Adventures in Broadcasting With Brian Anderson

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to Rosters to Rings With Ryan McDonough, I am
fad Levine. We got a wonderful show for you today.
In our second segment, we're going to be joined by
Brian Anderson, one of the most pre eminent broadcasters in
all of sports, fresh off of covering the French Open.
But our tradition in the first segment is we get
to our listeners questions. One of the most pressing things

(00:28):
in sports today. And Ryan, the questions came in in droves.
I'm going to attribute this one to JW who is
a self described nix Zellot living in southern California, and
he wants to ask you, what do you make of
Tom Thibodeau's firing by the New York.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
Knicks fad There's not much in the NBA that shocks
me anymore really in pro sports in general, but this
one was surprising just because of how much recent success
the Knicks have had compared to the lack of success
they've had really over the past two decades. Going back
to two thousand, Tom Thibodeau had the team within two
games of the conference finals forcut me the NBA finals

(01:07):
for the first time in twenty five years. He was
the most successful Knicks coach in decadestad he won fifty
games in back to back seasons in New York. That
had not happened since nineteen ninety four nineteen ninety five.
And keep in mind, this is a team and obviously
in the Mecca, the Marquis in New York City, the
country's biggest media market. That but they have not won
an NBA championship since nineteen seventy three. And I think

(01:31):
that's one of the things that's so hard about these
jobs is what is the expectation. Because by any objective measure,
Tom Thibodeau did great, not good. He did great with
the New York Knicks, getting them into the playoffs for
on the last five years, advancing in the playoffs, going
further every year. This year, you know, losing in Game
six of the conference finals, and that I want to

(01:52):
get your take on it, you know, relative to MLB.
But it's one of the things that I think makes
these jobs so difficult in this day and age because
guys like you and I I think when we came
into the league, if you want enough, even if things
weren't perfect away from the court of the field, you
stayed employed. Now it seems like in certain instances, winning
on its own just isn't enough to keep you employed
for a long period of time.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
Well, it absolutely isn't. I mean. The thing that was
most remarkable as I was preparing to respond to Jadaw's
question is I was just shocked to see Major League
Baseball they have a National League and American League Manager
of the year. So over the LAT over a period
of time from twenty seventeen to twenty twenty three, fourteen
people were named manager of the year, seven in the

(02:33):
National League, seven in the American League. Of those fourteen,
only four are still employed by the team for which
they won the award. Okay, so four out of fourteen,
so there's some proxy of those were the best managers
in the game, and there's that level of attrition. So
I just jumped over into your world and I looked
at the NBA. Over that same timeframe, seven guys were
named the coach of the year. Of those seven, all

(02:55):
seven have been fired. And what was even more remarkable,
Sultan the Wound, is two them have been fired twice
since then. So the seven guys who were named the
coach of the year have been fired collectively nine times
over that period of time. It's just a staggering figure.
And it just goes to show the average tenure for
an NBA head coaches two and a half years in

(03:16):
Major League Baseball, it's three point seven years. The volatility
of these roles is so pronounced. And we're not talking
about the teams that finished in last place. We're talking
about the teams that had the head coach of the year,
the manager of the year, and they are losing their
jobs at that level. And it was incredible. Eighteen percent
of NBA head coaches lose their job within the first year. Ryan,

(03:39):
when you were in the seat, when you were making
selections and influencing selections, when you weren't in the seat
about who the head coach was. How do you pitch
these guys on, Hey, we want you to believe in
a five year plan when this is the reality of
the volatility of these positions.

Speaker 2 (03:53):
I think the reality of it that is there only
thirty of these jobs in the NBA in Major League Baseball,
so even a franch guys just have history of churning.
I think as a young executive, you and I grow
up and dream of becoming a president or a general manager,
which we're fortunate enough to achieve. And same on the
on the coaching side. You know, you grow up dreaming
of these jobs. So not many people, I mean maybe

(04:15):
a few former players who have made a lot of
money that are in a position to turn it down
and say no, I don't want to do that. But
I don't know many people, including your and Iddy, my buddies,
I probably don't know any of them would say, now,
I don't want millions of dollars in a guarantee contract
the opportunity to be head coach channel manager.

Speaker 1 (04:30):
I'm going to pass on that.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
So I think you have to know getting into it
that the Steve Kerrz and Eric Spolstra's you know, Greg Popovich,
you're recently retired from coaching in San Antonio now moving
up to the front office. Those guys are the outliers.
They're the anomalies. You pointed out the numbers, the average
lifespan as far as the head coach is or manager
is two or three years, and that it's the winning

(04:53):
teams now too. That's been the recent trend in the
NBA is that just before the playoffs started, with three
games left in a successful regular season, the Denver Nuggets
fired not only their head coach, Michael Malone, who is
the winningest coach in franchise history, but also their general manager,
Calvin Booth. There was a power struggle in Denver, and
Josh Kroncky, the owner, did not pick one side or

(05:14):
the other. He said, both of you guys lose. I'm
firing both of you guys. They promoted David Adalman to
interim head coach. They've since given him the full time gig.
After a successful playoff run in which they lost to
the OKC Thunder in seven games. But their thad and
then I go down to Memphis Taylor Jenkins, the winningest
coach in the history of that franchise. He was also
a late season firing. I believe there are nine games

(05:35):
left in the Grizzly season. So turning it back around
to you and looking at baseball, this is a recent
trend in the NBA that I'm not sure it's a
good trend. But like the teams going to the playoffs
in Major League Baseball ever make managerial changes, say in
September or just before the postseason begins.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
Honest to goodness, Ryan, I've never seen it. I've never
seen what you guys experience in the NBA this year,
where you had two coaches leading up to it an executive.
You also saw the Atlanta Hawks fired their gmfter a
playoff run. I think that's a little bit more common
in baseball. So twelve teams make the playoffs every year

(06:15):
in Major League Baseball. Now with the expanded format, that
means you have twelve lead executives, you have twelve managers.
That's twenty four people. I think it's not uncommon to
see one or two firings in that group for lack
of reaching expectations. But it's never done in August, it's
never done in September. Heading into it, the coaches and
executives who are losing their jobs, there are ones who

(06:37):
willfully fell short of expectations. They're not tracking to the playoffs.

Speaker 3 (06:42):
You know.

Speaker 1 (06:42):
One observation I have, and I'd be curious if your
thoughts on the next situation is I will say, sometimes
you do need a new voice, you know, and it's
not necessarily singularly linked to winning percentage. So you know,
I was looking up the records you just mentioned Eric Spolster,
who I think is regarded one of the best coaches,
not only in the NBA, but maybe across all sports well. Interestingly,

(07:04):
he is the exact same career winning percentage as Tom Thibodeau,
who just got fired and has been fired a number
of times. Eric Spulsure has never been fired, and so
it's not just about the winning percentage. Sometimes it is
about the voice and the presentation. And Tom Thibodeau unequivocally
has had success everywhere he's been. I'd be curious your feelings,

(07:25):
Ryan about are some of the things that you could
attribute his success to. Also the reasons why maybe he's
not necessarily meant to be the guy who's coaching for
say eight to ten to twelve consecutive years, just because
it wears thin after a while. So it works different
in certain timeframes. But depending on where you are cyclically,

(07:45):
sometimes the voice does need to change.

Speaker 2 (07:48):
Yeah, I think Tom's personality. He's a single guy, He's
a grinder. I work with him for three years in
the Celtics. We had a great run and won the
NBA Championship in two thousand and eight, lost to the
Lakers in the twenty ten to five, and then shortly
after that he got his first head coaching job with
the Chicago Bulls. So I think, like a lot of
us had, our strands can also be looked at its
as weaknesses at certain times. So yeah, I think, you know,

(08:12):
a guy like Tom does have a tendency to to
maybe push too hard and great, but look he won.
And that's what's hard about this objectively is if if
you do okay or poorly, and you grind and great
on people, I think it's easy to make a change
if you win. If you asked me to go, make
a bet on it that. I think whoever's the next
head coach of the New York Knicks, whether it's Jason

(08:33):
Kidd or we'll see who they get, they're not going
to do as well next year or in the next
couple of years as Tom Tividdter just did. Taking this
team to Game six of a conference finals. I think
the team at best goes sideways. I think more likely
it goes backwards. So that's what's so hard about it
that these these coaching hires you never know. But I
do think you make an excellent point. The ones who
last the longest, like Steve Kerr, who comes out of

(08:55):
the Phil Jackson tree, there's a balance and a lack
of intensity, and don't mistake that for lack of preparation
of caring. But they manage the ups and downs very well.
And I also think that an important factor is that
maybe the most in fact important factor is ownership in
the stability of it. Miami, in the most positive sense

(09:15):
of the word, as a coach or an executive is
an outlier where they look for every reason to stand
behind their coach and their president and general manager and
support those guys. We had that with the Boston Celtics
when I was there. We did not have that with
the Phoenix Suns and certain organizations the Knicks are one
of them, the Sons or another that if you look
at the pattern and the history of it, it kind

(09:36):
of repeats itself that whether they're looking for a new
head coach or a new executive, seemingly every couple of years,
and Ryan, you.

