Communication and Championship Culture with Michael Young

Thad is joined by former Texas Ranger GM Jon Daniels who is stepping in while Ryan is away. Thad and Jon welcome Texas Ranger legend Michael Young to the show who shares an amazing story of the balance of what a player has to consider for himself vs the needs of his team. Also Jon tells his story of becoming an MLB GM at the age of 28.

 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to Rosters to Rings. I'm Thad Levigne and I'm
bringing alongside me John Daniels as our guest host for
the next few shows. We've got an awesome show lined up.
We've got Michael Young joining us in the second segment
to talk about his career and championship ideals throughout his
time playing baseball. But I want to give a quick
introduction about John Daniels for those who don't know. He

(00:28):
was hired in two thousand and five to be the
general manager of the Texas Rangers, a role he served
for seventeen years, which is an exceptionally rarefied air in
terms of a tenure. He took the team to two
World Series in twenty ten and twenty eleven, and had
a run of six playoff appearances in seven seasons. He
was also the architect of the twenty twenty three championship

(00:49):
Texas Rangers incredible. A lot is made of JD being
the youngest general manager ever hired, which I think overshadows
the fact that in twenty twelve, Yahoo listed him as
the fourteenth most handsome general manager. Doesn't get nearly as
much airtime as it should. In addition to that, I
just want to say that in life, you can't always

(01:10):
pick your bosses, but if I forever was going to again,
it would be JD. He's exceptionally creative, intelligent, inclusive, and
really funny and motivates the heck out of the people
who works were an awesome friend. I thank him so
much for joining the show. JD welcome on board as
our co host for the next couple of shows of
Rosters to Rings.

Speaker 2 (01:31):
Thatt is thank you man over the top introduction. I
appreciate it. I think Chris Young and a few others
had had a bit of a hand to do with
the twenty three team, But no, thank you, mam. I
what do they say in sports talk radio longtime listener,
first time callers. I'm a longtime listener and fan of
the show since since you've launched, and honored to be

(01:54):
a guest host and excited to talk to Michael and
chat a little bit.

Speaker 3 (01:59):
Well.

Speaker 1 (01:59):
Great. One of our traditions on Rosters to Rings is
we ask people kind of their sports origin story. It's
the it's the tie that binds all of us together.
So sure with the listeners like how did you become
a passionate sports fan and walk us through how you
got your first job in the game.

Speaker 3 (02:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:14):
So I grew up in New York. I grew up
in Queens, went to high school and in Manhattan, had
a little over an hour commute, and I would always listen.
I had my good old Sony Walkman. I would always
listen to w FA N Mike and the mad Dog.
Huge sports fan, Mets, Giants, Knicks, Rangers primarily there in

(02:36):
the city mid eighties. It was a fun time, especially,
you know, Mets and and Giants won won championships, and
a lot of young, exciting players. My mom was a
big baseball fan, big Mets fan, so she would actually
was the one that would take me to games and
and do that. And then I became a huge fantasy

(02:57):
sports fan, Baseball primarily, then all in basketball as well.
And I was always as interested. Some people might might
say this a little dorky. I don't know, you'll have
to tell me, but I was always just as interested
in like the transactions and and how rosters were built,
and as I was you know, the game. I learned
pretty early on. I wasn't gonna play at any sort

(03:19):
of advanced level despite my obvious physical prowess, and so,
but I just I just followed it passionately.

Speaker 3 (03:27):
And then.

Speaker 2 (03:29):
My my friend group was similar love the game. I
loved sports. In college, I had a one roommate that
we talked very regularly about pursuing jobs in sports. We
talked a lot about the NFL with the salary cap.
We thought that might be a path. I didn't think
baseball was really an option there was, you know, I
wasn't aware of this before theo Epstein and and you know,

(03:52):
I guess Dave Dombrowski, Brian Cashman, we're just kind of
starting to come of age. But I wasn't really aware
of their store. This friend was, however, was convinced he
could get into the game, and so he ended up
getting an internship with the Philadelphia Phillies and then later
with Major League Baseball. And I went to work for
outside of Baseball and for the parent company of Duncan

(04:14):
Donuts in Boston, and this friend called me regularly and
told me about his job and asked for help. And
so one day he said, Hey, why don't you come
with me to the winter meetings. I said, all right,
So I took a couple of vacation days and I
went out with him to Anaheims in nineteen ninety nine,
stayed with him and met, you know, at two in
the morning having I'm sure these other guys don't remember this,

(04:37):
but we're having drinks with like Peter Gammons and Bruce
Bochie and George Brett in the Anaheim Marriott Lobby. Thought
that I thought that was like totally normal at this point.
And a year later, I was fortunate enough to interview
for a couple of internships. One with the Boston Red Sox.
Ben Sherrington interviewed me, I totally really, you know, wet

(05:01):
the bed on this interview. I choked, was very nervous,
and the internship ended up going to somebody you might
know as Jed Hoyer. So Jed beat me out for
that job. But I got the other interview. I interviewed
with the Colorado Rockies and Josh Burns ended up hiring me,
and I got to know several very notable folks in

(05:23):
the game there, including yourself, who you know that really
helped train me and developed me. But I skipped the
other part where my college roommate, the guy that got
me into this game was was a j preller and
so you know, the odds of two major league gms
that didn't play rooming together in college and pursue the

(05:44):
odds got to be pretty pretty small. But yeah, it was.
It was a lot of fun getting in a lot
of fun working with all you guys.

Speaker 1 (05:52):
So you know, little funny stories. When I left Colorado
to join you in Texas, somebody cleaned out my desk
and they sent me a note that was from a
Perspective intern who was looking for a job, who apparently
I never replied to. His name was Andrew Friedman. So
it's incredible how all of our stories are linked, as
we all started our careers as interns at some point.

(06:13):
And for the listeners, Bench Arrington's now the GM of
the Pittsburgh Pirates. Jed Hoyer's now the GM of the
Chicago Cubs, and these are all people that were so
involved in obviously aj prellers with the San Diego Padres.
They all touched your life. I'd like you to take
the listener inside your recollection of October fourth, two thousand
and five, the day that you were named general manager

(06:34):
of the Texas Rangers.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
Yeah. So at the end of the five season, as
we would every year, John Hart was the general manager
was my boss. I was with the Rangers for four
years at this point, and a pretty insane rise, like
just a career path at a pace of getting involved

(06:58):
and inclusion and decisions that is just very very rare.
And a lot of it was because John took a
liking to me, trusted me, and gave me a lot
of opportunity really before I deserved it. But you know,
hopefully I didn't screw it up too bad, and he
kept giving me more and and and so at the
end of the season, what John would have me do

(07:18):
is prepare a little synopsis of the year and then
a synopsis of kind of some of the major decisions
we had coming up that off season, and we would
go to the owner's office. And Tom Hicks owned the club,
and he was in Dallas, and it was it was
Tom Hicks and his son, Tom Junior, John hart Buck
Showalter was a manager, Oral Herscheizer was the pitching coach,

(07:40):
was very involved. He was there, and then Dom Cheaty
and Tom kind of oversaw scouting development. John had me
kind of overseeing the operation side, you know, agents, transactions,
et cetera. And and so we would walk through the
end of season meeting and and what decisions we had

(08:00):
to make, and it felt like John was deferring to
me more than he typically would, but I didn't think
anything of it. And so afterwards, I was going to
go back to the office and John just kind of
shook my hand and just almost over the top. It
was like a great job today, Jady, great job. I
was like, all right, And I didn't think I did
anything special, but okay, And so go back to the
office and I have an email when I get to

(08:21):
the office and it's from Tom Hicks and the email says, JD,
call me when you get this. So I called John first,
you know, my boss, and was very unusual. No one
would had just was with him. And I said John, hey,
I just got this email from Tom. And he goes, JD.
I just resigned. I recommended to Tom that he hire

(08:42):
you as the next GM. I've got to go talk
to Sandy. Good luck. I'll talk to you soon. I'm like,
what just happened. Sandy is John's wife, and so, you know,
I'm scrambling and I start to put together all this
information and printing out you know, rosters and budgets and payrolls,

(09:04):
and I'm going to an interview for the GM job,
and then I kind of as I'm thinking about, I'm like,
you know what, Tom is not a guy that wants
to sit down and go through a binder of information.
Tom wants to be conversational. He wants big, bigger picture vision.
And so I start thinking about I don't sleep that night.
I talked to you know, various friends. I think I
think I called you, I think I called aj Aj

(09:28):
was working with us at the time, and various don't sleep.
Going the next day and I think I'm interviewing for
this job, and five minutes into the conversation, it's clear
that Tom is offering me this position. And I remember
saying to him, Tom, as as like your general assistant GM,
I feel an obligation to recommend that you interview some

(09:48):
other people. And he said, no, this is what I
want to do. And then he had like, I think
the blueprint of an offer based on what you know
when THEO was hired with Boston, and I told him like,
I'm not going to negotiate that. I'm twenty years old,
I'm you know, swimming in student dead. I'm thrilled to

(10:10):
even have this opportunity and so he said, all right, well,
let's let's call the press conference for an hour from now,
like peace, Can I call my dad and my wife
and so, and then on the phone with Robin. Her
birthday is October sixth, and we had a vacation planned

(10:32):
that we then had to cancel. We didn't have to,
I guess, but I did cancel it. And she still
jokes with me to this day that I've never We've
never we're gonna go to I think to Rio. We've
never gone. So she's still I think she still has
that on her list of things that I've got to fulfill.
But yeah, wild, I mean I was. I was not

(10:52):
even remotely prepared for it, but also not stupid enough
to turn down that kind of opportunity.

