Sho-Time to Showtime: MLB’s MVPs and the NBA’s Early MVP Favorites

Thad and Ryan break down the MLB MVP race featuring Ohtani and Judge, then turn their attention to early NBA MVP predictions for the season ahead.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to Roster Syrings alongside Ryan McDonough, I am Thad Levine. Ryan,
We've got an action packed show today. We're going to
talk about the all too early assessment of the NBA
MVP race. We're going to break down what happened in
the American League MVP race in Major League Baseball, and
talk a little bit about free agency in baseball.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
But just kick this off.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
We've teased this in a few of the previous episodes
talking about the Memphis Grizzlies the twenty nineteen draft. But Ryan,
let's get into it now. Break down the twenty nineteen
draft in the NBA.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
Yeah, that great to be with you. As always.

Speaker 3 (00:39):
Twenty nineteen was a really interesting year in the NBA
draft because it was the first year the NBA had
flatter LODs odds DAT And what I mean by that
is previously the odds had been really slanted toward the
teams with the worst records at the top of the draft,
meaning if you had the worst record in the league
going into the lottery, you had a twenty five percent

(01:00):
chance to get the number one pick, and the lowest
you could fall Thad was the fourth pick, So if
you went to eighty two. You had a twenty five
percent chance picking one, and the worst you could pick
was fourth. In a loaded draft, there are a lot
of reasons to lean that way into you know, lean
into the tanking and load up on ping pong balls
and all that if your mathematically based organization kind of
strictly playing the numbers.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
Twenty nineteen was different.

Speaker 3 (01:23):
The NBA got tired of the tanking of teams leaning
into losing, so that it was the first year of
the flatter odds. In Memphis was slotted eighth coming into
the lottery, which means they moved up six slots when
the ping pong balls were drawn, and they ended up
with the second pick in the draft, which he only
had a six percent chance of doing. New Orleans did
even better. New Orleans was slotted seventh in the draft.

(01:46):
The Pelicans also moved up six slots. They picked first.
They had a six percent chance of doing that as well,
So you know, those teams really defied the odds that
ninety four percent that they were not going to be
on those pick slots. New Orleans ended up with the
first pick, Memphis ended up with the second pick, and
then with the third pick. The team that had the
worst record in the league the year before was the

(02:06):
New York Knicks. They were slotted first, that they dropped
two slots to pick third. They had a fourteen percent
chance of doing that, so I actually had a better
chance of that happening than either New Orleans or Memphis
moving up that here were the results the teams ended
up drafting. New Orleans ended up drafting superstar Zion Williamson
out of Duke had one of the best years in

(02:28):
college basketball history as a freshman. Memphis got a very
good player with the number two pick, John Morant, an
electric point guard out of Murray State, and then with
a third pick that was our j Barrett from Duke.
So really that teams do tiering in the draft, and
imagine you guys do this in Major League Baseball as well.
The gap between each player's ranking is not always even,

(02:50):
so what a lot of NBA teams will do is
put players in tiers. Well, in the twenty nineteen draft,
most of the teams I talked to had two players
in the top two tiers, Zion Williamson by himself in
Tier one, John Morant by himself in Tier two, and
then there was a gap to Tier three, which most
teams did have led by RJ.

Speaker 2 (03:07):
Barrett.

Speaker 3 (03:08):
So that's the way it ended up. That jubilation in
New Orleans and Memphis, heartbreak in New York. Things that
look very promising on paper for both the Pelicans and
the Grizzlies.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
Ran a few questions I'd have just coming out of that.
How often is it that a player out of Murray
State would get that kind of recognition. How much does
strength a schedule factor into your evaluation of the college experience?

Speaker 2 (03:31):
Yeah, good question.

Speaker 3 (03:32):
It's relatively rare because I'd say of all the college sports,
basketball is the most heavily scouted in terms of these
kids on a national radar from twelve, thirteen, fourteen years
old and on. And so unless the guy's a very
late bloomer, which jam Moran I think would fit that description,
that the blue blood program. So name your college program

(03:54):
of choice, the Duke, North Carolina, Kansas, Kentucky, I could
go on. Usually they're all over these kids for a
young age. If you have a chance to be a
great player, never mind if you are, but if you
have a chance, they're recruiting these guys. Joe was a
little different, like I said he was a late bloomer.
I think Murray State showed a lot of initial interest
from what I remember, and then as he got better
toward the end of his high school career, I think

(04:14):
some of the big boys came calling Fad, but he
was a loyal guy. He's stuck with Murray State. But
yeah'd answer your question more directly. If you look at
the history of the draft, it is rare that a
player from a school like that amid to low major
ends up as one of the top two picks, especially
in what was considered at the time a very good
NBA draft class.

Speaker 1 (04:32):
And it's the same in Major League Baseball. Our models
are driven in larger guard on off of strength to schedule,
so you see a lot of kids coming out of
the ACC the SEC programs. It's much more uncommon to
see somebody coming out of the Northeast where they just
don't get a chance to play as much baseball, and
certainly not against really high quality competition. But as you reference,
I think the NBA, the NFL, in Major League Baseball,

(04:54):
they're doing a great job with these draft lotteries to
dissuade teams from tanking. It's had the same impact baseball,
as some teams with very small odds to get to
the top of the draft have gotten there, and quite frankly,
ever since they've implemented the draft lottery and baseball, the
team with the highest odds has not selected first yet.
Ran A few questions I'd have about that draft is,

(05:15):
you know, baseball everyone makes such a big deal about
war as kind of this all in company set and
how we can evaluate players across different positions, pitchers against
position players and the like. I was looking up the
draft results from twenty nineteen and listing these guys by
wind share that they have garnered for their team since
being drafted, and there's an interesting group at the top

(05:35):
and their few guys nestled right above Zion and John
It was Daniel Gafford and Nick Klaxton, Darius Garland, Brandon Clark.
You know, kind of moving down the list, you see
some of these other guys that show up on this list,
Cam Johnson and Terrence Mann and Jackson Hayes and Tyler Herro.
How much does wind share factor in? Is that a
fair way to assess these guys? It seem like a

(05:55):
lot of guys who are clearing up the boards are
getting a lot of consideration the top of this list.

Speaker 3 (06:02):
Yeah, I think wind shares can be somewhat valuable Thad.
But if I think you and I were to rank
the best players from the twenty nineteen draft, or if
we were starting a team today and picking guys from
the twenty nineteen draft, I don't think Daniel Glatt Gaffer
Nick Claxton would be the top two picks. And those
are the top two guys in wind shares. So it
can be slanted a little bit toward the guys who

(06:22):
rebound the ball well, as you pointed out, to the
guys who protect the rim well. With the shot blocking
metric and field goal percentage I think is heavily weighted,
and you think at the advantage for a rim running
dunking center, which Daniel Gafford and Nick Claxton both are,
they're not taking many, if any shots outside the restricted
area right around the basket, so your field goal percentage,

(06:44):
it's a lot easier to spike that if you're catching
and dunking, or catching and laying the ball in off
of a dribble penetration from a guard than it is
if you're the guard who actually has to dribble penetrate,
try to get to the basket against an NBA caliber defense.
So I think it can be a little bit misleading that,
you know, team look at it, but I would I
wouldn't say they overweight it. But yeah, I mean going
back to twenty nineteen on draft night, if you said

(07:07):
who are going to be the top two guys in
any metric? You know seven eight years later, so what's
going to be Zion and jaw in some order? You
know one or both of those guys, And unfortunately that
both of those guys have had significant injuries and off
court issues that have led to their lack of productivity
and lack of availability so far. And unfortunately for the

(07:28):
head coaches and some of the executives who worked for
those organizations, they both had a lot of churn, a
lot of turnover along the way. Frankly, the guys who
brought Zion and Jaw in, most of them are no
longer with those clubs just seven years later.