Speaker 1 (09:42):
Brought it up earlier. These jobs are so coveted that
people will take those jobs. But it is you're remiss
if you don't look at the track record of the
owner when you take these jobs, and so you should
not be surprised when three to five years down the road,
maybe the Knicks or maybe the sons are making another change,
because the best indication of what their behaviors are going

(10:02):
to be moving forward as their past tendencies. And so
I just would you know, my last point here is
just I think sometimes like voices do run their course.
I have to believe that guys like Steve Kerr, Eric
Spolstrou have been in their places for so long, they've evolved,
They've changed, They've changed their voice, they've changed their message.
Because any singular voice, any singular message does there's some

(10:26):
fatigue over a timeframe and you have to freshen it up.
So unless that person is showing the ability to change
and evolve, you sometimes have to change to the person.
Guys like Tom Thibodau have been so massively successful everywhere else,
what is inspiring him to change because he's had such
great success. And so that then is where the rubber
meets the road, and sometimes changes have to be made.

Speaker 2 (10:49):
And coming up next, we're going to have a guy
who covers all of it, the NBA, Major League Baseball,
the French Open Golf, Minor League baseball. He's the voice
of two K. We're going to get into that right
after this with Brian Anderson on Rosters.

Speaker 3 (11:11):
Welcome back to Rosters, to Rings everyone.

Speaker 2 (11:13):
I am Ryan McDonough, joined as always by Thad Levine,
and we have a special guest for you today, that
is Brian Anderson. Brian started calling Milwaukee Brewers games back
in two thousand and seven. In two thousand and eight,
he began to work with Turner Sports. You've seen him
on Turner now for close to two decades. You can
see and hear him on national NBA and Major League

(11:35):
Baseball broadcast, plus big golf events and the NCAA Men's
basketball tournament. Just a few days ago you heard him
call the French Open Men's final, which is already considered
among the best tennis matches in the history of the sport. Brian,
Welcome to Rosters, to Rings, and let's start there. What
was it like watching and calling the historic match between

(11:56):
Carlos Alcaaz and Janick Center this past Sunday.

Speaker 3 (12:00):
Great to be with you guys. What a role reversal too.
I'm the one supposed to be asking you guys questions.
Now you're you're the big executives. How the tables have
turned former execuew too.

Speaker 2 (12:11):
Just to be clear, former that's.

Speaker 3 (12:12):
Why you're never a former, You're always an executive. Uh yeah,
that was really one of the coolest things I've ever
been a part of, I've ever witnessed as a sports fan,
I've ever called as a sports announcer. The setting, the play,
the fact that it not only went five sets, but
it was an epic five setter. They're not supposed to

(12:33):
go that long, five and a half hours, longest ever
at roll on Garros, and it was just one of
those moments where you thought it was going to end,
and then it didn't end, and you know, the river
went so many different ways and had so many different forks. Ultimately,
Carlos Halkaaz withstood at all and and went back to

(12:55):
back defended his title, and Johannix Center number one player
in the world Alcoraz defending champions. So it was a
collision course of these two great tennis players that are
the next wave. Jim Currier labeled him the new two
coming off the Big three era from Rafi Nadal who
had won fourteen titles at Roland Garos and of course

(13:18):
Roger Federer. You could even add Andy Murray in that
group as well. With Novak Djokovic and Federer and Nadal.
Djokovic is still playing, so he got knocked out in
the semifinals. So he had all this drama and all
this theater set up and all these backstories, and you
just feel for ninety seven percent of the tour, the

(13:40):
ATP tour, especially because their window after the Big Three
was very closed, very much closed quickly because these two
new players are on the scene at age twenty two
and twenty three in alcoraz In Center, So it was
all of that. It was the first time they'd ever
met in a Grand Slam final, because it was the

(14:00):
first time they would ever seeded one and two in
a Grand Slam final. So they met in the semifinals
at roll On Garrels a year prior. But this was
it had all the juice, man. I mean, it was like,
you know, I've called six hour extra inning, eighteen inning
baseball games. I've called epic NBA moments Lebron James scoring

(14:23):
record or Stephen Curry's three point record. Those were small,
micro moments inside of a regular season game. I've never
called an epic like this from start to finish. So
I was an honor to be there, and it was honor.
It is our first year TNT Sports to have it.
And then we got Cocoa Golf in the final and

(14:44):
winning a US woman winning for the first time in
ten years on Saturday, and then this epic match on Sunday.
So what a gift that was from the tennis gods
to us. That's what you get if you pay sixty
five million dollars a year for ten years. I guess
we bought our way it, Brian.

Speaker 1 (15:02):
As I was watching the match, I was thinking of
a story that Jerry Depot used to tell us, which
was a Jerry Depota, now general manager of the Seattle
Mariner's good friend of mine. He would challenge the interns
every year. He would say, hey, if you got five
hundred played appearances in the big leagues, how many hits
would you get? And everyone would contemplate. They'd say I
could get five hits, I could get ten hits. One

(15:22):
bold guy would say I could hit one hundred in
the big leagues, and he'd say, no, no, The answer
is always the same, it's zero. You would never get
a hit. And so as I was watching those two
guys play, I was thinking of the reality show Pros
Versus Joe's that came out of the early two thousands,
and how much I would love to see one fan
try to return or serve from one of those two guys,
and how woefully behind they would be. But one thing

(15:44):
I wanted to ask you, Brian about about the match itself,
was you guys talked about the statistics. Center was eighteen
and one in his career, went up two sets to
love and Alcarez was zero to five in his career
when he was down two sets to love. One of
the things we talk about on rosters to rings is
when you watch a lot of sports, you kind of
get the sense, you get the field, that there's a

(16:06):
momentum shift, and often that happens before the shift actually
takes place. There are countless games I've watched where we've
been down six to three and I think, you know what,
they didn't score right here, they didn't put us away.
We're going to win this game. And unfortunately the opposite
is true. When you were broadcasting this epic match, was
there a time in which you turned to John mcnroe

(16:27):
and said, Hey, I think he has a chance to
come back here, like the tides just turned. And if so,
when when was that in this match?

Speaker 3 (16:34):
Yeah, well there were a few of those moments and
it went both ways. So of course I'm new to
tennis broadcasting, so you know, my eyes are untrained on this.
So I was constantly throughout the whole two weeks, whoever
I was working with, I was constantly firing off that
those kinds of questions that you're saying. So in this

(16:55):
particular match, I'm asking John McEnroe, who's endured a loss
at roll on Garos when he was up two sets
to love in a final against a Van Lendel, so
he you know, he's lived that. So those were common
questions and I would ask him man if and I wasn't.
I didn't say like was that a turning porter or

(17:16):
inflection point? You can kind of feel that it was
more like in advance of it. So when he when
he finally did so, Alcoraz was facing three championship points,
meaning Alcaraz was serving. But if Centner wins any of
the next three points, when it was three to five
in the fourth set, he loses, he's out, it's over.

(17:37):
And then he came back and he won that game.
He came back and won that service game, got a hold,
and that's when I asked mac I go, like, what's
that going to do to Center, because now the crowd
is fully behind Alcarez. He's already beaten him here on

(17:57):
the clay. He just beat him three Sundays prior in
Rome in a final on the clay. And now that
was a three setter, but he you know, Alkarez had
beaten Center for consecutive times. This is the number one
player in the world. Center who's dominated everybody, hadn't even
lost a set to get to the finals. He'd won
eighteen straight and then won the first two twenty consecutive sets,

(18:18):
one and thirty one consecutive sets at Major's. Remember he
won the Australian Open in January. This is like the
most dominant force. It'd be like, you know, the the
most dominant closer in baseball, and there's only one guy
who can beat him, and he just keeps clipping him
every time. It's like Mariano Rivera, but pick one guy,

(18:41):
Luis Gonzalez maybe who gets him every time. So that
was kind of the dynamic. So those questions were flying,
and definitely Johnny Mack brings such incredible perspective, you know,
for me, it just it morphed into a side of
aside from what was going to happen in the match
and what the result was going to be, there was

(19:02):
great entertainment value. Obviously, it lofted tennis to a place
that it really probably hasn't been. That was probably the
statement that surprised me the most from Johnny Mack. You know,
you think about Nadal and Federer and Djokovic, Andy Murray,
they elevated the game, and then these two have taken
all of that sweet stuff and elevated it even more.