Speaker 1 (10:58):
You know, I just would tell you, as somebody who
is blessed to work with you for eleven years and
has been a friend for much longer. It's a wild story.
I mean that just probably doesn't happen anymore. The net
of it is, a twenty eight year old person was
put in charge of a major league franchise with you know,
you know, a seventy five million dollars payroll that then
turned into one hundred and fifty million dollars payroll soon thereafter.

(11:21):
But you were the exact right guy to get that opportunity.
John saw something and you Tom saw something in you,
and they were dead right. You ended up doing absolutely
tremendously wonderful things for that franchise. You transformed that fan base,
and you did so much for the rest of us
who got a chance to work with you. So I
think they nailed it. I'm not sure they did it
exactly textbook, but they nailed the ultimate read in the room,

(11:45):
which was their judgment was sounded putting you in that position.

Speaker 3 (11:48):
So well.

Speaker 1 (11:49):
Coming up right after the break, we've got Michael Young
joining us, a person who was, if JD was the
heart and soul of that team. Michael was the captain
of the club that went to the playoffs in six
of seven years, and we're going to hear from him
right after the break here on roster'ster Rings. Welcome back

(12:13):
to rosterst Rings. We are fired up to bring on
Michael Young as our next guest. Let me tell you
a little bit about Michael. Michael played fourteen seasons with
the Texas Rangers, Philadelphia Phillies, and Dodgers ten of those seasons,
Michael posted over one hundred and fifty five games played,
which is a pretty remarkable feed in and of itself,
but additionally, he had three hundred and seventy five hits.

(12:35):
He was a career three hundred hitter. Michael posted six
seasons in which he had more than two hundred hits,
leading the league twice. Just as a point of reference,
in twenty twenty four, only two hitters in the entire
major leagues had more than two hundred hits. Michael did
it six times, seven time All Star, five times, he
received MVP votes. He was a batting champion, an MVP

(12:57):
of the All Star Game, a goal glove winner, one
of the most universally respected players that I've ever had
a chance to watch play, and the player who perfectly
embodied what it meant to be a captain. Michael, Welcome
to Rosters, to rings.

Speaker 3 (13:10):
Thanks Dad, appreciate you having me, buddy.

Speaker 1 (13:12):
Thank you, hey, Michael. To start off the conversation, let's
rewind to nineteen ninety seven. Tell us what it was
like in the young household for the draft. In nineteen
ninety seven, you get selected in the fifth round by
the Toronto Blue jays. What was the atmosphere in the house.
What were your expectations going into that night.

Speaker 3 (13:29):
Well, I was still at school. Actually we were on
the quarter system, so for us at UCSB, it ran
into the beginning of June. I just finished a final
and it was so weird. I knew that day was
the draft. I went back to my apartment. My roommate
who was the UCSB team manager, who was my best
friend since my freshman year, was there, and my girlfriend

(13:51):
who's my wife at the time, was also there. After
the final, I went and took a nap. Christina came
and woke me upisode you got a phone call, and
I'm like, yeah, I'll call him back late, totally forgot
what day it was, and she said, it's some guy
from Toronto and I just that was hopped out. Talked
to Bill Moore, who was the scout drafted me, and
so my folks weren't there. Nobody was there, just those
two people, And honestly, looking back, that's kind of the

(14:13):
way I would have preferred it. Seeing the way it's
done now, it's super cool the way these guys are
surrounded by family and friends. But for me at the time,
it was very representative of where I was in my career,
in my life, and it was a pretty fun day.

Speaker 1 (14:24):
Michael, did you have do you recalled having any expectations?
Were you expecting to go right around there in the draft?

Speaker 3 (14:31):
Did?

Speaker 1 (14:31):
Did you have an advisor at the time?

Speaker 3 (14:33):
I did. I forgot his name. Actually, true story. I
ended up switching agents probably about four months after I
after I signed nothing personal. Just didn't think it was
the right move and I didn't really need one, to
be honest at the time, and you know, it was
so simple then I knew I was going to sign. Fortunately,

(14:55):
the guy who got drafted for me in the sixth
round was a friend of mine. He also went to
college California. I knew him previously and basically we kind
of shared where we were, where our bonus offers were
at that point, so I basically negotiated my own bonus.
He signed before me. I want a little bit more
than him to sign. Got on a plane. That was it.

Speaker 1 (15:12):
Just as a point of reference for our listeners, Michael
has to be one of the most successful players to
ever get selected in the fifth round. A tremendous career
after you know, keep in mind there were fifty rounds
in the draft at that point, right, Michael, So you
know the number of players that you outperformed that got
selected ahead of you is a significant list, and it's
a hell of an accomplishment getting picked in the fifth round,

(15:34):
you know, out of the hard scrabble University of California,
Santa Barbera. I mean, overcoming the challenges there could have
must have been pretty daunted.

Speaker 3 (15:42):
It was hard. I mean there were occasional days where
clouds were in the sky and I had to drag
myself out of my apartment and go go go to
class and go to practice. But to go back to
your previous question, yeah, right around the fifth round, it's
kind of where I expected to be drafted, and I
was totally found with that. At the time, I knew
I felt like I was capable of more. But to me,
it didn't really matter. I knew that once we all signed,
it's a matter of going out and playing well. If

(16:03):
you play well, you get moved up and you get
a chance to play in the big leagues.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
Michael. Fast forward, you're in the Toronto system. It's a
loaded group. You get Vernon Wells and a bunch of
middle infielders that you're competing with playing with curious what
that was like. But also then you get traded a
couple of years into your tenure there, and how did
that new strike you.

Speaker 3 (16:24):
I was I was shocked, I really was. At that point.
I just wanted to play in the big weies with
the Blue Jays, simply because that's all I knew got
drafted by and the minor league instructors with the Blue
Jes have said this forever, were absolutely incredible. It was
work after work after work. They provided an environment where
competition was really accepted. I mean, I had some really
close relationships with our instructors there, and they would just

(16:44):
flat it remind me that I was competing with the
other middle infielders that were there, Sayesarus Turists and Joe
Lawrence and Felipe Lopez and Bran Abernathy and there was
a few others. And Chris Woodward, you know, it was
one of them. He's a few years ahead of me,
but he was one of them. And we would do
drills like agility drills for time. We would do drills
and I would want to beat them every single time.

(17:05):
It provided this incredible competitive environment. We were all friends,
but those friends those friendships had limits when it came
time to really get down and compete.

Speaker 2 (17:14):
I'm curious on that piece, on the competitive nature of that.
Do you think that was already hardwired into you as
a kid or being with those other future big leaguers
that fuel that a bit.

Speaker 3 (17:28):
I think it was hardwired in there. And then once
I kind of got in that environment, I knew I
was exactly where I wanted to be in my life.
It really kind of said this is incredible, Like I
love this. It's early in the morning. We're doing this
stuff for time. And I felt like, honestly, like I
didn't have anything against them personally, but I sort of did,

(17:49):
and I can't. I'm not trying to be a jerk
when I say that, but you know, it's a funny thing.
You start getting ingrained by what it means to really
be a teammate too, because once the game starts is
Terrist was my double play partner, became one of my
good friends. Matter of fact, we were the first non

(18:09):
Latin Latino in American roommate ever that the Blue Jays
put together. We were so close in spring training. They
always kept guys kind of separate, and yet he was
one of my main my main competition. We were together
all the time, playing the same positions. We flip fop
from short and second, and I really wanted him to
play well. I never had this moment where I'm like,
I don't want him to perform. I really want him

(18:30):
to play well because I love the kid. I love
the guy. He was a good buddy of mine. But
it made me realize that it doesn't have that competition
can be this this really cool thing where you kind
of try and get the most out of yourself while
also wanting the best for other people.

Speaker 1 (18:44):
Michael, That's one observation I'd have about watching you play
at the major league level is I kind of refer
to those types of players as the heart and soul guys,
the guys who somehow get the best out of their
teammates in addition to perform at very high levels. And
I think it's very rare to have that ability. But
it's also even more rare to be selfless enough to
actually invest in people and try try to raise the

(19:06):
standards of excellence. Once again, like we've had a chance
to meet your parents, tell the listeners a little bit
about your upbringing and why you feel you were that
type of person because you brought it every day to
the state.

Speaker 3 (19:19):
Yeah, my dad was a construction worker, my mom was
a elementary school secretary. They both worked all the time.
So I'm no different than most. I think that, you know,
having a bit of a blue collar background with your
parents is something that I really appreciated and I got,
you know, kind of a first hand look at what
hard work meant. So yeah, but I don't say that

(19:40):
to kind of like get praise. I'm pretty sure most
of us are like that, and I think we all
really really learned from it. It's this really, you know,
these learning moments that were unspoken, just kind of watching
them go about their jobs and come home and reinvest
in the family the second that their jobs were done
kind of give me a bit of a blueprint for
what I felt like my life was going to be.