Speaker 1 (07:42):
Well, Ryan, let's dive into that. We've teased that a
little bit. Let's dive in a little bit further. Obviously
they're not singularly responsible, but when you draft players of
this magnitude. They can have profound impacts on your job security,
whether you're a head coach or an executive. Willie Green
unfortunately loses his job this last week, probably the last
remnants of people who have been impacted by this. But

(08:03):
let's first go into the Pelicans, like, what is your
assessment of what's transpired there? Ever since Zion has been drafted.

Speaker 3 (08:10):
So in twenty nineteen, the future was extremely bright in
New Orleans, at least on paper. They had a new
general manager in David Griffin, who had previously won the
championship as GM of the Cleveland Cavaliers with the lebron
James Kyrie Irving led team that beat the Mighty Warriors
in Golden State in Game seven at an epic NBA Finals.
They had an experienced, veteran NBA head coach in Alvin Gentry.

(08:32):
It's been around the block, been a successful head coach
and an assistant coach, one of the most popular and
likable guys in the league, known as a players coach.
Players tend to like Alvin, like playing for him wherever
he goes. And then that later that night New Orleans,
after picking Zion one, they also made a trade another trade.
They went out and got an athletics center, Jackson Hayes

(08:54):
out of Texas a youngster. So as I look at
the team on paper, their potential and the uticism were
really off the charts. I mean said, wow, Like Zion
Williamson and Jackson Hayes catching lobs with their elbows above
the rim and you know, it's really exciting, and then
defensively protecting the rim, flying around blocking shots. This is
going to be a big time athletic team and one
of the most exciting teams to watch. Zion in particular

(09:17):
at Duke I think set some viewership records when he
played that he was must see TV with the win
Mill dunks, and you know, he looked a lot like
a football player playing basketball, just with his strength and power.
You know, he'd lower his shoulder, Guys would bounce off
him in addition to his explosiveness. But that in reality,
it didn't work out that way. When the four year
contract that these guys sign as rookies ended, New Orleans

(09:39):
did not want back Jackson Hayes.

Speaker 2 (09:41):
They let him go.

Speaker 3 (09:42):
He's now a member of the LA Lakers, where he's
a backup or third string center, and Zion who was
supposed to be a prize a franchise player that you
could build around for a decade or so. That he's
missed at least twenty games in every NBA season except
for one. And keep in mind that he's now in
his seventh year in the league. He missed one season entirely.

(10:02):
That was in twenty twenty one, twenty twenty two.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
So far this.

Speaker 3 (10:06):
Year with New Orleans among the worst teams in the league,
and you just mentioned, they've already fired Willie Green, their
head coach, who's one of the most popular guys in
the league, a younger coach, you know, really popular with
the former and current players.

Speaker 2 (10:18):
He's out of a job in New Orleans.

Speaker 3 (10:20):
So that makes two head coaches now that in New Orleans,
Alvin Gentry and Willie Green, who have not been able
to get through it to Zion or you know, bring
the Pelicans the level of team success they had Hope
one general manager and David Griffin, who has since been replaced.
And so that's the reality of it. And you and
I know this is a tough business. It's not always fair,
but with the hype comes a lot of expectations, and

(10:43):
New Orleans, you know what they thought they were getting
with Zion seven years back and what has ended up happening.
Unfortunately for your Repelicans fans, they're kind of polar opposites
with the position they're franchise is in.

Speaker 1 (10:54):
You know, I think all the models that we've built
to try to evaluate talent and help our selection process,
the one thing that is so difficult to put your
finger on is health. And you know, we talk about
like the number one ability is your availability, and the
challenge you have when you have a player who has
missed as many games as Zion has due to health
issues is you're forever feeling like you would be trading

(11:16):
low on the player you reinvest in him. And when
you have a high percentage of your payroll invest in
a player who's just simply not available as frequently as
other teams star players are, you're playing at such a disadvantage.
And it's this cycle that is really difficult, I think,
to get out of. As an executive. You don't want
to trade that player because you don't want that player
to go and find the fountain of youth and be

(11:37):
healthy somewhere else. Because when they're on the court, they
are probably Permitutent spent one of the better contributors in
the whole NBA. But the reality is they're available so infrequently.
We had this experience when I worked with Minnesota, Byron
Buxton was unequivocally our most talented player, wasn't available that much. Now,
all of a sudden, he's getting healthier as he's kind

(11:57):
of found his stride in the game, and he's now
availing himself as a silver slugg or a goal glove player.
Guy who's getting MVP can't votes. This is the reason
you hold on to these guys because if they can
find the ability to stay healthy, they're undeniably one of
the most talented players. But the challenges when they're not healthy,
it's really crippling to franchises.

Speaker 3 (12:19):
And that's what keeps you up at night as an
executive that, as you know, we all want to buy
low sell high. If you trade Zion Williamson now are
the Pelicans you may be doing the opposite of that.
On the flip side, the same thing with the Grizzlies
with John Morant. That let's go into the history now
a little bit, because I think it's so interesting the
two parallels between the franchises with the top two picks

(12:41):
in the twenty nineteen draft. Memphis in twenty nineteen had
a new GM and head coach. They were both very young.
Zach Kleman was a general manager, Taylor Jenkins was a
head coach. In fact, this was the franchise that had
added a really promising big man the year before in
Jaron Jackson Junior played the one year at Michigan State,
and now appeared to have a franchise point guard and

(13:02):
a franchise big man potentially in Jaron Jackson Junior. And
the economics of this are really interesting too. That because
people coming into the draft. I hate that this is
part of the NBA discourse, but said, well, the Knicks
are awful. They're slot at number one. Of course they're
going to get either Zion or John Morant.

Speaker 2 (13:18):
And they didn't. And I thought it was great.

Speaker 3 (13:20):
And it parkens back to the late great David Stern,
who kind of built the NBA to what it is.
As commissioner said, yeah, I stacked a lottery odds. I
wanted the best players in South Texas with the San
Antonio Spurs. I'm paraphrasing, but that's that's the market we had,
you know, lined up to deliver the league to great heights.
But but I'm obviously kidding because you know, you have
New York up there, It's it's you know, it's the Mecca,

(13:42):
Madison Square Garden, the biggest media market all that, and
these two guys end up going down to the southeast
in New Orleans and Memphis and Zion Williamson and John Morant.
So it was really I thought, good for the league,
are potentially good for the league that as far as
parody and some of the things we've talked about balance,
you know, big versus small market, giving the smaller market
teams a chance to contend. But like Zion Williamson, unfortunately

(14:06):
John Morant has been injured a lot. Also, like Zion,
he's had a number of off court issues. Zions are
more weight related and conditioning related. Frankly, Fad you know,
Jah is just a lot of foolishness things things with
guns and threatening people and all kinds of immature nonsense.
I could, you know, go on a longer description of that,
but we'll leave it at that. But all that said,

(14:28):
the Memphis Grizzlies then went on and added a really
talented wing out of TCU, Desmond Baine, who was a
late round pick, an excellent pick, and you say, wow,
that's a good young big three. John Morant in the backcourt,
Desmond Bane on the wing, Jaron Jackson Junior in the
front court. They really might have something there that not
initially the short term, but for the next five or

(14:49):
ten years. You know, they could be the franchise Pillars. Well,
Moran's been in and out of lineup and suspended for
the aforementioned nonsense. Desmond Baine this offseason was traded to
the Orlando made a lot of that was financially related.
They just couldn't afford to pay three guys at or
near the MAX. And Jared Jackson Junior, I really like him,
but he's making franchise player type of money and I

(15:11):
think he's best described as a very good player. Unfortunately
on a below average team. That's that's what he is.
And situation Memphis is in so to recap that, Taylor Jenkins,
who became the winningest head coach in Grizzlies history, you know,
in large part due to the success or the productivity
those guys had when they played. And that's the tough part,
especially for Grizzlies fans. When Ja Morant, Jaron Jackson Junior,

(15:34):
and Desmond Bane all played, they were a very good team.
But Taylor Jenkins has now fired the guy who replaced
him as the interim head coach, Thomas Islow, one of
the first European born head coaches in NBA history. He
got the permanent job this year.

