Green Bay Packers Owner Scott Servais (also played baseball and managed a bit!)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome back to rosters, to rings everyone. I am Ryan McDonough,
joined as always by Thad Levine, and that we have
a pack show today. We'll be joined here in a
little bit by Scott's Service, a longtime Major League Baseball player.
You know him as a catcher. You also know him
as a manager, most recently for the Seattle Marriage for
the last decade. He's now working in the San Diego

(00:25):
Padres front office. So welcome in Scott. In segment two.
But that it's a busy time and Pro sports Labor
Day is coming gone, and we're back into college football
season that's in full swing. Mercifully, we won't talk about
my unc tar heels and Bill Belichick's debut on this show.
The NFL regular season is about to kick off on
Thursday night. I think there's a Friday night game on

(00:47):
Netflix as well this year a new wrinkle, and then
you know, the rest of the league plays on Sunday
and Monday, and the Major League Baseball Pennant Race in
full swing. We'll get into some of that as well
with Scott Service. But that where I want to start
the show with you. Who is a listener question? And
this is actually directed to both of us. This question
comes from Albert in Atlanta, and the question is that

(01:08):
he says, over the weekend, I saw a clip of
a quote unquote fan harassing Dallas Mavericks GM Nico Harrison
that went viral. In the clip, the fan sees Harrison
sitting in the window of a restaurant, goes up to
introduce himself and shake Harrison's hand, and then says to
Harrison directly to his face, quote, we all still bleeping

(01:28):
hate you. I won't say what he actually said. That
fan reaction made me cringe. I imagine you had a
similar reaction to it. That the fan was almost certainly
referring to the heavily criticized trade that Nico Harrison and
the Maps made this past season when they sent Luka
Donsich to the La Lakers for Anthony Davis and a
first round pick. So that Albert and Atlanta wants to know,

(01:50):
have you and I ever had anything similar happen to
us during our time as executives in Major League Baseball
and the NBA. Well, Ryan, first of all, you sent
me that clip a couple of nights ago, and it
really was repulsive to me. I you know, regardless. I
don't know Nico Harrison, but anytime I see anything like that,
whether it's it's a fan overstepping with a player, with

(02:13):
an executive, it just seems to me to be so
misguided and so inappropriate. Like, we understand that these jobs
are very public and with that comes an extreme level
of scrutiny and that we embrace. But when it gets personal,
when it becomes you know, bullying and dare I say

(02:34):
in some cases violent, it is just totally inappropriate. And
so I feel like that's a line that is crossed.
It is something that we should never have to face.
And you know, I just don't understand the fan perspective there.
You're you're allowed to share your your criticism, we give
you forms to do that. We should weather those storms,

(02:55):
but when it's a personal attack, it's just way out
of line. Harkins back for me, when I was working
with the Colorado Rockies, Dan O'Dowd was a general manager
and there was times in which we had some ebbs
and flows and winning percentage, and I remember him sharing
with me that one of his children in school was
kind of approached by somebody who was exceptionally vicious in

(03:19):
their commentary about their dad's performance on his job. And
so that extends even further when you start involving executives
and coaches and players families and dare I say their
children in it. I think it's just crossing so many lines.
Did I never had a personal experience associate with this,
but Ryan, did you have anything that was a little

(03:40):
bit closer to home for you? Luckily, nothing that direct
and that aggressive is what Nico Harrison, who's a really
good guy, experience. So you can criticize basketball or baseball
decisions all you want. That we do, that's part of
our job, and you and I've been involved in some
ones that have worked out great and some that have
gone really really poorly and everywhere in between. But I
think what anybody wants at their job or as a

(04:01):
result of their job is to be treated with respect
and not be ambushed. And that's what I didn't like,
or one of the many things I didn't like about
the clip that went viral with the fan and Nico
Harrison is he's sitting in a sports bar watching the
football game or something on TV, a venue where you're
supposed to be off the clock and relaxing, and he
was ambushed, so I didn't have anything that direct. I

(04:21):
think there are a few times that were at games
there were some uncomfortable interactions, but this is more typical.
I think that executives and coaches deal with where you're
in the stands at Yukon or at Arizona State. My
time with the Celtics or the Suns, and you know,
something trade you made or something or a draftic you're
involved in didn't work out, and the fans a nice,
you know, bleeping trade or whatever, buddy, and you know,
you know, especially from a distance to me, I just

(04:44):
kind of compartmentalized that, and it was in one year out.
The other one interaction that is funnier in hindsight now
than at the time. Fad that I want to get
your take on is when I was general manager of
the Phoenix Suns and we made a few trades initially
that worked out very well, and then we made one
that did not work out well. The initial returns weren't great,
so I went across the street from the offices, which

(05:04):
were in downtown Phoenix, to open up a new bank account.
I think it was relative to no mortgage fees or
something like that. So I go into this bank. You know,
they have to fill out all the paperwork, you know,
your name, social Security number, what do you do? And
I was like, can I leave this one blank? No,
you got to fill out that your salary. So I
filled it all out, and these young guys at the
bank are looking at it like, well, we like the team,
but we don't like this guy, one specific player. We

(05:25):
don't like this guy. And you know, I just kind
of let it roll off my shoulders. And then they
brought it up again, and I'm sitting there thinking, you know,
the thought bubble, so well, I don't like your lack
of interest, I don't like your fees on, but I'm
not going to sit here and tell you all the
things I don't like about your bank and why you
guys aren't doing a great job. So I bring that
up because I think you'd be interesting to turn the

(05:46):
prism around, so to speak on that fan. And imagine
if Nico Harrison showed up at that guy's job wherever
he works that and whatever he does, and tapped on
his shoulder and said, how are are you? Such and
such a nice to meet you. By the way, here's
why I don't like you. It would be very inapprob
in that environment, and I think it hope most of
our listeners realize how inappropriate that interaction was.

Speaker 2 (06:05):
Well, Ryan, you grew up a big Boston Red Sox fan.
I have a story about Tim Nering, who is the
long time played some short and third for the team
and he has been a long time executive with the
New York Yankee's Hilarious Guy, and he tells his story
about how it was so off putting to him when
he first joined the Red Sox that he got booed
for every little thing he did wrong. And then he said,
I guess that's just how this community works. So we

(06:27):
go out to Legal Seafood. He'd order the shrimp scampy
with a salad with blue cheese, and then the woman
barber would come out with a salad with ranch. He'd
vault to his feet and he'd say he'd just start
booing barber and saying like this is ranch, not blue cheese,
and the whole breastroom like what the hell are you doing.
It's like, oh, I thought, just in this community, that's
how we treated each other. You just do this when

(06:48):
I'm at shortstop. It's not it doesn't translate to this,
and it's like, to your point, like, there's no other
walk of life where you can just absolutely eviscerate somebody
for faltering on their job, or maybe not even faltering
on their job, just having something included in their job
that you just don't agree with. Well, Tim Darren kind
of took that matter to his own hands.

Speaker 1 (07:08):
I love that story, and I have a few good
ones for my time with Boston. One guy, he was
a low level player. I'm not sure he was ever
at pro, but he thought he was. He showed up
right at our Praxe facility, Fad, dressed with a ball
under his arms that I'd like to try out for
the Celtics. We're like, this is not really how we
do things here. There's no open tryout today or anytime soon,
and so we thought he'd gone away Fad. And what

(07:29):
happened was when Doc Rivers left with their head coach
at the time, left the facility to drive home for
the night, the guy jumped out from behind a car
and slagging him down. He's like, hey, Doc, you're going home,
can you work me out now? And Doc's like, no,
that again, this is not how we do things. We
don't just not anybody can show up and just get
a workout, you know. And he gave the guy some
advice about hiring an agent and all those kind of
things as well. So you know, there's certainly some funny

(07:51):
interactions along the way. You know, most of it is
more that than what happened to Nico Harrison, but certainly,
you know, don't condone what happened to Nko. One final
story at that that I just thought of. I got
a letter when I was general manager of the Phoenix
Suns from a fan. I don't think he had any
relevant basketball experience, but he said he wanted to try
out for the team, and he realized that we were

(08:12):
in a financial crunch. So what he offered was to
play for a contract below the minimum salary. And you know,
I thought about it for a minute. I said, this
guy seems to have a not a full grasp and
understanding of what the minimum with the word minimum is
doing a lot of work here. He said he was
willing to play for less than the minimum. You know,
I had a number of problems with that. I'm not
sure I responded, may have sent him, you know, a

(08:34):
thank you note back in return, but he seemed to
be confused about the NBA salary structure and what you
could and couldn't do contractually.