(19:26):
And we're watching tennis literally that we've never watched before.
So just like in other sports, you know, we're seeing
hoopers make three pointers at ranges we've never seen before.
We've seen baseball players though at velocity that we've never
seen before, hit the ball with velocity and maybe we
haven't seen before. And so that's where we are now

(19:46):
in tennis with these this new group of players and
especially these two. So for me, it was like pulling
all of the knowledge that I had covering all these
other sports from you know, thirty years of broadcasting, then
the confluence of not having done tennis and trying to
make it make sense in my mind. The thing I
did know about and was sure about was the competitive

(20:10):
spirit and just the incredible will. And I said this
on the air, but and I mean it even today
to watch elite athletes play at an elite level with
great care and want to playing for an elite title,
like it all matters to them, so you're getting peak performance.

(20:34):
It was like a case study in sports psychology. It
was all of that. There's no load management that Ryan
had to deal with in his sport. There's no you know,
we're not pushing starters back to get them a few
extra days rest. This is when all the chips were
in the middle. And man, when you get to witness
that like I did personally, and then to be able

(20:56):
to put my voice on it, which creates a whole
different kind of stress. But that's what really gets me going.
So I knew that I knew about that angle, like
I could sense that and feel that. But the tennis
stuff was not you know, that's not off the top
of my tongue. I don't have the context for how
great this is. Is this the best ever? Is it
top three? Is it top five? So bad? To your question?

(21:19):
Those were the questions I'm asking literally every commercial to
John McEnroe, Good Brian.

Speaker 2 (21:24):
Some of the initial feedback we've gotten here in rosters
to rings is people enjoy listening because they may want
to go on to be a front office executive like
that and I were, or may want to go on
to be a head coach or a manager like aj
Hinch was who we had on our last show. For
anyone listening who wants to be a broadcaster, take us
inside your preparation. You cover as many sports as anybody.

(21:45):
I imagine this was a unique challenge doing tennis for
the first time, with men and women coming from all
over the world. The punt pronunciations, I imagine weren't very easy.
So take us inside how it's different preparing for a
tennis smatch, say, versus preparing for it an MLB or
an NBA game. And also, what is it like working
with a larger than life personality in John McEnroe. I

(22:05):
know you have some experience working with Charles Barkley at
Turner Sports, but with Johnny Mack is probably as identifiable,
maybe more identifiable with men's tennis as anybody in the country.

Speaker 3 (22:17):
Yeah, for sure. I mean that's an easy one. Johnny
Mack was very similar to being around Bob Buker for
the last eighteen years until we lost him this January.
It had that gravitational pull. You know, Bob Buker walked
into a room, you knew he was in the room,
and all eyes were on him, and then that's what
that was like. And then working with Jim Currier and

(22:38):
Andre Agassi throughout the match, and then in the semi final,
it's the same kind of perspective and vibe. They bring
security guards with him, people, you know, just having watching
them navigate through the crowds to get from our compound
green room to the booth. It was exactly like being

(22:59):
in the bob ecosystem. And I'm actually I kept saying
to myself, how fortunate am I that I've been around
you can in that bubble with the Brewers, with Bob
Uker for you know, almost two decades that this is
not new to me, and I can experience that and
understand some of the sensitivities that go into that. You know,
when you walk through a scene like that and you

(23:19):
finally arrived to the I don't know, let's call it
the serenity of the booth, and you can finally just relax.
I thought, I thought that was exactly what I've experienced
with you. So that helped me understand them more and
know that scene better and also know how to navigate that.
And then he's great on the air, and all those
guys are great on the air, and their tennis knowledge

(23:41):
is incredible. So I learned a lot throughout the two weeks.
The preparation for it was, I would say a little unusual.
It's probably my own maniacal way, but you know, I'm
I'm an athlete. I was never to the level of
my brother Mike, you know, who played professionally made it
to the major leagues briefly, but you know, I played

(24:04):
college baseball and I played every sport and it's really
helped me call every sport similar to your brother Ryan.
Like Sean McDonald was one of my great idols. He's
the guy looked up to and I watched him call
these other sports with such ease and fluidity. He was
one of the guys that I wanted to kind of
be like. I wanted to be versatile, you know, number one,

(24:27):
because I wanted to make sure I had a job
and if I was versatile. In the early days. Doing
multiple sports kept me working, so there was a practical
sense to it. But also I enjoy all of that,
like I enjoy telling stories of players, because that really
doesn't change no matter the sports are on the rhythm
of it and the vocabulary changes, but the essence of

(24:49):
what we do is to try to deliver these reasons
to care about these individual athletes or the subjects. That
doesn't change. So for me to start tennis, I found
out eight months ago, and you know, my first thing
was I'm going to go reconnect with the game from
a playing perspective. So I went. I hired a coach.

(25:11):
I did high level. He coaches like high level younger
tennis players, elite level tennis players, so he has no
business with a fifty four year old man, but he
took it on here in Wisconsin through the winter. His
name is Tim Hartwick, and I told him to teach
me and talk to me like you would an elite player,
because I need to hear lingo verbage. He would line

(25:34):
up his high level talent and they would serve at
me like cook and serves at me one hundred and
thirty miles an hour, just because I wanted to feel
what that looked like on the other side. So that
was my first step was as a player, just to
start playing again and not really like playing matches, but
the training part. And obviously I'm not any good, but

(25:56):
I'm like a three and a half level player, maybe
a four at this point. But so that was number one.
Number two was then traveling out there to see So
I flew to Paris in November. There's an indoor event
called the Rolex Masters in bear Sea, which is where
they played the Olympic basketball and gymnastics if you remember
that venue. So that's where the tennis tournament was. It

(26:18):
was only atp only men's but at least you know,
I sat there at that had like a baseball scout.
This is like I took my brother, who's a scout now.
I basically took all those principles and I sat there
for four matches a day, for eight hours a day,
like a baseball scout, and I made notes, and I
had my phone and had my notepad and my voice memo,

(26:40):
and I watched match after match and I did that
for four days. I watched sixteen matches in four days,
and I barely moved from that seat. So I took
a lot of the principles that I knew from that
to prepare for that. Then I did the same thing
at Indian Wells in March, and obviously watching Tennis channel preparing,
like learning just the rhythm and the flow, when do

(27:02):
they take commercials, when do they speak, when do they not,
how they navigate the broadcast and kind of the finishing steps.
Where I went to Indian Wells and that really for
me was it was between NBA games, and I asked
T and T to put me on some West Coast
games during that run. So I did a Lakers game,
a Clippers game, a Nuggets game, a Sun's game, and

(27:23):
so I was able to bounce back and forth between
those locations and Indian Wells, California, you know, Palm Springs area.
So that was more like to connect with certain media
people and that's where I met these you know, like
authors and writers and French writers from La Keep and
Christopher Clary who wrote the adult book that's just out
now which I highly recommend, called The Warrior. So that

(27:47):
was more to expand a little bit on the you know,
the connections, the network of people who have been doing
this for a long time. John Wertheim and a guy
from Tennis Channel named Prakash Armitrage who it was my
tennis yoda. So that's a detailed answer, but that was
my way to get to the point where when I

(28:09):
showed up on the grounds at roll On Garos, now
I'm doing the things that I know how to do,
and that is talk to players, talk to coaches, gather
quotes like things you can't read in a media guide
are on a Wikipedia page. Tell me about Tommy Paul
right now, the fact that his orthodox were stolen and
he's having issues with his feet like those are the
things that really motivate me when I show up on

(28:32):
the ground, similar to that, you know when we would
go down to batting practice and you're around the turtle,
you know the cage, and you're just acquiring knowledge things
you may be able to use on the air. So
I laid it out in multiple phases, from actually playing
the game to learning, to watching the scouting to then
talking to the individuals when I felt comfortable to be

(28:54):
able to ask the right kind of question. So it
was a huge process. I'm really glad I did it.
Haven't done anything new in about twenty five years and
by the way. I did that exact same those same
steps when I got the Golf Channel job, when I
got rescued out of minor league baseball, where I got
stuck for nine years calling minor league baseball games, which

(29:16):
I loved but was ready to move on. I did
the exact same thing for golf and so it worked
for me in the past, and that was basically why
I wanted to pursue it this way. And thankfully T
and T had the resources to send me these places.
And you know, there's prettym involved in hotels and transportation,

(29:37):
so I'm really grateful for all of that.