Speaker 2 (15:48):
Thad.

Speaker 3 (15:49):
He's already butted heads with John Morant, including some audio
we played on a recent Rosters to Rings where Jaw
was basically asking about his struggles and getting benched. He
kind of said, he ask the coaches, you know, essentially
that has nothing to do with me.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
It's ask them.

Speaker 3 (16:01):
They hate me, so they suspend a job once for
conduct detrimental the team.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
And the reality of it.

Speaker 3 (16:08):
Is New Orleans and Memphis now maybe looking at other rebuilds,
and they're in the position none of us want to
be in as an executive right where they have talent.
They do not want to trade the talent, but they
may have to trade the talent to move on. Knowing
that if Zion Williamson from New Orleans and if John
Moran from Memphis goes elsewhere and figures it out, they
could be coming back and kicking your ass for years.

(16:30):
And then you were the guy who just dealt low
because you got frustrated you weren't able to handle them
as an organization or as an executive. You moved on
from them thatad you sold low, and then the other team,
you know, reaped the benefits of it.

Speaker 1 (16:43):
You know, we're not trying to build the team that
has the most choir boys on it. We're trying to
win championships. But when you have your star player who
has somewhat of a divisive force in an undercurrent, the
rest of the team has to be clicking in all cylinders.
And there was a time where I think Zach Leman
and Taylor Tankins were regarded as the class of the
game in terms of roster building and roster deployment. And

(17:05):
you know a few of the other guys that I
recall being on those teams, they did a great job
in those blue collar guys, the Brandon Clarks of the
world and Dylan Brooks, who is kind of a little
bit of an interesting enforcer on the court, and all
of that seem to work well together until it didn't,
And you know, it just makes you revere the teams
that are built around the star players who also are
elevating the level of play around them. You know the

(17:28):
guys who are you know, high caliber character and high
caliber talent. Those are the guys that you never want
to let go. But you have to make a decision
sometimes when you're building a championship team when you can't
get both. Would you rather have the guy who is
extremely well regarded but isn't as talented or the guy
who's more talented but isn't as well regarded. It's a
balancing act. Because we are in the business of trying

(17:50):
to win. We understand that the person who's the divisive
force probably is going to not lead to a dynasty,
so to speak, but they may end up helping you
win in the short term. Where's the guy who is
an extremely good human being but maybe not quite as talented.
Could help compliment a championship run, but they're probably not
driving you to a championship singularly.

Speaker 2 (18:11):
Great points to that.

Speaker 3 (18:12):
And if you say, well, why would you ever take
a chance on a talented guy with issues, Well that's
what the Dallas Mavericks did with Kyrie Irving, right.

Speaker 2 (18:20):
They bought low. They bought very low.

Speaker 3 (18:21):
Look at what they gave up to get Kyrie was
not a whole lot, and then they almost won a
championship with Kyrie irving as one of their two best
players alongside Luka Donsich. Obviously, a lot has gone wrong
in Dallas from the end of the twenty twenty four
NBA Finals till today. But that's why you cannot just
blanket say now we're not taking any guys with issues
or character. As you know that sometimes it'd be a
pretty short list of guys if you only took the

(18:42):
choir boys on your team. Sometimes you need to figure
out where to operate in the margins. But that one
of the things that I wanted to get into with
you is I know it's early, We're only a month
or so into the NBA season, but this is as
wide open an MVP race as I can remember early
on in the year. I know it's very early for this,
but that these are the guys who check all the boxes, right.
These are the guys that you and I dream about

(19:04):
because they have talent, they have character, they're generally healthy
and available. So for me, it's wide open. I want
to list off six guys who I think all would
have a shot at MVP today, get your reaction to it,
get your thoughts, and then I'll react to it as well.
But that as I wrote down potential MVP candidates, these
six guys stood out, and usually frankly, by now it's

(19:26):
maybe a two or three man race. Sometimes there's one
guy way ahead of the pack that I think you
can make an argument for any and all of these
guys to be holding the MVP trophy at the end
of the year. I'm looking at Shay Gilders, Alexander in okc,
Nikola Jokic in Denver, Jannis Addakumbo in Milwaukee, Luka Donsich
with the LA Lakers, Steph Curry with the Golden State Warriors,

(19:49):
and Victor Wemanyama with the San Antonio Spurs. Fad what
those guys are doing. They're all different, they're all special,
and to me, it really makes it fun because they're
all performing at an MVP caliber level.

Speaker 1 (20:00):
You Know what jumps out to me, Ryan is how
healthy the NBA is right now and how ecstatic they
must be to have this talent pool right now in
the NBA. And because you're talking about guys from all
different generations, right I mean You've got some guys who
are kind of in the twilight of their career and
a guy like Steph Curry there, But then you have
so many guys who are young and up and coming
and who should be, you know, the kind of backbone

(20:22):
of the NBA for the next foreseeable future that maybe
a decade and something I'd love to pick your brain
about on a future episode. Is just the overall talent
in the NBA right now seems exceptional to me, and
I wonder if it's somewhat transcended. And you know, Adam
Silver's done such a great job of building out the
popularity of the NBA, But it's really the strength of
this talent pool that is in the NBA right now,

(20:44):
because I'm sure there are another ten guys that we
haven't listed here who are, you know, all time greats
and will be all time greats by the end of
their career. And my guess is, if we have this
conversation in two months, some of those guys will be
on this list as well. But is there anyone here
who is jumping out to you as you know you're
going to, you know, hang your hat on. Who are
the one or two guys, you're going to be following

(21:05):
for the rest of the season thinking these are the
odds on favorites to actually pull this off.

Speaker 3 (21:10):
Well, a couple of things stand out. Nicole Okic's stats
are the best every year. In segment two, just here
in a minute, we're going to get into an American
League MVP debate between Aaron Judge and cal Raley.

Speaker 2 (21:21):
I'm really interested to get your take on that.

Speaker 3 (21:23):
But I bring it up because if it's a statistical argument,
Joker is gonna win just about every time.

Speaker 2 (21:29):
He's won three out of last four m vps. You know,
I believe you know.

Speaker 3 (21:34):
Joel Embiid beat him a couple of years ago and
are somewhat controversial, but Mbid had a terrific year. But
if you look at the numbers, what the stat heads
will tell you is that there's nobody better than Nicole Okic.
That not only is he the best player in the
NBA today, he's one of the best in the history
of the league, especially what he's done over the last
five or six years, sustained excellence and brilliant. So he
stands out. But then you can make a case for Shay.

(21:56):
It's Gilgus Alexander too. We saw what he did a
year ago. The best player on the best team that
and that's what Okac is again, he's the best player.
Okac is by far the best team. I believe they're
twelve and one at this point. I have historically dominant numbers.
And keep in mind that when you watch the Thunder play,
arguably their second best player, Jalen Williams, has not played yet.
He's been out here. So that's how good they are.

(22:19):
That's how loaded they are and how deep they are.
Imagine that team with their depth and their defense. Aj
Mitchell has really emerged as a talented perimeterive performer for them.
Another Draft Nights steal by Sam Presty, Rob Hennigan and
company in the OKC front office. So those two guys
stand out that the other guys, you know, Luca, Jannis Staff,
the usual suspect Steph at thirty seven years old. We're

(22:41):
not supposed to have favorites, but he is my favorite
player to watch that I think he's the most exciting
guy to watch in the league. And then the player
I'm saving my money that you know, it comes flowing
in here from doing these rosters. The ring shows I'm
saving that to go watch Victor, Wim and Yama in person.

Speaker 2 (22:55):
Thad.