Speaker 2 (08:41):
We could probably do a whole segment on this. I
have a quick story and then we'll get out of
the segment, which was that an agent reached out to
me and said, Hey, I've been connected contacted by a
guy in South Korea who claims to be have the
best knuckleball in all of South Korea. Would you guys
work him out? And we asked for all sorts of information.
He said, hey, listen, I just don't have it. All
knows he's got the best knuckleball in all South Korea.

(09:02):
We're like, okay, send him over to our spring training facility,
will work him out. Well, this guy shows up in
a limousine with his own personal catcher, walks out of
the of the limousine and our scouts watching, and he's
like holding you and he's like I'm fifty six years old,
and we're like end of workout. And from that moment forward,
we didn't trust that agent a whole lot.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
But if there's another major league movie that that should
be in it, then that absolutely should be in a
Major League three A fifty six year old South Korean
guy in a limousine with his own catcher. And on
a more serious baseball note, we're gonna have Scott's Service
coming up. Scott was an Olympian, a major league player,
front office executive, a manager, most recently for the Seattle Managers.
Scott Service has done it all in Major League baseball,

(09:45):
and he's going to share his incredible experiences with us
and with you listener. Right here on rosters, the rings,
stay with us.

Speaker 3 (09:50):
We be right back after this.

Speaker 2 (10:00):
Welcome back to rosters, to rings. Ryan and I are
extremely excited to welcome Scott's Service to the show. Scott
grew up in Coon Valley, Wisconsin. Drafted by the New
York Mets at a high school, Scott chose to go
to the Creighton in lieu of signing as an amateur.
Scott remarkably represented the United States in the Baseball World Cup,
Pan Am Games, Intercontinent Cup, and the Olympics, where he

(10:21):
won a gold medal. After his junior year at Creighton,
Scott was drafted and signed with the Houston Astros. He
embarked upon an eleven year major league career playing for
the Astros Cubs Rockies and Giants. After finishing his playing career,
Scott has excelled as a scout, Director of Minor League
Operations assistant GM before embarking on a nine year run

(10:42):
as the manager of the Seattle Mariners, amassing six hundred
and eighty wins and a five to forty one winning
percentage over his last four seasons. Scott now serves as
a coach and advisor for the San Diego Padres. Scott,
Welcome to Rosters, to Rings.

Speaker 3 (10:56):
Thanks to thanks for having me. Quite the introduction there, man,
you did your homework last. I know we known each
other a long time, but I appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
We have multiple traditions on the show. One is lavish introductions.
Another one is like we ask each guest who comes
on to share their sports origin story. What made you
fall in love with sports? Guy?

Speaker 3 (11:16):
Well, coming from a small town like you mentioned in
the baseball heartland of Wisconsin, you know that's where they
all come from. It's you know, I think growing up
in a small town certainly has a ton of advantages.
You know, you get you play with the same group
of kids growing up, and you become very competitive there.
And I was in a great situation. It is a
small town. It's a town of about five hundred people

(11:37):
joining towns. Made up one high school and love football, baseball,
basketball as a kid, playing up as a kid growing up.
But it's funny, it's probably a better football player than
I was baseball player as a kid. But I've definitely
made the right decision. Had a lot of guidance along
the way. You know, parents very involved, two younger brothers

(11:57):
probably you know a couple of guys I always get
credit to is I had two uncles that were very
involved in baseball. Uncle Ed became a long time college coach,
just retired a long term run at Creighton as the
head coach there. And another uncle, Mark was a scout
for over four years, so they understood the game. They
kind of saw my future maybe in the game. And

(12:19):
at the time, I was just trying to figure out
a way to get a college scholarship. Could I play
college baseball? And lo and behold, you know, was drafted
out of high school, decided to go to college, which
is a great call, but just fell in love with
the competition. And that's when it's always been a big
part of it for me. No matter what I'm doing
it's playing golf with a bunch of guys or getting
a chance to compete at the highest level in the

(12:40):
major leagues. It's about competing and that was always that
way for me from an early age. Scout.

Speaker 1 (12:46):
We'll get into your Major League Baseball career in a minute.
I think that's how a lot of our listeners identify
you as a player and then as a manager and executive.
Take us inside your time for USA Baseball with in
the World Cup, the pan In Games, the Internet Intercontinental Cup,
in the Olympics. That must have been a special time
to represent your country. It's a honor for some people
to do it. Once you did it in a number

(13:07):
of times. What stands out to you as you reflect
on that time.

Speaker 3 (13:11):
Well, the Olympics back then were a little bit different.
Certainly there was no professionals involved. It was all amateur players,
and it was a great opportunity for me coming from
a smaller school like Creighton, getting a chance to compete
with the best players in the country at the time
and then realize, you know what, I can hang with
these guys. So it was a big confidence boost for
me personally and propelled me on in my pro career,

(13:32):
but great memories, you know, going through it with a
group of guys at the nineteen twenty and twenty one
years old awesome experience. I think that Olympic team had
seven or eight first round drafts on that team, just
the notable pitchers, you know, Jim Abbott, then McDonald, Andy Bennis,
guys that we're all went on to have great careers.
But I learned a ton. You know, you're playing at

(13:53):
a very high level, the highest level of amateur ball
at the time, and learned a ton from with those
guys and from the coach staff at the time, so
legendary college coaches was exposed to, you know, Skip Bourbon,
Mark Marcus Ron, those guys. So just guys that were
just legends in the game. And at the time I
didn't really know what I was experiencing. But when I

(14:13):
got out of that and into pro ball, I was
able to move through the minor leagues much quicker because
I had those experiences and exposed to that type of coaching.

Speaker 2 (14:21):
One thing I hope the listeners appreciate and will be
a theme of this conversation, it's just how unique your
background is. I mean, it is pretty atypical and maybe
it was perfect timing Scotty, because like this generation of
players doesn't necessarily get to play in all those amateur events,
but for you to represent the United States and all
those events, but also for you to do all the
things you've done in front offices is a there's a

(14:43):
theme here. You've done some pretty remarkable things. But I
want to take you back to before you ultimately signed
with Houston in nineteen eighty eight. Kind of a fun
story for you is the engagement you had with three
different guys who went on to be general managers of
baseball teams. Kind of happens you cross paths with each
of those guys before you started your pro career.

Speaker 3 (15:02):
Yeah, it was. It was kind of wild. Again growing
up in a small town, the draft was much different
than it is now. Certainly there's nothing on computer or
TV anything like that. It was nothing more on the
phone call. But I was a senior in high school
and I got drafted in the second round out of
high school by the New York Mets. And I'll throw
nineteen eighty five. The New York Mets were everything. You
know what I mean. It's the height of it. It's
doc good and it's Lenny, It's everything you know, the

(15:25):
mets Worth at the time. So I get drafted in
the second round there in the area. Scout who drafted
me was a gentleman by the name of Terry Ryan.
Terry's from Wisconsin. I was a player in his area.
I never expected to get drafted that high. I thought
I was going to be a twenty to thirtieth round
pick and the kid that would go on to school.
But all of a sudden, you know, you get drafted
Nike was the forty third pick in the country or

(15:47):
something like that, And back then you had the whole
summer to kind of negotiate and figure out where you're
gonna go, you're gonna sign, you go to college. I
made the decision to go to college. I thought it
was the best thing for me to do at that time.
Coming from a small town, it needed that experience to
get away and go play at a little bit higher level.
And didn't quite know if I was ready to go
out and play baseball, which did not make mister Ryan

(16:08):
very happy at all, as he had stuck his neck
out to make the draft choice. But along the way,
I had been recruited to go to Creighton. The head
coach at the time was a guy man named Jim
Henry who went on to become the GM of the Cubs.
And so I went from Terry Ryan said no to him,
said yes to Jim Henry. I went off to Creyton,
played there, really grew up as a as a young person,

(16:30):
I like I needed at college experience and then get
drafted by the Astros. And my first exposure to professional
baseball just coming off the Olympics was to go to
instruction League, which happened in early October, and at the
time the first catching instructor I showed up there was
a guy by the name of John Hart, who ended
up to become a longtime general manager of the Cleveland
Indians at the time and then with the Texas Rangers.

(16:52):
And John was kind of between jobs at the time.
He had been with Baltimore ultimately landed in Cleveland, but
at the time he was the catching instructor. So I
came across quite an array of experienced baseball people. And
you're lucky. You never know what's going to happen in
your career, but right place, right time, a lot of
good experiences with some very knowledgeable people and it certainly

(17:14):
paid dividends.

Speaker 2 (17:15):
For me my hunches. You may have some colorful stories
emanating from your time with at least Jim Henry out
of that trio. I don't know if those are all
appropriate for the show, but maybe if we have time
after the break, we can hit a few Jim Henry stories.