Speaker 1 (29:40):
Brian, you just alluded to it. We have a lot
more broadcasting questions for you, but we do want to
jump over to baseball for a second here. You talked
about everyone knows you for being on the center stage
of the best sporting events around the globe, but you
got your start in minor league baseball. One thing we
try to do on Rosters rings is one of the

(30:01):
tie that binds all of us together is this notion
of we all have an origin story that where we
fell in love with sports. We'd love to hear your
origin story and walk us through a little bit about
getting that first job and how you paid your dues
before you got your big break.

Speaker 3 (30:15):
Yeah, I'll try to be quicker, but it was very
unorthodox path too. And again it all leads back to
my playing career. So my brother Mike was he was
not drafted. He's an amazing story, my brother Mike, and
he signed out of a tryout camp. He was ready
to go be a stockbroker, got passed up in the draft,

(30:36):
you know, multiple times through from high school even into
his college years. He's just going to go get in
the workforce like the rest of us. But he found
something mechanically and he signed Chuck Lamar, who would go
on to be the general manager of the Tampa Bay
Rays then known as the Devil Rays, signed him out
of a tryout camp. A cattle call. I mean, there's

(30:57):
guy's in blue jeans and cowboy boots there, and so
that was like I mentioned that, because without Mike doing that,
there is no me doing this. Because you know, Mike,
he's five years older. He looks like he's twenty years older,
but he's only five years older, which is his problem.
I feel bad for him sometimes, but he broke this

(31:22):
paper ceiling that we didn't even know existed into another
life and world of achievement. So he breaks through nineteen
eighty eight, gets signed, he makes it to the big leagues.
So through his path through the minor leagues, I'm going
to visit him. I'm still playing competitively at college, and
so I'm training and spending time with him every summer

(31:42):
for weeks at a time. So during those steps, through
those years in the early nineties, now as Mike's marching
up the ladder in the Reds organization, I'm spending time
with the radio announcers, and I'm just kind of like,
I think I could do that. I mean, that seems
like a cool job. And it's also about I'm realizing
I'm not going to be good enough to get drafted

(32:03):
to get signed. So now I'm really searching for a
plan B. And was I going to go be a
baseball scout, which I got offered to do by the Reds,
or go into broadcasting. And that happened in ninety four.
So I graduate my college team, we went to the
NAI World Series. It was a great ride. My career ended,
I got my degree. We shared the field, we actually

(32:26):
leased our field to the DODGERSUAA team, and so I
was very much in the mix with the professional team
that would come in in the summers after our season ended.
And so I just stayed and I worked for the
Spurs and I worked for the San Antonio Missions, and
I just kind of got to know those guys and
I pulled tarp and I helped with the grounds crew

(32:47):
and all kind of stuff. And then they moved into
a new stadium and they wanted a secondary announcer, so
they asked me at twenty two if I would do that.
I had a lot of technical background because I had
done a lot of TV tech work while I was
in college, so I was able to bring some of
those skills to it. And then that's where it started.

(33:07):
And so now you know, I started calling minor league baseball.
I was brutal. I was an English major. I didn't
study journalism or communications like I wouldn't have survived two
weeks at new House at Syracuse or Northwestern or some
of these great, you know, broadcasting universities. I wouldn't have
made it. I was awful. I didn't even know how

(33:30):
to like speak properly and do any of this publicly,
but I did have a rhythm of the game. And
I had played all these sports, so I knew all
these different games. And I'm getting high school Texas high
school football games to call on the radio basketball games.
I'd also been an official when I was in college.
It was part of our head coach ran not to

(33:51):
go on a rabbit hole, but he hired all his players.
It was before nil, so the way to get us
paid is we were referees and officials and umpires. So
that was our game. So you know, I kind of
seen the game from so many different levels. I took
all of that to minor league baseball and high school football,
and I was calling like high school basketball on the

(34:11):
radio and doing all kind of whatever I could do.
I never said no, I did everything. I was doing. Swimming,
I did Big twelve swimming and diving, women's hoops, men's hoops,
it didn't matter, college hoops. And I was working for
the Spurs as well as first as on the technical side,
and then ultimately I got on the air with the Spurs.

(34:32):
That was really one of the major breaks. So five
years after I started calling minor league baseball games on
the radio, I get the Spurs job. I had called
some minor league like double A All Star game for ESPN,
Little League World Series games on television, and then you know,
it wasn't a fast rise. I mean, my agent calls

(34:53):
me the twenty year overnight success, you know, and he
still calls me that because I spent nine years calling
minor league baseball. I worked for the Spurs for eight
years on the air, fourteen total. But things really snapped
when I got the Brewers job in two thousand and seven.
And when I got that job, and that was a
miracle to even get that job. I had no major

(35:16):
league experience whatsoever, and they were looking for that. That
was a major parameter for them. But I broke through that.
Thank goodness, they gave me a chance, and literally from
seven it was the TV voice of the Brewers. Eight
I'm doing, I get hired by TBS to do the
Baseball playoffs, and I've been with both of those entities

(35:37):
ever since. This is my nineteenth year of the Brewers
and my eighteenth year with then Turner Sports now TNT Sports.

Speaker 2 (35:45):
That's a long time in this industry, Brian, And you're
going back to your minor league days. Reminds me of
when I was in college In two thousand and one,
I was the second guy in the radio booth for
a double A team called the Carolina Mudcats.

Speaker 3 (35:57):
They played games. We own that team now, the Brewers.

Speaker 2 (36:00):
Okay, yeah, the Zebuline, North Carolina. They played a five
county stadium and that I remember opening night in my
first game, I'm very excited. I had my one pair
of cocky pants, you know, pressed nicely by one pair
of nice shoes. I go out there and it starts
raining and some guy looks at me. He goes, you
go get the tarp, and I was like, what you know?
And so I went out there and rolled the tarp.
As Brian mentioned that, that's just what you do in

(36:22):
minor league baseball, So that was a fun.

Speaker 3 (36:24):
I screwed in seats. I remember opening day. We were
literally screwing in seats. It's a brand new ballpark, nineteen
ninety four Wolf Stadium. I know Thad's been in there
many times, but back then it was nice and new,
and we were all down there with drills, just screwing
in seats because the seats weren't in the concrete yet.
I caught bullpens and I threw the first group of

(36:45):
BP my first five years, and that was like another
thing with my playing days, to be able to connect
on that way, on that level. You know, I threw
the first like that, I'll tell you Ryan, the first
group of BP's kind of the show group, you know.
But I had to throw the first group because I
had to go shower and changing it ready for the broadcast.
So when they found out I could throw batting practice,

(37:08):
I mean, they signed me up. Like Louis Tiant was
our pitching coach, the late great Louis Tia. He wasn't
about to throw VP, so he just kept and they
paid me twenty five dollars a day the Dodgers did
to throw batting practice. So you know that I loved it.
I was I was totally content. This is going to
be a great life. I'm here, I'm in the uniform,

(37:28):
I got a locker. I'm not good enough to be
a player, but I'm the closest thing to it. Oh yeah,
and I got to be a broadcaster and figure out
how to do this, which was a train wreck in
the first couple of years.

Speaker 1 (37:39):
Brian, and my guess is we could go around the
horn and tall all these crazy stories of what we
did when we were more junior. But one thing real briefly,
you know, Ryan actually was a broadcast journalism major and
I was an English major.

Speaker 3 (37:50):
So this is the.

Speaker 1 (37:51):
Exact juxtaposition you referred to. I remember when I was
my first day as an assistant general manager for the
Texas Rangers in spring training, one of the minor league
players walked up to me and then general manager John
Daniels and handed us their laundry and said, hey, could
you guys get this done for me and put it
back up in my locker? Because I thought we were
just clubhouse.

Speaker 3 (38:10):
Guys, and so you guys were all so young though,
I mean your prodigies.