Speaker 3 (22:56):
I've never seen him because I you know, he came
into the league just after I exited the NBA. I
think I'm gonna go watch Victor play this year because
it's just one of those things where I think on
TV it's one thing to see a guy who's seven
to five, maybe more than that, you know, going behind
the back, through the legs against pressure, throwing lobs off
the backboard to himself and dunking like you and I
do on our kids on a nerf hoop. He's doing

(23:18):
that on an NBA court. So I just want to
see that that because I know it's real, you know.
And others said, you won't believe this guy. He's worth
the price of admission. But to me, Victor Womanyow, I
don't think he's gonna win the MVP this year. I
don't think he's gonna be quite good enough individually, and
the Spurs are gonna be quite good enough as a team.
But that if he told me he wins five out
of the next ten MVP awards, I'm not sure if
I take the over under on that.

Speaker 2 (23:39):
That's how good.

Speaker 3 (23:40):
I think Victor Womenyow is gonna be He's gonna be
a dominant force on both ends of the court, offensively
and defensively. And if you're listening to the show and
you can afford to go, get a ticket and watch
him in the spurs when he comes to your area,
watch him. That's what I'm doing. This guy does things
in NBA court. I've never seen a player of that
size do before.

Speaker 1 (23:56):
You know, Ryan, I would like to hear your winnings
when you lay the all eighteen dollars you've earned from
Ronsters to rings on when Bayama. A few things just
to echo what you said that just really are astounding
to me is looking at SGA's numbers last year to
this year. It's almost the exact same and he's got
a bulls eye in his back right. As you said,
they're the best team out there, he's the best player.
Everyone's trying to shut him down when they play against

(24:18):
those guys, especially with Williams not yet to play yet,
He's still putting up almost the exact same numbers. Just
the model of consistency in Lucas case, no Lebron there.
He was a little bit maligned last year coming out
of Dallas that maybe he wasn't in shape, and all
he's done is really put that team on his back
with Austin Reeves and done an exceptional job. I'm sure
the league is a little fearful of what is that

(24:39):
team going to be when Lebron gets added back to
the equation. And then, as you mentioned, Djokovic is such
a unique player. He's a bona fide center who is
leading the league in assists right now. He's averaging close
to a triple double, if not a triple double. But
the number that just jumped out to me was the
fact that he's averaging double digit assists per game as

(24:59):
a center. It's just incredible. And when Bayama is such
a freak of nature, his ability to handle the ball
at his height and hit three pointers is exceptionally. You
just hope somebody like that could stay healthy for the
entire of the Year'll be just fascinating to see what
numbers he can ultimately put up over the course of
a season. Stay with us through the break. On the
other side, we're going to start talking about the Major

(25:21):
League Baseball American League MVP. Did the writers get it right?

Speaker 2 (25:24):
Ryan?

Speaker 1 (25:25):
And I will debate that coming out of the break
here on Rosters to Rings.

Speaker 3 (25:38):
Welcome back to Rosters to Rings everyone, Ryan McDonald joined
by Thad Levine. So that we just talked about the
NBA about a quarter of the way into the NBA season.
Now let's get into baseball. We're in the postseason now.
Fascinating Major League Baseball season, especially the World Series, which
for me was an al teimer between the Toronto Blue
Jays and the LA Dodgers. You know what app on.

(26:00):
The Dodgers won in seven games. The Most Valuable Player
awards were handed out that in both leagues recently, and
I want to get into that with you, Rander Herod
listeners that select members of the Baseball Writers Association of
America get to vote for the league MVPs. That we'll
talk about the American League here in a minute, because
that was a very spirited debate, but the National League

(26:21):
that was not a debate. It was an open and shutcase.
And in this case, all thirty people who voted voted
unanimously for LA Dodgers superstar hitter, slash, pitcher, slash, all
time great show Heytani to win the National.

Speaker 1 (26:36):
League MVP and Ryan as you mentioned it. You have
thirty people voting, they get they get to submit their
top ten votes, and everybody put show hey Otani as
their number one choice, and as they should have. You know,
this is his fourth MVP award that he has won,
which is just spectacular, especially in light of the fact
that he spent most of the season as a DH,

(26:56):
which means that there's a drag on his overall performance
because he's actually getting negatively impacted by his supposed defensive
contribution to the team. He starts pitching at the end
of the year. He is going to be a prohibitive
favorite going into next year to win his fifth MVP
because not only will he be doing what he does
at the plate, but he also will be doing it
on the mound, And what we saw in the postseason

(27:18):
was just a spectacular showcase of somebody who was dominating
on the mound and also doing it at the plate.
I think there was always the thought that when he
was pitching, maybe his offense would struggle or vice versa.
He was dynamic on both sides of the ball and
exceptionally deserving unanimous choice and likely will be so again
next year. Will certainly be a prohibitive favorite going into

(27:40):
the season, Ran, What were some of your takes watching
Otani play both in the season and maybe more excitingly,
in the postseason.

Speaker 3 (27:47):
This year, he's someone I have to get to go
watch in person, and I want to bring my son, Jack,
our six year old, has become a big baseball fan
just because he's a generational player, maybe a multi generational player.
Guys like that don't come along often. We hear the
Babe Ruth comparisons, and so I think there are a
lot of different ways to define value. That right, what
is value is a statistical is it value to the team?

(28:10):
But for me, O Tani makes it easy. He's the
most valuable because he does things nobody else does with
being an elite pitcher and an elite hitter, and those
contributions are so unique and so overwhelming that as long
as to me, as long as he has even a
decent year on the mount of the plate, he should
either win the MVP or be in the top grouping
every single year because nobody else does that. Right, he

(28:30):
does something that nobody else does in sports. He's a unicorn,
and you're right, he's thirty one years old. So I
hope our listeners get a chance to continue to watch
him and enjoy his prime because to me, he's must
see TV. I think it was really great for the
sport that the Dodgers were there, he was showcased and
showed up on the league's biggest stage. We remember that
epic three home run ten RBI game against the Brewers

(28:52):
to put the Dodgers into the World Series, and then
having him on the biggest stage in the World Series
and epic seven game series against Toronto. I thought that
was just great for the sports that And to me,
there are only a few athletes you say, whatever you're doing,
you stop and watch when he's on TV. For me, show, Hey,
Otani is one of those guys. Another one of those guys. Frankly,

(29:13):
I don't think he's quite at Otani's level, but maybe
Aaron Judge, you know, one of the great right handed
hitters of all time.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
That.

Speaker 3 (29:20):
But the AL voting for MVP was really interesting and
this one was very close.

Speaker 2 (29:24):
So let me give you the numbers.

Speaker 3 (29:26):
New York Yankees alt fielder, the aforementioned Aaron Judge received
seventeen first place votes. The other thirteen first place votes
that went to Cal Raleigh the votes. Raley did not
get for first, he got for second. So it is
that on all thirty ballots these guys were one in
two in some order. But it turns out the giant
outfielder for the New York Yankees, Aaron Judge, edges out

(29:50):
the catcher for the Seattle Mariners cal Raley, who had
a spectacular season.

Speaker 1 (29:54):
Well, I think if you ever wondered why wasn't I
a professional athlete or certainly in majorleague based, look no
further than the bodies of Aaron Judge and sho Hey Otani.
These guys are superhuman. And another thing I think just
worth noting about both of those two guys in particular
is the fact that they literally have the most eyes
on them. I mean, Otani has all the eyes of

(30:15):
Japan and the United States on him. Judge is one
of the most popular players in the game. They're so
cool under pressure. They they're resting heartbeat is that of
a champion. They don't know. Moment is too big for
those guys. But what an exciting race this year between
cal Raley and Aaron Judge. And you know, it depends
on how you want to dice this up as your Reference.

(30:35):
They were one and two on everybody's ballot, and it
was relatively close, and it should have been on the
raw numbers, you know, kind of the more traditional numbers.
Raleigh led the American League and home runs and RBIs,
which obviously is very important. Judge led in runs, batting average,
on base and slugging percentage. And I don't know if
you like old school numbers or advanced numbers, but Judge

(30:57):
really had a huge edge when it came to some
of the advanced metrics. He led the American League in WAR,
in WRC plus and win probability added, in championship probability added.

Speaker 2 (31:09):
He was just a.

