have you been able to
(32:41):
maintain that focus and also the personality, because after a while,
you've got to be get a little tired. Sometimes I
would think of being what Hawk Hogan and a lot
of people think Haw Hogan always is.
Speaker 4 (32:53):
Well, you know, I could let my guard down and
quit working out, you know, and go ahead and say, well,
I had my run and I'm gonna just sit down
and drink beer and not work out and get real fat,
and you know, change my whole attitude about fitness. But
I've been real consistent, and I think one of the
things I had going for me is I went ball
headed at a very very early age. In my late twenties,
I was almost totally ball headed. So now I probably
(33:15):
look about the same with a big bald head hanging out.
But you know, as far as the working out goes,
it's all about consistency, and it's all a visual illusion.
I mean, you can weigh three hundred and twenty pounds
and look big, but you can also weigh two hundred
and eighty pounds going to seventy five pounds and get
your waist down a little bit smaller and camera wise,
(33:36):
it's all perception is reality. If you're perceived as shaped
in a certain way, a smaller waste makes your shoulders
look bigger. There's a way to trick the camera. And
right now I'm probably two hundred and eighty eighty five pounds,
and with a camera on me, I probably would look
bigger than my heyday, when I was totally you know,
three hundred and twenty or thirty pounds, totally blowing way
(33:58):
out of proportion and totally unhealthy. You know, taking steroids was.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
The transition for you from the ring to acting a
natural easy one because you did some of those elements
in the ring, So therefore it was easy when you
got in front of the camera. Then Terry, it.
Speaker 4 (34:13):
Kind of was. I mean, it kind of was. But
you know, the patience and the sitting around is something
that would have been a lot easier if my head
wasn't thinking, oh my gosh, I've been in this trailer
for two months. I could have made the same amount
of money in fifteen minutes wrestling if I didn't know
how green the grass was. On the other side, it
would have been much easier for me to sit around
(34:33):
for twelve or thirteen hours a day and not do
anything except wait for the director to call me out
of the trailer. I mean, the acting was okay, and
I was in a very safe zone because all I
did were low budget children's movies, which were very fun
to do. And you know, I really never had that
breakthrough movie like The Terminator or like the Rocky movie
(34:54):
where I was the real star of the show. But
you know, I really really at the time, all I
cared about was res and financially. Wrestling was very good
to me, and I think I did the right thing by,
you know, sticking with the wrestling and not having delusions
of grandeur and quitting what I was good at just
to become the so called you know, Sean Connery with
the bald head of the acting world.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
Speaking of wrestling, let's talk about wrestle Mania. Your thoughts
on it.
Speaker 4 (35:20):
I wish I was wrestling, you know, Uh, I'm going
to the Hall of Fame. Is huge for me. You know,
Sylvester Stallone's inducting me to the Hall of Fame, which
is just huge for the media and for the press,
and it really kind of puts the icing on the
cake to have Stallone there with me. And you know,
I really wish I was wrestling. You know. A few
(35:40):
months back, Vince McMahon and I entertained the idea of
Paul Covian wrestling Stone called Steve Austin the dream match
nobody has seen or nobody would have dreamed they would
ever see. And basically there were a few physical things
we talked about, with neck injuries and different things like that,
and hip injuries, and there were Steve and I are
(36:02):
so intense we'd probably both destroy each other. So I
think that's something we're going to revisit it another time.
But my heart's there. I wish I was wrestling. The
Hall of Fame will satisfy my hunger. But you know,
I don't mean to put ego into this or pride
into this, but I wish I was wrestling on the card.
(36:23):
And then sometimes some of these people, these new guys
that are in the business that have a real smart
alec attitudes. The kid Orton, Randy Orton, I know his
father very well, is being adducted to the Hall of Fame.
I heard that he's very cocky. I'd like to just
slap the smile off his face. There's a new character there,
a Kuwait American that says, our troops are weak and
(36:46):
our presidence of calard. I'd like to slap the taste
out of his mouth. I mean, for personal reasons, I'd
like to, you know, get in there. But you know,
I know right now that it's not my time. And
maybe someday soon your.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
Son wants to wrestle, was it a good idea or not.
Speaker 4 (37:03):
A good idea? Only if his heart's in it, Because
if your heart's not in it, you can't justify the
amount of injuries and the personal sacrifice with your family
and everything else that you're going to trade off for
the business.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
Will you encourage him if he comes to you and says,
I really want to put my heart into it, then Hulk,
if he comes.
Speaker 4 (37:20):
To me and he's serious about it, and we'll talk
about it. He's fourteen years old now. He was in
the ring a few years ago with Ray Mysterio and
a bunch of the other wrestlers bouncing around, and he
had a good good time in the ring, and I
thought there's a little bit of synergy there. But all
of a sudden he got involved in the import cars
and bulding motors and playing drums. So I'm not going
(37:41):
to bring that stuffect up anytime soon. He's only fourteen.
I gotta give you one more thing. You ready, Yep,
what you're going to do? Brother, come runs wild on you.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
In two thousand and five, Hogan was inducted into the
WWE Hall of Fame by actor and friend Sylvester Stallone.
In twenty fifteen, a recorded tape publicized an anti black
rant made by Hogan on a leaked sex tape. Recorded
In the recording, he has heard expressing disgust with the
notion of his daughter dating a black man, referenced by
(38:14):
repeated use of the N word. Once the recordings went
public erupting in a media scandal. Hogan apologized for the remarks,
which he said is language that is offensive and inconsistent
with his own beliefs. Wrestling historian and journalist Dave Meltzer
stated that you can't possibly overrate his significance in the
(38:34):
history of the business, and he sold more tickets to
wrestling shows than any man who ever lived. Hawk Hogan Gone,
but never forgotten. You have been listening to Ron Bar's
Sports Byline USA podcast on the eight Side Network
Host
Ron Barr
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