Speaker 1 (19:59):
Like another thing that jumps to mind is like just
the reality that people don't realize is like part of
the reality of your life was that any day you
could wake up and someone could tell you you're playing
for a different team. Like that's not something most people
can relate to. Most people have relatively good jurisdiction over
where they're going to be employed tomorrow. It's the same
as today. But you wake up one day and all

(20:21):
of a sudden, you're being taken away from all these
guys that you've developed friendships with, all these coaches who
you respect, this competitive environment that you've created, your vision
playing with those guys in the big leagues. Now you're
a Texas Rangers. So now fast forward to showing up
in Arlington and you walk into a clubhouse that was
chock full of veterans. I looked at that team, I

(20:42):
was just shocked. I mean, sure, it's Pad Rodriguez, Alex Rodriguez,
Ruben Sierra, Rafael pal Merrow. But then some of the
guys who were actually like the extra guys were like
Ken Kevin Eddie, Rusty Greer, Andres Galarraga. How is it
being a rookie amongst so many established veterans.

Speaker 3 (20:57):
It was awesome. I mean, I look with that two
thousand and one team with a lot of funness. Two
thousand and two is a little bit different, but two
thousand and one I really have like a really special
place in my heart for those guys. Randy Vallardi was
hitting three point forty when he yanked a hamstring, and
I got called up, and I wasn't setting the world

(21:18):
on fire when I got called up, and all of
a sudden, Randy's getting healthier. And you know, I think
my dad had this brilliant idea of approaching Doug Melvin
in the stands at Anaheim to introduce himself. Doug was
our GM at the time, and you know, Doug's like, hey,
have you been to Texas? Shit, And my dad thought
this would be a good idea. Well, you know, we
don't know when he's gonna get sent down, so we're
trying to figure out if we should plan a trip,

(21:38):
basically like looking for inside dope. He just met the guy,
and then Doug basically told him, he said, go ahead
and plan your trip. But when Randy came off, Doug
basically told him that I was going to play. We
were already out of the race, and Randy put an
arm around me. And I don't know if I would
have been able to do that if I was hitting
three forty with the young guy taking taking their job.

(22:00):
And now Randy eventually got traded to the Yankees and
played in the World Series that year, But I'll never
forget that it really stuck out of my mind. I mean,
for Randy to be thirty eight years old clearly had
a mean competitive streak, to be that good that late
in his career and demanded that much of himself, and
to treat me that way always really stood out. Rubin
Sierra was great. He played on my team in Triple A.

(22:20):
He gave me four effervescent colored suits that year, which
were they literally would change colors when you moved. I
get into my best I get him to my best
friend growing up in La. He wearsn't for Halloween to
this day.

Speaker 1 (22:38):
Was Ruben singing at the time.

Speaker 3 (22:39):
Also, he was I mean talented singer. Yeah, absolutely, Yeah.
He would sit by me on the bus sometimes in
Triple A and start belting it out. But it was
really cool. It was a cool group. Like you said,
the veterans, and like the resumes at that point were
were pretty incredible. Gallaraga, Kaminady obviously, Pudje, Alex and Juan
and Kenedy was great to he. I remember him spring training.

(23:02):
He picked me up. I didn't know he was coming
to my apartment. I was by myself. Picks me up
and it's me him and his sponsor or in the
car and we go to the sushi joint. Again, I
had no idea he was coming to my house to
pick me up, but camp Cammedy showed up and I
hopped in and we went to a restaurant, sushi joint,
and he got very upset with our with our waiter

(23:23):
because they didn't have angel hair pasta to serve him.
So I had to explain explain to him that he
in fact chose that restaurant and they're not going to
have that there. So that was That was a fun day.
But I mean it's again it's it's story after story
with that group was really really cool. Wouldn't traded for.

Speaker 2 (23:38):
The world, along with your humility one of the things
that stands out even and that's talking about that one team,
and he kind of made a joke about the two team,
but your ability to like pull remember the positives and
pull the positives of even a challenging situation, so that
those were not very competitive team, very talented in some ways,
not competitive, And I guess the fast forward to you know,

(24:01):
when you're the veteran on the team and I'm just curious,
how did you go about trying to pay some of
those things forward.

Speaker 3 (24:08):
Yeah. Again, a lot of it is just learned learned
kind of things, and a lot of it being a
young player with that group. It's the example of Randy
all Right, learning by the good things that have happened
to me, and then also keeping my eyes and ears
open enough to learn what not to do. And there
were plenty of those examples too. So by the time
that two thousand and kind of four rolled around, Alice

(24:29):
got traded to create a bit of a vacuum. I
don't think that was necessarily a long in my career
to being a you know, you know, leader would have
been the obvious thing. I was only my fourth year.
I think I was actually pre arb at that point.
So but you sometimes you just feel eyes on you
a little bit and it's like, okay, like this is
the way it's going to be this year. And the

(24:49):
older guys we had in that group and four with
the Brian, Jordan e Y, Kenny, Jeff Nelson, they really
pushed me into that role in a good way. So
that was great. I started realizing the things that kind
of were given to me and I said, okay, I'm
going to be the same way one I'm gonna be
me I'm going to be myself. I'm not going to
push this thing into a different different direction. Again, that
was from a lot of these older guys that I

(25:10):
mentioned who really encouraged me just to be myself, and
then always kind of it just kind of happened a
bit organically at that point, where I would walk into
the clubhouse every day with an idea of what I
needed to do, have a plan where in spring training
a regular season, this is what I have to do today.
If I'm struggling, there are certain things I really want
to attack. And then my other eye is on somebody
I got to get with who will just be having

(25:31):
just a bit of a teammate awareness and someone who
might be going through a tough time. Maybe I should
get with them a little bit, or someone who's on
fire and I'm not, and I need to ask a
question about how to get myself going, whatever the case
may be. That was kind of my bit of my mantra,
kind of one eye on myself and one eye on
everybody else.

Speaker 2 (25:48):
And you you you brushed past it there, but I
feel like you need to color in that opening. Man
And when Alex Rodriguez is traded prior to the fourth
season on Hart was a GM, I was the assistant GM,
and we literally trade. The trade was a week before
spring training, if that right, it might have been in
days before spring training. And he was the only clear

(26:11):
cut major league caliber starting shortstop on the club, right,
And so we Alfonso Soriano comes back in the team.
We have two all stars second basement, and and you
and Soriano many Alexander's on the club more of a
utility player at that point in his career. And I
mean literally, you know, you have a decent team going
to spring training without a without a starting shortstop, and

(26:34):
uh and sorry, wanted no part in it.

Speaker 1 (26:36):
Right.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
He was going to be a free agent a year
or so later, and understandably so, and you know, I
know you went into Bucks office and you know, volunteered
to move and you were an outstanding second basem end
up winning a goal club at shortstop as well. But curious,
just looking back on it now, your thoughts on that
decision and how it came about.

Speaker 3 (26:57):
It was? It was really long. That was my first
with the switching positions thing, and not to take too long,
but Alex's was going to get traded, impossible, right, That
was basically a kind of a done deal and the
Player Association got involved. But Buck called me before that
deal went down, because all I knew at that point
was news. Alex hadn't contacted me. I didn't really know
what was going on. And he said, Hey, how you doing.

(27:19):
And I kind of knew where he was going to
go with this, and he said, hey, you know, I've
been talking to John John Hart and we want to
know how you feel about playing shortstop. I said, I
don't want to play shortstop. It was I was very clear.
He goes, we're gonna we're gonna sign rich Aurelia. I
believe to play short at the time with with Alex,
we're gonna sign Richiaralia and you'll play second or you're

(27:41):
gonna play short I prefer you for you to play
short I said, I love the rich Earlia idea. I
don't want to play shortstop. I said, I recognize how
cool shortstop is. I said, but I've played about it.
I don't. You can look it up, I told John
told Buck, I said, I haven't played much short stop
and I really feel like I am getting ready to
take off as a two way GUYE second. I don't
want to be messed with. I feel like I've really

(28:02):
scratched and clawed my way to earn this job. I
feel like last year I finally did and I just
want to be left alone to do it. So Buck says, okay,
I understand. There's a short conversation and he's like, I'll
go back. I'll tell John that you're interested in doing
whatever's best for the team. I said, no, no, no, nope,
not what I said. I want to play second Now.
Having said that, I recognized that Alex's deal is much

(28:23):
bigger than what my preference was at that point. I
got that when I got the phone. But then, you know,
JD to your point. I'm driving the spring training Christine
and I are on the way there and we find
out Als got traded to the Yankees, and I hadn't
heard back from anybody at that point. Again, if that
deal comes along quick, they don't need to take my
opinion and consideration. I got it, but we got there
still didn't talk to anybody. Then I go out for
the first day of early working. Sory and I both

(28:45):
go to second base and Manny Alexander is playing short
stuff and I was like, this is not going to fly.
You know. So I went into Bucks office that day
and I said, what's going on? And he said, well,
you and sorry, You're both going to play short and
whoever plays better going to be a shortstop.

Speaker 2 (29:00):
And I was just like it was.

Speaker 3 (29:03):
It was frustrating at that point because I knew where
it was going to go, and I really felt like
this was going to be a bit of the downslope
in terms of me just losing a grip on my
own career. So at that point I gave it a
day to think about it, and I said, well, listen,
if I beat out Soory, which I thought I would,

(29:24):
to play shortstop, I'd rather play every game at spring
training so I don't make a fool of myself in
April out there. So the next day I went in
the Bucks office said all right, if this is the
way it's going to be, then I need to get
at it now. So that's how that thing all round
it up. I feel like I've gotten a bit too
much credit for just being you know, very very selfless
and everything. It was very much like, hey, listen, I

(29:46):
need if I'm going to do this, I need to
do it now. My preference one hundred percent was to
play second base, but I also knew that if I
was going to play short I need all the practice
I can get.