Speaker 3 (17:29):
Yeah. You learn a lot from a lot of different people,
a lot of different personalities, and I've been fortunate run
across a lot of great people throughout the years of
my career.

Speaker 1 (17:38):
And Omaha is a great sports town for folks who
haven't been there listening to this show. That was one
of my favorite places to go. Scout basketball players at
Creighton obtoually they have the College World Series every year.
That's a must attend events. And Scott, I want to
get a little bit more into kind of how your
path shaped you as a manager. You manage the Mariners
for almost a decade. You've done everything, as Dad mentioned

(17:59):
in the intro, major League player, Scout, Minor League Director,
assistant GM, currently working in the Padres front office. But
before you got that job in Seattle leading the dugout
as the manager, how did all those steps along the
way influence how you approach your job as the manager
of the Seattle Matters.

Speaker 3 (18:18):
That's a great question, Ryan, and I think it really
gives you an appreciation for what different people throughout an
organization do. And I think unless you've ever really, you know,
set in those seats or work side by side with
those people, you don't have a true appreciation what it is.
It is so hard to scout, and certainly amateur scout
when you're going to look at young players before they

(18:38):
even get into pro ball and making a decision on that.
So having the ability to do that, I have a
really a big time appreciation for how hard it is
to get the no players not just break down the skills,
but understand the makeup and what makes them tick. And
then you know, you move into pro scouting. And I
had an opportunity to do that for a while before
I became a farm director, and you realize how hard
it is to make trades and put together other rosters

(19:01):
within a front office and understanding that every team values
different things. So the more experiences you get there, it
helps you make better decisions along the way. I think
being a farm director kind of was my first jump
into a real front office, opportunity to work with John
Daniels at the time, I think was the youngest GM
of the game. FAD was there, AJ Preller was there

(19:21):
and myself, and that really opened a lot of doors
for me and exposure. JD THEAD were great, allowing me
to get in and have a voice as you're going
through trade discussions and how to put rosters together and
how to develop players and move players throughout a minor
league system and what we valued at the time, and
spending time with AJ Preller back in the day, I

(19:42):
learned a lot about how to you know, evaluate players
and what he was looking at, and you know, all
those experiences really grew into allowing me, I thought, to
have a clear grasp of what everybody within an organization
does on the baseball operation side. So when you're sitting
in the manager's seat, instead of it creeping into your head,
how or why would we make that trade or why

(20:03):
did we do this? I understood there was a lot
of voices that go into making those decisions and how
important is to trust people in those spots, and you know,
you just trust those people to do their job, because
at one point, maybe I was sitting in that seat
and I wanted to be trusted, so that's what I
tried to do. And I really enjoyed my time in
cl and those those jobs leading up to that opportunity,

(20:24):
I think made me a better manager.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
You know, Ryan, just a way in here, and I'd
be curious your take on the NBA side of this.
But when I started working in the game and Scott
and I started write around the same time, in the
front office, there was kind of a division between the
manager's office in the front office, and effectively the front
office was putting the roster together and the manager didn't
really participate in that process a ton. And then the

(20:46):
manager was managing the roster to try to win games
at night, and the front office wasn't really participating in that.
So as as Scott is unfolding, like his background and
his experience, I think today's managers tend to a spot
to integrate with the scouting department, the player development departments,
the front office is it's a really hard thing to
do just because of the sheer demands on their time.

(21:10):
The fact that I will say, just from working with Scott,
he does that. He does that exception well because he
cares about it and he's you know, intentionally committed to it.
But it's kind of still an exception in our sport
to have a manager who is that integrated. And I
think some micromanage, you know, so they are super involved
because they want to run everything. That wasn't the way
Scott did it. He was integrative and he elevated people

(21:32):
around him. And I just think that was a unique
element for me as I was growing in my career
to see a manager do it as thoroughly and intentionally
as Scott did. But how does that play out in
the NBA? Is there that division of church and state
or is there more integration now in today's NBA.

Speaker 1 (21:46):
I think over the past twenty years there's definitely more
integration than there was that when I started in the
middle of the two thousand and two two thousand and
three season, there was a school of thought, especially from
some of the older school coaches. Hey, you guys, bring
the players in. I'll stay out of your lane, but
you stay out of ours. Don't try to coach them.
You know, what happens in the locker room is up
to us. And I just think now with most organizations,

(22:08):
you're not going to be effective and efficient running it
that way. You know, how could if you and I
are in the front office and Scott, is he, you know,
the head coach or the manager in this example, how's
he going to coach the players if the guy doesn't
fit what he's looking for, or if it's not core
to his principles and what he's trying to bring into
a locker room or into a dugout. So it's really
fascinating that and I'd love to get your take on it, Scott.

(22:31):
The question now for a lot of NBA franchises is
where does player development fit on the spectrum, because there
still is a divide, you know, some extent between the
front office over here and either the manager or the
head coach over here. But player development is an interesting
one that I don't want to get your take on
it as well, maybe after Scott, for a while that
was under the umbrella of the coach, right, that was

(22:51):
an extension of the coaches, and hey, leave it to
the coaches again. You guys bring in the players, will
develop them. But now some of the organization, the NBA
are saying, wait a minute, these are our best young players,
our best young assets. From a trade perspective, as well,
we're not necessarily just going to delegate to that to
the coach or the manager whose job it is to
try to win every night. That's not fair to them

(23:12):
and it's not maximizing talent. So Scott, I'd love to
get your take on that. You know, what you've seen
in Major League Baseball, what you guys did with the Mariners,
and where you think kind of the balances between player development,
you know, with with kind of the front office on
one side and the manager head coach on the other.

Speaker 3 (23:27):
I think it's an awesome question. It's really something that
is the forefront of what goes on in all professional sports.
You've got to continue to develop players even when they're
at the highest level. And certainly as you're putting rosters together,
you know you're going to have your maybe your more
veteran players, your higher dollar players, but you're also you're
always going to be supplemented by the younger players that
are coming in. You just need them and they have

(23:49):
to get better. And I think that everybody needs to
have a hand in that. And I think as we've
seen front offices and their game evolve over time, that's
where the analytics, the information is really come in and
become valuable. So I love to talk about analytics and
information and it can be used in real time to
help you make awesome decisions or better decisions in the
course of a game. But it's also a huge tool

(24:11):
that needs to be used in the development of a player,
and so many people can weigh in on those you
know what's important. Certainly each organization has the things that
they value more than others. But you know, you'll have
an analytical department that you as a head coach or
somebody that's leading a group of coaches, a coaching staff.
We have to stay in tune to what those people

(24:32):
value and they need to have a voice. And I
just believe that, like, I'm not smart enough to have
all the answers not inclose, so I'm going to lean
on the people around me. And I think that's what
good organizations do, is that they let everybody have a voice,
understanding that it may not always go the way you
want it to go, but collectively, you're trying to make
good decisions for your players so they can grow and
get better. And that takes It takes an experienced baseball guy,

(24:55):
it may take a younger person that is very dialed
into the number and realizes, hey, there's a red flag,
or this pitcher needs to use this pitch a little
bit more, this pitch, this hitter needs to control the
strike zone a little bit better. You know, how do
we go about doing that? So it takes a lot
of different people involved in having a voice and to
have a really good organization. And I think the good

(25:15):
organizations in baseball do that. They do have to have,
but ultimately the person who's sitting in the manager seat
has to let the information flow. I think when they
don't let it flow and don't let people have a voice,
then you have an issue and you're not getting the
most out of your assets, like you said, Ryan, and
that's the players, Scott.

Speaker 2 (25:33):
Any one more phase into this too, is you as
the manager, are you know, somewhat singularly responsible for wins
and losses? You know, when Ryan and I get interviewed,
nobody puts up underneath our name, Hey, our career record
is this. But oftentimes, you know, pivotal times in the year,
they'll pan to you in the dugout and it will
show you your record either for that year or for

(25:53):
previous year. So how do you balance the developing those
players at the major league level, and also the pressure
to win night in and night out.