Speaker 1 (31:10):
Dynamic player this year, so exceptionally vital to the New
York Yankees. Raley was very high in those stats as well.
He was second in WAR, third in WRC plus, fourth
and win probability added, and second in championship probability added. So, Ryan,
I question I'd ask of you is, as you evaluate
whether it's NBA, Major League Baseball, NFL and you're looking

(31:30):
at MVP candidates, how much do you weigh some of
those traditional numbers versus some of the more nuanced numbers
that we're using. Nowadays to try to evaluate the whole
value of players in one statistic.

Speaker 3 (31:43):
Yeah, I think when it is this close to that,
you have to weigh all of that information along with
the eye test to be honest, Because we talked about
the National Lavy in an open and shutcase, thirty voters,
all thirty of them agreed was it was Otani. There
was nobody, you know, it was like a close second,
even really in the conversation. In my opinion, this one
was close. I lean a little bit toward Judge just
when I watch him play the eye tests. He's one

(32:04):
of the most feared right handed hitters I've ever seen.
He's a physically imposing figure, but he backs it up
obviously with the productivity that He's the kind of guy
that if I were on the mound, I'd be scared
to death, just given his size and control of the
strike zone and.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
Power and all of it.

Speaker 3 (32:18):
He's really a pretty complete hitter in my opinion. Now,
let me ask you this that when it's this close,
I think most Major League Baseball insiders would agree that defensively,
catchers a much more important position than right field. Do
you think that factor into the vote at all? Should
that have factored into the vote at all. And as
a second layer of that, that is the fact that

(32:39):
cal Raley plays in Seattle, you know, smaller market in
the Pacific Northwest, in their mid market, I should say.
And then Aaron Judge plays in New York, the biggest
market in the country, the famous you know Yankees, with
the history and all that.

Speaker 2 (32:51):
Do you think that impacted this at all? Should that
impact this at all?

Speaker 3 (32:55):
Along with the positional differences, I know I threw a
lot at you, but I think this one's very close,
and I like to hear you kind of take us
inside the weeds a little bit as far as your
thought process.

Speaker 2 (33:04):
And how this vote went down.

Speaker 1 (33:06):
Well well as somebody who has spanned both the traditional
view of this and the kind of more advanced new
progressive view of this.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
I want to believe that.

Speaker 1 (33:13):
The MVP voting matters more than just anyone singular statistic.
I think I agree with you entirely, Ryan. I think
Judge wins on the stats. I do think they're just
enough in his favor. He was a transcendent player in
the American League, and but for Otani, we would be
talking about him in some rarefied discussions but I think
the story does matter here. As you mentioned, we don't

(33:35):
really get a perfect justification from the voters as.

Speaker 2 (33:38):
To why they voted the way they did.

Speaker 1 (33:39):
We have a lot of writers out there who talk
about the people who are more analysts, but who didn't
actually vote for the award. So is there an East
Coast biased and a major market biased? Is there a
favoring of Judge because he's won the award before, so
he's kind of on people's minds, whereas Raleigh was somebody
who was not on their minds. But I'm going to
make an argument here for the story supporting cal Rally.

(34:01):
The stats I think support Judge. I think the story
supports cal Rally in the following ways. Judge effectively put
up a season that he's put up before. We've seen
this out of Judge. We've never seen anything like this
out of cal Rally. He hit sixty home runs, which
which matches you. He's setting records for catchers. The previous
high had been forty eight. He beat it by twelve.

(34:22):
He had beat his previous own high, which was thirty four,
by twenty six home runs. He was the home run
derby at the Ulcro game. He wins the home run
Derby as the first switch hitter ever to do it,
and he hit from both sides of the plate during
that event, which is just incredible. He set a record
in the major leagues where home runs by a switch
hitter previously held by Mickey Mantle, who's on kind of

(34:44):
the Mount Rushmore of Hall of Famers. He also, by
the way, led the American League in RBI while he
was doing it, and he caught one of the best
pitching staffs in the game and ultimately led them to
the ALCS. So I think for some of those reasons,
and as you mentioned, he plays the most grueling position
out there, which is that of a catcher, and so
I look at it and say, these both these guys

(35:05):
are exceptionally worthy the Certainly the voting would bear that out.
I think the numbers support Judge. I think kind of
the story and the folklore and how important it is
in the game that has been played for over a century.
When you set records and when you do things nobody
else has done before, I think you deserve some significant consideration.
I probably would have tipped a little bit in the

(35:26):
favor of Raleigh for those reasons. I certainly understand the
justification for voting for Judge. He was the superior player.
I think Raleigh had the superior story. I would have
gone in favor of him in this instance.

Speaker 3 (35:39):
That's interesting because we've seen those kind of debates go
both ways, going back to Michael Jordan when he was
in his prime, Carl Malone and others. I think the
team Elijah on won MVPs in there, but the people
who played with Jordan and watched Jordan and that era,
we watched him as fans say, well, he was the
best player.

Speaker 2 (35:55):
Every year. It's a joke that anybody else will win
the MVP. He was that good.

Speaker 3 (35:58):
And obviously we know he won the sixteenampionship. So essentially
every year he played without the baseball break in the middle,
he was the best player and his team won the championship.
But on the flip side of the NBA, we saw
kind of the opposite with Joel Embiid that that was
more kind of this that right where the numbers in
this one slanted toward Aaron Judge, the number was in
that one slanted a little bit toward Nicole kic Uh.

(36:20):
Joel Embiid was excellent, you know in Philadelphia. He was
also a guy that, let's be honest, given his health history,
there were questions about how long he'd be able to
sustain this, would he ever be back there, And frankly,
a couple of years later, he has not gotten back
to that level. He's not consistently been healthy. Whereas Jokic,
he does the same thing just about every year. He's
historically dominant.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
He was years ago.

Speaker 3 (36:40):
That's why he has three m vps, and we just
discussed in the first segment where he has a very
good shot to win his fourth this year. He could
make an argument, you know, he might statistically probably should
have won the last six, including this year, So I.

Speaker 2 (36:51):
Think you can make the debate either way.

Speaker 3 (36:54):
I think it congratulates to both the guys that the
fantastic years cal Raley, you know, like you said, out
of nowhere expected this from Judge, We expected this from Otani,
We did not expect this from cal Raleigh. Sticking with
the Seattle Mariners team that I wanted to ask you
about a teammate of cal Rally's, and that is Josh
Naylor was aquired in season via trade with Arizona and

(37:19):
the baseball offseason. Is that I want to get your
take too, on not just the Josh Naylor signing. He
resigned with the Mariners on a five year, ninety five
million dollar deal. For those watching the video, see Jeff
passon breaking the news there a former guest on rosters
or rings that what do you think of the Naylor
signing individually? And is this the start of kind of

(37:39):
a run of signings well other guys you think, you know,
I know, I'm askew to project, but do you anticipate
other guys signing quickly going forward? Or is this you know,
each signing in Major League Baseball kind of on its
own and there are different ebbs and flows as the
offseason progresses.

Speaker 2 (37:54):
Well.

Speaker 1 (37:54):
Some important dates to consider here, Ryan is the fact
that the Major League Baseball had the Major League Baseball
General Managers Meetings this past week, and this is a
time where all thirty teams send their general managers and
some of their lead executives.

Speaker 2 (38:07):
They meet.