Speaker 1 (29:54):
Michael, I would like to tell some funny stuff, but
I actually want to just build off of this theme.
You know, I was with JD when we were kind
of workshopping a conversation he ultimately then had with you
about changing positions again preseason two thousand and nine to
make room for Elvis Anders, who he thought had a
chance to be a gifted shortstop. And I will say

(30:18):
I think both both our careers have changed dramatically based
upon how that conversation went. And one thing I reflect
on is, as much as our intentions are sounds, sometimes
our executions don't align perfectly with our intentions. And so
knowing what we were trying to accomplish in that conversation
with JD genuinely wanted to achieve and then hearing how

(30:39):
it impacted you, we understand that those two things didn't
align very well. But how did that conversation go? From
your perspective and as you look back on it, how
much did the conversation you just referenced factor in for you?
And you know what could have been done better in
that situation to have conveyed that message with out really

(31:01):
inflaming the relationship with what was clearly one of the
star players on the team. And I love JD's perspective
on that too.

Speaker 3 (31:08):
Sure I think on it to be totally honest, and
I think I knew it at the time. JD did
absolutely nothing wrong in that conversation. It went well. We
went to breakfast to meet JD and Wah and we
had a great, good relationships with all three. But you
hit it that PTSD. Man, it hit me right away.
I'm like, I know where this is going. I know
where this is going. It went from I didn't want

(31:29):
to leave second. Now I'm going to go to short,
and now I'm just getting pushed farther and farther away
from my natural position. And there was part of me
when I played short that thought, Okay, if I leave short,
I can go back to second. Right, I also knew,
and you leave the middle infield, you never go back.
It's done. So JD didn't do anything wrong. Communication was

(31:49):
rock solid. It was fine, and I understood where the
organization was. My thought was, and the organization does you know,
do what's in the best interest of the organization. My
thought was, this is going to kill me. This is
going to kill me. I know where this is going
to go A couple of years after this, By the way,
I think I'd played an inning it third my entire life,
and I know enough about it to know that it's
going to be really, really different. So you know, I

(32:12):
was I walked away again, like to your point, the
PTSD from moving second hit me, and I said, this
is going to go a bad way, really really soon.
And I just wasn't in favor of that. From that perspective,
I wanted to stay it short, not because I thought
I was a short stop. Again. If if someone would
have moved me at any point when I was playing
short stop back to second, I would have said thank you.
But having said that, the teammate and he kicks in

(32:33):
I Ian Kinsler, my best friends in the roles playing
second base. He earned his job. I'm not going to
elbow my way over there. So it created a really
really I wrestled with it, man, you know, like I
never went any point really least I think said moved
me to second. That's where Ken was at. So it
just I just said I want to stay short even
though honestly, like sure, it wasn't really this thing in

(32:53):
my mind where I really wanted to be short stop.
I wanted to be a second baseman. And with that thing,
I got farther and farther away from it. And I
think I was upset because I knew that if I
went to third seconds now gone, j D.

Speaker 1 (33:05):
How do you reflect on that exchange?

Speaker 2 (33:07):
Yeah, and I think there's some important concept. And Michael
was several years in a row running an All Star
at that time, just won the Gold Glove at shortstop.
So we're here, we are, you know, messaging to him
Wash and I go, we meet Michael for breakfast, and
the messages you know, this is best for the team
because you know, we team was in bankruptcy, we were
up for sale. We didn't have any money to spend
on you know, free agents, and so we thought one

(33:28):
of the ways we can get better was we had
this young shortstop that could come up and basically, you know,
maybe make us better at two positions. But it was
a tough message. Michael had literally just won the gold Glove,
you know, it worked his ass off to make himself
a star at a second position. That if you recall
and I come back from the meeting. The way Michael

(33:49):
just phrased it made it sound like it was like,
you know, perfect, I definitely don't think of my execution
was was anywhere close to that. But we come back
and it's I think it was you me and Aj Preller,
and you guys are like, well, had the meeting go,
And I was like, show, I think it went great.
And I lost all credibility with that and Aj and

(34:11):
the rest of the front office for describing how meetings
went in the future because it was a little bumpy,
but we got through it in no small part because
you know, Michael ultimately, you know, as you say, put
the team first. But it was I think a lot
more challenging for him, certainly that I recognized at the time,
and not even now when you look at like players

(34:32):
moving positions or you know, the you know, the situation
Boston had earlier this year, Like there's always more of
the than than meets the eye, and I think these
are real challenges. People assume it's just an easy move,
but there's a lot of work and a lot of challenge,
and both physically and mentally. I think that goes into
these things well and there's.

Speaker 1 (34:51):
A lot of pride involved, right, Like you have a
lot of pride in the expertise you have in the
time you've put in to become a great second basement
or a great shortstop, and being asked to move kind
of tears a little bit at the fabric of your
sense of identity and self worth, right.

Speaker 3 (35:04):
Michael, exactly that. I think that's where I was at,
and I had a really tough time seeing both sides
of that. I think it's like the best analogy. It's
corny as hell, but it's like, you know, you drive,
you know you're on this path towards trying to make
yourself as good as you can be. Then you know
you go ninety five percent of the way. Then the
front office said, hey, we'll take the keys and take
it from here, and I'm like, piss off. I've done
everything to get me here, Like I want to see

(35:26):
this thing through on my terms. And I finally like
the only way I can really kind of arrive at
a point where I could just get into size, like
sometimes in life you just don't get everything you want.
You don't And then now I have a choice. I
can sit here and bitch and moan about it, which
I did plenty of, and my line in the sand
was always like spring training. My agent, Danny, who I've
had a great relationship, was like, Hey, you need to

(35:46):
hold out in spring training. That's how you're gonna get
what you want. I'm like, I will never do that.
As matter of fact, it's the opposite. Spring training is
the line where this ends. Like I can complain about
it all. I don't think I'm the first player of
all time to have it sagreeing with the front office
and the off season, but it ends the second we
all soop in Arizona. It has to I have to.
I don't. I'm not going to be that guy.

Speaker 1 (36:07):
Yeah, you know, I will say Michael. One of the
things that I've adjusted in my career since that day
was that I always thought it was valuable to have
a special assistant who was a former player to run
some of these messages by, because our intentions really are good,
our execution sometimes does fall short, because you know, JD.
We had that in Texas where we started working with

(36:29):
guys like Michael and Darren Oliver who gave us real
good guidance, like we would run messages by them like Okay,
how is a player going to interpret this situation And
we adjusted our messaging a lot because of that. When
I went to Minnesota, the first two hires we had
were LA Troy Hawkins and Tory Hunter, who helped us
a lot, and then then Michael Kadiro and Justin Moreno
came on board. I think it's invaluable because as much

(36:50):
as we feel like we're sitting astride you guys like
we don't have the perfect player's mindset, we have we
have to yield that and we have to understand running
these messages players really is immensely valuable if we want
to land the message right.

Speaker 3 (37:04):
And the tough part for the front office and again
I've never been a GM, but having you know, been
beside you guy for some of these things, and it's
really difficult for the front office to nail the message
because from a player's perspective, you mess up one word
and the player holds it against you like it's got
to be nailed. And I remember, like, and there's, like

(37:25):
you said, the prive factor sometimes doesn't allow you to
think of the levelhead of these situations. And I'm not
necessarily sure that the player has to write. It's like
so it's it's really really difficult for the front office
to really hit these things perfectly. I mean, that's asking
a lot to really nail that message. It's really really difficult.
I mean I remember with that had I had JD
and I, you know, and I always kind of like

(37:46):
thought about that whenever I got upset about something. It
never made me feel good about it. And I remember
once said JD and I kind of got into it
in his office and the next day, I think he
was going to go on a road trip and I
just showed up. I was like, okay, like I feel bad,
like you're turned, like you hit me, go ahead, like
and he didn't, you know, he was really cool about it.
And I remember that I had had a conversation that
I did most of the talking in the off season

(38:06):
on the phone one time, and then we were in
Baltimore in twenty eleven and Dad was on the trip
and I said, Okay, if you have something to say
to me, go ahead. And this is like when I
say the messaging is because I was talking to that
I know his intentions were great, and he was talking
about me, and at this point it was going really well.
So I'm sure his guard was down a little bit
and he goes, hey, listen, he was talking about my
career and he's being very complimentary. He's like, you know,

(38:28):
I think that you can be someone who's more remembered
for your offense than your defense. Probably didn't think much
of it. And I was like, because you stripped me
of all my fucking value and all went back to zero. Right,
So I'm like, if you guys just And the tough
part for me was like, Dad, wasn't there No. Four
when I got moved off second, he wasn't there in
that like making that decision. It's not fair. So it's
this constant reminder that I'm like, he is thinking about

(38:50):
twenty eleven, how we can be good now rightfully? So
right just like all of you guys should have been.
And so it's my issue to deal with what's happened
in the past and you know, sort of get over
it and go play baseball. Ultimately, that's what's going to
come down to.