Speaker 3 (26:01):
Yeah, I think you have to know where you're at
in your window, so to speak, with your team. And
you know, I had the ability to be in Seattle
long enough, or we went through different phases. When I
first got the job there, I took over a very
veteran club, you know, with Felix Ordandis and Robinson Cano,
Nelson Cruz, Kyle Seeger was kind of our core four guys,
and you know, and then you know, as a veteran team,

(26:23):
you're going to deal with that team a little bit differently,
you know, as you do. And then we did kind
of a rebuild after twenty eighteen. We stepped back, We
traded off a lot of those players. We realized that
we needed to have a more a fuller roster. We
just couldn't be so top heavy and doing that and
that kind of that step back or rebuild period. Now
it's a little bit different. You know, it is all
on player development at that point. Who is going to

(26:44):
help us here when we come out of this phase
and where we're at, so to speak, in our organizational window,
which we did, And I think we actually did an
awesome job with it thanks to you know, our front
office there and what we're able to do on the field.
So now you kind of move back into a little
bit more of a competitive, winning environment, which we did
in Seattle and throughout that whole time. Player development is

(27:06):
it's got to be still at the forefront. I've got saying.
I know coaches that work with me, players that were
around me and get tired of me saying it, but
it doesn't matter. Get better, DMGB. It's It's something that
I truly believe in because I think that's what all
the great athletes over time, they do have a growth mindset.
I look at it like you know that Tom Brady's
the Kobe Bryant of the world. Like these guys are

(27:28):
great talents, but they're driven to get better all the time.
And I don't think players ever stay the same. I
think they get better, they get worse, you know. I
mean it can be, it can fluctuate from day to
week to month how it goes, but the focus has
always got to be on getting better, you know. And
it doesn't matter if you're ten for your last twenty
and you're killing it, or if you're an over thirty five,

(27:48):
it doesn't matter. You just got to focus on getting better.
And that's that's a big thing with player development, and
it is tied to the window and how much patience
you need to have with that. But tied to patience
is always urgency. You want to win tonight's game, you know,
So it kind of goes hand in hand.

Speaker 2 (28:03):
Scott.

Speaker 1 (28:03):
In the NBA, the agents tell me the players actually
never get worse, they only get better, and they have
the stats to back it up. Every every contract negotiation,
you know, some cockamami stat that doesn't make sense to me,
but there's a reason why should double or triple the
guy's salary.

Speaker 3 (28:17):
No, in all.

Speaker 1 (28:17):
Seriousness, in your role, you know, I guess as a
as a player, you know, being a catcher, being a
leader in the clubhouse. You know, how much of an
impact do you think when you compare what you were
able to do as an active Major League Baseball player
and then what you're able to do as a manager
in terms of impacting clubhouse culture. Because one of the
things I think a lot of people who have never
worked in sports don't realize is.

Speaker 2 (28:39):
Just how fragile that is.

Speaker 1 (28:41):
And I know you two guys know that, but it's
it's here today, the team's won five games in a row,
everything's looking up, and then next week you lose five
in a row, and it's easy to feel like the
sky is falling and everybody's kind of walking on eggshells.
And if you don't have a great culture, maybe pointing
fingers elsewhere. So how did you manage that? And where
do you think you know, the impact falls between the
players on your active roster and the manager and coaching

(29:02):
staff in terms of establishing and then perpetuating that culture.

Speaker 3 (29:07):
Yeah, it's huge, It really is, Ryan, And I think
that the word culture get used a lot of gets
thrown around on a lot of different conversations, and it
means different things to different people. For me and the
group that I was around, and cultures are it's really
your standards. And I think as a player, as a coach,
as a manager, you know you are you all want
to be tied to the standards, you know what I mean,

(29:29):
And the standards shouldn't really waver And it's not just
what you stand up and say, Okay, these are our standards.
This is what we're going to believe in this, how
we're gonna let your standards are actually plays out. You know,
how are we acting, how are we behaving? You know,
and and you know what do we hold near and
dear to our hearts? And for me, it was always
about our standards are going to be you know, we are,
how we're going to prepare, you know, how we're going

(29:51):
to take constructive criticism. There's a certain standard we want
to go about it. We don't want to be defensive.
We want to just focus on getting better. So being
able to take you know, constructive feed is huge, but
culture is always you know, it lines up with your standards,
is how I would look at it, and it's critical.
I think the teams that have sustained success for a
long time have very consistent standards. And it can start

(30:14):
with coaches talking about it and driving it and acting
it out and modeling the behavior. But ultimately it's on
the players. You know, the players play the game. I
love players. I played the game a long time. Often
joke with people I watched the game through a catcher's mask.
That's how I view the game and that's never going
to change. I just spent too much time. I don't
know all the ins and outs and the mechanics of

(30:36):
pitching in all the different positions. But I know what
it's supposed to look like. I've watched it enough, and
you know, as long as we're doing the right thing
standards wise, your culture should be able to withstand the
ups and downs of a five or six game losing streak,
and then you know, obviously along the way you're going
to ride the fourteen game winning streak. You know that'll
sneak in once in a while and surprise everybody, but

(30:56):
it's huge. But I go back to get I think
that the teams, the organizations that do it well over
a long period of time, they have very distinct standards
that are very clearly lined out.

Speaker 2 (31:06):
Scott, just as a quick follow up to that, you know,
I think you're known throughout the industry as being somebody
who really genuinely cares a lot about culture. I think
there are a lot of teams that just subscribe to
the theory that kind of Ryan alluded to upfront, of Hey,
if we're winning, we're gonna have good culture. If for losing,
we're gonna have bad culture. Have never been in a
clubhouse where the team's doing well that they're not having
fun never been in a clubhouse where the team's doing

(31:27):
poorly that they are having fun. You've never really subscribed
to that. Can you can you kind of share with
the listeners, like a few of your favorite culture building
exercises that you found successful when you're trying to build
that culture in those standards.

Speaker 3 (31:40):
Yeah, I really value it, and it's something that is
very intentional. And every year I would start in spring training.
And I love spring training. Obviously, it's it's new, it's fresh,
everybody's worked a tailoff all off season. We're all going
to have our career year. But in spring training, typically
major legue spring training, you might have seventy players in camp.
Well maybe thirty to thirty five of those players in

(32:02):
that clubhouse or the first time they're in their clubhouse.
Maybe you've acquired that player through free agency, trade. It's
a younger player who's graduated from the minor leagues and
now he's in the big league clubhouse. And I just thought,
you know, when you have seventy people in a room,
how quickly can you break down the walls? How quickly
can you get people vulnerable? So you start to buy
into each other. And you know, I tried some things

(32:22):
early on, and it became a staple for me. I
used to have a meeting every morning for about thirty minutes,
and in that course of that meeting, I would interview players,
you know, and I'd start with the basic where you're from,
did you play any other sports in high school? Tell
us about your family, you know, those type of things,
and get into the questions. And I always at some

(32:42):
point within it, you know, like, you know, if you
could pick any people, three other people in the world
to play golf with, what's your foursome look like? And
who's your favorite football team? You just find out about people.
And through the course of that interview, of course we're
using the audio visual. These guys put everything on Instagram
and social so you're having fun with it. You know,
it's what they dressed up as at a Halloween party
when they're in high school. You can pull all this

(33:04):
stuff up off the internet. So we're having fun along
the way. But ultimately, you know, I get into the questions,
you know, who's your hero, and that person is up
in front of Like I go back to the first
couple of years I did this, and it's the rookie
who is literally he's shaking. You know, he's so nervous
up there is he's talking and it's Nelson Cruz and

(33:24):
Robinson Cano and Felix Ornandez that are out there listening
to him, you know. And then you get into you know,
what's your hardship and everybody in that room has had
to overcome something to get into the room. It's a
big deal to be in a major league camp for
the first time. And then you know what's your highlight,
you know what has stood out for you, and they
might be they want to, you know, state championship in
high school. It may be different things on a personal note,

(33:47):
but it always led to other activities off the field.
And I would make guys go out to dinner together
and do different things, and ultimately, you know, somebody what's
your hobby and somebody who you know I you know,
he played a musical instrument. That always led to us
putting a band together, you know what I mean. In
the spring training club, so I want it to be fun.
I want it to be you know, when the guys
took the field every morning in spring training had a

(34:09):
smile on their face, bring back a crazy memory. Leonis
Martin was a player that we had in Texas and
I brought him. He was in Seattle with us and
it was his birthday. And Leonis is a big personality.
He's a fun guy. And we hired a mariachi band
to follow him around the field the entire day with
the big sembreros and they went on the field with him.

(34:29):
They were in the batting cage with them. They spent
about three hours, and then a couple more players stepped
up and they paid for the band to stay there
the entire day and just falling around the field. So again,
you're trying to do things to loosen up the group,
to have fun, to have memory, because it is a
long season and you're gonna have to grind through and
there's gonna be ups and downs. And I really thought
it was important for our guys to walk on the

(34:50):
field every day joking and laughing and having a smile
on their face.