Speaker 1 (38:07):
They discussed rule changes for the upcoming year, but it's
also designed to be a time to discuss with other teams,
your needs, your surpluses, start the process of discussing trades.
You also meet with agents while you're out there, and
typically the back and forth that happens in Major League Baseball,
I'm not sure if this is the same in the NBA,
which is you go to the agents and talk about
the free agents and find out that the asking price

(38:29):
is astronomical. So then you go to the trade market
and you find out the prospect asked to improve your
team is offensive, and then you go right back to
the agents and you keep kind of pendulum swinging back
and forth until you find a deal that is palatable,
so that even if you're throwing up a little bit
in your mouth, you can spray a little banaka in
there and get a great player and move on. And
so I think it's pretty rare to see a player

(38:50):
of this magnitude signed this early in the process. And
so in advance of this episode, I got on the
phone with Mark Peeper, who is extremely well regarded agent.
He runs ies the president baseball operations for that agency
and he represents Josh Naylor, and I just asked him
for a little background that we could share with our folks,
and some of the things he shared on Josh were

(39:12):
pretty unique. Is that he's a quality of life type players.
So once he reached a certain threshold of financial security.
He was all about trying to be in a championship
organization and one that he thought had a sustained chance
to win and win for the entirety of this contract,
and he felt Seattle was just that he was extremely

(39:33):
impressed with his time there. He's also a player who
I think we've talked about these types of guys in
the past ryne which is you hope as a fan
every player wants to win as much as the next guy. Well,
this guy wants to win a little bit more. And
so Mark was very aware that he needed to put
him in a place where they were going to be
competitive year in and year out. Otherwise he just wasn't going
to be happy, and there was no amount of money

(39:54):
that he could be paid to be satisfied in a
less competitive environment. So I give a lot of credit
to Mark keep here for knowing his client as well
as he did. I give a ton of credit to
Josh Naylor for recognizing that he was willing to leave
a little on the floor. He didn't necessarily need to
shop this deal around. He felt that this was plenty
good enough, and he wanted to stay in an environment
where he knew he could be the best version of himself,

(40:16):
which is somebody who has a chance to be that
gritty competitor who really elevates the level of play of
everybody around him, and that this was a wonderful fit
for him, he was a wonderful fit for them. And
I think the other thing of note here is Jerry Depota,
the longtime president of baseball operations for Seattle. Heretofore had
never signed a player for more than five years, so
this matches the longest term and we'll see exactly what

(40:41):
the dollar amount comes in at, but it's been rumored
to be somewhere between ninety and one hundred million dollars,
So this will be one of the most significant investments
by the Seattle Mariners during Jerry's tenure, which I think
is noteworthy because what we saw at the trade deadline
was also a departure from his behaviors. He went out
and got in addition to josh Nan Nailor, he got
Aohenne Osuarez, two of the best offensive players in the market.

(41:02):
Those were moves that were more demonstrative than he had
done the past. At the trade deadline, ownership gave him
the green light to do it, he really improved. The
team took him all the way to Game seven of
the ALCS, a place they want to return to. Josh
Nailer will help a lot in that cause, and the
fact that they have the chance to get there was
a real driving factor for Josh's decision. Ultimately, here a.

Speaker 3 (41:23):
Really good point because what is valuable to each player
or each person individually is different and can change at
different times. Right, Because in the course of my career,
I've seen guys who are young and single and have
not made a lot of money. They'll play wherever just
because they want to make as much money as possible
because they have not made it yet, and they want
to secure their financial future in the future of those

(41:43):
and others or future family, kids, extended family all that.
Some older guys, you know, which especially those who have
made money, prioritize comfort and don't want to move their
family around. And to your point that describing Josh Naylor,
really want to compete. It's important to them that the
team they're on has a chance to compete, a chance
to win, whereas everybody says they want to win. But
you know, some guys would take a little bit more

(42:04):
money to play a team that's not as competitive just
because they want to maximize earnings. And if you win, great,
but if not, that's okay too, if you're maximizing what
we are. So I think it's really interesting that that
people have different ways to look at things, and you
put yourself in the shoes of a youngster, you know,
player coming into Major League Baseball or the NBA and
late teams early twenties, how that may be different career

(42:26):
wise than an established guy, a man potentially married with
a family in his late twenties or thirties. Those are
different things. I think, you know, a lot of our
listeners trobably emphasize with that depending on where they are
in the life spectrum, and certainly that I think we
have to keep that mind when we look at players
the contracts they sign, Why did they re sign with
the team they resigned in. What was the most important
thing to them at that point. With Nailor, it seems

(42:49):
like security knowing the situation in the alley's got a
good thing going there and being comfortable with the direction
of the Mariners.

Speaker 2 (42:56):
Franchise, you know.

Speaker 1 (42:57):
And Ryan, one other thing to consider is why did
the Attle acts so quickly and I think there's two
primary reasons. One is Naylor is such a fascinating player.
He is such a versatile offensive player. So we talked
about wind shares, we talked about war. I'm not sure
there's one stat that really captures what he delivers. In
addition to the grid he provides in that standard of excellence,
he's at time is the most patient hitter in your lineup.

(43:21):
He can take a walk, he can work account. He's
a great contact hitter, so sometimes when his single is required,
he can hit a single. He can also hit for
power when it's needed. And then, much to everyone's surprise,
he ended up going thirty of thirty two in stolen
bases this year. So it's an exceptionally versatile player. I
think looking at him through the lens of anyone statistic
doesn't do him justice. What he's delivering in the clubhouse,

(43:43):
on the field, off the field is exceptional. But he's
also such a versatile player to add to that lineup,
which is pretty dynamic. In addition, and then lastly, one
of the things that Mark shared with me today too
was why he wanted to sign early was because he's
aspirational of what else the Sealo Meaners may be able
to account push this offseason. He knew by signing early
he was securing some of their offensive needs. It now

(44:05):
may allow them to go add at other places within
their team, and he wanted to give the team that clarity.
So I think this was a rare example where there
was true partnership in this negotiation between Mark Peeper representing
Josh Nayler in between Jerry Depoto representing the Seattle Mariners.

Speaker 3 (44:23):
That as much as guys like us like to think
that the most important recruiters are an owner, a general manager,
head coach, your manager in Major League Baseball, from my experience,
the best recruiters usually are the players in your locker
room or dugout. If Josh Nayler is now out proactively
calling and texting guys on behalf of the Seattle Manors,
there's a lot of value in that too, given who
he is and they respect people have for him around

(44:43):
the league. So that's something that I think we can't
understate as well, that player to player bond.

Speaker 2 (44:49):
In recruitment can be very strong.

Speaker 3 (44:51):
That we're going to take a quick break right here,
coming back the star of our show, or at least
the guy who thinks he's the star of our show.

Speaker 2 (44:57):
That is our producer Wyatt.

Speaker 3 (44:58):
We'll see if you know, doing question answers from listeners
has gone to his head after two episodes, So we're
going to take a quick right here. Coming back after
the break stick with us on Rosters to Rings producer Wyatt.
We'll have your questions just after this. Welcome back to Roster.

Speaker 1 (45:19):
To Rings alongside Ryan mcdonna. I am Thad Levine. After
a thorough buttering by Ryan, we're bringing back Wyatt, our
producer for listener questions. Wyatt kick it off.

Speaker 4 (45:31):
Thank you that and appreciate the support from Ryan. This
first question is from Chris in DC, and we're gonna
have both of you guys touch on this. But Ryan
is the current Thunder roster one of the best constructed
teams you've seen in recent NBA history, And if so,
what other rosters come to mind as comparisons? And that

(45:52):
on the MLB side, what rosters, either ones you've worked
with or admired from AFAR stand out to you as
being built for both the met success and long term sustainability.
I can give you guys a little more context here
just on the Thunder's greatness so far the season. We
touched on it a little bit earlier in the show,
but they're thirteen to one right now, best point differential

(46:13):
in the NBA. They're winning each game by an average
of a little over fifteen points. And I believe they
have another first round pick from the Clippers in next
year's draft, So you know that, along with you know,
not having Jalen Williams to start this year, they're really
showing no signs of slowing down. But Ryan, do you
want to touch on this one first?

Speaker 2 (46:32):
Yeah, all that is correct. Why.

Speaker 3 (46:35):
I'd also add that the Clippers are off to a
very slow start with the injuries to Kawhi Leonard, James Harden,
and other there's a lot of pressure on that franchise.
Obviously the investigation into their owner Steve Baumer, Kawhi Leonard,
the aspiration scandal that we discussed here on this show.
That's a cloud overhanging the franchise as much as anything
that the Clippers just starret't defending as well. So I

(46:55):
bring that up relative to the Thunder because the Thunder
have their pick. Ironically, it's still from the Shake Hill
just Alexander Paul George Fay. We know Paul George is
coming gone, you know, to La leaving Clippers last off
season for the Philadelphia seventy six ers where he has
been injured, is about to return to the lineup as
a seventy six er. Yeah, okay See is historically well constructed.