Speaker 1 (39:05):
Michael's let's shift gears to some of the glorious days
we all enjoyed together. Do you remember pre season twenty ten,
you and I did invent the sale Dallas Salesman's club,
and the question was asked of you, how do you
think we're going to do this year? Do you remember
how you answered that?

Speaker 3 (39:23):
I think so. I remember this is the first thing
I realized that was really funny. By the way, we
were at the Salesmanship Club, and that is NonStop zingers
with like all these guys in Dallas who like by
the way, they just went there to be entertained and
laughed the whole time. And I was like, damn, this
is a funny dude, man. So but yeah, I think so.
I think I remember saying something to the effect of

(39:43):
that was like the first year where I really felt like,
if we just play, we'll win. In the past, that
felt like Bartolo Yanks and Hammy, something happens, the Vlad
Lackey heard Zanoba and we go off. We got a
shot going twenty ten and it was true. I was like,
we just stay healthy and play well. We're the best team.
Just we're the best team. And I really thought that way.

Speaker 1 (40:06):
I remember that so distinctly because I felt like that
was the jumping off point, like we knew we were talented,
we weren't getting a lot of credit, but like I thought,
that was the day one of like, Okay, we're expecting
to win right now. Like the whole dynamic I think changed.
I remember you saying like all those things about the
other teams, and you used to have to put the
qualifiers and you said, if these teams play their best,

(40:27):
were going to still kick their ass, and it was
like wow, like the whole room that it was palpable,
the feeling in the room, It was awesome, and we
went on to do it. How was that season for
you playing when we were also changing ownership and we're
technically in bankruptcy. Did that impact you guys at all
as players?

Speaker 3 (40:46):
Not really. I think you guys deserve a lot of
credit for that. You guys are the ones taken all
answering all those questions publicly, so there wasn't much left
you guys. Now it goes so if you guys answer
every question publicly, not much will filter down to us.
And I don't remember really as answering that question too
often because you guys are the ones handling it, which
is I don't think most players think about that sort
of thing, but I did because that was sort of

(41:06):
my role at that point, whether I wanted it or not,
So I definitely appreciated that. But you know, to your
point about twenty ten in the beginning of it too.
One of my pet peeves and sports is when people say,
you know, if you don't win, it's a failure. I
hate that. It doesn't make you less competitive to say
that if you don't win the championship, it wasn't a failure.
Two thousand and nine was a massive and great year

(41:27):
for the Rangers.

Speaker 1 (41:28):
Huge year.

Speaker 3 (41:29):
It was a jumping off point to everything we did.
Do we make the playoffs and no, we're we a
little short on talent ultimately, yes, but that was like
the real needle up year for this So for someone
to say, if someone ever told me that it's either
win or failure, I would point two thousand and nine
and say, piss off, because that is the one that
really allowed us to take off. And like you said,

(41:49):
the reason I had that feeling that going in twenty
ten was one the moves you guys have made in
the Winner to make us better, and two just the
experience we had the year before we really started to
come together, we really started to be a team, and
you know, we could see twenty ten happening before it even.

Speaker 2 (42:05):
Happened the celebration when when we you guys beat Oakland,
we clinched the day game there and in the Bay
Area and the whole front office. I think the new
ownership group was out there and then everybody went out
and celebrated right broadcast Team Klubby's front office. I remember
it was. I don't know the name of that bar.

(42:25):
I don't remember a lot about that night other than
it was a lot of fun and just the I
think the first time doing it all together, a little
bit of like the innocence of all of us. So
what do you remember from that?

Speaker 3 (42:36):
Exactly what you said? I think Scott Feldman the bar,
his finest found that bar for us, and I mean, honestly,
I think back to that, and I'm like, I hope
that teams nowadays can have that. I'm not sure if
it's like that anymore. I hope that someone has that
because I remember walking into that room. I had dinner
with my folks and my in laws they were up there,
and I walked into that place. I'm like, this is unbelievable.

(43:00):
I think I might've been one of the last ones
to show up, but I saw it like I walked
in and I saw a beer pong over here, a
chat over here, you know, a credit card being thrown
down at the bar. I'm like, oh man, I'm like
I couldn't believe it. For me personally, it had been
a long time coming. But the cool thing about that
that night and that team was that at no point
did I think that I deserved it more because I'd

(43:21):
been arranger for a long time, like that to twenty
ten team, like do we deserve that? Like everyone who
had put in all the work to get to that
point deserved it. So it was a it was a
really really cool night. Next day, you know, we had
a bit of a day off at a day game
in Oakland. The sort of processed everything. It just happened.
But man, it was. It was pretty damn cool. I
loved it.

Speaker 1 (43:41):
Who we won the reclar Yeah.

Speaker 3 (43:44):
Yeah, we won that game. We won that game yet exactly. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (43:46):
I think Jeff frank Core somehow shook it off long
enough to d H and I think he hit two
bombs between you know, maybe being a little bit sick
and between those two yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (43:59):
I think Trevor k Hill had been like five and
zero against us that year, and somehow we beat him,
beat him. That there was incredible. I remember Wash standing
up in the clubhouse and saying like who can post
And it was like we barely had We had like
seven guys. Like people were in physical disarray throughout the
whole clubhouse and we somehow some people ponied up. Jeffrank
Corps was leading the charge.

Speaker 2 (44:20):
It was, it was.

Speaker 3 (44:21):
It was incredibly the night before. I mean even if
you guys remember the day before when we actually clinched,
Like first of all, we had time like we were
going to clinch this thing, but I remember we brought
in police I think in the eighth I want to say,
and it's like it was like our moment to like go,
It almost felt like we're clinching today, and like there
was a little bit of like this fun butterfly moment
as a player and they're like, all right, we're going now,

(44:42):
and then like Corey Kantuo gets at Homer and it's
like we had like as very much a postseason vibe
to that game, which was new for us. That game
was was a lot of fun to play.

Speaker 1 (44:53):
Well fast forward a little bit for the listeners out there,
the Rangers had only been in the playoffs three times,
they had been eliminated, each time by the Yankees. They
never won a playoff series, never won a play playoff
game at home. So now Michael's part of clinching the
first regular season. Now we're going to Tampa to play
a really vaunted Tampa Bay team. JD. Weave some incredible

(45:16):
magic at the trade deadline, gets a gets a left
hand pitcher named Cliff Lee. What was the experience like
then when we win our first playoff game? Unfortunately not
at home yet, I don't think. I think the road
team won all five games in that series, but we
win in Tampa and then we're going on to face
the Yankees.

Speaker 3 (45:35):
Yeah, I mean, like you said, we win the first
two games. Cliff was that that trade still to this
day he was. Nowadays rentals have thought about it is,
you know, not that big of a deal, but at
the time that was like CC went to Milwaukee had
a massive impact. We get Cliff and I remember Jad
we had a brief chat older in that season before
they tried deadline and he asked me, in my opinion,
he goes, would you go Cliff Lee as a rental

(45:56):
or royal as well? I think really might have had
h the year after that. You know, that's the mantage
of getting rollers you have next year. And I was
like Cliff, I was like, whatever you bring us is great,
but Cliff, like at that point Cliff was rolling. I mean,
my god, the energy we got from that was incredible.
But I'll never forget man. We the flame. The flight
back from Texas to Tampa. We're landing before Game five,

(46:19):
and I remember there was this feeling in the plane
going like I can't believe we're back here after we
lost two at home for Games three and four. So
we all get to the clubouse early and you could
tell the vibes good, per usual with that team, and
the starting pitcher is always the last one to arrive.
So Cliff rolls in, you know, standard Cliff Lee body language,
goes to his locker and everyone's kind of looking at

(46:40):
him a little bit, kind of feeling them out. Takes
his watch off, puts it down, turns around and goes,
we're good. That was it, And we're like and it
was like the I can't know nothing was said, but
we looked around We're like, we are gonna fuck these
guys up tonight. It was the best feeling in the world,
like Turns says we're good and then go CG and

(47:04):
just I mean, there's so many moments from that season
that really twenty ten is like it's such a such
an incredible moment for this organization. It's just very proud
to be a part of it.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
I think one thing just to reflect on, you know, Michael,
you and I had a great conversation a handful of
years ago where I remember saying to you, like, I
couldn't be more proud to be part of those twenty
ten and twenty eleven seasons. You know, technically we finished
in second place, we lost the World Series both years,
but you know, sports are such a it's such kind
of a cruel process where if you don't finish in first,

(47:34):
you know, people to you know, put you in the
bucket off you were one of the losers. And it's
like those two teams were absolutely spectacular. They were the
times of my life. I think I'm speaking for all.

Speaker 2 (47:43):
Three of us.

Speaker 1 (47:44):
You know, it was just such a great group of
people who had grinded so hard to get there, and
the personalities on those teams were excellent, and the playing
was spectacular. I mean, the highlight reels from those seasons
were just off the charts. I'd love to start each
of those seasons again. I'd take take us to win
each of those seasons, just based upon the talent and

(48:04):
the heart we had on some of those teams.