Speaker 2 (34:54):
You know, Scott, One of the themes that we've we've
learned on the show is just these players are revered,
coaches are revered, even front office people are revered, but
we want to make them relatable. And what you're talking
about is the human side of things, you know, professional
baseball players, professional basketball players. They are excellent at one thing,
maybe excellent at more than one thing, but not at everything.

(35:14):
And what you just alluded to, you know, getting up
in front of a group of people and talking is
mortifying like that. Maybe I don't know who you're talking
about there. Maybe that's cal Raley, maybe that's Julio Rodriguez.
But the point is they shine in extremely pressure situations.
Speaking in front of a group can be very crippling.
You're humanizing them and making them a little bit vulnerable.
That makes them so much more endearing to their teammates

(35:37):
rather than just being known for the stats they put
up on the big board.

Speaker 3 (35:41):
Yeah. I don't want to wait till June or July,
till somebody figures out that this person grew up outside
Philadelphia and a huge Eagles fan, you know what I mean?
Like those things need to be like I want to
create that vulnerability and the connection as quick as they could.
And I love doing it. I love doing it. I
did it myself. I'd sit home every night it's been
about an hour before the morning meeting the next day
because I can get up and fake it. You have
to be authentic, you have to do a little bit

(36:02):
of the research yourself and understand, and then there'll be
something that comes out. So it was almost like, you know,
you're you're hosting a little bit of a late night
talk show or a comedy show. And we had a
lot of fun with it, and the guys had fun
with me. They would fire back at me, they would,
you know, give me a hard time again. I want
to be vulnerable. I'm not perfect. I may be sitting
in the manager's chair, but I know I'm going to
screw up at certain points of the season. It happens

(36:24):
to all of us. But I really wanted to bring
teams together and I thought it really helped us over time.

Speaker 1 (36:29):
Scott, I love that story about the Mariachi band. In fact,
that has suggested something similar here on Rosters to Rings,
where we have a trumpeter who announces his presence kind
of like in medieval times, you know, before he makes
decrees and statements here on the podcast. On a more
serious note, you know, one of the things that well,
we'll look at the budget that we'll see if we

(36:50):
can bring it in maybe for next season. One of
the things that that said about you, Scott, that you've
done that I found really interesting is establishing leadership council
on the teams comprise the players. That's been a debate,
you know, with different managers and coaches I've been around
in terms of is leadership appointed, you know, is it
your best player? Is it guys, maybe not your best player,

(37:12):
but the best natural leader that others gravitate to. One
coach I had, you know, I was around the first
preseason game. He wouldn't send anybody out to half court
with the captain's meet in the NBA, and I asked
him why he did that. He said, well, I want
to see who wanted to be out there. You know,
not everybody wants to be out there. So when the
officials meet, and you know, they go over the game
ball and shake hands and talk about the game that night,

(37:32):
there's usually at least one, two or three guys. One
coach that I'm not going to send anybody out there.
I just want to see who goes. So I think
that that's so fascinating it And so when Dad mentioned
the leadership council that you established, I want to see
kind of how you did that and what went into
your thought process as far as putting that together.

Speaker 3 (37:48):
Yeah, we did different things at different times. It kind
of depends you know where your team is at. Like
I said, when I first started, we had more of
a veteran team. It was kind of a natural to
see that those four or five guys were going to
be part of that group. You know, as we transition
our roster, you know, you want to create opportunities in
a platform for younger players to grow. I think we
talked throughout all a sport now, is that the number

(38:11):
of people in each professional sport that you can stand
up and look around the league and say that guy
is a leader, and everybody says, oh, we need more
leaders in our clubhouse. But I don't think we do
a good enough job of creating and teaching and coaching
up leadership. And how do you do that? You gotta
have conversations with players, but more importantly, you've got to
create a platform for that player to feel comfortable. And
it may be in a hitter's meeting, it may be

(38:31):
in a pitcher's meeting, it may grow out of something else.
There may be something that happens around the team. And
I'm going to get the advice of you know, maybe
three or four guys that initially did not start out
as the leadership, but they grew into it. I think
my time in Seattle Cal Rowley certainly I'm in a
fantastic season, but he has those qualities. JP Crawford is
a guy who has grown into those type of things

(38:52):
because he's a guy that I wanted to include in
discussions and let him know what I was thinking about
certain things, are different situations on the team and get
their their inside because the game is about the players,
you know. Like I said, I played a long time
and I often felt that I enjoyed it most when
I felt that the manager and the coaching staff really
trusted the players. So you got to show them that

(39:13):
you trust them and you are going to listen to
their opinion and it may disagree with what I'm thinking
or what they're with the coaching staff is thinking, but
sometimes you roll with it because the players are going
to They're going to make make or break yet and
you really have to trust them. So, you know, getting
those guys involved in different decisions throughout the year, not
in game decisions, but it's more things around the team
that are happening. Maybe it's it's a certain practice schedule,

(39:35):
or maybe we need to back off or maybe need
to push a little bit harder. I always wanted to
include players in those decisions.

Speaker 2 (39:40):
Scott On One thing we touched upon earlier is just
how much more information there is in the game today
than there once was. I'd be curious just if you
could give us your perspective when you were a catcher
preparing for a game, what level of information was there
versus when you were a manager preparing for a game? Like,
how how give us a level set? Like how much
more information is there today than there once was?

Speaker 3 (40:03):
One thousandfold? I mean it's crazy.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
Well, what did you go into a game with? Typically
when you were a catcher, what'd you have at your disposal?

Speaker 3 (40:09):
Yeah, this is back in the mid to late nineties,
and I had a book. You know, I think most
catchers would keep a book, and it was really up
to the catcher and the pitching coach to kind of
come up with the game plan based on the team
you were facing. You know what I mean. Back in
the day, the Atlanta Braves were everything right. They were dominating.
They had a very good, good lineup, they had great pitching.
But you know how I'm going to keep the game
close enough to keep their lineup down, so you spend

(40:32):
a lot of time. You know, you did have advanced scouts,
and at the time, advanced scouts would actually fed x
envelopes in which had their handwritten notes on them. Sometimes
you would get on a call. I played for Dusty
Baker for a year and a half. We're in San Francisco,
and they allowed the catchers to come into the advanced
meeting with the coaching staff and on the speakerphone in
the room would be the advanced scout. He'd be breaking

(40:53):
down the team that he had just watched that team
play for maybe three or four days. He'd be breaking
down the tendencies and where we needed to go based
on our players. So that's kind of what it was
like back then, you know. I mean where we're at today,
it's night and day, and I think it's in a
good way. I love all the information. It's a challenge
to prepare, to try to come up with that edge,
to try to win the game on the margin, so

(41:14):
to speak. But I've also really want players to be involved.
It's something that we did over in Seattle. Get the
catchers involved. They're in the meetings, they're having a voice,
they're running the meetings so that they're taking ownership in it.
It's not a coach or an advanced scout sitting up
and you know, proclaiming this is how we need to
pitch this guy, and here's what we need to do

(41:34):
against this hitter. You know, it's getting the players involved,
I think is really valuable. But the information is good.
I do believe that it has to be put in
a format that players and coaches can understand it, because
if not, you can basically walk up the paper or
take the computer and throw in the trash. It has
to be relatable. It has to be in a language

(41:56):
that is very easy for players to understand and then
also be able to put it in real time, you
know what I mean. You see a lot of catchers
in today's game will have the catcher card, you know
what I mean, on the risk the risk band, and
you know quarterbacks have it in the NFL. I get
all that, but it's got to be in a way
that is it can help us in real time make
that decision. And oftentimes it's you're on the bubble, you know,

(42:19):
is this guy, you know, is he super aggressive with
two strikes or runners in scoring position? Having the color
coded card. You know, it's just a reminder, you know,
that's on the catcher's risk. And you know, I think
the good organizations take the information. The people who are
putting the information together and developing it are doing it
through a lens of how is this going to play
out in the game. And I think once they understand

(42:41):
that there's some information, it's great to have, but it
really doesn't play in the game. And trying to get
it all streamlines so players can actually use it and
use it to the benefit it's huge. It's not easy,
but I think the good organizations do a really good
job at it.

Speaker 2 (42:55):
I think there's been such a huge influx of information,
and I think the challenges as you you said, it's
not the first team who has the biggest three ring binder,
it's the team that makes the information most actionable. And
I think you touched on this earlier, Scotti, but the
you know, it used to be when we started with
these analytics groups, they were sitting in a dark room
together and every once a week we throw a hamsteak

(43:16):
in there in a bottle of fabriz and tell them
to freshen up. Now they're part of your staff, right
like there you know, in some cases they're in uniform,
they're on the field, and part of the magic here
is knowing all your players and knowing how they learn.
Do they learn by video, do they learn by hands on?
Do they need a piece of paper? But then empowering
your analytics team to actually interact directly with the player

(43:37):
and not feel like they have to filter through the
pitching coach who's filtering through you. And then also the
message gets watered down. Obviously they have to work in
concert with you, guys, but when they're part of your staff,
I think that's when it's achieving the best that which
is making this information actionable.