Speaker 1 (38:15):
We said, we said, yes, we'll do it, but allow
me to introduce you. This is John Daniels. He's the
general manager of the team I love and that and
that player is Jase Tinkler, who's now the bench coach
of the Minnesota Twins.

Speaker 3 (38:25):
Wow, that's so good. I mean, you guys got you know,
you were young into it. I was young into my world,
but I was not in that big league world yet.
You know, I I had a chance to to be
bad in a place that didn't have the scrutiny. Both
of you guys did at such a young age. You
know that that's the difference between our our careers. You

(38:46):
guys were, you know, in the analytics age. I mean,
you guys were at the forefront of that, and you know,
going the World Series and speaking of that, you know,
when when I was watching this this match Sunday, I
was thinking about you guys. But because obviously through through
my brother's lens, you know, my as a broadcaster, I
celebrate the champions. Of course you have to lay those

(39:08):
words on it, but I immediately always resonate with with
the ones who come up short, and you know, for
you guys in the World Series, and just how that
ended in Saint Louis, and it's just like I can
remember those or even in my brother's own career, you know,
his major league debut is part of one of the
most famous games in baseball where Mark Witten hit four

(39:30):
homers and had twelve RBIs and Mike gave up those
two home runs in the middle and that was his
major league debut, And there's so many bats. There's such
a backstory to like Mike getting to the major leagues
at that moment, but here he is kind of a
footnote in a historical moment. But you know, he's no
footnote in my family and in my life, just as

(39:53):
I can attach to a player who or a pitcher
who gives up a dramatic home run, or Nelly Cruz
unable to make the catch in right field and the
agony that all of you guys felt. And right, I'm
sure you've dealt with your fair share of agony. You know.
It's these these are human beings, and there's more than
just footnotes and historical sporting moments. And I try to

(40:16):
bring a little bit of that sensitivity to the air,
you know. And I learned that from vern Lunquist, and
Lunquist used to always attach these incredible lines to moments
of despair or failure. Jackie Smith dropped a pass in
the in the Super Bowl, remember, and he and Verne
Lunquist said he's got to be the sickest man on earth,

(40:42):
and that was all he needed to say. And because
now you go from all this celebration or anger if
that's your team, to like, oh yeah, that's a that's
a heartbeat underneath that helmet, underneath those those shoulder pads.

Speaker 1 (40:55):
And right, I'm honored that you thought of me in
such a face of epic film Exactly.

Speaker 3 (41:02):
I always think of that that moment for all you guys,
you know, but.

Speaker 1 (41:05):
I'll joking aside, Brian. You know, we had Greg Anthony
on a couple episodes ago and he just talked about
how much more galvanizing the losses ever were than the winds,
Like it is character building, But I think one of
the art forms you're talking about is humanizing those moments.
And you have the ability on the mic to do that.
And you know what's not lost as an executive watching

(41:27):
a sport, I don't know that well. But Janix Sentner
just lost one of the most epic battles he's ever
fought and he has to put a mic in front
of him and give a ten minute speech in a
foreign language right after that, Like that is that is
a remarkable feat for him. Like what he did on
the court was just extremely talented talent on display. But

(41:48):
getting in front of that mic and having the composure
to be gracious in that moment, I just can't imagine.
Because in the face of epic failure, which we've all felt.
If you've been in sports long enough, you felt it
like composing yourself in those moments. I just can't imagine
for a young man. He's a young man and he's
speaking in a foreign language and showing the grace he

(42:09):
did was incredible.

Speaker 3 (42:09):
Yeah, and that's one thing about these these elite tennis players,
you know, they all speak multiple language. It's languages. It's
really incredible. I mean English is probably Center's third language.
He's Italian, but he grew up, you know, two and
a half hours from Munich, up kind of where it's
German speaking northern Italy, so he speaks German, Italian, he
speaks English. He's even thrown a little French in there

(42:31):
it to yeah, you're right, man, And that that was
like that just just like warmed my heart to see,
like the we have so much poor sportsmanship, so many
opportunities for players to be above and set an example,
and so many failures in that. And it kills me

(42:53):
when that happens, because I'm imagining these ten year olds watching,
and you know, you guys see it in all these
youth sports. They model the players ahead of him. And
that's why tennis is in such an incredible position. And
for Yanick Center to go through that and then deliver
that kind of speech, with that kind of class, and
he actually got hosed a couple of times, and he's
got the whole crowd against him the whole match. He
could have just walked out of there and said, you know,

(43:14):
see you guys later, I'm never coming back, or I'll
see you next year. But he was the opposite, and
it was a beautiful moment of They should be a
book written about that, in my opinion, because that that's
what sports is all about and what it can be,
and what a what a ripple effect that's going to
have every coach, every executive. You know, if you want
to get to a player and you've got a player

(43:36):
that's being a bit of an idiot, you know, that's
the kind of thing you show him. You say, look
this guy, your loss or your devastation, even your win.
Even Alcaraz his speech if you watch the first what
two minutes of his speech was all about Janick Center,
the guy you just beat. It wasn't he wasn't pound
in his chest. It was respect. It was so great.

(44:00):
It was just like, man, can we get more of
this in all of our sports?

Speaker 2 (44:05):
Ran When you mentioned that, and I coming up short,
I'm glad you went with the twenty eleven Rangers instead
of the twenty ten Celtics when we were at fourteen
to Kobe Bryant the Lakers in Game seven in the
Staples Center. So I appreciate you going that way with
the reference. But one of the things that I want
want to get into is your different vantage points, the
literal vantage points. When you're broadcasting these games. For baseball,

(44:26):
you're up in the press box. For tennis, you're higher up.
For the NBA, which I'm obviously more familiar with, you're
right there courtside and the best seat in the house.

Speaker 1 (44:34):
What is that like?

Speaker 2 (44:35):
You know, there are any neat stories where you've heard something,
you've seen something, a conversation between a player or an official,
or you know, coaches going back and forth that you say, well,
that was interesting, but that may be on a hot mic.
We're probably not going to get into that on air.

Speaker 3 (44:49):
Yeah, I'd say the first thing that pops in my
mind about that is is, and you know this, Ryan,
because you've sat down there, You've been down there. But
these athletes in the NBA are so big and fast
and strong you feel them running by you when you're
that low. I can remember the first Lebron James game
I ever called. He's sprinting by me with a dribble

(45:12):
and I can feel it in the the on the hardwood.
I can just feel him his steps and he's just
the way he's breathing. It's like it's literally like a
thoroughbread is and I'm going, oh my god, you know,
and he's just and he's flying by me just the
speed at six' eight and two point, Fifty, like how
can a human being move like? That and so that's first,

(45:34):
thing you, know it just it shocks the system because you, know,
baseball you're up. Top you don't really get that. Prospective,
tennis you know you're up top unless you're At wimbledon
and you're down. Low football you're up. Top, hockey you're up.
Top but to be to be able to sit on the,
floor and a lot OF nba teams are moving their broadcasters,
up which is a real shame because you do hear so,
much you can bring so much to an audience based

(45:56):
on just being down. There even you know those minutes
before the, game that scene where all the players are
on the floor warming, up, stretching referees are, there the
whole scene you, know and there's cameras, everywhere and you
kind of break through that little bubble and you can
you can gather some quick intel in the layup. Line,
hey how you feel and how you? Doing talk to an?
Official what are you looking at? Today these two teams

(46:18):
have been. Scrappy it really pays off in a playoff
series in THE nba because you, know these officials do
their homework and you know they advance what the history
has been between certain players a certain, team so and
you know you can get some of that and you
can bring that to the. Broadcast so those are nuggets
that you can. Offer and then you know the speed

(46:39):
of the, game so you're you're seeing. Things you get
blocked a. Lot i'll be, Honest like in THE, nba
you're on the monitor more often Than i'd like to
be just because people are standing. UP i, MEAN i
remember like doing a game At Madison Square garden And
Fat joe there's a call against The knicks And Fat
joe sitting right next to. Me he's like right in

(47:00):
my face asking, me what do you? Do what do you?
Do he's asking why they called a foul on his,
team And i'm trying to call the. Game he's, This
he's twelve inches from my. Face and so those are
the kind of THINGS i think about being on the
floor at AN nba. Game you, know it's just a
it's a scene down. There it's, like And i've done you,

(47:22):
KNOW Nba All Star, game did THREE Nba All Star,
games AND i Did All Star, saturday and, man you
just got famous people all around. You and you, know
when you work With Reggie miller Or Greg anthony or
Stan Van gundy or you, Know charles this, year you,
know everybody wants to be in that. Scene so you
got rappers and singers and. Actors it's just like you

(47:46):
got to put the blinders, up you. KNOW i. CAN
i always remind myself what my vision of it speaking
a booth. PERSPECTIVE i always capture that image in my,
mind And i've had it forever AND i do it
all the time of what it was like overlooking the
minor league baseball field THAT i worked at with fifty

(48:07):
fans on a Rainy tuesday night in the middle Of,
august maybe fifty, Literally AND i just think about, that,
like all, Right i've been there And i've done, that
and Now i'm, here you, know With Tracy morgan sitting
next to, me or you know, Whoever Jason bateman or
whoever it may. Be so those perspectives can add some

(48:31):
nerves and anxiety to your broadcast when you're in those.
Moments the serenity of the booth in tennis and baseball
and hockey football even like that's pretty easy to get
yourself in focus. Mode but, man down on the floor
at AN nba game or our big time college basketball,

(48:52):
game that's another level of concentration to try to be.