Speaker 3 (48:07):
Me too, I would do And I think looking back
at my career, yes, we'd all love to have had,
you know, won a championship for sure. But I think
one thing that I'm just very thankful of is just
having the bonds that you get. Yeah, a lot of
those bonds are We have some pain involved in some
of those bonds, but that's all right, Like I can
deal with those. I want the bonds, and I think
we have them. I look back at it's easy for

(48:27):
us to say, like I would if we start that
season again. Yeah, I would take that group all day long,
especially in the twenty eleven team. I mean that team
was just ready to rock and roll from the beginning.
And if you look back at just even twenty ten,
that team was based on like energy, the Cliff component.
But you look back at some of our seasons, with

(48:47):
the exception of Josh obviously and probably Flatty, none of
us really had career years. I didn't Kins, didn't but
you go to twenty eleven and you look at everyone's
individual season, it's like, my goodness. And then of course
you Adrian to that team, and you know it takes
the talent level to you know, Adrian and nap Actually
the season that napad was disgusting in twenty eleven, then

(49:09):
you know it takes that team to a bit of
a different level.

Speaker 2 (49:12):
You mentioned the bonds and the makeup, the kind of
the clubhouse culture. That was unbelievably talented team, but that
all those things, those traits you just touched on, took
it to a different level. And again I think you're
being humble and modest here, but you know, before the
eleven season we signed Adrian that one. I'm pretty confident

(49:32):
you would agree I did not execute as well with
you handling that one, and you and I we don't
talk for close to two years, right, I think it
was you know, I regret a lot of that. We've
talked about it before. But we signed Adrian, which moves
you off third base. And we also add Napoli, who

(49:54):
you know, at the time, nap we weren't quite sure
how much he was going to catch. He ended up
catching quite a bit but at the time we thought
it might be a little more d H. And so
you're you know, your exact role was was put up
in the air a little bit. We walk into spring
training and that first day you were the you were
the person that greets Nap and you'd already talked to him.

(50:15):
I'm sure you're the person that embraces Adrian and and
he's he said, you were the first person that called
him after he signed and welcomed him. I don't think
we have that team's success without you know, you making
it easy on those guys to assimilate in and again
putting the team first. But not really question so much
as that. You know, I appreciate your humility, but you push,

(50:36):
You pushed pat You. You were maybe the reason why
those traits allowed that team to to have that multiplayer effect.

Speaker 3 (50:44):
Appreciate it. I do think it's also the guys that
you brought in. Adrian apart from being in a Hall
of Famers, you see it right away, just he's such
an incredible competitor and he added to what we already had.
I don't imagine it's easy to go into like an
winning environment, kind of like try and find your space,
right away, and Adrian did it perfectly. He did it
like he's with a sense of humility, even though we

(51:06):
already knew how great a planity was. And Napp did
it the opposite. But like this just like like complete
naive to everything to like what I mean by that is,
I remember I grabbed Adrian when we reported to say, hey, man,
I'm sorry if this ruined you know, any moment of
you signing here, so like, don't sweat it. We're good,
Like it's all over with and Adrian's cool. You can

(51:26):
see a little bit Adrian's kind of like, you know,
a little bit of weight off his shoulders. I don't
think it was bothering him too much, but then he
probably made a little bit of a little bit more
at ease. I go to Nap to have the same chat,
and he stared at me like I have nine heads
and goes, I have no idea what you're talking about. Man,
had no clue, And I said, well, then we're good,

(51:47):
and I walked away, like so one guy who's like
been following this thing pretty clearly. I mean, because maybe
there was more of a direct impact with me and
Abe than it was with Nap. But Nap had no
clue what I was talking about. None, but it's awesome.

Speaker 1 (52:00):
So yeah, and Michael, you've talked about some of the
superstar talent and personalities. I wanted to hit you on
two guys. We'll start with one. What what did Ron
Washington's hire mean to this run that the team ultimately
goes on? We ended up playing in the postseason six
of seven seasons, and you talked about the twenty oho
nine team was excellent and felt just short. What did

(52:23):
he mean to this group?

Speaker 3 (52:24):
Yeah? You know what's interesting is over the past couple
of years, you know, you watch like, you know, some
documentaries on TV and you watch the remember Derek's one
the Captain thing. You see Joe Torre's impact on that team,
and you see Tito's on like the socks on the
Netflix thing, and you see how these managers are all
really good for this specific group of guys, Like Joe
Tory probably couldn't have been more perfect for that, you know,
those Yankee teams, Wash could not have been more perfect

(52:46):
for those Ranger teams. It was the perfect guy. We
We thrived on energy, enthusiasm and like this bonded group.
That's what made us really good. Obviously we're very talented.
Obviously we had some really really good players everywhere, but
we were very very together. So we felt like when
we were playing a series, you had to kind of

(53:07):
and we felt that we played other other teams like
we can kind of start to break them a little
bit and by the time Sunday rolls around, we've leaned
on them enough that they're fifth in. Right, these guys
are getting ready to fold, like one more big genning
and the fold, and we got this thing can keep
the leverage guys out. You know, no one could do
that to us in order to beat us. You were
just a flow to have to out execute us because
we were not going to break. We were bonded. And

(53:29):
that was a really cool thing and it came from Wash.
He's just a piece of work. We can go for
stories forever with Wash. But and I think the really
cool thing about Wash is that we understood him really well,
so he got the benefit of the doubt doubt from
us in terms of I always said, it's really unfair
for front office and probably for managers too, where they

(53:50):
have to nail the communication every single time. You know,
now you have to nail and address the team not
just one guy, but with all twenty five. That's hard.
We knew Wash was gonna fumble come things like just
in terms of the communicator, We knew where he was
coming from. We knew what the you know, where the
heart was at. That was really cool. That was so
that that was the perfect hire and one that we

(54:11):
needed right away. When you consider where we were at
in two thousand and seven, I think you guys probably
knew that we had this blueprint probably for a couple
of years, and then two thousand and nine rolls around
and like you said, two thousand nine to me started
the whole thing, not ten. To me, it started in
two thousand and nine. So you know, two years after that,
you know we were we were off and running. But
just the energy component, how much he believed in the

(54:33):
guys was pretty pretty cool. And I speak, you know,
I know he believed in me a ton, stuck with
me during times I probably didn't even deserve it, especially
my last year in Texas and very very little dude.
So thinking about him right now, actually you know, hopefully
he's doing well.

Speaker 2 (54:49):
Absolutely, my god, take it, take a chance here and
ask you this question. But you've got your your you
just talked about Wash and the impact the things you
saw there. You got your USA Baseball shirt on, you know,
your coach there with with d row and the WBC team,
and you get to reboot that and do that again.

(55:12):
You and I have had this conversation. I've always thought
you would be a you know, tremendous UH coach manager
really with anything GM, anything you want to do in
the game. I know you've got you know, your boys,
and and you know that's your focus. But what what
is the future for you in baseball?

Speaker 3 (55:27):
What?

Speaker 2 (55:27):
What what intrigues you going forward?

Speaker 3 (55:30):
Man? Pretty much? I mean what intrigues me is all
the things you mentioned. You know, I love the game,
you know every time. You know, you guys probably know this,
but anytime I would kind of go to the office
and go to which wasn't easy to get to at
the old ball park because he was totally on the
other side of the clubhouse. But I love just walking
in and being around you guys to talk baseball. I
loved it. I loved it. It was really cool. So

(55:52):
from the work perspective, any of those things you mentioned
is intriguing to me. But I wouldn't trade any of
my time with my family right now. I love it.
We travel when we want to, still connected to the game,
but you know, I get to watch my go, go
visit my son in college. Go my other son's playing
high school baseball. Now I get to watch those games.
And the last WBC really kind of told me give

(56:14):
me my answer, because I used to always think that
as my kids got older, maybe I would get back in.
So the last WBC, I remember we were in Arizona
and the family we had rented a house and we
had some friends from Dallas come hang out with us,
and we had an off day and I'm by the
pool with like a Pacifico and it's like two o'clock
and I can't stop thinking about who we're playing the
next day. And that's when it really hit me and

(56:35):
like I can't shut down. Even for the WBC, I
can't shut down. So I'm like, I can't do this,
Like I can only imagine what it would be like
if I was managing a team, or potentially on my
way to managing a team. I wouldn't have the ability
to shut down. And I just I don't want to
put myself or my family in that spot where they
have to deal with that version of me. So if

(56:56):
I'm doing it, then I can't imagine what it would
be like in September October makes.

Speaker 1 (57:00):
Sense my hunch, Michaels, You'll continue to get those opportunities
presented to you because of your reputation in the game
and your continued involvement. One thing I just wanted to
ask you is, you know, really, in the last ten years,
analytics has boomed so much in the game of baseball,
and I'm curious, as you look back at your career,
is there information you wish you had? Is there things

(57:23):
you wish you knew? And would you have conducted yourself
at all differently in your career if you had all
the information that players have today.