Speaker 3 (43:51):
It really is, and it's a challenge because you're often
dealing with much younger people who have much less experience,
or they're not as comfortable in a clubhouse. I haven't
been around it, maybe like coaches or the manager has
been his whole life. So trying to get those people
as comfortable as quickly as we can. It's also an opportunity.
I go back to my meetings in spring training and
trying to get those people vulnerable. They are going to

(44:14):
be the smartest people in the room. There's a question
about that, but what do they bring to the mix
to help us win that night. And as quick as
you can get the players to understand that this person
is really a benefit to us and it's going to
make us better. Now, all of a sudden, they've gained
credibility and they can have a voice and they can
go with it from there. But it takes time, you
know what I mean, it really does. I've loved the

(44:35):
people I've worked with. I've learned a lot from a
lot of very young guys, and I look at the
game a little bit differently now than maybe I did
seven or eight years ago. And the fact that I'm
able to trust those people and lean on them, it's
very empowering to them. They feel like they have a
real voice in the outcome of the game every night.
So now I've got more people on my side of

(44:55):
the streets, so to speak. They're all pulling on the
same side of the same end of the rope and
ultimately just trying to win games and get players better.
And that's one thing I've been very transparent about with players.
It's the end of the day, you know, players want
to play, they want to compete, they want to have fun.
They also want to take care of their families, and
if you can explain the information to them to help
them in a particular in their particular area of how

(45:16):
they can get better, and this is going to help
maybe help make you millions of dollars. I don't know
too many players who won't listen to that if it's
explained in them correctly, with the right intent behind it.
And if that player makes more money's probably more valuable
and we're going to win more games. We all benefit.
And by like I said, learning a lot from our
analytical group and how to go about that, it's been

(45:37):
very beneficial for me and the coaches I've worked with.

Speaker 1 (45:40):
And I think one of the challenges, at least in
the NBA is some of the guys who were the
best at compiling the numbers putting them together or not
necessarily the same guys you'd want presenting to a clubhouse
to a locker room in the NBA, So how do
you filter that information? I think the messenger can be important,
and like you said, Scott, and that's becoming more accepted
for a quantity looking guy so to speak, to use

(46:01):
the term from the financial Marcus to deliver that data.
But that's still something that there is a bit of
a barrier, at least in the NBA in terms of
how the data is delivered. And along those lines, Scott,
I want to stay on the theme of data and
numbers and go back to your time with the Mariners.
One of the great stats that that pulled when you
were managing the club is there are a couple of
years your team's had a negative run differentials, but you

(46:23):
had winning records eighty nine wins one year, ninety the other.
So how much of that data did you lean on?
And were there times where, like you said, you're a catcher,
you view the game through that prism. Yeah, I'm sure
you knew all the information and we're extremely well prepared
as a manager, But how often, if ever, did you say,
you know what, I know what the numbers say, but
I've been watching this for seven eight innings now my
gut tells me to do this, even it's completely opposite

(46:45):
of what the numbers said.

Speaker 3 (46:46):
Yeah, there's a time you have to, like, you go
against the numbers a little bit, just because you're watching
the game. The game is telling you something and you're
really in tune to it and listening to it and
there's times, based on where you're at in the season
that you know you're going to give certain players, players
a little bit more rope. Let's find out some things
in April and May, which may change once you're August
and September, you know what I mean. So I think

(47:08):
you know that that run differential. I kind of joked
with it one year. I called it fun differential, you
know what I mean? And everybody wants to look at
the negative run differential, and I flipped it one day
and it just came out, and you know, we had
some you know, literally had fun with it. But it's
about winning games, and you know it's, yeah, we want
to win every night by you know, five six runs.
It's not realistic. And I went into my time in

(47:31):
Seattle talking based on the ballpark we were playing in.
It's is a very picture friendly park. We're going to
play a lot of close games, a lot of one
run games. Those can go either way, you know what
I mean. How do we get on the right side
of those more times than not by being very fundamentally strong,
being prepared, and just trying to put players in position
where they have the best chance to succeed. And sometimes

(47:54):
you go against you know what the numbers say, and
we have all the matrix cards and everything else you
hold in front of you that says predictive outcomes of
this particular at bats. Sometimes you just got to go
against it. You ride it. Other times you stay committed
to it. I think over the course of time, I
probably stayed more committed to it because I think if
you ride it out over and over and over, things

(48:14):
will turn in your favor over the course of a season.
And they did that for so again. It's it's you're
having a feel for your team when to interject the
information and make a decision based on it, and then
when to just step back and let the players play,
let them go.

Speaker 2 (48:28):
You just got it. I think. I think you shed
light on something that really is important to me. I
think it's great to be informed by all the information,
but you've got to give the guys in the front
line the ability to make real time decisions. Like you,
you're getting information seriously real time, like before the game,
you're you're walking the outfield, you're talking to your pitching
coach and you're being told like, hey, listen, and we
probably should steer clear of this guy tonight. Out of

(48:50):
our pen because you know, maybe something's going on at
home and his and his head's not really in it,
but your card says that's absolutely the right guy to
pitch at that time. You've got to be able to pivot.
And and so I think I think the best teams
that I've been around, they have the most elite information.
They informed their decisions that way, but they give the
guys on the front line the unilateral right to just
step in and say, hey, this is our call right

(49:13):
here based upon the information we have. And one thing,
you know, Scott's a very humble guy, but I just
want to touch on something you just reference the one
run games. Another thing in our research for you, you
are the major league manager, the leader in the major
leagues in one run game winning percentage. I don't even
know if you know that. You've won fifty seven percent
of your one run games one hundred and eighty six

(49:35):
and one forty and just from a fans perspective, obviously
you should win about half of your one run games.
Scott's winning fifty seven percent of them. That tracks to
a ninety two win season just in one run games.
Like that's a playoff team, like, so whatever, system you
were employing was working. You know, the run differential. As
Ryan said, you had the ninety win season, your run

(49:56):
differential would have suggested you should have been fourteen games
under five or it was a fourteen game span of
a differential between where you were supposed to be versus
where you ended up. Those are not small numbers, you know,
Like that does happen from time to time in the game.
It doesn't happen with the consistency we saw with the
Seattle Mariners. We were friends through that time, but it
was something that I marveled at from Afar just watching

(50:18):
your team perform. Teams don't normally perform that well with
negative run differentials or one run games. The information you
were deploying to help you make decisions, coupled with your
instincts had to have just been a real competitive advantage
for that franchise.

Speaker 3 (50:34):
We had good players too, Let's not forget that. I
do think, you know, like I talked about it earlier,
I've been I was very like open and upfront talking
about it from the first day I took on the
Mariner's job that we were going to play in a
lot of one run games. How do you know that
I'm just I have a feeling this is how it's
going to play out. This is our rosters are going

(50:54):
to be put together, and understanding the impact that bullpen
plays had very good bullpens in Seattle. We were able
to figure some things out getting players in the right
spots that maybe you know, they weren't maybe valued in
the industry that much, but they could do one thing
really well. Let's focus on what that player does well
and then try to put him in the pockets in
an opposing lineup that he has a chance to have success.

(51:17):
So we spend a ton of time every day in
our prep before the game, sitting down with pitching coaches
and strategists and pitching analysts and trying to map out
what your bullpen usage is going to look like based
on the strengths of our players. And more times than not,
it worked out and the players started to get confidence.
So now when you play in that many one run games,
are used to being in those games and it's tied

(51:38):
and it's late and being to execute your pitches. Oh,
we're always in this spot. This is not a big deal.
And we got used to it, and we expected to
win all those games and you would be. You know,
you could get the feeling in the dugout. Again, you
have to have to be on the field and you
can feel it. But you feel it with your team.
You know you're down by a run or two. Now
you've come back and tied the game. Oh we're winning
this game. It's an automatic. We've tied. We win the

(51:59):
close games. That's what we do. But you've got to
create that kind of mindset with your players and by
putting them in positions. And again, we had a lot
of people involved in the decisions. It was not just me,
but you're leaning on all that group around you. You know,
like I said, the pitching coach is the strategists to
trying to get our players in the right spot. And
then like you said that, so some days you don't
have all your your weapons to use. You've got to

(52:20):
give guys days off or they're a little soggy at
the arm. You know, you just you have to have
the feel part of it there. But we were very fortunate.
We had very good players and players who enjoyed playing
in those games. And the fan bases there they feel it.
They know when you're used to winning those games and
kind of the electricity. Certainly in the home ballpark, it
makes a difference.