(47:18):
I think what I would do today that if our
running NBA team is trying to find a pillar in
the back court, on the wing, and in the front court,
right kind of not necessarily a quote unquote big three
where you push a bunch of money at the best
three players you can find, but you know a guy
who can lead the team from the backcourt, a versatile wing,
and a big man. And that's what okay Se has

(47:40):
and the versatility in all those positions with Shake Gield
just Alexander the MVP on the ball in the back court.
That one of the remarkable things that we didn't talk
about earlier in the show when we did the NBA
MVP look early in the season is that Shake Guild
is Alexander is still I believe, the leading scorer in
the NBA if you take away the fourth quarter, because
usually case he's up by so much, he does not

(48:01):
play the fourth quarter, but if you take away the
fourth quarter, I think he still leads it to that
or maybe he's second. I know Tyres Max he's having
a terrific year as well, But that's how dominant he's been.
That's how dominant the Thunder have been. Jalen Williams has
not played, looks like he'll returned the lineup relatively soon.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
And then cheded.

Speaker 3 (48:17):
Holmgren's kind of the prototype modern big man. I can
play inside and outside, he can stretch the court, protect
the rim, you know all of that stuff. He's versatile,
high character, hard playing guy. So you combine that with
the depth they have aj Mitchell playing extremely well in
the backcourt, another gem mined by the Thunder scouting department,
and then all the versatility, all the optionality. So to

(48:39):
me that I think what's so exciting about the Thunder
and scary for the other twenty nine teams is how
good they are now, but also how well set up
they are. And that's where I'd give him the advantage
over historically great team like the Golden State Warriors had
eight to ten years ago when they had four Hall
of Famers Steph Curry, Klay Thompson Draymond Green. Then they
added Kevin Durant to that team. Well, that team was

(49:01):
historically great, and we know what they did, winning two
championships in three years, but we also knew that the
window was going to be relatively short, and it was.
And so I think, Okay, see, despite their greatness, their dominance,
their window is wide open. And that's why when the
Athletic did their survey recently of the best front offices
across sports, the number one across the four major sports

(49:22):
in this country was voted the OKAC thund.

Speaker 1 (49:24):
And Sam Presty, their general manager, longtime general manager, has
rebuilt multiple champions there, which is just absolutely historically epic.
I'm sure he'll be a first ballot Hall of Famer
when his vogue comes up, a beacon for all of
us in sports. On the baseball side, two teams come
to mind. To address the listeners question. You just can't

(49:46):
look past the Los Angeles Dodgers, and I guess there's
some version of the Golden State Warriors that you just referenced.
They've got four number one starters at the top of
their rotation. They have three or four guys who will
be Hall of Famers. On the position player's standpoint, it's
just an exceptional team. And oh, by the way, they're
drafting extremely well. They're infrastructure to draft and develop players

(50:10):
is as good as anybody's in the league. They've produced
the fourth most war out of the draft for the
last fifteen years, so they're doing that in winning in
the free agent markets. They're spending, they're spending extremely wisely.
They've built out one of the most robust infrastructures. It's
an exceptionally daunting team to play on all facets, and
they should be good for years to come. On the

(50:32):
smaller market version of that. We've talked about this team before,
but I think the Milwaukee Brewers deserve a ton of
credit similar to what you just described Ryan as the
Oklahoma City Thunder. They have a star in Jackson Surio,
probably not quite as well known as SGA is yet,
but he's a guy who will become a household name
in the game. They have Christian Yelich, who's kind of
their veteran anchor on their team, a number one starter

(50:53):
in Freddie Peralta. But they've got an excellent front office.
They have an excellent manager who's won back to back
Managers of the Year Matt Arnold. Their GM won the
Executive of the Year this year. They've been exceptionally disciplined.
They make very prudent trades. They don't get married to
anyone player, but what they get married to is championship
style play. Their manager has done an excellent job Pat

(51:15):
Murphy in terms of mixing and matching. They platoon as
well as anybody out there, So they got a lot
of unsung heroes. There's some of their parts is just
so much more valuable than any individual. And the team
a very dynamic club modeled after a little bit what
we saw with the Toronto Blue Jays, but a lower
payroll version of that. So I'm going to stick with
the Dodgers and the Milwaukee Brewers has two versions built

(51:36):
very differently, but both championship organizations.

Speaker 4 (51:38):
Great stuff, all right, Next question is from Dan and
Denver just kind of touched on this, but Thad, how
important is it for teams to get contracts done before
spring training starts and is there a real competitive disadvantage
if negotiations spill into camp?

Speaker 1 (51:56):
So, you know, as is the case in a lot
of sports, deadlines, try decisions and one deadline which is
kind of artificial, But you see a lot of players
sign around is the holidays, Specifically around the Christmas and holidays,
you'll see a lot of players sign because I think
players don't want to go home and sit around the
table and you know, they're carving the turkey and the
ham and everyone's asking, well, where are you going to

(52:17):
play next year? And your wife wants to know where
the kid's going to go to school next year, and
do we need to get a home, and all those
sorts of things. They want to know those answers. So
you see a kind of a crush of players sign
around there. What has become a little bit of an
unfortunate trend in the game of baseball is a lot
of players are not only going into the beginning of
the year, but some of them are actually going into
spring training unsigned they're pursuing the best deal that they

(52:40):
can possibly get. They believe they're not going to get
it until teams have no other alternatives. But similarly, teams
are willing to wait and sometimes wait into spring training
to determine, Hey, this guy no longer has any other alternatives,
so now he'll sign in a below market deal. So
I think for those players who are hunting the last
dollar and for those executives who are hunting the app

(53:00):
best deal rather than the best player. These deals are
starting to trail into spring training. Unfortunately, the stastastics would
support that those guys tend to get off to slow
starts in the season. There is spring training and preseasons
and all these sports for a reason. You're getting into shape.
You're getting to know the players on your team. You're
getting to know the resources you have to excel. And

(53:22):
if you delay that process or materially delay it, oftentimes
you see those players faltering at the beginning of the season,
and so the team that waited to get that good
deal sometimes then gets a player who only delivers five
good months rather than six, and then all of a
sudden that deal doesn't look quite as good anymore.

Speaker 4 (53:39):
Good stuff, all right. Next question is for both of
you from Anthony in Columbus, Ohio. Which fan base deserves
a title the most right now? MLB or NBA, And
I did some quick research the longest championship droughts. If
this plays into your guys answers at all. For the MLB,
We've got the Cleveland, we got Cleveland Milwaukee, San Diego, Seattle,

(54:04):
and Pittsburgh. And then in the NBA we've got the Kings,
the Suns, the Hawks, and the Knicks.

Speaker 3 (54:12):
Well, for me, it's easy, I'm going to go with
the Phoenix Suns. I lived there for a decade, was
a GM for five and a half years. Unfortunately, didn't
get close to when I was there, although some of
the guys we left behind, almost one in twenty twenty one,
Devin Booker, mckail, bridges, DeAndre eight And it was a
joy watching those guys go to the finals.

Speaker 2 (54:28):
And that's what's so hard.