Speaker 3 (57:29):
Yeah, I think so. I do think that there's a
there's a bit of a pros and cons list to
all this. I think one thing is I definitely would
have tried to make some swing adjustments that would have
enabled me to get the ball in the air a
little more often to the pull side. I think that's
something that could have been I think a lot of
times whenever people try and hit more homers, I think
they feel like they're gonna take away from one part

(57:51):
of the game to add to the other. So for
someone like me who kind of naturally went safe from
the left center to the right field line, I don't think.
I think I could have just added the ability to
be more effective to the pull side without taking away
from anything else. So I think that could have that
would have helped. Having said that, I do believe, and
I hate There are times I hate having bringing this

(58:12):
up because I don't want to be that guy that
talks about, you know, in my day we did this
and that, because I do feel like the talent of
the players nowadays just destroys our era or the era
before ours, and so on and so on. But I
do believe the way that we played then or then
had more to do with creating momentum, understanding momentum, being

(58:32):
creative in terms of how to score runs. I feel
like right now there's a singular blueprint in terms of
how to do it, and I feel like that basically
comes down to now, whoever's most talented will win, because
I don't really feel like many teams go outside the
box in order to, you know, try and score runs.
I actually see like, you know, certain teams that feel
like the Rays have kind of been successful a lot
of to kind of try and find ways to expand

(58:53):
their offense to to score. But I do feel like
it should should be something where more teams do it.
I remember one time I was, you know, we're having
a conversation with about hitting, and I was watching a
couple of things on MLB Network and they were talking
about one Pierre in kind of negative terms, and I
took that really personally, like, who wouldn't want one Pierre
right now? The guy would get he first of all,

(59:14):
posted he's playing one sixty, he hit like three twenty,
he'd steal seventy bags. Did he walk a lot? No?
Did he hit a ton of doubles and triples and homers? No?
But still he is not the blueprint for your entire lineup.
He is the leadoff guy or the center of left
fielder who can do those things. And by the way,
a complete A plus human being who played his ass off.

(59:36):
Who wouldn't want that guy right now? So I but
they put him in a box of saying that he
can't do. You know, he didn't walk a lot or
didn't drive the ball though, no he didn't, but a
lot of guys didn't do that. In the history of
the game who were incredibly valuable. So I think that
in terms of roster construction and how and having the
creative creativity to score in different ways, I think that's
lacking a little bit. I'm glad that the you know,

(59:58):
stolen bases kind of making it back. That's great. But
I do think that in terms of understanding momentum in games,
and I watch games, I see a team that's they
swing the same way in the first thing as they
do in the seventh when they're down two runs. It's
the exact same thing. And I feel like for me
personally and the teams I played on, almost every single
time when I went up there, there was a different
goal or a different idea in mind based on what

(01:00:20):
the scoreboard said and what the momentum of the game said.

Speaker 1 (01:00:24):
Yeah, you know, Michael. An incredible additional fact about one Pierre,
because I got a chance to be with him in Colorado,
was that his first ever time being in a big
league stadium was when he was called up to the
big leagues. He had never been in a big league
ballpark before that day. Came from pretty humble background in Louisiana,
and you said it, he was an exceptional person, exceptional family,
a wonderful human being. But yeah, I think that you

(01:00:47):
just encapsulated that how the game has changed. The last
question I had for you and then we can let
you run, Michael, is what did it mean to you
to have your number retired by the Texas Rangers. You're
in the Hall of Fame already for them and deservedly,
But this is an exalted award that go to very
very few people. What was that honor like for you?

Speaker 3 (01:01:08):
It was? It was really it was incredible, probably the
like the biggest singular like individual award or highlight or
honor that I've had, And just a huge thanks to
the entire Rangers organizations that JD led led the charge there.
I mean, you know, when you get something like that,
it's it's this It shows the kind of connection that
you have with your team, with the fan base of

(01:01:29):
the team, and you know that the team ultimately kind
of valued the way I played, which is just an
incredible honor. So yeah, I the thanks goes to the
Rangers and specifically the JD for for allowing that to happen. Again,
a really really incredible honor, especially with the guys you know,
to have like mine right next to Adrian, who you know,
is one of the you know, best third base in

(01:01:51):
the history of the game, and we share some really
cool times on those those incredible teams. And again, every
time I see that and I see our kind of
numbers right next to each other, it takes me right
back to to that time, which you know, to your
point earlier, that is like my favorite time as a
Big league you know, even in twenty twelve where I
didn't have a great season and we end up coming

(01:02:12):
up short in the in and in a way that
was disappointing to all of us, we still had that
feeling during twenty twelve too, So that whole, that whole
stretch man, I'm just really really thankful for the people
out surrounded by I'm tempted.

Speaker 1 (01:02:23):
Before we let you go, I want to play like
a quick game with you. I'll give you what word association,
jad and I are going to mention players names first
first word that comes to mind. Feel free to roast
the hell out of these guys if you want to.
I'll kick it off right, Ian Kinsler, red ass Kobe Lewis.

Speaker 3 (01:02:47):
What was this one word or a thought? Yes?

Speaker 1 (01:02:50):
Thought is great?

Speaker 3 (01:02:51):
That is good. Okay, well, and I'll give King's Board
and the red Ass. But like kids is one of
my best friends ever. Just an incredible player. Kobe is like,
oh man, I love Colby Lewis. When I first played
with him in the beginning, you know, he's throwing ninety
five with a big old curve ball, and then all
of a sudden, I didn't even I hate to say this,

(01:03:11):
I didn't even know Kobe was pitching in Japan, and
all of a sudden, like you guys signed him to
I think it was like a two year deal, I
believe or something like that. When when he brought him over,
I don't know what it was, but and I was like,
oh cool. You know, Colbey Lewis is coming back thinking
nothing that and then he comes back and I remember,
like his first game, I look up in the raid
arguing surprise. I'm like Colby's throwing eighty nine, like we'll
see where this goes. And then next thing, you know,
like nobody gets hits off of Colby Lewis, and he's

(01:03:33):
the bionic Man. He's tough as hell. I mean, some
of the stuff he pitched through is incredible. Still get
a chance to see him a lot, especially since I
moved back to California, and he's one of those guys
to guys like Hall of Famers are remember for appropriate
and obvious reasons, Right, Adrian and Pudge, their names will
never be forgotten and they deserve that. But there's certain

(01:03:56):
guys like that I played with who you know they
won't last another generation. And I'm Kolby's one of those guys.
For me, like an incredible player, incredible career, and I
just like every time I played behind him there was
this feeling like like again that Bond kind of kicks
in from the first pitch. Those are really really incredible memories.

Speaker 1 (01:04:15):
Yeah, I think he should be in the Hall of
Fame for Texas. I know JD and I've talked about.
The word I would say about him is he was
a warrior. What he played through was incredible. To perform
at the level he did with some of the off
field injuries that he was struggling with is just incredible.
I got one more for you and Nelson Cruz.

Speaker 3 (01:04:36):
I think just first thing, I think of Nelly's smile,
like I remember like just having like this incredible personality
in our team, and then plus a bit of a battler,
right turns out, and Nelly was quite the grinder, you know,
could you know, go to Triple A and basically just
destroying it every year coming to the big leagues and
like having failure is not easy, go back down, rinse

(01:04:56):
and repeat, and then all a sudden he comes up
and finds his footing and became, you know, one of
the very key members of those really really fun teams.
And now he's one of those guys too. And it's
sometimes these power guys and they get in these really
really good spots. I mean, those are the guys that
can carry teams. And I remember I was on third
base in Game two at the ALCS, and you know,
Dave is coach, Dave Anderson's coaching third and uh, we

(01:05:20):
don't think that nobody out bases loaded, and he goes,
all right, medium fly ball, you stay and deeply ball.
I said, he's going deep right here, Mike, because he
had just hit a foul ball off of who's he's
facing from, Aaron Ryan Perry. Yeah, and uh just yanks,
like a five hundred foot missile foul. I'm like, he

(01:05:41):
is dialed in right now, Like we've seen this, this
whole city, Like we've seen this, Like he's going deep
right here. I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna get back to
the third. I'm gonna watch it over the fence, and
then I'm gonna jog home and do a bunch of
guys who are jumping all over each other. That's what's
gonna happen, right.

Speaker 1 (01:05:54):
It was just he had that look man that he
may have hit seven home runs in that series.

Speaker 3 (01:06:00):
Member, I think I think every game, I think the
big I think Game five was like a huge one.
I think it was off of aval Verde or something
like that. Game four. Excuse me, they won Game three,
and we need really need a game four because that
Detroit team, Like it's funny like whenever you win a series,
you think back that we beat him in six. They
kicked their ass in game six. It almost seems like

(01:06:20):
a really convincing win. But at no point are you
even really comfortable those are convincing in real time? So
they win Game three and then they have their rotation
that's stacked, and all of a sudden, Game four is
tight and you're like, this is a series. Right, then
we hit that he hits that huge homer at the end,
of Game four. We win Game four, and now all
of a sudden, the breathing room it gets it's a
little different now, right because we know that we still

(01:06:42):
we're gonna go back home with momentum no matter what,
unless we wrap this thing up tomorrow.

Speaker 2 (01:06:46):
That game was almost rained out, and uh where we
had the commissioner, Bud Seeleague was on the on the phone,
he was about to call it, and then there was
a window and we got it in and we won.
And I agree totally. I think that the series swung
right there.

Speaker 3 (01:07:02):
Yeah. I wish you would have done the same thing
in twenty eleven before game you.

Speaker 2 (01:07:06):
Mean the rain now when it was sunny and the
rain now.

Speaker 3 (01:07:09):
Yeah, I wish you would allow us to play then too. Yeah,
exactly that game. Yeah, not that I think about it
every single day, but that's cool. Yeah, we all do.

Speaker 1 (01:07:19):
I've gone to men's group for a long time since.
If I drink irresponsibly, I think we actually won that one.
I think it's actually pretty remarkable. We made it through
the whole show and we didn't actually dive into twenty
eleven in the world series. We may need to have
you back on Michael at some point, but Michael, thank
you so much for your time, such incredible insights into

(01:07:42):
championship cultures, communication, interplay between front offices and players, and
everything else you brought to the Texas Rangers, to their fans.