Speaker 1 (52:37):
It's got One of the things that that and I've
talked about, especially to folks who are older than the
three of us and you know it's a long time,
is burnout and the burnout risk in these jobs. I
think now, with the twenty four to seven news cycle
and social media and all the challenges going into being
an executive or a head coach or manager today, that
is real. I was a general manager of the Suns
for five and a half years. That was GM of
the Twins for eight years. You to both of those tenures,

(53:01):
you know, being in Seattle with the Mariners as the
manager for almost a decade, how did you manage kind
of the grind of it, either within season or from
one season to the next. And if you do go
back and manage a team again in the future, is
there anything you'll do differently? What will you do the
same and what will you change to make sure that
you can do the job at a high level for
a long period of time.

Speaker 3 (53:23):
I think it's natural to think, Okay, you are going
to get burned out or you get on the hamster.
Will you keep doing the same thing? Over and over
and over again, and for me, it was a couple
of different things. First of all, I think you guys
all agree you have to have a really strong support
group around you. You know, it's a wife that's been
with me since we're in high school together. You know,
family that's really supportive of you, that will listen, and

(53:44):
sometimes you just need to get things off your chest,
So you need to have that support group around you. Also,
that group is usually pretty good at creating distractions, which
are a good thing. I used to do it with
our team a lot. I know that that my wife
and kids enjoyed trying to get me to think about
other things in the game, which isn't easy when you're
locked in on the season. But you need those distractions,

(54:06):
and I think it's valuable, you know, as you go forward.
There are certainly things that you learn going through it
at times. One of the awesome things about Seattle is
for about three months during the summer, it is beautiful
and you can get out on the water, you know
what I mean. We didn't have many offers at home
because of the travel there, but I used to like
to get out on the boat and just chill, you

(54:28):
know what. I mean, that was my time to get
away from a little bit. And if it meant a
little water skiing or wakeboarding, I would pay for it
the next day. But it was something that I enjoyed doing,
you know, and just to try to get away from
a little bit. But I love the competition and it
always goes back. You know, what is going to allow
me to get the most out of our coaching staff
and our team. And it's constantly going through your head,

(54:51):
you know, every night when your head hits the pillow,
if it's an off day or you're in a winning
streak losing streak, What do we need to do to
get better? How can I make a difference? Who can
I talk to? And I often talk to young coaches.
It's what I'm doing now with the padres is mentoring
a lot of young coaches. Is you know, you might
have twenty things on your list that you needn't You
can't accomplish all that. You have to be realistic. And
I would oftentimes before I left the house to drive

(55:14):
to the ballpark, I'd have three things written down. These
are the three people I need to talk to. These
are the three discussions I need to have today. If
I get those three things done, we've gotten a little
bit better. You know. That's how I would book at it.
And then the constant flow and competitiveness of that. It
was fun. I loved the job. I love doing it,
and like I said, may I get a chance to
do it again? Time will tell.

Speaker 2 (55:35):
Scott take us take the listeners inside a clubhouse of
a playoff push?

Speaker 3 (55:40):
What is it like?

Speaker 2 (55:41):
I know we always talk about, hey, we want to
be consistent, Dane and Dio, But what is it like
as you're pushing towards the playoffs? And maybe tie into this,
you're working for the Padres now probably the best rivalry
in the games between the Padres and the Dodgers. Like,
what was it like in the clubhouse when you were managing?
What is it like now as you're witnessing the Padres
try to spurt into the finish line and catch the Dodgers.

Speaker 3 (56:03):
Yeah. I've always looked at the season, as you know,
it's one hundred and sixty two games, it spread out
over six months. I always looked at it in certain chunks.
The first forty games of the season for me was
they're trying to figure out what our team is. And
I've had some awesome spring trainings and you go out
and you just lay an egg dust start the season.
I had probably the we had the worst team talent wise,
and we got off to the best start. We got

(56:23):
off to a thirteen and two start one year during
a rebuild year. I'm like, I don't think this is sustainable.
We had a lot of fun for the first few weeks,
but the first forty games you kind of look at
what we have and then you're building from there. Okay,
you kind of get into the flow of the season
where we're at. The next real teller throughout the course
of the season is probably the time leading up to
the trade deadline. I always thought that maybe the two

(56:46):
most stressful weeks of the season were the two weeks
leading into the deadline, just because you know, we were
in positions where you're trying to obviously win every game
to put as much pressure maybe on the front office
or ownership to add to the team, and if you
sometimes go south right before the deadline. And I had
this conversation with a couple different teams, I guys, you know,

(57:06):
we need to turn up the volume right here or
some of the name plates are going to change in
the locker room. That's just the reality of where we're at.
You're at that point in the season. The players understood
that they really did now coming out of the deadline
usually had the euphoria. We were in a situation where
there were some some years we added players, there were
other years that we subtracted players. So you're you're kind
of dealing with a new team, you know, for the

(57:28):
first couple of weeks coming out of the deadline, and
then I always thought August was a great time for distraction.
Those are the time of year where you maybe you know,
you do some different things on the road, some team
building stuff, and I did a number of One year,
we ran our own Olympics. We did it thuring off
August while the Olympics were going on. The players loved it.
We had ten different events. We did crazy stuff, water

(57:49):
balloon catches to closest to the pin, golf shots from
the upper deck, we did all kinds of stuff, ping
pong tournaments. It was a great distraction for a team
because I knew we needed to turn to dial up
in September, and I wanted to put as much fuel
in the tank or create as much equity with our group,
so we could push at the end. So again, every
team is different. You have to feel your team, you

(58:12):
know where they're at, the personality of your team. But
I I love the you know, everybody talks about the
dog days of August. I kind of like that being
creative and what could we do to create some distraction
and bring the group together. And then when you get
to September, you know, every game is important. Players know that,
you know. So it's it's the reliever that's not typically
used to going three days in a row. He knows
it's time. You know, we got to push, and you know,

(58:35):
for us to in Seattle, we were trying to break
a playoff drought. It meant everything to the city and
the fan base, and our players knew that, they felt
it and they were all in. But I think those
five months leading up to September really does a lot
for your team. You just want to make sure there's
plenty of fuel left in the tank.

Speaker 1 (58:54):
Scott, we've talked a lot about your time as a
player and then as a manager with the Mariners. Take
us inside your most recent role with the San Diego Padres.
You mentioned working with some of the manager real staff,
helping mentor and guide some young managers in the Padres organization.
What else does the role entail? And then what's it like?
You mentioned them earlier in the segment, but I know
you and that both worked with Aj Preller in Texas.

(59:16):
His reputation is maybe the Major League Baseball is foremost
gunslinger at this moment. What's it like working with him?
And it kind of take us inside, you know, the
trade deadline, all that kind of stuff that you're exposed
to as a member of the Padres front office.

Speaker 3 (59:29):
Yeah, it's been been grateful to Padres, you know, give
me an opportunity to go over there and help. Kind
of starting back from when I came on board in
January and then in the spring training, getting to know
there was some people within the organization that I had
previous relationships with form my time in Texas, so the
transition was pretty easy. And try to just be more
of a voice, somebody to listen, a mentor for some

(59:52):
young coaches, create baseball discussion. I love talking baseball strategy.
When you talk about young managers, young coaches, they just
don't have the and they want to learn, they want
to ask questions, but sometimes they're a little bit shy.
They don't know where to go, so you just start
the conversation, you know what I mean. But it's been
it's been great getting to know that the players in
the system. Once the season gets going, I do some

(01:00:13):
travel out to our affiliates, so that the city's in
Fort Wayne, Indiana, I would stop into We're in Lake
elsinor or in San Antonio and El Paso, so either
see those teams, get to see the players a little bit,
kind of leading into the trade deadline. Before that, I
was involved in the amateur draft as well, which I
really enjoy. Now MLB has taken out a few years ago.

(01:00:35):
They do run a combine much like the NFL does,
but you get a chance to sit down and interview players,
which was awesome. I love talking to players, and these
are high school or college guys who are not in
pro ball yet. So I think with the Padres, we
interviewed close to one hundred and twenty players over a
five day period, thirty minutes a pop, and within thirty
minutes you get a pretty good vibe on guys. And

(01:00:56):
credit to the Padre's people are scouting director Chris Campino,
the inside in and outs on every one of these players.
He knows the questions to ask and being a part
of that was a lot of fun. The experience I've
had with players and getting involved there, being a part
of the draft was great. But then obviously, like I said,
getting into the deadline, and every team handles the deadline
differently based on where they're at in their in their

(01:01:17):
window so to speak with their team. And you know
Aj preller Uh at the head of our baseball operations group.