Speaker 1 (48:56):
Yourself you, Know, brian you just revealed a character trait
that you have That i've always, admired which is your.
Humility you, know you've just never lost your, grounding your,
appreciation your reverence for your. Brother you know you did
telling your story that you were the bullpen catcher for
him as he was building up to that one. Tryout
but you, KNOW i want to build off. That you,

(49:16):
know one THING i don't think listeners realize is how
much executives tap into broadcasters to get. ADVICE i harken
back to my career WHEN i Left texas AND i
came joined The Minnesota, twins when we were prepping for
WHAT i knew was going to be a, tough a
tough press. CONFERENCE i would Call Evan, grant a good
friend of mine from The dallas, market and, say, HEY

(49:38):
i want you to be in the, room, like ask
me the toughest questions you could ask, me so THAT
i was well prepared for BECAUSE i had a friendship
With evans AND i knew he'd hit me. HARD i
just be curious if you could share with the. Listeners
have you been that type of conciliary to an, executive
to an, owner to a, player even to maybe an
official or a coach that you could share with us

(49:58):
throughout your. Career, YEAH i.

Speaker 3 (50:00):
WON'T i won't name names because you probably wouldn't want,
that but, yes quite often you know managers and general
managers and even even you know like sometimes our Owner Mark,
attanasio who wouldn't mind, Me, Sharon but we talk about
those kind of things and you know how things would
be perceived or at least like the questions THAT i

(50:20):
would have as a journalist about a move that's, made
a trade that's, made or. Whatever AND i don't sugarcoat
those things. Either AND i that's WHEN i KNOW i
can connect with. SOMEONE i can IF i know that
an executive is asking me THAT i know that executive
is on it and at least covering every possible layer

(50:43):
of his. Job so that actually impresses me more WHEN
i get. That but, yeah through the, years you, know
there's been a lot of conversations about you, know even
disagreements Where i've, SAID i just don't like the way
you guys handle. THAT i don't think that was you,
know to give you an, example there was a case
where it required it required a statement from our club

(51:10):
and there was no. Statement and then you, know the
clock's ticking to me being on the, air to our,
audience and there was no. Statement SO i kept saying to, myself,
like all, right somebody's got to tell me what is
THE i need to quote. SOMEBODY i can't just go
on and give my own opinions about. THIS i need
a quote and then we. Can and, so you, know

(51:32):
finally we, did but it, was it was there was
a lot of, hesitance, Uh and then after the FACT
i expressed that, LIKE i just don't think that was properly,
done and you kind of left me and us as
broadcasters in a tough position because we don't, know we
don't we don't even have a baseline to go off
of from the club's perspective or you, know whatever the

(51:58):
perspective would. Be the play didn't speak. Either so there's
been those moments, too AND i think over the, YEARS
i don't, EVER i don't ever like bore my way.
IN i will answer if. Asked you, KNOW i respect
the symbol of the closed, door and that's a really
important THING i would teach younger broadcasters is make sure
you don't walk through closed, doors and you better know

(52:22):
when you're welcome and when your opinion is, welcome and
not to offer. It so many of us just want
to spout out everything that we, think when really we
need to be listening more and then be prepared if.
Asked and so that's kind of been my motto all these,
years and you, KNOW i have on a number of
occasions through especially the last fifteen, years you, know been

(52:44):
able to do that and been asked to do. That
And i'm always nervous to do, that But i'm always
willing to do that, too because it does show that
extra layer of preparation from whoever's on the other side
of that.

Speaker 1 (52:55):
Seat, Brian we're going to let you go after this last.
Question thing we do on Rosterster rings is we ask
the listeners to hit us with what they think is
the most pressing sports topic of the. Day and in
our first, segment we talk to our listeners about the
firing Of Tom thibodeau and maybe on a bigger, stage
just how many head coaches in THE nba who were

(53:17):
on playoff bound teams At Memphis denver lost their jobs
before the playoffs started and how kind of atypical that,
is just as your parting, shot do you have any
perspective on, that and also how that tied into your.
Career your first nine years working for The, brewers you
worked with four or five different, managers then you settle
into a nine year run With Craig. Council how different
is your job when there's volatility in that position relative to.

Speaker 3 (53:41):
Consistency, YEAH i mean it does change a little. BIT
i would say that you know that part of. It
when there is a new voice or new, face it's
up to. You the work starts because it's up to
you to try to learn what the new parameters are
going to be and what the rules are going to
be for the new. Person you, Know and And i'm
close with a lot of these coaches, too Like Mike,

(54:02):
budenholzer AND i go back thirty years to The, spurs
AND i hate what happened To Mike. BUDENHOLZER i don't
think it's. RIGHT i think he's a great. COACH i
hate what happened to him In milwaukee and certainly don't
like what happened to him In. Phoenix but you, know
also that, happens and we step into these spotlights and

(54:22):
we have to deal with that part of it. Too
and you know a lot of these, owners they have
people in their ear that are making helping them make,
decisions and you, know they're trying to sell tickets and
they you, KNOW i think the most important, thing LIKE
i would say the most dramatic thing that's going on
in our industry from your perspective as executives to players to,

(54:47):
broadcasters is the collapse of cable. Television the fact that
we're going into streaming now is having ripple effects throughout the.
Industry and as these cable outlets start to CROs and
as these rsns regional sports networks start to, crumble like
they are at least changing the dynamic on how we

(55:07):
cover these sports and the money that's. Available you, know
the cash cow that these rsns provided for the organizations is.
Over it's just not going to be. There on a national,
level there's still, good big national, contracts especially in THE,
nba which just did a massive contract which did not
include my network, unfortunately but that's still there to some.

(55:29):
Extent but you, know they don't do all the games,
either and they, do they're doing the big markets when they.
Can so how do you get your message and your
product out to the local fan Base and that is
being disrupted in a major, way and it's it's literally being.
Disrupted and how much money you can offer a player
to come play for, you and how much you can

(55:51):
pay and set your budgets for your staff and for
how you do. This SO i can see a lot
of younger and more expensive options getting chances now because
of that. Dynamic SO i and that's it's happening. Now
it's been going on for a few, years and it's
going to be another five eight years before we see

(56:14):
the full breadth of this court cutting, moment which is
one of the most significant moments in broadcasting for, sure
as significant as going from radio to television and really
for the first time in. Ever instead of building up
to the next best, thing we're actually starting to peel

(56:34):
down to a thing that's not as good as it
was because we're we're trying to save money and do things,
cheaper and we're you, know we have we call them
cloud coverage or remote crews where you're not even on.
Site so it's definitely affecting the industry in a major.
WAY i don't think players feel that, yet but they're
they're about to on some. Level and executives certainly feel

(56:56):
it because they know what their budgets look. Like owners
feel it even though their organizations are worth more than
they've ever they've ever. Been you, know every owner who's
bought a team has made tremendous amount of money when he.
Sold SO i would, say like that's the biggest piece right.
Now how to navigate all that and the, organizations, executives

(57:18):
broadcasters who figure that out and understand that dynamic and
accept what's about to happen are going to be the
ones that probably end up on the other. Side and
it's going to be painful though for a lot of.
People he Is Brian.

Speaker 2 (57:31):
Anderson you can listen to him On turner sports where
recovers a number of different. Events we're gonna Let Brian.
Roun he's got to go RECORD nba TWO k is
one of the.

Speaker 3 (57:39):
Voices.