Speaker 3 (01:07:52):
And to us.

Speaker 1 (01:07:52):
I just want to say thank you, Please stay with us.
We'll be back on the other side. Welcome back to
rosterst rings. What a phenomenal conversation with Michael Young.

Speaker 3 (01:08:11):
Jady.

Speaker 1 (01:08:11):
You know, you and I have had so many of
those types of conversations with him throughout our careers, and
I just am so glad that the listeners got to
listen to him and we had like ten more questions
for him. It's incredible. We got to get him back
on air. We're going to need to talk to him
about Josh Hamilton, We're gonna need to talk to him
about the twenty eleven World Series, which were epic moments.
But just such a content, rich guy, what a wonderful person,

(01:08:35):
and I'm so happy we were able to share him
with the listeners today.

Speaker 3 (01:08:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:39):
Absolutely, I mean, just as talented as they come in
a variety of areas, but none more so. Just his
humility who he is the person comes out and everything
and you know we touched on it there at the end.
I genuinely think he could do anything he wants in
the game, from you know, a field manager to front
office gianda. Heck, if he got into the league off

(01:09:00):
this or you know, leadership and helping, you know, address
some of the issues we've had on the labor side,
I think he'd be spectacular just about anything.

Speaker 1 (01:09:08):
You know, and it's it's it's a guy who got
his number retired by a team, which is just an
incredible accomplishment. And also he revealed how human he was,
like how it impacted him throughout his career when there
was a perception that people doubted him. I think seeing
both sides of that makes him just that much more real.
But Jadi, I want to shift our attention for a

(01:09:29):
second here, now that I've got another general manager executive
on the show, just ask your like, what role did
you feel ownership played in setting up teams but also
general managers for success throughout your career.

Speaker 2 (01:09:45):
It's a great question and one that I think my
opinion has evolved on a little bit and continues to.
I just I really think when you look at it,
like the greatest competitive advantage in sports is his ownership,
you know, stay bole uh, forward thinking ownership with long
term vision. And from that it's kind of comes like

(01:10:09):
the alignment with the business side, with your baseball operations
executive or whatever sport, with the field manager. You know,
we just talked to Michael even it can extend down
through player leadership. And I think when you have that alignment,
you know, from top to bottom and bottom up, it

(01:10:29):
just it just it overcomes a lot of you know,
what the challenges are. And you have some organizations now
that have that, like the Dodgers, that also have high
end resources. But you see organizations that have that, you know,
that don't have you know, that same level of revenue.
But when they have that alignment, when they have that
forward thinking ownership group with a long term vision, it

(01:10:51):
can overcome a lot of those discrepancies on the revenue
side if they're there.

Speaker 1 (01:10:57):
Yeah, you know, I always felt that if you're looking
across all professional sports, the franchises that have sustained success,
my theory is that they have synergy between the owner,
the general manager, and the head coach or manager. I
think the ones that a fleeting success probably have synergies
between two of the three, but not all three, and
the ones that have really struggled over prolonged periods of

(01:11:18):
time really have a lot of dysfunction. And you don't
need to look too much further beyond that to understand
kind of the trajectory of your franchise. So I'd like
to like look at it through a different lens.

Speaker 3 (01:11:29):
Now, JD.

Speaker 1 (01:11:31):
You're now one of the chief advisors for the Tampa
Bay Rays. It was just reported the other day that
they are in the process of closing a sale. So
from now the other perspective, there's going to be a
new owner in Tampa. By the way, Stu Sternberg is
probably regarded as one of the best owners in all
professional sports. He'll be leaving the franchise. But what is
this new owner getting, like explain to to the listeners,

(01:11:54):
like what is he buying in the Tampa Bay Rays?

Speaker 2 (01:11:56):
Yeah, I think important. I should just note that, you know,
my knowledge of the you know, what's been reported as
the sale is largely from you know, the same media
reports that you're reading and others are reading. I really
don't have any insight or you know, I'm not involved
at that at that level, But I think, what when
I look at the Rays. You know, if I try

(01:12:18):
to put on a little bit more of an outsider
had look at you talk about that alignment. You know,
Stu has owned the club for over twenty years now,
you know the same team president and Matt Silverman. They've had,
you know, two heads of baseball operations, and Andrew Friedman
and now and now Eric and you know, and Andrew

(01:12:39):
left on his own accord, you know, to take a
different challenge with the Dodgers have two managers with with
Joe Madden uh and and uh you know Kevin Cash
and and again Joe went to the Cubs on his
own accord. So you don't find that kind of continuity.
And you know, maybe the Pittsburgh Steelers. I mean there's
a there's very few organizations and all pro sports that

(01:13:01):
can even begin to compare to that. And I think
what what comes with that is a very mature decision
making group, a very built out and mature infrastructure, both
on the business side and on the baseball side. And
you know, along with a you know, I think when

(01:13:23):
you have the mindset from ownership to everything is kind
of a let's think a lot of smart decisions compounded
over time and we're always kind of looking out for
the best long term interests of the franchise. You end
up with a you know, a good farm system, you
end up with with the club without you know a
lot of bad money on the books, and you always

(01:13:44):
have the ability to kind of make decisions. So I think,
you know, that's what the Rays bring. You've got to,
you know, an organization where the people love to the
culture is so good. I mean, people genuinely love to
be here. And it's because, you know, the management and
ownership cares about them, right. They have a conscience, they
have they have a spine of a backbone, and they

(01:14:07):
do things for the right reasons. And I you know,
maybe sometimes bypassing you know, short term gains for you know,
much bigger long term benefit. And that's the at least,
you know, the three years I've I've worked with the Rays,
that's what I've seen, and it's a pretty special place.
And I think if anybody were to come in in
an ownership capacity that they would benefit from that.

Speaker 1 (01:14:30):
You know, I'll say some things that maybe you're not
as as free to say right now, but I'm just
reading what I read online and it's it says that
the sale will be approximately one point seven billion, which
is very similar to what the Baltimore Orioles sold for
a few years ago one point seven two five billion,
and also a number that has been rumored here in
the market for Minnesota that that may be their target

(01:14:51):
goal as well. And it leaves me looking at it
and saying, well, that's interesting that all three of those
franchises are being valued similarly, and I just want to
try trumpet some of the successes that Tampa's had over
a long time arise and that you've been part of recently,
because when you have that level of continuity and leadership,
one of the pitfalls is it often comes with complacency

(01:15:12):
and you don't stay reinvigorated. So the fact that they
have that level of continuity but are also viewed as
one of the most cutting edge franchises in all of sport,
not just baseball, but all of sports is pretty remarkable.
So for an owner to step up and spend similar
to what was spent in Baltimore, similar to what is
projected to be spent in Minnesota, against the backdrop of

(01:15:34):
the fact that they're going to need to build a
new stadium and the attendance has always been a question
in that market. I think just goes to show how
they're valuing the infrastructure of the organization, both on the
business side, on the baseball operation side, the player pipeline
that has been created there, the talent at the major
league level, the coaching staff at the major league level,

(01:15:54):
all of those things have to be regarded as towards
the top of the game to garner the same a
price that they're garnering in light of the fact that
the attendance has been pretty unstable and you know, with
the recent hurricane and just the need to probably build
a new stadium being first front and center for that franchise,
those are pretty significant on the horizon for that franchise,

(01:16:15):
Yet it was still valued at that level. I think
it's a testament to everything stuos down there, Matt Silverman,
that the leadership group that you've talked about, and then
now you're a huge part of.

Speaker 2 (01:16:26):
Yeah, echo all that. I mean, I think you look
around the game and in terms of personnel, I mean
you've got four or five gms that have come out
of this organization, you know, since since the Sternberg families
owned it, I think five or six major league managers,

(01:16:46):
endless number of you know, assistant gms and directors of
you know, you name it, R and D scouting. But
then the innovation that that that's come out, you know,
the shift, the opener. Uh, you know, I think a
lot of the catcher metrics that we look at the
different ways of analyzing players. And you know, the Tampa

(01:17:11):
Bay organization has had as big of an impact on
the game in Major League Baseball it really is maybe
any organization out there over the last two decades. And
that again for me, that that stems from ownership. And
you talked about the stadium situation. I think if you
were going to you know, kind of look at all

(01:17:31):
all the thirty clubs and what they and kind of
stack them up in different categories, the stadium question is
really the only one, you know, in my mind that uh,
you know that Tampa has kind of open ended. I mean,
there's so many other positives here organizationally, and obviously have
maybe a little bit rose colored glasses, but I think
objective enough, having been elsewhere for a long time to

(01:17:54):
see this is a pretty special organization. I think if
if somebody were going to come in and you know,
take over there's a lot to build on, and so
it'd be very interesting to see where they take it
from here.

Speaker 1 (01:18:07):
Well, unequivocally, I can say, having never worked for Tampa
but competed with them, we're all trying to emulate what
they're doing. We see them as a north star in
terms of cutting edge development, and I don't think we're alone,
not only in baseball, but as I mentioned, across all
of sports. Well, that wraps our episode here at roster
st Rings. I want to spend special things to guest

(01:18:28):
host John Daniels and what incredible conversation with Michael Young.
So stay tuned for next time. We'll see you in
a week on roster ster Rings. Please join me, host
bad Levine, Ryan McDonough and other general managers every week
for roster Syrings on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get

(01:18:49):
your podcasts.