Speaker 3 (54:29):
That they were up two ozho in the finals that
looked like they were going to win the first championship
in franchise history, and then sitting there as a fan
watching the mighty Giannasi Didacombo lead the Milwaukee Bucks back
to four wins in a row, an all time great
finals performance. Giannis had fifty points in the clinching game six,
just an unstoppable force. And that's what's so hard. We

(54:50):
talked about it relative to the Blue Jays. It's easy
to say, well, we'll be back, but the reality is
in pro sports, you only get a chance to be
near the mountaintop so often it's very hard to climb there.
You need to play exceptionally well, you need a lot
of health and luck along the way. You need some
other teams maybe to get injured or underperformed to clear
the path. All those things happened for the Suns in

(55:11):
twenty twenty one. They weren't able to get over the hump.
So for me, I think that's an easy one. Yes,
I'm I'm biased, but I'd really love to see the
fans there win a championship. Unfortunately, I'll take I think
it'll take a little bit of time, but I've really
enjoyed watching the team play this year, that they've been
one of the surprise teams to me, and after fifty
plus years and three trips to the finals, no championships. Unfortunately,

(55:32):
I'm going to be real excited whenever they do win one.
I just hope they saved me a ticket that I'll
fly out there. I'll put on some SPF fifty so
I can go outside in Phoenix in June and join
in on the championship arrade.

Speaker 1 (55:44):
That sounds wonderful. I think the easy answers whichever franchise
Ryan or I are working for would be would be
the one that we would hope would win. Second second
followed by whoever my son's rooting for just for the
health and well being of the household. But two franchises
jump out to me in Baseball. One you mentioned it,
Ryan and your I'm sorry why in your question, which

(56:05):
was the Seattle Riners have the only franchise in Major
League Baseball to never go to the World Series, let
alone win it. So for that franchise and that fan base,
they got so close this year. They got to Game seven,
they were up three to two going to Toronto. They
just needed to win one of those two games. They
played exceptionally well. They were so close. If they got
a chance to go to the World Series and then

(56:25):
ultimately get a chance to compete to win it, I
think that fan base deserves that opportunity. They've never had
it throughout the history of that franchise, it'd be wonderful.
And then two for me, I grew up a huge
Baltimore Orioles fan. They last wanted in nineteen eighty three,
and for them to get another chance, for the kid
in me, I would be rooting for the Baltimore Oriols

(56:46):
if they ended up getting back to the World Series.

Speaker 4 (56:49):
Good stuff. And Ryan, I didn't really think about Arizona,
but you know they lost the Steelers in two thousand
and nine in the Super Bowl, they lost. The Diamondbacks
lost to the Rangers years ago. Right, so some tough,
tough close calls in Arizona.

Speaker 3 (57:05):
Just the one championship, Wyatt, two thousand and one, They'll
never forget it. In Arizona, the Diamondbacks upset the Mighty
Yankees Mario and Or Rivera on the mound, Luis Gonzalez
with the kind of broken bat blooper up the middle
in all time great pitching staff led at the top
by Kurt Shilling and Randy Johnson. Yeah, that is the
one championship. As you mentioned, the Cardinals of suns have
been close but not gotten over the hump. And then yeah,

(57:27):
in twenty twenty three that the Diamondbacks right there lost
to the Texas Rangers a couple of years back.

Speaker 4 (57:32):
All right, last question this is from me, producer Wyatt,
And since we're just almost through Week eleven in the
NFL season, who are your guys' picks to win the
AFC and the NFC and ultimately the Super Bowl?

Speaker 2 (57:48):
Right?

Speaker 1 (57:49):
Now, all right, So if I'm picking with my heart,
I'm going to support something that Tom Telesco said is
I'm still keeping my eye on the Baltimore Ravens come
out from the outside. But if I'm picking a little
bit more with my head, I'm going to go Denver Broncos. Here.
I think they've played exceptionally well. They've they've learned how
to win ugly, but they've also beaten both teams that

(58:11):
played in the Super Bowl last year, the Kansas City
Chiefs and the Philadelphia Eagles, which I think is pretty noteworthy.
I think they have probably what is going to be
a Hall of Fame coach at the helm. Their defense
has been exceptional, and I think they've got a kind
of cardiac albeit young, but a cardiac QB who just
seems to get better as the game goes along. Hasn't
put up gaudy stats, but his second half closing stats

(58:33):
have been exceptional. So I'm going to go with the
Broncos and with the Philadelphia Eagles. Watching what they did
last night. Our last two games really against Green Bay
and Detroit, two teams that have really really explosive, dynamic offenses,
their defense really just shut them down. Their offense hasn't
clicked on all cylinders, their defense seems to be dominant
right now, and we do know that they have a

(58:54):
lot of championship experience on that team. I think they've
got one of the best gms of all sports and
Howie Roseman Nick Yeary, and he's done a great job
at the helm there. I think they have what it
takes to get back. And I'm going to take those
two teams showing facing off in the Super Bowl this year.

Speaker 3 (59:10):
So Thad we're in agreement on one of the two.
In the NFC, I'm going to go with the Philadelphia
Eagles as well. I know it's probably an obvious pick
given that they're defending Super Bowl champions and how they
played so far this year. You mentioned the two recent wins.
I also think that damn Tush push is so unstoppable.
I don't love watching it as a fan, but it
seems like anytime they get in a short yarded situation,
third down, fourth down, they line up in that thing

(59:32):
with the bruising quarterback in Jalen Hurts and just overpowered
the offense. It's almost like an automatic first down. So
I think that's a huge advantage for them, But you
mentioned the front office, the job they've done coaching, they're
really the whole package, probably the gold standard right now,
at least in the short term in the NFL, in
the AFC. That I'm going to go with what might
be a bit of a more emotional pick, but my

(59:52):
new England Patriots. You know, it's been a rocky ride
since Tom Brady left, Bill Belichick Robert Craft, the owner,
infamously kind of at each other's throats, sparring publicly. It
was a messy divorce there. Bringing Gerrod Mayo, the love
former player for a year, it does not work out well.
They let him go after a year, a lot of
controversy and that since then last year so probably less

(01:00:14):
than a calendar year, they hire Mike Rabel, who I
thought was one of the best coaches in the league
in Tennessee and then especially a quarterback at Drake may
amatarhel So I watched him play a lot at the
University of North Carolina. About what he's done that he's
right up there on the short list of nv HE
front runners. In a recent development which is pretty neat
to I'm sure college football fan, especially Ohio State fans
remember what Trayvon Henderson did. I wasn't playing as much

(01:00:37):
early in the year for the Patriots. I started to
get the ball a lot now that he looks like
the guy who was dominant at Ohio State.

Speaker 2 (01:00:42):
So I'm going to go with the Eagles Patriots. You know, I'm.

Speaker 3 (01:00:47):
Nervous with security at the event if that is the
super Bowl between those two fan bases, if it's my
maniac friends from Boston and the people from Philadelphia.

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
But I'm going to go Eagles Patriots.

Speaker 3 (01:00:56):
I'll reserve the right to pick a winner later at
that but I think it's gonna be a Northeast heavy
super Bowl if the Patriots can continue their momentum.

Speaker 1 (01:01:04):
You know, Ryan, just a quick thought is, if we
were asked this by Why four weeks ago, I think
you would have heard a lot of support for the
Chiefs and the Bills, maybe even the Ravens a little
bit before they went on their initial slide. It's amazing
how the times have changed. And we'll revisit this in
maybe three to four weeks. Our minds may have changed

(01:01:25):
at that point too, but the season has really taken
on a different complexion than anybody had projected it at
the outset of the season and.

Speaker 3 (01:01:33):
I know what we're going to do Fad when we
see who's in the super Bowl. So yeah, we talked
about that in the previous episode. You can't find it anywhere.
You just have to take our word for it that
Ryan McDon and Thad Levine knew who the two super
Bowl finalists we're going to be for our producer, Wyatt
fur Thad Levine. Tune in next week, folks, we have
a very special episode. We got your feedback the listeners,
and we picked the best of the best on Rosters

(01:01:54):
to Rings, we have about thirty episodes are still recorded.
Now we're going to take out the very best segments,
edit them together our producer. Why it's not going to
eat Thanksgiving dinner or have any alcoholic beverages. You's gonna
be editing all day and night. Get these segments to
you the listeners. So tune in next week and every
week right here.

Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
On Rosters to Rings.

Speaker 1 (01:02:15):
Please join me host bad Levine, Ryan McDonough and other
general managers every week for Roster Syrings on Apple, Spotify,
or wherever you get your podcasts.