Speaker 2 (57:39):
Brian i'd ask that you give him a plug if
you need an. EXECUTIVE i have some broadcast experience as,
Well so, yeah you do with you And Greg. ANTHONY
i hope IF i keep bringing it, up somebody will
you throw me a. Bone but, anyways, thanks thanks for joining.
Us He's Brian, Anderson I'm ryan. McDonough He's Stad. Levine
that AND i will be right back with you after.
This On rosters D, Ring.

Speaker 1 (58:05):
Welcome back To Roster strings Alongside ran. McDonough I'm Dad.
Levine we just had an opportunity to hear a great
conversation With Brian. Anderson. Ran one thing that jumped out
to me about our conversation was the notion THAT i
brought up With brian about how when owners and coaches
and executives had tapped into him and his perspective on.

(58:26):
That BUT i think what the listener may be surprised
to hear is just how rare it is for us
to do those types of, things because, candidly you just
don't know who you can trust and information is. King
So i'd be curious in your, career how did you approach,
That how did you build your inner, Circle what were
the qualities of the people you put around, yourself and,
how if, ever did you step outside that inner circle

(58:47):
to seek. Advice really good, Question.

Speaker 2 (58:51):
Thad and one of the things THAT i think is
interesting About Brian anderson is he is known as a national,
broadcaster right he talked about The French, open THE, Nba
Major League baseball all. That he does that For Turner
sports on a national, Level but he's also a local
broadcaster with The Milwaukee. Brewers he's done that since two
thousand and, seven and SO i think those two situations

(59:12):
are a little bit. DIFFERENT i felt like a lot
of the local broadcasters WHEN i was with The Boston
celtics or The Phoenix, suns especially THE tv and radio
broadcasters who are around the team not only every, game
but basically every. Practice they fly on the team, planes
they stay at the team, Hotel they have access to
a lot of. Information SO i think there is a
different level of, trust especially when you get to know

(59:34):
those guys and exchange information with. Them that and a
lot of times as you know as an, executive they're
around the team more than you are because if you're out,
scouting if you're traveling all over the country evaluating, players
those guys are. There so a lot of times WHEN
i come back off a scouting, TRIP i talk to
some of, them get your perspective because they, are you,
know somewhat more, independent right than the coaches or players

(59:55):
in the locker room who are riding the rollercoaster of
the wins and losses and may, have you, know their
own different agenda depending on playing time or contract status
or whatever the issue of the day. Is but it's
gotten so, competitive and that's one of the THINGS i
want to get your take on a national, level especially
as far as breaking news stad THAT i didn't WHEN
i was youneral manager of The Phoenix. SUNS i didn't

(01:00:16):
go to national media members that much say, hey here's
what we're thinking about. Doing because in The, twitter instant
reaction social media, age one of the THINGS i was
worried about was it getting out and leaking and screwing
up a deal or having some kind of negative, reactions
say from an owner that would prevent me from doing
what we wanted to.

Speaker 1 (01:00:34):
Do, OH i think you're nailing. IT i, MEAN i
think as that was one of the probably the worst
evolutions of our, jobs was the advent of social media
and just how quickly these things got. POSTED i, remember
and this was one of the probably downpoints of my. Career,
CANDIDLY i was a guest lecturing AT smu sports law

(01:00:55):
class THAT i did once a. Year we had made
a trade with The Detroit, tigers AND i remember to
this day it turned out to be a trade that
didn't work out for our, team but we Traded Ian
kinsler For Prince, fielder and during the time in WHICH
i was in front of the, class we were exchanging,
medicals so you don't want to publicize. It at that,
point we thought this was going to be a, long laborious.

(01:01:16):
Process it was going to take a couple, hours AND
i said to the, Students, HEY i want this to be.
Interactive ask any questions along the. Way at about eighteen
minutes into me, talking somebody to raised their hand and, said,
hey did you just Trade Ian kinsler to The Detroit?
Tigers AND i, said allow me to step out for
one minute and lo and. Behold, unfortunately in that, case

(01:01:37):
it was the worst case. Scenario ian's wife and his
family had read on social media that he had been.
Traded he was a very valued member of The Texas
rangers at that. Time it was a monumental. Trade it
got out because somehow it was, leaked and we had
to deal with the repercussions of, that and rightfully, so
my relationship With Ian kinsler and his relationship with The

(01:01:59):
rangers to years to mend after. That SO i think
we try to do the best we can to communicate
how we try to use members of the media as
partners in, this because they do get access to a
lot of, information and they do have great insights because
they are covering our. Teams they have the finger on
the pulse a. Lot but when you get burned like,
that and when a player gets, burned it's really, devastating

(01:02:21):
and that's never the intent of the. Executive but there's
a lot of red tape you got to go through
before you can actually announce the. Trade oftentimes that doesn't
align with social media getting to handle. THIS i don't
know if you've ever had that type of, experience but
that one clearly colors me to this. DAY i look
back and then and, say, MAN i WISH i could
have done something differently to Prevent ian and his family

(01:02:42):
from experiencing that the way they did.

Speaker 2 (01:02:45):
Well the FAMOUS nba example THAT i wasn't directly involved
in is when The New Orleans, pelicans their Owner George,
schinn was having a hard time financially and on the
verge of. Bankruptcy THE, nba the league office run By David,
starring the commissioner at the, time took over control of
the The, pelicans and The pelicans were in the process
of Trading Chris paul to THE La. Lakers, coincidentally thad

(01:03:05):
when THE nba had The board Of governors meeting In
New York city with owners from all thirty teams around
the table OR i guess twenty nine teams around the
table If David stern counted as one owner with the.
Commissioner and sure, enough because of social, media owners you,
know phone started, buzzing they got, notifications they got text.
Messages and what happened was it was brought To stern's,
attention who's you, know supposedly in charge of signing off

(01:03:28):
on trades like, this That Chris paul was getting traded
From New orleans to The. Lakers the other owners weren't
an uproar because think about, it especially at that Time
fad fifteen or so years, ago a very small market
team trading with the MIGHTY La, lakers and some of
the small and mid market, owners as you can, imagine
did not really like the optics of. That so the
guys in the room told me That David stern essentially

(01:03:48):
shut it down because of. That they, said, no it's been,
reported it's going to, happen and he, said, no it's.
Not you, Know i'm in charge of The, pelicans that
that deal's not going to, happen and that became a
whole nother. Story so that's SOMETHING i want to dive
into a little bit and bring our listeners inside that
Because i'm curious from A Major League baseball, perspective how
these deals actually are. Finalized because one of the challenges

(01:04:10):
in THE nba is just because used to Be Adrian
morjanowski now Cham sherania the top, newsbreakers just because they
tweeted out doesn't mean it's. Done in, fact it's not
even close to done at that. Point it needs to
happen in THE nba is all the teams involved need
to get on a phone call with the league office
to confirm every single term of the, trade and then
the process starts where you get information from the players you're,

(01:04:32):
receiving you call the players you're sending out and you
wish them, well and then in the off season that
in THE, nba the players have up to a week
to report to your market and pass a medical. Physical
so just because you see it on social, media in THE,
nba there are a lot of steps for the deal
to actually get done and finalize. Legally AND i think
a lot of fans either they don't understand that or

(01:04:54):
they don't care about, That but that is a reality
in THE, nba AND i think as executives that can
put guys like us in a very difficult position because
you legally cannot comment until the deal is.

Speaker 1 (01:05:03):
Finalized well, right you, know as AN nba, fan but
not an. EXECUTIVE i think didn't we see that with
The lakers, deal which ultimately Got ki bosh because somebody
failed as a medical after the, fact and so you
have to, then from an executive, standpoint pick up the.
PIECES a player now knows that he was being. Traded
multiple players in that deal knew they were being. Traded

(01:05:25):
they didn't feel devalued by the. Franchise but you know
the additional thing we see a lot In Major League,
baseball AND i know it was made known With Bradley
beal as kind of a little bit of an. EXCEPTION
a lot of guys In Major League baseball have no
trade clauses or what are called limited no trade. Clauses
so from an executive, perspective they maybe can't get traded
to five, teams and As Murphy's law would always play it,

(01:05:45):
out those tend to be the teams that may be
very interested in that. Player and so in addition to
exchanging medical, information oftentimes you're on the phone with the
agent to, say this player has a no trade clause
or limited no trade? Clause would he waive? That and
the answer is given. Consideration so now you're negotiating value
into their contract so that that inspires them to be

(01:06:07):
willing to accept the trade that otherwise they. Wouldn't but
all this requires a lot of. Time it's a lot
of back and, forth and meanwhile somebody is getting that out.