Speaker 4 (01:01:24):
Aj is very aggressive. Oftentimes people in the industry were
going crazy. I think he's a little bit more fearless,
is what I observed. Certainly, we traded a very good
young prospected way to try to bolster our bullpen during
this deadline, along with the additions you know, some position
players that we needed some help within our lineup.

Speaker 3 (01:01:45):
But he's very aggressive. I appreciate that. Again, I have
a seat at the table, have a voice. You know,
not every suggestion I make is is where we go.
But it's nice to have a voice and to know
that you're you're learning, You're seeing a group of people
and what they value, and every organization is a little
bit different. But padres know where their windows at is open.

(01:02:06):
Right now. They've got a great thing going against the Dodgers.

Speaker 4 (01:02:09):
It's a very competitive division, you know, and I just
like the competitiveness of it.

Speaker 3 (01:02:14):
When you're trying to beat the best, you've got to
show up and be the best, and that's a number
of different areas. So helping any way I can has
been great, and I'm just glad to have a spot
where i can chip in a little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
You know, fans just love guys like AJ Preller. I mean,
he is undoubtedly trying to improve the team night in
and night out. You know, if there's if there's a
Prudence Award in baseball, he's not shooting for that. He's
shooting to win. And you can see it every night
in San Diego. Forty two thousand people are coming to
midweek games now. You know, hopefully they'll get a chance

(01:02:49):
to really capitalize on this because they're pushing a lot
of chips in and I think the fans will always
celebrate the GM who is willing to do that. Scott,
thank you very much for joining us. We're going to
ask you to stay with us through the break here
because our listener question is about how did the Green
Bay Packers do in the Michael Parsons deal, and come

(01:03:11):
to find out, you're a shareholder of the team. So
who better to pose that question two than to Scott.
So stay with us through the break here at Rosters
to Rings. Welcome back to Rosters to Rings. Our question

(01:03:32):
comes from Frankie in Florida a little bit I think
peeved that we spent most of our Micah Parsons breakdown
episode talking about the Dallas Cowboys end of the deal.
Who better to ask about the Green Bay Packers end
of the deal? Frankie's concerned a little bit that this
seems to be out of the norm for how the
Green Bay Packers normally operate, trading multiple first round picks

(01:03:54):
and also taking on a salary of this magnitude. Scott,
why do you think this is the right time for
them to step out and do something a little bit
a typical.

Speaker 3 (01:04:03):
I'm super excited about the trade. Obviously we got a
generational type player and Michael Parsons, but I think the Packers,
you know, have had a certain way of going about
their business the draft develop you know, I haven't really
stepped out and signed a done the big trade like this.
I think Reggie White's probably the last big free agency.
You know, they really signed the turn to franchise. But

(01:04:24):
there's a little bit of a shift in in Green Bay.
A new team president. You know, Mark Murphy was there
for years. He stepped down at policies in charge. Maybe
that had something to do with it. I don't know.
I am a shareholder, Thad, but it's a very me
and sixty thousand other people. But I'm excited. I love football,
I love following the Packers. It's it's part of the

(01:04:44):
livelihood there in Wisconsin. Yea, I just thought of the
title for the pod.

Speaker 1 (01:04:48):
It's it's interview with Green Bay Packers owner Scott Servis
and maybe in parentheses lowercase letters he also played baseball
and maybe Madge a little bit. You know, that's how
we'll drive drive listeners. But Scott, you told a really
neat story before we came on air, and hopefully can
share it on air as well. When you were catching
I believe it was for the Chicago Cubs. You're not
just one of these you know, bandwagon guys who jumps

(01:05:10):
on and off or you know, happens to root for
a team because you're from Wisconsin. You've really been a
Packers fan for decades. Now take us inside that story,
if you will share it with our listeners. What happened
when you're an active player with the Cubs and we're
getting changed after the game.

Speaker 3 (01:05:24):
I love playing in Chicago for the Cubs, and even
though I was from Wisconsin, the Packers I hold near
and dear to my heart. So underneath my game jersey,
every day with the Cubs, I wore a Packers T shirt.
And of course the games are over and you take
your shirt off, and there was a media in there
and somebody took a picture of it one day and
eventually it landed on Ron Wolf at the GM of
the time of the Packers saw the picture and he

(01:05:47):
responded and we went on a road trip. We get
back from the road trip, there's a box in my locker.
I go, I see the Packer logo on it, So
I rip it open and there it is. It's a
Packer's jersey with my name in it, with a handwritten
note from Ron Wolf the GM saying, hey, we really
appreciate the support. Anytime you want to come up and visit,
you or a guest of mine. So you know that
didn't change my loyalty, but it certainly I loved the

(01:06:09):
Packers have always been a big part and it went through
a lot of lean years with the Packers, so it's
great to follow, and certainly in Chicago was always fun
with the media to joke with those guys.

Speaker 2 (01:06:19):
You know a similar story my first job out of college,
I was working for Reebok and at that time I
only owned Nikes and I was working out in the
gym and somebody came over and said, Hey, what SiZ
shoe do you were? I told him and I got
a new pair of Rebox right out of the shoot.
So the next day I painted a Nike swoosh on
my Dodge in Trepid, my nineteen eighty three Dodge in Treppid,
and I was like, Hey, where's the new car, And

(01:06:40):
They're like, you may need to go to a car wash.
This is this is embarrassing, Scott what. So one other
thing about Green Bay that I just throw in, and
I don't know enough about the economics of football, but
I'm just going to say it. It seems as if they've
got such a tremendous young core of players that now
it's the time to take on a big salary because
everyone else is in such a fortuitous position. So they're

(01:07:02):
going to pay Love a lot, They're going to pay
Parsons a lot. Probably gonna have to make some tough
decisions on some of those line so wide receivers coming up,
but right now they're all in rookie contracts, So timing wise,
if you're ever going to take a shot, it seems
like now was the time. Last question I interview Scott
was you know, you have a lot of ties to
the NFL, It's not just Green Bay. When you were

(01:07:23):
in Seattle, you would tell stories about how much you
kind of leaned into the Seahawks staff as people who were,
you know, part of your inner circle, and do you
want to share that story with the with the listeners
as well?

Speaker 3 (01:07:34):
Yeah, I really I've enjoyed getting to know a number
of people around the NFL and the fact that I
was in Seattle and I actually lived right down the
street from where the Seahawks practice there over in Bellvy,
right out like Washington. So the GM of the Seahawks
is John Schneider, who is from Green Bay. Started his
group with the Packers, and he and I kind of
from the both era, so we would share old Brewers

(01:07:57):
stories and Packers stories, and if anybody's better run around
John Schneider, you can understand. He's a fun guy to
be around and just talk sports with along the way.
I think, you know, Pete Carroll was there at the
Helm with the Seahawks, and I think Pete's one of
the transitional leaders, you know, in all of sport, and
what he did in the environment, he created the culture
around the Seahawks, so I was always curious to see

(01:08:18):
how he did it. And then you know, shifting into
Mike McDonald who was there now getting a chance to
spend some time with him last year. So there's a
number of people there that, you know, even though it's
a different sport, you're dealing with the same you know,
age athlete, you know, elite athlete, trying to get the
most and really build team. And I've often made the comment,
you know, I'm a you know, a baseball coach, but

(01:08:40):
I really think like a football coach. I really respect
the discipline, the structure that football has to it, and
I've taken a lot of those ideas and tried to
play it in the baseball. Of course, we played different game,
and it's one hundred and sixty two games. But you know,
I think there's a lot to be learned from each side,
and you share experiences and stories, and you know, I've
taken a lot from it through the years.

Speaker 1 (01:09:00):
Guess Scott for being a Packers fan, for wearing that
T shirt as a Cubs player, you got a jersey.
For appearing on Rosters to Rings, you get a signed
headshot at thatd Levine. That's a tradition we have, no
nobody asked for. He just sends it to our guests.
You know what's in the mail, Yeah, exactly. So we
certainly appreciate you you joining us. He is Scott's service.
He is Dad Levine. I am Ryan McDonough.

Speaker 3 (01:09:21):
Thanks for joining us.

Speaker 1 (01:09:22):
Folks, come back and listen next week and every week
right here on Rosters to Ring.

Speaker 2 (01:09:31):
Please join me host That Levine, Ryan McDonough and other
general managers every week for Roster Syrings on Apple, Spotify,
or wherever you get your podcasts.

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