Speaker 3 (01:06:16):
There.

Speaker 1 (01:06:17):
Now it gone are the days where you wait overnight
and read it in the sports. Page anyone could be
a member of the, media anyone can post that it's
a family, member it's a member of the, agency, somehow
it's part of the league, office somehow gets a hold of.
It and there's just so many points of. Leakage AND
i think the challenge on the decision making side for executives,
is once you get, burned your tendency is to narrow your.

(01:06:41):
Circle but the more you narrow your circle as an,
executive the less morale you have of the people around,
you because now they're being. Excluded AND i always felt
the worst thing to do was to have your leadership
team have to read in the equivalent Of Major League
baseball trade rumors that a trade just was made and
they had no idea about. IT i think there's nothing

(01:07:02):
more disenfranchising about. That so as executives were always walking
that balance of wanting to provide information for the people
with whom we work and also knowing by so doing
your enhancing the risk of a leak taking. Place and
once that leak takes, place you live in this paranoia
of where did it come from and from whom in
every member of the media has journalistic integrity and they're

(01:07:23):
not going to share that with, You so you then
are making decisions in the future that are a little
bit more. GUARDED i always tried to ward that off
and say IF i got, burned it was not shame
on me or shame on somebody. ELSE i had to
continue to include people in the decision making. PROCESS i
just knew that meant we were making better decisions and
we were building. Morale and you just hoped as best
you could that you were the front office that had

(01:07:44):
fewer leaks than the rest of the LEAK.

Speaker 2 (01:07:46):
I think you have to trust your, staff especially for
the young men and women who are starting out working
fifteen hour, days year round and not making a lot
of money. Fad they want to feel, included. Right they're
not doing it for the, paycheck especially at that point
in their. Career they're doing it because they enjoy working
in pro. Sports, yes obviously they want to climb the,
ladder have more, responsibilities make more, money and all, that
but they really want to feel like they're a part of.

Speaker 1 (01:08:08):
It and you're.

Speaker 2 (01:08:08):
Right when they see it come across social media that
their team did, something especially they've been working on it even,
peripherally that is a blow to. Morale but on the other,
hand if there is a leak and the deal is
not agreed upon by all, parties it can blow up the.
Deal see weigh that risk as an. Executive And i'm
glad you brought up The Mark williams failed trade with
The lakers because that was a very interesting. Example so

(01:08:29):
as a reminder of our, listeners The Luca downstage to
The lakers trade happened about five days before the trade.
Deadline and part of the reason that not only THE
La lakers did that deal when they, did but The
mavericks did it was so those teams could then do
other deals because it's stripped down the. Roster there were
multiple players, Involved Max, Christy Mark Keith morris going out you,
know FROM la To, dallas along With Anthony, davis and

(01:08:52):
then you know a number of players coming back in
addition To Luca, dontich you, know from From dallas TO.
La so so that you, know there was a number
of reasons on both sides to do that deal. Early
but then what happened that with The Mark williams, deal
When charlotte agreed to Trade Mark, williams a young center
out Of duke who's in his third year to THE La.
Lakers that was just before the, deadline and so by

(01:09:14):
the Time Mark williams reported To Los angeles and The,
lakers Who i'm sure had seen their medical. Records and
keep in, mind, folks that there are hippo laws and
medical privacy acts and things in place where The lakers
or The hornets they can't just go out and say
exactly what. Happened they WOULDN'T i think even if they,
could but legally they. Can't they could get sued for.
That so what happened to that there was the deal

(01:09:36):
was agreed upon obviously prior to the trade. Deadline but
then by the Time williams got From charlotte TO la
The lakers doctors and specialists got their hands on, them
something was. Wrong and the challenge, is now that the
trade deadline is coming, gone they can't amend, it they
can't fix, it and so really history will judge did
The lakers do the right thing that as we sit
here today that deal happened about three or four months.

(01:09:57):
Ago we don't, know because who, knows you, know how
Healthy Mark williams is going to, be what the rest
of his career is going to look. LIKE i think
we do know for certain now that it hurt The
lakers in the short term BECAUSE i thought the biggest
hole on their roster with two Future hall Of famers
In Lebron james And Luka, donsich was that center. Position
and you saw in the first round of the playoffs
against The, timberwolves a, big physical team A Jj, reddick

(01:10:19):
the first year head coach IN, la was not real
confident going With Jackson. Hayes he tried to go small a,
lot and The wolves just beat up The. Lakers lakers
had no answer for that. Inside so has that ever
happened In Major League baseball where there's a deal agreed
upon right around the deadline and then you, know after the,
deadline either for medical reasons or some other, reason it is.

Speaker 1 (01:10:38):
Unwomped, yes the answer is, yes.

Speaker 3 (01:10:43):
You.

Speaker 1 (01:10:43):
Know IT'S i think there are fewer safeguards In Major
League baseball than what you're referencing in the NBAS so
point point of, fact when we made, trades we had
to have medical clearance in advance of the. Trade once
we could lay physical hands on, players we had a
very finite win to be able to make an amendment
if we wanted to that. Deal but the point you

(01:11:05):
just made is the biggest, issue which was so many
of the, TRADES i think it's over sixty five percent
of trades In Major League baseball are made within an
hour of the trade. Deadline so there's really no fundamental
recourse you can have other than just sending the player.
Back but by that, point you had made the acquisition
because you thought it would competitively really enhanced your, team

(01:11:25):
and so you're reluctant to do. So and, furthermore if
that player, comes let's say he's a, pitcher and he
just goes and throws on the side just to warm,
Up like once he throws a, pitch he's now your
responsibility because you've cleared him, medically and then there is
enough of a gray area as to when did he
actually contract the injury and we had signed off on,
Him so the safeguards are really. Limited and in, baseball

(01:11:49):
maybe different than some other, sports it's such a deadline
driven sport such that really there's no amends to be
made at that, point and you're just kind of like
holding on in hope that they. Rebounds but the facts
of the, facts you have two months. Left you needed
him for the whole two month, run and now he's
going to be down for at least fifteen, days and
you got to navigate some pretty choppy waters at that.

Speaker 2 (01:12:09):
Point, well the other big issue, too in addition to
what you did not get what you thought you were
getting but then didn't get when the deal is, unwound
is how do you manage those players then coming back
because they know their, families know their, agents know the,
fans media and everybody else knows that you just tried
to send them. Out now they're back ninety plus percent
of the, time maybe ninety nine percent of the time

(01:12:30):
that they're not really happy about that outcome because they
know you just gave up on me and you wanted
something else or a combination or other players thought were,
better but now something happened and we have to come.
Back so, yeah there's a lot of internal tension and,
management and from my, experience those relationships usually don't last that, long.
RIGHT i think it's rare where a player is traded
and then comes back and then goes on to have

(01:12:50):
a long career with that. Team usually for, me that's
the beginning of the. End where if a guy was you,
know you tried to trade them that didn't work out
for some. Reason usually it's time to move. ON i
think from all parties, involved you have to cut the
cord and let the guy, run even if it's the
next offseason or the next available opportunity to trade.

Speaker 1 (01:13:09):
Him, well And, RYAN i think this is a longer
conversation and maybe this is how we get out of
this segment, here which is we talk in sports about
the name on the front of the, jersey which is
the team, name and then juxtaposed against the name on the. Back,
well when you do these types of things and you
put a player in a, Trade i'm thinking Of Dalton
connect and other players that were involved in that. Deal

(01:13:30):
on the other side Of Mark, williams they know you're
prepared to trade. Him now all of a, sudden you've
lost a little bit of your footing to ask that
type of player to really only focus on the name
on the front because you've just now told them that
they were expendable in some. Regards SO i think what
you're telling the listeners now is let's keep an eye
On Mark. Williams so let's keep an eye In Dalton.
Connect And i'm sure there are other players involved in

(01:13:50):
that deal to see if they're still part of their
existing franchises moving. Forward but maybe that's a conversation for
our next episode On rosters To rings when we talk
about the juxta position of the name on the front
and the name of the, back and how you build
that team unity when you're talking about individuals' careers in their.
Lives thank you to everyone for. Listening we look forward
to seeing you soon On rosters To. Rings please join

(01:14:16):
me host That, Levine ryan McDonough and other general managers
every week For roster Sy rings On, Apple, spotify or
wherever you get your. Podcasts

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